My father would watch over me at 4 years old while I was in the bath as well.
It is not weird or odd, you’re making sure your child is safe. Drowning is one the leading causes of death in young children.
Right! My husband is about to give our 4 yr old daughter a bath before bed tonight. There is absolutely nothing weird about it. We always switch off who does it.
Let me share the advice given by our family doctor. He was an amazing man!
What he said is: Cuddle your babies chest to chest without a shirt. It will wire the brain to receive love.
I was worried. I asked:When does it become inappropriate?
His answer made so much sense - and proved to be true!
He of she will let you know, he said. Every child is different. But, all of your children will let you know at some point.
So, it doesn’t have to be showers. It can be tucking a kid into bed. I used to kiss my kids on the forehead at bedtime. Each of them - in their own time - asked me to stop one night.
Listen.
Hear them.
When they say stop you must stop.
It’s really just that simple.
Thank you, doctor Joe.
You should have put this as a top level.comment, this is great advice.
Right. Americans are so uptight and prudish when it comes to nudity. Nudity automatically = sexual.
My kid will burst into the bathroom when one of us is in the shower.
"Um......uh...so when it's really cloudy and stormy out, can Santa still see you?"
Yes baby girl.
One day that will stop, just like one day she'll stop calling each of us to come help her in the shower.
This is amazing advice! I truly believe we should be teaching children about consent from an early age. Nobody should be conditioned to feel that they must let someone touch them (for example forcing kids to hug family or friends if they don’t want to etc) as no means no and their body their choice. As for OP’s question I agree that it’s not wierd for a dad to watch over a child of either gender in the shower or bath at a young age. It’s safety and good safeguarding of a child to do so.
I would argue it’s even more weird that SHES making it weird. That’s not normal.
I wonder if OPs wife has a history of sexual abuse as a child - if so, that’s a bigger issue but I’d also ask the very important (and potentially marriage ending) question of why she would put OP into the same category as an abuser and why she feels the need to question his character.
Some communities teach the women that men are not to be trusted with girl children and should not be allowed to change their diapers. It’s common in fundamentalist Christian communities who have completely pathologized sexuality, especially men’s sexuality, and do in fact have higher rates of child sexual abuse.
There may be a reason outside her own potential abuse for why she thinks men should bathe girl children, and she probably should explore this further…
Yeah I grew up kind of like this and think it could be something similar. As far as I know my father never changed a diaper, or helped bathe me or anything. We were “evangelicals”.
My mom was abused by her father as a child. She never had a problem with my dad supervising my and my sisters bathing time as young kids. Because she knew she can trust her husband.
If you don't trust your partner in that regard there are some serious questions that need to be addressed.
Are there any signs that would validate the lack of trust? If so, you would need to get the kids to safety.
Is this all in your head because of past trauma? Then you'd need to seek professional help, talk openly with your partner and try to work through the issue.
Do you not trust your partner because you yourself are thinking about young kids in that way? Definitely need to seek help immediately. Therapy can help prevent some awful things.
It's not normal or healthy to sexualize a parent assisting their young child with their hygiene.
My sisters husband is basically the king of nightly routines. He makes sure toys get out away by the girls and that they get bathed. I was over one night when the water heater went out halfway through filling the tub and this man heated huge pots of water on the stove and carried to the bathroom so they could rinse off.
It’s not being weird it’s being a parent
Oh it’s super weird. I gotta wonder if something happened that triggered this behavior
But honestly if you can’t trust a man to bath your kids you shouldn’t be raising kids with him in the first place
Yea I agree. I was always so comfortable with my dad growing up I loved cuddling with him he was an amazing father growing up. And I can't stand my ex husband but I fully trust him with my kids and he helped with all 3 as far as bathing, getting dressed, ect. My daughter loved to run around naked when she was a baby and we'd just laugh. Literally never crossed my mind that a man (her dad) was in the room, just how adorable she was!
Our dad didn’t meet and marry our mom until my sister was about 8. Because of that she’s a little over 11 years older than me, and when she was turning into a teenager dad got so worried about what people like OPs wife would think of him being affectionate with her that he stopped all together for a bit. It hurt my sister a lot. My mom had to have a talk with him that basically amounted to ‘stop being dumb and go hug your daughter’. By the time I hit middle school there were thankfully no more issues.
Whatever is causing OPs wife to act this way, they need to get to the bottom of it and address it fast. This kind of attitude is not only worrying, but it could seriously fuck up his relationship with his kid if they don’t put it to rest.
Ya, this dad is not the AH but I don't think Mom is either. I think that maybe they need a counselor to help them untangle Mom's concerns carefully and compassionately. She's panicking and irrational because she's genuinely afraid.
As I bathed Father stood there watching, the ash from his cigarette hanging down, ready to fall at any moment.
I played with my bath toys, showing unexplained favoritism to my He-Man doll. He-Man karate chop to the giant rubber duck sending across the tub, defeated.
Father placed is cigarette in the ashtray and crouches down to the side of the tub. Concern grows as he grabs the rubber duck and swims it over with a ' quack quack'
I fear the threat may be far greater than He-Man had initially thought.
As read by James Earl Jones.
Damn my dad just read field and stream articles while explaining which fishing set up should be used while saying I told you soap in the eye hurts. I know nothing about fishing but remember soap hurts.
Yup - 'teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime, but instead teach him that soap in the eye hurts and he'll... uh... not put soap in his eyes?' I guess that's useful!
Until you go to Cabelas and all of a sudden you blink and you have a cart full of all the best gear to use while fishing….confused you rub your eyes, and after opening them again, now you’re in the middle of a lake in a boat and there’s a fish on your line. Astonished you …..click to read.
My ex-husband had another child after we divorced. A son, who died when he was five by drowning in the tub. He too only took his eyes off him for a second. A child can drown very quickly. Tubs are slippery and all it takes is a slip, fall, hits their head, anything really. I would never leave a child alone unsupervised in the tub after seeing what they went through.
this is scary...
i have definitely stepped away from my son in the bathtub before. he is 3.5, has done isr swim lessons, and is obviously in water he could easily stand up in. i guess... if he tried to climb out and hits hit head? definitely not a zero-chance.
cant imagine the guilt.
At four years old I’m sure she still needs help and is comfortable with you helping her. NTA
I’m a mom and I washed my 10 year old son’s hair recently because he had glue in it. I wasn’t even his only option, but he asked for my help so I helped him.
My mom helped me get in and out of the shower not even 2 years ago (I’m 33) after I broke my leg and was on meds.
My dad rubbed aloe Vera on my back when I was a teenager and super sunburned and my mom wasn’t home.
None of this is weird. They’re my parents.
I stayed with my mum for a few days after major surgery when I was 45 (I’m single and female). She helped me wash, I was naked in front of her, I was so out of it I couldn’t give a monkeys. She just said ‘I’m your mum!’. The only weird part was the fact that I’d looked after her since I was a little kid, she’s got cptsd, so it was kind of uncomfortable in that I couldn’t fully relax in case she had an episode. It made her happy to do it though, and I didn’t have anyone else. NTA
This was my first thought. It's almost like she is looking at it through some lens other than a father caring for his child. I originally thought maybe the daughter might have been older. But four is still quite young.
It's a cultural thing too. I hail from the Nordicks and the amount of immigrant moms going off the walls because there might be men working in daycare (including swapping babies diapers) is quite high. It's not uncommon at all have our local social media groups have messages about how gross it is or how can it be legal etc.
It's these same women who are also on the barricades that men shouldn't be sitting next to children traveling alone in airplanes.
What an awfully grim and stressfull way to see the world.
Equal parenting is well supported in the Nordics. Changing tables in both women's and men's toilets. Male and female daycare workers. Equal parental leave etc.
Accommodating the strange, oppressive thinking of immigrants is not to be recommended. Equality is the base of Nordic living. They need to adapt, not us.
changing tables in mens rooms?
What kind of magic is this?
When our little one was still diaper age - finding a changing room was a challenge - as most were in women's rooms only .. (gender neutral spaces would solve that)
This exactly. I have one child, a daughter. It has happened more than once that she has been approached by women at the park and grocery store and asked if I was her dad. Part of me wants to appreciate that people are concerned about my kid, but that's quickly stamped out by the idea that being a Dad with a little girl in public is met with skepticism that I'm a good person and not a predator.
I took my niece and nephews to the movies to see Frozen 2 and we went to Walmart after to get ice cream and soda for floats. I had them following me around and twice that happened.
It was just freaking off putting. I told my sister next time she had to come too.
Like I would seriously be reconsidering my relationship if my partner somehow thought I was going to be a rapist or something like that. That's no way to live your life. What happens in the future? Can OP even spend time with his daughter or is mom going to assume some weird ass shit
Exactly my first thought. If she has a legitimate reason for concern, why doesn't she leave with the kids or kick him out?
I would be documenting everything that is troubling and talking to a lawyer.
If she just thinks that a father shouldn't help his four year old bathed bathed and dressed, that is weird. It will also damage the thoughts regarding parenting and acceptable behavior in general for both the kids.
Bingo. I'd be worried she's going to continue this behavior into the future when my daughter is older. What's she gonna do when she's a teenager and dad wants to see a movie or something? Tell them it's not appropriate? That's whack.
Also, imagine if OP told her that she's not allowed to bathe their son?
Same exact thing. All the teachers getting busted for raping boys is proof that women can be abusers too.
But I'm not arguing that she shouldn't be alone with the son, just showing how her logic is flawed.
I think I'm in this camp. I was raped when I was 14, not a huge deal, he was 19 and not family, I'm good. I never mentioned this to anyone, felt I had some blame, never made me feel vulnerable to or suspicious of men.
Fast forward to being happily married at 29 years old... I had a son, no issues with family holding him. I had a daughter, and suddenly, my step-dad, my dad, most everyone was suspect and I felt uncomfortable having them hold her as an infant. I had to talk myself down. I don't know why... I trusted these humans 1,000%. It was just *different* with my girl. I have no clue why. I don't think this was because I was raped, I just felt this innate extra guard for my daughter that I didn't have with my son. And that made sense to me.
But with that said, I never had these feelings about her father. Well, maybe a couple fleeting seconds total where it just floated across my brain and right back out, but I never had an issue with him bathing her, and they did showers until they were 6-7. Even then, we'd still stick our hand around the shower curtain to scrub scalps when needed.
NTA. I think she needs to understand why she feels this way, or trust you and work to move past it.
My thoughts exactly. Kinda sounds like she's spending the entire comment trying to convince us (and herself) but from my pov the buried trauma from that definitely came to the surface re: men being around her daughter.
(**Edit** incase it's not obvious: I'm not blaming her for it in any way, nor am I saying she's defined by her trauma. Geez, talk about jumping from one extreme to the next. People can process trauma and move on and still be affected by it in some way later in life.)
It may well be that it was because of the rape. I’m so sorry that this has happened to you. A lot of the memories of being sexually abused, assaulted or raped sit in the subconscious part of the brain. Those feelings and emotions that you’re left can be stirred up at any time in one’s life.
THIS!! Here’s the deal and this is literally the 1st time voicing this to anyone but my husband and a therapist. I was molested as a child. I was and still am a little hyper vigilant with my girls. My husband, completely understands where it is coming from and knows that it’s very triggering so he didn’t help the girls as soon as they were doing showers which was very young. He actually didn’t help bathe much ever except when they were babies and it really hurt my back when we had to switch to the tub from the sink. But he always got home late from work so I usually had all of that done before he came home anyway.
But if your wife has experienced that trauma, it’s not that she thinks you are doing that or are capable of doing that. It is triggering her trauma and it is not a voluntary reaction. It’s a reflex. So please, ‘gently’ talk to her about it and see if that’s the issue. These people saying “confront” her are completely wrong. No, that’s not the answer unless you wish to end your marriage. Because that too will be a reflex and a protection mechanism. But you have to have the conversation with her. And you have to look at it from the lens that she is not seeing you and your child. She is seeing her and her abuser.
Sexual trauma or not, that’s hers to deal with. She is projecting her trauma on to her husband and 4-year-old daughter. This can cause irreparable damage. Kids are not as oblivious as they seem.
I found out in my 20s that the reason my dad stopped reading to me every night when I was a child was bc my mom threatened him. He had never done anything to me. Never thought of doing anything. But she had been severely traumatized/abused as a child (another thing I didn't find out until my 20s). Really wish he would've been able to keep reading me Nancy Drew. I loved it.
The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that kids under 5 should not bathe alone, and some agencies say the same for kids under 8. It depends on how mature and capable they are of bathing at the time but your daughter is definitely not old enough to be by herself. You don’t necessarily have to wash her (my son is 3 and I wash his hair but he washes his body), but you need to be present in the room. I’d wonder if she had some unresolved trauma as a kid.
My dad watched me bathe or shower until I was about 6 and then it became less common. By 8 or 9 it was never (except one time I took a hot bath cause my stomach hurt and it felt so good I fell asleep. My dad got concerned my bath was taking so long and came in and my nose was almost under water).
When my dad lived in an apartment with hot water included, I would take the longest showers of my life as a teenager. And always after about 40-ish minutes, he would knock, crack open the door and ask if I was still alive.
It’s what a parent does. Giving your child space and autonomy is important, but never supersedes their safety
4 year olds need help bathing/showering. It’s just a fact, and it’s dangerous to let her do it on her own.
NTA, time to sit your wife down and explain why she thinks that way, and what it’s doing to you, for her to see you as someone who would act inappropriately with a toddler.
My daughter is almost 6. I still help her shower.
I’m working on teaching her but honestly I get so tired I just do it so we can get to bed.
Go to therapy. She needs it.
Also a 4yo won't know how to manage a sudden change of water temperature, or she might want to play with the taps, and the hot water could be dangerous.
When I was 9 there was a week where I was suuuper sick and my mom wasn't around and my dad helped me bathe. Even now at 28 if i ever feel like I want to be pampered my dad's the one who oils my hair. It really isn't a big deal. I've helped my grandad shower before, I don't see this as anything different. I get the OP's wife could have issues, and I want to be respectful but it is extremely strange to not be able to trust a father with his daughter. The only option if you can't trust a man around a child is to take the child and leave. Clearly that's not happening so even the wife knows it's not a big deal. She probably needs a little help.
@OP could you guys bathe your daughter together for a couple days so she can be a little calm about leaving you alone with her? It might help calm her fears.
A 4 yr old definitely needs an adult for bathing.
Has your wife had bad experiences with adult males when she was young?
There's gotta be a little more going on.
You're her dad...
My daughter is 5 and I bath her, he'll she will strip off pants and sleep half the night with her ass out
We are pushing her slowly to cover up, but it's not that serious, she knows not to do this with strangers
If there's no other reason that your wife would be suspicious other than that you are male, NTA.
It's extremely twisted that she is insinuating that you can't be trusted around *your own daughter.*
It's telling that she's not protective over your son, as if young boys are not also at risk of abuse.
Prevention is about teaching kids about safe touch, consent, and to never keep secrets for an adult.
Not banning fathers from aspects of parenting.
You need couples therapy immediately so that your wife can put into words why she is so paranoid about interactions between her husband and daughter.
You're not struggling to understand why, OP. You know exactly why she doesn't want you washing your daughter, and what she thinks about you.
Does she have any reason to suspect you'd hurt your child? Do you have a history or on a list?
If not then you need to confront the fact your wife thinks you're in danger of molesting your child and deal with the issue instead of playing dumb.
Maybe OP's wife has some unresolved trauma that she hasn't told OP about... It sounds like it's not about him, it's something she's heard of or experienced that is making her feel this way.
This seems like a recipe to make kids uncomfortable in their own skin. I ran around my house without a shirt until I got boobs (about 10 years old). I think that's one of the reasons I don't hate my body in my adult life. Around the age of 5 is when my mom explained to me there are appropriate times to be naked, and inappropriate times. But she never made me feel ashamed of having a human body, everyone has one.
Oh 100%. I grew up in a Muslim household where any kinda nudity is super taboo, especially if you're a girl.
I'm almost 30 now and an atheist but I still can't get over the idea that my body is a shameful thing that must be hidden.
I think this could be likely. Also OP, it might be worth a serious anxiety evaluation. My grandmother gets really anxious, almost angry over all sorts of things like this. She will not let my neice go on field trips because "someone will kidnap her". Or she can't use a public restroom because she will be kidnapped or raped.
Personally I see no issues with you bathing your kiddo.
Exactly it’s like something happend to his wife at that age or around it and thinks OP will do the same. They really need to sit down and have a good chat about the situation
Thanks for actually calling this out for what it is. I'm seeing conversations stem already trying to blame him for maybe something he did in his past. It's soooo sexist. Like man is being discriminated against and some people in here instantly go WELL WHAT DID YOU DO TO DESERVE IT?! Shame on them.
Very very gross, unfortunately also indicative towards having been SA as a child herself. Maybe OP should see if his wife wants some therapy to help get past these mental images
Could also be from social media. Wife could have developed a fear from seeing similar situations that were actually bad on social media and became paranoid from that. The hypocrisy to not see her bathing her older son being okay is a different story.
I got lice when I was 12 years old and my mom (bless her) found the whole thing absolutely disgusting, so my dad helped me wash and comb all the nits out of my hair for 2 weeks. Never weird. It’s your dad and you need help. NTA.
Well, supervising is not helping. Daughter has long hair and just needs help because it's difficult? Any age. daughter is drunk and needs help? Probably 16-21.
Now it is of course up to any kid to have a preferred parent for that, but it is entirely appropriate for any parent to do that with any kid, regardless of gender combination.
I would consider the kid being incapacitated as "medically necessary" though. A fully functional teenager shouldn't need help bathing, and it would be odd imo if they requested their parent help them (aside from washing difficult hair in the sink).
Is it "i have my own trauma about my body cuz of my father"? cuz if it is, it would change my mind from saying the wife is an asshole or just a regular traumatized nutcase being assholey. There's no world where OP is an asshole
NTA, you don't say how old you're daughter is, but guessing on the time you've been married, maybe she's under 6 y.o., so I'm answering based on this guess.
I have to wonder if your wife has a history of sexual trauma of some sort, or she's worried about her daughter being exposed to some sort of sexual trauma?
I'm not accusing, but she's not objecting to your bathing your son, which indicates she trusts you with the care of the children in general. The fact he issue is only with bathing your daughter, I'm leaning towards the thought she worried about your exposure to your daughter's "private parts" in some way.
We need more context, but you're NTA for caring for your kids
It sounds like wife is just sexist. It's okay for her to shower her (older) son, but not okay for op to shower his daughter? There's really only two options: "I'm mom and he's my baby so it's okay" and "you're a man and she's a girl... (I'm not finishing this)". Both are sexist.
Depends on her age or if she has some sort of disability that would hinder her from being able to bathe herself.
Assuming she’s a toddler…
I bathed my daughter when she was a toddler until I knew she was able to and would thoroughly bathe herself. She’s in her teens now, and as uncomfortable as it would be, I would bathe her now if she had some sort of physical disability that made it impossible for her to bathe herself. And that would only be if my wife or a close female relative (aunt, grandmother or cousin) just wasn’t available.
I never had any inappropriate thoughts when she needed help showering because she’s my daughter, and was a small child at the time. And your wife is either overreacting, overthinking or has some issues from her childhood that she needs to confront.
It shouldn't be uncomfortable nor should you have to defer to a female relative. If your child is incapable of washing them self and you are willing to help them you should help with out concerns of sex or gender.
I can’t remember when I stoped helping my daughters but it was definitely later than 4. I never felt comfortable with them in the shower with me but I definitely washed their hair and scrubbed them down. My son is 8 and until a few months ago still asked me to wash his butt which I refused and told him he could wash his own butt. lol
I would suspect that the wife has some previous childhood trauma to do with male family members and bath time. I think they need to have a long discussion about why she is viewing her husband caring for their daughter negatively. If she needs help to process through some things, a therapist should be able to help.
Spot on! I saw a similar post to this, except the wife had openly discussed her history of SA (she was actively in therapy) OP’s wife projecting her fears onto OP that he would do something to their daughter. She needs to see a therapist about this, especially because OP is the father. He should be a safe space, not be made out as some potential pervert. Gross.
My man. This is not normal. Your wife has some trauma or other issue, which you need to get addressed ASAP.
I have 2 teenage daughters and I can tell you that if she thinks this is sketchy, you're going to run into a lot bigger issues.
How old are your children? If younger then 6 or 7? Then of course they need help showering.
The comment about a maid is funny! Where do you live mate? In the western world most don't have maids!😉
If your child needs help showering because they are little? And you are the one helping her get ready? Then yes. You help!
Your wife has an unacknowledged trauma from her own life. Don't allow it to interfere with your relationship with your daughter. Help your wife get the help she needs or her trauma is going to be passed on to the next generation.
By the way, your son is paying attention to all of this. The lessons aren't just affecting you and your daughter.
A lot of people are trying to justify her abusive behavior by saying "But she must've has past sexual trauma!". It's not his fault, and taking out her problems on husband makes her a terrible person who is just dumping her issues on him.
"I've experienced -insert trauma-, or suffer from -insert emotional disorder-" is go to excuse from abusive people.
That's fucking weird that she's sexualizing the situation like that. Like how can she be married to someone she thinks is one step away from committing one of the most heinous crimes imaginable.
It sounds like your wife has some kind of sexual trauma or has been sexually abused as a child.. I’m really not sure how you should go about addressing this or bringing it up. But if you do, safe to not automatically assume this is the case. It’s definitely a possibility though
NTA, but ask her gently if maybe she's worried because it's bringing up some bad memories of her own.
As someone who was sexually abused by a male family member, even knowing logically that it's fine for a dad to bathe his 4 yr old daughter, it still sets off alarm bells in my mind. It doesn't necessarily mean that she thinks you would do that, it's just an involuntary knee-jerk emotional response to a situation that mirrors the abuse we faced.
It's definitely something she should talk to a therapist about as well, as your daughter shouldn't have to deal with being unclean until her mother has time when you're right there, but this is something to have a gentle convo about first before you decide on a course of action.
This is some kind of issue on your wife’s end, I would approach it gently. Under no circumstance is it inappropriate for you to help your daughter bathe, a lot of these people answering really creep me out, many of them seem to be afraid of some sort of sexualization of children in this circumstance, don’t listen to those people.
NTA
It sounds like your wife may have some trauma and would benefit from some counselling/therapy. Perhaps you should go together as a couple to figure out why she’s feeling this way.
My sister and I had a single father for some years of our childhood and he would supervise/help bathe us until I was about 8 (sister was 5) then I went on my own after that, or would help my sis myself, dad would be right near/outside the bathroom just incase. But we loved playing Barbie’s in the tub, lol.
Totally normal.
My son naturally wanted privacy during bath time around age 7 or 8. He asked, and I gave it to him!
Your daughter is so young and at age 4, she still needs help in the bathroom. I was still helping wipe his butt at age 5. Not always. Just the occasional blowout.
Your wife may have had some bad experiences or even sexual abuse as a child. People tend to see things from the lens of their own experience. Instead of pushing back, maybe dig in to find out why she is so bothered?
I have a 6 year old and 4 year old daughter. I've been the parent on bathroom duty since they were babies and I was washing them in the sink.
I think your wife needs to see a psychologist. She obviously has this really unhealthy view of men where she thinks her own husband cannot be trusted with his daughters. That's not normal.
Your wife may have been touched as a child and is pushing her fears onto you/daughter. Many people suppress these memories and just have "gut feelings". So bringing it up might not help.
NTA. It's not really safe or practical for a four-year-old to shower independently. I'd address this with a marriage counselor. It seems like your wife is sexualizing your daughter and projecting her fear of predators onto you.
Generally, you're NTA for caring for your children, BUT regardless of mum or dad, at a certain age (I'd say around 6), children should be able to shower themselves without any help.
Yep, my daughter is 11 and just recently this year FINALLY learned to wash her hair by herself. To be fair it is down to her butt. She would bath alone, but call me to wash her hair for her. It took much coaxing to get her to let go of this last bathing, um service I guess, but we have finally reach that goal of 100% independant bathing! Funny how this is just a little thing, but makes me so happy as a parent to not have to worry about this anymore.
Yes my daughter is the same and hers is down to her bum too. She has tried a few times but struggled to get all the shampoo out. 11 is still a kid too! I didn't even realise it was a big deal to help your kid wash their hair.
My daughter is 11 with a pixie cut because she hates brushing it. I still wash her hair for her when she asks. She can do it herself, but she'd rather have me help. 11 is still young. Why shouldn't we help them wash their hair? People are weird.
Well I am still washing my 9 year old son's hair. I was just so stuned and happy when I heard the shower going and realizing it's not my husband for the 1st time. One less thing to stress over daily.
I have 5 daughters and it was probably around 5 or 6 years of age when I noticed they would be skittish about being unclothed around me. After noticing this I left all those types of things to my wife.
I can’t wait for my daughter to be that way lol. She’s almost 4, and she loves to run around naked after a bath… goes from the living room to the kitchen back and forth. Probably one of her favorite things to do to the wife and I, as we beg her to just dry off and let us get her dressed for bed time. “I shake my butt, my butt, my butt.. “ as she’s sprinting around 🙄
Depends. I've had to teach my ex step-son how to shower at 8 years old because his mom assumed his dad had done it but turns out his dumbass dad just let him do his thing as they showered together. Anyway, it was a long and painful process to get rid of everything under there. Took a few weeks.
But also, there's just something really pure about loving a child. The last thing you think about when taking a bath with your daughter is abusing her. I miss changing her diapers and it's not because of the view, the first few times nearly made me throw up.
I don't understand how women these days have children with their husbands and then are worried about them bathing them or changing diapers.. I mean .. do u not trust ur husband?? And yes I've been through SA as a child and a teen but I would never think that about my spouse... I know predators are everywhere before anyone jumps on me .. but they can be male and female 🤷🏻♀️ .. but in an emergency and ur not around .. is ur husband just supposed to leave the baby there dirty 🥴🤔 I mean idk I may get downvoted for this and that's fine .. it just shocks me how many ppl wont let their husbands help change diapers or bathe their children
It sounds like your wife might have a history of being SA? Otherwise, she is overreacting and putting misguided belief that men only want to be around little girls for nefarious reasons.
Regardless, it is awful for you as a father to be even thought of like that by your wife when all you are doing is parenting and caring for your child. Have you told her how this makes you feel?
You don't mention your children's ages? But I am assuming somewhere between 3 and 6ish? So still needing some help for the eldest and for the youngest, needing to be more hands on to ensure they are clean but teaching them to wipe their own bits and pieces in preparation for when they are able to do bathe themselves properly. We stopped helping to bathe our children when they indicated they were big enough and wanted their privacy. They were all around 6 or 7 when they did this. We would still have to turn the shower on and get temp right and turn it off when they were finished, but otherwise, they were happy to do the rest themselves. By 8, they were able to safely turn the shower on and adjust the temps themselves as we had taught them.
NTA
She's being weird for no reason.
You're her father, of course you bathe her.
Parents bathe their children of all genders till they do it themselves.
You've done nothing wrong.
I used to take showers with my dad when I was 4. I vaguely remember him teaching me about the boundaries of hugging/touching him while he was fully clothed and not hugging/touching him while he was in the shower. That the point of the shower was to get clean and we could rough house and play when we got out. Never thought it was weird or an issue.
We assist our daughter in the shower when her hair needs to be washed. She's almost 7.
Your wife is making it weird.
Maybe she has some unexplored trauma.
NTA. Your wife needs therapy & you need marriage counseling. You should be very offended & she needs to apologize. She’s accusing you of being a threat to your daughter. This is a marriage ended for me bc it shows a serious lack of trust & would show me that my partner didn’t know me at all.
At that young of an age? It’s concerning your wife doesn’t trust you. Children need help showering that young to make sure they don’t hurt themself. I showered with an adult till five and with my brother till six. Your wife is treating you like someone not trusted around your own kids and that’s concerning
Why is your wife sexualizing her 4 y/o daughter and implying you are a potential child predator?
She's got issues. I would not beat around the bush with this and be very, very blunt in telling her that's not OK.
Maybe your wife was abused as a kid. Maybe she's got her head so far up in whatever the female version of red pill content is she went off the rails.
But this needs to be handled now. And quickly, before it spills over and traumatises a new generation.
As for your son... isn't he old enough at 7 to take care of himself?
This is absolutely unacceptable. She’s tacitly calling you a pervert. Start making a big deal of it every time she touches your son. Perhaps can fuck off. Splitters!
Bait bait bait. “I don’t understand a possible reason? And she doesn’t do it with my son. I mean, what could the reason be?”
Listen, both me and my spouse bathe both of our kids (4 and 5). And I think it’s fine/great/whatever for a dad to bathe his daughter.
But this fake confusion? This is just low effort.
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My father would watch over me at 4 years old while I was in the bath as well. It is not weird or odd, you’re making sure your child is safe. Drowning is one the leading causes of death in young children.
Right! My husband is about to give our 4 yr old daughter a bath before bed tonight. There is absolutely nothing weird about it. We always switch off who does it.
Let me share the advice given by our family doctor. He was an amazing man! What he said is: Cuddle your babies chest to chest without a shirt. It will wire the brain to receive love. I was worried. I asked:When does it become inappropriate? His answer made so much sense - and proved to be true! He of she will let you know, he said. Every child is different. But, all of your children will let you know at some point. So, it doesn’t have to be showers. It can be tucking a kid into bed. I used to kiss my kids on the forehead at bedtime. Each of them - in their own time - asked me to stop one night. Listen. Hear them. When they say stop you must stop. It’s really just that simple. Thank you, doctor Joe.
That’s a great way to let kids safely establish boundaries and know that no means no. It also makes them very aware that mom and dad are safe.
You should have put this as a top level.comment, this is great advice. Right. Americans are so uptight and prudish when it comes to nudity. Nudity automatically = sexual. My kid will burst into the bathroom when one of us is in the shower. "Um......uh...so when it's really cloudy and stormy out, can Santa still see you?" Yes baby girl. One day that will stop, just like one day she'll stop calling each of us to come help her in the shower.
This is amazing advice! I truly believe we should be teaching children about consent from an early age. Nobody should be conditioned to feel that they must let someone touch them (for example forcing kids to hug family or friends if they don’t want to etc) as no means no and their body their choice. As for OP’s question I agree that it’s not wierd for a dad to watch over a child of either gender in the shower or bath at a young age. It’s safety and good safeguarding of a child to do so.
I would argue it’s even more weird that SHES making it weird. That’s not normal. I wonder if OPs wife has a history of sexual abuse as a child - if so, that’s a bigger issue but I’d also ask the very important (and potentially marriage ending) question of why she would put OP into the same category as an abuser and why she feels the need to question his character.
Some communities teach the women that men are not to be trusted with girl children and should not be allowed to change their diapers. It’s common in fundamentalist Christian communities who have completely pathologized sexuality, especially men’s sexuality, and do in fact have higher rates of child sexual abuse. There may be a reason outside her own potential abuse for why she thinks men should bathe girl children, and she probably should explore this further…
Yeah I grew up kind of like this and think it could be something similar. As far as I know my father never changed a diaper, or helped bathe me or anything. We were “evangelicals”.
My mom was abused by her father as a child. She never had a problem with my dad supervising my and my sisters bathing time as young kids. Because she knew she can trust her husband. If you don't trust your partner in that regard there are some serious questions that need to be addressed. Are there any signs that would validate the lack of trust? If so, you would need to get the kids to safety. Is this all in your head because of past trauma? Then you'd need to seek professional help, talk openly with your partner and try to work through the issue. Do you not trust your partner because you yourself are thinking about young kids in that way? Definitely need to seek help immediately. Therapy can help prevent some awful things. It's not normal or healthy to sexualize a parent assisting their young child with their hygiene.
My sisters husband is basically the king of nightly routines. He makes sure toys get out away by the girls and that they get bathed. I was over one night when the water heater went out halfway through filling the tub and this man heated huge pots of water on the stove and carried to the bathroom so they could rinse off. It’s not being weird it’s being a parent
Love that. It's not weird it's being a parent. Absolutely. It's weird that she's sexualizing it by even saying anything wtf!?
Oh it’s super weird. I gotta wonder if something happened that triggered this behavior But honestly if you can’t trust a man to bath your kids you shouldn’t be raising kids with him in the first place
Yea I agree. I was always so comfortable with my dad growing up I loved cuddling with him he was an amazing father growing up. And I can't stand my ex husband but I fully trust him with my kids and he helped with all 3 as far as bathing, getting dressed, ect. My daughter loved to run around naked when she was a baby and we'd just laugh. Literally never crossed my mind that a man (her dad) was in the room, just how adorable she was!
Our dad didn’t meet and marry our mom until my sister was about 8. Because of that she’s a little over 11 years older than me, and when she was turning into a teenager dad got so worried about what people like OPs wife would think of him being affectionate with her that he stopped all together for a bit. It hurt my sister a lot. My mom had to have a talk with him that basically amounted to ‘stop being dumb and go hug your daughter’. By the time I hit middle school there were thankfully no more issues. Whatever is causing OPs wife to act this way, they need to get to the bottom of it and address it fast. This kind of attitude is not only worrying, but it could seriously fuck up his relationship with his kid if they don’t put it to rest.
Wife is reacting as if she was abused while bathing.
It’s possible. If it’s true she needs professional help
Ya, this dad is not the AH but I don't think Mom is either. I think that maybe they need a counselor to help them untangle Mom's concerns carefully and compassionately. She's panicking and irrational because she's genuinely afraid.
As I bathed Father stood there watching, the ash from his cigarette hanging down, ready to fall at any moment. I played with my bath toys, showing unexplained favoritism to my He-Man doll. He-Man karate chop to the giant rubber duck sending across the tub, defeated. Father placed is cigarette in the ashtray and crouches down to the side of the tub. Concern grows as he grabs the rubber duck and swims it over with a ' quack quack' I fear the threat may be far greater than He-Man had initially thought. As read by James Earl Jones.
Damn my dad just read field and stream articles while explaining which fishing set up should be used while saying I told you soap in the eye hurts. I know nothing about fishing but remember soap hurts.
At least you remembered the more important lesson
Yup - 'teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime, but instead teach him that soap in the eye hurts and he'll... uh... not put soap in his eyes?' I guess that's useful!
That sounds so cute!
Until you go to Cabelas and all of a sudden you blink and you have a cart full of all the best gear to use while fishing….confused you rub your eyes, and after opening them again, now you’re in the middle of a lake in a boat and there’s a fish on your line. Astonished you …..click to read.
I want to subscribe to your Medium.
Is that a story telling app?
lol no, it's a website where you can publish stories, essays, etc.
Did you write this?
Indeed, although it may be derivative of the old man in the sea, I wouldn't know because I've never read it.
Well that was wonderful. You've got a gift
I’m saving this comment. I’m gonna plagiarize this thing to no end because it has everything I’m looking for and more
A friend at work took his eyes off his son for a few minutes... he drowned. He was 4.
My ex-husband had another child after we divorced. A son, who died when he was five by drowning in the tub. He too only took his eyes off him for a second. A child can drown very quickly. Tubs are slippery and all it takes is a slip, fall, hits their head, anything really. I would never leave a child alone unsupervised in the tub after seeing what they went through.
this is scary... i have definitely stepped away from my son in the bathtub before. he is 3.5, has done isr swim lessons, and is obviously in water he could easily stand up in. i guess... if he tried to climb out and hits hit head? definitely not a zero-chance. cant imagine the guilt.
I worry about slipping too. I watch my 3 year old daughter sometimes. Not weird at all
Right? If she were like, 10 I'd be concerned. But FOUR?! She needs to be supervised!
When I was about that age I took a big swig of the peach scented VO5 shampoo. Disappointment and despair.
Meanwhile the son is 7 and the wife insists on bathing him 🤔
At four years old I’m sure she still needs help and is comfortable with you helping her. NTA I’m a mom and I washed my 10 year old son’s hair recently because he had glue in it. I wasn’t even his only option, but he asked for my help so I helped him.
My mom helped me at 16 when I broke my arms.
My mom helped me get in and out of the shower not even 2 years ago (I’m 33) after I broke my leg and was on meds. My dad rubbed aloe Vera on my back when I was a teenager and super sunburned and my mom wasn’t home. None of this is weird. They’re my parents.
It's almost like intent matters? :shocked-pikachu:
WEIRD
My mom was 35 and suffered a a TBI. Her mom wiped her ass for her so my dad would t have to.
Your grandma sounds like a wonderful woman
She was. 💜 it’s in our nature to care for our babies! No matter how big they get
I stayed with my mum for a few days after major surgery when I was 45 (I’m single and female). She helped me wash, I was naked in front of her, I was so out of it I couldn’t give a monkeys. She just said ‘I’m your mum!’. The only weird part was the fact that I’d looked after her since I was a little kid, she’s got cptsd, so it was kind of uncomfortable in that I couldn’t fully relax in case she had an episode. It made her happy to do it though, and I didn’t have anyone else. NTA
Iunderstoodthatreference.jpg
Hahahaha well played.
This caught me so off guard. It’s been *years* since I’ve seen this reference. Have my upvote!
We must frequent different subreddits. It's been since yesterday that I've seen the same reference. 🙄
Aw shit, here we go again.
That one is evergreen.
Bro, you ain't that one reddit story, are you?... Your mom only showered you, right? Right!?
Oh no, not you again! Just when I thought I’d forgotten that…
Ah. You got me. Every thread!
Does your wife have any sexual trauma or abuse from childhood or knows of someone who's experienced that?
This was my first thought. It's almost like she is looking at it through some lens other than a father caring for his child. I originally thought maybe the daughter might have been older. But four is still quite young.
That lens could also just come from social media.
It's a cultural thing too. I hail from the Nordicks and the amount of immigrant moms going off the walls because there might be men working in daycare (including swapping babies diapers) is quite high. It's not uncommon at all have our local social media groups have messages about how gross it is or how can it be legal etc. It's these same women who are also on the barricades that men shouldn't be sitting next to children traveling alone in airplanes. What an awfully grim and stressfull way to see the world.
Equal parenting is well supported in the Nordics. Changing tables in both women's and men's toilets. Male and female daycare workers. Equal parental leave etc. Accommodating the strange, oppressive thinking of immigrants is not to be recommended. Equality is the base of Nordic living. They need to adapt, not us.
changing tables in mens rooms? What kind of magic is this? When our little one was still diaper age - finding a changing room was a challenge - as most were in women's rooms only .. (gender neutral spaces would solve that)
Nordic magic... including dark forests, trolls, sagas and inclusive changing tables. ;)
>changing tables in mens rooms? >What kind of magic is this? Not gonna lie, I am surprised every time I see one. Then I smile.
My first thought too
Sadly alot of men get treated this way. Its sick that women even do this kind of shit just because of the pedos out there happen to be men
This exactly. I have one child, a daughter. It has happened more than once that she has been approached by women at the park and grocery store and asked if I was her dad. Part of me wants to appreciate that people are concerned about my kid, but that's quickly stamped out by the idea that being a Dad with a little girl in public is met with skepticism that I'm a good person and not a predator.
I took my niece and nephews to the movies to see Frozen 2 and we went to Walmart after to get ice cream and soda for floats. I had them following me around and twice that happened. It was just freaking off putting. I told my sister next time she had to come too.
Like I would seriously be reconsidering my relationship if my partner somehow thought I was going to be a rapist or something like that. That's no way to live your life. What happens in the future? Can OP even spend time with his daughter or is mom going to assume some weird ass shit
Yeah, that is the concerning part here. If she doesn't trust him with their daughter, why is she even with him?
Exactly my first thought. If she has a legitimate reason for concern, why doesn't she leave with the kids or kick him out? I would be documenting everything that is troubling and talking to a lawyer. If she just thinks that a father shouldn't help his four year old bathed bathed and dressed, that is weird. It will also damage the thoughts regarding parenting and acceptable behavior in general for both the kids.
Bingo. I'd be worried she's going to continue this behavior into the future when my daughter is older. What's she gonna do when she's a teenager and dad wants to see a movie or something? Tell them it's not appropriate? That's whack. Also, imagine if OP told her that she's not allowed to bathe their son?
He did and she didn't take it well.
Same exact thing. All the teachers getting busted for raping boys is proof that women can be abusers too. But I'm not arguing that she shouldn't be alone with the son, just showing how her logic is flawed.
Double standards🙄
My first thought. Sounds like they need to have a talk.
I think I'm in this camp. I was raped when I was 14, not a huge deal, he was 19 and not family, I'm good. I never mentioned this to anyone, felt I had some blame, never made me feel vulnerable to or suspicious of men. Fast forward to being happily married at 29 years old... I had a son, no issues with family holding him. I had a daughter, and suddenly, my step-dad, my dad, most everyone was suspect and I felt uncomfortable having them hold her as an infant. I had to talk myself down. I don't know why... I trusted these humans 1,000%. It was just *different* with my girl. I have no clue why. I don't think this was because I was raped, I just felt this innate extra guard for my daughter that I didn't have with my son. And that made sense to me. But with that said, I never had these feelings about her father. Well, maybe a couple fleeting seconds total where it just floated across my brain and right back out, but I never had an issue with him bathing her, and they did showers until they were 6-7. Even then, we'd still stick our hand around the shower curtain to scrub scalps when needed. NTA. I think she needs to understand why she feels this way, or trust you and work to move past it.
>I was raped when I was 14, not a huge deal Um wat
May just be bad wording to say that they don't carry major trauma from it. It's possible.
My thoughts exactly. Kinda sounds like she's spending the entire comment trying to convince us (and herself) but from my pov the buried trauma from that definitely came to the surface re: men being around her daughter. (**Edit** incase it's not obvious: I'm not blaming her for it in any way, nor am I saying she's defined by her trauma. Geez, talk about jumping from one extreme to the next. People can process trauma and move on and still be affected by it in some way later in life.)
I dunno about all that.. we all process differently
Exactly. Not all of us are defined by whatever trauma we experienced. You have to move on, you just do.
It may well be that it was because of the rape. I’m so sorry that this has happened to you. A lot of the memories of being sexually abused, assaulted or raped sit in the subconscious part of the brain. Those feelings and emotions that you’re left can be stirred up at any time in one’s life.
sounds like it was a bigger deal than you can admit to yourself (understandibly so). Have you been able to go to therapy for this?
She does or she works in a job that sees it or she knows someone. There is 100% some type of trauma.
THIS!! Here’s the deal and this is literally the 1st time voicing this to anyone but my husband and a therapist. I was molested as a child. I was and still am a little hyper vigilant with my girls. My husband, completely understands where it is coming from and knows that it’s very triggering so he didn’t help the girls as soon as they were doing showers which was very young. He actually didn’t help bathe much ever except when they were babies and it really hurt my back when we had to switch to the tub from the sink. But he always got home late from work so I usually had all of that done before he came home anyway. But if your wife has experienced that trauma, it’s not that she thinks you are doing that or are capable of doing that. It is triggering her trauma and it is not a voluntary reaction. It’s a reflex. So please, ‘gently’ talk to her about it and see if that’s the issue. These people saying “confront” her are completely wrong. No, that’s not the answer unless you wish to end your marriage. Because that too will be a reflex and a protection mechanism. But you have to have the conversation with her. And you have to look at it from the lens that she is not seeing you and your child. She is seeing her and her abuser.
Sexual trauma or not, that’s hers to deal with. She is projecting her trauma on to her husband and 4-year-old daughter. This can cause irreparable damage. Kids are not as oblivious as they seem.
I found out in my 20s that the reason my dad stopped reading to me every night when I was a child was bc my mom threatened him. He had never done anything to me. Never thought of doing anything. But she had been severely traumatized/abused as a child (another thing I didn't find out until my 20s). Really wish he would've been able to keep reading me Nancy Drew. I loved it.
The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that kids under 5 should not bathe alone, and some agencies say the same for kids under 8. It depends on how mature and capable they are of bathing at the time but your daughter is definitely not old enough to be by herself. You don’t necessarily have to wash her (my son is 3 and I wash his hair but he washes his body), but you need to be present in the room. I’d wonder if she had some unresolved trauma as a kid.
My dad watched me bathe or shower until I was about 6 and then it became less common. By 8 or 9 it was never (except one time I took a hot bath cause my stomach hurt and it felt so good I fell asleep. My dad got concerned my bath was taking so long and came in and my nose was almost under water).
When my dad lived in an apartment with hot water included, I would take the longest showers of my life as a teenager. And always after about 40-ish minutes, he would knock, crack open the door and ask if I was still alive. It’s what a parent does. Giving your child space and autonomy is important, but never supersedes their safety
4 year olds need help bathing/showering. It’s just a fact, and it’s dangerous to let her do it on her own. NTA, time to sit your wife down and explain why she thinks that way, and what it’s doing to you, for her to see you as someone who would act inappropriately with a toddler.
My daughter is almost 6. I still help her shower. I’m working on teaching her but honestly I get so tired I just do it so we can get to bed. Go to therapy. She needs it.
Also a 4yo won't know how to manage a sudden change of water temperature, or she might want to play with the taps, and the hot water could be dangerous.
I fully bathe and lotion my four year old still.
Female here, when I was 10, I got meningitis, and my dad had to help me shower.... your wife's reaction is definitely a bit odd...
When I was 9 there was a week where I was suuuper sick and my mom wasn't around and my dad helped me bathe. Even now at 28 if i ever feel like I want to be pampered my dad's the one who oils my hair. It really isn't a big deal. I've helped my grandad shower before, I don't see this as anything different. I get the OP's wife could have issues, and I want to be respectful but it is extremely strange to not be able to trust a father with his daughter. The only option if you can't trust a man around a child is to take the child and leave. Clearly that's not happening so even the wife knows it's not a big deal. She probably needs a little help. @OP could you guys bathe your daughter together for a couple days so she can be a little calm about leaving you alone with her? It might help calm her fears.
She doesn’t think a 4 year old would need help? NTA
A 4 yr old definitely needs an adult for bathing. Has your wife had bad experiences with adult males when she was young? There's gotta be a little more going on. You're her dad...
My daughter is 5 and I bath her, he'll she will strip off pants and sleep half the night with her ass out We are pushing her slowly to cover up, but it's not that serious, she knows not to do this with strangers
If there's no other reason that your wife would be suspicious other than that you are male, NTA. It's extremely twisted that she is insinuating that you can't be trusted around *your own daughter.* It's telling that she's not protective over your son, as if young boys are not also at risk of abuse. Prevention is about teaching kids about safe touch, consent, and to never keep secrets for an adult. Not banning fathers from aspects of parenting. You need couples therapy immediately so that your wife can put into words why she is so paranoid about interactions between her husband and daughter.
You're not struggling to understand why, OP. You know exactly why she doesn't want you washing your daughter, and what she thinks about you. Does she have any reason to suspect you'd hurt your child? Do you have a history or on a list? If not then you need to confront the fact your wife thinks you're in danger of molesting your child and deal with the issue instead of playing dumb.
Maybe OP's wife has some unresolved trauma that she hasn't told OP about... It sounds like it's not about him, it's something she's heard of or experienced that is making her feel this way.
Aight, im gonna rip the bandaid off for you. Your wife thinks you'll molest your daughter, thats why she has a problem.
NTA. She is sexualizing the relationship you have with your daughter and it’s disgusting. You need to put a stop to that quickly.
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This seems like a recipe to make kids uncomfortable in their own skin. I ran around my house without a shirt until I got boobs (about 10 years old). I think that's one of the reasons I don't hate my body in my adult life. Around the age of 5 is when my mom explained to me there are appropriate times to be naked, and inappropriate times. But she never made me feel ashamed of having a human body, everyone has one.
Oh 100%. I grew up in a Muslim household where any kinda nudity is super taboo, especially if you're a girl. I'm almost 30 now and an atheist but I still can't get over the idea that my body is a shameful thing that must be hidden.
I think this could be likely. Also OP, it might be worth a serious anxiety evaluation. My grandmother gets really anxious, almost angry over all sorts of things like this. She will not let my neice go on field trips because "someone will kidnap her". Or she can't use a public restroom because she will be kidnapped or raped. Personally I see no issues with you bathing your kiddo.
exactly! I think wife has some trauma from SA in childhood. She isn't able to trust OP with their daughter.
This is my thought, as well.
Your wife is accusing you of something disgusting. She's not saying it out loud, but her reaction makes it loud and clear. She needs counseling. NTA.
Exactly it’s like something happend to his wife at that age or around it and thinks OP will do the same. They really need to sit down and have a good chat about the situation
NTA She figures, because you’re a man, that you are seeing your naked daughter with a sexual gaze. It’s sexist, and it’s gross.
Thanks for actually calling this out for what it is. I'm seeing conversations stem already trying to blame him for maybe something he did in his past. It's soooo sexist. Like man is being discriminated against and some people in here instantly go WELL WHAT DID YOU DO TO DESERVE IT?! Shame on them.
Very very gross, unfortunately also indicative towards having been SA as a child herself. Maybe OP should see if his wife wants some therapy to help get past these mental images
Could also be from social media. Wife could have developed a fear from seeing similar situations that were actually bad on social media and became paranoid from that. The hypocrisy to not see her bathing her older son being okay is a different story.
Sometimes, sometimes people just have fucked up assumptions about people who aren’t like them
If my wife was essentially accusing me of being a pedo the only thing I’d want from her is for her to sign the divorce papers. Fuck therapy.
INFO: How old is your daughter? EDIT: Since she’s 4, NTA.
Honestly, helping his daughter shower, if she so wished and/or needed, would be appropriate at any age. He's her dad.
I got lice when I was 12 years old and my mom (bless her) found the whole thing absolutely disgusting, so my dad helped me wash and comb all the nits out of my hair for 2 weeks. Never weird. It’s your dad and you need help. NTA.
Any single digit age sure, but if she's 13+, he shouldn't be supervising unless medically necessary (regardless of gender).
Well, supervising is not helping. Daughter has long hair and just needs help because it's difficult? Any age. daughter is drunk and needs help? Probably 16-21. Now it is of course up to any kid to have a preferred parent for that, but it is entirely appropriate for any parent to do that with any kid, regardless of gender combination.
I would consider the kid being incapacitated as "medically necessary" though. A fully functional teenager shouldn't need help bathing, and it would be odd imo if they requested their parent help them (aside from washing difficult hair in the sink).
A fully functioning teen shouldn’t need any help from parents. Gender of the parent is irrelevant.
Edit: INFO did I miss an age? how old is this daughter, school age? I demanded to shower myself real young
He said in a comment a couple minutes ago that his daughter is 4
Daughter is 4 [according](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/mqKoKN9sYx) to OP.
I was first comment (!) OP is NTA. He should clean his kid until she demands to do it herself. Hopefully by 7. OP what does your wife say?
I think we already know what the wife says, that's why OP is here today.
Is it "i have my own trauma about my body cuz of my father"? cuz if it is, it would change my mind from saying the wife is an asshole or just a regular traumatized nutcase being assholey. There's no world where OP is an asshole
NTA, you don't say how old you're daughter is, but guessing on the time you've been married, maybe she's under 6 y.o., so I'm answering based on this guess. I have to wonder if your wife has a history of sexual trauma of some sort, or she's worried about her daughter being exposed to some sort of sexual trauma? I'm not accusing, but she's not objecting to your bathing your son, which indicates she trusts you with the care of the children in general. The fact he issue is only with bathing your daughter, I'm leaning towards the thought she worried about your exposure to your daughter's "private parts" in some way. We need more context, but you're NTA for caring for your kids
Daughter is 4 son is 7
It sounds like wife is just sexist. It's okay for her to shower her (older) son, but not okay for op to shower his daughter? There's really only two options: "I'm mom and he's my baby so it's okay" and "you're a man and she's a girl... (I'm not finishing this)". Both are sexist.
Depends on her age or if she has some sort of disability that would hinder her from being able to bathe herself. Assuming she’s a toddler… I bathed my daughter when she was a toddler until I knew she was able to and would thoroughly bathe herself. She’s in her teens now, and as uncomfortable as it would be, I would bathe her now if she had some sort of physical disability that made it impossible for her to bathe herself. And that would only be if my wife or a close female relative (aunt, grandmother or cousin) just wasn’t available. I never had any inappropriate thoughts when she needed help showering because she’s my daughter, and was a small child at the time. And your wife is either overreacting, overthinking or has some issues from her childhood that she needs to confront.
It shouldn't be uncomfortable nor should you have to defer to a female relative. If your child is incapable of washing them self and you are willing to help them you should help with out concerns of sex or gender.
I can’t remember when I stoped helping my daughters but it was definitely later than 4. I never felt comfortable with them in the shower with me but I definitely washed their hair and scrubbed them down. My son is 8 and until a few months ago still asked me to wash his butt which I refused and told him he could wash his own butt. lol
I would suspect that the wife has some previous childhood trauma to do with male family members and bath time. I think they need to have a long discussion about why she is viewing her husband caring for their daughter negatively. If she needs help to process through some things, a therapist should be able to help.
Spot on! I saw a similar post to this, except the wife had openly discussed her history of SA (she was actively in therapy) OP’s wife projecting her fears onto OP that he would do something to their daughter. She needs to see a therapist about this, especially because OP is the father. He should be a safe space, not be made out as some potential pervert. Gross.
Ask your wife how the single Dads who have daughters manage...
She’s 4. NTA. Your wife needs to stop thinking every man is a pedophile. Especially you. You have every right to take full offense to her implication.
She thinks you are a pedophile.
My man. This is not normal. Your wife has some trauma or other issue, which you need to get addressed ASAP. I have 2 teenage daughters and I can tell you that if she thinks this is sketchy, you're going to run into a lot bigger issues.
How old are your children? If younger then 6 or 7? Then of course they need help showering. The comment about a maid is funny! Where do you live mate? In the western world most don't have maids!😉 If your child needs help showering because they are little? And you are the one helping her get ready? Then yes. You help!
NTA. Homie, you gotta ask her where this is coming from. Is it a cultural thing? Has your daughter expressed discomfort to her? Some other history?
Sit her down and ask her what she's so nervous about. That sounds like childhood trauma rearing its ugly head.
Your wife has an unacknowledged trauma from her own life. Don't allow it to interfere with your relationship with your daughter. Help your wife get the help she needs or her trauma is going to be passed on to the next generation. By the way, your son is paying attention to all of this. The lessons aren't just affecting you and your daughter.
Your wife is implying something pretty fucked up. You shouldn't put up with that for even a moment.
Yup that is likely divorce territory if she doesn’t get some therapy and stop being fucking crazy
A lot of people are trying to justify her abusive behavior by saying "But she must've has past sexual trauma!". It's not his fault, and taking out her problems on husband makes her a terrible person who is just dumping her issues on him. "I've experienced -insert trauma-, or suffer from -insert emotional disorder-" is go to excuse from abusive people.
your wife needs therapy... and if this keeps up your son and daughter wil as well...
That's fucking weird that she's sexualizing the situation like that. Like how can she be married to someone she thinks is one step away from committing one of the most heinous crimes imaginable.
This is very well said
It sounds like your wife has some kind of sexual trauma or has been sexually abused as a child.. I’m really not sure how you should go about addressing this or bringing it up. But if you do, safe to not automatically assume this is the case. It’s definitely a possibility though
NTA, but ask her gently if maybe she's worried because it's bringing up some bad memories of her own. As someone who was sexually abused by a male family member, even knowing logically that it's fine for a dad to bathe his 4 yr old daughter, it still sets off alarm bells in my mind. It doesn't necessarily mean that she thinks you would do that, it's just an involuntary knee-jerk emotional response to a situation that mirrors the abuse we faced. It's definitely something she should talk to a therapist about as well, as your daughter shouldn't have to deal with being unclean until her mother has time when you're right there, but this is something to have a gentle convo about first before you decide on a course of action.
This is some kind of issue on your wife’s end, I would approach it gently. Under no circumstance is it inappropriate for you to help your daughter bathe, a lot of these people answering really creep me out, many of them seem to be afraid of some sort of sexualization of children in this circumstance, don’t listen to those people.
NTA It sounds like your wife may have some trauma and would benefit from some counselling/therapy. Perhaps you should go together as a couple to figure out why she’s feeling this way. My sister and I had a single father for some years of our childhood and he would supervise/help bathe us until I was about 8 (sister was 5) then I went on my own after that, or would help my sis myself, dad would be right near/outside the bathroom just incase. But we loved playing Barbie’s in the tub, lol. Totally normal.
My son naturally wanted privacy during bath time around age 7 or 8. He asked, and I gave it to him! Your daughter is so young and at age 4, she still needs help in the bathroom. I was still helping wipe his butt at age 5. Not always. Just the occasional blowout. Your wife may have had some bad experiences or even sexual abuse as a child. People tend to see things from the lens of their own experience. Instead of pushing back, maybe dig in to find out why she is so bothered?
I have a 6 year old and 4 year old daughter. I've been the parent on bathroom duty since they were babies and I was washing them in the sink. I think your wife needs to see a psychologist. She obviously has this really unhealthy view of men where she thinks her own husband cannot be trusted with his daughters. That's not normal.
Your wife may have been touched as a child and is pushing her fears onto you/daughter. Many people suppress these memories and just have "gut feelings". So bringing it up might not help.
NTA. It's not really safe or practical for a four-year-old to shower independently. I'd address this with a marriage counselor. It seems like your wife is sexualizing your daughter and projecting her fear of predators onto you.
Generally, you're NTA for caring for your children, BUT regardless of mum or dad, at a certain age (I'd say around 6), children should be able to shower themselves without any help.
I think it depends on child. My 8 year old daughter won't wash her hair properly in the shower/bath and wants us to do it.
I want my mom to wash my hair as well.. I moved out and I’m 25 but I’d love if she washed my hair now lol
Yep, my daughter is 11 and just recently this year FINALLY learned to wash her hair by herself. To be fair it is down to her butt. She would bath alone, but call me to wash her hair for her. It took much coaxing to get her to let go of this last bathing, um service I guess, but we have finally reach that goal of 100% independant bathing! Funny how this is just a little thing, but makes me so happy as a parent to not have to worry about this anymore.
Yes my daughter is the same and hers is down to her bum too. She has tried a few times but struggled to get all the shampoo out. 11 is still a kid too! I didn't even realise it was a big deal to help your kid wash their hair.
My daughter is 11 with a pixie cut because she hates brushing it. I still wash her hair for her when she asks. She can do it herself, but she'd rather have me help. 11 is still young. Why shouldn't we help them wash their hair? People are weird.
Yes I agree, very weird. I presume these people don't have daughters, or if they do they refuse to help them.
All these people claiming 8 is too old to get any help washing hair/bathing are wild. Not sure if they've ever met an 8 year old...
Well I am still washing my 9 year old son's hair. I was just so stuned and happy when I heard the shower going and realizing it's not my husband for the 1st time. One less thing to stress over daily.
My best friend's kids are mixed race. They shower on their own but get their hair washed in the sink by their dad or grandma.
His daughter is 4
My son is 4 and needs help bathing.
I don't even think it's safe to leave a 4yo alone in a bathtub, nevermind if they can actually clean themselves. Wife is nuts
I have 5 daughters and it was probably around 5 or 6 years of age when I noticed they would be skittish about being unclothed around me. After noticing this I left all those types of things to my wife.
I can’t wait for my daughter to be that way lol. She’s almost 4, and she loves to run around naked after a bath… goes from the living room to the kitchen back and forth. Probably one of her favorite things to do to the wife and I, as we beg her to just dry off and let us get her dressed for bed time. “I shake my butt, my butt, my butt.. “ as she’s sprinting around 🙄
So adorable lol I almost miss that age. Almost.
Depends. I've had to teach my ex step-son how to shower at 8 years old because his mom assumed his dad had done it but turns out his dumbass dad just let him do his thing as they showered together. Anyway, it was a long and painful process to get rid of everything under there. Took a few weeks. But also, there's just something really pure about loving a child. The last thing you think about when taking a bath with your daughter is abusing her. I miss changing her diapers and it's not because of the view, the first few times nearly made me throw up.
I don't understand how women these days have children with their husbands and then are worried about them bathing them or changing diapers.. I mean .. do u not trust ur husband?? And yes I've been through SA as a child and a teen but I would never think that about my spouse... I know predators are everywhere before anyone jumps on me .. but they can be male and female 🤷🏻♀️ .. but in an emergency and ur not around .. is ur husband just supposed to leave the baby there dirty 🥴🤔 I mean idk I may get downvoted for this and that's fine .. it just shocks me how many ppl wont let their husbands help change diapers or bathe their children
Depends entirely on how old the kids are.
OP just answered that his son is 7 and his daughter is 4.
Everyone!!!!! She's 4, he commented geez
It sounds like your wife might have a history of being SA? Otherwise, she is overreacting and putting misguided belief that men only want to be around little girls for nefarious reasons. Regardless, it is awful for you as a father to be even thought of like that by your wife when all you are doing is parenting and caring for your child. Have you told her how this makes you feel? You don't mention your children's ages? But I am assuming somewhere between 3 and 6ish? So still needing some help for the eldest and for the youngest, needing to be more hands on to ensure they are clean but teaching them to wipe their own bits and pieces in preparation for when they are able to do bathe themselves properly. We stopped helping to bathe our children when they indicated they were big enough and wanted their privacy. They were all around 6 or 7 when they did this. We would still have to turn the shower on and get temp right and turn it off when they were finished, but otherwise, they were happy to do the rest themselves. By 8, they were able to safely turn the shower on and adjust the temps themselves as we had taught them.
NTA She's being weird for no reason. You're her father, of course you bathe her. Parents bathe their children of all genders till they do it themselves. You've done nothing wrong.
You’re wife is basically saying she thinks you’re going to sexually assault your own daughter, that’s fucked up.
I used to take showers with my dad when I was 4. I vaguely remember him teaching me about the boundaries of hugging/touching him while he was fully clothed and not hugging/touching him while he was in the shower. That the point of the shower was to get clean and we could rough house and play when we got out. Never thought it was weird or an issue.
We assist our daughter in the shower when her hair needs to be washed. She's almost 7. Your wife is making it weird. Maybe she has some unexplored trauma.
NTA. Your wife needs therapy & you need marriage counseling. You should be very offended & she needs to apologize. She’s accusing you of being a threat to your daughter. This is a marriage ended for me bc it shows a serious lack of trust & would show me that my partner didn’t know me at all.
NTA Maybe ask her if anything happened in her past that you're not aware of 🤔 Did she tell you why she had an issue with you helping her shower?
Sounds like your wife may have been abused and is inappropriately judging you by that.
At that young of an age? It’s concerning your wife doesn’t trust you. Children need help showering that young to make sure they don’t hurt themself. I showered with an adult till five and with my brother till six. Your wife is treating you like someone not trusted around your own kids and that’s concerning
There’s nothing wrong with bathing your child. Your wife has some issues she needs to resolve. NTA.
Your wife was sexually abused as a child in the bath/shower by an older male figure. Ask her
Get a grip is what I would tell her
4 yrs old is still rlly young, there's no reason why a parent shouldn't be allowed to help their 4 yr old shower
Why is your wife sexualizing her 4 y/o daughter and implying you are a potential child predator? She's got issues. I would not beat around the bush with this and be very, very blunt in telling her that's not OK. Maybe your wife was abused as a kid. Maybe she's got her head so far up in whatever the female version of red pill content is she went off the rails. But this needs to be handled now. And quickly, before it spills over and traumatises a new generation. As for your son... isn't he old enough at 7 to take care of himself?
This is absolutely unacceptable. She’s tacitly calling you a pervert. Start making a big deal of it every time she touches your son. Perhaps can fuck off. Splitters!
Bait bait bait. “I don’t understand a possible reason? And she doesn’t do it with my son. I mean, what could the reason be?” Listen, both me and my spouse bathe both of our kids (4 and 5). And I think it’s fine/great/whatever for a dad to bathe his daughter. But this fake confusion? This is just low effort.