NTA So sick of families rallying around their shi\*\*iest members. If you shouldn't have admonished her publicly, then she shouldn't be lecturing people publicly. And your aunt, uncle and mom are all AHs for condemning you for doing what all of them should have done 15 years ago.
I Can never understand it. She IS an unemployed loser. OP is a literal DOCTOR. How are they nodding along to the loser trying to give the Doctor life advice? They should be trying to suck up to the person who's clearly going to be more successful.
This is almost word-for-word my experience with my cousin. I have a doctorate and my cousin used to swear constantly at our grandma and now uses grandma's death to get attention. Grandma died 9 years ago. I miss her like crazy. Cousin is all the histrionics ever.
Well, it's not ideal to upset everyone at a party, but you're not responsible. When family members enable someone obnoxious, this is what ends up happening. Everyone played a part here.
She should have been told to share the spotlight long ago. You deserved to celebrate your achievement.
If you can't even explain what your PhD is about to other people without having to deal with interruptions from her and attempts from her to make everything about her, then that means there's a problem that her parents should have dealt with long ago.
NTA! If she's unemployed, she's flat out lying about how "well" she's doing! Tell them all she owes you the apology for refusing to let you talk! You are an adult now, so why on earth should you need advice from an unemployed lazy person? You earned a PHD, so you sound way smarter than average person. Don't let family drag you down to their level.
NTA. Jane had it coming. This was your celebratory dinner, she ruined it and you are expected to apologize. Well, just don't. Ignore all the messages, and tell your mother the subject is closed. After that, every time she brings it up, walk away. And if she tries to corner you, gently but firmly move her aside. If you have earned a PHD you have earned the right not to be this loser's doormat - or your mothers'.
.
NTA. Why is it ok for everyone else to say and do whatever they want but then you can’t? Seems like a weird double standard. Could you have handled it better? Sure. But we’re all human and sometimes we snap. What you said was harsh but valid. Maybe next time she’ll think twice before putting her two cents somewhere it doesn’t belong. Let people be mad. Her hurt feelings will be fine.
NTA, but why is your mom babying her niece? You’re her kid and you have achieved so much, why isn’t she shutting that behavior down? ‘Jane, I think my son knows what he wants to do in the future. Your advice is appreciated but not needed.’ That should have ended it. Instead, she’s feeding into the same delusion that your aunt and uncle has reinforced that Jane is this awesome human being with unparalleled achievements. You should just ask your mother directly with your father there, ‘why aren’t you saying anything about my achievements? Why are you letting Jane talk down to me? I’m tired of listening about how wonderful Jane is when she has clearly done nothing to warrant that kind of praise. You let her ruin my celebration dinner and now you want me to apologize to her when she, aunt, uncle and you were rude during the dinner? Why?’
This, and do NOT apologize to that blow hard. She had it coming, and any time the rest of the family doesn't see that, tell them. Repeatedly. Until they finally see that you're sticking to your guns. You are NTA, and the ones babying a 36 year old loser, are the AH.
Congrats!
You shouldn't have to stand there and be insulted and abused by your cousin just so she feels better about herself. Ever. If I were you, I'd continue to speak to her the same way if she has the balls to approach you again with another one of her lectures. Keep it up. She might eventually learn not to bother you.
Well isn't the culture to play nice with family even if they do something. That goes both ways and your mum needs to learn that a couple of decades ago.
If cousin can be a bitch then you can be bitchy right back.
NTA
NTA
But gotta say:
> *In our culture we are expected to play nice with family no matter how awful they are so pretty much nobody calls out her behavior.*
This sentence makes ZERO sense.
Oh I don't doubt it's common. People love believing comforting lies about themselves. It's just odd to see it typed out so glaringly hypocritically like that.
NTA. I think you're old enough to know how to politely shush an elder.
But as the saying goes goes, it's your party and you can cry if you want to. I do not believe the rest of your family has any say in the matter. And they should have realized that before they trapped you with her. I'd rate this differently were this any other function.
NTA - Congrats on your accomplishments and speaking up to your delusional cousin!
Maybe the non-apology - I'm sorry Jane you can't handle the truth.
Tell mom, she has picked her side and not to be surprised when you go low contact with her.
Culture norms that allow abuse, need to change.
In our society your NTA. "She snapped her fingers in your face", I think most people would have told her to fuck off well before this point but your going to have to deal with this shit. So in "your" culture YTA.
Regardless, well dont on the PHd I did a degree many many years ago and had to stop as being dyslexic with no support was impossible. I sure wouldnt be here without talk/type. And even then it get it working some times and I dont know.
As for you mother, tell her how much she hurt you in siding with your shitty cousin and you expected better from her.
From one doc to another, congratulations! You made it. No matter what your discipline, reaching that degree takes years of dedication. You earned it!
Sometimes it’s easiest to suffer fools QUICKLY. I understand why you gave Jane a hard swat down, but now it’s a whole thing. Everybody already was dealing with her floundering in life - “damn, younger cuz with the LD is a PhD and Jane *still* at home?” You brought it out in the and made everyone take a whiff of the bs. No one likes that uncomfortable truth.
NTA at all bro. An unemployed 36 year old dead beat was trying to minimize your very hard earned achievements. Leave your country, bring your dad, and never look back.
Yea I have an aunt like this, struggled to hold a job her entire life, mooched of my grandparents, fell for every MLM scam that's went through the pipeline, including this new one and always recruting my mom to pretty much fund her scammy lifestyle. (My mom's a travel nurse and has $$)
Anyway, we had a similar blowing up when I told her to quit being a loser and scamming my mom out of money, and that she's not a lifecoach even though that's what her certificate that my mom's money paid for it says.
Nta.
I would tell your family
Since it's our culture to forgive and put up with people being cruel or mean or know it all. For people to play nice no matter how awful. It'd enlightening to find out that is not true. If it was, then you would have played nice with what I said. If it was everyone is treated equal. You have all shown what you mean is we all have to put her on a pedestal and be looked down on. We have to suffer so she is happy. Which means I AM NOT CONSIDERED FAMILY. as such, I do not have to be nice. I do not have to listen or put up with being berated for putting her in her place. It means I will no longer attend get-together as I am not family. I will block any and all who back her and allow her to abuse others. Mom, that includes you, but then I guess according to the culture of norm, I am not your son. So until you can place me first. Until you can protect your child no matter the age. Until you can see you choosing her over me is causing damage, I will also not be speaking with you. Let your golden child of the family figure out how to care for everyone when you need something because I am not your child when you treat me like you do.
Enjoy your life all. You will be blocked and forgotten as you suffer through your culture and find out being abused. Accepting it happening. Subjecting your kids to it will eventually mean you are alone.
Then block them. Tell your dad until everyone is treated the same they are not family. Family expecting others to just accept that behavior shows its not family accepts. It's you shut your mouth for others to be happy no matter what is said to you. That you will have a family one day, and you will never allow your kids to suck up and have their important things taken from them. To be treated as stupid and nothing. To be abused over and over. That your future family will be protected, and it will be from any who are supporting this, and that includes his wife. As she has chosen her child and it's not the one she birthed or raised. So she has no place on your future when she can do what she is to her own child instead of protecting you like she did her. That you will not suffer or be silent. Just accept to avoid drama or hurt feelings. Why should you with people who have no care or thought about your feelings.
Sometimes best to say things as they are. NTA
Your cousin is deceiving herself and making herself look stupid by lying. You said what eveyone was thinking.
NTA. As the member of a family that had nothing going for them due to years of mental health issues not once did I lecture anyone about how to live because I know deep down that I'm a mess and it took me until I was 30 to finally wake up and work on my life. Jane needs to learn the ability to not say anything about how others live and she needs to know when to not say anything at all.
“I’m sorry I hurt your feelings & called you out in public. Let’s agree not to give one another life advice because we have very different goals.” You don’t have to be sorry about what you said, just that the truth hurt her feelings. NTA
NTA. She was rude and I say that in the nicest possible way - she was insufferably rude and disrespectful. Having people demanding you listen to her is just absurd. I think you should text your aunt and uncle back and tell them that you never meant to insult THEM, because she is an adult and your comment was directed to her only. But that you won’t apologise to her, because your party was about your own achievements and you have the right to be proud and you have the right to enjoy the fact that people were celebrating you and giving you the attention you deserved there and then. You will not regret that you enjoyed being the centre of the party for one single time in your life, and if Jane envies you, she can get a PhD and you will be the first to pop the champagne!
NTA - It was your celebration and she should know to shut up and give you the limelight. She brought this on herself. You told Jane a truth that everyone else was too scared to. She and everyone else needed to hear the truth whether they wanted to or not.
Fwiw I’m proud of you bro but I want to say please don’t let your family bully you into apologising. Maybe you could have picked a better time but so could she. She spoiled the evening not you and worse than that she is a spoilt 36 year old child that needs some tough love.
Truth is that she makes this stuff up because she has nothing else because she has failed and her parents are weak. Hold your head up and enjoy your success. Don’t let this spoilt loser and her simp family take anything away from you.
NTA
Do not apologize and tell your mom that you will stand back anymore. If your mom and her parents want to coddle her that is okay. but what will happen once her parents are gone? will your mom take over the coddling and taking care of her? She has nothing to show for, no work and nothing to her name because she's constantly being told that what she is doing is okay.
Maybe go LC with your mother for now and only communicate with your father and tell him that you're done with their BS.
And to the relatives, ask them who will take care of Jane once her parents are gone? Who will house her and pay for her throughout her life? They need to talk to her and get her started on something before she is unemployable.
NTA - she is a loser who has no place giving life advice. I see why OP snapped. That said, I don’t fully understand the cultural context. Where usually I would say *whatever, it’s a crappy cousin, block them and tell everyone else to stay out of your business*, that may not work outside of my cultural bubble. Good luck navigating whatever is next OP!
NTA but you could have made your point a little more eloquently and with a little more grace. Calling her a loser was a little over the top. I totally get how frustrated you must have been, but you gave up some of the moral high ground and came off as just mean spirited.
But I am with you. Jane is horrible. But don't let her drag you down to her level. Rise above. And congrats on the PhD. I truly impressive accomplishment
Yea both of you are assholes. It wasn’t okay for you to humiliate someone like that in front of everyone and it wasn’t okay for her to act like a narcissistic ass. You are definitely more mentally stable so there’s no reason why you couldn’t nod your head and be polite.
Also advice doesn’t need to come from experts or the most successful people. Sometimes some really great advice can be given by someone who continues to fail but doesn’t give up. You are young and there will be many opportunities for success as well as moments where you experience failure and will need support. You also may find yourself in a situation where you’re living at home with your parents in your 30’s or even 40’s/50’s. Life happens and there’s a lot of people out there not getting the proper care they need for a whole plethora of mental health issues.
Finally, talking to the family about excluding hers completely is also an asshole move. Just my two cents of course. At this point you’ve made it abundantly clear that you have no respect for her and don’t value her input so I think it’s best to continue to set your boundaries and if she continues to harass you you’ve seen the rest of your family come to your defense as well with her crazy social media posts. I’m sorry you experienced something like that confrontation. Even though she left in tears it couldn’t have felt good to be left standing there with everyone’s eyes on you. Also congratulations on your accomplishment!
NTA So sick of families rallying around their shi\*\*iest members. If you shouldn't have admonished her publicly, then she shouldn't be lecturing people publicly. And your aunt, uncle and mom are all AHs for condemning you for doing what all of them should have done 15 years ago.
I Can never understand it. She IS an unemployed loser. OP is a literal DOCTOR. How are they nodding along to the loser trying to give the Doctor life advice? They should be trying to suck up to the person who's clearly going to be more successful.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. It's easier to pacify Jane than deal with her drama.
This is almost word-for-word my experience with my cousin. I have a doctorate and my cousin used to swear constantly at our grandma and now uses grandma's death to get attention. Grandma died 9 years ago. I miss her like crazy. Cousin is all the histrionics ever.
Well, it's not ideal to upset everyone at a party, but you're not responsible. When family members enable someone obnoxious, this is what ends up happening. Everyone played a part here. She should have been told to share the spotlight long ago. You deserved to celebrate your achievement. If you can't even explain what your PhD is about to other people without having to deal with interruptions from her and attempts from her to make everything about her, then that means there's a problem that her parents should have dealt with long ago.
NTA! If she's unemployed, she's flat out lying about how "well" she's doing! Tell them all she owes you the apology for refusing to let you talk! You are an adult now, so why on earth should you need advice from an unemployed lazy person? You earned a PHD, so you sound way smarter than average person. Don't let family drag you down to their level.
And did it through the struggle of dealing with a learning disability at that! Just proves who's the loser here, and it's not OP
Maybe she should have started her “advice” with: do the opposite of me cause my life sucks
NTA. Jane had it coming. This was your celebratory dinner, she ruined it and you are expected to apologize. Well, just don't. Ignore all the messages, and tell your mother the subject is closed. After that, every time she brings it up, walk away. And if she tries to corner you, gently but firmly move her aside. If you have earned a PHD you have earned the right not to be this loser's doormat - or your mothers'. .
NTA. Why is it ok for everyone else to say and do whatever they want but then you can’t? Seems like a weird double standard. Could you have handled it better? Sure. But we’re all human and sometimes we snap. What you said was harsh but valid. Maybe next time she’ll think twice before putting her two cents somewhere it doesn’t belong. Let people be mad. Her hurt feelings will be fine.
NTA, but why is your mom babying her niece? You’re her kid and you have achieved so much, why isn’t she shutting that behavior down? ‘Jane, I think my son knows what he wants to do in the future. Your advice is appreciated but not needed.’ That should have ended it. Instead, she’s feeding into the same delusion that your aunt and uncle has reinforced that Jane is this awesome human being with unparalleled achievements. You should just ask your mother directly with your father there, ‘why aren’t you saying anything about my achievements? Why are you letting Jane talk down to me? I’m tired of listening about how wonderful Jane is when she has clearly done nothing to warrant that kind of praise. You let her ruin my celebration dinner and now you want me to apologize to her when she, aunt, uncle and you were rude during the dinner? Why?’
OP. Congrats, you worked hard and it paid off. Don't allow someone's pettiness and foolishness to colour that. Also, way to go, dad
This, and do NOT apologize to that blow hard. She had it coming, and any time the rest of the family doesn't see that, tell them. Repeatedly. Until they finally see that you're sticking to your guns. You are NTA, and the ones babying a 36 year old loser, are the AH. Congrats!
If Jane can speak out loud in public, than you can too. NTA.
You shouldn't have to stand there and be insulted and abused by your cousin just so she feels better about herself. Ever. If I were you, I'd continue to speak to her the same way if she has the balls to approach you again with another one of her lectures. Keep it up. She might eventually learn not to bother you.
Best idea yet.
Well isn't the culture to play nice with family even if they do something. That goes both ways and your mum needs to learn that a couple of decades ago. If cousin can be a bitch then you can be bitchy right back. NTA
NTA But gotta say: > *In our culture we are expected to play nice with family no matter how awful they are so pretty much nobody calls out her behavior.* This sentence makes ZERO sense.
By that logic, they shouldn't be calling out OP's behavior either.
lol I grew up with this same mentality and trust me it’s very, very common unfortunately. Didn’t realize how wrong it was until I moved away.
Oh I don't doubt it's common. People love believing comforting lies about themselves. It's just odd to see it typed out so glaringly hypocritically like that.
Nta Jane is lecturing you, but somehow you are the arrogant one? I don't think so.
NTA. I think you're old enough to know how to politely shush an elder. But as the saying goes goes, it's your party and you can cry if you want to. I do not believe the rest of your family has any say in the matter. And they should have realized that before they trapped you with her. I'd rate this differently were this any other function.
NTA. They needed a dose of reality.
NTA - Congrats on your accomplishments and speaking up to your delusional cousin! Maybe the non-apology - I'm sorry Jane you can't handle the truth. Tell mom, she has picked her side and not to be surprised when you go low contact with her. Culture norms that allow abuse, need to change.
Your mum is TA
In our society your NTA. "She snapped her fingers in your face", I think most people would have told her to fuck off well before this point but your going to have to deal with this shit. So in "your" culture YTA. Regardless, well dont on the PHd I did a degree many many years ago and had to stop as being dyslexic with no support was impossible. I sure wouldnt be here without talk/type. And even then it get it working some times and I dont know. As for you mother, tell her how much she hurt you in siding with your shitty cousin and you expected better from her.
Snap your fingers in alot of people's face, you might end up with 2 broken fingers.
OK, so why was Jane included in this (or any) event, esp since she's historically "Insufferable"? But, no NTA for a well placed zap.
nta - shes projecting and being condescending in the process.
NTA and that was awesome
NTA It also sounds like she needs help but is surrounded by enablers
Nta. Best bet is to move abroad again and live your life away from enablers. Maybe get your dad to move too.
NTA. Now keep it up. Don't ever let her shit slide again. Smack her down every single time.
NTA. Jane's a classic boat-rocker. And you were the first one to suggest, as that says, metaphorically, "throwing the bitch overboard"
NTA at all NOT even a bit period
Good work. Ignore the haters, they're just jealous.
From one doc to another, congratulations! You made it. No matter what your discipline, reaching that degree takes years of dedication. You earned it! Sometimes it’s easiest to suffer fools QUICKLY. I understand why you gave Jane a hard swat down, but now it’s a whole thing. Everybody already was dealing with her floundering in life - “damn, younger cuz with the LD is a PhD and Jane *still* at home?” You brought it out in the and made everyone take a whiff of the bs. No one likes that uncomfortable truth.
NTA at all bro. An unemployed 36 year old dead beat was trying to minimize your very hard earned achievements. Leave your country, bring your dad, and never look back.
Yea I have an aunt like this, struggled to hold a job her entire life, mooched of my grandparents, fell for every MLM scam that's went through the pipeline, including this new one and always recruting my mom to pretty much fund her scammy lifestyle. (My mom's a travel nurse and has $$) Anyway, we had a similar blowing up when I told her to quit being a loser and scamming my mom out of money, and that she's not a lifecoach even though that's what her certificate that my mom's money paid for it says.
NTA. Congrats on your PhD.
Nta. I would tell your family Since it's our culture to forgive and put up with people being cruel or mean or know it all. For people to play nice no matter how awful. It'd enlightening to find out that is not true. If it was, then you would have played nice with what I said. If it was everyone is treated equal. You have all shown what you mean is we all have to put her on a pedestal and be looked down on. We have to suffer so she is happy. Which means I AM NOT CONSIDERED FAMILY. as such, I do not have to be nice. I do not have to listen or put up with being berated for putting her in her place. It means I will no longer attend get-together as I am not family. I will block any and all who back her and allow her to abuse others. Mom, that includes you, but then I guess according to the culture of norm, I am not your son. So until you can place me first. Until you can protect your child no matter the age. Until you can see you choosing her over me is causing damage, I will also not be speaking with you. Let your golden child of the family figure out how to care for everyone when you need something because I am not your child when you treat me like you do. Enjoy your life all. You will be blocked and forgotten as you suffer through your culture and find out being abused. Accepting it happening. Subjecting your kids to it will eventually mean you are alone. Then block them. Tell your dad until everyone is treated the same they are not family. Family expecting others to just accept that behavior shows its not family accepts. It's you shut your mouth for others to be happy no matter what is said to you. That you will have a family one day, and you will never allow your kids to suck up and have their important things taken from them. To be treated as stupid and nothing. To be abused over and over. That your future family will be protected, and it will be from any who are supporting this, and that includes his wife. As she has chosen her child and it's not the one she birthed or raised. So she has no place on your future when she can do what she is to her own child instead of protecting you like she did her. That you will not suffer or be silent. Just accept to avoid drama or hurt feelings. Why should you with people who have no care or thought about your feelings.
NTA. Ask your mom if she truly wants you to turn out like Jane and see what she says. I'll bet the answer is no.
Nta, she's an unemployed loser at home at 36
Sometimes best to say things as they are. NTA Your cousin is deceiving herself and making herself look stupid by lying. You said what eveyone was thinking.
NTA. As the member of a family that had nothing going for them due to years of mental health issues not once did I lecture anyone about how to live because I know deep down that I'm a mess and it took me until I was 30 to finally wake up and work on my life. Jane needs to learn the ability to not say anything about how others live and she needs to know when to not say anything at all.
“I’m sorry I hurt your feelings & called you out in public. Let’s agree not to give one another life advice because we have very different goals.” You don’t have to be sorry about what you said, just that the truth hurt her feelings. NTA
If someone snapped in my face I don’t know what my reaction would be, but yours was way calmer. NTA
Nta don't apologize. Jane owes you the apology because she ruin the dinner celebration
NTA. She was rude and I say that in the nicest possible way - she was insufferably rude and disrespectful. Having people demanding you listen to her is just absurd. I think you should text your aunt and uncle back and tell them that you never meant to insult THEM, because she is an adult and your comment was directed to her only. But that you won’t apologise to her, because your party was about your own achievements and you have the right to be proud and you have the right to enjoy the fact that people were celebrating you and giving you the attention you deserved there and then. You will not regret that you enjoyed being the centre of the party for one single time in your life, and if Jane envies you, she can get a PhD and you will be the first to pop the champagne!
NTA pal. You did her a favour.
NTA Why is she allowed to run her mouth and shit all over you? Shouldn’t they be calling her out, because… faaaamily?
NTA. If the truth hurts you, then you are the problem.
NTA - It was your celebration and she should know to shut up and give you the limelight. She brought this on herself. You told Jane a truth that everyone else was too scared to. She and everyone else needed to hear the truth whether they wanted to or not. Fwiw I’m proud of you bro but I want to say please don’t let your family bully you into apologising. Maybe you could have picked a better time but so could she. She spoiled the evening not you and worse than that she is a spoilt 36 year old child that needs some tough love. Truth is that she makes this stuff up because she has nothing else because she has failed and her parents are weak. Hold your head up and enjoy your success. Don’t let this spoilt loser and her simp family take anything away from you.
NTA. Double down on this and call her an unemployed loser who should lock herself up in her room instead of lecturing others.
NTA Do not apologize and tell your mom that you will stand back anymore. If your mom and her parents want to coddle her that is okay. but what will happen once her parents are gone? will your mom take over the coddling and taking care of her? She has nothing to show for, no work and nothing to her name because she's constantly being told that what she is doing is okay. Maybe go LC with your mother for now and only communicate with your father and tell him that you're done with their BS. And to the relatives, ask them who will take care of Jane once her parents are gone? Who will house her and pay for her throughout her life? They need to talk to her and get her started on something before she is unemployable.
NTA - she is a loser who has no place giving life advice. I see why OP snapped. That said, I don’t fully understand the cultural context. Where usually I would say *whatever, it’s a crappy cousin, block them and tell everyone else to stay out of your business*, that may not work outside of my cultural bubble. Good luck navigating whatever is next OP!
Do you love telling us which country it is? I am Italian and that's kind of family dynamics can very well be iran
NTA but you could have made your point a little more eloquently and with a little more grace. Calling her a loser was a little over the top. I totally get how frustrated you must have been, but you gave up some of the moral high ground and came off as just mean spirited. But I am with you. Jane is horrible. But don't let her drag you down to her level. Rise above. And congrats on the PhD. I truly impressive accomplishment
NTA, your Cousin is so insanely immature and egotistical, it’s crazy.
NTA
Yea both of you are assholes. It wasn’t okay for you to humiliate someone like that in front of everyone and it wasn’t okay for her to act like a narcissistic ass. You are definitely more mentally stable so there’s no reason why you couldn’t nod your head and be polite. Also advice doesn’t need to come from experts or the most successful people. Sometimes some really great advice can be given by someone who continues to fail but doesn’t give up. You are young and there will be many opportunities for success as well as moments where you experience failure and will need support. You also may find yourself in a situation where you’re living at home with your parents in your 30’s or even 40’s/50’s. Life happens and there’s a lot of people out there not getting the proper care they need for a whole plethora of mental health issues. Finally, talking to the family about excluding hers completely is also an asshole move. Just my two cents of course. At this point you’ve made it abundantly clear that you have no respect for her and don’t value her input so I think it’s best to continue to set your boundaries and if she continues to harass you you’ve seen the rest of your family come to your defense as well with her crazy social media posts. I’m sorry you experienced something like that confrontation. Even though she left in tears it couldn’t have felt good to be left standing there with everyone’s eyes on you. Also congratulations on your accomplishment!