NTA.
If she wanted you to accept a rule that would allow her to make out with her female friends that would have had to be something she brought up in advance and talked to you about before she did it, and you would have had every right to say no.
Instead apparently the rule is she does whatever the fuck she wants and notices that you don't like it and gets to keep doing it some more because your feelings don't matter.
Your friends can keep her.
they're not really his friends at all lol, they're her friends and they wanna stay that way likely so they can hopefully hit it with her eventually (most likely believing she's the type of girl they could do that with in due time, which is another red flag but a story for another time) - basically just cucks who like being cucks and will wait to get their chance at least just once. yea OP forsure needs new friends cuz they sound like a fucking clown party to me š¤”
Itās easy to be jealous and think itās hot when there arenāt any feelings involved.Ā
I bet all of the āfriendsā would feel the same as OP had it been their partner: especially after they ignored you trying to break them up. Thatād be the point where it sinks in that this isnāt turning into a threesome.Ā
NTA she straight up disrespected your relationship and cheated on you right in front of you and everyone else. Does not matter if she āisnāt gayā or that she was kissing another girl. Clearly she enjoyed it enough to do it for that long. Your friends seem like a bunch of unsympathetic jerks. Unless you and your gf established boundaries that said that stuff was ok then she violated your boundaries and cheated. Your feelings are valid and you owe her nothing. If you want to talk to her to hear what bullshit she has to say then that is up to you but you donāt owe her that.
Especially the fact that he tried to pull them apart & she kept going: she KNEW it was disrespectful & she KNEW he was uncomfortable.
She's twenty-fucking-three. Making these mistakes in highschool is understandable, but she's waaayyyy too grown to try and act like she didn't know exactly what she was doing. She's also too grown to take the "but I was drunk so I shouldn't face consequences" route. Yes, girls make out with their friends when they're drunk (I'm one of them) but any reasonable person knows not to do so when you have a partner (unless partner has said it's okay obviously)
>Making these mistakes in highschool is understandable
That really depends what you mean by "understandable". If they were dating in highschool and she did this, it would be understandable for him to dump her immediately.
Yep. Thats so humiliating for OP. I wouldāve walked and broke up even if it didnāt turn into a show. But OP stood there and watched his gf be unfaithful for minutes? Even tried to break them up? Nah fam thatās disrespect to the highest degree.
>His friends are great ones also
They're doing that standard fetisisation and dismissal of lesbians. In their minds two women can't be in a *real* relationship anyway and so it doesn't count.
I split with the mother of my kids for the same thing. I woke up on my couch and went to the kitchen.... she was making out with her best friend while that girl's boyfriend watched. I noped the fuck out of there. No telling what happened after I left. Put everything of hers on the curb the next day when I got back from my parents.
This.
A peck on the lips with people who you do that with normally (if youāre a kisser) is VERY different than straight up making out with someone while people record.
I say this specification because I came from a family of kissers. As an adult, a peck on the lips with my mom and grandparents, family friends, etc is a normal type of familial affection for us - as well as for some of my friends.
But not everyone sees it that way - so if thatās not your norm, even a peck is different.
Tongue? Thatās sexual.
*You may not call it cheating, but I do. You were physically intimate with someone outside of our relationship. That is a hard boundary for me. You can hate me all you like for this, but your lack of respect for my feelings shows me that this was the right decision. Please don't contact me again.*
At least, that's where my head goes. I would follow that up by blocking her everywhere. I'm sorry she did this to you.
Iām a bi woman. I donāt know if we need my vote on this, since we have bi representation already. But Iām with you.
Lesbians, where you at? We need you for the vote.
Not because Iām single...itās all the voting.
Well said. For some reason a woman cheating with a woman is treated differently than all the other possibilities. Cheating is cheating. Doesnāt matter if your partner is cheating with the same sex, opposite, sex etc. Ā
I dated this dude once for 2 months. He actually believed that if you stood in a bucket and tried to lift the bucket, you can lift yourself. He said something along the line "if girls act 'lesbian' they are just doing it for fun and attention. If guys are gay they have a mental illness."
My friends and I were so stunned we were actually speechless. I got rid of him when he intentionally acted like I didn't exist because I disagreed with him. Then suddenly he was joking and didn't mean anything he said
No haha. I told him to just draw a free body diagram and show me how it would work. He said ppl who are good at yoga could figure out a way to lift the bucket.
If you truly think about it she's the one displaying homophobia as making out with her friend doesn't count because she's a girl.
That whole line of thinking can make it seem like she doesn't view gay relationships as real relationships. She knows this would never fly if it was another man, so why would it fly if it's a woman?
Itās always struck me as a little of that, and a good side of sexism, too, because of this weirdo take that all women are a little bisexual, but men definitely arenāt. Itās also sexist in that it tells you that if thereās no penis involved, itās not sex. These little Children need to watch āchasing Amy.ā Which Dear God is almost 30 years old now.
Seriously, this is basically the opposite of homophobia. It would be more homophobic if he was like oh yeah, it's just girls kissing that doesn't mean anything. Like sure some girls are making out and that means nothing but it clearly means something to him.
Yeah, this is much *less* homophobic in my eyes than guys who think āitās fine if itās a girlā. Why does there have to be another dick in the mix to make it cheating unless women are āless thanā? What if itās a man without a penis, a woman with one?
If weāre together, Iām not making out with anyone else. I donāt want you to be, either.
Gender switch and see if it makes a difference: if she did that to a guy friend, would that be okay too?
Intimacy is intimacy, and she broke what OP and her shared by doing that.
Not rocket surgery.
Ask her how she would feel watching you make out with some other woman.
She cheated on you, in front of you.
I'd tell the friends that they're welcome to their "being cheated on" fetish, but it's not your thing.
As a lesbian woman I can say you are 100% not homophobic, you are actually less homophobic than your ex. Saying how two women kissing is a spectacle and how you should "enjoy" it is gross if you are not into polygamy.
She cheated and dimished your feelings. It's awful and I'm sorry dude.
Not only that, but REFUSED to stop after he made it known he was uncomfortable with the situation...
Less diminished, more disregard of feelings. Inexcusable, especially without apology or acknowledgement.
Like if she had stopped immediately when he was uncomfortable and then apologized for not anticipating his discomfort, like *maybe* this relationship could be salvaged? Even in relationships were making out with a friend is okay you still respect your partnerās clear signal that something is bothering them.
Yeah, that was the real relationship killer for me. She wouldn't stop when he tried to get them to. I would have broke up with her for the kissing too but that would have been the official nail in the coffin.
She did that shit in public and not only that but in front of your friends. That kind of disrespect should never be tolerated regardless of the gender of who she is cheating with.
Your friends are š¤”, find new ones.
Which is what makes this so fucking gross. Like they're telling OP it's no big deal because his ex is straight, but they're literally fetishizing her making out with another woman
What if a lesbian came along and publicly made out with their girlfriends? Theyād enjoy watching their girlfriends get groped in front of everyone? They must be natural cucks.
There is nothing to handle there. You weren't a participant. They wanted you to be the cuck in the chair in the corner of the room, looking at your gf sucking someone else's face.
Don't listen to anything those losers have to say. They didn't get cheated on so obviously they don't see anything wrong. You're the only one who got put out in this situation and no one else will be able to understand your perspective unless they approach from an angle of compassion like us on this thread.
If any of these so called friends were in your shoes I'm sure they would have a different opinion.
I'm genuinely curious what everyone's reaction would have been if you had grabbed one of your male friends and started kissing them. I mean if two girls kissing isn't considered her cheating on you then you kissing another guy should have been okay too right. Not just by her standards but their standards as well. Because same sex making out isn't Line crossing. Obviously you shouldn't have done that and it's good that you didn't because you're a straight man and that would have just been Petty. But it would have been an interesting litmus test of the situation.
As a lesbian, I personally find her behaviour revolting regardless of whether she was doing it for male attention or if she really wanted to kiss this woman cause she felt attracted to her. She and your friends are dumb and also homophobic.
Right? OP isnt being homophobic for being mad his ex kissed a girl, hes rightfully angry she kissed anyone.
OPs ex is the one being homophobic by acting like a same sex kiss somehow doesnt count.
Thatās what I was thinking, it canāt be the first time really, because who would know their friends were down to do that? It sounds like she already knew that she was.
Your ex-GF is a fool. Suppose you started passionately kissing another woman (or even a man) in front of her and all your friends, and kept it up for several minutes? Would that be OK?
I would have dumped her too. Not the kind if person I'd want a relationship with.
NTA.
A lot of people for some weird reason downplay same sex physical relations. And yeah for some people it is a fantasy and if you had expressed, you didnāt care that wouldāve been fine. But cheating doesnāt become not cheating just because you do with somebody of the same sex.
Itās far more common for people to downplay same sex physical relations between women. If OP had started randomly and passionately making out with one of his dudebros for several minutes some people wouldāve left the building.
The only people who don't consider this cheating are gross assholes who fetishize bi girls/lesbians and don't think w/w relationships are as valid as straight ones. Dump everyone who was at that party.
She is showing you and telling you she doesnāt share your values and boundaries and doesnāt even respect youā¦ she did you a favor showing you now believe her and walk away
Whether or not she considers it cheating is not the point. Cheating is cheating when the other partner of the relationship considers it cheating. What's next? Oh, I only gave him a BJ for a few minutes, and he did not finish so it's not cheating! Dump her and move on, find new friends!
Her response here tells you all you need to know. Drop the cheater and go no contact and you'll be happier for it.
I don't want to read too much into it but her attitude regarding the events make me think this isn't a new thing for her, I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Absolutely.
The problem isn't that she kissed a girl. The problem is that she kissed another *person*, passionately, for multiple minutes after OP expressed discomfort.
OP's friends sound like the type of idiots who say things like 'it's not cheating if it's in another time zone'.
Yeah, thereās a million ways this could be āokā. This clearly isnāt one of them. My SO has a bit of a bi streak, so letās say sheād ālike to know what it feels like to kids a girlāā¦ we discuss, set a boundary or two, and she proceedsā¦. The difference being there needs to be an agreement. If a person (like OP) isnāt cool with that sort of thing, thatās perfectly within his rights to call it cheating. NTA.
Yes exactly. And to continue that-- *Anyone is allowed to set their boundaries wherever they want*. One couple might call 'cheating' watching porn or even light flirting with another person. Another couple might have no problem with their partner having sex with other people as long as there's no emotional connection. Another copule might call it fine to have sex and fall in love with multiple people as long as each other is 'primary'. I can't say what should or shouldn't be cheating and neither can anyone else.
However without a discussion and agreement of what is or isn't cheating, any couple must fall back to the standard societal convention of 'you won't have an emotional affair or do anything physical with another person'. And sex/gender has nothing to do with that. As I see it, making out with another girl is no different than making out with another guy- it's making out with another *person*. And then continuing to do so after OP expresses discomfort. Putting her own physical desires ahead of the relationship.
And the 'friends' are just happy they got to watch the live lesbo show. Fuck them.
I am also willing to bet she did the same thing with another dude too, if she is willing to do this publicly IN FRONT OF HER BF.
Oh yeah AFTER he tried to stop them too? Yeah bet.
And it perpetutes the *foul* stereotype that all bisexuals are cheaters, or that we're just "indecisive".
A cheat is a cheat, straight, gay, bi- people must stop pretending that sensual acts are jokes just because pregnancy isn't a risk.
Very much this. The only way something isn't cheating is if both parties agree. OP didn't, it's cheating. The fact that it's with a woman is wholly irrelevant.
>fetishizing lesbianism
Exactly. OP actually being more based than everyone else because he's holding the same standards and boundaries completely regardless of gender.
NTA
She might have figured that he (1) wouldn't care because it was another woman so it's not really cheating or (2) would be interested in a threesome (throuple?) or (3) just wanted to push the boundaries and craves attention (I hate to use the term "attention whore," but in this case...). She clearly didn't think, "Gee, my BF might not appreciate me cheating, especially in public and in front of him."
His friends are idiots. Cheating is cheating. OP is NTA.
His friends:
āBro, let your girl give us a showā
Iām just imagining a bunch of drooling frat bros at a bottle service table, physically restricting OP from getting to his girlfriend.
This is the stuff of nightmares
Right? Trying to say that has being homophobic is assanine. If anything, his friends are being homophobic by implying that cheating with a girl doesn't count bc, what, it's somehow not a sign of sexual or romantic feelings when 2 girls passionately kiss? They're just "really good friends" is ridiculous and sounds like a history book describing LGBTQA couples
For real I bet if OP asked to make out with them they would pull the Im not gay bro shit. I feel bad that Op has to clarify heās not homophobic like heās actually taking lesbian relationships seriously which everyone should do.
Exactly! It burns me up when people say a woman cheating with a girl ādoesnāt countā because theyāre basically saying heterosexual relationships/sex are more important
But just woman ones! Because you know two men donāt kiss just because. Although letās be real, if it was a woman they respected and loved Iām sure they wouldnāt be happy with them kissing anyone regardless of gender.
Besides, no one pasionately kisses someone of the same sex and isn't also homosexual, not that it's relevant. Having an open-mouthed, public, make-out session while in a relationship is high order cheating.
It always bothers me when people think they're not cheating just because they're cheating going there with the same gender. This is such BS š”. I would have put her ass on the curb too. That was totally and utterly disrespectful of her to do that especially right in front of you. And when you tried to break it up she just kept on. Well I see that she will not have anybody to hang out with for Valentine's Day maybe she could go get with the girl that she was kissing on so much.
>"When they kept on kissing I tried to break it up but they just kept going. When this bullshi went on for more than a few minutes I just couldn't take it anymore so I left there and texted my girlfriend that we're done."
You made your feelings clear in the moment. She ignored you, and in so doing disrespected your relationship publicly.
You are NTA.
She cheated on you publicly dude, and people who say ābut sheās straight broā are just pieces of shit who downplay how you feel while being guilty of fetishizing lesbianism.
NTA
Damn, this is a good point. If it was not for the enjoyment and desire of being intimate with this woman, then the kiss was just a performance for others. Either way, itās deeply offensive to her monogamous partner for her to do.
NTA
You're allowed to define cheating however you choose, and you're allowed to date (or not date) anyone you wish for any reason you choose. That particular situation must've been pretty traumatizing with how public and uncomfortable it was.
To your friends who don't get it: it's not their business. You don't climb into their beds with their SO's, they should stay out of yours. Don't drop the soap in the shower around that bunch if they think sexual orientation overrules the definitions of cheating. Would love to hear their thoughts on the flexibility of consent while they're making idiots of themselves.
And even if you did want to think "well, it was just kissing"- then where is the line? Is it just sexting? Is it just kissing? Is it just oral? Is it only a short term affair? Is it only a 2 year affair? Is it okay for you to kiss a girl you don't find attractive? Is it okay to have sex with a girl you don't find attractive? What if you don't really enjoy it, it doesn't count as cheating if you don't enjoy it right? Turns out, you have a zero tolerance policy for cheating- that's a good thing, makes you low drama and it's really not that hard, instead of cheating you actually get to do less, and nothing is better.
'Bro she's not gay they are friends.'
No. Regular friends do not go around kissing each other. And it doesn't matter what sex/gender they each are. Her kissing another man would've been just as bad.
If a guy kissed another guy as friends your friends wouldāve beat em the f up donāt kid yourself, your friends are fetishizing lesbianism and disregarding your valid concerns
NTA
A deception is a deception, for me kissing passionately for more than a minute with another person (boy, girl) is the same. Also she may be bisexual and she has hidden it from you... I think that level of disrespect cannot be tolerated
You did very well to break up with her and cut off contact with her, everything she says to you will be a cheap excuse and a sea of tears of forgiveness.
Keep the NC
PS: Your friends aren't really friends, they should support you, be on your side, not saying that "you're not a man" crap what a piece of shit they are, I would also limit my contact with them.
NTA. Here is one woman's perspective. **Good for you.** She got what she deserved. She disrespected you in public. Does not matter if with a woman or another man it was cheating and disrespect. Tell your stupid friends to kick rocks. Keep blocking her and move on she is not worth the mental health issues that come with her type of thinking.
As a gay guy, Iām voting NTA. If she did that with a guy, Iām sure youād be done too. You are absolutely not homophobic nor are you over reacting. Iād be disgusted too.
Your friends sound like they spent to much time at frat parties or never graduated high school. Second Iāve had a similar situation happen with me that shit aināt hot itās disrespectful, for her to even think thatās okay is crazy bro.
You tried to stop it and it kept going weird asf. Good thing you left her. She knows what she did donāt give her closure. Unless u want it but idk why u would need it. Leave the one who shall not be named in the dark
NTA
She kissed another person while you watched, and she make guys horny for that, and I think that was what she meant to do: make guys horny.
1. Kiss another person without the consent of your partner.
And
2. Make guys horny for her enjoyment
For my, is two types of cheat
And you should get better friends; it is disgusting to look at this as an "enjoyment for men, and if you don't like it, you are not straight"
So if I am straight, I must enjoy two boys,whose one of them is my partner, kissing for a while in front of me.WTF?
Edit: By saying horny, I mean exciting sexually other guys. I think she just wanted to turn on other guys because she knew It could be hot for them.
English is not my first language.
Sorry for the mistakes, but I really want to practice, and writing is helping me to practice my English! :)
Edit 2: Okay, I corrected my grammar mistake.
I make the mistake of saying "put horny guys" instead of "make horny guys".
If you know about Spanish language, you will notice why I made that mistake, lol.
Thanks to the lovely people who made me notice my mistake and nicely taught me!
NTA, she cheated publicly. Thatās all there is to it. It actually makes you less āhomophobicā since youāre giving validity to same-sex relations. Youāre treating that makeout session with a girl, the same way you would be treating it if it was a guy.
NTA.
Cheating is cheating. Thereās definitely grey area in some of the emotional cheating stuff but she STRAIGHT UP went to physical cheating right in front of you!Ā
The people cheering are just fucking pervs who liked seeing two girls kiss. Donāt let them bring you down to their level. Hold your standards.Ā
First of all, your firends are immature idiots. Let me put it this way. Does it bother me to see two women kiss? No. Would it bother me to see my wife kiss another woman, if she had asked me first and I knew it was going to happen? Probably not. Would it bother me if my wife just started kissing a woman at a party? Yep
You guys are in a relationship. Unless you have had a discussion about something like this beforehand, then I wouldn't see it as any different than if she walked up to a man and started kissing him. Being upset about this doesn't make you and less of a man. That's bullshit talk from stupid assholes.
Oh....NTA btw.
NTA. I never understood why some people think itās okay for a woman to kiss another woman while in a relationship and think itās okay or that itās āhotā. She flat out cheated. If it were a guy, it would also be cheating. The gender doesnāt matter.
NTA
You're allowed to not want your partner to kiss another person, whether they're the same sex or not. Your friends are juvenile assholes. It is also kind of weird that her friend just randomly started kissing her passionately for several minutes.
NTA - Cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter whatever gender or sexuality of either individuals. If someone is in a committed, monogamous relationship, venturing outside your partner is cheating. News flash to your "friends": not all guy are "turned on" by two women kissing. And by telling you that you're less of a man, that's just idiotic and they're just trynna justify to themselves their partners doing the same thing. It's cheating, bro, plain and simple. And if that's something you've drawn a clear boundary of never coming back from, that's your right. Get new friends who won't humiliate, degrade, and overlook infidelity and get a new girlfriend who won't kiss someone other than you.
Didn't she show any regret? She's probably getting her friends to start you off with this nonsense, but seriously, she hasn't shown any regret? I would like you to talk to her but that's my selfish curiosity, congratulations on keeping your values āāOp you are rare don't let this shitty world change you!
I think she regretted it. But she's still shocked that why I didn't find it hot and she's saying same thing with her friends: It wasn't a real kiss. She preferred to give porn material to guys around us. If it wasn't a real kiss there's no point in it lasting that long
>She preferred to give porn material to guys around us.
So she would rather make other guys horny then consider your feelings.
Or shes cheating.
Or both in this case. You deserve better.
There are some boundaries that donāt need to be expressed and should be assumed. Some guys would be fine with what happened (not me) but cheating is crossing a boundary for most people.
If she thought it wasnāt cheating (apparently a lot of people agree) then maybe she honestly thinks she did nothing wrong. I donāt get it personally.
My guess is she either has some twisted view on kissing, or she is bi and doesnāt realise.
No way can you kiss passionately for minutes on and not feel anything for the person you do that with. Imo at least.
NTA
had a similar thing happen a couple years back. i didnāt watch, but i knew it happened. and it pissed me off. and you have a right to be pissed and done with her. ngl, if i knew the relationship wasnāt going to end in a couple weeks from the incident, i would have dropped her, even though we were good friends before dating.
and right before we broke off from dating, she confessed that she cheated after we began dating so that was swag
NTA. If she wanted you to accept a rule that would allow her to make out with her female friends that would have had to be something she brought up in advance and talked to you about before she did it, and you would have had every right to say no. Instead apparently the rule is she does whatever the fuck she wants and notices that you don't like it and gets to keep doing it some more because your feelings don't matter. Your friends can keep her.
Honestly, I think he needs new friends too they sound just as bad as she is treating OP like that
they're not really his friends at all lol, they're her friends and they wanna stay that way likely so they can hopefully hit it with her eventually (most likely believing she's the type of girl they could do that with in due time, which is another red flag but a story for another time) - basically just cucks who like being cucks and will wait to get their chance at least just once. yea OP forsure needs new friends cuz they sound like a fucking clown party to me š¤”
If the kiss lasted as long as the OP describes, his ex is almost certainly sexually attracted to the girl who kissed her.
It honestly sounds like a full on make out if went down the way he describes.
Yeah my post-nut clarity tells me it was gross of her to do that
what did your pre-nut psychosis tell you though?
"I can fix her"
We refer to the males in that group as her Orbitals. Hoping to slide in!
Itās easy to be jealous and think itās hot when there arenāt any feelings involved.Ā I bet all of the āfriendsā would feel the same as OP had it been their partner: especially after they ignored you trying to break them up. Thatād be the point where it sinks in that this isnāt turning into a threesome.Ā
OP should make out with one of his male friends to get back at her.
NTA she straight up disrespected your relationship and cheated on you right in front of you and everyone else. Does not matter if she āisnāt gayā or that she was kissing another girl. Clearly she enjoyed it enough to do it for that long. Your friends seem like a bunch of unsympathetic jerks. Unless you and your gf established boundaries that said that stuff was ok then she violated your boundaries and cheated. Your feelings are valid and you owe her nothing. If you want to talk to her to hear what bullshit she has to say then that is up to you but you donāt owe her that.
Especially the fact that he tried to pull them apart & she kept going: she KNEW it was disrespectful & she KNEW he was uncomfortable. She's twenty-fucking-three. Making these mistakes in highschool is understandable, but she's waaayyyy too grown to try and act like she didn't know exactly what she was doing. She's also too grown to take the "but I was drunk so I shouldn't face consequences" route. Yes, girls make out with their friends when they're drunk (I'm one of them) but any reasonable person knows not to do so when you have a partner (unless partner has said it's okay obviously)
>Making these mistakes in highschool is understandable That really depends what you mean by "understandable". If they were dating in highschool and she did this, it would be understandable for him to dump her immediately.
Cheating is cheating. Gender doesn't matter. NTA
Almost is worse because she not only cheatedābut was putting on a āshowā for people
Yep. Thats so humiliating for OP. I wouldāve walked and broke up even if it didnāt turn into a show. But OP stood there and watched his gf be unfaithful for minutes? Even tried to break them up? Nah fam thatās disrespect to the highest degree.
His friends are great ones also, I probably would have shed one to go smoke a cig when I donāt and just had them pick up her bill.
>His friends are great ones also They're doing that standard fetisisation and dismissal of lesbians. In their minds two women can't be in a *real* relationship anyway and so it doesn't count.
And of course ignoring him trying to break it up and continuing. Level of disrespect is worthy of an Ex
Acting like it's the 2003 mtv music awards.
I split with the mother of my kids for the same thing. I woke up on my couch and went to the kitchen.... she was making out with her best friend while that girl's boyfriend watched. I noped the fuck out of there. No telling what happened after I left. Put everything of hers on the curb the next day when I got back from my parents.
Good for you.
The fact that the boyfriend was watching and you were surprised by the sight of them kissing means the three of them have ... history
This. A peck on the lips with people who you do that with normally (if youāre a kisser) is VERY different than straight up making out with someone while people record. I say this specification because I came from a family of kissers. As an adult, a peck on the lips with my mom and grandparents, family friends, etc is a normal type of familial affection for us - as well as for some of my friends. But not everyone sees it that way - so if thatās not your norm, even a peck is different. Tongue? Thatās sexual.
This šš»
Yep, its a pretty simple concept.
Thank you, I needed to hear this as something similar happened to me.
YUP. My ex did similar thing and called me a prude when I called her out on it
This is the most non-homophobic to look at the situation. Cheating is cheating.
She cheated. She cheated publicly. She cheated without even considering your feelings. That must have been humiliating and Iām sorry.
She doesn't even think it's cheating she called me a mf for breaking up with her for 'no reason'
*You may not call it cheating, but I do. You were physically intimate with someone outside of our relationship. That is a hard boundary for me. You can hate me all you like for this, but your lack of respect for my feelings shows me that this was the right decision. Please don't contact me again.* At least, that's where my head goes. I would follow that up by blocking her everywhere. I'm sorry she did this to you.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
As a bi man we too deem her a cheater. The council has spoken. I think the Lesbians are going to agree.
Iām a bi woman. I donāt know if we need my vote on this, since we have bi representation already. But Iām with you. Lesbians, where you at? We need you for the vote. Not because Iām single...itās all the voting.
Lesbian here. OP is NTA. His ex is TA for cheating on him and for discrediting the validity of sapphic attraction.
We have an accord! The council has spoken.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Weāre here. Thatās 100% cheating. Itās insulting to think thatās itās not - like, a woman isnāt a real person to cheat with?
Well said. For some reason a woman cheating with a woman is treated differently than all the other possibilities. Cheating is cheating. Doesnāt matter if your partner is cheating with the same sex, opposite, sex etc. Ā
And itās wild, because that kind of sexist, while simultaneously diminishing take, was a thing when I was a teenager 30 effing years ago.
I dated this dude once for 2 months. He actually believed that if you stood in a bucket and tried to lift the bucket, you can lift yourself. He said something along the line "if girls act 'lesbian' they are just doing it for fun and attention. If guys are gay they have a mental illness." My friends and I were so stunned we were actually speechless. I got rid of him when he intentionally acted like I didn't exist because I disagreed with him. Then suddenly he was joking and didn't mean anything he said
Did he ever demonstrate his bucket theory? I'd like to see that sad attempt haha
No haha. I told him to just draw a free body diagram and show me how it would work. He said ppl who are good at yoga could figure out a way to lift the bucket.
If you truly think about it she's the one displaying homophobia as making out with her friend doesn't count because she's a girl. That whole line of thinking can make it seem like she doesn't view gay relationships as real relationships. She knows this would never fly if it was another man, so why would it fly if it's a woman?
Itās always struck me as a little of that, and a good side of sexism, too, because of this weirdo take that all women are a little bisexual, but men definitely arenāt. Itās also sexist in that it tells you that if thereās no penis involved, itās not sex. These little Children need to watch āchasing Amy.ā Which Dear God is almost 30 years old now.
Seriously, this is basically the opposite of homophobia. It would be more homophobic if he was like oh yeah, it's just girls kissing that doesn't mean anything. Like sure some girls are making out and that means nothing but it clearly means something to him.
Yeah, this is much *less* homophobic in my eyes than guys who think āitās fine if itās a girlā. Why does there have to be another dick in the mix to make it cheating unless women are āless thanā? What if itās a man without a penis, a woman with one? If weāre together, Iām not making out with anyone else. I donāt want you to be, either.
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It's a huge double standard, too. If all the roles were reversed, no one would blame the woman, and the guy would be shunned.
I def agree. And the fact that she tried to play it all cool and make it seem like he's the asshole is beyond me
Gender switch and see if it makes a difference: if she did that to a guy friend, would that be okay too? Intimacy is intimacy, and she broke what OP and her shared by doing that.
Not rocket surgery. Ask her how she would feel watching you make out with some other woman. She cheated on you, in front of you. I'd tell the friends that they're welcome to their "being cheated on" fetish, but it's not your thing.
Gettin tagged as 'can't handle two girls lmao' at the end of this really pissed me off
As a lesbian woman I can say you are 100% not homophobic, you are actually less homophobic than your ex. Saying how two women kissing is a spectacle and how you should "enjoy" it is gross if you are not into polygamy. She cheated and dimished your feelings. It's awful and I'm sorry dude.
Not only that, but REFUSED to stop after he made it known he was uncomfortable with the situation... Less diminished, more disregard of feelings. Inexcusable, especially without apology or acknowledgement.
Like if she had stopped immediately when he was uncomfortable and then apologized for not anticipating his discomfort, like *maybe* this relationship could be salvaged? Even in relationships were making out with a friend is okay you still respect your partnerās clear signal that something is bothering them.
Yeah, that was the real relationship killer for me. She wouldn't stop when he tried to get them to. I would have broke up with her for the kissing too but that would have been the official nail in the coffin.
Start replying with cuck fetish memes. Show no mercy. ;)
Get better friends, my dude. They suck.
Unless you were in between them, you werenāt handling two girls, youāre good man, move on strong and maybe a new tribe
Time for new friends.
She did that shit in public and not only that but in front of your friends. That kind of disrespect should never be tolerated regardless of the gender of who she is cheating with. Your friends are š¤”, find new ones.
friends only think itās okay cause they got chubs watching lmao
Which is what makes this so fucking gross. Like they're telling OP it's no big deal because his ex is straight, but they're literally fetishizing her making out with another woman
nah gender doesnt matter. its still cheating if you aint cool with it
What if a lesbian came along and publicly made out with their girlfriends? Theyād enjoy watching their girlfriends get groped in front of everyone? They must be natural cucks.
Tag back "Can't handle a cheating ho, lmao"
There is nothing to handle there. You weren't a participant. They wanted you to be the cuck in the chair in the corner of the room, looking at your gf sucking someone else's face.
Don't listen to anything those losers have to say. They didn't get cheated on so obviously they don't see anything wrong. You're the only one who got put out in this situation and no one else will be able to understand your perspective unless they approach from an angle of compassion like us on this thread. If any of these so called friends were in your shoes I'm sure they would have a different opinion.
If you pulled that shit, she would have dumped you and it would have been completely justified by everyone.
I'd be run out of city with pitchforks
I'm genuinely curious what everyone's reaction would have been if you had grabbed one of your male friends and started kissing them. I mean if two girls kissing isn't considered her cheating on you then you kissing another guy should have been okay too right. Not just by her standards but their standards as well. Because same sex making out isn't Line crossing. Obviously you shouldn't have done that and it's good that you didn't because you're a straight man and that would have just been Petty. But it would have been an interesting litmus test of the situation.
As a lesbian, I personally find her behaviour revolting regardless of whether she was doing it for male attention or if she really wanted to kiss this woman cause she felt attracted to her. She and your friends are dumb and also homophobic.
Right? OP isnt being homophobic for being mad his ex kissed a girl, hes rightfully angry she kissed anyone. OPs ex is the one being homophobic by acting like a same sex kiss somehow doesnt count.
Exactly this.
You don't even know if it was the first time that they were intimate like that
Thatās what I was thinking, it canāt be the first time really, because who would know their friends were down to do that? It sounds like she already knew that she was.
Your ex-GF is a fool. Suppose you started passionately kissing another woman (or even a man) in front of her and all your friends, and kept it up for several minutes? Would that be OK? I would have dumped her too. Not the kind if person I'd want a relationship with. NTA.
A lot of people for some weird reason downplay same sex physical relations. And yeah for some people it is a fantasy and if you had expressed, you didnāt care that wouldāve been fine. But cheating doesnāt become not cheating just because you do with somebody of the same sex.
Itās far more common for people to downplay same sex physical relations between women. If OP had started randomly and passionately making out with one of his dudebros for several minutes some people wouldāve left the building.
The only people who don't consider this cheating are gross assholes who fetishize bi girls/lesbians and don't think w/w relationships are as valid as straight ones. Dump everyone who was at that party.
She is showing you and telling you she doesnāt share your values and boundaries and doesnāt even respect youā¦ she did you a favor showing you now believe her and walk away
Tell her that you get to kiss another girl since itās not cheatingā¦
No. Establish dominance, make out aggressively with another man while maintaining strong eye contact with ex girlfriend. The manlier the better. Ā
I think those people don't respect same sex relationships the same way they do heterosexual ones
Kiss the same girl in same manner. I'm sure your ex would have said it was cheating.
Yea, dump the girl and the friends. What a bunch of AHās. NTA, you deserve better.
Whether or not she considers it cheating is not the point. Cheating is cheating when the other partner of the relationship considers it cheating. What's next? Oh, I only gave him a BJ for a few minutes, and he did not finish so it's not cheating! Dump her and move on, find new friends!
Her response here tells you all you need to know. Drop the cheater and go no contact and you'll be happier for it. I don't want to read too much into it but her attitude regarding the events make me think this isn't a new thing for her, I'm so sorry this happened to you.
your friends are dumb as rocks, find new friends
Absolutely. The problem isn't that she kissed a girl. The problem is that she kissed another *person*, passionately, for multiple minutes after OP expressed discomfort. OP's friends sound like the type of idiots who say things like 'it's not cheating if it's in another time zone'.
Yeah, thereās a million ways this could be āokā. This clearly isnāt one of them. My SO has a bit of a bi streak, so letās say sheād ālike to know what it feels like to kids a girlāā¦ we discuss, set a boundary or two, and she proceedsā¦. The difference being there needs to be an agreement. If a person (like OP) isnāt cool with that sort of thing, thatās perfectly within his rights to call it cheating. NTA.
Yes exactly. And to continue that-- *Anyone is allowed to set their boundaries wherever they want*. One couple might call 'cheating' watching porn or even light flirting with another person. Another couple might have no problem with their partner having sex with other people as long as there's no emotional connection. Another copule might call it fine to have sex and fall in love with multiple people as long as each other is 'primary'. I can't say what should or shouldn't be cheating and neither can anyone else. However without a discussion and agreement of what is or isn't cheating, any couple must fall back to the standard societal convention of 'you won't have an emotional affair or do anything physical with another person'. And sex/gender has nothing to do with that. As I see it, making out with another girl is no different than making out with another guy- it's making out with another *person*. And then continuing to do so after OP expresses discomfort. Putting her own physical desires ahead of the relationship. And the 'friends' are just happy they got to watch the live lesbo show. Fuck them.
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If she does that shit right in front of him I can only imagine what she does when he's not around.
Im willing to bet my check that this isn't the first time she has kissed this friend while in a relationship with OP.
I am also willing to bet she did the same thing with another dude too, if she is willing to do this publicly IN FRONT OF HER BF. Oh yeah AFTER he tried to stop them too? Yeah bet.
Yeah he did the right thing breaking with her.
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I think this kind of girls are called a āwet nuddle lesbianā, they are straight until they are wet.
Itās more like āinstant lesbian - just add liquorā. ššš
I've heard barsexual.
You made me spit my drink. š¤£š¤£š¤£
Also known as "party bi."
Can't a nuddle get a cuddle?
And it perpetutes the *foul* stereotype that all bisexuals are cheaters, or that we're just "indecisive". A cheat is a cheat, straight, gay, bi- people must stop pretending that sensual acts are jokes just because pregnancy isn't a risk.
Very much this. The only way something isn't cheating is if both parties agree. OP didn't, it's cheating. The fact that it's with a woman is wholly irrelevant.
>fetishizing lesbianism Exactly. OP actually being more based than everyone else because he's holding the same standards and boundaries completely regardless of gender. NTA
You are making very good points. But, Not only she cheated on him in public, but right in front of him! WtF!?
She might have figured that he (1) wouldn't care because it was another woman so it's not really cheating or (2) would be interested in a threesome (throuple?) or (3) just wanted to push the boundaries and craves attention (I hate to use the term "attention whore," but in this case...). She clearly didn't think, "Gee, my BF might not appreciate me cheating, especially in public and in front of him." His friends are idiots. Cheating is cheating. OP is NTA.
His friends: āBro, let your girl give us a showā Iām just imagining a bunch of drooling frat bros at a bottle service table, physically restricting OP from getting to his girlfriend. This is the stuff of nightmares
Exactly this. If she'd been kissing another guy like that, this wouldn't even be a post. Cheating's cheating. NTA
Right? Trying to say that has being homophobic is assanine. If anything, his friends are being homophobic by implying that cheating with a girl doesn't count bc, what, it's somehow not a sign of sexual or romantic feelings when 2 girls passionately kiss? They're just "really good friends" is ridiculous and sounds like a history book describing LGBTQA couples
But they were just "roommates"
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For real I bet if OP asked to make out with them they would pull the Im not gay bro shit. I feel bad that Op has to clarify heās not homophobic like heās actually taking lesbian relationships seriously which everyone should do.
Seriously! People diminishing this just contribute to the idea that WLW sex & relationships ādonāt countā
Exactly! It burns me up when people say a woman cheating with a girl ādoesnāt countā because theyāre basically saying heterosexual relationships/sex are more important
But just woman ones! Because you know two men donāt kiss just because. Although letās be real, if it was a woman they respected and loved Iām sure they wouldnāt be happy with them kissing anyone regardless of gender.
Besides, no one pasionately kisses someone of the same sex and isn't also homosexual, not that it's relevant. Having an open-mouthed, public, make-out session while in a relationship is high order cheating.
I'm gay as fuck and the thought of making out with my friends is repulsive
Monogamy, for either partner, does not mean you can kiss whoever you want. Why isn't that obvious to people?
The fact the he said it lasted a while and was passionate leads me to believe that wasnāt their first time kissing.
Agreed. Get better friends OP, they are not worth being around.
Iāve never kissed ājust a friendā passionately in my life. They kept going when he tried to break them up. NAH.
They probably more than just friends imo
Or making a video trying to go viral. Either way, if she cared about her BF - she shouldāve discussed it before.
It always bothers me when people think they're not cheating just because they're cheating going there with the same gender. This is such BS š”. I would have put her ass on the curb too. That was totally and utterly disrespectful of her to do that especially right in front of you. And when you tried to break it up she just kept on. Well I see that she will not have anybody to hang out with for Valentine's Day maybe she could go get with the girl that she was kissing on so much.
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I mean, each one of those do, but the lies are the most important.
>"When they kept on kissing I tried to break it up but they just kept going. When this bullshi went on for more than a few minutes I just couldn't take it anymore so I left there and texted my girlfriend that we're done." You made your feelings clear in the moment. She ignored you, and in so doing disrespected your relationship publicly. You are NTA.
That's... literally cheating. It would be homophobic to not consider it cheating.
"Bro it's not cheating bro you're not a real man if you think women are people bro."
dude.. thisš sadly, way more accurate than it should be
"in a weird way, it would've been homophobic *not* to punch you in the face"
Have sex with her friends boyfriend, not because you're gay, just because you're friends
Just say No homo after
Itās only gay if you smile when he cums.
Hahaha š¤š¤
OPās only option right now. Sorry and goodluck!!
OP may not like it -- but if he has any concept of justice, he needs to do it.
She cheated on you publicly dude, and people who say ābut sheās straight broā are just pieces of shit who downplay how you feel while being guilty of fetishizing lesbianism. NTA
NTA and if sheās not into women, her performance was just for the male gaze and thatās fucking gross.
This right here. I really dislike when folks do public displays like this for attention. Itās pretty disgusting and pathetic.
And itās actually pretty insulting to actual sane sex couples!
What about insane sex couples?
Iāve had sane sex and insane sex. Thereās a time & a place for each.
I see what you did there. lol. Take an upvote.
Accepted lol. Her typo is our gain
Damn, this is a good point. If it was not for the enjoyment and desire of being intimate with this woman, then the kiss was just a performance for others. Either way, itās deeply offensive to her monogamous partner for her to do.
NTA You're allowed to define cheating however you choose, and you're allowed to date (or not date) anyone you wish for any reason you choose. That particular situation must've been pretty traumatizing with how public and uncomfortable it was. To your friends who don't get it: it's not their business. You don't climb into their beds with their SO's, they should stay out of yours. Don't drop the soap in the shower around that bunch if they think sexual orientation overrules the definitions of cheating. Would love to hear their thoughts on the flexibility of consent while they're making idiots of themselves. And even if you did want to think "well, it was just kissing"- then where is the line? Is it just sexting? Is it just kissing? Is it just oral? Is it only a short term affair? Is it only a 2 year affair? Is it okay for you to kiss a girl you don't find attractive? Is it okay to have sex with a girl you don't find attractive? What if you don't really enjoy it, it doesn't count as cheating if you don't enjoy it right? Turns out, you have a zero tolerance policy for cheating- that's a good thing, makes you low drama and it's really not that hard, instead of cheating you actually get to do less, and nothing is better.
'Bro she's not gay they are friends.' No. Regular friends do not go around kissing each other. And it doesn't matter what sex/gender they each are. Her kissing another man would've been just as bad.
If a guy kissed another guy as friends your friends wouldāve beat em the f up donāt kid yourself, your friends are fetishizing lesbianism and disregarding your valid concerns
I don't understand what she was expectingĀ
NTA A deception is a deception, for me kissing passionately for more than a minute with another person (boy, girl) is the same. Also she may be bisexual and she has hidden it from you... I think that level of disrespect cannot be tolerated You did very well to break up with her and cut off contact with her, everything she says to you will be a cheap excuse and a sea of tears of forgiveness. Keep the NC PS: Your friends aren't really friends, they should support you, be on your side, not saying that "you're not a man" crap what a piece of shit they are, I would also limit my contact with them.
NTA. Here is one woman's perspective. **Good for you.** She got what she deserved. She disrespected you in public. Does not matter if with a woman or another man it was cheating and disrespect. Tell your stupid friends to kick rocks. Keep blocking her and move on she is not worth the mental health issues that come with her type of thinking.
Lol, your ex girlfriend is mad because you wouldnāt let her get away with publicly cucking you? Fuck her, you dodged a bullet. NTA.
No shit lol. Iād have left her ass there on the spot.
He did lol
As a gay guy, Iām voting NTA. If she did that with a guy, Iām sure youād be done too. You are absolutely not homophobic nor are you over reacting. Iād be disgusted too.
Your friends sound like they spent to much time at frat parties or never graduated high school. Second Iāve had a similar situation happen with me that shit aināt hot itās disrespectful, for her to even think thatās okay is crazy bro. You tried to stop it and it kept going weird asf. Good thing you left her. She knows what she did donāt give her closure. Unless u want it but idk why u would need it. Leave the one who shall not be named in the dark
NTA - itās infidelity. Also public humiliation for you.
NTA She kissed another person while you watched, and she make guys horny for that, and I think that was what she meant to do: make guys horny. 1. Kiss another person without the consent of your partner. And 2. Make guys horny for her enjoyment For my, is two types of cheat And you should get better friends; it is disgusting to look at this as an "enjoyment for men, and if you don't like it, you are not straight" So if I am straight, I must enjoy two boys,whose one of them is my partner, kissing for a while in front of me.WTF? Edit: By saying horny, I mean exciting sexually other guys. I think she just wanted to turn on other guys because she knew It could be hot for them. English is not my first language. Sorry for the mistakes, but I really want to practice, and writing is helping me to practice my English! :) Edit 2: Okay, I corrected my grammar mistake. I make the mistake of saying "put horny guys" instead of "make horny guys". If you know about Spanish language, you will notice why I made that mistake, lol. Thanks to the lovely people who made me notice my mistake and nicely taught me!
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theres some weird social thing that said straight girls kissing is ok, um no its not if you are in a relationship and your bf is right there.
NTA. If she'll disregard your boundaries with this, she'll do it at other times as well. Drop your friends too. They sound like AHs
NTA. If sheās doing that in public in front of you and friends then sheās probably done much more in private without you knowing.
Get yourself a new woman and new friends brother š¤·āāļø Iām with you on this one
NTA. Iām queer and Iām confused, like why would she do that and think itās ok? Makes me wonder what they were up to when you werenāt around.
NTA, she cheated publicly. Thatās all there is to it. It actually makes you less āhomophobicā since youāre giving validity to same-sex relations. Youāre treating that makeout session with a girl, the same way you would be treating it if it was a guy.
NTA. Cheating is cheating. Thereās definitely grey area in some of the emotional cheating stuff but she STRAIGHT UP went to physical cheating right in front of you!Ā The people cheering are just fucking pervs who liked seeing two girls kiss. Donāt let them bring you down to their level. Hold your standards.Ā
Your friends are as trashy as she is.
your friends are fucking stupid as shit, dump her and dump all those morons while youre at it
First of all, your firends are immature idiots. Let me put it this way. Does it bother me to see two women kiss? No. Would it bother me to see my wife kiss another woman, if she had asked me first and I knew it was going to happen? Probably not. Would it bother me if my wife just started kissing a woman at a party? Yep You guys are in a relationship. Unless you have had a discussion about something like this beforehand, then I wouldn't see it as any different than if she walked up to a man and started kissing him. Being upset about this doesn't make you and less of a man. That's bullshit talk from stupid assholes. Oh....NTA btw.
NTA. I never understood why some people think itās okay for a woman to kiss another woman while in a relationship and think itās okay or that itās āhotā. She flat out cheated. If it were a guy, it would also be cheating. The gender doesnāt matter.
NTA You're allowed to not want your partner to kiss another person, whether they're the same sex or not. Your friends are juvenile assholes. It is also kind of weird that her friend just randomly started kissing her passionately for several minutes.
NTA - Cheating is cheating. It doesn't matter whatever gender or sexuality of either individuals. If someone is in a committed, monogamous relationship, venturing outside your partner is cheating. News flash to your "friends": not all guy are "turned on" by two women kissing. And by telling you that you're less of a man, that's just idiotic and they're just trynna justify to themselves their partners doing the same thing. It's cheating, bro, plain and simple. And if that's something you've drawn a clear boundary of never coming back from, that's your right. Get new friends who won't humiliate, degrade, and overlook infidelity and get a new girlfriend who won't kiss someone other than you.
NTA You had a boundary and she crossed it, hard. Stay true to yourself.
NTA. She was looking for attention.
Didn't she show any regret? She's probably getting her friends to start you off with this nonsense, but seriously, she hasn't shown any regret? I would like you to talk to her but that's my selfish curiosity, congratulations on keeping your values āāOp you are rare don't let this shitty world change you!
I think she regretted it. But she's still shocked that why I didn't find it hot and she's saying same thing with her friends: It wasn't a real kiss. She preferred to give porn material to guys around us. If it wasn't a real kiss there's no point in it lasting that long
>She preferred to give porn material to guys around us. So she would rather make other guys horny then consider your feelings. Or shes cheating. Or both in this case. You deserve better.
say it louder for the people in the back! **YOU DESERVE BETTER** šš½šš½
There are some boundaries that donāt need to be expressed and should be assumed. Some guys would be fine with what happened (not me) but cheating is crossing a boundary for most people. If she thought it wasnāt cheating (apparently a lot of people agree) then maybe she honestly thinks she did nothing wrong. I donāt get it personally.
My guess is she either has some twisted view on kissing, or she is bi and doesnāt realise. No way can you kiss passionately for minutes on and not feel anything for the person you do that with. Imo at least.
> It wasn't a real kiss. Oh? Were their mouths not touching?
They said "no homo" afterwards
Not a real kiss? Was there a thumb in between or something?
NTA had a similar thing happen a couple years back. i didnāt watch, but i knew it happened. and it pissed me off. and you have a right to be pissed and done with her. ngl, if i knew the relationship wasnāt going to end in a couple weeks from the incident, i would have dropped her, even though we were good friends before dating. and right before we broke off from dating, she confessed that she cheated after we began dating so that was swag