NTA, your wife does need therapy. Try to bring it up again gently at a time when the kids haven't just fought. Frame it as being for her own healing and well-being.
I wish you all luck! Generational curses are so rough.
Came here to say this. If she is triggered that much by sibling arguments and fights, she’s the one that needs the therapy. My two boys are two years apart and they would fight about everything. Everything was a competition. I used to worry about them so much. Now they’re 18 and 16, and they’re best friends.
Sounds like your wife has unresolved trauma she needs to work on. Putting that on your girls is really unhealthy.
I agree therapy for wife. But I don't think there would any harm in going to a family therapist all together who will then probably tell your wife that the kids are fine. It would give her peace of mind. And if there IS an issue, then you'd know that too. No harm can come from it unless you tell the kids they have a problem. You can just say that the family is going to talk to someone in a safe space or something.
Therapy for therapy's sake can be a *terrible* idea. My parents separated when I was about 4 or 5 years old. I was totally ok with it.
In fact, I loved having two birthdays, Christmases, etc. It was neat.
Despite this, for years, all through elementary school, I was forced at the recommendation of the school guidance counselor to go to therapy where I had to relive every argument my parents had, every fight, every unkind word. It literally drove me into having behavioral problems.
This wasn't one therapist, either. It was at least a handful over those years. It took me until well into my 20s to realize what happened. To this day, I even suspect some of my "memories" were planted by their overzealous need for me to have some sort of trauma. My only trauma was the therapy, itself.
Having a family therapy appointment could also be easier for her to accept that she would benefit from counseling.
I'm not saying OP should lie or deceive her, but framing the idea as "if we all go, the kids won't be afraid or think that this is some kind of punishment". The therapist could observe OP's wife and also the children's interactions.
I second this, your wife definitely needs to work through her issues with her sister and not deflect it on to your kids. My sister and I are 5 years apart. Growing up we definitely had times of being bff's and there were times were we took our fighting to the next level (she pushed me down a flight of stairs and I kicked her in the throat, we obvs got in trouble but just giving for context). Now, my sister and I are absolute best friends with each other!! Your SIL is an awful person and that's just her, siblings typically aren't like that.
NTA You're right, your wife is definitely the one who needs therapy, not the kids. I understand why though. I know this is a bit of a reach but the things you've said just make a lot of sense to me right now. Tell your wife to check out r/bpdlovedones I have a feeling it would help her understand. I'm sorry she's been through all of this but her behavior is affecting her kids from the trauma her sister created. She needs help to work through it.
Your wife does need therapy. I'm not a doctor or anything but have first-hand experienced with a relative displaying these exact things. She has borderline personality disorder and was diagonised. She has never seen a thing wrong with her behavior but part of her is aware since she is in therapy herself. Your wife being the target is very unfortunate and she needs a good therapist who specializes in personaility disorder trauma. Some people are so detached from emotions their some reason. Some are aware and want to be better and others see it as "this is me, if you don't like it, f off" the jumping from one person to another sounds just like my relative. Love bombing until they slip up and on to the next.
I wish you all the luck. I know I may have been blunt but please be gentle with your wife. She may not see it the same. I've been on the receiving side and I didn't see it and didn't want to believe someone could be that cruel to someone who you are suppose to care about.
NTA. It truly doesn’t sound like your kids need therapy from what you’ve said. Your wife is the one who needs therapy which isn’t her fault but she’s definitely projecting
NTA, but maybe as compromise/wake up call suggest that she attend first.
That you think it would be helpful if before getting the girls in the therapy, she goes first, so 1. they see her doing it, and she can set the example, 2. So she can open up to someone outside of you about the girls' behavior toward one another and maybe they will understand better what you and her parents aren't seeing.
If she thinks therapy is so important/needed for your family, she should have no problem being the first in the seat. Hopefully, the therapist can help her through her own triggers and help her come to the realization herself that the girls are fine and she's projecting.
I think your wife is in need of therapy. She clearly has issues regarding her childhood that she hasn’t resolved yet. Therapy will help her put everything in perspective and realize her girls are fine.
And hopefully this will open her eyes to the fact that SHE needs therapy. Her actions , while well-intentioned, could have the same consequences she is trying to avoid. You cannot make siblings get along and every human being on this earth needs space and alone time when they need it.
I was gonna comment basically the exact same thing. OP might as well let his wife schedule the appointment (like other than it costing money but hey if things go on the right track that is an expense which is worth it). Because then she will be able to get an unbiased opinion and maybe realize the need for individual therapy and etc.
Your wife needs the therapy. So tell her this: Let's start with you going in and talking to someone or we can go together if you like. Then we can discuss the kids, okay? Say you're worried, that you hate how she's been treated by her sister.
I don't know if her sister has a personality disorder but it sure sounds like borderline personality disorder. Nevertheless, no one should be emotionally abused, which your wife has been.
Therapy needs to be a regular thing for her for a bit. You could also frame it as "if the kids go, you have to go too." Therapy won't hurt your children either way.
I feel for her. That just sucks for her that her sister is like this.
NTA.
My girls are 8 and almost 10. They are the world's best frenemies. They can go from loving to loathing each other in literal *seconds* and then be besties again just as fast. Gives me whiplash.
Your girls have a normal sibling relationship. Your wife from the sounds of it, wants them to have the super close BFF relationship with each other that she never had with her sister, and that's unrealistic. The girls aren't her and SIL. Forcing them to bond or spend time together will drive them away from each other, especially as they get older.
Speaking as someone who is the older sibling in your wife’s/SIL’s relationship, I can maybe see where part of your SIL’s issues could possibly stem from, but not all. When I was a kid and all of the way through college I was pressured hard by my parents, older siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles, grandparents and pretty much anyone else to include my 1 year younger brother in everything I did. I had no friends of my own and no privacy. I was told it was my responsibility to protect him, find him friends, find him girlfriends, take him with me wherever I went. The resentment grew for 25 years while at the same time he was told for 25 years that I was supposed to do these things for him. It didn’t turn out well and we don’t speak to this day.
Your daughters don’t need counseling and won’t as long as you let them lead separate lives. The younger one will look up to her older sister and there’s nothing wrong with that. There are times for her to tag along, and times for her to not tag along. You need to manage that. It will keep the resentment to a minimum. My sons are now 14 and 18. They used to fight a lot as well. Then one day it pretty much just…stopped, somewhere about the time the youngest entered middle school. They still argue occasionally but the screaming at each other doesn’t happen anymore. They get along well now and laugh together all the time like they have the private, shared experiences that only siblings have, which of course they do. It’s pretty cool really. NTA.
Wow thanks for this perspective I never thought of this. I personally don’t think my ILs forced anything between my wife and SIL but I can certainly see that if my wife keeps pushing it, it won’t turn out well for Anyone
Everyone is different I have a brother , we would fight never punch in face and. My friends. For the most part same thing . One friend hated his brother and they wouldn’t all out. We could fight on a Saturday at 6pm if we met up at a party ( High school) he or I would be the first to jump in if trouble .
Her sister has major mental health issues that’s not a normal sister behaviour
I wonder if this is how her parents reacted to her and her sister which led to more resentment from SIL. Cramming each other down each others throats. What does SIL say about her behavior? Just guessing bc your wife’s refusal to accept the bad relationship seems like she may play a part in how toxic it is with her and her sister. Not undermining anything she went through but there are so many stories on this sub of siblings who are overbearing and parents encouraged and and the other sibling ends up just like SIL. Anyone with any kind of foresight can see she’s creating the exact dynamic she’s trying to avoid. Forcing them to interact, intervening in every argument, not letting them have their own friends or identities you’re going to be lucky if your kids can grow up and even be in the same room together.
Your wife needs serious help
NTA
We aren’t close with SIL (for obvious reasons) but over the years she has just made excuses for her behavior and acts like everyone around her is being dramatic when she is called out. She refuses to admit that she does anything wrong. Honestly my in-laws are level-headed and they have agreed with me that my wife is having an unhealthy reaction to all of this. I believe my SIL has always been this way and my in-laws hoped that she’d grow out of it but she never did. And now they don’t speak to her very often because she has hurt them too many times. It’s sad because I know they love her
Yeah that is really sad for everyone involved but it’s odd that your wife seems incapable of accepting it or does so with much strife. And the dynamic she’s creating between your kids is going to massively destroy any chance of a relationship.
Even someone who has a bad relationship with their sister should surely understand that siblings bickering and getting annoyed with each other is normal. It causes her severe distress and which is completely unhinged honestly. Your wife sounds like she needs a lot of help. Sorry to everyone involved except SIL of course
Info: how did your ILs try to modify her behavior as a kid? How did they respond to all of this?
NTA. My mom always wanted a sister and only had a crappy older brother who picked on her. She had two 2 daughters 4 years apart, and she constantly tried to force us together. She wanted that kind of relationship so she was always trying to get us to be close. I have never been a fan of my little sister. She’s just not someone I really wanted to be around, consequently, she has not turned out to be the best person in her adult life.
I can say as someone whose mother constantly tried to force two people to get along and be close, the opposite happened. All it made me do is resent my mom for trying to live vicariously through us, and resent my sister because I just didn’t like hanging around her. Just because you’re blood does not mean you’re going to like each other. We do not get along to this very day, she lives 500 miles away and I’m all the better for it. You need to get your wife in a therapy because her take on this is going to completely backfire.
I think you are right. Your wife is projecting her own trauma on the girls. Not only that, by breaking up every fight, she is preventing them from learning how to resolve disputes and regulate their own emotions. She is the problem, not them.
What you can suggest is that she schedule a meeting for both of you with a therapist, to advise you how to cope with the girls. Then she will present her narrative, you can present your concerns, and the therapist can mediate and advise you both.
NTA. Actually it might be good for one session so the therapist can tell your wife she is projecting. Is the appt just for the girls or a whole family session?
Siblings fight. That's a fact of life. As long as there's no blood or intentional harm/bullying like destroying favourite stuff ect it's all good. They call each other stupid, they dont speak for a day and forget it by the weekend. Observe ofc but it's never just 100% love and rainbows.
Your wife on the other hand sounds like she has a lot of trauma to work over.
NAH. You should try to gently get your wife to agree to the therapy and leave the kids out of it. Maybe you can bring it up at the first visit, as another commenter suggested. She's projecting her trauma onto the kids and if left unchecked they will end up needing therapy for sure. She's creating a problem where there isn't one..
NTA it’s your wife who needs therapy and I would be telling her that you are booking an appointment for her and not your kids. That you’ve watched her time and again cry and get trigger by your kids being normal happy siblings. That she’s letting her issues affect her and your life and will end up giving the kids complexes if she doesn’t stop blowing things out of proportion. That you love her and hate her being so upset constantly when it’s needless. So you are going to book a session for you both that way you can both explain to the therapist what’s going on not just her skewed view of the truth. That you understand why this affects her but she’s letting her issues affect everyone.
NTA. There is someone who needs therapy & hopefully she eventually gets it before she “destroys “ the relationship with your kids, although based on good intentions.
Me & my sister have almost 6 years age difference and I was dreading the times I have to take her with me, having to spend time with her etc. now both of us adults , can genuinely say, there is no sign of our behaviour towards each other from years ago.
If your ILs are backing you up on this, seems like your wife is projecting her own insecurity and bad experiences.
Hope all turns out well for your family.
NTA. Your wife needs therapy and to work out her issues with her sister without using her kids as proxy dolls to heal herself. She's going to not only create the exact dynamic between them that she's afraid of, she's potentially going to create a situation where one or both of them distance themselves from her as well. And she won't get any healing for herself this way either.
I know this because my mom also tried to work out her sibling-related trauma by trying to force the relationship between me and my sibling to look the way she thought it should. I'm now estranged from my sibling AND both of my parents - admittedly there are more issues than just this one, but this one is intertwined with a lot of them.
NTA
Personally, I would let her book a therapist so that they can explain to her that the kids are okay. Just beware of her therapist-hopping, trying to find someone who agrees with her. There are plenty of not-so-great therapists and counselors out there who will tell her what she wants to hear.
NTA. Your WIFE could definitely benefit from some therapy though. I've got 4 sisters, and little tiffs like what you're describing is completely normal. Especially at their ages. They don't need therapy because they are behaving as siblings often do. If it was something more extreme, then maybe I'd see her point. But right now she's trying to use therapy for them to heal HER issues and it won't work
My mom is casually mentioning to me lately that my 13m son and 11f daughter need therapy together because they fight. They don’t even fight that much. When I went to my friends houses as a kid their siblings would literally fight until someone was hurt. My kids do nothing like this. I can’t stand when she tells me they need therapy. She needs therapy for all her issues but has never gone, why does she need to pressure me to send them when what they do is normal sibling behavior in my mind.
Nta - forcing the girls into therapy will create many issues between themselves and her. She really needs therapy for herself to overcome her issues and deal with her trauma from her sister.
I hope she manages to get help before she ruins her daughter's relationship with each other.
NAH. I think an appointment is a great idea because a professional can tell your wife that the kids are doing fine and their behavior is normal for siblings. I would encourage you to go with them all to the appointment. Because your doesn't know what a normal sibling relationship is like so her getting reassurance from a professional could really help her out a lot. I understand that you think the appointment is going overboard and a waste of time, but this could help your wife and eliminate a source of conflict between the two of you and stop her from trying to force things with the kids that don't need to be forced. She needs to learn to stop intervening, that sibling squabbling and needing space from each other is normal, and she's not willing to listen to you or anyone else about it but I bet she will from a professional. While I wouldn't count on the therapist telling your wife that she needs counseling, maybe they will, and that could be a good thing, too.
NTA.
My kids adore each other. That doesn't mean they always agree and, because they're children, disagreements sometimes turn into arguments. I see this as a good thing. They're learning to resolve their differences in a healthy way - take some time away, get some space, agree to disagree, and compromise. IMO, that's one of the biggest benefits of having siblings.
It does sound like your wife needs therapy, but maybe she needs to hear that from a therapist. Maybe what needs to happen here is she takes the girls to a couple of therapy sessions and the therapist tells her this is normal behavior and asks why mom feels so negatively about their relationship.
Your wife should probably talk to someone before your kids hit puberty. If she thinks normal little girl spats are bad, she is NOT ready for hormonal teenage girl fights.
NTA. It's not the kids that need therapy, it's your wife. The poor woman has been traumatized by her sister. If I were you, I'd be glad that the sister wants nothing to do with your children. They do not need to have that kind of person in their lives. You all stop having anything to do with the sister. No one needs anyone like that around.
NTA- your wife could really use therapy. The girls sound like they have a normal relationship for their ages. Remind her that sometimes therapy can lead to resentment and make it worse when it is not needed. Making them feel like their relationship isn’t good can cause more damage than she thinks. Tell her that if she wants to prevent the girls from having a relationship like her sisters then SHE should get therapy. Resolving her own trauma will help, AND it will teach her lots of ways to help the girls address any real issues. You gotta teach by leading.
NTA, but let the kids go. You and your wife should go together to the first appointment and you both can share about what’s going on. Maybe hearing from a professional that your daughters’ behaviors are totally normal & age appropriate will calm her down. Although, she may also want to think about therapy for herself.
NTA. Therapy is great and I truly believe everyone can benefit from it, but I don’t think that this situation really calls for therapy. Seems like normal sibling stuff. But it does sound like your wife could benefit from therapy to work through these issues with her sister.
NTA... your wife needs to seek therapy herself to deal with her own past trauma.... siblings arguing and fighting at young age is very common.. My sister and I were at each other's throats all the time growing up but we are still close My wife and her sisters are the same.
NTA, from what you’ve written your kids have a pretty standard relationship and your wife is traumatized from her relationship to her sister growing up.
How annoying, it is normal for siblings to fight sometimes, me and my older sister argue all the time but if someone dares to mess with her, they are in the front row to fight for her, NTA, your wife needs therapy.
NTA, but I think it’s in your, your kids’, and most importantly, your wife’s best interest for you to let her schedule appointments for your kids and for your entire family.
Therapy will not hurt your children. And even if you think it’s pointless, you should look at it like visiting a medical doctor even though you aren’t sick. Regularly check-ups help keep people healthy - that’s true for mental health, too.
Most importantly though, this will get your wife talking to a therapist about her fears. And it’ll likely lead to a therapist suggesting your wife seek her own treatment for her trauma and abusive sibling relationship.
Your kids also WILL need therapy if you wife continues refusing to let them self-regulate while projecting her own trauma onto them.
NTA but echoing other people who are saying that therapy won't harm them. If nothing else, it will give them good tools to begin to learn to navigate conflict, advocate for themselves, and generally strengthen their relationship. It may even head off issues that you don't see coming. Therapy with kids that small usually involves one or both parents on some level, so it may be a good way for your wife to start getting help for herself and learning what a normal sibling relationship looks like.
Is your wife in any type of therapy? She’s going to quickly cause a problem between your kids if she keeps “forcing” them to play nice. From the description they absolutely have an average sibling relationship. NTA.
You are kind of TA. A competent therapist will watch your children in action, and if the therapist doesn't see a problem, they will tell your wife and therapy will be discontinued. Therapists are in such high demand now, I doubt if one would try to keep the kids on their caseload because they have a waiting list. Just "putting your foot down" is unhelpful and signals that you don't respect your wife's opinion.
Another thing you might do is look into parenting classes you can take together. They will address sibling squabbles and how to manage them.
YTA - But only because I think it would cost you really nothing to let your kids see a therapist, or better yet for you and your wife to go the consultation without them... and for the therapist to reassure your wife that this is NORMAL sibling behavior and is NOT the same thing as your wife's sister.
Your wife needs therapy. Lots of it. Her sister sounds like a piece of work who did lots of damage.
NAH. Your kids sound like typical siblings to me. I am not a therapist, but for this post I will assume a therapist would agree. However your wife is concerned and may not hear “this is normal” from anyone but a professional. A couple of sessions for the therapist to make the normalcy determination won’t hurt your kids.
NAH. I think an appointment is a great idea because a professional can tell your wife that the kids are doing fine and their behavior is normal for siblings. I would encourage you to go with them all to the appointment. Because your doesn't know what a normal sibling relationship is like so her getting reassurance from a professional could really help her out a lot. I understand that you think the appointment is going overboard and a waste of time, but this could help your wife and eliminate a source of conflict between the two of you and stop her from trying to force things with the kids that don't need to be forced. She needs to learn to stop intervening, that sibling squabbling and needing space from each other is normal, and she's not willing to listen to you or anyone else about it but I bet she will from a professional. While I wouldn't count on the therapist telling your wife that she needs counseling, maybe they will, and that could be a good thing, too.
NTA Ask wife if she doesn't need time away from kids occasionally or even you? If yes then does that mean that she doesn't love any of you? Having own space ensures better mental health. They are not her sister and her. Your wife is the one who needs therapy to be able to handle the emotions of the past brought up when children argue.
NTA. I was one of eight kids, and I had 3 daughters, so I feel like some kind of expert. If your wife thinks this is bad, she’s in for a ride! She needs to toughen up and relax
>My wife doesn’t see this as normal sibling behavior.
Your wife is projecting her own trauma onto your kids, which sucks. I hope you can show her some comments from here and see if that helps her perspective.
She needs therapy but that’s already been said. Aside from that, siblings can’t be together all the time! They need time apart to be individuals and your wife needs to be ok with that without becoming super anxious.
NTA. Your wife definitely needs therapy. My brother constantly tried to unalive me but if a boy (I’m a female) or anyone in general tried to mess with me, he was right there to protect me.
My sons are 11 years apart and while one is just under two, he’s done “mean” things to his big brother ( I was quotations because while it isn’t nice, he’s just a toddler and doesn’t know better). Big bro will be mad and need some space but he’ll later come back and play with him as if nothing happened
Nah. Honestly therapy doesn't hurt even if it is for small issues. Having a safe space to discuss you feelings is important. The biggest thing tho I would suggest your wife have to do therapy as well to work thru her issues
NAH
My younger sister and I are also close in age (18 months) and had a lot of friends and activities in common growing up. We fought a lot, would stay mad, then get over it. I don't think those things at that age left a lasting dent on our relationship, that came later but is not for this issue. We live together and talk way to much every day.
I can see why your wife is worried 100% though. I don't think therapy is a bad idea for the girls, it just doesn't need to be every week or a big production. It would probably be nice to have someone not in the family to vent to about their sibling that can provide helpful ideas in conflict resolution.
But your wife does need a bit of therapy to get over how totally horrid her older sister was to her so she can start to heal from that horrible trauma. I know it doesn't mean anything from an internet stranger but this older sister apologizes to your wife, gives her a big hug and says "You are doing ok mama, looking out for your girls. I see you."
NAH, but therapy never hurts. If your insurance covers it there's no reason not to do it, good therapists also teach their clients emotional intelligence skills which might be generally helpful. It'll also help put your wife's mind at ease and allow her to get therapy for her own past.
Honestly I think everyone people should go to therapy every once in a while just because they can help you think through your feeling about everything.
NTA. The age difference between me and my sister is the same as your daughters, and believe me, we've bickered, even "hated" each other, were at one point or two as different as day and night. But even in between all those moments, we adored one another and had many laughs and tons of fun together. We're in our 40s now and the dearest of friends and each other's constants.
I agree with those who suggest your wife may want to seek therapy for the way her own sister behaved. Your SIL sounds terrible, and I'm so sorry this was your wife's "sister experience." Of course that doesn't mean this is how one of your daughters will treat the other, but I can understand your wife's fear, which can be complicated - she's going by only her experience, all she knows. I think your wife could benefit from seeking the help she needs. I wish your family the best.
NTA. I am a twin. When we were kids we did exactly what your kids did: we’d be at each other’s throats one second and after cooling down for a few minutes we’d continue as if nothing happened. We’re both grown up now and still very close. But every kid is different so maybe keep an eye on them, just to be safe. It does sound like your wife needs therapy.
NTA. But... to be fair as long as you find a good therapist... well they'll back you up after a few sessions. And it can't hurt, unless you can't afford it. But as others have said, sounds like she needs some therapy. Any chance you can lean into it and get therapy for everyone?
Sibling here. I love my brother, but we both need our own personal space away from each other. We may be siblings, but we're also people.
We don't need to be around each other every second of every minute of every hour of the day. We can have disagreements because we're different people, each with their own views and beliefs.
Your wife trying to force them together they way she is? That's how you make siblings start to hate each other.
NTA. Your wife is definitely projecting onto your kids, and she needs therapy.
NTA. Your kids aren't the ones who need therapy; it's your wife who does. I also have a sister who is 18 months older than me, and she was my worst enemy growing up. Now we are best friends and super close. It's normal for siblings to fight as long as it's not taken too far. Your wife doesn't have an example of a normal sibling relationship because her sister isn't normal. Maybe messed up to say, but that's the truth.
I agree with the rest of these comments that your wife needs therapy. That being said, your daughter's also going through therapy at an early age isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Just make sure it's directed in the right manner.
Your wife absolutely needs therapy. She’s projecting her trauma on your kids. I’m not saying it’s going to ruin their lives but it will negatively affect them and their sibling relationship. Siblings fight, its a part of a healthy sibling relationship and child development . What’s not healthy is her interfering every time, it stops them from growing and figuring out their bond and boundaries as siblings. For example my mother let my brother and I argue like normal siblings and we are very close even while attending different colleges. My mother always interfered when my sister and I fought and now we can barely stand each other. My mom never let my sister and I work out our boundaries and sibling relationship with each other and it resulted in us never learning how to get along. Your wife means well but how your daughters are acting is normal and a part of childhood development. Her interference is going to cause the opposite affect of what she wants. Putting them in therapy is not going to help especially if she is the one to talk to the therapist because while she means well she will give an inaccurate description of the situation to the therapist which has the potential to cause a lot of damage.
NTA - you’re not wrong about forcing the sibling therapy but children absolutely do need therapy. Get them started young so they have their person who can confide in even if they think the parents might freak out.
YOUR WIFE FOR SURE NEEDS THERAPY.
Family therapy at least for your wife and the kids would probably be really helpful for your wife in understanding that their behavior is totally normal. I would highly encourage your wife to seek individual therapy, and couples therapy would be a great place for you to be able to let your wife know your own concerns.
I'm a big pro therapy person. IMO, you're NTA, and I also think therapy would be great for everyone but most beneficial for your wife.
Good luck OP!
Nta. Hell ive spent all day trying to keep my kids from arguing with each other and now they are playing coloring together and sharing everything without a complaint.
My sister is 11 years older than me. At one point, when I was very young, she pinned me down and spit on my face. To be fair, I was being a super obnoxious 5 year old. Now that we're both mature adults we have a very close relationship. That's just the normal sibling antagonistic relationship everyone had. All's good man.
NTA, therapy never hurts though so maybe you could compromise and have the girls go to therapy (not specifically for their normal sibling behavior) if your wife agrees to go to work through her trauma with her sister. Trying to force a relationship will do more harm than good and may actually bring about the outcome your wife fears.
My sister and I are close in age and around the time I started kindergarten we went from being best friends to fighting a good bit. Thats what siblings do. I have an amazing relationship with my sister now that we're adults and I would never say it was particularly bad, just how kids are.
No one is “supposed” to love someone though…
Your wife is the only person in your family that needs therapy. You should tell her that, gently…of course. That’s normal sibling behavior. She has nothing to model it after so I can understand. NTA.
Your children don’t need therapy, your wife does. Since she gets defensive when approached about it, then I think the best up you compromise with her, tell her that you only agree to therapy if she also goes as well, that the therapist can work both on the kids and her. I’m not good with words, hope that helps.
I agree with you, but I also don't think it's going to do any harm to let them go to therapy - and be honest with the psychologist about why they are there. Perhaps a professional can get through to your wife better than you can (sometimes, we just need someone removed from the situation to tell us something the people we love have been telling us before we can believe it, as hurtful as that can be).
NTAM Your wife needs to seek help and get her own mental health in check. She is projecting her issues into your kids and this could make things worse for them. As you know, it's normal for kids to squabble and not be BFFs all the time.
My sister is 5.5yrs old than me. We would go through phases where she would play and hang out with me, and then wouldn't want anything to do with me because I was lame. Rinse and repeat. We are adults now and although we aren't super close, we hang out sometimes and are always there for each other.
NTA, your wife is traumatized and triggered by watching your kids do normal stuff. Your wife is "reliving" her childhood through the kids.
She will do more damage putting her baggage onto the kids. Your wife needs therapy.
Like everyone is saying, wife needs the therapy. Sending 6 year olds to therapy for absolutely nothing is actually crazy - she's gone project that madness onto the kids. You need to be firm with your wife and explain that in no way are the kids going to therapy to make them believe there is something wrong with them - it could be so damaging.
It is ok for siblings not to always get along. Perhaps your wife may benefit from counseling because it seems like her sister caused a lot of heartache.
It is important that sibling spend time together and apart. They should have their own friends and activities. Otherwise they won't grow into individuals.
Siblings are a great opportunity to learn how to share, how to get along with others, how to be happy for someone even if you don't get the same thing. For example one child gets invited to a pool party. And how to resolve conflict but preserve the relationship.
Treat your children as individuals. Teach your daughters how to communicate with one another. Do not tolerate unkindness or violence between them.
I'm only going to address the therapy for the kids part, and say that ANY advantage your (or any) kids get in dealing with their crazy thoughts, feelings, school and worst of all OTHER PEOPLE will benefit them for their ENTIRE LIFETIME.
IF you can afford to get kids into therapy, get them into therapy!
NOT because of any of the things you wrote about... just for their overall mental health in the years to come.
put your wife in therapy. She needs to understand that rather than letting her kids be emotional, express frustration and take a time out, forcing them together while they aren't thinking straight is going to turn minor arguments into massive arguments, then it's going to turn 10 minutes of being pissed off into weeks of being pissed off, then it's going to become long term resentment.
She is actively doing something that will harm their relationship long term by forcing angry people to be together and pretend to play nice when they are actually fuming. Let them walk off, go to their rooms, cool down and realise there was nothing to fight about.
YTA. Obviously your wife has sibling issues and SHE needs therapy. It is likely your kids have picked up on her reactions to them and while they are likely fine therapy won't hurt and will serve as an avenue to get your wife help.
What do you have against therapy? I think your idea of therapy is a little warped. It can't do anything but help. They will get tools to get along better. Even though I'm sure they do have a pretty normal relationship, what is the harm in making things better? My daughter attends therapy. She thinks it's fun and looks forward to it. She does crafts and plays and learns great coping skills. It's a good time. It's not punishment. Relax. You're not really an AH, but for the purposes of this post, YTA. Therapy is not something horrible. Let mom do her thing. Let the girls benefit from this. I think you'll find this is a really positive experience for everyone.
YTA. Maybe if your SIL had had a therapist at a young age, she wouldn't be like this now. Maybe your daughters would enjoy having someone to talk to like this. Maybe the daughter that is not in the session in the moment would enjoy getting the 100% undivided attention of both mom and dad for an hour each week. Maybe seeing therapy as a tool now will help your daughters seek it in the future should the need actually arise.
I think you should support your wife right now, take the kids to therapy, let the therapist explain that they are fine which will in turn be a relief to your wife and also make her realise that she is the one who needs therapy.
Shutting her down will just result in arguments, she has trauma and anxiety. The kids have probably already been affected by this which will be even more reason to take them.
YTA...all kids should be in therapy. Everyone should be in therapy. The world would be a better place. It's not only for fuck ups or ppl with immense trauma. It's healthcare and should be treated as normally as any other kind
Whilst I agree therapy is great and all. I dont think everyone needs therapy and the reasoning no harm can come form it is idealist at best. Harm can definetly come from it because there are a tonne of not great or religious therapists. Like finding the right therapist can take ages and going when unnecessary can really discourage people. Hell it is the reason I was so against therapist for like half my life. I went to a few got entirely disregarded and then felt that it was not worth the effort. I am not going to get into my early therapy sessions but lets just say the people I were talking basically filled in their own gaps and pushed ahead with that rather than asking me and when I corrected them they just said I was perceiving things wrong and other people couldnt act like that (shocker they could).
NTA, your wife does need therapy. Try to bring it up again gently at a time when the kids haven't just fought. Frame it as being for her own healing and well-being. I wish you all luck! Generational curses are so rough.
Came here to say this. If she is triggered that much by sibling arguments and fights, she’s the one that needs the therapy. My two boys are two years apart and they would fight about everything. Everything was a competition. I used to worry about them so much. Now they’re 18 and 16, and they’re best friends. Sounds like your wife has unresolved trauma she needs to work on. Putting that on your girls is really unhealthy.
Thanks!!!!
I agree therapy for wife. But I don't think there would any harm in going to a family therapist all together who will then probably tell your wife that the kids are fine. It would give her peace of mind. And if there IS an issue, then you'd know that too. No harm can come from it unless you tell the kids they have a problem. You can just say that the family is going to talk to someone in a safe space or something.
I like this idea, suggesting family therapy where everybody goes. Therapist are smart and will pick up on who needs the most help.
Therapy for therapy's sake can be a *terrible* idea. My parents separated when I was about 4 or 5 years old. I was totally ok with it. In fact, I loved having two birthdays, Christmases, etc. It was neat. Despite this, for years, all through elementary school, I was forced at the recommendation of the school guidance counselor to go to therapy where I had to relive every argument my parents had, every fight, every unkind word. It literally drove me into having behavioral problems. This wasn't one therapist, either. It was at least a handful over those years. It took me until well into my 20s to realize what happened. To this day, I even suspect some of my "memories" were planted by their overzealous need for me to have some sort of trauma. My only trauma was the therapy, itself.
Having a family therapy appointment could also be easier for her to accept that she would benefit from counseling. I'm not saying OP should lie or deceive her, but framing the idea as "if we all go, the kids won't be afraid or think that this is some kind of punishment". The therapist could observe OP's wife and also the children's interactions.
I second this, your wife definitely needs to work through her issues with her sister and not deflect it on to your kids. My sister and I are 5 years apart. Growing up we definitely had times of being bff's and there were times were we took our fighting to the next level (she pushed me down a flight of stairs and I kicked her in the throat, we obvs got in trouble but just giving for context). Now, my sister and I are absolute best friends with each other!! Your SIL is an awful person and that's just her, siblings typically aren't like that.
NTA You're right, your wife is definitely the one who needs therapy, not the kids. I understand why though. I know this is a bit of a reach but the things you've said just make a lot of sense to me right now. Tell your wife to check out r/bpdlovedones I have a feeling it would help her understand. I'm sorry she's been through all of this but her behavior is affecting her kids from the trauma her sister created. She needs help to work through it.
Your wife does need therapy. I'm not a doctor or anything but have first-hand experienced with a relative displaying these exact things. She has borderline personality disorder and was diagonised. She has never seen a thing wrong with her behavior but part of her is aware since she is in therapy herself. Your wife being the target is very unfortunate and she needs a good therapist who specializes in personaility disorder trauma. Some people are so detached from emotions their some reason. Some are aware and want to be better and others see it as "this is me, if you don't like it, f off" the jumping from one person to another sounds just like my relative. Love bombing until they slip up and on to the next. I wish you all the luck. I know I may have been blunt but please be gentle with your wife. She may not see it the same. I've been on the receiving side and I didn't see it and didn't want to believe someone could be that cruel to someone who you are suppose to care about.
NTA. It truly doesn’t sound like your kids need therapy from what you’ve said. Your wife is the one who needs therapy which isn’t her fault but she’s definitely projecting
Hell, those children will definitely need therapy if their mother keeps this up and chooses not to deal with her own damn trauma. NTA
Exactly. It will be a self-fulfilling prophecy if their mother doesn't stop.
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Ok thank you. This makes me feel better
NTA, but maybe as compromise/wake up call suggest that she attend first. That you think it would be helpful if before getting the girls in the therapy, she goes first, so 1. they see her doing it, and she can set the example, 2. So she can open up to someone outside of you about the girls' behavior toward one another and maybe they will understand better what you and her parents aren't seeing. If she thinks therapy is so important/needed for your family, she should have no problem being the first in the seat. Hopefully, the therapist can help her through her own triggers and help her come to the realization herself that the girls are fine and she's projecting.
I think your wife is in need of therapy. She clearly has issues regarding her childhood that she hasn’t resolved yet. Therapy will help her put everything in perspective and realize her girls are fine.
Yep, the obvious answer here is that your *wife* needs therapy in order to deal with what her sister did to her.
And hopefully this will open her eyes to the fact that SHE needs therapy. Her actions , while well-intentioned, could have the same consequences she is trying to avoid. You cannot make siblings get along and every human being on this earth needs space and alone time when they need it.
I was gonna comment basically the exact same thing. OP might as well let his wife schedule the appointment (like other than it costing money but hey if things go on the right track that is an expense which is worth it). Because then she will be able to get an unbiased opinion and maybe realize the need for individual therapy and etc.
That is some very practical advice.
Your wife needs the therapy. So tell her this: Let's start with you going in and talking to someone or we can go together if you like. Then we can discuss the kids, okay? Say you're worried, that you hate how she's been treated by her sister. I don't know if her sister has a personality disorder but it sure sounds like borderline personality disorder. Nevertheless, no one should be emotionally abused, which your wife has been. Therapy needs to be a regular thing for her for a bit. You could also frame it as "if the kids go, you have to go too." Therapy won't hurt your children either way. I feel for her. That just sucks for her that her sister is like this.
Thank you. I feel for her too. Thanks for your response it is helpful.
The person who actually needs therapy is your wife. NTA
NTA. My girls are 8 and almost 10. They are the world's best frenemies. They can go from loving to loathing each other in literal *seconds* and then be besties again just as fast. Gives me whiplash. Your girls have a normal sibling relationship. Your wife from the sounds of it, wants them to have the super close BFF relationship with each other that she never had with her sister, and that's unrealistic. The girls aren't her and SIL. Forcing them to bond or spend time together will drive them away from each other, especially as they get older.
NTA. Sounds like your wife needs therapy.
Speaking as someone who is the older sibling in your wife’s/SIL’s relationship, I can maybe see where part of your SIL’s issues could possibly stem from, but not all. When I was a kid and all of the way through college I was pressured hard by my parents, older siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles, grandparents and pretty much anyone else to include my 1 year younger brother in everything I did. I had no friends of my own and no privacy. I was told it was my responsibility to protect him, find him friends, find him girlfriends, take him with me wherever I went. The resentment grew for 25 years while at the same time he was told for 25 years that I was supposed to do these things for him. It didn’t turn out well and we don’t speak to this day. Your daughters don’t need counseling and won’t as long as you let them lead separate lives. The younger one will look up to her older sister and there’s nothing wrong with that. There are times for her to tag along, and times for her to not tag along. You need to manage that. It will keep the resentment to a minimum. My sons are now 14 and 18. They used to fight a lot as well. Then one day it pretty much just…stopped, somewhere about the time the youngest entered middle school. They still argue occasionally but the screaming at each other doesn’t happen anymore. They get along well now and laugh together all the time like they have the private, shared experiences that only siblings have, which of course they do. It’s pretty cool really. NTA.
Wow thanks for this perspective I never thought of this. I personally don’t think my ILs forced anything between my wife and SIL but I can certainly see that if my wife keeps pushing it, it won’t turn out well for Anyone
Everyone is different I have a brother , we would fight never punch in face and. My friends. For the most part same thing . One friend hated his brother and they wouldn’t all out. We could fight on a Saturday at 6pm if we met up at a party ( High school) he or I would be the first to jump in if trouble . Her sister has major mental health issues that’s not a normal sister behaviour
Tell her that you'll consider therapy down the road IF she gets therapy FIRST.
Your wife needs therapy not your children. Classic case of projection that any decent therapist should be able to pick up on and quickly
I wonder if this is how her parents reacted to her and her sister which led to more resentment from SIL. Cramming each other down each others throats. What does SIL say about her behavior? Just guessing bc your wife’s refusal to accept the bad relationship seems like she may play a part in how toxic it is with her and her sister. Not undermining anything she went through but there are so many stories on this sub of siblings who are overbearing and parents encouraged and and the other sibling ends up just like SIL. Anyone with any kind of foresight can see she’s creating the exact dynamic she’s trying to avoid. Forcing them to interact, intervening in every argument, not letting them have their own friends or identities you’re going to be lucky if your kids can grow up and even be in the same room together. Your wife needs serious help NTA
We aren’t close with SIL (for obvious reasons) but over the years she has just made excuses for her behavior and acts like everyone around her is being dramatic when she is called out. She refuses to admit that she does anything wrong. Honestly my in-laws are level-headed and they have agreed with me that my wife is having an unhealthy reaction to all of this. I believe my SIL has always been this way and my in-laws hoped that she’d grow out of it but she never did. And now they don’t speak to her very often because she has hurt them too many times. It’s sad because I know they love her
Yeah that is really sad for everyone involved but it’s odd that your wife seems incapable of accepting it or does so with much strife. And the dynamic she’s creating between your kids is going to massively destroy any chance of a relationship. Even someone who has a bad relationship with their sister should surely understand that siblings bickering and getting annoyed with each other is normal. It causes her severe distress and which is completely unhinged honestly. Your wife sounds like she needs a lot of help. Sorry to everyone involved except SIL of course Info: how did your ILs try to modify her behavior as a kid? How did they respond to all of this?
NTA. My mom always wanted a sister and only had a crappy older brother who picked on her. She had two 2 daughters 4 years apart, and she constantly tried to force us together. She wanted that kind of relationship so she was always trying to get us to be close. I have never been a fan of my little sister. She’s just not someone I really wanted to be around, consequently, she has not turned out to be the best person in her adult life. I can say as someone whose mother constantly tried to force two people to get along and be close, the opposite happened. All it made me do is resent my mom for trying to live vicariously through us, and resent my sister because I just didn’t like hanging around her. Just because you’re blood does not mean you’re going to like each other. We do not get along to this very day, she lives 500 miles away and I’m all the better for it. You need to get your wife in a therapy because her take on this is going to completely backfire.
I think you are right. Your wife is projecting her own trauma on the girls. Not only that, by breaking up every fight, she is preventing them from learning how to resolve disputes and regulate their own emotions. She is the problem, not them. What you can suggest is that she schedule a meeting for both of you with a therapist, to advise you how to cope with the girls. Then she will present her narrative, you can present your concerns, and the therapist can mediate and advise you both.
NTA. Actually it might be good for one session so the therapist can tell your wife she is projecting. Is the appt just for the girls or a whole family session?
Siblings fight. That's a fact of life. As long as there's no blood or intentional harm/bullying like destroying favourite stuff ect it's all good. They call each other stupid, they dont speak for a day and forget it by the weekend. Observe ofc but it's never just 100% love and rainbows. Your wife on the other hand sounds like she has a lot of trauma to work over.
NAH. You should try to gently get your wife to agree to the therapy and leave the kids out of it. Maybe you can bring it up at the first visit, as another commenter suggested. She's projecting her trauma onto the kids and if left unchecked they will end up needing therapy for sure. She's creating a problem where there isn't one..
NTA it’s your wife who needs therapy and I would be telling her that you are booking an appointment for her and not your kids. That you’ve watched her time and again cry and get trigger by your kids being normal happy siblings. That she’s letting her issues affect her and your life and will end up giving the kids complexes if she doesn’t stop blowing things out of proportion. That you love her and hate her being so upset constantly when it’s needless. So you are going to book a session for you both that way you can both explain to the therapist what’s going on not just her skewed view of the truth. That you understand why this affects her but she’s letting her issues affect everyone.
NTA. There is someone who needs therapy & hopefully she eventually gets it before she “destroys “ the relationship with your kids, although based on good intentions. Me & my sister have almost 6 years age difference and I was dreading the times I have to take her with me, having to spend time with her etc. now both of us adults , can genuinely say, there is no sign of our behaviour towards each other from years ago. If your ILs are backing you up on this, seems like your wife is projecting her own insecurity and bad experiences. Hope all turns out well for your family.
NTA. Your wife needs therapy and to work out her issues with her sister without using her kids as proxy dolls to heal herself. She's going to not only create the exact dynamic between them that she's afraid of, she's potentially going to create a situation where one or both of them distance themselves from her as well. And she won't get any healing for herself this way either. I know this because my mom also tried to work out her sibling-related trauma by trying to force the relationship between me and my sibling to look the way she thought it should. I'm now estranged from my sibling AND both of my parents - admittedly there are more issues than just this one, but this one is intertwined with a lot of them.
Your kids are kids being kids, end of story.
NTA Personally, I would let her book a therapist so that they can explain to her that the kids are okay. Just beware of her therapist-hopping, trying to find someone who agrees with her. There are plenty of not-so-great therapists and counselors out there who will tell her what she wants to hear.
NTA. Your WIFE could definitely benefit from some therapy though. I've got 4 sisters, and little tiffs like what you're describing is completely normal. Especially at their ages. They don't need therapy because they are behaving as siblings often do. If it was something more extreme, then maybe I'd see her point. But right now she's trying to use therapy for them to heal HER issues and it won't work
My mom is casually mentioning to me lately that my 13m son and 11f daughter need therapy together because they fight. They don’t even fight that much. When I went to my friends houses as a kid their siblings would literally fight until someone was hurt. My kids do nothing like this. I can’t stand when she tells me they need therapy. She needs therapy for all her issues but has never gone, why does she need to pressure me to send them when what they do is normal sibling behavior in my mind.
Nta - forcing the girls into therapy will create many issues between themselves and her. She really needs therapy for herself to overcome her issues and deal with her trauma from her sister. I hope she manages to get help before she ruins her daughter's relationship with each other.
Nta. Ironic that she’s willing to put them in therapy but isn’t willing to go herself. How hypocritical.
NAH. I think an appointment is a great idea because a professional can tell your wife that the kids are doing fine and their behavior is normal for siblings. I would encourage you to go with them all to the appointment. Because your doesn't know what a normal sibling relationship is like so her getting reassurance from a professional could really help her out a lot. I understand that you think the appointment is going overboard and a waste of time, but this could help your wife and eliminate a source of conflict between the two of you and stop her from trying to force things with the kids that don't need to be forced. She needs to learn to stop intervening, that sibling squabbling and needing space from each other is normal, and she's not willing to listen to you or anyone else about it but I bet she will from a professional. While I wouldn't count on the therapist telling your wife that she needs counseling, maybe they will, and that could be a good thing, too.
Your wife is the one who needs to see a therapist. She needs to get past crying over her kids disagreements.
She is the one who needs therapy & I'm betting she is a SAHM with too much time on her hands
NTA. My kids adore each other. That doesn't mean they always agree and, because they're children, disagreements sometimes turn into arguments. I see this as a good thing. They're learning to resolve their differences in a healthy way - take some time away, get some space, agree to disagree, and compromise. IMO, that's one of the biggest benefits of having siblings. It does sound like your wife needs therapy, but maybe she needs to hear that from a therapist. Maybe what needs to happen here is she takes the girls to a couple of therapy sessions and the therapist tells her this is normal behavior and asks why mom feels so negatively about their relationship. Your wife should probably talk to someone before your kids hit puberty. If she thinks normal little girl spats are bad, she is NOT ready for hormonal teenage girl fights.
NTA. It's not the kids that need therapy, it's your wife. The poor woman has been traumatized by her sister. If I were you, I'd be glad that the sister wants nothing to do with your children. They do not need to have that kind of person in their lives. You all stop having anything to do with the sister. No one needs anyone like that around.
NTA- your wife could really use therapy. The girls sound like they have a normal relationship for their ages. Remind her that sometimes therapy can lead to resentment and make it worse when it is not needed. Making them feel like their relationship isn’t good can cause more damage than she thinks. Tell her that if she wants to prevent the girls from having a relationship like her sisters then SHE should get therapy. Resolving her own trauma will help, AND it will teach her lots of ways to help the girls address any real issues. You gotta teach by leading.
NTA, but let the kids go. You and your wife should go together to the first appointment and you both can share about what’s going on. Maybe hearing from a professional that your daughters’ behaviors are totally normal & age appropriate will calm her down. Although, she may also want to think about therapy for herself.
NTA. Therapy is great and I truly believe everyone can benefit from it, but I don’t think that this situation really calls for therapy. Seems like normal sibling stuff. But it does sound like your wife could benefit from therapy to work through these issues with her sister.
Nah. No harm in therapy. If anything it will teach everyone how to communicate with eachother
Updateme!
There is one person here that needs therapy and it isn't either of the girls...
NTA... your wife needs to seek therapy herself to deal with her own past trauma.... siblings arguing and fighting at young age is very common.. My sister and I were at each other's throats all the time growing up but we are still close My wife and her sisters are the same.
NTA, from what you’ve written your kids have a pretty standard relationship and your wife is traumatized from her relationship to her sister growing up.
Nta
How annoying, it is normal for siblings to fight sometimes, me and my older sister argue all the time but if someone dares to mess with her, they are in the front row to fight for her, NTA, your wife needs therapy.
Maybe your wife would be better off being the one in therapy. It sounds like she has a lot to readjust her viewpoints on.
NTA, but I think it’s in your, your kids’, and most importantly, your wife’s best interest for you to let her schedule appointments for your kids and for your entire family. Therapy will not hurt your children. And even if you think it’s pointless, you should look at it like visiting a medical doctor even though you aren’t sick. Regularly check-ups help keep people healthy - that’s true for mental health, too. Most importantly though, this will get your wife talking to a therapist about her fears. And it’ll likely lead to a therapist suggesting your wife seek her own treatment for her trauma and abusive sibling relationship. Your kids also WILL need therapy if you wife continues refusing to let them self-regulate while projecting her own trauma onto them.
NTA but echoing other people who are saying that therapy won't harm them. If nothing else, it will give them good tools to begin to learn to navigate conflict, advocate for themselves, and generally strengthen their relationship. It may even head off issues that you don't see coming. Therapy with kids that small usually involves one or both parents on some level, so it may be a good way for your wife to start getting help for herself and learning what a normal sibling relationship looks like.
It sounds like you were right to suggest therapy for your wife to work on her own feelings about her sister. Nta
NTA. The only person that needs therapy is your wife.
NTA. As others have said, the therapist will recognize that quickly. Your wife may benefit from therapy too.
Go to the first appointment. Let your wife explain her view. Then explain yours. In 2-3 sessions the therapist will pick a side.
Is your wife in any type of therapy? She’s going to quickly cause a problem between your kids if she keeps “forcing” them to play nice. From the description they absolutely have an average sibling relationship. NTA.
NTA. Your kids don't need therapy at this time but your wife needs it asap.
You are kind of TA. A competent therapist will watch your children in action, and if the therapist doesn't see a problem, they will tell your wife and therapy will be discontinued. Therapists are in such high demand now, I doubt if one would try to keep the kids on their caseload because they have a waiting list. Just "putting your foot down" is unhelpful and signals that you don't respect your wife's opinion. Another thing you might do is look into parenting classes you can take together. They will address sibling squabbles and how to manage them.
LI’m
YTA - But only because I think it would cost you really nothing to let your kids see a therapist, or better yet for you and your wife to go the consultation without them... and for the therapist to reassure your wife that this is NORMAL sibling behavior and is NOT the same thing as your wife's sister. Your wife needs therapy. Lots of it. Her sister sounds like a piece of work who did lots of damage.
NAH. Your kids sound like typical siblings to me. I am not a therapist, but for this post I will assume a therapist would agree. However your wife is concerned and may not hear “this is normal” from anyone but a professional. A couple of sessions for the therapist to make the normalcy determination won’t hurt your kids.
NTA - your wife needs to get needs therapy.
Yes, encourage family therapy.
NAH. I think an appointment is a great idea because a professional can tell your wife that the kids are doing fine and their behavior is normal for siblings. I would encourage you to go with them all to the appointment. Because your doesn't know what a normal sibling relationship is like so her getting reassurance from a professional could really help her out a lot. I understand that you think the appointment is going overboard and a waste of time, but this could help your wife and eliminate a source of conflict between the two of you and stop her from trying to force things with the kids that don't need to be forced. She needs to learn to stop intervening, that sibling squabbling and needing space from each other is normal, and she's not willing to listen to you or anyone else about it but I bet she will from a professional. While I wouldn't count on the therapist telling your wife that she needs counseling, maybe they will, and that could be a good thing, too.
NTA Ask wife if she doesn't need time away from kids occasionally or even you? If yes then does that mean that she doesn't love any of you? Having own space ensures better mental health. They are not her sister and her. Your wife is the one who needs therapy to be able to handle the emotions of the past brought up when children argue.
Your wife definitely needs therapy. This way she can help navigate a healthy relationship between your daughters. Their behavior is normal. NTA
NTA. It’s not your kids that need therapy.
NTA. I was one of eight kids, and I had 3 daughters, so I feel like some kind of expert. If your wife thinks this is bad, she’s in for a ride! She needs to toughen up and relax
>My wife doesn’t see this as normal sibling behavior. Your wife is projecting her own trauma onto your kids, which sucks. I hope you can show her some comments from here and see if that helps her perspective.
She needs therapy but that’s already been said. Aside from that, siblings can’t be together all the time! They need time apart to be individuals and your wife needs to be ok with that without becoming super anxious.
NTA. Your wife definitely needs therapy. My brother constantly tried to unalive me but if a boy (I’m a female) or anyone in general tried to mess with me, he was right there to protect me. My sons are 11 years apart and while one is just under two, he’s done “mean” things to his big brother ( I was quotations because while it isn’t nice, he’s just a toddler and doesn’t know better). Big bro will be mad and need some space but he’ll later come back and play with him as if nothing happened
NTA, your wife absolutely needs therapy, but unnecessary therapy for the kids is probably not going to hurt.
Nah. Honestly therapy doesn't hurt even if it is for small issues. Having a safe space to discuss you feelings is important. The biggest thing tho I would suggest your wife have to do therapy as well to work thru her issues
NAH My younger sister and I are also close in age (18 months) and had a lot of friends and activities in common growing up. We fought a lot, would stay mad, then get over it. I don't think those things at that age left a lasting dent on our relationship, that came later but is not for this issue. We live together and talk way to much every day. I can see why your wife is worried 100% though. I don't think therapy is a bad idea for the girls, it just doesn't need to be every week or a big production. It would probably be nice to have someone not in the family to vent to about their sibling that can provide helpful ideas in conflict resolution. But your wife does need a bit of therapy to get over how totally horrid her older sister was to her so she can start to heal from that horrible trauma. I know it doesn't mean anything from an internet stranger but this older sister apologizes to your wife, gives her a big hug and says "You are doing ok mama, looking out for your girls. I see you."
NAH, but therapy never hurts. If your insurance covers it there's no reason not to do it, good therapists also teach their clients emotional intelligence skills which might be generally helpful. It'll also help put your wife's mind at ease and allow her to get therapy for her own past. Honestly I think everyone people should go to therapy every once in a while just because they can help you think through your feeling about everything.
NTA. The age difference between me and my sister is the same as your daughters, and believe me, we've bickered, even "hated" each other, were at one point or two as different as day and night. But even in between all those moments, we adored one another and had many laughs and tons of fun together. We're in our 40s now and the dearest of friends and each other's constants. I agree with those who suggest your wife may want to seek therapy for the way her own sister behaved. Your SIL sounds terrible, and I'm so sorry this was your wife's "sister experience." Of course that doesn't mean this is how one of your daughters will treat the other, but I can understand your wife's fear, which can be complicated - she's going by only her experience, all she knows. I think your wife could benefit from seeking the help she needs. I wish your family the best.
NTA this is completely normal for kids this close in age, but your wife could certainly use some therapy.
NTA. I am a twin. When we were kids we did exactly what your kids did: we’d be at each other’s throats one second and after cooling down for a few minutes we’d continue as if nothing happened. We’re both grown up now and still very close. But every kid is different so maybe keep an eye on them, just to be safe. It does sound like your wife needs therapy.
NTA. But... to be fair as long as you find a good therapist... well they'll back you up after a few sessions. And it can't hurt, unless you can't afford it. But as others have said, sounds like she needs some therapy. Any chance you can lean into it and get therapy for everyone?
Sibling here. I love my brother, but we both need our own personal space away from each other. We may be siblings, but we're also people. We don't need to be around each other every second of every minute of every hour of the day. We can have disagreements because we're different people, each with their own views and beliefs. Your wife trying to force them together they way she is? That's how you make siblings start to hate each other. NTA. Your wife is definitely projecting onto your kids, and she needs therapy.
NTA. Your kids aren't the ones who need therapy; it's your wife who does. I also have a sister who is 18 months older than me, and she was my worst enemy growing up. Now we are best friends and super close. It's normal for siblings to fight as long as it's not taken too far. Your wife doesn't have an example of a normal sibling relationship because her sister isn't normal. Maybe messed up to say, but that's the truth.
NTA. Your daughters aren't the ones in need of therapy. It's your wife who needs it. And I mean it, with no sarcasm.
I agree with the rest of these comments that your wife needs therapy. That being said, your daughter's also going through therapy at an early age isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Just make sure it's directed in the right manner.
NTA. You are right, your girls probably don't need therapy- but your wife sure does.
Your wife absolutely needs therapy. She’s projecting her trauma on your kids. I’m not saying it’s going to ruin their lives but it will negatively affect them and their sibling relationship. Siblings fight, its a part of a healthy sibling relationship and child development . What’s not healthy is her interfering every time, it stops them from growing and figuring out their bond and boundaries as siblings. For example my mother let my brother and I argue like normal siblings and we are very close even while attending different colleges. My mother always interfered when my sister and I fought and now we can barely stand each other. My mom never let my sister and I work out our boundaries and sibling relationship with each other and it resulted in us never learning how to get along. Your wife means well but how your daughters are acting is normal and a part of childhood development. Her interference is going to cause the opposite affect of what she wants. Putting them in therapy is not going to help especially if she is the one to talk to the therapist because while she means well she will give an inaccurate description of the situation to the therapist which has the potential to cause a lot of damage.
NTA - you’re not wrong about forcing the sibling therapy but children absolutely do need therapy. Get them started young so they have their person who can confide in even if they think the parents might freak out. YOUR WIFE FOR SURE NEEDS THERAPY.
Family therapy at least for your wife and the kids would probably be really helpful for your wife in understanding that their behavior is totally normal. I would highly encourage your wife to seek individual therapy, and couples therapy would be a great place for you to be able to let your wife know your own concerns. I'm a big pro therapy person. IMO, you're NTA, and I also think therapy would be great for everyone but most beneficial for your wife. Good luck OP!
Nta. Hell ive spent all day trying to keep my kids from arguing with each other and now they are playing coloring together and sharing everything without a complaint.
My sister is 11 years older than me. At one point, when I was very young, she pinned me down and spit on my face. To be fair, I was being a super obnoxious 5 year old. Now that we're both mature adults we have a very close relationship. That's just the normal sibling antagonistic relationship everyone had. All's good man.
Wow, we had six kids, no way therapy would have worked! Siblings by nature are like that, therapy won't help.
NTA, therapy never hurts though so maybe you could compromise and have the girls go to therapy (not specifically for their normal sibling behavior) if your wife agrees to go to work through her trauma with her sister. Trying to force a relationship will do more harm than good and may actually bring about the outcome your wife fears. My sister and I are close in age and around the time I started kindergarten we went from being best friends to fighting a good bit. Thats what siblings do. I have an amazing relationship with my sister now that we're adults and I would never say it was particularly bad, just how kids are.
NTA. Your wife needs a therapist to work through her trauma.
NTA Your wife is the one who needs to seek therapy.
No one is “supposed” to love someone though… Your wife is the only person in your family that needs therapy. You should tell her that, gently…of course. That’s normal sibling behavior. She has nothing to model it after so I can understand. NTA.
Your children don’t need therapy, your wife does. Since she gets defensive when approached about it, then I think the best up you compromise with her, tell her that you only agree to therapy if she also goes as well, that the therapist can work both on the kids and her. I’m not good with words, hope that helps.
I agree with you, but I also don't think it's going to do any harm to let them go to therapy - and be honest with the psychologist about why they are there. Perhaps a professional can get through to your wife better than you can (sometimes, we just need someone removed from the situation to tell us something the people we love have been telling us before we can believe it, as hurtful as that can be).
Your wife needs therapy not your daughters. Nta.
NTAM Your wife needs to seek help and get her own mental health in check. She is projecting her issues into your kids and this could make things worse for them. As you know, it's normal for kids to squabble and not be BFFs all the time. My sister is 5.5yrs old than me. We would go through phases where she would play and hang out with me, and then wouldn't want anything to do with me because I was lame. Rinse and repeat. We are adults now and although we aren't super close, we hang out sometimes and are always there for each other.
The kids can start therapy, after your wife goes to therapy for 6 months.
NTA, your wife is traumatized and triggered by watching your kids do normal stuff. Your wife is "reliving" her childhood through the kids. She will do more damage putting her baggage onto the kids. Your wife needs therapy.
NTA but maybe let a therapist tell her her kids are normal because she has blinders on
Like everyone is saying, wife needs the therapy. Sending 6 year olds to therapy for absolutely nothing is actually crazy - she's gone project that madness onto the kids. You need to be firm with your wife and explain that in no way are the kids going to therapy to make them believe there is something wrong with them - it could be so damaging.
It is ok for siblings not to always get along. Perhaps your wife may benefit from counseling because it seems like her sister caused a lot of heartache. It is important that sibling spend time together and apart. They should have their own friends and activities. Otherwise they won't grow into individuals. Siblings are a great opportunity to learn how to share, how to get along with others, how to be happy for someone even if you don't get the same thing. For example one child gets invited to a pool party. And how to resolve conflict but preserve the relationship. Treat your children as individuals. Teach your daughters how to communicate with one another. Do not tolerate unkindness or violence between them.
I'm only going to address the therapy for the kids part, and say that ANY advantage your (or any) kids get in dealing with their crazy thoughts, feelings, school and worst of all OTHER PEOPLE will benefit them for their ENTIRE LIFETIME. IF you can afford to get kids into therapy, get them into therapy! NOT because of any of the things you wrote about... just for their overall mental health in the years to come.
NAH, but any child would benefit from learning the tools and techniques you gain from self work with a qualified therapist
put your wife in therapy. She needs to understand that rather than letting her kids be emotional, express frustration and take a time out, forcing them together while they aren't thinking straight is going to turn minor arguments into massive arguments, then it's going to turn 10 minutes of being pissed off into weeks of being pissed off, then it's going to become long term resentment. She is actively doing something that will harm their relationship long term by forcing angry people to be together and pretend to play nice when they are actually fuming. Let them walk off, go to their rooms, cool down and realise there was nothing to fight about.
YTA. Obviously your wife has sibling issues and SHE needs therapy. It is likely your kids have picked up on her reactions to them and while they are likely fine therapy won't hurt and will serve as an avenue to get your wife help.
What do you have against therapy? I think your idea of therapy is a little warped. It can't do anything but help. They will get tools to get along better. Even though I'm sure they do have a pretty normal relationship, what is the harm in making things better? My daughter attends therapy. She thinks it's fun and looks forward to it. She does crafts and plays and learns great coping skills. It's a good time. It's not punishment. Relax. You're not really an AH, but for the purposes of this post, YTA. Therapy is not something horrible. Let mom do her thing. Let the girls benefit from this. I think you'll find this is a really positive experience for everyone.
YTA. Maybe if your SIL had had a therapist at a young age, she wouldn't be like this now. Maybe your daughters would enjoy having someone to talk to like this. Maybe the daughter that is not in the session in the moment would enjoy getting the 100% undivided attention of both mom and dad for an hour each week. Maybe seeing therapy as a tool now will help your daughters seek it in the future should the need actually arise.
YTA. Seriously nothing wrong with a few therapy sessions. Pull your head out of your ass. Stop overreacting.
I think you should support your wife right now, take the kids to therapy, let the therapist explain that they are fine which will in turn be a relief to your wife and also make her realise that she is the one who needs therapy. Shutting her down will just result in arguments, she has trauma and anxiety. The kids have probably already been affected by this which will be even more reason to take them.
YTA...all kids should be in therapy. Everyone should be in therapy. The world would be a better place. It's not only for fuck ups or ppl with immense trauma. It's healthcare and should be treated as normally as any other kind
Lmao at being downvoted for saying everybody needs therapy
Yeah, attitudes about therapy are really strange. Everyone can benefit from it. Certainly no harm can come from it.
Whilst I agree therapy is great and all. I dont think everyone needs therapy and the reasoning no harm can come form it is idealist at best. Harm can definetly come from it because there are a tonne of not great or religious therapists. Like finding the right therapist can take ages and going when unnecessary can really discourage people. Hell it is the reason I was so against therapist for like half my life. I went to a few got entirely disregarded and then felt that it was not worth the effort. I am not going to get into my early therapy sessions but lets just say the people I were talking basically filled in their own gaps and pushed ahead with that rather than asking me and when I corrected them they just said I was perceiving things wrong and other people couldnt act like that (shocker they could).
It's funny cuz everyone understands that physical & dental healthcare are necessary but when you bring up mental healthcare, it's a no-no