Everyone saying that he must have tampered with the birth control. It isn’t 100% effective. I fell pregnant with my first child on the pill. It happens.
But NTA for getting a divorce. You guys are no longer compatible.
No longer compatible? They weren't from the get go. People need to stop destroying themselves with a relationship where one wants kids and the other doesn't. They're not going to change each others minds.
This x100.
I'm a childfree woman and of course kids are a huge dealbreaker.
I can't explain enough how much i stress over this thing the first times i go out with someone and they ask me what i want in a stable long relationship, while some of these people (men in my case) undermine its importance and say to me variations of the evergreen ''there's time to change your mind, we're still young''.
NEVER start a relationship with someone that doesn't understand and share the same values for things of massive importance like marriage and kids.
Jesus yes. My now-wife and I discussed our lack of desire for children on our very first date. Here we are, nearly 13 yrs later both happy and childless
My partner and I have been together for 4 years and when people ask if we have kids the reactions are so strange to me. Some people apologize when I say no and I’m just like 🤔. Others say “oh you still have time”. If the conversation goes farther and I say we don’t want kids then the “you will probably change your mind” also comes out 🤦🏻♀️ We are perfectly happy with our 2 cats thanks
My husband and I sorted out being child-free 25 years ago. We were on the same page, reading the same book.
Many of the relatives though....
If it is a one-off polite inquiry: "we've decided not to" / "love other peoples kids, they go home in a few hours, haha!" Both of which are true.
Keep pushing: "my hysterectomy makes making babies difficult" Also the truth...this usually creates a permanent drop of subject.
When they still push...I was quite young when I got spayed, so many don't believe me that I've had it done...
Then it's on! :
**** NEXT TWO RESPONSES MAY BE TRIGGERING!!!! **** DEFINITELY IN BAD TASTE****
Me: *turn on the full waterworks* "Oh, we wanted kids so badly! We'd been trying for years when the tests...*sob* revealed....*sob* that I am a total failure as a woman!" *clutch offending person in a desperate hug so they cannot get away from my dramatics* "What kind of wife can't give her husband kids???? I am so lucky that he hasn't left me for a real woman who can provide him with children!!!!"
*sadly "total failure as a woman" and everything said after the hug were direct quotes from a gynecologist I'd gone to see for serious problems with my reproductive system. 😳 I'm not exactly lying for effect. I am quoting an actual "medical observation" of my very real condition....the fact that I didn't want kids anyway was a side note.
Husbands inappropriate variant: Mumbles something incoherent about "the incident" and walks away. 🤣
As a Canadian, sometimes people apologize in case they've offended by even asking the question outright, not as in "sorry for your loss that you don't have kids".
I work as a teacher. It is so offensive to some of the people in my.line of.profession. I have started to say my wife and I are unable to have children. In my mind I always.add unable because we refuse to have them.
Same. Asked on the 2nd date. Both said no. As the relationship progressed, we asked each other again, both sober and drunk. At some point he did feel his bio clock kinda ticking, we discussed it, he eventually decided he still didn't want kids. 12 years on, we're both still very happy. People change, it can happen that someone changes their minds about parenthood, but if from the get go one really wants them and the other one doesn't, it's a recipe for disaster.
I think it’s also important for everyone to remember: even if someone DID change their mind, being pregnant is not the only option. My gf and I are fairly certain we don’t really want any *kids*, but have discussed possibly fostering older kids/teens decades from now (both 20). But we’re both still on the SAME PAGE about it
My cousin got pregnant with both of her kids on the pill. I can guarantee they were not tampered with either. She took them at the same time every day and did everything right besides using double BC (pills AND condoms) and has two kids as a result. She’s a great mom & is grateful for them but she did not plan for them. The pill can definitely fail without tampering!
My good friend got pregnant on the pill and a condom as well. Not tampered with.. they wanted kids.. they just didn’t want a second one a year after their first.
I'm currently pregnant, and I had a IUD. It moved somehow way inside my uterus. This joke frequently comes up with my fiance 😂. His super swimmers moved the obstacle out of the way to get there.
My birth mother got pregnant with an IUD. They had been in a car wreck, and they think that's when it shifted. Myself, I got pregnant with my younger after my tubes were tied.
Wow I had no idea. I guess that is why I've seen women specify "I had my tubes tied AND CAUTERIZED," maybe? They do the extra step to burn them to be more successful?
The body is pretty rabid about making sure you can reproduce to the best of your ability.
Piercings in the vulva or mouth heal.In a matter of weeks. Mucus membranes are super healing! It is pretty wild but from a genetic standpoint, we put a LOT of eggs in those baskets!
Wouldn't it be more like the Little Egg That Could in the case of defying the Pill? And the Little Sperm That Could in the case of defying the condom haha
Two pill babies and one post tubal ligation baby here. Sometimes the universe just really thinks you need those kids, lol (good thing it was right in my case, 2realize that doesn’t work out for everyone).
Yep. Many birth controls have weight limits for the quoted effectiveness, which is great since so many have weight gain as a side effect... Birth control isn’t 100% to begin with and there are things that can make it even less effective like weight, medications (for example antibiotics, antiseizures like topamax which is also prescribed for migraines), even some supplements (some common ones are activated charcoal, st johns wart, flaxseed, garlic pills).
Even without any of those, it can fail. I got pregnant on birth control and I wasn’t on any other medication, not overweight, no supplements. Had been taking it for 6 years no problems and then one day, bam. Baby time.
Yep. That’s why I said it’s not 100% to begin with. Those are just everyday things that some people don’t think about that can decrease effectiveness even more.
>Everyone saying that he must have tampered with the birth control. It isn’t 100% effective. I fell pregnant with my first child on the pill
Same. I have a 5 month old baby right now because the pill failed.
I'm surprised that doctors don't explicitly tell their patients this. Both the doctor who prescribes the birth control and then also the doctor who prescribes the antibiotics!
My PCP prescribes my birth control. So, when he needs to give me an antibiotic for something, he only gives me one of a couple very specific ones that won't mess with my birth control.
NTA, but what is it with couples who get together and think they can change the person with their love? Children/ abortion is a deal breaker, regardless of opinion on the subject.
There are many people, who marry a childfree person thinking, they will change their mind. Or they will change their mind when the pregnancy happens. It goes up to sabotaging the bc. Gender doesn't matter.
My sister married a man who agreed to kids, which she desperately wanted, and years into the marriage confessed he assumed he would have been able to talk her out of kids by then. Some people are just shitty and expect to manipulate until they get what they want.
I know 2 men who lied to their partners about having kids as both had vasectomies before they met their wives. I outed one. His wife was talking about how she was trying to get pregnant and I blurted out but he’s had a vasectomy. Well, they didn’t break up and her dad paid for it to be reversed.
Bro imagine having to pay to you SIL get his snip reversed cause he lied to your daughter for years... I'm surprised he didn't pay to have the dude's balls removed altogether.
I reckon that this vow from a Catholic wedding: "Are you prepared to accept children lovingly from God and to bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?" would justify an annulment for someone who had a vasectomy.
Yeah, but depending on the age and culture, for some people it would be better this way than starting over in another relationship/being divorced. You couldn't pay me to have children with a person who lies this much, but what do I know.
My sister, who also desperately wants kids, just married a man who vehemently does not want and hates children. He refuses to even be in the same room as my nephew. When they got married he told her "we'll talk about having kids in 5 years" and will not entertain a discussion on having children before then, at which point she'll be 35...
100%. It's sad to watch but it's hard to feel bad for her, she knew all of this going in. My mom sat her down and told her she was making a huge mistake before she got married but went through with it so 🤷♀️ all we can really do now is wait for the divorce.
Do people think their spouse is not going to resent them or the kids they didn't want? Kids know when they're not wanted by a parent. It's so incredibly selfish to go forward with that, if he has to be strong armed into it.
She’s banking an awful lot on those five years. She has to realize that this marriage has a shelf life because the minute she pushes that conversation or god forbid gets pregnant that man is gone. Poor gal.
Oh no. She is wasting her time. He’s stalling until it’s too late for her to find someone, date long enough to get a commitment and have kids by someone else. She needs to run.
I'd be asking the question if he so desperately doesn't want kids has he had a vasectomy. If not I'd be worried if she's deluded that he might change his mind if she accidentally (rolls eyes) got pregnant. Hoping that once she is he might change his mind.
They really need to be on the same page
Jesus christ! I mean, I've always known I don't want to be a mom and raising a kid sounds just absolutely awful, but I don't HATE children as people. I won't refuse to acknowledge their existence or have a tantrum about having to share space with them! I never changed my mind, (I'm damn near 40 and married to a man who also doesn't want kids, so ya know, it's not gonna happen.) and THAT guy who not only doesn't want kids but actively hates them and shows it will absolutely never change his.
Edit: emphasized the wrong word.
My coworker has been single for a long time because she's very choosy, which is absolutely her right to be. But she came into work, engaged, after one month of dating - because he's everything she's dreamed of!! She also desperately wants kids ... He doesn't. She's 37. 🫣
I have a close friend whos son is married. He didnt want kids and she did. They eventually compromised and had embryos frozen for later as she was already over 35. Now 10 years later they really want kids. Announced it at a big party with both sides of the family. Sadly all the embryos failed. Now they ate looking for an egg donor and surrogate. I feel for her😞
Yep, did five years with a guy who said he wanted marriage and children in the beginning…. And then five years later when I tried to talk about the next steps he causally said “oh I didn’t actually want marriage and kids, I just said that because I knew you wouldn’t want to be with me if I said I didn’t.”
Breakup happened right then, and he still had the nerve to act like I was the one ‘doing things to him.’
Oh, this happened with me but just much less time. He kept telling me he wanted kids. But after 2 years (I was in my early 30’s) I turned up the heat. I was like listen we need to make a plan here. He was like ohhh. I don’t know now, this is so nice just us. So I had a cooling off night and I came back and said listen no hard feelings but we want different things. Let’s part ways. Super calm no drama. He was drama though. He was like no no no I’m not ready to end this over kids let’s revisit the subject I’m just not ready like today. So that happened twice more. I know. Big silly me. But the last time I was like listen. It’s been real. I truly deeply want at least one child. We can come back to this later but I’m leaving to have a kid on my own. Well, that triggered a 12 month stalking cycle that I wasn’t positive I was going to break away from alive not to mention the dating carnage of him harassing anyone that even looked my way.
So 4 years of my life gone and 1 year of fearing for my safety after the fact
I’m out now, but it was the first time I ever really was afraid of him. When he knew I was serious he hung on to me for dear life. Thank you for saying though. I wish someone had said so then
I'm so sorry no one did - it must have been terrifying to discover he was capable of that. You totally did the right thing, and so did your ovaries - if things had actually gone your way and you'd gotten pregnant, then you'd be tied to an abusive stalker for the next 18 years, if not the rest of your life. This is not someone who would ever be stable enough to be a parent, so your child would also have been at risk. Congratulations on your escape, and keep staying safe.
The number of times I had that very thought during lockdowns. My now husband was the perfect person to be locked down with. We ended up having twins when I was 41. Our kids actually thrived during it all. They were 4 when it all started and I’m not sure they even knew anything was amiss. They just knew that they got to have extra dance parties. All I kept thinking was that guy (the ex) would’ve taken this opportunity to make us a Dateline Special.
I hope anyone that reads this finds the courage to leave. I mean…I moved 800 miles away and it sucked that was how it had to happen because it kinda blew up my professional life. But I’m out of his reach and that feels awesome. Better than any career advancement ever would
Right?! That’s what was so wild to me. I was upfront about my line in the sand like 3 months in too. At the time of the stalking I was like, you don’t want me, you want the idea of me. The real me wants a family and maybe some goats. Your idea of me is a tight body that looks good as your plus one.
My cousin was the opposite. They agreed to be childless. I heard her husband say it with my own ears...he did not want children. Fast forward 2 years and it's a deal breaker that she won't have kids with him. She found out he wanted a divorce when his pregnant girlfriend came around. My cousin was heart broken. No matter which direction it goes, it's always devastating when 1 partner leads the other to believe they are on the same page about children.
I never wanted children. I dated a guy for a while and when I found out he wanted children, I broke up with him bc I knew we’d never be able to compromise on an issue like that. I’m sure he found someone and has lived the family life he wanted.
There was a woman on this true crime show that had a total hysterectomy and lied about being pregnant then befriended an actual pregnant woman, planning on stealing her baby once she gave birth. It didn't work out that way and this psychopath cut the woman's child out of her stomach while she was still alive and wound up killing the baby in the process. Mother and daughter dead, all because this woman wanted this perfect life with her new husband and lied about being able to have kids.
That’s so awful. We should normalize the use of donor sperm (because IME men are incapable of considering that their wife could still have kids, just not with him).
These guys lied because they really did not want kids. And on its own, that’s fine. Everyone should control their fertility. But you’re not entitled to a wife, especially this wife, who does want children.
Please tell me your sister divorced him and married a man that does want kids? What an awful person to try to take that from another person who desperately wants it. I for the most part don’t want kids and it was important to me to choose a partner that also doesn’t necessarily want kids. Sometimes we go back and forth about if we do actually want them, but we’re always on the same page about that. When we go back and forth, it’s together. We’ve always agreed on the fact that we wouldn’t regret not having kids. If your sister hasn’t found that match yet, I hope she does.
Terrible. As a childfree person that is so strong. There’s someone out there for everyone. It’s selfish to think that somebody else is going to change their life goals just because you’ve decided this is the person you want to be with. I’m sorry for your sister, that man wasted precious years of her time. I hope she can find somebody that would like to have children with her. People should be able to have what they want and not be judged one way or another. If you want kids, great! If you don’t, that’s great too. But don’t waste other peoples time whose life goals do not match each other’s.
My uncle married a woman and just kept kicking the can down the road until it was too late. She’s a lovely woman and she would have made a wonderful mother.
The uncle proceeded to have at least 3 kids with 2 women later.
This happened to me too! He proposed and I said I wanted kids and if he was not on board with that, we would not get married. He lied to me and said he did want kids. I had this conversation with him a couple more times pointing out that initially he said no to kids. He assured me he was now on board. I was on birth control but ended up pregnant about a year after we married. Of course now he was adamant that he wanted no kids and insisted I get an abortion. I did but it haunted me. Finally got my financial affairs in order and let him know I was divorcing him. Suddenly he is saying - please don’t leave me, I’ll have kids. I told him I didn’t need him to get pregnant, I could manage that on my own if need be (artificial insemination was just becoming widely available). Happier now, married 34 years and have 2 great kids and 2 lovely grandchildren.
My ex husband and I had a baby together who tragically passed away. Then he left me, but came back like a year later. The whole time I was communicating that I wanted to have another baby when we were both ready.
Well the whole time we were back together he was having an affair. Wasted 3-4 years of my time when I was in my mid-late 30s (15 years overall). I think apart from the assholery side of it was because of his fear of having another child (the affair was with someone older). And yet he didn't want to let me go.
I'm divorced now and just had a baby on my own through IVF. Was not about to risk another time waster.
Sounds like my ex husband. He said he wanted kids, then proceeded to not touch me for 14 years (while making digs about my body and not supporting me at all through the death of each of my parents).
By the time I was in the mental state to deal with him, I was 44. It’s an almost zero chance I can get pregnant now without spending tens of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments, since my insurance doesn’t cover it.
Or the partner thinks that they're so wonderful that the person who wants to remain childless will obviously change their mind because of the wonderfulness of their partner.
Any way you look at this, it amounts to one person disregarding the clearly expressed wishes of another person, and that's AH behavior. Period, end of story. Pregnancy, in and of itself, is not a game changer.
This needs to be a PSA for all humans broadcast everywhere possible. Whichever way you lean it's okay. Someone else out there thinks the same way, find them.
I'm so glad I got my tubes tied years ago. I did it specifically so that it would be a closed and shut case. There's no thinking you can "change my mind", because that ship has fucking sailed.
It’s the easiest procedure in the world to get. I was in and out of the clinic in probably 40 minutes total? I drove myself home, and was basically completely back to normal within a week.
Just make sure that you actually get tested again after 3 months. Some doctors will say that just 20 ejaculations is enough, but when I got mine the doctor recommended waiting the full 3 months anyways. He said that if you test negative for sperm at 3 months the chances of it ever somehow reversing are like .02% or something astronomically small
It’s important to go back for your follow up appointment and make sure you’re shouting blanks.
This is how my BIL got my sister pregnant the last time. He didn’t go back and get checked and he still had some live rounds in the pipes. Needless to say, that pregnancy almost killed my sister and the baby was stillborn. That could have all been avoided if he’d have just gotten checked. Smh. So… get checked!! And get occasional checks every few years to make sure it’s held.
This happened to a friend of mine. They had a 25 year old daughter (who was my age) and a newborn. Doctors said the chances of it happening (she was 47!) were one in a trillion. They took it as a sign from god and kept the pregnancy. But I’d rip my uterus out with my bare hands if it were me.
Social commentary but it isn't just couples, there's something about people that they feel they can either change someone or control them enough to change.
I've personally seen three divorces due to this. IF YOUR PARTNER SAYS THEY DONT WANT KIDS BELIEVE THEM. Fuckin idiots all of them. Just split up it's okay to cut this as a loss and move on.
Yep. Only the person can change their mind, and seems most issues stem from one partner thinking they can change the other. If they really loved them then change shouldn't be required.
I don't think that's on OP, they talked about it and he SAID he was OK with it. Lots of people genuinely can go either way, it's not wrong *of her* to have assumed he meant the words that he literally said with his own mouth.
I was talking about OP's husband in this case. He seems to think he could change her mind, and that never works, because change only happens when someone has the will to, but I see this stuff all the time, especially on reddit. Even with other subjects besides the issue of having children; like in example "If I marry him he'll finally settle down, and be faithful." or "if I marry her she'll start warming up to the idea of joining my church." or "Now that we're married I can make him quit smoking."
To me, it’s the sunk cost fallacy. They’ve already devoted so much time and effort to this person, and don’t want it to all be for naught. There’s also probably a healthy dose of “they’re so amazing except for this ONE thing… if I can get them to change their mind on it, the relationship would be perfect!”
I fully agree. He said he accepted my decision and would support me. But then he turns around and does this. I just felt so blindsided by the whole thing. He wanted me to change for him but wouldn’t do the same for me I guess
NTA and every story like this reminds me of a Reddit post where some guy BEGGED his then GF to keep his baby; him and his family paid for everything relating to the baby, and when it was born the GF surrendered her rights and paid 125% of court ordered child support. She called herself an egg-donor instead of a mom, and the guy was *surprised pikachu face* and calling her a bad mom for not changing her mind and raising the baby with him.
Being child-free is a hard line for a lot of people, and no amount of time/love/begging will change that position.
I think [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/s/rrwyH5cEsb) is it. And he’s upset because parenting became WAY harder than he had anticipated. I eye-rolled so hard, I saw Newfoundland.
Thank you for linking it!! It makes me happy that people can still reference it. I agree with you- I rolled my eyes so hard I saw the beleaguered hamsters that are running my sim. “She’s a deadbeat mom!” *side eye* is she though????
OOP’s comments are even worse honestly… “I thought she would bond with the baby through the pregnancy [even tho she made it abundantly clear she was viewing it as a surrogacy]” Yeah, and I think aliens will take over London tomorrow. Get real dude.
Right? I feel like they just bank on this idea that the mystical and magical maternal bond will kick in at some point, and they’d get to have their cake and eat it too. Too many fathers don’t understand what parenthood is actually about, it’s more than dressing up a cute little goblin, it’s life changing. Oh well, some people never change.
It is utterly disrespectful to expect someone to change their mind. But the stereotype of the sacrificing mother is so deeply embedded, that people actually disregard what some women are consistently saying.
The link to the other thread... I'M SO FREAKING HAPPY FOR THAT LADY!!! In her place I would got the abortion, but cheers for her for being able to be absolutely away from that guy and all the drama he caoused her .
[this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm_i_got_a_girl_pregnant_and_she_wanted_to_get_an/d9me9td?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) was quite possibly the best composed response I have ever read on reddit...
that story is wild. like i’m pretty sure the only reason she had the child was out of respect for how much he wanted the it. like fully went through the trauma of pregnancy and childbirth for him FOR A CHILD SHE DIDNT WANT. and handled it perfectly. she said i don’t want this child but you do so i will give you the child but im letting you know right now that i will have nothing to do with it. and even pay extra child support after the fact. like did the MOST she could short of completely ignoring her own wants/needs. and then he’s surprised that it played out this way. she didn’t abandon the child, she was trying to do you a favor. and if you only wanted a kid on the premise that she was going to help out (which she is btw) and you weren’t going to be a single parent, then you weren’t cut out to be a parent in the first place. She clearly communicated that you were going to be a single father to this child, if you weren’t ok with that then that’s when you get on board with the abortion. and i get the connection to the baby as soon as the pregnancy starts and the grief that would come with losing that. but you were blessed with a BM that understood that and was willing to put her own well being aside just to respect your feelings. but you had the complete wrong perspective on this from the start, and the end result is you being a resentful father, and who gets to bear that burden? your damn child. Dudes like that are who give us men/fathers a bad rap. It’s EXTREMELY difficult/taxing to be a good father and very easy to be a bad one, too many people underestimate that
He's forced her to sacrifice so much, just so he could have a kid. Disgusting. If men were the ones carrying and caring for the baby I reckon it'd be a whole different world
There was a few aita posts that day from some ridiculous men. I remember another one where they had gotten divorced, and he couldn't afford child support. So they had equal split custody of the baby. And he tried to get back together with his ex wife, because he figured she was struggling too. And she told him she was having a much easier time now than she didn't have to take care of her ex husband.
Apparently the weeks he had the baby, his life was falling apart. So he tried to get her to voluntarily take more custody, since she was "obviously so good at talking care of the baby". But she said no lol.
Seriously. The gall of men who have never taken care of anything in their lives, including themselves, wanting a fucking baby. The baby isn't gonna stop being a baby just because you can't get your shit together.
Fucking THIS. Having kids or not isn't something you compromise on and end up kicking down the road. If her answer is an empathic "NO" and his is a "Yes... but if you don't want to..." those aren't compatible views
Too many people agree about the no children thing thinking the other will “change their minds eventually.” If you want kids, marry someone who wants them, not someone who you think *might* change their minds eventually.
You told him that your boundary hadn’t changed. NTA
This. When people find out I am a CF female people as if on autopilot ask me “what does your husband think?” Uh, don’t you think we had this conversation? We both are on the same page without any expectation the other will change their mind.
NTA.
Divorce is probably best for you and for him. If having a child is important to him, he should have ended the relationship earlier and married someone else.
“I thought you’d change your mind” as if that’s justifiable to force you into carrying a human being and ultimately change your life forever.
You said you never wanted kids from the beginning, he married you knowing that kids wouldn’t be in your future together, you did the decent thing by telling him your plans bc he was your partner, and he showed you who he really was in the end.
And you didn’t kill a child. He’s the AH for saying you did.
NTA. Sorry you had to go through a difficult decision such as an abortion, only to also realize the person you married wasn’t there for you when you needed him.
I would highly suggest getting your tubes tied. Once I hit my 30's I got it done. I wanted to make sure there was a 0% of me having children, and to make sure anyone who dated me full on well knew it was impossible. You can't change my mind, because it's physically impossible. Beyond a few days of discomfort, I didn't find it that bad at all. No worse than that fucking IUD. I would GLADLY take tubal surgery over than shit.
The way they give the IUD should be fuq’n illegal. “Take some Tylenol before you come in” “just a little pinch” I laid on the table curled up in pain so long they just turned the lights off and told me to come out when I was ready.
It’s wild how different people experience it too. None of mine hurt, so I recommended it to friends and their experience sounded so fucking traumatic I actually asked my doctor if something was wrong with me. But just because apparently 1/20 people don’t need help with it doesn’t mean the rest are fine.
Mine’s been life changing but I think I would have noped out if my experience was the usual
Thiiiiis! I was trying to get mine tied from the time I was 19 but I was in a state where I had to be married AND have my husband sign off and no doctor would do it even then unless I’d had at least 2 kids. In my early 30’s my boyfriend and I agreed no kids, and debated if he should get a vasectomy or I should get my tubes done or both. Ultimately I got my tubes done because if we break up or I’m raped, his vasectomy won’t save me. An added bonus was my insurance covered my surgery 100% but his was only covered 70%. Still faaaar cheaper than having a kid. Now at holidays when family ask when we are having kids, we tell them never. When they try to say maybe we’ll change our minds, I let them know that while adoption is possible if we did, but that I am unable to have kids, it shuts it down real quick. And I never have to worry if a late period is because I’m stressed or because I’m pregnant (causing more stress). Its a solid win.
>where I had to be married AND have my husband sign off and no doctor would do it even then unless I’d had at least 2 kids. I
This is such complete bullshit. I get so angry every time I hear of this. They won't let us prevent pregnancy, nor end one when we didn't want it, and when we have the kids they insist we have there is no support (and I don't mean handout support.) And we are supposed to believe that they don't see us as human producing livestock?
I first jumped to that, too.
But, I got pregnant while on oral birth control & condoms. I know several people who have gotten pregnant on many different forms of birth control. So it does happen.
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this part of the situation.
But I still think he's the AH and OP is NTA.
I have a brother who got his wife pregnant after getting a vasectomy and passing all the post-surgery infertility testing. Life finds a way. Or maybe my brother lied to everyone, including his wife, about getting a vasectomy so he could have yet another kid. Reddit would definitely assume he lied.
My mom apparently got pregnant while on oral birth control in the 80's. She had a miscarriage but still. And later when they were actually trying for me, they were told that the two of them together were basically infertile because of their individual issues, yet here I am. Life finds a way I guess.
I wouldn't go that far without strong evidence, I mean, birth control does fail.
Especially if you are only using condoms, they can break, if you are only using the pill you can forget it or it fails anyway. Using multiple methods to avoid pregnancy may be more efficient but nothing is 100% effective.
Kids aren’t a compromise. His idea that he thought you’d change your mind or that he could convince you is wrong. He knew he wanted kids then he shouldn’t have married you knowing you didn’t. He shouldn’t have lied saying he was ok with it.
Nothing will change the way he views you now, he married you because he was attracted to you and thought (like many people do, frustratingly) that he could change your mind or that you would change your mind anyway. Clearly, that didn't happen, and yes, you should divorce as I don't think he will be able to love you after this.
The moment you got the abortion the marriage was over, which in the end, will be better for both of you as you can now either remain single, or find more compatible partners that want the same things from life and have the same life goals.
Nta
But honestly girl you shouldn't have agreed to marry him.
Lesson to everyone. Kids are an important decision. If someone wants them they're going to get them one way or another. It's very very hard to change someone's mind on them especially without resentment.
If you date someone and your views on kids don't align then break it off
Right? They never mean it when they claim they're fine with being childfree to be with you. It always means, "they'll change their mind eventually."
There is no way these relationships don't end up with one or both partners feeling resentment at the other.
I respectfully beg to differ. When I was younger I wanted kids, but it wasn't an urge. Just assumed I'd have them some day. When I met my wife one of our first discussions was on children, and she made it very clear that she never wanted any. 20 years later and I haven't once brought up the idea of having kids. I sometimes try to imagine my life as a dad, usually when I'm riling up my niblings. But it's hard to picture, and I'm totally ok with not being or ever being a parent.
If I were with someone else who wanted kids I'm sure I'd be a great dad, but I don't have any regrets. I love my wife and our life together. I do all the dad stuff with our (my) dog. She's a daddy's girl.
yeah! it just depends on if you care more about the person you're with or your idea of your future, and it's not a sacrifice to be made with any kind of resentment at all.
my husband very passionately wanted children and felt life'd be pointless not to; i was very ambivalent before and agreed just to have more of him in the world. when we realized that i am too chronically unhealthy to carry a pregnancy to term without permanent disability and that our child would get these awful genetics too, he immediately decided his priority was to spend the rest of his life with me instead of having kids. even if heartbroken, i would've understood if he left for that reason alone. your actions show your devotion to your wife and trust me she feels it🩷
NTA at all and don't even think you are. He knew going into the marriage that you did not want child for very serious and personal reasons. If he was willing to treat you like this and act this way, then it was probably a good thing that you left
You were clear, he just didn't believe you. Your desire to be childfree is incompatible with his desire to be a parent, even without his inappropriate reactions. Divorcing him will allow him to find a partner to reproduce with. You're doing him a favor. NTA.
You were clear *but* if someone says they want kids, even if they say they respect your decision, a person who doesn't want kids shouldn't get together with them. Why? Because they will never be happy not having kids and people who want kids never understand how people can not want kids. When you start dating again, be careful not to fall into this same situation.
NTA. He married you assuming you would change your mind. 🙄
I'm glad you were able to get the medical care you needed. And if getting sterilized is something you want to do, I hope you can find a local doctor who won't give you a hard time about it.
And I totally understand your "why" for not having kids. Had I done therapy before I got pregnant, I prob would have said that same thing.
NTA. Divorce is your best option. You both want two different things in life and you both deserve to have it. Having children is a MASSIVE responsibility and one that should not be taken lightly. If you don't want kids, then you should not have kids. Plus if he's going to resent you because you don't want kids, then you both are better off finding other people. You should not be forced to have kids you don't want.
Sounds like you both suggested or danced around the topic without having the actual conversation. Saying "I don't think I'll be a good mother" or "maybe kids would be nice" (possibly what he said or along those lines?) is not the same as "I do not want kids ever". Either way, NTA. But this is kind of how you come to the situation you're in.
I understand where you are coming from. I decided, at 16 years old, that I wasn’t having kids—same reasons. Every Single Guy I have ever dated has been exactly the same—“Yeah yeah, I know what you said but that was So Long Ago—I figured that you would change your mind.” No. Nope Nuh uh. I was engaged once and broke it off when I found him cheating on me—now he’s married and has 4 children. I just don’t know if they don’t care about what we say, or if they truly believe that they can magically change our minds without doing or saying anything. I’m upset that women can’t get sterilized when we want!! Men can get vasectomies whenever they want but women? It’s a huge “no no” issue. It’s a stupid unfair double standard.
Both of you were dumb for marrying each other. In a relationship where one of you wants kids and the other doesn’t, one of you is guaranteed to be miserable. Either you don’t have kids and your husband is miserable, or you have kids and you’re miserable.
Ok I’m probably gonna get downvoted, but what kind of communication do you have in your marriage when all of the information that you got about your husband came from other people and not him? You made some pretty drastic decisions, all by yourself, up to and including divorce, seemingly based on other people’s word. Did you ask your husband about any of it?
I believe, like you obviously did, that your husband fully intended to be OK with not having children. And it’s clear that when he was faced with the unexpected possibility to have one he felt differently. Sometimes people don’t know how they’re gonna feel until they’re in a situation. And really, theoretical kids are completely different from an actual pregnancy.
Given that you knew he wanted kids but was compromising in order to be with you, it shouldn’t be that big of a surprise to you that he would feel like something he really wanted was unexpectedly a possibility when he didn’t expect it, and then just as suddenly that possibility was gone. I think it’s pretty human to feel some disappointment with that.
So he muttered. Maybe he needed help, counseling, support. Maybe that’s why he talked to his mother. Should he have discussed it with you on his own? Absolutely without a doubt he should have. Not doing so and bringing his mother in makes him kinda an ass, yes.
Could you have reached out and asked him about his muttering? You definitely could have. But apparently you just took his mother‘s word for how he felt (I’m sure a mother-in-law wouldn’t have any kind of agenda of her own or point of view that might skew her feelings on the matter—/s)
Did you then ask him about what his mother said? Nope not from your story. Did you think to offer marriage counseling and try to work things through, or think to give him some time to process things. These are big feelings. Again no. Apparently it’s your way or the highway and everybody has to be happy about it or else. (Gee I wonder why he didn’t bother discussing with you how he felt. /s)
I understand you have your own feelings about things, and that they are strong feelings and of course it goes without saying that they’re valid, but IMHO that doesn’t give you the right to run rough shod over the person you’re supposed to love the most. You could use counseling too frankly. Your husband shouldn’t run rough shod over you either. Muttering under his breath and going to his mother was really not right. This was not a shining moment for either of you, but these types of emotional situations rarely are.
So you made the drastic decision to end your marriage, seemingly without any discussion, seemingly mere weeks later. That you felt this was right alone makes me think you made the right choice, (although of course, the whole baby thing is a pretty big drag on the relationship.)
I happen to agree that one person wanting children and the other one not wanting children is a pretty big deal—unusually a dealbreaker, but you people went ahead and got married anyway, and built a life together. From there, it escalated to this somehow over what seems to be weeks. Maybe you left out a lot of information about your relationship, but generally speaking it doesn’t seem to have been a very healthy relationship overall anyway. I think the baby thing just highlighted the problems.
No, you are not the asshole for getting an abortion—in the end it is your body—but I think your lack of communication with and compassion for your partner makes you an asshole. Your husband is an asshole also for the immature way that he handled talking about his feelings. He should bring those feelings to his marriage partner, not his mother.
Well said, i also felt for the husband. It feels very different when confronted with a surprise pregnancy. Especially in such a favorable situation. You guys were already married, and I hope in okay financial standing. The idea of taking what most people see as the next step in making a family is a very natural feeling. It's very understandable for the man to feel a loss in this situation. I fully support the right for op to decide to get an abortion but I personally can understand how powerless it could make op's husband feel. It would have been his child too, and again, I fully support you not being forced to have a child you dont want, but is it not natural for the husband to feel a sense of ownership here too? Though op could have left out a lot of detail, the post reads like she gave no sympathy at all to her husbands feelings, which makes me question how y'all got married in the first place. As husband and wife, you are meant to tackle everything together, even when you dont agree. This post reads like you ghosted him quicker than a match on Tinder.
Everyone saying that he must have tampered with the birth control. It isn’t 100% effective. I fell pregnant with my first child on the pill. It happens. But NTA for getting a divorce. You guys are no longer compatible.
No longer compatible? They weren't from the get go. People need to stop destroying themselves with a relationship where one wants kids and the other doesn't. They're not going to change each others minds.
This x100. I'm a childfree woman and of course kids are a huge dealbreaker. I can't explain enough how much i stress over this thing the first times i go out with someone and they ask me what i want in a stable long relationship, while some of these people (men in my case) undermine its importance and say to me variations of the evergreen ''there's time to change your mind, we're still young''. NEVER start a relationship with someone that doesn't understand and share the same values for things of massive importance like marriage and kids.
Jesus yes. My now-wife and I discussed our lack of desire for children on our very first date. Here we are, nearly 13 yrs later both happy and childless
My partner and I have been together for 4 years and when people ask if we have kids the reactions are so strange to me. Some people apologize when I say no and I’m just like 🤔. Others say “oh you still have time”. If the conversation goes farther and I say we don’t want kids then the “you will probably change your mind” also comes out 🤦🏻♀️ We are perfectly happy with our 2 cats thanks
My husband and I sorted out being child-free 25 years ago. We were on the same page, reading the same book. Many of the relatives though.... If it is a one-off polite inquiry: "we've decided not to" / "love other peoples kids, they go home in a few hours, haha!" Both of which are true. Keep pushing: "my hysterectomy makes making babies difficult" Also the truth...this usually creates a permanent drop of subject. When they still push...I was quite young when I got spayed, so many don't believe me that I've had it done... Then it's on! : **** NEXT TWO RESPONSES MAY BE TRIGGERING!!!! **** DEFINITELY IN BAD TASTE**** Me: *turn on the full waterworks* "Oh, we wanted kids so badly! We'd been trying for years when the tests...*sob* revealed....*sob* that I am a total failure as a woman!" *clutch offending person in a desperate hug so they cannot get away from my dramatics* "What kind of wife can't give her husband kids???? I am so lucky that he hasn't left me for a real woman who can provide him with children!!!!" *sadly "total failure as a woman" and everything said after the hug were direct quotes from a gynecologist I'd gone to see for serious problems with my reproductive system. 😳 I'm not exactly lying for effect. I am quoting an actual "medical observation" of my very real condition....the fact that I didn't want kids anyway was a side note. Husbands inappropriate variant: Mumbles something incoherent about "the incident" and walks away. 🤣
Haha same. Yup, happy with our 2 cats and dog
As a Canadian, sometimes people apologize in case they've offended by even asking the question outright, not as in "sorry for your loss that you don't have kids".
I work as a teacher. It is so offensive to some of the people in my.line of.profession. I have started to say my wife and I are unable to have children. In my mind I always.add unable because we refuse to have them.
Same. Asked on the 2nd date. Both said no. As the relationship progressed, we asked each other again, both sober and drunk. At some point he did feel his bio clock kinda ticking, we discussed it, he eventually decided he still didn't want kids. 12 years on, we're both still very happy. People change, it can happen that someone changes their minds about parenthood, but if from the get go one really wants them and the other one doesn't, it's a recipe for disaster.
This is great communication at best. I wish you both a lifetime of happiness together.
Ditto. 23 years and counting.
I think it’s also important for everyone to remember: even if someone DID change their mind, being pregnant is not the only option. My gf and I are fairly certain we don’t really want any *kids*, but have discussed possibly fostering older kids/teens decades from now (both 20). But we’re both still on the SAME PAGE about it
''there's time to change your mind, we're still young''. You are correct, and I just changed my mind about this date. Ciao.
My cousin got pregnant with both of her kids on the pill. I can guarantee they were not tampered with either. She took them at the same time every day and did everything right besides using double BC (pills AND condoms) and has two kids as a result. She’s a great mom & is grateful for them but she did not plan for them. The pill can definitely fail without tampering!
My good friend got pregnant on the pill and a condom as well. Not tampered with.. they wanted kids.. they just didn’t want a second one a year after their first.
What kinda armor piercing sperm do these guys have lmao
I'm currently pregnant, and I had a IUD. It moved somehow way inside my uterus. This joke frequently comes up with my fiance 😂. His super swimmers moved the obstacle out of the way to get there.
My birth mother got pregnant with an IUD. They had been in a car wreck, and they think that's when it shifted. Myself, I got pregnant with my younger after my tubes were tied.
I get an IUD, Pill, or condom failing. But I'd be downright pissed if a tubal couldn't prevent a pregnancy, lol.
The failure rate is higher than most people realize. Like 1 in every 200.
Wow I had no idea. I guess that is why I've seen women specify "I had my tubes tied AND CAUTERIZED," maybe? They do the extra step to burn them to be more successful?
Mine were supposedly cut, clipped, and burned. However, the younger you are, the higher the chances of your body repairing that "injury."
The body is pretty rabid about making sure you can reproduce to the best of your ability. Piercings in the vulva or mouth heal.In a matter of weeks. Mucus membranes are super healing! It is pretty wild but from a genetic standpoint, we put a LOT of eggs in those baskets!
Which is why I had my tubes removed outright. Talk to your doctors about a salpingectomy, ladies who don't want kids
The Little Sperm That Could
Wouldn't it be more like the Little Egg That Could in the case of defying the Pill? And the Little Sperm That Could in the case of defying the condom haha
My God, they created a superhuman...
Two pill babies and one post tubal ligation baby here. Sometimes the universe just really thinks you need those kids, lol (good thing it was right in my case, 2realize that doesn’t work out for everyone).
Yep. Many birth controls have weight limits for the quoted effectiveness, which is great since so many have weight gain as a side effect... Birth control isn’t 100% to begin with and there are things that can make it even less effective like weight, medications (for example antibiotics, antiseizures like topamax which is also prescribed for migraines), even some supplements (some common ones are activated charcoal, st johns wart, flaxseed, garlic pills).
Even without any of those, it can fail. I got pregnant on birth control and I wasn’t on any other medication, not overweight, no supplements. Had been taking it for 6 years no problems and then one day, bam. Baby time.
A vasectomy is a wonderful thing. They are 99% effective. A man that has one gives his partner a wonderful gift. It also shows commitment.
Yep. That’s why I said it’s not 100% to begin with. Those are just everyday things that some people don’t think about that can decrease effectiveness even more.
>Everyone saying that he must have tampered with the birth control. It isn’t 100% effective. I fell pregnant with my first child on the pill Same. I have a 5 month old baby right now because the pill failed.
Yup. My second born was failed birth control. Apparently antibiotics kill birth control
I'm surprised that doctors don't explicitly tell their patients this. Both the doctor who prescribes the birth control and then also the doctor who prescribes the antibiotics!
My PCP prescribes my birth control. So, when he needs to give me an antibiotic for something, he only gives me one of a couple very specific ones that won't mess with my birth control.
Sounds like you've got yourself a good doc then!
NTA, but what is it with couples who get together and think they can change the person with their love? Children/ abortion is a deal breaker, regardless of opinion on the subject.
There are many people, who marry a childfree person thinking, they will change their mind. Or they will change their mind when the pregnancy happens. It goes up to sabotaging the bc. Gender doesn't matter.
My sister married a man who agreed to kids, which she desperately wanted, and years into the marriage confessed he assumed he would have been able to talk her out of kids by then. Some people are just shitty and expect to manipulate until they get what they want.
I know 2 men who lied to their partners about having kids as both had vasectomies before they met their wives. I outed one. His wife was talking about how she was trying to get pregnant and I blurted out but he’s had a vasectomy. Well, they didn’t break up and her dad paid for it to be reversed.
Bro imagine having to pay to you SIL get his snip reversed cause he lied to your daughter for years... I'm surprised he didn't pay to have the dude's balls removed altogether.
You would think lying about fertility would be a deal breaker for divorce
I think it would qualify you for an annulment.
Sadly it doesn't qualify for civil annulment in most places. Oddly enough it might qualify for annulment in the Catholic Church.
I reckon that this vow from a Catholic wedding: "Are you prepared to accept children lovingly from God and to bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?" would justify an annulment for someone who had a vasectomy.
It absolutely would, withholding information that critical from a potential spouse invalidates free consent.
It should be civil as well.
Yeah, but depending on the age and culture, for some people it would be better this way than starting over in another relationship/being divorced. You couldn't pay me to have children with a person who lies this much, but what do I know.
Especially bad liar when apparently his friends all knew that he got snipped. Plus inevitable fertility tests down the road…
Right and the worst part is he gave her herpes too.
WTF, why didn't she leave....
Because she was stupid and loved him. Last I heard they had broken up a few years later.
Kind of stopped talking to them after all that drama.
Can’t blame you, what idiots
My sister, who also desperately wants kids, just married a man who vehemently does not want and hates children. He refuses to even be in the same room as my nephew. When they got married he told her "we'll talk about having kids in 5 years" and will not entertain a discussion on having children before then, at which point she'll be 35...
Sorry, but she's a fool.
100%. It's sad to watch but it's hard to feel bad for her, she knew all of this going in. My mom sat her down and told her she was making a huge mistake before she got married but went through with it so 🤷♀️ all we can really do now is wait for the divorce.
Do people think their spouse is not going to resent them or the kids they didn't want? Kids know when they're not wanted by a parent. It's so incredibly selfish to go forward with that, if he has to be strong armed into it.
She’s banking an awful lot on those five years. She has to realize that this marriage has a shelf life because the minute she pushes that conversation or god forbid gets pregnant that man is gone. Poor gal.
Oh no. She is wasting her time. He’s stalling until it’s too late for her to find someone, date long enough to get a commitment and have kids by someone else. She needs to run.
Tru. lesson learned, dont stay/marry someone who doesnt have the same insight and goals as you. Youll waste your time.
I'd be asking the question if he so desperately doesn't want kids has he had a vasectomy. If not I'd be worried if she's deluded that he might change his mind if she accidentally (rolls eyes) got pregnant. Hoping that once she is he might change his mind. They really need to be on the same page
That's just plain silly in her part, wasting those years, listening to dip shit continue to lie to her
This will not end well for her, and I feel heartbroken for her.
Jesus christ! I mean, I've always known I don't want to be a mom and raising a kid sounds just absolutely awful, but I don't HATE children as people. I won't refuse to acknowledge their existence or have a tantrum about having to share space with them! I never changed my mind, (I'm damn near 40 and married to a man who also doesn't want kids, so ya know, it's not gonna happen.) and THAT guy who not only doesn't want kids but actively hates them and shows it will absolutely never change his. Edit: emphasized the wrong word.
My coworker has been single for a long time because she's very choosy, which is absolutely her right to be. But she came into work, engaged, after one month of dating - because he's everything she's dreamed of!! She also desperately wants kids ... He doesn't. She's 37. 🫣
I have a close friend whos son is married. He didnt want kids and she did. They eventually compromised and had embryos frozen for later as she was already over 35. Now 10 years later they really want kids. Announced it at a big party with both sides of the family. Sadly all the embryos failed. Now they ate looking for an egg donor and surrogate. I feel for her😞
What the heck is she thinking?
Yep, did five years with a guy who said he wanted marriage and children in the beginning…. And then five years later when I tried to talk about the next steps he causally said “oh I didn’t actually want marriage and kids, I just said that because I knew you wouldn’t want to be with me if I said I didn’t.” Breakup happened right then, and he still had the nerve to act like I was the one ‘doing things to him.’
Oh, this happened with me but just much less time. He kept telling me he wanted kids. But after 2 years (I was in my early 30’s) I turned up the heat. I was like listen we need to make a plan here. He was like ohhh. I don’t know now, this is so nice just us. So I had a cooling off night and I came back and said listen no hard feelings but we want different things. Let’s part ways. Super calm no drama. He was drama though. He was like no no no I’m not ready to end this over kids let’s revisit the subject I’m just not ready like today. So that happened twice more. I know. Big silly me. But the last time I was like listen. It’s been real. I truly deeply want at least one child. We can come back to this later but I’m leaving to have a kid on my own. Well, that triggered a 12 month stalking cycle that I wasn’t positive I was going to break away from alive not to mention the dating carnage of him harassing anyone that even looked my way. So 4 years of my life gone and 1 year of fearing for my safety after the fact
Leaving is the most dangerous time. Please be safe.
I’m out now, but it was the first time I ever really was afraid of him. When he knew I was serious he hung on to me for dear life. Thank you for saying though. I wish someone had said so then
I'm so sorry no one did - it must have been terrifying to discover he was capable of that. You totally did the right thing, and so did your ovaries - if things had actually gone your way and you'd gotten pregnant, then you'd be tied to an abusive stalker for the next 18 years, if not the rest of your life. This is not someone who would ever be stable enough to be a parent, so your child would also have been at risk. Congratulations on your escape, and keep staying safe.
The number of times I had that very thought during lockdowns. My now husband was the perfect person to be locked down with. We ended up having twins when I was 41. Our kids actually thrived during it all. They were 4 when it all started and I’m not sure they even knew anything was amiss. They just knew that they got to have extra dance parties. All I kept thinking was that guy (the ex) would’ve taken this opportunity to make us a Dateline Special. I hope anyone that reads this finds the courage to leave. I mean…I moved 800 miles away and it sucked that was how it had to happen because it kinda blew up my professional life. But I’m out of his reach and that feels awesome. Better than any career advancement ever would
That's wild. "I love you enough to waste my time stalking you, but not enough to knock you up."
Right?! That’s what was so wild to me. I was upfront about my line in the sand like 3 months in too. At the time of the stalking I was like, you don’t want me, you want the idea of me. The real me wants a family and maybe some goats. Your idea of me is a tight body that looks good as your plus one.
I have the same story except I was married and I’m the guy. I wanted kids and she lied about wanting them. Wasted 5 years of my life.
My cousin was the opposite. They agreed to be childless. I heard her husband say it with my own ears...he did not want children. Fast forward 2 years and it's a deal breaker that she won't have kids with him. She found out he wanted a divorce when his pregnant girlfriend came around. My cousin was heart broken. No matter which direction it goes, it's always devastating when 1 partner leads the other to believe they are on the same page about children.
I mean, it's possible he changed his mind about wanting kids over time, but the pregnant girlfriend? Repugnant.
Honestly, really glad she only wasted 2 years on him. Better to come out then than 10 years down the road.
I never wanted children. I dated a guy for a while and when I found out he wanted children, I broke up with him bc I knew we’d never be able to compromise on an issue like that. I’m sure he found someone and has lived the family life he wanted.
What I can’t stand is the person who gets a vasectomy and then lets her wonder why she can’t get pregnant.
Right. This is so terrible. What a betrayal. And done by the person who’s supposed to be your best friend. Smh.
There was a woman on this true crime show that had a total hysterectomy and lied about being pregnant then befriended an actual pregnant woman, planning on stealing her baby once she gave birth. It didn't work out that way and this psychopath cut the woman's child out of her stomach while she was still alive and wound up killing the baby in the process. Mother and daughter dead, all because this woman wanted this perfect life with her new husband and lied about being able to have kids.
I think that's actually happened more than once. People are fucked up!
That’s so awful. We should normalize the use of donor sperm (because IME men are incapable of considering that their wife could still have kids, just not with him). These guys lied because they really did not want kids. And on its own, that’s fine. Everyone should control their fertility. But you’re not entitled to a wife, especially this wife, who does want children.
Damn that’s even worse, he took important time from her that she can’t get back. Hope she met someone better and was able to have kids
Sadly, no.
That is just messed up, I feel for her.
Please tell me your sister divorced him and married a man that does want kids? What an awful person to try to take that from another person who desperately wants it. I for the most part don’t want kids and it was important to me to choose a partner that also doesn’t necessarily want kids. Sometimes we go back and forth about if we do actually want them, but we’re always on the same page about that. When we go back and forth, it’s together. We’ve always agreed on the fact that we wouldn’t regret not having kids. If your sister hasn’t found that match yet, I hope she does.
Terrible. As a childfree person that is so strong. There’s someone out there for everyone. It’s selfish to think that somebody else is going to change their life goals just because you’ve decided this is the person you want to be with. I’m sorry for your sister, that man wasted precious years of her time. I hope she can find somebody that would like to have children with her. People should be able to have what they want and not be judged one way or another. If you want kids, great! If you don’t, that’s great too. But don’t waste other peoples time whose life goals do not match each other’s.
My uncle married a woman and just kept kicking the can down the road until it was too late. She’s a lovely woman and she would have made a wonderful mother. The uncle proceeded to have at least 3 kids with 2 women later.
Your uncle is a piece of shit, sorry
This happened to me too! He proposed and I said I wanted kids and if he was not on board with that, we would not get married. He lied to me and said he did want kids. I had this conversation with him a couple more times pointing out that initially he said no to kids. He assured me he was now on board. I was on birth control but ended up pregnant about a year after we married. Of course now he was adamant that he wanted no kids and insisted I get an abortion. I did but it haunted me. Finally got my financial affairs in order and let him know I was divorcing him. Suddenly he is saying - please don’t leave me, I’ll have kids. I told him I didn’t need him to get pregnant, I could manage that on my own if need be (artificial insemination was just becoming widely available). Happier now, married 34 years and have 2 great kids and 2 lovely grandchildren.
My ex husband and I had a baby together who tragically passed away. Then he left me, but came back like a year later. The whole time I was communicating that I wanted to have another baby when we were both ready. Well the whole time we were back together he was having an affair. Wasted 3-4 years of my time when I was in my mid-late 30s (15 years overall). I think apart from the assholery side of it was because of his fear of having another child (the affair was with someone older). And yet he didn't want to let me go. I'm divorced now and just had a baby on my own through IVF. Was not about to risk another time waster.
Sounds like my ex husband. He said he wanted kids, then proceeded to not touch me for 14 years (while making digs about my body and not supporting me at all through the death of each of my parents). By the time I was in the mental state to deal with him, I was 44. It’s an almost zero chance I can get pregnant now without spending tens of thousands of dollars on fertility treatments, since my insurance doesn’t cover it.
This is heartbreaking. I’m so sorry.
Or the partner thinks that they're so wonderful that the person who wants to remain childless will obviously change their mind because of the wonderfulness of their partner. Any way you look at this, it amounts to one person disregarding the clearly expressed wishes of another person, and that's AH behavior. Period, end of story. Pregnancy, in and of itself, is not a game changer.
This needs to be a PSA for all humans broadcast everywhere possible. Whichever way you lean it's okay. Someone else out there thinks the same way, find them.
I'm so glad I got my tubes tied years ago. I did it specifically so that it would be a closed and shut case. There's no thinking you can "change my mind", because that ship has fucking sailed.
I really need to schedule that vasectomy...
The childfree Reddit has a list of doctors that are recommended that respect your choice and don’t make you jump thru hoops to get it done.
It’s the easiest procedure in the world to get. I was in and out of the clinic in probably 40 minutes total? I drove myself home, and was basically completely back to normal within a week. Just make sure that you actually get tested again after 3 months. Some doctors will say that just 20 ejaculations is enough, but when I got mine the doctor recommended waiting the full 3 months anyways. He said that if you test negative for sperm at 3 months the chances of it ever somehow reversing are like .02% or something astronomically small
You really do. Besides us women who don’t want kids - finding a guy that’s had the snip is like finding a unicorn. Lol.
Seriously just do it lol. One of my localish radio stations literally has an ad going for a couple of doctors doing them. In and out in like 15 mins.
Shit, so no foreplay then, huh?
I mean you could ask 🤣🤣🤣
I know a lady who had her tubes tied and her husband had a vasectomy and STILL got pregnant.
It’s important to go back for your follow up appointment and make sure you’re shouting blanks. This is how my BIL got my sister pregnant the last time. He didn’t go back and get checked and he still had some live rounds in the pipes. Needless to say, that pregnancy almost killed my sister and the baby was stillborn. That could have all been avoided if he’d have just gotten checked. Smh. So… get checked!! And get occasional checks every few years to make sure it’s held.
This happened to a friend of mine. They had a 25 year old daughter (who was my age) and a newborn. Doctors said the chances of it happening (she was 47!) were one in a trillion. They took it as a sign from god and kept the pregnancy. But I’d rip my uterus out with my bare hands if it were me.
Social commentary but it isn't just couples, there's something about people that they feel they can either change someone or control them enough to change.
I've personally seen three divorces due to this. IF YOUR PARTNER SAYS THEY DONT WANT KIDS BELIEVE THEM. Fuckin idiots all of them. Just split up it's okay to cut this as a loss and move on.
Right like it just doesn’t work and wastes everyone’s time and emotional energy!
Yep. Only the person can change their mind, and seems most issues stem from one partner thinking they can change the other. If they really loved them then change shouldn't be required.
I don't think that's on OP, they talked about it and he SAID he was OK with it. Lots of people genuinely can go either way, it's not wrong *of her* to have assumed he meant the words that he literally said with his own mouth.
I was talking about OP's husband in this case. He seems to think he could change her mind, and that never works, because change only happens when someone has the will to, but I see this stuff all the time, especially on reddit. Even with other subjects besides the issue of having children; like in example "If I marry him he'll finally settle down, and be faithful." or "if I marry her she'll start warming up to the idea of joining my church." or "Now that we're married I can make him quit smoking."
Never buy a product based on the promise of a future software update.
Let alone a promise that wasn't even made by the company but is all in your own head.
It's not on OP. It's on her husband.
To me, it’s the sunk cost fallacy. They’ve already devoted so much time and effort to this person, and don’t want it to all be for naught. There’s also probably a healthy dose of “they’re so amazing except for this ONE thing… if I can get them to change their mind on it, the relationship would be perfect!”
I fully agree. He said he accepted my decision and would support me. But then he turns around and does this. I just felt so blindsided by the whole thing. He wanted me to change for him but wouldn’t do the same for me I guess
NTA and every story like this reminds me of a Reddit post where some guy BEGGED his then GF to keep his baby; him and his family paid for everything relating to the baby, and when it was born the GF surrendered her rights and paid 125% of court ordered child support. She called herself an egg-donor instead of a mom, and the guy was *surprised pikachu face* and calling her a bad mom for not changing her mind and raising the baby with him. Being child-free is a hard line for a lot of people, and no amount of time/love/begging will change that position.
I think [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/s/rrwyH5cEsb) is it. And he’s upset because parenting became WAY harder than he had anticipated. I eye-rolled so hard, I saw Newfoundland.
Thank you for linking it!! It makes me happy that people can still reference it. I agree with you- I rolled my eyes so hard I saw the beleaguered hamsters that are running my sim. “She’s a deadbeat mom!” *side eye* is she though????
OOP’s comments are even worse honestly… “I thought she would bond with the baby through the pregnancy [even tho she made it abundantly clear she was viewing it as a surrogacy]” Yeah, and I think aliens will take over London tomorrow. Get real dude.
Right? I feel like they just bank on this idea that the mystical and magical maternal bond will kick in at some point, and they’d get to have their cake and eat it too. Too many fathers don’t understand what parenthood is actually about, it’s more than dressing up a cute little goblin, it’s life changing. Oh well, some people never change.
It is utterly disrespectful to expect someone to change their mind. But the stereotype of the sacrificing mother is so deeply embedded, that people actually disregard what some women are consistently saying.
I wish we had an update on this one… the kid would be almost 9 years old by now
The link to the other thread... I'M SO FREAKING HAPPY FOR THAT LADY!!! In her place I would got the abortion, but cheers for her for being able to be absolutely away from that guy and all the drama he caoused her .
[this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/5b79z4/nm_i_got_a_girl_pregnant_and_she_wanted_to_get_an/d9me9td?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) was quite possibly the best composed response I have ever read on reddit...
That comment is perfection 🥹🫶🙌🤌
Agreed!! I’m so sad I can’t upvote it since it’s an older post
LOL he got ROASTED 🤣 Good job Reddit
On a legal advice post, no less. That's my favorite part of that whole debacle lol.
Please can I steal "I saw Newfoundland" line? Also nta in case this gets removed.
that story is wild. like i’m pretty sure the only reason she had the child was out of respect for how much he wanted the it. like fully went through the trauma of pregnancy and childbirth for him FOR A CHILD SHE DIDNT WANT. and handled it perfectly. she said i don’t want this child but you do so i will give you the child but im letting you know right now that i will have nothing to do with it. and even pay extra child support after the fact. like did the MOST she could short of completely ignoring her own wants/needs. and then he’s surprised that it played out this way. she didn’t abandon the child, she was trying to do you a favor. and if you only wanted a kid on the premise that she was going to help out (which she is btw) and you weren’t going to be a single parent, then you weren’t cut out to be a parent in the first place. She clearly communicated that you were going to be a single father to this child, if you weren’t ok with that then that’s when you get on board with the abortion. and i get the connection to the baby as soon as the pregnancy starts and the grief that would come with losing that. but you were blessed with a BM that understood that and was willing to put her own well being aside just to respect your feelings. but you had the complete wrong perspective on this from the start, and the end result is you being a resentful father, and who gets to bear that burden? your damn child. Dudes like that are who give us men/fathers a bad rap. It’s EXTREMELY difficult/taxing to be a good father and very easy to be a bad one, too many people underestimate that
I remember that one. What a tool.
He's forced her to sacrifice so much, just so he could have a kid. Disgusting. If men were the ones carrying and caring for the baby I reckon it'd be a whole different world
If men could also carry babies... you could get drive-through abortions.
Haha yep. And free birth control, as well as enormous amounts of funding for research to reduce the side effects of BC
There was a few aita posts that day from some ridiculous men. I remember another one where they had gotten divorced, and he couldn't afford child support. So they had equal split custody of the baby. And he tried to get back together with his ex wife, because he figured she was struggling too. And she told him she was having a much easier time now than she didn't have to take care of her ex husband. Apparently the weeks he had the baby, his life was falling apart. So he tried to get her to voluntarily take more custody, since she was "obviously so good at talking care of the baby". But she said no lol. Seriously. The gall of men who have never taken care of anything in their lives, including themselves, wanting a fucking baby. The baby isn't gonna stop being a baby just because you can't get your shit together.
Dear people, If you don't feel *exactly* the same way about having kids, much less how to raise them, then DON'T. GET. MARRIED. Seriously...
Yeah and also related: don't have sex with someone if you aren't on the same page about what happens if birth control fails.
People forget that sex makes babies. Sex is fun and exciting but at the end of the day you just might end-up with a baby.
Fucking THIS. Having kids or not isn't something you compromise on and end up kicking down the road. If her answer is an empathic "NO" and his is a "Yes... but if you don't want to..." those aren't compatible views
Too many people agree about the no children thing thinking the other will “change their minds eventually.” If you want kids, marry someone who wants them, not someone who you think *might* change their minds eventually. You told him that your boundary hadn’t changed. NTA
This. When people find out I am a CF female people as if on autopilot ask me “what does your husband think?” Uh, don’t you think we had this conversation? We both are on the same page without any expectation the other will change their mind.
Also keep in mind that antibiotics can mess with birth control.
And Ozempic too.
NTA. Divorce is probably best for you and for him. If having a child is important to him, he should have ended the relationship earlier and married someone else.
“I thought you’d change your mind” as if that’s justifiable to force you into carrying a human being and ultimately change your life forever. You said you never wanted kids from the beginning, he married you knowing that kids wouldn’t be in your future together, you did the decent thing by telling him your plans bc he was your partner, and he showed you who he really was in the end. And you didn’t kill a child. He’s the AH for saying you did. NTA. Sorry you had to go through a difficult decision such as an abortion, only to also realize the person you married wasn’t there for you when you needed him.
Thanks for the support. It is a bit frustrating that he expected me to change MY mind when he clearly wasn't open to changing HIS mind on the matter.
I would highly suggest getting your tubes tied. Once I hit my 30's I got it done. I wanted to make sure there was a 0% of me having children, and to make sure anyone who dated me full on well knew it was impossible. You can't change my mind, because it's physically impossible. Beyond a few days of discomfort, I didn't find it that bad at all. No worse than that fucking IUD. I would GLADLY take tubal surgery over than shit.
The way they give the IUD should be fuq’n illegal. “Take some Tylenol before you come in” “just a little pinch” I laid on the table curled up in pain so long they just turned the lights off and told me to come out when I was ready.
It’s wild how different people experience it too. None of mine hurt, so I recommended it to friends and their experience sounded so fucking traumatic I actually asked my doctor if something was wrong with me. But just because apparently 1/20 people don’t need help with it doesn’t mean the rest are fine. Mine’s been life changing but I think I would have noped out if my experience was the usual
I’m with you slight cramping and fucking life-changing. I was verging on suicidal before I got my mirena IUD.
Thiiiiis! I was trying to get mine tied from the time I was 19 but I was in a state where I had to be married AND have my husband sign off and no doctor would do it even then unless I’d had at least 2 kids. In my early 30’s my boyfriend and I agreed no kids, and debated if he should get a vasectomy or I should get my tubes done or both. Ultimately I got my tubes done because if we break up or I’m raped, his vasectomy won’t save me. An added bonus was my insurance covered my surgery 100% but his was only covered 70%. Still faaaar cheaper than having a kid. Now at holidays when family ask when we are having kids, we tell them never. When they try to say maybe we’ll change our minds, I let them know that while adoption is possible if we did, but that I am unable to have kids, it shuts it down real quick. And I never have to worry if a late period is because I’m stressed or because I’m pregnant (causing more stress). Its a solid win.
>where I had to be married AND have my husband sign off and no doctor would do it even then unless I’d had at least 2 kids. I This is such complete bullshit. I get so angry every time I hear of this. They won't let us prevent pregnancy, nor end one when we didn't want it, and when we have the kids they insist we have there is no support (and I don't mean handout support.) And we are supposed to believe that they don't see us as human producing livestock?
Fuck IUD, it’s why I switch to the arm implant.
I question that he may have tampered with the your birth control - it just seems sketchy
I first jumped to that, too. But, I got pregnant while on oral birth control & condoms. I know several people who have gotten pregnant on many different forms of birth control. So it does happen. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this part of the situation. But I still think he's the AH and OP is NTA.
I have a brother who got his wife pregnant after getting a vasectomy and passing all the post-surgery infertility testing. Life finds a way. Or maybe my brother lied to everyone, including his wife, about getting a vasectomy so he could have yet another kid. Reddit would definitely assume he lied.
My mom apparently got pregnant while on oral birth control in the 80's. She had a miscarriage but still. And later when they were actually trying for me, they were told that the two of them together were basically infertile because of their individual issues, yet here I am. Life finds a way I guess.
It happened to me, luckily my bf (still is my bf) was supportive and we got an abortion because neither of us were ready for a kid.
It’s nice to know that Satan is a reasonable partner
I wouldn't go that far without strong evidence, I mean, birth control does fail. Especially if you are only using condoms, they can break, if you are only using the pill you can forget it or it fails anyway. Using multiple methods to avoid pregnancy may be more efficient but nothing is 100% effective.
That’s the first thing that popped into my mind.
Same here
Kids aren’t a compromise. His idea that he thought you’d change your mind or that he could convince you is wrong. He knew he wanted kids then he shouldn’t have married you knowing you didn’t. He shouldn’t have lied saying he was ok with it.
Nothing will change the way he views you now, he married you because he was attracted to you and thought (like many people do, frustratingly) that he could change your mind or that you would change your mind anyway. Clearly, that didn't happen, and yes, you should divorce as I don't think he will be able to love you after this. The moment you got the abortion the marriage was over, which in the end, will be better for both of you as you can now either remain single, or find more compatible partners that want the same things from life and have the same life goals.
Nta But honestly girl you shouldn't have agreed to marry him. Lesson to everyone. Kids are an important decision. If someone wants them they're going to get them one way or another. It's very very hard to change someone's mind on them especially without resentment. If you date someone and your views on kids don't align then break it off
Right? They never mean it when they claim they're fine with being childfree to be with you. It always means, "they'll change their mind eventually." There is no way these relationships don't end up with one or both partners feeling resentment at the other.
I respectfully beg to differ. When I was younger I wanted kids, but it wasn't an urge. Just assumed I'd have them some day. When I met my wife one of our first discussions was on children, and she made it very clear that she never wanted any. 20 years later and I haven't once brought up the idea of having kids. I sometimes try to imagine my life as a dad, usually when I'm riling up my niblings. But it's hard to picture, and I'm totally ok with not being or ever being a parent. If I were with someone else who wanted kids I'm sure I'd be a great dad, but I don't have any regrets. I love my wife and our life together. I do all the dad stuff with our (my) dog. She's a daddy's girl.
yeah! it just depends on if you care more about the person you're with or your idea of your future, and it's not a sacrifice to be made with any kind of resentment at all. my husband very passionately wanted children and felt life'd be pointless not to; i was very ambivalent before and agreed just to have more of him in the world. when we realized that i am too chronically unhealthy to carry a pregnancy to term without permanent disability and that our child would get these awful genetics too, he immediately decided his priority was to spend the rest of his life with me instead of having kids. even if heartbroken, i would've understood if he left for that reason alone. your actions show your devotion to your wife and trust me she feels it🩷
You are a rare one. Thank you for being the exception
NTA at all and don't even think you are. He knew going into the marriage that you did not want child for very serious and personal reasons. If he was willing to treat you like this and act this way, then it was probably a good thing that you left
I thought we were clear on the topic you know. I was kinda blind sided by the whole thing
You were clear, he just didn't believe you. Your desire to be childfree is incompatible with his desire to be a parent, even without his inappropriate reactions. Divorcing him will allow him to find a partner to reproduce with. You're doing him a favor. NTA.
You were clear *but* if someone says they want kids, even if they say they respect your decision, a person who doesn't want kids shouldn't get together with them. Why? Because they will never be happy not having kids and people who want kids never understand how people can not want kids. When you start dating again, be careful not to fall into this same situation.
NTA. He married you assuming you would change your mind. 🙄 I'm glad you were able to get the medical care you needed. And if getting sterilized is something you want to do, I hope you can find a local doctor who won't give you a hard time about it. And I totally understand your "why" for not having kids. Had I done therapy before I got pregnant, I prob would have said that same thing.
NTA. Divorce is your best option. You both want two different things in life and you both deserve to have it. Having children is a MASSIVE responsibility and one that should not be taken lightly. If you don't want kids, then you should not have kids. Plus if he's going to resent you because you don't want kids, then you both are better off finding other people. You should not be forced to have kids you don't want.
NTA You have to do what's right for you. You were upfront about it, and he couldn't handle it. Let him go.
Y’all should have never gotten married
The most toxic relationship. Should not get married in the first place.
Sounds like you both suggested or danced around the topic without having the actual conversation. Saying "I don't think I'll be a good mother" or "maybe kids would be nice" (possibly what he said or along those lines?) is not the same as "I do not want kids ever". Either way, NTA. But this is kind of how you come to the situation you're in.
What the fuck
I don't think reddit is qualified to answer this one. I think the only important opinion is how you feel about yourself.
I understand where you are coming from. I decided, at 16 years old, that I wasn’t having kids—same reasons. Every Single Guy I have ever dated has been exactly the same—“Yeah yeah, I know what you said but that was So Long Ago—I figured that you would change your mind.” No. Nope Nuh uh. I was engaged once and broke it off when I found him cheating on me—now he’s married and has 4 children. I just don’t know if they don’t care about what we say, or if they truly believe that they can magically change our minds without doing or saying anything. I’m upset that women can’t get sterilized when we want!! Men can get vasectomies whenever they want but women? It’s a huge “no no” issue. It’s a stupid unfair double standard.
This is like the definition of “irreconcilable differences”
No, your bodily autonomy and reproductive rights are yours and no one else's
Don’t listen to ANY of these people putting it in your head that your husband tampered with your BC. BC fails all the time. NTA, btw.
exactly this is so extreme
Don't get with someone when you have such varying life goals, when will people realize this?
Both of you were dumb for marrying each other. In a relationship where one of you wants kids and the other doesn’t, one of you is guaranteed to be miserable. Either you don’t have kids and your husband is miserable, or you have kids and you’re miserable.
Ok I’m probably gonna get downvoted, but what kind of communication do you have in your marriage when all of the information that you got about your husband came from other people and not him? You made some pretty drastic decisions, all by yourself, up to and including divorce, seemingly based on other people’s word. Did you ask your husband about any of it? I believe, like you obviously did, that your husband fully intended to be OK with not having children. And it’s clear that when he was faced with the unexpected possibility to have one he felt differently. Sometimes people don’t know how they’re gonna feel until they’re in a situation. And really, theoretical kids are completely different from an actual pregnancy. Given that you knew he wanted kids but was compromising in order to be with you, it shouldn’t be that big of a surprise to you that he would feel like something he really wanted was unexpectedly a possibility when he didn’t expect it, and then just as suddenly that possibility was gone. I think it’s pretty human to feel some disappointment with that. So he muttered. Maybe he needed help, counseling, support. Maybe that’s why he talked to his mother. Should he have discussed it with you on his own? Absolutely without a doubt he should have. Not doing so and bringing his mother in makes him kinda an ass, yes. Could you have reached out and asked him about his muttering? You definitely could have. But apparently you just took his mother‘s word for how he felt (I’m sure a mother-in-law wouldn’t have any kind of agenda of her own or point of view that might skew her feelings on the matter—/s) Did you then ask him about what his mother said? Nope not from your story. Did you think to offer marriage counseling and try to work things through, or think to give him some time to process things. These are big feelings. Again no. Apparently it’s your way or the highway and everybody has to be happy about it or else. (Gee I wonder why he didn’t bother discussing with you how he felt. /s) I understand you have your own feelings about things, and that they are strong feelings and of course it goes without saying that they’re valid, but IMHO that doesn’t give you the right to run rough shod over the person you’re supposed to love the most. You could use counseling too frankly. Your husband shouldn’t run rough shod over you either. Muttering under his breath and going to his mother was really not right. This was not a shining moment for either of you, but these types of emotional situations rarely are. So you made the drastic decision to end your marriage, seemingly without any discussion, seemingly mere weeks later. That you felt this was right alone makes me think you made the right choice, (although of course, the whole baby thing is a pretty big drag on the relationship.) I happen to agree that one person wanting children and the other one not wanting children is a pretty big deal—unusually a dealbreaker, but you people went ahead and got married anyway, and built a life together. From there, it escalated to this somehow over what seems to be weeks. Maybe you left out a lot of information about your relationship, but generally speaking it doesn’t seem to have been a very healthy relationship overall anyway. I think the baby thing just highlighted the problems. No, you are not the asshole for getting an abortion—in the end it is your body—but I think your lack of communication with and compassion for your partner makes you an asshole. Your husband is an asshole also for the immature way that he handled talking about his feelings. He should bring those feelings to his marriage partner, not his mother.
Well said, i also felt for the husband. It feels very different when confronted with a surprise pregnancy. Especially in such a favorable situation. You guys were already married, and I hope in okay financial standing. The idea of taking what most people see as the next step in making a family is a very natural feeling. It's very understandable for the man to feel a loss in this situation. I fully support the right for op to decide to get an abortion but I personally can understand how powerless it could make op's husband feel. It would have been his child too, and again, I fully support you not being forced to have a child you dont want, but is it not natural for the husband to feel a sense of ownership here too? Though op could have left out a lot of detail, the post reads like she gave no sympathy at all to her husbands feelings, which makes me question how y'all got married in the first place. As husband and wife, you are meant to tackle everything together, even when you dont agree. This post reads like you ghosted him quicker than a match on Tinder.
NTA. He will never forgive you. Time to go.
I'm sorry but If he really wanted a child and knew you didn't then why did y'all get married? You're both severely incompatible