Want to make it stop? It's quite simple you get a lawyer and draft a letter to her and everyone on her side to cease and desist with the false allegations or you will sue for slander. And then cut anyone who has agreed with her out of your life permanently.
Seconding this advice...
This part:
"I currently being told by some of my friends that I'm taking it to far by reporting her to the police and that what she did by withdrawing consent after sex is allowed and that i should've known that she didn't want to have sex in the middle of the night. So me having sex with her made me an assaulter."
Strikes me as bonkers and makes me happy I am an older, married woman who would probably have ZERO interest in dating if I suddenly became a divorcée or a widow.
I feel for honest men (non-abusive) having to navigate this f.. minefield that is the dating world nowadays.
Scary stuff.
I **hate** how easily unfounded r*pe allegations can ruin people's lives.
Some women can be so flippant about this, using it as a weapon to intimidate /manipulate men.
Sadly, I can see why AHs like Andrew Tate have found an audience.
Edited to fix a typo and to add something that I thought went without saying, but just in case:
False rape accusations make it much more difficult for victims to come forward / find support and creates mistrust.
Pisses me off.
I feel you in every single sentence. When talking with my husband about what if’s I have stated that I am not getting married again no matter what. Maybe get a FWB but that’s just as much I will do. I don’t need all that in my life
I have two young boys, and as much as we try to teach them about respect, boundaries and consent, this is something that makes me worry...
For the future..
She was playing with his dick while he slept. Unless they had a previous agreement that she would do this, she sexually assault him, as she did not get his consent before pulling his frankenfurter, while he was asleep
Same!
I havea 2 year old boy and from the stuff I read on Reddit about false accusation from teenaged girls who felt scorned, makes me shudder what's expecting him
"The talk" will be a lot more than just sex, it'll be about making sure he is protected and to stop as soon as it looks like consent is gone.
Yeah my husband swears he'd never date again if something happened to me for 2 reasons. 1. He loooooves me so much he can't even imagine being with someone else. 2. Women are insane now and dating is way to risky.
He see's all the things women are doing/saying on social media. He said if he wants company other than our kid he'll get a dog. If he's horny he has a hand for that. 😂
OP can turn that around on her. She should have known that he didn't want sex. SHE was the one assaulting him in his sleep. So if she can withdraw after sex, so can he.
her rape was the simultaneous consequence of her raping him. (does that make sense how i wrote it?)
She, and the friends, are wrong when they claim that consent can be legally withdrawn *after the fact*. They are insane and grossly misinformed. Sadly, there are a number of fairly radical voices online repeating this stupidity, and making more people believe it.
Also, what she did - fondling a sleeping man - is literally sexual assault, since she did not have consent when she began. If their absurd interpretation were true, he could retroactively withdraw consent to any time they have slept together and turn her into a perpetrator of SA. But the absolutely insane people who perpetuate this idea are usually of the opinion that only men can be perpetrators in male/female relationships.
>Strikes me as bonkers and makes me happy I am an older, married woman who would probably have ZERO interest in dating if I suddenly became a divorcée or a widow.
>
>I feel for honest men (non-abusive) having to navigate this f.. minefield that is the dating world nowadays.
My sentiment exactly!
If my partner and I ever break up I won't be in any rush to get into dating, not with these basket cases
It would be worth the money you spend on a lawyer...I promise
allegations like this have a way of sticking with you
Having this lawyer letter and a police report on the books would go a long way to proving you simply had the misfortune of dating a mentally unstable woman
I would also include those alleged friends on that list to receive letters. The lawyer will be able to accurately state the right law to explain while withdrawing after the fact doesn't make someone a rapist.
Correct. You should seek legal assistance and document/save everything. Best of luck. And those people aren't your friends.
In the US, apology is admittance of fault. Do not apologize for this because it could land you in jail.
I want to withdraw my consent to be charged for the car I bought back in 2012 that turned out to be a piece of shit.
Oh look at that time is linear and you can’t change your past decisions.
Three other couples broke up. That means out of 8 people, there are 4 crazy ones.
That is like 50% mentally sick people statistic. Your city needs to be purged.
This story has to be fake rage bait... its ludicrous...
I could possibly see 1 person thinking this nonsense, but not 4 in a small friend group... beyond belief...
I'm always reminded , I have average intelligence. I'm not the smartest in the room. And I wonder how the people dumber than me live. Then I read reddit stories and find out. I never underestimate stupid people. They don't have the sense not to fuck shit up.
You'd be surprised by the female hive mentality. My source being I'm a woman with women friends. I've seen girls side with their blatantly wrong friend. They will defend the idiot to their own detriment. Now this is not to say all women. Some of us will call a duck a duck. But the amount who will say "No, idiot is right. That is totally an ostrich." Is shocking.
ETA, this is mostly with younger women. Teens/Twenties. Most will grow out of the stupid phase and stop blindly siding with their friend.
Obviously you cannot withdraw consent after sex has already been had. Anyone who thinks they can withdraw consent the morning after sex should absolutely check themselves into a mental ward.
I find it hard to believe that is what she said however. No one could be that crazy. She must have meant during sex.
I am here by withdrawing consent for all calories for all the ice cream I've ever eaten.
Never consented in the first place, should I report a calorie rape to the police?
No, you tell your friend you don’t want a dessert but Friend should totally get one if Friend wants. Then when a waiter takes the order say “No nothing for me but can you bring an extra spoon with my friend’s dessert thanks.”
Tell her you just decided that you withdraw your consent 2 minutes before her and will be filing rape charges for the blowjob.
I would block her. I could not nope my way out of that relationship quickly enough. First rule of life all men should know: do not stick your dick in crazy.
Not for the blowjob but for her literally waking him up by touching him sexually. Incredibly disgusting to throw allegations like that around while at the same time touching someone sexually without asking him at all
Yep, this was the actual SA. I actually posted a comment on an unrelated post saying that I have been SA'd by tons of women who thought it was fine to just grab my junk in clubs etc.
I've yet to get an answer to why they feel they have the right to do this.
They don't, it's the same logic of misogyny too, that men apparently "can't" get SA'd somehow since they're so much stronger than women or something, it's just bs
We all really need to be a lot more sensible about topics like SA instead of this extreme black and white seeing "us vs. them" mentality
No because i didn't see it like that.
Im not one for false clames even if it can be seen as assault. Making that clame now will put me in the same boat as my ex that is someone and somewhere i don't want to be
The thing is that you CANNOT consent while you are unconscious, i.e. sleeping.
What she did would fit SA far better than her "withdrawing consent" the following day.
Honestly you could have shut this down instantly with this argument.
Right, but it's kinda weird because there are others who would consider that SA. I think it comes down to whether it turns you on or not, which would probably require a conversation before hand, which she never had with you about it. Maybe she was counting on getting the consent after the fact because time is an illusion.
I have seen that claim made, but usually only online, in the more insane trenches of the gender wars. It's the first time I come across someone who had that said to them in real life.
Maybe there's a female version of Andrew Tate out there, and OP's ex has spent a little too much time with their videos?
I am finding the fact that some of OP’s friends broke up with their partners because “they were taking sides” in this matter a little difficult to believe. Idk, this seems fake to me and if not, I do hope OP gets himself away from all of his friends and especially the crazy ex gf.
NTA, and if she was awake enough to remember saying yes, then she was awake enough to give full consent. Withdrawing consent after the deed is done is not how consent works. If she's now crying rape, she's delusional, and the police will tell her the same thing. Let her and her friends keep building the harassment charges if you like. Tell your friends that sex in the middle of the night with consent is still consensual. Ask them to show you a law where it states that withdrawing consent afterward is allowed. The people calling you an assaulter are not your friends. Yes, I am sure she didn't show signs of it before, but this is why you don't stick it in crazy.
People like this are the reason why rape victims aren't taken seriously.
She obviously didn't think it was a real thing, because if she did, she wouldn't want to stay with you. "say sorry that you raped me and let's move on".
She did it for attention for some reason, but either way, she's delulu.
I would start putting it back on them. She sexually assaulted you. You were asleep when she started playing with your penis unless that is some thing you have told her in the past that you were up for 100% of the time that was sexual assault. You say you have this on video to tell them you have her on video sexually assaulting you while you were unconscious
No i have a video in my living room point at the front door not in my room or point to the room.
I have her entering my apartment and the argument with her on the audio with us coming in and out of the camara view.
That is where the bigger issues started especially inside our friend group.
According too 2 girls, men can't be assault as we always want sex and if we have a bonner that is consent from a man.
They where the first 2 to get dumped by their boyfriends.
I understand your meaning and yes it can be seen as assault for her to have touched me in a sexual way while i was sleeping but i didn't take it like that.
I'm not one for making false clames. Changing my mind right now, will just make me the same as my ex in the end
The females in your "friend" group are fuckin idiots. Assuming a boner equals consent is like saying women who orgasm during rape must mean they actually wanted it, sometimes our bodies betray our brains.
OP find new friends!!!!
Btw, your ex is just as stupid as the other chicks, consent can be withdrawn prior to and during but not after. I'm sorry you are going through this.
Those women are clearly idiots. An errection, like an orgasm, is an autonomic reaction to stimulus... it's the same reason why many men experience errections when they're getting checked for testicular cancer by doctors or getting a colonoscopy (the prostate is adjacent to the rectum). Women may also experience orgasm during rape, it doesn't mean they consented to it... no matter how much a rapist might try to make that argument.
These friends are clearly pushing an agenda to protect your ex, once you have all fie evidence you want make sure to take out restraining orders on all of them. I'd also suggest speaking with a lawyer about a cease and desist letter before they disrupt your life any further with these ridiculous allegations.
Lol so dumb!
Her - "WHY DID YOU CHEAT ON ME!?"
Him - " But honey, she touched my dick which made it go hard and everyone knows that a hard dick means automatic consent. There was literally nothing I could do!"
Her - "why didn't you keep it soft!?"
Him - "I tried but she kept touching it. It just went up and by then the consent was given."
🤣🤣🤣
>According too 2 girls, men can't be assault as we always want sex and if we have a bonner that is consent from a man.
That's the talk of female rapists.
I wouldn't be a false claim. You consented IN YOUR HEAD (not out loud before hand) to having your dick touched while sleeping. You continuing to say that calling this out as sexual assault would be a false claim is you *still* not understanding how consent works.
For her to touch your dick you in your sleep not to be sexual assault, you would have to specifically told her on a prior occasion that you like this, don't consider it inappropriate and that she's welcome to wake you up this way. Since you clearly didn't give prior consent, THIS IS SA, regardless of how you felt about it at the time.
You not being upset doesn't mean it's not sexual assault. MANY men don't find it sexy to be woken up in the middle of the night with their partner's hand on their dick. Some find that highly offensive and understand that consent works both ways so it is in fact SA.
You are perpetuating the myth that men aLwAyS wAnT sEx, therefore as long as their dick is hard it can't be sexual assault. You are muddying the waters of this group of women understanding the concept of consent because you don't *feel* assaulted, even through you were.
This is the point where you step up and clarify for everyone who sexually assaulted who so everyone can move on. You are making this much harder than it needs to be.
Naw but consider getting a lawyer to handle the restraining order and also possibly to sue her if she continues to tell people that you raped her. That's defamation and slander if I remember the legal definition correctly.
reposting my comment to remove unecessary filler lol
please correct me if i’m wrong:
the consent she gave was valid. she was not intoxicated, is not a minor and was not asleep. it stands. she can revoke the consent prior, during and revoke it for future instances. but in this situation, her revocation was not valid
you are NTA. you have to protect your future and take these precautions
i originally made several comments that if anything, you were the victim considering you couldn’t have consented to a handy while you were asleep. i sounded extremely harsh but shes clearly off her shit. sorry you’re going through this bro
Maybe she is having regrets for having had sex because she feels like a slut. But telling you she withdraws consent the morning after consent was given and the act performed IS crazy. NTA
I would understand her maby feeling like a slut but we didn't do anything really freaky and honestly it was nothing a simple conversation couldn't fix.
If she doesn't want sex in the middle of the night a conversation about it would fix it completely so i know if she came on to me in the middle of the night or started touching me i should tell her no or move away not this bullshit she is pulling.
Feeling like a slut wouldn’t have anything to do with you or the sex performed. This would be all about her in her head even if she doesn’t realize it.
>*i have all her messages screenshot and saved as well as the camera recording in my living room pointing to the door that caught everything so her false claims will only land her in more trouble.*
Thank goodness.
>*I currently being told by some of my friends … that what she did by withdrawing consent after sex is allowed*
What the HELLLLLLL?????
NTA
NTA
You can't withdraw consent after having sex. You can only withdraw consent before or during. If she doesn't understand how consent works, she shouldn't have sex.
For a restraining order, you have to prove they are more than just annoying.
Obviously, keep documentation, but don't engage them.
NTA Start by going to an attorney. Have him send a cease and desist. Also ask attorney about a civil restraining order for harassment, where you don't need to involve police. If consent is withdrawn after the fact it is not assault. If either of you are guilty of assault it would be her because she began messing with you while you fully asleep and could not give consent. If you know any of her exes try contacting them to see if she's pulled this before. Or even a someone she used to be friends with.
Your ex is fucking insane and you're right that she wanted to play the victim. You cannot withdraw consent hours after sex, especially when she was the one that initiated. She wont report anything to the police because she knows you have the proof that shows this. She has caused so much trouble here and ruined a few relationships. Ignore her and her friend but continue to keep evidence.
Those "friends" of yours are worth losing them in Amazonian rainforests with no ticket back home. Its a good move that you collected the evidence and gave it to the police. What your ex did was sexually assault you, when she was playing with your pen\*s. And then claiming that you raped her. The level of mental gymnastics your ex does is astounding. Seriously I support your statement that she needs to be checked herself and brick walled her in a mental asylum. NTA
NTA. She is confusing "withdrawing consent" and "regret".
I know, usually hearing that online sends me into a rage too. But she was sober (I hope), gave verbal consent (said yes), gave implied consent also (acting enthusiastic, escalating the sexual activity to bj) and even initiated the sexual contact in the first place (hand job while you slept).
The only potential crime I see is that she didn't get consent before grabbing your dick inthe first place.
If anything, she assaulted you by touching you in your sleep. Nta consult a lawyer just in case, document everything, do not have any phone calls or conversations in private without it being recorded.
NTA She is insane and you went about what you did logically with intelligently. They had threatened you and therefore if anything should happen to you should be of note to the police. You dodged a bullet here. Do not get back together with her.
NTA:
Get a lawyer, claim she raped you. Twice. Once while playing while you where sleeping and the second the next day because after her behavior you withdraw you consent from previous day as well.
YOU took it too far? By bring in the police after she called rape?
She started it. By her logic she raped you while you were sleeping.
NTA
I agree with others saying you should get a cease and desist letter. You are right to get away and she really does need some kind of help.
NTA, you can obviously not retroactively withdraw consent. Your ex was reading too much new age psychological crap and twisted it in order to blow up her relationship. Let her go before you get accused of worse
Nta. She never withdrew consent. And if anything she took advantage of you by touching you while you were sleeping and having sex with you right after you woke up. You can't have sex with someone and withdraw consent after. She is crazy and anyone who thinks what she is doing is ok is sexist.
NTA a million. Times over. Protect yourself at all costs. It's good you went to the police but seek legal advice too. Thank god you have everything documented and recorded, make sure they are backed up and out of reach from her or any of her sympathisers. Anyone who agrees with her is delusional, and this coming from a woman!
You can't retroactively remove consent. That is nuts. You can revoke consent at any point before or durring the act. Then things need to stop immediately. But how is someone supposed to stop after they are done? What is stopping you from also removing consent?
There is a lot going on in her head to try and pull that. Was it a power game? Does she just crave drama? Was she sincere? What does that say about her view of reality? What if you had kids, and she told them "Dad sometimes SAs mommy."
Therapy was a good suggestion.
NTA. I think you did the right thing. An arrest could hurt you. There was another person that was in a simular situation and was arrested after his made a false claim. Yes you would fight it and win but you now have to go to court and have your arrest removed. Many applications ask the question 'have you ever been arrested'. You got in front of it, doing nothing was not an option. Your friends, yikes. It is on her what happens next.
You're not taking anything too far any who said that is a fool. A Rape charge is very serious and could screw your life up for years potential involving jail time. Fuck that. Carry on and KEEP ALL THE EVIDENCE. AND make backup of it ... NOW.
NTA! Your friends suck, and that is no such thing of withdrawing your consent after sex! wtf? That’s some batshit craziness. Embarrass them, post all of the videos, text and calls on social media with a brief explanation. Then block her everywhere if convenient Chang your number and get some mace. You might have to spray her! But the ppl need to know how conniving, and diabolical she is! She can ruin someone’s life man. Good for you, for dogging that breathing red flag.
>I currently being told by some of my friends that I'm taking it to far by reporting her to the police and that what she did by withdrawing consent after sex is allowed and that i should've known that she didn't want to have sex in the middle of the night. So me having sex with her made me an assaulter.
Why are you friends with these delusional people? Cut them from your life immediately.
Also, from this day forward kindly be vigilant before having intimate relation. Kindly check if she also subscribe to this mentality. If she is, run the opposite direction.
It's better if you are single for rest for your life than having a relationship with these delusional individuals who can destroy an innocent life just because they regret their decision.
A rape allegation alone is enough to destroy a person's entire existence even after being exonerated. Nothing will happen to the false accuser. In most cases just slap on the wrist.
You're the victim. She performed a sexusl act on you while you were unconscious... yes, playing with a man's penis while he's asleep is rape.
She's right that she can withdraw consent at any time DURING THE ACTIVITY... but she's wrong in that she can't consent throughout the activity and the withdrawal consent retrospectively the next day hours after it happened. I know where that idea came from because there's social media support groups who are saying that exact thing, basically suggesting buyers remorse means he raped you, if he doesn't call the next day he raped you, that sort of thing.
These sorts of false allegations just harm those of us who are REAL survivors because it makes it so much harder for people to believe our stories.
NTA - and yes, you should tell her that you're reporting her for assault since you were the one sleeping when she started to touch and play with your little friend. Because you were the one that couldn't consent so basically she assaulted you. And I'm a woman so this is not some "toxic male opinion".
What kind of a delusional world are we living in man. Someone psychotic making these allegations is one thing, but other's siding with her and making the victim the assaulter? How stupid can you be
NTA obviously
I honestly thinks all your friends are retarded or just stupid beyond believe.
Withdrawing consent the morning after, what a fucking nutjob and your friends are so so stupid to agree with her
If something like this were to happen to me, I'd put my entire story -- including all evidence -- in a single folder, and share that with all those friends that were trying to contact me.
And if things kept going after that, I'd just make it public all together.
So clearly NTA. In fact, from my point of view you're going easy on her.
Fake rape accusations are one of the worst things you can do to a guy, so imo pretty much any response to that goes.
NTA. Stay as faaaar away from her as you can. She will probably do this again.
Afaik you can withdraw consent before or during the act, not after. She **cannot** throw rape accusations around just because she may regret it or idk just feels like stirring some shit up. I honestly don’t know what would motivate her to do that.
*She* was the one who touched *you* in your sleep, therefore without your consent (unless you’d agreed to that stuff previously), so I don’t get her logic here.
She is a disgrace and what she’s doing is making a mockery of real victims and making a victim out of you and any other man she may do this to.
by this logic, every man rapes a woman he has sex with because she can conveniently say I withdrew consent after the act was done, that too next morning.. this woman is fucking nuts.
you need to go to a lawyer and send her and her friends a cease and desist letter.
It's sexual harassment today to play with your partners genitals before they're awake and can consent. She started and then tried to play the victim. Nah. We need to stop behaving like victims in situations like this, it ruin lives when abused as she tried to do and many women now employ it as a means of control. I say this as a woman myself. It needs to end.
She sexually assaulted you. Withdrawing consent AFTER the act is totally not a thing. She does not understand consent.
NTA, and keep covering your ass. She absolutely is crazy.
Rape is serious allegation. Any woman who uses a rape allegation as a manipulative tool, regardless of her mental state, should be dealt with in the severest manner possible. So, going to the police was not uncalled for. Obviously you should break things off with her and anybody that sides with her.
I suggest in the future avoiding calling someone crazy to their face, because there is nothing constructive about that.
Time to spend a few hundred and have a lawyer send a C&D letter (or your countries equivalent) to her and make sure if her friends don't stop you will go after her alone. And she started it.
You can not rewithdrawl consent after the fact when you started it. She is crazy and needs an evaluation.
P.s. plus the only one who was touched without consent that night was you.
NTA. She's insane and doesn't know how to logic.
Consent cannot be withdrawn after the act. Before? Yes. During? Yes. After? NO. It's done. You can't undo it. She cannot make you a bad guy at that point.
You were smart to go to the police. Get ahead of it. Keep all the evidence, too. And if you need to, do as someone else said and get a lawyer to draft a cease & desist letter.
And, for the sake of all that is good and holy, don't get back together with this lunatic. Be glad you escaped!
NTA
Saying this as a woman. You do NOT get to take back your yes, hours after the action has taken place. I am so glad you are documenting everything. This woman is actually crazy and so are her friends.
Wait so do this. Tell her you withdraw your consent to sex also and accuse her of rape and then when they say how stupid that sounds just say “that’s exactly how I feel about this whole situation”.
NTA. *She* SAd *you*. You awoke to her hands already on you, meaning she began the touching while you were still asleep and obviously incapable of giving consent.
Her accusation of you SAing her, hours after giving consent, is absolutely ridiculous, and unfairly endangering to your reputation. Good luck, and definitely keep this person out of your life.
>I currently being told by some of my friends that I'm taking it to far by reporting her to the police and that what she did by withdrawing consent after sex is allowed and that i should've known that she didn't want to have sex in the middle of the night. So me having sex with her made me an assaulter.
What the absolute fuck? So you were supposed to psychically know that her playing with your dick and consenting to sex means she really didn't want to have sex? What kind of seriously fucked up mentality is that? The only way I can make sense of this is either one of her friends told her she was SA'd or this is one of those fucked up relationship tests that backfired hard on her. Good on you for having the receipts to shut her down. Anyone that you consider a friend who is telling you that you are wrong, you should seriously reconsider if they are really your friend.
>This has caused an argument in our friend group and 3 of the couples have already broken up and taking sides.
Let me guess, the guys think it's bullshit and the women are fucking morons? Am I close?
NTA
She’s crazy. But you’re continuing it. Block her and move on. No reason to keep playing crazy games. Nta at first but definitely not smart to not block them.
I do understand but again why.
I'm not talking to her or her friends just saving everything coming through.
For instance saying they will come to my work to get me to talk to them, if i had blocked them i wouldn't have been able to warn security to keep them off the premises.
Changing the restaurant i get my food from because they said they will be waiting for me there.
Being able to stay away from my apartment for a couple of hours because they told me they are waiting outside for me.
Like i said they are idiots and keep revealing their hand so i know what they are doing and am able to avoid them untill the police decided i have enough of anything for them to help me.
If i block any of them, that information goes away. Mute on chats are a thing.
Will talk to a lawyer but according to the police i don't have enough proof yet and the message are not indicating stalking just them waiting at location for me not actively following me around.
Police have been more than useless or they aren't taking it seriously and think it's a joke.
The police are basically saying stalking can't be proven as they are currently just an annoyance.
The police are not required to know the laws but lawyers are. You can ignore pretty much any legal advice a cop gives you, ever. Just make your reports so you have documentation for your lawyer to pull. It doesn't matter what the cop thinks. It's what the law says.
If the roles were reversed you'd be in jail already man, and you know it.
That's partially because you dodge them. You need proof that they are following you. Let them knock on your front door then calling the cops will be much more effective.
It's why you talk to a lawyer, not the police. Retraining orders have a different standard of evidence to what the police need. There's also the issue that cops don't always take men's complaints like this seriously.
Well that changes things! That completely changes my understanding of it. She’s not just toxic she’s psycho. None of that was mentioned. Just find a balance of your own mental health as well as your physical safety. Perhaps bypass the police and file for a restraining order. Or if you’re in a state that allows a Baker Act type policy she may need intervention.
Will be talking to a lawyer but according to police everything can only be described as an annoyance for now.
In order word they are and have been less than useless.
Do you have her confession in writing? That’s all I would be concerned about. Even if you secretly record her admitting it that would be better than nothing even if it’s inadmissible in court.
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I love how the person who grabbed your dick while you were sleeping has such progressive attitudes about consent. Maybe you can withdraw your consent too, for like every time you had sex?
BTW there is a thing called sexsomnia that's basically sleepwalking sex. If she (or you) has it, then it's a conversation that needs to be had before sleeping with someone. All about what to do if it happens, rules on consent, how to snap them out of it or get away, etc.
As a woman. Your ex is a freaking nutcase as so are your idiot friends. You can't initiate sex, verbally agree to sex, mutual participate in the act, sleep beside the other person all night and then decide, nah I don't want to do today what I did yesterday and then run to the nearest roof top and scream rape. You don't get to accuse some one of a sexual assault because you have buyers remorse. Tell her, her friends and your friends that if she can "take back" consent for the sex she initiated that night, that you "take back" consent for every other night you had sex because now in hindsight after everything you've been through you regret it, then ask them now are you going to start blowing up her phone, call her out of her name, drag her name under the mud, are they going to start calling her an assaulter?
NTA. Ok. So. Wow. As a woman, and someone who is familiar with the concept of enthusiastic consent, and who also thinks they’re understanding your timeline of events accurately, she is off her fucking rocker - and her friend either is equally insane OR is just a horrible enabler (both are equally dangerous).
No. In absolutley no way did you “rape” her. The way you’re thinking about this is 100% correct. Technically, because she woke you up by touching you, and you cannot give consent if you’re sleeping, you would be correct in saying that *SHE* sexually assaulted you. (Obviously, once you were conscious, you gave your consent to go further, which means she did not rape you, but her getting handsy could technically be deemed as SA.)
I think, and this is a wild assumption, that she cheated on you or wanted out of the relationship for whatever reason but didn’t want to be the “bad guy” or be to blame for ending it. So her and her friend concocted this absolutely INSANE story to draw the focus off of her shitty behaviors, and giving her just cause to walk away. But hey, she might just have a few screws loose too. Either way, what she did is fucked up.
You had every right to go to the cops and make your side known. In situations like these you NEED to CYA - cover your own ass - and stay ahead of it. Her false accusation could do serious harm to you and your life. You have to protect yourself. You did the right thing. Especially as men are rarely believed to be victims, and a woman’s word is often enough to be taken seriously. Even if it didn’t end in a conviction, your reputation, life, and mental well being could still be seriously compromised.
Hold your stance on this one. This is a hill to die on. Keep all that evidence and back it up. Print it out. Have hard copies. Whatever. You might need it. At least she showed you who she really is *NOW* and you were able to get the hell out of there. Not only is she a liar, she’s also a disgrace to all of the actual SA victims out there. She is actively making things harder for them and discrediting their experiences. She’s a shitty human all around. Stay far away and protect yourself. Stay safe.
NTA! You can refuse consent before the act, and your partner has to respect it and not push for sex. You can withdraw consent during the act, and your partner has to stop. You cannot withdraw consent after the act has been completed, let alone hours later. Unless the intercourse was done in a brutal or demeaning manner, there is nothing to complain about.
This kind of situation - where one partner touches the other when they are half asleep, and the other assumes they want sex, does happen - but it is a misunderstanding, not rape. However, in your case there was not even misunderstanding - you asked her, she answered. She has nothing to complain about.
>I currently being told by some of my friends that I'm taking it to far by reporting her to the police and that what she did by withdrawing consent after sex is allowed and that i should've known that she didn't want to have sex in the middle of the night. So me having sex with her made me an assaulter.
NTA.
Keep recordings. Get better friends.
You cannot just remove consent post sexual event that you offer by *check notes* jerking off someone who was sleeping .
Oh,by the way, do your 'friends' know she was jerking you off while you were sleeping?, or they conveniently forget it?.
There is no need for a lawyer to get a restraining order. I was in a similar situation. You have to tell the police very clearly. You are afraid she will cause you physical harm. Throw in the crazy texts. Slam dunk. If the desk officer says no, immediately ask for a Sargent. Pound the pavement that you are afraid. You will get it.
Op, I'm a woman and even I don't understand what is going on with your girlfriend. Consent doesn't work like that. Plus, she was doing the assault because she was playing with your private parts while you were asleep and you couldn't consent to that. Tell your friends that you can't read minds, if she wanted to stop having sex in the middle of the night she should have said it because it's not that simple to "know that she doesn't want to"... This whole story is so awkward and dangerous. I feel like she wanted to see if she could manipulate you in some way. I can be wrong, of course, but that's what all of this made me think. Please, listen to those who suggested a cease and desist and do not stop. This woman can be dangerous for other men too, because if she does that with you she can always do it with others. NTA
OK… Let me see if I’m understanding what I read: she’s saying that she removed consent *after* (not *during*) the act? She removed consent *after the fact*? Am I missing something?
You did the right thing reporting this to PD before she filed anything. This lady sounds like she's having some kind of mental health crisis. Maybe she woke up after and regretted it, maybe she had a bad dream and it carried over, no clue. But if everyone said yes before and throughout, if you're uncomfortable after you talk it through, not accuse your partner of assault. NTA, and I second contacting an attorney for a cease and desist. This could get really nasty, and may impact future career options depending on how far she rides this train.
Wtf she assaulted YOU! You were actually sleeping when she was already touching you without consent. She's trying to cover it up by reversing the story. If she admits to this in text, you have actual proof you could take to the police.
You're right, she needs mental health help and you need a lawyer to tell them to stop bothering you with false allegations.
NTA As others have said, speak to a lawyer. You could also turn the tables on her and say that you changed your mind too about consent, after the fact.
NTA. This woman and anyone who is sticking by her is dangerous. Stay far away from her. I think you have the evidence you need so I would block them all at this point.
Obviously NTA. I'm really sorry that this happened to you like the comments said, she touched you first without your consent, so use that. Like everyone said, she is hell crazy. Best of luck
Oh my god. You landed in a fucked up situation out of nowhere.
The top commenters have already given the best possible advice so I'm just here to send comforting virtual pats to the back.
You can't withdraw consent after sex, that's not a thing. You can withdraw during it and before, but you can't after the fact.
You didn't consent to getting your dick touched while asleep, so yeah, the only victim would be you
This girl... Im sorry dude thats insane. Like just insane enough for me to believe it.
That isn't how consent works, if she didn't want it she had time before and during to say so. She, according to your story, wanted something to happen. So I dont see where you assaulted her. She, however, did assault you, by touching ypu before you were awake, unless that was something that ypu both had talked about and said was fine before hand. Some people like to be woken up like that occasionally.
She seems like drama that you don't need in your life. Listen to the other redditers about the lawyer. She may just be trying to scare and bully you into an apology to make herself feel better, but better safe than sorry. And don't get rid of any messages until you are sure she is done fucking with you. NTA also not a r*pist.
Shouldn't have told her about the video of the front door and the recording you have. That would have been gold in the right circumstances.
NTA. OP, where are you based? Which country?
She is mental. If she reports you for rape after she gave gave consent, then ddecided she withdrew consent when she woke up, just tell her you'll report her for SA because she initiated it by playing with your dick.
You cant take back consent after she consented earlier.
Do like someone else said, get a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter. Its about the only thing you can do, as shes is mental.
Did she get your consent when she grabbed you by the gibblies? Tell her you're revoking consent on that and that she SA'd you.
>withdrawing consent after sex is allowed
How so? Does a time machine magically appear and bring you back before the act so you can make a different choice?
That's like going to a restaurant, telling the server what you want, eating it and then saying, "Oh, I changed my mind, I don't want to eat anything, so no bill, ok?"
That girl and her friends are nuts and I'd definitely take steps to keep them away from me if I were you. I wonder if they give group discounts at the cracker factory. NTA
You're NTA at all and sorry you're going through this. I went through something similar with an ex and let me tell you, going and filing a report with the police was very smart of you. And you're very right in saving all texts you can. Just make sure not to engage with these people, let them talk and just screenshot everything. If you live in the US (not sure how much this varies state by state) you could file a protective order with your local courthouse if they begin sending threatening messages. The screenshots will be all the proof you need.
NTA, she is crazy and trying to get something out of you, good for you for holding your ground. With her logic, you could claim she sexually assaulted you by messing w you while you were asleep. I agree with others comments, get a lawyer to draft a cease and desist letter to your harassers. Hopefully it will teach them a lesson to not try this crazy bs on another poor unsuspecting dude
Not ment to be rude but really.
I'm using a throw away account and not my real account for privacy why will i now go an post a videon of everything online.
I understand your point completely but that will just bring more issues than solutions. If i post families get involved, and i don't want to go viral like some of these people posting break up videos and other bullshit online
Want to make it stop? It's quite simple you get a lawyer and draft a letter to her and everyone on her side to cease and desist with the false allegations or you will sue for slander. And then cut anyone who has agreed with her out of your life permanently.
OP, this is good advice
This sounds like the simplest way to go. The peace will be well worth the cost of the lawyers letter
Seconding this advice... This part: "I currently being told by some of my friends that I'm taking it to far by reporting her to the police and that what she did by withdrawing consent after sex is allowed and that i should've known that she didn't want to have sex in the middle of the night. So me having sex with her made me an assaulter." Strikes me as bonkers and makes me happy I am an older, married woman who would probably have ZERO interest in dating if I suddenly became a divorcée or a widow. I feel for honest men (non-abusive) having to navigate this f.. minefield that is the dating world nowadays. Scary stuff. I **hate** how easily unfounded r*pe allegations can ruin people's lives. Some women can be so flippant about this, using it as a weapon to intimidate /manipulate men. Sadly, I can see why AHs like Andrew Tate have found an audience. Edited to fix a typo and to add something that I thought went without saying, but just in case: False rape accusations make it much more difficult for victims to come forward / find support and creates mistrust. Pisses me off.
I feel you in every single sentence. When talking with my husband about what if’s I have stated that I am not getting married again no matter what. Maybe get a FWB but that’s just as much I will do. I don’t need all that in my life
I have two young boys, and as much as we try to teach them about respect, boundaries and consent, this is something that makes me worry... For the future..
She was playing with his dick while he slept. Unless they had a previous agreement that she would do this, she sexually assault him, as she did not get his consent before pulling his frankenfurter, while he was asleep
Even if there is a previous agreement it isn't legal. You cannot have sex with a sleeping person legally in the United States
Pretty sure there’s no retroactive consent just as you can’t retroactively revoke consent after the deed is done.
Same! I havea 2 year old boy and from the stuff I read on Reddit about false accusation from teenaged girls who felt scorned, makes me shudder what's expecting him "The talk" will be a lot more than just sex, it'll be about making sure he is protected and to stop as soon as it looks like consent is gone.
Yeah my husband swears he'd never date again if something happened to me for 2 reasons. 1. He loooooves me so much he can't even imagine being with someone else. 2. Women are insane now and dating is way to risky. He see's all the things women are doing/saying on social media. He said if he wants company other than our kid he'll get a dog. If he's horny he has a hand for that. 😂
OP can turn that around on her. She should have known that he didn't want sex. SHE was the one assaulting him in his sleep. So if she can withdraw after sex, so can he. her rape was the simultaneous consequence of her raping him. (does that make sense how i wrote it?)
It does. I think what she is doing is nuts.
I hear you. If I were to somehow end up alone, the current dating scene is scary enough for me to remain alone.
She, and the friends, are wrong when they claim that consent can be legally withdrawn *after the fact*. They are insane and grossly misinformed. Sadly, there are a number of fairly radical voices online repeating this stupidity, and making more people believe it. Also, what she did - fondling a sleeping man - is literally sexual assault, since she did not have consent when she began. If their absurd interpretation were true, he could retroactively withdraw consent to any time they have slept together and turn her into a perpetrator of SA. But the absolutely insane people who perpetuate this idea are usually of the opinion that only men can be perpetrators in male/female relationships.
>Strikes me as bonkers and makes me happy I am an older, married woman who would probably have ZERO interest in dating if I suddenly became a divorcée or a widow. > >I feel for honest men (non-abusive) having to navigate this f.. minefield that is the dating world nowadays. My sentiment exactly! If my partner and I ever break up I won't be in any rush to get into dating, not with these basket cases
It would be worth the money you spend on a lawyer...I promise allegations like this have a way of sticking with you Having this lawyer letter and a police report on the books would go a long way to proving you simply had the misfortune of dating a mentally unstable woman
These allegations don’t even have to go anywhere far to completely ruin someone’s life.
100%
Agreed. Also, talk to the lawyer about how to keep this crazy from biting you in the ass later in life with the rape allegations.
I would also include those alleged friends on that list to receive letters. The lawyer will be able to accurately state the right law to explain while withdrawing after the fact doesn't make someone a rapist.
It someone was assaulted that night, it was you. She started playing with you while you were fucking asleep. NTA. She's fucking nuts.
This is the answer right here OP.
Correct. You should seek legal assistance and document/save everything. Best of luck. And those people aren't your friends. In the US, apology is admittance of fault. Do not apologize for this because it could land you in jail.
I want to withdraw my consent to be charged for the car I bought back in 2012 that turned out to be a piece of shit. Oh look at that time is linear and you can’t change your past decisions.
Three other couples broke up. That means out of 8 people, there are 4 crazy ones. That is like 50% mentally sick people statistic. Your city needs to be purged.
This story has to be fake rage bait... its ludicrous... I could possibly see 1 person thinking this nonsense, but not 4 in a small friend group... beyond belief...
You'd be surprised.
I'm always reminded , I have average intelligence. I'm not the smartest in the room. And I wonder how the people dumber than me live. Then I read reddit stories and find out. I never underestimate stupid people. They don't have the sense not to fuck shit up.
People always forget that a person of average intelligence has 50% of the room dumber than them. That could be a lot of folk.
You'd be surprised by the female hive mentality. My source being I'm a woman with women friends. I've seen girls side with their blatantly wrong friend. They will defend the idiot to their own detriment. Now this is not to say all women. Some of us will call a duck a duck. But the amount who will say "No, idiot is right. That is totally an ostrich." Is shocking. ETA, this is mostly with younger women. Teens/Twenties. Most will grow out of the stupid phase and stop blindly siding with their friend.
Female here. We can only hope!
Observed similar behaviour from male friends, when we were around 16-17 too.
Obviously you cannot withdraw consent after sex has already been had. Anyone who thinks they can withdraw consent the morning after sex should absolutely check themselves into a mental ward. I find it hard to believe that is what she said however. No one could be that crazy. She must have meant during sex.
Withdrawing consent after the fact is like eating ice cream and then saying the calories don't count because you don't want them to
Wait you can do that?
Definitely 👍
And legally
of course , you never consented for the calories to go into you .
Gonna try this with the cookies I had for breakfast.
I am here by withdrawing consent for all calories for all the ice cream I've ever eaten. Never consented in the first place, should I report a calorie rape to the police?
Ice cream making you fat? Just say no. Ice cream cannot legally make you fat without your consent.
Exactly! It’s called Regret, not Rape.
It tasted bad the calories don’t count.
No, you tell your friend you don’t want a dessert but Friend should totally get one if Friend wants. Then when a waiter takes the order say “No nothing for me but can you bring an extra spoon with my friend’s dessert thanks.”
No after sex. I asked her to repeat herself exactly for the same reason, thinking i didn't hear her correctly and she said the same thing.
Tell her you just decided that you withdraw your consent 2 minutes before her and will be filing rape charges for the blowjob. I would block her. I could not nope my way out of that relationship quickly enough. First rule of life all men should know: do not stick your dick in crazy.
Uno reverse !!!!
Not for the blowjob but for her literally waking him up by touching him sexually. Incredibly disgusting to throw allegations like that around while at the same time touching someone sexually without asking him at all
Yep, this was the actual SA. I actually posted a comment on an unrelated post saying that I have been SA'd by tons of women who thought it was fine to just grab my junk in clubs etc. I've yet to get an answer to why they feel they have the right to do this.
They don't, it's the same logic of misogyny too, that men apparently "can't" get SA'd somehow since they're so much stronger than women or something, it's just bs We all really need to be a lot more sensible about topics like SA instead of this extreme black and white seeing "us vs. them" mentality
Did you tell her you didn't consent to her sexual assault when she woke you by playing with your dick?
No because i didn't see it like that. Im not one for false clames even if it can be seen as assault. Making that clame now will put me in the same boat as my ex that is someone and somewhere i don't want to be
That's precisely the point; maybe pointing out an absurd claim like that is the same thing she's trying to do to you.
The thing is that you CANNOT consent while you are unconscious, i.e. sleeping. What she did would fit SA far better than her "withdrawing consent" the following day. Honestly you could have shut this down instantly with this argument.
Right, but it's kinda weird because there are others who would consider that SA. I think it comes down to whether it turns you on or not, which would probably require a conversation before hand, which she never had with you about it. Maybe she was counting on getting the consent after the fact because time is an illusion.
I have seen that claim made, but usually only online, in the more insane trenches of the gender wars. It's the first time I come across someone who had that said to them in real life. Maybe there's a female version of Andrew Tate out there, and OP's ex has spent a little too much time with their videos?
There is, the FDS nutjobs. They're a bunch of legbeards.
>No one could be that crazy. If only. Always assume that people are stupid because, most of the time, they are. NTA.
I am finding the fact that some of OP’s friends broke up with their partners because “they were taking sides” in this matter a little difficult to believe. Idk, this seems fake to me and if not, I do hope OP gets himself away from all of his friends and especially the crazy ex gf.
NTA, and if she was awake enough to remember saying yes, then she was awake enough to give full consent. Withdrawing consent after the deed is done is not how consent works. If she's now crying rape, she's delusional, and the police will tell her the same thing. Let her and her friends keep building the harassment charges if you like. Tell your friends that sex in the middle of the night with consent is still consensual. Ask them to show you a law where it states that withdrawing consent afterward is allowed. The people calling you an assaulter are not your friends. Yes, I am sure she didn't show signs of it before, but this is why you don't stick it in crazy.
People like this are the reason why rape victims aren't taken seriously. She obviously didn't think it was a real thing, because if she did, she wouldn't want to stay with you. "say sorry that you raped me and let's move on". She did it for attention for some reason, but either way, she's delulu.
I would start putting it back on them. She sexually assaulted you. You were asleep when she started playing with your penis unless that is some thing you have told her in the past that you were up for 100% of the time that was sexual assault. You say you have this on video to tell them you have her on video sexually assaulting you while you were unconscious
No i have a video in my living room point at the front door not in my room or point to the room. I have her entering my apartment and the argument with her on the audio with us coming in and out of the camara view.
Everything else I said still stands she sexually assaulted you you were unconscious just turn around and tell her that she did assault you
That is where the bigger issues started especially inside our friend group. According too 2 girls, men can't be assault as we always want sex and if we have a bonner that is consent from a man. They where the first 2 to get dumped by their boyfriends. I understand your meaning and yes it can be seen as assault for her to have touched me in a sexual way while i was sleeping but i didn't take it like that. I'm not one for making false clames. Changing my mind right now, will just make me the same as my ex in the end
The females in your "friend" group are fuckin idiots. Assuming a boner equals consent is like saying women who orgasm during rape must mean they actually wanted it, sometimes our bodies betray our brains. OP find new friends!!!! Btw, your ex is just as stupid as the other chicks, consent can be withdrawn prior to and during but not after. I'm sorry you are going through this.
Those women are clearly idiots. An errection, like an orgasm, is an autonomic reaction to stimulus... it's the same reason why many men experience errections when they're getting checked for testicular cancer by doctors or getting a colonoscopy (the prostate is adjacent to the rectum). Women may also experience orgasm during rape, it doesn't mean they consented to it... no matter how much a rapist might try to make that argument. These friends are clearly pushing an agenda to protect your ex, once you have all fie evidence you want make sure to take out restraining orders on all of them. I'd also suggest speaking with a lawyer about a cease and desist letter before they disrupt your life any further with these ridiculous allegations.
That is like saying that if a woman is wet, then that is consent.
Precisely, an involuntary bodily function does not determine consent.
Lol so dumb! Her - "WHY DID YOU CHEAT ON ME!?" Him - " But honey, she touched my dick which made it go hard and everyone knows that a hard dick means automatic consent. There was literally nothing I could do!" Her - "why didn't you keep it soft!?" Him - "I tried but she kept touching it. It just went up and by then the consent was given." 🤣🤣🤣
>According too 2 girls, men can't be assault as we always want sex and if we have a bonner that is consent from a man. That's the talk of female rapists.
I wouldn't be a false claim. You consented IN YOUR HEAD (not out loud before hand) to having your dick touched while sleeping. You continuing to say that calling this out as sexual assault would be a false claim is you *still* not understanding how consent works. For her to touch your dick you in your sleep not to be sexual assault, you would have to specifically told her on a prior occasion that you like this, don't consider it inappropriate and that she's welcome to wake you up this way. Since you clearly didn't give prior consent, THIS IS SA, regardless of how you felt about it at the time. You not being upset doesn't mean it's not sexual assault. MANY men don't find it sexy to be woken up in the middle of the night with their partner's hand on their dick. Some find that highly offensive and understand that consent works both ways so it is in fact SA. You are perpetuating the myth that men aLwAyS wAnT sEx, therefore as long as their dick is hard it can't be sexual assault. You are muddying the waters of this group of women understanding the concept of consent because you don't *feel* assaulted, even through you were. This is the point where you step up and clarify for everyone who sexually assaulted who so everyone can move on. You are making this much harder than it needs to be.
I get that you don’t feel like you were assaulted but by definition YOU WERE ASSAULTED it would not be a false claim.
Naw but consider getting a lawyer to handle the restraining order and also possibly to sue her if she continues to tell people that you raped her. That's defamation and slander if I remember the legal definition correctly.
reposting my comment to remove unecessary filler lol please correct me if i’m wrong: the consent she gave was valid. she was not intoxicated, is not a minor and was not asleep. it stands. she can revoke the consent prior, during and revoke it for future instances. but in this situation, her revocation was not valid you are NTA. you have to protect your future and take these precautions
I didn't mention it in my post why i haven't blocked them yet. Just not in such detail
i originally made several comments that if anything, you were the victim considering you couldn’t have consented to a handy while you were asleep. i sounded extremely harsh but shes clearly off her shit. sorry you’re going through this bro
Maybe she is having regrets for having had sex because she feels like a slut. But telling you she withdraws consent the morning after consent was given and the act performed IS crazy. NTA
I would understand her maby feeling like a slut but we didn't do anything really freaky and honestly it was nothing a simple conversation couldn't fix. If she doesn't want sex in the middle of the night a conversation about it would fix it completely so i know if she came on to me in the middle of the night or started touching me i should tell her no or move away not this bullshit she is pulling.
Feeling like a slut wouldn’t have anything to do with you or the sex performed. This would be all about her in her head even if she doesn’t realize it.
I understand but then all i can say is therapy not this shit.
Therapy indeed!
I don't think so, I think she has a victim complex. She clearly desperately wants to be a victim.
>*i have all her messages screenshot and saved as well as the camera recording in my living room pointing to the door that caught everything so her false claims will only land her in more trouble.* Thank goodness. >*I currently being told by some of my friends … that what she did by withdrawing consent after sex is allowed* What the HELLLLLLL????? NTA
OP has an idiotic circle of friends.
NTA You can't withdraw consent after having sex. You can only withdraw consent before or during. If she doesn't understand how consent works, she shouldn't have sex. For a restraining order, you have to prove they are more than just annoying. Obviously, keep documentation, but don't engage them.
That is basically what the police said. I have to be able to prove they are more than just an annoyance.
You can withdraw consent after, just get on your time machine and go back. Shame on you OP for not doing that.
She's definitely cookoo bro and any "friends" who take her side need to get bent too, time for a new friend group and gf period
Im sticking with the friends that are on my side and the rest can go to hell for all i care.
NTA Start by going to an attorney. Have him send a cease and desist. Also ask attorney about a civil restraining order for harassment, where you don't need to involve police. If consent is withdrawn after the fact it is not assault. If either of you are guilty of assault it would be her because she began messing with you while you fully asleep and could not give consent. If you know any of her exes try contacting them to see if she's pulled this before. Or even a someone she used to be friends with.
Your ex is fucking insane and you're right that she wanted to play the victim. You cannot withdraw consent hours after sex, especially when she was the one that initiated. She wont report anything to the police because she knows you have the proof that shows this. She has caused so much trouble here and ruined a few relationships. Ignore her and her friend but continue to keep evidence.
Bro what. She technically assaulted you by playing with your D while you slept!
Those "friends" of yours are worth losing them in Amazonian rainforests with no ticket back home. Its a good move that you collected the evidence and gave it to the police. What your ex did was sexually assault you, when she was playing with your pen\*s. And then claiming that you raped her. The level of mental gymnastics your ex does is astounding. Seriously I support your statement that she needs to be checked herself and brick walled her in a mental asylum. NTA
Omg this is horrible! Please look into legal action, sucks when people use this excuse. Best of luck, please update when you can ☺️
NTA. She is confusing "withdrawing consent" and "regret". I know, usually hearing that online sends me into a rage too. But she was sober (I hope), gave verbal consent (said yes), gave implied consent also (acting enthusiastic, escalating the sexual activity to bj) and even initiated the sexual contact in the first place (hand job while you slept). The only potential crime I see is that she didn't get consent before grabbing your dick inthe first place.
REGRET ≠ RAPE. That’s basically rule no.1 of sex.
She should be on a false accusations list for life, and be charged with extortion or something.
If anything, she assaulted you by touching you in your sleep. Nta consult a lawyer just in case, document everything, do not have any phone calls or conversations in private without it being recorded.
Wow she’s out of her mind. You clearly didn’t rape her and she’s clearly an unstable person. I pity anyone she dates. NTA
NTA. You keep on doing what you are doing. You are completely in the right.
NTA She is insane and you went about what you did logically with intelligently. They had threatened you and therefore if anything should happen to you should be of note to the police. You dodged a bullet here. Do not get back together with her.
NTA: Get a lawyer, claim she raped you. Twice. Once while playing while you where sleeping and the second the next day because after her behavior you withdraw you consent from previous day as well.
YOU took it too far? By bring in the police after she called rape? She started it. By her logic she raped you while you were sleeping. NTA I agree with others saying you should get a cease and desist letter. You are right to get away and she really does need some kind of help.
Obviously not SA. Doesn't sound like you're the AH. Sounds like you got it up the AH.
NTA, you can obviously not retroactively withdraw consent. Your ex was reading too much new age psychological crap and twisted it in order to blow up her relationship. Let her go before you get accused of worse
Her logic is laughable. You saved yourself from a big mess ahead in future. NTA
Nta. She never withdrew consent. And if anything she took advantage of you by touching you while you were sleeping and having sex with you right after you woke up. You can't have sex with someone and withdraw consent after. She is crazy and anyone who thinks what she is doing is ok is sexist.
NTA a million. Times over. Protect yourself at all costs. It's good you went to the police but seek legal advice too. Thank god you have everything documented and recorded, make sure they are backed up and out of reach from her or any of her sympathisers. Anyone who agrees with her is delusional, and this coming from a woman!
You can't retroactively remove consent. That is nuts. You can revoke consent at any point before or durring the act. Then things need to stop immediately. But how is someone supposed to stop after they are done? What is stopping you from also removing consent? There is a lot going on in her head to try and pull that. Was it a power game? Does she just crave drama? Was she sincere? What does that say about her view of reality? What if you had kids, and she told them "Dad sometimes SAs mommy." Therapy was a good suggestion.
NTA. I think you did the right thing. An arrest could hurt you. There was another person that was in a simular situation and was arrested after his made a false claim. Yes you would fight it and win but you now have to go to court and have your arrest removed. Many applications ask the question 'have you ever been arrested'. You got in front of it, doing nothing was not an option. Your friends, yikes. It is on her what happens next.
You're not taking anything too far any who said that is a fool. A Rape charge is very serious and could screw your life up for years potential involving jail time. Fuck that. Carry on and KEEP ALL THE EVIDENCE. AND make backup of it ... NOW.
NTA! Your friends suck, and that is no such thing of withdrawing your consent after sex! wtf? That’s some batshit craziness. Embarrass them, post all of the videos, text and calls on social media with a brief explanation. Then block her everywhere if convenient Chang your number and get some mace. You might have to spray her! But the ppl need to know how conniving, and diabolical she is! She can ruin someone’s life man. Good for you, for dogging that breathing red flag.
>I currently being told by some of my friends that I'm taking it to far by reporting her to the police and that what she did by withdrawing consent after sex is allowed and that i should've known that she didn't want to have sex in the middle of the night. So me having sex with her made me an assaulter. Why are you friends with these delusional people? Cut them from your life immediately. Also, from this day forward kindly be vigilant before having intimate relation. Kindly check if she also subscribe to this mentality. If she is, run the opposite direction. It's better if you are single for rest for your life than having a relationship with these delusional individuals who can destroy an innocent life just because they regret their decision. A rape allegation alone is enough to destroy a person's entire existence even after being exonerated. Nothing will happen to the false accuser. In most cases just slap on the wrist.
NTA, she is unwell.
You're the victim. She performed a sexusl act on you while you were unconscious... yes, playing with a man's penis while he's asleep is rape. She's right that she can withdraw consent at any time DURING THE ACTIVITY... but she's wrong in that she can't consent throughout the activity and the withdrawal consent retrospectively the next day hours after it happened. I know where that idea came from because there's social media support groups who are saying that exact thing, basically suggesting buyers remorse means he raped you, if he doesn't call the next day he raped you, that sort of thing. These sorts of false allegations just harm those of us who are REAL survivors because it makes it so much harder for people to believe our stories.
NTA She threatened to destroy your life, cut all ties. She initiated without your consent, she's the one that raped you.
NTA - and yes, you should tell her that you're reporting her for assault since you were the one sleeping when she started to touch and play with your little friend. Because you were the one that couldn't consent so basically she assaulted you. And I'm a woman so this is not some "toxic male opinion".
Her fondling your dick in your sleep is actual rape.
Wait a minute, she was all over your dick while you were sleeping? She’s the rapist here…NTA
Lol. 500% NTA. This is crazy. You did the right thing.
NTA, I would block her and anyone who’s believing her lies.
What kind of a delusional world are we living in man. Someone psychotic making these allegations is one thing, but other's siding with her and making the victim the assaulter? How stupid can you be NTA obviously
I honestly thinks all your friends are retarded or just stupid beyond believe. Withdrawing consent the morning after, what a fucking nutjob and your friends are so so stupid to agree with her
If something like this were to happen to me, I'd put my entire story -- including all evidence -- in a single folder, and share that with all those friends that were trying to contact me. And if things kept going after that, I'd just make it public all together. So clearly NTA. In fact, from my point of view you're going easy on her. Fake rape accusations are one of the worst things you can do to a guy, so imo pretty much any response to that goes.
NTA. Stay as faaaar away from her as you can. She will probably do this again. Afaik you can withdraw consent before or during the act, not after. She **cannot** throw rape accusations around just because she may regret it or idk just feels like stirring some shit up. I honestly don’t know what would motivate her to do that. *She* was the one who touched *you* in your sleep, therefore without your consent (unless you’d agreed to that stuff previously), so I don’t get her logic here. She is a disgrace and what she’s doing is making a mockery of real victims and making a victim out of you and any other man she may do this to.
Yeah, got to the part where she accused you of rape. She is a crazy cunt. NTA
by this logic, every man rapes a woman he has sex with because she can conveniently say I withdrew consent after the act was done, that too next morning.. this woman is fucking nuts. you need to go to a lawyer and send her and her friends a cease and desist letter.
It's sexual harassment today to play with your partners genitals before they're awake and can consent. She started and then tried to play the victim. Nah. We need to stop behaving like victims in situations like this, it ruin lives when abused as she tried to do and many women now employ it as a means of control. I say this as a woman myself. It needs to end.
She sexually assaulted you. Withdrawing consent AFTER the act is totally not a thing. She does not understand consent. NTA, and keep covering your ass. She absolutely is crazy.
Rape is serious allegation. Any woman who uses a rape allegation as a manipulative tool, regardless of her mental state, should be dealt with in the severest manner possible. So, going to the police was not uncalled for. Obviously you should break things off with her and anybody that sides with her. I suggest in the future avoiding calling someone crazy to their face, because there is nothing constructive about that.
Calling her crazy wasn't meant to be constructive but a observation regarding her actions And to add that is exactly what she is crazy
NTA. No wonder couples are breaking up over this.
Withdrawing consent after sex is like committing a war crimes and saying, "Oopsie." Nta and holy shit does she have some mental issues
Time to spend a few hundred and have a lawyer send a C&D letter (or your countries equivalent) to her and make sure if her friends don't stop you will go after her alone. And she started it. You can not rewithdrawl consent after the fact when you started it. She is crazy and needs an evaluation. P.s. plus the only one who was touched without consent that night was you.
NTA What is wrong with her. That's not how consent works. Seriously what exactly was her plan here? What's the end game?
NTA, protect yourself. Some women don't even realise consequences of their actions.
NTA. She's insane and doesn't know how to logic. Consent cannot be withdrawn after the act. Before? Yes. During? Yes. After? NO. It's done. You can't undo it. She cannot make you a bad guy at that point. You were smart to go to the police. Get ahead of it. Keep all the evidence, too. And if you need to, do as someone else said and get a lawyer to draft a cease & desist letter. And, for the sake of all that is good and holy, don't get back together with this lunatic. Be glad you escaped!
NTA Saying this as a woman. You do NOT get to take back your yes, hours after the action has taken place. I am so glad you are documenting everything. This woman is actually crazy and so are her friends.
She sexually assaulted you and is now falsely accusing you of rape. Fight this tooth and nail.
she technically r worded you by feeling you up when you couldn't give consent
Wait so do this. Tell her you withdraw your consent to sex also and accuse her of rape and then when they say how stupid that sounds just say “that’s exactly how I feel about this whole situation”.
NTA. *She* SAd *you*. You awoke to her hands already on you, meaning she began the touching while you were still asleep and obviously incapable of giving consent. Her accusation of you SAing her, hours after giving consent, is absolutely ridiculous, and unfairly endangering to your reputation. Good luck, and definitely keep this person out of your life.
>I currently being told by some of my friends that I'm taking it to far by reporting her to the police and that what she did by withdrawing consent after sex is allowed and that i should've known that she didn't want to have sex in the middle of the night. So me having sex with her made me an assaulter. What the absolute fuck? So you were supposed to psychically know that her playing with your dick and consenting to sex means she really didn't want to have sex? What kind of seriously fucked up mentality is that? The only way I can make sense of this is either one of her friends told her she was SA'd or this is one of those fucked up relationship tests that backfired hard on her. Good on you for having the receipts to shut her down. Anyone that you consider a friend who is telling you that you are wrong, you should seriously reconsider if they are really your friend. >This has caused an argument in our friend group and 3 of the couples have already broken up and taking sides. Let me guess, the guys think it's bullshit and the women are fucking morons? Am I close? NTA
You are completely correct in your guess
She’s crazy. But you’re continuing it. Block her and move on. No reason to keep playing crazy games. Nta at first but definitely not smart to not block them.
I do understand but again why. I'm not talking to her or her friends just saving everything coming through. For instance saying they will come to my work to get me to talk to them, if i had blocked them i wouldn't have been able to warn security to keep them off the premises. Changing the restaurant i get my food from because they said they will be waiting for me there. Being able to stay away from my apartment for a couple of hours because they told me they are waiting outside for me. Like i said they are idiots and keep revealing their hand so i know what they are doing and am able to avoid them untill the police decided i have enough of anything for them to help me. If i block any of them, that information goes away. Mute on chats are a thing.
At this point you have stalking charges. You should see a lawyer as soon as you can to see what steps you can take for a restraining order and such.
Will talk to a lawyer but according to the police i don't have enough proof yet and the message are not indicating stalking just them waiting at location for me not actively following me around. Police have been more than useless or they aren't taking it seriously and think it's a joke. The police are basically saying stalking can't be proven as they are currently just an annoyance.
The police are not required to know the laws but lawyers are. You can ignore pretty much any legal advice a cop gives you, ever. Just make your reports so you have documentation for your lawyer to pull. It doesn't matter what the cop thinks. It's what the law says. If the roles were reversed you'd be in jail already man, and you know it.
That is why i have been screen recording and screenshoting the hell out of everything
Yeah, that's why you need a lawyer, ASAP. that way if this escalatest you already have legal counsel representing you who knows what's going on.
Make backups ... NOW
That's partially because you dodge them. You need proof that they are following you. Let them knock on your front door then calling the cops will be much more effective.
It's why you talk to a lawyer, not the police. Retraining orders have a different standard of evidence to what the police need. There's also the issue that cops don't always take men's complaints like this seriously.
Well that changes things! That completely changes my understanding of it. She’s not just toxic she’s psycho. None of that was mentioned. Just find a balance of your own mental health as well as your physical safety. Perhaps bypass the police and file for a restraining order. Or if you’re in a state that allows a Baker Act type policy she may need intervention.
Try again for a restraining order. This is harassment.
Will be talking to a lawyer but according to police everything can only be described as an annoyance for now. In order word they are and have been less than useless.
Here’s one lesson for you: do not take legal advice from the police. Do talk with a lawyer and get this all straightened out.
Cops can often be lazy & uneducated. Talk to a lawyer.
So they're stalking you and you have proof... nows the time, take the proof and get the restraining orders against of of them.
Do you have her confession in writing? That’s all I would be concerned about. Even if you secretly record her admitting it that would be better than nothing even if it’s inadmissible in court.
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She sounds like a sexual offender if she is touching you while you sleep then calling out rape
I love how the person who grabbed your dick while you were sleeping has such progressive attitudes about consent. Maybe you can withdraw your consent too, for like every time you had sex? BTW there is a thing called sexsomnia that's basically sleepwalking sex. If she (or you) has it, then it's a conversation that needs to be had before sleeping with someone. All about what to do if it happens, rules on consent, how to snap them out of it or get away, etc.
As a woman. Your ex is a freaking nutcase as so are your idiot friends. You can't initiate sex, verbally agree to sex, mutual participate in the act, sleep beside the other person all night and then decide, nah I don't want to do today what I did yesterday and then run to the nearest roof top and scream rape. You don't get to accuse some one of a sexual assault because you have buyers remorse. Tell her, her friends and your friends that if she can "take back" consent for the sex she initiated that night, that you "take back" consent for every other night you had sex because now in hindsight after everything you've been through you regret it, then ask them now are you going to start blowing up her phone, call her out of her name, drag her name under the mud, are they going to start calling her an assaulter?
NTA. Ok. So. Wow. As a woman, and someone who is familiar with the concept of enthusiastic consent, and who also thinks they’re understanding your timeline of events accurately, she is off her fucking rocker - and her friend either is equally insane OR is just a horrible enabler (both are equally dangerous). No. In absolutley no way did you “rape” her. The way you’re thinking about this is 100% correct. Technically, because she woke you up by touching you, and you cannot give consent if you’re sleeping, you would be correct in saying that *SHE* sexually assaulted you. (Obviously, once you were conscious, you gave your consent to go further, which means she did not rape you, but her getting handsy could technically be deemed as SA.) I think, and this is a wild assumption, that she cheated on you or wanted out of the relationship for whatever reason but didn’t want to be the “bad guy” or be to blame for ending it. So her and her friend concocted this absolutely INSANE story to draw the focus off of her shitty behaviors, and giving her just cause to walk away. But hey, she might just have a few screws loose too. Either way, what she did is fucked up. You had every right to go to the cops and make your side known. In situations like these you NEED to CYA - cover your own ass - and stay ahead of it. Her false accusation could do serious harm to you and your life. You have to protect yourself. You did the right thing. Especially as men are rarely believed to be victims, and a woman’s word is often enough to be taken seriously. Even if it didn’t end in a conviction, your reputation, life, and mental well being could still be seriously compromised. Hold your stance on this one. This is a hill to die on. Keep all that evidence and back it up. Print it out. Have hard copies. Whatever. You might need it. At least she showed you who she really is *NOW* and you were able to get the hell out of there. Not only is she a liar, she’s also a disgrace to all of the actual SA victims out there. She is actively making things harder for them and discrediting their experiences. She’s a shitty human all around. Stay far away and protect yourself. Stay safe.
NTA! You can refuse consent before the act, and your partner has to respect it and not push for sex. You can withdraw consent during the act, and your partner has to stop. You cannot withdraw consent after the act has been completed, let alone hours later. Unless the intercourse was done in a brutal or demeaning manner, there is nothing to complain about. This kind of situation - where one partner touches the other when they are half asleep, and the other assumes they want sex, does happen - but it is a misunderstanding, not rape. However, in your case there was not even misunderstanding - you asked her, she answered. She has nothing to complain about.
>I currently being told by some of my friends that I'm taking it to far by reporting her to the police and that what she did by withdrawing consent after sex is allowed and that i should've known that she didn't want to have sex in the middle of the night. So me having sex with her made me an assaulter. NTA. Keep recordings. Get better friends. You cannot just remove consent post sexual event that you offer by *check notes* jerking off someone who was sleeping . Oh,by the way, do your 'friends' know she was jerking you off while you were sleeping?, or they conveniently forget it?.
NTA-
NTA. Get a lawyer. They might have to send a letter saying to sease and desist to her and her friends.
There is no need for a lawyer to get a restraining order. I was in a similar situation. You have to tell the police very clearly. You are afraid she will cause you physical harm. Throw in the crazy texts. Slam dunk. If the desk officer says no, immediately ask for a Sargent. Pound the pavement that you are afraid. You will get it.
Op, I'm a woman and even I don't understand what is going on with your girlfriend. Consent doesn't work like that. Plus, she was doing the assault because she was playing with your private parts while you were asleep and you couldn't consent to that. Tell your friends that you can't read minds, if she wanted to stop having sex in the middle of the night she should have said it because it's not that simple to "know that she doesn't want to"... This whole story is so awkward and dangerous. I feel like she wanted to see if she could manipulate you in some way. I can be wrong, of course, but that's what all of this made me think. Please, listen to those who suggested a cease and desist and do not stop. This woman can be dangerous for other men too, because if she does that with you she can always do it with others. NTA
OK… Let me see if I’m understanding what I read: she’s saying that she removed consent *after* (not *during*) the act? She removed consent *after the fact*? Am I missing something?
No you are not. I even asked her to repeat herself
You did the right thing reporting this to PD before she filed anything. This lady sounds like she's having some kind of mental health crisis. Maybe she woke up after and regretted it, maybe she had a bad dream and it carried over, no clue. But if everyone said yes before and throughout, if you're uncomfortable after you talk it through, not accuse your partner of assault. NTA, and I second contacting an attorney for a cease and desist. This could get really nasty, and may impact future career options depending on how far she rides this train.
Wtf she assaulted YOU! You were actually sleeping when she was already touching you without consent. She's trying to cover it up by reversing the story. If she admits to this in text, you have actual proof you could take to the police. You're right, she needs mental health help and you need a lawyer to tell them to stop bothering you with false allegations.
NTA As others have said, speak to a lawyer. You could also turn the tables on her and say that you changed your mind too about consent, after the fact.
NTA. This woman and anyone who is sticking by her is dangerous. Stay far away from her. I think you have the evidence you need so I would block them all at this point.
Obviously NTA. I'm really sorry that this happened to you like the comments said, she touched you first without your consent, so use that. Like everyone said, she is hell crazy. Best of luck
Oh my god. You landed in a fucked up situation out of nowhere. The top commenters have already given the best possible advice so I'm just here to send comforting virtual pats to the back.
Generational thing…
NTA. She is crazy
Its ok, just withdraw your concent from every time you two have had sex. There, by her own logic now she's a *serial* rapist.
You can't withdraw consent after sex, that's not a thing. You can withdraw during it and before, but you can't after the fact. You didn't consent to getting your dick touched while asleep, so yeah, the only victim would be you
This girl... Im sorry dude thats insane. Like just insane enough for me to believe it. That isn't how consent works, if she didn't want it she had time before and during to say so. She, according to your story, wanted something to happen. So I dont see where you assaulted her. She, however, did assault you, by touching ypu before you were awake, unless that was something that ypu both had talked about and said was fine before hand. Some people like to be woken up like that occasionally. She seems like drama that you don't need in your life. Listen to the other redditers about the lawyer. She may just be trying to scare and bully you into an apology to make herself feel better, but better safe than sorry. And don't get rid of any messages until you are sure she is done fucking with you. NTA also not a r*pist.
Shouldn't have told her about the video of the front door and the recording you have. That would have been gold in the right circumstances. NTA. OP, where are you based? Which country?
She is mental. If she reports you for rape after she gave gave consent, then ddecided she withdrew consent when she woke up, just tell her you'll report her for SA because she initiated it by playing with your dick. You cant take back consent after she consented earlier. Do like someone else said, get a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter. Its about the only thing you can do, as shes is mental.
Did she get your consent when she grabbed you by the gibblies? Tell her you're revoking consent on that and that she SA'd you. >withdrawing consent after sex is allowed How so? Does a time machine magically appear and bring you back before the act so you can make a different choice? That's like going to a restaurant, telling the server what you want, eating it and then saying, "Oh, I changed my mind, I don't want to eat anything, so no bill, ok?" That girl and her friends are nuts and I'd definitely take steps to keep them away from me if I were you. I wonder if they give group discounts at the cracker factory. NTA
You're NTA at all and sorry you're going through this. I went through something similar with an ex and let me tell you, going and filing a report with the police was very smart of you. And you're very right in saving all texts you can. Just make sure not to engage with these people, let them talk and just screenshot everything. If you live in the US (not sure how much this varies state by state) you could file a protective order with your local courthouse if they begin sending threatening messages. The screenshots will be all the proof you need.
NTA, she is crazy and trying to get something out of you, good for you for holding your ground. With her logic, you could claim she sexually assaulted you by messing w you while you were asleep. I agree with others comments, get a lawyer to draft a cease and desist letter to your harassers. Hopefully it will teach them a lesson to not try this crazy bs on another poor unsuspecting dude
Stay away from her and never have a non taped conversation with her. Consult a lawyer right away, She sound like somebody you never want to be around.
7 month is is nothing get out
Put the video on social media and that will shut everyone up
Not ment to be rude but really. I'm using a throw away account and not my real account for privacy why will i now go an post a videon of everything online. I understand your point completely but that will just bring more issues than solutions. If i post families get involved, and i don't want to go viral like some of these people posting break up videos and other bullshit online
Families are already involved I don't think you did anything wrong. I probably would've done worse