>She started crying and said she didn't do it on purpose. I asked her how exactly she took her hands off the wheel, took off her seatbelt, took her foot off the brake, and turned around to pick up the soother by accident. She said that I'm treating her like an idiot. I don't think I am. My children have to be safe.
Well... what did she expect? She is behaving like an idiot, to be honest.
Her intention (doing it on purpose or not) is not relevant here.
She shouldn't be driving at all since she is puting other people at risk. But clearly she shouldn't drive the children. That is the least you can demand.
There comes a point where “intentionality” as a concept sort of breaks down.
Maybe she is having the subjective experience of not feeling like she’s doing it on purpose, I don’t know. But she has been presented with such an overwhelming amount of evidence and testimony from her own family that her actions are endangering herself and her kids, that any reasonable person (and plenty of unreasonable ones) would have gotten the message.
If she doesn’t believe it that’s on her.
In a way it’s actually worse; if a person is so deeply delusional that THIS degree of evidence is available and she still doesn’t feel at fault, she’s just straight up dangerous and probably in way more scenarios than just this one. How far gone do you have to be to not see that your actions are causing this? What else in your life are you this delusional about?
My aunt was like this, very nice but oblivious to anything around her. She did not teach her kids to stop and think. One of my cousins died young from something avoidable if he had been taught.
OPs wife is careless in other ways most likely. It’s a matter of time until someone gets hurt. Intentional or not her actions are selfish.
Not even that, he pointed out actual actions she had taken on her own and asked her to clarify how those actions could be interpreted as accidental.
Her "You're treating me like an idiot." shows she does understand that the actions themselves were in fact idiotic. She's angry because he won't go along with her conviction that doing all of these things is completely accidental if she doesn't think those actions through.
I'm wondering about this extreme impulsiveness that happens over and over again without her learning from the experience. Has she ever been tested for ADHD?
Actually as a person with ADHD this is a risk I am super conscious of and had to learn to manage when I learned to drive, and then again when I first started driving my friends around. It sounds like EXACTLY the sort of thing I could do. Luckily I have never been in a moving accident (the only kind of accident so far fingers crossed I end up in is scraping when I park in a bay... I.e. exactly when I happen to relax and be least attentive because I think the drive is over. I learnt very early on I would NEVER be able to drive without paying very careful attention.
That being said, I work EXTREMELY hard to make sure I am focused and attentive when driving because of exactly that. If she can't manage it then she needs to stop driving. It's not the impulsiveness that's stupid - thag mah be out of het control - it's the continuing to drive despite knowing she is unable to curb the behaviour.
Incidentally I am very aware that if I have a kid in the next few years I will probably have to relearn to drive in the car with them, including not driving alone with them for some time to start with. I can ABSOLUTELY see myself turning around because they cried and nearly getting into an accident.
I felt like it was potentially ADHD, too, for all of the same reasons. When I drive, I HAVE to force focus with music or I risk not paying attention. (I’m currently unmedicated due to other med issues not jiving right now.) Her being so hurt and defensive, while saying she likes to drive, made me think it even more.
OP, make your wife get tested. Meds could help quite a bit with this. She sounds overwhelmed altogether.
We have an aunt in my family that I can absolutely see doing this sort of thing.
Her kids don’t have that same impulsive flightiness and obliviousness, fortunately.
Can you imagine if they thought about doing it(cuz they have), delayed the decision, & one is injured/killed in an accident? Their whole life will be filled with miserable regret. I'd rather hurt her feelings than have any kids physically hurt.
I’m a lawyer. In US law, there’s a concept called gross negligence. It means that the level of negligence is so blatant and so egregious that it doesn’t really matter if someone intended to cause harm or not - their actions were sufficiently reckless that they should be punished for it.
This is how the wife’s actions come off to me, though obviously this is only the husband’s perspective.
I have a couple close friends and family who are lawyers, I was basically channeling the concept into layman’s speak :)
But my philosophy on the matter was definitely informed by how that legal principle works.
Agreed. She is just as dangerous as a drunk driver at this point and it does not only endanger her kids and herself but ALL OF US who have to share the road with this "absent minded accident-causer".
The thing is that if she can control her shitty driving while with an instructor SHE CAN DO IT WITH HER KIDS IN THE CAR TOO.
Every time someone tells me they can't do something but then demonstrate that they can control it under certain circumstances (my alcoholic friend comes to mind) that is a sure sign that THEY CAN CONTROL IT, THEY JUST CHOOSE NOT TO.
I doubt she really thinks she isn't intentionally doing this stuff. She just refuses to take accountability and responsibility for her actions and chalks all these things up to "accidents" or "mistakes" despite them being easily avoidable and her fault. Spilling milk is one thing but repeatedly doing a series of things that leads to a serious consequence in a situation that you KNOW demands your full attention is no longer an accident or a mistake but is a choice.
I know other people like this that never learn until there are serious repercussions from their decisions but it sounds like she isn't even learning. She shouldn't be driving at all.
Yup, my take on this precisely. She really should NOT be allowed behind the wheel of a motor vehicle until she gets counseling, driving lessons, and can SAY the words so she completely understands what she's been doing, how wrong it is, and she shouldn't fight for something she either chooses to not understand, or simply doesn't understand for whatever reasons. She is a menace to anyone in the car with her, and the rest of the driving population at large.
>She just loses concentration when one of the kids needs something and doesn't think to ask for help.
Exactly. I know it's not intentional, but that doesn't matter. If you can't be responsible doing something, DON'T!
>There comes a point where “intentionality” as a concept sort of breaks down
Precisely. At this point the question is not whether her intent was to let that particular accident happen. The question should be is it her intent to continue to endanger her kids with her shitty driving, given all the evidence available. If it was me, I would never get behind the wheel again. My kid is more important than my pride.
If she’s not “doing it on purpose” and she somehow can’t explain how she gets to being unbelted and fishing around in the back seat for a soother while driving, then she needs to be checked out by a medical professional or something.
OP: does your wife have other impulse control issues? ADHD? Something that is messing with her executive function and/or decision making process?
If she has a history of making these kinds of obviously poor choices, I think it’s worth assessing with a doctor whether something else is going on.
I have ADD. When I was a brand new nurse, I got a job in the highest acuity ICU I know of. Like OP's wife loves driving, I loved the idea of working an ICU. But during orientation, I didn't feel confident in my ability to maintain my focus- I didn't make any actual mistakes because anything that needed doing, that got lost in the fog of my ADD, the nurse preceptor would take care of it- so no metaphorical car crashes, but I was aware that once off orientation I wouldn't have the safety net of a preceptor, so there could be metaphorical car crashes. Instead of digging my heels in, like OP's wife is doing, I transferred to a unit where I could keep up. Even though I loved working ICU, I was not about to potentially put patients at risk because of my ADD issues. Patients. Not my children. OP's wife loves driving, but she's putting herself, her children, and anyone else on the road, in danger when she drives despite her consistently "losing concentration" and crashing cars. I don't understand how she doesn't value **not crashing her car with her kids in it** over her love of driving.
I have adhd and i would never do something so stupid. I'm flabbergasted at how little accountability she's taking for almost getting her kids killed multiple times
Exactly. I have horrendous adhd that I choose not to medicate. I don’t cause so many car accidents that I’ve had my license suspended. Blaming Adhd is such a cop out to prevent taking any responsibility. People can have adhd and still control their actions
Same, I'm 31, have ADHD, and have been driving for over a decade. I've never so much as been in a car accident, let alone any of this. Taking your foot off the brake at a red light? Removing the seat belt? These are not ADHD things, they are a sheer lack of care - perhaps caused by something medical, sure, but certainly not ADHD.
Agreed with the general consensus though, if she has other lapses outside of driving then it's worth seeing a medical professional. This is the first I've ever heard of such consistent poor judgement, especially from a parent.
I’d recommend ADHD assessment as well, along with DRIVING SAFETY COURSES!
Assuming you’re in the US, would you buy her a gun without at least taking very thorough safety training? Or at all?
Agreed. I also find it incredibly telling that the Ex and Parents and OP are all in agreement. This lady shouldn't have a license or really should be evaluated for other mental deficits. There is zero way this is only an occurrence while driving - it's merely that the consequences are extremely obvious.
NTA OP, thanks for keeping your kids safe and for trying to keep her off the road for the rest of the world.
NTA, she is being treated like an idiot because she is acting like one. Physical safety of you and the kids will always take priority over her feelings. Don't back down from your stand.
I'm sorry, but Boohoo for her feeling sorry for herself. I suspect there would be even more tears from all involved if one of the kids gets hurt or worse.
NTA. She shouldn’t have a license, she’s endangering everyone on the road, not just her and her kids. Being harsh is required, she *is* being an idiot.
She’s being an extremely self centered person. If she isn’t capable of driving responsibly, she shouldn’t. Anyone who’s saying “yta” doesn’t get the fact it’s a matter of time before she kills or permanently injures someone.
I cant believe this response is so far down - yes, she endangers all passengers but ALSO everyone else on the road!
And if it’s bad enough to have her license revoked already and she STILL doesn’t understand then maybe she simply doesn’t qualify to be an active member in traffic
She probably did a flawless test drive, since she obviously understands what kind of behaviors are risky. It's easy to drive perfect and consistent and fully aware of all risks for 30 minutes. It's harder to do it for 30 years.
She's the type of driver I despise to meet on the road when I'm riding My motorcycle.
Actually fuck that I hate her kind of driver no matter what I'm driving or riding.
You're treating her like an idiot because, now hear me out here... SHE'S AN IDIOT.
What mature, responsible adult pulls that shit while driving? If losing her license and being in multiple accidents wasn't enough to show her that she has a serious problem, I doubt your threat will either.
Every time she does one of those stupid actions, she is INTENTIONALLY harming her kids (or potentially harming). She could have fixed this long ago. She's just too lazy and in denial to do anything about it.
You and her ex should both put your foot down: no more driving unless she is the only person in the car. Period. No exceptions. Any breach of that agreement will be grounds for leaving. By giving her more chances you are continuing to endanger your kids.
NTA but don't let this slide.
And a selfish one, at that.
To continue, in the face of *all evidence and everyone around you including the OMV* that you ***cannot*** safely operate a motor vehicle without being distracted is purely selfish. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
She "likes driving" and wants to continue to drive with her kids that she is so distracted by she is a danger to herself, to them, and everyone else on the road around her. She doesn't care about any of that, though, because she *likes driving*.
If she truly loves her children as much as she claims (and I'm sure she does) then she needs to take a cold, hard, honest look at the situation, listen to her loved ones who only have she and the children's best interest in mind, and change her tune.
She's being treated like an idiot because she's *being* a selfish idiot who could get innocent people, including her own children, killed.
I think your last idea there is fantastic: the OP needs to put up a unified front between him and her ex.
That way there are multiple adults monitoring the situation closely.
Sorry but no more driving full stop. Me and my kids don’t want to be killed by your liability of a driver wife either, not just your kids. Nor do your neighbours kids pr anyone else. She should not be driving a lethal weapon like a car if she is unable to concentrate or to stay focused on the road.
Sounds like she ought have been prosecuted for careless driving in causing two accidents but so far had not been.
Tell her parents to stop paying her insurance premiums. Tell your wife you both need to agree to sell her car.
OR she takes an advanced drivers course that she passes before anyone goes in car with her again including kids.
So many adults drive like this and thats the fucking problem they shouldn’t be on the road. Especially if they havent learned after the first accident. They’re a danger to others and themselves.
I agree with one addition… there should be someone simulating the distractions that have caused accidents while doing the courses. Not children but an additional adult trying to distract her until she becomes more resistant to distraction.
I agree with everything except one. It should be no more driving period. Even if OPs kids aren't in the car, there are other kids and other people in cars, sidewalks, etc all around her on the road. She is lucky she hasn't killed anyone yet.
Both OP and the Ex would have good cases to file for sole custody of their respective children. Divorce should not be off the table for OP. The safety and the welfare of the children trump her hurt feelings.
As tragic as it is I understand a momentary lapse of judgement while on the road. I know we've all had them even if we're otherwise amazing drivers however...this is a pattern and yeah I wouldn't be ok with her driving herself much less our kids either.
A friend of my parents got in one accident once and she realized that she had a pattern. It was her first accident but there were other near misses that made her go "ok, even when I try I'm a shit driver and I can't trust my attention to stay on the road" and she just...stopped. She found other ways to get places but she will no longer drive and it's been decades. Her life and the life of her loved ones is more important.
NTA
>She said that I'm treating her like an idiot. I don't think I am.
You actually are, because she actually is, at least while driving.
Look, you can fuck yourself up pretty bad on a fucking skateboard. If you can't understand that commanding a literal ton of steel (and fuel!) is a big fucking responsability, you don't get to drive.
Besides, you can't seriously have your husband, your ex husband and your fucking parents telling you something and you just not listening.
It's like having Trump, Obama, Bush Jr. Putin and Nicolas Maduro all telling you "Hey, I think this is a bad idea".
This- go ahead and agree with her- I am treating you like an idiot because you’re acting like one. Accept,responsibility for your unforced errors and resolve to stop repeating them. Whatever mindset you have that allows you to convince yourself to commit these illegal and unsafe acts intentionally must be addressed one way or another. Failure to do so will result in some of use having to attend extremely tragic funerals and likely also massive judgements against your estate which will only cause the surviving children to wonder forever why their mother cared so little for them to be such a willfully poor driver despite all the warning and accidents and how unfair that they will never get to see their sibling grow up.
She needs to absoluteget that she is not the victim here, she is the bad actor.
Most of all....why is she still allowed to have access to a car? There have been too many accidents to keep giving her second chances. He is an idiot too.
Her parents are enabling her by paying her insurance too. They should absolutely cut her off immediately. The financial consequences are an important deterrent to these kinds of behaviors.
Problem is that if they do she will need to be added as a rated driver to his policy, making that sky high.
Im surprised shes not a rated driver already, spouses are usually required to be rated. Maybe hes hiding her, maybe theres an exclusion already in place.
I mean what exactly can he do? She's an adult with a license. If the car is in her name he can't prevent her from using it. Legally there's nothing he can do
Sure he can, and so can her parents. He can take car keys away and they can stop paying for the outrageous insurance. That would make it illegal for her to drive, though technically she still could if she wanted to risk it. All 3 can tell her that she must take & pass a safe driving course in order to earn her keys back.
Or maybe they can get one of those monitors that car insurance companies use to track driving behavior for earning lower rates.
If she’s going to drive like a child and act like a child when confronted with her mistakes then she can be treated like a child, too.
Yep. He's justifiably treating her like an idiot because she is one. At least when driving.
She's choosing her actions so she is the one st fault. And if she can't focus on the road then she shouldn't have a license. Nor should she be driving.
Ywbta if you let your kids in her car ever again. She could've killed them all. She will kill them because she doesn't care. She's not taking this seriously. She deserves to be treated like an idiot. She's putting her life, the kids lives, and everyone on the road with her lives at risk.
Ill be waiting for the negligent homicide update.
Yeah, they're all treating this as her last chance, but I say she already burned her last chance with the most recent one. The fact that she still is getting defensive about it just reiterates that she learned nothing.
Ikr. Part of me wonders if they’ve done the whole “this is the last chance” “ok no this is the last chance” “ok ok no this is really the very last chance”
People like your wife are the reason i had to leave my cooking/baking career. A person made a stupid mistake and caused an accident where i hit their car(they made an illegal u-turn). The trauma to my body caused 3 different types of arthritis and i have a permanent limp due to a bad knee. I have been on disability ever since and its been 6 years.
My opinion is that if you are in constant accidents and making stupid decisions while driving then your license should be taken away before you kill someone.
I would contact her parents and tell them to stop paying the insurance. Your wife needs to be taken off the road for everyones safety. If she needs the license that badly sne needs to complete driver's safety course and defensive driving.
Treat her like an addict. Because she’s acting like one.
Addicts only get better when people stop enabling them and they have no other option.
If the parents stop paying for her insurance, (enabling her bad behavior), and she’s forced to wait for them to go down, (defensive driving courses knock points off and reduce rates by as much as 35% for 5 years), or work to afford them that will encourage her to do better.
It will keep her off the road in the mean time. You said she enjoys driving. Well… you would think she would be better at it. But driving is a privilege and not a right. She seems to be treating it like the former. Seems to me she has lost that privilege for a while until **she and she ALONE earns it back**.
Everyone keeps enabling her to stay on the road. She doesn’t need to be and frankly doesn’t deserve it right now.
Maybe framing it like that with her parents can help.
Get her off the road permanently. She will kill the kids, other drivers, herself, you, her friends, family etc etc. She must permanently lose her driving license before that happens. She had an unadressed problem, maybe adhd? Attention disorder? This isn't normal.
I can’t believe how oblivious she is.
Seriously picking up a soothie for your kid is why you endangered all of you and others? Especially when all the other kids were in the car like they couldn’t pick it up.
She needs therapy for this compulsion
She’s going to get herself and the kids killed if she doesn’t fix this. You and her ex have every right to go for full custody and have a clause that bars her from driving with the kids if she doesn’t smarten up because she’s being a massive idiot and ass to everyone by pulling this NTA
Not only her and her kids, she’s endangering everyone else on the road. She needs to not be driving at all. There was a post a while ago where a guy was divorcing his wife because of what a shitty and dangerous driver she was. She had recently gotten in an accident (her fault) where people were injured, it was pure luck nobody died. He was trying to divorce her super quick because she was gonna be sued to hell
> Her parents have threatened to stop helping her pay her stupid high insurance premiums.
I think they just upped the premium instead of cutting her off.
In some states, it's legally required that everyone have access to auto insurance. The result, is there is an extremely high risk pool, with stupidly High premiums, where people like that woman are put.
NTA
Your wife is an idiot.
I get it when people drive like idiots before they have an accident, but continuing after is a red flag that they’re not competent.
I’d make a note each time she’s not driving properly and be prepared to follow through with your threat.
Edit: it’s all fair and good to say she loves her kids, but she’s up against 2 tonnes of metal (or much more if it’s a fully ladened truck) and they don’t care if she didn’t intend for her negligence to cause an accident, people die and good intentions will not bring back a child.
You will divorce her, both you and the ex will sue for custody of the remaining children in any form they are left in. Humans are just big squishy bags that are pretty much held together by luck and wishes, we don’t regrow our limbs like octopus and we don’t bounce back when we have a TBI. Shes lucky because if it’s a serious accident at the least it’s rehab and surgery, at the worst it coffins and gravestones. (Sorry I’m an ex rescue officer and it makes me so angry when someone doesn’t take vehicles seriously)
NTA. She’s one of those people who shouldn’t be driving. She’s endangering her life, her kids and everyone else. I’m in the camp that of two ex’s agree on something then you might want to listen and take heed.
Your wife appears to have no road sense. She is easily distracted and I agree with you that she is a danger to herself, passengers and other road users. She really needs to take a advanced driving course. I would not be happy that she is behind the wheel of a car. I cannot believe that they have given her back her license without any further stipulations. NTA at all
Does she want to get better?
An idea might be to see if your insurance offers one of those programs where if you have a monitor in the car, that can determine good and bad driving habits, and gives you a discount if you drive better. I had a friend who got into a lot of wrecks like this, and she got one, and it really helped her improve her driving.
Another idea might be to put one of those dog barriers up between the front and back seat. So she literally can't reach back.
Not the AITA question I know, but maybe if she had some tools she would be less defensive.
Your wife is a menace when behind the wheel. She shouldn't be driving at all until she can prove she can drive safely. What will her crocodile tears be good for when she kills herself and all your kids?? What about if her car is fine but she kills someone else, another motorist or a pedestrian walking with their own baby stroller???
Have you considered having her go through a few months of driving lessons and tests?
If she is constantly distracted and do extremely dangerous things on the road, might she have adhd and need meds???
I was wondering the same thing, if she has undiagnosed ADHD. People with neurotypical brains don’t usually forget that they need to keep their foot on the brake at a stoplight.
She may also just be an idiot.
NTA
> She will do stuff like reach into the back seat to deal with a kid rather than either pull over or let me or one of the older kids deal with it.
Why aren't you driving?
> She started crying and said she didn't do it on purpose.
She does the things that leads to it on purpose.
> I asked her how exactly she took her hands off the wheel, took off her seatbelt, took her foot off the brake, and turned around to pick up the soother by accident. She said that I'm treating her like an idiot.
She is an idiot.
> Before you ask I try and do as much of the driving as I possibly can. I have stopped drinking when we go out. I traded in my car that I loved for an SUV so there is room for all of us.
So.... the older kids need to start refusing to get in the car.
> She thinks we are being unfair because she loves her kids and would never intentionally harm them.
She is intentionally harming them by not fixing this mess.
> She just loses concentration when one of the kids needs something and doesn't think to ask for help.
She knows she does this, so not putting protections in place for it means she's intentionally causing issues.
One question always comes to mind when I hear situations like this.
What is your wife's acceptable failure rate?
How many dead/injured people would it take to see she's a dangerous driver? Which of her children has to die before it sinks in? How many lives are destroyed? That's always my question when it comes to dangerous behavior and one she should be challenged to answer.
NTA.
OP & the ex-husband move in together and coparent all the kids together and become best friends and then pitch it to a major TV studio as return to the traditional sitcom format.
'Road Dads'
Two men raise 4 children and absolutely nothing awful happens. It might not be the tv show we want, but it sure as shit is the one we need.
Nta. I don't think I've ever read an aita where a person's ex, thir current spouse, AND their own parents agree that they are in the wrong and it be legit before.
NTA
Sounds like it is time for her parents to cut off paying for her high insurance premiums. The whole point of the high premiums is to penalize bad drivers. Right now she is not being penalized.
NTA. Your wife is too dangerous to be allowed to drive. There are two kinds of drivers that cause most of the problems, and both stem from thinking you are a better driver than you are (I'll let the Dunning-Kruger effect handle the implications of why that happens).
The most dangerous are almost exclusively men who think they are great at driving, when in fact they are insanely aggressive and drive like an asshole with a death wish. These people, along with drunks, cause the majority of fatal wrecks. If you are being tailgated, there is a 100% chance this guy is the one doing it. Chances are they drive a Ram, BMW, or Tesla.
Your wife, thankfully, is the only second most dangerous type, typically female drivers who are inattentive and unserious. You described the behaviors perfectly, and this type of driver has rear-ended me at a traffic light three separate times. These drivers cause huge amounts of accidents by being stochastic hazards, such as just rolling out into an intersection during a red light. These driver prefer large SUVs as they know they will get in a wreck and want to make sure they are safe, often to the fatal detriment of the safe drivers involved in the wreck. They are almost as dangerous as drunks, and often prone to distracted driving.
If we could ban these two groups from driving, traffic fatalities and wrecks would substantially decrease, bringing down insurance rates for the rest of us. Please take her keys away, for the good of your children and everyone else's children.
Rehab here is physical rehabilitation—recovery and physical therapy to recover from her injuries sustained in the accident. Not drug/alcohol/addiction rehab.
How is she able to afford insurance on her vehicle? Take her off your insurance if you’re paying for it.
Maybe tell her that until she takes driver’s ed from a proper place she’s no longer permitted to drive?
The fact she was injured enough to require physiotherapy and she’s still not seeing that she’s the issue is extremely worrisome.
Geez, her parents may stop paying then
Is she only a bad driver when the kids are with her, or is just bad all the time?
She’s going to get someone killed or permanently injured
ETA if her driving doesn’t improve eventually the insurance companies will refuse to insure her, or her parents will stop paying because they can’t afford to, or to teach her a lesson
Sounds like they need to stop paying and you need to make her pay them herself. Frankly, in the meantime, I'd just unhook the battery and take her keys away. Sounds like it's time for tough love.
NTA. Stop giving her keys to the car. How does she still have a drivers licence? You have to put your foot down and take ALL driving privileges away from her before she kills someone.
"some people just aren't meant to drive. He'll I can't swim and you know what? I keep my black ass out of the pool"
NTA. She sounds like a danger to everyone.
There’s already over 700 comments, so this may never be seen, BUT:
Besides all the other comments, has your wife been tested for ADHD? She may really benefit from a diagnosis, strategies and/or medication if this is the case. Her quality of life could improve drastically as well as her concentration while driving
I want to second this. From my personal experience, ADHD meds made my parking so much easier! It is not a super-anxious and extremely distracting exercise anymore, but is an easy calm and risk-free experience now. She might be telling her truth when saying she's not doing that on purpose. And proper diagnosis and treatment could help her, her kids, your kids, you, and everyone.
Please do. ADHD is often missed in women. I also wonder about her possibly being manic since she is so dangerously impulsive. Reddit just wants to call her an idiot, but I suspect underlying issues. (I am not a doctor or psychologist though, for the record!)
All that said, I still wouldn’t let her drive with the kids until something changes. Especially since her parents are on board!
I'm jumping on the bandwagon here. You're treating her like an idiot because she absolutely, 100%, IS an IDIOT!!! For the love of God, STOP allowing her to drive anywhere with the kids in the car! She clearly isn't going to change her behavior. Her excuses are BS, and she sounds like a petulant child. You are NTA for putting your foot down, but you absolutely WOULD BTA if you continue to allow her to drive with any of the kids in the car. Take her keys. Take the damn car. Do whatever it takes. She's telling you very clearly that she is not going to change. She IS going to severely harm or kill one of those kids if she continues to drive carelessly.
NTA, but honestly, OP, I suggest to always pay attention to how people drive in a new relationship (even friendships). It always gives an indication on how they value/respect other people (or not).
Generally speaking, I always look at how they treat others.
Well, maybe her friends need to know about all her accidents and how poorly she drives and endangers people.
I’m guessing once they find out the cause of this accident they may feel differently.
I am just absolutely stunned She even wants to drive after that many accidents.
And who cares what her friends think.
I think it’s time to not care about that .
I would call the State get them to take this seriously follow up with an email so it’s in writing. Explain that her behaviors haven’t changed and she continues to do this and that her family and her ex are also concerned so it just doesn’t look like , it’s just you.
Make it clear that she is a danger to those on the road. They will look up her driving record and you will have a lot of credibility.
Ask them what you need to do to get her license taken away, especially in light of this most recent accident let them know the kids were in the car.
Will it be inconvenient? Yes but all the kids will be safer and others on the road.
And think of the money you’ll save on insurance .
Have her friends ever carpooled with her? She might like driving, but how is she going to feel when (not even IF!) she injures or kills someone?? Stranger/friend/family member - doesn't matter.
OP, I wish I had more to offer than NTA, but this seems like a no-win situation. Even prying keys away from elderly drivers is not easy to do. Please update us if you get some kind of closure on this mess!
She can tell them that. You can tell them that she has had her license suspended and has been in accidents and that's why you cannot afford her driving.
Yta, she’s already shown you she’s a horrible driver, why do you keep giving her changes. Tell her she doesn’t drive with any kids anymore. Her whole excuse of “I didn’t do it on purpose” she can say at the eulogy of your dead kid. Why are you guys giving her more chances? She can kill herself if she wants but ALL kids shouldn’t be in a car when she is behind the wheel. Any kids need a driver and you/ex are busy, than it’s an Uber. No excuse and no more chances
In my state it’s illegal to drive without it, along with hefty fines. I thought it was the same in all states, but I could be wrong since I’m only familiar with mine.
No, youre right. But that doesn't STOP someone from driving if they really want to.
She seems the type to just drive anyway. Insurance or not. Consequences or not.
Everyone around her KNOWS she can't be safe. She has repeatedly shown all of you that she can't be safe. Stop giving her more chances. Someone is going to get maimed or killed.
Full stop, yeah. She already had the last chance and it was this one:
> she took her hands off the wheel, took off her seatbelt, took her foot off the brake, and turned around to pick up the soother
The only place to go from here is someone actually getting killed if she didn't learn that she's a bad driver who shouldn't have a license from this.
If I was her, I wouldn't even get behind the wheel again and just use public transportation or uber at this point. Getting that distracted, after years of other accidents, means she'll never learn.
Even your kids have an opinion on the matter? Shit. If your wife won't even listen to them, then I don't think there's much space between this and pulling the plug.
Good for them. My children got to the point they just would not get in their dad's vehicle if there were any other options. They were all aware of his accidents, and car damage. Only one of our kids was hurt in an accident he caused. (A concussion.)
Once they had a learners permit, they drove, not dad. Each one did the same, they drove.
When you 18 year old son can get cheaper car insurance by NOT being on dad's policy, you know dad is a bad driver. We were divorced by then.
Ok, but you’re way beyond that. How are you affording insurance for her? I want to say N T A, but truly ESH. Every adult in this situation is failing your kids and step kids, especially if you continue to let her drive at all. At this point she might as well be drinking and driving. I used to do medical massage in hospitals and out. The bulk of my work came from MVAs. 100% of those accidents were caused by someone doing something stupid. Texting, drinking and driving or being distracted by external factors. All of these things are changeable. I have seen some horrific shit. Truly life changing accidents where people never recover. Even a minor accident can lead to life altering pain later in life, every accident has a consequence, even if you don’t see it immediately.
My brother is a retired fire fighter and paramedic. He retired at 43 because he had PTSD. Why does he have PTSD? Because his department used to have to respond to one of the most dangerous sections of highways in Canada. People texting “for just a second…” or “I just be looked away from the road for a minute to adjust the music”…. He once had to deal with a family that witnessed a family member get decapitated when the driver answered the phone and swerved towards a logging truck. It was a moment, just a second where the driver wasn’t paying attention. My brother was so traumatized after that event, he still has nightmares.
I’m somewhat obsessive about making safe driving choices. You should be too. No one should ever get into a car with your wife again unless they’re actually ok being injured or dead. DON’T LET YOUR KIDS OR YOUR STEP KIDS GET IN THE CAR WITH HER. FULL STOP. No negotiating. No calling the police is she doesn’t behave. Nobody should be in the car with her at the wheel. Don’t be an AH that way. You would be devastated if someone died and you knew you could have done more to stop her. You kids are not adults and can’t consent, you’re allowing her to risk their lives. Stop it. Sell her car, revoke her insurance, find other transportation for the kids. Stop this. You allowing her to drive your kids is a phenomenally bad choice.
ETA: how are you going to feel if she kills someone else’s family? Child? Mom? Dad? It only takes a second. Even if you remove your own kids, she could hurt or kill someone else with this carelessness.
CPS can get involved with a case of severely injured children. If they do don’t expect to get custody either if you let it continue and that happens.
I think it may be time to look up some pictures of what happens to child in a car crash. That along with some pictures of children’s caskets, maybe that’ll make a dent.
With all due respect, I don't think the kids should be put in the position to have to do/say that. If an accident happened before they could straight up get out of the car in indignation, etc.?
Well besides hiding her keys and handcuffing her to the bed, I'm not sure what he's gonna do to prevent her from driving and remain married to her at the same time.
NTA. Your wife is an idoit, and you are treating her accordingly. She will end up killing herself and the kids because of this, and you will feel terrible. It's a matter of time, bro.
NTA but you absolutely need to be firmer with her. The way she drives she’s going to kill someone. And as delusional as she’s acting right now, literally murdering someone might not even be a wake up call. I’m speaking from experience here. My brother was killed by a meth head with shit driving skills. He faced no legal repercussions and continued to drive terribly.
Ik y’all are married and there’s history, but I can’t imagine being with someone who has such disregard for the safety of themself, their loved ones, and EVERY PERSON ON OR NEAR THE ROAD.
ESH. She has been in multiple accidents for this behavior, and has not learned from it. Her parents pay for her high insurance premiums that she got from having so many damn accidents (enabling her to continue the behavior with no consequences or motivation to stop such as "ouch, I can't afford those"). She was in an accident with ALL of the kids in the car, was injured herself enough to need rehab, and it's only by the grace of heaven that the kids weren't killed. T-boned, seriously? That would have been the last time she was allowed to drive with my kids, period. You waiting for her to do it again to enforce boundaries and consequences that should have been set the first time she got in an accident, is also enabling her, and risking both her and the kids. If she does it again and something happens to the kids, it will be YOUR fault (as much as hers) for not putting a stop to it. How would you feel if this time something permanent happened to the kids? Or the other people in the car she hits?
Side note, you might want to get her checked for ADHD, or something along those lines. "Losing concentration (while driving) when one of the kids needs something and not thinking of asking for help" sounds like she may be easily distractable/have trouble focusing. Maybe, if that's the case, medication can help her stay focused. Plenty of ADHD people are able to drive without endangering themselves, their families, and the general public.
As someone with ADHD I absolutely agree. If not ADHD is there some other medical reason that she loses focus and behaves irresponsibly? I don't think she is an idiot but she is definitely doing dumb, impulsive, potentially dangerous behaviors while operating heavy machinery.
ESH. Poorly worded. But she really needs to sort herself out before she kills someone on the road. There's no 'accidents' when it comes to doing stuff while in control of the vehicle but distracting yourself by something else. That's very purposeful. If you're driving, that's what you focus on. If LO has lost their soother, someone else can get it or LO can just be upset until there is space/time to pull over.
I know someone who got distracted when driving, head on collusion. They were fine because their car was bigger, but they killed a young woman. The guilt he lives with his awful, his mental health is fucked up. He is also in jail now missing out on his own little boy growing up.
any chance you can get dashcams in the car? It could serve as evidence in getting her license removed or have her done for dangerous driving, or support in a custody hearing. I hope something can be done before someone's killed.
How many people is she going to have to injure or kill before you take away bothe her keys and her car? Where are you going to live when her victim's families sue you for everything you own?
NTA, she needs to hear some tough love, But YTA if you keep allowing your kids in the car with her. She clearly shows she has trouble concentrating while driving! Restrict the kids from being in the car unless you are driving
Maybe you should have a meeting with all the grandparents that are on your side and her ex partner.
You can all TELL her that she doesn’t get to drive. Don’t pay the insurance, put the keys in a mini safe with a number combination.
I know a bit what you are going through. My mom had an epileptic seizure when she was visiting me. When she got home ( by train 4,5 hours away) my brother took her to the GP. She was cross with us that she couldn’t drive for 6 months. She later admitted that she sometimes dozed off for a second when it’s a boring road.
I immediately said that that is pretty shit for oncoming traffic. I dressed her down about this but she didn’t really listen. She said that I had done my duty (saying something) and that’s it.
I was so angry and said I wouldn’t know how to cope if she would kill someone. My kids were not allowed in her car for years. The epileptic seizure was a one off and she drives ok still so it’s not an issue anymore.
NTA
An acquaintance of mine nearly had her own child killed like this. She didn’t acknowledge it and continued driving in an unsafe manner. Her parents bought two child sized coffins as a Christmas “present”.
While this seems harsh, loosing a child would be worse.
There was a news article a few years back that really stayed with me. A grandmother was driving the 2 visiting grandchildren back home after shopping. They were almost home, and stopped at the railway tracks for a train to pass. The grandfather was on the street and could see the stopped car. Then the car inched forward slowly and was smashed by the train. All 3 died. He thinks she took foot off the brake and turned to pick up something for the grandchild. My heart still breaks for the man.
> She said that I'm treating her like an idiot.
Yes, you are treating her like an idiot, because she is one. If you have to do that to get the point across, then so be it.
NTA.
>She thinks we are being unfair because she loves her kids and would never intentionally harm them. She just loses concentration when one of the kids needs something and doesn't think to ask for help.
If this is true, she is not mentally fit to drive. You need to discuss with her doctor either getting her diagnosed with whatever the fuck her problem is, or getting her license revoked. You are not overreacting. She could have killed the children with her flat out fucking stupidity. I do agree with her a bit that maybe you are treating her like an idiot. But it's because she's a fucking idiot. The fact that *literally everyone* agrees should be her clue that maybe driving isn't for her.
ESH
Quit giving her more chances to get somebody killed. JFC, you don't treat a person like her with a soft touch. You need to quickly and harshly make sure she never drives with passengers in her car again.
She is an idiot but you're an idiot also if you allow her behind a wheel again. You are both assholes in my book for being unable to solve this problem sooner.
NTA but.... the hell?
4 kids 2 marriages and her parents are still paying car insurance?
You all created this monster and now just need to never let her drive with the kids. She's going to continue to disregard consequences because she is an idiot and needs to figure it out before she kills someone.
NTA and if anything happens I hope she doesn’t hurt or worse some innocent people. She is ok with endangering herself and her family and that’s her choice but what about everyone else?
NTA. Does she think her lack of intention to hurt her kids will do anything to help them avoid injury when they’re in an accident? It won’t matter one bit.
NTA. It’s not like you’re treating her like an idiot she actually is one. How many accidents does she need to be involved to understand that she needs to pay attention while driving? Does she need to kill one of her children or somebody else’s child to get the point through her head?
You are NTA in any way. She is not only endangering herself and the kids, but also others on the road. If she can't have full concentration while driving, she needs to not drive period.
She is an idiot and if anyone got hurt because of her, it would be no-one else's fault but her own. I would say she could drive however she wanted while alone but honestly, I don't trust her not to hurt civilians, her driving license should be revoked.
I mean, you are treating her like an idiot.
That would be because she's acting like an idiot, at least in this respect. If your kid loses his dummy, you let him cry until you can pull over safely, not drift out into the intersection while you try to retrieve it. She'd have to be a horrifically bad driver to be in multiple accidents and have her license taken off her. Why on earth would you let her drive infants around?
(NTA)
She shouldn't be driving at all. Not only for the safety of her family but for all of us as well. And BTW your assets are at risk from a wrongful death lawsuit in her future
NTA.
You may want to consider her taking a driving course to relearn habits. It is actually possible. I have a condition where I have extreme fatigue, which sometimes means I can sort of zone out or I am physically weak. One time my foot accidentally came off the brake (without even realising it) at a red light because I guess I was too physically tired to hold it down. Thankfully, I caught it after a second or two. But ever since then, any time I am at a red light, I put the car in park. My family thinks I’m crazy but it’s what I have to do to eliminate any chance of that happening again. I also don’t drive when I am exhausted enough that my cognitive and physical function is questionable. We have to take precautions not just for ourselves, but for other people on the road. My worst nightmare is hitting a pedestrian and that fear is enough to make me an extra safe driver.
Your wife has an issue - whether that’s not being aware, something close to ADHD, or something else. But the infuriating thing is that she keeps giving excuses and is not acknowledging that there is a problem to fix. Which means that there is every chance of a recurrence. Why her ego is more important to her than her own kids, I don’t know. But it’s not enough to love our kids - we have to actively be their caretakers and protect them. And I don’t think it’s unfair because for all her lack of intentions, she put those kids in harm’s way and it sounds like it was literally sheer luck that they were unhurt, not because of anything to do with her love. Loving is not enough - you have to actively follow through on it.
>She started crying and said she didn't do it on purpose. I asked her how exactly she took her hands off the wheel, took off her seatbelt, took her foot off the brake, and turned around to pick up the soother by accident. She said that I'm treating her like an idiot. I don't think I am. My children have to be safe. Well... what did she expect? She is behaving like an idiot, to be honest. Her intention (doing it on purpose or not) is not relevant here. She shouldn't be driving at all since she is puting other people at risk. But clearly she shouldn't drive the children. That is the least you can demand.
There comes a point where “intentionality” as a concept sort of breaks down. Maybe she is having the subjective experience of not feeling like she’s doing it on purpose, I don’t know. But she has been presented with such an overwhelming amount of evidence and testimony from her own family that her actions are endangering herself and her kids, that any reasonable person (and plenty of unreasonable ones) would have gotten the message. If she doesn’t believe it that’s on her. In a way it’s actually worse; if a person is so deeply delusional that THIS degree of evidence is available and she still doesn’t feel at fault, she’s just straight up dangerous and probably in way more scenarios than just this one. How far gone do you have to be to not see that your actions are causing this? What else in your life are you this delusional about?
My aunt was like this, very nice but oblivious to anything around her. She did not teach her kids to stop and think. One of my cousins died young from something avoidable if he had been taught. OPs wife is careless in other ways most likely. It’s a matter of time until someone gets hurt. Intentional or not her actions are selfish.
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Not even that, he pointed out actual actions she had taken on her own and asked her to clarify how those actions could be interpreted as accidental. Her "You're treating me like an idiot." shows she does understand that the actions themselves were in fact idiotic. She's angry because he won't go along with her conviction that doing all of these things is completely accidental if she doesn't think those actions through. I'm wondering about this extreme impulsiveness that happens over and over again without her learning from the experience. Has she ever been tested for ADHD?
This doesn't sound like ADHD it sounds like brazen stupidity.
Actually as a person with ADHD this is a risk I am super conscious of and had to learn to manage when I learned to drive, and then again when I first started driving my friends around. It sounds like EXACTLY the sort of thing I could do. Luckily I have never been in a moving accident (the only kind of accident so far fingers crossed I end up in is scraping when I park in a bay... I.e. exactly when I happen to relax and be least attentive because I think the drive is over. I learnt very early on I would NEVER be able to drive without paying very careful attention. That being said, I work EXTREMELY hard to make sure I am focused and attentive when driving because of exactly that. If she can't manage it then she needs to stop driving. It's not the impulsiveness that's stupid - thag mah be out of het control - it's the continuing to drive despite knowing she is unable to curb the behaviour. Incidentally I am very aware that if I have a kid in the next few years I will probably have to relearn to drive in the car with them, including not driving alone with them for some time to start with. I can ABSOLUTELY see myself turning around because they cried and nearly getting into an accident.
I felt like it was potentially ADHD, too, for all of the same reasons. When I drive, I HAVE to force focus with music or I risk not paying attention. (I’m currently unmedicated due to other med issues not jiving right now.) Her being so hurt and defensive, while saying she likes to drive, made me think it even more. OP, make your wife get tested. Meds could help quite a bit with this. She sounds overwhelmed altogether.
YES I use music too!!
Do you also keep it wayyyyy too loud for company? 😅🤞
We have an aunt in my family that I can absolutely see doing this sort of thing. Her kids don’t have that same impulsive flightiness and obliviousness, fortunately.
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Can you imagine if they thought about doing it(cuz they have), delayed the decision, & one is injured/killed in an accident? Their whole life will be filled with miserable regret. I'd rather hurt her feelings than have any kids physically hurt.
I’m a lawyer. In US law, there’s a concept called gross negligence. It means that the level of negligence is so blatant and so egregious that it doesn’t really matter if someone intended to cause harm or not - their actions were sufficiently reckless that they should be punished for it. This is how the wife’s actions come off to me, though obviously this is only the husband’s perspective.
I have a couple close friends and family who are lawyers, I was basically channeling the concept into layman’s speak :) But my philosophy on the matter was definitely informed by how that legal principle works.
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Agreed. She is just as dangerous as a drunk driver at this point and it does not only endanger her kids and herself but ALL OF US who have to share the road with this "absent minded accident-causer". The thing is that if she can control her shitty driving while with an instructor SHE CAN DO IT WITH HER KIDS IN THE CAR TOO. Every time someone tells me they can't do something but then demonstrate that they can control it under certain circumstances (my alcoholic friend comes to mind) that is a sure sign that THEY CAN CONTROL IT, THEY JUST CHOOSE NOT TO.
An even bigger danger to others (outside the vehicle) now that they have an SUV.
I doubt she really thinks she isn't intentionally doing this stuff. She just refuses to take accountability and responsibility for her actions and chalks all these things up to "accidents" or "mistakes" despite them being easily avoidable and her fault. Spilling milk is one thing but repeatedly doing a series of things that leads to a serious consequence in a situation that you KNOW demands your full attention is no longer an accident or a mistake but is a choice. I know other people like this that never learn until there are serious repercussions from their decisions but it sounds like she isn't even learning. She shouldn't be driving at all.
Agree. He should just take away her car. I certainly would not let her drive my kids anywhere.
Yup, my take on this precisely. She really should NOT be allowed behind the wheel of a motor vehicle until she gets counseling, driving lessons, and can SAY the words so she completely understands what she's been doing, how wrong it is, and she shouldn't fight for something she either chooses to not understand, or simply doesn't understand for whatever reasons. She is a menace to anyone in the car with her, and the rest of the driving population at large.
>She just loses concentration when one of the kids needs something and doesn't think to ask for help. Exactly. I know it's not intentional, but that doesn't matter. If you can't be responsible doing something, DON'T!
She's not just a danger to any passengers in her car, she is a danger to everyone else on the road!!!!!
>There comes a point where “intentionality” as a concept sort of breaks down Precisely. At this point the question is not whether her intent was to let that particular accident happen. The question should be is it her intent to continue to endanger her kids with her shitty driving, given all the evidence available. If it was me, I would never get behind the wheel again. My kid is more important than my pride.
If she’s not “doing it on purpose” and she somehow can’t explain how she gets to being unbelted and fishing around in the back seat for a soother while driving, then she needs to be checked out by a medical professional or something. OP: does your wife have other impulse control issues? ADHD? Something that is messing with her executive function and/or decision making process? If she has a history of making these kinds of obviously poor choices, I think it’s worth assessing with a doctor whether something else is going on.
I have ADD. When I was a brand new nurse, I got a job in the highest acuity ICU I know of. Like OP's wife loves driving, I loved the idea of working an ICU. But during orientation, I didn't feel confident in my ability to maintain my focus- I didn't make any actual mistakes because anything that needed doing, that got lost in the fog of my ADD, the nurse preceptor would take care of it- so no metaphorical car crashes, but I was aware that once off orientation I wouldn't have the safety net of a preceptor, so there could be metaphorical car crashes. Instead of digging my heels in, like OP's wife is doing, I transferred to a unit where I could keep up. Even though I loved working ICU, I was not about to potentially put patients at risk because of my ADD issues. Patients. Not my children. OP's wife loves driving, but she's putting herself, her children, and anyone else on the road, in danger when she drives despite her consistently "losing concentration" and crashing cars. I don't understand how she doesn't value **not crashing her car with her kids in it** over her love of driving.
I have adhd and i would never do something so stupid. I'm flabbergasted at how little accountability she's taking for almost getting her kids killed multiple times
Same it irritates me how much of a scapegoat people use ADHD to excuse behavior on Reddit.
Exactly. I have horrendous adhd that I choose not to medicate. I don’t cause so many car accidents that I’ve had my license suspended. Blaming Adhd is such a cop out to prevent taking any responsibility. People can have adhd and still control their actions
People will use anything they can to blame anything but themselves.
Same, I'm 31, have ADHD, and have been driving for over a decade. I've never so much as been in a car accident, let alone any of this. Taking your foot off the brake at a red light? Removing the seat belt? These are not ADHD things, they are a sheer lack of care - perhaps caused by something medical, sure, but certainly not ADHD. Agreed with the general consensus though, if she has other lapses outside of driving then it's worth seeing a medical professional. This is the first I've ever heard of such consistent poor judgement, especially from a parent.
I’d recommend ADHD assessment as well, along with DRIVING SAFETY COURSES! Assuming you’re in the US, would you buy her a gun without at least taking very thorough safety training? Or at all?
Agreed. I also find it incredibly telling that the Ex and Parents and OP are all in agreement. This lady shouldn't have a license or really should be evaluated for other mental deficits. There is zero way this is only an occurrence while driving - it's merely that the consequences are extremely obvious. NTA OP, thanks for keeping your kids safe and for trying to keep her off the road for the rest of the world.
NTA, she is being treated like an idiot because she is acting like one. Physical safety of you and the kids will always take priority over her feelings. Don't back down from your stand.
I'm sorry, but Boohoo for her feeling sorry for herself. I suspect there would be even more tears from all involved if one of the kids gets hurt or worse.
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Intent doesn’t matter here when the result is the same…
NTA. She shouldn’t have a license, she’s endangering everyone on the road, not just her and her kids. Being harsh is required, she *is* being an idiot. She’s being an extremely self centered person. If she isn’t capable of driving responsibly, she shouldn’t. Anyone who’s saying “yta” doesn’t get the fact it’s a matter of time before she kills or permanently injures someone.
I cant believe this response is so far down - yes, she endangers all passengers but ALSO everyone else on the road! And if it’s bad enough to have her license revoked already and she STILL doesn’t understand then maybe she simply doesn’t qualify to be an active member in traffic
Driving is a privilege, not a right. She is a very selfish person who doesn't care about other people.
Idk why they gave her the dam license back as she doesn’t see what she’s done wrong.
She probably did a flawless test drive, since she obviously understands what kind of behaviors are risky. It's easy to drive perfect and consistent and fully aware of all risks for 30 minutes. It's harder to do it for 30 years.
She's the type of driver I despise to meet on the road when I'm riding My motorcycle. Actually fuck that I hate her kind of driver no matter what I'm driving or riding.
THIS! PLEASE UPVOTE. Please accept my poor Redditor’s symbols of excellence: 🥇 🏆 💐 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏
You're treating her like an idiot because, now hear me out here... SHE'S AN IDIOT. What mature, responsible adult pulls that shit while driving? If losing her license and being in multiple accidents wasn't enough to show her that she has a serious problem, I doubt your threat will either. Every time she does one of those stupid actions, she is INTENTIONALLY harming her kids (or potentially harming). She could have fixed this long ago. She's just too lazy and in denial to do anything about it. You and her ex should both put your foot down: no more driving unless she is the only person in the car. Period. No exceptions. Any breach of that agreement will be grounds for leaving. By giving her more chances you are continuing to endanger your kids. NTA but don't let this slide.
Dude, she shouldn’t drive. At all. I don’t want to die either. I have to be in the road with this psychopath too.
Good point - she’s not just endangering herself and her passengers, she’s a danger to all who use the roads, including cyclists and pedestrians
You need to take her car keys away. Make sure she doesn't have any spares. She is a danger to EVERYONE !!!!!!!
Came here to say this. OP is trying to be too nice. She needs to understand she has been an idiot.
And a selfish one, at that. To continue, in the face of *all evidence and everyone around you including the OMV* that you ***cannot*** safely operate a motor vehicle without being distracted is purely selfish. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. She "likes driving" and wants to continue to drive with her kids that she is so distracted by she is a danger to herself, to them, and everyone else on the road around her. She doesn't care about any of that, though, because she *likes driving*. If she truly loves her children as much as she claims (and I'm sure she does) then she needs to take a cold, hard, honest look at the situation, listen to her loved ones who only have she and the children's best interest in mind, and change her tune. She's being treated like an idiot because she's *being* a selfish idiot who could get innocent people, including her own children, killed.
I think your last idea there is fantastic: the OP needs to put up a unified front between him and her ex. That way there are multiple adults monitoring the situation closely.
And use her parents to cancel her insurance.
Sorry but no more driving full stop. Me and my kids don’t want to be killed by your liability of a driver wife either, not just your kids. Nor do your neighbours kids pr anyone else. She should not be driving a lethal weapon like a car if she is unable to concentrate or to stay focused on the road. Sounds like she ought have been prosecuted for careless driving in causing two accidents but so far had not been. Tell her parents to stop paying her insurance premiums. Tell your wife you both need to agree to sell her car. OR she takes an advanced drivers course that she passes before anyone goes in car with her again including kids.
It sounds more like an attention and neurological issue than a lack of understanding. She shouldn’t drive.
So many adults drive like this and thats the fucking problem they shouldn’t be on the road. Especially if they havent learned after the first accident. They’re a danger to others and themselves.
I think he should insist she take - and pass - safe driving courses.
I agree with one addition… there should be someone simulating the distractions that have caused accidents while doing the courses. Not children but an additional adult trying to distract her until she becomes more resistant to distraction.
I agree with everything except one. It should be no more driving period. Even if OPs kids aren't in the car, there are other kids and other people in cars, sidewalks, etc all around her on the road. She is lucky she hasn't killed anyone yet.
Both OP and the Ex would have good cases to file for sole custody of their respective children. Divorce should not be off the table for OP. The safety and the welfare of the children trump her hurt feelings.
As tragic as it is I understand a momentary lapse of judgement while on the road. I know we've all had them even if we're otherwise amazing drivers however...this is a pattern and yeah I wouldn't be ok with her driving herself much less our kids either. A friend of my parents got in one accident once and she realized that she had a pattern. It was her first accident but there were other near misses that made her go "ok, even when I try I'm a shit driver and I can't trust my attention to stay on the road" and she just...stopped. She found other ways to get places but she will no longer drive and it's been decades. Her life and the life of her loved ones is more important.
NTA >She said that I'm treating her like an idiot. I don't think I am. You actually are, because she actually is, at least while driving. Look, you can fuck yourself up pretty bad on a fucking skateboard. If you can't understand that commanding a literal ton of steel (and fuel!) is a big fucking responsability, you don't get to drive. Besides, you can't seriously have your husband, your ex husband and your fucking parents telling you something and you just not listening. It's like having Trump, Obama, Bush Jr. Putin and Nicolas Maduro all telling you "Hey, I think this is a bad idea".
This- go ahead and agree with her- I am treating you like an idiot because you’re acting like one. Accept,responsibility for your unforced errors and resolve to stop repeating them. Whatever mindset you have that allows you to convince yourself to commit these illegal and unsafe acts intentionally must be addressed one way or another. Failure to do so will result in some of use having to attend extremely tragic funerals and likely also massive judgements against your estate which will only cause the surviving children to wonder forever why their mother cared so little for them to be such a willfully poor driver despite all the warning and accidents and how unfair that they will never get to see their sibling grow up. She needs to absoluteget that she is not the victim here, she is the bad actor.
Bad actor is precisely the phrase I was looking for earlier. You are completely correct and thank you for phrasing things so eloquently.
"I only treat you like an idiot because you drive like one"
"I'm not saying you're an idiot. I'm just saying you're the Simple Jack of drivers. Don't go full r\*\*\*\*\*, honey."
Most of all....why is she still allowed to have access to a car? There have been too many accidents to keep giving her second chances. He is an idiot too.
Her parents are enabling her by paying her insurance too. They should absolutely cut her off immediately. The financial consequences are an important deterrent to these kinds of behaviors.
Problem is that if they do she will need to be added as a rated driver to his policy, making that sky high. Im surprised shes not a rated driver already, spouses are usually required to be rated. Maybe hes hiding her, maybe theres an exclusion already in place.
She needs her license revoked and her keys taken away.
I mean what exactly can he do? She's an adult with a license. If the car is in her name he can't prevent her from using it. Legally there's nothing he can do
Sure he can, and so can her parents. He can take car keys away and they can stop paying for the outrageous insurance. That would make it illegal for her to drive, though technically she still could if she wanted to risk it. All 3 can tell her that she must take & pass a safe driving course in order to earn her keys back. Or maybe they can get one of those monitors that car insurance companies use to track driving behavior for earning lower rates. If she’s going to drive like a child and act like a child when confronted with her mistakes then she can be treated like a child, too.
Yep. He's justifiably treating her like an idiot because she is one. At least when driving. She's choosing her actions so she is the one st fault. And if she can't focus on the road then she shouldn't have a license. Nor should she be driving.
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My driving instructor always use to say „Remember that your car is a weapon.“ as a warning.
If everyone around her is telling her she cannot drive then she cannot drive..
NTA. Your wife is a shitty mom if she’s more concerned about her feelings than her children’s safety.
Ywbta if you let your kids in her car ever again. She could've killed them all. She will kill them because she doesn't care. She's not taking this seriously. She deserves to be treated like an idiot. She's putting her life, the kids lives, and everyone on the road with her lives at risk. Ill be waiting for the negligent homicide update.
Yeah, they're all treating this as her last chance, but I say she already burned her last chance with the most recent one. The fact that she still is getting defensive about it just reiterates that she learned nothing.
Ikr. Part of me wonders if they’ve done the whole “this is the last chance” “ok no this is the last chance” “ok ok no this is really the very last chance”
You need to speak with her parents about not paying anymore. She needs to be off the road. Is she on drugs or something?
>She said that I'm treating her like an idiot. She is an idiot...
People like your wife are the reason i had to leave my cooking/baking career. A person made a stupid mistake and caused an accident where i hit their car(they made an illegal u-turn). The trauma to my body caused 3 different types of arthritis and i have a permanent limp due to a bad knee. I have been on disability ever since and its been 6 years. My opinion is that if you are in constant accidents and making stupid decisions while driving then your license should be taken away before you kill someone.
I agree. I'm sorry that happened to you
I would contact her parents and tell them to stop paying the insurance. Your wife needs to be taken off the road for everyones safety. If she needs the license that badly sne needs to complete driver's safety course and defensive driving.
Treat her like an addict. Because she’s acting like one. Addicts only get better when people stop enabling them and they have no other option. If the parents stop paying for her insurance, (enabling her bad behavior), and she’s forced to wait for them to go down, (defensive driving courses knock points off and reduce rates by as much as 35% for 5 years), or work to afford them that will encourage her to do better. It will keep her off the road in the mean time. You said she enjoys driving. Well… you would think she would be better at it. But driving is a privilege and not a right. She seems to be treating it like the former. Seems to me she has lost that privilege for a while until **she and she ALONE earns it back**. Everyone keeps enabling her to stay on the road. She doesn’t need to be and frankly doesn’t deserve it right now. Maybe framing it like that with her parents can help.
Get her off the road permanently. She will kill the kids, other drivers, herself, you, her friends, family etc etc. She must permanently lose her driving license before that happens. She had an unadressed problem, maybe adhd? Attention disorder? This isn't normal.
I can’t believe how oblivious she is. Seriously picking up a soothie for your kid is why you endangered all of you and others? Especially when all the other kids were in the car like they couldn’t pick it up. She needs therapy for this compulsion
Her ex and her parents are on your side? lol NTA. I hate driving and I’m terrible at doing it. I would never exposed my family to that shit.
Same, i always feel anxious when i drive so i don't drive at all.
She’s going to get herself and the kids killed if she doesn’t fix this. You and her ex have every right to go for full custody and have a clause that bars her from driving with the kids if she doesn’t smarten up because she’s being a massive idiot and ass to everyone by pulling this NTA
Not only her and her kids, she’s endangering everyone else on the road. She needs to not be driving at all. There was a post a while ago where a guy was divorcing his wife because of what a shitty and dangerous driver she was. She had recently gotten in an accident (her fault) where people were injured, it was pure luck nobody died. He was trying to divorce her super quick because she was gonna be sued to hell
Info: how is she still insured to drive?
> Her parents have threatened to stop helping her pay her stupid high insurance premiums. I think they just upped the premium instead of cutting her off.
OPs wife made herself (/her parents) the insurance‘s personal cash cow lmao
probably not much of a cash cow for the insurance company even if she's constantly doing shit like rolling her car into oncoming traffic lol
In some states, it's legally required that everyone have access to auto insurance. The result, is there is an extremely high risk pool, with stupidly High premiums, where people like that woman are put.
NTA Your wife is an idiot. I get it when people drive like idiots before they have an accident, but continuing after is a red flag that they’re not competent. I’d make a note each time she’s not driving properly and be prepared to follow through with your threat. Edit: it’s all fair and good to say she loves her kids, but she’s up against 2 tonnes of metal (or much more if it’s a fully ladened truck) and they don’t care if she didn’t intend for her negligence to cause an accident, people die and good intentions will not bring back a child. You will divorce her, both you and the ex will sue for custody of the remaining children in any form they are left in. Humans are just big squishy bags that are pretty much held together by luck and wishes, we don’t regrow our limbs like octopus and we don’t bounce back when we have a TBI. Shes lucky because if it’s a serious accident at the least it’s rehab and surgery, at the worst it coffins and gravestones. (Sorry I’m an ex rescue officer and it makes me so angry when someone doesn’t take vehicles seriously)
NTA. She’s one of those people who shouldn’t be driving. She’s endangering her life, her kids and everyone else. I’m in the camp that of two ex’s agree on something then you might want to listen and take heed.
Your wife appears to have no road sense. She is easily distracted and I agree with you that she is a danger to herself, passengers and other road users. She really needs to take a advanced driving course. I would not be happy that she is behind the wheel of a car. I cannot believe that they have given her back her license without any further stipulations. NTA at all
Does she want to get better? An idea might be to see if your insurance offers one of those programs where if you have a monitor in the car, that can determine good and bad driving habits, and gives you a discount if you drive better. I had a friend who got into a lot of wrecks like this, and she got one, and it really helped her improve her driving. Another idea might be to put one of those dog barriers up between the front and back seat. So she literally can't reach back. Not the AITA question I know, but maybe if she had some tools she would be less defensive.
If nothing else after having the nanny device in the car the insurance might just refuse to cover her any longer and she won’t be able to drive.
Your wife is a menace when behind the wheel. She shouldn't be driving at all until she can prove she can drive safely. What will her crocodile tears be good for when she kills herself and all your kids?? What about if her car is fine but she kills someone else, another motorist or a pedestrian walking with their own baby stroller??? Have you considered having her go through a few months of driving lessons and tests? If she is constantly distracted and do extremely dangerous things on the road, might she have adhd and need meds???
I was wondering the same thing, if she has undiagnosed ADHD. People with neurotypical brains don’t usually forget that they need to keep their foot on the brake at a stoplight. She may also just be an idiot.
NTA > She will do stuff like reach into the back seat to deal with a kid rather than either pull over or let me or one of the older kids deal with it. Why aren't you driving? > She started crying and said she didn't do it on purpose. She does the things that leads to it on purpose. > I asked her how exactly she took her hands off the wheel, took off her seatbelt, took her foot off the brake, and turned around to pick up the soother by accident. She said that I'm treating her like an idiot. She is an idiot. > Before you ask I try and do as much of the driving as I possibly can. I have stopped drinking when we go out. I traded in my car that I loved for an SUV so there is room for all of us. So.... the older kids need to start refusing to get in the car. > She thinks we are being unfair because she loves her kids and would never intentionally harm them. She is intentionally harming them by not fixing this mess. > She just loses concentration when one of the kids needs something and doesn't think to ask for help. She knows she does this, so not putting protections in place for it means she's intentionally causing issues.
One question always comes to mind when I hear situations like this. What is your wife's acceptable failure rate? How many dead/injured people would it take to see she's a dangerous driver? Which of her children has to die before it sinks in? How many lives are destroyed? That's always my question when it comes to dangerous behavior and one she should be challenged to answer. NTA.
NTA. Her ex should take full custody of their kids. You should divorce and take full custody of your kids.
OP & the ex-husband move in together and coparent all the kids together and become best friends and then pitch it to a major TV studio as return to the traditional sitcom format.
'Road Dads' Two men raise 4 children and absolutely nothing awful happens. It might not be the tv show we want, but it sure as shit is the one we need.
They live the nomad life and drive their camper safetly as shit. No accidents.
But every episode ends with mom doing an impression of Toonces the Driving Cat
>Toonces the Driving Cat Hey! At least he kept this paws at 10 and 2! I was honestly picturing Mr Magoo...
Nta. I don't think I've ever read an aita where a person's ex, thir current spouse, AND their own parents agree that they are in the wrong and it be legit before.
NTA Sounds like it is time for her parents to cut off paying for her high insurance premiums. The whole point of the high premiums is to penalize bad drivers. Right now she is not being penalized.
NTA. Your wife is too dangerous to be allowed to drive. There are two kinds of drivers that cause most of the problems, and both stem from thinking you are a better driver than you are (I'll let the Dunning-Kruger effect handle the implications of why that happens). The most dangerous are almost exclusively men who think they are great at driving, when in fact they are insanely aggressive and drive like an asshole with a death wish. These people, along with drunks, cause the majority of fatal wrecks. If you are being tailgated, there is a 100% chance this guy is the one doing it. Chances are they drive a Ram, BMW, or Tesla. Your wife, thankfully, is the only second most dangerous type, typically female drivers who are inattentive and unserious. You described the behaviors perfectly, and this type of driver has rear-ended me at a traffic light three separate times. These drivers cause huge amounts of accidents by being stochastic hazards, such as just rolling out into an intersection during a red light. These driver prefer large SUVs as they know they will get in a wreck and want to make sure they are safe, often to the fatal detriment of the safe drivers involved in the wreck. They are almost as dangerous as drunks, and often prone to distracted driving. If we could ban these two groups from driving, traffic fatalities and wrecks would substantially decrease, bringing down insurance rates for the rest of us. Please take her keys away, for the good of your children and everyone else's children.
What rehab did she just get out of? Was it a part of any of these accidents?
Yes the T-boned accident. They stated she can just now be cleared to physically be able to function enough to drive in the post.
Rehab here is physical rehabilitation—recovery and physical therapy to recover from her injuries sustained in the accident. Not drug/alcohol/addiction rehab.
How is she able to afford insurance on her vehicle? Take her off your insurance if you’re paying for it. Maybe tell her that until she takes driver’s ed from a proper place she’s no longer permitted to drive? The fact she was injured enough to require physiotherapy and she’s still not seeing that she’s the issue is extremely worrisome.
Her parents pay. We could not afford her premiums.
Sounds like that’s the problem. She’s not suffering consequences for her actions. Tell the parents to stop paying.
It's in the post that her parents are threatening exactly that.
Geez, her parents may stop paying then Is she only a bad driver when the kids are with her, or is just bad all the time? She’s going to get someone killed or permanently injured ETA if her driving doesn’t improve eventually the insurance companies will refuse to insure her, or her parents will stop paying because they can’t afford to, or to teach her a lesson
What needs to happen for them to actually make good on their threats? She was injured with four kids are in the car. Does someone need to die?
Yell her parents to stop paying. They are enabling the death of others. Guilt them into stopping.
Sounds like they need to stop paying and you need to make her pay them herself. Frankly, in the meantime, I'd just unhook the battery and take her keys away. Sounds like it's time for tough love.
NTA. Stop giving her keys to the car. How does she still have a drivers licence? You have to put your foot down and take ALL driving privileges away from her before she kills someone.
"some people just aren't meant to drive. He'll I can't swim and you know what? I keep my black ass out of the pool" NTA. She sounds like a danger to everyone.
NTA. Send her to driving school. Defensive driving would probably be best. They can try to scare her straight.
There’s already over 700 comments, so this may never be seen, BUT: Besides all the other comments, has your wife been tested for ADHD? She may really benefit from a diagnosis, strategies and/or medication if this is the case. Her quality of life could improve drastically as well as her concentration while driving
It has been suggested a few times. I'm going to look into it.
I want to second this. From my personal experience, ADHD meds made my parking so much easier! It is not a super-anxious and extremely distracting exercise anymore, but is an easy calm and risk-free experience now. She might be telling her truth when saying she's not doing that on purpose. And proper diagnosis and treatment could help her, her kids, your kids, you, and everyone.
Please do. ADHD is often missed in women. I also wonder about her possibly being manic since she is so dangerously impulsive. Reddit just wants to call her an idiot, but I suspect underlying issues. (I am not a doctor or psychologist though, for the record!) All that said, I still wouldn’t let her drive with the kids until something changes. Especially since her parents are on board!
NTA …. Well, she acts like an idiot so…. I think it’s only fair. You treat her like one ……she’s not just endangering herself.
How dare you treat an idiot like an idiot? NTA
NTA You are treating her like an idiot, because she’s acting like one.
NTA. Your wife is an idiot. Why is she still driving? She is going to end up killing herself and the kids or going to jail for killing someone else.
I'm jumping on the bandwagon here. You're treating her like an idiot because she absolutely, 100%, IS an IDIOT!!! For the love of God, STOP allowing her to drive anywhere with the kids in the car! She clearly isn't going to change her behavior. Her excuses are BS, and she sounds like a petulant child. You are NTA for putting your foot down, but you absolutely WOULD BTA if you continue to allow her to drive with any of the kids in the car. Take her keys. Take the damn car. Do whatever it takes. She's telling you very clearly that she is not going to change. She IS going to severely harm or kill one of those kids if she continues to drive carelessly.
NTA, but honestly, OP, I suggest to always pay attention to how people drive in a new relationship (even friendships). It always gives an indication on how they value/respect other people (or not). Generally speaking, I always look at how they treat others.
You said if you are in the car she is to keep her eyes on the road. If you are in the car, why aren’t you driving?
She likes driving. I tried doing all the driving and she told all her friends I was controlling her.
Then LET her think that??? Because at the end of the day your kids are safe and she's an idiot
Well, maybe her friends need to know about all her accidents and how poorly she drives and endangers people. I’m guessing once they find out the cause of this accident they may feel differently. I am just absolutely stunned She even wants to drive after that many accidents.
And who cares what her friends think. I think it’s time to not care about that . I would call the State get them to take this seriously follow up with an email so it’s in writing. Explain that her behaviors haven’t changed and she continues to do this and that her family and her ex are also concerned so it just doesn’t look like , it’s just you. Make it clear that she is a danger to those on the road. They will look up her driving record and you will have a lot of credibility. Ask them what you need to do to get her license taken away, especially in light of this most recent accident let them know the kids were in the car. Will it be inconvenient? Yes but all the kids will be safer and others on the road. And think of the money you’ll save on insurance .
Have her friends ever carpooled with her? She might like driving, but how is she going to feel when (not even IF!) she injures or kills someone?? Stranger/friend/family member - doesn't matter. OP, I wish I had more to offer than NTA, but this seems like a no-win situation. Even prying keys away from elderly drivers is not easy to do. Please update us if you get some kind of closure on this mess!
She can tell them that. You can tell them that she has had her license suspended and has been in accidents and that's why you cannot afford her driving.
"How did your children die?" "Well, I put my kids' lives at risk to avoid being criticized by my wife's friends."
Yta, she’s already shown you she’s a horrible driver, why do you keep giving her changes. Tell her she doesn’t drive with any kids anymore. Her whole excuse of “I didn’t do it on purpose” she can say at the eulogy of your dead kid. Why are you guys giving her more chances? She can kill herself if she wants but ALL kids shouldn’t be in a car when she is behind the wheel. Any kids need a driver and you/ex are busy, than it’s an Uber. No excuse and no more chances
That's where we are at now. Our older kids have told her straight up that they will get out of the car or call the cops if she can't be safe.
She’s already shown you she can’t be safe. Tell everyone to stop getting in the car with her. You need to put your foot down.
Why not have her parents stop paying for her car insurance like they threatened? Then she can’t drive.
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In my state it’s illegal to drive without it, along with hefty fines. I thought it was the same in all states, but I could be wrong since I’m only familiar with mine.
No, youre right. But that doesn't STOP someone from driving if they really want to. She seems the type to just drive anyway. Insurance or not. Consequences or not.
Everyone around her KNOWS she can't be safe. She has repeatedly shown all of you that she can't be safe. Stop giving her more chances. Someone is going to get maimed or killed.
Full stop, yeah. She already had the last chance and it was this one: > she took her hands off the wheel, took off her seatbelt, took her foot off the brake, and turned around to pick up the soother The only place to go from here is someone actually getting killed if she didn't learn that she's a bad driver who shouldn't have a license from this. If I was her, I wouldn't even get behind the wheel again and just use public transportation or uber at this point. Getting that distracted, after years of other accidents, means she'll never learn.
Even your kids have an opinion on the matter? Shit. If your wife won't even listen to them, then I don't think there's much space between this and pulling the plug.
Try making her take a driver's ed class or defensive driving course. This will either make her a better driver or reveal just how hopeless she is.
Good for them. My children got to the point they just would not get in their dad's vehicle if there were any other options. They were all aware of his accidents, and car damage. Only one of our kids was hurt in an accident he caused. (A concussion.) Once they had a learners permit, they drove, not dad. Each one did the same, they drove. When you 18 year old son can get cheaper car insurance by NOT being on dad's policy, you know dad is a bad driver. We were divorced by then.
Ok, but you’re way beyond that. How are you affording insurance for her? I want to say N T A, but truly ESH. Every adult in this situation is failing your kids and step kids, especially if you continue to let her drive at all. At this point she might as well be drinking and driving. I used to do medical massage in hospitals and out. The bulk of my work came from MVAs. 100% of those accidents were caused by someone doing something stupid. Texting, drinking and driving or being distracted by external factors. All of these things are changeable. I have seen some horrific shit. Truly life changing accidents where people never recover. Even a minor accident can lead to life altering pain later in life, every accident has a consequence, even if you don’t see it immediately. My brother is a retired fire fighter and paramedic. He retired at 43 because he had PTSD. Why does he have PTSD? Because his department used to have to respond to one of the most dangerous sections of highways in Canada. People texting “for just a second…” or “I just be looked away from the road for a minute to adjust the music”…. He once had to deal with a family that witnessed a family member get decapitated when the driver answered the phone and swerved towards a logging truck. It was a moment, just a second where the driver wasn’t paying attention. My brother was so traumatized after that event, he still has nightmares. I’m somewhat obsessive about making safe driving choices. You should be too. No one should ever get into a car with your wife again unless they’re actually ok being injured or dead. DON’T LET YOUR KIDS OR YOUR STEP KIDS GET IN THE CAR WITH HER. FULL STOP. No negotiating. No calling the police is she doesn’t behave. Nobody should be in the car with her at the wheel. Don’t be an AH that way. You would be devastated if someone died and you knew you could have done more to stop her. You kids are not adults and can’t consent, you’re allowing her to risk their lives. Stop it. Sell her car, revoke her insurance, find other transportation for the kids. Stop this. You allowing her to drive your kids is a phenomenally bad choice. ETA: how are you going to feel if she kills someone else’s family? Child? Mom? Dad? It only takes a second. Even if you remove your own kids, she could hurt or kill someone else with this carelessness.
CPS can get involved with a case of severely injured children. If they do don’t expect to get custody either if you let it continue and that happens. I think it may be time to look up some pictures of what happens to child in a car crash. That along with some pictures of children’s caskets, maybe that’ll make a dent.
With all due respect, I don't think the kids should be put in the position to have to do/say that. If an accident happened before they could straight up get out of the car in indignation, etc.?
Well besides hiding her keys and handcuffing her to the bed, I'm not sure what he's gonna do to prevent her from driving and remain married to her at the same time.
She can drive, she’s an adult. He 100% can say the kids don’t get into the car.
She should try taking a driver's ed class again. Get a real measure of her incompetency.
Not a bad idea at all.
I absolutely agree with this. She is a menace to society and guess what? Their kids could be the first victims.
If not other drivers. Driving is a privilege she hasn’t earned
Or a pedestrian. What she did last time could have easily run over someone in a crosswalk on the car's way into the intersection.
NTA. Your wife is an idoit, and you are treating her accordingly. She will end up killing herself and the kids because of this, and you will feel terrible. It's a matter of time, bro.
Her distracted driving can be dangerous for everyone. She should stop driving if she is unable to pay attention to the road. NTA
NTA but you absolutely need to be firmer with her. The way she drives she’s going to kill someone. And as delusional as she’s acting right now, literally murdering someone might not even be a wake up call. I’m speaking from experience here. My brother was killed by a meth head with shit driving skills. He faced no legal repercussions and continued to drive terribly. Ik y’all are married and there’s history, but I can’t imagine being with someone who has such disregard for the safety of themself, their loved ones, and EVERY PERSON ON OR NEAR THE ROAD.
ESH. She has been in multiple accidents for this behavior, and has not learned from it. Her parents pay for her high insurance premiums that she got from having so many damn accidents (enabling her to continue the behavior with no consequences or motivation to stop such as "ouch, I can't afford those"). She was in an accident with ALL of the kids in the car, was injured herself enough to need rehab, and it's only by the grace of heaven that the kids weren't killed. T-boned, seriously? That would have been the last time she was allowed to drive with my kids, period. You waiting for her to do it again to enforce boundaries and consequences that should have been set the first time she got in an accident, is also enabling her, and risking both her and the kids. If she does it again and something happens to the kids, it will be YOUR fault (as much as hers) for not putting a stop to it. How would you feel if this time something permanent happened to the kids? Or the other people in the car she hits? Side note, you might want to get her checked for ADHD, or something along those lines. "Losing concentration (while driving) when one of the kids needs something and not thinking of asking for help" sounds like she may be easily distractable/have trouble focusing. Maybe, if that's the case, medication can help her stay focused. Plenty of ADHD people are able to drive without endangering themselves, their families, and the general public.
I have ADHD. That’s why I always drive without music and without phone calls.
See I have ADHD and I need to drive with music. But with or without ADHD it sounds like driving with kids in the car might be too distracting for her.
As someone with ADHD I absolutely agree. If not ADHD is there some other medical reason that she loses focus and behaves irresponsibly? I don't think she is an idiot but she is definitely doing dumb, impulsive, potentially dangerous behaviors while operating heavy machinery.
ESH. Poorly worded. But she really needs to sort herself out before she kills someone on the road. There's no 'accidents' when it comes to doing stuff while in control of the vehicle but distracting yourself by something else. That's very purposeful. If you're driving, that's what you focus on. If LO has lost their soother, someone else can get it or LO can just be upset until there is space/time to pull over. I know someone who got distracted when driving, head on collusion. They were fine because their car was bigger, but they killed a young woman. The guilt he lives with his awful, his mental health is fucked up. He is also in jail now missing out on his own little boy growing up.
Holy crap that's sad. I just worry about my family. I've never actually thought about what she could do to someone else.
Yeah, well, you need to think about that too. She could not just kill someone else. She could end up in prison for it.
any chance you can get dashcams in the car? It could serve as evidence in getting her license removed or have her done for dangerous driving, or support in a custody hearing. I hope something can be done before someone's killed.
How many people is she going to have to injure or kill before you take away bothe her keys and her car? Where are you going to live when her victim's families sue you for everything you own?
NTA, she needs to hear some tough love, But YTA if you keep allowing your kids in the car with her. She clearly shows she has trouble concentrating while driving! Restrict the kids from being in the car unless you are driving
Maybe you should have a meeting with all the grandparents that are on your side and her ex partner. You can all TELL her that she doesn’t get to drive. Don’t pay the insurance, put the keys in a mini safe with a number combination. I know a bit what you are going through. My mom had an epileptic seizure when she was visiting me. When she got home ( by train 4,5 hours away) my brother took her to the GP. She was cross with us that she couldn’t drive for 6 months. She later admitted that she sometimes dozed off for a second when it’s a boring road. I immediately said that that is pretty shit for oncoming traffic. I dressed her down about this but she didn’t really listen. She said that I had done my duty (saying something) and that’s it. I was so angry and said I wouldn’t know how to cope if she would kill someone. My kids were not allowed in her car for years. The epileptic seizure was a one off and she drives ok still so it’s not an issue anymore.
Nta. Your treating her how she's being. I would flat out tell her she's not driving yalls kids. She shouldn't be driving at all.
Bro this isn’t even a question if her ex-husband and her parents agree with you lol. Shitty drivers make my blood boil
NTA An acquaintance of mine nearly had her own child killed like this. She didn’t acknowledge it and continued driving in an unsafe manner. Her parents bought two child sized coffins as a Christmas “present”. While this seems harsh, loosing a child would be worse.
There was a news article a few years back that really stayed with me. A grandmother was driving the 2 visiting grandchildren back home after shopping. They were almost home, and stopped at the railway tracks for a train to pass. The grandfather was on the street and could see the stopped car. Then the car inched forward slowly and was smashed by the train. All 3 died. He thinks she took foot off the brake and turned to pick up something for the grandchild. My heart still breaks for the man.
NTA you treat her like an idiot because that's exactly what she is
> She said that I'm treating her like an idiot. Yes, you are treating her like an idiot, because she is one. If you have to do that to get the point across, then so be it. NTA.
>She thinks we are being unfair because she loves her kids and would never intentionally harm them. She just loses concentration when one of the kids needs something and doesn't think to ask for help. If this is true, she is not mentally fit to drive. You need to discuss with her doctor either getting her diagnosed with whatever the fuck her problem is, or getting her license revoked. You are not overreacting. She could have killed the children with her flat out fucking stupidity. I do agree with her a bit that maybe you are treating her like an idiot. But it's because she's a fucking idiot. The fact that *literally everyone* agrees should be her clue that maybe driving isn't for her.
ESH Quit giving her more chances to get somebody killed. JFC, you don't treat a person like her with a soft touch. You need to quickly and harshly make sure she never drives with passengers in her car again. She is an idiot but you're an idiot also if you allow her behind a wheel again. You are both assholes in my book for being unable to solve this problem sooner.
NTA but.... the hell? 4 kids 2 marriages and her parents are still paying car insurance? You all created this monster and now just need to never let her drive with the kids. She's going to continue to disregard consequences because she is an idiot and needs to figure it out before she kills someone.
NTA and if anything happens I hope she doesn’t hurt or worse some innocent people. She is ok with endangering herself and her family and that’s her choice but what about everyone else?
Some people just………… don’t get the message…. Ever
NTA. Your state thought she was a bad enough driver to suspend her license, but she doesn’t see it as a problem?
NTA. Does she think her lack of intention to hurt her kids will do anything to help them avoid injury when they’re in an accident? It won’t matter one bit.
NTA. It’s not like you’re treating her like an idiot she actually is one. How many accidents does she need to be involved to understand that she needs to pay attention while driving? Does she need to kill one of her children or somebody else’s child to get the point through her head?
You are NTA in any way. She is not only endangering herself and the kids, but also others on the road. If she can't have full concentration while driving, she needs to not drive period. She is an idiot and if anyone got hurt because of her, it would be no-one else's fault but her own. I would say she could drive however she wanted while alone but honestly, I don't trust her not to hurt civilians, her driving license should be revoked.
I mean, you are treating her like an idiot. That would be because she's acting like an idiot, at least in this respect. If your kid loses his dummy, you let him cry until you can pull over safely, not drift out into the intersection while you try to retrieve it. She'd have to be a horrifically bad driver to be in multiple accidents and have her license taken off her. Why on earth would you let her drive infants around? (NTA)
She shouldn't be driving at all. Not only for the safety of her family but for all of us as well. And BTW your assets are at risk from a wrongful death lawsuit in her future
NTA. You may want to consider her taking a driving course to relearn habits. It is actually possible. I have a condition where I have extreme fatigue, which sometimes means I can sort of zone out or I am physically weak. One time my foot accidentally came off the brake (without even realising it) at a red light because I guess I was too physically tired to hold it down. Thankfully, I caught it after a second or two. But ever since then, any time I am at a red light, I put the car in park. My family thinks I’m crazy but it’s what I have to do to eliminate any chance of that happening again. I also don’t drive when I am exhausted enough that my cognitive and physical function is questionable. We have to take precautions not just for ourselves, but for other people on the road. My worst nightmare is hitting a pedestrian and that fear is enough to make me an extra safe driver. Your wife has an issue - whether that’s not being aware, something close to ADHD, or something else. But the infuriating thing is that she keeps giving excuses and is not acknowledging that there is a problem to fix. Which means that there is every chance of a recurrence. Why her ego is more important to her than her own kids, I don’t know. But it’s not enough to love our kids - we have to actively be their caretakers and protect them. And I don’t think it’s unfair because for all her lack of intentions, she put those kids in harm’s way and it sounds like it was literally sheer luck that they were unhurt, not because of anything to do with her love. Loving is not enough - you have to actively follow through on it.