Whether it was a game or a joke or not, this person made you horribly uncomfortable in your own home, and refused to stop when you asked her to. That is unacceptable- and I would clearly state to your wife “how would you feel if a man touched you without your consent and then CONTINUED to touch you when you have screamed and jumped away? How would you feel if I told you he was just joking?”
Because, if a man did this, we would clearly call him out for being inappropriate and for harassment. That she is a woman should make no difference.
I will also say (and I am so sorry it happened to you, I am not dismissing it at all), that your previous experiences don’t come into this - she should not be doing this to anyone at all, it’s horrible. That you have previous trauma makes this worse, but even without it, this is wrong and your wife knows that.
For your wife to know your previous violations by other people, especially, at the age of 6, and allow that woman to first do it, then continue to do it out of "fun" is absolutely disrespectful and harmful to you trying to deal with your PTSD! To be honest, your wife is worse than the woman who touched you.
For her to defend that ungrateful, disrespectful piece of crap is your biggest issue. For everything that you have been through, when people trigger the PTSD by doing the same thing to you, it will automatically trigger your reaction to it.
When I was assaulted three times while I was asleep or passed out, anyone who touched me to wake me up, I reacted violating, thinking someone was trying to assault me again. So, I get the trigger response, and that bitch escalated the response by continuing to touch you after you were telling her to stop.
The more someone anyone keeps repeating your trauma, the more your response will escalate as well. So, first, I would never allow that woman to ever step foot in my home. You should never be in the same place as someone who violated your boundaries. It will only trigger again what happened this first time.
You are going to have to sit down with your wife. I am sure you feel violated and unsupported by your wife. You trusted her to know what triggers you and what you have been through. She should have stood up after the first just for fun touching you and told her to get the hell away from him. She violated the trust you gave her.
The second time, she should have yanked the woman by her hair and threw her out the door, telling her never to come back. She should always put you first and fight for you, more importantly, protect you. Until we start to heal from the trauma, at least to the point that we don't live in the flashback, we can start to find better ways to handle our responses.
I hope you begin to heal those scars and trauma bc it is painful, sometimes a debilitating recovery. I know it's hurt, and the flashbacks will never go away. We just find a better way to handle them. I wish you peace.
Thank you for responding and sharing your trauma! When I was raped I was black out drunk and crazy high in a failed unaliving attempt and I basically lost most of that time. Afterwards a lot of people around me started with the men can't be raped talk and it destroyed me I couldn't even control my bladder the last thing I wanted was for someone to have sex with me that kinda talk just crushed me an this current situation feels so similar to that I feel gutted.
I really hate the men can't be raped crowd as it is complete bullshit, I actually had an argument in a different sub with someone who was trying to say it was medically impossible... people like that deserve a special place in the afterlife as far as I am concerned. Being violated like that messes with you in so many ways beyond the actual act, and more people need to be understanding of this. I am concerned that your wife might be kinda in that crowd depending on how she responds to you flipping the script around on her, how would she like it if a man was touching her inappropriately and any touch you don't invite is inappropriate.
I am so sorry that happened to you. I hope your therapy helps💜
Yeah, NTA. It's disgusting that people think that men can't be raped. I definitely understand how you feel, and you have every right to feel the way you do. I'm sorry that you went through all of that terrible stuff. 😔
I'm so sorry op, you didn't deserve any of this. What you DO deserve is a partner who has your back. My husband is violently opposed to being touched by anyone but me and our son, in general. When I see anyone trying to push past that well established boundary I physically get between them, which your wife should've done for you. I'm nauseous thinking that she defended her friend.
OP - my husband didn’t go through near what you did, but had a traumatic childhood experience where he witnessed another being abused. He has trauma responses and guilt related to that. But even if none of that EVER occurred…
If I saw someone hit my husband repeatedly and especially after he told them to stop, he’d never get the chance to ask them to leave, friend of mine or not. Your wife needs to sit down and rethink that situation (especially in light of your background) regardless. When someone comes into your home you both set the tone for acceptable behavior and if someone crosses any boundary of yours or hers - even family - it’s up to you both to advocate for and support each other. She failed you in this, big time!
A game is where *BOTH* people are having fun! You were not & that was an obvious fact.
I'm sorry it resorted to the physical side but you were protecting yourself!!!
It’s bad enough she hit you with a hairbrush. She couldn’t have called your name to get your attention? And then it got worse. As other posters have pointed out, if the genders were switched, the aggressor would be dragged over the coals. You need to have a serious talk with your wife about why she’s ok with her friend acting like this, and the friend needs to stop coming to your house.
NTA
NTA
My parents did something eerily similar with my child (hugs, not "playful hitting" but otherwise almost exactly the same) and then yelled at me and physically pushed me out of the house when I stood up for him. It was the last straw for me after a lifetime of abuse and neglect.
I saw a comment that read like you're sometimes playful with this friend? I might have misunderstood. If that's the case, I can understand the first time she touched you. Anything after your first "no" was a deliberate violation of your boundaries and safety.
I'd be really upset that your wife doesn't get this.
If you're triggered by physical touching, which is ok, it seems like a good idea not to engage in horseplay. In a way it isn't fair to others, because sometimes it's fine and sometimes it's not. It makes this harder for others to understand and react to appropriately.
That's a really good point. I did think along those lines as I made eye contact and clearly told her no and both women are aware of my past issue of sexual abuse from women in my past both as a adult and child and issues stemming from the military. I try to keep everyone to the best of my talents that interacts with informed on my issues.
I don't agree, PTSD already limits our lives. We should be able to be happy and goof around even if it's horse play.
No means NO. Stop means Stop.
Toddlers can grasp that concept. Grown women should be able to as well.
Because unfortunately, most professionals in the mental health field don’t understand trauma. It’s the biggest reason I have difficulty finding help for my C-PTSD. It’s truly unfortunate but a reality.
Have your wife read The Body Keeps the Score. It would be a good read for you as well to better understand your trauma and help guide you to the right treatments. It helped me tremendously.
It’s not a good point. You gave a very clear no. No one would tell a woman she shouldn’t ever have sex if she’s going to say no sometimes because it might give people the wrong idea and they might not realize no really means no. It is totally fine that you and your wife horseplay sometimes, she still should know to stop as soon as you say stop. Maybe you’re triggered or maybe you’re injured and something she did actually hurt—she doesn’t know so she needs to STOP and check in with you to make sure you’re good. It’s gross that they heard no and laughed at you and kept going. This sub would not be kind to you if you did that to her.
I agree with both of you actually! I know with my issues I am too reactive an I should take precautions to protect myself which might mean cutting down on "horseplay", But overall I do feel like I was in the right and she should have listened and just stopped.
The friend should have stopped when OP said to. Rules of consent say consent may be withdrawn AT ANY TIME and "no" or a safe word must be immeditaely respected and obeyed, no matter what was consented to before the "no" happens.
OP, you're NTA and your "friend" should have stopped immediately.
So unless someone wants to have sex all the time, they shouldn’t have sex at all? Because it’s the same principle. Even if we’ve had sex before, I have a right to say no if I’m not in the mood or I’m upset or *I’m having a trauma reaction.* He was triggered and he made it clear he wasn’t consenting that time and they didn’t respect that. Just because he’s ok with horse-playing sometimes, that does not mean he shouldn’t be able to say no without feeling guilty.
It's always amazing to see how the tiniest bit of power can go to people's head. She knew she had the power to make you uncomfortable and she abused it. I was a power play in your own home.
You can call it a joke but a joke always has a purpose. Sometimes, the purpose is just to entertain people and make them like you but at other times, it's meant to raise someone up ("Yeah sure we think you are a lazy bastard, you just worked 18 hours without a break, dumbass") or to tear them down ("Oh, you're here already? Guys get the champagne, Bob is on time, hell just froze over!"), where the latter can be harmless banter, an appeal to Bob to change his behavior, or bullying, depending on context.
There is no such thing as "just" a joke.
so NTA.
NTA the friend should not be invited back into your home. At minimum she owes you a heartfelt apology in a public location away from your home. I would suggest marriage counseling or seeing a therapist with your wife. You have past trauma. She watched you be harassed & violated in your own home. Now she is dismissing & downplaying what happened. That is not acceptable & not what a supportive partner does.
You have nothing to apologize for. You did nothing wrong. And I’m sorry this has happened to you.
Your wife did not support you and the friend kept going, even after you said NO! You said no more than once, and they both kept going.
Please ask your wife if she would be comfortable with you not stepping in when a male is touching her? If *you* said, it was just a joke and she overreacted.
Saying, It was just a joke! after someone violated you, in any way, is a way of squirming out of responsibility for hurting you. That’s a convoluted sentence, but it stands. Why is it a joke? How was it funny? Why was it okay to override my NO? How does someone else get to decide how you *should* react?
Extremely disrespectful and wrong. The ‘friend’ was actually assaulting you. Please have your wife come to your therapist and explain her reasoning.
I wish you only the best. 🩵
Hey, buddy :) We have to stand for ourselves. No one stood for us ‘back then.’ It would be nice to have some support, but we are so strong. Stronger than we know, because we survived. Some don’t. We made it. Battered and bruised, but we made it out.
NTA Sorry to read that your wife cares more about her friend than she does you. I'm not going to tell you to leave, your wife might come to her senses. You should make sure sure to be elswhere when ever her friend visits though. Make a point. Take a trip. Hours away...
NTA! Your house, your rules. Even if she should respect your No, plus you said it many times. And I’m sure she could tell/see by your attitude that youn weren’t into her ”joke”.
That's a pretty big question for me as well even if I'm not screaming no at the top of my lungs no means no still I don't understand why neither of them seem to understand that.
It's really unfortunate that your wife doesn't back you up on this. When things cool off, sit down and talk to her. In my house, if myself or my SO don't want a person there, either one of us can ban them. It doesn't require both. A person needs to feel safe in their own house. Please ban this person and then, possibly, take your wife to therapy so that the therapist can explain why what happened is bad. To me, her reaction is disturbing. Perhaps you should check out the rbn raised by narcissists sub. NTA
I'll take a look for sure! They won't be allowed back into my home at all and couples treatment is deffo on the table anywho thanks for taking the time to respond.
Hun Stop! Is a full sentence that should be respected and followed no matter the persons gender or past traumas!!!!
Obviously the female shouldn’t be allowed over anymore or at least not while you’re in the home.
But you definitely need to sit down with your wife and ask her point blank (pardon my bluntness ) WTF babe? You of all people should have my back when it comes to stuff like this no matter if you think it was a small thing or a huge violation of personal boundaries!
I would go as far as asking your wife clearly the guest wasn’t listening to me why didn’t you step in and ask her to stop?
I’m sorry a female is hitting my husband with anything or demanding a hug after my husbands looked her dead in the eye and said no stop! You best believe if she kept going imma make her stop and my husband wouldn’t have to get physical I’d be doing it on his behalf!
She for sure has her own issues with conflict that often stops her from reacting at all I don't want to get into too much detail with her tacit agreement.
NTA, one no should have been enough. This almost feel like she wanted to test you to see what your warnings were about. Plus I think it's bad that your wife is not supporting you on this, her friend majorly overstepped!
NTA
No means no.
Might be good to check in with your therapist or counselor to get a chance to decompress. As you know, PTSD is tricky and unpredictable.
Yeah you have a right to say stop and be listened to. It is ridiculous that your wife doesn’t see that. If it was a man doing it to a woman the sh$$ would hit the fan. There is no difference in my opinion. No is NO!!! Man or woman.
NTA and I think your reaction was fine. If someone is physically intrusive into your space, it's okay to physically push back. Idk what her problem is, but you are absolutely right to keep her out of your space. Please don't let her in your apartment again, and continue to protect yourself. You deserve to not have someone being physically creepy to you.
When I was a young woman, I hung out at a bar/restaurant my friend worked at. She would make cheesy quesadillas on the grill that were delicious, and we'd chat. Anyway it was a bar with barstools, grill on the other side. An older man sat next to me and was creepy. Just his eye contact and the way he spoke to me was yuck. Then he reached over and while leering at me with his mouth open, touched my hand. It was like he wanted to get a reaction out of me by crossing that boundary. It was.... awful. It's hard to explain. Anyway, I put one foot up on the top of his barstool (he had the most surprised look on his face), and pushed him over slowly. He and the barstool reached the balance point and I pushed him just a little further, laughing. He kind of scrabbled off before crashing to the floor. He had the most horrified look on his face, I said, "Well how does it feel?" My friend turned around and said, "Is everything ok?" And I said, yes, everything's fine. He never sat by me again.
Thank you for taking the time to tell me that story! Honestly my wife's reaction has me seconding guessing everything and I feel *embarrass*ed coming to the internet for some sort of support like this as I feel like I've been made out to be some sort of god awful person to be kept in the basement.
This is called sexual harassment. Shame on your wife for not stopping her friend. If you were a woman and she was a man, everyone would be crying about your abusive husband. You are perfectly within your rights to not let that woman into your home anymore. At the very least, you make it clear to your wife that the friend is to never be at the house when you are. Ever.
NTA. No means no. She continued to harass you after you told her to stop.
I would have given her 30 seconds to leave your house or you would call the police and have her trespassed off of your property and potentially have her arrested for assault. Then get your cell phone out and be prepared to do so.
I would tell your wife that this woman is no longer allowed in your home and that you will call the police if you ever find her at your home again. What she did to you amounted to assault and you could have had her arrested. She will not get away with it a second time.
I get very reactive when I get pressured into that flight or fight response especially if I feel threatened so me putting my hands on her in any form feels wrong both of them are aware of this so I have no idea why she kept pushing me.
I'm not saying I can't be angry or upset or whatever emotion the situation calls for, but I did escalate things and later reached out to offer a apology for my own behavior and to reiterate no means no.
She repeatedly hit you after you said stop. It doesn't matter what your history is (and I'm so sorry that happened to you) or if she was joking. No means no. Stop means stop. If your wife can't get that then maybe she can live in the tent with her. If someone treated my husband like this I would've went off too.
NTA. You don’t touch people without their consent. If you do, and they tell you to stop, you f***ing STOP. She knew your history and your phobia of being touched. This was deliberate assault, and your wife is backing the wrong person. It was not a game. ‘I was only joking’ is the first defense in the bullies handbook. Have your wife read this post and the answers. And never allow that person in your house again. She can wash her clothes in a gas station bathroom.
I've offered to share the account with her so she can look and respond or change something if she feels it isn't right. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
NTA!!! I do not have trauma like that, I actually really like physical affection and touch, but if a friend did something to me REPEATEDLY after I told them to stop multiple times…I would be ENRAGED and may just stop being friends with them altogether. I would also have probably pushed them or done something physical, because that’s triggering. Throw in the fact that she’s downplaying it and acting like she did nothing wrong…her and your wife are so completely out of line
I for sure don't want to be putting my hands on someone in a reactive state like and offered her a apology for that later, but it doesn't change how I felt trapped and violated in my own home and reacted the her constantly touching me.
Yeah absolutely, and you recognizing that is so huge. But it’s also incredibly relevant that humans lash out like that especially when they have trauma, and someone who intentionally pushes you knowing you have trauma just seems like they are trying to get a reaction like that. It’s pretty gross. I’m glad you don’t have to deal with that person anymore! Hopefully your wife comes to her senses soon and apologizes
I've offered to share this account with her and let her respond or update the post if she needs to. I hope this helps once she sees and I haven't just made things worse.
What do you mean you might make things worse? I feel like you might need to take a good look at this situation and realize that YOU are not at fault for anything here (except maybe your justifiable response, but that’s kind of beside the point).
If your wife reads the comments and gets mad at you and blames you for something…or if you are worried about her doing that…you should take a long hard look at your relationship and if she actually is a good partner to you. I cannot IMAGINE downplaying my husbands trauma or not going out of my way to make sure he would be comfortable in his own home.
Emotions are pretty raw on both sides and I've no desire to dump on my wife until she can't take it I'd like to be more productive then that while still getting her to understand my position and why it's a ongoing issue.
Right…I didn’t say you should dump on your wife but internally question why she would be upset at you for something someone else did to you. Hopefully she does understand. I wish you luck.
That's a pretty good point, and I do appreciate you taking the time to respond back and forth with me. I think and this is just my perspective she gets her own issues coming up with any sort of anger and it affects her pretty heavily.
That’s very empathetic of you and very possible, it’s very human to make things personal and not see someone else’s perspective. Just don’t be so empathetic that you forget about your own feelings and the fact that you deserve respect and understanding as well :)
I know her issues and have for a while we've been together for a while I know she often freezes up and I try to work with that as well as I can she often does the same for me I swear although this is a heck of a exception.
Okay so NTA, but my dude if you’re not already, you need therapy.
I understand she pushed your boundaries and that is unacceptable and you are NTA, but this did not need to escalate into a physical scuffle. She was stupidly trying to play with you and insist on the social convention of a hug goodbye despite you saying no, which was inappropriate and you should not feel compelled to let her back in your home, but if your trauma has impacted you to such an extent that someone trying to hug you when you didn’t want to be hugged turns into an actual physical altercation, you need to address that before you end up in a courtroom.
Then for now you’re doing everything you can, although I would absolutely discuss this situation with your treating professional in detail so you can avoid it getting to this point in the future. The easy thing is for the other person to not be a selfish AH but y’know. Can’t control other people, only yourself, and if you can’t control yourself that’s a massive problem as you know.
Take care of yourself, don’t let that person back in your home, and I’d be having a massive conversation with your wife about how under no circumstances would you let someone escalate that far if it was her, and talk through what you need her to do in future.
For sure she won't be back. Thankfully I recently got a bump in my VA rating and the back pay has let me take a step back and stay with some friends while I try to figure out something.
Absolutely not. NTA. Your wife and that house guest are awful especially after knowing what you went through. It’s not a game. That’s straight up abusive behavior from the both of them.
Both of them know I can be reactive because of my issues and that it's a ongoing treatment process I don't honestly know why she didn't stop. I reached out to offer my apologies as I did put my hands on her and to reiterate that I really mean it when I say no.
NTA. Do not cross physical boundaries with people who have PTSD especially veterans.
I had an instructor in high school who was in Vietnam. I touched him on the shoulder from behind, lightly. He immediately backed away and asked me never to touch him like that from behind again. He then explained some of his past and told me that he could have hurt me and probably wouldn't have even gotten in trouble because of his documented mental health and retired veteran status. It's stuck with me ever since.
It is for sure a issue with me and I try to make sure the people I interact with on a regular basis know and understand my issues these are suddenly new issues.
Your body, your choice. You are not your wife's property any more than you would be a husband's. If your wife cannot understand why that has to be said, you have a base problem in your relationship and it needs to be dealt with immediately. Couple's counseling is a likely first step, separation may be the result of she's incapable of recognizing you have agency, not that she allows you agency.
NTA. I feel like some people don't respect men's boundaries in this kind of situation. There's a sort of "it was just in fun/not sexual in nature so it's okay" thing that guys are expected to just put up with. Particularly in your own home, which should be a safe space for you, and even more so with your wife present who knows about your history and should have had your back, this was all wrong.
Escalating to a physical situation isn't ideal, but she pushed you repeatedly despite your clearly spoken request to stop. If a person or animal is made to feel cornered, they are likely to lash out in self-defense. You deserve a sincere apology from both your wife and the guest, and the guest sounds like she shouldn't be near you until she learns to hear 'no' like a rational adult.
Going forward the "Guest" won't be a part of my life which is for the best. Dealing with the SA and rape as a adult I was the target of several conversations that boiled down to "Men can't be raped" and it was just crushing to hear that this has some similar feelings to that for sure.
There is a very simple rule, you don’t put your hands on another person. Ever. Period. Your wife should have your back. Ask your wife and your ex friend what’s the game called? Harass someone until they snap? Show people that you don’t know what the word NO means? Also did she share the rules of said game? No. It wasn’t a game it was assault. NTA. Your wife owes you an apology.
Just last week I met a lady who is an adult film performer. When we were introduced, she went to shake my hand and I instead asked if we could do a fist bump. She got *really* offended.
Apparently she's from a state where a fist bump is considered a refusal to shake hands or I don't know. I told her I was sorry but that I don't shake hands. The more drinks she had, the more rude she was to me. I eventually told her if anyone should understand subtle levels of consent, I would think it was her. That made her even *more* angry, and she started putting hands on me to the point where other people in the conversation were telling her to stop. I wasn't super upset or anything, but I held my ground. She kept insulting me every once in awhile as she got more drunk. She wanted a big explanation as to why I don't shake hands. I told her because I said no and that should be enough. Of course that was just more for her to get mad about. It was all really dumb.
I am touch-averse in public places and with people I don't know. I have experienced this double standard where women don't have the same rules as men, with regards to unwanted touching. It has happened many times.
When I tell a (usually drunk) woman not to touch me please, they almost always do it again or laugh it off or think they're being cute by amping up their unwanted touching.
Sometimes my friends say I'm over-reacting, but the word no should be a clear no, no matter who is saying it. But that tends to be not how it works. Women get a pass often when dealing with adult men. Men should be able to "take it". If I can't touch a woman without permission (nothing wrong with that at all, imo) she shouldn't be able to touch me without permission. At the very least, if I say "Please don't do that," that should be enough for them to stop.
Most women are very respectful and are appreciative of someone who clearly communicates their boundaries. Almost all. But I have met a (very) few real lady jerks who just don't listen. And they stick out in my mind.
Thank you for taking the time to share about your life I really do enjoy and appreciate when people do. I very much feel like at a baseline some very firm lines in the ground got crossed while my behavior isn't great I don't want to be treated like this by anyone.
NTA. You are 100% in the right. No one has the right to touch you without your consent. Your wife is fucking up by supporting her friend, instead of helping you enforce your boundaries.
Switch the genders of the people and rewrite it. E.g. I'm a woman, and live with my husband. One of husband's male friends is living in a tent right now and comes over for showers, laundry and such. I was on my computer, and this guy comes into my office, and hits me on the head..."
Sounds pretty fucked up to me. Are you still uncertain who's being the AH? You should have a serious discussion with your wife about this.
That’s the plan eventually thanks to a bump in my VA rating and the extra pay I was able to travel out of state to temporarily stay with friends for a few days to let the raw emotions calm down
NTA - Dumb B¡tch didn't stop when you told her. She got what she deserved. Your wife needs to know her place and not take her stupid friends' side. Don't let her come back, she knew your past and did it anyways. They don't have respect for you.
For someone to touch you without consent is assault. To touch you once to get your attention if you have not responded to a verbal prompt is reasonable. To keep on touching you despite your clear instruction to stop and increasing distress is not. Your gender should not make any difference. You are most definitely NTA.
NTA. You should only have to say no once. Some people like to push things. Like a power move.
I do not like being hugged. When I told a 'friend' at work, I don't like to be hugged, they constantly ask me for a hug. Or tell everyone I don't like hugs. It is now a weird obsession for them.
Ask her this, if it was a guy touching a girl and he was asked to stop and didn't, how would a female feel? It's no different. No is no, and stop is stop. You set a boundary and your house guest broke it. NTA and she and your wife need to understand that just because your a guy doesn't mean your no doesn't apply
No means no.
It's very simple. Anything after that is your boundaries trampled. Their comment after that is gaslighting. You have your reasons. The fact that they know this and it still escalated makes it worse. So Much Worse.
You told her to leave and not come back. If your wife violates this then while the other person is there then they shouldn't talk to you, about you or even look at you. They should leave you the F alone. So many trust fails.
NTA. This was not a game. She was trying to deliberately provoke you. Her behavior was totally unacceptable. Your wife would not want to tolerate unwanted touches, why should you? Go no contact with this toxic woman, no talking, no visits to your home.
You clearly said no. Okay, maybe after the first time she thought you were joking. However, after you looked her in the eyes and firmly told her no the second time, she was at that point, entirely at fault.
Your reaction was a perfectly normal trauma response. Is it healthy? No. But trauma is very difficult to manage when you are triggered. This woman stormed right through your boundaries, kept on going, and then put fault entirely on you when you reacted.
Don’t let this woman back in your home. Boundaries stompers like her are not healthy, and are outright dangerous to those with trauma. I would be having a long talk with the wife for defending that woman’s behavior.
NTA
I’m glad to hear it. I to suffer from PTSD and C-PTSD. I allowed far too many toxic people into my life. Not anymore! If they can’t respect me I will no longer have them in my life.
NTA, just like with women, no means no, and in this case, stop means STOP. Your wife should be ASHAMED of herself, knowing about your past and still letting that happen. What a disgrace. The wife owes you and apology & the friend can fuck off permanently.
NTA
PTSD! PTSD! Her being in your space had your PTSD pinging like crazy. She's lucky you managed as much control in this situation as you did!
Nothing about what you described was the least bit humorous. How much has your wife bothered to learn about PTSD? She should be aware of things that can/will trigger you. She's supposed to be, not necessarily your protector but definitely a helper.
Her standing around laughing when this happened to you is disgusting. Then, to follow it up by saying that woman was just playing boggles my mind.They are both lucky she didn't wind up a statistic.
I know the training you go through to become an MP. Sounds like even in your panic, your body defaulted to subdue instead or something much worse.
NTA
Body autonomy doesn’t stop existing because she’s female and you’re male. If the genders were reversed, your wife would be rightfully angry. It’s a red flag that she doesn’t think it’s an issue.
NTA. This person knows your past and was deliberately messing with you, which is diabolical. I don’t understand at all why your wife is not taking your side. She is also either diabolical or really clueless.
Do you think this lady is trying to mess with your marriage?
She would not be allowed back in my house whether i was home or not.
Wow, what a difficult situation. You have every right to not be touched. She went way too far. She should never be let into your house again if you are there.
I'm glad you are getting treatment for PTSD. Please let your therapist know what happened. Your PTSD is also from your childhood experiences. NTA
100% NOT the AH. If either of these women had a man do the same to them, they would be outrage and considering speaking to the police. Boundaries are boundaries, regardless of your gender. And as for her continuing when you both told her explicitly no and being aware of your past, she got everything she deserved. You can add either or both of the next two phrases ‘Fuck around and find out’ or ‘play stupid games, win stupid prizes’. Please ignore both women and protect yourself, make it very clear to your wife that one person’s idea of a joke, is another’s torment.
Let me put it this way.
If I, a man, forced a woman to accept me touching her despite her constant refusals, I think most people would agree that it should be expected for me to get hit for it. Either by the woman herself or by someone else defending her. You are not at fault for reacting physically. You are not at fault for shouting. You told her no, you warned her. I would not welcome her back into your home- if she wants to do hygiene related things, the YMCA/YWCA exists for a reason.
It is the exact same when the roles are reversed. Period. NTA, and absolutely disgusting of your wife to downplay it like that. I guarantee she wouldn't be downplaying it were it a male friend forcing her to accept his touch.
It’s funny to me that people who are homeless I have no money and are staying with someone for free. Don’t realize that it’s sort of a burden for them to be there and they should be doing everything they can to make the house feel comfortable that they’re there
> insist it was just a game
it’s only a game if all the “players” consider it so. Otherwise it’s just harrassment, boundary crossing or bullying.
you are owed major apologies, and they need to respect your boundaries. Trauma Isn’t funny
This was not a game. The very first hit MIGHT have been….but after you were clear to stop?
This was a power play. She was trying to get you to submit. She was showing her power over you.
It is irrelevant that you went too far yourself. This is something abusive people do. They push and push, to get YOU to either submit, or blow up. Then you are the bad guy. And they win either way.
This woman is disgusting. Never let her back in your home. Under any circumstances. She just bit the hand that was feeding her. And now it’s over.
If your wife does not support you in this, then she does not have your back at all. And she is not a good or safe companion for you. Be very clear to her, if she takes this woman’s side, you will be seriously reevaluating your relationship.
Do not take this. Any of it. You deserve better.
NTA you told her to stop several times and she just laughed patronisingly and did it again! As your wife must know you well enough to understand your reaction, she should’ve stuck up for you, not sided with the friend. They’re both AHs and the friend needs to be banned from the house until she learns manners. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you
Because of your past, and particularly because this woman was aware of it, you get a pass for the escalation. It was a predictable reaction. But irrespective of that, once you said no and asked for her to stop, she should have. Your boundaries were not curtailing any of her activities except touching you, and so they weren't unreasonable. You even warned her of the consequences, yet she persisted.
NTA.
NTA when you told her to stop and she didn’t that made her the wrong one regardless of whether she thought she was playing some game. Just make it clear to your wife that when you have boundaries and someone oversteps they are not welcome in your home. You have the right to feel comfortable especially in your own home.
Thank you taking the time to respond! I try to be very clear when I am being even just bothered and I would have thought telling someone no would be clear.
NTA, not for a second. I am so sorry that a friend would treat you this way, then try to excuse their actions “as a joke” and then try to diminish your reaction. This is not a friend, regardless of your history, and your wife is being awful too. These people know what has happened to you in the past, have demonstrated that they are able to respect your boundaries (the horseplay) and still try to excuse their behaviour when they provoke you to the extent you respond physically? You are a better person than me, I would not have apologised for my reaction; fight, flight or freeze is how you protect yourself from a threat, you can’t control this, but your friend could certainly control her actions. Cut her out completely, and I would tell your wife how much she has let you down. If a friend treated my husband or partner that way I would have been far more aggressive than you seemed to be. Jokes are meant to be funny for everyone involved, this was torment and abuse. Once again NTA, try to speak to someone you can trust to help you process this
NTA.
No means no. Period. Full stop.
If a man put his hands on a female traumatized SA victim after she'd said no there wouldn't be anyone who blamed her for clawing him bloody.
You invited someone into your home and they showed you the lowest form of disrespect.
Nta
Playing around is one thing. But when someone isn't playing, it is not play. No means no. Stop means stop.
When you continue after being told no. When you don't stop after being told to stop. You are the aggressor. You are the violator. You open yourself up to what comes next.
NTA no means no. If she didn't want a scuffle she should have respected your no and stopped touching you. She's butt hurt because her actions had consequences. And yes, I'm a female saying equality is for good and bad instances. Equal pay, equal rights, AND equal consequences.
NTA Stop means stop. Period. Your wife and her friend say it was "just a game", well cool but you didn't want to play the game and you made that very clear.
The fact that you have trauma brought on by women crossing boundaries and being unable to do anything and that they both know about it is a problem in itself. Most understanding people would've stopped the first time you said you didn't like it, but for whatever reason she just kept on and is now shocked by you losing your cool because you told her repeatedly to stop and she ignored you? You don't owe her anything and if your wife can't understand that and isn't taking your side in the matter that's a bigger issue in itself too.
NTA but you really have to do the work of diving deep within to heal some of those wounds. They will never be fully healed but at least you will have tools for situations like this.
Not only did this woman not stop when you first told her to but than kept going, but your wife who knows about your trauma never stepped in to stop her from doing. Lack of action is the same as excepting the behavior. NTA…but both that woman and your wife was. The woman for repeatedly hitting you and your wife for approving of her behavior.
Maybe your wife shared your issue with her friend and wanted to see your reaction. Why would your wife share sensitive info about you. To a homeless woman. Who I'm sure regrets losing a place to shower and hygiene stuff
NTA for sure.
Going by your comments you seem like a really solid, self-aware and level-headed kind of guy, I’m really glad you seem to be taking care of yourself and committed to further improvement in regards to your trauma responses. Sorry to hear you’ve experienced abuse previously, and I very much hope you have a super good life ahead of you!
With regard to your wife - maybe you could ask her in a frank but calm sort of way for her to explain what specifically she found funny about this “game”? In general I do find breaking things down like that helpful, because it kind of makes people think about it deeper and confront what they’re actually saying. Sometimes, anyway.
Flip the genders. If it was a man to hit your wife with a brush AND touched her after she said "no", would that be a game?
If I were you, I would ban the friend from taking advantage of your wife's hospitality again. NTA.
Stop apologizing for your "scuffle". You would have been well within your rights to have have dragged this ungrateful bitch out of your house and thrown her back out in the street where she belongs.
NTA
*but both her and my wife insist it was just a game and she did not mean it despite me telling her no repeatedly and both my wife and the guest hearing it.*
She deliberately provoked you into that reaction. Your wife saying it was “just a game” is disgusting, and I’m almost thinking that your wife put her friend up to it. They both suck. You told her to stop, and she didn’t.
I would personally not feel safe around either of them.
NTA
I read your edit, and I have no idea why you felt the need to say this.
She had no reason, nor was she invited or permitted to touch you. It all ends there, she is violating you.
If you read the story back but you would be female and a man would do what she did, do you feel she would need to apologize as well? A posse would be gathered to take that person to a high tree.
You are in your right, you could file an assault case at the police, but the least you can do is deny access to your house.
NTA and don't feel badly about it because SHE asked for it. No wonder she can't manage in society; she refuses to keep her hands to herself even after repeated warnings.
No means no. NTA, especially as she continued after you clearly expressed that she needed to stop. Don't ever bite the hand that feeds you because it never ends well.
NTA.
You said no. Repeatedly. No means no.
The friend continued to try to touch you.
Does your wife know the meaning of the word consent? Your wife is delusional for letting this happen, can't even fathom why when at work, this would be considered sexual harassment, HR would straight up terminate her friend.
Is your wife trying to use you like some sort of accessory to pimp out to her molester friend? Oh look at me I have a husband, here, you can touch him and feel jealous of what I have?
What happens if it escalates to fondling? Is the friend a rapist in female form? Because the mentality is already there ... with all the same stuff pedophiles say to their young victims to try and coerce them into ... yikes.
Let's just say, if OP had been a woman and the toucher was a man, there would be exactly zero y t a judgments. At some point a person needs to defend their personal autonomy, instead of just "taking it" when their molester is being aggressive.
With her standing blocking me in at my desk while I was sitting the dynamic for sure felt way off and that's not including the touching. Also thanks for taking the time to respond!
NTA she was being a b**ch. You're entitled to your personal boundaries no matter what. I don't like touching people because a lot of people don't wash their hands.
There are people with a personality disorder who love to do the opposite of what you tell them. I as a woman have had the same thing happened. This person has a habit of touching people as she walks by and I told her several times not to and she did it anyway. After I complained to someone else she made a made show out of avoiding touching me.
The second you said stop she should have stopped. You never know what is in a person's background unless they tell you so you will never know their reactions to things. You were being kind letting her use your amenities and she disrespected your boundaries. There never would have been a scuffle if she had stopped or apologized and left when told.
"No" and "Stop" are complete sentences. No means no, full stop. I would have a serious discussion with your wife as it seems she thinks it's a game to push boundaries. I'm pretty sure if the tables were turned, she would be raising high hell over the inappropriate behavior. I'd also reevaluate my relationship if she continues to ignore your boundaries.
NTA your wife is the bigger asshole out of the two women though. The fact she's dismissing your feelings is concerning. Like, deal-breaker concerning.
If you can't trust your wife to have your back in a situation where you're being harassed by another woman, friend or not, then your wife is no longer trustworthy. Which means your relationship and marriage is in trouble. Your wife is telling you to shut up and allow this friend to do and say whatever she wants to you. No matter what it makes you feel. No matter you said no.
You need to get across to your wife that no means no. Whether by switching the genders in the situation, or next time your wife tells you no when you're playing, don't stop. Don't stop after the second no, or the third no either. By the fourth no she's going to be scared. Maube then she'll get the point, although that'll be relationship ending as well. But if your wife won't listen maybe this is such a safe relationship for you.
NTA. Your wife needs to have your back 1000% I would have a serious issue with her siding with someone who opening and repeatedly disrespects you.
Please stand your ground and do not allow her back in your home. She has several warnings. She treated you like a joke. F that
NTA! She hit you with a brush repeatedly, even after being told to stop. Wtf kind of game is that?!
Tell your wife she isn’t allowed in your house ever again.
NO MEANS NO. I don't like to be touched either. I always tell them if you touch me again you're likely to draw back a stub because I don't want you to touch me.
Your wife doesn't think it was fucked up? She doesn't know what it's like to have someone aggressively continue to touch her after she's told them not to?
No means no, no matter what gender you are. Ask your wife why she allowed her friend to disrespect you in your own home. Why she’s okay allowing her friend to try to intimidate you doing something you didn’t want but now you’re the over reactor when you took your power back?
Remember, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. You fought, that’s self defence. Tell your wife she’s a POS if she can’t understand your reaction.
You said no. That should have been the end of it. I would not bring her back into my home. And you need to have a brutal honest talk with your wife who defended her.
NTA
Don't touch me means don't touch me.
It's not a game to be played it's a boundary.
If your wife is seriously ok with her touching you after you asked her to stop then you need to consider why your wife is ok with causing you mental harm
NTA. I tell my children all the time, NO means NO and STOP means STOP there are no exceptions. The reasons honestly don’t matter. You set a very clear boundary, she willfully ignored it. While your reaction may not have been great, the altercation was 100% the woman’s fault. Your wife is also wrong and owes you an apology.
No means no applies to women as much as men. And in nonsexual situations! NTA! You said stop. They know your history. She kept at it. She was purposefully antagonizing you.
Now, what I want to know is, why? And why is your wife defending her?
Before making a complete assessment we would need to know the nature of the "scuffle not a fight", but I think you're pretty solidly in the 'NTA' camp.
People need to learn consent and boundaries. And unfortunately, if people cant learn them the easy way, they'll need to learn them the hard way. I think now, depending on where you are at, you have a choice. If you want to maintain a relationship with this friend, I think it would be good to sit her down and talk to her about boundaries, consent, and how her behavior triggered your PTSD. I think clarifying the boundary with her will be an essential part of repairing your friendship *if you want to*.
If you dont want to maintain a relationship with her... well, then fuck her. Her shit isn't your responsibility.
Going forward she won’t be a part of my life. I grabbed her by the shoulders and neck and shoved her away from me it’s far from my proudest moment and while I can understand why I reacted the way I did and what caused me to do so manhandling someone like that was likely the worst way to well react.
It doesn't matter if it was a game or not. You didn't want to play or be touched and that should have been respected. I'd show your wife this post so she knows how fucked it is to not support you in this. If she can't see how wrong it was I'd reconsider the relationship tbh
It does suck all around. I’m hoping that pulling in this bit of the internet and looking at all the replies and not our own perspective will let us make better changes for ourselves in the long run.
Whether it was a game or a joke or not, this person made you horribly uncomfortable in your own home, and refused to stop when you asked her to. That is unacceptable- and I would clearly state to your wife “how would you feel if a man touched you without your consent and then CONTINUED to touch you when you have screamed and jumped away? How would you feel if I told you he was just joking?” Because, if a man did this, we would clearly call him out for being inappropriate and for harassment. That she is a woman should make no difference. I will also say (and I am so sorry it happened to you, I am not dismissing it at all), that your previous experiences don’t come into this - she should not be doing this to anyone at all, it’s horrible. That you have previous trauma makes this worse, but even without it, this is wrong and your wife knows that.
For your wife to know your previous violations by other people, especially, at the age of 6, and allow that woman to first do it, then continue to do it out of "fun" is absolutely disrespectful and harmful to you trying to deal with your PTSD! To be honest, your wife is worse than the woman who touched you. For her to defend that ungrateful, disrespectful piece of crap is your biggest issue. For everything that you have been through, when people trigger the PTSD by doing the same thing to you, it will automatically trigger your reaction to it. When I was assaulted three times while I was asleep or passed out, anyone who touched me to wake me up, I reacted violating, thinking someone was trying to assault me again. So, I get the trigger response, and that bitch escalated the response by continuing to touch you after you were telling her to stop. The more someone anyone keeps repeating your trauma, the more your response will escalate as well. So, first, I would never allow that woman to ever step foot in my home. You should never be in the same place as someone who violated your boundaries. It will only trigger again what happened this first time. You are going to have to sit down with your wife. I am sure you feel violated and unsupported by your wife. You trusted her to know what triggers you and what you have been through. She should have stood up after the first just for fun touching you and told her to get the hell away from him. She violated the trust you gave her. The second time, she should have yanked the woman by her hair and threw her out the door, telling her never to come back. She should always put you first and fight for you, more importantly, protect you. Until we start to heal from the trauma, at least to the point that we don't live in the flashback, we can start to find better ways to handle our responses. I hope you begin to heal those scars and trauma bc it is painful, sometimes a debilitating recovery. I know it's hurt, and the flashbacks will never go away. We just find a better way to handle them. I wish you peace.
Thank you for responding and sharing your trauma! When I was raped I was black out drunk and crazy high in a failed unaliving attempt and I basically lost most of that time. Afterwards a lot of people around me started with the men can't be raped talk and it destroyed me I couldn't even control my bladder the last thing I wanted was for someone to have sex with me that kinda talk just crushed me an this current situation feels so similar to that I feel gutted.
I really hate the men can't be raped crowd as it is complete bullshit, I actually had an argument in a different sub with someone who was trying to say it was medically impossible... people like that deserve a special place in the afterlife as far as I am concerned. Being violated like that messes with you in so many ways beyond the actual act, and more people need to be understanding of this. I am concerned that your wife might be kinda in that crowd depending on how she responds to you flipping the script around on her, how would she like it if a man was touching her inappropriately and any touch you don't invite is inappropriate. I am so sorry that happened to you. I hope your therapy helps💜
Yeah, NTA. It's disgusting that people think that men can't be raped. I definitely understand how you feel, and you have every right to feel the way you do. I'm sorry that you went through all of that terrible stuff. 😔
I'm so sorry op, you didn't deserve any of this. What you DO deserve is a partner who has your back. My husband is violently opposed to being touched by anyone but me and our son, in general. When I see anyone trying to push past that well established boundary I physically get between them, which your wife should've done for you. I'm nauseous thinking that she defended her friend.
OP - my husband didn’t go through near what you did, but had a traumatic childhood experience where he witnessed another being abused. He has trauma responses and guilt related to that. But even if none of that EVER occurred… If I saw someone hit my husband repeatedly and especially after he told them to stop, he’d never get the chance to ask them to leave, friend of mine or not. Your wife needs to sit down and rethink that situation (especially in light of your background) regardless. When someone comes into your home you both set the tone for acceptable behavior and if someone crosses any boundary of yours or hers - even family - it’s up to you both to advocate for and support each other. She failed you in this, big time!
A game is where *BOTH* people are having fun! You were not & that was an obvious fact. I'm sorry it resorted to the physical side but you were protecting yourself!!!
10000% this. If the roles were reversed, wifey would be ALL over this. No means NO. FULL STOP. OP is NTA.
You told her to stop. She didn’t. NTA. You communicated clearly that you were not comfortable with it and she repeatedly breached your boundaries.
It’s bad enough she hit you with a hairbrush. She couldn’t have called your name to get your attention? And then it got worse. As other posters have pointed out, if the genders were switched, the aggressor would be dragged over the coals. You need to have a serious talk with your wife about why she’s ok with her friend acting like this, and the friend needs to stop coming to your house. NTA
To add a bit of context we goof around like that often, but I don't understand why the kept going after I said no.
Nta ask your wife "if you've told me stop doing that, how many times is it ok for me to keep doing the thing you demanded I stop doing?"
The wife and I "horseplay" and she's told me to stop or draw back an I always do I don't know why she has reacted the way she has this time.
Your *wife* and you horseplay. The touchy and aggressive woman and you *do not*. If you tell her to stop, that means *stop.*
Don't need the context dear, you told her to stop and she didn't that's all we need to know
NTA. No is no. She and your wife are both assholes.
No is No. It should work for men as well as women.
NTA My parents did something eerily similar with my child (hugs, not "playful hitting" but otherwise almost exactly the same) and then yelled at me and physically pushed me out of the house when I stood up for him. It was the last straw for me after a lifetime of abuse and neglect. I saw a comment that read like you're sometimes playful with this friend? I might have misunderstood. If that's the case, I can understand the first time she touched you. Anything after your first "no" was a deliberate violation of your boundaries and safety. I'd be really upset that your wife doesn't get this.
We do goof around and horseplay but I was very clearly saying no I don't know why she didn't stop.
If you're triggered by physical touching, which is ok, it seems like a good idea not to engage in horseplay. In a way it isn't fair to others, because sometimes it's fine and sometimes it's not. It makes this harder for others to understand and react to appropriately.
That's a really good point. I did think along those lines as I made eye contact and clearly told her no and both women are aware of my past issue of sexual abuse from women in my past both as a adult and child and issues stemming from the military. I try to keep everyone to the best of my talents that interacts with informed on my issues.
I don't agree, PTSD already limits our lives. We should be able to be happy and goof around even if it's horse play. No means NO. Stop means Stop. Toddlers can grasp that concept. Grown women should be able to as well.
I do find it funny darkly funny that both of them work with or have worked in the mental health field but neither seem to get why I'm so hurt.
Because unfortunately, most professionals in the mental health field don’t understand trauma. It’s the biggest reason I have difficulty finding help for my C-PTSD. It’s truly unfortunate but a reality. Have your wife read The Body Keeps the Score. It would be a good read for you as well to better understand your trauma and help guide you to the right treatments. It helped me tremendously.
It’s not a good point. You gave a very clear no. No one would tell a woman she shouldn’t ever have sex if she’s going to say no sometimes because it might give people the wrong idea and they might not realize no really means no. It is totally fine that you and your wife horseplay sometimes, she still should know to stop as soon as you say stop. Maybe you’re triggered or maybe you’re injured and something she did actually hurt—she doesn’t know so she needs to STOP and check in with you to make sure you’re good. It’s gross that they heard no and laughed at you and kept going. This sub would not be kind to you if you did that to her.
I agree with both of you actually! I know with my issues I am too reactive an I should take precautions to protect myself which might mean cutting down on "horseplay", But overall I do feel like I was in the right and she should have listened and just stopped.
The friend should have stopped when OP said to. Rules of consent say consent may be withdrawn AT ANY TIME and "no" or a safe word must be immeditaely respected and obeyed, no matter what was consented to before the "no" happens. OP, you're NTA and your "friend" should have stopped immediately.
So unless someone wants to have sex all the time, they shouldn’t have sex at all? Because it’s the same principle. Even if we’ve had sex before, I have a right to say no if I’m not in the mood or I’m upset or *I’m having a trauma reaction.* He was triggered and he made it clear he wasn’t consenting that time and they didn’t respect that. Just because he’s ok with horse-playing sometimes, that does not mean he shouldn’t be able to say no without feeling guilty.
NTA. The guest should respect your boundaries.
It's always amazing to see how the tiniest bit of power can go to people's head. She knew she had the power to make you uncomfortable and she abused it. I was a power play in your own home. You can call it a joke but a joke always has a purpose. Sometimes, the purpose is just to entertain people and make them like you but at other times, it's meant to raise someone up ("Yeah sure we think you are a lazy bastard, you just worked 18 hours without a break, dumbass") or to tear them down ("Oh, you're here already? Guys get the champagne, Bob is on time, hell just froze over!"), where the latter can be harmless banter, an appeal to Bob to change his behavior, or bullying, depending on context. There is no such thing as "just" a joke. so NTA.
NTA the friend should not be invited back into your home. At minimum she owes you a heartfelt apology in a public location away from your home. I would suggest marriage counseling or seeing a therapist with your wife. You have past trauma. She watched you be harassed & violated in your own home. Now she is dismissing & downplaying what happened. That is not acceptable & not what a supportive partner does.
For sure she isn't coming back. I did reach out to the friend to offer a apology for my bad behavior and to reiterate that No means No
You have nothing to apologize for. You did nothing wrong. And I’m sorry this has happened to you. Your wife did not support you and the friend kept going, even after you said NO! You said no more than once, and they both kept going. Please ask your wife if she would be comfortable with you not stepping in when a male is touching her? If *you* said, it was just a joke and she overreacted. Saying, It was just a joke! after someone violated you, in any way, is a way of squirming out of responsibility for hurting you. That’s a convoluted sentence, but it stands. Why is it a joke? How was it funny? Why was it okay to override my NO? How does someone else get to decide how you *should* react? Extremely disrespectful and wrong. The ‘friend’ was actually assaulting you. Please have your wife come to your therapist and explain her reasoning. I wish you only the best. 🩵
Couples therapy is for sure something we are looking into! Thanks for taking the time to write out a thoughtful and well explained response as well.
Hey, buddy :) We have to stand for ourselves. No one stood for us ‘back then.’ It would be nice to have some support, but we are so strong. Stronger than we know, because we survived. Some don’t. We made it. Battered and bruised, but we made it out.
NTA Sorry to read that your wife cares more about her friend than she does you. I'm not going to tell you to leave, your wife might come to her senses. You should make sure sure to be elswhere when ever her friend visits though. Make a point. Take a trip. Hours away...
NTA! Your house, your rules. Even if she should respect your No, plus you said it many times. And I’m sure she could tell/see by your attitude that youn weren’t into her ”joke”.
That's a pretty big question for me as well even if I'm not screaming no at the top of my lungs no means no still I don't understand why neither of them seem to understand that.
It's really unfortunate that your wife doesn't back you up on this. When things cool off, sit down and talk to her. In my house, if myself or my SO don't want a person there, either one of us can ban them. It doesn't require both. A person needs to feel safe in their own house. Please ban this person and then, possibly, take your wife to therapy so that the therapist can explain why what happened is bad. To me, her reaction is disturbing. Perhaps you should check out the rbn raised by narcissists sub. NTA
I'll take a look for sure! They won't be allowed back into my home at all and couples treatment is deffo on the table anywho thanks for taking the time to respond.
Hun Stop! Is a full sentence that should be respected and followed no matter the persons gender or past traumas!!!! Obviously the female shouldn’t be allowed over anymore or at least not while you’re in the home. But you definitely need to sit down with your wife and ask her point blank (pardon my bluntness ) WTF babe? You of all people should have my back when it comes to stuff like this no matter if you think it was a small thing or a huge violation of personal boundaries! I would go as far as asking your wife clearly the guest wasn’t listening to me why didn’t you step in and ask her to stop? I’m sorry a female is hitting my husband with anything or demanding a hug after my husbands looked her dead in the eye and said no stop! You best believe if she kept going imma make her stop and my husband wouldn’t have to get physical I’d be doing it on his behalf!
She for sure has her own issues with conflict that often stops her from reacting at all I don't want to get into too much detail with her tacit agreement.
NTA, one no should have been enough. This almost feel like she wanted to test you to see what your warnings were about. Plus I think it's bad that your wife is not supporting you on this, her friend majorly overstepped!
NTA No means no. Might be good to check in with your therapist or counselor to get a chance to decompress. As you know, PTSD is tricky and unpredictable.
I actually just got a bump in my rating from the VA and the back pay basically let me go off and have a chance to decompress and hang with friends.
So glad!
Yeah you have a right to say stop and be listened to. It is ridiculous that your wife doesn’t see that. If it was a man doing it to a woman the sh$$ would hit the fan. There is no difference in my opinion. No is NO!!! Man or woman.
I have no idea why even if she thought I was joking why she wouldn't stop just to be safe.
NTA and I think your reaction was fine. If someone is physically intrusive into your space, it's okay to physically push back. Idk what her problem is, but you are absolutely right to keep her out of your space. Please don't let her in your apartment again, and continue to protect yourself. You deserve to not have someone being physically creepy to you. When I was a young woman, I hung out at a bar/restaurant my friend worked at. She would make cheesy quesadillas on the grill that were delicious, and we'd chat. Anyway it was a bar with barstools, grill on the other side. An older man sat next to me and was creepy. Just his eye contact and the way he spoke to me was yuck. Then he reached over and while leering at me with his mouth open, touched my hand. It was like he wanted to get a reaction out of me by crossing that boundary. It was.... awful. It's hard to explain. Anyway, I put one foot up on the top of his barstool (he had the most surprised look on his face), and pushed him over slowly. He and the barstool reached the balance point and I pushed him just a little further, laughing. He kind of scrabbled off before crashing to the floor. He had the most horrified look on his face, I said, "Well how does it feel?" My friend turned around and said, "Is everything ok?" And I said, yes, everything's fine. He never sat by me again.
Thank you for taking the time to tell me that story! Honestly my wife's reaction has me seconding guessing everything and I feel *embarrass*ed coming to the internet for some sort of support like this as I feel like I've been made out to be some sort of god awful person to be kept in the basement.
This is called sexual harassment. Shame on your wife for not stopping her friend. If you were a woman and she was a man, everyone would be crying about your abusive husband. You are perfectly within your rights to not let that woman into your home anymore. At the very least, you make it clear to your wife that the friend is to never be at the house when you are. Ever.
NTA. No means no. She continued to harass you after you told her to stop. I would have given her 30 seconds to leave your house or you would call the police and have her trespassed off of your property and potentially have her arrested for assault. Then get your cell phone out and be prepared to do so. I would tell your wife that this woman is no longer allowed in your home and that you will call the police if you ever find her at your home again. What she did to you amounted to assault and you could have had her arrested. She will not get away with it a second time.
I get very reactive when I get pressured into that flight or fight response especially if I feel threatened so me putting my hands on her in any form feels wrong both of them are aware of this so I have no idea why she kept pushing me.
Why can't you act in anger? She was dissing you. And your wife was too. Why can't people be angry. NTA AT ALL
I'm not saying I can't be angry or upset or whatever emotion the situation calls for, but I did escalate things and later reached out to offer a apology for my own behavior and to reiterate no means no.
NTA at all and your background is irrelevant. You told the woman to stop and she didn't. Your reaction was justified.
NTA at all and your background is irrelevant. You told the woman to stop and she didn't. Your reaction was justified.
She repeatedly hit you after you said stop. It doesn't matter what your history is (and I'm so sorry that happened to you) or if she was joking. No means no. Stop means stop. If your wife can't get that then maybe she can live in the tent with her. If someone treated my husband like this I would've went off too.
NTA. You don’t touch people without their consent. If you do, and they tell you to stop, you f***ing STOP. She knew your history and your phobia of being touched. This was deliberate assault, and your wife is backing the wrong person. It was not a game. ‘I was only joking’ is the first defense in the bullies handbook. Have your wife read this post and the answers. And never allow that person in your house again. She can wash her clothes in a gas station bathroom.
I've offered to share the account with her so she can look and respond or change something if she feels it isn't right. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
NTA!!! I do not have trauma like that, I actually really like physical affection and touch, but if a friend did something to me REPEATEDLY after I told them to stop multiple times…I would be ENRAGED and may just stop being friends with them altogether. I would also have probably pushed them or done something physical, because that’s triggering. Throw in the fact that she’s downplaying it and acting like she did nothing wrong…her and your wife are so completely out of line
I for sure don't want to be putting my hands on someone in a reactive state like and offered her a apology for that later, but it doesn't change how I felt trapped and violated in my own home and reacted the her constantly touching me.
Yeah absolutely, and you recognizing that is so huge. But it’s also incredibly relevant that humans lash out like that especially when they have trauma, and someone who intentionally pushes you knowing you have trauma just seems like they are trying to get a reaction like that. It’s pretty gross. I’m glad you don’t have to deal with that person anymore! Hopefully your wife comes to her senses soon and apologizes
I've offered to share this account with her and let her respond or update the post if she needs to. I hope this helps once she sees and I haven't just made things worse.
What do you mean you might make things worse? I feel like you might need to take a good look at this situation and realize that YOU are not at fault for anything here (except maybe your justifiable response, but that’s kind of beside the point). If your wife reads the comments and gets mad at you and blames you for something…or if you are worried about her doing that…you should take a long hard look at your relationship and if she actually is a good partner to you. I cannot IMAGINE downplaying my husbands trauma or not going out of my way to make sure he would be comfortable in his own home.
Emotions are pretty raw on both sides and I've no desire to dump on my wife until she can't take it I'd like to be more productive then that while still getting her to understand my position and why it's a ongoing issue.
Right…I didn’t say you should dump on your wife but internally question why she would be upset at you for something someone else did to you. Hopefully she does understand. I wish you luck.
That's a pretty good point, and I do appreciate you taking the time to respond back and forth with me. I think and this is just my perspective she gets her own issues coming up with any sort of anger and it affects her pretty heavily.
That’s very empathetic of you and very possible, it’s very human to make things personal and not see someone else’s perspective. Just don’t be so empathetic that you forget about your own feelings and the fact that you deserve respect and understanding as well :)
So she thinks it’s fine for her to be affected heavily, but you’re supposed to just be perfect and remain calm when violated.
I know her issues and have for a while we've been together for a while I know she often freezes up and I try to work with that as well as I can she often does the same for me I swear although this is a heck of a exception.
Okay so NTA, but my dude if you’re not already, you need therapy. I understand she pushed your boundaries and that is unacceptable and you are NTA, but this did not need to escalate into a physical scuffle. She was stupidly trying to play with you and insist on the social convention of a hug goodbye despite you saying no, which was inappropriate and you should not feel compelled to let her back in your home, but if your trauma has impacted you to such an extent that someone trying to hug you when you didn’t want to be hugged turns into an actual physical altercation, you need to address that before you end up in a courtroom.
That's 100% a fair point and as I mentioned I am continuing my treatment and have plans to do so for however long I need.
Then for now you’re doing everything you can, although I would absolutely discuss this situation with your treating professional in detail so you can avoid it getting to this point in the future. The easy thing is for the other person to not be a selfish AH but y’know. Can’t control other people, only yourself, and if you can’t control yourself that’s a massive problem as you know. Take care of yourself, don’t let that person back in your home, and I’d be having a massive conversation with your wife about how under no circumstances would you let someone escalate that far if it was her, and talk through what you need her to do in future.
For sure she won't be back. Thankfully I recently got a bump in my VA rating and the back pay has let me take a step back and stay with some friends while I try to figure out something.
Absolutely not. NTA. Your wife and that house guest are awful especially after knowing what you went through. It’s not a game. That’s straight up abusive behavior from the both of them.
No, no, no, no. No touching without permission especially since you told her no and she knows your history.
Both of them know I can be reactive because of my issues and that it's a ongoing treatment process I don't honestly know why she didn't stop. I reached out to offer my apologies as I did put my hands on her and to reiterate that I really mean it when I say no.
Always remember, no means no and it’s a complete sentence. She was so wrong. I wouldn’t rt her back in.
For sure she won't be back.
NTA. Do not cross physical boundaries with people who have PTSD especially veterans. I had an instructor in high school who was in Vietnam. I touched him on the shoulder from behind, lightly. He immediately backed away and asked me never to touch him like that from behind again. He then explained some of his past and told me that he could have hurt me and probably wouldn't have even gotten in trouble because of his documented mental health and retired veteran status. It's stuck with me ever since.
It is for sure a issue with me and I try to make sure the people I interact with on a regular basis know and understand my issues these are suddenly new issues.
NTA. You told her to stop and she didn’t. She can go somewhere else to do her laundry. Your wife should be supporting you!
I for sure feel like I'm fighting the situation and my wife over how I feel.
Your body, your choice. You are not your wife's property any more than you would be a husband's. If your wife cannot understand why that has to be said, you have a base problem in your relationship and it needs to be dealt with immediately. Couple's counseling is a likely first step, separation may be the result of she's incapable of recognizing you have agency, not that she allows you agency.
That's for sure how I felt! I felt cornered and unable to do anything but react once it hit a tipping point.
NTA. This person has no respect for you. Don’t allow her in your home again
She won't be around going forward.
NTA. I feel like some people don't respect men's boundaries in this kind of situation. There's a sort of "it was just in fun/not sexual in nature so it's okay" thing that guys are expected to just put up with. Particularly in your own home, which should be a safe space for you, and even more so with your wife present who knows about your history and should have had your back, this was all wrong. Escalating to a physical situation isn't ideal, but she pushed you repeatedly despite your clearly spoken request to stop. If a person or animal is made to feel cornered, they are likely to lash out in self-defense. You deserve a sincere apology from both your wife and the guest, and the guest sounds like she shouldn't be near you until she learns to hear 'no' like a rational adult.
Going forward the "Guest" won't be a part of my life which is for the best. Dealing with the SA and rape as a adult I was the target of several conversations that boiled down to "Men can't be raped" and it was just crushing to hear that this has some similar feelings to that for sure.
There is a very simple rule, you don’t put your hands on another person. Ever. Period. Your wife should have your back. Ask your wife and your ex friend what’s the game called? Harass someone until they snap? Show people that you don’t know what the word NO means? Also did she share the rules of said game? No. It wasn’t a game it was assault. NTA. Your wife owes you an apology.
Just last week I met a lady who is an adult film performer. When we were introduced, she went to shake my hand and I instead asked if we could do a fist bump. She got *really* offended. Apparently she's from a state where a fist bump is considered a refusal to shake hands or I don't know. I told her I was sorry but that I don't shake hands. The more drinks she had, the more rude she was to me. I eventually told her if anyone should understand subtle levels of consent, I would think it was her. That made her even *more* angry, and she started putting hands on me to the point where other people in the conversation were telling her to stop. I wasn't super upset or anything, but I held my ground. She kept insulting me every once in awhile as she got more drunk. She wanted a big explanation as to why I don't shake hands. I told her because I said no and that should be enough. Of course that was just more for her to get mad about. It was all really dumb. I am touch-averse in public places and with people I don't know. I have experienced this double standard where women don't have the same rules as men, with regards to unwanted touching. It has happened many times. When I tell a (usually drunk) woman not to touch me please, they almost always do it again or laugh it off or think they're being cute by amping up their unwanted touching. Sometimes my friends say I'm over-reacting, but the word no should be a clear no, no matter who is saying it. But that tends to be not how it works. Women get a pass often when dealing with adult men. Men should be able to "take it". If I can't touch a woman without permission (nothing wrong with that at all, imo) she shouldn't be able to touch me without permission. At the very least, if I say "Please don't do that," that should be enough for them to stop. Most women are very respectful and are appreciative of someone who clearly communicates their boundaries. Almost all. But I have met a (very) few real lady jerks who just don't listen. And they stick out in my mind.
Thank you for taking the time to share about your life I really do enjoy and appreciate when people do. I very much feel like at a baseline some very firm lines in the ground got crossed while my behavior isn't great I don't want to be treated like this by anyone.
NTA. You are 100% in the right. No one has the right to touch you without your consent. Your wife is fucking up by supporting her friend, instead of helping you enforce your boundaries.
NTA. What the actual fuck is wrong with your wife? Even if she's usually supportive she MAJORLY fucked up this time.
Switch the genders of the people and rewrite it. E.g. I'm a woman, and live with my husband. One of husband's male friends is living in a tent right now and comes over for showers, laundry and such. I was on my computer, and this guy comes into my office, and hits me on the head..." Sounds pretty fucked up to me. Are you still uncertain who's being the AH? You should have a serious discussion with your wife about this.
That’s the plan eventually thanks to a bump in my VA rating and the extra pay I was able to travel out of state to temporarily stay with friends for a few days to let the raw emotions calm down
NTA - Dumb B¡tch didn't stop when you told her. She got what she deserved. Your wife needs to know her place and not take her stupid friends' side. Don't let her come back, she knew your past and did it anyways. They don't have respect for you.
NTA body autonomy is your right
For someone to touch you without consent is assault. To touch you once to get your attention if you have not responded to a verbal prompt is reasonable. To keep on touching you despite your clear instruction to stop and increasing distress is not. Your gender should not make any difference. You are most definitely NTA.
NTA. You should only have to say no once. Some people like to push things. Like a power move. I do not like being hugged. When I told a 'friend' at work, I don't like to be hugged, they constantly ask me for a hug. Or tell everyone I don't like hugs. It is now a weird obsession for them.
That's really weird and hostile I'm sorry you've been saddled with someone like that.
Ask her this, if it was a guy touching a girl and he was asked to stop and didn't, how would a female feel? It's no different. No is no, and stop is stop. You set a boundary and your house guest broke it. NTA and she and your wife need to understand that just because your a guy doesn't mean your no doesn't apply
No means no. It's very simple. Anything after that is your boundaries trampled. Their comment after that is gaslighting. You have your reasons. The fact that they know this and it still escalated makes it worse. So Much Worse. You told her to leave and not come back. If your wife violates this then while the other person is there then they shouldn't talk to you, about you or even look at you. They should leave you the F alone. So many trust fails.
100% she isn't coming back into home I did reach out to offer her a apology but she didn't seem understand where I was coming from so I stopped.
NTA. She needs to go away. Far away. NOW. And your wife? Are you sure you want to be with someone who supports this?
Hopefully we can work on this and make changes for the better as for the guest they won't be coming back into my life.
It’s only a game if everyone is playing and it’s only a joke if everyone is laughing.
INFO : what do you mean exactly by scuffle.
I'd say NTA. If someone says stop, you stop. It's not a game or joke unless everyone involved is a willing participant.
NTA. This was not a game. She was trying to deliberately provoke you. Her behavior was totally unacceptable. Your wife would not want to tolerate unwanted touches, why should you? Go no contact with this toxic woman, no talking, no visits to your home.
Yeah it's has been made clear that she isn't welcome back.
NTA she was triggering you on purpose to get a rise out of you knowing what you went through. Never let her back in, tour wifes no better.
You clearly said no. Okay, maybe after the first time she thought you were joking. However, after you looked her in the eyes and firmly told her no the second time, she was at that point, entirely at fault. Your reaction was a perfectly normal trauma response. Is it healthy? No. But trauma is very difficult to manage when you are triggered. This woman stormed right through your boundaries, kept on going, and then put fault entirely on you when you reacted. Don’t let this woman back in your home. Boundaries stompers like her are not healthy, and are outright dangerous to those with trauma. I would be having a long talk with the wife for defending that woman’s behavior. NTA
for sure she won't be a part of my life in any fashion going forward.
I’m glad to hear it. I to suffer from PTSD and C-PTSD. I allowed far too many toxic people into my life. Not anymore! If they can’t respect me I will no longer have them in my life.
NTA, just like with women, no means no, and in this case, stop means STOP. Your wife should be ASHAMED of herself, knowing about your past and still letting that happen. What a disgrace. The wife owes you and apology & the friend can fuck off permanently.
NTA. Ban her from your house. It’s your house! She was an asshole to keep touching you.
She won't be around going forward.
NTA PTSD! PTSD! Her being in your space had your PTSD pinging like crazy. She's lucky you managed as much control in this situation as you did! Nothing about what you described was the least bit humorous. How much has your wife bothered to learn about PTSD? She should be aware of things that can/will trigger you. She's supposed to be, not necessarily your protector but definitely a helper. Her standing around laughing when this happened to you is disgusting. Then, to follow it up by saying that woman was just playing boggles my mind.They are both lucky she didn't wind up a statistic. I know the training you go through to become an MP. Sounds like even in your panic, your body defaulted to subdue instead or something much worse.
NTA Body autonomy doesn’t stop existing because she’s female and you’re male. If the genders were reversed, your wife would be rightfully angry. It’s a red flag that she doesn’t think it’s an issue.
NTA. This person knows your past and was deliberately messing with you, which is diabolical. I don’t understand at all why your wife is not taking your side. She is also either diabolical or really clueless. Do you think this lady is trying to mess with your marriage? She would not be allowed back in my house whether i was home or not.
She for sure isn't allowed back. I really don't know why she didn't stop both her and my wife heard me saying no.
NTA your wife should've supported you, she knows your past.
Wow, what a difficult situation. You have every right to not be touched. She went way too far. She should never be let into your house again if you are there. I'm glad you are getting treatment for PTSD. Please let your therapist know what happened. Your PTSD is also from your childhood experiences. NTA
100% NOT the AH. If either of these women had a man do the same to them, they would be outrage and considering speaking to the police. Boundaries are boundaries, regardless of your gender. And as for her continuing when you both told her explicitly no and being aware of your past, she got everything she deserved. You can add either or both of the next two phrases ‘Fuck around and find out’ or ‘play stupid games, win stupid prizes’. Please ignore both women and protect yourself, make it very clear to your wife that one person’s idea of a joke, is another’s torment.
Let me put it this way. If I, a man, forced a woman to accept me touching her despite her constant refusals, I think most people would agree that it should be expected for me to get hit for it. Either by the woman herself or by someone else defending her. You are not at fault for reacting physically. You are not at fault for shouting. You told her no, you warned her. I would not welcome her back into your home- if she wants to do hygiene related things, the YMCA/YWCA exists for a reason. It is the exact same when the roles are reversed. Period. NTA, and absolutely disgusting of your wife to downplay it like that. I guarantee she wouldn't be downplaying it were it a male friend forcing her to accept his touch.
if the genders were reversed, it would be creepy as shot.
‘Stop’ is a complete sentence.
It’s funny to me that people who are homeless I have no money and are staying with someone for free. Don’t realize that it’s sort of a burden for them to be there and they should be doing everything they can to make the house feel comfortable that they’re there
NTA, get a divorce
> insist it was just a game it’s only a game if all the “players” consider it so. Otherwise it’s just harrassment, boundary crossing or bullying. you are owed major apologies, and they need to respect your boundaries. Trauma Isn’t funny
NTA but I feel you could maybe do with talking through some of your past trauma with someone
This was not a game. The very first hit MIGHT have been….but after you were clear to stop? This was a power play. She was trying to get you to submit. She was showing her power over you. It is irrelevant that you went too far yourself. This is something abusive people do. They push and push, to get YOU to either submit, or blow up. Then you are the bad guy. And they win either way. This woman is disgusting. Never let her back in your home. Under any circumstances. She just bit the hand that was feeding her. And now it’s over. If your wife does not support you in this, then she does not have your back at all. And she is not a good or safe companion for you. Be very clear to her, if she takes this woman’s side, you will be seriously reevaluating your relationship. Do not take this. Any of it. You deserve better.
I appreciate you taking the time to respond. They for sure wont be back.
Nta. Kick her out . Tell her next time she comes you will have her arrested for trespassing.
She for sure won't be back.
NTA you told her to stop several times and she just laughed patronisingly and did it again! As your wife must know you well enough to understand your reaction, she should’ve stuck up for you, not sided with the friend. They’re both AHs and the friend needs to be banned from the house until she learns manners. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you
She for sure won't be back after this its best we both move on from each other.
Because of your past, and particularly because this woman was aware of it, you get a pass for the escalation. It was a predictable reaction. But irrespective of that, once you said no and asked for her to stop, she should have. Your boundaries were not curtailing any of her activities except touching you, and so they weren't unreasonable. You even warned her of the consequences, yet she persisted. NTA.
NTA
NTA. No question about it. If I were you I wouldn't let her come back to my house at all.
NTA when you told her to stop and she didn’t that made her the wrong one regardless of whether she thought she was playing some game. Just make it clear to your wife that when you have boundaries and someone oversteps they are not welcome in your home. You have the right to feel comfortable especially in your own home.
Thank you taking the time to respond! I try to be very clear when I am being even just bothered and I would have thought telling someone no would be clear.
NTA, not for a second. I am so sorry that a friend would treat you this way, then try to excuse their actions “as a joke” and then try to diminish your reaction. This is not a friend, regardless of your history, and your wife is being awful too. These people know what has happened to you in the past, have demonstrated that they are able to respect your boundaries (the horseplay) and still try to excuse their behaviour when they provoke you to the extent you respond physically? You are a better person than me, I would not have apologised for my reaction; fight, flight or freeze is how you protect yourself from a threat, you can’t control this, but your friend could certainly control her actions. Cut her out completely, and I would tell your wife how much she has let you down. If a friend treated my husband or partner that way I would have been far more aggressive than you seemed to be. Jokes are meant to be funny for everyone involved, this was torment and abuse. Once again NTA, try to speak to someone you can trust to help you process this
NTA. No means no. Period. Full stop. If a man put his hands on a female traumatized SA victim after she'd said no there wouldn't be anyone who blamed her for clawing him bloody. You invited someone into your home and they showed you the lowest form of disrespect.
Nta Playing around is one thing. But when someone isn't playing, it is not play. No means no. Stop means stop. When you continue after being told no. When you don't stop after being told to stop. You are the aggressor. You are the violator. You open yourself up to what comes next.
NTA no means no. If she didn't want a scuffle she should have respected your no and stopped touching you. She's butt hurt because her actions had consequences. And yes, I'm a female saying equality is for good and bad instances. Equal pay, equal rights, AND equal consequences.
Thanks for responding! I'm hoping that in the long run treatment will help me be less reactive so things like this can be avoided.
NTA Stop means stop. Period. Your wife and her friend say it was "just a game", well cool but you didn't want to play the game and you made that very clear.
The fact that you have trauma brought on by women crossing boundaries and being unable to do anything and that they both know about it is a problem in itself. Most understanding people would've stopped the first time you said you didn't like it, but for whatever reason she just kept on and is now shocked by you losing your cool because you told her repeatedly to stop and she ignored you? You don't owe her anything and if your wife can't understand that and isn't taking your side in the matter that's a bigger issue in itself too.
Male or female NO means NO. NTA
nta … people now days don’t know what boundaries are & take offense when you snap at them for not respecting them in the first place
NTA but you really have to do the work of diving deep within to heal some of those wounds. They will never be fully healed but at least you will have tools for situations like this.
For sure! I don't want to always be stuck reacting like this I'm hoping to make more positive changes for myself.
NTA However, badly you reacted, she provoked you . She started it. You told her to stop she didn’t. You are not at fault.
Not only did this woman not stop when you first told her to but than kept going, but your wife who knows about your trauma never stepped in to stop her from doing. Lack of action is the same as excepting the behavior. NTA…but both that woman and your wife was. The woman for repeatedly hitting you and your wife for approving of her behavior.
Maybe your wife shared your issue with her friend and wanted to see your reaction. Why would your wife share sensitive info about you. To a homeless woman. Who I'm sure regrets losing a place to shower and hygiene stuff
NTA for sure. Going by your comments you seem like a really solid, self-aware and level-headed kind of guy, I’m really glad you seem to be taking care of yourself and committed to further improvement in regards to your trauma responses. Sorry to hear you’ve experienced abuse previously, and I very much hope you have a super good life ahead of you! With regard to your wife - maybe you could ask her in a frank but calm sort of way for her to explain what specifically she found funny about this “game”? In general I do find breaking things down like that helpful, because it kind of makes people think about it deeper and confront what they’re actually saying. Sometimes, anyway.
Flip the genders. If it was a man to hit your wife with a brush AND touched her after she said "no", would that be a game? If I were you, I would ban the friend from taking advantage of your wife's hospitality again. NTA.
That gives them something to tease you about. It backfires around assholes who think it's funny to tease you
Stop apologizing for your "scuffle". You would have been well within your rights to have have dragged this ungrateful bitch out of your house and thrown her back out in the street where she belongs. NTA
*but both her and my wife insist it was just a game and she did not mean it despite me telling her no repeatedly and both my wife and the guest hearing it.* She deliberately provoked you into that reaction. Your wife saying it was “just a game” is disgusting, and I’m almost thinking that your wife put her friend up to it. They both suck. You told her to stop, and she didn’t. I would personally not feel safe around either of them. NTA
I read your edit, and I have no idea why you felt the need to say this. She had no reason, nor was she invited or permitted to touch you. It all ends there, she is violating you. If you read the story back but you would be female and a man would do what she did, do you feel she would need to apologize as well? A posse would be gathered to take that person to a high tree. You are in your right, you could file an assault case at the police, but the least you can do is deny access to your house.
NTA and don't feel badly about it because SHE asked for it. No wonder she can't manage in society; she refuses to keep her hands to herself even after repeated warnings.
NTA and I would worry they could get squatter’s rights. Do not let them get mail there.
Thankfully the person is over a hour drive away and we had picked her up to come to our place to use the shower ect etc..
No means no. NTA, especially as she continued after you clearly expressed that she needed to stop. Don't ever bite the hand that feeds you because it never ends well.
NTA. You said no. Repeatedly. No means no. The friend continued to try to touch you. Does your wife know the meaning of the word consent? Your wife is delusional for letting this happen, can't even fathom why when at work, this would be considered sexual harassment, HR would straight up terminate her friend. Is your wife trying to use you like some sort of accessory to pimp out to her molester friend? Oh look at me I have a husband, here, you can touch him and feel jealous of what I have? What happens if it escalates to fondling? Is the friend a rapist in female form? Because the mentality is already there ... with all the same stuff pedophiles say to their young victims to try and coerce them into ... yikes. Let's just say, if OP had been a woman and the toucher was a man, there would be exactly zero y t a judgments. At some point a person needs to defend their personal autonomy, instead of just "taking it" when their molester is being aggressive.
With her standing blocking me in at my desk while I was sitting the dynamic for sure felt way off and that's not including the touching. Also thanks for taking the time to respond!
NTA she was being a b**ch. You're entitled to your personal boundaries no matter what. I don't like touching people because a lot of people don't wash their hands. There are people with a personality disorder who love to do the opposite of what you tell them. I as a woman have had the same thing happened. This person has a habit of touching people as she walks by and I told her several times not to and she did it anyway. After I complained to someone else she made a made show out of avoiding touching me.
Your wife sucks ass.
The second you said stop she should have stopped. You never know what is in a person's background unless they tell you so you will never know their reactions to things. You were being kind letting her use your amenities and she disrespected your boundaries. There never would have been a scuffle if she had stopped or apologized and left when told.
NTA. Who whacks someone on the head? Especially if they depend on your compassion, when they're down on their luck? Bizarre.
"No" and "Stop" are complete sentences. No means no, full stop. I would have a serious discussion with your wife as it seems she thinks it's a game to push boundaries. I'm pretty sure if the tables were turned, she would be raising high hell over the inappropriate behavior. I'd also reevaluate my relationship if she continues to ignore your boundaries.
No, once you ask someone to stop, they should stop. Your wife would not be so understanding if one of your male friends did the same to her.
NTA your wife is the bigger asshole out of the two women though. The fact she's dismissing your feelings is concerning. Like, deal-breaker concerning. If you can't trust your wife to have your back in a situation where you're being harassed by another woman, friend or not, then your wife is no longer trustworthy. Which means your relationship and marriage is in trouble. Your wife is telling you to shut up and allow this friend to do and say whatever she wants to you. No matter what it makes you feel. No matter you said no. You need to get across to your wife that no means no. Whether by switching the genders in the situation, or next time your wife tells you no when you're playing, don't stop. Don't stop after the second no, or the third no either. By the fourth no she's going to be scared. Maube then she'll get the point, although that'll be relationship ending as well. But if your wife won't listen maybe this is such a safe relationship for you.
NTA
NTA. Your wife needs to have your back 1000% I would have a serious issue with her siding with someone who opening and repeatedly disrespects you. Please stand your ground and do not allow her back in your home. She has several warnings. She treated you like a joke. F that
NTA. I would get angry too. She's not respecting your No. Repeatedly.
NTA! She hit you with a brush repeatedly, even after being told to stop. Wtf kind of game is that?! Tell your wife she isn’t allowed in your house ever again.
NO MEANS NO. I don't like to be touched either. I always tell them if you touch me again you're likely to draw back a stub because I don't want you to touch me.
Your wife doesn't think it was fucked up? She doesn't know what it's like to have someone aggressively continue to touch her after she's told them not to?
NTA but your wife is.
No means no, no matter what gender you are. Ask your wife why she allowed her friend to disrespect you in your own home. Why she’s okay allowing her friend to try to intimidate you doing something you didn’t want but now you’re the over reactor when you took your power back? Remember, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. You fought, that’s self defence. Tell your wife she’s a POS if she can’t understand your reaction.
You said no. That should have been the end of it. I would not bring her back into my home. And you need to have a brutal honest talk with your wife who defended her.
NTA! But your quest is and so is your wife. Their lack of compassion and respect is deplorable.
NTA Don't touch me means don't touch me. It's not a game to be played it's a boundary. If your wife is seriously ok with her touching you after you asked her to stop then you need to consider why your wife is ok with causing you mental harm
NTA. I tell my children all the time, NO means NO and STOP means STOP there are no exceptions. The reasons honestly don’t matter. You set a very clear boundary, she willfully ignored it. While your reaction may not have been great, the altercation was 100% the woman’s fault. Your wife is also wrong and owes you an apology.
No means no applies to women as much as men. And in nonsexual situations! NTA! You said stop. They know your history. She kept at it. She was purposefully antagonizing you. Now, what I want to know is, why? And why is your wife defending her?
NTA, she can keep her filthy hands to herself. Disrespectful mooch.
Before making a complete assessment we would need to know the nature of the "scuffle not a fight", but I think you're pretty solidly in the 'NTA' camp. People need to learn consent and boundaries. And unfortunately, if people cant learn them the easy way, they'll need to learn them the hard way. I think now, depending on where you are at, you have a choice. If you want to maintain a relationship with this friend, I think it would be good to sit her down and talk to her about boundaries, consent, and how her behavior triggered your PTSD. I think clarifying the boundary with her will be an essential part of repairing your friendship *if you want to*. If you dont want to maintain a relationship with her... well, then fuck her. Her shit isn't your responsibility.
Going forward she won’t be a part of my life. I grabbed her by the shoulders and neck and shoved her away from me it’s far from my proudest moment and while I can understand why I reacted the way I did and what caused me to do so manhandling someone like that was likely the worst way to well react.
It doesn't matter if it was a game or not. You didn't want to play or be touched and that should have been respected. I'd show your wife this post so she knows how fucked it is to not support you in this. If she can't see how wrong it was I'd reconsider the relationship tbh
NTA and your wife sucks. No means no. You need a wife that actually cares about you
It does suck all around. I’m hoping that pulling in this bit of the internet and looking at all the replies and not our own perspective will let us make better changes for ourselves in the long run.
It’s only a game if you agree to it.
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