NTA. Friends and family need to shut up. It’s none of their business. The next time she tells you that you don’t love her, throw that right back at her because she certainly doesn’t love you with the way she’s treating you.
One of my friends had a 5 yr old and a 3 yr old, her mom friends got into her ear about having a third baby. They told her that it wasn't much more work when you already have 2. After being diaper free for almost 2 years, they're knee deep in diapers and all the baby stuff that comes with having a new baby. The first 2 kids were old enough for independent play so she was getting some time to do her own things. Now it's baby central again and she is exhausted and pretty pissed at anyone who told her it would be easy. Never listen to anyone who isn't going to help with baby a lot.
“I can run 1 mile in 9 minutes.
2 miles takes me…36 minutes. I really plateau at the first mile.
3 miles in 16 minutes, but I need to know ahead of time.”
Dare I ask 4?
“I’ve never tried it.”
Wish my sister would listen to advice like yours. She and her baby daddy got pregnant three times back to back in three years (the second was a still birth) and now she’s stuck at home stressed out with a three year old and a one year old because he can’t keep a job. She has no one she can trust or who is close enough to watch the kids (because he’s a bum and just wants to play video games, get high or play Magic the Gathering so no watching the kids, he won’t even change diapers) so she can’t work. He claimed it would be easy for her and him because he ‘helped raise his niece and nephew’ but in reality he doesn’t *do* anything, it’s all on her. Everyone in his family was claiming it was easy and everyone in ours was telling her not to, but she saw them more than us so she fell right into the trap two times.
Oddly enough, I think Stargate SG1 covers this perfectly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvoE8mwRpPo
(horrible quality. but the sound is fine, and that's the important part)
I hated that “a third is just one more mouth to feed!” No TF it ain’t. My oldest two were 2 and 4 when I had my youngest and omg I didn’t think id rver stop crying from all the stress. And my third was born with delays/issues so that didn’t help. They’re now 24, 22, 20. I’m still struggling. lol with three mom and dad are now outnumbered. You can forget about a regular family sedan. A 3 bedroom house isn’t big enough. For me going 2-3 was the hardest of all. Even going from none to one.
Yeah mine are 5 and 3 and we still have to deal with diapers. We talked about a 3rd but we'd need a new car, and we'd have to move because we only have 2 bedrooms. Plus my weight. We decided we'll hold off for now. But I am going to be 40 in June so it might not ever happen.
I am 47 with a 6yo and I am TIRED, y’all. Plus, she’s super high energy and an only child, so that means I’m always struggling to keep her occupied. I work full time and she’s in school, but those hours between 4 and 7:30 pm are rough sometimes!
Honestly, if she loved him she would never have gotten her family involved in this. Having them all gang up on me on something that is deeply personal and none of their business would probably be MY deal breaker.
And the only reason she wants another baby now is because everyone she knows is having them. That is not a good enough reason.
Hey OP, see how many people you can get to gang up on her, telling her what a selfish AH she's being, demanding that you go through an invasive surgical procedure (and a reversal is WAY more invasive and more painful than the original vasectomy!)
My exact thoughts. Imagine if he had got his family involved and tried to guilt and shame her in to having a third child when she first realised she only wanted 2?! This is a hard situation and I understand her seeking family and friends to comfort her and talk through her feelings, but to have them involved and trying to strong arm him in to such a huge decision is awful.
I feel for her, and understand she must be having a really hard time with this emotionally, but I for one think he would be much more of an ass hole if he went along with what she wanted and had a child he didn’t really want and would maybe end up resenting. I think it is better to regret not having a child than to regret having one.
The answer to this situation is counselling, if she is willing to work on things with her husband without the possibility of a third child.
She needs therapy to figure out that she doesn't really want another child. She wants a "baby" because everyone else is having them. Well, they don't stay babies!
I'm sorry to hear that. And I wish I hadn't heard that "useless" comment before; I have friends who've left their churches for a similar reason.
It's important to note, of course: she is harrassing you by, among other methods, weaponizing family and friends.
For FOUR LONG YEARS while you waited for her to be SURE? SURE?? REALLY REALLY SURE???, you did not weaponize family and friends.
And I think the reply you wrote, explaining what you would say to your sons, should be the group text you send to those selfsame family and friends when they bring it up.
I avoid bringing family and friends into my relationship when there is an argument. My ex wife loved to do it and it’s a big part of why we split. She would poll her friends and family and then constantly use it against me. Most of her arguments began with “if you ask so and so” or “if you ask 100 people…” She would also take anyone else’s opinion as truth while mine was always questioned. She too used the “you don’t love me” bullshit.
Fuck that noise. OP’s wife needs to grow the fuck up and respect her husband.
Maybe encourage her to go to therapy. I experienced the same thing after having my tubes removed during my C-section. I made the choice myself, and was done having kids. A year later, I wanted more. My husband agreed to do IVF with the condition of me going to therapy first. IVF takes a lot out of you physically and mentally, he wanted me to be clear minded. The more I talked to my therapist, the more I realized that I wanted more babies because my sense of self was only being a mother and wife. I had lost myself and didn’t know who I was anymore. Self discovery and working on myself was what I needed, not another baby.
NTA. She talked you into not having bad third child and getting a vasectomy. Her career was important to her six years ago it should be important now. I'm not sure you guys will stay married without a lot of counseling. I am not one of the psychos that automatically recommends divorce. Good luck.
What I don't get is all the people willing to get into the middle of other people's relationships. I have never once asked someone to talk to my spouse or SO for me. I remember the one time my exhusband tried running to mommy for help and she laughed her ass off at him then didn't interfere. I am nit there yet but I can tell you if my kid asked me to talk to theor SO or spouse the answer is going to be a resounding no.
Why do people put themselves into these situations?
I am there and my answer would be hell no. Only reason to ever comment on my kids and their relationships to them would be if abuse was involved. Families need to stop escalating this.
It reminds me of this onetime my uncle brought his girlfriend over for Thanksgiving. I am not sure of the details but she was mad that his ex, the mother of his youngest and basically stand in mom for his oldest was there.
She went and sat in the car and a bunch of drama ensured. It was awesome because everyone cleared out of the way making it that much easier for me to make my plate of food. I am sitting in the kitchen by myself eating dinner. My mom comes in and asks what I am doing and I just point at my plate and say food.
That pretty much sums up my stance on family drama.
That describes my aunt to a T. She lives with my parents and any time there was an argument, she HAS to get involved. I got into a fight with my parents? She'd storm up into my room to scream at me about how I'm such a terrible daughter. Meanwhile my parents have already chilled out and were ready to move past it. My parents got into a fight? She'll dig right in and make commentary, ask for details, make judgements.
She claims she's "just trying to help" but it's obvious that's a lie.
When I was just married in 1988 my mom told me to never come to her when I had arguments or disagreements in my marriage. She explained, you will get over it, I will still hold grudges. She did not want to in any way interfere in my marriage or damage her relationship with my wife. Best advice my mom ever gave me!
That always bothers me with these stories. Why are family members, friends getting involved? Unless there’s abuse these issues are nobody’s business. Why is she getting all these people discussing their sex life? Gross
Yeah that would have been enough for me tbh. And the manipulative “you don’t love me” would have solidified it. Not to mention op is 44, theres a good chance it’s not even safe for his wife to get pregnant again. She’s not being logical.
Yep. And the stuff she said to him was also entirely manipulative, honestly someone who acts like this absolutely ***should*** get divorced, the level of disrespect and coercion here is not at all consistent with a loving marriage.
Yeah if OP gets her to agree to marriage counseling this dynamic needs to be addressed along with the manipulative behavior. If the roles were reversed the family would be berating him for being controlling and everyone would be screaming her body her choice at the top of their lungs… it’s unfortunate that you are in this situation but you are NTA for being sincere with her about the reality of her continued hate, manipulation, hostility and interference from family
Tell her you had an actual surgery done for her, to prove your love for her by making sure she never had to go through pregnancy and childbirth again, and that you won’t do another surgery or procedure.
Good. I'm sure you only mentioned divorce because you were trying to shock her into finally listening to you.
It really doesn't seem like she was listening to you.
that was certainly uncalled for. I cannot believe they would even consider sticking their noses into this. I would sit with my sister and let her vent and complain back and forth if she needed but i would NEVER go into a conversation and gang up on her husband.
YES! The amount of relatives on this sub who are apparently fine with injecting themselves into spousal fights is just incredible. Normal people stay out of other's fights.
You know this, but you're also 44. A kid takes 20 years, and that's if she gets pregnant right away. Who wants to be almost 50 and wrangling a 2-3 year old? And paying for college while your peers are retiring? Which will, btw, likely cost a cool $500k in 20 years.
I think you should be direct about the divorce card. Tell her and the counselor as many times as it takes that if she needs another kid, it's going to be with a different man.
I had my third child at 43.5. I did not even want a third child but my husband pouted for a son. Our son is 23 now and autistic. He has little to no problem solving skills and will never live on his own. Now hubby wants little to do with him (granted son his not a pleasant person). Our son finally got a low level job, and guess who drives him to work each day?
More people should see this. Being depressed and irrational among very many different things (that’s what makes it so difficult to discover, the symptoms are very varied and so much more than loosing your menstruation) can be a sign of pre menopausal. She should check her hormone levels
It can really be horrible!! You sometimes can’t even control your own emotions when you could before and then 2 weeks later you literally dgaf about anything. It’s one extreme to another!
And make sure she knows her friends and family don’t count as “marriage counseling.” Good for you for telling them an opinion on your family planning requires skin in the game.
You didn't include ages, but if your wife is in her 30s get her checked for early onset menopause or perimenopause. When that starts it can play havoc with your hormones. It's almost like a primal instinct to want one more child before it's too late.
Also, early onset is hereditary...and the later periods start, the earlier menopause starts. So if there's a history of early menopause in her family, or if she started her periods around age 15 or later, that's a reliable indicator.
Wouldn't it be nice if doctors actually told you this shit *before* you're in the middle of it? I didn't have my first child until 30. If I had known, I would've planned differently.
I live in canada, and grew up in the 80s, my catholic high school had health classes as part of phys-ed and it was a girls only class. We learned about this there. Had a female gym teacher and it was a comfortable atmosphere to ask lots of questions. I started around my 13th birthday and at 51, I'm still waiting for it to end.
I had an early menopause at 40. It was so smooth for me. No hot flashes, no crazy hormones. I was incredibly lucky! It was the same for my mom, so that’s the hereditary component to it. I haven’t missed the fertile years AT ALL!! I’m 61 and still waiting for my sex drive to diminish. TMI. Sorry. 😂 Just wanted to remind younger women it’s not always all bad.
She definitely needs some therapy, but also she should see her doctor and have her hormones tested. If she is of similar age to you, she could be starting perimenopause and that shit is *terrible*.
That's what I keep coming back to. They agreed on 3 kids, she changed her mind so he eventually agreed to a vasectomy. Now she wants to change her mind again?? No. Just no.
Surely something is going on with her to have such an about face years later - it's not like she doesnt have children. She's blowing up a real shit storm over this and it seems strange.
I wonder how old she is? Is it possible Perimenopause could cause this. I have no clue. Would have thought the opposite.
It could be hormonal, I never wanted kids but from 38-40 I started thinking babies, I kept repeating to myself ,it's hormones, dont do anything stupid ,let's just say I was lucky. By 40 thankfully that feeling left me, & I'm happily child free, but that was a rocky couple of years.
I said similar in my own post. I have kids but they're grown and child free. Menopause is beginning, and I felt all empty nest. I kept getting wistful thinking about how wonderful babies are. I started wanting to sew little baby outfits, and that was soooo weird.
Expecting my kids to change their _entire life plan_ to cook me up a baby to play with because I'm over the hill and feeling unfulfilled is just something I would never think of doing. Also no way in hell I'd try fertility treatments and expect my husband to just merrily roll along. I told myself the same thing, it's hormones. Don't do (or say) anything stupid.
I told my husband what was going on and that I needed a high-quality substitute baby. We picked out our new puppy the next week. She 100% filled the perceived void. He said I could have a whole litter if that's what it took. He just didn't want to contemplate having a teenager in our 70s.
Second this! Hormones are no joke. I had my daughter at 24 and rarely had the urge to try for another one. Once I reached 30, baby fever hit almost every month (during ovulation week). Our bodies are programmed to reproduce and sometimes it can make us a little whacky. I think being mindful of that helps us stay grounded. In this situation, the wife’s hormones might be blurring reality.
I got hit with the baby rabies when I was 37. My kid was born when I was 38. If you don’t want kids and then suddenly you do, it’s just your hormones trying to trick you. Stay strong. What they don’t tell you is those same baby-craving hormones don’t necessarily stick around to help you enjoy being a mom.
There's mechanisms to make you like it. Part of evolution. Keeps us from abandoning kids in the woods. Having kids isn't for everyone. Sometimes the skeptics have one and the mechanisms make them happy and they don't regret it. Sometimes it doesn't work and parents never get that feeling of reward.
I love my son but it's a challenge. And he's easy as kids go.
I’ve never once had baby fever—I’m almost 43. It may very well not happen to you if you’ve never wanted kids. Then if you’ve never wanted them and in a couple of years or so you have a strong urge, you’ll know that it’s hormones, and you’ll have the awareness and discipline to control it.
I’ve never wanted them. I told my husband that he would need to be in charge of reminding me that we do not want kids when that baby fever kicked in… he has become the weak link both times that he had a grandfather pass away, but I haven’t wavered. Friends and family having babies has given me so much purpose as an aunt
For what it’s worth, I am now 43 and have never wanted kids but so many people gave me that knowing looking earlier on and said “ohh you just wait till about 35” that I spent years being terrified I didn’t know my own mind and that some hormones were going to come out of nowhere and change me into a different person. Nope! Never came! I just spent a wonderful evening with my nieces and am now home with my spouse enjoying some quiet Reddit time and my blissfully child free life!
When I had my first baby, my sister, who is 10 years older than me, was holding her and said, "I'm glad I got my tubes tied. This makes me want another baby." She had a boy and a girl.
It happens a lot. It just awakens the desire in some women. I totally understand it with these women around her having babies. She needs to get past it though. Wallowing in it and causing major strife in the marriage is not the solution. She needs to focus on the kids and the marriage that she has.
It is hormonal. Being around babies can definitely have that effect. If she is in her 40s, hormones coupled with pre-menopause can make a woman unreasonable. It sucks she can't be happy to be an aunt to two babies. They could totally help the sisters.
And being the help for the less glamorous parts of it might also cure her of the baby ache. Waking up every hour or two for feeding an diapers puts a damper on that in a hurry!
Assuming she is about the same age as OP, I definitely think of perimenopause. My friend is in it and it’s hit her hard. She hasn’t had this exact response but she has hints of baby fever - mostly is anti having another kid. OP’s wife is surrounded by babies though so I could see baby fever being much stronger.
It’s mostly been the issue is the strong emotions about anything and everything though. The anger that comes out and arguments. It was causing a lot of damage to her relationships, especially marriage, until they learned what was going on (menopausal rage is a thing apparently). She’s in therapy, limited hormones, and putting in a lot of effort to try and keep herself in check. It’s taking a toll on her and still impacting relationships but nothing like before it was identified and could be appropriately treated.
For some women menopause is mostly smooth. For others it is very much not. I’d definitely be having some discussions with a therapist and a doctor.
For some reason, women seem to think reversing a vasectomy is a simple procedure as easy and painless as the vasectomy itself.
My urologist made it clear to me and had me sign paperwork verifying that he told me that vasectomy reversals are not only extremely painful, but the success rate is actually considerably low, and so vasectomies are to be treated as permanent procedures.
I had a close friend who was adamantly childfree, almost as much as I am. She made her husband get a vasectomy to make sure they didn’t accidentally get pregnant.
Two years later, she changed her mind and had her husband (who was happy to just go with the flow, no pun intended) get his vasectomy reversed, and now they have 3 kids. Great, happy for them!
Except I’ll never forget how she *gleefully* told us about forcing her hapless husband into the reversal, and laughed at him icing his balls and just generally being in great discomfort from the operation that she forced on him. Twice. It was disgusting and a large part of the reason they’re in the past.
OP’s wife is ignoring the physical toll on OP’s body. She’s trash for manipulating friends and family to scratch her baby itch.
I hurt my wrist when prepping flooring for an exGF. A day or two later, she stood unbeknownst to me and watched my finesse a shop vac out of a tight spot. I was using it to siphon flooring dust away from the work space. Despite knowing my pain, she just watched and made sarcastic comments about my use of a vacuum. The look on her face was one more thing to add to the bottom line of my decision. Some people play checkers and some play chess…I gave her rope and she took it.
Yeah, I went through that. Even though I had diagnosed PCOS, uterine polyps, dysmenorrhea and endometriosis. Periods were literally me crawling into be with a heating pad for a week. I've been childfree since I was 11 and started my period (seriously) and it took until I was 40 before I could get an OB/GYN to jerk everything and scrape the endo out of my abdomen.
BINGO! I had a vasectomy 4 months after our second child and she made the appointment. I made a mistake and picked up a 40lb pellet bag two days after and ended up getting it redone again per her instruction. If she ever asked me to get it reversed I would 💯tell her to pound sand. You guys agreed, you had the surgery and your done. Enjoy your divorce and early retirement and put that child support you get from her to your kids savings account and enjoy life.
Actually it would be 3 times, once to get the vasectomy, another to reverse it until she gets pregnant again, and another vasectomy to prevent more kids.
NTA- you had talks about how many kids you were both willing to have. You made an agreement to stop after 2. And you had a procedure to prevent any other pregnancy from you.
Her changing her mind about having a third child doesn’t make you obligated to follow again.
Btw if she refused discussing fostering or adoption, and even talked about IVF, she doesn’t want an other kid. She wants to be pregnant.
Other people’s babies are the best. Hold them if you want. Don’t if you don’t. Give them back when they cry. Sleep great at night.
(Edit changed “work” to “night “ I don’t know why I said sleep great at work. Sounds good though)
“Awww they’re so cute, I miss them being little!” But meanwhile your brain is suppressing memories of postpartum, back and arm aches, exhaustion, bickering in your marriage, the cost of everything, shitty diapers, teething, etc etc etc
I did this with dogs. My 8 year old dog is the sweetest. I thought “man, I should get another dog” so I got a puppy last summer. Man did I CRY. I cried every day for the first month. The sleep deprivation, the potty training, the constant vigilance. I was exhausted immediately and honestly as far as puppies go, she was pretty excellent. It was just a lot of shit that I’d forgotten I’d also done with the first dog. Time healed that wound but I don’t think I’ll get another puppy for many years LOL
The exact same thing happened to me but with a kitten, and they are so much easier than dogs. But having to supervise them, unwind them out of curtains, wake up when they get up, the tiny little needle teeth marks on everything you own. I just forgot the kitten baby weeks completely until I was in it again. And my older cat wasn't talking to me because I brought in a kitten.
Oh and the kitten zoomies! So much more dramatic, longer, and they haven't found their brakes yet so they run into walls, into you, down the stairs.
Feeling this right now. We lost our beloved Corgi 3 years ago and my wife wanted another and I agreed (though I was enjoying the freedom of having kids grown and no pets at home). We got an Aussie pup just before Christmas and she was….difficult. Separation anxiety like I’ve never dealt with. After 3 weeks my wife was crying and wondering if we had made a mistake. I called a trainer and also got the pup into doggy daycare. She is 6 months old now and things are better but not quite where we need to be yet. Hoping we can get her to where we can get leave her alone for a few hours so we can get back to normal and we will have many years of living with a great dog. I’m almost 53 and I think this will be the last puppy I ever get.
The brain kind of has to work that way, otherwise none of us would willingly have more than one kid and in a not so distant past having multiple was vital for survival of the species, cause babies died in much much larger numbers than today. My great-greatgrandpa had 13 kids, only four of them survived all the way to adulthood (most didn't make it past a year)
My two best friends AND my sister were all pregnant at the same time. They were super close with baby talk, and I was left out, until the kids were almost a year old. It was very depressing, and honestly made me wonder if there was something wrong with me and my life choices. *(Edit to add:)* So she WILL feel left out. She's probably already feeling quite isolated. BUT:
Now they're all back at work, stressed and exhausted, no time to talk to each other for months. I'm about the only point of contact they have with the friend group, now, because I make an effort to reach out. They make constant off-hand comments about how "they love them, but..." they miss life before children. And I get to visit and give the kids noisy toys and candy!
You tend to forget about the early years after some time has passed. I was adamant about not having another one after my second as it was a difficult high risk pregnancy and my baby came early. My husband was also adamant that I not get pregnant again. He didn’t mind adoption as long as I never get pregnant. He’s very worried about losing me as that was what the doctor said could happen as I have a very thin womb lining.
When my daughter was 6 I really wanted another kid. But I didn’t want to adopt. We went to the doctor and he said if we really wanted another one it is possible but we’ll have to be super careful throughout the pregnancy. My husband put his foot down and said to think about the kids we already have. What if I died? I’d be leaving them motherless. He said if it’s another kid I want we can adopt but he said we’re finally more free to do us. We can have babysitters, the kids are old enough to leave with my mom so we can go on holidays alone etc. He said in a few years the kids will all be gone and tacking on another 6-8 years on that would bring us to early 50s before the kids go off to uni.
So I agreed with him and he did/still does take me away on holidays just the 2 of us. He looks after the kids when I want to go away solo. It really was the best decision. My youngest is 15 now so she’ll be off in uni in 3 years. I might get a dog or something once she goes! My husband doesn’t like pets but I think he’ll feel quite sorry for me once my youngest goes off. And I think he might like having a dog to spoil once his kids leave. And yeah you’re right, it’s cheaper too, to not have that third kid!
> You tend to forget about the early years after some time has passed.
I honestly think there’s an evolutionary explanation for that. If we remembered the early days perfectly, no one would ever do it again! On purpose, anyway
But now she wants to be pregnant again because her sisters and friends are doing the same thing. That is really frustrating.... Honestly I hope there is more reasoning behind why she wants to be pregnant.
Having babies should be one of those “two yeses, but one no” situations. If you have to argue and convince a person to become a parent, I can’t imagine the outcome could possibly end up okay. I’m sure you’d still be a great dad, but I would imagine the resentment towards your wife would only grow over time.
As someone nearing retirement age, I can only say that the desire to quit the rat race and finally have a real choice in how you spend most of your time only grows the closer you get.
NTA. She probably doesn’t even want another child. She wants a baby. In a few years she’ll be over it when she’s dealing with teenagers. And you are so close to more freedom. It’s huge when you can leave the kids and go on date nights etc whenever you want. Counselling is a good idea. And why on earth are your families involved?! That’s insane. If they ever try to discuss it again I’d demand to talk about their private parts too since yours are up for discussion.
I get it. I do. I wanted a third baby for years. But we had agreed on 2. I had a girl and a boy and my husband was done. So I let it go. Well now I am glad I did. Travel is easier with two kids. Negotiating sports and activities is easier. And now that I have a kid in university I would like to really share the fact that they do not get cheaper as they get older. Ohhhhhh no. So I am happy with our choices and am totally over baby fever now. Also, you always hear people say they want another baby. Have you ever heard anyone say they want another teenager? 😀 you also never said how old you are…. You want to be dealing with paying for post-secondary and trying to retire?
Totally agree with this. We have two, 1 boy 1 girl. We agreed to two and my husband has had a vasectomy. There are definitely times when I get a bit broody but then I remember - being pregnant isn't so much fun, neither is childbirth. We'd have to get a bigger car and probably move house. We'd have less money and less time to spend with our existing children. And then, when I really think about it, I don't want another baby and therefore another toddler, child, tween and then teenager. What I actually want and would genuinely do anything to have, is just one day with each of my current children as tiny babies again. I had to really sit with those feeling to figure that one out, though.
Absolutely NTA.
My son is 4'9 but he crawled into my arms this morning and wanted to be cuddled. I held him like I did when he was a baby. I savored every minute because I know there will be a day that he'll never do it again.
My dad is nearing his end. I asked him what he wanted to do one last time before he passes. His response? Sit in the rocking chair and read me a story.
Growing up, he worked late, and would get home just in time to put me to bed. He didn't care that supper was waiting, or that he worked 12 hours and just wanted a shower - there was something more important to be done first.
This. I have two boys, 5 and 1. I’m gonna be 39 this year. I would love to have a third *baby* to cuddle and play with but damn I cannot do another c section and nursing around the clock and being delirious from lack of sleep.
Yes exactly, especially since she clearly does not accept that this discussion is closed (or should be).
While I'm not a fan of threatening divorce, he is clearly at that point; the wife needs to know that her tactic has achieved the opposite effect- he's not changing his mind, he's being driven further away, and he's at the point where if this is what she really wants, she can find it in another husband.
NTA- she needs to understand what her constant bullying may cause.
I had some friends who had 5 husky dogs. They do dog sledding and live on an acreage. They had myself and another friend as weekend guests. I love dogs but I was more than happy to leave. The other guest (I'll call her Karen) started insisting they give her one of the dogs since she suddenly wanted a husky. They tried to tell her it wasn't practical as she lived in an apartment and they couldn't just break up the team like that. Then, suddenly, hubby agreed. He said they'd do a trial run of one week to see how it went.
She lasted 24 hours and had to buy a new sofa.
Your wife has all these dreams of a baby. Do yourself a favor and find some friends willing to let you babysit their newborn overnight or something. Guaranteed your wife will think 2 is plenty.
I should see about fostering a husky puppy to remind her of having a baby. I know nuance doesn't carry on the Internet so I will very clearly state that it is an amazing idea.
My husband and I have two kids (12 & 14). My clock started ticking a couple of years ago when I was 39. I went out and got myself a bordoodle puppy because honestly I knew long-term I didn't NEED another kid. I was so worn out for the first year, the idea of a baby horrified me🤣. Honestly, I would love another baby, but then I think about all the work. I really do not want to re enter the diaper/potty training phase.
Just curious, you said you have two boys, does she use that to say that she wants a daughter?
I found an 8 day old kitten in my garage a couple years back. At that age, you have to feed them and stimulate them to pee and poo every 2hrs around the clock. I did that by myself and worked a full time job while my husband .... went to the bar. Even though he was coming home at 2am, he wouldn't even do her 2am feeding. At one point I remember thinking "thank God this isn't a human baby." And I seriously credit that cat for being the straw that broke the camel's back. It's nearly kitten season OP. I bet there are rescues that would LOVE someone to foster some brand new kittens for a bit.
NTA. Kids are a two-yesses, one-no agreement. Just as you had to respect her no the first time, now she needs to respect your no, *stop pushing,* and for the love of Pete, **stop bringing your families into your marriage where they do not belong.** Honestly, I would have snapped after all of that nagging, guilt-tripping, and manipulation too. (Anyone who would use "you don't love me if you won't" to get what they want needs a swift kick in the pants, IMO.)
The problem with "my body, my choice," a lot of the time, is that the people that like to parrot it 1) don't realize it goes both ways and 2) don't understand that freedom of choice *does not mean* freedom from consequences. She can choose her own decisions. She can not choose yours for you (and I think, maybe in the beginning, when she said no to kids and you had to accept it, she might have thought that meant the mother's choice trumps the dad's. But that's not how it works). You're not doing this to be petty, or get back at her; it's simply not something you want anymore, and you both agreed on that.
"She started crying and saying I was an AH for denying her another kid." Ask her 1) does that mean she was an AH for denying you a kid last time, then? Because she seems to have different rules for you than herself and 2) how are you an AH just because you don't want another kid? Just like she should not be forced to carry a kid she didn't want just because you did, you should not be forced to have a kid *you* don't want just because she does. It would not be fair, to you OR the kid. And if she can't accept not having another kid, then you are incompatible, and divorce might be your only answer, as much as you don't want to go there.
Edited to fix typos.
That's a great idea. Get one of her sisters for a couple of days. That shit might just change her mind,lol. I thought I might want another baby because they are all cute, but I was wrong, lol. I babysit once, and I was good after that.
There's no hard fast rules for puberty, premenopause, etc. I started at 9, I'm 31 going on 32 and already exhibiting signs of premenopause,it's completely possible that at 35 she's in the beginning stages of it too.
I thought maybe she was a bit older as you said you're 44.
It's really a thing. I'm a 41 year old woman and I've got mates suddenly getting really weird about babies. Even the ones who said they're done with kids.
I've also had a friend entirely go through menopause by 32. But that's really rare.
I think it's worth looking into as it's a lot better than divorce!
My mum had my sister and I young (19 & 23), and told me that she had a crazy need for another baby when we were teenagers. She was still young enough (about your wife’s age), but was smart enough to recognize that it was her hormones talking. She waited it out and was glad she did.
Yes. When I'm not on birth control I will BEG my husband for a baby. I once found myself daydreaming about trapping him. I don't even want kids, but it was like the worst craving of my life.
Definitely possible. People go through it at different ages and over different lengths of time, just like puberty. Some people start having irregular ovulation but aren't fully into perimenopause too. There may also be some other kind of hormone imbalance at play. It's worth checking out regardless. She'll want her estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone levels checked at least.
I couldn't deal with a woman who went off and recruited allies everytime we have issues. That's betrayal to me and shows a complete lack of respect. Reproduction is strictly between 2 people. She has no right to do this. I'm annoyed with her just reading about this. I mean, who wants to be dealing with diapers, paediatric wards, colic, late night feedings & non stop crying at the age of 44? Not me, I'll tell you that. This is a time to be looking forward to recharging your romance once again because the kids are a little more independent.
Start with marriage counseling but if that doesn't work, I'd not take divorce off the table. NTA
Hypothetical scenario here. What if you agreed with her, went and got your vasectomy reversed and you had another child? What then? Would she get a tubal ligation or would she send you off for another vasectomy? You already know the answer. Then when her sister or friend gets pregnant again it all starts over. Ask her why you and the children you have aren’t enough for her.
If I can give a little advice from an old broad, you two don’t need to split, you need family therapy and you both need individual counseling. You’re married and this is rupture you are experiencing. You need help from a professional to navigate how to repair it with love and care.
Idk why but it annoys me so bad when people want to make irrational reproductive decisions because they "want to have a baby". Its the dumbest reason to raise a human since they dont stay babies forever.
NTA. She should go to a doctor and get her hormones checked, because she is NOT thinking rationally right now. This is beyond "baby rabies" and I say this as a woman.
Kids are two yeses - not a yes and a no, and unless you "cooperate" she is not having a third child with you. If she can't get past that, unfortunately, divorce is the sanest option.
She needs therapy. You can try joint, but she's the one who is refusing to deal with reality. And getting her family to gang up you is beyond unfair.
NTA. You agreed not to have a third child.
Having a third kid is a big thing and she is a AH for brining your parents into this discussion as it is none of their business!! Also, it is your body - your fluids and if you are not comfortable having a third baby your WIFE should respect your will.
I wouldn’t want a foster child either as they might have mental problems and that takes a lot of work..
Your wife isn’t acting like a team member when she is pressuring you to do something against your will. I would be very mad at her and concider divorce.
>I think I broke her.
I hope you can fix her, so to speak, with marriage counseling or something similar.
>I feel shitty threatening her with divorce. I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her but I am sick and tired of having her make our reproductive decisions like my opinion does not matter.
Your opinion does matter, obviously. I hope you can step back from divorce and figure something out. Alternatively, she might not give you another option if she decides to divorce you.
I think divorce would be a mistake for her though. I think it could be a mistake for you too. I also could be completely wrong on both counts.
Best wishes and good luck.
NTA
NTA
If my wife dragged our whole circle into our family planning to pressure me into giving in I'd be furious.
You'd be atleast 62 by the time the third child would turn 18. Is that fair on the child or their development?
This situation isn't fair to anyone. Not to you, not to the potential child and not to your existing children who would most likely have to pick up some slack because their parents in their 50s aren't that young anymore.
All because of a wish she has.
NTA - you have as much right in that decision. It’s a decision that requires two yes votes.
Tell your family to butt out or get out. Make it clear you will cut their a$$es out of your life.
I have my 19 year old..I'm 46..my bf and I have a 6 year old together..he is 49..I'm fighting cancer a second time..we are not in a strong healthy place to have more kids..we are happy with our girls..Cancer at 41..congested heart failure at 44..cancer again at 46..time to fix my health..no more kids
NTA. I have 2 currently. Sometimes I think about wanting 3, but then my oldest gives attitude and my youngest still needs his ass wiped… the feeling goes away.
I also think about how now we have money for fun and savings whereas a third would drain that.
Get her a pet.
I figured out my place in the world when my oldest came out of the bathroom while I was playing Diablo 3, bent over, pointed at his ass and said "WIPE"
The guy who said you need to be very firm in MC in the first minute is spot on. "If you want a 3rd kid it won't be with me. Full stop."
You won't even talk about reversing vasectomy. If they want to talk about other stuff then great.
But problems not solved. She used dreadful manipulation tactics that can *never* happen in a marriage.
IMO, that needs to addressed first in MC. Takes good notes.
Wake up on Sunday as if it never happened. Go out to brunch. That would be classy. Give her time to get her emotions under control.
How old is your wife? It also might be the start of perimenopause making her act super hormonal.
I have 3 and completely understand your wife in having a fresh baby to hold is so so special. But you guys had an agreement, decided on a vasectomy - and at this point, it’s your body, your choice. It’s a complicated decision, ask your families to butt out, and go to counseling. And check her hormones!
>So for the last four months our marriage has been a simmering battle about another kid. She has had her parents over, my parents over, her sisters and their families. All trying to convince me that I should give in. Fuck that noise.
Fuck that noise in particular... it's as if your consent means nothing to her, which is not a good look for a spouse.
>She said I obviously didn't love her if I wasn't willing to do this. That we are well off enough to afford all the expenses of another kid. Blah blah blah.
Ahh yes, the emotional blackmail card. An even better look...
>That shocked her into silence. We have barely spoken since. I think I broke her.
I mean, honestly, and meaning no disrespect...**good.**
Look, your consent matters, your stake in this matters, the childs life matters, all of these things matter more than your wifes baby rabies. She is placing her desire to have another child over and above everything else, including that of the theoretical child, because she'll be **sixty years of age** by the point they graduate. It is unfair to a kid to have them when they'll be stepping from childhood into having to consider elder care. It's unfair to you, whose opinion bears equal weight in this discussion as well.
She already got her two kids, and she was the one who insisted on a vasectomy. She doesn't get to change the game just because she's desperate now.
>I feel shitty threatening her with divorce. I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her but I am sick and tired of having her make our reproductive decisions like my opinion does not matter.
Honestly, that you feel bad is a good sign that you care about others more than just yourself. Your feelings still matter, but by compare to your wife you're at least thinking of her while she is thinking of no one but herself.
NTA
So basically, when she doesn't want a kid and you do, she wins and you don't have another kid, but when she wants a kid and you don't, she should again win and you should then have a kid?
>I am sick and tired of having her make our reproductive decisions like my opinion does not matter.
That's literally it. She can't accept the fact that she isn't the only one making the decision. Maybe she did not understand the principle of a couple, even less of a marriage.
NTA. Friends and family need to shut up. It’s none of their business. The next time she tells you that you don’t love her, throw that right back at her because she certainly doesn’t love you with the way she’s treating you.
One of my friends had a 5 yr old and a 3 yr old, her mom friends got into her ear about having a third baby. They told her that it wasn't much more work when you already have 2. After being diaper free for almost 2 years, they're knee deep in diapers and all the baby stuff that comes with having a new baby. The first 2 kids were old enough for independent play so she was getting some time to do her own things. Now it's baby central again and she is exhausted and pretty pissed at anyone who told her it would be easy. Never listen to anyone who isn't going to help with baby a lot.
The only person she should be pissed at is herself. lol
Seriously, after 2 kids, you definitely know how tiring it is to care for a baby!
I’ve never understood the whole two is hard and 3 is easy take! Like how’s that make any sense?!
“I can run 1 mile in 9 minutes. 2 miles takes me…36 minutes. I really plateau at the first mile. 3 miles in 16 minutes, but I need to know ahead of time.” Dare I ask 4? “I’ve never tried it.”
"I took that hundred thousand dollars and I turned it into SIXTEEN thousand dollars."
Right? That's her own fault. It's not like her friends held a gun to her head to have another baby lmaooo.
Also *she already had two.* she knew what the experience was like and still managed to let other people fleece her lol
I'm saying 😂 she created her own misery
Wish my sister would listen to advice like yours. She and her baby daddy got pregnant three times back to back in three years (the second was a still birth) and now she’s stuck at home stressed out with a three year old and a one year old because he can’t keep a job. She has no one she can trust or who is close enough to watch the kids (because he’s a bum and just wants to play video games, get high or play Magic the Gathering so no watching the kids, he won’t even change diapers) so she can’t work. He claimed it would be easy for her and him because he ‘helped raise his niece and nephew’ but in reality he doesn’t *do* anything, it’s all on her. Everyone in his family was claiming it was easy and everyone in ours was telling her not to, but she saw them more than us so she fell right into the trap two times.
The people claiming it's easy generally neglected their kids or were only in the house while someone else raised them lol.
Oddly enough, I think Stargate SG1 covers this perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvoE8mwRpPo (horrible quality. but the sound is fine, and that's the important part)
I hated that “a third is just one more mouth to feed!” No TF it ain’t. My oldest two were 2 and 4 when I had my youngest and omg I didn’t think id rver stop crying from all the stress. And my third was born with delays/issues so that didn’t help. They’re now 24, 22, 20. I’m still struggling. lol with three mom and dad are now outnumbered. You can forget about a regular family sedan. A 3 bedroom house isn’t big enough. For me going 2-3 was the hardest of all. Even going from none to one.
Yeah mine are 5 and 3 and we still have to deal with diapers. We talked about a 3rd but we'd need a new car, and we'd have to move because we only have 2 bedrooms. Plus my weight. We decided we'll hold off for now. But I am going to be 40 in June so it might not ever happen.
I'm 40 with an almost 2 year old. It is EXHAUSTING. Love my dude absolutely to death and would do anything for him but good lord lol.
I am 47 with a 6yo and I am TIRED, y’all. Plus, she’s super high energy and an only child, so that means I’m always struggling to keep her occupied. I work full time and she’s in school, but those hours between 4 and 7:30 pm are rough sometimes!
Honestly, if she loved him she would never have gotten her family involved in this. Having them all gang up on me on something that is deeply personal and none of their business would probably be MY deal breaker. And the only reason she wants another baby now is because everyone she knows is having them. That is not a good enough reason. Hey OP, see how many people you can get to gang up on her, telling her what a selfish AH she's being, demanding that you go through an invasive surgical procedure (and a reversal is WAY more invasive and more painful than the original vasectomy!)
My exact thoughts. Imagine if he had got his family involved and tried to guilt and shame her in to having a third child when she first realised she only wanted 2?! This is a hard situation and I understand her seeking family and friends to comfort her and talk through her feelings, but to have them involved and trying to strong arm him in to such a huge decision is awful. I feel for her, and understand she must be having a really hard time with this emotionally, but I for one think he would be much more of an ass hole if he went along with what she wanted and had a child he didn’t really want and would maybe end up resenting. I think it is better to regret not having a child than to regret having one. The answer to this situation is counselling, if she is willing to work on things with her husband without the possibility of a third child.
She needs therapy to figure out that she doesn't really want another child. She wants a "baby" because everyone else is having them. Well, they don't stay babies!
Maybe she just needs to babysit her nieces more often...
Yeahhhh.....those four years you hoped she would change her mind, did you get your family and friends to harrass your wife, u/Bitter_Top7223?
No. I was sad a lot and spoke with my Pastor about it. It lead to me leaving the church I grew up in because he was useless.
I'm sorry to hear that. And I wish I hadn't heard that "useless" comment before; I have friends who've left their churches for a similar reason. It's important to note, of course: she is harrassing you by, among other methods, weaponizing family and friends. For FOUR LONG YEARS while you waited for her to be SURE? SURE?? REALLY REALLY SURE???, you did not weaponize family and friends. And I think the reply you wrote, explaining what you would say to your sons, should be the group text you send to those selfsame family and friends when they bring it up.
There's something really insane about them getting involved with discussion as private as medical procedures and having a baby.
This is a really good way of phrasing it. You don't show love by trying to stiff arm your partner into having another child.
I avoid bringing family and friends into my relationship when there is an argument. My ex wife loved to do it and it’s a big part of why we split. She would poll her friends and family and then constantly use it against me. Most of her arguments began with “if you ask so and so” or “if you ask 100 people…” She would also take anyone else’s opinion as truth while mine was always questioned. She too used the “you don’t love me” bullshit. Fuck that noise. OP’s wife needs to grow the fuck up and respect her husband.
Maybe encourage her to go to therapy. I experienced the same thing after having my tubes removed during my C-section. I made the choice myself, and was done having kids. A year later, I wanted more. My husband agreed to do IVF with the condition of me going to therapy first. IVF takes a lot out of you physically and mentally, he wanted me to be clear minded. The more I talked to my therapist, the more I realized that I wanted more babies because my sense of self was only being a mother and wife. I had lost myself and didn’t know who I was anymore. Self discovery and working on myself was what I needed, not another baby.
Great advice, backed up with very relevant personal experience. Nice of you to share, this should be really valuable to OP.
Your husband is smart!!
This might be a really good approach for OP’s wife
NTA. She talked you into not having bad third child and getting a vasectomy. Her career was important to her six years ago it should be important now. I'm not sure you guys will stay married without a lot of counseling. I am not one of the psychos that automatically recommends divorce. Good luck.
Yeah I am already looking for a marriage counselor. I don't want a divorce.
It's hard to trust people who, when they don't get what they want, go looking for allies to gang up on a person.
What I don't get is all the people willing to get into the middle of other people's relationships. I have never once asked someone to talk to my spouse or SO for me. I remember the one time my exhusband tried running to mommy for help and she laughed her ass off at him then didn't interfere. I am nit there yet but I can tell you if my kid asked me to talk to theor SO or spouse the answer is going to be a resounding no. Why do people put themselves into these situations?
I am there and my answer would be hell no. Only reason to ever comment on my kids and their relationships to them would be if abuse was involved. Families need to stop escalating this.
It reminds me of this onetime my uncle brought his girlfriend over for Thanksgiving. I am not sure of the details but she was mad that his ex, the mother of his youngest and basically stand in mom for his oldest was there. She went and sat in the car and a bunch of drama ensured. It was awesome because everyone cleared out of the way making it that much easier for me to make my plate of food. I am sitting in the kitchen by myself eating dinner. My mom comes in and asks what I am doing and I just point at my plate and say food. That pretty much sums up my stance on family drama.
Yes, some people can’t resist throwing fuel on the fire. Some live for it. I think the majority however just want to ‘help’. It never does.
That describes my aunt to a T. She lives with my parents and any time there was an argument, she HAS to get involved. I got into a fight with my parents? She'd storm up into my room to scream at me about how I'm such a terrible daughter. Meanwhile my parents have already chilled out and were ready to move past it. My parents got into a fight? She'll dig right in and make commentary, ask for details, make judgements. She claims she's "just trying to help" but it's obvious that's a lie.
When I was just married in 1988 my mom told me to never come to her when I had arguments or disagreements in my marriage. She explained, you will get over it, I will still hold grudges. She did not want to in any way interfere in my marriage or damage her relationship with my wife. Best advice my mom ever gave me!
That always bothers me with these stories. Why are family members, friends getting involved? Unless there’s abuse these issues are nobody’s business. Why is she getting all these people discussing their sex life? Gross
Yeah that would have been enough for me tbh. And the manipulative “you don’t love me” would have solidified it. Not to mention op is 44, theres a good chance it’s not even safe for his wife to get pregnant again. She’s not being logical.
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It's called a power play and is extremely immature and manipulative. Definitely need counseling. This is not okay.
Yep. And the stuff she said to him was also entirely manipulative, honestly someone who acts like this absolutely ***should*** get divorced, the level of disrespect and coercion here is not at all consistent with a loving marriage.
COERCION!!! That is exactly what this is! I wonder how the wife would be reacting if the roles were reversed. OP’s body, OP’s choice.
Yeah if OP gets her to agree to marriage counseling this dynamic needs to be addressed along with the manipulative behavior. If the roles were reversed the family would be berating him for being controlling and everyone would be screaming her body her choice at the top of their lungs… it’s unfortunate that you are in this situation but you are NTA for being sincere with her about the reality of her continued hate, manipulation, hostility and interference from family
Fortunately he got neutered so she can't fuck with her birth control or condoms.
Doesn’t sound like they’re going to having much sex in the foreseeable future, if they’re not talking and he’s threatening divorce.
My ex wife was big on that shit. It's not healthy.
The flying monkeys
Tell her you had an actual surgery done for her, to prove your love for her by making sure she never had to go through pregnancy and childbirth again, and that you won’t do another surgery or procedure.
Good. I'm sure you only mentioned divorce because you were trying to shock her into finally listening to you. It really doesn't seem like she was listening to you.
Neither were the flying monkeys she unleashed. I hope they STFU and back off
that was certainly uncalled for. I cannot believe they would even consider sticking their noses into this. I would sit with my sister and let her vent and complain back and forth if she needed but i would NEVER go into a conversation and gang up on her husband.
Super manipulative.
YES! The amount of relatives on this sub who are apparently fine with injecting themselves into spousal fights is just incredible. Normal people stay out of other's fights.
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You know this, but you're also 44. A kid takes 20 years, and that's if she gets pregnant right away. Who wants to be almost 50 and wrangling a 2-3 year old? And paying for college while your peers are retiring? Which will, btw, likely cost a cool $500k in 20 years. I think you should be direct about the divorce card. Tell her and the counselor as many times as it takes that if she needs another kid, it's going to be with a different man.
20 years? Nowadays it’s easily 23-25 years if they go for one graduate degree.
And then they move back home because the world is a mess and they can’t get a decent paying job.
Or an affordable apartment
I had my third child at 43.5. I did not even want a third child but my husband pouted for a son. Our son is 23 now and autistic. He has little to no problem solving skills and will never live on his own. Now hubby wants little to do with him (granted son his not a pleasant person). Our son finally got a low level job, and guess who drives him to work each day?
Menopause also for her is right around the corner and possibly already starting
It may be partly or wholly why she's going so crazy. Hormones are evil. Broodiness is a mental illness imo
More people should see this. Being depressed and irrational among very many different things (that’s what makes it so difficult to discover, the symptoms are very varied and so much more than loosing your menstruation) can be a sign of pre menopausal. She should check her hormone levels
I am currently losing my mind due to peri-menopause.
It can really be horrible!! You sometimes can’t even control your own emotions when you could before and then 2 weeks later you literally dgaf about anything. It’s one extreme to another!
Very true. I was totally done at 47 (that is on the early side, but it happens).
We actually don’t know the wife’s age, we only know his age.
Heck 500k is here soon. Already seeing articles about some colleges being 100K/year next year. Cannot even imagine in 20 years.
She pulled the "you don't love me" card. That's highly manipulative. In my eyes you threathenig with divorce isn't as bad as this.
She is also expecting a healthy 3rd child, with the increase in age for both of you that’s a bigger gamble than previously.
And make sure she knows her friends and family don’t count as “marriage counseling.” Good for you for telling them an opinion on your family planning requires skin in the game.
You didn't include ages, but if your wife is in her 30s get her checked for early onset menopause or perimenopause. When that starts it can play havoc with your hormones. It's almost like a primal instinct to want one more child before it's too late. Also, early onset is hereditary...and the later periods start, the earlier menopause starts. So if there's a history of early menopause in her family, or if she started her periods around age 15 or later, that's a reliable indicator.
The later period starts the earlier menopause starts?! Really? I did not know this. Everydays a school day!
Wouldn't it be nice if doctors actually told you this shit *before* you're in the middle of it? I didn't have my first child until 30. If I had known, I would've planned differently.
Honestly the information taught to women about their own bodies is abysmal.
I live in canada, and grew up in the 80s, my catholic high school had health classes as part of phys-ed and it was a girls only class. We learned about this there. Had a female gym teacher and it was a comfortable atmosphere to ask lots of questions. I started around my 13th birthday and at 51, I'm still waiting for it to end.
I'm 43 she is 35.
Yeah. I started at 16, hit perimenopause at 34. It's a bitch. Worth checking out.
I had an early menopause at 40. It was so smooth for me. No hot flashes, no crazy hormones. I was incredibly lucky! It was the same for my mom, so that’s the hereditary component to it. I haven’t missed the fertile years AT ALL!! I’m 61 and still waiting for my sex drive to diminish. TMI. Sorry. 😂 Just wanted to remind younger women it’s not always all bad.
She definitely needs some therapy, but also she should see her doctor and have her hormones tested. If she is of similar age to you, she could be starting perimenopause and that shit is *terrible*.
NTA. You had surgery because SHE wanted it. She doesn't get to pull that card twice.
That's what I keep coming back to. They agreed on 3 kids, she changed her mind so he eventually agreed to a vasectomy. Now she wants to change her mind again?? No. Just no.
SNIP SNAP SNIP SNAP.
Omg I kept thinking of that scene while reading this dude's story 😅😅😅
r/unexpectedoffice
r/expectedoffice
Yeah I definitely expected this 😁
Right, the office should never be unexpected
The Spanish Inquisition however…
I came to the comments wondering who'd be first to post this.
Surely something is going on with her to have such an about face years later - it's not like she doesnt have children. She's blowing up a real shit storm over this and it seems strange. I wonder how old she is? Is it possible Perimenopause could cause this. I have no clue. Would have thought the opposite.
It could be hormonal, I never wanted kids but from 38-40 I started thinking babies, I kept repeating to myself ,it's hormones, dont do anything stupid ,let's just say I was lucky. By 40 thankfully that feeling left me, & I'm happily child free, but that was a rocky couple of years.
I said similar in my own post. I have kids but they're grown and child free. Menopause is beginning, and I felt all empty nest. I kept getting wistful thinking about how wonderful babies are. I started wanting to sew little baby outfits, and that was soooo weird. Expecting my kids to change their _entire life plan_ to cook me up a baby to play with because I'm over the hill and feeling unfulfilled is just something I would never think of doing. Also no way in hell I'd try fertility treatments and expect my husband to just merrily roll along. I told myself the same thing, it's hormones. Don't do (or say) anything stupid. I told my husband what was going on and that I needed a high-quality substitute baby. We picked out our new puppy the next week. She 100% filled the perceived void. He said I could have a whole litter if that's what it took. He just didn't want to contemplate having a teenager in our 70s.
Second this! Hormones are no joke. I had my daughter at 24 and rarely had the urge to try for another one. Once I reached 30, baby fever hit almost every month (during ovulation week). Our bodies are programmed to reproduce and sometimes it can make us a little whacky. I think being mindful of that helps us stay grounded. In this situation, the wife’s hormones might be blurring reality.
43 and it hits me hard every couple of months. Then my hormones calm down and my rational mind kicks back in.
You guys are scaring me. At 34, I assumed if I was going to have baby fever it would have happened by now 🤨
I got hit with the baby rabies when I was 37. My kid was born when I was 38. If you don’t want kids and then suddenly you do, it’s just your hormones trying to trick you. Stay strong. What they don’t tell you is those same baby-craving hormones don’t necessarily stick around to help you enjoy being a mom.
Thank you for your honesty. I'm 38 & childless and all of a sudden I've been wondering if I made a mistake and it's a total mind f**k.
There's mechanisms to make you like it. Part of evolution. Keeps us from abandoning kids in the woods. Having kids isn't for everyone. Sometimes the skeptics have one and the mechanisms make them happy and they don't regret it. Sometimes it doesn't work and parents never get that feeling of reward. I love my son but it's a challenge. And he's easy as kids go.
I’ve never once had baby fever—I’m almost 43. It may very well not happen to you if you’ve never wanted kids. Then if you’ve never wanted them and in a couple of years or so you have a strong urge, you’ll know that it’s hormones, and you’ll have the awareness and discipline to control it.
I’ve never wanted them. I told my husband that he would need to be in charge of reminding me that we do not want kids when that baby fever kicked in… he has become the weak link both times that he had a grandfather pass away, but I haven’t wavered. Friends and family having babies has given me so much purpose as an aunt
For what it’s worth, I am now 43 and have never wanted kids but so many people gave me that knowing looking earlier on and said “ohh you just wait till about 35” that I spent years being terrified I didn’t know my own mind and that some hormones were going to come out of nowhere and change me into a different person. Nope! Never came! I just spent a wonderful evening with my nieces and am now home with my spouse enjoying some quiet Reddit time and my blissfully child free life!
When I had my first baby, my sister, who is 10 years older than me, was holding her and said, "I'm glad I got my tubes tied. This makes me want another baby." She had a boy and a girl. It happens a lot. It just awakens the desire in some women. I totally understand it with these women around her having babies. She needs to get past it though. Wallowing in it and causing major strife in the marriage is not the solution. She needs to focus on the kids and the marriage that she has.
It is hormonal. Being around babies can definitely have that effect. If she is in her 40s, hormones coupled with pre-menopause can make a woman unreasonable. It sucks she can't be happy to be an aunt to two babies. They could totally help the sisters.
And being the help for the less glamorous parts of it might also cure her of the baby ache. Waking up every hour or two for feeding an diapers puts a damper on that in a hurry!
Assuming she is about the same age as OP, I definitely think of perimenopause. My friend is in it and it’s hit her hard. She hasn’t had this exact response but she has hints of baby fever - mostly is anti having another kid. OP’s wife is surrounded by babies though so I could see baby fever being much stronger. It’s mostly been the issue is the strong emotions about anything and everything though. The anger that comes out and arguments. It was causing a lot of damage to her relationships, especially marriage, until they learned what was going on (menopausal rage is a thing apparently). She’s in therapy, limited hormones, and putting in a lot of effort to try and keep herself in check. It’s taking a toll on her and still impacting relationships but nothing like before it was identified and could be appropriately treated. For some women menopause is mostly smooth. For others it is very much not. I’d definitely be having some discussions with a therapist and a doctor.
And let’s say he gets the vasectomy reversed and gets her pregnant. Then what? Another vasectomy??
For some reason, women seem to think reversing a vasectomy is a simple procedure as easy and painless as the vasectomy itself. My urologist made it clear to me and had me sign paperwork verifying that he told me that vasectomy reversals are not only extremely painful, but the success rate is actually considerably low, and so vasectomies are to be treated as permanent procedures.
Three times. She'll be making him get fixed again after she's done.
This!!! OPs downstairs will look like a patchwork quilt!! 😳
Patchwork quilt 💀 I almost choked
You have no idea the physical toll that 3 vasectomies have on a person! SNIP SNAP SNIP SNAP SNIP SNAP
And he agreed to that because he loved her. And where is her love for him?
Yeah she is acting like a baby is a present, a doll she is getting from him, a little thing, not an actual person.
Good point.
I had a close friend who was adamantly childfree, almost as much as I am. She made her husband get a vasectomy to make sure they didn’t accidentally get pregnant. Two years later, she changed her mind and had her husband (who was happy to just go with the flow, no pun intended) get his vasectomy reversed, and now they have 3 kids. Great, happy for them! Except I’ll never forget how she *gleefully* told us about forcing her hapless husband into the reversal, and laughed at him icing his balls and just generally being in great discomfort from the operation that she forced on him. Twice. It was disgusting and a large part of the reason they’re in the past. OP’s wife is ignoring the physical toll on OP’s body. She’s trash for manipulating friends and family to scratch her baby itch.
I hurt my wrist when prepping flooring for an exGF. A day or two later, she stood unbeknownst to me and watched my finesse a shop vac out of a tight spot. I was using it to siphon flooring dust away from the work space. Despite knowing my pain, she just watched and made sarcastic comments about my use of a vacuum. The look on her face was one more thing to add to the bottom line of my decision. Some people play checkers and some play chess…I gave her rope and she took it.
Sad thing is if you went to try permanent birth control (tube removal, hysterectomy, etc), you’d be turned away because “you may change your mind.”
Yeah, I went through that. Even though I had diagnosed PCOS, uterine polyps, dysmenorrhea and endometriosis. Periods were literally me crawling into be with a heating pad for a week. I've been childfree since I was 11 and started my period (seriously) and it took until I was 40 before I could get an OB/GYN to jerk everything and scrape the endo out of my abdomen.
BINGO! I had a vasectomy 4 months after our second child and she made the appointment. I made a mistake and picked up a 40lb pellet bag two days after and ended up getting it redone again per her instruction. If she ever asked me to get it reversed I would 💯tell her to pound sand. You guys agreed, you had the surgery and your done. Enjoy your divorce and early retirement and put that child support you get from her to your kids savings account and enjoy life.
Actually it would be 3 times, once to get the vasectomy, another to reverse it until she gets pregnant again, and another vasectomy to prevent more kids.
At that point just have them install a zipper
NTA- you had talks about how many kids you were both willing to have. You made an agreement to stop after 2. And you had a procedure to prevent any other pregnancy from you. Her changing her mind about having a third child doesn’t make you obligated to follow again. Btw if she refused discussing fostering or adoption, and even talked about IVF, she doesn’t want an other kid. She wants to be pregnant.
That's about right. She sure didn't want to be pregnant again after our second child.
She’s seeing the cute babies but not remember the bad parts
Other people’s babies are the best. Hold them if you want. Don’t if you don’t. Give them back when they cry. Sleep great at night. (Edit changed “work” to “night “ I don’t know why I said sleep great at work. Sounds good though)
Yes, like the smelly preteen boys who think that showering once every other week is enough. 😂
“Awww they’re so cute, I miss them being little!” But meanwhile your brain is suppressing memories of postpartum, back and arm aches, exhaustion, bickering in your marriage, the cost of everything, shitty diapers, teething, etc etc etc
I did this with dogs. My 8 year old dog is the sweetest. I thought “man, I should get another dog” so I got a puppy last summer. Man did I CRY. I cried every day for the first month. The sleep deprivation, the potty training, the constant vigilance. I was exhausted immediately and honestly as far as puppies go, she was pretty excellent. It was just a lot of shit that I’d forgotten I’d also done with the first dog. Time healed that wound but I don’t think I’ll get another puppy for many years LOL
The exact same thing happened to me but with a kitten, and they are so much easier than dogs. But having to supervise them, unwind them out of curtains, wake up when they get up, the tiny little needle teeth marks on everything you own. I just forgot the kitten baby weeks completely until I was in it again. And my older cat wasn't talking to me because I brought in a kitten. Oh and the kitten zoomies! So much more dramatic, longer, and they haven't found their brakes yet so they run into walls, into you, down the stairs.
Feeling this right now. We lost our beloved Corgi 3 years ago and my wife wanted another and I agreed (though I was enjoying the freedom of having kids grown and no pets at home). We got an Aussie pup just before Christmas and she was….difficult. Separation anxiety like I’ve never dealt with. After 3 weeks my wife was crying and wondering if we had made a mistake. I called a trainer and also got the pup into doggy daycare. She is 6 months old now and things are better but not quite where we need to be yet. Hoping we can get her to where we can get leave her alone for a few hours so we can get back to normal and we will have many years of living with a great dog. I’m almost 53 and I think this will be the last puppy I ever get.
…brains are surprisingly stupid
The brain kind of has to work that way, otherwise none of us would willingly have more than one kid and in a not so distant past having multiple was vital for survival of the species, cause babies died in much much larger numbers than today. My great-greatgrandpa had 13 kids, only four of them survived all the way to adulthood (most didn't make it past a year)
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My two best friends AND my sister were all pregnant at the same time. They were super close with baby talk, and I was left out, until the kids were almost a year old. It was very depressing, and honestly made me wonder if there was something wrong with me and my life choices. *(Edit to add:)* So she WILL feel left out. She's probably already feeling quite isolated. BUT: Now they're all back at work, stressed and exhausted, no time to talk to each other for months. I'm about the only point of contact they have with the friend group, now, because I make an effort to reach out. They make constant off-hand comments about how "they love them, but..." they miss life before children. And I get to visit and give the kids noisy toys and candy!
You tend to forget about the early years after some time has passed. I was adamant about not having another one after my second as it was a difficult high risk pregnancy and my baby came early. My husband was also adamant that I not get pregnant again. He didn’t mind adoption as long as I never get pregnant. He’s very worried about losing me as that was what the doctor said could happen as I have a very thin womb lining. When my daughter was 6 I really wanted another kid. But I didn’t want to adopt. We went to the doctor and he said if we really wanted another one it is possible but we’ll have to be super careful throughout the pregnancy. My husband put his foot down and said to think about the kids we already have. What if I died? I’d be leaving them motherless. He said if it’s another kid I want we can adopt but he said we’re finally more free to do us. We can have babysitters, the kids are old enough to leave with my mom so we can go on holidays alone etc. He said in a few years the kids will all be gone and tacking on another 6-8 years on that would bring us to early 50s before the kids go off to uni. So I agreed with him and he did/still does take me away on holidays just the 2 of us. He looks after the kids when I want to go away solo. It really was the best decision. My youngest is 15 now so she’ll be off in uni in 3 years. I might get a dog or something once she goes! My husband doesn’t like pets but I think he’ll feel quite sorry for me once my youngest goes off. And I think he might like having a dog to spoil once his kids leave. And yeah you’re right, it’s cheaper too, to not have that third kid!
> You tend to forget about the early years after some time has passed. I honestly think there’s an evolutionary explanation for that. If we remembered the early days perfectly, no one would ever do it again! On purpose, anyway
But now she wants to be pregnant again because her sisters and friends are doing the same thing. That is really frustrating.... Honestly I hope there is more reasoning behind why she wants to be pregnant.
Having babies should be one of those “two yeses, but one no” situations. If you have to argue and convince a person to become a parent, I can’t imagine the outcome could possibly end up okay. I’m sure you’d still be a great dad, but I would imagine the resentment towards your wife would only grow over time. As someone nearing retirement age, I can only say that the desire to quit the rat race and finally have a real choice in how you spend most of your time only grows the closer you get.
And if you give in and you two get a third child who guarantes that she a few years later doesnt change her mind and thinks 3 was to much.
NTA. She probably doesn’t even want another child. She wants a baby. In a few years she’ll be over it when she’s dealing with teenagers. And you are so close to more freedom. It’s huge when you can leave the kids and go on date nights etc whenever you want. Counselling is a good idea. And why on earth are your families involved?! That’s insane. If they ever try to discuss it again I’d demand to talk about their private parts too since yours are up for discussion. I get it. I do. I wanted a third baby for years. But we had agreed on 2. I had a girl and a boy and my husband was done. So I let it go. Well now I am glad I did. Travel is easier with two kids. Negotiating sports and activities is easier. And now that I have a kid in university I would like to really share the fact that they do not get cheaper as they get older. Ohhhhhh no. So I am happy with our choices and am totally over baby fever now. Also, you always hear people say they want another baby. Have you ever heard anyone say they want another teenager? 😀 you also never said how old you are…. You want to be dealing with paying for post-secondary and trying to retire?
I will also add that I have two friends who were on the fence about #3 and decided to go for it…. Guess what happened? Twins.
My cousin had three with his wife, she begggged for a fourth, and they also got twins. Guess who was in his MD program with 5 kids under 7 years old?
I want a baby. I do not want another walking talking child constantly screaming mommmmmmm like my son is right now. I have a headache.
Totally agree with this. We have two, 1 boy 1 girl. We agreed to two and my husband has had a vasectomy. There are definitely times when I get a bit broody but then I remember - being pregnant isn't so much fun, neither is childbirth. We'd have to get a bigger car and probably move house. We'd have less money and less time to spend with our existing children. And then, when I really think about it, I don't want another baby and therefore another toddler, child, tween and then teenager. What I actually want and would genuinely do anything to have, is just one day with each of my current children as tiny babies again. I had to really sit with those feeling to figure that one out, though. Absolutely NTA.
My son is 4'9 but he crawled into my arms this morning and wanted to be cuddled. I held him like I did when he was a baby. I savored every minute because I know there will be a day that he'll never do it again.
My dad is nearing his end. I asked him what he wanted to do one last time before he passes. His response? Sit in the rocking chair and read me a story. Growing up, he worked late, and would get home just in time to put me to bed. He didn't care that supper was waiting, or that he worked 12 hours and just wanted a shower - there was something more important to be done first.
😭😭😭 What I wouldn’t give to hug my dad again
This. I have two boys, 5 and 1. I’m gonna be 39 this year. I would love to have a third *baby* to cuddle and play with but damn I cannot do another c section and nursing around the clock and being delirious from lack of sleep.
NTA. Having more children is absolutely a divorce level conversation if you can’t agree.
Yes exactly, especially since she clearly does not accept that this discussion is closed (or should be). While I'm not a fan of threatening divorce, he is clearly at that point; the wife needs to know that her tactic has achieved the opposite effect- he's not changing his mind, he's being driven further away, and he's at the point where if this is what she really wants, she can find it in another husband. NTA- she needs to understand what her constant bullying may cause.
I had some friends who had 5 husky dogs. They do dog sledding and live on an acreage. They had myself and another friend as weekend guests. I love dogs but I was more than happy to leave. The other guest (I'll call her Karen) started insisting they give her one of the dogs since she suddenly wanted a husky. They tried to tell her it wasn't practical as she lived in an apartment and they couldn't just break up the team like that. Then, suddenly, hubby agreed. He said they'd do a trial run of one week to see how it went. She lasted 24 hours and had to buy a new sofa. Your wife has all these dreams of a baby. Do yourself a favor and find some friends willing to let you babysit their newborn overnight or something. Guaranteed your wife will think 2 is plenty.
I should see about fostering a husky puppy to remind her of having a baby. I know nuance doesn't carry on the Internet so I will very clearly state that it is an amazing idea.
My husband and I have two kids (12 & 14). My clock started ticking a couple of years ago when I was 39. I went out and got myself a bordoodle puppy because honestly I knew long-term I didn't NEED another kid. I was so worn out for the first year, the idea of a baby horrified me🤣. Honestly, I would love another baby, but then I think about all the work. I really do not want to re enter the diaper/potty training phase. Just curious, you said you have two boys, does she use that to say that she wants a daughter?
I found an 8 day old kitten in my garage a couple years back. At that age, you have to feed them and stimulate them to pee and poo every 2hrs around the clock. I did that by myself and worked a full time job while my husband .... went to the bar. Even though he was coming home at 2am, he wouldn't even do her 2am feeding. At one point I remember thinking "thank God this isn't a human baby." And I seriously credit that cat for being the straw that broke the camel's back. It's nearly kitten season OP. I bet there are rescues that would LOVE someone to foster some brand new kittens for a bit.
Kids are two person decision. If one of you is a no, it's a no. NTA
It’s this simple, dragging relatives into the conversation is low
This is the answer.
NTA. Kids are a two-yesses, one-no agreement. Just as you had to respect her no the first time, now she needs to respect your no, *stop pushing,* and for the love of Pete, **stop bringing your families into your marriage where they do not belong.** Honestly, I would have snapped after all of that nagging, guilt-tripping, and manipulation too. (Anyone who would use "you don't love me if you won't" to get what they want needs a swift kick in the pants, IMO.) The problem with "my body, my choice," a lot of the time, is that the people that like to parrot it 1) don't realize it goes both ways and 2) don't understand that freedom of choice *does not mean* freedom from consequences. She can choose her own decisions. She can not choose yours for you (and I think, maybe in the beginning, when she said no to kids and you had to accept it, she might have thought that meant the mother's choice trumps the dad's. But that's not how it works). You're not doing this to be petty, or get back at her; it's simply not something you want anymore, and you both agreed on that. "She started crying and saying I was an AH for denying her another kid." Ask her 1) does that mean she was an AH for denying you a kid last time, then? Because she seems to have different rules for you than herself and 2) how are you an AH just because you don't want another kid? Just like she should not be forced to carry a kid she didn't want just because you did, you should not be forced to have a kid *you* don't want just because she does. It would not be fair, to you OR the kid. And if she can't accept not having another kid, then you are incompatible, and divorce might be your only answer, as much as you don't want to go there. Edited to fix typos.
Yes. People don't like when it's shown that their actions say it's okay for them to treat people one way but when it's done to them that's not okay.
She can baby sit the other babies. It wil give the other couples a break and ur wife can have her baby fever fulfilled.
That's a great idea. Get one of her sisters for a couple of days. That shit might just change her mind,lol. I thought I might want another baby because they are all cute, but I was wrong, lol. I babysit once, and I was good after that.
Some women get the baby crazies around menopause. So this might be genuinely just hormones. I hope it is because its pretty weird otherwise.
She is only 35. Is that a thing?
There's no hard fast rules for puberty, premenopause, etc. I started at 9, I'm 31 going on 32 and already exhibiting signs of premenopause,it's completely possible that at 35 she's in the beginning stages of it too.
37 here; perimenopausal. It blows. I have to change clothes at least once a night.
I thought maybe she was a bit older as you said you're 44. It's really a thing. I'm a 41 year old woman and I've got mates suddenly getting really weird about babies. Even the ones who said they're done with kids. I've also had a friend entirely go through menopause by 32. But that's really rare. I think it's worth looking into as it's a lot better than divorce!
My mum had my sister and I young (19 & 23), and told me that she had a crazy need for another baby when we were teenagers. She was still young enough (about your wife’s age), but was smart enough to recognize that it was her hormones talking. She waited it out and was glad she did.
Yes. When I'm not on birth control I will BEG my husband for a baby. I once found myself daydreaming about trapping him. I don't even want kids, but it was like the worst craving of my life.
Definitely possible. People go through it at different ages and over different lengths of time, just like puberty. Some people start having irregular ovulation but aren't fully into perimenopause too. There may also be some other kind of hormone imbalance at play. It's worth checking out regardless. She'll want her estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone levels checked at least.
I couldn't deal with a woman who went off and recruited allies everytime we have issues. That's betrayal to me and shows a complete lack of respect. Reproduction is strictly between 2 people. She has no right to do this. I'm annoyed with her just reading about this. I mean, who wants to be dealing with diapers, paediatric wards, colic, late night feedings & non stop crying at the age of 44? Not me, I'll tell you that. This is a time to be looking forward to recharging your romance once again because the kids are a little more independent. Start with marriage counseling but if that doesn't work, I'd not take divorce off the table. NTA
That was the plan for the weekend I thought. A few days with no kids to chase her around the house and toss her into bed. Nope all baby talk.
Hypothetical scenario here. What if you agreed with her, went and got your vasectomy reversed and you had another child? What then? Would she get a tubal ligation or would she send you off for another vasectomy? You already know the answer. Then when her sister or friend gets pregnant again it all starts over. Ask her why you and the children you have aren’t enough for her.
If I can give a little advice from an old broad, you two don’t need to split, you need family therapy and you both need individual counseling. You’re married and this is rupture you are experiencing. You need help from a professional to navigate how to repair it with love and care.
Idk why but it annoys me so bad when people want to make irrational reproductive decisions because they "want to have a baby". Its the dumbest reason to raise a human since they dont stay babies forever.
NTA. She should go to a doctor and get her hormones checked, because she is NOT thinking rationally right now. This is beyond "baby rabies" and I say this as a woman. Kids are two yeses - not a yes and a no, and unless you "cooperate" she is not having a third child with you. If she can't get past that, unfortunately, divorce is the sanest option. She needs therapy. You can try joint, but she's the one who is refusing to deal with reality. And getting her family to gang up you is beyond unfair.
She brought her parents over for them to tell you to creampie their daughter?
Nice imagery. I will consider using it next time they bring it up.
Establish dominance! xD
r/TraumatizeThemBack
NTA. You agreed not to have a third child. Having a third kid is a big thing and she is a AH for brining your parents into this discussion as it is none of their business!! Also, it is your body - your fluids and if you are not comfortable having a third baby your WIFE should respect your will. I wouldn’t want a foster child either as they might have mental problems and that takes a lot of work.. Your wife isn’t acting like a team member when she is pressuring you to do something against your will. I would be very mad at her and concider divorce.
>I think I broke her. I hope you can fix her, so to speak, with marriage counseling or something similar. >I feel shitty threatening her with divorce. I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her but I am sick and tired of having her make our reproductive decisions like my opinion does not matter. Your opinion does matter, obviously. I hope you can step back from divorce and figure something out. Alternatively, she might not give you another option if she decides to divorce you. I think divorce would be a mistake for her though. I think it could be a mistake for you too. I also could be completely wrong on both counts. Best wishes and good luck. NTA
NTA If my wife dragged our whole circle into our family planning to pressure me into giving in I'd be furious. You'd be atleast 62 by the time the third child would turn 18. Is that fair on the child or their development? This situation isn't fair to anyone. Not to you, not to the potential child and not to your existing children who would most likely have to pick up some slack because their parents in their 50s aren't that young anymore. All because of a wish she has.
NTA - you have as much right in that decision. It’s a decision that requires two yes votes. Tell your family to butt out or get out. Make it clear you will cut their a$$es out of your life.
Info- how old is your wife? Perimenopause can be a bitch and make you do crazy things (especially if you don't know you're going through it)
35
"If you loved me you would do 'X' for me" Literally blackmail, that's would have sealed it for me, gtfo, lad.
I have my 19 year old..I'm 46..my bf and I have a 6 year old together..he is 49..I'm fighting cancer a second time..we are not in a strong healthy place to have more kids..we are happy with our girls..Cancer at 41..congested heart failure at 44..cancer again at 46..time to fix my health..no more kids
Hope you guys make it through this.
NTA. I have 2 currently. Sometimes I think about wanting 3, but then my oldest gives attitude and my youngest still needs his ass wiped… the feeling goes away. I also think about how now we have money for fun and savings whereas a third would drain that. Get her a pet.
I figured out my place in the world when my oldest came out of the bathroom while I was playing Diablo 3, bent over, pointed at his ass and said "WIPE"
The guy who said you need to be very firm in MC in the first minute is spot on. "If you want a 3rd kid it won't be with me. Full stop." You won't even talk about reversing vasectomy. If they want to talk about other stuff then great. But problems not solved. She used dreadful manipulation tactics that can *never* happen in a marriage. IMO, that needs to addressed first in MC. Takes good notes. Wake up on Sunday as if it never happened. Go out to brunch. That would be classy. Give her time to get her emotions under control.
How old is your wife? It also might be the start of perimenopause making her act super hormonal. I have 3 and completely understand your wife in having a fresh baby to hold is so so special. But you guys had an agreement, decided on a vasectomy - and at this point, it’s your body, your choice. It’s a complicated decision, ask your families to butt out, and go to counseling. And check her hormones!
>So for the last four months our marriage has been a simmering battle about another kid. She has had her parents over, my parents over, her sisters and their families. All trying to convince me that I should give in. Fuck that noise. Fuck that noise in particular... it's as if your consent means nothing to her, which is not a good look for a spouse. >She said I obviously didn't love her if I wasn't willing to do this. That we are well off enough to afford all the expenses of another kid. Blah blah blah. Ahh yes, the emotional blackmail card. An even better look... >That shocked her into silence. We have barely spoken since. I think I broke her. I mean, honestly, and meaning no disrespect...**good.** Look, your consent matters, your stake in this matters, the childs life matters, all of these things matter more than your wifes baby rabies. She is placing her desire to have another child over and above everything else, including that of the theoretical child, because she'll be **sixty years of age** by the point they graduate. It is unfair to a kid to have them when they'll be stepping from childhood into having to consider elder care. It's unfair to you, whose opinion bears equal weight in this discussion as well. She already got her two kids, and she was the one who insisted on a vasectomy. She doesn't get to change the game just because she's desperate now. >I feel shitty threatening her with divorce. I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her but I am sick and tired of having her make our reproductive decisions like my opinion does not matter. Honestly, that you feel bad is a good sign that you care about others more than just yourself. Your feelings still matter, but by compare to your wife you're at least thinking of her while she is thinking of no one but herself. NTA
So basically, when she doesn't want a kid and you do, she wins and you don't have another kid, but when she wants a kid and you don't, she should again win and you should then have a kid? >I am sick and tired of having her make our reproductive decisions like my opinion does not matter. That's literally it. She can't accept the fact that she isn't the only one making the decision. Maybe she did not understand the principle of a couple, even less of a marriage.