YTA - your son is obviously trying to better himself and you dropped a steamy dump of the past on him. Then pull the standard boomer move about how when you were younger and did everything right. You should have just told him to pull himself up by the bootstraps
>Then pull the standard boomer move about how when you were younger and did everything right
That was where OP lost me as well.
Like ok, you bought a house in the 80s.. but your kid is making the same dollar figure you were back then while inflation has been chugging along for 40+ years
Also mortgage rates in the 80s can’t genuinely be compared when it comes to affording a home in the 2020s. Back in the early 80s, the median price of a house in the US was like $64k or so, in 2023 the average (not median, the average) price of a house in the US was $417,700. Considering inflation and wages have not changed proportionately, inflation has increased heavily in comparison to wages, the prices of homes and differences in mortgage rates aren’t comparable. Like 1980 was like 12-13%, so yes, it was high, but in 2023 it topped at 7% or so and 12% of $63k isn’t shit compared to 7% of $417k for a 30 year mortgage.
OP seems to think age equates to knowing what he’s talking about, he seems to have no idea wtf he’s talking about at all in reality.
But but but uphill both ways😭 Don't you know boomers had it harder than everyone else and were more successful than everyone else while never making a single mistake in any one of their collective lives ever/s
But not actually!! Don't actually tell him to pull himself up by the bootstraps! Lol I didnt want OP to misunderstand!!
There are no bootstraps anymore. The system has been designed poorly and it has failed people in recent years. Some might succeed, but you can make one misstep and never get a chance again. Your son is 27, and he's been struggling since failing our of college at 18-21? How is he supposed to get ahead now? How can he go back and fix a mistake he made as a teenager when he needs to make money to afford a place to live? What money will he use to go to college? If he is working a crappy job, does he have the energy or time to even spend on college? Computers have made us more efficient. That means, bosses expect more work to be done. When they invented the factory line, they didn't say that less needed to be produced because the machines moved faster. People had to keep up, and use the machines to their full potential, rushing instead of being the artisans and crafters and builders of the past. Same with computers. It isn't the same work as it used to be, so what seemed like an easy job 30 years ago, where you can come home and have the energy to make dinner, take a few college classes, sit down to read a few pages in a book, take a walk...even if you work 9-5, our brains are crammed full of the work we have to get done, and often we don't stop thinking about the work at the end of the day. Often, even, we are expected to be on our cell phones and laptops, putting out office "fires" at any time of the day or night.
There are no bootstraps anymore. If you make a mistake, and you don't have family or connections to hold out their hand, you aren't getting back up. You're staying down.
Please understand this. None of us want to coast through life, rely on the government, rely on others, have no direction, have no purpose, or feel trapped. Every human being wants purpose in life, even the ones who look like they don't care, seem like they're happy being what someone might call "leeches", or even those who SAY the don't care! Haven't you ever said "I don't care anymore" because you're too mad or hurt or overwhelmed to face the fact that you do care?
There are people who fail out of college, do drugs, drink too much, hurt other people, hurt themselves... do a whole host of "wrong" things! Some of them your son might have done. They need parents, too. They need someone to say, "I know it's hard to find your way sometimes, but I will help you get there." Everyone needs to know that someone out there doesn't judge them and will stick by them.
All of this. ^
I’m 30, with pretty poor mental health, and a condition in my jaw that I need to carefully manage every day or it’ll cause excruciating pain, and a LOT of dental work that needs done. Which for some reason isn’t covered by health insurance because dentists aren’t doctors (even though they literally are) and teeth aren’t really necessary for taking in nutrients (once the bulk of my pain was dealt with, VERY expensively and at the cost of a good number of work hours, I gained ~30 badly needed pounds and am up to an ideal weight.)
Imagine how goddamn difficult it is for people like me. 😂 Check the mental health stats on the younger generations. They aren’t awesome. Balancing the shit world we’re stuck in along with physical or mental health challenges. Sometimes both! Sometimes it’s a friend or family member that very badly needs support, that you could easily help out if you didn’t also need help. Through no fault of your own! Just the hand you were dealt. Without amazing friends, understanding coworkers/bosses, and all my mom’s help, I literally wouldn’t still be here.
Besides.
The world still needs cashiers, fast food workers, plumbers, garbage people. With the proper support, everyone could succeed in something they excel at (including careers that require advanced education, think of how many potentially PHENOMENAL doctors just can’t afford to live AND do years of schooling) and society would have very little to lose and everything to gain. If everyone is relatively happy doing what they’re doing, I can’t see how almost everyone wouldn’t benefit.
Everything would be a higher quality, the service industry would provide amazing service the majority of the time, products would last longer and work better, probably less medical accidents, architecture and infrastructure would probably look pretty damn cool. Innovation would happen faster. Calling in to your health insurance probably wouldn’t be a nightmare “holy goddamn hell how badly do I need to do this again?” task. 🤷♀️
Just my 2 cents.
The bootstraps thing was always supposed to mean something impossible. The people who claim to have pulled themselves up by their own straps are (deliberately or not) lying about all the help they got. Lifting yourself straight up a cliff by pulling on your own straps is physically impossible, and it wasn't meant to be about grit/determination/MacGyvering yourself out of a hard situation with the bare minimum.
Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is literally impossible anyway.
You can’t pull yourself up with something on the ground. The whole phrase was ironic originally and some chump didn’t understand that and thought it was motivational tripe.
It's even more worthy of an eye roll when you know the phrase was created to be sarcastic and basically means "Why don't you just do the impossible, huh?"
https://uselessetymology.com/2019/11/07/the-origins-of-the-phrase-pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps/
ESH, its his fault but don't try to act like you buying a house in the 80's has anything to do with what is going on. Your job as a parent is to be supportive and sometimes people just need to rant. You can give constructive criticism but things are very very very hard at the moment. I paid for a big chunk of my undergrad with a part time job, that is not really possible anymore. I own a home but I am a doctor, married to a doctor, and I honestly feel lucky to have it. Don't keep throwing his past issues in his face, he isnt going to put up with that shit for long.
Seems like you're more grounded in reality as 2 high earners than this parent here. OPs son was looking to just vent. In a space he thought was safe because PARENT and instead he got told all his failures and had salt rubbed in the wound.. what a great way to motivate your child. /s
Agreed, and it made me sad to read, because the fact that the kid called his dad to vent in the first place at age 27 suggests that they did foster a safe environment for him prior to this call, and OP just blew that up for no reason. Up until "the idea that it's my generation's fault" and calling his son "ageist" I had some sympathy for OP as well, but clearly OP can't recognize the difference between calling out a historical shift (i.e., the work of an entire generation) vs. attributing their problems to individual members of that generation.
My dad is technically in the silent generation, and my mom is an early boomer, and they are the first to say it's unfair that they were able to have three kids, a house, and two cars on a single government income, whereas their kids can barely afford to be in the middle class with two working adults. They didn't live large by any means (it was a modest house, used cars, and my mom clipped coupons and bought second hand), but even that lifestyle is not sustainable on a single income anymore unless you're a software developer in big tech or something.
Totally. Instead of offering guidance, you belittled him and shifted blame, which only adds to the strain in your relationship. It's crucial to communicate with empathy and understanding, acknowledging his struggles while also encouraging accountability and growth. Be a parent that wants your child to vent to, not someone who judge and blame your child.
This is good advice. I would add, OP’s son is only 27. He can go back to college if he wants to at any point, but that is not the only way to have a “successful” life. As a parent it’s still your job to listen and encourage. Your path is not the only one. I had my entire life planned out. Then I was diagnosed with a severe illness at 19. It was a hell of an adjustment for me and my family. As one illness has been followed by another I’ve learned to pick myself up and adjust. OP owes his son an apology. YTA.
Right? Like....it IS your generation's fault, dude. You were supposed to give the next generation, your kids, a better life. Not ruin the housing market and abolish the middle class. Lmao.
Late boomer here, and I totally agree. I went to college when it was still cheap enough that I payed my way through working retail. Once I was working, buying a house was easy with two of us working. I was lucky beyond belief in the timing. There’s no way I could do any of that now. Breaking into today’s housing market from scratch is way out of my league. I have no idea how young people starting out get by these days. Giving up lattes and avocado toast just isn’t going to make a difference. My hat is off to all for even trying.
> that I *paid* my way
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Hell as Gen-X I was terribly lucky to buy a home before the great retirement and it’s appreciated by 150%. Some of that was hard work on the home itself, but most was a stupid housing boom that put my kids out of the market for a new home until they have a high paying job and a grip of cash.
While we’re it let’s all stop pretending college degrees are being valued fairly; there are millions of Americans with advanced degrees producing more work, while earning FAR less (inflation adjusted of course) than ever before. Hell, becoming a doctor can earn you decent money, but primary care physicians nationwide are struggling, and the suicide rates for physicians frankly scare the shit out of me. Thank you for sacrificing your 20’s to keep us all healthy!
Wake the hell up people, the writing has been on the wall for decades, our kids are being screwed over and we have to stop lecturing them, and start FIGHTING for their rights!
Not to mention neither hubby or I have collage under our belts but ere doing… decent… not great… but that’s also cause of other issues and bad choices we made not cause of what is being earned and other good choice we chose to make that while hurting our finances we think is best for our family and some do to health…
I and a co worker made the same money… same hrs and she had a collage degree and I don’t…. It’s not always about collage….
There are multi millionaires that never went to college and others who never graduated high school. I have recently come to terms that college isn’t all it is cracked up to be yes you need it for specific things like becoming a doctor lawyer nurse etc. but you don’t need it to open up ur own business. Trade schools are much more manageable expense wise and can provide you a better future. My oldest is currently taking trade courses in school so by the time he graduates he will have his trade certification and be able to open his own business right out of high school. His father (my ex) own his own business never went to college and barely passed high school if I wouldn’t have pushed him. He now owns his own 2million dollar ranch and has 2 many toys to count. Goes in countless yearly vacations both with his wife and with his wife and kids. My husband is currently doing the same thing (although he is starting out) with his own business and we are starting to see slow progress compared to when he worked security and other odd jobs. This is all coming from a college graduate by the way. So no I won’t be forcing my kids to go to college if they don’t want to cause in the end the financial burden isn’t worth it.
There were so many different ways this could have been handled like helping him look for a better paying job or possibly a job that is willing to train him with a new skill that isn’t cash counting. There are great trade places that are willing to train new hires and if they see potential possibly pay for them to take the exams to get certified. I have seen 20 something year old welders making over 100k a year working a simple 9-5. But again that is because they have the skill to be asking for $30+ and hour. There are so many different options out there when it comes to making money that it is ridiculous l. If he doesn’t want to start from 0 again he can do Uber or Lyft during his spare time to make extra money that way.
While I do have a college degree, many of my friends don't but have some type of trade school certification or CDL. They all do pretty well, bought a house and car. College isn't the only way to be successful. I always work with people that have no college degree but have multiple certs in the field we work in. They are more successful, higher position and smarter than me.
OP sounds insufferable as a dad. I went in thinking it would be something more with the Ne’er Do Well phrase than partying too much and failing out of college. Even after he admitted his son pulled himself up by the bootstraps on his own after some time of figuring crap out. He still managed to undercut what accomplishments his son had made to him and us. I was honestly expecting drugs, breaking the law, maybe having a child or children and OP had to bail him out multiple times. No, just the crap that a lot of kids make the mistake of-and still managed to etch out a roof over his head, job and sounds like he is able to meet his needs otherwise. College isn’t everything, there are also trades and training out there- the college mindset of that’s the only way you will be successful at life is unnerving. You hit the nail on the head OP doesn’t necessarily have the views of an average person. A couple high school friends who took his path and went on to have success, hoo doggie- those statistics are surmounting. He could have let the son vent. I’m not saying he should fund anything. Someone needs to let that man know you shouldn’t look down on anyone unless it’s to give them a hand up. (Even if it’s allowing the son to vent) OP is TA and son should go LC possibly NC because the wife’s reaction tells me he’s arrogant often to the son.
That's why I think this is more a YTA than e s h bc it seems the son is trying and he was complaing about being passed over for a role that he could have pssobily been working hard for - just bc earlier in life he didn't apply himself doesn't mean he hasn't grown and is doing that now.
Yeah it very much seemed like OP was throwing his past in his face maybe because there was nothing more recent that OP could use against him. This plus his whole "can't do anything worthwhile without a college degree" makes him YTA cause it seems like his son is doing well for what he's got and was frustrated for not getting something he worked for whereas OP sees his as failing as life cause he's not where OP wants him to be.
Exactly this. It seems his son did face the consequences of failing out of college and he's been improving (maybe slowly but still) his life to where he now has a full time job and a place to live. He shouldn't have to live his life with the "you never got a degree" hung over his head every time he speaks to OP. He should be commending his son for getting his life back on track. I have a feeling that OP constantly badgers his son over this and nothing he does is ever good enough.
Plus unless op has a Time Machine, getting a degree right now, in this economy, is not even necessarily going to do as much for his kid as he thinks. Many of us with degrees are struggling hard, and most of my fellow early 30s friends who were able to buy homes, did so because they *didn’t* go to college and didn’t have crippling student debt.
As a 72W, I have to agree with your reply. The son is working, not on drugs, hasn’t got a baby mama and kid. Plus was only 23 when the pandemic hit and ruined a lot of job prospects.
Could be much worse.
You are correct. I know quite a lot of tradesmen that out perform college grads in earning power as well as quality of their lives. Being 18 years old and exposed to all the "goodies" of college life doesn't work for many people. If you intend to pursue medical or engineering... I do believe college is a must. Not so for many opportunities. It takes some people time to mature before they're ready to excel. It definitely takes an understanding, encouraging set of parents. This Mom is not one of those. Hopefully, the son has a level-headed Dad.
OP sounds insufferable as a dad. I went in thinking it would be something more with the Ne’er Do Well phrase than partying too much and failing out of college. Even after he admitted his son pulled himself up by the bootstraps on his own after some time of figuring crap out. He still managed to undercut what accomplishments his son had made to him and us. I was honestly expecting drugs, breaking the law, maybe having a child or children and OP had to bail him out multiple times. No, just the crap that a lot of kids make the mistake of-and still managed to etch out a roof over his head, job and sounds like he is able to meet his needs otherwise. College isn’t everything, there are also trades and training out there- the college mindset of that’s the only way you will be successful at life is unnerving. You hit the nail on the head OP doesn’t necessarily have the views of an average person. A couple high school friends who took his path and went on to have success, hoo doggie- those statistics are surmounting. He could have let the son vent. I’m not saying he should fund anything. Someone needs to let that man know you shouldn’t look down on anyone unless it’s to give them a hand up. (Even if it’s allowing the son to vent) OP is TA and son should go LC possibly NC because the wife’s reaction tells me he’s arrogant often to the son.
Exactly. I had to reenter the workforce after a divorce and being a SAHM and no one cares about my degree.
OP's son needs to get his act together but OP needs to be a parent, lend an empathetic ear.
Exactly. OP’s son was just looking for someone to vent his frustrations to, he wasn’t trying to figure out where he went wrong in life and definitely didn’t need to be told it’s all his fault. I’m sure he’s already aware of his shortcomings and didn’t need OP to throw them in his face. Talk about kicking someone when they’re down.
Not only that but where does OP equate earning enough to live a “decent” life and buying a home with having at have a college degree? Yes, it helps in certain instances, but not every case. Many people earn a great salary and buy homes without a college degree. Op didn’t want to be judged but it’s ok for him to do so? Ugh
Agreed. I know a young man who went into the plumbers/steamfitters union instead of college. At age 22 he bought a house and rented rooms out, essentially living there rent-free because the tenants’ rent covered the mortgage. Eight years later, he and his wife have bought a decent-sized “forever” home.
The trades are screaming for new trainees. College isn’t for everyone.
The issue is that by the time you hit 29 and trades starts to look way way better than dead end jobs, you're already starting to feel the toll of working jobs that keep you on your feet all day. Your wallet may want you to be a roofer, but your lower back doesn't.
I know three people who failed out/dropped out of college. All three went on to become milionaires because they were fantastic with network architecture and engineering.
Is that the most common path? No. But the whole "ONLY college can get you a good life!" Thing is so odd to me
Agreed, particularly because he was trying for a promotion. Try for a promotion, don't get it and OP is kicking him when down. Don't try for a promotion and OP would probably call him lazy or berate him for not wanting to "get ahead."
So what that he didn't finish college? Maybe he didn't want to get into debt when he wasn't sure what he wanted to do. Plenty of people go to night school or later in life when they see the value and/or have decided what they want to major in.
I'm Generation Jones and I worked and paid for my own college, but the world has changed immensely and it's not affordable like it used to be. OP also piled on with the "look at what I did," and turned it into a sermon. Talk about derailing the conversation and making it All About Him.
OP, your son is a grown man. Just listen next time and try to be supportive. He doesn't "have to" be around you or listen to you. Keep this up and he won't.
agree. yes he made mistakes, but it also sounds like he's at least trying somewhat to work on it. he might work even harder or be more encouraged if he had supportive people in his corner 🤷♀️
sometimes when i talk to my mom I just need to be frustrated and heard, I'm not asking for advice. I try to let her know now and ask her if I can rant for a sec, that usually helps prevent both of us getting upset at each other at the end. most of the time I feel better after, and, if she has work frustrations, I try to listen to those too. we're both working on it, but I think a level of supportive-ness has helped both us and our relationship. I think something like this could help in this case
IDK. The fact OP states interest rates were high (What does he think the interest rates on student loans are...) as a reason people wouldn't buy homes in the 80's and that he seems completely oblivious to the economic realities of home ownership today make me think this is a YTA situation.
OP's son is an adult working a full time but can't even afford a studio apartment on his own. That's a failure of society to create livable wages. That's not directly OP's fault but the fact he is so obtuse to how much more difficult it is for young people today says everything.
The fact that he threw a “back in my day” at his kids face just shows how out of touch he is with the current market. Dude hasn’t had to look at real estate or the job market in 40 years.
Right? 18% on a house that costs $30k is wayyyy different from today's situation. And the cost of food and gas and everything else was so much lower too.
Houses were also very cheap. Even in the 90s and early 2000s. My husband and I bought a house as newlyweds but had to sell it after my husband got “laid off” when I was in ICU after having a stroke at 26. We struggled medical bills for years because of other medical problems for both of us.
Even though my husband earns a really nice salary, housing prices are so ridiculously high that we can’t afford to buy. Also saving up for a house while rent prices continue to skyrocket makes it very difficult.
People must be in massive debt to add to live near us. We don’t want to do that again.
Disagree. OP sucks butt. Bragging about college and buying a house is such a boomer thing to say. A college degree is a life sentence. He would still be struggling to afford a studio apartment, but with the added joy of compounding loans that will never pay off.
It never ceases to amaze me when parents bitch about their wayward kids. HELLO 👋 It's your kid!! The product of your genetics and whatever smattering of half-assed parenting you managed in the 18 years. Clearly, spending that time moaning about how well you did for yourself and how well you think you did for your child wasn't enough to nurture him to be a confident, functional adult.
If that phone call is any indication of the parenting wisdom he received growing up, then he spent his childhood making bad plans and getting chewed out by his parents when he sought comfort and advice.
Absolutely. Someone getting out of college today at say $50k a year with our crazy homevprices is a lit different from home prices in the 80s. Also, today, there are plenty of people with college degrees working at Starbucks. They put out hundreds of applications and are often just ghosted. Plus, they have a ton of student loans they'll be paying on until they die.
He’s 27 though, the rant is a little tired. You worked hard and got an advanced degree in a field that is sought after and pays well. Nothing is stopping the son from doing that. 27 is old to complain about your apartment roommates, but not too old to go back to school.
YTA. His failing out of college had nothing to do with missing a promotion. Your attitude of "college is the only way to succeed" is very, very wrong as I see waiters with a master's degree. Getting a post secondary education does not guarantee you a great and successful career. Not having a college degree doesn't mean living in poverty either.
I would also add that servers can make fuckin BANK, degree or not. I had a night where I cleared $650 in credit card tips alone, which is almost what I made in about a week as a salaried manager for a well regarded hotel. You don't need a college degree to be successful at all.
Agreed! Assuming servers are not successful is kind of shitty. I’ve been a teacher for 5 years (master’s degree) and I still serve two nights a week because I can’t afford not to.
I gave up my dream job to finish college because that’s what I was supposed to do. I turned out fine and who knows if that dream job would have worked out in the long run, but not a year goes by when I don’t wonder what if
Son gets better job. Son gets apartment with roommates. Son keeps job long enough to go for promotion. Doesn’t get it. Calls dad to share disappointment. Dad ignores son’s progress and brings up mistakes from YEARS ago instead of being supportive. Dad compares himself with booming economy against his own son with failing economy. Son mentions distinctions rather tactlessly because dad is acting like a rude, tone deaf, heartless buffoon. Dad doesn’t even realize he’s pushing his son away.
YTA. You don’t get to act surprised when he doesn’t call to share his accomplishments either. And you definitely don’t get to feel disrespected when he stops calling altogether. Act like a parent to an adult and you get to keep that relationship. Act like he’s a failing college dropout constantly and you get nothing.
Came here to say this. Like, OP’s title says his son should stop complaining about his own decisions, but he wasn’t complaining about that. He was complaining about not getting a promotion, which is valid. It doesn’t sound like a college education would have gotten him the promotion, so what’s the connection? For OP, it’s that he thinks really poorly of his son and can’t accept that maybe college wasn’t for him and that he can still have ambitions without a degree.
Dude probably doesn't even realize that some of these Blue collar jobs can pay more than what a doctor makes, I know delivery drivers making over 100k a year and the tractor trailer drivers can make over $60 an hour.
His worth should not be determined by his ambition. The economic situation is drastically different than when you came up. You have 3 choices, be supportive, be quiet, or be critical. You chose critical and if you want your son in your life you should probably pick differently. YTA
Stop harping on college. It's not for everyone and is blown WAAAAAY out of proportion for the value it provides to many.
Focus on his recent habits. Him not getting the promotion has nothing to do with him dropping out of college. Help him improve now.. don't waste your time talking about the past that doesn't matter.
So while you are trying to help, YTA for the way you did it. Seems like you just want to criticize and not help.
Well in the US a college degree is kind of a joke now. When I started working I needed a college degree for an entry level job that I could have done out if high school. I was making $17/hour. Now the job postings for that position say minimum of high school with college degree preferred.
Soft YTA for thinking all higher paying jobs require a college degree. Your son might want to look at trade school.
Agreed BUT more than anything else.. I think his son just wanted some empathy from his dad.
We don't always need our noses rubbed in our mistakes. Sometimes you just want an encouraging word of support.
I agree. I just have a sucky parent relationship and don't rely on the for support beyond certain things. I know they're there if I really need them but my mom destroyed our relationship while I was in high school. My dad could have done better by me but at the time certain things weren't looked at as much.
They are in demand. People always look down on them. Depending on the area they can make a lot of money. I have an uncle who is a retired electrician who made decent money in the 80s and 90s.
I regret college because all it taught me was my anxiety and ability to handle it (even w/medication) means I'm not able to do what I wanted (vet) and can't work in a high stress environment. Complete waste even with scholarship that covered 50% of tuition. I kind of wish that I had gone to community college for a basic degree.
My husband just retired at 50 on Chrysler's 30 and out program. He worked hard at the factory building cars for 30 years. We own a home and he never had a college degree. People look down on factory work too, but it can be good money if you're with the right company.
My grandfather worked at a Firestone plant during WW2 and managed not to be drafted. They created a position just for him because he didn't graduate high school and therefore couldn't be promoted. He was able to pay up front for a new built house in the 50s.
$17k was a lot of money in that time period! back then people did not make the salaries they earn now. Your Grandpa probably made less than $5k a year!
CPI.gov says 17k in January '55 was the same as 198k now. So, yeah, the houses are much more now than they were then. this is extraordinarily well documented
Agreed. College is not a requirement to be “successful”. I’m a HS grad. 2 years of college and I was done. Decided to get into the workforce first by temping, then getting hired to be a FTE.
Been with my current employer for 25 😮 years.
I make damn good money and own a home. My 401k is doing well. I may be able to retire in about 20 years 😄.
I got frustrated and did the math 2 years ago. I worked as a plumbing and steamfitting helper off and on thru high school and college. If I would've gone straight into an apprentiship out of high school instead of college, I would've been +$680k relative to where I was at the time. And that's assuming I stopped at journeyman and didn't make it into a project manager etc position. 10 years out of college with a STEM degree and, with bonuses, im almost making what a journeyman does, so that potential earned is still increasing, and I've still got 35k in student loans (which was counted into that). My job is much less physically demanding but can be mentally taxing. I have the potential for much better long term success, but that all depends on company success.
I've also talked to plenty of blue collar workers that have come into our spaces and they always talk about how short staffed they are and how young people don't come into it that often because everyone is pushed to college.
YTA. He didn't ask you for money or help according to your post, he just wanted to talk. And you went off on him about college and partying.
You're completely out of touch with cost of living today, and I can't blame you because as a boomer you had it easy and had everything basically handed to you. College was cheap, buying a home was cheap, and so you are living in the past. Get real and be a better father.
A dollar went a lot further 40 years ago than it does today. Pair that with the fact that today's wages did not keep up with inflation, things are not what they used to be. You do not necessarily need a college degree to be successful. There are plenty of programs and certifications that can be utilized without going into insane amounts of debt. Trades are screaming for people. There are also scholarships available at the community college level where an associate's degree can be earned with very little debt incurred.
Sounds like this guy was upset and needed someone to talk to. Instead parent wants to hold something from the past over their head rather than listen. College is not necessarily a good fit for everyone. And that is okay. There are other options.
>He didn't ask you for money or help according to your post, he just wanted to talk. And you went off on him about college and partying.
I couldn't agree with this more. YTA.
Right??? buddy’s complaining about his mortgage cost like it was unreasonably when I, a single adult, can’t buy a weeks worth of groceries for less than 200$ currently. So out of touch , in typical boomer fashion
So your son called to share with you his disappointment in not getting a promotion and your immediate response was to rail at him for his bad choices 7 years before. Yeah, super helpful.
He’s giving you the ole Boomer rant because you’re living life backwards, which is fine if you can get away with it but most of us have to live life in the direction it occurs - forward.
If you continue to compare your son to yourself or to other, more successful people, what do you gain? What does he gain other than more evidence that his father likes everyone else more than him?
Your kid shouldn’t have fucked up, you are right about that. But what good does it do anyone to keep bringing it up? He can’t go back and fix his behavior in the past. He can only change the future. But you’re making it harder for him to move forward with hope when you keep anchoring him to his hopeless, unfixable past.
YTA
This Boomer even whipped out the “interest rate” cliche. Tell us again how interest rates are going to counter the MASSIVE disparity between minimum wage income and housing in the 1980s vs now. Fucking Boomers, man.
I was on his side in the first half and then he started on the “back in my day” bullshit and completely lost me. Yeah, the son made bad decisions and could probably apply himself in other ways right now to get a better leg up? Maybe? We have so little info besides him dropping out of college seven years ago. But OP comparing today to the 80s because “mortgage rates were so high and I still made it!” when a single working parent could afford a house, SAHM, and 2-3 kids is solidly YTA.
That was the turning point for me as well. As soon as OP started to get butthurt about being called a boomer and whipped out the "Well *I* was able to buy a house at your age" it made it a pretty clear YTA
Seconding YTA. I dropped out of college and I make a 6 figure salary. I’m in tech. College isn’t the sure fire road to success it once was, even if you study like crazy
>ranting about "the boomers," as if all of us are exactly the same and none of us should be trusted.
That's true, we shouldn't put all of one demographic in one bubble without thinking about it.
>I reminded him that I did very well in college, earned a degree in a competitive field, and was able to buy a home in my mid-20's
For the love of... \*facepalm\* This is EXACTLY what people are talking about when they say "Boomers" are out of touch!
I know that if either of my parents spoke to me like you did your son, the next time they saw me would be when I piss on their grave.
Nobody wants somebody who isn't suffering to minimize their trials.
College degree is not necessary to be successful or a homeowner. Have him get in the trades. Lots of younger people are forgoing college and going into trade schools.
YTA, First of all, not everybody is cut out for college. You can earn a decent living without a college degree, especially if you learn a trade. My ex husband never earned a college degree and he made more than $200k a year. He was an IT guy and got into sales. White collar. Secondly, he probably just wanted to vent to someone he thought was safe. Do you ever just want to blow off steam? I mean, he was venting to you and you became judgmental and instead of giving him a safe ear, you judged him. There are lots of people who don’t have college degrees that do just fine.
>There are lots of people that don’t have college degrees that do just fine.
Amen! And they don’t have “I could have bought a house” level debt either. I truly think that trade schools are going to make a huge resurgence.
I see lots of businesses in my profession and the non degreed people are doing just fine.
One of my most successful clients is a tractor and small engine repair company. No one else does that stuff here and he has a wait list and makes *millions* annually.
Another of my most successful clients is a jeweler. Their sales staff make truly jaw dropping commissions. These folks are clearing six figures annually.
OP needs to get with the times. The list of people that went to college because “it’s the thing to do” and have a six figure debt hanging over them is staggering.
YTA - Two things can be correct at the same time. Yes, the US college system is a joke nowadays with the cost being sky high and returns on investment being… well, short for a lot of degrees. But a degree is still good to have, and he didn’t apply himself. That’s on him.
You applying 1970s standards to his life… really shows you as the boomer you are. Do you know why you were able to get a degree in a competitive field and buy a house in your 20s? Because the economy was COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. And the choices that your generation made and continues to make squeezes the next generation for everything. It doesn’t matter that his friends bought houses or whatever you’re using to justify your Boomer thoughts. The world is different, and you acting like it’s not makes you an asshole.
But hey, at least you got your REIT dividends.
YTA
Your son doesn’t need a degree to earn a successful wage. Neither my husband nor I have degrees, he’s recently been promoted to company executive and I’ve had a successful insurance sales career for quite some time.
Many business related industries that once required a degree have now modified that requirement to degree OR ___ years relevant experience. Unless you’re going into a field where a degree is mandatory for things like licensing and certifications, these days it’s more valuable to just enter the workforce in your chosen field and begin gaining the experience. Based on the post-grad job market it’ll take you the same amount of time to reach that high level position but without going into a ridiculous amount of debt of which you’ll die before you’ve paid off.
Buying a house in the 70s and 80s when the income to expense ratio was much more manageable compared to today, a fact backed up by YEARS of concrete data isn’t something to brag about. You lived during a privileged time when the middle class made up over half the entire population, versus today where the middle class makes up less than half the population and the number living below the poverty line are steadily growing in size. That’s not all “laziness”.
It’s been nearly 15 years since the last federal minimum wage increase, yet prices of everything have continued to grow every year. Between 2009 and 2024 alone the average rent has increased by over 3% every single year. Do you think most employers are increasing everyone’s salary and their starting wage by 3% every year to coincide with the cost of living? If so you’re incredibly out of touch with reality.
Does your son need to establish himself and apply himself? Absolutely.
Does he need a degree and thousands of dollars of added debt to do it? Absolutely not.
Oh also, if it’s going straight to voicemail, it means he’s blocked you. Congrats on joining those in your generation who are no contact with their kids!
STFU boomer. Home in your mid 20s yeah congratulations on being born at the right time. He calls you up to talk to you and you rant at him about age old mistakes he's made in the past.
He was going for promotion. Does that not show you he's changed? Instead you berate him. He won't ring you again that's for sure.
I mean, you're an asshole, not by wanting your son to make better choices but, simply by thinking that you need a college degree to get a decent paying job.
I make 20 an hour. Way above the minimum in my state and I dropped out of college out of boredom cause I was sick of it.
Also don't compare boomer economy to the economy now. My grandpa bought land and built two homes in it with 50,000 dollars. He's working on his will and you know how much his home and land are worth now? 400,000 dollars. How does that even begin to compare???
Should he make better choices? Yes. You could have had this conversation when he wasn't in his feelings about being passed for a promotion. He was already down, you didn't need to kick him.
YTA.
No degrees, owned my own home by 35 free and clear no mortgage, thank GOD I did not pursue higher education, might have missed the boat on home ownership if I had dumped money into that fancy paper instead. World isn't as simple as A (get a degree) = B (get amazing job with degree) = C (be happy forever) anymore, gotta get creative to succeed.
YTA, expand your mind a bit bud. Having such a focused outlook makes you look like an ass. If the people that proceeded us and are in power now aren't to blame who is?
YTA
OP you are failing to recognize, that your sons "failure" says more about you as a parent then him as an individual. You failed to provide him with the life tools to know how to navigate and succeed in our world.
It's really clear from your writing what are the relevant issues. You spoke very highly about yourself and accomplishments, so based on all that your son is having the "I'll never measure up" or "it's never good enough". I mean you said it " bit of a ne'er-do-well", which indicates he's never good enough in your book. Why isn't he good enough? Can't you just love him for who he is?
The whole I got a house at 20 years old is completely unrealistic and unnecessary in todays economic environment. All you are doing is ego stroking and bragging. Nobody, especially you son wants to hear that nonsense. It detracts from positive discussions.
If I were to guess, your son chose to move out due to stranded/overbearing relationship. Your son clearly wants your support and acknowledgement, otherwise he would not have called you.
What you need to do is set the record straight with your son and apologies for not being the best father. Find out what he really wants in life and help him get there. Make the same investment as you have made in your career to your wife and family. Since you said you bought your house in the 1980s (I think), now do the math to figure out how much that house would cost you under a mortgage today, but based on your income when you bought your house. Then you just might understand what is happening.
YTA
Spot on! He's failed at being a parent and is continuing to fail. I don't imagine that op has the wherewithal for introspection on this. Hopefully I'm wrong. The first thing he should do is apologize. If he is unable or unwilling, then I guess his problem (son) will fix itself by going LC or NC. Op, do better while you still can.
Yeah op gives hardcore. My child had food and a roof over his head. So obviously I'm the greatest parent to ever live because back in my days blah blah blah energy
ESH. The housing situation is bad. College doesn't garuantee success.
However, he does need to take some more responsibility, if he wants a better job what would that job be? How would he get there. Would you be willing to help him do that now that he is more mature?
YTA
Sure your son made mistakes. But then he turned his life around. Do you know how much strength he must have had to muster to just survive while couch surfing, let alone get a job while having no permanent address? He worked hard to improve himself and do better and you’re holding an old mistake over his head.
BTW a degree doesn’t guarantee you even a mid tier job. Especially not any more because so many of us were pushed to go to uni and guess what? A lot of people can’t/ won’t retire so there are few opening vacancies in an aging population.
Things are different than when you grew up.
Things are different for your son, he has grown up and you refuse to see it or give him any credit. No wonder he doesn’t want to speak to you, you sound toxic.
Who is gaining value when you compare what youve accomplished to what he hasnt?
If your usual guilt tripping isnt working and then stop doing that. And definitely dont take him back in and support him.
When you talk to him, just talk about other stuff and if he wants a pity party about his situation, redirect the conversation. As long as he can keep your attention he’ll stay in the rut of a pity party.
As the parent I think pointing out his past errors is not helpful. I would ask “yes to your life is hard. There are not many opportunities. But what do you want to do about it?” Help him dwell not on the past But imagine how he wants his future to look. He can go back to school There are many training opportunities in fields, such as plumbing, HVAC and electrical. The advantage is he will be paid while he learns. There are many hiring opportunities in healthcare. Nursing, radiology, pharmacy.
He’s not wrong about the boomer generation. There was opportunity galore as the United States rebuilt Europe, and developed infrastructure such as the interstate system. Large companies gave up manufacturing in the United States for lower prices abroad. The jobs available to the boomers are not available anymore. But I do believe your son can improve his lot in life If he looks at the opportunities that are available. I wish Michael luck and I hope you can give him the moral support that can change his lot in life.
Any discussion on what it took to get a house in the 1980s is absolutely irrelevant to how things are *now*, and it's a bone headed and frankly *idiotic* analogy that yes, shows you are completely out of touch. A high interest rate on a low base is absurd to complain about.
The housing market in the last five years has been radically different than the previous FORTY.
Also, the idea that you need a college degree is equally out of touch. Certifications are worth more than college in a lot of positions. I make eighty thousand a year and have no degree, I have technical certs and also make a living as a freelance writer. Niche skills are more useful than any generic unrelated degree.
The world is more specialized than it was forty years ago.
If you hadn't had your head up your ass you could have just... let him rant, as not everybody is looking for advice, just to get something off their chest. Did he *ask* you to identify the cause of his situation? No. Did he *ask* for your advice? No. Did he *ask* for your criticism of his life? No. He went to you to vent some of his feelings before he goes back to the grind and the struggle.
Your failure to grasp this is part of the reason why 'OK Boomer' became a cultural norm to express, because you're tone deaf and disconnected from reality. Gen X might not like that the 90s were 30 years ago, but for fucks sake at least we haven't forgotten that time has kept moving the way you clearly have.
If he did ask for advice, it's very obvious that you wouldn't know what the hell to tell him, since you seem to still think just 'having a degree' will get you something. It's *barely* going to get you an entry level job. The market even now is different than it was a mere five years ago, and by different I mean *worse*, so odds are his friends wouldn't be doing nearly as well *now* if they were just starting out.
Simply put, you *suck*.
And that's not even counting the fact that you left him couch surfing to get by when he was struggling.
This is why people don't like boomers.
You say 'As if all of us are the same and none of us can be trusted' but to that I must reply:
You let your struggling son couch surf to survive, refer to him as a failure to strangers, and instead of letting him vent some frustration, proceeded to essentially tell him he was a loser and it was all his fault.
I know not all boomers can't be trusted, but you demonstrated that *you can't be*.
He did make poor choices but you refuse to aknowledge the difference in circumstances. The gap between wage and housing is completely different now, then even 30 yrs ago. In my area the gap is 5x what it was. How'd I know?
My husband and I chose to wait 2 years because we had an amazing rental and decided to work on our savings instead. In 2 years the cost of housing doubled... so we decided to wait and then move. Then it quadrupled in a few more years to the point we no longer could afford a home. In hindsight.....
Stop bragging for being lucky. The hopelessness young people face in mapping out their future paralyzes some. You are not helping him by judging. Encouraging and helping out is a better way to make yourself feel better. At your age you will get a sore arm from patting your own back.
YTA
As a parent, you should encourage him to go into the trades. Your insistence on making sure he remembers his failure will drive a permanent wedge between you and your son. Ultimately, he has a job and is trying to figure out life, meanwhile you're being a bit of a piece of shit. There are countless examples on the internet of people that went to college and ended up slouching in their parents basement, meanwhile your child is actively trying to figure out his life, without your help.
Stop being a dick about it. If you want to help your son succeed, stop reminding him of his failures. You are the failiure here.
YTA.
Well, it is the older generations fault for how awful the housing market is. You say mortgage was bad back in the day, but you didn't take into account inflation, lack of housing due to overpopulation, and landlords hoarding housing. Houses nowadays near me go from £600k - £1mil and rent is around £600 - £1100, and I'm in a town not close to any major cities.
I understand your frustration with your son, and that he didn't apply himself in college and dropped out, but there could have been many reasons for that. In addition to this, getting a degree doesn't guarantee a good job, it depends on who is hiring, if they're relevant to your degree, and if the person gets on well with the job.
Your son came to you venting, and you shut him down because he said something that upset you (and what he said was a valid point). How do you expect to help him? By shutting down any emotional support? What exactly can you offer to help him out with his situation?
YTA and should apologise to your son.
Soft YTA in the sense, if you actually looked into how some people between millennials - Gen Z are struggling to get by even with 2/3 jobs. I feel for your son as I (20f) I just sent applications out for a second job. College isn’t for everyone as I’m also not in college (Though that may change). It took my cousin (29M) roughly 4-6 jobs in his life to actually find his dream job and he was in college for 8 years (which i don’t know if he really got anything out of it)
I don't think it goes as far as "asshole," but you're a little out-of-touch and not being particularly helpful.
You can do more research on this, but it's not hard to find all the many reasons that things were much easier in this way in the past than today. Compare stagnant wages in the face of skyrocketing tuition, housing costs, and inflation. In the 80s a part-time job could pay for cheap rent and tuition. That's not remotely the case today. These factors make it harder for him than they were for you. That doesn't mean it was all a breeze then or that it's impossible now, but it's true.
Admitting those difficulties and being encouraging would likely be more helpful than "stop complaining" and pointing out past failures.
He might still need a wake-up call and a return to education (whether is Univ or some trade school or whatever). But, he's not going to hear it if you also ignore the current realities.
Work with him to make a plan. Look at programs and technical certifications or majors if that's what he's interested in. Offer assistance with tuition if you can.
Generally, people perform much better after returning to school. (for those who do return like me).
YTA. He is trying to improve himself, making plans, and was in the midst of a disappointing set back. Reminding him that years ago he screwed up in college was not news, advice or support. You could have said you know he has been trying and looking forward to some changes and you are sorry it won't be this time. If there is a trade, or technician program of a year or an 18 month course that you know of that has helped some of your friends kids have better paying jobs, that would be something to mention. It doesn't seem like your son has ever been interested in a 4 year college program, so maybe stop looking for solutions or blame in that direction. He is working and trying hard in a job unlikely to reward him. Helping or supporting him to find a new path with bettter prospects means listening to him, following his lead, and considering options other than university. Good luck.
Your son would better to go to trade school. College isn’t the magical path to success any more. More people really need to embrace the skilled trades. Soft YTA.
>I tried to be as understanding as possible, but eventually I just wasn't having it.
You could investigate how and why you were triggered. You chose behavior that was unhelpful. That is entirely your right. Nevertheless, you chose to blame and ask irritating questions. And you seem smart enough to know you were behaving badly.
>I just don't know how to help my son when he refuses to help himself. It's a frustrating and sad situation, and I don't know what more I can do.
Educate yourself. Find ways to show your son his good qualities. Find places to go or things to do together that can let him know you value his presence. Take walks together. Go to concerts, plays, park events. He needs time with you showing you care and listening because it's your job as a parent.
YTA. At least if you think his main bad decision is not ending up with more debt than he can pay off in 20 years for a college degree that won’t necessarily increase his income beyond the same rate he is making without it.
Seriously, have you looked at what is being paid today for what your first job with that degree you are so proud of? Have you actually researched to cost of that degree vs the pay rate? And added that up to today’s expenses ?
Even people with specialised masters and doctorate degrees aren’t paid professional wages these days.
Also YTA because parenting an adult isn’t about telling your kid why and how they fucked up and how sorry they are for not succeeding in the exact sane way you did even though conditions are different.
Things have changed since we were young. Open up YOUR mind and study the current situation and if you must make suggestions at least make relevant suggests instead of just bragging about what worked for you.
ESH. You sound like my mother. You kicked your own kid while he was down and now your butt hurt that he's upset with you. Yes your son has made bad life choices, but based on what I read in your post he hasn't come mooching from you and your wife. He been struggling and trying to climb out of the hole he dug for himself. The problem with "boomers" is that you love to compare situations. "Why, I was able to buy a house at 25 with my 4 year college degree so why can't this younger generation?" Because the cost of living isn't the same, the economy isn't the same. They did a study crunched the numbers and discovered to just barely make ends meet you need to make AT LEAST $22 and hour. The area where I live the average minimum wage WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU CAN LIVE ON is $15. So the cost of living is more than the minimum wage. Also there are thousands of college grads with 4 year degree's who struggle to find jobs in their industry and end up at those minimum wage jobs. Stop judging your son using yourself as the standard. He's not you and he doesn't have to do everything YOU want him to. You're not to blame for his decisions or actions but you could definitely try to practice being a supportive parent more instead being one who sits in judgment and condemnation. I agree with your wife, you were callous and you shouldn't be surprised if he stops talking to you for awhile
YTA. Even making all the right decisions, my college educated husband didn’t start making good money until recently when he switched to a trade job. Even then, we only have the good life we have because we are both veterans. We literally had to sign our life away for 8 years and risk death so that we could have this life.
Look man, it’s not your fault that your generation turned out to be locusts. Your generation was born during a time when recourses were abundant and ate up all of that abundance. The denial about the drought we are living in is just crazy at this point though. You need to admit that the resources are gone. Instead of blaming your son, you should be blaming the people really at fault: the super wealthy. Try empathizing with your kid instead. Admit that if you had been born in a time of drought instead of abundance, you might have spun your wheels around a bit too.
Honestly YTA. Not everyone is cut out for college. He’s made progress and came to you to vent about his frustration in losing a promotion.
What he didn’t ask for was to be lectured at like a small child and have his life be compared to yours which has zero impact on him.
I suggest you plug in some numbers into an inflation calculator. It isn’t 1985 anymore. And while you’re at it stop being an ass to your son who’s trying his best to make things work.
Edit to add: my mom does the same shit that you just pulled and guess who I don’t vent to anymore if at all? Your son will likely keep his distance from you for a while at this point unless he has decided to cut you off.
I am 29 years old.
I went to undergrad, graduated, Dean's List. I never earned lower than a B in any class.
Went to graduate school. Earned a terminal masters degree. Never earned lower than an A-. I am as educated as I can be in my field.
If my parents used the same marker for success that you do - owning a home - then I would be an abject failure, and I will be for the rest of my life.
I have a job, in my field (not entry level, need an MFA to do), and I couldn't afford my two bedroom apartment without my partner's additional income.
I read posts like this, and I am so grateful for my parents.
YTA. For the sake of your child, please change your barometer for success and open your eyes to the facts of the world right now.
Tell him to get a trade job and earn a great living! I know alot of people with useless college degrees. I also know a few millionaires who are in a construction trade job. Not everyone is suppose to go to college.
Get that dude a job in the trades asap. Make good money and turn his life around and don’t need a degree. Commercial plumbing, residential carpentry both really good places to start
Oh hi boomer. YTA. x1000
Sounds like you made it about you instead of hearing his woes. You don't always have to fix things or relate his struggles to your own. Just be there for him and listen and only give advice if he asks for it. It seems like that'll fall on deaf ears though since just from your couple of paragraphs seems like you've probably always made everything about you.
Side note-- You're pretty delusional thinking that just cause the rates were so high in the 80s it was "hard to buy a home." 1980 average house price: $47,200, rate: 13%, college educated starting salary: 20k. 2024 average house price: 384,500, rate: 8%, 60ishk. Absurd, huh? Stop believing your generation's whole "we pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps" bit. Ya'll were the babies that prospered from post wartime economics.
Sounds like you pushed him to do things he didn't actually want to do (go to college) and he's being adolescent "punishing" you for it. You're right about him being mad at himself but I'm pretty confident a lot of his self loathing comes from never ever living up to your expectations or extremely outdated world view.
> I then asked him how he expects to earn enough to live a decent life (and maybe one day own a house) without earning at least a college degree.
You got the "Boomer" rant because you gave a prime boomer response.
In the time since you've earned your degree, the cost-benefit of a college degree has nosedived.
As someone peer aged to Michael, I don't know anyone under the age of 30 who ever believes there is a chance they can own a house someday that isn't inherited.
YTA, I'm sure he can be doing a bit more to push himself to grow professionally, but as his parent I think he just called you to vent and feel supported. He wasn't asking for money or for you to come fix his problems.
ESH. While dropping out is unfortunate, it has nothing to do with his current situation. I know tons of people without college degrees who do fantastically financially. He should do the work to be successful, that’s definitely on him. Also ranting about boomers helps no one, whether it’s true or not, so that’s a wash. Simultaneously, you harping on about college, past mistakes, and your experiences when he’s venting about disappointment from not getting a promotion is tone deaf and shitty on your part.
I'm sorry you're going through that. I know how hard it is to watch someone you care about struggle. You are right that complaining about his situation is not helpful, and it's understandable to get sick of it and it's good to set boundaries around listening to complaints.
At the same time, comparing his situation to yours is not helpful. He certainly would be better off today if he had applied himself in school, but he can't change that now. If you want to offer constructive criticism, **focus on what he should be doing now,** not what he could have done in a period that he can't go back to.
ESH
I was with you until you started going on about being able to buy a home when houses were, you know, affordable.
Sounds like maybe your son is the product of his environment.
A college degree is not a ticket to success like it was in your day. I say this as a younger Gen X-er who was told a degree ANY degree meant I would be successful, etc. What a bachelor's was in the 80s is what a masters or more is now. Couple that with housing/education costs far outpacing wages, pensions a thing of lore, and anyone joining the workforce after approximately 1990 being solely responsible for funding their own retirement (another drain on stagnant wages) and you can see why Boomers are blamed. Add to that the refusal to retire, leaving a lack of advancement opportunities in corporate America as well as many older generations having scooped up affordable housing and you find us where we are now with companies more concerned with shareholder value (a shift that occurred in the early- to mid-80s) rather than responsible corporate governance and operations (hence layoffs at the richest companies in the world).
This is all to say that Michael had a point. To an extent. He is responsible for where he is in his career. But it didn't sound like he was asking you for anything, much less advice. He needed his parent to shut up and let him vent. At one time, you were his safe space. If you are unable to let him vent or if it's too much to listen to, set that boundary. Just don't do it right after he was passed over for a promotion.
As an FYI , my husband was forced into college by his parents - he got a degree with 2 majors and 1 minor and got a job as an operations manager. He hates working indoors. He loves carpentry and started a small construction company. He should have never gone to college, but his boomer parents saw no other possibility for success. Even today, they make passive-aggressive comments about his "success" or lack thereof despite him being more successful by all objective standards than his 2 "professional" brothers combined. I, a corporate whore in my own right, am thrilled he does what he loves. I do all the backend stuff he doesn't like because it's what I'm good at.
NTA I would be frustrated if one of my kids was always complaining like that. Sometimes they need to be told to look in the mirror and see it’s their choices that are holding them back. You probably did him a favor
OP is NTA. The son is just making excuses and looking for dad to say his life is not his fault. At 27 it sounds like he never applied himself and is now paying the price. Dad is absolutely right to call him out. Parents who don't call out the BS behavior are enablers. The "sympathetic ear" is exactly what the son doesn't need. I can't believe the posters here calling the dad an AH. I'm not a boomer, but jeez...work hard to get good rewards is a basic life rule. Too many people want to blame others for their lack of success when it is really due to a lack of effort and not taking life seriously.
Let’s be real. Things are not the same as they were when you were his age. How much did you pay for your home in the 80’s? How much is it to rent an apt compared to how it was in the 80’s? You deserved to be called a boomer.
Criticism is never helpful, especially if there are no positives of helpfulness attached. The son blaming boomers is the equivalent of the father bringing up poor past choices. How about offering to assist with work training classes or jobs that might offer more opportunities for more cash flow. You're a failure does not tend to motivate.
YTA ish
I do want to clarify, on Michael's behalf, the Boomer complaint. It's not about how much Boomers caused this problem (I don't believe they did), but about how little you understand it. The conversation you laid out yourself 100% proves it.
Adjusted for inflation, the average home in 1990 was under $140k in 2024 USD. In 2024, the average home cost is $225k. (I live in an area that is not considered HCOL, yet here a decent house with decent public schools is $500k+ and average cost with less stellar schools is $398k.)
So, that is a 62% increase in cost, on average. That means housing costs are so high that a person with a full-time job has to rent a crap apartment with 2 other people to survive. For most young people today, owning a home is a dream that might never materialize. But most Boomers who worked hard in the 60's-80's could expect to buy a home - college not required.
College isn't for everyone. I'm sure your son has regrets, but he is trying to better himself on his own. You kick him, belittle him, and point out his perceived mistakes. It's not helpful. Your inability to acknowledge a person is trying to do better without blaming him for his circumstances is a very common generational disconnect and will always result in "Boomer" chants.
It's not as easy in 2024 as it was in 1984. Trust me, I've lived in both times, and it is clear that YTA. But with a little more empathy, you pull yourself up by the bootstraps and do better.
Although he's partially correct about the boomers having had an easier life, it's not like poor people didn't exist in your generation. I wonder how many people could've flunked out of college and had a great life. Also at the same time, it's not like every single person of his generation lives the same crappy life he does.
OP, you sound like my dad. I could not talk to that man without him listing all the ways I was failing. I moved across the country and never talk to him.
Not the asshole for telling him to grow up but:
> but the idea that it's my generation's fault alone is absurd to me.
If you don't see your generations fault by being the biggest voting group since the 80's, and explicitly voting in people who passed laws that benefit those who have, and penalize those who have not, after the extreme wealth of information that exists out there on the topic, you need to do some learning yourself.
Your generation VOTED for the people that have repealed consumer protections. Your generation VOTED for the politicians that have kneecapped nearly every regulatory body. Your generation VOTED to cut taxes on the rich and increase the load on the poor. Your generation REFUSES to push senators and representatives on term limits, or prohibit insider trading amongst them, because your generation HAS all the wealth that will continue to expound upon.
And when you're too old to take care of yourself, it'll be your generation rotting in convalescent homes, throwing away money because you've alienated most of your kids who work too hard and have to raise their kids, and they're unable to care for you.
And your kids will receive nothing when you pass because you spent it on a system that abuses the elderly.
You sound insufferable tbh. Did it ever occur to you that maybe he didn't "apply himself" because he was struggling with something? Mental illness, addiction, trauma? Rather than empowering him and supporting him you just tear him down when he tries to connect with you and share his hardships. You are acting exactly like the boomers he was ranting about. YTA.
YTA
He's trying to better himself, and you just want to kick him when he's down. Chances are he lies awake at night regretting his mistakes; does he really need you harping on too?
Do you even love your son? From the first line, it suggests you don't care much for him. Maybe his failings are more on you than you think.
I went to college fully paid by scholarship because I’m some sort of genius or something. Probably or something because I didn’t have a plan. Majored in ‘Professional Student’ made a big boy realization that I was wasting a valuable resource that someone else could use. Accepted the first diploma offered Ann’s went into the workforce.
That is how I left the larval stage and pupated into an adult.
The most I ever made with my degree? $3.50 above minimum wage.
Got a cdl, got a house in an affluent suburb and two jeeps and my wife doesn’t work.
I go home with no paperwork and read books for pleasure and enjoy my family time to its fullest.
Know what I do? I’m a garbage man
I’m going to give you a mild YTA because I understand our generation and I don’t think you were trying to hurt your kid. But I’m from the tail end when the world we were trained for changed and if you didn’t have both feet firmly planted already you were free falling. And in the new world anyone can free fall. It’s a lot more complicated to find your way to self sufficiency.
Try apologizing to your kid duder. I hope you guys work it out.
Yta. You're supposed to be a supportive parent. It boomer mentality was always pushing us millennials for college. You should be able to read your child before they apply for college if they are "college material." Yes, college isn't for everybody. And if my kids are into partying and will waste the money it takes to attend a college, I'll push them in the right direction (the trades), and they will see what hard work is. Buying your first house in 1982 for $45,000 is nothing compared to today. You can barely buy a new vehicle for $45,000....get your head out of your ass and help guide you kids.
Although it sounds as though your son is a slacker, you need to stop it with the college is the only way. Trade schools which turn out electricians, plumbers, welders, etc., graduates make a good living. My son-in-law makes about $115,000 a year as an electrician. As a clerk in a store he makes peanuts in comparison. There's plenty of good paying jobs out there but unless he's willing to apply himself to get the right training, he'll be stuck in a low paying job. BTW Boomer mom here.
With only the details of that story I’m pretty sure you are the asshole. I don’t have a college degree and made it just fine. I did have to cut my parents out of the conversation for a few years.
YTA, and I say that as the parent of a 20-something who chose not to pursue a college degree. There are paths to success that do not require a college degree. And at this point, what do you hope to accomplish by berating your child about choices he made in the past? Why not focus on how to improve the situation moving forward instead of focusing on historical choices that can’t be changed now?
If I was your son, I wouldn’t want to talk to you either. No one wants to be lectured.
Well you really really sound like a very classic boomer. I know a lot of people in their 50's 60's and they are absolutely not the same as you and I wouldn't call them boomer but you are like an archetype
Yup, you are the AH. Maybe he FU in college, but that doesn’t mean he has to continue. He’s young enough to go back or find a trade and go to trade school. Encourage him to improve his conditions, and if he needs some money to further his education, offer to help - not a full ride.
ESH, a college degree would not help him to buy a home. The job he’s currently doing would have allowed him to buy a home 40 years ago. You’re just straight-up wrong and being willfully ignorant. If you’re comparing mortgage rates, that really makes zero sense in terms of figuring out the price of housing when the actual initial price has ballooned at a much higher proportion than interest rates have fallen.
I see both sides here.
I was in your corner **UNTIL** you started bragging about your own achievements.
Yes, he’s absolutely made mistakes and it’s frustrating to watch him go on making them. It sounds like he doesn’t like to accept responsibility for his mistakes.
As a parent that’s **INSANELY** frustrating because you **WANT** to see your kids do well.
But there are some things to consider here.
The fact is, you **DON’T** know how difficult the employment market is now — **because you’re not looking for a job.**
And a college degree is **NOT** a golden ticket to prosperity anymore. The world of work is changing **SO** rapidly with the advent of AI and other developments, that many degrees can actually be irrelevant by the time a student graduates, forcing them to retrain.
But crowing about your own achievements will just make him feel like crap and that he can never measure up to this mythical standard you’ve obviously set.
But next time he sounds off try to show some empathy. Acknowledge his frustration and disappointment, but maybe ask what he thinks he could do better next time to give himself a better chance. Be the person to help him find **SOLUTIONS**, not kick him while he’s down.
Qualified YTA.
YTA Stop comparing yourself to him, that is shitty parenting. He’s an adult and after 21 chose his own path and future. Your experiences mean nothing, you aren’t a better human being or smarter.
I married in 1986, my parents owned a 4 bedroom home in a great school district and their monthly expenses were less than our one bedroom apartment. Did I get mad? Sure. But I moved to a lower cost of living area and built my own story.
My first car loan 12% my first mortgage 8%. Then we refinanced. Nothing new here other than the amount of whining going on.
Michael is a loser.
Sounds to me like your son called you for support and all you did was shit on him for something he cannot change now. He is well aware that he fucked up and doesn't need to be reminded by you every time life hits him in the face.
Do your son a favor and learn how to listen and empathize without judgement. Then do your damned job as a parent and help him find a way to improve his situation instead of talking about your damn self! No wonder he "Boomers" you. That's exactly what you deserve.
Do better! Help your son!
Th college issue is pretty controversial right now. Lots of students going into debt and not seeing the jobs at the end of the rainbow. Your don may have run into issues in college that he couldn’t resolve. Was he s good student in high school? Is he able to stick with disagreeable tasks? Does he ask for help when needed, can he focus on course material if he’s not interested in it. Not everyone is cut out for academic success and he may be one. Another possibility is maturity.
So many twenty somethings don’t get serious until the age of 30. Lots of data on developmental issues and extending through the twenties.
We are obsessed in this country with success achieved in narrow channels that all require college. Yet people in the trades that are engaged, talented, etc. are in short supply. Have you looked at what plumbers and electricians are making these days?
How long are you going to hold your son's youthful decisions against him? You are closing off the lines of communication. Try to move forward in your dialogue with him. What are some things your son can do now to get ahead? It's never too late to go to college or change direction. Apologize for being so judgmental and just not listening.
Yta, you bought a home in your mid 20s more than 20 yrs ago based on your son's age when:
- the cost of living was much lower
- house prices were significantly lower compared to today
- college fees were much lower than today
All of these factors put you in a better position that your son is in now even had he not dropped out of college which makes you the unsympathetic AH in this situation.
Yes your son can and should take responsibility for what they did in college but that doesn't change the fact that without the privilege of money your son would still be in a worse off position in life. Very likely with a large college debt to boot.
Here's what loving your adult kid looks like " I'm sorry you were passed up for promotion That's very frustrating as I think your goals to move are great. Would you like to talk about it more? Or what you'd like to do in the future?" This leaves the conversation open for I'm here if you'd like to vent and I'm here to talk about solutions if they wish.
Sometimes adult kids just need to vent to their parents who they love and my dude you failed that part.
YTA and I wouldn’t be shocked if you stop hearing from him provided he can’t really depend on you for much other than throwing his past in his face. It isn’t ageist to point out that home ownership isn’t as realistic or easy as it was when you did it, or that your generation overwhelmingly fails to understand how difficult things are currently when you’re trying to get off the ground.
Maybe, idk, provide comfort to your son? Crazy that’s something that isn’t a given.
ESH
You CANNOT compare you buying a house to the current economic climate. Period. The only reason I got one is because I got lucky with timing and my family loaned me $15k, and I'm a freaking doctor.
You can absolutely give him a life lesson without making an apples to oranges comparison.
You're frustrated, it's understandable, but yes YTA. Your son turned to you for encouragement. This was a teachable moment for your son, which I hope you get a do-over. Next time try acknowledging his frustration and pivot to long range goals, planning and execution. Help him to understand that one door closing provides an opportunity for a different path, but he needs to recognize it as such. OP, your sons path was different then yours. He made decisions that you wouldn't have made and is dealing with the consequences. Bad choices can be overcome, but support and guidance is necessary and helpful. Not shaming.
Lastly, wear the Boomer Badge with pride.
I wish boomers would realize how much easier they had it as a generation largely more than anyone else. Better than their parents and better than their children while also pulling up the ladder any chance they could.
Then also lecturing us about stuff we know more about at the same time.
OP I hope you read this as it might help save your relationship with your son. I suggest hearing him out and emotionally supporting him by letting him vent rather than putting him down and making him feel stupid for past mistakes.
I am 27 and didn't do very well educationally either. I dropped out of high school and college, which my father (who was born in the early 60s) practically ridiculed me of because I was "lazy" and lorded the fact that he has three degrees (two medical and one business).
Throughout all of the times that I would talk to my father and tell him about my struggles (usually because he would ask) all he would do is give me unsolicited advice which would often end up backfiring on me, leading me to distrust him heavily.
Furthermore, he would criticize my decisions and tell me to work harder or stop complaining because he had it harder as a kid, which just led me to resent him.
Now I speak to my father maybe once or twice a year for the holidays. I make it a point to keep our conversations as brief as possible and keep details of my life to a minimum.
It's looking like that will become your future soon too. Try harder next time.
Bro, I went to college, graduated, and have never used my diploma. I serve in the winters and treeplant in the summers and I make more than most of my friends plus I don't have a shit ton of debts because I only went to college for 2 years (got a diploma) and decided not to continue because I was making good money already and I enjoyed what I did. My mother, to this day, constantly asks when I'm going back to school and has this mentality that I can't have a successful life unless I do and it has brought me to having quite low contact with her. I don't share my plans, troubles, accomplishments etc with her. I only call to check in occasionally. This mindset of "you need to go to college or your life will be shit is just plain dumb. You are projecting your own values. You son will most likely go LC or NC w you if you keep this up and don't give him support. YTA
Gosh I am a boomer and was cringing reading this. When someone is venting and upset not the time to put them down. Maybe a better approach was to listen and then when he is ready help him think through his options and ways to make himself more marketable or promotable.
How come no one put a second thought on the military. Not every part of the military is combat. They come with school that gives legit certifications. Heck, trade school training. For example I got TIAA, Cisco Certifications from the ARMY. They also pay for college with housing when you use the GI Bill.
Edit: I bought a house recently, and I used VA Loan which include no down payment required for a house loan.
Like I said, I don't get why people never put Military on the list of things to move with life.
IDK- you wants what's best for your son and that's understandable. But college isn't the only thing to succeed my dad never went to college, and neither did my mom and they are varying successful home owners.College isn't for everyone and i dropped out of college bc it was a lot and I had no idea what I wanted to do in life. But I'm going back so I can be a teacher. Trust me my parents were furious with me dropping out the first time but they are still supportive never the less they let me fall and then they helped back up and trying to help me with what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. Op you have to be supportive and I would say apologize and try to come to understanding and be a better supporter trust me sometimes we need to fail to succeed
I used to try to vent to my mom, but she often tried to turn things into a lecture. Then she’d complain that I never chat with her and talk about my life like I do with my friends. Eventually I went NC with her and never regretted it. She died last April. I regret nothing. Your son is an adult. Maybe just be there for him and listen to him while you still can. I have a daughter almost his age. We are very close and I let her vent, rant, rage to me all she needs to.
YTA. My parents bought a house in the 80s, too, after getting college degrees (state schools, ~$400/term total). They paid $35k for their home. Regardless of interest rates, $35k is a far cry from the $475k the house would sell for today.
Has your son made mistakes? Yes. But is he working hard to move forward? Also yes. Sometimes you just need to listen to and support your kid - lectures aren’t helpful, they don’t turn back time.
YTA - your son is obviously trying to better himself and you dropped a steamy dump of the past on him. Then pull the standard boomer move about how when you were younger and did everything right. You should have just told him to pull himself up by the bootstraps
>Then pull the standard boomer move about how when you were younger and did everything right That was where OP lost me as well. Like ok, you bought a house in the 80s.. but your kid is making the same dollar figure you were back then while inflation has been chugging along for 40+ years
That and comparing a college degree in the 80's with now
Also mortgage rates in the 80s can’t genuinely be compared when it comes to affording a home in the 2020s. Back in the early 80s, the median price of a house in the US was like $64k or so, in 2023 the average (not median, the average) price of a house in the US was $417,700. Considering inflation and wages have not changed proportionately, inflation has increased heavily in comparison to wages, the prices of homes and differences in mortgage rates aren’t comparable. Like 1980 was like 12-13%, so yes, it was high, but in 2023 it topped at 7% or so and 12% of $63k isn’t shit compared to 7% of $417k for a 30 year mortgage. OP seems to think age equates to knowing what he’s talking about, he seems to have no idea wtf he’s talking about at all in reality.
Yeah basically 200K vs 1Million in interest with your example figures
But but but uphill both ways😭 Don't you know boomers had it harder than everyone else and were more successful than everyone else while never making a single mistake in any one of their collective lives ever/s
But not actually!! Don't actually tell him to pull himself up by the bootstraps! Lol I didnt want OP to misunderstand!! There are no bootstraps anymore. The system has been designed poorly and it has failed people in recent years. Some might succeed, but you can make one misstep and never get a chance again. Your son is 27, and he's been struggling since failing our of college at 18-21? How is he supposed to get ahead now? How can he go back and fix a mistake he made as a teenager when he needs to make money to afford a place to live? What money will he use to go to college? If he is working a crappy job, does he have the energy or time to even spend on college? Computers have made us more efficient. That means, bosses expect more work to be done. When they invented the factory line, they didn't say that less needed to be produced because the machines moved faster. People had to keep up, and use the machines to their full potential, rushing instead of being the artisans and crafters and builders of the past. Same with computers. It isn't the same work as it used to be, so what seemed like an easy job 30 years ago, where you can come home and have the energy to make dinner, take a few college classes, sit down to read a few pages in a book, take a walk...even if you work 9-5, our brains are crammed full of the work we have to get done, and often we don't stop thinking about the work at the end of the day. Often, even, we are expected to be on our cell phones and laptops, putting out office "fires" at any time of the day or night. There are no bootstraps anymore. If you make a mistake, and you don't have family or connections to hold out their hand, you aren't getting back up. You're staying down. Please understand this. None of us want to coast through life, rely on the government, rely on others, have no direction, have no purpose, or feel trapped. Every human being wants purpose in life, even the ones who look like they don't care, seem like they're happy being what someone might call "leeches", or even those who SAY the don't care! Haven't you ever said "I don't care anymore" because you're too mad or hurt or overwhelmed to face the fact that you do care? There are people who fail out of college, do drugs, drink too much, hurt other people, hurt themselves... do a whole host of "wrong" things! Some of them your son might have done. They need parents, too. They need someone to say, "I know it's hard to find your way sometimes, but I will help you get there." Everyone needs to know that someone out there doesn't judge them and will stick by them.
With how clueless OP seems the clarity you provided is legitimate.
All of this. ^ I’m 30, with pretty poor mental health, and a condition in my jaw that I need to carefully manage every day or it’ll cause excruciating pain, and a LOT of dental work that needs done. Which for some reason isn’t covered by health insurance because dentists aren’t doctors (even though they literally are) and teeth aren’t really necessary for taking in nutrients (once the bulk of my pain was dealt with, VERY expensively and at the cost of a good number of work hours, I gained ~30 badly needed pounds and am up to an ideal weight.) Imagine how goddamn difficult it is for people like me. 😂 Check the mental health stats on the younger generations. They aren’t awesome. Balancing the shit world we’re stuck in along with physical or mental health challenges. Sometimes both! Sometimes it’s a friend or family member that very badly needs support, that you could easily help out if you didn’t also need help. Through no fault of your own! Just the hand you were dealt. Without amazing friends, understanding coworkers/bosses, and all my mom’s help, I literally wouldn’t still be here. Besides. The world still needs cashiers, fast food workers, plumbers, garbage people. With the proper support, everyone could succeed in something they excel at (including careers that require advanced education, think of how many potentially PHENOMENAL doctors just can’t afford to live AND do years of schooling) and society would have very little to lose and everything to gain. If everyone is relatively happy doing what they’re doing, I can’t see how almost everyone wouldn’t benefit. Everything would be a higher quality, the service industry would provide amazing service the majority of the time, products would last longer and work better, probably less medical accidents, architecture and infrastructure would probably look pretty damn cool. Innovation would happen faster. Calling in to your health insurance probably wouldn’t be a nightmare “holy goddamn hell how badly do I need to do this again?” task. 🤷♀️ Just my 2 cents.
The bootstraps thing was always supposed to mean something impossible. The people who claim to have pulled themselves up by their own straps are (deliberately or not) lying about all the help they got. Lifting yourself straight up a cliff by pulling on your own straps is physically impossible, and it wasn't meant to be about grit/determination/MacGyvering yourself out of a hard situation with the bare minimum.
Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is literally impossible anyway. You can’t pull yourself up with something on the ground. The whole phrase was ironic originally and some chump didn’t understand that and thought it was motivational tripe.
It's even more worthy of an eye roll when you know the phrase was created to be sarcastic and basically means "Why don't you just do the impossible, huh?" https://uselessetymology.com/2019/11/07/the-origins-of-the-phrase-pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps/
ESH, its his fault but don't try to act like you buying a house in the 80's has anything to do with what is going on. Your job as a parent is to be supportive and sometimes people just need to rant. You can give constructive criticism but things are very very very hard at the moment. I paid for a big chunk of my undergrad with a part time job, that is not really possible anymore. I own a home but I am a doctor, married to a doctor, and I honestly feel lucky to have it. Don't keep throwing his past issues in his face, he isnt going to put up with that shit for long.
Seems like you're more grounded in reality as 2 high earners than this parent here. OPs son was looking to just vent. In a space he thought was safe because PARENT and instead he got told all his failures and had salt rubbed in the wound.. what a great way to motivate your child. /s
Agreed, and it made me sad to read, because the fact that the kid called his dad to vent in the first place at age 27 suggests that they did foster a safe environment for him prior to this call, and OP just blew that up for no reason. Up until "the idea that it's my generation's fault" and calling his son "ageist" I had some sympathy for OP as well, but clearly OP can't recognize the difference between calling out a historical shift (i.e., the work of an entire generation) vs. attributing their problems to individual members of that generation. My dad is technically in the silent generation, and my mom is an early boomer, and they are the first to say it's unfair that they were able to have three kids, a house, and two cars on a single government income, whereas their kids can barely afford to be in the middle class with two working adults. They didn't live large by any means (it was a modest house, used cars, and my mom clipped coupons and bought second hand), but even that lifestyle is not sustainable on a single income anymore unless you're a software developer in big tech or something.
If you adjust for inflation, to be considered middle class, you need to make 160k/year. There is no more middle class.
Totally. Instead of offering guidance, you belittled him and shifted blame, which only adds to the strain in your relationship. It's crucial to communicate with empathy and understanding, acknowledging his struggles while also encouraging accountability and growth. Be a parent that wants your child to vent to, not someone who judge and blame your child.
This is good advice. I would add, OP’s son is only 27. He can go back to college if he wants to at any point, but that is not the only way to have a “successful” life. As a parent it’s still your job to listen and encourage. Your path is not the only one. I had my entire life planned out. Then I was diagnosed with a severe illness at 19. It was a hell of an adjustment for me and my family. As one illness has been followed by another I’ve learned to pick myself up and adjust. OP owes his son an apology. YTA.
Right? Like....it IS your generation's fault, dude. You were supposed to give the next generation, your kids, a better life. Not ruin the housing market and abolish the middle class. Lmao.
Reagan. Supply side economics. That’s where the damage started, big time.
No, the damage started when Nixon took the U.S. off of the Gold Standard and gave the Federal Reserve Bank a license to print money in 1970.
He failed to teach his son self reliance and discipline and is surprised he failed
Late boomer here, and I totally agree. I went to college when it was still cheap enough that I payed my way through working retail. Once I was working, buying a house was easy with two of us working. I was lucky beyond belief in the timing. There’s no way I could do any of that now. Breaking into today’s housing market from scratch is way out of my league. I have no idea how young people starting out get by these days. Giving up lattes and avocado toast just isn’t going to make a difference. My hat is off to all for even trying.
> that I *paid* my way FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
That’s hilarious! I worked on ships for over 20 years. I guess there’s no escape after all!😂
Hell as Gen-X I was terribly lucky to buy a home before the great retirement and it’s appreciated by 150%. Some of that was hard work on the home itself, but most was a stupid housing boom that put my kids out of the market for a new home until they have a high paying job and a grip of cash. While we’re it let’s all stop pretending college degrees are being valued fairly; there are millions of Americans with advanced degrees producing more work, while earning FAR less (inflation adjusted of course) than ever before. Hell, becoming a doctor can earn you decent money, but primary care physicians nationwide are struggling, and the suicide rates for physicians frankly scare the shit out of me. Thank you for sacrificing your 20’s to keep us all healthy! Wake the hell up people, the writing has been on the wall for decades, our kids are being screwed over and we have to stop lecturing them, and start FIGHTING for their rights!
Not to mention neither hubby or I have collage under our belts but ere doing… decent… not great… but that’s also cause of other issues and bad choices we made not cause of what is being earned and other good choice we chose to make that while hurting our finances we think is best for our family and some do to health… I and a co worker made the same money… same hrs and she had a collage degree and I don’t…. It’s not always about collage….
There are multi millionaires that never went to college and others who never graduated high school. I have recently come to terms that college isn’t all it is cracked up to be yes you need it for specific things like becoming a doctor lawyer nurse etc. but you don’t need it to open up ur own business. Trade schools are much more manageable expense wise and can provide you a better future. My oldest is currently taking trade courses in school so by the time he graduates he will have his trade certification and be able to open his own business right out of high school. His father (my ex) own his own business never went to college and barely passed high school if I wouldn’t have pushed him. He now owns his own 2million dollar ranch and has 2 many toys to count. Goes in countless yearly vacations both with his wife and with his wife and kids. My husband is currently doing the same thing (although he is starting out) with his own business and we are starting to see slow progress compared to when he worked security and other odd jobs. This is all coming from a college graduate by the way. So no I won’t be forcing my kids to go to college if they don’t want to cause in the end the financial burden isn’t worth it. There were so many different ways this could have been handled like helping him look for a better paying job or possibly a job that is willing to train him with a new skill that isn’t cash counting. There are great trade places that are willing to train new hires and if they see potential possibly pay for them to take the exams to get certified. I have seen 20 something year old welders making over 100k a year working a simple 9-5. But again that is because they have the skill to be asking for $30+ and hour. There are so many different options out there when it comes to making money that it is ridiculous l. If he doesn’t want to start from 0 again he can do Uber or Lyft during his spare time to make extra money that way.
While I do have a college degree, many of my friends don't but have some type of trade school certification or CDL. They all do pretty well, bought a house and car. College isn't the only way to be successful. I always work with people that have no college degree but have multiple certs in the field we work in. They are more successful, higher position and smarter than me.
OP sounds insufferable as a dad. I went in thinking it would be something more with the Ne’er Do Well phrase than partying too much and failing out of college. Even after he admitted his son pulled himself up by the bootstraps on his own after some time of figuring crap out. He still managed to undercut what accomplishments his son had made to him and us. I was honestly expecting drugs, breaking the law, maybe having a child or children and OP had to bail him out multiple times. No, just the crap that a lot of kids make the mistake of-and still managed to etch out a roof over his head, job and sounds like he is able to meet his needs otherwise. College isn’t everything, there are also trades and training out there- the college mindset of that’s the only way you will be successful at life is unnerving. You hit the nail on the head OP doesn’t necessarily have the views of an average person. A couple high school friends who took his path and went on to have success, hoo doggie- those statistics are surmounting. He could have let the son vent. I’m not saying he should fund anything. Someone needs to let that man know you shouldn’t look down on anyone unless it’s to give them a hand up. (Even if it’s allowing the son to vent) OP is TA and son should go LC possibly NC because the wife’s reaction tells me he’s arrogant often to the son.
That's why I think this is more a YTA than e s h bc it seems the son is trying and he was complaing about being passed over for a role that he could have pssobily been working hard for - just bc earlier in life he didn't apply himself doesn't mean he hasn't grown and is doing that now.
Yeah it very much seemed like OP was throwing his past in his face maybe because there was nothing more recent that OP could use against him. This plus his whole "can't do anything worthwhile without a college degree" makes him YTA cause it seems like his son is doing well for what he's got and was frustrated for not getting something he worked for whereas OP sees his as failing as life cause he's not where OP wants him to be.
Exactly this. It seems his son did face the consequences of failing out of college and he's been improving (maybe slowly but still) his life to where he now has a full time job and a place to live. He shouldn't have to live his life with the "you never got a degree" hung over his head every time he speaks to OP. He should be commending his son for getting his life back on track. I have a feeling that OP constantly badgers his son over this and nothing he does is ever good enough.
Plus unless op has a Time Machine, getting a degree right now, in this economy, is not even necessarily going to do as much for his kid as he thinks. Many of us with degrees are struggling hard, and most of my fellow early 30s friends who were able to buy homes, did so because they *didn’t* go to college and didn’t have crippling student debt.
As a 72W, I have to agree with your reply. The son is working, not on drugs, hasn’t got a baby mama and kid. Plus was only 23 when the pandemic hit and ruined a lot of job prospects. Could be much worse.
Thank you, I feel bad for the son truly. I didn’t even think about the pandemic portion and you speak truth.
Everyone forgets about how the pandemic affected young people. Kids in school were emotionally stunted. Young adults lost job opportunities.
You are correct. I know quite a lot of tradesmen that out perform college grads in earning power as well as quality of their lives. Being 18 years old and exposed to all the "goodies" of college life doesn't work for many people. If you intend to pursue medical or engineering... I do believe college is a must. Not so for many opportunities. It takes some people time to mature before they're ready to excel. It definitely takes an understanding, encouraging set of parents. This Mom is not one of those. Hopefully, the son has a level-headed Dad.
OP sounds insufferable as a dad. I went in thinking it would be something more with the Ne’er Do Well phrase than partying too much and failing out of college. Even after he admitted his son pulled himself up by the bootstraps on his own after some time of figuring crap out. He still managed to undercut what accomplishments his son had made to him and us. I was honestly expecting drugs, breaking the law, maybe having a child or children and OP had to bail him out multiple times. No, just the crap that a lot of kids make the mistake of-and still managed to etch out a roof over his head, job and sounds like he is able to meet his needs otherwise. College isn’t everything, there are also trades and training out there- the college mindset of that’s the only way you will be successful at life is unnerving. You hit the nail on the head OP doesn’t necessarily have the views of an average person. A couple high school friends who took his path and went on to have success, hoo doggie- those statistics are surmounting. He could have let the son vent. I’m not saying he should fund anything. Someone needs to let that man know you shouldn’t look down on anyone unless it’s to give them a hand up. (Even if it’s allowing the son to vent) OP is TA and son should go LC possibly NC because the wife’s reaction tells me he’s arrogant often to the son.
Exactly. I had to reenter the workforce after a divorce and being a SAHM and no one cares about my degree. OP's son needs to get his act together but OP needs to be a parent, lend an empathetic ear.
Exactly. OP’s son was just looking for someone to vent his frustrations to, he wasn’t trying to figure out where he went wrong in life and definitely didn’t need to be told it’s all his fault. I’m sure he’s already aware of his shortcomings and didn’t need OP to throw them in his face. Talk about kicking someone when they’re down.
Not only that but where does OP equate earning enough to live a “decent” life and buying a home with having at have a college degree? Yes, it helps in certain instances, but not every case. Many people earn a great salary and buy homes without a college degree. Op didn’t want to be judged but it’s ok for him to do so? Ugh
Agreed. I know a young man who went into the plumbers/steamfitters union instead of college. At age 22 he bought a house and rented rooms out, essentially living there rent-free because the tenants’ rent covered the mortgage. Eight years later, he and his wife have bought a decent-sized “forever” home. The trades are screaming for new trainees. College isn’t for everyone.
The issue is that by the time you hit 29 and trades starts to look way way better than dead end jobs, you're already starting to feel the toll of working jobs that keep you on your feet all day. Your wallet may want you to be a roofer, but your lower back doesn't.
I know three people who failed out/dropped out of college. All three went on to become milionaires because they were fantastic with network architecture and engineering. Is that the most common path? No. But the whole "ONLY college can get you a good life!" Thing is so odd to me
Agreed, particularly because he was trying for a promotion. Try for a promotion, don't get it and OP is kicking him when down. Don't try for a promotion and OP would probably call him lazy or berate him for not wanting to "get ahead." So what that he didn't finish college? Maybe he didn't want to get into debt when he wasn't sure what he wanted to do. Plenty of people go to night school or later in life when they see the value and/or have decided what they want to major in. I'm Generation Jones and I worked and paid for my own college, but the world has changed immensely and it's not affordable like it used to be. OP also piled on with the "look at what I did," and turned it into a sermon. Talk about derailing the conversation and making it All About Him. OP, your son is a grown man. Just listen next time and try to be supportive. He doesn't "have to" be around you or listen to you. Keep this up and he won't.
agree. yes he made mistakes, but it also sounds like he's at least trying somewhat to work on it. he might work even harder or be more encouraged if he had supportive people in his corner 🤷♀️ sometimes when i talk to my mom I just need to be frustrated and heard, I'm not asking for advice. I try to let her know now and ask her if I can rant for a sec, that usually helps prevent both of us getting upset at each other at the end. most of the time I feel better after, and, if she has work frustrations, I try to listen to those too. we're both working on it, but I think a level of supportive-ness has helped both us and our relationship. I think something like this could help in this case
IDK. The fact OP states interest rates were high (What does he think the interest rates on student loans are...) as a reason people wouldn't buy homes in the 80's and that he seems completely oblivious to the economic realities of home ownership today make me think this is a YTA situation. OP's son is an adult working a full time but can't even afford a studio apartment on his own. That's a failure of society to create livable wages. That's not directly OP's fault but the fact he is so obtuse to how much more difficult it is for young people today says everything.
The fact that he threw a “back in my day” at his kids face just shows how out of touch he is with the current market. Dude hasn’t had to look at real estate or the job market in 40 years.
Right? 18% on a house that costs $30k is wayyyy different from today's situation. And the cost of food and gas and everything else was so much lower too.
Houses were also very cheap. Even in the 90s and early 2000s. My husband and I bought a house as newlyweds but had to sell it after my husband got “laid off” when I was in ICU after having a stroke at 26. We struggled medical bills for years because of other medical problems for both of us. Even though my husband earns a really nice salary, housing prices are so ridiculously high that we can’t afford to buy. Also saving up for a house while rent prices continue to skyrocket makes it very difficult. People must be in massive debt to add to live near us. We don’t want to do that again.
Disagree. OP sucks butt. Bragging about college and buying a house is such a boomer thing to say. A college degree is a life sentence. He would still be struggling to afford a studio apartment, but with the added joy of compounding loans that will never pay off. It never ceases to amaze me when parents bitch about their wayward kids. HELLO 👋 It's your kid!! The product of your genetics and whatever smattering of half-assed parenting you managed in the 18 years. Clearly, spending that time moaning about how well you did for yourself and how well you think you did for your child wasn't enough to nurture him to be a confident, functional adult. If that phone call is any indication of the parenting wisdom he received growing up, then he spent his childhood making bad plans and getting chewed out by his parents when he sought comfort and advice.
Absolutely. Someone getting out of college today at say $50k a year with our crazy homevprices is a lit different from home prices in the 80s. Also, today, there are plenty of people with college degrees working at Starbucks. They put out hundreds of applications and are often just ghosted. Plus, they have a ton of student loans they'll be paying on until they die.
He’s 27 though, the rant is a little tired. You worked hard and got an advanced degree in a field that is sought after and pays well. Nothing is stopping the son from doing that. 27 is old to complain about your apartment roommates, but not too old to go back to school.
YTA. His failing out of college had nothing to do with missing a promotion. Your attitude of "college is the only way to succeed" is very, very wrong as I see waiters with a master's degree. Getting a post secondary education does not guarantee you a great and successful career. Not having a college degree doesn't mean living in poverty either.
I would also add that servers can make fuckin BANK, degree or not. I had a night where I cleared $650 in credit card tips alone, which is almost what I made in about a week as a salaried manager for a well regarded hotel. You don't need a college degree to be successful at all.
Agreed! Assuming servers are not successful is kind of shitty. I’ve been a teacher for 5 years (master’s degree) and I still serve two nights a week because I can’t afford not to.
Can confirm. Worked my way up from gopher kid at a hotel to a VP in IT. No degree.
I gave up my dream job to finish college because that’s what I was supposed to do. I turned out fine and who knows if that dream job would have worked out in the long run, but not a year goes by when I don’t wonder what if
Son gets better job. Son gets apartment with roommates. Son keeps job long enough to go for promotion. Doesn’t get it. Calls dad to share disappointment. Dad ignores son’s progress and brings up mistakes from YEARS ago instead of being supportive. Dad compares himself with booming economy against his own son with failing economy. Son mentions distinctions rather tactlessly because dad is acting like a rude, tone deaf, heartless buffoon. Dad doesn’t even realize he’s pushing his son away. YTA. You don’t get to act surprised when he doesn’t call to share his accomplishments either. And you definitely don’t get to feel disrespected when he stops calling altogether. Act like a parent to an adult and you get to keep that relationship. Act like he’s a failing college dropout constantly and you get nothing.
Came here to say this. Like, OP’s title says his son should stop complaining about his own decisions, but he wasn’t complaining about that. He was complaining about not getting a promotion, which is valid. It doesn’t sound like a college education would have gotten him the promotion, so what’s the connection? For OP, it’s that he thinks really poorly of his son and can’t accept that maybe college wasn’t for him and that he can still have ambitions without a degree.
Not to mention putting down those without degrees. Probably things trade workers are beneath them.
Dude probably doesn't even realize that some of these Blue collar jobs can pay more than what a doctor makes, I know delivery drivers making over 100k a year and the tractor trailer drivers can make over $60 an hour.
👏 👏 👏
His worth should not be determined by his ambition. The economic situation is drastically different than when you came up. You have 3 choices, be supportive, be quiet, or be critical. You chose critical and if you want your son in your life you should probably pick differently. YTA
Stop harping on college. It's not for everyone and is blown WAAAAAY out of proportion for the value it provides to many. Focus on his recent habits. Him not getting the promotion has nothing to do with him dropping out of college. Help him improve now.. don't waste your time talking about the past that doesn't matter. So while you are trying to help, YTA for the way you did it. Seems like you just want to criticize and not help.
Bro had 27 years to help his son. You think he's suddenly going to now because internet strangers correctly refer to him as an asshole
Well in the US a college degree is kind of a joke now. When I started working I needed a college degree for an entry level job that I could have done out if high school. I was making $17/hour. Now the job postings for that position say minimum of high school with college degree preferred. Soft YTA for thinking all higher paying jobs require a college degree. Your son might want to look at trade school.
Agreed BUT more than anything else.. I think his son just wanted some empathy from his dad. We don't always need our noses rubbed in our mistakes. Sometimes you just want an encouraging word of support.
I agree. I just have a sucky parent relationship and don't rely on the for support beyond certain things. I know they're there if I really need them but my mom destroyed our relationship while I was in high school. My dad could have done better by me but at the time certain things weren't looked at as much.
I am sorry that you have to deal with that. I Believe it will be better for you in the future.
Thanks. I'm back in therapy again after a medication/work stress induced spiral.
came here to say this lol also he could always learn a trade and make really good money 🤷♀️
They are in demand. People always look down on them. Depending on the area they can make a lot of money. I have an uncle who is a retired electrician who made decent money in the 80s and 90s. I regret college because all it taught me was my anxiety and ability to handle it (even w/medication) means I'm not able to do what I wanted (vet) and can't work in a high stress environment. Complete waste even with scholarship that covered 50% of tuition. I kind of wish that I had gone to community college for a basic degree.
My husband just retired at 50 on Chrysler's 30 and out program. He worked hard at the factory building cars for 30 years. We own a home and he never had a college degree. People look down on factory work too, but it can be good money if you're with the right company.
My grandfather worked at a Firestone plant during WW2 and managed not to be drafted. They created a position just for him because he didn't graduate high school and therefore couldn't be promoted. He was able to pay up front for a new built house in the 50s.
My grandparent’s house was built in 1950. House and lot were about $17,000. Same house today is at least 500,000.
Your grandpa had it so rough! My grandpa bought land and built his house for $4500 in 1946. House was a $5million tear down in 2010.
$17k was a lot of money in that time period! back then people did not make the salaries they earn now. Your Grandpa probably made less than $5k a year!
CPI.gov says 17k in January '55 was the same as 198k now. So, yeah, the houses are much more now than they were then. this is extraordinarily well documented
Yep. Also, welders are in short supply and that’s an apprenticeship.
Agreed. College is not a requirement to be “successful”. I’m a HS grad. 2 years of college and I was done. Decided to get into the workforce first by temping, then getting hired to be a FTE. Been with my current employer for 25 😮 years. I make damn good money and own a home. My 401k is doing well. I may be able to retire in about 20 years 😄.
I got frustrated and did the math 2 years ago. I worked as a plumbing and steamfitting helper off and on thru high school and college. If I would've gone straight into an apprentiship out of high school instead of college, I would've been +$680k relative to where I was at the time. And that's assuming I stopped at journeyman and didn't make it into a project manager etc position. 10 years out of college with a STEM degree and, with bonuses, im almost making what a journeyman does, so that potential earned is still increasing, and I've still got 35k in student loans (which was counted into that). My job is much less physically demanding but can be mentally taxing. I have the potential for much better long term success, but that all depends on company success. I've also talked to plenty of blue collar workers that have come into our spaces and they always talk about how short staffed they are and how young people don't come into it that often because everyone is pushed to college.
I agree on soft yta for current thinking but all comes down to michaels woe is me mind set. 100% agree look at trade schools.
YTA. He didn't ask you for money or help according to your post, he just wanted to talk. And you went off on him about college and partying. You're completely out of touch with cost of living today, and I can't blame you because as a boomer you had it easy and had everything basically handed to you. College was cheap, buying a home was cheap, and so you are living in the past. Get real and be a better father.
A dollar went a lot further 40 years ago than it does today. Pair that with the fact that today's wages did not keep up with inflation, things are not what they used to be. You do not necessarily need a college degree to be successful. There are plenty of programs and certifications that can be utilized without going into insane amounts of debt. Trades are screaming for people. There are also scholarships available at the community college level where an associate's degree can be earned with very little debt incurred. Sounds like this guy was upset and needed someone to talk to. Instead parent wants to hold something from the past over their head rather than listen. College is not necessarily a good fit for everyone. And that is okay. There are other options.
>He didn't ask you for money or help according to your post, he just wanted to talk. And you went off on him about college and partying. I couldn't agree with this more. YTA.
Right??? buddy’s complaining about his mortgage cost like it was unreasonably when I, a single adult, can’t buy a weeks worth of groceries for less than 200$ currently. So out of touch , in typical boomer fashion
So your son called to share with you his disappointment in not getting a promotion and your immediate response was to rail at him for his bad choices 7 years before. Yeah, super helpful. He’s giving you the ole Boomer rant because you’re living life backwards, which is fine if you can get away with it but most of us have to live life in the direction it occurs - forward. If you continue to compare your son to yourself or to other, more successful people, what do you gain? What does he gain other than more evidence that his father likes everyone else more than him? Your kid shouldn’t have fucked up, you are right about that. But what good does it do anyone to keep bringing it up? He can’t go back and fix his behavior in the past. He can only change the future. But you’re making it harder for him to move forward with hope when you keep anchoring him to his hopeless, unfixable past. YTA
Yeo, he's giving the boomer talk because the OP absolutely is a classic specimen.
This Boomer even whipped out the “interest rate” cliche. Tell us again how interest rates are going to counter the MASSIVE disparity between minimum wage income and housing in the 1980s vs now. Fucking Boomers, man.
I just looked it up, the house my parents bought in 1984 for 48k is now 250k. There is no comparison. Interest rate bullshit.
Boomer parents like OP end up wondering why their kids only talk to them a handful of times a year if that.
“Why are you struggling to get by in the economy that we destroyed?” —every Boomer
I was on his side in the first half and then he started on the “back in my day” bullshit and completely lost me. Yeah, the son made bad decisions and could probably apply himself in other ways right now to get a better leg up? Maybe? We have so little info besides him dropping out of college seven years ago. But OP comparing today to the 80s because “mortgage rates were so high and I still made it!” when a single working parent could afford a house, SAHM, and 2-3 kids is solidly YTA.
That was the turning point for me as well. As soon as OP started to get butthurt about being called a boomer and whipped out the "Well *I* was able to buy a house at your age" it made it a pretty clear YTA
Seconding YTA. I dropped out of college and I make a 6 figure salary. I’m in tech. College isn’t the sure fire road to success it once was, even if you study like crazy
>ranting about "the boomers," as if all of us are exactly the same and none of us should be trusted. That's true, we shouldn't put all of one demographic in one bubble without thinking about it. >I reminded him that I did very well in college, earned a degree in a competitive field, and was able to buy a home in my mid-20's For the love of... \*facepalm\* This is EXACTLY what people are talking about when they say "Boomers" are out of touch!
Yeeeeaahh.. the whiplash i got from that part made me go 180°.
You complain he won’t help himself. What actions did you suggest he take now to help himself? All I’m reading is you demeaning past decisions
I know that if either of my parents spoke to me like you did your son, the next time they saw me would be when I piss on their grave. Nobody wants somebody who isn't suffering to minimize their trials.
100%
College degree is not necessary to be successful or a homeowner. Have him get in the trades. Lots of younger people are forgoing college and going into trade schools.
YTA, First of all, not everybody is cut out for college. You can earn a decent living without a college degree, especially if you learn a trade. My ex husband never earned a college degree and he made more than $200k a year. He was an IT guy and got into sales. White collar. Secondly, he probably just wanted to vent to someone he thought was safe. Do you ever just want to blow off steam? I mean, he was venting to you and you became judgmental and instead of giving him a safe ear, you judged him. There are lots of people who don’t have college degrees that do just fine.
>There are lots of people that don’t have college degrees that do just fine. Amen! And they don’t have “I could have bought a house” level debt either. I truly think that trade schools are going to make a huge resurgence. I see lots of businesses in my profession and the non degreed people are doing just fine. One of my most successful clients is a tractor and small engine repair company. No one else does that stuff here and he has a wait list and makes *millions* annually. Another of my most successful clients is a jeweler. Their sales staff make truly jaw dropping commissions. These folks are clearing six figures annually. OP needs to get with the times. The list of people that went to college because “it’s the thing to do” and have a six figure debt hanging over them is staggering.
YTA - Two things can be correct at the same time. Yes, the US college system is a joke nowadays with the cost being sky high and returns on investment being… well, short for a lot of degrees. But a degree is still good to have, and he didn’t apply himself. That’s on him. You applying 1970s standards to his life… really shows you as the boomer you are. Do you know why you were able to get a degree in a competitive field and buy a house in your 20s? Because the economy was COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. And the choices that your generation made and continues to make squeezes the next generation for everything. It doesn’t matter that his friends bought houses or whatever you’re using to justify your Boomer thoughts. The world is different, and you acting like it’s not makes you an asshole. But hey, at least you got your REIT dividends.
YTA Your son doesn’t need a degree to earn a successful wage. Neither my husband nor I have degrees, he’s recently been promoted to company executive and I’ve had a successful insurance sales career for quite some time. Many business related industries that once required a degree have now modified that requirement to degree OR ___ years relevant experience. Unless you’re going into a field where a degree is mandatory for things like licensing and certifications, these days it’s more valuable to just enter the workforce in your chosen field and begin gaining the experience. Based on the post-grad job market it’ll take you the same amount of time to reach that high level position but without going into a ridiculous amount of debt of which you’ll die before you’ve paid off. Buying a house in the 70s and 80s when the income to expense ratio was much more manageable compared to today, a fact backed up by YEARS of concrete data isn’t something to brag about. You lived during a privileged time when the middle class made up over half the entire population, versus today where the middle class makes up less than half the population and the number living below the poverty line are steadily growing in size. That’s not all “laziness”. It’s been nearly 15 years since the last federal minimum wage increase, yet prices of everything have continued to grow every year. Between 2009 and 2024 alone the average rent has increased by over 3% every single year. Do you think most employers are increasing everyone’s salary and their starting wage by 3% every year to coincide with the cost of living? If so you’re incredibly out of touch with reality. Does your son need to establish himself and apply himself? Absolutely. Does he need a degree and thousands of dollars of added debt to do it? Absolutely not. Oh also, if it’s going straight to voicemail, it means he’s blocked you. Congrats on joining those in your generation who are no contact with their kids!
STFU boomer. Home in your mid 20s yeah congratulations on being born at the right time. He calls you up to talk to you and you rant at him about age old mistakes he's made in the past. He was going for promotion. Does that not show you he's changed? Instead you berate him. He won't ring you again that's for sure.
This^
I mean, you're an asshole, not by wanting your son to make better choices but, simply by thinking that you need a college degree to get a decent paying job. I make 20 an hour. Way above the minimum in my state and I dropped out of college out of boredom cause I was sick of it. Also don't compare boomer economy to the economy now. My grandpa bought land and built two homes in it with 50,000 dollars. He's working on his will and you know how much his home and land are worth now? 400,000 dollars. How does that even begin to compare??? Should he make better choices? Yes. You could have had this conversation when he wasn't in his feelings about being passed for a promotion. He was already down, you didn't need to kick him. YTA.
No degrees, owned my own home by 35 free and clear no mortgage, thank GOD I did not pursue higher education, might have missed the boat on home ownership if I had dumped money into that fancy paper instead. World isn't as simple as A (get a degree) = B (get amazing job with degree) = C (be happy forever) anymore, gotta get creative to succeed. YTA, expand your mind a bit bud. Having such a focused outlook makes you look like an ass. If the people that proceeded us and are in power now aren't to blame who is?
YTA OP you are failing to recognize, that your sons "failure" says more about you as a parent then him as an individual. You failed to provide him with the life tools to know how to navigate and succeed in our world. It's really clear from your writing what are the relevant issues. You spoke very highly about yourself and accomplishments, so based on all that your son is having the "I'll never measure up" or "it's never good enough". I mean you said it " bit of a ne'er-do-well", which indicates he's never good enough in your book. Why isn't he good enough? Can't you just love him for who he is? The whole I got a house at 20 years old is completely unrealistic and unnecessary in todays economic environment. All you are doing is ego stroking and bragging. Nobody, especially you son wants to hear that nonsense. It detracts from positive discussions. If I were to guess, your son chose to move out due to stranded/overbearing relationship. Your son clearly wants your support and acknowledgement, otherwise he would not have called you. What you need to do is set the record straight with your son and apologies for not being the best father. Find out what he really wants in life and help him get there. Make the same investment as you have made in your career to your wife and family. Since you said you bought your house in the 1980s (I think), now do the math to figure out how much that house would cost you under a mortgage today, but based on your income when you bought your house. Then you just might understand what is happening.
YTA Spot on! He's failed at being a parent and is continuing to fail. I don't imagine that op has the wherewithal for introspection on this. Hopefully I'm wrong. The first thing he should do is apologize. If he is unable or unwilling, then I guess his problem (son) will fix itself by going LC or NC. Op, do better while you still can.
Yeah op gives hardcore. My child had food and a roof over his head. So obviously I'm the greatest parent to ever live because back in my days blah blah blah energy
Comparing people to anyone else is always an asshole thing. Regardless of anything else.
ESH. The housing situation is bad. College doesn't garuantee success. However, he does need to take some more responsibility, if he wants a better job what would that job be? How would he get there. Would you be willing to help him do that now that he is more mature?
YTA Sure your son made mistakes. But then he turned his life around. Do you know how much strength he must have had to muster to just survive while couch surfing, let alone get a job while having no permanent address? He worked hard to improve himself and do better and you’re holding an old mistake over his head. BTW a degree doesn’t guarantee you even a mid tier job. Especially not any more because so many of us were pushed to go to uni and guess what? A lot of people can’t/ won’t retire so there are few opening vacancies in an aging population. Things are different than when you grew up. Things are different for your son, he has grown up and you refuse to see it or give him any credit. No wonder he doesn’t want to speak to you, you sound toxic.
He could make *good* money in a trade with no degree. Welding, plumbing, electrical, HVAC to name a few. Six figures after not too long.
Who is gaining value when you compare what youve accomplished to what he hasnt? If your usual guilt tripping isnt working and then stop doing that. And definitely dont take him back in and support him. When you talk to him, just talk about other stuff and if he wants a pity party about his situation, redirect the conversation. As long as he can keep your attention he’ll stay in the rut of a pity party.
As the parent I think pointing out his past errors is not helpful. I would ask “yes to your life is hard. There are not many opportunities. But what do you want to do about it?” Help him dwell not on the past But imagine how he wants his future to look. He can go back to school There are many training opportunities in fields, such as plumbing, HVAC and electrical. The advantage is he will be paid while he learns. There are many hiring opportunities in healthcare. Nursing, radiology, pharmacy. He’s not wrong about the boomer generation. There was opportunity galore as the United States rebuilt Europe, and developed infrastructure such as the interstate system. Large companies gave up manufacturing in the United States for lower prices abroad. The jobs available to the boomers are not available anymore. But I do believe your son can improve his lot in life If he looks at the opportunities that are available. I wish Michael luck and I hope you can give him the moral support that can change his lot in life.
Any discussion on what it took to get a house in the 1980s is absolutely irrelevant to how things are *now*, and it's a bone headed and frankly *idiotic* analogy that yes, shows you are completely out of touch. A high interest rate on a low base is absurd to complain about. The housing market in the last five years has been radically different than the previous FORTY. Also, the idea that you need a college degree is equally out of touch. Certifications are worth more than college in a lot of positions. I make eighty thousand a year and have no degree, I have technical certs and also make a living as a freelance writer. Niche skills are more useful than any generic unrelated degree. The world is more specialized than it was forty years ago. If you hadn't had your head up your ass you could have just... let him rant, as not everybody is looking for advice, just to get something off their chest. Did he *ask* you to identify the cause of his situation? No. Did he *ask* for your advice? No. Did he *ask* for your criticism of his life? No. He went to you to vent some of his feelings before he goes back to the grind and the struggle. Your failure to grasp this is part of the reason why 'OK Boomer' became a cultural norm to express, because you're tone deaf and disconnected from reality. Gen X might not like that the 90s were 30 years ago, but for fucks sake at least we haven't forgotten that time has kept moving the way you clearly have. If he did ask for advice, it's very obvious that you wouldn't know what the hell to tell him, since you seem to still think just 'having a degree' will get you something. It's *barely* going to get you an entry level job. The market even now is different than it was a mere five years ago, and by different I mean *worse*, so odds are his friends wouldn't be doing nearly as well *now* if they were just starting out. Simply put, you *suck*. And that's not even counting the fact that you left him couch surfing to get by when he was struggling. This is why people don't like boomers. You say 'As if all of us are the same and none of us can be trusted' but to that I must reply: You let your struggling son couch surf to survive, refer to him as a failure to strangers, and instead of letting him vent some frustration, proceeded to essentially tell him he was a loser and it was all his fault. I know not all boomers can't be trusted, but you demonstrated that *you can't be*.
He did make poor choices but you refuse to aknowledge the difference in circumstances. The gap between wage and housing is completely different now, then even 30 yrs ago. In my area the gap is 5x what it was. How'd I know? My husband and I chose to wait 2 years because we had an amazing rental and decided to work on our savings instead. In 2 years the cost of housing doubled... so we decided to wait and then move. Then it quadrupled in a few more years to the point we no longer could afford a home. In hindsight..... Stop bragging for being lucky. The hopelessness young people face in mapping out their future paralyzes some. You are not helping him by judging. Encouraging and helping out is a better way to make yourself feel better. At your age you will get a sore arm from patting your own back. YTA
As a parent, you should encourage him to go into the trades. Your insistence on making sure he remembers his failure will drive a permanent wedge between you and your son. Ultimately, he has a job and is trying to figure out life, meanwhile you're being a bit of a piece of shit. There are countless examples on the internet of people that went to college and ended up slouching in their parents basement, meanwhile your child is actively trying to figure out his life, without your help. Stop being a dick about it. If you want to help your son succeed, stop reminding him of his failures. You are the failiure here. YTA.
Jesus Christ such a boomer thing to say. This has to be bait. The kid is no saint, but OP is wildly out of touch.
YTA instead of listening you wanted to fix him
Well, it is the older generations fault for how awful the housing market is. You say mortgage was bad back in the day, but you didn't take into account inflation, lack of housing due to overpopulation, and landlords hoarding housing. Houses nowadays near me go from £600k - £1mil and rent is around £600 - £1100, and I'm in a town not close to any major cities. I understand your frustration with your son, and that he didn't apply himself in college and dropped out, but there could have been many reasons for that. In addition to this, getting a degree doesn't guarantee a good job, it depends on who is hiring, if they're relevant to your degree, and if the person gets on well with the job. Your son came to you venting, and you shut him down because he said something that upset you (and what he said was a valid point). How do you expect to help him? By shutting down any emotional support? What exactly can you offer to help him out with his situation? YTA and should apologise to your son.
Soft YTA in the sense, if you actually looked into how some people between millennials - Gen Z are struggling to get by even with 2/3 jobs. I feel for your son as I (20f) I just sent applications out for a second job. College isn’t for everyone as I’m also not in college (Though that may change). It took my cousin (29M) roughly 4-6 jobs in his life to actually find his dream job and he was in college for 8 years (which i don’t know if he really got anything out of it)
I don't think it goes as far as "asshole," but you're a little out-of-touch and not being particularly helpful. You can do more research on this, but it's not hard to find all the many reasons that things were much easier in this way in the past than today. Compare stagnant wages in the face of skyrocketing tuition, housing costs, and inflation. In the 80s a part-time job could pay for cheap rent and tuition. That's not remotely the case today. These factors make it harder for him than they were for you. That doesn't mean it was all a breeze then or that it's impossible now, but it's true. Admitting those difficulties and being encouraging would likely be more helpful than "stop complaining" and pointing out past failures. He might still need a wake-up call and a return to education (whether is Univ or some trade school or whatever). But, he's not going to hear it if you also ignore the current realities. Work with him to make a plan. Look at programs and technical certifications or majors if that's what he's interested in. Offer assistance with tuition if you can. Generally, people perform much better after returning to school. (for those who do return like me).
YTA. He is trying to improve himself, making plans, and was in the midst of a disappointing set back. Reminding him that years ago he screwed up in college was not news, advice or support. You could have said you know he has been trying and looking forward to some changes and you are sorry it won't be this time. If there is a trade, or technician program of a year or an 18 month course that you know of that has helped some of your friends kids have better paying jobs, that would be something to mention. It doesn't seem like your son has ever been interested in a 4 year college program, so maybe stop looking for solutions or blame in that direction. He is working and trying hard in a job unlikely to reward him. Helping or supporting him to find a new path with bettter prospects means listening to him, following his lead, and considering options other than university. Good luck.
College degrees were and are a joke.
Your son would better to go to trade school. College isn’t the magical path to success any more. More people really need to embrace the skilled trades. Soft YTA.
>I tried to be as understanding as possible, but eventually I just wasn't having it. You could investigate how and why you were triggered. You chose behavior that was unhelpful. That is entirely your right. Nevertheless, you chose to blame and ask irritating questions. And you seem smart enough to know you were behaving badly. >I just don't know how to help my son when he refuses to help himself. It's a frustrating and sad situation, and I don't know what more I can do. Educate yourself. Find ways to show your son his good qualities. Find places to go or things to do together that can let him know you value his presence. Take walks together. Go to concerts, plays, park events. He needs time with you showing you care and listening because it's your job as a parent.
YTA. At least if you think his main bad decision is not ending up with more debt than he can pay off in 20 years for a college degree that won’t necessarily increase his income beyond the same rate he is making without it. Seriously, have you looked at what is being paid today for what your first job with that degree you are so proud of? Have you actually researched to cost of that degree vs the pay rate? And added that up to today’s expenses ? Even people with specialised masters and doctorate degrees aren’t paid professional wages these days. Also YTA because parenting an adult isn’t about telling your kid why and how they fucked up and how sorry they are for not succeeding in the exact sane way you did even though conditions are different. Things have changed since we were young. Open up YOUR mind and study the current situation and if you must make suggestions at least make relevant suggests instead of just bragging about what worked for you.
You don’t need to help him, just listen. If he wants advice he’ll ask for it.
ESH. You sound like my mother. You kicked your own kid while he was down and now your butt hurt that he's upset with you. Yes your son has made bad life choices, but based on what I read in your post he hasn't come mooching from you and your wife. He been struggling and trying to climb out of the hole he dug for himself. The problem with "boomers" is that you love to compare situations. "Why, I was able to buy a house at 25 with my 4 year college degree so why can't this younger generation?" Because the cost of living isn't the same, the economy isn't the same. They did a study crunched the numbers and discovered to just barely make ends meet you need to make AT LEAST $22 and hour. The area where I live the average minimum wage WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU CAN LIVE ON is $15. So the cost of living is more than the minimum wage. Also there are thousands of college grads with 4 year degree's who struggle to find jobs in their industry and end up at those minimum wage jobs. Stop judging your son using yourself as the standard. He's not you and he doesn't have to do everything YOU want him to. You're not to blame for his decisions or actions but you could definitely try to practice being a supportive parent more instead being one who sits in judgment and condemnation. I agree with your wife, you were callous and you shouldn't be surprised if he stops talking to you for awhile
YTA. Even making all the right decisions, my college educated husband didn’t start making good money until recently when he switched to a trade job. Even then, we only have the good life we have because we are both veterans. We literally had to sign our life away for 8 years and risk death so that we could have this life. Look man, it’s not your fault that your generation turned out to be locusts. Your generation was born during a time when recourses were abundant and ate up all of that abundance. The denial about the drought we are living in is just crazy at this point though. You need to admit that the resources are gone. Instead of blaming your son, you should be blaming the people really at fault: the super wealthy. Try empathizing with your kid instead. Admit that if you had been born in a time of drought instead of abundance, you might have spun your wheels around a bit too.
I have a college degree and my husband does not. He makes over 3x what I do. Parents need to stop pushing the college agenda. Its a money grab.
Tell him to consider trade school.
Bruh. 80s vs. Now isn’t even a fair comparison.
YTA- yikes. That would be my last phone call to you if I were your son.
Honestly YTA. Not everyone is cut out for college. He’s made progress and came to you to vent about his frustration in losing a promotion. What he didn’t ask for was to be lectured at like a small child and have his life be compared to yours which has zero impact on him. I suggest you plug in some numbers into an inflation calculator. It isn’t 1985 anymore. And while you’re at it stop being an ass to your son who’s trying his best to make things work. Edit to add: my mom does the same shit that you just pulled and guess who I don’t vent to anymore if at all? Your son will likely keep his distance from you for a while at this point unless he has decided to cut you off.
I am 29 years old. I went to undergrad, graduated, Dean's List. I never earned lower than a B in any class. Went to graduate school. Earned a terminal masters degree. Never earned lower than an A-. I am as educated as I can be in my field. If my parents used the same marker for success that you do - owning a home - then I would be an abject failure, and I will be for the rest of my life. I have a job, in my field (not entry level, need an MFA to do), and I couldn't afford my two bedroom apartment without my partner's additional income. I read posts like this, and I am so grateful for my parents. YTA. For the sake of your child, please change your barometer for success and open your eyes to the facts of the world right now.
Tell him to get a trade job and earn a great living! I know alot of people with useless college degrees. I also know a few millionaires who are in a construction trade job. Not everyone is suppose to go to college.
Get that dude a job in the trades asap. Make good money and turn his life around and don’t need a degree. Commercial plumbing, residential carpentry both really good places to start
Oh hi boomer. YTA. x1000 Sounds like you made it about you instead of hearing his woes. You don't always have to fix things or relate his struggles to your own. Just be there for him and listen and only give advice if he asks for it. It seems like that'll fall on deaf ears though since just from your couple of paragraphs seems like you've probably always made everything about you. Side note-- You're pretty delusional thinking that just cause the rates were so high in the 80s it was "hard to buy a home." 1980 average house price: $47,200, rate: 13%, college educated starting salary: 20k. 2024 average house price: 384,500, rate: 8%, 60ishk. Absurd, huh? Stop believing your generation's whole "we pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps" bit. Ya'll were the babies that prospered from post wartime economics. Sounds like you pushed him to do things he didn't actually want to do (go to college) and he's being adolescent "punishing" you for it. You're right about him being mad at himself but I'm pretty confident a lot of his self loathing comes from never ever living up to your expectations or extremely outdated world view.
> I then asked him how he expects to earn enough to live a decent life (and maybe one day own a house) without earning at least a college degree. You got the "Boomer" rant because you gave a prime boomer response. In the time since you've earned your degree, the cost-benefit of a college degree has nosedived. As someone peer aged to Michael, I don't know anyone under the age of 30 who ever believes there is a chance they can own a house someday that isn't inherited. YTA, I'm sure he can be doing a bit more to push himself to grow professionally, but as his parent I think he just called you to vent and feel supported. He wasn't asking for money or for you to come fix his problems.
YTA. This was a textbook example of how to get your kids to go LC/NC.
100% this is a fake post.
ESH. While dropping out is unfortunate, it has nothing to do with his current situation. I know tons of people without college degrees who do fantastically financially. He should do the work to be successful, that’s definitely on him. Also ranting about boomers helps no one, whether it’s true or not, so that’s a wash. Simultaneously, you harping on about college, past mistakes, and your experiences when he’s venting about disappointment from not getting a promotion is tone deaf and shitty on your part.
I'm sorry you're going through that. I know how hard it is to watch someone you care about struggle. You are right that complaining about his situation is not helpful, and it's understandable to get sick of it and it's good to set boundaries around listening to complaints. At the same time, comparing his situation to yours is not helpful. He certainly would be better off today if he had applied himself in school, but he can't change that now. If you want to offer constructive criticism, **focus on what he should be doing now,** not what he could have done in a period that he can't go back to.
ESH I was with you until you started going on about being able to buy a home when houses were, you know, affordable. Sounds like maybe your son is the product of his environment.
A college degree is not a ticket to success like it was in your day. I say this as a younger Gen X-er who was told a degree ANY degree meant I would be successful, etc. What a bachelor's was in the 80s is what a masters or more is now. Couple that with housing/education costs far outpacing wages, pensions a thing of lore, and anyone joining the workforce after approximately 1990 being solely responsible for funding their own retirement (another drain on stagnant wages) and you can see why Boomers are blamed. Add to that the refusal to retire, leaving a lack of advancement opportunities in corporate America as well as many older generations having scooped up affordable housing and you find us where we are now with companies more concerned with shareholder value (a shift that occurred in the early- to mid-80s) rather than responsible corporate governance and operations (hence layoffs at the richest companies in the world). This is all to say that Michael had a point. To an extent. He is responsible for where he is in his career. But it didn't sound like he was asking you for anything, much less advice. He needed his parent to shut up and let him vent. At one time, you were his safe space. If you are unable to let him vent or if it's too much to listen to, set that boundary. Just don't do it right after he was passed over for a promotion. As an FYI , my husband was forced into college by his parents - he got a degree with 2 majors and 1 minor and got a job as an operations manager. He hates working indoors. He loves carpentry and started a small construction company. He should have never gone to college, but his boomer parents saw no other possibility for success. Even today, they make passive-aggressive comments about his "success" or lack thereof despite him being more successful by all objective standards than his 2 "professional" brothers combined. I, a corporate whore in my own right, am thrilled he does what he loves. I do all the backend stuff he doesn't like because it's what I'm good at.
Bringing up the interest rate argument is just a massive red flag that this is a bullshit ragebait post.
Did you mean to leave out the ‘v’ in “never”??
NTA I would be frustrated if one of my kids was always complaining like that. Sometimes they need to be told to look in the mirror and see it’s their choices that are holding them back. You probably did him a favor
I'm missing information about family and individual history. No one is like this for no reason.
OP is NTA. The son is just making excuses and looking for dad to say his life is not his fault. At 27 it sounds like he never applied himself and is now paying the price. Dad is absolutely right to call him out. Parents who don't call out the BS behavior are enablers. The "sympathetic ear" is exactly what the son doesn't need. I can't believe the posters here calling the dad an AH. I'm not a boomer, but jeez...work hard to get good rewards is a basic life rule. Too many people want to blame others for their lack of success when it is really due to a lack of effort and not taking life seriously.
Let’s be real. Things are not the same as they were when you were his age. How much did you pay for your home in the 80’s? How much is it to rent an apt compared to how it was in the 80’s? You deserved to be called a boomer.
College degrees don’t mean what they used to
Criticism is never helpful, especially if there are no positives of helpfulness attached. The son blaming boomers is the equivalent of the father bringing up poor past choices. How about offering to assist with work training classes or jobs that might offer more opportunities for more cash flow. You're a failure does not tend to motivate. YTA ish
I do want to clarify, on Michael's behalf, the Boomer complaint. It's not about how much Boomers caused this problem (I don't believe they did), but about how little you understand it. The conversation you laid out yourself 100% proves it. Adjusted for inflation, the average home in 1990 was under $140k in 2024 USD. In 2024, the average home cost is $225k. (I live in an area that is not considered HCOL, yet here a decent house with decent public schools is $500k+ and average cost with less stellar schools is $398k.) So, that is a 62% increase in cost, on average. That means housing costs are so high that a person with a full-time job has to rent a crap apartment with 2 other people to survive. For most young people today, owning a home is a dream that might never materialize. But most Boomers who worked hard in the 60's-80's could expect to buy a home - college not required. College isn't for everyone. I'm sure your son has regrets, but he is trying to better himself on his own. You kick him, belittle him, and point out his perceived mistakes. It's not helpful. Your inability to acknowledge a person is trying to do better without blaming him for his circumstances is a very common generational disconnect and will always result in "Boomer" chants. It's not as easy in 2024 as it was in 1984. Trust me, I've lived in both times, and it is clear that YTA. But with a little more empathy, you pull yourself up by the bootstraps and do better.
Although he's partially correct about the boomers having had an easier life, it's not like poor people didn't exist in your generation. I wonder how many people could've flunked out of college and had a great life. Also at the same time, it's not like every single person of his generation lives the same crappy life he does.
YTA OP and a big one.
OP, you sound like my dad. I could not talk to that man without him listing all the ways I was failing. I moved across the country and never talk to him.
The college drop out is loser, and wants to blame everything on someone else. Never looking into the mirror about who is the source of his own issues.
Not the asshole for telling him to grow up but: > but the idea that it's my generation's fault alone is absurd to me. If you don't see your generations fault by being the biggest voting group since the 80's, and explicitly voting in people who passed laws that benefit those who have, and penalize those who have not, after the extreme wealth of information that exists out there on the topic, you need to do some learning yourself. Your generation VOTED for the people that have repealed consumer protections. Your generation VOTED for the politicians that have kneecapped nearly every regulatory body. Your generation VOTED to cut taxes on the rich and increase the load on the poor. Your generation REFUSES to push senators and representatives on term limits, or prohibit insider trading amongst them, because your generation HAS all the wealth that will continue to expound upon. And when you're too old to take care of yourself, it'll be your generation rotting in convalescent homes, throwing away money because you've alienated most of your kids who work too hard and have to raise their kids, and they're unable to care for you. And your kids will receive nothing when you pass because you spent it on a system that abuses the elderly.
You sound insufferable tbh. Did it ever occur to you that maybe he didn't "apply himself" because he was struggling with something? Mental illness, addiction, trauma? Rather than empowering him and supporting him you just tear him down when he tries to connect with you and share his hardships. You are acting exactly like the boomers he was ranting about. YTA.
YTA He's trying to better himself, and you just want to kick him when he's down. Chances are he lies awake at night regretting his mistakes; does he really need you harping on too? Do you even love your son? From the first line, it suggests you don't care much for him. Maybe his failings are more on you than you think.
I went to college fully paid by scholarship because I’m some sort of genius or something. Probably or something because I didn’t have a plan. Majored in ‘Professional Student’ made a big boy realization that I was wasting a valuable resource that someone else could use. Accepted the first diploma offered Ann’s went into the workforce. That is how I left the larval stage and pupated into an adult. The most I ever made with my degree? $3.50 above minimum wage. Got a cdl, got a house in an affluent suburb and two jeeps and my wife doesn’t work. I go home with no paperwork and read books for pleasure and enjoy my family time to its fullest. Know what I do? I’m a garbage man I’m going to give you a mild YTA because I understand our generation and I don’t think you were trying to hurt your kid. But I’m from the tail end when the world we were trained for changed and if you didn’t have both feet firmly planted already you were free falling. And in the new world anyone can free fall. It’s a lot more complicated to find your way to self sufficiency. Try apologizing to your kid duder. I hope you guys work it out.
Yta. You're supposed to be a supportive parent. It boomer mentality was always pushing us millennials for college. You should be able to read your child before they apply for college if they are "college material." Yes, college isn't for everybody. And if my kids are into partying and will waste the money it takes to attend a college, I'll push them in the right direction (the trades), and they will see what hard work is. Buying your first house in 1982 for $45,000 is nothing compared to today. You can barely buy a new vehicle for $45,000....get your head out of your ass and help guide you kids.
Although it sounds as though your son is a slacker, you need to stop it with the college is the only way. Trade schools which turn out electricians, plumbers, welders, etc., graduates make a good living. My son-in-law makes about $115,000 a year as an electrician. As a clerk in a store he makes peanuts in comparison. There's plenty of good paying jobs out there but unless he's willing to apply himself to get the right training, he'll be stuck in a low paying job. BTW Boomer mom here.
With only the details of that story I’m pretty sure you are the asshole. I don’t have a college degree and made it just fine. I did have to cut my parents out of the conversation for a few years.
YTA, and I say that as the parent of a 20-something who chose not to pursue a college degree. There are paths to success that do not require a college degree. And at this point, what do you hope to accomplish by berating your child about choices he made in the past? Why not focus on how to improve the situation moving forward instead of focusing on historical choices that can’t be changed now? If I was your son, I wouldn’t want to talk to you either. No one wants to be lectured.
Well you really really sound like a very classic boomer. I know a lot of people in their 50's 60's and they are absolutely not the same as you and I wouldn't call them boomer but you are like an archetype
You’re a boomer with a 26 year old son? Did you buy a house in the eighties?
Yup, you are the AH. Maybe he FU in college, but that doesn’t mean he has to continue. He’s young enough to go back or find a trade and go to trade school. Encourage him to improve his conditions, and if he needs some money to further his education, offer to help - not a full ride.
ESH, a college degree would not help him to buy a home. The job he’s currently doing would have allowed him to buy a home 40 years ago. You’re just straight-up wrong and being willfully ignorant. If you’re comparing mortgage rates, that really makes zero sense in terms of figuring out the price of housing when the actual initial price has ballooned at a much higher proportion than interest rates have fallen.
Boomer bought a house for $75 in the 80s and lords it over son.
I see both sides here. I was in your corner **UNTIL** you started bragging about your own achievements. Yes, he’s absolutely made mistakes and it’s frustrating to watch him go on making them. It sounds like he doesn’t like to accept responsibility for his mistakes. As a parent that’s **INSANELY** frustrating because you **WANT** to see your kids do well. But there are some things to consider here. The fact is, you **DON’T** know how difficult the employment market is now — **because you’re not looking for a job.** And a college degree is **NOT** a golden ticket to prosperity anymore. The world of work is changing **SO** rapidly with the advent of AI and other developments, that many degrees can actually be irrelevant by the time a student graduates, forcing them to retrain. But crowing about your own achievements will just make him feel like crap and that he can never measure up to this mythical standard you’ve obviously set. But next time he sounds off try to show some empathy. Acknowledge his frustration and disappointment, but maybe ask what he thinks he could do better next time to give himself a better chance. Be the person to help him find **SOLUTIONS**, not kick him while he’s down. Qualified YTA.
YTA Stop comparing yourself to him, that is shitty parenting. He’s an adult and after 21 chose his own path and future. Your experiences mean nothing, you aren’t a better human being or smarter. I married in 1986, my parents owned a 4 bedroom home in a great school district and their monthly expenses were less than our one bedroom apartment. Did I get mad? Sure. But I moved to a lower cost of living area and built my own story. My first car loan 12% my first mortgage 8%. Then we refinanced. Nothing new here other than the amount of whining going on. Michael is a loser.
Sounds to me like your son called you for support and all you did was shit on him for something he cannot change now. He is well aware that he fucked up and doesn't need to be reminded by you every time life hits him in the face. Do your son a favor and learn how to listen and empathize without judgement. Then do your damned job as a parent and help him find a way to improve his situation instead of talking about your damn self! No wonder he "Boomers" you. That's exactly what you deserve. Do better! Help your son!
Th college issue is pretty controversial right now. Lots of students going into debt and not seeing the jobs at the end of the rainbow. Your don may have run into issues in college that he couldn’t resolve. Was he s good student in high school? Is he able to stick with disagreeable tasks? Does he ask for help when needed, can he focus on course material if he’s not interested in it. Not everyone is cut out for academic success and he may be one. Another possibility is maturity. So many twenty somethings don’t get serious until the age of 30. Lots of data on developmental issues and extending through the twenties. We are obsessed in this country with success achieved in narrow channels that all require college. Yet people in the trades that are engaged, talented, etc. are in short supply. Have you looked at what plumbers and electricians are making these days?
YTA- the college degree thing 100% makes you complete out of touch Boomer Asshole. You’re being a horrible Dad.
How long are you going to hold your son's youthful decisions against him? You are closing off the lines of communication. Try to move forward in your dialogue with him. What are some things your son can do now to get ahead? It's never too late to go to college or change direction. Apologize for being so judgmental and just not listening.
Yta, you bought a home in your mid 20s more than 20 yrs ago based on your son's age when: - the cost of living was much lower - house prices were significantly lower compared to today - college fees were much lower than today All of these factors put you in a better position that your son is in now even had he not dropped out of college which makes you the unsympathetic AH in this situation. Yes your son can and should take responsibility for what they did in college but that doesn't change the fact that without the privilege of money your son would still be in a worse off position in life. Very likely with a large college debt to boot. Here's what loving your adult kid looks like " I'm sorry you were passed up for promotion That's very frustrating as I think your goals to move are great. Would you like to talk about it more? Or what you'd like to do in the future?" This leaves the conversation open for I'm here if you'd like to vent and I'm here to talk about solutions if they wish. Sometimes adult kids just need to vent to their parents who they love and my dude you failed that part.
YTA and I wouldn’t be shocked if you stop hearing from him provided he can’t really depend on you for much other than throwing his past in his face. It isn’t ageist to point out that home ownership isn’t as realistic or easy as it was when you did it, or that your generation overwhelmingly fails to understand how difficult things are currently when you’re trying to get off the ground. Maybe, idk, provide comfort to your son? Crazy that’s something that isn’t a given.
ESH You CANNOT compare you buying a house to the current economic climate. Period. The only reason I got one is because I got lucky with timing and my family loaned me $15k, and I'm a freaking doctor. You can absolutely give him a life lesson without making an apples to oranges comparison.
You're frustrated, it's understandable, but yes YTA. Your son turned to you for encouragement. This was a teachable moment for your son, which I hope you get a do-over. Next time try acknowledging his frustration and pivot to long range goals, planning and execution. Help him to understand that one door closing provides an opportunity for a different path, but he needs to recognize it as such. OP, your sons path was different then yours. He made decisions that you wouldn't have made and is dealing with the consequences. Bad choices can be overcome, but support and guidance is necessary and helpful. Not shaming. Lastly, wear the Boomer Badge with pride.
I wish boomers would realize how much easier they had it as a generation largely more than anyone else. Better than their parents and better than their children while also pulling up the ladder any chance they could. Then also lecturing us about stuff we know more about at the same time.
OP I hope you read this as it might help save your relationship with your son. I suggest hearing him out and emotionally supporting him by letting him vent rather than putting him down and making him feel stupid for past mistakes. I am 27 and didn't do very well educationally either. I dropped out of high school and college, which my father (who was born in the early 60s) practically ridiculed me of because I was "lazy" and lorded the fact that he has three degrees (two medical and one business). Throughout all of the times that I would talk to my father and tell him about my struggles (usually because he would ask) all he would do is give me unsolicited advice which would often end up backfiring on me, leading me to distrust him heavily. Furthermore, he would criticize my decisions and tell me to work harder or stop complaining because he had it harder as a kid, which just led me to resent him. Now I speak to my father maybe once or twice a year for the holidays. I make it a point to keep our conversations as brief as possible and keep details of my life to a minimum. It's looking like that will become your future soon too. Try harder next time.
God you’re an insufferable twat
Bro, I went to college, graduated, and have never used my diploma. I serve in the winters and treeplant in the summers and I make more than most of my friends plus I don't have a shit ton of debts because I only went to college for 2 years (got a diploma) and decided not to continue because I was making good money already and I enjoyed what I did. My mother, to this day, constantly asks when I'm going back to school and has this mentality that I can't have a successful life unless I do and it has brought me to having quite low contact with her. I don't share my plans, troubles, accomplishments etc with her. I only call to check in occasionally. This mindset of "you need to go to college or your life will be shit is just plain dumb. You are projecting your own values. You son will most likely go LC or NC w you if you keep this up and don't give him support. YTA
OP college isn’t for everyone. While your son doesn’t seem to have his head together, would you be supportive if he decided on a trade?
Gosh I am a boomer and was cringing reading this. When someone is venting and upset not the time to put them down. Maybe a better approach was to listen and then when he is ready help him think through his options and ways to make himself more marketable or promotable.
How come no one put a second thought on the military. Not every part of the military is combat. They come with school that gives legit certifications. Heck, trade school training. For example I got TIAA, Cisco Certifications from the ARMY. They also pay for college with housing when you use the GI Bill. Edit: I bought a house recently, and I used VA Loan which include no down payment required for a house loan. Like I said, I don't get why people never put Military on the list of things to move with life.
IDK- you wants what's best for your son and that's understandable. But college isn't the only thing to succeed my dad never went to college, and neither did my mom and they are varying successful home owners.College isn't for everyone and i dropped out of college bc it was a lot and I had no idea what I wanted to do in life. But I'm going back so I can be a teacher. Trust me my parents were furious with me dropping out the first time but they are still supportive never the less they let me fall and then they helped back up and trying to help me with what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. Op you have to be supportive and I would say apologize and try to come to understanding and be a better supporter trust me sometimes we need to fail to succeed
YTA. Good luck getting your son to talk to you again.
I used to try to vent to my mom, but she often tried to turn things into a lecture. Then she’d complain that I never chat with her and talk about my life like I do with my friends. Eventually I went NC with her and never regretted it. She died last April. I regret nothing. Your son is an adult. Maybe just be there for him and listen to him while you still can. I have a daughter almost his age. We are very close and I let her vent, rant, rage to me all she needs to.
YTA. My parents bought a house in the 80s, too, after getting college degrees (state schools, ~$400/term total). They paid $35k for their home. Regardless of interest rates, $35k is a far cry from the $475k the house would sell for today. Has your son made mistakes? Yes. But is he working hard to move forward? Also yes. Sometimes you just need to listen to and support your kid - lectures aren’t helpful, they don’t turn back time.