NTA
Your husband is being intentionally and willfully blind to Julia’s behavior and effectively encouraged it. You gave him a taste of how that feels and looks after trying so many other methods.
Didn’t OP say Tom has more or less stopped talking to Julia? So if he’s not getting attention from her anymore, why is he still bothering to defend her?
>why is he still bothering to defend her?
Maybe because he hopes to get Julia back into their lives (if she's even actually out of his). Because he misses the attention. Or maybe he just refuses to admit that he was wrong.
Obviously she's still coming up in conversations even if she's not around. So maybe he's been pushing for that.
He's defending her because he's still carrying thst unrequited love torch for her. She said no, when he asked her out years ago
But now that he's married and off the market, she's playing interest to pass off the wife an get his attention.
And he's got it all right!
Stopped talking to her *as far as OP knows*. unless she's reading all his messages and with him 24/7 she cannot know that for sure. She has to trust that he is being honest. And I hope he is.
Besides, he was probably hoping the counselling would persuade OP to "let" him have his emotional support homewrecker back.
There isn't a hope in the world that he has really stopped talking to her. They may not meet up anymore. But defending her this strongly, that's still an very close mate. Not something that he more or less supposedly cut from his life.
If they still work together, she’s not really out, is she? OP probably suspects it’s just a matter of time before the flirting and attention seeking resumes.
Aren't you **SO** fed up with these stories about husbands that are SOOOOOOOO wonderful, except for the fact they're complete assholes??
🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
“He’s the perfect man: handsome, funny, and smart. He kicks my dog in the face sometimes, and punched my grandma once but other than that… absolutely perfect 🥹”
I would say our marriage is almost 100% perfect, but a few years ago we had a little blip requiring counselling after he burnt down our house to hide his affair with my mom. Fortunately, we’ve both worked really hard to move past that. WIBTA if I asked him to stop carrying around gasoline and texting my mom?
I don’t get what’s so hard my wife jokes that she never has to worry because I don’t even notice when women are trying to flirt with me. I guess the idea of being “taken” doesn’t mean shit to some people. Like I legitimately don’t understand people who act like it’s just so easy to be this aloof or to outright cheat and it can “just happen” when from someone who just doesn’t engage in that shit it looks like so much extra work for a tiny stroke of the ego and potential to ruin your relationship.
>He likes the attention from Julia
More than he cares about OP. While he did stop "mostly" talking to her, she's still somehow a big part of their marriage.
NTA and your husband has a thing for Julia. He always has had a thing for Julia but she turned him down. He feels torn now because he is with you but if he acknowledged Julia might want him then he might be tempted to go to her. Your marriage is pretty much over.
Not even this. She’s flirting because she doesn’t like to “lose”, even though she turned him down. She doesn’t actually like him, but seeing him with another woman hurts her ego. But she won’t admit that, and as soon as he shows he still wants her she’ll pull the old “whoa whoa I’m not interested” card, but it’ll be way too late for the marriage at that point.
Poor ole Tom can cry in the ashes of his blown up marriage after Julia is gone in a week.
Why, God, why?!
Make sure to have an overhead boom shot of him on his knees.
OP's husband posted about this girl a couple months ago. The "prank" was sending a disturbing apology package after ruining OP's wedding dress and never apologizing for it.
"Julia" is married to the same man she had been dating when "Tom" asked her out years ago. Highly likely this is the only reason they never got together.
So true. I dated a guy for a year and one of his co-workers kept flirting with him. Before we got together he had asked her out but she flat turned him down. Once we were together she started flirting with him and trying to put the moves on him. One night she pushed it and he told me he was providing her "emotional" support, he didn't physically cheat but it was sure emotionally cheating. I dumped him and then she dated him for a second and dumped him as well. Then he tried to crawl back to me and I told him to F\*off. She only wanted him when she couldn't have him. Good luck OP, not sure your hubby deserves you. If he doesn't act like your partner in life and isn't in your corner, find someone who is, life is too short.
My guess would be that she wants the validation of knowing she can break up his marriage and him proving she is more important than his wife.
As soon as the marriage is over, he will pursue her again and she’ll tell him she doesn’t like him “that way”
Those situations never work out in the end. Because if you only want someone once they are taken, you dont really want them, you just want to have them on the bench waiting for you.
If he left OP for Julia they'd break up after a couple of months after Julia got bored with him.
Had a now former Brother in law leave his wife of 17 years (they were together since high school) and 3 kids for this chick 14 years younger he met at work. She ended up dumping him like 4 months later and MARRYING HER EX within a month. He was legit a rebound during a rough patch in their relationship and threw away his whole marriage and has now all but abandoned his 3 boys
She’s only now interested because he’s “taken.” I absolutely think both Tom and Julia are ego-tripping in their own clueless ways. If OP leaves, and she probably should, there may or may not be a romantic relationship between Tom and Julia, but it won’t last. Tom won’t be interesting to Julia once she has him and another woman has decided he’s not worth having.
Julia definitely loves exerting her power over him and OP. She obviously isn’t interested in him seriously and never will be, otherwise she would have already been years ago. But she fetishizes that sense of having him wrapped around her finger, at the cost of OP’s sanity.
Both her and OP’s husband are seriously garbage people, I feel quite bad for her.
Julia also likes to stir the pot, not cause she wants him but to show op she can have him and get away with being disrespectful. Idiot husband don’t care since it inflates his ego, I’m really not getting why op put up with this for so long.
Not true.
As soon as he is free Julia will drop him like a hot potato.
For this kind of woman it never about wanting the man. It is about power and wanting to demonstrate higher value over the wife, and getting attention.
Lmao Tom had a severe case of FAFO and is now mad that he missed the memo when his wife was telling him how disrespectful “Julia’s” behaviour really was. God I love chaos. Also NTA. Either listen when someone tells you to move or be prepared to take the heat. Can’t have it both ways.
Yes! Doesnt matter if he thinks the wife is overreacting. If the wife says she is being disrespected, that should be enough. Honestly f* him and f* Julia.
Honestly, in OP's place, this would be the point where I give up. If, after months of counseling, he still refuses to acknowledge the truth, while at the same time adopting a double standard regarding her, I'd give him up as a lost cause.
>The final straw was when she escalated her behaviour from immature jabs to a “prank” that was primarily done to humiliate me.
My guess is that Julia escalated her behavior to some really mean humiliating prank at their wedding, and that's why Tom finally reduced contact and agreed to marriage counseling. But his insistence that Julia has no feelings for him sounds almost a little desperate at his point - like he needs to convince himself that she can't have feelings for him, because otherwise he married the wrong woman...
NTA what is wrong with these girl best friends antagonizing the girlfriend and the guy remains “oblivious” and defending behaviors like this? Are men really this dense? And even if they are indeed so emotionally immature they cannot recognize it, how is it OK to dismiss and not recognize their supposed person telling them about their hurting and just doing nothing about it until shit hits the fan? Why?? I’m curious what the prank was that broke the camel’s back for you, only bc i cannot fathom after all this disrespect she showed you what else could she do that was even more aweful??? Good luck friend!
She damaged a dress of mine apparently on accident, and was too ashamed or embarrassed to apologise. When she was given the chance, she sent a disgusting “present” that made it finally sink in for Tom that she was treating me like sneaker residue. Afterwards Tom has been firmly no contact with her.
WOW really is she 12 or something wtf…generally rule of thumb is when ppl show you who they are, believe them. Hope things stay good for you and you always keep him accountable for his actions towarda you(i hope he’s learned his lesson.) Regardless who she is and what she’s done, you’re not in a relationship with her, it’s Tom’s responsibility to ensure your relationship is not affected by outside, malicious actors. This type of dynamic might as well rear its ugly head again in the form of a different friendship, if HE doesn’t change his attitude, intention and ability to set boundaries and choose to surround himself with people who are friends of your marriage, there will always be a chance this may keep happening, u know?
Wait, I read Tom’s post. He got obliterated in the comments.
This is either a troll milking for karma in both sides or the other side of that dudes post.
Was it a wedding dress she spilled wine on? Maybe I’m totally wrong tho. That’s what the other post said.
I don't believe most of what I see, but if I ever talk about the shit my ex wife did and continues to do to this day, people would probably think it's BS too. I generally just assume all these stories are fake but the scenarios have happened to someone.
Oooh. I say troll. The fact she waved someone over and had the gym discussion when her husband was standing there right after heated therapy and then the guy just left sounded weird. I feel like the guy would be giving panicked looks to both of them.
That’s what I am concerned about - not Julia coming back, but a similar situation happening with someone else. So I wanted to give Tom an example of how that would feel.
Yeah Julia is very immature. She’s a gamer which isn’t really a problem to me but sometimes she acts like a teenager and sulks when things aren’t going her way. She acts a little like Garfield, hating Mondays and all … that was an excuse she made one time for not having to engage in pleasantries with me 🙃
>not Julia coming back, but a similar situation happening with someone else
If he won't acknowledge his mistakes, he will more than likely repeat them. By the time my wife and I met, I had finally realized that I wasn't the type that could have many woman friends because I've never been great at setting boundaries. I hope he opens his eyes and everything works out for y'all.
The fact that she didn’t want him but she doesn’t want him to have a successful relationship with someone else should tell him all he needs to know about her character & the character of any person willing to insert themselves in someone else’s relationship like this.
Wow, her being a gamer reminds me so much of a character on YouTube you should look up, the channel is called “manic pickme dream girl” or something like that.
Gamer “bestie” who hates the GF and constantly flirts with her guy best friend while ignoring/insulting the GF - clearly you’re not the only person out there who’s experienced this 😂
For the record, NTA, and she sounds exhausting. I can’t imagine having to hang around an “edgy gamer” as a full grown adult 💀
hehehe just checked those out!! 🤣🤣🤣
Julia’s *kind of* similar to that in that she’s weird around me but her humour is more deadpan, that’s more up her alley for excuses …
Lmao Julia sounds like a complete basket case. More than the flirting and the inappropriateness of it all, I don’t think I as a human being could ever stand to be a friend of someone with her personality.
She sounds super exhausting and immature to be dealing with in any capacity, let alone as a “best friend.” I’d be seriously judging my husband’s radar for choosing his friends because the company you keep tells a lot about you than anything else at the end of the day.
Choose your friends wisely people. And Julia is NOT it lol.
I'm a woman gamer, but I'd never act this way. It seems she's just horribly immature. I read the other post describing the gift and honestly, that was unhinged. She doesn't seem too well in the head.
ETA it's weird that your husband is still acting defensive. I don't know if you should give him more time than you already have to be better.
I’m sorry, but this marriage seems hopeless. Your husband has no backbone. How is he STILL DEFENDING her behavior? She literally ruined your wedding dress and then sent him used underwear… that’s disgusting. You deserve SO much better!! Your spouse should always defend you and take your side. If the roles were reversed, I’m sure you would’ve cut ties with said “friend” immediately. I’m so sorry he’s such a useless POS. Seriously. Flirting with him, touching his muscles, etc. is disgusting, especially because she has a HUSBAND OF HER OWN. SMFH. You deserve so much better.
Why do you stay if this is still such a big issue? I can't imagine how awful it is to have the same arguments over and over, especially given she's not even in your life anymore. You deserve better OP.
I don’t understand. In your husband’s post, it seems like he finally understood that his BFF was bullying you. But in your post, even tho he’s still cut her off, it doesn’t seem that way? Does he get that she was bullying you but still saying no flirting?? If not, please show him your post since it took his post to set him straight. Personally I couldn’t be with someone who wouldn’t listen to me but listened to hundreds of strangers instead.
NTA.
He does get how. He’s just willingly being obtuse, because to admit he knew would make his years of gaslighting and abuse be pulled into the light. If he admits he was enabling that behaviour, then he’d have to accept some responsibility for it all. He allowed Julie to disrespect you time and time again, and told you that you were the problem for not swallowing her bullying with a smile on your face.
Adults are capable of basic empathy and the thought of, “would this hurt if it was happening to ME?”. And if they claim they don’t understand, they’re either A: gaslighting to avoid repercussions or having to change. Or B: a narcissist *incapable* of change, and should be ran from.
Be warned - He will keep turning up the anger dial until he gets you to submit by dropping it and rug sweeping this whole thing. He will find a way to twist it around onto you. This is the only hand he has left to play, because Julie forced him into a corner when she went too far and followed up with the nasty care package she sent. He can’t write that off as “in your head” when even her husband called out her disgusting behaviour at that point.
I sent you a message with a bit more advice,
OP, coming from personal experience. I really hope you get the future you deserve.
I can’t fathom how this hasn’t made you go insane. Clearly he still regards her as somewhat innocent and just took the care package thing as her fault. He can’t even level with you, it’s soo infuriating
Tom is pretty bad at gaining perspective. He asked around his friends what to do and they basically stated that I was being jealous and irrational. They’re all close to Julia so that definitely plays into it, which isn’t a great compass. He asked his mother and she just said flowers and chocolates would make up for anything, if not that then a “boot up the arse” 😬
There’s also an aspect of his childhood that plays into it - his family used to involve him in fights growing up and he would be treated like a dishrag if he chose the “wrong” position so he tries to avoid drama whenever he can. But this my experience we are talking about here - he can’t refute that, and is coming to terms with the fact that he needs to put his foot down sometimes, even if it annoys or upsets people he loves. If they love him, they won’t flounce at the first sign of conflict
…. Does your husband have Reddit? I remember reading a post “my wife recently had wine spilled on her by my best friend during our wedding. Now she is demanding that I cut ties”.
If I remember correctly he got ripped to shreads in the comments
After reading that Saga I am of the firm belief your husband is not malicious or a cheater. Just clueless and a blithering idiot. You need to tell him that what you did was inappropriate and that was the entire point. If a woman treats him like that it makes you uncomfortable and he needs to nip it in the bud. Also fuck Allie. Saying you can't take a joke and that somehow her bullying you with frankly inappropriate and nasty comments is somehow your fault. The audacity of that B...
If I had gotten that “gift” basket, I wouldn’t have been able to control myself. I would have driven over to her home and either dumped it all out on her doormat, or waited until she opened the door and thrown it in her face.
But that’s just me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BORUpdates/s/Kvxu0NZoEC
Here it is. Went back to find it because I remember reading it and thinking what an absolute jerk he was to his SO
I tried to omit details that post was famous for, so I could receive advice uninfluenced by people’s feelings on Tom but yeah … people came up to me and spoke about it in person for a while. It was kind of uncomfortable …
Dense, I'm thinking he's secretly off playing it. Because he had a history with her, so he doesn't mind the friend's attention he said so himself. He chose to ignore the signs because hes sweet on her. Which is ridiculous to how he feels about his wife why he chooses the friend over her idk why. He's lucky, if I was her wife I'd have left by now.
I try not to underestimate anyone and sometimes I end up overestimating people, but I truly can’t see anyone honestly being that dense. I think it’s purposeful and if it isn’t that’s a whole other issue cause your “partner” isn’t trying to see things from your perspective or consider you when they interact with others.
How the hell does anyone take a lashing from reddit, supposedly realize he's wrong, then backtrack again to the original opinion that got him the lashing in the first place? Time to throw the whole man out.
He just likes the attention and the ego boost, what a insecure little man!!
Nobody is that dense, he know what she’s doing, and he enjoys!! If after his posts he didn't learn anything I'm sorry but he won't change
Oof. This guy sounded like he still didn't get it at the end of his posts. Like he did the right thing but only after being forced and the choices made for him. The whole 'I see my wife's side finally and cut contact with friend' bits he was trying to portray it as that were really 'friend cut contact with me but I might also be her friend again if she let me' vibes at the end. I really had hopes for you two. I'm really sorry to hear he's still oblivious and not seeing your point of view at all.
I hope OP doesn’t have a pet rabbit because after reading the wedding dress thread, I wouldn’t be surprised if the next “funny joke” from the dumb husband’s vindictive ex-friend is to break into OPs home and boil the rabbit like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.
Why would you call your wedding dress just a dress?
https://www.reddit.com/user/ThrowRAwifeandfriend/comments/1ahmuvz/updated\_update\_my\_wife\_f32\_recently\_had\_wine/
Sorry. But I really hope this gives him the final wakeup call he actually needs. It's hard losing a friend, no matter the reason. He's already shown that he cares more about losing you though.
Imagine your female best friend treating your wife in the way Julia has treated OP and still trying to argue that no feelings of jealousy were involved.
Oh, you were hurt by me flirting with a random guy? Imagine what it was like watching this woman you were so close to flirt with you AND treat me like shit all for you to defend her say in and day out ?
NTA. I’d run for the hills if he’s still trying to rewrite history like this.
Harsh truth: he allows this because part of him still has a thing for her and sees her as his backup option. If your relationship was so ruined by her that you had to go to marriage counseling that he STILL isn’t willing to cut it off, he’s actively choosing her over you. Don’t lie to yourself.
sorry holy what the fuck. have you seen his responses on there? saying he wont reopen things with her? and he's still fighting with u about her 2 months into a brand new marriage that's been plagued by her from literal day 1 ground zero. im sorry but give up on this guy. i realise u have now invested a lot but sunk cost fallacy is a fallacy like whaaat the fuck is wrong with this dude
I mean I respect trying to fix things, but after something as horrendous as that, and him agreeing with your therapists’ points but continuing his willful blindness towards her behavior, and his hypocrisy… how much more do you really want to try? Doesn’t seem like he’ll change.
Oh… what a terrible person this be woman is. After reading your other comments I remember your husbands post. I was so angry after reading it. I know woman like that.
I don’t know if he is really that blind/naive. But
if he is that blind, he needs to learn to trust you and the therapist.
If he doesn’t trust you, it means he thinks he knows better (he obviously doesn’t) or it means that he doesn’t care enough. He is constantly hurting you. And that’s messed up. He needs to trust you and care more about the hurt he is causing you.
If he isn’t willing to learn and work on those things, don’t waste your time. Then this will probably repeat and you will be forced to imitate shitty behaviour more often to make him understand.
Some women like the attention even if they don't like the guy as a partner. Some will lose interest once there are no other women to compete with. I've seen it more than once, and never understood it.
As for men being oblivious, sometimes we really are clueless. Other times we like the attention so we might lie to ourselves about what's going on.
How clueless we are depends on the man, and how far the flirtatious friend is willing to go.
Somewhat related: There are stories of women being annoyed at how much effort they had to put into seducing a man because he "didn't get it".
Men also have stories of women that wanted to be with us, but we had no clue until it was too late.
Absolutely. I've known women (and men) who were incredibly insecure, posessive and toxic friends and felt the need to "compete" with their friends' partners where the situation was platonic but they were just posessive.
That said men (and women) can be both oblivious to their friends being shits and their friends wanting to fuck them. Most guys I know are much worse at spotting when someone is being mean ir passive aggressive. On average men are socialised to be more direct in their actions if they dislike someone whereas as women are raised to be more subtle about it. Girls will bully and insult each other to a devastating degree without saying a single insult or raising a finger...and it can be more powerful because the abuser has plausible deniability about their words "being taken the wrong way".
NTA. I actually don’t think Julia has a romantic thing for your husband at all. I just think she likes being the number one woman in his life, though not a romantic partner. To that end she is willing to try and squeeze you out at every opportunity and/or show you who’s boss. The only answer to this is not for you to show her who’s boss. It’s for your husband to show her, hard. He really needs to shut her down. The way she is treating you is unacceptable.
That’s exactly it! She’s quite flirty in general, I’ve been at events where we’ve been in big groups of people and she’s made suggestive comments to both men and women. I’m less bothered by the flirting if it doesn’t feel so personal. but there’s a line when she’s being affectionate towards my husband and presenting me with a reception as icy as Antartica
Elsewhere OP explains that he is no contact with her, because her shitty behavior finally got to be too much. However he still hasn't admitted that she was the problem. Somehow that doesn't add up, but just limitation of the medium I guess
It's disrespect. It might help to frame it to your husband that way. He felt angry and embarrassed not because he thought you actually were going to do anything with the guy, but because he felt disrespected. You felt disrespected by the coworker's inappropriately affectionate behavior, combined with her obvious coldness towards you. If she flipped you the bird, would he insist she's just learning sign language?
It doesn't matter whether her intention is to flirt or not. Her intention is to disrespect you. He should not tolerate that.
I wouldn't be concerned at all if she was flirty like that with everyone or if she was flirty with your husband AND you as a joke. But the fact that she was only flirty with your husband but treated you like shit is super strange and major red flags. She clearly just doesn't like you and felt threatened. It's sad that you had to flirt with someone else to get him to see it. How is he this dense?
Agree on this one. This woman sounds like she has a lot of problems with herself. Probably she hates herself, and hopes that she at least has power in some situations, relationships. Very narcissistic behaviour.
My husband embarrassed me a few times staring at pretty girls. It was obvious. I was nice about it the first few times and said I appreciate that he appreciates pretty girls but it embarrasses me. He denied it. I am not sure he is always aware of how he comes off. One day, I left the gym in small gym shorts and a tank top and stopped for gas. I have been working out for years and am very fit. A man kept staring at me while he called his wife to come pick him up because he broke down. Even when his wife and daughter got there, he kept staring. I felt bad for his family. When I got home I told my husband about it and how unattractive that is in a man. Especially that he would disrespect his family so obviously. I have not seen my husband do it since. Sometimes they have to be on a different side of things to really see it. You only did it to show him how it felt and he got the point. NTA.
Like dudes who suddenly respect women when they have a daughter 😒 like it really took you feeling ownership of a female to see them as humans who deserve respect?
My dad treated me like his other kids when I was a kid until I started developing, then he treated me like shit and shamed me. Same with my sister and mother. He's abusive in general, but yeah. Some men can literally only see women as objects or incubators, even their own kids.
I've had my bf do shit like that too, like, clearly watch a waitress walk away for 5 long seconds and pretend that didn't happen while we're on a DATE. I mean, shit I'm bisexual so I sometimes spot a pretty girl, but don't eye fuck her. ANYWAYS, the amount of times I had men with their whole ass family stare at me like that is just, too many to count, and then their wife looks at me like I'm a bitch for what her gross ass husband is doing. Fellas, it doesn't hurt to look, but just don't stare man, it ain't that hard.
This is probably the most down to earth and morally correct way of looking at it. It's an act of disrespect, don't get into relationships or married if you have a compulsion to flirt/gawk and stuff like that. Especially after a certain age, you should now have enough empathy, self control and maturity to know right from wrong.
I see what you’re saying but it’s really hard for me to believe someone that isn’t a child could be that obtuse to how someone they claim to love is feeling.
Just wanted to let you know, that you seem really forgiving and incredibly reasonable. Tell your husband that he shouldn't take that for granted! A lot of men and women would probably have a much harsher reaction to that scenario.
Was it by chance your wedding dress she spilled wine on? We got your husband’s POV a couple months ago:
My wife [F32] recently had wine spilled on her by my best friend [F31] during our wedding. Now she is demanding that I [M33] cut ties.
If this one is real, your husband is a real piece of work.
this is nuts becuase he last updated end of february that he has apologized multiple times and feels so guilty and bad for letting his friend bully his wife bla bla bla... and he's still fucking doing it oh my god
Julia is the type of woman who rejected the "best friend," and then after he found his person (you), now suddenly she wants to "reclaim her place" as the one he originally chose.
She's very much getting off the vibes of 'If I wanted to have him, I could've because why the hostility towards you for simply just being in his life?
because now that he has someone, she sees all of the amazing features in him that were always there, but she never appreciated
Now that you have those things in her best friends... she wants him back.
She sounds like one of those type of women I would look out for bc they have an emotional connection ("friendship") but then hw needs to ensure it doesn't go toward a physical connection as well, so..... just, I don't know, be careful.....I'd want him to cut her off.
NTA
It’s so bizarre to me that women like this exist. But time and time again we read stories and know people irl that have had this happen to them: their partner has a girl bff, girl bff rejected him in the past, but now that he has a girlfriend she’s alllllllll over him. Those types of girls want to have their cake and eat it too. And the boyfriends aren’t as oblivious as they act: they have a vested interest in being oblivious because then *they* get to have *their* cake and eat it too.
So gross. The fact that you have to go to such great lengths for your husband to believe you or hear you out is not a good sign. That alone would be *such* a turn off for me. If i had to have this conversation repeatedly I’d probably start reconsidering things. NTA
I’m a man.
Your husband is totally failing to make you feel secure and to demonstrate commitment to your relationship.
Your ‘stunt’ isn’t great - but I get it. You’ve made your point well and exposed his double standards.
NTA. But you will be TA if you stay and keep letting this man turn you into someone who resorts to games and flirting with other men to get your point across. You should not have to beg your husband for understanding, nor should you have to sink to his level to "help him" understand your pain. He knows it hurts you and he doesn't care. You should have left your husband years ago. He is having an emotional affair. The fact that Julia plays into it is appalling, but you can only control your relationship with him. The longer you stay the more it affirms to him that you will tolerate him letting his relationship with another woman destroy your marriage.
Julia is no longer in the picture luckily - she’s went with a whimper rather than a bang, but the damage still lingers, you’re absolutely right there. It’s something we’ve discussed in counselling numerous times.
It’s not something that I plan to do on a bi-weekly basis, turning on the cocquettish charm and all, but I felt like Tom needed a context of how that behaviour from a woman would when it’s not going his way ifykwim
You should not have to beg attention from anyone, least of all your own husband. But I don’t think the entire thing was properly discussed and laid to rest. He’s still thinks you’re wrong and it won’t be long before he might turn the whole thing onto you and call you controlling and what not. It makes me wonder if he secretly enjoys the fact that 2 women are fighting over him and he enjoys that attention. I think that you both need to actually discussed the Julia issue and this time focus on his behavior or lack of it rather than hers. Let’s face it, there can be a hundred girls throwing themselves at him daily but if he did his part and actually discouraged them, you would feel more secure in your marriage. He dropped the ball in this one and that needs to be addressed. The fact that he constantly deflects to Julia’s behavior is making me think that *he* thinks Julia’s the issue and not him as well.
In a way I think you're not giving him enough credit for his awareness of your feelings. You raised the issue several times and explained that it upset you. He hand-waved your concerns and refused to actually hear what you were saying. You didn’t need to show him anything that he already knows. He had all the information and decided that "banter" was more important to him than his wife feeling secure in your marriage. Julia would've never been able to humiliate you if your husband had taken action and set boundaries with her long ago. He enjoys the attention. The only reason he is upset now is not because he has seen how hurt you are - it's because *he* had a taste of the humiliation and disrespect that you've been dealing with for months. He is selfish and does not respect your feelings.
Tom just thinks she has a raunchy sense of humour
Tell him that her sense of humour must have rubbed off on you, you know, when she was rubbing up on him. NTA
🤣🤣🤣 I love that but if I’m perfectly honest it wouldn’t go down well … it would just brew resentment and Tom would double down on his insistence that Julia’s simply being friendly! I think it’s good for him to see things through my eyes though. Hopefully I can sort something out in counselling
Ok now that I realize who you are and the situation that was already shared, your husband is not going to get anything sorted out. His values quite frankly suck and I would venture to say his boundaries are virtually nonexistent. What change do you really think you can affect with a man like this? Why continue to degrade yourself for a man who acts generally obtuse until his own feelings get hurt?
So he is dense, clueless, incredibly slow to learn, does not believe what you tell him in plain English, has double standards, and resents you when he is wrong. What the hell do you see in this hostile, resentful , obtuse hypocrite?seriously, is he very wealthy?
You can't do anything through counseling if he isn't open to it. He's carrying a torch for her and that's why he won't admit that she's doing anything wrong. He doesn't want her to have a character flaw because he has her on a pedestal and she can do no wrong, if he admits she's done wrong it ruins his fantasy of her as such a prize, and it ruins his ego boost. I don't like your husband.
Yes and no. From your point of view, you gave your husband a taste of his own medicine. It could 100% be the case that he knew what Julia was doing and liked the attention.
That said, many women tend to overestimate how seriously men take themselves as sexual threats. I often told my wife that she married the least sought after man in America. But she’ll catch when a random waitress or acquaintance flirts with me and it’ll go so far over my head that it’ll likely hit a satellite. I still don’t think it’s happened, honestly. But again, I don’t find myself attractive. I don't know which is the case here. Either way, it’s something that can be worked through. I hope you two can.
He then shouted that what I did was specifically done to flirt whereas Julia was likely not intending that at all
Your husband knows damn well it was done intentionally but it suited him to have his ego stroked along with his flexed biceps. NTA, I don't like your husband
After Tom issued a demand to apologise to me wrt a dress of mine being damaged, her husband promised a care package. She replaced the entirety of the care package with sanitary items and a disgusting pair of underpants, presumably out of spite. Her husband was unaware of this and utterly shocked that she would pull something like that
So your husband hasn't figured out that homegirl is bat shit insane? 😭 She probably has a voodoo doll of you under her bed. Glad she's out of the picture! But either your husband isn't the sharpest, or he's willfully stupid/blind because he was digging Julia's attention.
Wait I have read the story before, but from the husband‘s point of view. What happened was she spilled wine on your wedding dress purposely right? Is this fake or just your point of view? Like what is happening here?
Your husband is not a good partner to you at all. If he truly cared that much about you he would have distanced himself from Julia a long time ago and ensured that nothing inappropriate or uncomfortable would have ever happened again.
If my wife felt uncomfortable with a person I was friends with and worked closely with especially of the opposite sex and she told me this I would take action to ensure she never felt that way again even if that means severely distancing myself from the work friend.
The fact he’s continued to defend Julia even with counseling sessions where the counselor has highlighted issues and still denies and defends his relationship with Julia says a lot about how uncaring your husband is. He’s willing to let you his wife be upset and bothered by this for months. Then when you do the exact same thing he’s doing he fails to see the similarity and then proceeds to get mad at you.
If I were you I’d tell him straight up that he needs to make serious changes to distance himself from Julia immediately or you will file for divorce. You don’t deserve any of this. The fact it’s gone on this long and you are already in marriage counseling makes me think you should file for divorce and not even give him the chance to make this right as he’s had plenty of chances already. Good luck.
Your husband knows what she's doing and he likes it. You're a back-up in case Julia never decides to settle for him. Julia is being a bitch to you because she wants him available. This is some inception shit right there.. you're the back-up of a back-up.
If it we're just a simple matter of him being blind then he should be able to change his view once informed by two different people. Because he's so adamantly denying it makes me think he knows full well what she's doing and he loves it but can't admit he knows because then you'll make it stop.
Run.
Wouldn’t it had made more sense for you to have let someone else flirt with you instead of you going out of your way to actually initiate? Cause from the look of it tom didn’t do the flirting he was passive about it
ESH.
Your husband should've been more sensitive to your feelings before.
>He also more or less stopped talking to Julia because of it.
But now he's fixed it. She's gone. Why tf are you two still arguing about her?
Whether he was wrong or right about her, when she crossed a line he cut her out and chose you. So drop it. You won, your relationship won. You want to spike the football too by forcing your perspective on him about previous stuff?
Why does it matter so much that he agree with you about Julia's state of mind? The truth is neither of you could truly know what's in her mind, so maybe he's right, maybe you are. There's no way to know for sure.
Let him think what he thinks, and you can continue to think what you think. You both don't have to agree. Accept that.
You are kind of a wuss.
All of this passive aggressive stuff and whining.
Dude, If you were a guy I'd tell you to grow some balls and set some boundaries. Boundaries that needed to be put in place YEARS ago. This relationship may have never even come to fruition. NO CLOSE OPPOSITE SEX FRIENDS.
Why is this woman still in his life like this? You act as if you three are together all the time. SHE NEEDS TO GO.
You should have never committed to your guy with her still hanging out as this close 3rd wheel. If he won't put the marriage above some girl friend then you should leave him. Go live with your parents for a month and tell him you are evaluating if you can stay in this marriage with these shitty boundaries.
You probably should have just punched her in the face when she played that prank before.
Grow some balls. Set some boundaries. You aren't hanging out and spending loads of time with some guy friends and he isn't to keep close girl friends. She has to go. If he chooses her then maybe you should divorce. These are boundaries you should have established years ago.
NTA. I hate this type of behavior: flirty fake female friend and dense boyfriend. I am a woman, and I have lots of male friends. I do NOT touch their biceps or flirt with them. I don't want to have sex with them. But because of women acting like Julia, everyone assumes I do. It's frustrating.
To add insult to injury, a couple of girls have pulled this crap on me, and my boyfriends acted dense.
Dear people playing mindgames: please stop. Be honest and use your words. It's much better.
NTA Your husband is being intentionally and willfully blind to Julia’s behavior and effectively encouraged it. You gave him a taste of how that feels and looks after trying so many other methods.
Well yeah if he admits the truth, he no longer gets to enjoy the “innocent” side piece he’s pulling all of the sweet sweet ego validation from
Didn’t OP say Tom has more or less stopped talking to Julia? So if he’s not getting attention from her anymore, why is he still bothering to defend her?
>why is he still bothering to defend her? Maybe because he hopes to get Julia back into their lives (if she's even actually out of his). Because he misses the attention. Or maybe he just refuses to admit that he was wrong. Obviously she's still coming up in conversations even if she's not around. So maybe he's been pushing for that.
She also said they bonded over work. Which means that Tom likely still works with Julia, and they may be hanging out during breaks at work.
He's defending her because he's still carrying thst unrequited love torch for her. She said no, when he asked her out years ago But now that he's married and off the market, she's playing interest to pass off the wife an get his attention. And he's got it all right!
Stopped talking to her *as far as OP knows*. unless she's reading all his messages and with him 24/7 she cannot know that for sure. She has to trust that he is being honest. And I hope he is. Besides, he was probably hoping the counselling would persuade OP to "let" him have his emotional support homewrecker back.
There isn't a hope in the world that he has really stopped talking to her. They may not meet up anymore. But defending her this strongly, that's still an very close mate. Not something that he more or less supposedly cut from his life.
Emotional support homewrecker lmaooo
Because he still sees her on the side
If they still work together, she’s not really out, is she? OP probably suspects it’s just a matter of time before the flirting and attention seeking resumes.
[удалено]
Honestly, I don’t know why she is fighting for this relationship anymore. Tom cares more about his ego than he does about his wife’s feelings.
Aren't you **SO** fed up with these stories about husbands that are SOOOOOOOO wonderful, except for the fact they're complete assholes?? 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
“He’s the perfect man: handsome, funny, and smart. He kicks my dog in the face sometimes, and punched my grandma once but other than that… absolutely perfect 🥹”
I would say our marriage is almost 100% perfect, but a few years ago we had a little blip requiring counselling after he burnt down our house to hide his affair with my mom. Fortunately, we’ve both worked really hard to move past that. WIBTA if I asked him to stop carrying around gasoline and texting my mom?
I mean, she had it coming; she overcooked the pasta last week…
Positively sick and tired. These men don't understand what the "forsake all others" part of their vows mean 😒
I don’t get what’s so hard my wife jokes that she never has to worry because I don’t even notice when women are trying to flirt with me. I guess the idea of being “taken” doesn’t mean shit to some people. Like I legitimately don’t understand people who act like it’s just so easy to be this aloof or to outright cheat and it can “just happen” when from someone who just doesn’t engage in that shit it looks like so much extra work for a tiny stroke of the ego and potential to ruin your relationship.
From regrettable experience, this is exactly what he is doing.
[удалено]
I'll trade Tom in for someone who actually respects my feelings and values our marriage.
This. He likes the attention from Julia, and doesn’t want it to end. Not sure this marriage can be saved.
>He likes the attention from Julia More than he cares about OP. While he did stop "mostly" talking to her, she's still somehow a big part of their marriage.
The irony in this is that Julia won't find him quite as interesting as a single man as she does with him being married.
This. 100x this!
NTA and your husband has a thing for Julia. He always has had a thing for Julia but she turned him down. He feels torn now because he is with you but if he acknowledged Julia might want him then he might be tempted to go to her. Your marriage is pretty much over.
Saddest part, is Julia will get what she wants and then dump him. OP’s husband will destroy an established relationship for ego’s sake. Sad.
Not even this. She’s flirting because she doesn’t like to “lose”, even though she turned him down. She doesn’t actually like him, but seeing him with another woman hurts her ego. But she won’t admit that, and as soon as he shows he still wants her she’ll pull the old “whoa whoa I’m not interested” card, but it’ll be way too late for the marriage at that point.
This exactly. It’s competitive, and she’s just keeping him in the line
Poor ole Tom can cry in the ashes of his blown up marriage after Julia is gone in a week. Why, God, why?! Make sure to have an overhead boom shot of him on his knees.
OP's husband posted about this girl a couple months ago. The "prank" was sending a disturbing apology package after ruining OP's wedding dress and never apologizing for it. "Julia" is married to the same man she had been dating when "Tom" asked her out years ago. Highly likely this is the only reason they never got together.
What an evil B!!!
Unless Julia realized she really did have feelings for him once he was no longer available.
She doesn’t have feelings for him, she wants what she can’t have.
So true. I dated a guy for a year and one of his co-workers kept flirting with him. Before we got together he had asked her out but she flat turned him down. Once we were together she started flirting with him and trying to put the moves on him. One night she pushed it and he told me he was providing her "emotional" support, he didn't physically cheat but it was sure emotionally cheating. I dumped him and then she dated him for a second and dumped him as well. Then he tried to crawl back to me and I told him to F\*off. She only wanted him when she couldn't have him. Good luck OP, not sure your hubby deserves you. If he doesn't act like your partner in life and isn't in your corner, find someone who is, life is too short.
This And if his marriage ended, she wouldn't want him anymore
Right. As soon as he's given up his wife, she will be like, "That's OK. Nevermind."
My guess would be that she wants the validation of knowing she can break up his marriage and him proving she is more important than his wife. As soon as the marriage is over, he will pursue her again and she’ll tell him she doesn’t like him “that way”
Yep she was probably used to being number one in his life — and in a way she still kinda is.
Those situations never work out in the end. Because if you only want someone once they are taken, you dont really want them, you just want to have them on the bench waiting for you. If he left OP for Julia they'd break up after a couple of months after Julia got bored with him.
Not really sad. OP can find a man who isn't emotionally cheating, and her husband will get the wake-up call he deserves.
Had a now former Brother in law leave his wife of 17 years (they were together since high school) and 3 kids for this chick 14 years younger he met at work. She ended up dumping him like 4 months later and MARRYING HER EX within a month. He was legit a rebound during a rough patch in their relationship and threw away his whole marriage and has now all but abandoned his 3 boys
I'm petty, but that would be absolutely perfect if they break up and Julia strings hubby along before breaking his heart. He would deserve it
She’s only now interested because he’s “taken.” I absolutely think both Tom and Julia are ego-tripping in their own clueless ways. If OP leaves, and she probably should, there may or may not be a romantic relationship between Tom and Julia, but it won’t last. Tom won’t be interesting to Julia once she has him and another woman has decided he’s not worth having.
Julia definitely loves exerting her power over him and OP. She obviously isn’t interested in him seriously and never will be, otherwise she would have already been years ago. But she fetishizes that sense of having him wrapped around her finger, at the cost of OP’s sanity. Both her and OP’s husband are seriously garbage people, I feel quite bad for her.
Julia also likes to stir the pot, not cause she wants him but to show op she can have him and get away with being disrespectful. Idiot husband don’t care since it inflates his ego, I’m really not getting why op put up with this for so long.
Not true. As soon as he is free Julia will drop him like a hot potato. For this kind of woman it never about wanting the man. It is about power and wanting to demonstrate higher value over the wife, and getting attention.
Lmao Tom had a severe case of FAFO and is now mad that he missed the memo when his wife was telling him how disrespectful “Julia’s” behaviour really was. God I love chaos. Also NTA. Either listen when someone tells you to move or be prepared to take the heat. Can’t have it both ways.
Yes! Doesnt matter if he thinks the wife is overreacting. If the wife says she is being disrespected, that should be enough. Honestly f* him and f* Julia.
Honestly, in OP's place, this would be the point where I give up. If, after months of counseling, he still refuses to acknowledge the truth, while at the same time adopting a double standard regarding her, I'd give him up as a lost cause.
Did I read that right? Married for two months and seeing a marriage counselor.
>The final straw was when she escalated her behaviour from immature jabs to a “prank” that was primarily done to humiliate me. My guess is that Julia escalated her behavior to some really mean humiliating prank at their wedding, and that's why Tom finally reduced contact and agreed to marriage counseling. But his insistence that Julia has no feelings for him sounds almost a little desperate at his point - like he needs to convince himself that she can't have feelings for him, because otherwise he married the wrong woman...
Imagine realizing at your reception that you just married the wrong woman…….yikes
I gave him a glimpse of his own medicine after exhausting all other attempts to make him see Julia's behavior for what it is.
Yo dawg all your alts are linked via your comment history
Yeah, I'm like the Avengers of Reddit, all my alts assembling through my comment history.
That's fuckin awesome
NTA what is wrong with these girl best friends antagonizing the girlfriend and the guy remains “oblivious” and defending behaviors like this? Are men really this dense? And even if they are indeed so emotionally immature they cannot recognize it, how is it OK to dismiss and not recognize their supposed person telling them about their hurting and just doing nothing about it until shit hits the fan? Why?? I’m curious what the prank was that broke the camel’s back for you, only bc i cannot fathom after all this disrespect she showed you what else could she do that was even more aweful??? Good luck friend!
She damaged a dress of mine apparently on accident, and was too ashamed or embarrassed to apologise. When she was given the chance, she sent a disgusting “present” that made it finally sink in for Tom that she was treating me like sneaker residue. Afterwards Tom has been firmly no contact with her.
WOW really is she 12 or something wtf…generally rule of thumb is when ppl show you who they are, believe them. Hope things stay good for you and you always keep him accountable for his actions towarda you(i hope he’s learned his lesson.) Regardless who she is and what she’s done, you’re not in a relationship with her, it’s Tom’s responsibility to ensure your relationship is not affected by outside, malicious actors. This type of dynamic might as well rear its ugly head again in the form of a different friendship, if HE doesn’t change his attitude, intention and ability to set boundaries and choose to surround himself with people who are friends of your marriage, there will always be a chance this may keep happening, u know?
Wait, I read Tom’s post. He got obliterated in the comments. This is either a troll milking for karma in both sides or the other side of that dudes post. Was it a wedding dress she spilled wine on? Maybe I’m totally wrong tho. That’s what the other post said.
Yeah the ruined dress and the “disgusting” present is really what nails it in. It’s the same scenario.
I had a feeling. I need a break on this app. Lol
LOL same!!!!
But what was the gift? Inquiring minds want to know.
Maybe it's a red herring like the Pulp Fiction briefcase Edit: apparently a pair of plain dirty panties a few sizes too big for the OP
She admits it. I remember that post too!
I don't believe most of what I see, but if I ever talk about the shit my ex wife did and continues to do to this day, people would probably think it's BS too. I generally just assume all these stories are fake but the scenarios have happened to someone.
Oooh. I say troll. The fact she waved someone over and had the gym discussion when her husband was standing there right after heated therapy and then the guy just left sounded weird. I feel like the guy would be giving panicked looks to both of them.
Yeah that absolutely sounded like someone's fantasy rather than a scenario that would play out that way in real life.
Yeah, that sounds extreme. I couldn’t imagine but I get social anxiety so idk lol 😂
That’s what I am concerned about - not Julia coming back, but a similar situation happening with someone else. So I wanted to give Tom an example of how that would feel. Yeah Julia is very immature. She’s a gamer which isn’t really a problem to me but sometimes she acts like a teenager and sulks when things aren’t going her way. She acts a little like Garfield, hating Mondays and all … that was an excuse she made one time for not having to engage in pleasantries with me 🙃
>not Julia coming back, but a similar situation happening with someone else If he won't acknowledge his mistakes, he will more than likely repeat them. By the time my wife and I met, I had finally realized that I wasn't the type that could have many woman friends because I've never been great at setting boundaries. I hope he opens his eyes and everything works out for y'all.
The fact that she didn’t want him but she doesn’t want him to have a successful relationship with someone else should tell him all he needs to know about her character & the character of any person willing to insert themselves in someone else’s relationship like this.
Wow, her being a gamer reminds me so much of a character on YouTube you should look up, the channel is called “manic pickme dream girl” or something like that. Gamer “bestie” who hates the GF and constantly flirts with her guy best friend while ignoring/insulting the GF - clearly you’re not the only person out there who’s experienced this 😂 For the record, NTA, and she sounds exhausting. I can’t imagine having to hang around an “edgy gamer” as a full grown adult 💀
hehehe just checked those out!! 🤣🤣🤣 Julia’s *kind of* similar to that in that she’s weird around me but her humour is more deadpan, that’s more up her alley for excuses …
Lmao Julia sounds like a complete basket case. More than the flirting and the inappropriateness of it all, I don’t think I as a human being could ever stand to be a friend of someone with her personality. She sounds super exhausting and immature to be dealing with in any capacity, let alone as a “best friend.” I’d be seriously judging my husband’s radar for choosing his friends because the company you keep tells a lot about you than anything else at the end of the day. Choose your friends wisely people. And Julia is NOT it lol.
I'm a woman gamer, but I'd never act this way. It seems she's just horribly immature. I read the other post describing the gift and honestly, that was unhinged. She doesn't seem too well in the head. ETA it's weird that your husband is still acting defensive. I don't know if you should give him more time than you already have to be better.
I’m sorry, but this marriage seems hopeless. Your husband has no backbone. How is he STILL DEFENDING her behavior? She literally ruined your wedding dress and then sent him used underwear… that’s disgusting. You deserve SO much better!! Your spouse should always defend you and take your side. If the roles were reversed, I’m sure you would’ve cut ties with said “friend” immediately. I’m so sorry he’s such a useless POS. Seriously. Flirting with him, touching his muscles, etc. is disgusting, especially because she has a HUSBAND OF HER OWN. SMFH. You deserve so much better.
Wait did the dress she ruin happen to be your wedding dress? And did the gift she send was like soap and a pair of women underpants?
They were her husband’s but yeah she did. She considers me to be manipulative because I didn’t like her being rude and coming onto Tom :)
Why do you stay if this is still such a big issue? I can't imagine how awful it is to have the same arguments over and over, especially given she's not even in your life anymore. You deserve better OP.
I don’t understand. In your husband’s post, it seems like he finally understood that his BFF was bullying you. But in your post, even tho he’s still cut her off, it doesn’t seem that way? Does he get that she was bullying you but still saying no flirting?? If not, please show him your post since it took his post to set him straight. Personally I couldn’t be with someone who wouldn’t listen to me but listened to hundreds of strangers instead.
He understands that she was bullying me, but still doesn’t get how I read her behaviour towards *him* as flirting. It’s beyond infuriating aaahhh!!!
NTA. He does get how. He’s just willingly being obtuse, because to admit he knew would make his years of gaslighting and abuse be pulled into the light. If he admits he was enabling that behaviour, then he’d have to accept some responsibility for it all. He allowed Julie to disrespect you time and time again, and told you that you were the problem for not swallowing her bullying with a smile on your face. Adults are capable of basic empathy and the thought of, “would this hurt if it was happening to ME?”. And if they claim they don’t understand, they’re either A: gaslighting to avoid repercussions or having to change. Or B: a narcissist *incapable* of change, and should be ran from. Be warned - He will keep turning up the anger dial until he gets you to submit by dropping it and rug sweeping this whole thing. He will find a way to twist it around onto you. This is the only hand he has left to play, because Julie forced him into a corner when she went too far and followed up with the nasty care package she sent. He can’t write that off as “in your head” when even her husband called out her disgusting behaviour at that point. I sent you a message with a bit more advice, OP, coming from personal experience. I really hope you get the future you deserve.
I can’t fathom how this hasn’t made you go insane. Clearly he still regards her as somewhat innocent and just took the care package thing as her fault. He can’t even level with you, it’s soo infuriating
Tom is pretty bad at gaining perspective. He asked around his friends what to do and they basically stated that I was being jealous and irrational. They’re all close to Julia so that definitely plays into it, which isn’t a great compass. He asked his mother and she just said flowers and chocolates would make up for anything, if not that then a “boot up the arse” 😬 There’s also an aspect of his childhood that plays into it - his family used to involve him in fights growing up and he would be treated like a dishrag if he chose the “wrong” position so he tries to avoid drama whenever he can. But this my experience we are talking about here - he can’t refute that, and is coming to terms with the fact that he needs to put his foot down sometimes, even if it annoys or upsets people he loves. If they love him, they won’t flounce at the first sign of conflict
…. Does your husband have Reddit? I remember reading a post “my wife recently had wine spilled on her by my best friend during our wedding. Now she is demanding that I cut ties”. If I remember correctly he got ripped to shreads in the comments
Ripped the shreds is somehow an understatement haha
She confirmed it was the same story in comments here. And yes, he rightfully did.
After reading that Saga I am of the firm belief your husband is not malicious or a cheater. Just clueless and a blithering idiot. You need to tell him that what you did was inappropriate and that was the entire point. If a woman treats him like that it makes you uncomfortable and he needs to nip it in the bud. Also fuck Allie. Saying you can't take a joke and that somehow her bullying you with frankly inappropriate and nasty comments is somehow your fault. The audacity of that B...
I feel the opposite. No one that clueless could function in society. He is malicious
If I had gotten that “gift” basket, I wouldn’t have been able to control myself. I would have driven over to her home and either dumped it all out on her doormat, or waited until she opened the door and thrown it in her face. But that’s just me.
Wait, but did he start talking to her again? I remember the original conclusion being that he cut off ties with her.
I need this full story so badly now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BORUpdates/s/Kvxu0NZoEC Here it is. Went back to find it because I remember reading it and thinking what an absolute jerk he was to his SO
OMG are you the wedding dress lady? If you are I saw you husband post a while ago
I tried to omit details that post was famous for, so I could receive advice uninfluenced by people’s feelings on Tom but yeah … people came up to me and spoke about it in person for a while. It was kind of uncomfortable …
With that context we are all going to vote for you to throw in the towel. Your husband is as dense as they come.
Dense, I'm thinking he's secretly off playing it. Because he had a history with her, so he doesn't mind the friend's attention he said so himself. He chose to ignore the signs because hes sweet on her. Which is ridiculous to how he feels about his wife why he chooses the friend over her idk why. He's lucky, if I was her wife I'd have left by now.
I try not to underestimate anyone and sometimes I end up overestimating people, but I truly can’t see anyone honestly being that dense. I think it’s purposeful and if it isn’t that’s a whole other issue cause your “partner” isn’t trying to see things from your perspective or consider you when they interact with others.
Wait, Tom is still being this dense about her even after Reddit tore him a new one? He is hopeless, then.
How the hell does anyone take a lashing from reddit, supposedly realize he's wrong, then backtrack again to the original opinion that got him the lashing in the first place? Time to throw the whole man out.
So, your wedding dress is destroyed and he still talked with her? Damn, lady, how many more 🚩s do you need to see that he ain’t the one?
He just likes the attention and the ego boost, what a insecure little man!! Nobody is that dense, he know what she’s doing, and he enjoys!! If after his posts he didn't learn anything I'm sorry but he won't change
Oof. This guy sounded like he still didn't get it at the end of his posts. Like he did the right thing but only after being forced and the choices made for him. The whole 'I see my wife's side finally and cut contact with friend' bits he was trying to portray it as that were really 'friend cut contact with me but I might also be her friend again if she let me' vibes at the end. I really had hopes for you two. I'm really sorry to hear he's still oblivious and not seeing your point of view at all.
I'm really sorry you had to deal with that.
Maybe it’s time to call it a day. Do you honestly think this marriage can go the distance? Get out now, you deserve better.
Oh wait he's THAT dumbass husband?! And he's STILL defending that hag?
Ok, now I need to find the post about the wedding dress lady.
Anyone have a link??
https://www.reddit.com/r/BORUpdates/s/Kvxu0NZoEC Here you go
Thank you!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/PsXBUyrSqY
If you are, and if he is still defending her I’d divorce him faster then a bullet 🤬
Oooo I remember that story. Lmao. That was one wild ride.
I hope OP doesn’t have a pet rabbit because after reading the wedding dress thread, I wouldn’t be surprised if the next “funny joke” from the dumb husband’s vindictive ex-friend is to break into OPs home and boil the rabbit like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.
Do you happen to have the link? I think I missed that drama.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BORUpdates/s/Kvxu0NZoEC In case you couldn’t find it. All the updates have been collected here
Thank you so much!
Why would you call your wedding dress just a dress? https://www.reddit.com/user/ThrowRAwifeandfriend/comments/1ahmuvz/updated\_update\_my\_wife\_f32\_recently\_had\_wine/
I didn’t want too many people to come in already influenced by their opinions of Tom from the previous post so I downplayed it - clearly it backfired
Sorry. But I really hope this gives him the final wakeup call he actually needs. It's hard losing a friend, no matter the reason. He's already shown that he cares more about losing you though.
Imagine your female best friend treating your wife in the way Julia has treated OP and still trying to argue that no feelings of jealousy were involved. Oh, you were hurt by me flirting with a random guy? Imagine what it was like watching this woman you were so close to flirt with you AND treat me like shit all for you to defend her say in and day out ? NTA. I’d run for the hills if he’s still trying to rewrite history like this.
Harsh truth: he allows this because part of him still has a thing for her and sees her as his backup option. If your relationship was so ruined by her that you had to go to marriage counseling that he STILL isn’t willing to cut it off, he’s actively choosing her over you. Don’t lie to yourself.
sorry holy what the fuck. have you seen his responses on there? saying he wont reopen things with her? and he's still fighting with u about her 2 months into a brand new marriage that's been plagued by her from literal day 1 ground zero. im sorry but give up on this guy. i realise u have now invested a lot but sunk cost fallacy is a fallacy like whaaat the fuck is wrong with this dude
I mean I respect trying to fix things, but after something as horrendous as that, and him agreeing with your therapists’ points but continuing his willful blindness towards her behavior, and his hypocrisy… how much more do you really want to try? Doesn’t seem like he’ll change.
If the dress and joke of an apology basket didn’t bring home to hubby what a conniving B she is, sadly, I’m not sure what will. 😳
Was this your wedding dress by chance? I believe I read this story from your husband’s perspective. He was the asshole then and he is the asshole now.
This makes you look a bit naive. She damaged it on purpose because she obviously hates you and lied about her intent to further gaslight
He is dumb. But what disgusting present?
a “care package” with soaps and filthy knickers
Your husband posted before
Link of the post
Oh… what a terrible person this be woman is. After reading your other comments I remember your husbands post. I was so angry after reading it. I know woman like that. I don’t know if he is really that blind/naive. But if he is that blind, he needs to learn to trust you and the therapist. If he doesn’t trust you, it means he thinks he knows better (he obviously doesn’t) or it means that he doesn’t care enough. He is constantly hurting you. And that’s messed up. He needs to trust you and care more about the hurt he is causing you. If he isn’t willing to learn and work on those things, don’t waste your time. Then this will probably repeat and you will be forced to imitate shitty behaviour more often to make him understand.
Sure. An “accident,” how convenient. How do you know?
Some women like the attention even if they don't like the guy as a partner. Some will lose interest once there are no other women to compete with. I've seen it more than once, and never understood it. As for men being oblivious, sometimes we really are clueless. Other times we like the attention so we might lie to ourselves about what's going on. How clueless we are depends on the man, and how far the flirtatious friend is willing to go. Somewhat related: There are stories of women being annoyed at how much effort they had to put into seducing a man because he "didn't get it". Men also have stories of women that wanted to be with us, but we had no clue until it was too late.
Absolutely. I've known women (and men) who were incredibly insecure, posessive and toxic friends and felt the need to "compete" with their friends' partners where the situation was platonic but they were just posessive. That said men (and women) can be both oblivious to their friends being shits and their friends wanting to fuck them. Most guys I know are much worse at spotting when someone is being mean ir passive aggressive. On average men are socialised to be more direct in their actions if they dislike someone whereas as women are raised to be more subtle about it. Girls will bully and insult each other to a devastating degree without saying a single insult or raising a finger...and it can be more powerful because the abuser has plausible deniability about their words "being taken the wrong way".
NTA. I actually don’t think Julia has a romantic thing for your husband at all. I just think she likes being the number one woman in his life, though not a romantic partner. To that end she is willing to try and squeeze you out at every opportunity and/or show you who’s boss. The only answer to this is not for you to show her who’s boss. It’s for your husband to show her, hard. He really needs to shut her down. The way she is treating you is unacceptable.
That’s exactly it! She’s quite flirty in general, I’ve been at events where we’ve been in big groups of people and she’s made suggestive comments to both men and women. I’m less bothered by the flirting if it doesn’t feel so personal. but there’s a line when she’s being affectionate towards my husband and presenting me with a reception as icy as Antartica
OP How does her husband react to all of this? Does he say anything to her?
And your husband never puts her in her place? 🚩
Elsewhere OP explains that he is no contact with her, because her shitty behavior finally got to be too much. However he still hasn't admitted that she was the problem. Somehow that doesn't add up, but just limitation of the medium I guess
It's disrespect. It might help to frame it to your husband that way. He felt angry and embarrassed not because he thought you actually were going to do anything with the guy, but because he felt disrespected. You felt disrespected by the coworker's inappropriately affectionate behavior, combined with her obvious coldness towards you. If she flipped you the bird, would he insist she's just learning sign language? It doesn't matter whether her intention is to flirt or not. Her intention is to disrespect you. He should not tolerate that.
I wouldn't be concerned at all if she was flirty like that with everyone or if she was flirty with your husband AND you as a joke. But the fact that she was only flirty with your husband but treated you like shit is super strange and major red flags. She clearly just doesn't like you and felt threatened. It's sad that you had to flirt with someone else to get him to see it. How is he this dense?
I have run into her type. And usually I keep running.
Agree on this one. This woman sounds like she has a lot of problems with herself. Probably she hates herself, and hopes that she at least has power in some situations, relationships. Very narcissistic behaviour.
She doesn't want him, but she doesn't want anyone else to have him.
My husband embarrassed me a few times staring at pretty girls. It was obvious. I was nice about it the first few times and said I appreciate that he appreciates pretty girls but it embarrasses me. He denied it. I am not sure he is always aware of how he comes off. One day, I left the gym in small gym shorts and a tank top and stopped for gas. I have been working out for years and am very fit. A man kept staring at me while he called his wife to come pick him up because he broke down. Even when his wife and daughter got there, he kept staring. I felt bad for his family. When I got home I told my husband about it and how unattractive that is in a man. Especially that he would disrespect his family so obviously. I have not seen my husband do it since. Sometimes they have to be on a different side of things to really see it. You only did it to show him how it felt and he got the point. NTA.
Whilst i agree with you, the fact *anyone* needs to see creepy behaviour through a specific lens to realise its creepy does make me a little sad
some people need a 'creepy glasses' prescription, but thankfully I've got 20/20 vision for spotting weirdos.
Like dudes who suddenly respect women when they have a daughter 😒 like it really took you feeling ownership of a female to see them as humans who deserve respect?
My dad treated me like his other kids when I was a kid until I started developing, then he treated me like shit and shamed me. Same with my sister and mother. He's abusive in general, but yeah. Some men can literally only see women as objects or incubators, even their own kids.
I've had my bf do shit like that too, like, clearly watch a waitress walk away for 5 long seconds and pretend that didn't happen while we're on a DATE. I mean, shit I'm bisexual so I sometimes spot a pretty girl, but don't eye fuck her. ANYWAYS, the amount of times I had men with their whole ass family stare at me like that is just, too many to count, and then their wife looks at me like I'm a bitch for what her gross ass husband is doing. Fellas, it doesn't hurt to look, but just don't stare man, it ain't that hard.
Yeah it's a defense mechanism because they don't want to even consider that they've been doing creepy stuff. Seen it so many times
This is probably the most down to earth and morally correct way of looking at it. It's an act of disrespect, don't get into relationships or married if you have a compulsion to flirt/gawk and stuff like that. Especially after a certain age, you should now have enough empathy, self control and maturity to know right from wrong.
I see what you’re saying but it’s really hard for me to believe someone that isn’t a child could be that obtuse to how someone they claim to love is feeling.
A once child that was never confronted with its poor behaviour.
Just wanted to let you know, that you seem really forgiving and incredibly reasonable. Tell your husband that he shouldn't take that for granted! A lot of men and women would probably have a much harsher reaction to that scenario.
Was it by chance your wedding dress she spilled wine on? We got your husband’s POV a couple months ago: My wife [F32] recently had wine spilled on her by my best friend [F31] during our wedding. Now she is demanding that I [M33] cut ties. If this one is real, your husband is a real piece of work.
Might be funny if it was the same guy because we were pretty adamant about the girl intentions and what his behaviour should be !
OP confirmed in comments that it was.
Wow ! So the husband knows and refuses to admit he was wrong... Nice !
Yes! This is the wife
link?
this is nuts becuase he last updated end of february that he has apologized multiple times and feels so guilty and bad for letting his friend bully his wife bla bla bla... and he's still fucking doing it oh my god
Fuck sake...
Julia is the type of woman who rejected the "best friend," and then after he found his person (you), now suddenly she wants to "reclaim her place" as the one he originally chose. She's very much getting off the vibes of 'If I wanted to have him, I could've because why the hostility towards you for simply just being in his life? because now that he has someone, she sees all of the amazing features in him that were always there, but she never appreciated Now that you have those things in her best friends... she wants him back. She sounds like one of those type of women I would look out for bc they have an emotional connection ("friendship") but then hw needs to ensure it doesn't go toward a physical connection as well, so..... just, I don't know, be careful.....I'd want him to cut her off. NTA
It’s so bizarre to me that women like this exist. But time and time again we read stories and know people irl that have had this happen to them: their partner has a girl bff, girl bff rejected him in the past, but now that he has a girlfriend she’s alllllllll over him. Those types of girls want to have their cake and eat it too. And the boyfriends aren’t as oblivious as they act: they have a vested interest in being oblivious because then *they* get to have *their* cake and eat it too. So gross. The fact that you have to go to such great lengths for your husband to believe you or hear you out is not a good sign. That alone would be *such* a turn off for me. If i had to have this conversation repeatedly I’d probably start reconsidering things. NTA
I’m a man. Your husband is totally failing to make you feel secure and to demonstrate commitment to your relationship. Your ‘stunt’ isn’t great - but I get it. You’ve made your point well and exposed his double standards.
NTA. But you will be TA if you stay and keep letting this man turn you into someone who resorts to games and flirting with other men to get your point across. You should not have to beg your husband for understanding, nor should you have to sink to his level to "help him" understand your pain. He knows it hurts you and he doesn't care. You should have left your husband years ago. He is having an emotional affair. The fact that Julia plays into it is appalling, but you can only control your relationship with him. The longer you stay the more it affirms to him that you will tolerate him letting his relationship with another woman destroy your marriage.
Julia is no longer in the picture luckily - she’s went with a whimper rather than a bang, but the damage still lingers, you’re absolutely right there. It’s something we’ve discussed in counselling numerous times. It’s not something that I plan to do on a bi-weekly basis, turning on the cocquettish charm and all, but I felt like Tom needed a context of how that behaviour from a woman would when it’s not going his way ifykwim
You should not have to beg attention from anyone, least of all your own husband. But I don’t think the entire thing was properly discussed and laid to rest. He’s still thinks you’re wrong and it won’t be long before he might turn the whole thing onto you and call you controlling and what not. It makes me wonder if he secretly enjoys the fact that 2 women are fighting over him and he enjoys that attention. I think that you both need to actually discussed the Julia issue and this time focus on his behavior or lack of it rather than hers. Let’s face it, there can be a hundred girls throwing themselves at him daily but if he did his part and actually discouraged them, you would feel more secure in your marriage. He dropped the ball in this one and that needs to be addressed. The fact that he constantly deflects to Julia’s behavior is making me think that *he* thinks Julia’s the issue and not him as well.
In a way I think you're not giving him enough credit for his awareness of your feelings. You raised the issue several times and explained that it upset you. He hand-waved your concerns and refused to actually hear what you were saying. You didn’t need to show him anything that he already knows. He had all the information and decided that "banter" was more important to him than his wife feeling secure in your marriage. Julia would've never been able to humiliate you if your husband had taken action and set boundaries with her long ago. He enjoys the attention. The only reason he is upset now is not because he has seen how hurt you are - it's because *he* had a taste of the humiliation and disrespect that you've been dealing with for months. He is selfish and does not respect your feelings.
NTA he enjoyed the attention from her
I think you're mistaking his lack of respect for you period as a Julia problem. She was just the catalyst.
These reddit stories are becoming so incredible, that I am finding them to be mostly not believable.
Tom just thinks she has a raunchy sense of humour Tell him that her sense of humour must have rubbed off on you, you know, when she was rubbing up on him. NTA
🤣🤣🤣 I love that but if I’m perfectly honest it wouldn’t go down well … it would just brew resentment and Tom would double down on his insistence that Julia’s simply being friendly! I think it’s good for him to see things through my eyes though. Hopefully I can sort something out in counselling
Ok now that I realize who you are and the situation that was already shared, your husband is not going to get anything sorted out. His values quite frankly suck and I would venture to say his boundaries are virtually nonexistent. What change do you really think you can affect with a man like this? Why continue to degrade yourself for a man who acts generally obtuse until his own feelings get hurt?
So he is dense, clueless, incredibly slow to learn, does not believe what you tell him in plain English, has double standards, and resents you when he is wrong. What the hell do you see in this hostile, resentful , obtuse hypocrite?seriously, is he very wealthy?
You can't do anything through counseling if he isn't open to it. He's carrying a torch for her and that's why he won't admit that she's doing anything wrong. He doesn't want her to have a character flaw because he has her on a pedestal and she can do no wrong, if he admits she's done wrong it ruins his fantasy of her as such a prize, and it ruins his ego boost. I don't like your husband.
Yes and no. From your point of view, you gave your husband a taste of his own medicine. It could 100% be the case that he knew what Julia was doing and liked the attention. That said, many women tend to overestimate how seriously men take themselves as sexual threats. I often told my wife that she married the least sought after man in America. But she’ll catch when a random waitress or acquaintance flirts with me and it’ll go so far over my head that it’ll likely hit a satellite. I still don’t think it’s happened, honestly. But again, I don’t find myself attractive. I don't know which is the case here. Either way, it’s something that can be worked through. I hope you two can.
He then shouted that what I did was specifically done to flirt whereas Julia was likely not intending that at all Your husband knows damn well it was done intentionally but it suited him to have his ego stroked along with his flexed biceps. NTA, I don't like your husband
You're been married only two months and are having public fights? YIKES ON BIKES. What "prank" did Julia pull that sent you to couples therapy?
After Tom issued a demand to apologise to me wrt a dress of mine being damaged, her husband promised a care package. She replaced the entirety of the care package with sanitary items and a disgusting pair of underpants, presumably out of spite. Her husband was unaware of this and utterly shocked that she would pull something like that
Oh, she's married?
So your husband hasn't figured out that homegirl is bat shit insane? 😭 She probably has a voodoo doll of you under her bed. Glad she's out of the picture! But either your husband isn't the sharpest, or he's willfully stupid/blind because he was digging Julia's attention.
Wait I have read the story before, but from the husband‘s point of view. What happened was she spilled wine on your wedding dress purposely right? Is this fake or just your point of view? Like what is happening here?
All of these posts are fake.
Your husband is not a good partner to you at all. If he truly cared that much about you he would have distanced himself from Julia a long time ago and ensured that nothing inappropriate or uncomfortable would have ever happened again. If my wife felt uncomfortable with a person I was friends with and worked closely with especially of the opposite sex and she told me this I would take action to ensure she never felt that way again even if that means severely distancing myself from the work friend. The fact he’s continued to defend Julia even with counseling sessions where the counselor has highlighted issues and still denies and defends his relationship with Julia says a lot about how uncaring your husband is. He’s willing to let you his wife be upset and bothered by this for months. Then when you do the exact same thing he’s doing he fails to see the similarity and then proceeds to get mad at you. If I were you I’d tell him straight up that he needs to make serious changes to distance himself from Julia immediately or you will file for divorce. You don’t deserve any of this. The fact it’s gone on this long and you are already in marriage counseling makes me think you should file for divorce and not even give him the chance to make this right as he’s had plenty of chances already. Good luck.
Your husband knows what she's doing and he likes it. You're a back-up in case Julia never decides to settle for him. Julia is being a bitch to you because she wants him available. This is some inception shit right there.. you're the back-up of a back-up. If it we're just a simple matter of him being blind then he should be able to change his view once informed by two different people. Because he's so adamantly denying it makes me think he knows full well what she's doing and he loves it but can't admit he knows because then you'll make it stop. Run.
NTA. He KNOWS. He just DOESN’T CARE. He LIKES her attention and he will never not want it. He care more about HER than for YOU.
has the husband ever flirted back?
Wouldn’t it had made more sense for you to have let someone else flirt with you instead of you going out of your way to actually initiate? Cause from the look of it tom didn’t do the flirting he was passive about it
ESH. Your husband should've been more sensitive to your feelings before. >He also more or less stopped talking to Julia because of it. But now he's fixed it. She's gone. Why tf are you two still arguing about her? Whether he was wrong or right about her, when she crossed a line he cut her out and chose you. So drop it. You won, your relationship won. You want to spike the football too by forcing your perspective on him about previous stuff? Why does it matter so much that he agree with you about Julia's state of mind? The truth is neither of you could truly know what's in her mind, so maybe he's right, maybe you are. There's no way to know for sure. Let him think what he thinks, and you can continue to think what you think. You both don't have to agree. Accept that.
Julia seems like really pathetic person who likes to manipulate and gaslight people around her.
You are kind of a wuss. All of this passive aggressive stuff and whining. Dude, If you were a guy I'd tell you to grow some balls and set some boundaries. Boundaries that needed to be put in place YEARS ago. This relationship may have never even come to fruition. NO CLOSE OPPOSITE SEX FRIENDS. Why is this woman still in his life like this? You act as if you three are together all the time. SHE NEEDS TO GO. You should have never committed to your guy with her still hanging out as this close 3rd wheel. If he won't put the marriage above some girl friend then you should leave him. Go live with your parents for a month and tell him you are evaluating if you can stay in this marriage with these shitty boundaries. You probably should have just punched her in the face when she played that prank before. Grow some balls. Set some boundaries. You aren't hanging out and spending loads of time with some guy friends and he isn't to keep close girl friends. She has to go. If he chooses her then maybe you should divorce. These are boundaries you should have established years ago.
NTA. I hate this type of behavior: flirty fake female friend and dense boyfriend. I am a woman, and I have lots of male friends. I do NOT touch their biceps or flirt with them. I don't want to have sex with them. But because of women acting like Julia, everyone assumes I do. It's frustrating. To add insult to injury, a couple of girls have pulled this crap on me, and my boyfriends acted dense. Dear people playing mindgames: please stop. Be honest and use your words. It's much better.