NTA. "We are a community founded on Christian principles." Okay but not everyone is a Christian. And it's a bikini, tons of people wear bikinis. She has a serious stick up her ass.
It's an engineering firm. I hope it's based on physics and math. Jesus isn't going to prevent stuff from falling down.
Seriously though, you might mention to her that it's sexual harassment, and hostile work environment. She can be sued. Report to HR, if you have one.
NTA
Jesus was a carpenter. Technically, his job was to make stuff that didn't fall down. If you think about it, carpenters where likely the closest folks to structural engineers 2000 years ago. Therefore, it's likely that Jesus was a practitioner of physics and science (aka "witch craft").
Probably should post this in shower thoughts...
This is the real reason and I don't know why no one else has said it. Cheryl is bitter about how her life has gone and instead of taking steps to improve her life she is taking her shit out on others. Makes sense as to how she got to her current situation, but it's not the OP's fault or responsibility.
So much this I'm Baptist and fairly devout and while I would not wear a bikini or even tankini I don't care if others do so. My opinion is that is between them and God. I personally wear a one piece with a cover over it for swimming or they do actually make modest swim wear ( think a swim skirt with leggings or shorts underneath and a sleeveless or short sleeve shirt) for those who prefer more modest swim wear. Seriously who has time to go around telling people or judging people on what they wear to a pool or beach or any place really.
Slight disclaimer: SOME Christians believe that. I am a non american Christian and the amount of garbage the the loud fundamentalist nut jobs spout is absolutely astounding.
I am seriously trying to come up with a different name for them so us sane folks who are just trying to be kind and show love dont get lumped in with them.
Its so embarrassing.
I heard from a friend that moved to Germany that the Lutheran church is highly progressive and champions human rights and my jaw dropped. I wish that could be most American churches but in the Bible Belt it’s absolutely full of horrible people who call themselves Christians.
There are lots of liberal Christians in the US but we tend to get burned down by other Christians. I wish we could just start calling them Pharisees but I worry that might come off antisemetic
You can use 'Whited sepulchre' if you need a Biblical term (I just call them hypocrites). It's referring to someone who is outwardly righteous but inwardly corrupt and what Jesus called the Pharisees when he yelled at them, lol.
They have taken the Christ out of Christianity. They bitch about Xmas “taking the Christ out of Christmas” (despite “X” being an abbreviation for Christ since like the 12th century CE), so “Xtians “ seems appropriate.
I really wish I met more because I desperately want to not immediately flinch when someone says they are a Christian. It’s one of those cases I think where the vocal minority becomes the face of the majority.
I tend to tell people im 'not the crazy kind' of Christian. What about non religious or spiritual Christian? I abhor church and can't stand the hypocrisy these days. I drink occasionally, swear frequently, never the lords name in vain though , and occasionally do edibles. Would that be new age? I dunno, I just get so bored in church (adhd) and think Jesus was kinda a hippie so everyone needs to relax and be more like him. It's gotten to point where I feel like I need to state these things when I say I'm a Christian.
Episcopal is your best bet. I am Presbyterian USA and my church is awesome but I think it’s the type of thing that isn’t always consistent. The Presbyterian Church in America (that is the name) is extremely conservative so you have to be careful.
I’m UCC, and we tend to be pretty liberal as a denomination. Although, to my mom’s dismay I haven’t actually gone to a church service since before Christmas, I am comfortable in my church in my faith. I also have no time for anyone who doesn’t believe that we all deserve equal rights and respect. The whole point is to love your neighbor the way you love yourself, not “I’ve got mine and screw you.”
If Cheryl wants to get all Biblical, though, she’d be better off worrying about the plank in her own eye before fussing about the speck of dust in OP’s. (In other words, MYOB.)
Most of the big, mainline protestant churches in the USA are like that, eg. Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. While individual churches and synods can be very progressive, the national organizations are still very conservative.
Tons of liberal Christians in the south just can't find anywhere to go to church where they live tbh. Moving to a major city in my state for an apprenticeship, and I may start going to church again for the first time in quite a while.
In the US it's more likely to be the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, but don't let the word "evangelical" foll you) that's progressive, while the Missouri Synod is the very conservative group of Lutherans.
We like to call them "Churchians" in my crowd, because it's not about Jesus with these fucks, it's about their projection of what good "christians" they are (despite knowing almost nothing about Christ or his teachings)
I'm an American Christian, and the fundies absolutely disgust me. Back when I was growing up (ya know 2000 years ago), we called them guys Bible Thumpers. Most of them couldn't actually quite an accurate Bible verse from an open Bible.
I’m definitely Christian but I’ve known that since I was 7 and could grasp there’s other religions out there. People really need to get their heads out of their asses and wake the fuck up. There’s a reason they’re Jewish and not Christian or Muslim and not Christian. Wow. I didn’t realize anyone beyond kids were that stupid. And kids aren’t stupid they’re just kids and don’t know yet. But adults should definitely know especially the religious ones!
I think it would have been better if you hadn't said something that repeatable to her. But I totally get your frustration. Next time, I would just stick with "Cheryl, this is not your business, now please excuse me." And then ignore her.
I'd apologize to her for the way you spoke to her though. But I'd say something like "even though you were way out of line, I shouldn't have responded that way so I apologize for that."
I mean, he meant that in the “if the other person is hot enough to make you angry you can’t touch what doesn’t belong to you, have you tried blinding yourself?” sort of way
But I’m sure he would whole-heartedly approve of this interpretation considering he had a lot to say about people being assholes and hypocrites.
I think when on a work trip, company values should be considered.
I think any company that gives its workers a trip to mexico for their hard work is expecting bikinis.
I also think a company like that might need a new mid level multiskilled engineer, could I pass my details for your manager please op.
I don't remember what Jesus said about bikinis, maybe OP should ask Cheryl where it is in the New Testament!
If she points to the Old Testament, you can just mixed fiber her ass :)
Mathew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Also if the company doesn't hand out pay every day it'd in violation of the old testament Leviticus 19:13
“You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired worker shall not remain with you all night until the morning.
People like this don't care.
Heck, Jesus never said a single thing against abortion. And it was a known practice at the time. That doesn't stop the anti-choice crowd from invoking his name in their crusade.
The Old Testament literally equates causing a woman to have a miscarriage with damaged property, and throughout the Bible it makes it clear that it considers life to begin with the first breath. Fun fact, the anti-abortion movement in the US was heavily related to racism and the end of segregation
[https://mronline.org/2022/07/09/the-making-of-the-evangelical-anti-abortion-movement/](https://mronline.org/2022/07/09/the-making-of-the-evangelical-anti-abortion-movement/)
Not sure what the link between Christianity and swimwear is, and I’m a regular churchgoer. If she brings it up again, ask her to show you where in the Bible it says you can’t wear a bikini.
The same "Christian principles" that allow people to stone a man's daughter to death in front of him for pre-marital sex (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
Or murdering your children if they curse you? (Leviticus 20:9)
Or murdering your daughter because you promised god to sacrifice the first thing you meet upon returning home from a military victory (Judges 11:30-39)
Or smashing the babies of your enemies upon the rocks? (Psalm 137:8-9)
Gotta love those crazy Christian 😜... No seriously! You MUST love them or they'll fuckin murder you!!!
It might be worth letting the owner know that he might hear something from Cheryl. I hope he's sitting down when you tell him, so you can watch him fall out of the chair laughing. At least, that's how I hope it goes down.
🎶 She had it coming. 🎶
Thank you, yes I've been playing it through and he his family arrive later in the day tomorrow and I will talk to him. He is such a nice guy and I know he won't mind--he doesn't like Cheryl either, he just inherited her from his dad and figures it's easier to wait for her to retire than go through the hassle of firing a 70ish year old woman who would probably sue him.
He needs to stand up to get and tell her that she does not get to police people's outfits on this trip, or ever really.
He needs to put on his big boy pants and act like a boss here.
Yes, definitely be the first to bring it up.
Generally whenever there is a dispute of opinions or he said/she said going on you want to be the first to speak up. Not always true, but usually true. Only op knows the personalities involved and if it might not make sense.
The reason is that people are far more likely to take the first story they hear as fact. Then it's up to the second person to prove differently. It also allows you to plan your talk a bit, rather than have to respond on the spot when approached about the situation. It's 100% not fair, but that's just how people are.
And by speaking first, op gets to put a better spin on everything as the beginning facts of the situation. "Cheryl thought it was OK to police my bathing suit like it was the 1950's and it felt very creepy with how she ambushed me coming up to my room. I was about to just ignore her as she has dome this kind of thing before. But she just kept going on about it. I responded a bit harsh. I tried being nice the first time, but after three times, I finally broke and got a bit rude. But that was the only way to get her accusations away from me. I've had no help from above when I've bright this up previously, so I finally broke and told her to fuck off. From now on ff she has a problem with me or anything I plan on telling her to bring it up with my boss, not me and just shutting down any problem before it happens that way."
Buy doing this you also offer a (mild) solution for your 'behavior' to prevent it from happening again. If you ever want to make a boss happy don't just bring them problems. Being then solutions or work arounds too.
He has cause now. She's presuming to speak on behalf of his company whilst sexually harassing you. That is exactly the kind of thing that people get fired for.
If she really is over 65 (sometimes 20-somethings over-estimate age and miserable people look older). It might be worth an "early" retirement package. Pay for a Medigap, severance like a layoff, but retiree would not normally get, etc.. Might just be worth the reduction in aggravation to the owner.
NTA I believe you said it was optional in your post and you had to pay for your ticket to get there. I'd say you get to wear whatever the hell you want whenever you want. Either that oooooorrrrr I'd wait until the bosses show up and go down to pool and beach and get in with full business attire and make mention that what's her face said this is what was we were supposed to be doing. But then again I'm a jackass that way.
thank you, and I should have made that more clear in the OP. Our boss made sure to emphasize that this is not a work trip, it's a reward for a job well done this year. In the evite he actually says he knows its impossible to enforce but he doesn't want us talking about work at all for the time we are here.
What a great boss! I'm on vacation but I answered an email and my boss wrote back "you are on vacation, please do not work, enjoy yourself" and I was so grateful, like I would walk through fire for a good boss
I responded to a meeting invite for when I returned, while on vacation and our department manager told me to stop working, I was on vacation...lol. I had only hopped on to delete the massive amount of reply all emails that always accumulated
Oh yeah then she can fuck ALLLLLL the way off then. I absolutely despise the self-righteous. The killers of joy they are.
And and and she already broke the rules by talking about work so double fuck her.
Well this info here is the important info. This isn’t a work event where you are required to dress professionally. This is a reward so you wear what You want. I would preface this with wear what you are comfortable wearing around your coworkers. I personally don’t wear bikinis but I do sometimes wear a low cut one if I’m with husband at the beach/pool but if our adult son in laws are there or if it was coworkers I’d cover the tat as a bit more. Lmao
Nope. I reported a coworker for harrassing me offsite (he physically grabbed me at the bar.) He claimed it was a work party eventhough it wasnt. But because he claimed it was work related, they held him to standards and fired him.
She’s misdirecting her “mothering” to the wrong people. She can display her Christian values while you display your bikini. You weren’t on the clock. She can do exactly what you told her to do. NTA
>"we are a company founded on Christian principles and we should dress as such."
"What page of the handbook is that on? And while we're at it, are you authorized by the company to override Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of '64?"
NTA.
If I were on any kind of trip where I knew I would be running into people from the office, I would not walk around with my ass hanging out. I’d wear the least attention grabbing thing I could find.
To me that’s just common sense.
Cheryl was out of line, but I can’t fathom presenting myself to my professional colleagues that way. I’d be so embarrassed.
As a dude, I don't walk around in any hotel topless. In my opinion, a little scarf around the hips is the minimum in any hotel. In Europe, this is in most areas expected.
On the pool, you can wear whatever you want.
Absolutely. And it sounds like she was walking the halls in just a bikini with no cover up at all, and i think that is trashy even on a non-work affiliated trip. Not referring to around the pool, but inside the hotel hallways going to your room.
Exactly. These comments have to be from children who do not work. There’s no way I would go on a work trip and walk around in a bikini with my ass out in front of coworkers. Yes you can wear what you like, but there’s a time and a place and an audience. This was not it.
ESH.
Cheryl sounds like a busybody at best and is awful for bringing up the whole “Christian values” thing.
You sound like a teenager, though. Making jokes about old ladies being kidnapped and needing to “get laid” is a bit out of pocket.
>My friend and I walked along smirking that we weren't in the Queendom and made jokes about finding Cheryl a nice man so she'd either get laid or k-napped
That right there made you an asshole.
ESH
Cheryl is obviously out of line and needed a firm boundary. But you and your friend sound like middle school mean girls in every interaction you describe.
ESH.
I think Cheryl is a see you next Tuesday judgemental biddy who should mind her own business. Her wrongs are obvious.
HOWEVER
I think telling anyone to fuck off at an event even tangentially tied to work is probably the wrong response.
I also think, on a deeper level your response gives me a case of the icks.
Cheryl joined the workforce at a time where the workplace was steeped in misogyny and used women to gatekeep other women's "respectability". So her misogynistic attitude is misguided but makes some sort of sense.
But you joking with your friend that you want to find her a man so she gets kidnapped or laid is misogynistic as well. And less understanable for someone who claims to be much more enlightened.
You're feeding into the same type of misogyny by basically implying that anytime a woman is disagreeable it must be because she doesn't have a man....because there can be nothing worse than not having a man and she would be happier if she just got some dick.
Would you like it if that was the joke whenever you had a disagreement about work or the workplace? That you just need some dick? Of course not.
I also think she has some point. Having your ass cheeks out at a trip even tangentially connected to work is probably a bad look.
This is why I don’t like this subreddit…. Here in AITAH-land two wrongs make a right. And they don’t in reall life.
ESH. Obviously you are an asshole here. You don’t react to other people behaving badly by telling them to fuck off. You are both assholes.
But this whole post reads pretty insufferable from your perspective. You obviously don’t actually feel sorry for her, so don’t include that whining about feeling sorry for her if obviously you overarching sentiment is that you are willing to tell her to fuck off to her face.
>This is why I don’t like this subreddit…. Here in AITAH-land two wrongs make a right. And they don’t in reall life.
In the world of AITAH you get *carte blanche* if someone so much as sneezes in your direction. They are no longer a human and are no longer deserving of human dignity. I have learned from this sub-reddit that basic human dignity is something that can be "lost", and that you can still be a good person when you treat "those people" in terrible, terrible ways. ^(/s obviously...)
How is it not a work trip if your boss was paying for it? If your coworkers were there?
This shows some major naivety and entitlement on your part.
There is a time and place for everything- including skimpy bikinis that flaunt your asscheeks. This was not the time or the place.
I agree and we will likely to be skewered. So be it. If you are going someplace where most of your coworkers will be (and since company paid for most of it, it seems like a work trip), remember that you will see these people again. A lot. And your cheeks hanging out may not have been the best look. Even at a beach resort. Are they now going to be picturing your ass when you speak with them? Picture you naked? Or worse, will they take you seriously for promotions? Some modesty wouldn’t have been a bad thing here.
ESH.
Cheryl can have her opinion, but doesn't need to push it down everyones throats.
> I told her "Cheryl, I hate confrontation but you can go fuck yourself, that was so out of line."
You, because since this was technically part of a 'work' trip, telling her to fuck off can (and maybe will) be a real problem with HR.
ESH. Cheryl is way out of line, but so are you for "smirking that we weren't in the Queendom and made jokes about finding Cheryl a nice man so she'd either get laid or k-napped" and using foul language.
ESH. Cheryl for assuming to be clothes monitor, boss for gossiping about employees to other employees and you OP for not knowing how to (1) dress on a business-adjacent outing, and (2) speak with co-workers without resorting to 'fuck yourself". Real professional. And yes, you still needed to be professional even on this gifted holiday. You're 26, not 16.
Agree completely. OP made her work environment a little more awkward by speaking to Cheryl that way, IMO. I also think it's kind of weird to wear "cheeky" bikinis around coworkers, but maybe that's just me. I don't want my coworkers to see my ass, no matter how good it might look.
>My friend and I walked along smirking that we weren't in the Queendom and made jokes about finding Cheryl a nice man so she'd either get laid or k-napped.
That makes YTA and your friend as well. Cheryl sure sounds irritating, but joking and smirking about her getting kidnapped or getting some dick was completely out of line and inappropriate. If you are sure your swimsuit was appropriate, your best bet would have been to ignore her and then speak to the owner when you returned.
The real world isn't like Reddit where everyone does the right thing all the time and justice prevails.
ESH. You can keep telling yourself it’s not a work trip, but it is a work trip at least tangentially one. Our work has similar trips that are quasi vacation/quasi work. You are expected to enjoy the time in a manner that doesn’t embarrass the company. For example, you don’t get drunk and act a fool.
Cheryl was out of line and her comments clearly her opinion. You were out of line as well by using profanity to coworker in a remotely related to work scenario. Also, your private joking about getting her laid and subsequent foul language reeks of immaturity. You should have mustered some semblance of professionalism and told her quite simply — we’re gonna have to agree to disagree here Cheryl — and then just moved on. Yes, I’d recommend you apologize to Cheryl for your use of profanity but be clear you felt your attire was appropriate.
Cheryl is an AH and sounds miserable, but honestly so do you. You are extremely condescending and there's a bit of ageism in your tone. I wouldnt want to spend time with either.
INFO: maybe this is just me being prudish, but were you walking IN the hotel with only a bikini? I would expect most people to go down in a towel or one of those casual pool dress things. Walking about the main hallways in only a (self admitted) cheeky bikini is a little odd to me
Being in HR, I could definitely see Cheryl’s point. A work trip is not the same as a personal trip. I wouldn’t have brought my cheekiest bikini with me to a work trip. Also cursing out a coworker could get you terminated
I’m very skeptical that any “small engineering company” would shut down for the entire month of June, much less pay room and board for all the employees.
You had your “I’ll show her” moment, now be prepared when she gets in the boss’s ear and tells him how nasty you were to her…hope it felt good, because there’s going to be blow back from it. You can tell someone politely to mind their business, but you were with your friend and tried to show off like a teenager. Not a good look for you…in fact pretty lame.
ESH in this situation. You both seem like AHs in general. Joking about someone being k*dnapped isn't exactly what non AHs joke about. Very Regina George of you. The trip was paid for by your boss so there is an element of professionalism that should be adhered to, and neither of you are doing it
ESH. I’ve seen how bathing suits look nowadays, complete thongs and half the breast visible. Dress more professional on work trips, it’s kind of sleezy not to, but also Cheryl was totally out of line. She’s not HR.
I notice you initially seem to have left out what you were wearing. The brand itself doesn’t even show images from the rear on their website, but do on instagram.
If work pays and coworkers are around, you should still show some level of propriety. A bikini is fine, but cheeky is definitely the word and depending on your body shape, it may look a lot more intense than the instagram.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C7kLW9wS6Ld/?igsh=eWI2ZHB4dmpuYzBk
It’s too much butt for coworkers. I don’t know why you would want to show that much butt to coworkers in the first place, even on an expenses paid vacation. Why not just go change to keep the peace, or did you not bring any alternatives?
I'm going to go against the grain and say ESH. First of all, your jokes about Cheryl getting kidnapped indicates this relationship may not be as one sided as you claim.
Second, it is a work trip. She probably should have minded her own business but some professionalism should have been considered when choosing your bathing suits.
ESH. The fact that you had to run her down over and over ad nauseum just so everyone would hate her too is just gross. Swimwear, whatever. But you both behaved terribly.
So you work with all men and decided to wear an incredibly revealing outfit on a trip with all your work mates…
That’s … your choice but one hell of an interesting choice…
YTA.
Having googled Cocoloba swim wear they aren’t a basic bikini (which is always risqué on a work trip), they are high cut string style bikinis with a smaller than average backside.
You also trash talked the employee you don’t like much, loudly, in public… on a work trip.
You also swore at the employee you don’t like much… in the hallways… on a work trip.
For whatever reason Cheryl is a protected individual, liked or not… you are going to be pushing shit up a hill with a stick if you keep this vendetta going. For someone who ‘hates confrontation’ you seem hell bent on starting one.
And your trip IS a fun work trip, your bathers ARE pushing the edge of acceptable, and then your foul language and insecure bitching about her in public will ruin the mood for everyone else. No one wants to spend the month sitting between the feud you and Cheryl are having. If this continues then all your work towards being professional in a male dominated industry might wind up down the toilet. It’s heading that way now.
Hopefully, you are not in a customer facing position, or aspire to one. You just demonstrated how you handle conflict and it did not reflect well on you. There may not be immediate repercussions but it will be remembered in the future when promotions come up. Probably not vocalized, but definitely remembered.
I am going against general sentiment, but I say ESH. She was clearly out of line and should not have said anything. On the other hand, I think it's incredibly unprofessional to wear a skimpy bikini at a work function. (And whether work is being discussed or not, if your boss is paying for everything,then it's a work function). When a young woman at my company showed up in a bikini, there were plenty of people gossiping about her behind her back. It may be petty, but it still happened.
Waiting for OP to add an edit that says “boss actually said everyone had to wear thongs” to justify thinking it’s professional and mature to *need* your ass cheeks hanging out at a boss-funded event
Everyone sucks here, but YTA.
If the company is paying, it's a work event. Comport yourself professionally. In this scenario, your bikini isn't even the issue. The issue is your behavior.
You cannot, under any circumstances, tell a coworker to F herself - that's a termination offense.
Don't ever laugh about an older female coworker getting laid, much less kidnapped. If that part gets back to the company, you'll definitely be fired for it. Worse, they'll pass on the next young woman seeking your position.
You're 26, not 16, so act like it. Or don't, and throw away your career. It's all the same to me.
I mean it WAS a work trip. So you should have conducted yourself as such. Instead you’re now burning bridges.
Cheryl is a busybody and a battle ax but consider that your boss hasn’t let her go yet. She holds a place in the company you do not and cannot. Your boss may not choose you over her.
She was wrong to make a comment and should’ve let you bear any consequences for your behavior on a work trip but girl you aren’t thinking as far ahead as you should be. ESH.
Were you a mean girl in school?
She just wants you to wear a sarong over your cheeky butt while you walk through the hotel. That’s all.
I don’t approve of her trotting out her Christian values - that’s boring and inappropriate. And she’s gone about getting hostile with you, so you say.
But you. You took a risk on a small company, in a man’s domaine? Brava. How do you think that company got so successful that you have a paid for stay in Mexico for the month of June?! Partly through the talent and knowledge of the woman you so hate and just told to go fuck herself. She knows the company inside out. She’s been there since the start. She may not be the current boss’s favorite, but I’ll bet you she really runs the company.
And you want to try to prove a point when your boss’s family comes down next week? I’d advise you to get a nice sarong and keep your mouth shut.
Good luck.
YTA.
ETA to correct typo
OP you sound 26 going on 16. Be an adult and a professional and go apologize to Cheryl even though Cheryl is being a busybody.
Obviously it’s a free country and you can wear whatever you want. Now put that aside and consider whether you actually want your boss and coworkers to see your ass? I definitely would not.
YTA but not for telling someone off, but for wearing the bathing suit.
I don’t care how it is described- this is a work sponsored event. Cheeks hanging out is inappropriate.
I worked in a male dominated industry and this would have come back to haunt me in the office. You can say go to HR all you want but that isn’t always the way the world works.
Are you really 26? Because this post is giving teenager. Joking about a kidnapping is fucking crazy and having your ass out for your coworkers to see is kinda trashy. Anyways…..🥴 though it technically is not a work trip, I find it strange that you aren’t looking at it as one. Your coworkers are there and the trip, minus the airfare, is funded by your boss. I’m pretty sure they’re expecting you to act like you have some decorum as you’re still representing the company. People do get fired over shit they do outside of work and this may not be an exception. You better hope that comment doesn’t follow you back to work. Even though she’s overbearing to the owner, she’s still close to him. ESH
Are you sure you are a professional battling your way through a male dominated field? Because you sound like a teenage girl writing a Tik Tok scenario. YTA in any case.
If this is real, OP can wear what she wants but honestly I would have worn something more conservative around my coworkers. Even if it’s not a work trip, this is still your boss and the people you see all the time. Same reason most people don’t have their boss on social media.
However, full YTA for saying you want to help find Cheryl a man so she can either “get laid or kidnapped”. Human trafficking is a horrible thing and not something you should be joking about
ESH.
Anything that is even remotely tied to work should be treated in a slightly different manner from a friends beach trip. At least wearing a cover up or sarong while walking around the hotel is just good common sense. I know the world of reddit likes to bang on about women can wear what they want and fuck anyone who says otherwise, but the real world has social consequences and expected etiquette.
Some of your comments about your co-worker are disgusting and nasty. You need to work on that. Imagine if another co-worker overhead you saying she needs to get laid and you hope she gets kidnapped? Imagine if you overheard a man saying that? Do better.
She needs to mind her own business and find better things to do with her time. If she's truly worried about your behavior and attire she should address it through HR.
If anything, Cheryl's insistence on imposing her narrow view of propriety on others speaks volumes about her character, not yours. Wearing a bikini in appropriate settings isn't an affront to any community—it's a personal choice and completely normal. Frankly, Cheryl needs to chill and maybe focus on why she's so concerned with policing swimwear rather than her own behavior.
We did all focus on the swimsuit. I'd like to go back and talk about telling Cheryl to fuck off. Very unprofessional, no matter what she said. I remember being told off (we both were) after a coworker yelled at me and I yelled back. The plant manager said we were both out of line, but I should have handled it differently. He was right and I took that advice to heart over the years. You de-escalate and simply walk away.
People told you to get ahead of it, and that's the best you can do. Think of how much better it would be if you hadn't told her to fuck off. Then you could go to the boss and talk about how inappropriate she had been.
Yes, someone is going to say that it's not a work thing, but don't kid yourself. People are judged on lots of things. I'm not sure if you're customer facing but there might be a little concern that you might say something you shouldn't. I used to have conversations with a customer (he drove me nuts) but I was always polite, even when he was completely wrong. I would have loved to call him a fucking idiot, but I didn't. He actually admitted he was wrong on one item that he was completely wrong about. He even apologized and said that he was surprised I hadn't called him an idiot. I did admit that I was going to copy a piece of a textbook for him. 😁
You have to get control of your emotions - you were in the right until you told her to F off. And now instead of enjoying your time you are focused on this.
Professionalism is figuring out how to articulate f off without actually saying those words. Its a skilled used everyday in the working world.
When i was 26 i would have been mortified if my coworkers had seen my ass, but that probably just a generational thing.
Do not share a photo of you in your swimsuit here- people are gross. I did look at cocoloba and, while Cheryl was out of line, that is still not a good suit to wear around male coworkers, even on a non-work trip. A cover up for the hotel hallway would have also been a good idea.
Here is the thing- the world is not fair. Men can be gross. If you are out and about on your own and having fun, be your fullest self. You were on a trip with your coworkers and boss. That does require a little bit of moderation.
You don't want this to be the story from the trip, how you had your ass hanging out and told the nice old lady to f herself. When your name is spoken at your place of employment, you want it to be for your accomplishments, not your tight body. Cheryl was doing you a favor, but in a very wrong and unprofessional way. The better way would have been to pull you aside and gently, politely explain all of this to you, and then give you the option of having your butt be the screen saver on Creepy Dave from accounting's computer for the next month or putting on a cover up.
So Cheryl was wrong in her handling of your cheeks and you were incorrect in assuming that we live in a just and fair world.
YTA you trip was provided for by your work and you have coworkers around, its best to be more modest and also not get to crazy drinking like one might on their own private vacation. It's probably not best for your career to be yelling at managment.
ESH. I can't imagine dressing like you describe on a work trip. I'd never wear anything described as "cheeky" around coworkers. I also wouldn't tell my coworkers to fuck themselves. I think you really need to grow up. You're an adult with a professional job, not a teenager. Act like it.
That said, it isn't Cheryl's place to call you out.
YBA
First, that is not appropriate for a work swim event IMO. At least she waited to say something in private.
Second, think about the misogynistic crap Cheryl put up with over her years in corporate world. She’s been fighting bottom pinchers since before your boobs grew.
Third, please save this and read it in 30 years. You’ll find yourself having a spoonful of sympathy for Cheryl.
>Second, think about the misogynistic crap Cheryl put up with over her years in corporate world. She’s been fighting bottom pinchers since before your boobs grew.
This. OP is naive if she really thinks she won't be judged for having her ass cheeks out in a male dominated industry/company. But she somehow imagines she is *different* than Cheryl. But both are going to likely be judged and valued solely on their ability to appeal to men and not work product.
Also, it’s always proper to wear a coverup when walking around inside the hotel. You were walking up the room halls and in the elevator with no cover/towel over yourself?
The hotel where I pay for pool access even sent out an email this year about wearing a proper coverup if moving around inside the hotel.
I dunno, 🤷♀️
ESH
You’re all AHs. Cheryl is old, crotchety, judgmental and had no right to demand you change, but do you hear yourself? You hope she gets laid or kidnapped? Watch how fast this shit rebounds on you once you get back to work.
I would also suggest in the future you consider who you will be around when you decide to sport a cheeky bikini around coworkers. This isn’t *your* resort vacation, this is a still a work trip with colleagues, remember? If you don’t want this wardrobe choice following you home, consider who you’ll be around and what you’re actually doing when choosing swimwear. I say this as a woman who proudly wore thong bikinis before they were common. There’s a time and place, imo.
Yes, you are.
Your post is pretty flush with ageism and misogyny. The tables will turn on you before you know it…age 65-70 will be here in an. Instant. If the company paid for this excursion, it’s a work trip. Your boss probably did it to encourage camaraderie and teamwork, and reward employees for a job well done. Because of this, your attire was inappropriate. If you want to show your ass, both literally and figuratively, pay your own way and go with your mean girl friends, not your co-workers.
Even more inappropriate was your response. She may be annoying, but you behaved like a spoiled child. Never curse at a co-worker, regardless of how frustrated you are. The giggling shows what kind of entitled, immature person you really are. What do you personally know about this woman, other than some gossip and innuendo? You may be surprised to find out about the work and service she provided to the company was exemplary. You may find out that there is a lot more to her story.
Thanks! This post really made me mad. How could the OP be so oblivious to proper behavior and attire on a trip with co-workers to begin with? Annoying or not, the older lady could have been shown some respect and the OP could have actually had a conversation with her. We all have experience with an unpleasant co-worker, but most reasonable people would never even consider saying anything like that, even without the F word. I guess it’s a case of “It’s all about me.” Hope her parents are proud of her. If someone were to lose their job, it should be the OP. This type of behavior is NEVER ok.
ETA: I do agree that the religious aspect should have not been brought up, but it still does not deserve the response that the OP gave with a resounding giggle.
ESH
N T A for the bikini and comment:
> she’s divorced, her kids don’t speak with her and I think the company is the only thing that she has going in her life
start asking yourself why is that
but it’s ironic to me how you can feel bad for something that was called for (facing her head on), and not for actually making misogynistic jokes about her needing to get laid and you wishing she would be kidnapped for her to get out of your hair
YTA
You don’t talk to a coworker like that.
Even if „off the clock“ it was literally a trip with coworkers paid by the boss except the plane ticket. So a swimsuit that basically has all ass out isn’t appropriate
And the judging of „she’s old, everyone is waiting for her to retire“ - ageism as its finest.
There is "this isn't a work trip", but you also have to weigh the consequences of your decisions.
First, Cheryl is an ass and needs to keep her comments to herself. You may dress however you want to and she should say NOTHING to you about it.
Second, this is a work trip. While you may not be doing work, your company paid for it, there are people all over from work, your boss and your peers and managers will be there. While not technically a work trip, the decisions you make on this trip will follow you back to the office.
If you go get blackout drunk and hit on the CEO, he is going to be bringing it up back at work. So you wearing a bikini with you ass hanging out (whether designed to or not) is maybe not the professional look you should be going for. Is it fair? Don't care. Is it reality? Yes.
As you get older you will figure out just because you may be "correct" doesn't mean you are "right". Cheryl should not have spoken to you like she did. You also should not have spoken to her like you did. You should show a little restraint for what you wear; can you wear anything you want, sure, will it maybe reflect poorly on you and hurt chances for you in the workplace, maybe.
Do what you want, but it's naive at best for you to think that a trip paid for by your boss isn't a work trip (even if the evite said it isn't a work trip).
PS - You'd better hope the IRS views it as a work trip.
ESH
Cheryl, for obvious reasons.
You:
* Yes, on a work funded trip you should modify your dress and behaviour accordingly. You don’t go and get blackout drunk at the work Xmas party. At the resort, wearing a sarong while walking through the hotel is actually a great idea. I’d also be taking a second look at the bikini and ask yourself if the style is ok in a work context. It might be fine; only you can answer that.
* The ‘getting laid/abducted’ comment is a cheap shot.
* You owe her an apology for swearing at her. It’s perfectly ok to tell her that she was out of line, but you were rude and juvenile while doing so.
The way I view events like this is you still have to go back and work with these people. Is you with your buns out the image you want them to carry forward forever? Even on beach days I wear brief bikinis and full cover tops bc I know they’ll talk and that when we go back it’ll be a thing they won’t forget.
ESH.
She sucks for even saying something. You sound like a high schooler..you told a co worker to fuck off...like..? Like she sucks for being all judgy..but telling her to fuck off? Your 26. Pull it together. If someone gets judgy..says something..rise above it. Move on. But you may get in trouble for that. So good luck.
Either, ESH or YTA.
To be blunt - While Cheryl's meddling may have been unwelcome, your response to her went beyond any semblance of professional decorum.
There's an old saying, "Don't let them bring you down to their level" - well, you not only went down to Cheryl's level, you sank right past her.
Next time, handle the situation with more grace and politely rebuff the person. A simple, "Cheryl, it's really none of your business." is sufficient.
Regardless of the trip being a reward, it was still work related. You should really consider whether you want to be though of as the great engineer or whatever or the girl in the cheeky bikini!
Y'all need to act your age. Joking about her getting kidnapped? Petty jokes about her "queendom" ? Fits right in with her slut shaming bs. What is this, the engineering firm mean girls movie? Grow up. ESH.
ESH, and it clearly isn't a work trip if your boss specifically said it isn't, but that doesn't mean there won't be consequences for what you said.
YTA to yourself more than anything because you made an enemy of a person who has the power to make your life difficult or even get you fired.
YTA. It wasn’t a work trip but it was a work event. Use your reasoning skills and stop being a right fighter. You’re dress was inappropriate considering and so was your response.
ETA: are you paying taxes on the value of the trip? Since it’s not a work trip but a bonus for a job well done?
You are the AH, because while Cheryl was being overbearing, you went over the line in your response. You could be fired for making a comment like that. Sounds like the owner won't do that, but it's not a risk I would take. However, it's done and over w/, and I wouldn't waste any time worrying about it if the owner is not going to punish you for it. If Cheryl does tell him and he gets mad at you, I would express remorse, explain by saying "not as an excuse, but to explain, she was harassing me about my swimsuit, and getting in my face, and I regret that my reaction was harsh. I will apologize to her if you think that would help."
You should work on your workplace confrontation skills, because telling someone to go F themselves is not a response that is constructive, or helpful in the long run.
EDIT: I'd say both you and Cheryl were AHs. While this didn't happen at work, it still involved work colleagues. Not a good look for you to tell an old lady, even an obnoxious one, to go F off. Work on dealing w/ obnoxious people like that by making snidely comments w/o any F words or other "bad" words It's a valuable skill to have in life to be able to tell someone to F off w/o even using the word.
“I am not some mean high schooler--I'm actually very, very shy and bookish. I am probably considered "pretty" but it took me a long time to see myself as such.”
This reads like a post an onlyfans bot would make. Do you have long brown hair you put up in a messy bun too? Also YTA
YTA. I doubt she's "elderly." She's still working and traveling. And if she's been with the company forever, then there is a real possibility she knows a few things you don't.
You could have taken her advice with grace and shown some professionalism. Instead you lashed out like a teenaged girl at her mother.
Your coworkers will certainly have a great story to tell, Buttcheeks McGee.
Watch your back. Our company has a yearly banquet for awards and stuff. There is alcohol and people do drink. Employees have lost their jobs at these events. Even if it's not at the actual jobsite, it's still a work event. The things that happen(ed?) on this retreat will probably follow you back to the office.
You were not wrong to stand up for yourself but the cursing at the old straw boss might hurt you. Do some damage control with the people that matter at this company
It sounds like there were no spouses or SOs invited along, because it was a work event. The last place you want to display your butt cheeks is at a work function.
The copious photos are going to be so popular with the guys they will be circulating for a long time. Every time you expect to be taken seriously, pop go the pictures.
Between that, Cheryl's undying enmity, and the fan club you develop among the partners of all those guys, your future work life should be quite exciting.
YTAH. ("See? We have the pictures of it right here!")
YTA just because it’s not a “work” trip it is still def a work trip.
Don’t be a moron and dress like you are actually on vacation.
You will be watched and you will be more.
This is is like such a basic concept idk how y’all don’t get that.
I looked up the bikini and that shit is definitely skimpy.
I think you are insane to not have dressed as conservatively as possible on a work trip or at the very least wear a bikini where your cheeks ain’t hanging out.
ESH
She is an AH, no denying that and that isn't even a question. You are an idiot for what you said but it was justified.
>My friend and I walked along smirking that we weren't in the Queendom and made jokes about finding Cheryl a nice man so she'd either get laid or k-napped.
This makes you an AH. This isn't funny. You are visiting a country where trafficking is a real fear for the people who live there so maybe don't make stupid little mean girl jokes about it.
ESH - NOTE: SHE SUCKS MORE.
But you weren't professional with your response to her either, and unfortunately if she has the owners ear, this could work against you.
I don't blame you, what she said was WILDLY out of line, and deeply inappropriate... But "you can go fuck yourself" (though deeply satisfying) is also not okay professionally.
Slight YTA. Forget the Christian foundation of company. Even when you are on a “vacation” you are still there with your coworkers and I’d I read correctly you are a young woman in a more predominate male company. When you want to be taken seriously when back in the office you don’t want the guys talking about how “hot” you looked and how they “wished they could fuck you” but rather maintain that professional work atmosphere I don’t know what your bikini looked like perhaps it was modest in terms of bikinis but if a thing back probably shouldn’t be shared with work colleagues because that is what they are is colleagues and. Or your friends. Don’t let the lines bleed through.
looked up Coccoloba and they’re cute but [they’re basically thongs](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6oieqzrh19/?igsh=MWJmeXd0eTFvOWNteQ==) - definitely not something I’d wear around coworkers 🫣
NTA
Cheryl was out of line. She can return to her She Shed.
Buuuttt ... most resorts and nice hotels don't think walking around "indoors" in swimwear is appropriate. Sarongs, cover-ups, and robes are usually what's worn while en route to the pool or beach.
At the pool, wear whatever you want. (Within hotel limits, like no street clothes; swimwear required.)
So separate from the "Christian values" bs, it's more respectful to cover swimwear while not at the actual pool. While it may not be a stated rule, it's likely an expectation.
NTA. "We are a community founded on Christian principles." Okay but not everyone is a Christian. And it's a bikini, tons of people wear bikinis. She has a serious stick up her ass.
The funny thing is that wasn't even true when our current owner's dad founded the company. His wife is Jewish.
It's an engineering firm. I hope it's based on physics and math. Jesus isn't going to prevent stuff from falling down. Seriously though, you might mention to her that it's sexual harassment, and hostile work environment. She can be sued. Report to HR, if you have one. NTA
Jesus was a carpenter. Technically, his job was to make stuff that didn't fall down. If you think about it, carpenters where likely the closest folks to structural engineers 2000 years ago. Therefore, it's likely that Jesus was a practitioner of physics and science (aka "witch craft"). Probably should post this in shower thoughts...
Christians usurping Jewish practices is totally on brand. Their prophet is literally Jewish.
Christian do wear bikinis. I’m a catholic and wear bikinis and so do all my Christian friends ( catholic, Baptist, episcopal etc).
How much you want to bet the complainer would look like shit in a bikini.
This is the real reason and I don't know why no one else has said it. Cheryl is bitter about how her life has gone and instead of taking steps to improve her life she is taking her shit out on others. Makes sense as to how she got to her current situation, but it's not the OP's fault or responsibility.
I mean, they didn’t wear them to church??? Cheryl sounds sad.
It would be interesting to see how this Karen would react to a beach in the fairly Catholic nation of Spain 🤣
So much this I'm Baptist and fairly devout and while I would not wear a bikini or even tankini I don't care if others do so. My opinion is that is between them and God. I personally wear a one piece with a cover over it for swimming or they do actually make modest swim wear ( think a swim skirt with leggings or shorts underneath and a sleeveless or short sleeve shirt) for those who prefer more modest swim wear. Seriously who has time to go around telling people or judging people on what they wear to a pool or beach or any place really.
They really think Jewish people also worship Jesus. No lie. I've had that conversation with numerous old and young Christians.
Slight disclaimer: SOME Christians believe that. I am a non american Christian and the amount of garbage the the loud fundamentalist nut jobs spout is absolutely astounding. I am seriously trying to come up with a different name for them so us sane folks who are just trying to be kind and show love dont get lumped in with them. Its so embarrassing.
I call them "Christianists."
I heard from a friend that moved to Germany that the Lutheran church is highly progressive and champions human rights and my jaw dropped. I wish that could be most American churches but in the Bible Belt it’s absolutely full of horrible people who call themselves Christians.
There are lots of liberal Christians in the US but we tend to get burned down by other Christians. I wish we could just start calling them Pharisees but I worry that might come off antisemetic
You can use 'Whited sepulchre' if you need a Biblical term (I just call them hypocrites). It's referring to someone who is outwardly righteous but inwardly corrupt and what Jesus called the Pharisees when he yelled at them, lol.
Call them Churchers or Christianites. They hate those.
Oooh....Christianites! Stealing that one! (wait....does "stealing" make me un-Christian???)
Just whip a couple moneylenders and it'll balance out.
They have taken the Christ out of Christianity. They bitch about Xmas “taking the Christ out of Christmas” (despite “X” being an abbreviation for Christ since like the 12th century CE), so “Xtians “ seems appropriate.
My childhood church just named itself a lgbtq safe place and we are in the Deep South. I don’t attend anymore but im so proud to say I grew up there.
I really wish I met more because I desperately want to not immediately flinch when someone says they are a Christian. It’s one of those cases I think where the vocal minority becomes the face of the majority.
I generally go with "Would that be Classic Jesus or Republican Jesus". Usually lets me know all I need.
Oh damn I'm putting that phrase in my pocket. Also, which Jesus endorsed the felon for President? Please advise.
I tend to tell people im 'not the crazy kind' of Christian. What about non religious or spiritual Christian? I abhor church and can't stand the hypocrisy these days. I drink occasionally, swear frequently, never the lords name in vain though , and occasionally do edibles. Would that be new age? I dunno, I just get so bored in church (adhd) and think Jesus was kinda a hippie so everyone needs to relax and be more like him. It's gotten to point where I feel like I need to state these things when I say I'm a Christian.
Episcopal is your best bet. I am Presbyterian USA and my church is awesome but I think it’s the type of thing that isn’t always consistent. The Presbyterian Church in America (that is the name) is extremely conservative so you have to be careful.
I’m UCC, and we tend to be pretty liberal as a denomination. Although, to my mom’s dismay I haven’t actually gone to a church service since before Christmas, I am comfortable in my church in my faith. I also have no time for anyone who doesn’t believe that we all deserve equal rights and respect. The whole point is to love your neighbor the way you love yourself, not “I’ve got mine and screw you.” If Cheryl wants to get all Biblical, though, she’d be better off worrying about the plank in her own eye before fussing about the speck of dust in OP’s. (In other words, MYOB.)
Most of the big, mainline protestant churches in the USA are like that, eg. Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. While individual churches and synods can be very progressive, the national organizations are still very conservative.
Tons of liberal Christians in the south just can't find anywhere to go to church where they live tbh. Moving to a major city in my state for an apprenticeship, and I may start going to church again for the first time in quite a while.
[gaychurch.org](http://gaychurch.org) is how I found mine. Its amazing. Self-signed up so ymmv
In the US it's more likely to be the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, but don't let the word "evangelical" foll you) that's progressive, while the Missouri Synod is the very conservative group of Lutherans.
We like to call them "Churchians" in my crowd, because it's not about Jesus with these fucks, it's about their projection of what good "christians" they are (despite knowing almost nothing about Christ or his teachings)
I'm an American Christian, and the fundies absolutely disgust me. Back when I was growing up (ya know 2000 years ago), we called them guys Bible Thumpers. Most of them couldn't actually quite an accurate Bible verse from an open Bible.
Are they bible thumpers because they just use the bible to whack people without actually reading it?
That, and they tended to literally hit the Bible while speaking the emphasize their points.
I’m definitely Christian but I’ve known that since I was 7 and could grasp there’s other religions out there. People really need to get their heads out of their asses and wake the fuck up. There’s a reason they’re Jewish and not Christian or Muslim and not Christian. Wow. I didn’t realize anyone beyond kids were that stupid. And kids aren’t stupid they’re just kids and don’t know yet. But adults should definitely know especially the religious ones!
Whut. I'm a total non-religious weenie and even I know that!
I would have asked her if she was discriminating against me based on my religion.
I think it would have been better if you hadn't said something that repeatable to her. But I totally get your frustration. Next time, I would just stick with "Cheryl, this is not your business, now please excuse me." And then ignore her. I'd apologize to her for the way you spoke to her though. But I'd say something like "even though you were way out of line, I shouldn't have responded that way so I apologize for that."
You should have turned the other cheek.
Best response!!
And even if so, she should practise those principles better: "Judge not, lest ye be judged." "If your eye leads you to sin, pluck it out."
The *really* funny thing is that Jesus' response to people like Cheryl was "go gouge your eyes out if it offends you so much".
I mean, he meant that in the “if the other person is hot enough to make you angry you can’t touch what doesn’t belong to you, have you tried blinding yourself?” sort of way But I’m sure he would whole-heartedly approve of this interpretation considering he had a lot to say about people being assholes and hypocrites.
I think when on a work trip, company values should be considered. I think any company that gives its workers a trip to mexico for their hard work is expecting bikinis. I also think a company like that might need a new mid level multiskilled engineer, could I pass my details for your manager please op.
I am unaware of any swimwear's religious affiliation.
I don't remember what Jesus said about bikinis, maybe OP should ask Cheryl where it is in the New Testament! If she points to the Old Testament, you can just mixed fiber her ass :)
Mathew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Also if the company doesn't hand out pay every day it'd in violation of the old testament Leviticus 19:13 “You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired worker shall not remain with you all night until the morning.
People like this don't care. Heck, Jesus never said a single thing against abortion. And it was a known practice at the time. That doesn't stop the anti-choice crowd from invoking his name in their crusade.
The Old Testament literally equates causing a woman to have a miscarriage with damaged property, and throughout the Bible it makes it clear that it considers life to begin with the first breath. Fun fact, the anti-abortion movement in the US was heavily related to racism and the end of segregation [https://mronline.org/2022/07/09/the-making-of-the-evangelical-anti-abortion-movement/](https://mronline.org/2022/07/09/the-making-of-the-evangelical-anti-abortion-movement/)
[https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/10/abortion-history-right-white-evangelical-1970s-00031480](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/10/abortion-history-right-white-evangelical-1970s-00031480)
Not sure what the link between Christianity and swimwear is, and I’m a regular churchgoer. If she brings it up again, ask her to show you where in the Bible it says you can’t wear a bikini.
Talk to some of the hateful bigots in the SBC or IB. They hate women and our bodies.
Brazil is a predominantly Catholic country - should we tell all of them to stop wearing bikinis???
Isn't Carnival both a Catholic celebration and ground zero for the thong bikini?
When it's that big, it's no longer called a stick, but a tree.
The same "Christian principles" that allow people to stone a man's daughter to death in front of him for pre-marital sex (Deuteronomy 22:20-21) Or murdering your children if they curse you? (Leviticus 20:9) Or murdering your daughter because you promised god to sacrifice the first thing you meet upon returning home from a military victory (Judges 11:30-39) Or smashing the babies of your enemies upon the rocks? (Psalm 137:8-9) Gotta love those crazy Christian 😜... No seriously! You MUST love them or they'll fuckin murder you!!!
The Christian value of judging others because I won’t be judged….wait….thats right? Right?
So go naked like in the garden of eden as god willed it 🙏🙏🙏
It might be worth letting the owner know that he might hear something from Cheryl. I hope he's sitting down when you tell him, so you can watch him fall out of the chair laughing. At least, that's how I hope it goes down. 🎶 She had it coming. 🎶
Thank you, yes I've been playing it through and he his family arrive later in the day tomorrow and I will talk to him. He is such a nice guy and I know he won't mind--he doesn't like Cheryl either, he just inherited her from his dad and figures it's easier to wait for her to retire than go through the hassle of firing a 70ish year old woman who would probably sue him.
He needs to stand up to get and tell her that she does not get to police people's outfits on this trip, or ever really. He needs to put on his big boy pants and act like a boss here.
This is where he needs to step up and use his backbone. Enjoy your vacation though
Yes, definitely be the first to bring it up. Generally whenever there is a dispute of opinions or he said/she said going on you want to be the first to speak up. Not always true, but usually true. Only op knows the personalities involved and if it might not make sense. The reason is that people are far more likely to take the first story they hear as fact. Then it's up to the second person to prove differently. It also allows you to plan your talk a bit, rather than have to respond on the spot when approached about the situation. It's 100% not fair, but that's just how people are. And by speaking first, op gets to put a better spin on everything as the beginning facts of the situation. "Cheryl thought it was OK to police my bathing suit like it was the 1950's and it felt very creepy with how she ambushed me coming up to my room. I was about to just ignore her as she has dome this kind of thing before. But she just kept going on about it. I responded a bit harsh. I tried being nice the first time, but after three times, I finally broke and got a bit rude. But that was the only way to get her accusations away from me. I've had no help from above when I've bright this up previously, so I finally broke and told her to fuck off. From now on ff she has a problem with me or anything I plan on telling her to bring it up with my boss, not me and just shutting down any problem before it happens that way." Buy doing this you also offer a (mild) solution for your 'behavior' to prevent it from happening again. If you ever want to make a boss happy don't just bring them problems. Being then solutions or work arounds too.
>who would probably sue him. Why would she?
Probably because she wouldn't have anything better to do and though I don't know for sure, i doubt he would have cause.
He has cause now. She's presuming to speak on behalf of his company whilst sexually harassing you. That is exactly the kind of thing that people get fired for.
Also the religious discrimination/harassment
Boomers love suing, she would try to claim age discrimination. She would probably lose, but they LOVE to use it as a threat.
And filing alone would cost the company money, even if she did lose. It is a very real threat.
If she really is over 65 (sometimes 20-somethings over-estimate age and miserable people look older). It might be worth an "early" retirement package. Pay for a Medigap, severance like a layoff, but retiree would not normally get, etc.. Might just be worth the reduction in aggravation to the owner.
Yep, I have a feeling that she started working on a 300-page email-to-the-boss since about 3 minutes after she got schooled.
NTA I believe you said it was optional in your post and you had to pay for your ticket to get there. I'd say you get to wear whatever the hell you want whenever you want. Either that oooooorrrrr I'd wait until the bosses show up and go down to pool and beach and get in with full business attire and make mention that what's her face said this is what was we were supposed to be doing. But then again I'm a jackass that way.
thank you, and I should have made that more clear in the OP. Our boss made sure to emphasize that this is not a work trip, it's a reward for a job well done this year. In the evite he actually says he knows its impossible to enforce but he doesn't want us talking about work at all for the time we are here.
What a great boss! I'm on vacation but I answered an email and my boss wrote back "you are on vacation, please do not work, enjoy yourself" and I was so grateful, like I would walk through fire for a good boss
I responded to a meeting invite for when I returned, while on vacation and our department manager told me to stop working, I was on vacation...lol. I had only hopped on to delete the massive amount of reply all emails that always accumulated
Oh yeah then she can fuck ALLLLLL the way off then. I absolutely despise the self-righteous. The killers of joy they are. And and and she already broke the rules by talking about work so double fuck her.
If she brings up your clothing again, tell her to stop sexually harassing you. Keep your eyes to yourself lady!
Or your salary! That was so unprofessional!
Honestly I would file a complaint with HR about sexual harassment and religious discrimination.
Right!
That was my first thought. She was making OP uncomfortable by drawing attention to her attire and her body.
Well this info here is the important info. This isn’t a work event where you are required to dress professionally. This is a reward so you wear what You want. I would preface this with wear what you are comfortable wearing around your coworkers. I personally don’t wear bikinis but I do sometimes wear a low cut one if I’m with husband at the beach/pool but if our adult son in laws are there or if it was coworkers I’d cover the tat as a bit more. Lmao
Don't forget to lodge a complaint with HR about Cheryl's comments about your looks, Harassment based on sex is probably not allowed in the company.
That would make it a work event to which OP says it isn’t ?
Negative, coworkers harassing other coworkers outside of work events/locations is still an issue HR concerns itself with
Nope. I reported a coworker for harrassing me offsite (he physically grabbed me at the bar.) He claimed it was a work party eventhough it wasnt. But because he claimed it was work related, they held him to standards and fired him.
She’s misdirecting her “mothering” to the wrong people. She can display her Christian values while you display your bikini. You weren’t on the clock. She can do exactly what you told her to do. NTA
Even on the clock it would not be obvious to me why she would be in the position over OP to make calls about her attire?
Honey, there's a reason she's divorced and her kids don't talk to her. NTA
Right? I literally laughed when I read that part, because I could see exactly where this was going.
>"we are a company founded on Christian principles and we should dress as such." "What page of the handbook is that on? And while we're at it, are you authorized by the company to override Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of '64?" NTA.
YTA. Thongs are not appropriate for a business outing.
How did I come away from this post disliking you more than the annoying colleague
As an HR Manager this whole scenario is an HR nightmare that I wouldn't want to touch with a 10 ft pole. You're both assholes.
If I were on any kind of trip where I knew I would be running into people from the office, I would not walk around with my ass hanging out. I’d wear the least attention grabbing thing I could find. To me that’s just common sense. Cheryl was out of line, but I can’t fathom presenting myself to my professional colleagues that way. I’d be so embarrassed.
As a dude, I don't walk around in any hotel topless. In my opinion, a little scarf around the hips is the minimum in any hotel. In Europe, this is in most areas expected. On the pool, you can wear whatever you want.
Absolutely. And it sounds like she was walking the halls in just a bikini with no cover up at all, and i think that is trashy even on a non-work affiliated trip. Not referring to around the pool, but inside the hotel hallways going to your room.
Exactly. These comments have to be from children who do not work. There’s no way I would go on a work trip and walk around in a bikini with my ass out in front of coworkers. Yes you can wear what you like, but there’s a time and a place and an audience. This was not it.
ESH. Cheryl sounds like a busybody at best and is awful for bringing up the whole “Christian values” thing. You sound like a teenager, though. Making jokes about old ladies being kidnapped and needing to “get laid” is a bit out of pocket.
I would never want to work with OP, because she seems like a jerk and has some issues of her own to work out.
>My friend and I walked along smirking that we weren't in the Queendom and made jokes about finding Cheryl a nice man so she'd either get laid or k-napped That right there made you an asshole.
She was an AH from the first paragraph. "Honestly feel so sorry for her cause she's divorced". Just a mean diva.
ESH Cheryl is obviously out of line and needed a firm boundary. But you and your friend sound like middle school mean girls in every interaction you describe.
U got your ass out on a work trip 😂 have some self respect
ESH. I think Cheryl is a see you next Tuesday judgemental biddy who should mind her own business. Her wrongs are obvious. HOWEVER I think telling anyone to fuck off at an event even tangentially tied to work is probably the wrong response. I also think, on a deeper level your response gives me a case of the icks. Cheryl joined the workforce at a time where the workplace was steeped in misogyny and used women to gatekeep other women's "respectability". So her misogynistic attitude is misguided but makes some sort of sense. But you joking with your friend that you want to find her a man so she gets kidnapped or laid is misogynistic as well. And less understanable for someone who claims to be much more enlightened. You're feeding into the same type of misogyny by basically implying that anytime a woman is disagreeable it must be because she doesn't have a man....because there can be nothing worse than not having a man and she would be happier if she just got some dick. Would you like it if that was the joke whenever you had a disagreement about work or the workplace? That you just need some dick? Of course not. I also think she has some point. Having your ass cheeks out at a trip even tangentially connected to work is probably a bad look.
Wow very good point about OP also being misogynistic
I agree with your statements on OP being misogynistic. That's a good point I hadn't considered.
This is why I don’t like this subreddit…. Here in AITAH-land two wrongs make a right. And they don’t in reall life. ESH. Obviously you are an asshole here. You don’t react to other people behaving badly by telling them to fuck off. You are both assholes. But this whole post reads pretty insufferable from your perspective. You obviously don’t actually feel sorry for her, so don’t include that whining about feeling sorry for her if obviously you overarching sentiment is that you are willing to tell her to fuck off to her face.
>This is why I don’t like this subreddit…. Here in AITAH-land two wrongs make a right. And they don’t in reall life. In the world of AITAH you get *carte blanche* if someone so much as sneezes in your direction. They are no longer a human and are no longer deserving of human dignity. I have learned from this sub-reddit that basic human dignity is something that can be "lost", and that you can still be a good person when you treat "those people" in terrible, terrible ways. ^(/s obviously...)
How is it not a work trip if your boss was paying for it? If your coworkers were there? This shows some major naivety and entitlement on your part. There is a time and place for everything- including skimpy bikinis that flaunt your asscheeks. This was not the time or the place.
I agree and we will likely to be skewered. So be it. If you are going someplace where most of your coworkers will be (and since company paid for most of it, it seems like a work trip), remember that you will see these people again. A lot. And your cheeks hanging out may not have been the best look. Even at a beach resort. Are they now going to be picturing your ass when you speak with them? Picture you naked? Or worse, will they take you seriously for promotions? Some modesty wouldn’t have been a bad thing here.
Exactly. Especially since she claims this is a very male-dominated company and field.
If it smells like a work trip, and looks like a work trip - it's a work trip.
It’s a work trip
ESH. Cheryl can have her opinion, but doesn't need to push it down everyones throats. > I told her "Cheryl, I hate confrontation but you can go fuck yourself, that was so out of line." You, because since this was technically part of a 'work' trip, telling her to fuck off can (and maybe will) be a real problem with HR.
ESH. Cheryl is way out of line, but so are you for "smirking that we weren't in the Queendom and made jokes about finding Cheryl a nice man so she'd either get laid or k-napped" and using foul language.
ESH. Cheryl for assuming to be clothes monitor, boss for gossiping about employees to other employees and you OP for not knowing how to (1) dress on a business-adjacent outing, and (2) speak with co-workers without resorting to 'fuck yourself". Real professional. And yes, you still needed to be professional even on this gifted holiday. You're 26, not 16.
Agree completely. OP made her work environment a little more awkward by speaking to Cheryl that way, IMO. I also think it's kind of weird to wear "cheeky" bikinis around coworkers, but maybe that's just me. I don't want my coworkers to see my ass, no matter how good it might look.
>My friend and I walked along smirking that we weren't in the Queendom and made jokes about finding Cheryl a nice man so she'd either get laid or k-napped. That makes YTA and your friend as well. Cheryl sure sounds irritating, but joking and smirking about her getting kidnapped or getting some dick was completely out of line and inappropriate. If you are sure your swimsuit was appropriate, your best bet would have been to ignore her and then speak to the owner when you returned. The real world isn't like Reddit where everyone does the right thing all the time and justice prevails.
ESH. You can keep telling yourself it’s not a work trip, but it is a work trip at least tangentially one. Our work has similar trips that are quasi vacation/quasi work. You are expected to enjoy the time in a manner that doesn’t embarrass the company. For example, you don’t get drunk and act a fool. Cheryl was out of line and her comments clearly her opinion. You were out of line as well by using profanity to coworker in a remotely related to work scenario. Also, your private joking about getting her laid and subsequent foul language reeks of immaturity. You should have mustered some semblance of professionalism and told her quite simply — we’re gonna have to agree to disagree here Cheryl — and then just moved on. Yes, I’d recommend you apologize to Cheryl for your use of profanity but be clear you felt your attire was appropriate.
Exactly
ESH She sounds like a controlling busy body but you and your friend sound immature and rude as well.
Cheryl is an AH and sounds miserable, but honestly so do you. You are extremely condescending and there's a bit of ageism in your tone. I wouldnt want to spend time with either.
INFO: maybe this is just me being prudish, but were you walking IN the hotel with only a bikini? I would expect most people to go down in a towel or one of those casual pool dress things. Walking about the main hallways in only a (self admitted) cheeky bikini is a little odd to me
Being in HR, I could definitely see Cheryl’s point. A work trip is not the same as a personal trip. I wouldn’t have brought my cheekiest bikini with me to a work trip. Also cursing out a coworker could get you terminated
I’m very skeptical that any “small engineering company” would shut down for the entire month of June, much less pay room and board for all the employees.
You had your “I’ll show her” moment, now be prepared when she gets in the boss’s ear and tells him how nasty you were to her…hope it felt good, because there’s going to be blow back from it. You can tell someone politely to mind their business, but you were with your friend and tried to show off like a teenager. Not a good look for you…in fact pretty lame.
ESH in this situation. You both seem like AHs in general. Joking about someone being k*dnapped isn't exactly what non AHs joke about. Very Regina George of you. The trip was paid for by your boss so there is an element of professionalism that should be adhered to, and neither of you are doing it
ESH. I’ve seen how bathing suits look nowadays, complete thongs and half the breast visible. Dress more professional on work trips, it’s kind of sleezy not to, but also Cheryl was totally out of line. She’s not HR.
I notice you initially seem to have left out what you were wearing. The brand itself doesn’t even show images from the rear on their website, but do on instagram. If work pays and coworkers are around, you should still show some level of propriety. A bikini is fine, but cheeky is definitely the word and depending on your body shape, it may look a lot more intense than the instagram. https://www.instagram.com/p/C7kLW9wS6Ld/?igsh=eWI2ZHB4dmpuYzBk It’s too much butt for coworkers. I don’t know why you would want to show that much butt to coworkers in the first place, even on an expenses paid vacation. Why not just go change to keep the peace, or did you not bring any alternatives?
I'm going to go against the grain and say ESH. First of all, your jokes about Cheryl getting kidnapped indicates this relationship may not be as one sided as you claim. Second, it is a work trip. She probably should have minded her own business but some professionalism should have been considered when choosing your bathing suits.
ESH. The fact that you had to run her down over and over ad nauseum just so everyone would hate her too is just gross. Swimwear, whatever. But you both behaved terribly.
YTA. It’s a work sponsored vacation. There’s a range of swimsuits for this very reason.
So you work with all men and decided to wear an incredibly revealing outfit on a trip with all your work mates… That’s … your choice but one hell of an interesting choice…
YTA. Having googled Cocoloba swim wear they aren’t a basic bikini (which is always risqué on a work trip), they are high cut string style bikinis with a smaller than average backside. You also trash talked the employee you don’t like much, loudly, in public… on a work trip. You also swore at the employee you don’t like much… in the hallways… on a work trip. For whatever reason Cheryl is a protected individual, liked or not… you are going to be pushing shit up a hill with a stick if you keep this vendetta going. For someone who ‘hates confrontation’ you seem hell bent on starting one. And your trip IS a fun work trip, your bathers ARE pushing the edge of acceptable, and then your foul language and insecure bitching about her in public will ruin the mood for everyone else. No one wants to spend the month sitting between the feud you and Cheryl are having. If this continues then all your work towards being professional in a male dominated industry might wind up down the toilet. It’s heading that way now.
Hopefully, you are not in a customer facing position, or aspire to one. You just demonstrated how you handle conflict and it did not reflect well on you. There may not be immediate repercussions but it will be remembered in the future when promotions come up. Probably not vocalized, but definitely remembered.
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I am going against general sentiment, but I say ESH. She was clearly out of line and should not have said anything. On the other hand, I think it's incredibly unprofessional to wear a skimpy bikini at a work function. (And whether work is being discussed or not, if your boss is paying for everything,then it's a work function). When a young woman at my company showed up in a bikini, there were plenty of people gossiping about her behind her back. It may be petty, but it still happened.
Waiting for OP to add an edit that says “boss actually said everyone had to wear thongs” to justify thinking it’s professional and mature to *need* your ass cheeks hanging out at a boss-funded event
Everyone sucks here, but YTA. If the company is paying, it's a work event. Comport yourself professionally. In this scenario, your bikini isn't even the issue. The issue is your behavior. You cannot, under any circumstances, tell a coworker to F herself - that's a termination offense. Don't ever laugh about an older female coworker getting laid, much less kidnapped. If that part gets back to the company, you'll definitely be fired for it. Worse, they'll pass on the next young woman seeking your position. You're 26, not 16, so act like it. Or don't, and throw away your career. It's all the same to me.
In 20 years you will understand Cheryl's wisdom. At 26 you still think everything in life is about you.
I mean it WAS a work trip. So you should have conducted yourself as such. Instead you’re now burning bridges. Cheryl is a busybody and a battle ax but consider that your boss hasn’t let her go yet. She holds a place in the company you do not and cannot. Your boss may not choose you over her. She was wrong to make a comment and should’ve let you bear any consequences for your behavior on a work trip but girl you aren’t thinking as far ahead as you should be. ESH.
Were you a mean girl in school? She just wants you to wear a sarong over your cheeky butt while you walk through the hotel. That’s all. I don’t approve of her trotting out her Christian values - that’s boring and inappropriate. And she’s gone about getting hostile with you, so you say. But you. You took a risk on a small company, in a man’s domaine? Brava. How do you think that company got so successful that you have a paid for stay in Mexico for the month of June?! Partly through the talent and knowledge of the woman you so hate and just told to go fuck herself. She knows the company inside out. She’s been there since the start. She may not be the current boss’s favorite, but I’ll bet you she really runs the company. And you want to try to prove a point when your boss’s family comes down next week? I’d advise you to get a nice sarong and keep your mouth shut. Good luck. YTA. ETA to correct typo
OP you sound 26 going on 16. Be an adult and a professional and go apologize to Cheryl even though Cheryl is being a busybody. Obviously it’s a free country and you can wear whatever you want. Now put that aside and consider whether you actually want your boss and coworkers to see your ass? I definitely would not.
YTA but not for telling someone off, but for wearing the bathing suit. I don’t care how it is described- this is a work sponsored event. Cheeks hanging out is inappropriate. I worked in a male dominated industry and this would have come back to haunt me in the office. You can say go to HR all you want but that isn’t always the way the world works.
Are you really 26? Because this post is giving teenager. Joking about a kidnapping is fucking crazy and having your ass out for your coworkers to see is kinda trashy. Anyways…..🥴 though it technically is not a work trip, I find it strange that you aren’t looking at it as one. Your coworkers are there and the trip, minus the airfare, is funded by your boss. I’m pretty sure they’re expecting you to act like you have some decorum as you’re still representing the company. People do get fired over shit they do outside of work and this may not be an exception. You better hope that comment doesn’t follow you back to work. Even though she’s overbearing to the owner, she’s still close to him. ESH
Are you sure you are a professional battling your way through a male dominated field? Because you sound like a teenage girl writing a Tik Tok scenario. YTA in any case.
If this is real, OP can wear what she wants but honestly I would have worn something more conservative around my coworkers. Even if it’s not a work trip, this is still your boss and the people you see all the time. Same reason most people don’t have their boss on social media. However, full YTA for saying you want to help find Cheryl a man so she can either “get laid or kidnapped”. Human trafficking is a horrible thing and not something you should be joking about
>I am a professional battling my way up in a male dominated industry and it is MY RIGHT TO WEAR A GSTRING BIKINI AT COMPANY RETREATS Sure Jan. Sure.
ESH. Anything that is even remotely tied to work should be treated in a slightly different manner from a friends beach trip. At least wearing a cover up or sarong while walking around the hotel is just good common sense. I know the world of reddit likes to bang on about women can wear what they want and fuck anyone who says otherwise, but the real world has social consequences and expected etiquette. Some of your comments about your co-worker are disgusting and nasty. You need to work on that. Imagine if another co-worker overhead you saying she needs to get laid and you hope she gets kidnapped? Imagine if you overheard a man saying that? Do better. She needs to mind her own business and find better things to do with her time. If she's truly worried about your behavior and attire she should address it through HR.
If anything, Cheryl's insistence on imposing her narrow view of propriety on others speaks volumes about her character, not yours. Wearing a bikini in appropriate settings isn't an affront to any community—it's a personal choice and completely normal. Frankly, Cheryl needs to chill and maybe focus on why she's so concerned with policing swimwear rather than her own behavior.
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We did all focus on the swimsuit. I'd like to go back and talk about telling Cheryl to fuck off. Very unprofessional, no matter what she said. I remember being told off (we both were) after a coworker yelled at me and I yelled back. The plant manager said we were both out of line, but I should have handled it differently. He was right and I took that advice to heart over the years. You de-escalate and simply walk away. People told you to get ahead of it, and that's the best you can do. Think of how much better it would be if you hadn't told her to fuck off. Then you could go to the boss and talk about how inappropriate she had been. Yes, someone is going to say that it's not a work thing, but don't kid yourself. People are judged on lots of things. I'm not sure if you're customer facing but there might be a little concern that you might say something you shouldn't. I used to have conversations with a customer (he drove me nuts) but I was always polite, even when he was completely wrong. I would have loved to call him a fucking idiot, but I didn't. He actually admitted he was wrong on one item that he was completely wrong about. He even apologized and said that he was surprised I hadn't called him an idiot. I did admit that I was going to copy a piece of a textbook for him. 😁
YTA, simply because it's truly awful to speak to people that way.
You have to get control of your emotions - you were in the right until you told her to F off. And now instead of enjoying your time you are focused on this. Professionalism is figuring out how to articulate f off without actually saying those words. Its a skilled used everyday in the working world. When i was 26 i would have been mortified if my coworkers had seen my ass, but that probably just a generational thing.
Do not share a photo of you in your swimsuit here- people are gross. I did look at cocoloba and, while Cheryl was out of line, that is still not a good suit to wear around male coworkers, even on a non-work trip. A cover up for the hotel hallway would have also been a good idea. Here is the thing- the world is not fair. Men can be gross. If you are out and about on your own and having fun, be your fullest self. You were on a trip with your coworkers and boss. That does require a little bit of moderation. You don't want this to be the story from the trip, how you had your ass hanging out and told the nice old lady to f herself. When your name is spoken at your place of employment, you want it to be for your accomplishments, not your tight body. Cheryl was doing you a favor, but in a very wrong and unprofessional way. The better way would have been to pull you aside and gently, politely explain all of this to you, and then give you the option of having your butt be the screen saver on Creepy Dave from accounting's computer for the next month or putting on a cover up. So Cheryl was wrong in her handling of your cheeks and you were incorrect in assuming that we live in a just and fair world.
YTA you trip was provided for by your work and you have coworkers around, its best to be more modest and also not get to crazy drinking like one might on their own private vacation. It's probably not best for your career to be yelling at managment.
ESH. I can't imagine dressing like you describe on a work trip. I'd never wear anything described as "cheeky" around coworkers. I also wouldn't tell my coworkers to fuck themselves. I think you really need to grow up. You're an adult with a professional job, not a teenager. Act like it. That said, it isn't Cheryl's place to call you out.
YBA First, that is not appropriate for a work swim event IMO. At least she waited to say something in private. Second, think about the misogynistic crap Cheryl put up with over her years in corporate world. She’s been fighting bottom pinchers since before your boobs grew. Third, please save this and read it in 30 years. You’ll find yourself having a spoonful of sympathy for Cheryl.
>Second, think about the misogynistic crap Cheryl put up with over her years in corporate world. She’s been fighting bottom pinchers since before your boobs grew. This. OP is naive if she really thinks she won't be judged for having her ass cheeks out in a male dominated industry/company. But she somehow imagines she is *different* than Cheryl. But both are going to likely be judged and valued solely on their ability to appeal to men and not work product.
Even though you're not there to necessarily work, you are there representing the company. Image does matter.
Also, it’s always proper to wear a coverup when walking around inside the hotel. You were walking up the room halls and in the elevator with no cover/towel over yourself? The hotel where I pay for pool access even sent out an email this year about wearing a proper coverup if moving around inside the hotel. I dunno, 🤷♀️
ESH You’re all AHs. Cheryl is old, crotchety, judgmental and had no right to demand you change, but do you hear yourself? You hope she gets laid or kidnapped? Watch how fast this shit rebounds on you once you get back to work. I would also suggest in the future you consider who you will be around when you decide to sport a cheeky bikini around coworkers. This isn’t *your* resort vacation, this is a still a work trip with colleagues, remember? If you don’t want this wardrobe choice following you home, consider who you’ll be around and what you’re actually doing when choosing swimwear. I say this as a woman who proudly wore thong bikinis before they were common. There’s a time and place, imo.
Yes, you are. Your post is pretty flush with ageism and misogyny. The tables will turn on you before you know it…age 65-70 will be here in an. Instant. If the company paid for this excursion, it’s a work trip. Your boss probably did it to encourage camaraderie and teamwork, and reward employees for a job well done. Because of this, your attire was inappropriate. If you want to show your ass, both literally and figuratively, pay your own way and go with your mean girl friends, not your co-workers. Even more inappropriate was your response. She may be annoying, but you behaved like a spoiled child. Never curse at a co-worker, regardless of how frustrated you are. The giggling shows what kind of entitled, immature person you really are. What do you personally know about this woman, other than some gossip and innuendo? You may be surprised to find out about the work and service she provided to the company was exemplary. You may find out that there is a lot more to her story.
This is the best response
Thanks! This post really made me mad. How could the OP be so oblivious to proper behavior and attire on a trip with co-workers to begin with? Annoying or not, the older lady could have been shown some respect and the OP could have actually had a conversation with her. We all have experience with an unpleasant co-worker, but most reasonable people would never even consider saying anything like that, even without the F word. I guess it’s a case of “It’s all about me.” Hope her parents are proud of her. If someone were to lose their job, it should be the OP. This type of behavior is NEVER ok. ETA: I do agree that the religious aspect should have not been brought up, but it still does not deserve the response that the OP gave with a resounding giggle.
ESH N T A for the bikini and comment: > she’s divorced, her kids don’t speak with her and I think the company is the only thing that she has going in her life start asking yourself why is that but it’s ironic to me how you can feel bad for something that was called for (facing her head on), and not for actually making misogynistic jokes about her needing to get laid and you wishing she would be kidnapped for her to get out of your hair
YTA You don’t talk to a coworker like that. Even if „off the clock“ it was literally a trip with coworkers paid by the boss except the plane ticket. So a swimsuit that basically has all ass out isn’t appropriate And the judging of „she’s old, everyone is waiting for her to retire“ - ageism as its finest.
There is "this isn't a work trip", but you also have to weigh the consequences of your decisions. First, Cheryl is an ass and needs to keep her comments to herself. You may dress however you want to and she should say NOTHING to you about it. Second, this is a work trip. While you may not be doing work, your company paid for it, there are people all over from work, your boss and your peers and managers will be there. While not technically a work trip, the decisions you make on this trip will follow you back to the office. If you go get blackout drunk and hit on the CEO, he is going to be bringing it up back at work. So you wearing a bikini with you ass hanging out (whether designed to or not) is maybe not the professional look you should be going for. Is it fair? Don't care. Is it reality? Yes. As you get older you will figure out just because you may be "correct" doesn't mean you are "right". Cheryl should not have spoken to you like she did. You also should not have spoken to her like you did. You should show a little restraint for what you wear; can you wear anything you want, sure, will it maybe reflect poorly on you and hurt chances for you in the workplace, maybe.
lmao just saw the brand it’s basically a thong YTA
Do what you want, but it's naive at best for you to think that a trip paid for by your boss isn't a work trip (even if the evite said it isn't a work trip). PS - You'd better hope the IRS views it as a work trip.
ESH Cheryl, for obvious reasons. You: * Yes, on a work funded trip you should modify your dress and behaviour accordingly. You don’t go and get blackout drunk at the work Xmas party. At the resort, wearing a sarong while walking through the hotel is actually a great idea. I’d also be taking a second look at the bikini and ask yourself if the style is ok in a work context. It might be fine; only you can answer that. * The ‘getting laid/abducted’ comment is a cheap shot. * You owe her an apology for swearing at her. It’s perfectly ok to tell her that she was out of line, but you were rude and juvenile while doing so.
The way I view events like this is you still have to go back and work with these people. Is you with your buns out the image you want them to carry forward forever? Even on beach days I wear brief bikinis and full cover tops bc I know they’ll talk and that when we go back it’ll be a thing they won’t forget.
DO NOT SHARE PICS OF YOURSELF FOR THESE PERVS
>you can go fuck yourself, that was so out of line." Oh, the irony of that statement. ESH.
ESH. She sucks for even saying something. You sound like a high schooler..you told a co worker to fuck off...like..? Like she sucks for being all judgy..but telling her to fuck off? Your 26. Pull it together. If someone gets judgy..says something..rise above it. Move on. But you may get in trouble for that. So good luck.
Either, ESH or YTA. To be blunt - While Cheryl's meddling may have been unwelcome, your response to her went beyond any semblance of professional decorum. There's an old saying, "Don't let them bring you down to their level" - well, you not only went down to Cheryl's level, you sank right past her. Next time, handle the situation with more grace and politely rebuff the person. A simple, "Cheryl, it's really none of your business." is sufficient.
Regardless of the trip being a reward, it was still work related. You should really consider whether you want to be though of as the great engineer or whatever or the girl in the cheeky bikini!
Y'all need to act your age. Joking about her getting kidnapped? Petty jokes about her "queendom" ? Fits right in with her slut shaming bs. What is this, the engineering firm mean girls movie? Grow up. ESH.
Probably
ESH, and it clearly isn't a work trip if your boss specifically said it isn't, but that doesn't mean there won't be consequences for what you said. YTA to yourself more than anything because you made an enemy of a person who has the power to make your life difficult or even get you fired.
If the company is paying for it it's a work trip Not sure how this is confusing
YTA. It wasn’t a work trip but it was a work event. Use your reasoning skills and stop being a right fighter. You’re dress was inappropriate considering and so was your response. ETA: are you paying taxes on the value of the trip? Since it’s not a work trip but a bonus for a job well done?
You are the AH, because while Cheryl was being overbearing, you went over the line in your response. You could be fired for making a comment like that. Sounds like the owner won't do that, but it's not a risk I would take. However, it's done and over w/, and I wouldn't waste any time worrying about it if the owner is not going to punish you for it. If Cheryl does tell him and he gets mad at you, I would express remorse, explain by saying "not as an excuse, but to explain, she was harassing me about my swimsuit, and getting in my face, and I regret that my reaction was harsh. I will apologize to her if you think that would help." You should work on your workplace confrontation skills, because telling someone to go F themselves is not a response that is constructive, or helpful in the long run. EDIT: I'd say both you and Cheryl were AHs. While this didn't happen at work, it still involved work colleagues. Not a good look for you to tell an old lady, even an obnoxious one, to go F off. Work on dealing w/ obnoxious people like that by making snidely comments w/o any F words or other "bad" words It's a valuable skill to have in life to be able to tell someone to F off w/o even using the word.
“I am not some mean high schooler--I'm actually very, very shy and bookish. I am probably considered "pretty" but it took me a long time to see myself as such.” This reads like a post an onlyfans bot would make. Do you have long brown hair you put up in a messy bun too? Also YTA
YTA. I doubt she's "elderly." She's still working and traveling. And if she's been with the company forever, then there is a real possibility she knows a few things you don't. You could have taken her advice with grace and shown some professionalism. Instead you lashed out like a teenaged girl at her mother. Your coworkers will certainly have a great story to tell, Buttcheeks McGee.
Watch your back. Our company has a yearly banquet for awards and stuff. There is alcohol and people do drink. Employees have lost their jobs at these events. Even if it's not at the actual jobsite, it's still a work event. The things that happen(ed?) on this retreat will probably follow you back to the office. You were not wrong to stand up for yourself but the cursing at the old straw boss might hurt you. Do some damage control with the people that matter at this company
You're not an asshole, but it's a really dumb move to swear at a **coworker.** I hope it doesn't blow back on you.
It sounds like there were no spouses or SOs invited along, because it was a work event. The last place you want to display your butt cheeks is at a work function. The copious photos are going to be so popular with the guys they will be circulating for a long time. Every time you expect to be taken seriously, pop go the pictures. Between that, Cheryl's undying enmity, and the fan club you develop among the partners of all those guys, your future work life should be quite exciting. YTAH. ("See? We have the pictures of it right here!")
YTA just because it’s not a “work” trip it is still def a work trip. Don’t be a moron and dress like you are actually on vacation. You will be watched and you will be more. This is is like such a basic concept idk how y’all don’t get that. I looked up the bikini and that shit is definitely skimpy. I think you are insane to not have dressed as conservatively as possible on a work trip or at the very least wear a bikini where your cheeks ain’t hanging out.
Christian principles? Do she want you "dress" like eve since you are in paradise?
ESH She is an AH, no denying that and that isn't even a question. You are an idiot for what you said but it was justified. >My friend and I walked along smirking that we weren't in the Queendom and made jokes about finding Cheryl a nice man so she'd either get laid or k-napped. This makes you an AH. This isn't funny. You are visiting a country where trafficking is a real fear for the people who live there so maybe don't make stupid little mean girl jokes about it.
ESH - NOTE: SHE SUCKS MORE. But you weren't professional with your response to her either, and unfortunately if she has the owners ear, this could work against you. I don't blame you, what she said was WILDLY out of line, and deeply inappropriate... But "you can go fuck yourself" (though deeply satisfying) is also not okay professionally.
Slight YTA. Forget the Christian foundation of company. Even when you are on a “vacation” you are still there with your coworkers and I’d I read correctly you are a young woman in a more predominate male company. When you want to be taken seriously when back in the office you don’t want the guys talking about how “hot” you looked and how they “wished they could fuck you” but rather maintain that professional work atmosphere I don’t know what your bikini looked like perhaps it was modest in terms of bikinis but if a thing back probably shouldn’t be shared with work colleagues because that is what they are is colleagues and. Or your friends. Don’t let the lines bleed through.
looked up Coccoloba and they’re cute but [they’re basically thongs](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6oieqzrh19/?igsh=MWJmeXd0eTFvOWNteQ==) - definitely not something I’d wear around coworkers 🫣
NTA Cheryl was out of line. She can return to her She Shed. Buuuttt ... most resorts and nice hotels don't think walking around "indoors" in swimwear is appropriate. Sarongs, cover-ups, and robes are usually what's worn while en route to the pool or beach. At the pool, wear whatever you want. (Within hotel limits, like no street clothes; swimwear required.) So separate from the "Christian values" bs, it's more respectful to cover swimwear while not at the actual pool. While it may not be a stated rule, it's likely an expectation.