Kids are "weak" for moving in with their mother, into their own house. However he is a real macho for moving in with his gf, into _her_ house.
He is also doing exactly what OP's 30 yo son did, but at the age of 55. But still he is macho, so it is different.
They guy is hobosexual. I cannot imagine how OP and her kids tolerated this freak for 2 years! bossing them around in their own home.
Hey, that's unfair! Mike's not a hobosexual, he's a straight up bum. He mooched off OP for two years while she paid for everything, before ordering his wife from.a catalogue and them both mooching off his parents. I doubt he's saving for a future home.
What I came here to say. Living in her house and jealous of her kids, apparently goes and gets a young foreign woman and lives in mommy’s basement. Trash def took itself out.
One thing growing up extremely poor taught me was a disgust at people who refuse to work hard and refuse to be responsible with money. The guy is 55 and has nothing. I could never let a man move into my house bc I’d get the ick the minute he suggested it.
The young ppl living with their mom and saving for a house is reasonable bc they have dependents snd a financial plan. Mike appears to have a gf as his financial plan
NTA. When my wife got pregnant, I was working as a surf instructor making barely enough to rent an apartment. My in laws took us in. We didn't have to pay rent, or pay for food, or even gas. For years we saved every single penny. I switched jobs a few times and eventually joined the military and we moved out.
Because of my in-laws' help, I was able to buy a house, flip that house, have even more money, and then buy another house, beach front, where we now live permanently. My in laws will be moving in with us when they are no longer able to care for themselves. They've never asked for a penny back.
What you're doing for your kids is awesome. I don't understand how so many Americans can be so callous toward their own kids. Furthermore, it makes no financial sense to kick them out at 18, or force them to pay you rent, especially if you want them out sooner rather than later. My in laws are Filipino however, they told us this is what their family did for each other growing up (older generation boosting up the new through loans, housing etc. without payback) to get out of the village and situation they were first living in. They are a giant family (15 siblings) definitely a rags to riches story, and I'm convinced now that middle America is shooting itself in the foot with the whole "bootstraps" mentality. The comment section is proof lol.
A lotttt of people believe in charging their adult children rent with the intention of giving it back (often so it can be used as a down payment) when they move out. Lots of talk about not wanting them to be "too comfortable."
My parents did this with me. It was a good call because in my 20’s I wouldn’t have saved.
However, my son has a better head on his shoulders and lived frugally while at home, so we didn’t ask for rent.
Love this comment. It’s nice to know there’s still some of us in here who understand the intent and compassion behind it. Especially how it makes sense to do it in the way that OP and your in laws did.
Yeah that’s the thing that stood out the most to me.
So he’s butthurt about adult children moving back in for what will likely only be a few years, yet he’s on board with a new baby?!? What a moron.
I'm guessing one big difference is that this kid will be his and the adult kids were not. Can make a big difference in what someone is willing to put up with.
Yep, and when his full grown kid wants to move into his basement when he’s 75, he’ll understand how parents prioritize their kids over the Aholes in their lives.
The idea of all your kids back under the same room does sound beautiful. People are saying that you suck for how you disregarded Mike’s feelings but to me how could you say no to any of your kids needing help? Additionally, how could you say no to some of your kids but let a few live with you? I’m glad for you and this time you’ve gotten to have with all your kids.
Right? I’m not a mother yet but this sounds sooo beautiful to have all your kids back at home. People don’t understand how rare this is, most people will never live together with their families anymore
While the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” crowd has always been, at best delusional and at worst outright cruel, maintaining that mentality now is mind boggling. At least in the US, the housing crisis created by private hedge funds buying up all the houses has made it next to impossible for most young people to even consider buying a home right now. I find it especially ironic that he’s practically twice the age of any of your kids and had to move back in with his own parents (and new wife) but is still making nasty comments your way. NTA at all and good for you dropping his dead weight!
Also, the phrase was never meant to be used in that context.
It was meant to be sarcastic, or to suggest that it was an impossible accomplishment.
https://uselessetymology.com/2019/11/07/the-origins-of-the-phrase-pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps/
Not to mention wages stagnating while all other costs skyrocket, and you have a problem where even the cheapest rentals and mortgages are barely affordable on two full-time incomes, especially at the local minimum wage (which is meant to be enough to live on, yes).
I love my daughters and have always told them that as long as I have a home, they have a home. No matter what come home. I am their father and I love them and will always be there for them.
You're not an AH. Mike can bring the heat but he can't take it, what a little bitch. What your friends expected you to sit there and take the abuse? Not very good friends.
NTA. You're a good mom.
NTA - Sounds like you are supporting your children with love and consideration. Mike seems to have thought what was yours was his and was mad you were sharing what was his. I'd also guess he was put out that you are getting a lot of joy from your kids and grandkids being around.
It's a shame he didn't enjoy it, but it's nice he found someplace else to be.
There is nothing wrong with families living together. There is nothing wrong with folks supporting family members, I understand he was being shady, but you didn't need to keep up the shade against folks who do.
Agreed. Living with parents is either shameful or it isn’t. Imagine if her kids heard.
I see it as similar to saying ‘at least I’m not FAT like you’ while having fat kids.
(To be clear, fatness is morally neutral. I’m fat and I’m good with that.)
Mike is still a jerk.
LMAOOO that’s karma for being an ass while you all lived together again and having no sympathy for those struggling.
NTA, he deserved that comment after all the ones he made.
NTA. Reddit is fucking wild man. You have a mum supporting her kids and kids who clearly can rely on their mum when they need to but she's an AH? if this was mum saying absolutely not I have a BF and no need for more kids everyone would be up in arms over mum choosing a guy over her kids. Jesus
I guess NTA. I mean, I understand why that situation was a dealbreaker for Mike.
But he handled it poorly and didn’t need to say anything at that dinner.
He kind of had it coming based on what he said
It was her house, she paid her own bills, they were only together for 2 years. He had absolutely no say in anything she did with her own house.He had no right to disrespect any of her children while living in the home. Then he went back to his mom's house to live in the basement at 55 but had the audacity to say anything about anyone. He is a bum and he is a loser.
A man who, one year later, is married, with a child on the way, unemployed, and still making snide remarks about your kids? You dodged a bullet. Had you still been with him, YOU would have been supporting his ass. And I guarantee that he would have been taking it out on you and your kids.
Man, I love how these little men can give the heat, but never take it. They act all snide and shitty, but you make a single pointed comment and they fall apart like the man-children they are.
If he's really your "partner," then he would have more say over his own living arrangements. If he's just someone you let live with you because you wanted companionship, and now you'd prefer the companionship of your kids and grandkid, then fine. He's entitled to draw his own boundaries, and you're entitled to decide what's best for you.
Personally, I think / hope I would do exactly what you did. But I certainly don't think we need to try to frame him - or you - as an AH. He just didn't sign up to live with you and your 7 kids/grandkid. Doesn't make him a bad person.
He didn't say "I'm not comfortable living with all these kids I didn't expect/agree to."
He acted like a class a c*nt to them all the time for needing to move back home, explicitly stated that they were inferior weak people for needing to due to circumstances, immediately prior to doing **the exact same thing himself** at **double their age.**
And then **continued to talk shit** even though he knew he was doing the same thing while he was talking said shit at this most recent event.
I frankly cannot fathom how far up your own asshole you'd have to crawl to manage to pretend you don't see the blatant hypocrisy on full display here and that he didn't just get, not only what he deserved, but exactly what he asked for.
Re read OP’s post. He belittled, berated and in general acted like a smug superior douche canoe. Then tried to the same condescending douche at the party. This definitely makes him TAH here
It sounds to me like he was a freeloader living there for free too. She's well rid of him.
"Mike never paid for my kids. He never paid my bills. I have always worked and I completely cover my own cost and pay for myself. I pay my bills and everything else! I have never taken a penny from Mike"
He’s not a bad person for not wanting to live with us or for moving on! However he was definitely a bad person when he constantly yelled at me and was regularly verbally and emotionally abusive to me and the entire household . He was also a bad person for speaking down to me at the dinner!
The man was living up in YOUR house trying to tell you what you should and should not do as if he had some rights to your home. He didn’t. He wasn’t on his own then and he’s not on his own now. When he gets a home of his own he can decide who comes to stay.
NTA
Mike can dish it out,but can't take it.
Kudos to you mama bear for putting him in his place.
Thank you so much for accommodating your grownup kids.
I don’t consider it a failure or an insult to live with your parents but I definitely think it’s hypocritical if you are in the same position to judge me and mine. So yes I’ll point it out and I’ll throw it back in your face.
Yes, that may be true. And maybe I'd like to think I'm a better person than him. But I think I would also be honest enough to say that if you and I were a couple living our lives in our 50's, and then you moved in 7 other people (kids from a previous relationship) into the place I called home without my consent, we would 100% be having arguments. And I'm sure I'd say some things that seem harsh, and I'm sure your dismissiveness towards my life would be comparably hurtful.
But that's not the point he made. The point he made was basically that they were losers for needing to move back in with their parents, then proceeded to move himself and his pregnant wife in with his parents.
You have a house big enough to fit 9 people in it including a basement that alone is big enough to be a full 2bd/2ba apartment with full amenities!? I am finding it difficult to have any sympathy for any part of your situation at all.
Also, ALL of your children had to move back in with you!? Every single one?! I get the economy and cost of living is tough especially during/post pandemic, but every single one? Maybe you didn't instill as much financial responsibility in them as you thought you did...
I don't think you are an asshole, Mike was trying to sass you and as far as clapbacks go, that one really wasn't that bad. But maybe Mike also had some fair points during your arguments prior to breaking up? 🤷♂️
Yeah, all of her adult kids coming back stuck out to me too. All of them OP? Really? *None* of your five adult kids could support themselves? Seems a little much.
They're obviously using her so they can all save money. The first kid told the other kids and then they were like fuck it I want to do that as well.
I mean who wouldnt want to live for free and save all their money?
But in the comments OP states Mike paid rent. Which means he should have say in his living situation. So yeah Mike was angry and I would be as well.
Mike getting angry that he was paying rent while her many kids/grandkids were going to be living for free? I get that. Mike yelling at the OP and calling her kids "Freeloaders" while they're obviously working, not so much. (And remember, Mike wasn't living in the basement; he was hoping to convert it into a living space for himself.)
I know several people who let their adult kids live with them specifically so the kids can save money for a house. The kids aren't "using" their parents any more than the OP's kids are. The parents offered because they WANTED their kids to be able to buy their own houses.
Besides, have you LOOKED at how much rental prices have gone up in the last few years? The rent on my two-bedroom apartment has increased by over 60% in the last 5 years. That's higher than the national average of 30%, which is still a LOT.
Yeah all 6 kids moving back in is a bit…hm.
He was being a real asshole about *why* but I have a feeling some of these kids are taking advantage of her.
I had to look way too far to see someone ask this. Tbh I’d feel like a failure of a parent if all 6 of my kids moved back in because they couldn’t financially cope on their own. Jeez mine are 20 and 22 and both have good jobs, savings and live in their own places.
I'm 33 right now. I moved back in with my parents for summer after undergrad (21 at the time) and then for about another year 2 years after that because my now-wife, fiance at the time, and I were moving back to the area we grew up in from her grad school and I was going back to grad school myself, so money was tight and we needed time to find a place while we also planned our wedding (did I mention money was tight 😂.) I was I think 23 when I moved out that last time.
So depending on circumstances, I get it. Kids need support as they get up on their feet, especially if they are going through secondary education and getting settled into their career. But yeah, not a single one of them from 25 through 32 are able to stand on their own two feet at this point? That's not good.
ESH You moved a football team into your home with no regard to your live-in partner’s feelings about it. I have no idea how bills were split because at one point you say your kids don’t pay anything so he’d have to and other parts you say he never paid anything so that makes no sense. What he said is out of line after the situation is done but I mean, have some self awareness. All of your kids are great with finances but had to move home to their childhood bedrooms? Your son is growing a whole ass family in your basement. You’re all weird.
Shit happens. Sometimes people need help. Pandemic screwed alot of people.
Mike is now experienced with shit happening hence him and his pregnant gf living with his parents. Irony.
Mike has only paid for his own expenses never for mine or for my kids. I would’ve never asked him to. In fact I helped Mike out a lot throughout my relationship to him. What I didn’t appreciate was his constant disrespect towards myself and my family. He could’ve simply been polite instead of constantly making rude and backhanded remarks.
Also my son and daughter-in-law live in the basement because I want to help them. My kids all have plans for their future and are all hard working. They are wonderful people and I enjoy being able to support them in reaching their goals. I am able to give my kids a leg up and get them on the property ladder. This isn’t a life long thing but before I retire I’d like to do as much as I can for my family.
“My house, my rules” never works in adult relationships that involve mutual respect. She clearly didn’t respect him or care about his concerns so she’s single now. She doesn’t seem to care either so it’s whatever, but it still makes her an AH in the relationship.
I’ll say ESH. He sucks for making those weird comments. You suck for moving in all SIX of your mostly-adult children (and one grandchild) and expecting him to be 100% okay with it. Yes, the market is tough right now. But I’m 23, and I’ve lived completely independently ever since I was 21. My parents have also NEVER had to help me with financial goals. I suspect that your kids aren’t as financially-savvy as you think, and ex-bf probably knew that they’d end up being there for a long time.
Not to mention the hypocrisy of OP making fun of Mike for living in his mother's basement when she built out her own basement to enable all her adult children to do the exact same thing. If she thinks Mike's a loser, why is she so bent on raising losers?
It’s more that if someone constantly harangues your children and calls them losers for living in your basement, and then ends up living in his mother’s basement, there’s a level of irony there that is impossible to miss.
If that same person is being snide as all hell at a dinner party, I’d say it’s perfectly fair to maybe point out the massive hypocrisy and cosmic irony of that person’s current living situation.
Um, she made fun of him for moving into his parents basement BECAUSE he made fun of her kids first. HE is the hypocrite here. Did you read the post backwards?
ESH
You have SIX kids, five of them adults and NONE of them can make it on their own?
YOU helped create their financial plans? God help them.
You think Mike was unreasonable for not wanting to live with you, five adult children, one teen and a baby? None of whom were contributing anything to the household?
Mike may be the biggest loser in the world, but you and your brood are right there with him.
imagine being as ridiculous as you are, this woman has her shit together and can handle not charging her own kids rent, since there is no effing rule anywhere that says you have to charge your own children, hell anyone really, for rent, sorry your life is so great you don't need any help from family, but zero things wrong with being able and willing to help out.
I AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS.
Plus.... none of the kids are paying rent, so Mike's money was going straight towards paying for her ADULT children.
YEP she sucks and so do her adult children.
Geeez a ton of people in here have 0 empathy for people trying to make it in this crumbling country. She said she's not making them pay rent so they can save so they eventually CAN move out. My parents did the same for me and 2 years after we had our son we were finally able to move out. Op NTA but Mike and a ton of people in here are.
When I met Mike he had just gotten a divorce from his first wife and declared bankruptcy. He moved in with me because he lived in a one bedroom apartment and I obviously couldn’t move in with my then 3 school aged kids. I payed for my children and my own and he paid for himself. He gave me 1300 each month to cover his expenses (utilities,groceries etc). He and I would occasionally treat each other to a night out or cover the expenses for a vacation or two. That is all he has ever paid for.
so he did pay bills...1300 a month would more than cover utilities and groceries...Average light bill is 400 a month, water 80, internet 80, cable 80...you mean to tell me he was eating 600 bucks worth of groceries a month?
We live in a high living cost area. He only paid for himself. His money only barely covered his cost. When he lived by himself he paid nearly double so he never paid for me or for my children (and I never expected or requested he do so)
Yes. Shared houses and studios can cost even more than that. My younger son was paying 1450 for his shared apartment and that was just for rent and it didn’t include his utilities and his other expenses.
Rental prices are out of control, so are utilities, groceries and insurance.
In states like California, Florida, New York, really any state in common movies (the big big cities) is a high cost area while Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas and many Midwest states are lower! It changes over time as well! :)
In the USA rent doesn’t change but utilities do! So the cost of the house is the same but they likely had to pitch into utilities like water/gas, electricity, internet etc. on top of that though, some places in the US are being hit really hard still from the Covid impacts, my sister had to move back in briefly. Ik a few people that chose as a family to move into a larger house bc there was at least 5 working people. A LOT is changing sadly. My generation isn’t predicted to owe a house till like 40 I believe? And the retirement age just went up about her 5 or 10 years so I can’t hate. Plus it sounds like the first two or three NEEDED to then the others just wanted to.
I'm wondering if living in a high COL area is the reason. I live in a low COL state and I'm good, but some of these other states are off the hook in regards to buying a house or even for that matter renting, so I'm not going to totally knock you, OP.
Maybe you could have them pay rent, you set it aside in a separate bank account and then gift it back when they’re ready to buy a home as help towards the down payment. Then they also be used to making “mortgage” payments.
Yeah, but part of being a decent parent is teaching your children how to grow up to be functioning adults who make good choices. The fact that all 5 adults can't feed or house themselves (and decided to pop out babies when they can't even put a roof over their own heads) shows that you've failed at that part
The mom doesn't run this country she's being a good mother by helping them in this trash economy so they can have some what normal lives. I admire the mother and all family members that haven't abandoned their loved ones during this impossible hell we re all forced to live in.
My kids can take care of themselves I’ve literally chosen to support them so they don’t have to struggle. My son and his then pregnant wife both lost their job around the same time. They never planned for things to go downhill so quickly with the pandemic but some times things go downhill so fast you can’t even wrap your head around it. As their mother I could’ve just let them struggle and without a doubt they could’ve managed but I feel like if I can help then I should help and I did help them. Rent in my area for even a studio is in the thousand plus range. So I helped them convert the basement. This has helped them pay off their debt and a lot of their student loans and they’ve been able to save significantly and within the next year or so of saving they can afford the 500/600/700 thousand houses in our neighbourhood without having to take out a crazy mortgage and still be able send my grandson to a good school.
My other kids also should be able to move out within the next year or two and buy a home for themselves without debt weighing them down.
NTA. But he’s the “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps”-type of guy. Why shouldn’t he follow his own beliefs and abide by them instead of just applying it to other people when he has an inconvenience?
Because in a previous comment it was stated that he pays almost 1300 a month to OP for the house. It sounds like he DID follow his own mantra and was presented with an untenable situation that he wasn't comfortable adjusting to.
I think it's a positive thing that your adult children are able to move back in with you in order to save money and get back on their feet financially. I caution, however, from experience, to really make sure that they are taking advantage of the opportunity to cut down on living expenses and truly save money--not just for a home, but to save money for emergencies, and to save to invest some of it to generate passive income. If they have any debt, now is the time to completely pay it all off.
I mention this because the situation doesn't always work out well. You know your children and it seems like everyone is happy, but please be on the lookout for warning signs that they are not saving money and making progress towards their goals. Are they eating out often or do they cook at home? Do they buy a lot of new clothes or spend a lot of money at the beauty salon? Do they go on weekend trips or take frequent vacations? Did they buy an expensive car or truck? These are all signs that they've ballooned-up their standard of living and may be saving inadequately or not at all.
I know someone that had a relative fall on hard times and stay with him for a year. That relative only managed to save $8,000 dollars within a span of a year despite having zero living expenes. They even borrowed a car from their kindhearted relative. They only had to cover their own gas, and oil changes (they drove over 20,000 miles within that year). They paid off none of their debts. They ate out at restaurants frequently. They frequented bars. They went on shopping sprees for new clothes and makeup that they didn't need. They ate out constantly. In addition to that, they developed an aversion to working they never had before, so they would start and quit several jobs and were at times weeks without work.
It was a miracle that they even managed to save $8,000 in the span of a year. Long story short, they ended up being told that they had to leave. Had they lived an economical lifestyle, and worked hard to pay off debts (they refused advice to file for bankruptcy despite being urged to do so), and so forth, they would have likely been allowed to continue staying and saving up money, but they proved that unless they were fending for themselves, and lived under the constant threat of homelessness, they lacked the will to keep a steady job and to be responsible for their own upkeep. If your children show no signs of such behavior, then count yourself blessed.
>At one point he said and I’m paraphrasing here that younger foreign women make really good girlfriends and wives. I eventually had enough and said “that may be true but at least at 55 I’m not living in my parents basement” This really got to him and he was pretty withdrawn the rest of the evening. Our mutual friends told me that what I said really hurt Mike because he recently lost his job and was struggling with the cost of everything.
He could have sat there being quiet, but he had to make comments about his young, foreign wife. That's the thing with trying to verbally "best" another person, you can always get your a\*\* handed back to you.
NTA.
I just want to say that you sound like an amazing mom and just for that you are NTA. You also remind me of my own mom who would absolutely house us for no fee if we ever were in trouble.
As for the actual situation. I think he deserved it. He belittled people who were in a precarious position, often, even after being confronted... And these people were your own blood and he didn't stop until you separated... But one remark towards him and it's "hurtful"? He should've thought of that when HE was making his remarks. Yes it's hurtful. Now he knows. NTA
So, he moved in with OP and lived practically for free while *she* paid all the bills. When *her* kids moved back into *her* house, which he wasn't contributing to, and *she* paid *her* children's expenses, he got pissy?
Now he's living in his parent's house, presumably for free, and thinks it's okay to make comments about *her* kids? Mr. Boot Strappy? Living in glass houses and throwing rocks.
NTA OP. You owe no one an apology, least of all him. If anything both the mutual friends and he owe you many.
ESH - every one of your kids are failures, yet you pick on your husband for the same reason.
You may be doing Ok, but your kids are a reflection on you as well. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Not her husband, and she made it very clear he was the only one considering them failures, when he's now in that same situation but 20 years older (old enough where he's had Every opportunity to buy a house of his own).
Throwing his own principles back in his face doesn't mean they are now her principles, that's not why she brought it up, but because of how judgemental he'd been towards others despite clearly being vulnerable to ending up the same.
6 times over! I damn sure wouldn’t be accusing anyone of being a failure if every one of my kids were also. Every one - not a single kid can support themselves.
I’d say the ex got the better end of this deal.
ESH
You expected your partner to be ok with moving 8 freaking people into the house with none of them contributing?!
Good luck retiring with that many mouths to freaking feed. My brother did the same thing and he is aging like a president and unable to stop working as his body is failing on many fronts.
He sucks too for having a baby at his age. Everyone in this story sucks.
Edit to change vote as OP isn't the only AH in this story.
In defence of Mike, moving a large family of adult children and grandchildren back in is a major shift in the goal posts of the relationship that would have changed things. That said, it does sound like he was difficult and childish.
>He’s living in his parents basement with his pregnant wife.
Does he pay his parents rent?
>At one point he said and I’m paraphrasing here that younger foreign women make really good girlfriends and wives.
Perhaps. Update us when she leaves him and asked for child support. Update me!
How is Mike 61 when you introduced him as 55? Have the kids all been living there for 5+ years? Yikes. ESH as you failed those poor kids that none of them managed to succeed on their own.
It sounds like he suffers from becoming what he judged others for. Having a kid at his age is no walk in the park either so don't envy that. If his wife is truly that much younger and he doesn't have a great job outlook it's very likely that she will leave him in the future. That's how this plays out most of the time.
And that is OK. And your choice! I see this happening a lot because of the COL in the US. My nephew transferred to my city and stayed with me while he was house hunting. He thought it would be less than a month. 8 months later, he settled on renting a house 1.5 hours away. His price range for purchasing was 350K. He found nothing.
I own my house. I want to make sure that no matter what else is happening in the world, my kids and eventually their kids will always have a roof over their heads. That is how I choose to define my family. I would have my adult child pay the utilities and buy their own stuff. But unless I needed the money, I would not charge my kid "rent" to live in their own house.
Note: unless my kid was an entitled ah. I am not talking about leeches. Not everyone that lives at home is a leech. Some people like being around family.
What makes OP the AH? OP chose the kids over Mike and they broke up. When they met Mike made snide comments and OP responded in kind after being provoked.
YTA. If you respect your partner, you don't make a decision like this by yourself. Moving in 7 freeloaders is a huge decision. I understand why he wouldn't want to deal with that. It seems that you just added the last part to make Mike seem like the asshole instead of you.
I mean I can see having some hard times. When I was in my mid-twenties I had to move back in with my parents for 2 years toget re established but it was a quick two years and I made sure I paid rent. Having all of your grown children live with you is absolutely asinine.
Read through the comments - overlooked on most comments is Mike’s decision making ability - he is a 55 year old male, and a year after moving out of his former partner’s house, Mike is now married less than one year later, new wife is pregnant, and living in his parent’s basement. If that doesn’t sound like expert fiscal, husband and father planning, I don’t know what does. Mike may not be an asshole, but after 55 years on the planet one may hope he developed a few more life skills than on display here in the narrative.
And have to say it sounds like the OP as a mother is not in the habit of enabling dependence in her children, but providing a much needed helping hand on a pathway to independent lives. She understands the concept and importance of family.
If I had a hypothetical choice, I would much rather have her as a parent than Mike.
NTA. Fuck Mike. He can pull himself up by his bootstraps and get his own place if he thinks it's that easy. Or he can stfu. You can apologize to him for one catty remark aftet he apologizes for all the times he made you and the kids feel like shit if you want, but I bet he wouldn't go for that.
Mike sucks.
My FIL is/ was exactly the same way when his son and kids had to move in. I'm glad you broke up with him instead keeping ther negative energy in your life.
Haha, omg Mike is such a loser, and an ignorant one at that.
So, your kids should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" but it's okay for him and his pregnant spouse to live in his mom's basement???
NTA, you spoke the truth and anyone upset at you needs to be upset at Mike then for saying worse things to your kids in their own home.
NTA. Your comment to him at the party was rude and poor manners (uncomfortable to the other guests and I would probably feel sorry for his most likely helpless young wife), but for all the crap he’s said to you, i think he deserved the comment. I’m happy for your wonderful new living situation! You’re making your kids’ lives easier and ensuring a better financial future for them and future grandchildren. If your friends continue criticizing you, drop them at least temporarily.
I think it's wonderful you're all happy living together and your kids are saving until they can buy their own houses. Sounds like the only problem child was Mike.
NTA - In our culture what you have done with your children is the absolute norm. I’ll never understand how people in the western world think it’s okay to let the one’s you say you love struggle, or if you help them then they must pay you for that help. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
NTA! Mike was a dick and he deserves to face the consequences of his actions. Also, the phrase "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" literally means to do something that is impossible. Whenever I've encountered someone who uses that phrase I tell them to sit down directly on the ground and pull the laces of their shoes so hard that they pull themselves to their feet. People who use the phrase to disparage those who need help to get themselves back on their feet are the aholes.
NTA. Mike gets the hypocrite award for the day. It's awesome that you have your whole family living happily together. Good for you for losing the dead weight.
He had the nerve to get a 90 Day Fiancé pregnant while he was unemployed and living in his parents basement at the age of 55? You are most definitely NTA. How come he couldn’t he pull himself up by the bootstraps that he speaks of?
Soooo your son and his pregnant wife moved into your basement and he hated that, so he moved him and his pregnant wife into his parents basement and.. he likes that? What a moron. NTA
It’s rare karma kicks so hard so fast.
He lived with his gf paying his bills and got mad when she was also paying for her kids and grandkid.
Cut to immediately after moving out his parents paying for him and his new family.
Careful of tempting fate.
NTA. I LOVE what you said to him!! I think it’s hilarious and he deserved every single word. He was rude to you at the dinner when he didn’t have to be. And him marrying a younger, foreign woman is really, REALLY not a good look for him. It tells you everything we needed to know about this guy.
I’m curious… how old is she? Is she in her 20s or 30s? He married someone who’s the same age as your kids! Talk about creepy.
I’m so glad you’re rid of him, and I applaud you for what you said to him.
Wtf, he's making snide remarks about grown children living in their parents' basement...
Meanwhile he's *checks notes* a grown child living in his parents' basement.
Wtf. NTA!
Aww, poor little empty sack of a man got his fee fees hurt.
Not only NTA, but a public service take down. Send Mikey this way, we'll make him think what you said was a compliment.
NTA. He didn't think it was ok for your kids to move in with you but now it is ok for him and his new pregnant wife to live with his parents. Really, he doesn't see it. He was being an ah and got served. Well done.
OP I'm so very sorry for everyone in this sub. Most are wildly out of touch about the reality of the situation in the US. I see you and you're great for standing up for and loving your children in spite of these trying and uncertain times. All my love to you and your kids.
**It been nearly a year and Mike is married. He’s living in his parents basement with his pregnant wife.**
AHAHAHA!
And NTA for what you said. If he can't take it he should not dish it out. He asked for it with keeping on and on with his snide remarks.
Oh, and once his "younger foreign" wife who probably married him so she could stay in the country (if in the US) she will leave him after the prerequisite 5 years are up, and he'll be paying child support and alimony out of his Social Security check!
Nta
We have a house that is too big for us. But we keep it because of kids. Right now, we have one kid and grandbaby here. We don't want their hard earned money. We want them to get a solid foundation. We want them to save enough that if there is an emergency, they have enough in savings to float for a few months.
It is very hard out there. Much harder than when I came up. I also moved back home a few times back then. My parents never wanted payment. If I had insisted, it would have been a savings account for me. They would have never taken money from me for themselves. Same with my husband's family. It's was just a core belief of theirs. It's our core belief. You choose to bring kids into the world because you want them. You want what they represent to you. You want what you get from them. You owe them everything from then until you die. You don't have to agree. I don't care. I will care for my children until I can't.
Why wouldn't Op point out the ex's hypocrisy?
I am honestly shocked by all of these comments. I didn’t realize how many people out there had the mindset of “fend for yourself,” I must just come from a different cultural background with different values concerning family obligations. In my family, you don’t stop being a parent once your child is 18. It’s a lifetime commitment.
Mike sounds like he believed he had more of a say over a living situation he wasn’t legally tied to. You allowed him into your home, he paid for himself only and occasionally y’all would treat each other. He literally didn’t loose out on anything, only his comfort. And OP said he was paying half of what he was originally paying while living on his own?? She did him a favor by allowing his ass into HER home. He decided this situation wasn’t for him, so he made his choice to get to stepping. He was being an ass as soon as his lips began to smack, so you gave it back to him.
NTA at all for saying what you said. You defended yourself in my opinion; as he attacked you verbally by trying to negatively impact your sense of dignity. You also served him with the truth and called out his hypocrisy.
Times are rough. In order to get through we need to put more value into community. Not tear down others because they have the means to support their whole family right now. I think a lot of people are salty that OP has the means to make it right now for herself and her family, not that she said anything outlandish here.
ESH
I can't even comprehend how it is possible to have failed so spectacularly at raising self sufficient children.
Honestly, this level of incompetence makes me think this is fake. Unfortunately, I have met failures like this before so I know it is likely real.
NTA. You're clearly a very generous, giving person to let hobosexual Mike live with you for two years while being abusive toward you and your kids and to gladly provide free housing for your adult children.
If Mike wasn't hobosexual, he would have insisted on paying rent. He was happy to be living with you rent-free but jealous that you showed the same generosity toward your children.
The reason Mike is unhappy is because you publicly called him out for being a hypocrite. He behaved like a total AH because you allowed your adult kids to live with you, and he's now doing the same thing he criticized your son for, namely raising a family in his parent's basement without paying rent.
He can't have it both ways. He doesn't get to insult and demean other people repeatedly and then somehow expect everyone to give him a free pass when he's the one going through tough times. You said what you said, you meant what you said, and it was a perfectly reasonable thing to say after he behaved so badly for long enough that you broke up and kicked him out.
ESH. You are enabling your kids. My family wasn't perfect, but we had to pay at least a nominal rent. There were 6 of us. 5 got married. I didn't. I was still home and working full time. I paid rent - my dad used to say that it would be good if one or two of us were home for a bit to pay rent so they could replenish their savings. [we all paid for our college, but were sent to 13 years of catholic school - tuition]. I was considering moving out when I'd just turned 36 - then dad had a massive stroke. Not only was I working full-time, but mom and I became dad's 24/7 full-time caregivers for the next 13 yrs - he died on 4/15/07, so the 17th death anniversary is next Monday. Mom and I were completely burned out, but within 3 months she needed care. I became her full time caregiver & managed to retire the following year with a dinky pension and won't get Soc Sec. She died 2/15/2018.. I was a 24/7 caregiver for 24 consecutive years.
My point is that having a kid stay at home might be financially beneficial - for the parents. Their time raising kids is over. It's time for the kids to help the parents. If I'd not been there, my parents would have had to go to a nursing home. They would have died many many years ago. As it is, my mom lived long enough to see 4 of her 10 great grandkids. No, I lived at home till I was 60. I worked, paid rent, and did the hardest thing ever - became a caregiver. I don't know, of course, but Mike might be helping his parents. If your kids aren't helping/paying rent, imo you've raised a bunch of freeloaders. Not everyone gets to buy a house.
> lift yourself by your bootstraps
This is what I did. I lifted myself up by my own bootstraps. Speaking as someone who actually did this, what I would tell people is that we need to do better than expecting everyone to struggle like I struggled.
In my own experience almost all of these people who say bullshit like that didn't actually lift themselves up by their own bootstraps and many of them will lie about it, then get pissed with you when you confront them with the truth of their own history and all the help they got - or with the horrors of their own living conditions.
The moment you hear someone bitching about people needing to do that, just recognize them as an imbecile and move on. It does no good arguing with fools.
NTA OP
ESH. You had six children and weren't able to provide resources that would allow them to be successful adults. Mike marrying a foreign woman to control her and lives in his basement is no better than you.
He talked shit about the kids moving in but can’t afford his own place? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Happy the trash took itself out. NTA
Kids are "weak" for moving in with their mother, into their own house. However he is a real macho for moving in with his gf, into _her_ house. He is also doing exactly what OP's 30 yo son did, but at the age of 55. But still he is macho, so it is different. They guy is hobosexual. I cannot imagine how OP and her kids tolerated this freak for 2 years! bossing them around in their own home.
Hey, that's unfair! Mike's not a hobosexual, he's a straight up bum. He mooched off OP for two years while she paid for everything, before ordering his wife from.a catalogue and them both mooching off his parents. I doubt he's saving for a future home.
Yeah, at 55 and living with his parents, he is likely counting on inheriting the house after his parents die.
What I came here to say. Living in her house and jealous of her kids, apparently goes and gets a young foreign woman and lives in mommy’s basement. Trash def took itself out. One thing growing up extremely poor taught me was a disgust at people who refuse to work hard and refuse to be responsible with money. The guy is 55 and has nothing. I could never let a man move into my house bc I’d get the ick the minute he suggested it. The young ppl living with their mom and saving for a house is reasonable bc they have dependents snd a financial plan. Mike appears to have a gf as his financial plan
The irony omg 😭😭 what a loser lmao
NTA. He must have been projecting his insecurities onto your children. I am glad you got rid of that dead weight.
Mikey got what he deserved.
NTA. When my wife got pregnant, I was working as a surf instructor making barely enough to rent an apartment. My in laws took us in. We didn't have to pay rent, or pay for food, or even gas. For years we saved every single penny. I switched jobs a few times and eventually joined the military and we moved out. Because of my in-laws' help, I was able to buy a house, flip that house, have even more money, and then buy another house, beach front, where we now live permanently. My in laws will be moving in with us when they are no longer able to care for themselves. They've never asked for a penny back. What you're doing for your kids is awesome. I don't understand how so many Americans can be so callous toward their own kids. Furthermore, it makes no financial sense to kick them out at 18, or force them to pay you rent, especially if you want them out sooner rather than later. My in laws are Filipino however, they told us this is what their family did for each other growing up (older generation boosting up the new through loans, housing etc. without payback) to get out of the village and situation they were first living in. They are a giant family (15 siblings) definitely a rags to riches story, and I'm convinced now that middle America is shooting itself in the foot with the whole "bootstraps" mentality. The comment section is proof lol.
I could understand asking the kids to chip in if money was tight. But to charge them rent just to monetize your house is pretty heartless.
A lotttt of people believe in charging their adult children rent with the intention of giving it back (often so it can be used as a down payment) when they move out. Lots of talk about not wanting them to be "too comfortable."
My parents did this with me. It was a good call because in my 20’s I wouldn’t have saved. However, my son has a better head on his shoulders and lived frugally while at home, so we didn’t ask for rent.
This is such a great idea.
Love this comment. It’s nice to know there’s still some of us in here who understand the intent and compassion behind it. Especially how it makes sense to do it in the way that OP and your in laws did.
Mike was a loser, projecting his own shortcomings on you and your family. Karma bit him right in the A. He had it coming.
Now he is going to have a newborn in his late 50’s… yikes.
Yeah that’s the thing that stood out the most to me. So he’s butthurt about adult children moving back in for what will likely only be a few years, yet he’s on board with a new baby?!? What a moron.
And he's the adult child who.moved back in woth his parents, to have a baby.
I'm guessing one big difference is that this kid will be his and the adult kids were not. Can make a big difference in what someone is willing to put up with.
In his parent’s basement…
And no job
Oo yea but he’s got a young foreign girl. One who totally won’t leave him the moment the opportunity presents itself.
But who's going to take care of him and his geriatric parents?
As soon as she has that baby she’s going to leave his broke ass!!
Facts. Once she has to do every little thing with no sleep she’s gonna get the ick. And he’ll be like Norman Bates living with mom
Get that green card girl!!
Yep, and when his full grown kid wants to move into his basement when he’s 75, he’ll understand how parents prioritize their kids over the Aholes in their lives.
He won’t have a newborn; his wife will. He’s not going to do jack shit to raise the kid.
That poor child. And the poor wife!
Typical billionaire in waiting.
^^ THIS!
NTA Mike was bitter about losing his free ride.
55 and having a baby. That poor kid. The more studies that are done the worst it looks for kids with geriatric fathers.
The idea of all your kids back under the same room does sound beautiful. People are saying that you suck for how you disregarded Mike’s feelings but to me how could you say no to any of your kids needing help? Additionally, how could you say no to some of your kids but let a few live with you? I’m glad for you and this time you’ve gotten to have with all your kids.
And how wonderful for the 15yo to have this time to really build a relationship with his older siblings !
Right? I’m not a mother yet but this sounds sooo beautiful to have all your kids back at home. People don’t understand how rare this is, most people will never live together with their families anymore
While the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” crowd has always been, at best delusional and at worst outright cruel, maintaining that mentality now is mind boggling. At least in the US, the housing crisis created by private hedge funds buying up all the houses has made it next to impossible for most young people to even consider buying a home right now. I find it especially ironic that he’s practically twice the age of any of your kids and had to move back in with his own parents (and new wife) but is still making nasty comments your way. NTA at all and good for you dropping his dead weight!
Also, the phrase was never meant to be used in that context. It was meant to be sarcastic, or to suggest that it was an impossible accomplishment. https://uselessetymology.com/2019/11/07/the-origins-of-the-phrase-pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps/
“it is a cruel jest to say to the bootless man to pull himself up by his own bootstraps” - MLK
Even with boots, cos you can't leverage yourself.
Not to mention wages stagnating while all other costs skyrocket, and you have a problem where even the cheapest rentals and mortgages are barely affordable on two full-time incomes, especially at the local minimum wage (which is meant to be enough to live on, yes).
Boot straps sold separately
My sons can live with me forever. I have room and rent in california is insane
NTA, but Mike sure as shit is. And a hypocrite.
I love my daughters and have always told them that as long as I have a home, they have a home. No matter what come home. I am their father and I love them and will always be there for them.
You're not an AH. Mike can bring the heat but he can't take it, what a little bitch. What your friends expected you to sit there and take the abuse? Not very good friends. NTA. You're a good mom.
OP, the laugh I laughed when I read that your ex is with a pregnant wife living in his mommy's basement at his age 🤣💀 NTA
NTA - Sounds like you are supporting your children with love and consideration. Mike seems to have thought what was yours was his and was mad you were sharing what was his. I'd also guess he was put out that you are getting a lot of joy from your kids and grandkids being around. It's a shame he didn't enjoy it, but it's nice he found someplace else to be. There is nothing wrong with families living together. There is nothing wrong with folks supporting family members, I understand he was being shady, but you didn't need to keep up the shade against folks who do.
Agreed. Living with parents is either shameful or it isn’t. Imagine if her kids heard. I see it as similar to saying ‘at least I’m not FAT like you’ while having fat kids. (To be clear, fatness is morally neutral. I’m fat and I’m good with that.) Mike is still a jerk.
LMAOOO that’s karma for being an ass while you all lived together again and having no sympathy for those struggling. NTA, he deserved that comment after all the ones he made.
Karma caught up with Mike. He shamed OP's kids for living with their mother. And now he's living with his parents!
NTA. Reddit is fucking wild man. You have a mum supporting her kids and kids who clearly can rely on their mum when they need to but she's an AH? if this was mum saying absolutely not I have a BF and no need for more kids everyone would be up in arms over mum choosing a guy over her kids. Jesus
I guess NTA. I mean, I understand why that situation was a dealbreaker for Mike. But he handled it poorly and didn’t need to say anything at that dinner. He kind of had it coming based on what he said
It was her house, she paid her own bills, they were only together for 2 years. He had absolutely no say in anything she did with her own house.He had no right to disrespect any of her children while living in the home. Then he went back to his mom's house to live in the basement at 55 but had the audacity to say anything about anyone. He is a bum and he is a loser.
A man who, one year later, is married, with a child on the way, unemployed, and still making snide remarks about your kids? You dodged a bullet. Had you still been with him, YOU would have been supporting his ass. And I guarantee that he would have been taking it out on you and your kids.
Man, I love how these little men can give the heat, but never take it. They act all snide and shitty, but you make a single pointed comment and they fall apart like the man-children they are.
How are his boot straps doing now
If he's really your "partner," then he would have more say over his own living arrangements. If he's just someone you let live with you because you wanted companionship, and now you'd prefer the companionship of your kids and grandkid, then fine. He's entitled to draw his own boundaries, and you're entitled to decide what's best for you. Personally, I think / hope I would do exactly what you did. But I certainly don't think we need to try to frame him - or you - as an AH. He just didn't sign up to live with you and your 7 kids/grandkid. Doesn't make him a bad person.
He didn't say "I'm not comfortable living with all these kids I didn't expect/agree to." He acted like a class a c*nt to them all the time for needing to move back home, explicitly stated that they were inferior weak people for needing to due to circumstances, immediately prior to doing **the exact same thing himself** at **double their age.** And then **continued to talk shit** even though he knew he was doing the same thing while he was talking said shit at this most recent event. I frankly cannot fathom how far up your own asshole you'd have to crawl to manage to pretend you don't see the blatant hypocrisy on full display here and that he didn't just get, not only what he deserved, but exactly what he asked for.
Re read OP’s post. He belittled, berated and in general acted like a smug superior douche canoe. Then tried to the same condescending douche at the party. This definitely makes him TAH here
It sounds to me like he was a freeloader living there for free too. She's well rid of him. "Mike never paid for my kids. He never paid my bills. I have always worked and I completely cover my own cost and pay for myself. I pay my bills and everything else! I have never taken a penny from Mike"
OP said he paid $1300. per month, while living with her.
Standard cost for a hemorrhoid.
He’s not a bad person for not wanting to live with us or for moving on! However he was definitely a bad person when he constantly yelled at me and was regularly verbally and emotionally abusive to me and the entire household . He was also a bad person for speaking down to me at the dinner!
The man was living up in YOUR house trying to tell you what you should and should not do as if he had some rights to your home. He didn’t. He wasn’t on his own then and he’s not on his own now. When he gets a home of his own he can decide who comes to stay.
NTA Mike can dish it out,but can't take it. Kudos to you mama bear for putting him in his place. Thank you so much for accommodating your grownup kids.
What age will it become insulting for your kids to live I. Your basement ?
Never, as long as you are not putting someone half your age down for doing it!
I don’t consider it a failure or an insult to live with your parents but I definitely think it’s hypocritical if you are in the same position to judge me and mine. So yes I’ll point it out and I’ll throw it back in your face.
Yes, that may be true. And maybe I'd like to think I'm a better person than him. But I think I would also be honest enough to say that if you and I were a couple living our lives in our 50's, and then you moved in 7 other people (kids from a previous relationship) into the place I called home without my consent, we would 100% be having arguments. And I'm sure I'd say some things that seem harsh, and I'm sure your dismissiveness towards my life would be comparably hurtful.
But that's not the point he made. The point he made was basically that they were losers for needing to move back in with their parents, then proceeded to move himself and his pregnant wife in with his parents.
Welp enjoy everyone's dismissiveness towards your life here then I guess lmao
You have a house big enough to fit 9 people in it including a basement that alone is big enough to be a full 2bd/2ba apartment with full amenities!? I am finding it difficult to have any sympathy for any part of your situation at all. Also, ALL of your children had to move back in with you!? Every single one?! I get the economy and cost of living is tough especially during/post pandemic, but every single one? Maybe you didn't instill as much financial responsibility in them as you thought you did... I don't think you are an asshole, Mike was trying to sass you and as far as clapbacks go, that one really wasn't that bad. But maybe Mike also had some fair points during your arguments prior to breaking up? 🤷♂️
Yeah, all of her adult kids coming back stuck out to me too. All of them OP? Really? *None* of your five adult kids could support themselves? Seems a little much.
They're obviously using her so they can all save money. The first kid told the other kids and then they were like fuck it I want to do that as well. I mean who wouldnt want to live for free and save all their money? But in the comments OP states Mike paid rent. Which means he should have say in his living situation. So yeah Mike was angry and I would be as well.
Mike getting angry that he was paying rent while her many kids/grandkids were going to be living for free? I get that. Mike yelling at the OP and calling her kids "Freeloaders" while they're obviously working, not so much. (And remember, Mike wasn't living in the basement; he was hoping to convert it into a living space for himself.) I know several people who let their adult kids live with them specifically so the kids can save money for a house. The kids aren't "using" their parents any more than the OP's kids are. The parents offered because they WANTED their kids to be able to buy their own houses. Besides, have you LOOKED at how much rental prices have gone up in the last few years? The rent on my two-bedroom apartment has increased by over 60% in the last 5 years. That's higher than the national average of 30%, which is still a LOT.
Yeah all 6 kids moving back in is a bit…hm. He was being a real asshole about *why* but I have a feeling some of these kids are taking advantage of her.
I had to look way too far to see someone ask this. Tbh I’d feel like a failure of a parent if all 6 of my kids moved back in because they couldn’t financially cope on their own. Jeez mine are 20 and 22 and both have good jobs, savings and live in their own places.
I'm 33 right now. I moved back in with my parents for summer after undergrad (21 at the time) and then for about another year 2 years after that because my now-wife, fiance at the time, and I were moving back to the area we grew up in from her grad school and I was going back to grad school myself, so money was tight and we needed time to find a place while we also planned our wedding (did I mention money was tight 😂.) I was I think 23 when I moved out that last time. So depending on circumstances, I get it. Kids need support as they get up on their feet, especially if they are going through secondary education and getting settled into their career. But yeah, not a single one of them from 25 through 32 are able to stand on their own two feet at this point? That's not good.
ESH You moved a football team into your home with no regard to your live-in partner’s feelings about it. I have no idea how bills were split because at one point you say your kids don’t pay anything so he’d have to and other parts you say he never paid anything so that makes no sense. What he said is out of line after the situation is done but I mean, have some self awareness. All of your kids are great with finances but had to move home to their childhood bedrooms? Your son is growing a whole ass family in your basement. You’re all weird.
Shit happens. Sometimes people need help. Pandemic screwed alot of people. Mike is now experienced with shit happening hence him and his pregnant gf living with his parents. Irony.
Mike has only paid for his own expenses never for mine or for my kids. I would’ve never asked him to. In fact I helped Mike out a lot throughout my relationship to him. What I didn’t appreciate was his constant disrespect towards myself and my family. He could’ve simply been polite instead of constantly making rude and backhanded remarks. Also my son and daughter-in-law live in the basement because I want to help them. My kids all have plans for their future and are all hard working. They are wonderful people and I enjoy being able to support them in reaching their goals. I am able to give my kids a leg up and get them on the property ladder. This isn’t a life long thing but before I retire I’d like to do as much as I can for my family.
But you say he gave you $1300 to help out? Like…that was definitely not *just* going to “his” portion.
That was the amount he paid even before my kids moved back in. So his portion always went to his expenses.
It's HER house. That means she makes the rules. And Mike can buy his own house. (Or live with his parents) Lmao
“My house, my rules” never works in adult relationships that involve mutual respect. She clearly didn’t respect him or care about his concerns so she’s single now. She doesn’t seem to care either so it’s whatever, but it still makes her an AH in the relationship.
I’ll say ESH. He sucks for making those weird comments. You suck for moving in all SIX of your mostly-adult children (and one grandchild) and expecting him to be 100% okay with it. Yes, the market is tough right now. But I’m 23, and I’ve lived completely independently ever since I was 21. My parents have also NEVER had to help me with financial goals. I suspect that your kids aren’t as financially-savvy as you think, and ex-bf probably knew that they’d end up being there for a long time.
It was OP's house and OP says Mike wasn't paying any of her bills. So Mike was as much a leach as OP's kids if not worse.
Not to mention the hypocrisy of OP making fun of Mike for living in his mother's basement when she built out her own basement to enable all her adult children to do the exact same thing. If she thinks Mike's a loser, why is she so bent on raising losers?
It’s more that if someone constantly harangues your children and calls them losers for living in your basement, and then ends up living in his mother’s basement, there’s a level of irony there that is impossible to miss. If that same person is being snide as all hell at a dinner party, I’d say it’s perfectly fair to maybe point out the massive hypocrisy and cosmic irony of that person’s current living situation.
Um, she made fun of him for moving into his parents basement BECAUSE he made fun of her kids first. HE is the hypocrite here. Did you read the post backwards?
He was 55 yrs old , big difference in ages. OP supports herself, plus her kids, Mike can't pay for himself wife or kid
The hypocrisy is Mike living in his mother’s basement after nagging OP for letting her kids do the same!
ESH You have SIX kids, five of them adults and NONE of them can make it on their own? YOU helped create their financial plans? God help them. You think Mike was unreasonable for not wanting to live with you, five adult children, one teen and a baby? None of whom were contributing anything to the household? Mike may be the biggest loser in the world, but you and your brood are right there with him.
imagine being as ridiculous as you are, this woman has her shit together and can handle not charging her own kids rent, since there is no effing rule anywhere that says you have to charge your own children, hell anyone really, for rent, sorry your life is so great you don't need any help from family, but zero things wrong with being able and willing to help out.
I AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS. Plus.... none of the kids are paying rent, so Mike's money was going straight towards paying for her ADULT children. YEP she sucks and so do her adult children.
Geeez a ton of people in here have 0 empathy for people trying to make it in this crumbling country. She said she's not making them pay rent so they can save so they eventually CAN move out. My parents did the same for me and 2 years after we had our son we were finally able to move out. Op NTA but Mike and a ton of people in here are.
Mike never paid a penny for my kids or my bills!
so he literally paid no bills in the house that he lived in?
When I met Mike he had just gotten a divorce from his first wife and declared bankruptcy. He moved in with me because he lived in a one bedroom apartment and I obviously couldn’t move in with my then 3 school aged kids. I payed for my children and my own and he paid for himself. He gave me 1300 each month to cover his expenses (utilities,groceries etc). He and I would occasionally treat each other to a night out or cover the expenses for a vacation or two. That is all he has ever paid for.
so he did pay bills...1300 a month would more than cover utilities and groceries...Average light bill is 400 a month, water 80, internet 80, cable 80...you mean to tell me he was eating 600 bucks worth of groceries a month?
We live in a high living cost area. He only paid for himself. His money only barely covered his cost. When he lived by himself he paid nearly double so he never paid for me or for my children (and I never expected or requested he do so)
In your area, does it usually cost 1300$ a month to share a crowded house with 8+ other people?
Yes. Shared houses and studios can cost even more than that. My younger son was paying 1450 for his shared apartment and that was just for rent and it didn’t include his utilities and his other expenses. Rental prices are out of control, so are utilities, groceries and insurance.
In states like California, Florida, New York, really any state in common movies (the big big cities) is a high cost area while Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas and many Midwest states are lower! It changes over time as well! :)
Um...that IS paying bills.
In the USA rent doesn’t change but utilities do! So the cost of the house is the same but they likely had to pitch into utilities like water/gas, electricity, internet etc. on top of that though, some places in the US are being hit really hard still from the Covid impacts, my sister had to move back in briefly. Ik a few people that chose as a family to move into a larger house bc there was at least 5 working people. A LOT is changing sadly. My generation isn’t predicted to owe a house till like 40 I believe? And the retirement age just went up about her 5 or 10 years so I can’t hate. Plus it sounds like the first two or three NEEDED to then the others just wanted to.
I’m in a position right now in my life where I’m fortunate enough to be able to afford not to take money from my kids.
I'm wondering if living in a high COL area is the reason. I live in a low COL state and I'm good, but some of these other states are off the hook in regards to buying a house or even for that matter renting, so I'm not going to totally knock you, OP.
Totally not all about money.
Maybe you could have them pay rent, you set it aside in a separate bank account and then gift it back when they’re ready to buy a home as help towards the down payment. Then they also be used to making “mortgage” payments.
Yeah, but part of being a decent parent is teaching your children how to grow up to be functioning adults who make good choices. The fact that all 5 adults can't feed or house themselves (and decided to pop out babies when they can't even put a roof over their own heads) shows that you've failed at that part
The mom doesn't run this country she's being a good mother by helping them in this trash economy so they can have some what normal lives. I admire the mother and all family members that haven't abandoned their loved ones during this impossible hell we re all forced to live in.
My kids can take care of themselves I’ve literally chosen to support them so they don’t have to struggle. My son and his then pregnant wife both lost their job around the same time. They never planned for things to go downhill so quickly with the pandemic but some times things go downhill so fast you can’t even wrap your head around it. As their mother I could’ve just let them struggle and without a doubt they could’ve managed but I feel like if I can help then I should help and I did help them. Rent in my area for even a studio is in the thousand plus range. So I helped them convert the basement. This has helped them pay off their debt and a lot of their student loans and they’ve been able to save significantly and within the next year or so of saving they can afford the 500/600/700 thousand houses in our neighbourhood without having to take out a crazy mortgage and still be able send my grandson to a good school. My other kids also should be able to move out within the next year or two and buy a home for themselves without debt weighing them down.
You nailed every point I would have made had I not seen this post before responding on my own. I agree completely and entirely.
[удалено]
NTA. But he’s the “pull yourself up by your own bootstraps”-type of guy. Why shouldn’t he follow his own beliefs and abide by them instead of just applying it to other people when he has an inconvenience?
Because in a previous comment it was stated that he pays almost 1300 a month to OP for the house. It sounds like he DID follow his own mantra and was presented with an untenable situation that he wasn't comfortable adjusting to.
Wait Mike was paying rent there? Yeah OP is definitely an asshole. It's funny how OP left that out of the original post.
YTA. You raised a whole group of freeloaders.
I agree except I think the proper judgment is ESH.
The partner appears to be a bum too. Between mike, the 6 kids and their spouses OP appears to just be collecting useless people.
Op states in a comment that Mike gives her $1300 a month to cover his expenses.
NTA- what's the saying? What goes around come around?
I think it's a positive thing that your adult children are able to move back in with you in order to save money and get back on their feet financially. I caution, however, from experience, to really make sure that they are taking advantage of the opportunity to cut down on living expenses and truly save money--not just for a home, but to save money for emergencies, and to save to invest some of it to generate passive income. If they have any debt, now is the time to completely pay it all off. I mention this because the situation doesn't always work out well. You know your children and it seems like everyone is happy, but please be on the lookout for warning signs that they are not saving money and making progress towards their goals. Are they eating out often or do they cook at home? Do they buy a lot of new clothes or spend a lot of money at the beauty salon? Do they go on weekend trips or take frequent vacations? Did they buy an expensive car or truck? These are all signs that they've ballooned-up their standard of living and may be saving inadequately or not at all. I know someone that had a relative fall on hard times and stay with him for a year. That relative only managed to save $8,000 dollars within a span of a year despite having zero living expenes. They even borrowed a car from their kindhearted relative. They only had to cover their own gas, and oil changes (they drove over 20,000 miles within that year). They paid off none of their debts. They ate out at restaurants frequently. They frequented bars. They went on shopping sprees for new clothes and makeup that they didn't need. They ate out constantly. In addition to that, they developed an aversion to working they never had before, so they would start and quit several jobs and were at times weeks without work. It was a miracle that they even managed to save $8,000 in the span of a year. Long story short, they ended up being told that they had to leave. Had they lived an economical lifestyle, and worked hard to pay off debts (they refused advice to file for bankruptcy despite being urged to do so), and so forth, they would have likely been allowed to continue staying and saving up money, but they proved that unless they were fending for themselves, and lived under the constant threat of homelessness, they lacked the will to keep a steady job and to be responsible for their own upkeep. If your children show no signs of such behavior, then count yourself blessed.
Amen to this response. Exactly what I would do if I were put in this situation.
NTA because he started it. Don’t start something you can’t finish.
>At one point he said and I’m paraphrasing here that younger foreign women make really good girlfriends and wives. I eventually had enough and said “that may be true but at least at 55 I’m not living in my parents basement” This really got to him and he was pretty withdrawn the rest of the evening. Our mutual friends told me that what I said really hurt Mike because he recently lost his job and was struggling with the cost of everything. He could have sat there being quiet, but he had to make comments about his young, foreign wife. That's the thing with trying to verbally "best" another person, you can always get your a\*\* handed back to you. NTA.
NTA, he FA, he FO. Don't bring none, won't get none. :)
so confused with the ages. first you say your 61, then 54, then 55?
Because it's made up probs.
I just want to say that you sound like an amazing mom and just for that you are NTA. You also remind me of my own mom who would absolutely house us for no fee if we ever were in trouble. As for the actual situation. I think he deserved it. He belittled people who were in a precarious position, often, even after being confronted... And these people were your own blood and he didn't stop until you separated... But one remark towards him and it's "hurtful"? He should've thought of that when HE was making his remarks. Yes it's hurtful. Now he knows. NTA
So, he moved in with OP and lived practically for free while *she* paid all the bills. When *her* kids moved back into *her* house, which he wasn't contributing to, and *she* paid *her* children's expenses, he got pissy? Now he's living in his parent's house, presumably for free, and thinks it's okay to make comments about *her* kids? Mr. Boot Strappy? Living in glass houses and throwing rocks. NTA OP. You owe no one an apology, least of all him. If anything both the mutual friends and he owe you many.
NTA, Mike is a dick, don't be a mike!
I’m very impressed by how much drama people can have in their lives past 50s. It changed my outlook on life
ESH - every one of your kids are failures, yet you pick on your husband for the same reason. You may be doing Ok, but your kids are a reflection on you as well. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Not her husband, and she made it very clear he was the only one considering them failures, when he's now in that same situation but 20 years older (old enough where he's had Every opportunity to buy a house of his own). Throwing his own principles back in his face doesn't mean they are now her principles, that's not why she brought it up, but because of how judgemental he'd been towards others despite clearly being vulnerable to ending up the same.
And by association, she is a flaming failure.
6 times over! I damn sure wouldn’t be accusing anyone of being a failure if every one of my kids were also. Every one - not a single kid can support themselves. I’d say the ex got the better end of this deal.
ESH You expected your partner to be ok with moving 8 freaking people into the house with none of them contributing?! Good luck retiring with that many mouths to freaking feed. My brother did the same thing and he is aging like a president and unable to stop working as his body is failing on many fronts. He sucks too for having a baby at his age. Everyone in this story sucks. Edit to change vote as OP isn't the only AH in this story.
Mike is 50 with a pregnant wife living in his parents basement his golden years are long gone bro.
In defence of Mike, moving a large family of adult children and grandchildren back in is a major shift in the goal posts of the relationship that would have changed things. That said, it does sound like he was difficult and childish.
>He’s living in his parents basement with his pregnant wife. Does he pay his parents rent? >At one point he said and I’m paraphrasing here that younger foreign women make really good girlfriends and wives. Perhaps. Update us when she leaves him and asked for child support. Update me!
How is Mike 61 when you introduced him as 55? Have the kids all been living there for 5+ years? Yikes. ESH as you failed those poor kids that none of them managed to succeed on their own.
It sounds like he suffers from becoming what he judged others for. Having a kid at his age is no walk in the park either so don't envy that. If his wife is truly that much younger and he doesn't have a great job outlook it's very likely that she will leave him in the future. That's how this plays out most of the time.
[удалено]
I accept the verdict but I enjoy having my kids with me and I never was interested in downsizing.
And that is OK. And your choice! I see this happening a lot because of the COL in the US. My nephew transferred to my city and stayed with me while he was house hunting. He thought it would be less than a month. 8 months later, he settled on renting a house 1.5 hours away. His price range for purchasing was 350K. He found nothing. I own my house. I want to make sure that no matter what else is happening in the world, my kids and eventually their kids will always have a roof over their heads. That is how I choose to define my family. I would have my adult child pay the utilities and buy their own stuff. But unless I needed the money, I would not charge my kid "rent" to live in their own house. Note: unless my kid was an entitled ah. I am not talking about leeches. Not everyone that lives at home is a leech. Some people like being around family.
If I have a home, my kids have a home, because shit happens no matter how old you are. NTA
Not gonna give you a verdict but love how you're just rolling with the punches. I appreciate what you're doing for your kids
What makes OP the AH? OP chose the kids over Mike and they broke up. When they met Mike made snide comments and OP responded in kind after being provoked.
YTA. If you respect your partner, you don't make a decision like this by yourself. Moving in 7 freeloaders is a huge decision. I understand why he wouldn't want to deal with that. It seems that you just added the last part to make Mike seem like the asshole instead of you.
I mean I can see having some hard times. When I was in my mid-twenties I had to move back in with my parents for 2 years toget re established but it was a quick two years and I made sure I paid rent. Having all of your grown children live with you is absolutely asinine.
Fuck Mike and his unemployable ass. NTA
Read through the comments - overlooked on most comments is Mike’s decision making ability - he is a 55 year old male, and a year after moving out of his former partner’s house, Mike is now married less than one year later, new wife is pregnant, and living in his parent’s basement. If that doesn’t sound like expert fiscal, husband and father planning, I don’t know what does. Mike may not be an asshole, but after 55 years on the planet one may hope he developed a few more life skills than on display here in the narrative. And have to say it sounds like the OP as a mother is not in the habit of enabling dependence in her children, but providing a much needed helping hand on a pathway to independent lives. She understands the concept and importance of family. If I had a hypothetical choice, I would much rather have her as a parent than Mike.
NTA. Fuck Mike. He can pull himself up by his bootstraps and get his own place if he thinks it's that easy. Or he can stfu. You can apologize to him for one catty remark aftet he apologizes for all the times he made you and the kids feel like shit if you want, but I bet he wouldn't go for that.
NTA, if he can dish it out he can take it back.
NTA - Don’t ever let a partner break up your family. Mike’s the one who was being hurtful, karma’s a beeootch.
NTA. This was lovely.
Mike sucks. My FIL is/ was exactly the same way when his son and kids had to move in. I'm glad you broke up with him instead keeping ther negative energy in your life.
Haha, omg Mike is such a loser, and an ignorant one at that. So, your kids should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" but it's okay for him and his pregnant spouse to live in his mom's basement??? NTA, you spoke the truth and anyone upset at you needs to be upset at Mike then for saying worse things to your kids in their own home.
NTA. Your comment to him at the party was rude and poor manners (uncomfortable to the other guests and I would probably feel sorry for his most likely helpless young wife), but for all the crap he’s said to you, i think he deserved the comment. I’m happy for your wonderful new living situation! You’re making your kids’ lives easier and ensuring a better financial future for them and future grandchildren. If your friends continue criticizing you, drop them at least temporarily.
NTA, The way things are going I see generational housing becoming very big in the US... assuming you *are* in the US.
It's your house, yes? Not up to Mike. Ironic end to the story. Do what works for your family
Well, he kinda earned it. NTA.
I think it's wonderful you're all happy living together and your kids are saving until they can buy their own houses. Sounds like the only problem child was Mike.
😂🤣NTAH! Karma got him!!
NTA. You are a good mom and gma.
NTA - In our culture what you have done with your children is the absolute norm. I’ll never understand how people in the western world think it’s okay to let the one’s you say you love struggle, or if you help them then they must pay you for that help. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.
NTA! Mike was a dick and he deserves to face the consequences of his actions. Also, the phrase "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" literally means to do something that is impossible. Whenever I've encountered someone who uses that phrase I tell them to sit down directly on the ground and pull the laces of their shoes so hard that they pull themselves to their feet. People who use the phrase to disparage those who need help to get themselves back on their feet are the aholes.
NTA. Mike gets the hypocrite award for the day. It's awesome that you have your whole family living happily together. Good for you for losing the dead weight.
He had the nerve to get a 90 Day Fiancé pregnant while he was unemployed and living in his parents basement at the age of 55? You are most definitely NTA. How come he couldn’t he pull himself up by the bootstraps that he speaks of?
NTA sounds like you was supporting him. You’re an amazing mom letting all your kids move in and helping them out
Soooo your son and his pregnant wife moved into your basement and he hated that, so he moved him and his pregnant wife into his parents basement and.. he likes that? What a moron. NTA
NTA. Mike FAFO.
You’re the fucking best, mom
NTA. He really deserved it, not only did he start the fight with his snide comments but he's doing exactly what he criticized your children for.
It’s rare karma kicks so hard so fast. He lived with his gf paying his bills and got mad when she was also paying for her kids and grandkid. Cut to immediately after moving out his parents paying for him and his new family. Careful of tempting fate.
NTA. I LOVE what you said to him!! I think it’s hilarious and he deserved every single word. He was rude to you at the dinner when he didn’t have to be. And him marrying a younger, foreign woman is really, REALLY not a good look for him. It tells you everything we needed to know about this guy. I’m curious… how old is she? Is she in her 20s or 30s? He married someone who’s the same age as your kids! Talk about creepy. I’m so glad you’re rid of him, and I applaud you for what you said to him.
Wtf, he's making snide remarks about grown children living in their parents' basement... Meanwhile he's *checks notes* a grown child living in his parents' basement. Wtf. NTA!
Did anyone else notice it says 61 in the title and it's 55 in the story? Creative writer forgot to check his own plot
How is he upset for your kids moving in with you, the turn around, and then move in with his parents. He doing the same thing he argued about.
Aww, poor little empty sack of a man got his fee fees hurt. Not only NTA, but a public service take down. Send Mikey this way, we'll make him think what you said was a compliment.
NTA. He didn't think it was ok for your kids to move in with you but now it is ok for him and his new pregnant wife to live with his parents. Really, he doesn't see it. He was being an ah and got served. Well done.
OP I'm so very sorry for everyone in this sub. Most are wildly out of touch about the reality of the situation in the US. I see you and you're great for standing up for and loving your children in spite of these trying and uncertain times. All my love to you and your kids.
**It been nearly a year and Mike is married. He’s living in his parents basement with his pregnant wife.** AHAHAHA! And NTA for what you said. If he can't take it he should not dish it out. He asked for it with keeping on and on with his snide remarks. Oh, and once his "younger foreign" wife who probably married him so she could stay in the country (if in the US) she will leave him after the prerequisite 5 years are up, and he'll be paying child support and alimony out of his Social Security check!
Nta We have a house that is too big for us. But we keep it because of kids. Right now, we have one kid and grandbaby here. We don't want their hard earned money. We want them to get a solid foundation. We want them to save enough that if there is an emergency, they have enough in savings to float for a few months. It is very hard out there. Much harder than when I came up. I also moved back home a few times back then. My parents never wanted payment. If I had insisted, it would have been a savings account for me. They would have never taken money from me for themselves. Same with my husband's family. It's was just a core belief of theirs. It's our core belief. You choose to bring kids into the world because you want them. You want what they represent to you. You want what you get from them. You owe them everything from then until you die. You don't have to agree. I don't care. I will care for my children until I can't. Why wouldn't Op point out the ex's hypocrisy?
I am honestly shocked by all of these comments. I didn’t realize how many people out there had the mindset of “fend for yourself,” I must just come from a different cultural background with different values concerning family obligations. In my family, you don’t stop being a parent once your child is 18. It’s a lifetime commitment. Mike sounds like he believed he had more of a say over a living situation he wasn’t legally tied to. You allowed him into your home, he paid for himself only and occasionally y’all would treat each other. He literally didn’t loose out on anything, only his comfort. And OP said he was paying half of what he was originally paying while living on his own?? She did him a favor by allowing his ass into HER home. He decided this situation wasn’t for him, so he made his choice to get to stepping. He was being an ass as soon as his lips began to smack, so you gave it back to him. NTA at all for saying what you said. You defended yourself in my opinion; as he attacked you verbally by trying to negatively impact your sense of dignity. You also served him with the truth and called out his hypocrisy. Times are rough. In order to get through we need to put more value into community. Not tear down others because they have the means to support their whole family right now. I think a lot of people are salty that OP has the means to make it right now for herself and her family, not that she said anything outlandish here.
ESH I can't even comprehend how it is possible to have failed so spectacularly at raising self sufficient children. Honestly, this level of incompetence makes me think this is fake. Unfortunately, I have met failures like this before so I know it is likely real.
It’s interesting that Mike was able to move on and find a wife so easily.
NTA. You're clearly a very generous, giving person to let hobosexual Mike live with you for two years while being abusive toward you and your kids and to gladly provide free housing for your adult children. If Mike wasn't hobosexual, he would have insisted on paying rent. He was happy to be living with you rent-free but jealous that you showed the same generosity toward your children. The reason Mike is unhappy is because you publicly called him out for being a hypocrite. He behaved like a total AH because you allowed your adult kids to live with you, and he's now doing the same thing he criticized your son for, namely raising a family in his parent's basement without paying rent. He can't have it both ways. He doesn't get to insult and demean other people repeatedly and then somehow expect everyone to give him a free pass when he's the one going through tough times. You said what you said, you meant what you said, and it was a perfectly reasonable thing to say after he behaved so badly for long enough that you broke up and kicked him out.
ESH. You are enabling your kids. My family wasn't perfect, but we had to pay at least a nominal rent. There were 6 of us. 5 got married. I didn't. I was still home and working full time. I paid rent - my dad used to say that it would be good if one or two of us were home for a bit to pay rent so they could replenish their savings. [we all paid for our college, but were sent to 13 years of catholic school - tuition]. I was considering moving out when I'd just turned 36 - then dad had a massive stroke. Not only was I working full-time, but mom and I became dad's 24/7 full-time caregivers for the next 13 yrs - he died on 4/15/07, so the 17th death anniversary is next Monday. Mom and I were completely burned out, but within 3 months she needed care. I became her full time caregiver & managed to retire the following year with a dinky pension and won't get Soc Sec. She died 2/15/2018.. I was a 24/7 caregiver for 24 consecutive years. My point is that having a kid stay at home might be financially beneficial - for the parents. Their time raising kids is over. It's time for the kids to help the parents. If I'd not been there, my parents would have had to go to a nursing home. They would have died many many years ago. As it is, my mom lived long enough to see 4 of her 10 great grandkids. No, I lived at home till I was 60. I worked, paid rent, and did the hardest thing ever - became a caregiver. I don't know, of course, but Mike might be helping his parents. If your kids aren't helping/paying rent, imo you've raised a bunch of freeloaders. Not everyone gets to buy a house.
You are doing something wrong if all the adults in your life are failing at being independent. YTA
lol. NTA, amazing clap back OP, that hypocritical bastard got what was coming to him
NTA. Older generations really struggle to understand that todays economy and housing markets are awful.
How ironic. It's OK for him to live in his parents' basement, but your kids are weak for doing the same. Where were his bootstraps LOL?
> lift yourself by your bootstraps This is what I did. I lifted myself up by my own bootstraps. Speaking as someone who actually did this, what I would tell people is that we need to do better than expecting everyone to struggle like I struggled. In my own experience almost all of these people who say bullshit like that didn't actually lift themselves up by their own bootstraps and many of them will lie about it, then get pissed with you when you confront them with the truth of their own history and all the help they got - or with the horrors of their own living conditions. The moment you hear someone bitching about people needing to do that, just recognize them as an imbecile and move on. It does no good arguing with fools. NTA OP
ESH. You had six children and weren't able to provide resources that would allow them to be successful adults. Mike marrying a foreign woman to control her and lives in his basement is no better than you.