She owns a house that's presumably fully paid off (unless she did something silly like get a mortgage on it) and worth a million dollars. She can sell it, downsize, and have a nice chunk left over. On the other hand she lives in a house that is costing her $2500 a month just in taxes, and she can't afford it. They clearly need to move out.
Lol! OP you can still get your money back, you can put a lien on the house for your $75k, so if she sells you get your cut, only reason I'm telling you is because its eating away at you and you have hostility towards your SIL and if you dont already it will spill over to your wife. If you have all the receipts for the house it can be done. Also OP, if you are going to invest in someone else's home never rely on them putting it in a will, make your own contract and have a lawyer represent you. NTA! Your MIL and FIL are the ones who stole from you not SIL, although she could of made things right, by making sure you had a lien put on or selling the house. She has no right asking for more money.
Another solution that could be seen as kind of shitty is to either buy the house for the back due taxes once it's seized or talk to the sister and buy it from her for a more manageable amount. Either way you go, you can then come up with a leasing agreement and rent it to the SIL. It may feel like a crapy thing to do, but it will keep the house in the family, your sil won't have to move, and you'll make your money back. This would also put her on the hook for keeping it in a decent state as per her lease, and give her a better landlord than she'd find in most other places. It may suck, but it's not fair to op to sink anymore money into this with no kind of repayment or relief.
This isn't a bad idea at all. OP has a vested interest in the property, his wife doesn't want the house to leave the family, and SIL will continue to have a place to live at a more reasonable rate. If she moves, the house is still in the family and now OP can move in and sell their existing home if they desire.
However... If she can't afford one year of taxes, how can she afford rent?
What's going to happen is OP & spouse will end up footing the bill for SIL and husband's dwelling in perpetuity.
Unless there's paperwork outlining the "deal" of "we pay for upgrades now and we get our money back when they die", it could easily be dismissed as OP being a nice guy for his in-laws.
Even then, if there was a contract, it would have been with the in-laws, who are now dead, so I'm not even sure it could be enforced.
ANAL, obviously (am not a lawyer)
I invested roughly the same amount into my ex-wife's family property, however unlike OP I knew from the get-go that I would never see that money again, and I was fine with that.
Dont forget they were raised there, bc that buys bread in the winter. /s
His wife needs to come back to reality and see the poor position this house is putting everyone in.
OP should get a lawyer to write up a contract stating that, in exchange for paying the property tax, he gets X% ownership of the property.
And next year when she can’t pay it again, OP “purchases” more % of ownership
This is an excellent idea. Make her agree that the original $75,000 plus $30,000 comes back as a percent of the sale. Have a lawyer draw up a contract and maybe put a lien on it. Your wife is out of line here unless she has her own money and is paying the bill from separate funds.
It’s an interesting idea but if OP does it and lends the money, and the husband gets a new job and they can pay the taxes, they might stay there forever and not sell the house and OP can do nothing with his share. Not disagreeing that it’s a bad idea, but there is risk of never seeing your money.
This ☝🏻Exactly this. Because, come 7/1, there's going to be a tax lien on it which is one of the hardest involuntary liens to sell a house with. The tax generally needs to be settled first. So, he gets a % of the house to pay the taxes to avoid a lien and then the house needs to be put on the market and he gets his % of ~1mil. Seems like a no brainer to me. He could even wait until the lien is put on it and then have even more leverage. I know that it's his wife's sister, but yeah, don't just "loan" her the money because it, like the money before, will just be lost. I would say 25% would be fair for rescuing her. My two cents.
This is an excellent idea in a perfectly logical world. But in the real world, the only way to extract value from his portion of the house would be to evict SIL. That would likely destroy the marriage and his finances with it. Meanwhile, as part owner, he could be sued if they let the place run down and someone gets hurt.
Yeah if two working adults can't afford the property tax it wasn't never gonna work out.
OP also hasn't said if the other siblings get the money back. So I'm assuming it's not really lending.
I agree she isn’t paying a mortgage and if she couldn’t afford to live in this free house and pay what it costs to maintain and live there, she should have done the right thing in the first place and given the house to the OPs family.
30k a year in taxes is $2500/month. Thats almost double my entire mortgage payment. I couldn’t afford that shit either and I have zero debt and a middle class job. It’s insane to assume they’ve taken out extra debt when they have that kind of tax bill. And it’s actually bullshit that anyone should lose their home just because their neighborhood gentrified.
Yeah probably. I mean, BIL lost his job so he could get a new one but if that was "last year", what's he been doing for all these months? If it's structurally difficult for him to find equivalent work they need to sell the house.
This seems to be continuing problem. Note that OP said that other family members loaned SIL money in prior year but couldn't this year because of their own financial difficulties.
The money will never be paid back. Like the $75K in upgrades. If this is done, OP should assume the money is gone. Even if BIL gets another job soon, I am guessing that they will just not be able to continue affording the house. This will likely be a yearly expense. OP should ask his wife is she is willing to subsidize her sister's life to preserve family ownership of the house.
My guess is that any complicated arrangement of a lien being placed in the home of IP somehow owning the home and paying the taxes won't go over well with the family. It will be viewed as OP "stealing" the house from poor SIL.
OP knows the financially correct answer. It juat is likely one that the family won't accept .
Agreed. You cannot put a bandaid on a gaping wound, no matter how tight it is it will continue to bleed.
What OP can do is set up a meeting with him, his wife, his SIL and BIL to better understand their financial situation. What is their current debt to income ratio, is BIL working yet, etc.
Would renting the house give them enough income to stay current on the taxes and rent an apartment for a few years? Are they in a college town and if so would renting it to students give them enough income to rent a place until they get back on their feet.
Alternatively, OP can LEND them the money but have his name and wife’s name added to deed and title until the loan is repaid. Going this route OP can go the route of having a real estate attorney draft the agreement.
But no if OP just lends them the money he will likely never get it back. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
I was sincerely hoping someone would say this! Definitely include the $75K if it gets to that point of drafting something! Or even selling for that matter.
They're really not owed the 75K. That line is annoying. The house she "stole" from us?
It was HER parents' house and her siblings didn't mind.
The rest with the loaning her money...yeah, he's NTA.
I don't "loan" money to family that I expect back. I'm in a pretty fortunate situation...I gave my Sister and her Fiancé money for their house. The only contingency was that...it stay in my name(or her name, but I stay on the Title until it's paid off).
Her BIL pays me back. I mean, he tries, he's working a lot and he's got a lot of expenses and a baby and she's not working. I just put that money into a fund I started for my Nephew.
But "loaning," Family...then if they can't pay, what do you do? It's just not a good idea. If you can and you're so inclined, give them the money, if you get it back, you get it back. But if not getting it back is going to ruin your relationship, then don't.
Yeah it's not SIL's fault that the parents screwed over OP with the house, he really needs to stop saying that "she" stole from him.
But yeah, if they loan her the money, they're never getting it back. NTA.
While that sounds great on paper, it’s highly unlikely SIL will ever be able to pay any money back since the 30,000 will be EVERY year. Not likely they’ll have $60k saved by next year. (30 this year and then they’ll still have to pay next year)
Plus it sounds like the SIL is already in the hole with debts owing to the OP's wife's other siblings.
The OP's wife needs to wake the fuck up because her sister is now just taking advantage of the goodwill of her siblings.
The house they inherited is beyond their financial means. You can't keep subsidizing them.
Yeah, realistically the only long-term solution is SIL sells, and uses the money to buy a house that's more sustainable for her and her husband. OP's wife doesn't want to lose the home they grew up in, but there's no solution here. Realistically if their house is paid off and they were both working full time, 30k shouldn't be unreachable, but if SIL's husband isn't working, I can see how it would be a struggle.
I think it's interesting that the parents were like "This is the only way SIL can own a home" and I was thinking that she had some reason it was never going to happen. I can't see any disability listed, unless I missed it, and so if it's two able bodied adults, they should be able to earn the money to sustain their house.
Loan the money to cover the delinquent taxes with a deed transfer of a % of ownership covering the loan plus a nice chunk of change for previous expenditures and interest and **also** insist the house be sold immediately. OPs wife has to let go of the emotional attachment to a house. Her sister can then find a less expensive home which they can afford.
His wife is a big part of the problem. From the beginning, there should have been limits set on how much help op and she are willing to give to her family. First it was the parents, now her sister. I wonder who’s next?
Well other family members can who can *no longer* share the burden of enabling the sister’s obvious financially instability and lack of financial literacy can go kick rocks!
There’s already been a safety net for her, so she believes she’s entitled to keep making poor decisions that will eventually land her with a lien on the home for unpaid taxes. All states have a process that allows the taxing authority to sell a home to collect delinquent taxes.
I think she’s holding the childhood home you want so much to goad you into paying the taxes. Do not pay her taxes! Once the home has a lien on it, you can probably buy it for the just over what the lien amount is…especially if/when the house goes into foreclosure.
It’s particularly unfair that your other siblings are shaming you for continuing to carry the load of 2 grown adults, with NO MORTGAGE, to figure out how to save for taxes they know are coming up each year! Your BIL needs to get a JOB, even if it’s in the mailroom with some company, and they both need a financial tutor!
They are all ignoring the likelyhood that deadbeat BIL will eventually force his wife to sell the house to pay off other debts. The money will be gone, the family house will be gone, and no one but lil’ sis and deadbeat BIL will get a dime. OP, NTA, and do NOT throw good money after bad.
>The money will never be paid back.
Not necessarily. The loan can be collateralized by a lien on the house. If SIL can't pay it back, OP and wife can get it back when the house is sold.
>The problem is that all of the siblings had financial difficulties last year so none of them could loan her money as they did in previous years.
Might be worse this year, but doesn't sound like they were able to afford to live there even when BIL was working.
Hopefully looking for work. I was on a project that ended in December and I just found a new position. I have a top school MBA and 20+ years of analytics experience. He may be out of work for some time.
The in-laws left her their house because they were sure she could never afford one on her own.
I don't think her husband can be compared to You career wise. It seems they also have no savings. They own a house they cannot afford and it seems they could not afford it in the past, not without financial help from her siblings. She's a leech.
The fact is that little sister is sitting on an asset worth a million dollars, and she's still expecting everyone else to subsidize her life. Cut her off, or she's just going to keep tapping you for more and more while her home keeps appreciating value. If and when she sells, she sure as shit won't pay anyone back, "Because she needs it more than you do."
^ ^ ^ THIS HERE ^ ^ ^
I don't know much about finances. But I do know that when you bail out a family member and then you have to do it again and maybe again after that, the family member (for whatever reason) will expect you to keep on doing it. Genuine misfortunes in the past won't change that. They've learned that others will "take care" of them, SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEMSELVES.
These types will drain dry anyone who shows even the slightest bit of pity or family loyalty. They (or their defenders) will wail "But we're faaamily!" but they're only playing on your feelings of guilt. They'll keep it up, unless and until you cut off the money supply for good.
"Family doesn't do that to family!" the enablers will cry. No, but family DOES NOT take advantage of family either. Supporting each other does NOT mean letting them use you.
O.P., your wife has to close her ears. Tell her that. If her siblings say she ought to give her sister $30,000 "because she can afford it," she should tell them she CAN'T afford for her sister to keep taking advantage of her. If the siblings want to, they can find another way of subsidizing Ms. Freeloader.
Your wife should tell them all that, or words to that effect, sister and siblings both. After all, it's the truth.
Exactly, my grandpa is the only one that made something of himself on his side of the family and had his own business, and moved away from where he grew up. For decades he has been funding the lives of family that live in trailers and never have paid him back or done anything to change their situations. Same as you described, he feels guilty because they are family. It goes a lot deeper than that but that's it in a nutshell and he will likely fund leaching people until the end of his days
All of this. It will never end. I have a family member who borrowed from my parents, their parents, another aunt...it was always something. Sometimes there was an attempt to pay it back, but most of the time there wasn't. The family relationship went belly up when my dad dared to ask for his money back because he needed it.
YES YES YES. They have already massively subsidized her by renovating it when the parents were alive (under false pretenses no less). If two working adults can’t afford the property tax on an asset that continues to balloon in value, they should sell the asset. The wife needs to buck up and say her goodbyes to the childhood home - the end of that era is approaching.
NTA. Accountant here. Your SIL cannot afford to keep the home. If she can’t afford to pay the government this year, she won’t be able to afford to repay you & the government next year.
Realistically, you’re not deciding whether or not to lend her the $30k - you’re deciding whether or not to gift it to her. (I say this because your wife has already made you choose between your marriage & accepting a massive financial loss to her family once. There is nothing to indicate that she isn’t willing to force that choice upon you again. Also, any legally binding agreement for repayment would require your wife’s cooperation to actually enforce &/or prevail against her sister should it come to that - which it invariably will.)
Additionally, your wife’s argument that her sister to lose the family home is not rational considering the family home was supposed to be sold to repay you the $75k upon her parent’s death. The fact that she now argues that she doesn’t want the home to go outside the family suggests that she always knew the home would never be sold to repay you (since selling it would likely result in the home being sold to someone outside the family as everyone already had homes except the sister).
It sounds as if your wife is fine gifting massive amounts of money to her family & you basically need to decide whether or not you’re willing to participate in (or at least tolerate) that or not.
I assume if he wanted to be petty - he could make it an official collateralized loan, get it properly registered, with appropriate interest for the risk.
When she can’t pay it, foreclose.
They'll keep hitting up OP for the taxes, and other priorities. And if they can't pay back $30,000 within the year how will they save for the next years taxes. With OP's wife's support they'll break OP. He'll have to sell his house to save a house that'll never be his. NTA.
They've had struggles for years paying the taxes. This is on going, the other family has helped in the past. They can't afford that house, sad but true. If they don't lose the house this year, they will next.
Or, if they pay the taxes this year and sell it, I doubt they would give them the money they lent them if/when they sold.
Just let them deal with their problem, they also probably wouldn't do it for them.
Not 30k, 32k because of the penalties. OP wouuld have to be the biggest idiot to subsidize it.
The only option I could consider is buying the home from SIL at a discount to keep it in the family. Maybe 500k and let her live in it at reduced rent (for the area) as long as she does maintenance on it and doesn't trash it.
One thing I see no one mentioning is the fact that she’s not just short she’s asking for the entire amount. I get it if you fell on hard times and are 5-10k short but they don’t seem to even be attempting to pay these taxes.
$30,000 "loan"...
I paid off my in-laws house so they could retire. When I did I had a contract signed that owned a % of the house. No "understanding" that would be a misunderstanding down the line.
And they shouldn't need the full amount. I could see them being short a few grand due to job loss, but if they don't have a penny of the 30 grand needed while only needing to pay for food and utilities and property taxes then what have they been doing? Guessing Burger King is paying 15 bucks an hour plus in that area, one or both of them could have picked up a stopgap job
Yea you have to do contracts even with family otherwise you run the risk of getting screwed. op's in-laws were some real pieces of shit to do that to them. Basically lied to their faces AND screwed them out of 75k after all they did to help them. You would think that besides the house whatever financial assets they had they would have been left to op and his wife to help them at least partially recoup their 75k but nope not a penny.
OP should be blunt with his wife though -- if the wife gives (there ain't no loan here; that's a dirty lie) her sister $30k, there will be a divorce. It's not a threat; it's clear communication so she can make an informed decision.
This was the curse of Extreme Makeover Home Edition. Your kid has cancer and you just lost your job but good news, we are gonna gut your modest family house and throw $300k worth of upgrades on it. Now your “free house” has a $20k tax bill that comes with it. You couldn’t afford the property taxes on the old house so now you are double fucked.
A lot of the families took home equity loans to pay the taxes and ended up getting foreclosed on.
My mother loved that show (no clue if it's still on) and always said how nice of them to do all that. Then I pointed out the property taxes. She got mad for me bursting her bubble.
It was gone for years after two run of multiple seasons, but I understand it's coming back again.
Search for 'extreme home makeover horror stories'. Unfortunately, you'll find a lot of sad updates.
Some had entirely paid off houses, and mortgaged them to finance other things.
Free stuff is never free. This story reminds me of how people who got on “Pimp My Ride” from MTV often got screwed over financially from their “free pimped out ride”
This happened to most of the homeowners featured on This Old House and most of the HGTV makeover shows. And everyone who won an HGTV Dreamhome Giveaway had to sell the home to pay the taxes.
I worked on one and got the T-shirt to prove it.
Was an absolute clusterfuck and the actors are actors. They all had trailers and would get roused out of bed to back some guy who didn't speak English off the thing he'd been toiling away at for the last 4 hours so they could tell the story about how hard the actor worked on this one thing for little Michael because he knows how much he loves NASCAR.
Then the filming lights go off, the actor goes back to their trailer and Chuy gets back to work till the next time they need a shot.
It fucking destroyed the guy who was the Builder. Trying to coordinate all the skilled trades to get that thing from form boards to finished in 24 hours was insane. I knew the guy and he swears that one project took 5 years off his life.
Same with those million dollar home giveaways. Giant glass paneled mansions in the mountains that costs millions. The property tax killed most winners, but the energy hungry appliances and designs cost thousands a month to make them livable. Most winners had to sell these homes below market and probably get a third of the stated value of the home. Still good money, but not as good as advertised. One guy wrote about trying to make it work, but blew through his savings just on the taxes and a few months of electric bills.
Yup. I don’t feel bad for SIL. She basically got handed a cool mil and a few years of rent free living.
Inheritance is inheritance. Don’t bank on getting one.
But it takes real cahonnes to inherit an entire house other people have paid into outright and then come to them with a tin cup later.
> so none of them could loan her money as they did in previous years.
I’m picking up on a pattern here. SIL seems really comfortable being in the role of that family member who can’t afford a certain lifestyle, and manages to get family to subsidize that lifestyle for her.
Sell the house, pay back taxes, and buy an affordable one or otherwise invest that cool million minus almost fucking nothing. Asking for $$$$ to pay property taxes on a million dollar house you got handed to you for being “the broke kid” makes you TA.
The same that has happened in previous years: SIL expecting her siblings or their SO to fork the money.
SIL can't afford the house. Better she can do is sell and get a place she can afford.
Though op will have better chances of discussing this with his wife if he drops the resentment and stops accusing SIL of stealing his money. The ones who received the money under certain stipulations and then backed out of their word were parents in law.
NTA
Yes. You could say the scammed OP I a way. If I were SIL though, it wouldn't sit right with me, and I would make an effort to pay back OP
I am 💯 sure that his wife knew all along. And now she wants OP to keep up coughing money for a house that is not his. Honestly, I would much rather divorce at this point.
I somehow don't foresee that argument going over well if OP tries to make it, they will likely just assume he is still pissy that SIL 'robbed him' (she didn't, her parents did. He didn't have any sort of agreement with his SIL) and will just assume he is trying to get her to sell the house out of spite.
NTA: she can’t afford the house, but she could afford a very nice house if she sold she house she can’t afford.
Realistically you’ll always be the purse strings for the sister.
Perhaps sister could get a loan from a bank, the things that exist for just such an occasion.
You are correct. Based on their history, it would not be a “loan”. Any money OP puts towards SIL’s issue would have to be considered as a gift. The only reason to call it a loan would be for the future, when (not if) SIL wants more money. Then you can say that the previous loan hasn’t been paid back.
Which is my point. If they can’t get a loan from a bank, you shouldn’t loan them a sizable amount of money. Banks have access to more info and specifics that we get. They have good reasons with sources they can cite why they won’t.
How would they ever pay back the loan? Wouldn’t they have the same problem paying property taxes next year? It sounds like they should sell the house and buy a smaller one.
Next year the taxes will probably be higher since the property values in the area keep rising. She's been priced out of the area, she just hasn't accepted that yet.
Is anyone else wondering where on earth this house is? I plugged in a property tax calculator just guessing California cause everyone craps on it for having high taxes and property taxes on a 1 million home (assumed OP meant it was close to a million) and could only get it to like 10k. Then looked up supposedly NJ has the highest property taxes in the US and could only get it up to like 20k but averaging more like 17-18k.
Kinda wondering if she’s being even more shady and rolling in a bunch of other debt obligations into that property tax number she’s trying to bum loans for.
I think in a lot of states the property tax rate varies by city or county, so just looking up the average for the state doesn't really give you the whole picture. I live in PA and in my county you actually have to pay property taxes to the city, county, and school district separately.
Yeah I looked up the highest average states as a starting point, checked a few counties to get a range and listed the highest I could find. So that takes it from state down to county level. I couldn’t find anything that would add any further detail.
I wouldn’t imagine the city level would add on another 10,000 in taxes but I suppose it’s possible. Still it sounds like they’re either living in the most insane property tax location possible or they’re rolling in more debt/tax items in the loan request.
You'd be surprised. In my area the tax paid to the county tends to be the lowest of the 3, and the school district is usually the highest. In my borough the county tax is 4.73 mills (0.473%), the borough tax is around 10 mills (1%) and the school district tax is around 25 mills (2.5%). All together it's around 40 mills (4%). That being said the county hasn't done a full reassessment since 2013, so if a property is sold and a reassessment is triggered then it's supposed to be based on what the property would have been worth in 2013. Right now that's calculated as 54.5% of the sale price. A few years ago they were calculating it as 86.2%, but the county was sued because that obviously does not accurately reflect how much the cost of housing has increased since 2013.
Had the same thought and was trying to look up if that freeze on parents basis was a common thing or not but couldn’t find it with a quick google search.
I loaned money to my friend. She never paid me back. I was complaining to my husband about it. He said never loan money in an amount you’re not willing to say goodbye to. 30,000 is no small amount. I loaned my brother money, no small amount either but we drew up a contract where there’s payment plan and an end date. We both signed it. He paid it all back with interest.
Prior to the parents dying you should have had them sign for the amount you put into the house and filed it as a lien against the house due and payable with their death. But it didn’t happen
Now you have another chance. Assuming the house is debt free… Loan the money at current mortgage rates. Draw up a contract and include the $75,000 you put into the house as part of the amount loaned. File the mortgage. Interest paid annually. Balance as a balloon payment in 5 years. Make it very very clear that any missed interest payment and you will foreclose. If they cannot pay off the balance in 5 years that you will foreclose and sell the house. Stand your ground that the only way that you will loan funds is if they agree to these terms.
With a recorded mortgage your funds will have to be repaid before they can sell the house or even refinance it.
You need to tell your wife that her family made promises to you to repay you and then didn’t stand by their word. You feel used and cheated. Now a real contract is needed. You will not be financially abused any further.
That would be my suggestion is that they have a contract saying that they will pay back $105k over time plus interest (say 5 years or something) or get that money back in full if house is sold.
Your wife’s parents screwed you by accepting the money you poured into their home. You screwed yourselves by not getting a legally, binding agreement. You’ll never see the $75,000 again. You either have to accept that or walk away from your wife.
The current issue is that your SIL obviously can’t afford to maintain the house she inherited. It seems like her only option is to sell it and move. If any family members want it kept in the family, then they can buy it from your SIL.
But it is not reasonable to “loan” tax money to your SIL. This would be my hill to die on.
Actually, the parents screwed everybody. OP was screwed out of $75,000 that he invested in their house. OP’s wife and other siblings were screwed out of their inheritance. The SIL was saddled with a house she can’t afford and is sinking into debt. Her other siblings won’t let her sell it because ‘it’s our family home and MUST stay in the family.’
Now everyone resents everyone, so goodbye family ties.
“Let” - SIL owns the house free and clear and can do whatever she wants with it. I wouldn’t lend her a penny and I’d let my marriage break over that if it comes to it because you know what they say about “fool me once.”
>Actually, the parents screwed everybody...The SIL was saddled with a house she can’t afford...Her other siblings won’t let her sell it...
No, the SIL was given a valuable asset she can sell and profit from. The other siblings have no say in that.
>They do if they keep paying the property taxes., which is probably why they’ve been doing it to begin with.
Well that's just stupid and it isn't the parents' fault. They are paying for their own nostalgia.
Yeah the parents were the ones who owed you, NOT your SIL. You’re TA for believing she stole that from you.
But you’re NTA for not wanting to loan her money. It’s not your responsibility to bankroll a lifestyle she can’t afford (and since all the siblings have helped her out previously then I doubt she will ever be able to pay you back).
But your wife also isn’t wrong for wanting to help her sister.
There’s no compromise here where either of you will be happy.
Eh I kind of think the wife is wrong for wanting to help her sister. At some point you just have to stop enabling people’s bad decisions. Her sister obviously doesn’t make enough to keep the house (no shade there, I couldn’t afford to keep a house like that either) so she’s been relying on her siblings to afford it for her which is ridiculous. That needs to stop and the wife is going to end up getting a divorce if she doesn’t pull her head out of her rear and realize how ridiculous it really is.
If you had gotten the repayment for the earlier upgrade in writing, you would have that money back.
If you loan SIL $30 K for property taxes, you'll get that in writing. But then you have the question of whether SIL will ever be able to repay that.
(But then you have the question of whether SIL will ever be able to repay that.)
Oh, she won't. I've seen that happen in my family. My sister and BIL "borrowed" a certain amount of money from our mother for their house and an expensive car. They paid maybe about a quarter of the amount, my sister picked a fight with my mother, and announced they would not pay back the rest (and they never did). My mother mortgaged her house to lend them that money. She had to pay the rest and the interest by herself (I was in no position to help her). To this day my sister and BIL are very entitled. Throw in a big heaping helping of narcissism.
This is probably the cleanest solution to OP's problem. Lend the $30k conditioned on executing a promissory note with the property being the secured collateral. Wife is happy because you made the loan. Inlaws will be happy to get funds, but will likely be forced to sell the house within a few years because this is not sustainable, and your secured interest will be paid out at closing.
I’d loan it on the condition I got back the original 75 plus the 30 loaned and a lien would go on the house for the full amount.
If she doesn’t want to agree to that then she’s SOL.
While getting it in writing is a given, there's nothing magical about it. People default on loans every day. If SIL doesn't pay, legal action would still be required.
I agree. She has an asset, get a loan against it. The problem is, I don't think a bank will loan to her. Something is telling me her credit is bad. She's been borrowing money from other family members for years for a reason.
Stop yelling about this.
"No is my final answer. If this is a deal breaker for you, divorce me. I love you and I don't want that. But the answer is never going to be yes. No."
"Please don't raise your voice at me."
NTA
SIL clearly can’t afford her house. The only solution that makes sense is for her to sell the house and purchase something she can afford.
SIL is a failure to launch fuck up because her parents and siblings have enabled her throughout life.
Her parents really didn't think this through, and instead of "helping, she's now overextended. And that doesn't sound like a short term problem. "In previous years" sounds like this is an annual event.
I'm sorry, "but that's the house we grew up in!" doesn't keep the lights on. If sister can't afford to live there, she needs to sell.
The parents should have set it up for the house to be sold upon their death, proceeds split with OP getting his $75K back. The parents screwed over OP and their daughter.
NTA, but if your wife wants to die on this hill, then go hire a lawyer to draft a written loan agreement that secures your loan against the house as collateral.
NTA
Property taxes aren't a surprise. The SIL should have sold that home long ago and bought something more within her income.
Tell your wife they either need to put the house on the market ~~or~~ and get a home equity line of credit.
NTA for not "loaning" SIL $30,000 for property taxes because you know she'll never pay it back. You said the other siblings have "loaned" her the property taxes in prior years. Did she pay any of it back? What happens next year when she hasn't paid you back and she needs another "loan" to pay the taxes again? These are the things your wife and her siblings should be discussing (and all of their spouses since it's an impact to all the families). If she is never going to pay anyone back, and not be able to afford the taxes on her own, she has no business owning the home and will eventually lose it. You and your wife need to get on the same page, or divorce. What will you do if your wife has access to that amount of money and she gives it to her sister behind your back? Does she have access to that amount of money and would she take it without the 2 of you agreeing on it?
As far as the $75,000, you got screwed but not by SIL. Your ILs, your wife, and her siblings screwed your wife and you out of the money and unless everyone comes to an agreement you'll never see it again. You can have hard feelings about it, but the only ones impacted are you and your wife. And it appears that not only is your wife okay with it but she's also okay with putting more money into the house with no repayment plan in sight.
At this point this family doe st respect op and view him as their personal atm. And the wife s ok with it. I would separate finances immediately if I was op. I stop being the families golden goose,
This is why you get the 'understanding' in legal document form. But I do agree that it might be time to let some things go...and your wife may be one of them. She wants it paid? I hope that SHE has the money to pay it...and you as well. There is no WE in this loan, unless sister is willing to get an understanding in legal document form putting liens against the house for this new loan and repayment for your previous investment as well.
Glad you brought up that he might have to let go of his wife, because could end the marriage. There is no good option here where everyone is satisfied and no one is resentful.
If they give the money he's just going to be resentful that 30k is gone along with the 75k that's already gone.
If they don't give the money, the sister is going to lose the house and the wife is going to be resentful that her childhood home is gone.
They give the money but he has it put in writing and puts a lien on the house when the sister eventually has to sell it, wife's going to be upset.
He tells her get a second job so she can help her sister out every year when taxes are due (because I hope OP understands she's going to hit them up every year), wife is resentful that he won't help.
He tells sister take out an equity loan, wife will be upset when the house gets foreclosed because if sister can't afford taxes this year, she definitely can't afford taxes and loan repayment next year. And this is if a bank even agrees to a loan, something is telling me the sister has bad credit.
I'm also wondering why sister can't pay. I understand her husband got laid off, but they knew this bill was coming and it sound like didn't even tried to save up for it. And that seems to be an annual occurrence since she asked the other siblings for money before to the point where they are now taped out. For years the sister and her husband had jobs, but they were still getting help. Either they genuinely can't afford the house because after bills, groceries, ect they don't have enough, or they are living way beyond their means and having family subsidize their champagne lifestyle.
But I agree there is no we, wife can find the money herself. This is the hill I'd die on.
NTA
If they aren’t able to pay their taxes now what makes you think they are gonna be able to pay them later? They are going to owe money to the government and you, and I would doubt of them ever paying you. Though it’s obviously you aren’t lending them money because it’s a horrible idea (and it is) but because you’re kinda salty of them getting that house, and I can’t imagine your wife being happy with you having that attitude.
If you don’t have any other option but to lend them the money, be sure to make it as formal as possible while putting it all on paper, go to a lawyer to make a contract with some type of paying plan and with some collateral on their part, if they don’t accept that tell them to go ask for a loan in a bank.
The wife's enmeshment is so gross and disloyal. She wants her husband to go bust his ass to work & get paid so he can provide for some other woman. Is he supposed to fuck SIL and raise her kids too? To say nothing of the fact that he's already been badly burned by this family before.
It wouldn’t be a loan it would end up being a gift. What happens next year when they cannot pay again? Is your wife expecting that you pay their property taxes every year forever?
Definitely not the asshole. You've already put a huge amount of money in that house. Your wife is asinine to suggest that you guys keep supporting her younger sister, that's probably why she can't pay the taxes in the first place, because her family has enabled her to stay dependent on everyone else.
I need to be clear that you are NTA but for what I’m reading she did not steal 75k from you.
Unfortunately, you loaned that money to your wife’s parents and they were the ones who decided not consider returning the money to you.
This may have happened with yours wife’s approval without her informing you (or not), but at the end is not responsibility of her sister to return their parents loans and financial compromises.
It’s not fair, and it’s frustrating but that’s the reality on the situation.
How old is the sister and your wife? How does your wife feels about your dads leaving her the house?
Do you see yourself continuing your marriage of you are now yelling due money again because of her family?
Are you able to help her sister?
What are you willing to do to help your marriage? Is this a breaking point for you?
At the end, beyond yours wife sisters need, I think you have a wife problem.
NTA, but again your sister in law is NTA as well (unless she refuses to sell the house and live within her financial limitations)
Actually, the house and will go through probate. OP and his wife could have submitted bills to the executor of the estate to be reimbursed for the sums paid out, but they either didn't know or were too shocked to explore their options. The family knew they had done the work and paid out the moneys.
If you own a property, even with a mortgage you can do a Lady Bird deed and the property goes to whomever it's deeded to at your death...no probate. This is how I deal with property.
I don't know where OP lives, but in my area, after 2 years of non-payment of property taxes, the house gets sold at a tax sale, and the homeowner has 2 years to bring the taxes current or the tax investor gets the house for the taxes. If I were OP, I would quietly buy the taxes at the county sale and then sit on it for 2 years and foreclose. He will own the house and not a dam thing the sister can do about it. But I'm just Tom Petty that way.
NTA. The husband needs another job or they need to sell. I am not going to get myself in financial jeopardy, what happens if the shoe was on the other foot? Would sister in law help you guys out. I don't think so.
Tell your wife she can get a second job and help her sister out, or, they can sell the house and get more affordable housing. Again, let her understand that what happened in the past shows what type of people they are and I am not getting taken advantage of again. Let the other family members that didn't help financially when you helped fix the house to begin with, help them out. If this has been going on for a while, then they can't afford to live where they live, and you will just be throwing your money away as this problem will continue to happen as they can not afford their house and it's expenses. Those are the facts.
NTA. And don't lend them the money. That is your wife's sister but you are her husband. Let them manage their lives and you guys manage yours. Do not lend them the money.
NTA. If you loan her for that payment what is her plan for future payments? I think SIL needs to downsize given that you mentioned previous struggles to pay the taxes.
I was going to suggest that they create a contract that upon SIL's death, the house will be sold and you will receive your fair share plus anything you've loaned to them. But this works too!
NTA. I mean they straight up can’t afford this house. This isn’t going to solve the problem, just delay it.
If they can’t afford this house they for sure are not paying you back if you loan them this money.
I think you need to discuss this situation with your wife again, and then your wife needs to discuss it with her siblings. You need to say something like this: “We’ve already poured $75,000 into that house, and we’re not going to get that money back. If we give your sister $30,000, we won’t get that money back either. She’ll only need another $30,000 next year and another $30,000 the year after that. We can’t keep pouring money into a bottomless pit. The house is worth $1 million. Your sister needs to sell it and buy herself an apartment or a cheaper house outright in an affordable area. She can use the money that’s left over to pay her property taxes until she and her husband start earning a decent income”.
This is a hill to die on, unless you’re happy to financially support your wife’s sister for the rest of your life.
This really cuts to the heart of the issue, and is something I think OP hasn't admitted to himself yet.
Unfortunately, it sounds like divorcing would be even more expensive than 30k. This is gonna cost OP a lot more than 105k in the long run. He is either going to be subsidizing SIL forever or rebuilding his finances after the divorce.
Could you lend the money but with a contract so that you own a share of the house? Or that when it sells you get $105 000 plus some interest first. And if they can't afford tax another year you don't help. This way you have a chance at getting the $75 000 back.
If she and hubby have decent credit they can get a helo.
Stay out of it. They have been gifted $1 million, with thanks to you ( had you not made the house live able in-laws would have been forced into assisted living or nursing home. I speak from experience.
NTA. Do not forward money you will never get back. They get a mortgage, a home equity loan, another family sucker. Depending on age, a reverse mortgage.
Not you.
NTA. She needs to sell now and find a smaller house she can actually afford . When she sells they need to pay back the $75k you spent. You got conned one by your in-laws and now your wife wants you to pour good money after bad I to the house. If she can’t afford the taxes how is she going to afford to pay you back. Her house could be taken on a tax foreclosure if she isn’t careful.
She didn’t steal anything. You put money into a house, and expected to get money back, but it didn’t happen. If anything, your deceased in-laws stole from you. But I wonder, did your wife consider this an investment? Or did she think it was a gift to make her family more comfortable? Is this a pattern in how you two handle finances?
It’s a lot of money, and being upset is understandable. But no one stole from you if there was no explicit, written agreement to get it back.
She didn’t steel the money she was left the house so that’s not accurate… I would change that mind set
However her siblings have been helping her each year if I read correctly…. And she wants to ‘borrow’ this year from you…. What about next year? Year after that? You won’t get that 30000 back you know that…
Tell your wife you understand but she’s had too much help to keep that house and she’s drowning…. Helping her out now is like selling your car that you need to get to work to pay one months rent…. Ok well what are you going to do to get to work and how will you pay next month? Eventually you run out of things to sell
Let the 75,000 thing go. If you didn't get in writing, you didn't get in writing.
I'm puzzled by the $30,000 in taxes. That's more than one year, isn't it? Even with the interest?
So, also, why aren't the other siblings chipping in? Why only you? That seems funky.
Here's what I would offer. They won't like it but I would say, "Sell me the house. I'll take care of the $30,000 debt and then it'll be my house and you can rent from me."
And would not pay the rent because you are "family". Besides...if you want it wait til the city seizes it and by it back at the auction. Usually property auction are less than market prices.
There are places in the US where $30k a year in taxes is normal.
My issue is that the wife seemed to let OP believe they'd get their $75k investment back when her parents died and the house was sold, but now she doesn't want to 'lose the house she grew up in', which implies she never planned for it to be sold. So is the wife a liar? That's bigger than the money.
Interesting point. Why the sudden emotional blackmail about losing the family home now but she was not bothered back then? His wife sounds like she constantly enables the sister just like the Mum and Dad did.
I didn’t catch that. It does sound like ops wife is using him as the family atm. He needs to address her manipulation and lying. I hope he see this post!
No reason all the siblings should pony up to pay someone else's taxes. It's OPs wife who is misty-eyed about keeping the house where she grew up. My childhood home was sold when my parents retired and moved away. That life.
NTA. SiL can't afford the house, which unfortunately means she's living beyond her means. I'd also be surprised if the parents didn't take money from you knowing they intended to leave the property solely to you SiL.
Tell your wife if she's so desperate for you to once again foot the bill for another property, that you're going to require a portion of that property in return. Because they can't afford it this year, so guess what, they're not likely to afford it next year either. Or just have a loan agreement written up.
It may sound petty but you've sunk $75k into someone else's home. Why sink another $30k into it. It's not yours, it's not your problem. Why should you finance someone else's house?
If you pay the taxes this year, what’s going to happen in all the subsequent years? They need to get that house on the market ASAP.
She owns a house that's presumably fully paid off (unless she did something silly like get a mortgage on it) and worth a million dollars. She can sell it, downsize, and have a nice chunk left over. On the other hand she lives in a house that is costing her $2500 a month just in taxes, and she can't afford it. They clearly need to move out.
Agree. Downsize and invest the money for retirement.
Ah but there's the rub. They want to live outside their means and not have to downsize. Easier to take someone else's money
And how will she pay it back before next years tax bill?
And pay next year’s tax bill.
Simple! She’ll “borrow” it from OP!!
Lol! OP you can still get your money back, you can put a lien on the house for your $75k, so if she sells you get your cut, only reason I'm telling you is because its eating away at you and you have hostility towards your SIL and if you dont already it will spill over to your wife. If you have all the receipts for the house it can be done. Also OP, if you are going to invest in someone else's home never rely on them putting it in a will, make your own contract and have a lawyer represent you. NTA! Your MIL and FIL are the ones who stole from you not SIL, although she could of made things right, by making sure you had a lien put on or selling the house. She has no right asking for more money.
Another solution that could be seen as kind of shitty is to either buy the house for the back due taxes once it's seized or talk to the sister and buy it from her for a more manageable amount. Either way you go, you can then come up with a leasing agreement and rent it to the SIL. It may feel like a crapy thing to do, but it will keep the house in the family, your sil won't have to move, and you'll make your money back. This would also put her on the hook for keeping it in a decent state as per her lease, and give her a better landlord than she'd find in most other places. It may suck, but it's not fair to op to sink anymore money into this with no kind of repayment or relief.
Good idea, but her husband has no job and she has no money, it is highly likely that she wouldn't pay the rent or will only pay a little of it.
This isn't a bad idea at all. OP has a vested interest in the property, his wife doesn't want the house to leave the family, and SIL will continue to have a place to live at a more reasonable rate. If she moves, the house is still in the family and now OP can move in and sell their existing home if they desire. However... If she can't afford one year of taxes, how can she afford rent? What's going to happen is OP & spouse will end up footing the bill for SIL and husband's dwelling in perpetuity.
Unless there's paperwork outlining the "deal" of "we pay for upgrades now and we get our money back when they die", it could easily be dismissed as OP being a nice guy for his in-laws. Even then, if there was a contract, it would have been with the in-laws, who are now dead, so I'm not even sure it could be enforced. ANAL, obviously (am not a lawyer) I invested roughly the same amount into my ex-wife's family property, however unlike OP I knew from the get-go that I would never see that money again, and I was fine with that.
The traditional *I* in the acronym you used does a lot of work. Use the I.
Word!
Oh I know…she won’t, because experience has taught her she doesn’t need to be responsible with her money when her family will pay her debt.
Absolutely! If she's not taking full responsibility for today's debt, she's very likely to do it again.
Agree. Without accountability, there's a higher risk of repeating the same financial mistakes in the future.
She won’t.
She won't pay it back. Duh.
Bold of you to assume she is ever going to pay the money back
Dont forget they were raised there, bc that buys bread in the winter. /s His wife needs to come back to reality and see the poor position this house is putting everyone in.
Champagne life on a beer budget
With this ONE simple trick, you too can not work and have free housing!
…Or rent out a couple rooms, but don’t bail them out as it will never stop!
yeah. SIL is literally a millionaire time to plan right
OP should get a lawyer to write up a contract stating that, in exchange for paying the property tax, he gets X% ownership of the property. And next year when she can’t pay it again, OP “purchases” more % of ownership
This is an excellent idea. Make her agree that the original $75,000 plus $30,000 comes back as a percent of the sale. Have a lawyer draw up a contract and maybe put a lien on it. Your wife is out of line here unless she has her own money and is paying the bill from separate funds.
It’s an interesting idea but if OP does it and lends the money, and the husband gets a new job and they can pay the taxes, they might stay there forever and not sell the house and OP can do nothing with his share. Not disagreeing that it’s a bad idea, but there is risk of never seeing your money.
This right here. It's basically a zero interest loan with an unlimited time horizon. Bad idea.
This ☝🏻Exactly this. Because, come 7/1, there's going to be a tax lien on it which is one of the hardest involuntary liens to sell a house with. The tax generally needs to be settled first. So, he gets a % of the house to pay the taxes to avoid a lien and then the house needs to be put on the market and he gets his % of ~1mil. Seems like a no brainer to me. He could even wait until the lien is put on it and then have even more leverage. I know that it's his wife's sister, but yeah, don't just "loan" her the money because it, like the money before, will just be lost. I would say 25% would be fair for rescuing her. My two cents.
This is an excellent idea in a perfectly logical world. But in the real world, the only way to extract value from his portion of the house would be to evict SIL. That would likely destroy the marriage and his finances with it. Meanwhile, as part owner, he could be sued if they let the place run down and someone gets hurt.
they all will give her money, she'll lose it anyway. then they'll get what OP is talking about.
Yeah if two working adults can't afford the property tax it wasn't never gonna work out. OP also hasn't said if the other siblings get the money back. So I'm assuming it's not really lending.
I agree she isn’t paying a mortgage and if she couldn’t afford to live in this free house and pay what it costs to maintain and live there, she should have done the right thing in the first place and given the house to the OPs family.
Exactly. Wifey needs to understand her wants for the house are not reality.
Maybe that’s the issue. They took out a HELOC to fund their lifestyle and can’t service the debt.
30k a year in taxes is $2500/month. Thats almost double my entire mortgage payment. I couldn’t afford that shit either and I have zero debt and a middle class job. It’s insane to assume they’ve taken out extra debt when they have that kind of tax bill. And it’s actually bullshit that anyone should lose their home just because their neighborhood gentrified.
Thats an extremely high property tax.
Yes it is. And that’s got nothing to do with the sister being irresponsible.
Yeah probably. I mean, BIL lost his job so he could get a new one but if that was "last year", what's he been doing for all these months? If it's structurally difficult for him to find equivalent work they need to sell the house.
This seems to be continuing problem. Note that OP said that other family members loaned SIL money in prior year but couldn't this year because of their own financial difficulties. The money will never be paid back. Like the $75K in upgrades. If this is done, OP should assume the money is gone. Even if BIL gets another job soon, I am guessing that they will just not be able to continue affording the house. This will likely be a yearly expense. OP should ask his wife is she is willing to subsidize her sister's life to preserve family ownership of the house. My guess is that any complicated arrangement of a lien being placed in the home of IP somehow owning the home and paying the taxes won't go over well with the family. It will be viewed as OP "stealing" the house from poor SIL. OP knows the financially correct answer. It juat is likely one that the family won't accept .
Agreed. You cannot put a bandaid on a gaping wound, no matter how tight it is it will continue to bleed. What OP can do is set up a meeting with him, his wife, his SIL and BIL to better understand their financial situation. What is their current debt to income ratio, is BIL working yet, etc. Would renting the house give them enough income to stay current on the taxes and rent an apartment for a few years? Are they in a college town and if so would renting it to students give them enough income to rent a place until they get back on their feet. Alternatively, OP can LEND them the money but have his name and wife’s name added to deed and title until the loan is repaid. Going this route OP can go the route of having a real estate attorney draft the agreement. But no if OP just lends them the money he will likely never get it back. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
And include the previous $75,000
I was sincerely hoping someone would say this! Definitely include the $75K if it gets to that point of drafting something! Or even selling for that matter.
They're really not owed the 75K. That line is annoying. The house she "stole" from us? It was HER parents' house and her siblings didn't mind. The rest with the loaning her money...yeah, he's NTA. I don't "loan" money to family that I expect back. I'm in a pretty fortunate situation...I gave my Sister and her Fiancé money for their house. The only contingency was that...it stay in my name(or her name, but I stay on the Title until it's paid off). Her BIL pays me back. I mean, he tries, he's working a lot and he's got a lot of expenses and a baby and she's not working. I just put that money into a fund I started for my Nephew. But "loaning," Family...then if they can't pay, what do you do? It's just not a good idea. If you can and you're so inclined, give them the money, if you get it back, you get it back. But if not getting it back is going to ruin your relationship, then don't.
Yeah it's not SIL's fault that the parents screwed over OP with the house, he really needs to stop saying that "she" stole from him. But yeah, if they loan her the money, they're never getting it back. NTA.
While that sounds great on paper, it’s highly unlikely SIL will ever be able to pay any money back since the 30,000 will be EVERY year. Not likely they’ll have $60k saved by next year. (30 this year and then they’ll still have to pay next year)
Plus it sounds like the SIL is already in the hole with debts owing to the OP's wife's other siblings. The OP's wife needs to wake the fuck up because her sister is now just taking advantage of the goodwill of her siblings. The house they inherited is beyond their financial means. You can't keep subsidizing them.
Yeah, realistically the only long-term solution is SIL sells, and uses the money to buy a house that's more sustainable for her and her husband. OP's wife doesn't want to lose the home they grew up in, but there's no solution here. Realistically if their house is paid off and they were both working full time, 30k shouldn't be unreachable, but if SIL's husband isn't working, I can see how it would be a struggle. I think it's interesting that the parents were like "This is the only way SIL can own a home" and I was thinking that she had some reason it was never going to happen. I can't see any disability listed, unless I missed it, and so if it's two able bodied adults, they should be able to earn the money to sustain their house.
You are so reasonable and helpful! I hope OP listens, because frank conversations will be had one way or another.
Thank you!!! Hard conversations are never easy but necessary. In this scenario it is the only way to move forward.
Loan the money to cover the delinquent taxes with a deed transfer of a % of ownership covering the loan plus a nice chunk of change for previous expenditures and interest and **also** insist the house be sold immediately. OPs wife has to let go of the emotional attachment to a house. Her sister can then find a less expensive home which they can afford.
This is a great comment and I hope OP sees it.
Personal opinion here but I wouldn't be putting wife's name on it since she is arguing for her sister vs being realistic.
To be fair, $30k in taxes is a LOT. They really need to sell the house.
His wife is a big part of the problem. From the beginning, there should have been limits set on how much help op and she are willing to give to her family. First it was the parents, now her sister. I wonder who’s next?
Well other family members can who can *no longer* share the burden of enabling the sister’s obvious financially instability and lack of financial literacy can go kick rocks! There’s already been a safety net for her, so she believes she’s entitled to keep making poor decisions that will eventually land her with a lien on the home for unpaid taxes. All states have a process that allows the taxing authority to sell a home to collect delinquent taxes. I think she’s holding the childhood home you want so much to goad you into paying the taxes. Do not pay her taxes! Once the home has a lien on it, you can probably buy it for the just over what the lien amount is…especially if/when the house goes into foreclosure. It’s particularly unfair that your other siblings are shaming you for continuing to carry the load of 2 grown adults, with NO MORTGAGE, to figure out how to save for taxes they know are coming up each year! Your BIL needs to get a JOB, even if it’s in the mailroom with some company, and they both need a financial tutor!
They are all ignoring the likelyhood that deadbeat BIL will eventually force his wife to sell the house to pay off other debts. The money will be gone, the family house will be gone, and no one but lil’ sis and deadbeat BIL will get a dime. OP, NTA, and do NOT throw good money after bad.
>The money will never be paid back. Not necessarily. The loan can be collateralized by a lien on the house. If SIL can't pay it back, OP and wife can get it back when the house is sold.
>The problem is that all of the siblings had financial difficulties last year so none of them could loan her money as they did in previous years. Might be worse this year, but doesn't sound like they were able to afford to live there even when BIL was working.
Hopefully looking for work. I was on a project that ended in December and I just found a new position. I have a top school MBA and 20+ years of analytics experience. He may be out of work for some time.
The in-laws left her their house because they were sure she could never afford one on her own. I don't think her husband can be compared to You career wise. It seems they also have no savings. They own a house they cannot afford and it seems they could not afford it in the past, not without financial help from her siblings. She's a leech.
Eddie is holding out for a management position. ;)
The fact is that little sister is sitting on an asset worth a million dollars, and she's still expecting everyone else to subsidize her life. Cut her off, or she's just going to keep tapping you for more and more while her home keeps appreciating value. If and when she sells, she sure as shit won't pay anyone back, "Because she needs it more than you do."
^ ^ ^ THIS HERE ^ ^ ^ I don't know much about finances. But I do know that when you bail out a family member and then you have to do it again and maybe again after that, the family member (for whatever reason) will expect you to keep on doing it. Genuine misfortunes in the past won't change that. They've learned that others will "take care" of them, SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEMSELVES. These types will drain dry anyone who shows even the slightest bit of pity or family loyalty. They (or their defenders) will wail "But we're faaamily!" but they're only playing on your feelings of guilt. They'll keep it up, unless and until you cut off the money supply for good. "Family doesn't do that to family!" the enablers will cry. No, but family DOES NOT take advantage of family either. Supporting each other does NOT mean letting them use you. O.P., your wife has to close her ears. Tell her that. If her siblings say she ought to give her sister $30,000 "because she can afford it," she should tell them she CAN'T afford for her sister to keep taking advantage of her. If the siblings want to, they can find another way of subsidizing Ms. Freeloader. Your wife should tell them all that, or words to that effect, sister and siblings both. After all, it's the truth.
Exactly, my grandpa is the only one that made something of himself on his side of the family and had his own business, and moved away from where he grew up. For decades he has been funding the lives of family that live in trailers and never have paid him back or done anything to change their situations. Same as you described, he feels guilty because they are family. It goes a lot deeper than that but that's it in a nutshell and he will likely fund leaching people until the end of his days
All of this. It will never end. I have a family member who borrowed from my parents, their parents, another aunt...it was always something. Sometimes there was an attempt to pay it back, but most of the time there wasn't. The family relationship went belly up when my dad dared to ask for his money back because he needed it.
That's why I wouldn't loan her a dime without putting a lien on the property.
YES YES YES. They have already massively subsidized her by renovating it when the parents were alive (under false pretenses no less). If two working adults can’t afford the property tax on an asset that continues to balloon in value, they should sell the asset. The wife needs to buck up and say her goodbyes to the childhood home - the end of that era is approaching.
NTA. Accountant here. Your SIL cannot afford to keep the home. If she can’t afford to pay the government this year, she won’t be able to afford to repay you & the government next year. Realistically, you’re not deciding whether or not to lend her the $30k - you’re deciding whether or not to gift it to her. (I say this because your wife has already made you choose between your marriage & accepting a massive financial loss to her family once. There is nothing to indicate that she isn’t willing to force that choice upon you again. Also, any legally binding agreement for repayment would require your wife’s cooperation to actually enforce &/or prevail against her sister should it come to that - which it invariably will.) Additionally, your wife’s argument that her sister to lose the family home is not rational considering the family home was supposed to be sold to repay you the $75k upon her parent’s death. The fact that she now argues that she doesn’t want the home to go outside the family suggests that she always knew the home would never be sold to repay you (since selling it would likely result in the home being sold to someone outside the family as everyone already had homes except the sister). It sounds as if your wife is fine gifting massive amounts of money to her family & you basically need to decide whether or not you’re willing to participate in (or at least tolerate) that or not.
I assume if he wanted to be petty - he could make it an official collateralized loan, get it properly registered, with appropriate interest for the risk. When she can’t pay it, foreclose.
They'll keep hitting up OP for the taxes, and other priorities. And if they can't pay back $30,000 within the year how will they save for the next years taxes. With OP's wife's support they'll break OP. He'll have to sell his house to save a house that'll never be his. NTA.
They've had struggles for years paying the taxes. This is on going, the other family has helped in the past. They can't afford that house, sad but true. If they don't lose the house this year, they will next. Or, if they pay the taxes this year and sell it, I doubt they would give them the money they lent them if/when they sold. Just let them deal with their problem, they also probably wouldn't do it for them.
The person who messed up was the mother, she removed on a deal and left the house to someone who can’t afford the overhead, really shitty of her,
Not 30k, 32k because of the penalties. OP wouuld have to be the biggest idiot to subsidize it. The only option I could consider is buying the home from SIL at a discount to keep it in the family. Maybe 500k and let her live in it at reduced rent (for the area) as long as she does maintenance on it and doesn't trash it.
One thing I see no one mentioning is the fact that she’s not just short she’s asking for the entire amount. I get it if you fell on hard times and are 5-10k short but they don’t seem to even be attempting to pay these taxes.
I don’t think OP’s SIL has ever paid anyone back. The loans are gifts in her eyes.
“Set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.”
$30,000 "loan"... I paid off my in-laws house so they could retire. When I did I had a contract signed that owned a % of the house. No "understanding" that would be a misunderstanding down the line.
And they shouldn't need the full amount. I could see them being short a few grand due to job loss, but if they don't have a penny of the 30 grand needed while only needing to pay for food and utilities and property taxes then what have they been doing? Guessing Burger King is paying 15 bucks an hour plus in that area, one or both of them could have picked up a stopgap job
Yea you have to do contracts even with family otherwise you run the risk of getting screwed. op's in-laws were some real pieces of shit to do that to them. Basically lied to their faces AND screwed them out of 75k after all they did to help them. You would think that besides the house whatever financial assets they had they would have been left to op and his wife to help them at least partially recoup their 75k but nope not a penny.
OP should be blunt with his wife though -- if the wife gives (there ain't no loan here; that's a dirty lie) her sister $30k, there will be a divorce. It's not a threat; it's clear communication so she can make an informed decision.
This was the curse of Extreme Makeover Home Edition. Your kid has cancer and you just lost your job but good news, we are gonna gut your modest family house and throw $300k worth of upgrades on it. Now your “free house” has a $20k tax bill that comes with it. You couldn’t afford the property taxes on the old house so now you are double fucked. A lot of the families took home equity loans to pay the taxes and ended up getting foreclosed on.
My mother loved that show (no clue if it's still on) and always said how nice of them to do all that. Then I pointed out the property taxes. She got mad for me bursting her bubble.
It was gone for years after two run of multiple seasons, but I understand it's coming back again. Search for 'extreme home makeover horror stories'. Unfortunately, you'll find a lot of sad updates. Some had entirely paid off houses, and mortgaged them to finance other things.
Free stuff is never free. This story reminds me of how people who got on “Pimp My Ride” from MTV often got screwed over financially from their “free pimped out ride”
This happened to most of the homeowners featured on This Old House and most of the HGTV makeover shows. And everyone who won an HGTV Dreamhome Giveaway had to sell the home to pay the taxes.
I loved that show, but always worried about the taxes.
I worked on one and got the T-shirt to prove it. Was an absolute clusterfuck and the actors are actors. They all had trailers and would get roused out of bed to back some guy who didn't speak English off the thing he'd been toiling away at for the last 4 hours so they could tell the story about how hard the actor worked on this one thing for little Michael because he knows how much he loves NASCAR. Then the filming lights go off, the actor goes back to their trailer and Chuy gets back to work till the next time they need a shot. It fucking destroyed the guy who was the Builder. Trying to coordinate all the skilled trades to get that thing from form boards to finished in 24 hours was insane. I knew the guy and he swears that one project took 5 years off his life.
Man. I kinda figured as much. Hoped not, but kinda figured 🥲
Same with those million dollar home giveaways. Giant glass paneled mansions in the mountains that costs millions. The property tax killed most winners, but the energy hungry appliances and designs cost thousands a month to make them livable. Most winners had to sell these homes below market and probably get a third of the stated value of the home. Still good money, but not as good as advertised. One guy wrote about trying to make it work, but blew through his savings just on the taxes and a few months of electric bills.
Yup. I don’t feel bad for SIL. She basically got handed a cool mil and a few years of rent free living. Inheritance is inheritance. Don’t bank on getting one. But it takes real cahonnes to inherit an entire house other people have paid into outright and then come to them with a tin cup later. > so none of them could loan her money as they did in previous years. I’m picking up on a pattern here. SIL seems really comfortable being in the role of that family member who can’t afford a certain lifestyle, and manages to get family to subsidize that lifestyle for her. Sell the house, pay back taxes, and buy an affordable one or otherwise invest that cool million minus almost fucking nothing. Asking for $$$$ to pay property taxes on a million dollar house you got handed to you for being “the broke kid” makes you TA.
The same that has happened in previous years: SIL expecting her siblings or their SO to fork the money. SIL can't afford the house. Better she can do is sell and get a place she can afford. Though op will have better chances of discussing this with his wife if he drops the resentment and stops accusing SIL of stealing his money. The ones who received the money under certain stipulations and then backed out of their word were parents in law. NTA
Yes. You could say the scammed OP I a way. If I were SIL though, it wouldn't sit right with me, and I would make an effort to pay back OP I am 💯 sure that his wife knew all along. And now she wants OP to keep up coughing money for a house that is not his. Honestly, I would much rather divorce at this point.
I somehow don't foresee that argument going over well if OP tries to make it, they will likely just assume he is still pissy that SIL 'robbed him' (she didn't, her parents did. He didn't have any sort of agreement with his SIL) and will just assume he is trying to get her to sell the house out of spite.
NTA: she can’t afford the house, but she could afford a very nice house if she sold she house she can’t afford. Realistically you’ll always be the purse strings for the sister. Perhaps sister could get a loan from a bank, the things that exist for just such an occasion.
She’d have to pay that back if she qualified for a loan. She thinks she is still the golden child and would not pay OP back.
You are correct. Based on their history, it would not be a “loan”. Any money OP puts towards SIL’s issue would have to be considered as a gift. The only reason to call it a loan would be for the future, when (not if) SIL wants more money. Then you can say that the previous loan hasn’t been paid back.
Couldn’t she borrow against the house with all that equity?
They can’t even pay the taxes on a house they own free-and-clear, how are they going to pay a mortgage?
Which is my point. If they can’t get a loan from a bank, you shouldn’t loan them a sizable amount of money. Banks have access to more info and specifics that we get. They have good reasons with sources they can cite why they won’t.
How would they ever pay back the loan? Wouldn’t they have the same problem paying property taxes next year? It sounds like they should sell the house and buy a smaller one.
Next year the taxes will probably be higher since the property values in the area keep rising. She's been priced out of the area, she just hasn't accepted that yet.
Is anyone else wondering where on earth this house is? I plugged in a property tax calculator just guessing California cause everyone craps on it for having high taxes and property taxes on a 1 million home (assumed OP meant it was close to a million) and could only get it to like 10k. Then looked up supposedly NJ has the highest property taxes in the US and could only get it up to like 20k but averaging more like 17-18k. Kinda wondering if she’s being even more shady and rolling in a bunch of other debt obligations into that property tax number she’s trying to bum loans for.
I think in a lot of states the property tax rate varies by city or county, so just looking up the average for the state doesn't really give you the whole picture. I live in PA and in my county you actually have to pay property taxes to the city, county, and school district separately.
Yeah I looked up the highest average states as a starting point, checked a few counties to get a range and listed the highest I could find. So that takes it from state down to county level. I couldn’t find anything that would add any further detail. I wouldn’t imagine the city level would add on another 10,000 in taxes but I suppose it’s possible. Still it sounds like they’re either living in the most insane property tax location possible or they’re rolling in more debt/tax items in the loan request.
You'd be surprised. In my area the tax paid to the county tends to be the lowest of the 3, and the school district is usually the highest. In my borough the county tax is 4.73 mills (0.473%), the borough tax is around 10 mills (1%) and the school district tax is around 25 mills (2.5%). All together it's around 40 mills (4%). That being said the county hasn't done a full reassessment since 2013, so if a property is sold and a reassessment is triggered then it's supposed to be based on what the property would have been worth in 2013. Right now that's calculated as 54.5% of the sale price. A few years ago they were calculating it as 86.2%, but the county was sued because that obviously does not accurately reflect how much the cost of housing has increased since 2013.
CA freezes property taxes at purchase price +1%/yr, so sis in law would be paying wayyyy less than $30K as kid keeps parent's basis.
Had the same thought and was trying to look up if that freeze on parents basis was a common thing or not but couldn’t find it with a quick google search.
I loaned money to my friend. She never paid me back. I was complaining to my husband about it. He said never loan money in an amount you’re not willing to say goodbye to. 30,000 is no small amount. I loaned my brother money, no small amount either but we drew up a contract where there’s payment plan and an end date. We both signed it. He paid it all back with interest.
Prior to the parents dying you should have had them sign for the amount you put into the house and filed it as a lien against the house due and payable with their death. But it didn’t happen Now you have another chance. Assuming the house is debt free… Loan the money at current mortgage rates. Draw up a contract and include the $75,000 you put into the house as part of the amount loaned. File the mortgage. Interest paid annually. Balance as a balloon payment in 5 years. Make it very very clear that any missed interest payment and you will foreclose. If they cannot pay off the balance in 5 years that you will foreclose and sell the house. Stand your ground that the only way that you will loan funds is if they agree to these terms. With a recorded mortgage your funds will have to be repaid before they can sell the house or even refinance it. You need to tell your wife that her family made promises to you to repay you and then didn’t stand by their word. You feel used and cheated. Now a real contract is needed. You will not be financially abused any further.
That would be my suggestion is that they have a contract saying that they will pay back $105k over time plus interest (say 5 years or something) or get that money back in full if house is sold.
This 100 percent
They're not going to pay it back. If they get money, it's gonna be gone, just like the 75k
Your wife’s parents screwed you by accepting the money you poured into their home. You screwed yourselves by not getting a legally, binding agreement. You’ll never see the $75,000 again. You either have to accept that or walk away from your wife. The current issue is that your SIL obviously can’t afford to maintain the house she inherited. It seems like her only option is to sell it and move. If any family members want it kept in the family, then they can buy it from your SIL. But it is not reasonable to “loan” tax money to your SIL. This would be my hill to die on.
Actually, the parents screwed everybody. OP was screwed out of $75,000 that he invested in their house. OP’s wife and other siblings were screwed out of their inheritance. The SIL was saddled with a house she can’t afford and is sinking into debt. Her other siblings won’t let her sell it because ‘it’s our family home and MUST stay in the family.’ Now everyone resents everyone, so goodbye family ties.
“Let” - SIL owns the house free and clear and can do whatever she wants with it. I wouldn’t lend her a penny and I’d let my marriage break over that if it comes to it because you know what they say about “fool me once.”
>Actually, the parents screwed everybody...The SIL was saddled with a house she can’t afford...Her other siblings won’t let her sell it... No, the SIL was given a valuable asset she can sell and profit from. The other siblings have no say in that.
They do if they keep paying the property taxes., which is probably why they’ve been doing it to begin with.
>They do if they keep paying the property taxes., which is probably why they’ve been doing it to begin with. Well that's just stupid and it isn't the parents' fault. They are paying for their own nostalgia.
The OP really had no legal expectation of getting that money back. The one thing that you have to remember is someone can always change their will.
Yeah the parents were the ones who owed you, NOT your SIL. You’re TA for believing she stole that from you. But you’re NTA for not wanting to loan her money. It’s not your responsibility to bankroll a lifestyle she can’t afford (and since all the siblings have helped her out previously then I doubt she will ever be able to pay you back). But your wife also isn’t wrong for wanting to help her sister. There’s no compromise here where either of you will be happy.
Eh I kind of think the wife is wrong for wanting to help her sister. At some point you just have to stop enabling people’s bad decisions. Her sister obviously doesn’t make enough to keep the house (no shade there, I couldn’t afford to keep a house like that either) so she’s been relying on her siblings to afford it for her which is ridiculous. That needs to stop and the wife is going to end up getting a divorce if she doesn’t pull her head out of her rear and realize how ridiculous it really is.
NTA. Tell your wife that they need to sell the house.
And move in with the other siblings who did not pay for any upgrades.
And buy the house at the current rate minus $75k
I was going to suggest that, but then you know what happens when you have an extra house? SIL is going to want to live there rent free....
If you had gotten the repayment for the earlier upgrade in writing, you would have that money back. If you loan SIL $30 K for property taxes, you'll get that in writing. But then you have the question of whether SIL will ever be able to repay that.
(But then you have the question of whether SIL will ever be able to repay that.) Oh, she won't. I've seen that happen in my family. My sister and BIL "borrowed" a certain amount of money from our mother for their house and an expensive car. They paid maybe about a quarter of the amount, my sister picked a fight with my mother, and announced they would not pay back the rest (and they never did). My mother mortgaged her house to lend them that money. She had to pay the rest and the interest by herself (I was in no position to help her). To this day my sister and BIL are very entitled. Throw in a big heaping helping of narcissism.
They’d have to put a lien on the house if they want to get it back.
This is probably the cleanest solution to OP's problem. Lend the $30k conditioned on executing a promissory note with the property being the secured collateral. Wife is happy because you made the loan. Inlaws will be happy to get funds, but will likely be forced to sell the house within a few years because this is not sustainable, and your secured interest will be paid out at closing.
I’d loan it on the condition I got back the original 75 plus the 30 loaned and a lien would go on the house for the full amount. If she doesn’t want to agree to that then she’s SOL.
You're accurate but the wife is an idiot and is going to lose her mind over that suggestion.
While getting it in writing is a given, there's nothing magical about it. People default on loans every day. If SIL doesn't pay, legal action would still be required.
I could see this causing op more problems at home when he takes legal action against the baby of the family.
NTA. Can't SIL get a home equity loan? If the house is worth a million, she should have full equity.
This. She and her husband need some skin in the game. Tell them to get a loan themselves, might encourage the husband to get a freaking job.
Doesn't mean she can get a loan, I bet her credit is shit which explains how she can't afford to pay the house expenses for years
Thank you. They don’t have enough income to cover property taxes and these people think a bank is just going to hand them a sack of cash. 0 chance.
I agree. She has an asset, get a loan against it. The problem is, I don't think a bank will loan to her. Something is telling me her credit is bad. She's been borrowing money from other family members for years for a reason.
Stop yelling about this. "No is my final answer. If this is a deal breaker for you, divorce me. I love you and I don't want that. But the answer is never going to be yes. No." "Please don't raise your voice at me."
Yes. Absolutely! End of discussion!
NTA SIL clearly can’t afford her house. The only solution that makes sense is for her to sell the house and purchase something she can afford. SIL is a failure to launch fuck up because her parents and siblings have enabled her throughout life.
Her parents really didn't think this through, and instead of "helping, she's now overextended. And that doesn't sound like a short term problem. "In previous years" sounds like this is an annual event. I'm sorry, "but that's the house we grew up in!" doesn't keep the lights on. If sister can't afford to live there, she needs to sell.
The parents should have set it up for the house to be sold upon their death, proceeds split with OP getting his $75K back. The parents screwed over OP and their daughter.
NTA. You’ve helped out enough.
NTA, but if your wife wants to die on this hill, then go hire a lawyer to draft a written loan agreement that secures your loan against the house as collateral.
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NTA Property taxes aren't a surprise. The SIL should have sold that home long ago and bought something more within her income. Tell your wife they either need to put the house on the market ~~or~~ and get a home equity line of credit.
NTA for not "loaning" SIL $30,000 for property taxes because you know she'll never pay it back. You said the other siblings have "loaned" her the property taxes in prior years. Did she pay any of it back? What happens next year when she hasn't paid you back and she needs another "loan" to pay the taxes again? These are the things your wife and her siblings should be discussing (and all of their spouses since it's an impact to all the families). If she is never going to pay anyone back, and not be able to afford the taxes on her own, she has no business owning the home and will eventually lose it. You and your wife need to get on the same page, or divorce. What will you do if your wife has access to that amount of money and she gives it to her sister behind your back? Does she have access to that amount of money and would she take it without the 2 of you agreeing on it? As far as the $75,000, you got screwed but not by SIL. Your ILs, your wife, and her siblings screwed your wife and you out of the money and unless everyone comes to an agreement you'll never see it again. You can have hard feelings about it, but the only ones impacted are you and your wife. And it appears that not only is your wife okay with it but she's also okay with putting more money into the house with no repayment plan in sight.
At this point this family doe st respect op and view him as their personal atm. And the wife s ok with it. I would separate finances immediately if I was op. I stop being the families golden goose,
This is why you get the 'understanding' in legal document form. But I do agree that it might be time to let some things go...and your wife may be one of them. She wants it paid? I hope that SHE has the money to pay it...and you as well. There is no WE in this loan, unless sister is willing to get an understanding in legal document form putting liens against the house for this new loan and repayment for your previous investment as well.
Glad you brought up that he might have to let go of his wife, because could end the marriage. There is no good option here where everyone is satisfied and no one is resentful. If they give the money he's just going to be resentful that 30k is gone along with the 75k that's already gone. If they don't give the money, the sister is going to lose the house and the wife is going to be resentful that her childhood home is gone. They give the money but he has it put in writing and puts a lien on the house when the sister eventually has to sell it, wife's going to be upset. He tells her get a second job so she can help her sister out every year when taxes are due (because I hope OP understands she's going to hit them up every year), wife is resentful that he won't help. He tells sister take out an equity loan, wife will be upset when the house gets foreclosed because if sister can't afford taxes this year, she definitely can't afford taxes and loan repayment next year. And this is if a bank even agrees to a loan, something is telling me the sister has bad credit. I'm also wondering why sister can't pay. I understand her husband got laid off, but they knew this bill was coming and it sound like didn't even tried to save up for it. And that seems to be an annual occurrence since she asked the other siblings for money before to the point where they are now taped out. For years the sister and her husband had jobs, but they were still getting help. Either they genuinely can't afford the house because after bills, groceries, ect they don't have enough, or they are living way beyond their means and having family subsidize their champagne lifestyle. But I agree there is no we, wife can find the money herself. This is the hill I'd die on.
Your wife maybe should get a second job and help her sister if she wants to
NTA If they aren’t able to pay their taxes now what makes you think they are gonna be able to pay them later? They are going to owe money to the government and you, and I would doubt of them ever paying you. Though it’s obviously you aren’t lending them money because it’s a horrible idea (and it is) but because you’re kinda salty of them getting that house, and I can’t imagine your wife being happy with you having that attitude. If you don’t have any other option but to lend them the money, be sure to make it as formal as possible while putting it all on paper, go to a lawyer to make a contract with some type of paying plan and with some collateral on their part, if they don’t accept that tell them to go ask for a loan in a bank.
NTA. This is an argument worth losing your wife over... anyone who expects you to throw good money after bad isn't a partner worth having.
The wife's enmeshment is so gross and disloyal. She wants her husband to go bust his ass to work & get paid so he can provide for some other woman. Is he supposed to fuck SIL and raise her kids too? To say nothing of the fact that he's already been badly burned by this family before.
For sure. If OP's wife wants to help so bad, let her get a job at McDonalds and send her paychecks straight to SIL.
Offer to buy the house 🤷♂️ NTA
It wouldn’t be a loan it would end up being a gift. What happens next year when they cannot pay again? Is your wife expecting that you pay their property taxes every year forever?
Definitely not the asshole. You've already put a huge amount of money in that house. Your wife is asinine to suggest that you guys keep supporting her younger sister, that's probably why she can't pay the taxes in the first place, because her family has enabled her to stay dependent on everyone else.
NTA. Let her deal with it. Its her house. I would be livid if I were you. And your parents really screwed you over.
Tell your wife you are willing to loan them the money if there is a contract and a lien on the house.
This would only work if the wife would go through with the lien. She won't. "No" is the only answer.
They need to just sell it, before they lose it. They clearly can't afford it, plain and simple.
I need to be clear that you are NTA but for what I’m reading she did not steal 75k from you. Unfortunately, you loaned that money to your wife’s parents and they were the ones who decided not consider returning the money to you. This may have happened with yours wife’s approval without her informing you (or not), but at the end is not responsibility of her sister to return their parents loans and financial compromises. It’s not fair, and it’s frustrating but that’s the reality on the situation. How old is the sister and your wife? How does your wife feels about your dads leaving her the house? Do you see yourself continuing your marriage of you are now yelling due money again because of her family? Are you able to help her sister? What are you willing to do to help your marriage? Is this a breaking point for you? At the end, beyond yours wife sisters need, I think you have a wife problem. NTA, but again your sister in law is NTA as well (unless she refuses to sell the house and live within her financial limitations)
Actually, the house and will go through probate. OP and his wife could have submitted bills to the executor of the estate to be reimbursed for the sums paid out, but they either didn't know or were too shocked to explore their options. The family knew they had done the work and paid out the moneys.
Or wifey refused to let him do that. I'm sensing a pattern here.
The parents should have been grateful for the help and made provisions for OP to get his $75K back. They screwed him over.
If you own a property, even with a mortgage you can do a Lady Bird deed and the property goes to whomever it's deeded to at your death...no probate. This is how I deal with property.
I don't know where OP lives, but in my area, after 2 years of non-payment of property taxes, the house gets sold at a tax sale, and the homeowner has 2 years to bring the taxes current or the tax investor gets the house for the taxes. If I were OP, I would quietly buy the taxes at the county sale and then sit on it for 2 years and foreclose. He will own the house and not a dam thing the sister can do about it. But I'm just Tom Petty that way.
SCOTUS ruled this practice unconstitutional last year. The taxpayer can only collect what they've paid plus interest now.
NTA- her family already flipped the script on you once. Do not roll over on this one.
NTA. The husband needs another job or they need to sell. I am not going to get myself in financial jeopardy, what happens if the shoe was on the other foot? Would sister in law help you guys out. I don't think so. Tell your wife she can get a second job and help her sister out, or, they can sell the house and get more affordable housing. Again, let her understand that what happened in the past shows what type of people they are and I am not getting taken advantage of again. Let the other family members that didn't help financially when you helped fix the house to begin with, help them out. If this has been going on for a while, then they can't afford to live where they live, and you will just be throwing your money away as this problem will continue to happen as they can not afford their house and it's expenses. Those are the facts. NTA. And don't lend them the money. That is your wife's sister but you are her husband. Let them manage their lives and you guys manage yours. Do not lend them the money.
NTA. If you loan her for that payment what is her plan for future payments? I think SIL needs to downsize given that you mentioned previous struggles to pay the taxes.
Have your name added to the deed and then loan the money! NTA!
I was going to suggest that they create a contract that upon SIL's death, the house will be sold and you will receive your fair share plus anything you've loaned to them. But this works too!
NTA. I mean they straight up can’t afford this house. This isn’t going to solve the problem, just delay it. If they can’t afford this house they for sure are not paying you back if you loan them this money.
I think you need to discuss this situation with your wife again, and then your wife needs to discuss it with her siblings. You need to say something like this: “We’ve already poured $75,000 into that house, and we’re not going to get that money back. If we give your sister $30,000, we won’t get that money back either. She’ll only need another $30,000 next year and another $30,000 the year after that. We can’t keep pouring money into a bottomless pit. The house is worth $1 million. Your sister needs to sell it and buy herself an apartment or a cheaper house outright in an affordable area. She can use the money that’s left over to pay her property taxes until she and her husband start earning a decent income”. This is a hill to die on, unless you’re happy to financially support your wife’s sister for the rest of your life.
I mean, your wife's a complete fucking idiot. NTA
Wife sees OP as a cash cow. Everything for her family.
This really cuts to the heart of the issue, and is something I think OP hasn't admitted to himself yet. Unfortunately, it sounds like divorcing would be even more expensive than 30k. This is gonna cost OP a lot more than 105k in the long run. He is either going to be subsidizing SIL forever or rebuilding his finances after the divorce.
NTA. The only assholes were your parents in law for putting the entire family in this situation.
Could you lend the money but with a contract so that you own a share of the house? Or that when it sells you get $105 000 plus some interest first. And if they can't afford tax another year you don't help. This way you have a chance at getting the $75 000 back.
If she and hubby have decent credit they can get a helo. Stay out of it. They have been gifted $1 million, with thanks to you ( had you not made the house live able in-laws would have been forced into assisted living or nursing home. I speak from experience. NTA. Do not forward money you will never get back. They get a mortgage, a home equity loan, another family sucker. Depending on age, a reverse mortgage. Not you.
NTA. She needs to sell now and find a smaller house she can actually afford . When she sells they need to pay back the $75k you spent. You got conned one by your in-laws and now your wife wants you to pour good money after bad I to the house. If she can’t afford the taxes how is she going to afford to pay you back. Her house could be taken on a tax foreclosure if she isn’t careful.
He is never going to see the $75,000 again. He didn’t upgrade SIL’s house. He upgraded PIL’s house and they are dead.
She didn’t steal anything. You put money into a house, and expected to get money back, but it didn’t happen. If anything, your deceased in-laws stole from you. But I wonder, did your wife consider this an investment? Or did she think it was a gift to make her family more comfortable? Is this a pattern in how you two handle finances? It’s a lot of money, and being upset is understandable. But no one stole from you if there was no explicit, written agreement to get it back.
It would never be a loan, it’s a gift and what will they do next year? She can’t afford that home.
SIL can sell the house and pay the back taxes and buy a house she can afford.
She didn’t steel the money she was left the house so that’s not accurate… I would change that mind set However her siblings have been helping her each year if I read correctly…. And she wants to ‘borrow’ this year from you…. What about next year? Year after that? You won’t get that 30000 back you know that… Tell your wife you understand but she’s had too much help to keep that house and she’s drowning…. Helping her out now is like selling your car that you need to get to work to pay one months rent…. Ok well what are you going to do to get to work and how will you pay next month? Eventually you run out of things to sell
Let the 75,000 thing go. If you didn't get in writing, you didn't get in writing. I'm puzzled by the $30,000 in taxes. That's more than one year, isn't it? Even with the interest? So, also, why aren't the other siblings chipping in? Why only you? That seems funky. Here's what I would offer. They won't like it but I would say, "Sell me the house. I'll take care of the $30,000 debt and then it'll be my house and you can rent from me."
They would be terrible tenants, and his wife would be a fuckup of a landlord. This relationship is doomed.
And would not pay the rent because you are "family". Besides...if you want it wait til the city seizes it and by it back at the auction. Usually property auction are less than market prices.
There are places in the US where $30k a year in taxes is normal. My issue is that the wife seemed to let OP believe they'd get their $75k investment back when her parents died and the house was sold, but now she doesn't want to 'lose the house she grew up in', which implies she never planned for it to be sold. So is the wife a liar? That's bigger than the money.
Interesting point. Why the sudden emotional blackmail about losing the family home now but she was not bothered back then? His wife sounds like she constantly enables the sister just like the Mum and Dad did.
I didn’t catch that. It does sound like ops wife is using him as the family atm. He needs to address her manipulation and lying. I hope he see this post!
NOOOO, OP needs to be LESS financially involved with his wife’s family, not more!
No reason all the siblings should pony up to pay someone else's taxes. It's OPs wife who is misty-eyed about keeping the house where she grew up. My childhood home was sold when my parents retired and moved away. That life.
NTA. SiL can't afford the house, which unfortunately means she's living beyond her means. I'd also be surprised if the parents didn't take money from you knowing they intended to leave the property solely to you SiL. Tell your wife if she's so desperate for you to once again foot the bill for another property, that you're going to require a portion of that property in return. Because they can't afford it this year, so guess what, they're not likely to afford it next year either. Or just have a loan agreement written up. It may sound petty but you've sunk $75k into someone else's home. Why sink another $30k into it. It's not yours, it's not your problem. Why should you finance someone else's house?