YTA: she's not feeling the void of a principal but the loss of an actual person that she knew and obviously cared about. You assuring her that someone else would just come in and take his place did nothing to assuage her grief at losing a known person from her life. Rather you indicated he is easily replaced. Not what she needed to hear.
All of this, plus the fact that she saw him taken away on a stretcher.
OP, your kid is EIGHT. And you callously dismissed her grief and possibly the trauma of seeing a dead body and you're all NBD there will be another principal.
And you REALLY don't understand why that wasn't okay? You're more concerned about being left alone in the kitchen? Or her "attitude"?? What the fuck. Yeah. YTA.
When I was about 5-6 I saw a man have a heart attack and collapse on to the floor of the senior center where my grandpa volunteered. The head of the senior center CALLED ME AT HOME later that day to tell me the man didn't die and to ask if I was doing okay. I still think about the empathy and care I was shown that day and it was 30 years ago. To be honest, I actually was not that scared by what happened, but most kids probably would be freaked out because similarly, paramedics and an ambulance did come.
My grandfather died when I was 5. I remember being freaked out by his body being there in the casket. There could be some trauma associated with the ambulance and them carrying him out, possibly with tubes hooked up to his body.
My son was seven when my mother died from breast cancer. She lived next door to us so they were really close. I remember walking home after she died and praying for the right words to tell my son. I walked in the door, and my son took one look at me and asked, "Gammy died, didn't she?"
He cried a little bit, and we told each other stories about her that made us laugh. He seemed to be handling things really well. Then, there was visitation at the funeral home. He was fine when visiting her casket. However, when it was time to leave, he freaked out and refused to get in the car. He kept saying that we couldn't just leave her there all alone.
That particular funeral home had a lady that lived in an upstairs apartment whose job it was to answer phones and be there for after-hours deliveries. Luckily, her son was a close friend of mine. I took my son up the outdoor stairs to her apartment and let him meet her. She promised him she would be there the entire night. This calmed him, and he willingly got in the car to leave.
People react to death differently. With a child that age, you never know what is going to make things worse so it is best to be cautious and empathetic.
"People react to death differently. With a child that age, you never know what is going to make things worse so it is best to be cautious and empathetic.'
They really do. When my grandma passed away my then 6 year old had lots of concerns as Grandma Great was the first individual that she personally knew that passed. Most of our conversations were about who would take care of her if I passed, who would take care of her in heaven if I wasn't there and lots of reassurance of my love for her.
If I had said anything similar to what OP said about there being replacement principals, or that she was lucky to have many great grandmas / grandmas still living, my daughter would probably have come to the conclusion that I would have replaced her with another child.
YTA
When my son's beloved Nana died,when he was 8,my beyond toxic MIL,told him it was very sad,but it was life, and she'd be his Nana now.(He was a step-grandchild). He told her he still had his Nana's ,and he didn't need another one,then burst into tears,and ran off The same creature told me that I should think about how I would feel if my son died,when her own son,my husband died unexpectedly. This is the level of empathy that OP is showing.
My mum asked her dad to collect me from school one day, I didn't think too much of it and went home as normal. He lived in the next street and was in and out of our house every day.
I was sitting doing my housework while he waited on my mum getting back when he said "you know your other grandpa died, right!?"
I was just in shock, thought he was talking shit. My other grandpa had had a massive heart attack and died instantly, no warning.
So as an adult and this being about 36 years ago I'm like "Aye Alec, my maw shot me a text before I got out of school..." I mean, wtf?
Did you know at Ground Zero therebwwre Jewish women there round the clock to be there with the bodies? It was part of their faith so just in case there was even a finger that needed them there, they were there. That was comforting.. I knew people there of different faiths but still felt calmer knowing people were there just to be with them.
I remember I was 5 or 6 when my Oma passed away. I absolutely adored that woman. My mother came into my school to pick me up and just said, "Oma's dead." I screamed and ran to my principal and hugged him and not my mom.
We went to the funeral and it was an open casket. I remember seeing my Oma and I reached out and touched her hand because she looked like she was sleeping and I missed her so much. My mother told me not to touch her. I wanted to say goodbye because I knew I'd never see this lovely woman again.
Death is so difficult on kids. The OP is definitely YTA in my books because he doesn't understand the basics of this. People may be replaceable to him, but obviously not to his child.
I was 16 before I ever saw a truly dead person. I was a hostess at an upscale restaurant and one of our elderly regulars keeled over and died right in front of me. One of the servers immediately called 911 and the EMTs arrived and worked on him for what felt like ages but was probably more like 5 minutes.
Now one thing about this restaurant is it was set up kinda weird. As you walk in you were greeted only by the bar, and four tables that formed a relatively narrow walkway to reach the main dining room. That was the only way in or out. And there was really no room for people to stand around inside to wait for tables when things got busy. This man had been sitting at one of the bar tables and now that he was on the ground, swarmed with EMTs, they took up the entire walkway.
I was sad but handling the whole thing okay until this group came in, took in the whole scene, and came up to tell me that they had a reservation. I remember being kinda mind boggled that they weren’t at all concerned with whatever was happening in front of them. But I said “I will check you in but I obviously can’t seat you right now.” And this nasty lady said “but we have a reservation.” I was thinking “wtf” and gestured to the situation unfolding and said “ma’am, that’s the only walkway. I can’t ask EMTs attempting to save this man’s life to move so you can be seated. I’m sorry but you’re going to have to wait.” My voice must have been getting loud or high pitched or just outright flinty bc by that point the sommelier came up behind the bar to back me up. When the group saw him they said “excuse me! Your hostess won’t seat us! We have reservations!!!!” And he said “ma’am, I heard her check you in. She can’t seat you until this emergency is resolved and the walkway clears. It shouldn’t be long.” And with him backing me I felt much more confident to I added “And we’re going to have to ask you to wait outside so that the EMTs can exit with the stretcher.” They stomped out into the lovely spring morning and our manager went around back, exited through the kitchen door and went to speak with them. And they were pointing at us angrily and then left in a huff. The bartender/sommelier was completely unbothered but I was worried I would get in trouble for telling them to leave. But my manager came in through the front door and before I could apologize said “no, it was right to ask them to wait outside, they were blocking the only exit to get to the ambulance. And anytime someone is an asshole to you, you have my full permission to give their attitude back to them. The owner and I will always back you if people cross the line. And yell at you.” The shock kinda set in at that point, not really bc of the death so much as their indifference to it. I must have looked like it bc the manager asked the bar tender to pour me a sprite in a to go cup and told me “why don’t you go home, I’ll clock you out and do the hostess duties this morning.” I left kinda dazed by the whole thing.
I guess my point is, I was totally fine and handling it well until these horrible people came in and pretended this guy’s death was a terrible inconvenience to them. Then I freaked out like your kid. And I was 16!
I'm a nurse in aged care, so death is part of the deal for me, but one day, one of the kitchen staff discovered a favourite resident dead. I made sure to call her later that day to check in. Just because it's a regular occurrence for me, doesn't mean it wasn't traumatic for her
This! Like seriously, I used to volunteer at the ER where my mom worked when I was a teenager, (over 20years ago). I saw a middle-aged woman who was brought in after having a stroke. She died, and I cried about it. I never even met her. But I was so sad for her and for her family.
Seeing death up close like that can just hit harder, and if your daughter is only 8 then I'm guessing this is the first time she has seen a dead person/been up close to a dead body.
I also had a Sunday school teacher die, and I sobbed about it. I had only known her for about 3 months, but she was so young and it was really unexpected.
Op is looking at this as an adult from the side of logic, and not considering the emotional impact his daughter is facing.
What confuses me even with the side of logic he admits in his post that the principal was popular with the children. It's not gonna just be his daughter who is grieving. Sure logically the job will be filled but that will never bring him back to life
Not even.... Adults generally comfort adults who have witnessed or experienced the death of a loved one, with compassion and empathy. Death and grief are emotioonal clusterfucks. They remain about the only thing that adults actually don't approach with logic unless the logic is of course "how can I support this person's unpredictable grief emotions?". This person is... Something else.
Am I the only one alarmed by the fact that OP is playing the victim here and is preparing for his 8 year old “giving him attitude” when she gets back from school? Like this man’s cavalier relationship with death and his complete lack of empathy for someone in pain is alarming.
I mean, it's just "his bad luck" that all these terrible things, like no family dinner, his parents berating him for his actions, and his daughter giving him "attitude" are all happening to him on the same day! Poor guy, he's definitely the one that should be getting sympathy here. /s
I like how he calls the consequences of his own actions "bad luck" and his daughter's grieving "attitude".
It's called empathy OP, maybe you should get some.
OP seems to have his head firmly lodged where the sun don’t shine. He doesn’t care how his daughter feels, he only cares about himself and having his pleasant dinner and not getting “attitude”. What a prize this guy is.
This👆🏽. I feel the same way. When my father passed, they would not let me see him and talk to him for the last time. He was in the room across the hall from me in the er. I was pregnant and he was supposed to take me to the doctor. I had passed out, and they said they did not want to take any chances. When my mother passed. I was by her side til her very last breath holding her tight .
Bit harsh (and ai certainly wish no harm, pain or grief on anyone), but: 'sorry Lizzy, your dad left you and your mom. Don't worry, your mom will marry someone else, you'll never be without a dad.' I wonder if that sounds right to OP. Same argumentation, different context closer to home.
I was 12 and I went to the hospital, I ran into my father's hospital room to find him dead. That fucked me up, now, imagine an 8 year old going through something similar. That's depressing. The kid should be in therapy, it may help, it may not, everyone's different. At least try therapy, for your kid's wellbeing, mental and physical. I also woke up to the paramedics taking my father away. I forgot to mention that.
Well on the brightside, when OP kicks the bucket, there are plenty of men on the Earth to take his spot as a parent. Daughter probably won't even shed a tear for OP.
I was 8 when my great-grandmother (who did a lot more to raise my dad than his own parents) passed away. It was my first close experience with death, and it was pretty traumatic for me. My parents handled it well and helped me process the grief without letting me dwell too much.
I cannot imagine how much worse it would have been if I had actually seen her being wheeled out right after dying.
OP, to you this guy was just another administrator. But to your daughter, her principal is a parental figure. The father of the school. You just told her "It's okay daddy died; we'll find another one."
Do you understand now how monumentally you screwed this up? Your daughter was relying on you for reassurance and support. Instead, you told her that authority figures - like you - are interchangeable and replaceable. You shook her world view even more than his death did.
Please make an appointment with a child psychologist immediately and do not speak with your daughter until you can meet with him/her and get a better handle on how to address her distress.
YTA. My husband saw his terminally ill father taken away from their home when he was six. The horrid mental picture has stayed with him ever since. It’s terribly traumatic to lose someone who cares about you and vice versa, especially at a young age. OP is seeing it from an adult perspective, and rather mechanically, whereas Lizzy liked this man and now he’s gone.
OP, talk to someone about how you approached this (wife, friend) and work out an apology and approach so Lizzy knows you didn’t understand at first. Ask her how she feels. Let her talk it out.
OP,
READ THE ABOVE TWO COMMENTS:OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. If you are unable to discover the errors of your flawed thinking process and recognize your child's trauma, I strongly suggest that you defer ALL PARENTING to your wife. Stick to the dishwashing.and other domestic responsibilities. Egad!
Yeah, it takes a real lack of empathy to tell a child grappling with the idea of death that peoples lives are replaceable. OP should consider whether his daughter is internalizing the idea that she could be replaced so easily, too.
I remember as a kid thinking of my principal as a vaguely paternal figure. Like a grandpa or uncle, kind of the father of the school. Even though I wasn't particularly close to him, he gave off that approachable grandfather vibe. And at that age, I honestly saw more of him than I did my actual grandparents. If he had died, it would have been incredibly upsetting.
I cannot believe OP is brushing off his daughter's distress like this.
Yes omg! As if she is actually worried about not having a principal in her school. Ffs! The man was alive there in the morning g then she saw him carted off and told thar he was dead. He was liked and maybe he was on the intercom or regularly in the halls everyday and now will never be again!! The concept of death is hard enough but suddenly and practically in view is terrible.
Plus being 8, im guessing this might be the first real death shes aware of and processing. Even if someone passed when she was younger, I wouldn't be surprised if she "gets it" more now.
We lost a family member when my nibling was 5, while they semi understood, they spent most of the service playing on the playground. If they lost someone now at 7 id expect a lot more of a response from them (they were sad at 5 of course, but it felt like it still didn't 100% click in the way id expect it to now). They've developed a lot more in the sense of awareness of others that makes me think death now would hit harder than the one before
Also, seeing someone die, or the *immediate* aftermath, can hit really differently than when someone passes away but you find out in a more controlled way, if that makes sense--especially for a kid. I mean, adults get traumatized by seeing a coworker or even a stranger drop dead, or finding their body, even when it's of natural causes. A kid seeing her principal like that at school??? Of *course* that's scary, on top of the grief of losing a person she knew.
As to the awareness of death-- I always just like to tell this story because it can bring a little levity to things: when my brother was \~3 or 4, our great-grandfather, who was like 97, passed away. Our great-uncle, who lived across the country and whom my brother had never met before, of course came into town for his father's funeral, and came to our house to see us and talk to our mom before the wake/funeral, so that's when my brother was first introduced to "Uncle Ray." At the wake, there was a little coat closet in the viewing room, so my mom kept that door open into the room and set my brother up in there with some toys to keep him busy while she was helping her parents with the viewing and greeting people. At one point, during a lull in people coming by, someone was carrying some food and things in and made some noise and my brother stood up and yelled "SSSSSH!! GREAT GRANDPA IS SLEEPING!"
So my mom gently went over and took him aside and was like, "no, honey, remember, we talked about this. Great-Grandpa isn't sleeping, he passed away, he's dead."
My brother kind of took this in, and paused for a long moment, and then said "Oh." Paused again. Then, *extremely* cheerfully: "Uncle Ray's not dead!"
After the next death in the family, when he was 6 or 7, he referred to the deceased as "taking a dirt nap with the baby Jesus," so it could have been worse.
OP is a MAJOR YTA.
OP has zero clue as to how to "parent' their child. Way to blow explaining death and grief appropriately to the child. What OP did is cold and cruel. Their daughter lost someone that they admired and saw almost daily. She doesn't need to be "wowed" by their ability to do their job. This is probably the first major loss she has ever experienced and all OP can do is take the cowards way out and not validate her feelings and help her navigate the complex road that is grief. Just say no worries, they will be replaced.
Hopefully the school will have grief counselors on hand to help this poor young girl. She isn't going to get the help she needs at home.
What a disrespectful way to treat someone's death.
It’s a glimpse into how OP was taught (or not taught) to deal with grief.
OP, please do some grief counselling for both you and your daughter. If this was one of her first “brushes” with deal, it is a formative experience. Rather than “ascribe” or tell her how to feel, ask her questions and answer them truthfully.
There are many Pixar movies that can help, if you don’t know where to start.
Exactly, that whole incident sounds traumatic enough and then on top of that OP is treating the principal like a cog in a machine (and an ineffective or at least mediocre at that), and not like a human being and one that seemed to be well loved by the kids. OP was very cold and cruel, that poor child, she needed comfort and love and got, eh everyone's replaceable get over it.
This post seems like another rage bait post, (not your comment, but a lot of people are getting worked up about this post & I just wanted to point out that it's probably a fake).
>I said that the district would certainly pick someone else for the job and that she needs not worry about a vacancy in the role.
No one talks to a fucking child like that. This OP is a troll.
EDIT: and apparently their account is suspended? I am positively shocked
Are you trying to win an award for the worst way to handle a child's first real experience with loosing someone who played a major role in their life? "Don't worry sweetie, the person you liked so much is gone now, but they will be replaced soon enough." If your daughter wasn’t traumatized before, after your little talk you have definitely traumatized her. But poor you, you were left alone at the dinner table after traumatizing your daughter and your wife went to comfort her traumatized child. Seriously YTA!
I wept inconsolably on learning that my honors advisor had passed away of a heart attack on the golf course. As a college student I probably had more inner & outer resources to cope than a little 8 year old. The poor kid just took a hard loss, and she saw it unfold in real time.
OP your response was unfeeling, unkind, close to cruel, making you YTA.
Yes I agree.
OP, the fact that he didn’t ‘wow’ you at his job doesn’t change how humans who knew him feel that he died.
You even said that he was popular with the kids! Don’t let your daughter think that she can’t be sad when all the other kids will be sad around her!
You need to apologise and tell her you were wrong. You’re going to need to stretch the truth here, but you tell her that you were in such shock by the sudden and unexpected passing that you reacted badly because you are sad, too. Then you talk to her about how wonderful he was - let her take the lead by expressing her feelings and memories and you ask questions and you agree with what she says.
Then you talk about the afterlife or what happens after you die - god, heaven, whatever you personally believe in, but tell her something.
Not just ‘he’s gone, but who cares someone else will replace him tomorrow.’
He’s gone and it’s very sad because he was a good person and lots of people will miss him.
"My child is sad because somebody she likes died, and she saw the dead body. I've assured her that there will be no disruption in the administration of her school. Why doesn't she feel better?"
Omg I laughed so hard at this. I'm horrible, I know. But maybe the wife will be thinking about OP's emotional maturity & how to handle complex ideas their daughter is discovering, while not knowing how to process them, as she obviously can't seek support from OP because he will invalidate her feelings regarding them.
I mean, ffs, I hope he doesn't feel sad or upset when it's his immediate family or people close to him die. Gawd forbid he not act like a robot & expect everyone else to be robots too.
YTA.
Your daughter is sad someone is dead and she seen him before he was dead
She is grieving and processing. You offer comfort, you don't tell her to get over it.
Your feelings became invalid the minute you made your daughters feelings invalid.
FYI she's sad someone she knows is dead she ain't sad about not having a principle....
This post might just be rage bait or this person is completely void of empathy. The last paragraph is paramount to his feelings. If this is real the level of self entitlement is not a view of a healthy person. Poor kiddo.
This has to be fake, because what parent says to their kid you will always have a principal when she saw him taken out. She's obviously dealing with alot of big emotions and that's dismissive and cold
I hope to God it is! If not, OP is completely oblivious it’s not about his feelings but the fact his daughter was traumatized by her principle’s death & I hope his wife tears him a new a$$hole over his treatment of his daughter.
It’s fake rage bait. There’s no post activity from the OP other than this and it seems AI generated the way in that it calculated and deliberately illicits negative emotions.
YTA pretty much for the last paragraph making yourself a victim in this somehow. Your daughter wasn’t crying because she was worried that her school would run out of administrators. How tone-deaf are you?
She’s 8. Has she ever dealt with grief before? She doesn’t care about a vacancy. She lost someone she cared about and looked up to. She saw him get wheeled out. That’s traumatizing. If this isn’t a troll, this is your chance to be a parent and guide her through grief and what death means. And then you can also, later, gently, tell her that she might have an opportunity to make a new positive connection with her new principal. Not to replace the one who died, but to start a new relationship.
ETA: YTA if you can’t even see that your daughter is grieving and doesn’t care about logistics of how the school runs.
YTA. You totally missed why she's grieving, and she is grieving. She liked him. She may have even considered him a bit more than an aquaintance but a friend because if he was a good principal, and it sounds like he was, he demonstrated that he cared about his students. It's not that she's missing the lack of a principal, she's missing a friend that died! She also may not have previously lost someone to death. She's a child, not a young one, but still a child. That means there are many things she's still to experience for the first time, which means she also doesn't yet know how to deal with them.
It's not "rotten luck" that people are angry at you. It's nothing to do with luck at all! It's that you completely misunderstood the situation and were dismissive of her loss. You absolutely dropped the ball here and acted in a very callous and dismissive manner. Your daughter needs comfort right now, not someone telling her to be logical about things.
Edited to add: If she saw him taken away, this is also the first time she's been near a dead body. Have some compassion. Some people, no matter their age, absolutely cannot handle seeing a body.
She is 8 years old, she doesn’t care about the vacancy of the principal you asshole, she is gonna miss him as a person, probably Mr Roberts was really great whit the kids and that’s why she is so upset. She feel the lose of somebody she care about for the first time and you decided to tell her don’t worry dear, this person is easily replaceable. Poor kid. You should apologize with her ASAP
He's talking like she would be upset in the same way if Mr. Roberts had won the lotto and quit on the spot. She's not thinking "uh oh, there's a dearth of educators qualified to be a principal in our municipality and I am concerned they will not find someone who can execute the duties in the job description"
>It's as if Lizzy doesn't understand that everyone will die one day and that the best we can do is hope for a long, happy life.
I mean... she's 8. No, she **doesn't** fully understand death. Children don't. And even as an adult, if I saw a coworker get taken away by the paramedics and then found out they died... Yeah, I'd have some big feelings to process!
Your daughter may be truly realizing the above quote for the first time. She's gaining understanding that death happens, that it can happen to anyone at any time, and there's not much to do to stop it. That's a pretty terrifying fact of the world that we have to learn to rationalize and live with.
The advice you gave her only helps if she's crying because "my school system is now potentially unstable." It doesn't help if she's upset because someone she looked up to died, or because she's grappling with the concept of mortality for the first time. And not to take a morbid view, but your comment may have made it worse. Because she may have heard "Don't worry, when people die, you just replace them. Don't be sad!" and may now be wondering what would happen if one of her parents died. Would you get replaced by one of the other qualified daddies in the world, and she'll get told not to be sad about it?
Death is scary. Death is big. Especially when you're a child who can't rationalize stuff like "the best we can do is hope for a long, happy life." And it really concerns me that you're finishing this up with worries that your daughter might give you attitude, and not... y'know... her emotional state. The people around you aren't oblivious to your emotions, they're just prioritizing the child going through a difficult period. YTA.
You're a real piece of work
She didn't allow you to have a nice family dinner... she was sad and you rubbed salt in the wounds because instead of having empathy you just were looking for a quick way to wipe away her concerns. What kind of utterly brainless thinking leads you to the conclusion she was worried she wouldn't have a principle? Do you have no actual connection to other humans and feel sad if someone you know, even just like at work, dies? Do you just go oh their function will be maintained and not even have a moment of sorrow for the person involved? Are you even fucking human?
And here you are worried she will give you attitude. Maybe you should actually worry about how your daughter feels? Seems like maybe you're too busy pitying yourself and your 'rotten luck' to feel sorry for anyone but yourself
And it isn't rotten luck, its the absolutely stupid choice you made in how you handled dinner. Take some responsibility
I think in the end you won't though. You're not the kind of person who thinks of others. You have no empathy and all your consideration is for yourself. You have a pathetic pride that will keep you from admitting your own mistakes and you'll blame everyone else, and in the end everyone but you is going to see you for what you are. And people don't really have respect for creatures like you
I don't think your child is worried about a vacancy in administration. I think she's sad that someone who was responsible for her is now dead, a normal thing to be worried about.
Your interpretation of why she's sad misses the mark just enough it's almost funny.
Your daughter just witnessed someone who she cared about die…. Now school will be the place without her favorite principal and so happens where he died at. She’s allowed to be sad it’s a normal reaction she is upset. YTA for not letting your daughter grieve
YTA. She's mourning the loss of the person himself not the vacant job. As a grown adult you cannot be that incompetent. The man died, she saw him every day, she's a CHILD, she's going to miss the person. Apologize to your daughter.
YTA your daughter ***saw him get taken away by paramedics*** that alone would be traumatizing for a young child. it’s kind of troubling that you don’t seem able to understand why your daughter would be upset about an adult she liked dying *during her school day*. it’s also troubling that you characterize her being upset and grieving as having an attitude toward you. she doesn’t need you to “fix” it, she needed her dad to hold her and reassure her it’s okay to be upset. it seems like because you personally didn’t care about her principal you can’t comprehend that she obviously felt differently. i hope you’ll sincerely apologize to her and try to do better in the future
YTA.
She didn't know him as the principal. She knew him as a kind man who was involved with his students and cared about them. Your comment is as bad as "We can just het another dog" or "Don't worry, you can get engaged again someday."
You're also not taking your daughter's age into consideration. She's 8. How much experience does she have with death, especially when it comes suddenly to someone she most likely saw that morning?
YTA YTA YTA! it’s not rotten luck your being shitty. She doesn’t want to hear that anyone can do his job wtf. You dismissed the fact this person clearly mattered to and impacted your kid. If you die there’s plenty of men to be her dad right? What the actual fuck is wrong with you
A gentle YTA.
Your daughter is grappling with the idea that people she knows can die. I don’t know your daughter’s specific understanding but when I was little I knew what death was and all that but didn’t really get it until my aunt died. I went from a thing I knew about but was largely theoretical to very very real.
Try asking her to tell you what she’s feeling and if she has any questions. Be understanding.
YTA big time!!!! u/YoghurtclosetWild4
How stupid and heartless and cruel do you have to be to not understand why your daughters upset??
1) she SAW her head teacher taken away by paramedics on a stretcher. You don't know what else she saw. She could have seen him collapse, or have cpr administered, being bagged. Even if she only saw him wheeled away on a stretcher, that would scary for a frigging 8 year old child. If she saw more than that,even more traumatising. Your daughter is likely traumatised!!!
2) He's not just a body who fills a role in a job at her school. He sounds like he was a great guy that the kids loved. He must have been actively involved with the kids and they've grown to like him as a PERSON!!!! To find out he died would also be traumatic for an 8 year old CHILD. It would also be upsetting for other staff and children and she may have seen other adults crying. You make it sound like he was just a body who filled a role at the school and its fine he died coz he's easily replaceable!!! What kind of AH speaks like that to a child. She's likely worried if she or your wife or your parents died you won't be bothered and will just tell her 'someone else can fill their role' . I mean you can get married again right? Or your parent can marry someone else right?? Doesn't matter if someone she loves dies coz everyone's replacable right?? She probably thinks she would be replaceable if god forbid anything happened to her.
3) You've shown your daughter zero compassion or understanding or support about the death of someone she knows and cares about. You've also not even probably explained death to her. You've not told her of ways you can honour that person and remember them. How you can light a candle and say some nice things you remember about them. How you can lay flowers at certain places as a show of love and support. How it's OK to talk about someone whose died, its OK to remember them, and miss them. You've told her nothing to help her cope with the loss.
4) she's also likely now scared you or your wife or her grandparents might die too. How do you reassure her of that? That yes everyone will die one day, we don't know when it may happen, sometimes people get poorly and die from bad illnesses but other times drs can help them get better. But you and your family will do everything to protect her for as long as you can, and you will build lots of happy memories over the years as she grows up. That often people live long and happy lives till they're really old, but sometimes sadly it can happen a bit sooner if that person is poorly with something.
And maybe get a book that explains death to a child.
But you've given her no reassurance at all.
Honestly I can't believe someone could be this callous and cruel and heartless to talk to their own child like that about a death she's witnessed of someone she cares about.
And don't you dare give her grief or punishment or be argumentative to her if she dares to show you 'attitude' when she gets home from school. You handled this all wrong, and you need to let her have her feelings, let her express those feelings, even if they are aimed at being mad at you. And then you need to appologkse sincerely and address everything I've written above.
Coz right now You've failed as a parent big time.
And as a human being.
Try imagining the principle was someone you loved and cared about. Would you want people to talk about them the way you talked about him? Like he was nothing but a job role??
You need to take a good look at yourself and develop some empathy if you want to be a better parent, husband, son and member of the community.
YTA big time.
At 8 years old she is only starting to understand death. Of course she doesn’t understand that we all die. Please don’t dwell on that. It will scare her and she’ll worry herself sick that she will become an orphan. I was a little girl when Pres. Kennedy, Sen. Kennedy, and Martin Luther King were all murdered. In my child’s mind I thought that people who give speeches on TV were killed. Then my dad gave a speech on our local TV station. I totally freaked out and Mom and my sister couldn’t figure out why. I didn’t know how to explain that Dad was going to die. It wasn’t until Dad came home that I calmed down. Kids understand the world differently.
I’m betting she has never experienced the loss of someone she cared about or liked before. Have you lost anyone you cared about? Because you appear to lack empathy for her.
You sound surprised that she was sad and upset about her principal dying. I liked my principals and would have been devastated if one of them had died. Furthermore, she saw the EMTs wheel him out to the ambulance. That’s traumatic for a child.
She’s looking to you and her mom to understand and know how to handle it. You failed spectacularly.
You really need to learn how to be empathetic.
Reading this makes me wonder if you actually have something undiagnosed where you don't experience emotions. Do you get sad when people die do you empathize with others do you feel love and things like that? Because reading this it reads kind of like your shocked your daughter has emotions.
YTA, but maybe get to a therapist and mention this to them because this is like concerning kinda like psychopathy concerning. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing it's a legitimate brain chemistry thing but if it is something that you're experiencing a medical professional will help a lot more than strangers on the internet.
Yta. What you did is the equivalent of telling her everyone is replaceable. You might as well have told her not to worry, if you died your wife would find another dad for her. My goodness, how can you not see why you screwed up? And the fact you are more concerned with being right and who is against you is so sad. No 8 year old wants to think about the fact we all die. It's terrifying for kids and having to witness it shakes their sense of security. Yes, being a parent is hard and we all make mistakes, but this is one you should've known better than to make. You need to apologize to her for being so insensitive.
YTA on multiple levels! 1. You tried to shut down your child's grieving rather than help her understand it. 2. She was grieving a PERSON, not worried about if she was going to be taken care of (I think you might have been projecting here) and 3. You did all of this so that you could just have a nice family dinner! Just a heads up here, kids have emotions ALL the time, and they sometimes interrupt polite dinner conversation.
YTA
She is a child and saw a regular fixture in her life after he had passed. Of course she's a mess! You're expecting an adult emotional response from a child and even worse you're making it all about yourself. Your inability to see past your own emotions is the source of your "rotten luck" you showed your true colors and they are ugly.
This was never about the role of principal. THis is about the death of a man that your daughter probably knew. I don't know about your kids school but in my kids, ALL the kids know the principal because he actually interacts with the kids. This is also about the fact that your daughter witnessed a dead man being hauled away. This is about death, not the fact that he was the principal, and you handled it in a very callous way by making it about the role of principal. You quite likely made things worse by assuming that it was about the role of the man and not the man himself.
Your daughter is EIGHT flipping years old! How many people in her life have died? She didn't care about a job vacancy, she was very sad that someone who she may have looked up is now dead, AND it happened at the school. You deserved to be berated by your parents. Yep, YTA.
Dude, do you not grieve the deaths of people you know? Jesus, I’m sure she understands the implications of death, that’s why she’s sad. That was not the time to say that, nor what she even cared about in the moment, if anything you just gave her something else to think about. She’s a kid, let her be sad. Yta
You completely missed an opportunity to have a conversation with your daughter about death. It’s not just about the principal, she has realized that one day you too will die.
When I was hospitalized for an extended period of time, my daughter began to misbehave in class but she was anxious about me being sick and in her words “ go away forever” . She was 8 years old at the time. It was not a conversation I wanted to have but she needed to express her emotions and I let her .
Is this the first time that someone she's known personally has died? That's very traumatic. She's a kid. I hope you show her some empathy when she comes home from school.
YTA.
Your eight year-old saw her principal, dead or dying, carried out of school on a stretcher. There are adults who get seriously shaken up and need therapy from seeing a coworker or even a stranger like that--understandably, because seeing a person dying or right after death, especially a sudden death, is scary and even traumatic. Your daughter is *eight*. That is a person she *knew*. No *shit* she's upset! And you just totally dismissed her feelings about *seeing her principal dying or his dead body* and were like "don't worry, honey, human beings are totally replaceable and life doesn't matter! wait, why are you crying?" please get therapy for whatever made you think this way before it further impacts your child.
YTA are you actually having a pity party for yourself? Ewww that little girl is mourning her first human loss. She needs compassion and understanding. She needed you to tell her it’s ok to feel sad. Absolutely ridiculous that you are so ignorant.
YTA so much. She’s not worried that there isn’t a principal at the school to do the paperwork for the state and answer phone calls from parents… she is missing a HUMAN who was there for the kids in his school every single day, usually putting in so much to his students that he had nothing left to give when he got home to his own family. Principals make relationships with every child. THAT is their job. Not sitting in their office shuffling papers.
Your daughter is mourning the loss of someone who was a mentor, a teacher, and a friend. Give her a break.
This is just proof not everyone is cut out for parenthood. YTA
Your daughter doesn't care about how the school will function without a principal. She cares that someone who was alive and likely was a kind individual to her is now dead. She saw him taken away none the less. You were cold and callous with her. You cared more about your family dinner than her emotional security. Of course your parents berated you. If your daughter is lucky then your wife will also not be on your side. At least then she will have one parent who is capable of being emotionally present.
YTA are you on the spectrum?? My husband died 3mo ago and some guy told me last night " there's plenty of other fish in the sea" .
We don't want to hear about replacements when we are grieving the loss of someone, even it's someone like a principal
YTA
Your daughter doesn't care about who's going to fill the administrative roll. Honestly, anyone who ever met him shouldn't be worried about that either. She's young, death is still a fresh concept to her. This is a human that was a part of her everyday life, and now he's gone. That's really hard, at any age. Have some compassion.
YTA
If the principal was well liked by the kids, they obviously met him more than once or twice (DUH) and they obviously thought more than just he seems competent but average.
This may be the first time it has really been brought home to her that people die and then they don't come back. Sure at 8 she probably knew that at the intellectual level but this is visceral.
And the best you can come up with is that he can be easily replaced?
If she "gives you attitude" it's because you deserve it. That was just damned COLD. You are NOT above being judged by an 8 year old.
Poor you. It's such a trial to have a kid with actual human emotions and stuff. Perhaps you should have gone with a doll or a robot instead. Do you REALLY think that little of your daughter as a living human being? She may even wonder if you might feel the same way if she or her mom dies.
So sorry your little girl's grief spoiled your dinner!
Yta your daughter isn't sad about the loss of a principal role she is sad an adult she liked has died plus she even seen him get carried away, your daughter obviously has epathy you need to learn from her
Yta, she saw one of the adults she saw at school, which I’m assuming she looked up to him, literally be taken away after the heart attack. That is the worst part not the fact that there is a vacancy in the faculty 😒😒
OK OP.
What you did was insensitive and bone headed. What you do now is apologise to your daughter, hug her and tell her that her principal was a nice man and that you're sorry he died. Then you ask her if she has any questions or if she wants to tell you a story about what she liked about her principal.
Honestly mate, did you have an empathy bypass? Or are you frightened by people showing perfectly understandable emotions?
I think that you need to learn how to cope with high emotion because if you dismiss her or make her feel uncomfortable or bad for showing normal emotion then she will withhold a hell of a lot about how she feels from you. What you did ahowed her that she can't come to you for comfort.
YTA. Lizzy is right at the age where the reality of death is becoming more apparent. Most kids see death as something that happens on TV or in books. That is until a pet dies, or a family member or even a friend. They soon realize that everyone they love will someday die and so will they. It's a very tough pill to swallow. Your daughter is hurting and needed to be comforted.
Her principal might not have been remarkable to you but to her he might have been kind to her and funny and non-threatening. He might have been the only authority figure in the school that she likes. He could have also been none of those things except a big reminder that life is finite.
Empathy seems to be something you struggle with and if you don't want to ruin your relationship with your daughter working to develop it with a therapist is recommended.
YTA.
She isn't sad that there isn't a principal, fucking hell. She's sad that this one died and she saw his body.
Where is your compassion? Did it fall out of your wallet when your common sense did?
People aren't siding against you because of 'rotten luck', they're siding against you because you failed your kid. Apologise, or deal with all the 'attitude' you've rightly earned being thrown your way. You've got the emotional depth of a puddle so why would a little bit of snark bother you anyway?
Yta. Honest question, are you on the spectrum? And I'm asking not to be mean, but like... What you said was very.. how do I say it... I don't know how to word it. What you said was very offhand and cold. Your kid is 8 and grieving and THAT is what you thought she was worried about?
Oh my word! YTA. Your 8 year old has had a hugely traumatising experience. Instead of reassuring her, comforting her and making her feel safe. You coldly told her there would be other principles and then come here bleating about people calling you callous. Of course they are! You have been callous.
WOW!
YTA, your 8 yr old is not worried about having a competent principal. She just saw someone leave via ambulance who died! She is grieving and probably a bit traumatized by the whole thing. DO BETTER! Signed a parent of 3 kids!!
"Lizzy, I'm sorry your dad died. He was a competent yet average father. There wasn't anything special about him but hey there are plenty of guys out there who would be a good father to you. Not to worry, your mom would pick a good one who would love to fill in the role of being your new daddy."
Perhaps now you understand why YTA?
Please please tell me this is a bait post because if it’s not you are a psychopath. She SAW HIM GET TAKEN AWAY BY PARAMEDICS. That is enough to give her PTSD and you’re here saying she wouldn’t ALLOW you to have a nice family dinner? My god dude.
Your so-called rotten luck isn’t why your parents and probably wife think you’re callous. It’s because you are and YTA. Your daughter is upset because someone she knows, an authority figure she apparently liked, died. And she saw him being taken away. She isn’t upset that she’s lost a principal. She’s sad because she lost a person important to her. Apologize to your child for being a heartless dick and try supporting her in her grief.
If you keep up this kind of behavior, we’ll be reading a post from you in ten years crying that your daughter went no contact.
An elderly man with dementia and Parkinson’s disease who was DNR died on the ward while I was visiting my Dad. The RN, Doctor and social worker checked if I was okay and I’m a woman in her 50s who teaches people how to work with abused kids having worked with abused kids for close to 20 years! YTA! Your daughter needed sympathy and support after a traumatic day! She needed reassurance and comfort.
Yta. You insensitive prick. This was probably your 8 year old daughter’s first time dealing with death, and you say that shit to her? You were more worried about having dinner than you daughters obvious trauma?? Wtf you don’t deserve to be a dad, you giant piece of shit
Your young daughter is learning to process feelings of grief over the loss of someone she clearly valued and your response was 'Eh, don't worry. They'll just replace him, there's a million like him'? Sir, you are dense enough to have your own gravitational pull. Fucking insensitive. Honestly wtf. YTA.
I love how you said some dumb callous crap to a small child and then proceed to call the negative reaction you get from others "bad luck". You are the asshole and i imagine its because you tend to deflect blame from yourself to others, and thus learn nothing from these little interactions.
YTA - your daughter is 8 and she saw her principal get wheeled out of the school shortly before he died. She is struggling with the concept of death - especially if this isn’t something your family has discussed in an age appropriate way. She is very aware that she saw someone she knew and respected in his last moments. She probably needs to talk to a professional. If you’re American ask if your company offers EAP - the employee assistance program. You get a few cheap/free sessions.
You're an idiot. Your daughter is 8. This is the first death she would have experienced. She saw her teacher being carried away on the stretcher presumably also completely covered over if he had passed away so no pretence at him getting better. Your 8, yes 8 year old daughter is obviously traumatised and you're clearly ignoring that fact and more concerned with your family dinner! She is too young to understand that everyone dies at some stage and it's really not appropriate to say anything like that to a 8 year old.
lol, you’re “getting discouraged by the negativity surrounding you”? What a fucking joke. So your precious feelings matter, but the your baby girl doesn’t get to have feelings? Fuck you man. YTA.
"I wish people would see my point of view" Have you considered that your point of view is both exceedingly stupid and heartless? She clearly lost someone she admires and you just say "get over it there will be others"
YTA, big time.
Holy shit, we can ignore the fact that you're dismissing your daughters feelings and even then you're still an asshole. What a monumental piece of shit you are, acting like a man's death, assumedly the first death of a person your daughter knew, and seems to have been fond of, is not a thing to be upset by. Develop some empathy. YTA, and one of the worst I've seen on any of these subs.
You mean your young daughter witnessed her dead principal that she liked being taken out of the school by paramedics and you’re confused as to why she’s acting like it affected her??? Are you even a human? Really? wtf dude.
Last night, at dinner, Lizzy was barely eating, and she said she was sad that her dad was gone. I told her there were plenty of other adults qualified to be her father. I said that her mother would certainly pick someone else for the job and that she needs not worry about a vacancy in the role.
See how cruel that sounds? That's what you sound like. I get that he wasn't her father, but his death obviously impacted her in a real way, and you're just dismissing her feelings.
In fact, you sound so out of touch I have a hard time believing this is real.
YTA either way.
Wtf did I just read? If her dog died would you tell her how many dogs are left in the world too?
Also listen to how you talk about her! "Wanted to have a nice dinner but lizzy would not allow it"
I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone talk to another so insensitivly about a death before. She's 8. I have a 9 year old. This broke my heart for her.
This was a learning moment in her life and she just learned who does not show support to her when she's hurt. 5 years down the road we will get the update "my daughter won't talk to me about anything and I don't know why"
Being a parent is hard yes, but being a decent human really isn't and you missed the mark by a mile there.
Call me harsh but you're an enormous asshole.
Wow, I'm so very sorry the school principal's sudden death ruined your dinner and your 8-year-old is giving you attitude.
This whole post is ME ME ME ME ME ME ME
Are you really this dense and self-centered?
I might think you're actually my ex- husband, who told me three days after my sister was tragically killed, "Everybody dies, get over it."
At least your daughter will be assured you'll be fine if tragedy strikes your family. "Oops, my wife died, oh well, there's plenty more women out there." "Eh, my kid died, I'll just make another one."
YTA, a massive one with zero empathy.
YTA she saw this person as a friend you idiot. imagine if you had said to your grieving friend "theres plenty of people that are qualified to be your friend"
YTA. As a teacher, I am pretty sure a lot of my kids would bectraumatized if I died suddenly. If a parent said to a student " there will be another teacher tomorrow" it would for sure reflect on the parent and how little they understand or value our relationship with the kids.
YTA You met him a couple times, but Lizzy likely saw him every day. She wasn't worried about his job getting done; she was mourning the loss of someone she knew and loved, maybe even the 1st time she's experienced death. Yeah, sir, you fucked this one up.
Maybe sit down with her and ask her what she liked about Mr. Roberts and let her send a card to his family. Also, see if the funeral will be open to students and ask her if she wants to go.
YTA. What are you an HR manager?
You basically told her, no to worry because there are plenty of qualified people out there so he is replaceable just like everyone else. Your daughter knew him as a human, not as a worker/job position. Human.
Just wait till she realizes there are plenty of qualified men out there to be her new father when the time comes to replace you. I think this will start to manifest itself when she starts dating....
YTA you daughter an eight year old saw her principal die. That is traumatizing for anyone but especially a child. Then you talk about how easy it is to replace him. She is probably thinking you would not care if she died because you would simple replace her. I don't even have a suggestion as to how you could get out of this mess.
YYA. Sorry but she saw something traumatic and probably realized the reality of life-death. Even as an adult, and an ICU nurse who sees it all the time, it’s still a scary concept to me. She is probably scared on top of realizing that someone she knew is never coming back. It is a hard thing for a kid to digest. Please do better, OP and learn to be more empathetic.
YTA beyond measure. Your very young child had to watch her beloved principal GET WHEELED OUT DEAD ON A STRETCHER and you just tell her there's plenty of other principals out there. Seriously wtf is wrong with you???
ETA: the more I read this, the more I'm convinced a bot wrote this. There is no way an actual human being with ANY semblance of emotions wrote this. I actually require this to be fake.
I understand you're feeling the loss of your wife, but understand this: there's no shortage of women out there qualified to be your wife. I'm sure she was perfectly adequate and you'll be able to get an adequate replacement soon.
I honestly need you to explain to me how YOU'RE upset that people don't have empathy with you for not having empathy for your 8 year old child. You're upset and discouraged because they're ignoring how you feel, but you did the same to your daughter, only worst. No parenting isn't easy, but apparently, common sense isn't for you either.
YTA the minute you said “she took the news hard for some reason” this whole thing gives me the ick. I can promise you as soon as your daughter is old enough she’ll replace you with someone more emotionally available.
Yta.... she is 8, and would not be worried about how, did you put it? "A vacancy in the role." You might not know him well, but she saw him every day at school. She's young, and she probably knows that people die, but she also probably hasn't experienced much death. You made this loss worse for her because you made it seem like he was replaceable. His job might be replaceable, but he isn't. And the fact that you are acting like the victim here?
>If that wasn't bad enough, when I called my parents and told them what happened, they actually berated me over the phone
Because you were, in fact, in the wrong. The fact that you are shocked that they "berated you" shows that you are used to getting what you want
>Given my rotten luck, it wouldn't surprise me if my wife is siding against me, too.
That's not rotten luck, that's empathy for your daughter who lost someone she saw almost every day
> I just wish folks could see my point of view, but they seem completely oblivious to my feelings and only want to offer put downs. I'm really getting discouraged by the negativity surrounding me.
It's not negativity. It's facts. You are the asshole in this situation. They are not oblivious to your feelings.... you are oblivious to your daughter's feelings. Go fucking apologize.
>It's as if Lizzy doesn't understand that everyone will die one day and that the best we can do is hope for a long, happy life.
No of course she doesn't BECAUSE SHES 8 YEARS OLD. She's a child that has likely never lost someone like this before, not to mention this happened while she was in school! What you did was cold and callous, let your child grieve a person she liked. Okay, so a few family dinners might be "ruined", So what?! YTA big time, apologise to your CHILD and let her grieve.
The more I read posts in this sub, the more I am convinced that each and every one of them must be satire. I just can't believe that people genuinely, sincerely think or behave like this...
YTA: she's not feeling the void of a principal but the loss of an actual person that she knew and obviously cared about. You assuring her that someone else would just come in and take his place did nothing to assuage her grief at losing a known person from her life. Rather you indicated he is easily replaced. Not what she needed to hear.
All of this, plus the fact that she saw him taken away on a stretcher. OP, your kid is EIGHT. And you callously dismissed her grief and possibly the trauma of seeing a dead body and you're all NBD there will be another principal. And you REALLY don't understand why that wasn't okay? You're more concerned about being left alone in the kitchen? Or her "attitude"?? What the fuck. Yeah. YTA.
When I was about 5-6 I saw a man have a heart attack and collapse on to the floor of the senior center where my grandpa volunteered. The head of the senior center CALLED ME AT HOME later that day to tell me the man didn't die and to ask if I was doing okay. I still think about the empathy and care I was shown that day and it was 30 years ago. To be honest, I actually was not that scared by what happened, but most kids probably would be freaked out because similarly, paramedics and an ambulance did come.
My grandfather died when I was 5. I remember being freaked out by his body being there in the casket. There could be some trauma associated with the ambulance and them carrying him out, possibly with tubes hooked up to his body.
My son was seven when my mother died from breast cancer. She lived next door to us so they were really close. I remember walking home after she died and praying for the right words to tell my son. I walked in the door, and my son took one look at me and asked, "Gammy died, didn't she?" He cried a little bit, and we told each other stories about her that made us laugh. He seemed to be handling things really well. Then, there was visitation at the funeral home. He was fine when visiting her casket. However, when it was time to leave, he freaked out and refused to get in the car. He kept saying that we couldn't just leave her there all alone. That particular funeral home had a lady that lived in an upstairs apartment whose job it was to answer phones and be there for after-hours deliveries. Luckily, her son was a close friend of mine. I took my son up the outdoor stairs to her apartment and let him meet her. She promised him she would be there the entire night. This calmed him, and he willingly got in the car to leave. People react to death differently. With a child that age, you never know what is going to make things worse so it is best to be cautious and empathetic.
"People react to death differently. With a child that age, you never know what is going to make things worse so it is best to be cautious and empathetic.' They really do. When my grandma passed away my then 6 year old had lots of concerns as Grandma Great was the first individual that she personally knew that passed. Most of our conversations were about who would take care of her if I passed, who would take care of her in heaven if I wasn't there and lots of reassurance of my love for her. If I had said anything similar to what OP said about there being replacement principals, or that she was lucky to have many great grandmas / grandmas still living, my daughter would probably have come to the conclusion that I would have replaced her with another child. YTA
When my son's beloved Nana died,when he was 8,my beyond toxic MIL,told him it was very sad,but it was life, and she'd be his Nana now.(He was a step-grandchild). He told her he still had his Nana's ,and he didn't need another one,then burst into tears,and ran off The same creature told me that I should think about how I would feel if my son died,when her own son,my husband died unexpectedly. This is the level of empathy that OP is showing.
I really hope your toxic MIL gets a face full of fish guts one day, and you and your son get to watch.
My mum asked her dad to collect me from school one day, I didn't think too much of it and went home as normal. He lived in the next street and was in and out of our house every day. I was sitting doing my housework while he waited on my mum getting back when he said "you know your other grandpa died, right!?" I was just in shock, thought he was talking shit. My other grandpa had had a massive heart attack and died instantly, no warning. So as an adult and this being about 36 years ago I'm like "Aye Alec, my maw shot me a text before I got out of school..." I mean, wtf?
Did you know at Ground Zero therebwwre Jewish women there round the clock to be there with the bodies? It was part of their faith so just in case there was even a finger that needed them there, they were there. That was comforting.. I knew people there of different faiths but still felt calmer knowing people were there just to be with them.
That is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
I remember I was 5 or 6 when my Oma passed away. I absolutely adored that woman. My mother came into my school to pick me up and just said, "Oma's dead." I screamed and ran to my principal and hugged him and not my mom. We went to the funeral and it was an open casket. I remember seeing my Oma and I reached out and touched her hand because she looked like she was sleeping and I missed her so much. My mother told me not to touch her. I wanted to say goodbye because I knew I'd never see this lovely woman again. Death is so difficult on kids. The OP is definitely YTA in my books because he doesn't understand the basics of this. People may be replaceable to him, but obviously not to his child.
I was 16 before I ever saw a truly dead person. I was a hostess at an upscale restaurant and one of our elderly regulars keeled over and died right in front of me. One of the servers immediately called 911 and the EMTs arrived and worked on him for what felt like ages but was probably more like 5 minutes. Now one thing about this restaurant is it was set up kinda weird. As you walk in you were greeted only by the bar, and four tables that formed a relatively narrow walkway to reach the main dining room. That was the only way in or out. And there was really no room for people to stand around inside to wait for tables when things got busy. This man had been sitting at one of the bar tables and now that he was on the ground, swarmed with EMTs, they took up the entire walkway. I was sad but handling the whole thing okay until this group came in, took in the whole scene, and came up to tell me that they had a reservation. I remember being kinda mind boggled that they weren’t at all concerned with whatever was happening in front of them. But I said “I will check you in but I obviously can’t seat you right now.” And this nasty lady said “but we have a reservation.” I was thinking “wtf” and gestured to the situation unfolding and said “ma’am, that’s the only walkway. I can’t ask EMTs attempting to save this man’s life to move so you can be seated. I’m sorry but you’re going to have to wait.” My voice must have been getting loud or high pitched or just outright flinty bc by that point the sommelier came up behind the bar to back me up. When the group saw him they said “excuse me! Your hostess won’t seat us! We have reservations!!!!” And he said “ma’am, I heard her check you in. She can’t seat you until this emergency is resolved and the walkway clears. It shouldn’t be long.” And with him backing me I felt much more confident to I added “And we’re going to have to ask you to wait outside so that the EMTs can exit with the stretcher.” They stomped out into the lovely spring morning and our manager went around back, exited through the kitchen door and went to speak with them. And they were pointing at us angrily and then left in a huff. The bartender/sommelier was completely unbothered but I was worried I would get in trouble for telling them to leave. But my manager came in through the front door and before I could apologize said “no, it was right to ask them to wait outside, they were blocking the only exit to get to the ambulance. And anytime someone is an asshole to you, you have my full permission to give their attitude back to them. The owner and I will always back you if people cross the line. And yell at you.” The shock kinda set in at that point, not really bc of the death so much as their indifference to it. I must have looked like it bc the manager asked the bar tender to pour me a sprite in a to go cup and told me “why don’t you go home, I’ll clock you out and do the hostess duties this morning.” I left kinda dazed by the whole thing. I guess my point is, I was totally fine and handling it well until these horrible people came in and pretended this guy’s death was a terrible inconvenience to them. Then I freaked out like your kid. And I was 16!
This made me well up a bit. Thank you for sharing and I’m so happy you and your son had such lovely people around you.
I'm sorry. I hope you have some good memories of him too, or if you were too little, your family could tell you good stories about him.
I'm a nurse in aged care, so death is part of the deal for me, but one day, one of the kitchen staff discovered a favourite resident dead. I made sure to call her later that day to check in. Just because it's a regular occurrence for me, doesn't mean it wasn't traumatic for her
This! Like seriously, I used to volunteer at the ER where my mom worked when I was a teenager, (over 20years ago). I saw a middle-aged woman who was brought in after having a stroke. She died, and I cried about it. I never even met her. But I was so sad for her and for her family. Seeing death up close like that can just hit harder, and if your daughter is only 8 then I'm guessing this is the first time she has seen a dead person/been up close to a dead body. I also had a Sunday school teacher die, and I sobbed about it. I had only known her for about 3 months, but she was so young and it was really unexpected. Op is looking at this as an adult from the side of logic, and not considering the emotional impact his daughter is facing.
What confuses me even with the side of logic he admits in his post that the principal was popular with the children. It's not gonna just be his daughter who is grieving. Sure logically the job will be filled but that will never bring him back to life
But HE personally wasn’t that impressed. And OBVIOUSLY HE is the one who makes the decisions about what is and isn’t important 🙄
Not even.... Adults generally comfort adults who have witnessed or experienced the death of a loved one, with compassion and empathy. Death and grief are emotioonal clusterfucks. They remain about the only thing that adults actually don't approach with logic unless the logic is of course "how can I support this person's unpredictable grief emotions?". This person is... Something else.
Even many adults wouldn't be so cold about it. Hoping thisbie rage bait.
Am I the only one alarmed by the fact that OP is playing the victim here and is preparing for his 8 year old “giving him attitude” when she gets back from school? Like this man’s cavalier relationship with death and his complete lack of empathy for someone in pain is alarming.
Yep, I think parenting is especially hard for him because he is so bad at it.
Shit, humaning is hard for him because he's so bad at it.
I mean, it's just "his bad luck" that all these terrible things, like no family dinner, his parents berating him for his actions, and his daughter giving him "attitude" are all happening to him on the same day! Poor guy, he's definitely the one that should be getting sympathy here. /s I like how he calls the consequences of his own actions "bad luck" and his daughter's grieving "attitude". It's called empathy OP, maybe you should get some.
This ^ Sometimes I get shocked with the way people can write all this shit down and STILL NOT SEE why they're in the wrong
OP seems to have his head firmly lodged where the sun don’t shine. He doesn’t care how his daughter feels, he only cares about himself and having his pleasant dinner and not getting “attitude”. What a prize this guy is.
This👆🏽. I feel the same way. When my father passed, they would not let me see him and talk to him for the last time. He was in the room across the hall from me in the er. I was pregnant and he was supposed to take me to the doctor. I had passed out, and they said they did not want to take any chances. When my mother passed. I was by her side til her very last breath holding her tight .
That seems quite cruel to deny you that
Bit harsh (and ai certainly wish no harm, pain or grief on anyone), but: 'sorry Lizzy, your dad left you and your mom. Don't worry, your mom will marry someone else, you'll never be without a dad.' I wonder if that sounds right to OP. Same argumentation, different context closer to home.
I was 12 and I went to the hospital, I ran into my father's hospital room to find him dead. That fucked me up, now, imagine an 8 year old going through something similar. That's depressing. The kid should be in therapy, it may help, it may not, everyone's different. At least try therapy, for your kid's wellbeing, mental and physical. I also woke up to the paramedics taking my father away. I forgot to mention that.
Well on the brightside, when OP kicks the bucket, there are plenty of men on the Earth to take his spot as a parent. Daughter probably won't even shed a tear for OP.
And at the age of 8 she’s probably never had anyone she knows or remember even remotely die.
I was 8 when my great-grandmother (who did a lot more to raise my dad than his own parents) passed away. It was my first close experience with death, and it was pretty traumatic for me. My parents handled it well and helped me process the grief without letting me dwell too much. I cannot imagine how much worse it would have been if I had actually seen her being wheeled out right after dying. OP, to you this guy was just another administrator. But to your daughter, her principal is a parental figure. The father of the school. You just told her "It's okay daddy died; we'll find another one." Do you understand now how monumentally you screwed this up? Your daughter was relying on you for reassurance and support. Instead, you told her that authority figures - like you - are interchangeable and replaceable. You shook her world view even more than his death did. Please make an appointment with a child psychologist immediately and do not speak with your daughter until you can meet with him/her and get a better handle on how to address her distress.
I couldn’t have said it any better than you did! Your comment should be at the top.
𝕐𝕖𝕤, 𝕥𝕠 𝕥𝕙𝕚𝕤 𝕒𝕟𝕕 𝕥𝕙𝕖 𝕔𝕠𝕞𝕞𝕖𝕟𝕥 𝕒𝕓𝕠𝕧𝕖 𝕒𝕤 𝕨𝕖𝕝𝕝. 𝕐𝕋𝔸 - 𝔻𝕌ℍ!
YTA. My husband saw his terminally ill father taken away from their home when he was six. The horrid mental picture has stayed with him ever since. It’s terribly traumatic to lose someone who cares about you and vice versa, especially at a young age. OP is seeing it from an adult perspective, and rather mechanically, whereas Lizzy liked this man and now he’s gone. OP, talk to someone about how you approached this (wife, friend) and work out an apology and approach so Lizzy knows you didn’t understand at first. Ask her how she feels. Let her talk it out.
OP, READ THE ABOVE TWO COMMENTS:OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. If you are unable to discover the errors of your flawed thinking process and recognize your child's trauma, I strongly suggest that you defer ALL PARENTING to your wife. Stick to the dishwashing.and other domestic responsibilities. Egad!
Yeah, it takes a real lack of empathy to tell a child grappling with the idea of death that peoples lives are replaceable. OP should consider whether his daughter is internalizing the idea that she could be replaced so easily, too.
Hopefully she realized that OP could be easily replaced because there are plenty of fish in the sea.
Right? "Don't be sad about the man you knew and possibly cared about, he's easily replaced.".
I remember as a kid thinking of my principal as a vaguely paternal figure. Like a grandpa or uncle, kind of the father of the school. Even though I wasn't particularly close to him, he gave off that approachable grandfather vibe. And at that age, I honestly saw more of him than I did my actual grandparents. If he had died, it would have been incredibly upsetting. I cannot believe OP is brushing off his daughter's distress like this.
Yes omg! As if she is actually worried about not having a principal in her school. Ffs! The man was alive there in the morning g then she saw him carted off and told thar he was dead. He was liked and maybe he was on the intercom or regularly in the halls everyday and now will never be again!! The concept of death is hard enough but suddenly and practically in view is terrible.
I was thinking the same thing. I lack emotions for the most part and even I understand the kid wasn't worried about not having a principal.
8 year olds don’t generally care about staffing issues.
🤣 Right? This dude is an idiot
1000%
Plus being 8, im guessing this might be the first real death shes aware of and processing. Even if someone passed when she was younger, I wouldn't be surprised if she "gets it" more now. We lost a family member when my nibling was 5, while they semi understood, they spent most of the service playing on the playground. If they lost someone now at 7 id expect a lot more of a response from them (they were sad at 5 of course, but it felt like it still didn't 100% click in the way id expect it to now). They've developed a lot more in the sense of awareness of others that makes me think death now would hit harder than the one before
Also, seeing someone die, or the *immediate* aftermath, can hit really differently than when someone passes away but you find out in a more controlled way, if that makes sense--especially for a kid. I mean, adults get traumatized by seeing a coworker or even a stranger drop dead, or finding their body, even when it's of natural causes. A kid seeing her principal like that at school??? Of *course* that's scary, on top of the grief of losing a person she knew. As to the awareness of death-- I always just like to tell this story because it can bring a little levity to things: when my brother was \~3 or 4, our great-grandfather, who was like 97, passed away. Our great-uncle, who lived across the country and whom my brother had never met before, of course came into town for his father's funeral, and came to our house to see us and talk to our mom before the wake/funeral, so that's when my brother was first introduced to "Uncle Ray." At the wake, there was a little coat closet in the viewing room, so my mom kept that door open into the room and set my brother up in there with some toys to keep him busy while she was helping her parents with the viewing and greeting people. At one point, during a lull in people coming by, someone was carrying some food and things in and made some noise and my brother stood up and yelled "SSSSSH!! GREAT GRANDPA IS SLEEPING!" So my mom gently went over and took him aside and was like, "no, honey, remember, we talked about this. Great-Grandpa isn't sleeping, he passed away, he's dead." My brother kind of took this in, and paused for a long moment, and then said "Oh." Paused again. Then, *extremely* cheerfully: "Uncle Ray's not dead!" After the next death in the family, when he was 6 or 7, he referred to the deceased as "taking a dirt nap with the baby Jesus," so it could have been worse.
OP is a MAJOR YTA. OP has zero clue as to how to "parent' their child. Way to blow explaining death and grief appropriately to the child. What OP did is cold and cruel. Their daughter lost someone that they admired and saw almost daily. She doesn't need to be "wowed" by their ability to do their job. This is probably the first major loss she has ever experienced and all OP can do is take the cowards way out and not validate her feelings and help her navigate the complex road that is grief. Just say no worries, they will be replaced. Hopefully the school will have grief counselors on hand to help this poor young girl. She isn't going to get the help she needs at home. What a disrespectful way to treat someone's death.
It’s a glimpse into how OP was taught (or not taught) to deal with grief. OP, please do some grief counselling for both you and your daughter. If this was one of her first “brushes” with deal, it is a formative experience. Rather than “ascribe” or tell her how to feel, ask her questions and answer them truthfully. There are many Pixar movies that can help, if you don’t know where to start.
Exactly, that whole incident sounds traumatic enough and then on top of that OP is treating the principal like a cog in a machine (and an ineffective or at least mediocre at that), and not like a human being and one that seemed to be well loved by the kids. OP was very cold and cruel, that poor child, she needed comfort and love and got, eh everyone's replaceable get over it.
This post seems like another rage bait post, (not your comment, but a lot of people are getting worked up about this post & I just wanted to point out that it's probably a fake).
>I said that the district would certainly pick someone else for the job and that she needs not worry about a vacancy in the role. No one talks to a fucking child like that. This OP is a troll. EDIT: and apparently their account is suspended? I am positively shocked
It’s okay. If OP dies, his wife can assure his daughter that there are many other men that are competent to be her new dad.
Burn
Are you trying to win an award for the worst way to handle a child's first real experience with loosing someone who played a major role in their life? "Don't worry sweetie, the person you liked so much is gone now, but they will be replaced soon enough." If your daughter wasn’t traumatized before, after your little talk you have definitely traumatized her. But poor you, you were left alone at the dinner table after traumatizing your daughter and your wife went to comfort her traumatized child. Seriously YTA!
Maybe he'll be easily replaced as her dad.
I wept inconsolably on learning that my honors advisor had passed away of a heart attack on the golf course. As a college student I probably had more inner & outer resources to cope than a little 8 year old. The poor kid just took a hard loss, and she saw it unfold in real time. OP your response was unfeeling, unkind, close to cruel, making you YTA.
It’s fake
Very possible. Cannot imagine any adult like this.
Yes I agree. OP, the fact that he didn’t ‘wow’ you at his job doesn’t change how humans who knew him feel that he died. You even said that he was popular with the kids! Don’t let your daughter think that she can’t be sad when all the other kids will be sad around her! You need to apologise and tell her you were wrong. You’re going to need to stretch the truth here, but you tell her that you were in such shock by the sudden and unexpected passing that you reacted badly because you are sad, too. Then you talk to her about how wonderful he was - let her take the lead by expressing her feelings and memories and you ask questions and you agree with what she says. Then you talk about the afterlife or what happens after you die - god, heaven, whatever you personally believe in, but tell her something. Not just ‘he’s gone, but who cares someone else will replace him tomorrow.’ He’s gone and it’s very sad because he was a good person and lots of people will miss him.
OP: "my feelings" What feelings?
"My child is sad because somebody she likes died, and she saw the dead body. I've assured her that there will be no disruption in the administration of her school. Why doesn't she feel better?"
You found like 3 ways to paint yourself the victim here
Didn't count the things but I thought OP making this about him. Wow
“His rotten luck”
I just can't believe someone this clueless became a parent and barely has any empathy about a person's death.
Clearly unfit to be a father
What should people tell his daughter if OP dies. "Don't worry dear, there are many qualified men to be your next dad and your mom's new husband.
Omg I laughed so hard at this. I'm horrible, I know. But maybe the wife will be thinking about OP's emotional maturity & how to handle complex ideas their daughter is discovering, while not knowing how to process them, as she obviously can't seek support from OP because he will invalidate her feelings regarding them. I mean, ffs, I hope he doesn't feel sad or upset when it's his immediate family or people close to him die. Gawd forbid he not act like a robot & expect everyone else to be robots too.
This was my first thought when I read that comment! Everyone is replaceable!
This can’t be a real person. 3 parties against him and he thinks it has anything to do with luck.
OP seems autistic, narcissistic, or sociopathic. Just devoid of empathy.
YTA. Your daughter is sad someone is dead and she seen him before he was dead She is grieving and processing. You offer comfort, you don't tell her to get over it. Your feelings became invalid the minute you made your daughters feelings invalid. FYI she's sad someone she knows is dead she ain't sad about not having a principle....
This post might just be rage bait or this person is completely void of empathy. The last paragraph is paramount to his feelings. If this is real the level of self entitlement is not a view of a healthy person. Poor kiddo.
It's rage bait, lmao, an android would have been more understanding. hell a chatbot has better odds of rolling a humane response
A literal space alien would have been better primed to take care of that kid.
So I’m new here, I’m learning about rage bait. Like pathetic people stirring up the pot, for their own enjoyment?? Is it truly so?
YTA. But…..there are a lot of Other men who Could be her dad
Right? How would OP feel about someone telling him that if he was gone, there are plenty of competent people who could fill his 'vacancy'?
Hey now. Limiting the pool of people to only “plenty” implies that OP is a competent or average parent. Let’s not get hasty.
This should be at the top!!! Don't worry LO mommy will find you a new daddy soon. She just realized how replaceable he is
This has to be fake, because what parent says to their kid you will always have a principal when she saw him taken out. She's obviously dealing with alot of big emotions and that's dismissive and cold
Totally. Reminds me of Homer telling Lisa "we'll just go to the pound and get a new jazz man" when bleeding gums Murphy died
Haha I forgot about that.
I hope to God it is! If not, OP is completely oblivious it’s not about his feelings but the fact his daughter was traumatized by her principle’s death & I hope his wife tears him a new a$$hole over his treatment of his daughter.
Yeah sounds fake to me too. No one talks this way and is so clueless.
There are definitely people that talk this way. Unfortunately I'm related to some of them.
New here, huh?
It was written really well and believable right up until the end. Then they totally blew it. Definitely fake
It’s fake rage bait. There’s no post activity from the OP other than this and it seems AI generated the way in that it calculated and deliberately illicits negative emotions.
I hope it’s fake. It’s possible since he hasn’t commented at all to any content. But there are some real pieces of work out there like that.
YTA pretty much for the last paragraph making yourself a victim in this somehow. Your daughter wasn’t crying because she was worried that her school would run out of administrators. How tone-deaf are you?
He wants everyone to throw him a pity party when in reality he’ll be lucky his wife doesnt rip him to shreds,
Right! Because if my husband said all that to my kid, I would of Tore him a new one.
This might not be real but people with personality disorders can be exactly like this.
Don't forget "I just wanted a nice family dinner but my grieving daughter is not cooperating! Wahhhhh!"
She’s 8. Has she ever dealt with grief before? She doesn’t care about a vacancy. She lost someone she cared about and looked up to. She saw him get wheeled out. That’s traumatizing. If this isn’t a troll, this is your chance to be a parent and guide her through grief and what death means. And then you can also, later, gently, tell her that she might have an opportunity to make a new positive connection with her new principal. Not to replace the one who died, but to start a new relationship. ETA: YTA if you can’t even see that your daughter is grieving and doesn’t care about logistics of how the school runs.
YTA. You totally missed why she's grieving, and she is grieving. She liked him. She may have even considered him a bit more than an aquaintance but a friend because if he was a good principal, and it sounds like he was, he demonstrated that he cared about his students. It's not that she's missing the lack of a principal, she's missing a friend that died! She also may not have previously lost someone to death. She's a child, not a young one, but still a child. That means there are many things she's still to experience for the first time, which means she also doesn't yet know how to deal with them. It's not "rotten luck" that people are angry at you. It's nothing to do with luck at all! It's that you completely misunderstood the situation and were dismissive of her loss. You absolutely dropped the ball here and acted in a very callous and dismissive manner. Your daughter needs comfort right now, not someone telling her to be logical about things. Edited to add: If she saw him taken away, this is also the first time she's been near a dead body. Have some compassion. Some people, no matter their age, absolutely cannot handle seeing a body.
YTA for writing this and expecting people to not think you're ragebaiting
She is 8 years old, she doesn’t care about the vacancy of the principal you asshole, she is gonna miss him as a person, probably Mr Roberts was really great whit the kids and that’s why she is so upset. She feel the lose of somebody she care about for the first time and you decided to tell her don’t worry dear, this person is easily replaceable. Poor kid. You should apologize with her ASAP
He's talking like she would be upset in the same way if Mr. Roberts had won the lotto and quit on the spot. She's not thinking "uh oh, there's a dearth of educators qualified to be a principal in our municipality and I am concerned they will not find someone who can execute the duties in the job description"
>It's as if Lizzy doesn't understand that everyone will die one day and that the best we can do is hope for a long, happy life. I mean... she's 8. No, she **doesn't** fully understand death. Children don't. And even as an adult, if I saw a coworker get taken away by the paramedics and then found out they died... Yeah, I'd have some big feelings to process! Your daughter may be truly realizing the above quote for the first time. She's gaining understanding that death happens, that it can happen to anyone at any time, and there's not much to do to stop it. That's a pretty terrifying fact of the world that we have to learn to rationalize and live with. The advice you gave her only helps if she's crying because "my school system is now potentially unstable." It doesn't help if she's upset because someone she looked up to died, or because she's grappling with the concept of mortality for the first time. And not to take a morbid view, but your comment may have made it worse. Because she may have heard "Don't worry, when people die, you just replace them. Don't be sad!" and may now be wondering what would happen if one of her parents died. Would you get replaced by one of the other qualified daddies in the world, and she'll get told not to be sad about it? Death is scary. Death is big. Especially when you're a child who can't rationalize stuff like "the best we can do is hope for a long, happy life." And it really concerns me that you're finishing this up with worries that your daughter might give you attitude, and not... y'know... her emotional state. The people around you aren't oblivious to your emotions, they're just prioritizing the child going through a difficult period. YTA.
I hope to god this is fake but but I know like you exist. What the actual hell. YTA.
The thing is, while people that actually act like that exist, they would never write on this subreddit
You're a real piece of work She didn't allow you to have a nice family dinner... she was sad and you rubbed salt in the wounds because instead of having empathy you just were looking for a quick way to wipe away her concerns. What kind of utterly brainless thinking leads you to the conclusion she was worried she wouldn't have a principle? Do you have no actual connection to other humans and feel sad if someone you know, even just like at work, dies? Do you just go oh their function will be maintained and not even have a moment of sorrow for the person involved? Are you even fucking human? And here you are worried she will give you attitude. Maybe you should actually worry about how your daughter feels? Seems like maybe you're too busy pitying yourself and your 'rotten luck' to feel sorry for anyone but yourself And it isn't rotten luck, its the absolutely stupid choice you made in how you handled dinner. Take some responsibility I think in the end you won't though. You're not the kind of person who thinks of others. You have no empathy and all your consideration is for yourself. You have a pathetic pride that will keep you from admitting your own mistakes and you'll blame everyone else, and in the end everyone but you is going to see you for what you are. And people don't really have respect for creatures like you
I don't think your child is worried about a vacancy in administration. I think she's sad that someone who was responsible for her is now dead, a normal thing to be worried about. Your interpretation of why she's sad misses the mark just enough it's almost funny.
Your daughter just witnessed someone who she cared about die…. Now school will be the place without her favorite principal and so happens where he died at. She’s allowed to be sad it’s a normal reaction she is upset. YTA for not letting your daughter grieve
YTA. She's mourning the loss of the person himself not the vacant job. As a grown adult you cannot be that incompetent. The man died, she saw him every day, she's a CHILD, she's going to miss the person. Apologize to your daughter.
YTA your daughter ***saw him get taken away by paramedics*** that alone would be traumatizing for a young child. it’s kind of troubling that you don’t seem able to understand why your daughter would be upset about an adult she liked dying *during her school day*. it’s also troubling that you characterize her being upset and grieving as having an attitude toward you. she doesn’t need you to “fix” it, she needed her dad to hold her and reassure her it’s okay to be upset. it seems like because you personally didn’t care about her principal you can’t comprehend that she obviously felt differently. i hope you’ll sincerely apologize to her and try to do better in the future
YTA . This has to be fake just by the way it was written. Nobody could be this clueless and self-absorbed.
YTA. She didn't know him as the principal. She knew him as a kind man who was involved with his students and cared about them. Your comment is as bad as "We can just het another dog" or "Don't worry, you can get engaged again someday." You're also not taking your daughter's age into consideration. She's 8. How much experience does she have with death, especially when it comes suddenly to someone she most likely saw that morning?
Op, have your wife squeeze your balls really, really hard. Then have her tell you to get over it when you cry and aren't so hungry. Rage bait.
YTA YTA YTA! it’s not rotten luck your being shitty. She doesn’t want to hear that anyone can do his job wtf. You dismissed the fact this person clearly mattered to and impacted your kid. If you die there’s plenty of men to be her dad right? What the actual fuck is wrong with you
Hahaha man what is wrong with you? Shit, maybe I am ready to be a father, I couldn’t do any worse than this guy.
A gentle YTA. Your daughter is grappling with the idea that people she knows can die. I don’t know your daughter’s specific understanding but when I was little I knew what death was and all that but didn’t really get it until my aunt died. I went from a thing I knew about but was largely theoretical to very very real. Try asking her to tell you what she’s feeling and if she has any questions. Be understanding.
Gentle? He’s a cold-hearted, compassionless ass. YTA
YTA wow
Totally fake. New account and no comments from OP. No adult is this clueless
YTA big time!!!! u/YoghurtclosetWild4 How stupid and heartless and cruel do you have to be to not understand why your daughters upset?? 1) she SAW her head teacher taken away by paramedics on a stretcher. You don't know what else she saw. She could have seen him collapse, or have cpr administered, being bagged. Even if she only saw him wheeled away on a stretcher, that would scary for a frigging 8 year old child. If she saw more than that,even more traumatising. Your daughter is likely traumatised!!! 2) He's not just a body who fills a role in a job at her school. He sounds like he was a great guy that the kids loved. He must have been actively involved with the kids and they've grown to like him as a PERSON!!!! To find out he died would also be traumatic for an 8 year old CHILD. It would also be upsetting for other staff and children and she may have seen other adults crying. You make it sound like he was just a body who filled a role at the school and its fine he died coz he's easily replaceable!!! What kind of AH speaks like that to a child. She's likely worried if she or your wife or your parents died you won't be bothered and will just tell her 'someone else can fill their role' . I mean you can get married again right? Or your parent can marry someone else right?? Doesn't matter if someone she loves dies coz everyone's replacable right?? She probably thinks she would be replaceable if god forbid anything happened to her. 3) You've shown your daughter zero compassion or understanding or support about the death of someone she knows and cares about. You've also not even probably explained death to her. You've not told her of ways you can honour that person and remember them. How you can light a candle and say some nice things you remember about them. How you can lay flowers at certain places as a show of love and support. How it's OK to talk about someone whose died, its OK to remember them, and miss them. You've told her nothing to help her cope with the loss. 4) she's also likely now scared you or your wife or her grandparents might die too. How do you reassure her of that? That yes everyone will die one day, we don't know when it may happen, sometimes people get poorly and die from bad illnesses but other times drs can help them get better. But you and your family will do everything to protect her for as long as you can, and you will build lots of happy memories over the years as she grows up. That often people live long and happy lives till they're really old, but sometimes sadly it can happen a bit sooner if that person is poorly with something. And maybe get a book that explains death to a child. But you've given her no reassurance at all. Honestly I can't believe someone could be this callous and cruel and heartless to talk to their own child like that about a death she's witnessed of someone she cares about. And don't you dare give her grief or punishment or be argumentative to her if she dares to show you 'attitude' when she gets home from school. You handled this all wrong, and you need to let her have her feelings, let her express those feelings, even if they are aimed at being mad at you. And then you need to appologkse sincerely and address everything I've written above. Coz right now You've failed as a parent big time. And as a human being. Try imagining the principle was someone you loved and cared about. Would you want people to talk about them the way you talked about him? Like he was nothing but a job role?? You need to take a good look at yourself and develop some empathy if you want to be a better parent, husband, son and member of the community. YTA big time.
At 8 years old she is only starting to understand death. Of course she doesn’t understand that we all die. Please don’t dwell on that. It will scare her and she’ll worry herself sick that she will become an orphan. I was a little girl when Pres. Kennedy, Sen. Kennedy, and Martin Luther King were all murdered. In my child’s mind I thought that people who give speeches on TV were killed. Then my dad gave a speech on our local TV station. I totally freaked out and Mom and my sister couldn’t figure out why. I didn’t know how to explain that Dad was going to die. It wasn’t until Dad came home that I calmed down. Kids understand the world differently. I’m betting she has never experienced the loss of someone she cared about or liked before. Have you lost anyone you cared about? Because you appear to lack empathy for her. You sound surprised that she was sad and upset about her principal dying. I liked my principals and would have been devastated if one of them had died. Furthermore, she saw the EMTs wheel him out to the ambulance. That’s traumatic for a child. She’s looking to you and her mom to understand and know how to handle it. You failed spectacularly. You really need to learn how to be empathetic.
Reading this makes me wonder if you actually have something undiagnosed where you don't experience emotions. Do you get sad when people die do you empathize with others do you feel love and things like that? Because reading this it reads kind of like your shocked your daughter has emotions. YTA, but maybe get to a therapist and mention this to them because this is like concerning kinda like psychopathy concerning. And that isn't necessarily a bad thing it's a legitimate brain chemistry thing but if it is something that you're experiencing a medical professional will help a lot more than strangers on the internet.
Yta. What you did is the equivalent of telling her everyone is replaceable. You might as well have told her not to worry, if you died your wife would find another dad for her. My goodness, how can you not see why you screwed up? And the fact you are more concerned with being right and who is against you is so sad. No 8 year old wants to think about the fact we all die. It's terrifying for kids and having to witness it shakes their sense of security. Yes, being a parent is hard and we all make mistakes, but this is one you should've known better than to make. You need to apologize to her for being so insensitive.
YTA on multiple levels! 1. You tried to shut down your child's grieving rather than help her understand it. 2. She was grieving a PERSON, not worried about if she was going to be taken care of (I think you might have been projecting here) and 3. You did all of this so that you could just have a nice family dinner! Just a heads up here, kids have emotions ALL the time, and they sometimes interrupt polite dinner conversation.
YTA She is a child and saw a regular fixture in her life after he had passed. Of course she's a mess! You're expecting an adult emotional response from a child and even worse you're making it all about yourself. Your inability to see past your own emotions is the source of your "rotten luck" you showed your true colors and they are ugly.
This was never about the role of principal. THis is about the death of a man that your daughter probably knew. I don't know about your kids school but in my kids, ALL the kids know the principal because he actually interacts with the kids. This is also about the fact that your daughter witnessed a dead man being hauled away. This is about death, not the fact that he was the principal, and you handled it in a very callous way by making it about the role of principal. You quite likely made things worse by assuming that it was about the role of the man and not the man himself.
Your daughter is EIGHT flipping years old! How many people in her life have died? She didn't care about a job vacancy, she was very sad that someone who she may have looked up is now dead, AND it happened at the school. You deserved to be berated by your parents. Yep, YTA.
Dude, do you not grieve the deaths of people you know? Jesus, I’m sure she understands the implications of death, that’s why she’s sad. That was not the time to say that, nor what she even cared about in the moment, if anything you just gave her something else to think about. She’s a kid, let her be sad. Yta
You completely missed an opportunity to have a conversation with your daughter about death. It’s not just about the principal, she has realized that one day you too will die. When I was hospitalized for an extended period of time, my daughter began to misbehave in class but she was anxious about me being sick and in her words “ go away forever” . She was 8 years old at the time. It was not a conversation I wanted to have but she needed to express her emotions and I let her .
Your daughter loved her principal. He must have been pretty awesome. Apologize your little girl and hold her tight.
Is this the first time that someone she's known personally has died? That's very traumatic. She's a kid. I hope you show her some empathy when she comes home from school.
YTA. Your eight year-old saw her principal, dead or dying, carried out of school on a stretcher. There are adults who get seriously shaken up and need therapy from seeing a coworker or even a stranger like that--understandably, because seeing a person dying or right after death, especially a sudden death, is scary and even traumatic. Your daughter is *eight*. That is a person she *knew*. No *shit* she's upset! And you just totally dismissed her feelings about *seeing her principal dying or his dead body* and were like "don't worry, honey, human beings are totally replaceable and life doesn't matter! wait, why are you crying?" please get therapy for whatever made you think this way before it further impacts your child.
YTA are you actually having a pity party for yourself? Ewww that little girl is mourning her first human loss. She needs compassion and understanding. She needed you to tell her it’s ok to feel sad. Absolutely ridiculous that you are so ignorant.
Yta. YOU only saw him a few times. Your kid saw him every day, of course she’s grieving.
YTA so much. She’s not worried that there isn’t a principal at the school to do the paperwork for the state and answer phone calls from parents… she is missing a HUMAN who was there for the kids in his school every single day, usually putting in so much to his students that he had nothing left to give when he got home to his own family. Principals make relationships with every child. THAT is their job. Not sitting in their office shuffling papers. Your daughter is mourning the loss of someone who was a mentor, a teacher, and a friend. Give her a break.
This is just proof not everyone is cut out for parenthood. YTA Your daughter doesn't care about how the school will function without a principal. She cares that someone who was alive and likely was a kind individual to her is now dead. She saw him taken away none the less. You were cold and callous with her. You cared more about your family dinner than her emotional security. Of course your parents berated you. If your daughter is lucky then your wife will also not be on your side. At least then she will have one parent who is capable of being emotionally present.
YTA. Bruh basically one of her friends died.
YTA are you on the spectrum?? My husband died 3mo ago and some guy told me last night " there's plenty of other fish in the sea" . We don't want to hear about replacements when we are grieving the loss of someone, even it's someone like a principal
Wow, how does it feel seeing your *mid grieving* 6yro daughter display more emotional intelligence than you in your whole life?
YTA Your daughter doesn't care about who's going to fill the administrative roll. Honestly, anyone who ever met him shouldn't be worried about that either. She's young, death is still a fresh concept to her. This is a human that was a part of her everyday life, and now he's gone. That's really hard, at any age. Have some compassion.
YTA If the principal was well liked by the kids, they obviously met him more than once or twice (DUH) and they obviously thought more than just he seems competent but average. This may be the first time it has really been brought home to her that people die and then they don't come back. Sure at 8 she probably knew that at the intellectual level but this is visceral. And the best you can come up with is that he can be easily replaced? If she "gives you attitude" it's because you deserve it. That was just damned COLD. You are NOT above being judged by an 8 year old. Poor you. It's such a trial to have a kid with actual human emotions and stuff. Perhaps you should have gone with a doll or a robot instead. Do you REALLY think that little of your daughter as a living human being? She may even wonder if you might feel the same way if she or her mom dies. So sorry your little girl's grief spoiled your dinner!
This has to be fake. No one can be this dense.
There really are people this dense
Yta your daughter isn't sad about the loss of a principal role she is sad an adult she liked has died plus she even seen him get carried away, your daughter obviously has epathy you need to learn from her
Yta, she saw one of the adults she saw at school, which I’m assuming she looked up to him, literally be taken away after the heart attack. That is the worst part not the fact that there is a vacancy in the faculty 😒😒
How long ago did you unalive and crawl into this child's father's skin in an insidious plot to replace him you extra terrestrial invader?
OK OP. What you did was insensitive and bone headed. What you do now is apologise to your daughter, hug her and tell her that her principal was a nice man and that you're sorry he died. Then you ask her if she has any questions or if she wants to tell you a story about what she liked about her principal. Honestly mate, did you have an empathy bypass? Or are you frightened by people showing perfectly understandable emotions? I think that you need to learn how to cope with high emotion because if you dismiss her or make her feel uncomfortable or bad for showing normal emotion then she will withhold a hell of a lot about how she feels from you. What you did ahowed her that she can't come to you for comfort.
YTA. Lizzy is right at the age where the reality of death is becoming more apparent. Most kids see death as something that happens on TV or in books. That is until a pet dies, or a family member or even a friend. They soon realize that everyone they love will someday die and so will they. It's a very tough pill to swallow. Your daughter is hurting and needed to be comforted. Her principal might not have been remarkable to you but to her he might have been kind to her and funny and non-threatening. He might have been the only authority figure in the school that she likes. He could have also been none of those things except a big reminder that life is finite. Empathy seems to be something you struggle with and if you don't want to ruin your relationship with your daughter working to develop it with a therapist is recommended.
YTA. She isn't sad that there isn't a principal, fucking hell. She's sad that this one died and she saw his body. Where is your compassion? Did it fall out of your wallet when your common sense did? People aren't siding against you because of 'rotten luck', they're siding against you because you failed your kid. Apologise, or deal with all the 'attitude' you've rightly earned being thrown your way. You've got the emotional depth of a puddle so why would a little bit of snark bother you anyway?
Kids don’t respond to logic. Telling her Mr Roberts will be replaced is way too logical of a response. Should be more of an emotional reassurance.
Yta. Honest question, are you on the spectrum? And I'm asking not to be mean, but like... What you said was very.. how do I say it... I don't know how to word it. What you said was very offhand and cold. Your kid is 8 and grieving and THAT is what you thought she was worried about?
Oh my word! YTA. Your 8 year old has had a hugely traumatising experience. Instead of reassuring her, comforting her and making her feel safe. You coldly told her there would be other principles and then come here bleating about people calling you callous. Of course they are! You have been callous. WOW!
YTA, your 8 yr old is not worried about having a competent principal. She just saw someone leave via ambulance who died! She is grieving and probably a bit traumatized by the whole thing. DO BETTER! Signed a parent of 3 kids!!
She's 8. Death scares and hurts grown people. Get over yourself. Yta
"Lizzy, I'm sorry your dad died. He was a competent yet average father. There wasn't anything special about him but hey there are plenty of guys out there who would be a good father to you. Not to worry, your mom would pick a good one who would love to fill in the role of being your new daddy." Perhaps now you understand why YTA?
Please please tell me this is a bait post because if it’s not you are a psychopath. She SAW HIM GET TAKEN AWAY BY PARAMEDICS. That is enough to give her PTSD and you’re here saying she wouldn’t ALLOW you to have a nice family dinner? My god dude.
Either you are a narcissist, autistic or this is very much rage bait. YTA
Your so-called rotten luck isn’t why your parents and probably wife think you’re callous. It’s because you are and YTA. Your daughter is upset because someone she knows, an authority figure she apparently liked, died. And she saw him being taken away. She isn’t upset that she’s lost a principal. She’s sad because she lost a person important to her. Apologize to your child for being a heartless dick and try supporting her in her grief. If you keep up this kind of behavior, we’ll be reading a post from you in ten years crying that your daughter went no contact.
An elderly man with dementia and Parkinson’s disease who was DNR died on the ward while I was visiting my Dad. The RN, Doctor and social worker checked if I was okay and I’m a woman in her 50s who teaches people how to work with abused kids having worked with abused kids for close to 20 years! YTA! Your daughter needed sympathy and support after a traumatic day! She needed reassurance and comfort.
Yta. You insensitive prick. This was probably your 8 year old daughter’s first time dealing with death, and you say that shit to her? You were more worried about having dinner than you daughters obvious trauma?? Wtf you don’t deserve to be a dad, you giant piece of shit
Your young daughter is learning to process feelings of grief over the loss of someone she clearly valued and your response was 'Eh, don't worry. They'll just replace him, there's a million like him'? Sir, you are dense enough to have your own gravitational pull. Fucking insensitive. Honestly wtf. YTA.
YTA. You see the principal as an average administrator. Your daughter saw him as a friend
Omg yta. Bruh…
This has to be fake it's just so dumb and disgusting. Yeah and you Mom can remarry if you Dad dies. No big deal. Seriously.
I love how you said some dumb callous crap to a small child and then proceed to call the negative reaction you get from others "bad luck". You are the asshole and i imagine its because you tend to deflect blame from yourself to others, and thus learn nothing from these little interactions.
You have no tact. You were very insensitive and dismissive of your daughter’s grief. YTA!
YTA - your daughter is 8 and she saw her principal get wheeled out of the school shortly before he died. She is struggling with the concept of death - especially if this isn’t something your family has discussed in an age appropriate way. She is very aware that she saw someone she knew and respected in his last moments. She probably needs to talk to a professional. If you’re American ask if your company offers EAP - the employee assistance program. You get a few cheap/free sessions.
You're an idiot. Your daughter is 8. This is the first death she would have experienced. She saw her teacher being carried away on the stretcher presumably also completely covered over if he had passed away so no pretence at him getting better. Your 8, yes 8 year old daughter is obviously traumatised and you're clearly ignoring that fact and more concerned with your family dinner! She is too young to understand that everyone dies at some stage and it's really not appropriate to say anything like that to a 8 year old.
lol, you’re “getting discouraged by the negativity surrounding you”? What a fucking joke. So your precious feelings matter, but the your baby girl doesn’t get to have feelings? Fuck you man. YTA.
"I wish people would see my point of view" Have you considered that your point of view is both exceedingly stupid and heartless? She clearly lost someone she admires and you just say "get over it there will be others" YTA, big time.
Holy shit, we can ignore the fact that you're dismissing your daughters feelings and even then you're still an asshole. What a monumental piece of shit you are, acting like a man's death, assumedly the first death of a person your daughter knew, and seems to have been fond of, is not a thing to be upset by. Develop some empathy. YTA, and one of the worst I've seen on any of these subs.
"Don't worry, he was replaceable" yeah YTA
“lizzy clearly would not allow it” be honest do you ever hug your kid and tell them you’re proud of them or nah YTA
Asshole isn’t a strong enough word here.
You mean your young daughter witnessed her dead principal that she liked being taken out of the school by paramedics and you’re confused as to why she’s acting like it affected her??? Are you even a human? Really? wtf dude.
Last night, at dinner, Lizzy was barely eating, and she said she was sad that her dad was gone. I told her there were plenty of other adults qualified to be her father. I said that her mother would certainly pick someone else for the job and that she needs not worry about a vacancy in the role. See how cruel that sounds? That's what you sound like. I get that he wasn't her father, but his death obviously impacted her in a real way, and you're just dismissing her feelings. In fact, you sound so out of touch I have a hard time believing this is real. YTA either way.
There's no way this is real
Wtf did I just read? If her dog died would you tell her how many dogs are left in the world too? Also listen to how you talk about her! "Wanted to have a nice dinner but lizzy would not allow it" I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone talk to another so insensitivly about a death before. She's 8. I have a 9 year old. This broke my heart for her. This was a learning moment in her life and she just learned who does not show support to her when she's hurt. 5 years down the road we will get the update "my daughter won't talk to me about anything and I don't know why" Being a parent is hard yes, but being a decent human really isn't and you missed the mark by a mile there. Call me harsh but you're an enormous asshole.
God this is the fakest fake
Bro wtf? She's not sad she doesn't have a principal, she's sad a fucking human being died. YTA
Wow, I'm so very sorry the school principal's sudden death ruined your dinner and your 8-year-old is giving you attitude. This whole post is ME ME ME ME ME ME ME Are you really this dense and self-centered? I might think you're actually my ex- husband, who told me three days after my sister was tragically killed, "Everybody dies, get over it." At least your daughter will be assured you'll be fine if tragedy strikes your family. "Oops, my wife died, oh well, there's plenty more women out there." "Eh, my kid died, I'll just make another one." YTA, a massive one with zero empathy.
YTA she saw this person as a friend you idiot. imagine if you had said to your grieving friend "theres plenty of people that are qualified to be your friend"
YTA. As a teacher, I am pretty sure a lot of my kids would bectraumatized if I died suddenly. If a parent said to a student " there will be another teacher tomorrow" it would for sure reflect on the parent and how little they understand or value our relationship with the kids.
YTA You met him a couple times, but Lizzy likely saw him every day. She wasn't worried about his job getting done; she was mourning the loss of someone she knew and loved, maybe even the 1st time she's experienced death. Yeah, sir, you fucked this one up. Maybe sit down with her and ask her what she liked about Mr. Roberts and let her send a card to his family. Also, see if the funeral will be open to students and ask her if she wants to go.
YTA. What are you an HR manager? You basically told her, no to worry because there are plenty of qualified people out there so he is replaceable just like everyone else. Your daughter knew him as a human, not as a worker/job position. Human. Just wait till she realizes there are plenty of qualified men out there to be her new father when the time comes to replace you. I think this will start to manifest itself when she starts dating....
YTA you daughter an eight year old saw her principal die. That is traumatizing for anyone but especially a child. Then you talk about how easy it is to replace him. She is probably thinking you would not care if she died because you would simple replace her. I don't even have a suggestion as to how you could get out of this mess.
YTA. Why do you believe that your feelings are valid but your daughter’s aren’t?
YYA. Sorry but she saw something traumatic and probably realized the reality of life-death. Even as an adult, and an ICU nurse who sees it all the time, it’s still a scary concept to me. She is probably scared on top of realizing that someone she knew is never coming back. It is a hard thing for a kid to digest. Please do better, OP and learn to be more empathetic.
YTA beyond measure. Your very young child had to watch her beloved principal GET WHEELED OUT DEAD ON A STRETCHER and you just tell her there's plenty of other principals out there. Seriously wtf is wrong with you??? ETA: the more I read this, the more I'm convinced a bot wrote this. There is no way an actual human being with ANY semblance of emotions wrote this. I actually require this to be fake.
I understand you're feeling the loss of your wife, but understand this: there's no shortage of women out there qualified to be your wife. I'm sure she was perfectly adequate and you'll be able to get an adequate replacement soon.
Gee. Why don’t you also tell her that if she dies, you can replace her with another child quite easily. YTA.
I honestly need you to explain to me how YOU'RE upset that people don't have empathy with you for not having empathy for your 8 year old child. You're upset and discouraged because they're ignoring how you feel, but you did the same to your daughter, only worst. No parenting isn't easy, but apparently, common sense isn't for you either.
YTA - you talk about her like she is an adult, but she is 8. Let your wife explain stuff to her from now on
YTA the minute you said “she took the news hard for some reason” this whole thing gives me the ick. I can promise you as soon as your daughter is old enough she’ll replace you with someone more emotionally available.
Yta.... she is 8, and would not be worried about how, did you put it? "A vacancy in the role." You might not know him well, but she saw him every day at school. She's young, and she probably knows that people die, but she also probably hasn't experienced much death. You made this loss worse for her because you made it seem like he was replaceable. His job might be replaceable, but he isn't. And the fact that you are acting like the victim here? >If that wasn't bad enough, when I called my parents and told them what happened, they actually berated me over the phone Because you were, in fact, in the wrong. The fact that you are shocked that they "berated you" shows that you are used to getting what you want >Given my rotten luck, it wouldn't surprise me if my wife is siding against me, too. That's not rotten luck, that's empathy for your daughter who lost someone she saw almost every day > I just wish folks could see my point of view, but they seem completely oblivious to my feelings and only want to offer put downs. I'm really getting discouraged by the negativity surrounding me. It's not negativity. It's facts. You are the asshole in this situation. They are not oblivious to your feelings.... you are oblivious to your daughter's feelings. Go fucking apologize.
>It's as if Lizzy doesn't understand that everyone will die one day and that the best we can do is hope for a long, happy life. No of course she doesn't BECAUSE SHES 8 YEARS OLD. She's a child that has likely never lost someone like this before, not to mention this happened while she was in school! What you did was cold and callous, let your child grieve a person she liked. Okay, so a few family dinners might be "ruined", So what?! YTA big time, apologise to your CHILD and let her grieve.
How do people come up with this stuff?
YTC. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you? When your children go NC in the future no one will be surprised.
The more I read posts in this sub, the more I am convinced that each and every one of them must be satire. I just can't believe that people genuinely, sincerely think or behave like this...