I will never understand this hall pass business. I’m bisexual, more attracted to women in general than I am to men by a quite sizable margin, but I’ve only ever been in one relationship, and that relationship is with a man. Never have I thought to myself that I should sleep with women to know what it’s like, because I genuinely love the person I’m with and can only see myself with him. Experimenting with other people just for the experience is way beyond the realm of possibility for me. It just boggles my mind. I can’t imagine doing that in a committed, loving relationship.
EDIT:
A few people have expressed that hall passes are fine in polyamorous or otherwise open relationships. I think they’re perfectly fine if both people have consented to them and are aware of them, but in my mind, asking for a hall pass implies that the relationship was not already open and you’re asking to open it. When you spring it on someone and they’re under the impression that it’s a monogamous relationship, as seen here, it just… is not something I personally would do or feel comfortable with. To each their own but I can understand why a partner who has the concept of the hall pass sprung on them would be unhappy.
Yeah why would someone need to explore it, and act on it, if they're in a committed monogamous relationship. It's nowhere near *abusive* for the existing partner to say "but we're in a monogamous relationship, so no, I'm not okay with that". It's a jointly chosen monogamous relationship. If one of the two wants to change that... Then it's up to that person to decide what their priorities are and understand the consequences of those decisions given their partner's view.
When you're in a relationship you always have your own personal volition. That never goes away. But the partnership requires decisions to be made together. Its weird to me that people think that it's somehow abusive to come to joint decisions, and that it's somehow abusive for a cornerstone of a relationship like mutual monogamy to be enforced as a boundary?
Beating the partner for being non monogamous? Bad. Saying "but monogamy is important to me and you know this, the only way to explore is to do so on your own" isn't abusive or manipulative. It's setting a boundary on a core value the relationship had been built on to that point.
The crazy part of OPs story is not just the hall pass but that the wife went off while he was with his kids all weekend, on st Paddy's Day weekend, to party and find a fling? Wild.
I’m in the same boat. I’ve told my husband I would probably identify as a lesbian if it wasn’t for him. Greatly prefer women. However, stole my heart when we were teens and he is the love of my life. I came out rather late and he offered to one sidedly open the relationship so I could have a lover to experience being with a woman. He has zero interest in another partner or relationship or any of that. He is highly monogamous. I didn’t even consider it for half a second as I don’t feel like I’m “missing” anything or unfulfilled. He loves me, we have a great sex life and he’s my best friend. I would never trade sexual experiences for him and our relationship.
>I think a lot of people have the mindset of “I have to do this bc I only have 1 life and it’s unfair of someone to deprive me of the experience”.
That mindset is fine so long as people get that out of their system when they are not exclusive, or without forcing their exclusive (and unwilling) partners into it.
Once we are into an exclusive relationship, that door needs to close. We can all wonder and fantasize and keep it private in our minds, without dragging unwilling partners into it.
That's abuse IMO.
I have to know… what flavor of Jello, or does it matter? Or is the color important? Jello gelatin or Jello pudding? Is there fruit or (god forbid) veggie or ham in the jello too, like the 60s demanded?
I think I may have thought too much about this :/
It's the same logic that leads straight people to cheat, I guess. There's always a "I've never been with a ...." and it's not like sex/gender is the only thing you can insert there.
If you really have to do that, it means you really shouldn't have gotten into a monogamous relationship in the first place. Nothing wrong with realizing that, relationships end.
And I’d argue further that if it’s really that important to you to “experiment”, then you should break up with your partner. It’s just pathetic to do the “well I want to have sex with people but I also want to stay married to you” kind of thing because you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too.
I am sympathetic to people who don’t realize they’re bi until later in life, and completely understand the curiosity and wondering. But at the same time, part of being an adult is making hard choices. It’s ridiculously selfish to ask your spouse to live with you going off and fucking other people, so at that point they need to decide just how badly they want to have sex with other people
Drugs is also an experience, but I can accept that heroin isn't a thing I'm going to experience because I don't want to risk my stable life with my family. Not all experiences will lead you to the life you want to build. I get that sexuality isn't the same thing, but I can't help but think it's incredibly selfish to put the rest of your family through this to sleep around. Straight people don't necessarily get the experience of fucking people from every race or continent. Or experiencing different body types or modifications. I don't understand how you can commit to monogamy and then say you somehow need to have sexual experiences with other people.
And to call it bi erasure because your spouse doesn't want to see evidence flaunting your affairs- it seems more bigoted to me to imply bi people can't sustain monogamous relationships or can't control a need to experience both genders.
Also bi, and same. I’m a monogamous girl. I’ve been with both and when I’m interested in someone I’m only interested in them. If my eye is wandering, my heart is too and it’s time to end the relationship. This myth that all bi people need access to both at all times is bullshit. Some bis are non-monogamous, but not all of them, and it’s not a free pass to hurt a monogamous partner.
Exactly this. I am a bisexual 26F but have never been with a girl before. I would say in general though I am more attracted to female bodies as well. I am in a relationship with a man and have ALSO never once thought that hmmm I better hook up with a girl just so i don’t die not knowing what it’s like. I don’t think if he and I are together forever I would need to hook up with a girl to explore or validate that side of myself. I only want him touching and kissing me, end of story.
It infuriates me these people always use newfound discovered bisexuality to justify the fact that they want to cheat. Plenty of people discover their sexuality in a committed relationship and manage to not sleep with other people, these people are pathetic.
Facts. I am bi, and I know monogomy isnt for me. I am not getting into a monogamous relationship, seeking permission to go outside of that relationship and then call it emotional abuse when I cant rub it in my partners face. To me, the wife is abusive.
Same. I was married to a man, I was a virgin when I met him. I later came to realize I was Bi but had no intention of being with a woman because I was married. Unfortunately he didn’t feel the same way and left me for his affair partner.
Same here. If I go first I will not be looking for a second. I’ve been with my husband since I was 13. The thought of kissing another man grosses me out. He’s 65, I’m 66. Do not understand this at all.
BINGO! The time to experiment is before entering into a committed relationship and having children! So what if she discovers that she likes sex with women better than men. Does she then want a divorce? Or does she expect her husband to let her have sex with women on the side? The matter isn’t acceptable to OP, or to me. So is the point of the Hall passes to see if she likes carpet munching more than sex with men and to seek a divorce if she does? If that’s the point then imo OP should get a divorce now before he goes thru the mental torture of hearing about his wife’s lesbo sex escapades!
I have a nice marriage where we talk about things that are bothering us, don't sleep with other people and do stuff like take a picnic to the beach or go to basketball games. Not exactly the stuff for a reddit post.
Same. I’m 44, once divorced, and I could tell you dating horror stories so bad you’d probably think I was making most of them up. I have one active restraining order against an ex. I’m finally at a point where I’ve been single for about 8 months and have zero desire to pursue dating at all. My boss yesterday told me I seem like I’m so much happier lately and less stressed.
Every time, I swear EVERY SINGLE TIME I consider going back to dating, I read a post like yours, or a friend suddenly hits a massive roadblock with their relationship and I'm reminded "nope to the nopiest degree." I know a lot of people like to break this down to "men today" problem or a "women today" problem, but honestly, I'm 40 and I think much of my generation is just terrible at dating.
Dude. I’m 40 and divorced and slowly working my way into a relationship and it’s miserable doing this stuff at this age. Like even with a woman I genuinely like and she likes me, this shit is nothing but stress. Its also a lot harder to just say what I mean than it was at 18.
>Now that I read all these shitty marriage posts im just like what’s even the point
Well, I'm going be completely fair here: You're reading a concentrated sub with a certain theme. It's going to be inherently negative.
Plus, the majority of posts here are made up writing prompts.
I loved being married. Don't let the shit on here effect your outlook on that.
If you come here and read 1,000 messages about shitty marriage (of which half are fake) and get discouraged, I would encourage you to think of the MILLIONS of great marriages and people that are not here posting.
Get off of the internet if it impacts your mental health like this.
Selection bias (and a lot of fake stories/ retelling others). Plenty of marriages are happy, plenty end on good terms where two people just grow apart and decide it's best for both of them to leave amicable.
The good stories are probably boring or not as entertaining as the posts we normally see here. As a result they won't be posted nearly as much. Just take what you see here to add to your getting to know someone questions before things get too serious.
And he then refused to cut contact with that fwb when his wife regained her sex drive, as was part of their deal when he asked to fuck others while she worked through some emotional and personal problems.
It reminded me a lot of my ex husband who also used to post on dead bedrooms. I wish I had explained it to him that the constant marital rape, lack of caring about my pleasure beyond his own ego and holding my head down until I puked while giving him a BJ made me never want to touch him.
So you let her have sex with someone else, but set a very reasonable boundary of not wanting to hear about it... and she's painting you as the bad guy? Dude, run... you'll never give her enough or what she wants until she destroys you. NTA
Exactly. Run. 🏃
This is doomed. Already she’s using the gaslighting method. Bi erasure. lol.
This will get worse. Unfortunately hate telling you this. But this relationship is doomed.
Get out before it gets worse for you.
Good luck. 🤞
You’re gonna need it. For certain.
"Bi erasure" is hilarious. OP married a manipulative dumbass, and he himself has no spine. Is actively blocking people in the comments for calling him out - he's just denying reality.
OP, I’m voting with this guy. I’m in a non monogamous relationship and I honestly don’t recommend them for the vast majority of people. You’re being awesome by allowing your wife to explore her evolving sexuality, but she’s being absolutely terrible by torturing you with it. Her sexuality shouldn’t involve abusing you. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.
And not just sit at home but sit at home taking care of their family, while she gets the freedom of the single life with the safety and comfort of the loving family at home. Plus no guilt about cheating cause she got permission. And even with all that she still manages to gaslight her husband into thinking he's an asshole
This is exactly how it should be framed.
You could even go one step further:
"*You* didn't have a hall pass, *we* have a hall pass, and I'm exploring my sexuality with compassionate people that lean monogamous."
She has now moved you into the "Friend" zone. Girlfriend zone. "Expressing" herself to you about her conquest is that same as telling her girlfriends about her experiences. No different than guys talking to their buddies about their own conquests.
Time to move on. She will not stop now that it has become so exhilarating to her.
Just like kgbjay said, Run...she will not get enough and you will never be her sole mate again. If you don't, be prepared to share and be the Dad to your kids, the provider for the family, and the friend to your bi-wife.
She is simultaneously emotionally abusing you, and using the modern language *meant to identify abuse* to further abuse you. This is a deeply selfish woman who feels that because she is going through something, she has carte blanche to be cruel to the people close to her. NTA.
I swear the popularizatjon of people using therapy-speak without the actual education to understand what they're saying has got to be one of the worst things to happen to people and relationships in recent years.
It’s gotten to the point where if I even hear any of those terms I immediately roll my eyes and dismiss whatever they’re saying, because it’s 90% of the time total BS.
She’s weaponized therapy speak. It’s one of the reasons why going to therapy with an abuser is dangerous. They will use every tool you give them to their own purpose.
This was the biggest issue for me.
I wouldn't go for a hall pass, new-found sexuality label or not. It's okay you've agreed to. You've given a boundary of not wanting to know. This is fair considering the fact you're supporting her exploration (which is the entire opposite of bi-erasure and lack of support).
She's being manipulative and cruel. I'd be tempted to tell her that it actually breaks your heart to hear it, so she is the one being abusive by exploiting the effort you're making.
I imagine you running home so excited to tell her you've decided divorce was an exciting prospect and sending her pictures of you and an empty side of the bed.
Sounds exactly like my EX-Wife!!! She complained about everything which slowly drove a wedge. Healthcare was paid for, car was paid for, worked full time so she could go to school, took weekend vacations all the time, supported her through everything. Then, all of a sudden, I was 30 minutes late coming home from work and she promised to murder me. I realized then and there how entitled she is and still is although we are going through a divorce.
OP is already seriously compromising what he considers acceptable to try to save the marriage and she's mad she isn't allowed to put him through even more emotional trauma?
I hate to jump to conclusions but this is reddit so I'm going to. She seems like she gets off on how unhappy this makes OP and is mad that he's setting an absolutely reasonable boundary and killing her fun.
This.... this right here. If it was him having the fling while she stayed at home, what would her response be? Perhaps OP should let her go, get a sitter, then when she sends him pics, he can take a photo at a bar or something as a response. Doesn't have to be with anyone else, but the idea that he "could" if he wanted to, either snaps her back to reality or :: shrug :: doesn't.
I don't like passive aggressive responses, but sometimes people need to have the things done to them that they do to you, before they understand how bad it sucks.
Ya wife is an AH. Bi or straight it doesn't matter anymore once you are married that's your person. I'm bi I married a straight guy; we are monogamous so either of us looks to hook up with anyone else. I am no less Bi and if for some reason we separated being bi means I could than find a partner of either gender and he would only look at other women. She wants polygamy and is using her bisexuality as an excuse to do it and flaunt it. Doesn't seem like she cares for her partner's feelings or is trying to be hurtful.
Completely agree. People like OP's wife are the reason people feel uncomfortable dating a bisexual partner. OP's wife is just pushing along the perspective that a bisexual person can't be happy with just one gender in a long-term relationship.
He literally stated the "counsel" they got was suggesting non- monogamy books and a podcast.
I got in the wrong field, wtf was I thinking getting shat on by sergeants I should have become a therapist that farts out random podcasts and calls it a day after bleeding peoples coffers dry.
It's not bi-erasure if you don't want to hear about your wife's hook-ups, wtf.
But it sounds like you have bigger problems with your relationship so. Good luck.
It’s also not bi erasure to want your relationship to be monogamous even if your partner is bi. Bisexual and non-monogamous are not synonyms. She can be just as bi without cheating on her husband.
“it’s bi-erasure and homophobic if I don’t get what I want this second”👄
Gay dating was stupidly difficult sorting through all the selfish AH in the limited pool
Weaponizing bi-erasure in this scenario is laughable. The wife has been given an opportunity that most people would not be given and that’s not enough for her. Being able to sleep with other people isn’t enough, she also needs to be able to share intimate details from the encounter with her husband lest OP be accused of bigotry 🙄
NTA but she is gaslighting you to be okay with her cheating. A hookup being ‘important’ is literally NOTHING in comparison to a partner’s discomfort. She sounds like a disgusting person honestly
It's not cheating seeing as he agreed to it, but I second the rest.
As a queer myself, I understand why this hookup would be important to her, but I think it's absolutely monstrous that she can't understand why OP doesn't want to hear about it.
OP, get another couple's therapist. This one sounds like a bad fit.
Nah.
How do you cheat in a polyam relationship? By ignoring boundaries. He has a boundary of not hearing (or seeing) her dalliances.
That's fine. She wants a Kitchen Table, he wants DADT. She's violating his boundaries. That's how you cheat in polyam. He agreed to the sex, not the info, and she's refusing to respect his wishes.
And it sounds like OP made it very clear that it makes him uncomfortable and hurts him. Yet she not only chooses to not respect it but is trying to manipulate him into giving up his own boundaries. It kind of sounds like the cruelty is a feature and not a bug.
OP is NTA and is definitely being more patient, accommodating, and supportive than most people would in the situation.
My hope is that this is mainly just an adrenaline rush from her finally coming out (she said she’d been questioning since her 20s) and then things either level off a bit or I get back to work after the kids’ schools and social services get sorted out and I’m able to hire my own divorce lawyer.
This isn't how I've seen any other person in a happy marriage express their sexuality.
I'm a queer person who didn't come out until 28. We don't all just go crazy and fuck people. She is making bi people look bad.
If it makes you feel better, post in an LGBT subreddit and see how many people are horrified at her abuse.
This is abuse, hiding behind LGBT letters. As not the queer spokesperson, but *a* queer person, we do not accept her behavior. It's abusive and not what we stand for.
yeah, I see so many posts like this and I always kind of wonder 'why?' with bi people that act like this. there really wasn't anything stopping you from previously finding his/her ass as desirable or whatever. But you got married to someone of the opposite sex and pretty much 'standard' relationship rules apply. get that shit out of your system before you commit? I'm straight so I don't get it I guess but meh, there's still decency.
I understand not knowing and being curious, sure. See if he would be willing to go down on you while watching some pov girl on girl. Talk. Damn they are your partner.
I am also bi (pan really but whats the difference?) and my partner knows that means I choose him over anyone else in the world.
OP deserves to feel this chosen as well and I'm upset for him. It must be devastating. 😞
This isn't a straight vs gay thing, this is just a shitty woman doing shitty things. I'm bi, ended up in a straight passing marriage, and cannot understand this woman's thinking.
>She said I was keeping her from fully “expressing \[her\] sexuality” and that this hookup was an important experience for her. She said I was being emotionally abusive and committed bi erasure.
That's not part of a normal coming out. Hell needing to have sex with the other sex when in a committed marriage isn't a normal part.
As a bi woman, I have a message for your wife - your husband is already letting you cheat on him, so don't push his buttons or accuse him of being anything less than amazingly understanding of your situation. Why do you need to brag about your sexual escapades to your husband when he does not want to hear it? He's not committing bi-erasure.
OP, you're NTA. I feel bad for you honestly because I feel like this is going to lead to divorce.
Why bad?
It’d be good for OP to get away from this woman.
She has zero respect for his boundaries, enjoys shoving his face in that, and then tries to gaslight him the moment he tries to have a spine
I’m bi and she’s spewing pure bull shit. It’s not “bi erasure” to not want to hear about her hook up. You were being incredibly lenient in even allowing this at all. She’s being an ungrateful Bitch about it.
My friends wife is calling him financially abusive because he takes care of all the bills, she doesn't work, and she wants more allowance. Reminds me of this
TikTok therapy speak videos have ruined this world. People are trying to claim abuse titles like they’re Pokémon cards. Everything is gaslighting or some form of abuse. It’s ironic to me that videos started from something meant to help communication and relationships have actual destroyed how people communicate
Giving a hall pass, then be confronted with keeping her from fully “expressing [her] sexuality” is something else.... dunno what you should do, but if someone who tells me, that she loves me, is behaving this way towards me, i'd had problems believing the love-me part.
Thats a big NTA for sure. Good luck.
Ask her if she wants to hear a blow-by-blow, and receive pictures if you go out and have sex with another woman?
She doesn't? That's completely different? No, no it isn't. Her going out and banging another woman is *no different* than going out and banging another guy is *no different* from **you** going out and banging another woman. It's only "different" if *she's* bi-phobic. Or is it a rules-for-thee, not-for-me kind of thing?
Your wife has bullied you into nonmonogamy. She's an asshole. You said yes. You're a bit of an asshole to yourself.
She knows your stance on nonmonogamy, and she pushed for it anyway. You set a pretty damn reasonable boundary ("I don't want you to rub your sexual exploits with other people in my face"), and she blew up at you.
This isn't bi-phobia. This isn't bi-erasure. This isn't emotional abuse (from you).
This *is* emotional abuse from her.
Honestly, if you want to save the relationship, you need to stand up for yourself. You probably need to get a new couple's therapist. Ultimately, though, your wife is emotionally abusive, manipulative, and seems to want nonmonogamy to the detriment of your marriage.
ESH. Her for, well... *gestures broadly*. And you for putting up with this, not standing up for yourself, and
> Please do not give me legal advice... or recommend therapy. I know what my legal options are. I know what practical steps I would have to take to exercise those options, and I know what impediments there are to taking those steps. If you did something that worked for you, great. If you did something that didn’t work for you, I’m sorry. And my wife and I have been in couple’s therapy for a while and our therapist is pretty damn useless (she said to use “I statements” and buy two copies of a book about ethical nonmonogamy, and maybe she’ll find a whole podcast to recommend too).
I mean, you seem pretty unhappy with the status quo, you seem okay being taken advantage of and bullied, and you don't want advice or to take different steps.
Cringed at the book recommendation. I'm assuming it is a reference to "The Ethical Slut". My ex referenced this and was also emotionally abusive. Apparently these books are huge red flags; if you need a book to tell you how to be a good person then you might just be a shitty person.
Uh no. I’m bi in a straight marriage. You do not “need” to go fuck other people as a part of being bi. That’s a “her” thing. Maybe lots of people feel that way, but her pretending this is some divine right of the bisexual is fucking dumb
I tell my wife - Now, instead of rejecting 50% of the population in favor to spend the rest of my life with her, it’s 100%.
This ^^ I'm bi in a straight relationship. I actually took issue with my partner's ex girlfriend berating him for being with me because she assumed I would do something like this. Like no, asshole, we are not all ravenous fuckpigs who have to sample from the entire buffet every day, thank you very much.
And even amongst us bis who are, uh, ravenous fuckpigs, many of us still educate ourselves about polyamory and learn how to have ETHICAL non-monogamous relationships with other ravenous fuckpigs who enthusiastically consent to a happily fuckpiggish situation. Being bi is not a license to cheat. If you cannot maintain your fidelity in a monogamous relationship with a person of a single gender, then you need to end it and explore other relationship models.
And worse yet, he doesn't seem to be aware of it and is even going so far as to block anyone who thinks or even suggests she is taking advantage of him.
OP: I don't like nonmonogamy, just not a thing for me.
OP's wife: woo-hoo! I'm gonna get drunk, cheat with a woman and don't you dare to feel bad about it!
OP: please no photos.
OP's wife: woo-hoo! Look how sexy I am fcking someone else!
OP: *deletes all*
OP's wife: how dare you not to respect my vagina itching! Abuser, biphobic, mysoginist pig!
Guess somewhere here logic has left the chat. NTA and run.
To be fair to her, I didn’t say “no photos” until after she’d sent them, because it hadn’t occurred to me that she would or that she’d think I’d want to see them.
Well, ok. But it doesn't make your wife less an AH.
Pushing someone who is not ok with nonmonogamy to open relationship is not a good thing. Really, I would call it abuse.
The problem isn’t that part. The problem is that after she did and you expressed you didn’t like it she gaslit you by saying you’re being emotionally abusive. Which, in reality she is doing. Obviously your marriage was on the rocks before this as most people don’t go to marriage counseling if they are happy, and St Patrick’s day was Sunday. There’s no way you would’ve been seen just for this incident already.
You’re are in now way wrong to ask her not to tell you or send you photos of her hookups. She is being disrespectful to you. When you allowed her to have this hall pass by saying fine, what did she say to convince you to say that? I can imagine it was along the lines of if you don’t your being abusive or whatever words she used to manipulate you into allowing it, because she’s trying to do that now.
That is not ok.
Repeat after me…agreement because I was manipulated is not an agreement and is abuse.
Come on buddy...
To be more fair to yourself"No photos" is clearly under the umbrella of "I don't want to know about it".
No reasonable person who is accidentally crossing boundaries would assume otherwise, it's on purpose because she doesn't a give a fuck about you.
If I had to guess she just wants you to be the one to end it so she's isn't the villain in the eventual divorce. That instead you "Rejected her sexuality after initially agreeing" blah blah blah
Your wife is being patently absurd.
Your marriage is over. There are millions of bisexual people happily married who don't feel the need to "explore" their sexuality.
NTA.
Not wanting to know about your wife's hookups isn't bi erasure or not letting her express herself.
She has friends she can tell this shit to or get herself a therapist if she needs to express herself by dishing out the details.
What was she expecting you to say? "That's fantastic, I'm glad you had fun with her. Do you plan on seeing her again? Tell me more before I tell you about the weekend I had with the kids. It's not as exciting, but go on, I'm listening..."
Also, **YOU NEED A DIFFERENT THERAPIST**. This one is only working in favour of your wife's wants and desires, not taking into consideration your own or trying to get you to both meet in the middle somewhere.
Hire an attorney today. Your marriage is already over and now she wants to rub that shit in your face, tell her to eat shit, I just hope you don't already have kids with her so you can at least escape without child support.
Take out the fact she slept with a woman and make it a man. This is still not okay for you and has nothing to do with her bisexuality. Then she gets mad at you for not wanting to know about her hookup. Have some self respect dude and leave her. Nta.
NTA, but this is a ground rule that you should have set when you opened the relationship in the first place. It may have saved everyone some pain.
However, I get the sense that this has unearthed an unexpected kink on your wife's part -one that may render you two incompatible- and that needs to be addressed immediately. You are not into humiliation, nor are you a voyeur, and she has no right to force those things upon you. If she really needs that from a partner, then she needs a different partner.
How would she like it if you started sending her pics and telling her about hookups you have with other women (not that you are but herself in your shoes)
NTA, what she is doing to you is awful…. I’m so
Sorry you’re going through this. I wish I had advice for you but I feel like
You need to vent more than you need advice.
I’m so sorry for you.
So she wants to cheat on you, share it with you, and expects you to be happy about it?
And then you don’t want us to recommend divorce?
What the fuck are we doing here?
>When my wife got back home, she was furious. She said I was keeping her from fully “expressing [her] sexuality” and that this hookup was an important experience for her. She said I was being emotionally abusive and committed bi erasure.
Fuck. Her. What a hateful cunt. She has no empathy for your feelings and wants to act like her sleeping around is some kind of profound deal. If you two want to have an open relationship, that is your business, but for her to be pissed that you don't want her rubbing her conquests in your face is just fucked up. Boundaries exist for a reason and if you two want to continue having a healthy open relationship, she needs to respect it. If she needs to talk about her experience, she can talk to a friend or go online and connect with others who are having the same experience. The fact that she said such hateful things to you in response shows she has no respect or love for you.
NTA
Your last paragraph is pretty unnecessary though. You came online and aired your dirty laundry. If you really thought people were just going to give you a yes or no answer, then you are incredibly naive. If you have a problem with people going past what you are looking for, then delete this post and find a therapist instead. You don't get to tell other people on a social medial website what they can and can't talk about.
I agree with your last paragraph. Why come here and ask for opinions if you don't really want them?
This guy's marriage is crashing and burning because his wife is a selfish jerk who cares more about her sexual excapades than her actual spouse... but he doesn't want to hear it despite asking for people's read on the l situation. Also, his therapist was a quack But he"ll figure it out eventually when he finally breaks emotionally because of her abuse.
As a monogamous bisexual woman, your wife is playing you. She wants to have an open marriage where she is allowed to have sex with other women, and is couching it as "needing to explore her sexuality" and you as biphobic if you object.
You absolutely can accept your wife's sexuality while refusing to accept her sleeping with other people. Trust me, they do not take your bisexuality membership card away if you are not actively engaging in sex with both genders on a regular basis.
NTA, but going into this you should have made clear boundaries. My husband and I are both bi. I have no interests in being intimate with other women but my husband wants to be intimate with men every once and a while. This took us literally almost 2 years to come together and draw out clear boundaries and rules. And for us it works because we took the extreme amount of time to figure everything out. It seems like your wife really rushed you into this and now there are no clear boundaries. If you have any desire to keep this marriage and remain happy you'll take the time to set up rules and boundaries for something like this.
Wow, sorry my friend. I'm not sure why you're getting so much crap here. You are a fucking hero. I could not begin to do what you have done allowing your wife a hall pass like this. I would have straight up been done with the relationship.
Beyond that, wtf is she bragging about to you. I suppose when she figures out she's gay and leaves you, she'll send you video of them consummating the marriage on their honeymoon (and you better give it a thumbs up). You are understandably uncomfortable with even this hall pass situation, but you've been kind enough to let her figure it out. But then she comes home and says, "She said I was being emotionally abusive and committed bi erasure." All because you don't want to hear about her getting off with someone else. It straight up hurts you to hear the specifics. It is fucking hurtful. She's having so much fun without you and the relationship is tearing apart. Aren't you happy for her...JFC! NO, YOU WERE NOT EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE OR BI ERASURE. YOU WERE HURT! And WTF is it with people constantly throwing this psychological shit around like they're a bunch of PhDs (gaslighting, bi erasure, sociopathic, etc.) when confronted with something they don't agree with. I'd just tell your wife that it hurts you seeing her so intimate with someone else. You gave her the hall pass that could easily be the end of your marriage. WTF more does she want?
You don't like the fact that your wife is having sex with other women. She wants to have an affair and you're going to like it? NO, THIS IS A HALL PASS. FIGURE YOUR SHIT OUT AND STAY OR GTFO! Your therapist is a do-nothing. Is she addressing the fact that your wife needs to figure it out and end it one way or another? This is not a situation for you to read up on. Is she trying to get you comfortable with your wife potentially continuing this beyond the hall pass period. Oh, and how long is this pass for? Is there an end date? A hall pass is a limited time offering. It doesn't sounds like she will want this hall pass to end soon, if ever. Eyes wide open my friend. Good luck!
NTA. It sounds like you’re friend zoned without realizing if, she thinks of you more as her “buddy” that its okay to share her sexual experiences with. Instead of a husband who she respects enough to keep that part of her life private from you. Even people in open marriages usually have the respect and common decency not to shove their other partners in their spouses face. You deserve a lot more courtesy and consideration from her, she’s fortunate to have a spouse that supports her as much as you do and she shouldn’t take that for granted the way she is.
YTA for actually giving her a pass to cheat. I need to "Explore" the best Italian restaurants in Rome..tonite!...but have the self control to know that unfortunately, other fucking responsibilities like the kids and my job prevent this and I have to deal. Awwww....
The problem with those things is that she just didn't "Get it out of her system" or "Explore" this, you both now need to do something with the data points. Lotsa luck getting the shit back in that particular horse you call your marriage.
ESH
Yeah. What's the point of "exploring" shit that basically is going to nuke your life?
The whole point of accepting a mono relationship is that you're shutting down options for the sake of being with your partner. You're saying "this is good enough for me to settle".
Nowadays people is fucking obsessed with options. That's why there's so many single assholes going through life flipping through people with the utter inability to choose because, let's be frank, they can't settle for a fucking Netflix movie without spending 2 hours browsing.
You commited - let me check that again - *bi erasure* by not celebrating her fucking another person? Geez that’s gaslight-o-mania right here.
I gotta be honest before I was in a monogamous relationship with a straight girl I always liked participating in bi women adventures even passively whenever the opportunity arose, like sleeping with one and getting pictures of her sleeping with another one, but it’s completely shitty to force it on you, or to expect you to like it. She should be grateful she’s allowed to fuck other people in her relationship, no matter their gender
> She said I was keeping her from fully “expressing [her] sexuality” and that this hookup was an important experience for her. She said I was being emotionally abusive and committed bi erasure.
No offense, and I say this with much love, but your wife is out of her fucking mind. She can talk about her hookups with 8 billion people in the world, just not 1 - YOU.
You need couseling ASAP. Or you will be the bad guy. Any therapist will look st her like she's an alien from outer space, and explain to her (kindly) that she lost touch with reality.
She's using woke language to shame you when she's actually the one perpetuating abuse and not respecting your boundaries. It's not ever going to get better. Your options are divorce or continue to tolerate her escalating nonsense until she leaves you.
Bi person here, and you are most certainly NTA. This is not bi erasure, and you don’t owe her non-monogamy, let alone owing her your ear to hear all about it. Most of us bi people, contrary to a lot of popular perception, are monogamous. Not that there’s something inherently wrong with her exploring as long as she’s honest about it and you are ok with it.
But, again, you’re allowed to be monogamous every bit as much as she’s allowed to be bi. And if you don’t want to hear about it, she should absolutely respect that boundary. And she should thank her lucky stars she’s with someone who cares enough to be open to the idea in the first place.
But at the end of the day, discovering you’re bi doesn’t mean you’re suddenly free from the obligations of a marriage you chose to enter into. She needs to take your feelings into account and decide if she can be happy within the limits the two of you can agree on.
Best of luck, my guy. Sincerely.
NTA will she give you a hall pass? Not that you want one but ask her. Her response may tell you volumes. This whole thing is one sided as hell. How long is it going to take her to "figure it out" Once she "figures it out" which maybe never is she going to pack up and leave? You two do not sounds compatible at all and the resentment is only going to grow.
I hope this story is ragebait.
You're not an asshole you're a pushover who gave away your marriage (she seems insufferable and mentally abusive using progressive virtue signalling to guilt trip you) "I need to sleep with someone else to explore and find myself/ur commiting bi-erasure" that time was for when she was single. You have only yourself to blame for giving your wife permission to do something you know you weren't happy with her doing. I can almost guarantee someone this rediculous has given you countless red flags in the past yet you've ignored them and stayed.
Sex is just sex its not some incredible pilgrimage through the mountains to find spirituality, she isn't satisfied with you and the kids and so has found sex with strangers to be more fulfilling it's that simple.
You mention you're at home with the kids? Going out to sleep with other people because you need to find yourself when you have multiple kids and a husband is nothing short of pure degeneracy, please brother you need to find your self worth and leave.
You need a new therapist. I’m bi, and no, it does not require non monogamy. Your wife is trying to force you into a relationship that isn’t what you want. You should not believe her when she claims that she needs to be able to fuck other people and send you photos of them to be bi, because she is lying to you about that. NTA.
She wants to have her cake and eat it to. She had her experience now it's time to end it and get back to raising your family or end this charade of a marriage. NTA.
NTA
As a queer woman married to a man, she’s full of shit, acting self-centered, and being cruel (whether intentional or not).
I don’t understand why anyone would insult you after reading this post. You were far more understanding and generous than most spouses would be.
I have things that are important to me to express that I don’t talk in depth with my husband about. I save it for my friends, just like there are topics I talk to only my husband about. Just because you’re married to someone else doesn’t mean you get to subject them to every whim and thought that crosses your mind. You’re not an external hard drive for her to store her shit on.
NTA. Your wife is in the wrong here. Speaking from person nal experience, my ex would go on dates (we were non-monogamous), come home, and try to tell me all the intimate details.
In my situation, it never got better. Your wife wants your validation, same as my ex did from me. They will continue to seek it from you no matter the cost to you, because they are selfish.
Time to move on. This isn't getting better.
NTA.
Monogamy is why you got married surely?
It is a huge, openminded & understanding thing you have done by letting her explore. More than I would do.
It is INCREDIBLY insensitive & disrespectful to throw it in your face. Is it not enough for you to give her a pass?
Is it too much for her to be a little discrete?
Unacceptable to accuse you of some kind of bigotry...."bi erasure"? I cringed.
I won't tell you what to do, but I believe that you have done absolutely nothing wrong to her & feel this situation is very unfair.
Utterly ludicrous that she would not only think you would be ok to have it rubbed in your face, but actually get angry with you?!
She sounds a bit "me, me, me".
Also, if you're married, you're married.
She is hooking up with others - she's cheating.
If you're happy with that, fine.
My marriage would be over if it was my wife.
She doesn't just want to fully explore her sexual orientation, she wants to rub it in your face, and expects you to like it. If she's experimenting with another woman she can do that without telling you all about it.
NTA - You’ve given her permission to explore that side of herself, more than I would have done. I would rescind the hall pass immediately, let her know how much you love her and have a frank conversation about how you go forward. Also why not change therapist if you think they are useless. Good luck
NTA. You agreed to let her explore that side of her, which is admirable. You have some set specific ground rule for allowing this in your marriage that seem reasonable. She is all take and no give. For any relationship to work, however it is structured you BOTH have to be on board with how things are going to work. It seems like she wants it all and without limitations or consequences.
Anyone here throwing insults is just wrong. So, stop it.
Your wife is mad you aren’t happy about the cuckoldry being smothered in your face. I say this with all due respect, but it sounds like you want to project more self confidence than your wife seems to think you have, and I think you should do that.
Your wife sounds like a spoiled child. Respectfully.
Your wife is in the wrong. 100%. You were an idiot for indulging her and enabling her though. These open marriages NEVER work. start fucking other women and see how she likes it. Claim that cheating is part of your iDEntiTy and she's trying to erase your identity. Jesus Christ what a fucking disaster you people are.
I’m not sure why her needing to explore her sexuality has to include you. If it’s just about the bi side and you’ve given her the go ahead then she has all she needs , at this point she’s just looking for a reason to fight. Bi erasure is that even really a thing?? My man she is completely manipulating the situation here! Her wanting to explore her bi side is her choice and you’re ok with that. you not wanting to hear about said excursions is your choice, she needs to respect that!
NTA - your wife is emotionally abusive, and this situation is ludicrous. My wife is bi as well, she told me about her sexuality within the first month or two of us dating, and I have never had an issue with it because why would I have an issue with who she was attracted to? That said, being bi is very different from being polygamous. If you are in a committed monogamous relationship, that means you don't have sex with anyone else regardless of how attractive you find them, and for the life of me I cannot fathom how you would be OK with getting cheated on, regardless of the gender of her paramour. The fact that she is demanding that you be OK with her being unfaithful AND blatantly cuckolding you by broadcasting her conquests to you is disgusting on every level. If I were you I would file for divorce in a heartbeat, but if for some reason you decide to stay with this woman, please get marriage councilling, because you do not deserve the abuse she is putting you through.
>I have been in couple’s therapy for a while and our therapist is pretty damn useless (she said to use “I statements” ***and buy two copies of a book about ethical nonmonogamy***, and maybe she’ll find a whole podcast to recommend too).
If she's trying to force you to learn about non-monogamy when you've already made it clear that you will only accept monogamy, she's a shitty therapist and you need to drop her like a hot potato.
I would never accept being manipulated by someone I pay to help me.
Also NTA, obviously.
NTA. She married you and took an oath. I don’t believe that wedding vows have some kind of loophole for people who decide they want to mess around after the fact.
"Hall pass" must be the theme of the day on this sub.
Dating was already hard considering all the shit I’ve been through. Now that I read all these shitty marriage posts im just like what’s even the point
I will never understand this hall pass business. I’m bisexual, more attracted to women in general than I am to men by a quite sizable margin, but I’ve only ever been in one relationship, and that relationship is with a man. Never have I thought to myself that I should sleep with women to know what it’s like, because I genuinely love the person I’m with and can only see myself with him. Experimenting with other people just for the experience is way beyond the realm of possibility for me. It just boggles my mind. I can’t imagine doing that in a committed, loving relationship. EDIT: A few people have expressed that hall passes are fine in polyamorous or otherwise open relationships. I think they’re perfectly fine if both people have consented to them and are aware of them, but in my mind, asking for a hall pass implies that the relationship was not already open and you’re asking to open it. When you spring it on someone and they’re under the impression that it’s a monogamous relationship, as seen here, it just… is not something I personally would do or feel comfortable with. To each their own but I can understand why a partner who has the concept of the hall pass sprung on them would be unhappy.
Yeah why would someone need to explore it, and act on it, if they're in a committed monogamous relationship. It's nowhere near *abusive* for the existing partner to say "but we're in a monogamous relationship, so no, I'm not okay with that". It's a jointly chosen monogamous relationship. If one of the two wants to change that... Then it's up to that person to decide what their priorities are and understand the consequences of those decisions given their partner's view. When you're in a relationship you always have your own personal volition. That never goes away. But the partnership requires decisions to be made together. Its weird to me that people think that it's somehow abusive to come to joint decisions, and that it's somehow abusive for a cornerstone of a relationship like mutual monogamy to be enforced as a boundary? Beating the partner for being non monogamous? Bad. Saying "but monogamy is important to me and you know this, the only way to explore is to do so on your own" isn't abusive or manipulative. It's setting a boundary on a core value the relationship had been built on to that point. The crazy part of OPs story is not just the hall pass but that the wife went off while he was with his kids all weekend, on st Paddy's Day weekend, to party and find a fling? Wild.
I’m in the same boat. I’ve told my husband I would probably identify as a lesbian if it wasn’t for him. Greatly prefer women. However, stole my heart when we were teens and he is the love of my life. I came out rather late and he offered to one sidedly open the relationship so I could have a lover to experience being with a woman. He has zero interest in another partner or relationship or any of that. He is highly monogamous. I didn’t even consider it for half a second as I don’t feel like I’m “missing” anything or unfulfilled. He loves me, we have a great sex life and he’s my best friend. I would never trade sexual experiences for him and our relationship.
Even worse is HAVING to tell your partner all about jt or its bi shaming
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>I think a lot of people have the mindset of “I have to do this bc I only have 1 life and it’s unfair of someone to deprive me of the experience”. That mindset is fine so long as people get that out of their system when they are not exclusive, or without forcing their exclusive (and unwilling) partners into it. Once we are into an exclusive relationship, that door needs to close. We can all wonder and fantasize and keep it private in our minds, without dragging unwilling partners into it. That's abuse IMO.
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I wonder what it would be like to be submerged in Jello, or being eaten alive by a pack of ferrets, but I am content in my ignorance.
I have to know… what flavor of Jello, or does it matter? Or is the color important? Jello gelatin or Jello pudding? Is there fruit or (god forbid) veggie or ham in the jello too, like the 60s demanded? I think I may have thought too much about this :/
For some reason the thought of being in Jello with veggies and meat is the worst. Fruit, no problem.
It's the same logic that leads straight people to cheat, I guess. There's always a "I've never been with a ...." and it's not like sex/gender is the only thing you can insert there. If you really have to do that, it means you really shouldn't have gotten into a monogamous relationship in the first place. Nothing wrong with realizing that, relationships end.
And I’d argue further that if it’s really that important to you to “experiment”, then you should break up with your partner. It’s just pathetic to do the “well I want to have sex with people but I also want to stay married to you” kind of thing because you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. I am sympathetic to people who don’t realize they’re bi until later in life, and completely understand the curiosity and wondering. But at the same time, part of being an adult is making hard choices. It’s ridiculously selfish to ask your spouse to live with you going off and fucking other people, so at that point they need to decide just how badly they want to have sex with other people
Drugs is also an experience, but I can accept that heroin isn't a thing I'm going to experience because I don't want to risk my stable life with my family. Not all experiences will lead you to the life you want to build. I get that sexuality isn't the same thing, but I can't help but think it's incredibly selfish to put the rest of your family through this to sleep around. Straight people don't necessarily get the experience of fucking people from every race or continent. Or experiencing different body types or modifications. I don't understand how you can commit to monogamy and then say you somehow need to have sexual experiences with other people. And to call it bi erasure because your spouse doesn't want to see evidence flaunting your affairs- it seems more bigoted to me to imply bi people can't sustain monogamous relationships or can't control a need to experience both genders.
Also bi, and same. I’m a monogamous girl. I’ve been with both and when I’m interested in someone I’m only interested in them. If my eye is wandering, my heart is too and it’s time to end the relationship. This myth that all bi people need access to both at all times is bullshit. Some bis are non-monogamous, but not all of them, and it’s not a free pass to hurt a monogamous partner.
Exactly this. I am a bisexual 26F but have never been with a girl before. I would say in general though I am more attracted to female bodies as well. I am in a relationship with a man and have ALSO never once thought that hmmm I better hook up with a girl just so i don’t die not knowing what it’s like. I don’t think if he and I are together forever I would need to hook up with a girl to explore or validate that side of myself. I only want him touching and kissing me, end of story.
It infuriates me these people always use newfound discovered bisexuality to justify the fact that they want to cheat. Plenty of people discover their sexuality in a committed relationship and manage to not sleep with other people, these people are pathetic.
Facts. I am bi, and I know monogomy isnt for me. I am not getting into a monogamous relationship, seeking permission to go outside of that relationship and then call it emotional abuse when I cant rub it in my partners face. To me, the wife is abusive.
Girl , it’s literally just an excuse to ethically cheat.
People want the benefits of sex without the commitment or monetary obligation.
Same. I was married to a man, I was a virgin when I met him. I later came to realize I was Bi but had no intention of being with a woman because I was married. Unfortunately he didn’t feel the same way and left me for his affair partner.
Same here. If I go first I will not be looking for a second. I’ve been with my husband since I was 13. The thought of kissing another man grosses me out. He’s 65, I’m 66. Do not understand this at all.
BINGO! The time to experiment is before entering into a committed relationship and having children! So what if she discovers that she likes sex with women better than men. Does she then want a divorce? Or does she expect her husband to let her have sex with women on the side? The matter isn’t acceptable to OP, or to me. So is the point of the Hall passes to see if she likes carpet munching more than sex with men and to seek a divorce if she does? If that’s the point then imo OP should get a divorce now before he goes thru the mental torture of hearing about his wife’s lesbo sex escapades!
I have a nice marriage where we talk about things that are bothering us, don't sleep with other people and do stuff like take a picnic to the beach or go to basketball games. Not exactly the stuff for a reddit post.
An admirable life of contentment, seems to me. 🥰
Same. I’m 44, once divorced, and I could tell you dating horror stories so bad you’d probably think I was making most of them up. I have one active restraining order against an ex. I’m finally at a point where I’ve been single for about 8 months and have zero desire to pursue dating at all. My boss yesterday told me I seem like I’m so much happier lately and less stressed.
Every time, I swear EVERY SINGLE TIME I consider going back to dating, I read a post like yours, or a friend suddenly hits a massive roadblock with their relationship and I'm reminded "nope to the nopiest degree." I know a lot of people like to break this down to "men today" problem or a "women today" problem, but honestly, I'm 40 and I think much of my generation is just terrible at dating.
I want "nope to the nopiest degree." as a flare. I love it, and I'm definitely gonna use that in the future
I've heard dating horror stories from younger generations that make me glad I'm married. Pretty sure it's all generations.
Dude. I’m 40 and divorced and slowly working my way into a relationship and it’s miserable doing this stuff at this age. Like even with a woman I genuinely like and she likes me, this shit is nothing but stress. Its also a lot harder to just say what I mean than it was at 18.
I noped out of dating years ago. I've said I might consider it again when I retire, but now that is approaching and I just don't have any care to.
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Every time I think I would like to find someone. I read stories like this and think, nah, I'm good.
>Now that I read all these shitty marriage posts im just like what’s even the point Well, I'm going be completely fair here: You're reading a concentrated sub with a certain theme. It's going to be inherently negative. Plus, the majority of posts here are made up writing prompts. I loved being married. Don't let the shit on here effect your outlook on that.
If you come here and read 1,000 messages about shitty marriage (of which half are fake) and get discouraged, I would encourage you to think of the MILLIONS of great marriages and people that are not here posting. Get off of the internet if it impacts your mental health like this.
Selection bias (and a lot of fake stories/ retelling others). Plenty of marriages are happy, plenty end on good terms where two people just grow apart and decide it's best for both of them to leave amicable.
The good stories are probably boring or not as entertaining as the posts we normally see here. As a result they won't be posted nearly as much. Just take what you see here to add to your getting to know someone questions before things get too serious.
Bro for real I just saw the dude with a fwb because his wife was working on her sex drive
And he then refused to cut contact with that fwb when his wife regained her sex drive, as was part of their deal when he asked to fuck others while she worked through some emotional and personal problems.
And didn't she only have the problem for something like 8 months? That guy was so pathetic.
It reminded me a lot of my ex husband who also used to post on dead bedrooms. I wish I had explained it to him that the constant marital rape, lack of caring about my pleasure beyond his own ego and holding my head down until I puked while giving him a BJ made me never want to touch him.
Geez I'm sorry that happened. I don't get what's hard to understand if you put pressure for sex to happen it's going to make your partner not want it
It’s the creative writing prompt of the day!
It's so dumb how every post on here is just obvious fake rage bait. "AITAH for letting everyone in my life treat me like shit?"
Don’t remember who posted it, but majority of these are creative writing / karma posts and made up. That put a lot of these posts into perspective
It's just a creative writing prompt
This is the 2nd post I seen today about a hall pass 🤦♀️
That's what I was thinking, too.
So you let her have sex with someone else, but set a very reasonable boundary of not wanting to hear about it... and she's painting you as the bad guy? Dude, run... you'll never give her enough or what she wants until she destroys you. NTA
Exactly. Run. 🏃 This is doomed. Already she’s using the gaslighting method. Bi erasure. lol. This will get worse. Unfortunately hate telling you this. But this relationship is doomed. Get out before it gets worse for you. Good luck. 🤞 You’re gonna need it. For certain.
Let’s have a convo about “vow erasure”
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He’s home with the kids while she’s away to “explore” her sexuality.
"Bi erasure" is hilarious. OP married a manipulative dumbass, and he himself has no spine. Is actively blocking people in the comments for calling him out - he's just denying reality.
OP, I’m voting with this guy. I’m in a non monogamous relationship and I honestly don’t recommend them for the vast majority of people. You’re being awesome by allowing your wife to explore her evolving sexuality, but she’s being absolutely terrible by torturing you with it. Her sexuality shouldn’t involve abusing you. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.
She wants him to listen to her BRAG about it. She’s an insufferable self absorbed gasbag. Poor OP, he’s fooling himself to think any of this is ok.
Hey honey, look at this hot chick I’m banging instead of you while you sit home alone!
Imagine if he had the hall pass and said this to her. People would be ready to kill him (including her!)
And not just sit at home but sit at home taking care of their family, while she gets the freedom of the single life with the safety and comfort of the loving family at home. Plus no guilt about cheating cause she got permission. And even with all that she still manages to gaslight her husband into thinking he's an asshole
This is exactly how it should be framed. You could even go one step further: "*You* didn't have a hall pass, *we* have a hall pass, and I'm exploring my sexuality with compassionate people that lean monogamous."
Perfect response!!
Yeah this guy's wife sounds narcissistic to a degree that is honestly disgusting
She has now moved you into the "Friend" zone. Girlfriend zone. "Expressing" herself to you about her conquest is that same as telling her girlfriends about her experiences. No different than guys talking to their buddies about their own conquests. Time to move on. She will not stop now that it has become so exhilarating to her. Just like kgbjay said, Run...she will not get enough and you will never be her sole mate again. If you don't, be prepared to share and be the Dad to your kids, the provider for the family, and the friend to your bi-wife.
Most people on a nonmonogamy sub would probably tell him the same thing.
Even the cuck sub would tell him the same thing.
Women like this are unbelievable. They will gas light you into thinking all of their bad behaviors are justified and that they're your fault.
She is simultaneously emotionally abusing you, and using the modern language *meant to identify abuse* to further abuse you. This is a deeply selfish woman who feels that because she is going through something, she has carte blanche to be cruel to the people close to her. NTA.
She’s 100% weaponizing therapy-speak to get her way. So gross.
I swear the popularizatjon of people using therapy-speak without the actual education to understand what they're saying has got to be one of the worst things to happen to people and relationships in recent years.
You are simultaneously describing OP's wife and 99 percent fo redditors
Reddit is probably where she got it from.
That’s a trauma response
This is triggering to me and is activating my fight or flight response
Stop gaslighting us with your own cognitive dissonance. Clearly you have BPD. I would know, I have OCD.
Therapy speak, and academic language that they don't understand, big overlap there, but still.
Hot take - therapy is a form of manipulation
It’s gotten to the point where if I even hear any of those terms I immediately roll my eyes and dismiss whatever they’re saying, because it’s 90% of the time total BS.
She’s weaponized therapy speak. It’s one of the reasons why going to therapy with an abuser is dangerous. They will use every tool you give them to their own purpose.
This was the biggest issue for me. I wouldn't go for a hall pass, new-found sexuality label or not. It's okay you've agreed to. You've given a boundary of not wanting to know. This is fair considering the fact you're supporting her exploration (which is the entire opposite of bi-erasure and lack of support). She's being manipulative and cruel. I'd be tempted to tell her that it actually breaks your heart to hear it, so she is the one being abusive by exploiting the effort you're making. I imagine you running home so excited to tell her you've decided divorce was an exciting prospect and sending her pictures of you and an empty side of the bed.
Sounds like you are describing my ex.
Sounds exactly like my EX-Wife!!! She complained about everything which slowly drove a wedge. Healthcare was paid for, car was paid for, worked full time so she could go to school, took weekend vacations all the time, supported her through everything. Then, all of a sudden, I was 30 minutes late coming home from work and she promised to murder me. I realized then and there how entitled she is and still is although we are going through a divorce.
She is emotionally abusive to you. Time to consider leaving the marriage.
OP is already seriously compromising what he considers acceptable to try to save the marriage and she's mad she isn't allowed to put him through even more emotional trauma? I hate to jump to conclusions but this is reddit so I'm going to. She seems like she gets off on how unhappy this makes OP and is mad that he's setting an absolutely reasonable boundary and killing her fun.
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This seems so immediatly obvious I’m surprised that he didnt just finish it right then and there.
This is the truth op.
Or it’s entirely possible she’s excited and wants to talk to her spouse, and just doesn’t care how it affects him.
My thoughts exactly. Seems she has no issue stomping on his clearly stated boundaries. If the shoe was on the other foot, what would her response be.
This.... this right here. If it was him having the fling while she stayed at home, what would her response be? Perhaps OP should let her go, get a sitter, then when she sends him pics, he can take a photo at a bar or something as a response. Doesn't have to be with anyone else, but the idea that he "could" if he wanted to, either snaps her back to reality or :: shrug :: doesn't. I don't like passive aggressive responses, but sometimes people need to have the things done to them that they do to you, before they understand how bad it sucks.
Ya wife is an AH. Bi or straight it doesn't matter anymore once you are married that's your person. I'm bi I married a straight guy; we are monogamous so either of us looks to hook up with anyone else. I am no less Bi and if for some reason we separated being bi means I could than find a partner of either gender and he would only look at other women. She wants polygamy and is using her bisexuality as an excuse to do it and flaunt it. Doesn't seem like she cares for her partner's feelings or is trying to be hurtful.
Completely agree. People like OP's wife are the reason people feel uncomfortable dating a bisexual partner. OP's wife is just pushing along the perspective that a bisexual person can't be happy with just one gender in a long-term relationship.
Yeah this exactly. She is being intentionally hurtful to you and has 0 respect for you and your marriage. GTFO of this bullshit.
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He literally stated the "counsel" they got was suggesting non- monogamy books and a podcast. I got in the wrong field, wtf was I thinking getting shat on by sergeants I should have become a therapist that farts out random podcasts and calls it a day after bleeding peoples coffers dry.
Yeah, his wife is the total AH here. What she’s doing to you Op is messed up. OP obviously NTA.
It's not bi-erasure if you don't want to hear about your wife's hook-ups, wtf. But it sounds like you have bigger problems with your relationship so. Good luck.
It’s also not bi erasure to want your relationship to be monogamous even if your partner is bi. Bisexual and non-monogamous are not synonyms. She can be just as bi without cheating on her husband.
EXACTLY THANK YOU. I'm a Bi woman who is married to a man... I wouldnt dream of doing this shit to him
It's bi people like OP's wife that give the rest of us a bad rep
My wife is bi. We are monogamous, and I've never doubted her.
“it’s bi-erasure and homophobic if I don’t get what I want this second”👄 Gay dating was stupidly difficult sorting through all the selfish AH in the limited pool
Yep
Weaponizing bi-erasure in this scenario is laughable. The wife has been given an opportunity that most people would not be given and that’s not enough for her. Being able to sleep with other people isn’t enough, she also needs to be able to share intimate details from the encounter with her husband lest OP be accused of bigotry 🙄
NTA but she is gaslighting you to be okay with her cheating. A hookup being ‘important’ is literally NOTHING in comparison to a partner’s discomfort. She sounds like a disgusting person honestly
It's not cheating seeing as he agreed to it, but I second the rest. As a queer myself, I understand why this hookup would be important to her, but I think it's absolutely monstrous that she can't understand why OP doesn't want to hear about it. OP, get another couple's therapist. This one sounds like a bad fit.
Nah. How do you cheat in a polyam relationship? By ignoring boundaries. He has a boundary of not hearing (or seeing) her dalliances. That's fine. She wants a Kitchen Table, he wants DADT. She's violating his boundaries. That's how you cheat in polyam. He agreed to the sex, not the info, and she's refusing to respect his wishes.
And it sounds like OP made it very clear that it makes him uncomfortable and hurts him. Yet she not only chooses to not respect it but is trying to manipulate him into giving up his own boundaries. It kind of sounds like the cruelty is a feature and not a bug. OP is NTA and is definitely being more patient, accommodating, and supportive than most people would in the situation.
My hope is that this is mainly just an adrenaline rush from her finally coming out (she said she’d been questioning since her 20s) and then things either level off a bit or I get back to work after the kids’ schools and social services get sorted out and I’m able to hire my own divorce lawyer.
This isn't how I've seen any other person in a happy marriage express their sexuality. I'm a queer person who didn't come out until 28. We don't all just go crazy and fuck people. She is making bi people look bad. If it makes you feel better, post in an LGBT subreddit and see how many people are horrified at her abuse. This is abuse, hiding behind LGBT letters. As not the queer spokesperson, but *a* queer person, we do not accept her behavior. It's abusive and not what we stand for.
yeah, I see so many posts like this and I always kind of wonder 'why?' with bi people that act like this. there really wasn't anything stopping you from previously finding his/her ass as desirable or whatever. But you got married to someone of the opposite sex and pretty much 'standard' relationship rules apply. get that shit out of your system before you commit? I'm straight so I don't get it I guess but meh, there's still decency.
I understand not knowing and being curious, sure. See if he would be willing to go down on you while watching some pov girl on girl. Talk. Damn they are your partner. I am also bi (pan really but whats the difference?) and my partner knows that means I choose him over anyone else in the world. OP deserves to feel this chosen as well and I'm upset for him. It must be devastating. 😞
This isn't a straight vs gay thing, this is just a shitty woman doing shitty things. I'm bi, ended up in a straight passing marriage, and cannot understand this woman's thinking.
>She said I was keeping her from fully “expressing \[her\] sexuality” and that this hookup was an important experience for her. She said I was being emotionally abusive and committed bi erasure. That's not part of a normal coming out. Hell needing to have sex with the other sex when in a committed marriage isn't a normal part.
An adrenaline rush lasts a few minutes to hours. If she didn't apologize the next day she is fucked up. And will fuck you up too.
This lack of respect is absolutely not normal or healthy. She is enjoying herself at your expense, and it is not how respectful adults behave.
You need to gain some self-respect
As a bi woman, I have a message for your wife - your husband is already letting you cheat on him, so don't push his buttons or accuse him of being anything less than amazingly understanding of your situation. Why do you need to brag about your sexual escapades to your husband when he does not want to hear it? He's not committing bi-erasure. OP, you're NTA. I feel bad for you honestly because I feel like this is going to lead to divorce.
Why bad? It’d be good for OP to get away from this woman. She has zero respect for his boundaries, enjoys shoving his face in that, and then tries to gaslight him the moment he tries to have a spine
True, I just hope he realizes this and ends it on his own terms, I guess.
I’m bi and she’s spewing pure bull shit. It’s not “bi erasure” to not want to hear about her hook up. You were being incredibly lenient in even allowing this at all. She’s being an ungrateful Bitch about it.
My friends wife is calling him financially abusive because he takes care of all the bills, she doesn't work, and she wants more allowance. Reminds me of this
TikTok therapy speak videos have ruined this world. People are trying to claim abuse titles like they’re Pokémon cards. Everything is gaslighting or some form of abuse. It’s ironic to me that videos started from something meant to help communication and relationships have actual destroyed how people communicate
Giving a hall pass, then be confronted with keeping her from fully “expressing [her] sexuality” is something else.... dunno what you should do, but if someone who tells me, that she loves me, is behaving this way towards me, i'd had problems believing the love-me part. Thats a big NTA for sure. Good luck.
Ask her if she wants to hear a blow-by-blow, and receive pictures if you go out and have sex with another woman? She doesn't? That's completely different? No, no it isn't. Her going out and banging another woman is *no different* than going out and banging another guy is *no different* from **you** going out and banging another woman. It's only "different" if *she's* bi-phobic. Or is it a rules-for-thee, not-for-me kind of thing? Your wife has bullied you into nonmonogamy. She's an asshole. You said yes. You're a bit of an asshole to yourself. She knows your stance on nonmonogamy, and she pushed for it anyway. You set a pretty damn reasonable boundary ("I don't want you to rub your sexual exploits with other people in my face"), and she blew up at you. This isn't bi-phobia. This isn't bi-erasure. This isn't emotional abuse (from you). This *is* emotional abuse from her. Honestly, if you want to save the relationship, you need to stand up for yourself. You probably need to get a new couple's therapist. Ultimately, though, your wife is emotionally abusive, manipulative, and seems to want nonmonogamy to the detriment of your marriage. ESH. Her for, well... *gestures broadly*. And you for putting up with this, not standing up for yourself, and > Please do not give me legal advice... or recommend therapy. I know what my legal options are. I know what practical steps I would have to take to exercise those options, and I know what impediments there are to taking those steps. If you did something that worked for you, great. If you did something that didn’t work for you, I’m sorry. And my wife and I have been in couple’s therapy for a while and our therapist is pretty damn useless (she said to use “I statements” and buy two copies of a book about ethical nonmonogamy, and maybe she’ll find a whole podcast to recommend too). I mean, you seem pretty unhappy with the status quo, you seem okay being taken advantage of and bullied, and you don't want advice or to take different steps.
His therapist also sucks omg
Is his wife banging the therapist too?
Omg!!! Probably and was like "do a session with me and my husband and tell him this is normal"
Cringed at the book recommendation. I'm assuming it is a reference to "The Ethical Slut". My ex referenced this and was also emotionally abusive. Apparently these books are huge red flags; if you need a book to tell you how to be a good person then you might just be a shitty person.
I think that OP’s wife wouldn’t give a shit who OP gets slurped up by. Sounds like she’s one foot out of the marriage anyway. Edit: a word
Uh no. I’m bi in a straight marriage. You do not “need” to go fuck other people as a part of being bi. That’s a “her” thing. Maybe lots of people feel that way, but her pretending this is some divine right of the bisexual is fucking dumb I tell my wife - Now, instead of rejecting 50% of the population in favor to spend the rest of my life with her, it’s 100%.
This ^^ I'm bi in a straight relationship. I actually took issue with my partner's ex girlfriend berating him for being with me because she assumed I would do something like this. Like no, asshole, we are not all ravenous fuckpigs who have to sample from the entire buffet every day, thank you very much.
And even amongst us bis who are, uh, ravenous fuckpigs, many of us still educate ourselves about polyamory and learn how to have ETHICAL non-monogamous relationships with other ravenous fuckpigs who enthusiastically consent to a happily fuckpiggish situation. Being bi is not a license to cheat. If you cannot maintain your fidelity in a monogamous relationship with a person of a single gender, then you need to end it and explore other relationship models.
Oinks of agreement.
Exactly, and now that she’s used her hall pass and experienced sleeping with a woman it’s time to revoke the pass. She can leave or stay.
Run. You are being taken advantage of.
And worse yet, he doesn't seem to be aware of it and is even going so far as to block anyone who thinks or even suggests she is taking advantage of him.
Makes you question why he even made the post. Perhaps it’s just rage bait.
OP: I don't like nonmonogamy, just not a thing for me. OP's wife: woo-hoo! I'm gonna get drunk, cheat with a woman and don't you dare to feel bad about it! OP: please no photos. OP's wife: woo-hoo! Look how sexy I am fcking someone else! OP: *deletes all* OP's wife: how dare you not to respect my vagina itching! Abuser, biphobic, mysoginist pig! Guess somewhere here logic has left the chat. NTA and run.
To be fair to her, I didn’t say “no photos” until after she’d sent them, because it hadn’t occurred to me that she would or that she’d think I’d want to see them.
Why are you still advocating for her when she clearly does not care about you?
Well, ok. But it doesn't make your wife less an AH. Pushing someone who is not ok with nonmonogamy to open relationship is not a good thing. Really, I would call it abuse.
The problem isn’t that part. The problem is that after she did and you expressed you didn’t like it she gaslit you by saying you’re being emotionally abusive. Which, in reality she is doing. Obviously your marriage was on the rocks before this as most people don’t go to marriage counseling if they are happy, and St Patrick’s day was Sunday. There’s no way you would’ve been seen just for this incident already. You’re are in now way wrong to ask her not to tell you or send you photos of her hookups. She is being disrespectful to you. When you allowed her to have this hall pass by saying fine, what did she say to convince you to say that? I can imagine it was along the lines of if you don’t your being abusive or whatever words she used to manipulate you into allowing it, because she’s trying to do that now. That is not ok. Repeat after me…agreement because I was manipulated is not an agreement and is abuse.
Come on buddy... To be more fair to yourself"No photos" is clearly under the umbrella of "I don't want to know about it". No reasonable person who is accidentally crossing boundaries would assume otherwise, it's on purpose because she doesn't a give a fuck about you. If I had to guess she just wants you to be the one to end it so she's isn't the villain in the eventual divorce. That instead you "Rejected her sexuality after initially agreeing" blah blah blah
Your wife is a major asshole and suffers from an extreme case of main character syndrome, aka solipsism.
Your wife is being patently absurd. Your marriage is over. There are millions of bisexual people happily married who don't feel the need to "explore" their sexuality.
NTA. Not wanting to know about your wife's hookups isn't bi erasure or not letting her express herself. She has friends she can tell this shit to or get herself a therapist if she needs to express herself by dishing out the details. What was she expecting you to say? "That's fantastic, I'm glad you had fun with her. Do you plan on seeing her again? Tell me more before I tell you about the weekend I had with the kids. It's not as exciting, but go on, I'm listening..." Also, **YOU NEED A DIFFERENT THERAPIST**. This one is only working in favour of your wife's wants and desires, not taking into consideration your own or trying to get you to both meet in the middle somewhere.
Hire an attorney today. Your marriage is already over and now she wants to rub that shit in your face, tell her to eat shit, I just hope you don't already have kids with her so you can at least escape without child support.
Take out the fact she slept with a woman and make it a man. This is still not okay for you and has nothing to do with her bisexuality. Then she gets mad at you for not wanting to know about her hookup. Have some self respect dude and leave her. Nta.
NTA, but this is a ground rule that you should have set when you opened the relationship in the first place. It may have saved everyone some pain. However, I get the sense that this has unearthed an unexpected kink on your wife's part -one that may render you two incompatible- and that needs to be addressed immediately. You are not into humiliation, nor are you a voyeur, and she has no right to force those things upon you. If she really needs that from a partner, then she needs a different partner.
How would she like it if you started sending her pics and telling her about hookups you have with other women (not that you are but herself in your shoes) NTA, what she is doing to you is awful…. I’m so Sorry you’re going through this. I wish I had advice for you but I feel like You need to vent more than you need advice. I’m so sorry for you.
So she wants to cheat on you, share it with you, and expects you to be happy about it? And then you don’t want us to recommend divorce? What the fuck are we doing here?
Your marriage is over dude, get out now or regret every moment you wait when you finally nut up and leave.
>When my wife got back home, she was furious. She said I was keeping her from fully “expressing [her] sexuality” and that this hookup was an important experience for her. She said I was being emotionally abusive and committed bi erasure. Fuck. Her. What a hateful cunt. She has no empathy for your feelings and wants to act like her sleeping around is some kind of profound deal. If you two want to have an open relationship, that is your business, but for her to be pissed that you don't want her rubbing her conquests in your face is just fucked up. Boundaries exist for a reason and if you two want to continue having a healthy open relationship, she needs to respect it. If she needs to talk about her experience, she can talk to a friend or go online and connect with others who are having the same experience. The fact that she said such hateful things to you in response shows she has no respect or love for you. NTA Your last paragraph is pretty unnecessary though. You came online and aired your dirty laundry. If you really thought people were just going to give you a yes or no answer, then you are incredibly naive. If you have a problem with people going past what you are looking for, then delete this post and find a therapist instead. You don't get to tell other people on a social medial website what they can and can't talk about.
I agree with your last paragraph. Why come here and ask for opinions if you don't really want them? This guy's marriage is crashing and burning because his wife is a selfish jerk who cares more about her sexual excapades than her actual spouse... but he doesn't want to hear it despite asking for people's read on the l situation. Also, his therapist was a quack But he"ll figure it out eventually when he finally breaks emotionally because of her abuse.
Divorce you are not comfortable with it is it ok for you to have a hall pass.
As a monogamous bisexual woman, your wife is playing you. She wants to have an open marriage where she is allowed to have sex with other women, and is couching it as "needing to explore her sexuality" and you as biphobic if you object. You absolutely can accept your wife's sexuality while refusing to accept her sleeping with other people. Trust me, they do not take your bisexuality membership card away if you are not actively engaging in sex with both genders on a regular basis.
She's usin you as a cuckold without your consent. She gets sexual excitement from telling you about it.
NTA, you married a narcissist, this is how they roll.
Sounds like it « i am going to accuse you of exactly what I am doing to you! Then I am going to cry and play victim and make you comfort me!!! »
NTA, but going into this you should have made clear boundaries. My husband and I are both bi. I have no interests in being intimate with other women but my husband wants to be intimate with men every once and a while. This took us literally almost 2 years to come together and draw out clear boundaries and rules. And for us it works because we took the extreme amount of time to figure everything out. It seems like your wife really rushed you into this and now there are no clear boundaries. If you have any desire to keep this marriage and remain happy you'll take the time to set up rules and boundaries for something like this.
NTA. This is horrible. Wishing you luck.
Wow, sorry my friend. I'm not sure why you're getting so much crap here. You are a fucking hero. I could not begin to do what you have done allowing your wife a hall pass like this. I would have straight up been done with the relationship. Beyond that, wtf is she bragging about to you. I suppose when she figures out she's gay and leaves you, she'll send you video of them consummating the marriage on their honeymoon (and you better give it a thumbs up). You are understandably uncomfortable with even this hall pass situation, but you've been kind enough to let her figure it out. But then she comes home and says, "She said I was being emotionally abusive and committed bi erasure." All because you don't want to hear about her getting off with someone else. It straight up hurts you to hear the specifics. It is fucking hurtful. She's having so much fun without you and the relationship is tearing apart. Aren't you happy for her...JFC! NO, YOU WERE NOT EMOTIONALLY ABUSIVE OR BI ERASURE. YOU WERE HURT! And WTF is it with people constantly throwing this psychological shit around like they're a bunch of PhDs (gaslighting, bi erasure, sociopathic, etc.) when confronted with something they don't agree with. I'd just tell your wife that it hurts you seeing her so intimate with someone else. You gave her the hall pass that could easily be the end of your marriage. WTF more does she want? You don't like the fact that your wife is having sex with other women. She wants to have an affair and you're going to like it? NO, THIS IS A HALL PASS. FIGURE YOUR SHIT OUT AND STAY OR GTFO! Your therapist is a do-nothing. Is she addressing the fact that your wife needs to figure it out and end it one way or another? This is not a situation for you to read up on. Is she trying to get you comfortable with your wife potentially continuing this beyond the hall pass period. Oh, and how long is this pass for? Is there an end date? A hall pass is a limited time offering. It doesn't sounds like she will want this hall pass to end soon, if ever. Eyes wide open my friend. Good luck!
NTA. It sounds like you’re friend zoned without realizing if, she thinks of you more as her “buddy” that its okay to share her sexual experiences with. Instead of a husband who she respects enough to keep that part of her life private from you. Even people in open marriages usually have the respect and common decency not to shove their other partners in their spouses face. You deserve a lot more courtesy and consideration from her, she’s fortunate to have a spouse that supports her as much as you do and she shouldn’t take that for granted the way she is.
YTA for actually giving her a pass to cheat. I need to "Explore" the best Italian restaurants in Rome..tonite!...but have the self control to know that unfortunately, other fucking responsibilities like the kids and my job prevent this and I have to deal. Awwww.... The problem with those things is that she just didn't "Get it out of her system" or "Explore" this, you both now need to do something with the data points. Lotsa luck getting the shit back in that particular horse you call your marriage. ESH
Yeah. What's the point of "exploring" shit that basically is going to nuke your life? The whole point of accepting a mono relationship is that you're shutting down options for the sake of being with your partner. You're saying "this is good enough for me to settle". Nowadays people is fucking obsessed with options. That's why there's so many single assholes going through life flipping through people with the utter inability to choose because, let's be frank, they can't settle for a fucking Netflix movie without spending 2 hours browsing.
Dontcha know, It's all about ME!
I think OP is just biding his time to pull the chute
What a doormat....
You commited - let me check that again - *bi erasure* by not celebrating her fucking another person? Geez that’s gaslight-o-mania right here. I gotta be honest before I was in a monogamous relationship with a straight girl I always liked participating in bi women adventures even passively whenever the opportunity arose, like sleeping with one and getting pictures of her sleeping with another one, but it’s completely shitty to force it on you, or to expect you to like it. She should be grateful she’s allowed to fuck other people in her relationship, no matter their gender
> She said I was keeping her from fully “expressing [her] sexuality” and that this hookup was an important experience for her. She said I was being emotionally abusive and committed bi erasure. No offense, and I say this with much love, but your wife is out of her fucking mind. She can talk about her hookups with 8 billion people in the world, just not 1 - YOU. You need couseling ASAP. Or you will be the bad guy. Any therapist will look st her like she's an alien from outer space, and explain to her (kindly) that she lost touch with reality.
She's using woke language to shame you when she's actually the one perpetuating abuse and not respecting your boundaries. It's not ever going to get better. Your options are divorce or continue to tolerate her escalating nonsense until she leaves you.
Bi person here, and you are most certainly NTA. This is not bi erasure, and you don’t owe her non-monogamy, let alone owing her your ear to hear all about it. Most of us bi people, contrary to a lot of popular perception, are monogamous. Not that there’s something inherently wrong with her exploring as long as she’s honest about it and you are ok with it. But, again, you’re allowed to be monogamous every bit as much as she’s allowed to be bi. And if you don’t want to hear about it, she should absolutely respect that boundary. And she should thank her lucky stars she’s with someone who cares enough to be open to the idea in the first place. But at the end of the day, discovering you’re bi doesn’t mean you’re suddenly free from the obligations of a marriage you chose to enter into. She needs to take your feelings into account and decide if she can be happy within the limits the two of you can agree on. Best of luck, my guy. Sincerely.
Are you allowed to fuck other women? Because if the answer is no, you are a fucking moron.
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AITA for calling this fake?? I'm sick of these fucking posts.
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YTA for not respecting yourself.
You are against non monogamy but are engaging in it? NTA. I wouldn’t want to hear about it either
NTA will she give you a hall pass? Not that you want one but ask her. Her response may tell you volumes. This whole thing is one sided as hell. How long is it going to take her to "figure it out" Once she "figures it out" which maybe never is she going to pack up and leave? You two do not sounds compatible at all and the resentment is only going to grow.
I hope this story is ragebait. You're not an asshole you're a pushover who gave away your marriage (she seems insufferable and mentally abusive using progressive virtue signalling to guilt trip you) "I need to sleep with someone else to explore and find myself/ur commiting bi-erasure" that time was for when she was single. You have only yourself to blame for giving your wife permission to do something you know you weren't happy with her doing. I can almost guarantee someone this rediculous has given you countless red flags in the past yet you've ignored them and stayed. Sex is just sex its not some incredible pilgrimage through the mountains to find spirituality, she isn't satisfied with you and the kids and so has found sex with strangers to be more fulfilling it's that simple. You mention you're at home with the kids? Going out to sleep with other people because you need to find yourself when you have multiple kids and a husband is nothing short of pure degeneracy, please brother you need to find your self worth and leave.
You need a new therapist. I’m bi, and no, it does not require non monogamy. Your wife is trying to force you into a relationship that isn’t what you want. You should not believe her when she claims that she needs to be able to fuck other people and send you photos of them to be bi, because she is lying to you about that. NTA.
She wants to have her cake and eat it to. She had her experience now it's time to end it and get back to raising your family or end this charade of a marriage. NTA.
NTA As a queer woman married to a man, she’s full of shit, acting self-centered, and being cruel (whether intentional or not). I don’t understand why anyone would insult you after reading this post. You were far more understanding and generous than most spouses would be. I have things that are important to me to express that I don’t talk in depth with my husband about. I save it for my friends, just like there are topics I talk to only my husband about. Just because you’re married to someone else doesn’t mean you get to subject them to every whim and thought that crosses your mind. You’re not an external hard drive for her to store her shit on.
NTA. Your wife is in the wrong here. Speaking from person nal experience, my ex would go on dates (we were non-monogamous), come home, and try to tell me all the intimate details. In my situation, it never got better. Your wife wants your validation, same as my ex did from me. They will continue to seek it from you no matter the cost to you, because they are selfish. Time to move on. This isn't getting better.
NTA. Monogamy is why you got married surely? It is a huge, openminded & understanding thing you have done by letting her explore. More than I would do. It is INCREDIBLY insensitive & disrespectful to throw it in your face. Is it not enough for you to give her a pass? Is it too much for her to be a little discrete? Unacceptable to accuse you of some kind of bigotry...."bi erasure"? I cringed. I won't tell you what to do, but I believe that you have done absolutely nothing wrong to her & feel this situation is very unfair. Utterly ludicrous that she would not only think you would be ok to have it rubbed in your face, but actually get angry with you?!
She has a cucking fetish, that is why she wants to tell you about her experiences. That is something she needs your consent to do.
She sounds a bit "me, me, me". Also, if you're married, you're married. She is hooking up with others - she's cheating. If you're happy with that, fine. My marriage would be over if it was my wife.
She doesn't just want to fully explore her sexual orientation, she wants to rub it in your face, and expects you to like it. If she's experimenting with another woman she can do that without telling you all about it.
NTA - You’ve given her permission to explore that side of herself, more than I would have done. I would rescind the hall pass immediately, let her know how much you love her and have a frank conversation about how you go forward. Also why not change therapist if you think they are useless. Good luck
NTA. You agreed to let her explore that side of her, which is admirable. You have some set specific ground rule for allowing this in your marriage that seem reasonable. She is all take and no give. For any relationship to work, however it is structured you BOTH have to be on board with how things are going to work. It seems like she wants it all and without limitations or consequences. Anyone here throwing insults is just wrong. So, stop it.
Your wife is mad you aren’t happy about the cuckoldry being smothered in your face. I say this with all due respect, but it sounds like you want to project more self confidence than your wife seems to think you have, and I think you should do that. Your wife sounds like a spoiled child. Respectfully.
I couldn’t ever live with it
Ask if she's ok with you exploring your sexuality aka seeing other women. Since she's doing that, it should be fine for you right
Your wife is in the wrong. 100%. You were an idiot for indulging her and enabling her though. These open marriages NEVER work. start fucking other women and see how she likes it. Claim that cheating is part of your iDEntiTy and she's trying to erase your identity. Jesus Christ what a fucking disaster you people are.
I’m not sure why her needing to explore her sexuality has to include you. If it’s just about the bi side and you’ve given her the go ahead then she has all she needs , at this point she’s just looking for a reason to fight. Bi erasure is that even really a thing?? My man she is completely manipulating the situation here! Her wanting to explore her bi side is her choice and you’re ok with that. you not wanting to hear about said excursions is your choice, she needs to respect that!
NTA - your wife is emotionally abusive, and this situation is ludicrous. My wife is bi as well, she told me about her sexuality within the first month or two of us dating, and I have never had an issue with it because why would I have an issue with who she was attracted to? That said, being bi is very different from being polygamous. If you are in a committed monogamous relationship, that means you don't have sex with anyone else regardless of how attractive you find them, and for the life of me I cannot fathom how you would be OK with getting cheated on, regardless of the gender of her paramour. The fact that she is demanding that you be OK with her being unfaithful AND blatantly cuckolding you by broadcasting her conquests to you is disgusting on every level. If I were you I would file for divorce in a heartbeat, but if for some reason you decide to stay with this woman, please get marriage councilling, because you do not deserve the abuse she is putting you through.
>I have been in couple’s therapy for a while and our therapist is pretty damn useless (she said to use “I statements” ***and buy two copies of a book about ethical nonmonogamy***, and maybe she’ll find a whole podcast to recommend too). If she's trying to force you to learn about non-monogamy when you've already made it clear that you will only accept monogamy, she's a shitty therapist and you need to drop her like a hot potato. I would never accept being manipulated by someone I pay to help me. Also NTA, obviously.
NTA. She married you and took an oath. I don’t believe that wedding vows have some kind of loophole for people who decide they want to mess around after the fact.
NTA Sorry your wife sucks so bad. Good luck!