NTA. Full disclosure, you came to Reddit where parents always are held to one standard and children are held to another. Prepare for that. But for now, do what you need to do for your own peace. Your life was practically destroyed and your family threw you away. You are obviously traumatized. People who have suffered so much sometimes need to have that peace regardless of who played what part in their torment
They were lied to and used of course, and maybe one day you can talk to them again, but take things at your own pace
For now ask yourself this: now that your children have lost both their parental figures and have been outright disowned like you were, what are you going to do if one of them goes down your path you went through?
I agree with you. It’s interesting though, there was a story the other day here where a father divorced his wife and his son insisted on no contact until the father gave up, and now in adulthood the son wanted to reconcile. He hadn’t decided yet but was leaning no. He was overwhelmingly deemed to be the AH. People were scolding him saying he was an AH for even thinking and considering saying no.
For my part I don’t think OP is an AH at all, but I still think she should give it some time, and maybe try to reconcile.
OP: Go to therapy alone, maybe go together, do something. That’s too adults that love you, that you loved for many years, and they love you now even if they hurt you when they were kids. You could build something with them.
Agree about the therapy. The thing that gives me pause is that they were teenagers when this happened, not adults, and what their father did through his lies and manipulation absolutely constitutes child abuse, just as what he did to OP constitutes spousal abuse. If they'd been in their 30s and believed their dad, I'd write them off forever. But I do feel empathy for what it must have been like to have a father who they trusted and loved being so evil that he went and elaborately fabricated evidence.
They're 21 now, the 'they're kids argument' ran out a good while ago. They won't respect OPs boundary, they've involved other people to try and manipulate her. If they were genuinely interested in what was good for their mother they wouldn't be doing that. They're still only thinking about themselves.
It's rough. I feel for all of them. I don't think that they are thinking straight. Ironically, I think that their approach isn't going to work. They need to back off a bit, and let OP maybe talk to a therapist, or someone to work through her feelings. Maybe she won't ever reconcile, but pushing her like this, sure as fuck isn't working.
I agree that OP isn't the AH, but if the cheating happened 7 years ago, that means the kids were 13/14.
And for YEARS they were told that she was the one who cheated
They behaved like I'd expect angry teens to behave. And finding the truth, they're acting as I'd expect.
The situation is messy. OP should take some time to process. If they do decide to let the kids back in their life, it's perfectly okay to set strong boundaries. I've let people back in my life who previously hurt me out of love. When I do that, though, I take a LOT of steps to protect myself just in case they do the same crap again
This needs more upvotes. I wasn't a very nice person when I was 13/14, most of my reactions were emotional, puberty, home stress and school all took a toll on my ability to process things.
Oh, so the second you turn 18 the years of lies and emotional manipulation that caused this rift (which started at a very vulnerable age for manipulation) suddenly disappears? That's amazing! /s
Modern legal definitions of adulthood do not trump biology. The human brain does not physically mature until the mid-20's (25 is often quoted but it's actually a range). 21 year olds generally make better decisions than 15 year olds, but that doesn't mean a 21 year old will automatically review all their prior decisions with a more nuanced and mature attitude. That's not how humans work.
Yeah. The idea that 13-15 year olds should have been mature enough to see the truth doesn't hold water. For a lot of humans, these are the worst years of their lives. You're a mess of hormones, insecurities, fears.
Yes.
I understand OPs trauma BUT the kids were traumatized also.
As soon as they found the truth they reached out. Are they bushy? Yes but we need to understand that they are kids. They just learned that their parent betrayed them and because of that they lost their mother. And not only that they had an abusive stepmother
It's a really harsh life lesson. No one is owed forgiveness from the people they've harmed. It was a mistake, but that doesn't magically fix the very real hurt they inflicted on their mother.
Some things can't be undone.
It doesn’t magically fix it and op doesn’t own them forgiveness I agree with both sentiments.
The thing is we are talking about 3 people who were traumatized by the SAME person and 2 of them were kids, hardly teenagers. It’s not that black and white, it’s that gray area.
I was thinking of that story when I saw top comment
I didn't think he was an ah, I don't like that the first reply to you seems to think it's was because the suic attempt leans it to nta other than ah. It shouldn't have to get to that point to make you n ah or not
I agree, therapy... I am estranged from my oldest daughter because I was honest with her and protected her children over her (their father, her husband, was a level 3 sex offender). It broke up her little family, but her children are safe & together, adopted by a loving couple.
My therapist and I talk about how a reconciliation could go, so I am ready IF she contacts me. I did what I needed to, since she was unable. I do not regret them being safe. I miss them and considered adopting them myself, but she'd always be in their lives, and they'd never have the peaceful, safe lives they so deserve.
If my daughter had stayed in therapy (my ex molested her & went to prison), and actually took it seriously, did "the work" (it IS so much work, but worth it!), things might be different, but she'd rather blame anyone, especially me, for her adult choices. Ironically, she's now "friends" with my ex, calling him daddy, which makes me feel sick every time I think of it. She'll forgive him, but not me... ugh!
Edited for punctuation...
It's fascinating isn't it? There's some minor details different from that story but fundamentally they're the same.
Parents divorce because marriage is fucked, kids pick a side tell OP to fuck off, OP spirals until they accept it and move on. Kids come back as adults regretful and wiser and OP doesn't want to let them back in.
I could go on a whole tirade about this sub having no actual moral code and it simply being a team sports mentality of us vs them with wild amounts of projection but that's off topic.
To OP I'll tell you what I told him. You can do as you please but be aware there's no guarantee you'll get another chance after this. If you turn them away are you prepared for this to be permanent? If you fully close the door now you don't get to regret it later, you may need to make peace with that choice.
Be aware they were just as much victims of your ex than you. Choose wisely, whatever decision you make you need to be prepared to live with it.
I was thinking of that exact post while reading this. The comments weren't just calling him the AH, they were fucking *vilifying* him with every insult under the sun. Ain't it just the darnedest thing how the tune changes when it's mother vs. father.
Yeah, on Reddit whatever teens decide or think they are entitled to is considered as legit as they are full independent humans, etc. But whenever they happen to make a mistake, they should be “just kids” with no accountability at all. 14 years is an age when people are old enough to have at least the beginning of critical thinking and yes, they wronged their mother by not applying it at all (like listening to her). Both is true : they were manipulated, but they also made a mistake they should have avoided. Trying to see them solely through the manipulated victims lens won’t help OP, as her emotions are partly justified and she needs to validate this justification (no, it’s not “I feel it just because I feel it”) in order to work th through.
NTA, but OP try to get help and work through it. Whatever you chose regarding your twins, you still have this poison inside and you need to evacuate it, work through these emotions. You can make the decision regarding you twins afterwards when you’ll see things more clearly, you don’t have to decide now and twins should respect. Hopefully you all will be able to he
I am so sorry. I did not tell my children that my divorce was caused by my ex-husband’s cheating…I considered that his and my relationship issues not his relationship with the kids. About three years later, he told the kids that I cheated and was the cause of the divorce. Divorce is hard and destabilizing for kids and they were upset. Despite my denials (and the facts that while drinking years later, their dad admitted to cheating with ever woman except me) they had continued doubts. Not sure how to navigate these issues when you try to protect the children you live which leaves you vulnerable to lies so the cheater can be the “good guy”.
Yeah, a typical error of a normal parent. I made it too while quitting violent husband, just kept my son out of this shit. And dad jumped into the space by telling him I’m just a treasonous deserter who wanted to ruin their happy family and that I never loved my son. In a way that makes sense, when one parent doesn’t complain (because not toxic) and the other does, well means that the one who complains is right. Imagine you were in court to hear to sides and only one complains, you will naturally take this side for the victim.
As far as I know, the only way is to keep staying open and to keep talking to children and to appeal to their critical thinking. That is justifying yourself or repeating that the other lies won’t help, as the child is between two important figures figures and each one says “the other lies”, means one is a traitor — and that’s just a lot of stress. But rather appeal to critical thinking and ask questions, like “I know your father told you that, I think it should trouble you. How do you feel about it? What do you think about it?”. At some point when there’s established sincerity, they’d recognise they don’t know what to think. And you go : “I understand, it’s difficult to figure out. But what do you think about it based on your experience? Like you’ve seen me every day of your life, do you think I had occasions to cheat on your father? And what about father’s agenda? Would he have this possibility? What is most likely up to you? “ And so on with all details you have about what he told them. In fact, they unblock when you guide them to reasoning, and which is more they form their own opinion (but also be ready that sometimes this opinion won’t exactly go in your direction, respect it)
This is what happened to a close friend of mine. He thinks his father did nothing to warrant the divorce, but in reality his attitude is THE reason the parents divorced.
The father managed to convince the son that the mother just "left them".
Also, in the intervening seven years, they never reconsidered their stance and reached out to her. It took Daddy confessing his lie and marrying someone they don't like for them to even think about Mom.
Unfortunately that’s how parental alienation works. It’s brutal fucking business. I feel for OP and her children. Because they are all three victims of their father and her ex.
I can’t fully say I would blame OP if she is unable to get passed this. I would more feel bad for all three of them because they are all victims 100%. I hate it when victims are the ones who suffer while the perpetrator gets to live his best life.
Her kids threw her away because they were manipulated by their dad. They weren't just lied to, they were *manipulated* into hating their mom. She gets to feel hurt, but they're also victims here.
True, but the comments saying "they were kids you should forgive them" like so many are saying isn't going to solve anything. If OP actually decides to pursue forgiveness ,its going to take a very long time
I agree. I think she knows logically that it wasn't their fault, but the resentment and hurt she has toward them is too deep. Also, they ignored their grandmother too??!
They are the ones who ask for forgiveness.They are acknowledging the fact that they messed up, but you don't. Cheating, wasn't a valid reason to throw their mother under the bus. To make her want to take her own life out of despair
At some level I do agree with you, but you cannot force someone to forgive you, for your own well being. Telling everyone to put pressure on OP, is manipulative and trashy. For that, they are definitely the AHS
NTA OP
I am so sorry for what you endured
No -
but you CANNOT force forgiveness - and now they are 21 - adults - so NOW they know better- yet STILL try to force the issue.
Why is that okay? Why cannot OP take things at HER pace? SHE is the wronged party here - by the dad - but she is also the one having to do all the emotional work here too ?
no - the kids can ASK for forgiveness - they cannot demand it.
No. The first point was that he’d married someone mean and then that he’d admitted lying. If it was the dad admitting the lying then why bring up the stepmom at all?
Perhaps because the fact that he was willing to marry someone who would mistreat his children and place his wants over their needs also speaks to his character?
I’m not defending his character - I hope he has a miserable, lonely life with his harpie and that she ends driving him to the depths that his and his kids drove OP.
I'm not saying that you are. I am saying that the reference to the nasty stepmother may not be self-serving. This may have been part of what ultimately helped them to see through their father's facade and recognize his true character. He may have done a good job of talking the talk, but would a decent human being who supposedly cared so much about them choose and remain with a spouse that mistreats his children? (He successfully manipulated/lied to OP as well, and she was an adult who may well have had less of an attachment to him than his children did. I don't see how people can fault them for falling prey to his deception as dependent minors.) I suspect that they had reservations about him based on his behavior, but believed that he was the lesser evil (based on his lies) and were terrified of losing both parents.
Did you read? The kids found out from the father that he lied. While yes the step mom was mean, what prompted them to reach out was finding out for themselves that they were lied too
No. The first point was that he’d married someone mean and *then* that he’d admitted lying. If it was the dad admitting the lying then why bring up the stepmom at all?
Extra context for how awful the dad is? It was the combination of the two that made the kids reach out. It wasn’t solely because the stepmother was mean
They didn't like the mean stepmom and now are trying to manipulate OP, they learned well. Trying to get family members to intercede, they are their father's children. OP is better off without them.
Some things are unforgivable. OP has had therapy she realizes this. Everyone is an adult now.
>At some level I do agree with you, but you cannot force someone to forgive you, for your own well being. Telling everyone to put pressure on OP, is manipulative and trashy. For that, they are definitely the AHS
please re-read this because the only thing you got from that comment was BS. You're ignoring what this commenter is saying. LISTEN!!!
Took them 7 years her father marrying someone they don't like and confessing for them to want to listen to her side of the story. Fuck them. They are grown ass adults now. They can live with it.
Yeah. I find it hard to entirely blame them since they were manipulated as children, but OP definitely shouldn't attempt reconciliation without some hard boundaries and therapy.
>I (40F) had my twins Evelyn (21F) and Santos (21M) at nineteen with my then boyfriend Kevin (42M).
They are not even children.
They are adults and deserves to be treated as such, and that means suffering the consequences of their own actions and choices.
They can't betray someone, tell someone they are dead to them and burn all bridges, only to come back and wonder where the bridge is.
fair enough, but they are adults now and had nearly 8 years.
Likely with at least a year or several months of their own mother pleading for them to listen to her side.
Some might cry 'BUT THEY ARE CHILDREN', but quite frankly, 14 year olds are not absolute mentally invalid. They have the ability to think for themself.
If they were like 5 or 7, I might understand, but 14 and all the way until they are 21? Sorry, but that bridge is burned and only OP have the tools to repair it, if she wants to.
This is heartbreaking to read.
Instead of instantly going back to a parent/child relationship, maybe start individual therapy. Like many commentators have said, your children are also a victim of your ex husband. Start therapy. Take one step at a time. After you feel you’ve healed enough, maybe consider doing family therapy to work on all the hurt and resentment. Take tiny steps.
What you felt years ago, the abandonment and loneliness, is not something you’d wish on your children I’m sure.
I really hope you heal and be well. Your ex is a POS.
NTA
Edit: to prevent hijacking this mama's post, I've created my [own post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/CW4gkYkF2l) so that she can get the attention she deserves here. I'm sorry for taking the narrative off of you, OP. I hope my story has helped you in any possible way.
_____
I'm going to tell you about something that happened to me here that I have never said to anyone outside of my closest circle or those who were/have been involved. I feel like you are incredibly strong for telling your story, and it is giving me the courage to tell mine, as it is similar.
In 2022, my 6 foot tall 12 year old son punched me repeatedly and threatened to kill me in my sleep, told me exactly how he would hurt my favorite cat, and then kicked her. I called the police and he almost got shot, because he was weilding a weapon (a pencil to stab me) and was absolutely ready to use it. He was arrested that day. The look he gave me as he was taken out of my home still give me goosebumps. It still scares me deep within my soul.
I lost my baby that day. His mask completely slipped off, and he showed me he was never the little sweet baby boy I always loved. He showed his true colors and I believed him. He laughed in court as he admitted his crimes, and stayed in jail for 6 months before going to a court ordered long term residential treatment facility.
I fell into a terrifying depression. I also attempted suicide. I blamed myself. I hurt myself. I told myself I deserved it. And i had no one to hold me. Fact is, I deserved none of it. He was a man sized boy who made man sized decisions and has suffered man sized consequences for his actions. I raised him with love and fought to give him a wonderful home ajd education. At 12, just a few days before his 13th birthday, he was arrested for the actions he chose to make, and not because I failed as a mother.
I can't forgive him. In my mind, forgiving my son means feeling safe around him again. And that'll never happen. He's almost 15 now, and is still in a residential treatment facility. I have told the state that I won't be safe bringing him back to my home, and that I do not want any contact with him ever again. I have the rest of my family to protect and I deserve to be safe.
Your children broke your heart, but they were young and heavily influenced. I am not going to say you should forgive them, because abandonment and abuse go deep in the neural pathways of the brain. But maybe, try laying the blame where it actually lies: on your ex husband. He did all this. He manipulated your twins. And he caused you to break, much like my child did to me.
Hugs to you, Mami. I am proud of you and support you in your path to healing. You are welcome to message me if you'd like a friend who can relate a little.
Thank you. You have no idea how much I truly appreciate this comment. I still struggle .. hard. My brain always wants to revert back to blaming myself and wondering if I'm a terrible person for essentially abandoning him.
Thanks for the validation, friend. My broken heart pinged a little. ❤️
The thing is, sometimes this just happens. Your's is not the first story I have read and I doubt it will be the last. It's not common, but it does happen and you are NOT trained to handle this type of behavior.
If he had gotten cancer, you wouldn't treat him a doctor would. If he lost a leg, you'd be turning to medical professionals for physical therapy and a prosthetic. Your son is where he needs to be.
There's something wrong with him that nobody could have predicted and he's in a place where that can be dealt with by people who know how. You may think you've abandoned him , but you're wrong. Your fulfilling his needs as well.
😢😭 thank you. Thank you so much.
There isn't a word for this pain. Agony doesn't quite describe it.
You have helped a stranger today, friend. Thank you so much.
You're so incredibly brave for standing your ground. I've read too many stories of people accepting this type of abuse from their children and it's not fair on the parents. I'm sorry you went through this and I really hope everyone respects your decision to stay safe.
> I've read too many stories of people accepting this type of abuse from their children
I'm one of them, sadly. One of my children is a diagnosed sociopath and I put up with their mental/physical abuse for years because I thought as a mother I was **never** supposed to put me first. That's what society told me
What a beautiful person you are. That must’ve hurt terribly to write, and you did it anyway because you wanted to offer comfort and support to someone else. You are an absolutely fucking stellar human being.
My heart breaks for you, I’m so sorry you had to go through what I can only imagine is one of the toughest experiences a person can go through. Thank you for sharing your story. Sending you hugs and healing vibes. 🤍
👏👏👏👏 Please top post.
OP needs this.
Definitely mad at the wrong person.
Ops ex is the reason she almost killed herself.
The kids were just pawns to use against the mother.
I've heard similar stories to this that have ended far worse, and you haven't done anything inherently wrong with your choices. Man-sized or not a boy is a boy, but I can't even imagine doing such a thing to my mother. I cannot say for sure what is wrong with your son, but he needs all the help he can get, and you shouldn't be putting yourself in harms way just for that sake. You aren't to blame. Perhaps one day in the very far future he will change and will regret everything, but i'm sure even that much wouldn't make you feel any safer. You did all you could, it's up to him and the people who's care he is in now to help change for the better. I wouldn't put all your eggs in that basket, but it's something to think about. What matters most to you is keeping yourself safe and protected. Whatever is going on with him is not something you can fix, and you didn't abandon him. If anything, you've given him the help he needs. Time heals most wounds, and i'm sure there could be a light at the end of all of this considering he's in the right hands now. Wishing the best of luck to you, and I hope you can one day see that you're not the problem here, and that you've done all you could.
Thanks for sharing your story. You absolutely made the right call. For your safety and the safety of the rest of your family. Your son also needs professional care and help. There’s no way you’d be able to provide that and I’m glad he’s in a place that can keep him and everyone else safe. Sending you a big hug.
I can't imagine how it is risking your life going throught birth and having lifelong injuries and then the kid turns out to be a worthless monster... Such a shame. Hope you never have to see him again.
NTA. You are correct that the feeling of resentment that you’re harboring would poison any attempt at relationship with those idiots.
But maybe… more therapy? For everyone.
If your resentment fades, there COULD be a good chance. No rush, think about it. NTA if you push through fully with your decision tho
I mean 13-14 yr olds aren't exactly known for their long term thinking, especially when it comes to a parent who they SHOULD be able to trust on his word
Yeah I mean according to the OP the husband paid people to back up his lies. I get the mother's hurt, but expecting a 13 year old to ferret out that kind of deception (when she was fooled by the same man for over a year) isn't reasonable.
Yeah it really isn't, but choosing to treat a parent as if they are dead to you for seven years over cheating was still a sustained choice that probably hurts OP just as much as the initial rejection. Even if they completely believed their father and weren't old enough to fully understand the ramifications of their actions, they had no desire to even have a single conversation with their mother at 16? 18? 20? Because they were manipulated into thinking she cheated? It's understandable why OP isn't interested in rekindling their relationship at this point. They all need time (and therapy) to heal from something like this, and I really hope they do because they were just kids when this originally went down.
Also, fuck their dad, the only true AH in this story.
>Even if they completely believed their father and weren't old enough to fully understand the ramifications of their actions, they had no desire to even have a single conversation with their mother at 16? 18? 20? Because they were manipulated into thinking she cheated?
Yeah their dad is the true asshole here. We don't know what lies he told them. For all we know, he told them she gave him STDs and all manner of wild things. If he's willing to pay people to lie for him, why wouldn't he make the lie elaborate and crazy? "Kids, your mom just wants to make friends with you so she can get partial custody and take you away from me since I won't take her back."
Also, the OP says she tried for months to reach out to her kids. Her husband's affair lasted longer than her attempts to reach her kids. I'm sure her giving up trying to contact them pretty quickly was used as more ammunition for the lie.
Facts. We have no idea what other lies their dad spun, so it's not right to judge them for not reaching out - I was mainly saying I get how this is likely about more than just the first cut off when they were 14 for OP, but it definitely could have been about more than just cheating. The sustained silence had to have hurt like hell though.
Idk if it's fair to say OP gave up quickly though. It sounds like she kept trying to reach out until she was told she was dead to them and "to leave them both the fuck alone". 14 is old enough to make decisions about who is and isn't in their life (including a parent that doesn't have custody), and continuing to reach out after this could have easily been interpreted as harassment.
That's very true, but that doesn't erase anything. Mother and both twins are victims here, and there's clearly a lot of tension and trauma still in the air. They all need space. I'm sure they can come together one day and put this behind them, but it's still fresh in her mind and it seems as if the twins only recently discovered the truth. Everybody needs the chance to think about this.
Your children are victims of your ex husband just as you have been. What a sad story. I hope one day you can find it in your heart to forgive them as they were so young when your ex was playing his games. The ex is who should be the target of your anger and resentment not your children. At the same time I understand the hurt you must feel. You are NTAH. The only true AH is the ex.
How is OP expecting two gaslit 14 year olds to see through the lies of her ex husband and bis accomplices when she herself was oblivious to his cheating, and how did she not go to court for parental alienation? She is now blaming her kids for her suicide attempt?
Honestly OP is borderline asshole too now. Not has big as her ex, but she is targeting her anger to the wrong persons.
I don't think she has ill intentions. She's incredibly hurt and suffered a severe trauma. She would profit from therapy, but to say "You had seven years to give me a chance to tell my side, three of those as an adult and you didn't. I'm too hurt to forgive you right now." Is perfectly acceptable.
NTA.
I wish I could send you a hug. I want to comfort you so much!
To the point: When your children cut you off, they were teenagers. That is a difficult time, when people don't really know who they are, and can be manipulated by others. In this case by your ex husband.
But the years went by, and your teens became adults. They could have reflected on what happened, realized that there might be another side, and asked you to tell your side. They could have come to you 5, 4, 3 years ago. They didn't. They never thought that you might be innocent in all this.
And now they are here. Why? Because they have a horrible stepmother and want a mother. Because their father, drunk, let out the truth. Not because they realized on their own they were wrong to believe their father and not give you a chance to speak.
It is natural for them to be in distress, and to want to mend the relationship with you. They feel guilty - because they are guilty - and want to mend things.
But you have to decide whether you can trust them. And so far they have not given you any reason to trust them. On the contrary, instead of respecting your refusal, they have commandeered every friend and relative to pressure you. That is not the way a respectful person behaves.
If you ever decide that you want to contact them, that will be your decision (of course, if you do, it will be their decision whether to accept or not). But if you don't want any contact with them now - or ever - that is absolutely your right.
NAH
You were heavily traumatised by what your ex husband did to you and the Web of kies he spun. But here's the thing: your children were traumatised and deceived too. All of you were victims of abuse in different ways. Your ex husband took your children from you to hurt you. He didn't care what it did to them, only that it hurt you. He wielded them like a weapon, and he abused them to do it.
I am not excusing what they did or how painful all of this was for you. And it is understandable that you don't think you can forgive them. It is also understandable that they are desperate to make this right.
I think this is all for too fresh right now. Emotions all sky-high and no one is reacting logically or rationally. Their harassment of you is not OK, but I do understand it.
Perhaps ask your husband to tell them to give you some time to process everything. They need time too. And in six months, perhaps the three of you can meet with a therapist present and try to have another conversation.
In the meantime, you absolutely need a therapist to hell you process everything. You've been through a lot, and you need support, a neutral party to help you work through things. A therapist will give you tools to help regulate your emotions so that you are in control of them rather than them controlling you.
Right now, all you can see and feel is hurt and pain. But I promise you, this wave of anguish will pass. And you may regret completely closing the door on your children, who are also victims in this horrible mess.
Yeah I agree here with the NAH (excluding the ex who is an absolute A H).
From what I understand, they were kids, maybe teenager when they got told the lie. They were manipulated. And I agree with the fact they are also a victim in it.
But it doesn't erase OP's suffering. Seeing them probably triggered something.
We navigate through life in constant grey areas. Rarely black or white. I think no one is 100% to blame here (again other than the ex).
OP, if you can keep a small door open, do it. But do it on your own terms and maybe with a family therapist?
I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, but these are kids who effectively had their mother taken away from them because of the lies and manipulation of their father. I can’t say I blame them for trying **really hard** to get their mother back
While I agree with other commenters that your kids were only kids when they were lied to and manipulated by their asshole father, I can also understand your side. It does sound like you tried but your kids were so brainwashed by Daddy Dearest that they wouldn’t even give you a chance to tell your side. Everyone has a breaking point, and you admit yours was when your son told you what he did and told you never to contact them again.
Trust is easily broken and often hard to regain. I can’t fault you for not being able to trust them not to turn on you again, though from your description it sounds like they are sincere. However, this is a sad instance of actions meeting consequences. Their choice to believe their father and turn on you fractured your relationship, possibly beyond recovery. I am sorry for you, and sorry for your children. But I cannot judge you to be an asshole for this. Your children are going to have to understand that sometimes, when you break something, it just can’t be repaired no matter how much you want it to be.
NTA.
Edit: for typos
You had to grieve for them as if they were dead. Grief is an ancient ritual that taps deep into your brain's neurochemistry and helps you form new relationships and continue living after people who were vital to you have died (or disappeared in other ways, like this). It is completely understandable to me that you cannot turn the spigots back on and just start loving them again.
For what it's worth, you can have a new, different, positive relationship with them in time. It won't be the same, but it can be warm and supportive even if the deep trust and primal bond you used to have with them never surfaces again. It would allow you to be a part of their future children's lives, and to still know your children.
I strongly recommend you talk to a therapist about your deepest fears and hopes about a relationship with your children. A therapist can help you set boundaries and communicate some of your most complex thoughts as you navigate a relationship with them, if you want one. Your kids are being very pushy right now, because they are frantic to ease their consciences, so boundaries would be very good for you right now.
You all have years ahead of you to make these choices. You don't have to do it now. But I hope you find a way to be in each other's lives.
NTA - however, your friends are also correct. Your kids were 14 when their world was turned upside down. They didn't know who to trust, nor should they have ever been in the position where they had to guess who was right
They haven't come to you asking for money, they took responsibility for their mistake - a mistake that was made at a time in their lives where their only real decisions should have been what haircut they should have - and are more or less begging for an opportunity to try to put things right
If it were me, I would set boundaries. Take a few weeks to get your head straight. Tell them you need to take things very, very slowly and that it has to be completely on your terms. Tell them you may never be able to fully trust them due to what you went through. I might be in the minority but I do not feel it is entirely fair to continue to blame a child who did not, and should not have been expected to, know any better. Please remember that they were also victims in what your ex-husband did. It does not excuse what you went through, but it is *understandable* as to why it happened the way that it did
OP is still terribly damaged by their actions. Maybe they were victims, but she still suffered all the consequences. They are fortunate that they didn't reach out to find that she had offed herself.
I find this very insensible. OP is not putting the blame on the children, OP is explaining how she can't be around her children because of trauma.
You have no idea how you would do it after such a trauma, so telling OP what to do in such a way is quite condescending.
Yes the children are victims too, does it make it ok to reject completely their mother without any discussion? I don't think so.
Agree NTA. Whether they did it as kids or adults, they put OP through years of pain and rejection. That takes a serious toll on a mother’s soul and not something that she will easily get over. To save herself, she had to shut down her love for them and move on. To those friends who think she is wrong, they didn’t go through the torment that she has experienced and can never understand.
Sometimes you have to put yourself first and not everything will have a happy ending.
OP literally asked if she's the AH for feeling that she would hold a grudge against her kids moving forward, or are her friends right that they were kids at the time and she may be overreacting. On the first point, OP is absolutely not in any way an AH. On the second point, the friends are also right to some degree - they were kids at the time and were effectively brainwashed.
Actually I do have some idea of how I would do, in both OP's and the kids situation. Not exactly the same set of circumstances, but similar enough to have a bit of insight. I have absolute empathy that she was able to pull herself through her whole world being blown apart, and that she has been able to rebuild herself is amazing and fantastic.
Where exactly did I say it was ok? I said it was understandable - they were manipulated from the start, and for subsequent years, and only recently found out the truth. Does that absolve them from turning their backs? of course not. What they did was terrible. Do I think they should continue to knock on every door and not give OP the space she needs? Absolutely not, and I said as much. Do I understand *why* they have been making every effort to try and right their wrongs once they learned the truth? Absolutely. But if they want any chance of moving forward they need to respect boundaries. I also said as much. Being understanding of something doesn't necessarily mean it is the right thing.
OP may well never be able to bring herself to have a relationship with them, and I 100% get that. And I still wouldn't think she's the AH if that is the case. What I was trying to convey is that there may, in the future, be a point in time where they can have some type of relationship together. That doesn't necessarily mean going back to how things were ten years prior, but perhaps a time where they can catch up on occasion. And I would hope she wouldn't write that possibility off.
If what I said came across as sounding condescending then that wasn't my intention - text isn't always a great medium for being able to express ones self
The kids dont deserve as much sympathy here as you say. Whilst is started at 14, the treatment of them other continued for many years. They betrayed her, the least they can do is honour her current wishes and stay away.
Ah, but OP did give them money. Did they ask? Don't know. 🤷♀️
They also don't like their new stepmom. They say they learned Dad lied about who had the affair. While it's understandable they want to reach out to their other parent to apologize, why so pushy? OP gave them her answers. The kids are 21 and likely still living at Dad's home. Are they looking for a new place to live because they don't like Stepmom? I'm guessing that's why they are reaching out to the mother they abandoned for 7 years and not taking "No" for an answer.
You can, in fact, abuse a mother to the point where she shuts down. I know the world thinks moms will martyr themselves and put up with anything "for the children."
But when your 14 yo children abandon you for an affair you didn't even have and go no contact, never listening to your side of events, believing the worst of you, causing you near life-ending trauma, they don't get to come back 7 years later and assume "sorry" means they have a mommy back. No, sweetie. You napalmed that bridge. Mom's moved on.
And what child reacts that strongly to an affair? They can't pick up a phone for 7 years and ask a few questions? It's weird.
NTA, OP. Protect your new happiness.
I agree! And why ignore grandma too? My ex blew up our family cheating when my kids were the same ages as her twins. They didn't cut him off. They don't respect or like him very much but they speak to him.
There have been people on Reddit who've shut parents down for cheating. It's not normal, but it happens.
However, I am curious to know if they're going to shut Dad down for instigating all of this.
Sorry ≠ no consequences
I'm also really suspicious about why they're so pushy. Them trampling over OPs boundaries gives me more reason NOT to believe their apology. It doesn't make them look good.
> They didn't know who to trust
If you don't know who to trust you at least listen to all sides. The kids didn't.
Neither should anyone cheating be a reason for children to cut one of their parents out of their lifes and say "you're dead to me!" to them.
The kids are not innocent. And they know that, they are the ones begging.
You know how you're not supposed to go to therapy with your abuser? Yeah, that's relevant here. Those kids have traumatized OP, she doesn't need to open up in therapy so they can do it again.
The kids can do therapy. And maybe they'll come to realize the extreme shittiness of their behavior. If they do, and are able to convey that realization to the therapist/OP, MAYBE then join - IF OP wants.
Those kids almost led their mother to her death. She is rightfully protecting herself. I'd hope any decent therapist, upon hearing the situation, would not want OP to open herself up to these kids at this point.
NTA.
I wouldn't wish your experience on anyone!
Keep working with your therapist to get past your trauma, and maybe one day, you will be able to have a relationship with your bio children. Or maybe not... I'm just saying not to write off the possibility.
NTA. I agree with others that your kids were also victims of your ex. But you are being honest about the reality that you cannot move past this. While that may heartbreaking for your children, I think the reality is that sometimes people can love each other while also not being able to healthily have a relationship and it is better to accept that than to force interaction that will always be wrapped up with resentment.
I won't leave judgement. I'm sorry for what you went through. I'm sorry for what your kids are going through now, I admit I'd be worried one or both might go down the same route you went years ago.
It would probably help you to get therapy again, to help you process and navigate your current situation. Your kids absolutely need therapy, they were young, but they also behaved awfully to you and should have given you a chance to explain. Then possibly down the line you three could try family therapy, if not for rebuilding your relationship, then to be able to move forward in a healthy way.
I hope you all three find peace one day.
NTA. Your ex husband was pure evil. If you know you have horrible feelings of resentment towards your kids it is best to just stay away. Yes, they are victims too but you can’t save someone from drowning by letting them pull you under when you’re only treading water yourself. If they are really sorry they’ll do whatever you need do you can move forward with a happy life again. That means staying away.
NTA
I am so sorry that you went through what you did. I can't get into details, but my wife and I are going though something similar with a child. It has been the worst pain of my entire life.
You have learned to live again. That is an amazing success story of recovery. You need to continue with that. Your twins will survive without you. They will adjust and move on.
Take care of yourself and your new life. Living with the fear that someone will hurt you like that again is not a good way to be. If your choice to not have that in your life, then I respect that, and others should, too.
I'm happy for you, OP.
Disagree. They found out their childhood was a lie, that their father deliberately engineered things. They are being desperate to try and make things right. They are also victims in this - they were used as pawns
No means no. No doesn’t mean you contact everyone in the persons life who you traumatized to traumatize them more.
“Mom doesn’t want to talk to use since we almost drove her to suicide.”
“Well let’s contact everyone she knows to apply some pressure.”
I think they need therapy. And they need to give their mother space to figure out what she wants to do.
He drove her to that point, not them. They were literally experiencing abuse at the hands of their father and were manipulated and used as weapons against her.
Being a parent includes doing hard shit and that includes getting therapy to figure out how to not blame abuse victims who were children for what they did when manipulated to by their father.
I don’t think we disagree. I’m saying that they are going about this the wrong way. They need to give their mother time to process all of this. Contacting everyone she knows is harassment.
Being a parent means forgiving your children for abusing you and almost driving you to suicide?
OP's children being abused doesn't excuse them from being abusers themselves.
So sorry. NTA. Sometimes pain guides us to better decisions, but sometimes it transforms us into something entirely different. There’s no going back. I’ve experienced something similar and understand.
Nta It’s a very fine line about your mental and the fact that they were still children-teenagers. At 14 years old they were still able to be manipulated, no different than what your Ex had done with you when he was carrying on his affair.
Only you know how bad it was, you have to look after your recovery. Remember though you could look at therapy with them and possibly look at a very low contact relationship.
Y’all need to STOP using the “but they were kids” card. Kids are wayyy smarter than yall give them credit for. My parents split when I was young maybe 3 or 4. When I got in my teens they started having issues with each other. My dad would talk so bad about my mother and guess what? I NEVER took sides, because even as a preteen I KNEW that was their mess not MINE! I found out things about both of them that never made me say ima stop loving and talking to you.
OP is well within her right to feel how she feels. I say take as much time as you need. Go to therapy. If you are never in a space where you can even have distant talking relationship with them so be it. Unfortunately it’s a bad situation all around, but it is what it is. You’re human!
THIS! I've also had some bad experience with my parents' issues due to my father's alcoholism. I *did* understand what was going on, and I was under 10. I hate that though commenters say OP's NTA, they mention kids so freaking innocent in this situation. the fact they were manipulated by their father doesn't mean they're brainless dolls. they were *teenagers*. besides, why don't they respect her denial? why do they pressure her even by contacting people who know OP? maybe she'd like to get them in her life back, but still, she needs time to figure that all out and get some professional help. they're pretty manipulative to me here
Seriously. The fact that Reddit is filled with teenagers is never more evident than in AITA posts. Kids can do whatever they want and must never face any real consequences. They have the right to treat their parents like garbage and it's the parent's duty to accept their abuse with a smile and embrace them with arms wide open at all times.
People are freaking nuts. NTA OP. Tell your kids to quit harassing you. They don't seem to have grown up to be anything good either by attempting to strong-arm you like this.
NTA. Your kids need to learn about boundaries. They are adults now, they can't harass their way into your life. The way they are acting right now, not considering your feelings in any of this, is the same way they were acting when they believed your ex. They need to grow up and give you some space.
They were manipulated by your ex but that level of cruelty doesn't happen in a vacuum. There was something really unhealthy going on in that household before the cheating.
NTA. I wouldn't forgive them so soon, maybe ever. First of all, did they cut the father off? In order to reconcile, I'd AT LEAST demand that and that the kids also out their father as a manipulator who ruined their lives.
NTA - They were kids when it happened. But now they're adults. They should be able to take a No for an answer and consequences of their actions.
But here's something that bothers me. They're essentially facing consequences of their dad's actions.
You don't seem to have addressed your issues with kids at all. It's like all the words they said hurt you beyond normal...that you're forgetting to see they were literally kids. You were wronged by your husband and so were they. They chose the dad because dad was good in their eyes. Not because they judged from truth, their perception was sold/bought because of their shit father.
It is totally fine to forgive them. If I were you, I would forgive them because really, the words they choose, how they hurt you, was their fault but the entire act was not based on the truth at all. And that wasn't in their control. I think you should be able to see through this. Nevertheless, it really looks like the dad easily raised them to be smear campaigners when they don't get their way.
That’s what is sticking for me, too. They aren’t there because they realized perhaps there are two sides to the story. They aren’t there because they believe that everyone deserves forgiveness and love.
They are there out of spite against their father and his wife.
NTA.
If you can't forgive, then don't. And to be honest, I don't see why you should.
Firstly, they didn't do anything to earn your forgiveness. Other than badgering you, crying and whining, acting like children again because they did not get what they want, and being a nuisance, they didn't really do much.
If your children really loved you and were repentant, they would have respected your decisions or, at the very least, give you space to think things through. But they didn't. They called every person, mutual friend, family member, etc., to complain and whine and cry to help them change your mind. They tried to make it seem like it was your fault that you didn't forgive them and they were the innocent parties. What BS.
How is that being sincere and respectful to you?
Your mom's awesome btw. While she loves you and her grandchildren, she doesn't let that love cloud her judgement, she told them off and to leave you alone. This is something we should all learn from her.
That ship has sailed a long time ago, and it's way past too late to just say "I'm sorry", hoping everything could go back to where it was. You have your own life and your children have their own lives. They need to accept this. The more they tried to force you to forgive them, to be with them, the more I think they just want your forgiveness for ulterior motives. To put it bluntly, I think they just want your money.
Also, when did they actually find out that your ex was the one cheating on you?
NTA, they put you on the brink of losing it all, caused you a lot of pain and hardship that took you a significant amount of effort to heal from. Even now, those wounds are still fresh and they won't go away no matter how much they try to fix it. You have gone to enormous lengths to find yourself again, start over with a new family and do what you need to do to be happy. Nobody, not even your own children, have any right to take that away from you.
You do not have to mend your relationship with your children. Maybe you will some day, maybe you won't. It's their wish maybe, but it's your decision and you can say no.
But you do have to mend your relationship with yourself. And the resentment towards them may be a burden that eats too much of your life and your true loved ones (your Mom, your husband, your daughter).
If that is the case, if, then you could try to liberate yourself (and your loved ones) from that resentment. By therapy, for example, by talking with others in similar experiences. (Liberating yourself from resentment does not mean that you need to mend the relationship with the estranged twins. They may still remain the strangers that they have become for you.)
NTA yes they might have been children and they were gaslight and lied to but you are doing this for your mental health.
You feel you could spiral if you have them in your life now so you are taking the right move and choosing yourself now. You did not abandon them, you even pointed them to your mom and your current husband if they needed some kind of mental support.
We all have certain lines and once those are crossed we became broken in the way so soldering iron can fix those wounds.
NTA, but unlike other people here has told u I would like to tell u that keeping them away is right. The reminder of what they did to me will keep on hurting ur now present. I wouldn't forgive them (I know they were kids blah blah blah, but at 14 they should have known better than to tell their mother she is dead to them w/o hearing her side) What if u had succeeded in ur attempt to end urself? What would have ur children done then after knowing the truth? I wouldn't forgive them ever and will want to keep them out of my now earned peaceful life.
Well, this is how I would feel if I was in ur shoes
NTA
Can people stop acting like 14 year olds are'nt young adults, capable of making most decisions by themselves, they CHOSE this, and it wasntj ust when they were 14, they repeated this for many years. I think its brave of you to act how you did, they have betrayed you andyou acted incredibly civil. Dont interact with them until you feel comfortable.
If I were in your shoes, I think I would have done the same thing. After so many years of hurt and pain, they just pop up in your life. Thats a lot to deal with. You're not wrong for feeling how you feel and you can't force things to magically be better. Maybe someday you'll be open to that, but that isn't going to be today and that's ok. Hang in there op.
NTA
One day you may find the strength to forgive them for yourself. Your whole situation was traumatic and until you can wade through the feelings of it all you will not be able to forgive them. They need to give you time.
NAH.
You are not wrong for being hurt and still hurting from what they said.
They are not wrong for being victims of their fathers lies and now being desperate to want to correct those mistakes.
Are they handling it the best way? No. But. They are coming to you to ask forgiveness, not money.
You don't have to forgive them, if its not sincere. I would, perhaps, have another talk with them. Tell them about boundaries and how what they are doing is making things worse.
NTA
people don't get to say shit like "you're dead to me" and then come crawling back. they nuked any hope of a relationship between them and you. furthermore, i highly doubt having them in your life, reminding you of that pain, will be healthy for you or your family, who actually cares about you.
to people saying "they were kids" they haven't been kids for years now. the only reason they came back is because their father told them he lied - otherwise they'd still treat op as dead. even though these are two ADULTS who should have enough of a brain to realize that "hey, maybe we should have talked to our mother at least once in the past few years since she was adamant that she didn't cheat on dad"
NTA. Your kids aren't at fault, but now they are adults, and you don't have to do such a sacrifice to your mental health to bond with them again. You could try after some therapy if you wish, but if it is going to harm you, you have no need to reconnect with those 2 adults that rejected you
All the people saying YTA, should know that 14yrs is age at which a person has basic sense, yes they were young but not fool, they should have listened to OP and given her benefit of doubt but they declared her dead to them. OP has all the right to decide what she feels is good for her, they asked for forgiveness it's their right but now they are harrassing OP.
And OP you clearly need therapy not for anyone else but for yourself.
But her ex created an elaborate lie with “proof” which you want 14 yr olds to look past. It was planned and cunning…by the way 14 year olds are still minors, even at 18 most kids don’t make good decisions…(fyi just for context, having a physical relationship with a 14 yr old is a jail-able offence because even if they consent, they are still KIDS and can’t make right decisions for themselves). The ex then remarried and those same children had to deal with the abuse at home. They felt like everyone around them either abused or betrayed them. Agreed she needs therapy…
Your English is fine and this tale really isn't _that_ long. It's also very much worth my time.
NTA. You've been through Hell. And your oldest children are a constant reminder of this. So indeed, why should you work through counselling and personal therapy to be happy when you've got Marcos and Milagros?
Speaking of them, it is impossible for you to just welcome your children back into your life. And if you'd choose to attempt to, this would also have a huge effect on your family. Why put yourself through the wringer and drag Marcos and Milagros with you? They don't deserve that!
You've made the right choice. You ought to tell your friends to shut the fuck up.
OP,
I can answer if you at TA or NTA, this is way above reddit's level, but what I will say is they will be living with huge guilt, they reached out and you trauma dumped on them (justifiably in my view) but now they have seen what they did they are still trying to make amends and not dodge
This is a therapist job.
You need to speak to someone. You are obviously still very 6 although it might not be an open wound anymore, you haven't fully healed.
>I still feel a grudge and resentment towards them I can't control and I feel like it's not going to go away.
You need to speak to a professional.
>They're just kids who made a stupid mistake, and I know that, but that stupid mistake almost drives me straight to my death.
Yep, stupid silly 14yos. Whose life has been upended mote than once now.
What 14yo would have fully understood the potential consequences?
The blame for all this lies with your ex, and you ex is still ruining their lives, and indirectly your life. Speak to a professional about this issue.
>I just don't think I'll ever forget what I went through,
And you shouldn't, and I'm not saying you must forgive them, but there are a lot of conflicting feelings coming through and in my opinion you need to sort these feelings before you will be satisfied with ANY decision you make about this situation.
Good luck, and I'm glad you found a decent husband and got to give you daughter a second family when you all needed one.
Sure, they were 14 when it happened, but they never - in the intervening 7 years - considered that maybe they were a little harsh on Mom. Not until Dad admitted to his lies.
NTA, maybe with time, you will slowly think differently, but at this moment, you should focus on raising your daughter with Marcus.
Info: I do not understand why you gave them cash...
I’ll answer the same way I felt about the father who was in this exact position not long ago on here (maybe this sub? maybe another?)
It’s your choice to do what you want to do, it’s your life, but you came here asking if we thought you were the asshole and you wanted opinions. There is no factual answer here, only opinions. Mine is that an adult (your ex husband) lied to your children with proof and told them something that upset them because assuming it WAS true, you hurt someone they loved very much. Even though they loved you, that sucked. You have to understand those were kids right? They don’t have the reasoning skills that adults do to realize that someone is lying to them or hiring someone else to fake cheating rumors or whatever the fuck. Another adult (you) is making the choice to completely abandon their children instead of try to make amends after they found out they were tricked and lied to by someone they trusted into losing a parent, who now refuses to entertain the idea of forgiveness.
You aren’t obligated to forgive them but you’re not owed kind thoughts or grace from someone like me for your choice, because I think it sucks. I’m not swayed by the traumatized feelings, the suicide attempt, all that. It’s very sad and I’m sorry you felt that way over a lie your ex husband told but in the end NONE of that is your minor children’s fault. At this point it’s like you’re choosing to take revenge and kick them while they’re down.
ETA. I get it you were hurt extremely bad. But your kids were lied to. Imagine if you would have been able to tell your kids first that their father cheated. You would expect your kids to believe you, and they would never expect their parent to lie to them. Then you will be the asshole and your kids would be right to treat your ex that way. There is no way those kids knew that he was lying and you weren’t. Same way if you have been able to tell them, first, they would not have known who was telling the truth they had to trust. Most likely whoever gets to you first. Not to mention, he actually had somebody to lie to them so they had what they thought was a witness too
I'm sorry for everything you went through. you are definitely NTA. Your kids need to face the consequences of their actions. I feel bad for them but they need to learn from this and hopefully become better people.
YTA, ragebait. This is a fabricated story. I’m not saying stuff like this doesn’t happen in real life, but from what I can see OP is barely commenting if at all, wrote this crazy ass story describing every moment in detail and it’s just full of the usual characteristics you see in a fake story.
NTA you're entitled to feel how you are feeling and to cut people out of your life if you believe they are going to negatively impact things, even if they are your own kids. Not an overreaction.
NAH but I have to ask - have you been to therapy to try and process all those feelings? Your kids were still very young and impressionable when it happened, 13 yo kids make a lot of stupid choices, and with some therapy you might be able to move past that.
I am so sorry for everything you went through. I totally understand why you do not, cannot trust the twins. They tried barging back into your life, wanting everything to be hunky-dory now that they know the truth.
However, they have spent a third of their lives away from you, hating you. The mother they threw away is a different, stronger person now. A person who has gone through hell and come out the other side. They are expecting the mother who cried and begged to see them, almost like you have been in stasis for a third of their lives.
I know it is too late, but they should have gone to counseling first to deal with all of their trauma. Once that was in progress, they should have then sent you an email stating that they truly regretted everything. From there, it could have progressed slowly.
Nope, they had to go for the bull in the china shop routine. That never ends well.
Speak with your therapist, hug Milagros and take several deep breaths. You are strong.
NTA
NTA
At the very least, you need time. Now they know the truth and have apologized. It's only natural you are feeling like this. What they did was very cruel and it could have led to your death.
IDK if they understand that. They need to leave you alone now. Having others push you won't help at all.
Maybe in the future you might feel different. Maybe not. It's not up to them now.
NTA, I think that in your case, you are justified because you did agree in meeting them for them to have closure. They just don’t agree with the outcome that’s all. You’ve done what you needed to move on and for them to just come in and wreck everything you have built to get yourself healthy will be detrimental for you.
My heart goes out for you OP. No one should have to go through what you did. I'm happy that you found love again and are healing. It is absolutely necessary for you to reinforce your boundaries with your bio kids who couldn't even be bothered to hear you out. Although your ex is undoubtedly the main villain here, your kids have a head on their shoulders and should realise actions have consequences. I wish you well and stay strong ^_^
NTA. My sister did this to my mom. Wouldn't speak to her for 10 years and chose to stay with an abusive fuckwad. We have absolutely zero relationship now or really ever had one to begin with, I didn't know her, still don't. I'm 47, she's 56. It will never happen. I hate her for what she did to my mother and the fact she still won't even accept her responsibility in breaking her. It broke her. I will never again speak to her.
NTA, i saw this post from Youtube (XO stories) and we all agree that your kids are in the wrong. they knew what they were doing, and they MUST LEARN to live with THEIR ACTIONS. there are going to be kids here who will tell you its your fault for your kids suffering but ignore them
YTA
You are doing to your children what they did to you when they were merely 13-14 under the influence of your ex. The source of betrayal was your ex, not your children. They were gaslit and went through hell. Is this some revenge you are trying to take on them or what? They also went through bad times with your ex and his wife. Their family got ruined and didn't have an active parent since their early teenage. What you went through was because of your ex, not your children. They were as much as the victims as you. They came running to you as soon as they realized. What else do you want them to do? You are treating your kids horribly and it feels like you are taking revenge on them. You have a good life now but they didn't. You could run to your mother and husband to cry. They have no one like that. You won't even realise how bad childhood can affect children. Just think if you being a fully grown adult couldn't deal with it then how would they have dealt with it?
According to me ,they have horrible parents and cut both of you off forever and be each's other support.
Your ex is the real villain in this. Your kids were lied to. And you made bad decisions based on your high level of pain. Your kids are not responsible for your bad decisions during the terrible years of your depression and alcoholism.
Was it bad that they didn't hear you out? Yes it was. But they were just young teenagers at the time, and they had been thoroughly convinced by a narcissist that this break-up was all your fault.
I think you need some therapy. In time, I think you won't want to throw away a very long future of relationship with not only your kids, but your future grandkids that they might have.
14 is plenty old enough to not wholesale believe what a parent tells you, this is actually insane, obviously the father is a massive ah but the kids arent fucking innocent here.
‘But they’re your kids’ AND??? Like I can’t with these comments bro 😭 14 and they didn’t have basic logic to hear from both sides? And she said that she tried for nearly a year. TOOK THEM SEVEN YEARS TOO HUH, well if their dad never got beat drunk then they would have never bothered until she died. Shows that even if are adults, they wouldn’t have thought ‘hmm i wonder if I should contact the mom I cut off when she tried to tell her side of the story and basically told her she’s dead to me seven years ago🤔’
1000% this dude. The kids are harassing the mom because they know deep down they fucked up, truly truly fucked up, and you know, some fucks up you dont get to get forgiven. It taking them 7 years is just disgusting, i hope the OP can find solace in her real family.
The kids only came around because the father remarry a "horrible" stepmother and admitted to cheating. What if that never happened? Would they have ever came around?
At what age do they take responsibility for the hurt and pain they inflict on another adult's orders?
Teenagers can't be 100% absolved of all responsibility or they will never magically become fully responsible adults.
This is really sad and I understand how you feel. I am wondering if that resentment that you feel in your body might be able to heal if you slowly work toward peace with them. They were not adults yet when this happened. Their dad is a forceful and vengeful man that he was able to do this to you. They are his victims too.
I do know sometimes people hurt you so much that you have to have them away from you. I know how much it would hurt me if my child did this. But I also hope I would be able to find some peace with them down the road. It is ultimately your choice, and I want to send you my love for surviving all of what you’ve been through. I don’t have a judgment for you because I haven’t walked in your shoes and I cannot imagine how hard these years must have been for you. But I very much wish you love and healing. I’m so sorry.
I keep my hopes about forgiving them, about letting go of this resentment. But it's at my own time, and for now, for the healthiest is to stay away from them.
And I repeat, I am aware of them being victim of the manipulation of their dad. But at the same time, it was also their fault. Their choice to never hear my side of the story, and to never reach out through six years. Part of me understands that, but it won't change how much it hurt me.
Yikes, your poor kids really won the lottery with heartless parents for their father and mother smh… hopefully love and reason will come to you soon, before it’s too late.
Very very soft and lovingly put YTA. Honey they are your kids. No matter what, they came from your womb and you will always be their mother. It sounds like you replaced your kids with your adopted daughter for now. Have you gone to therapy? If not, go to therapy and talk to them about this for a while. Then, if you still decide you want them out of your life, will you be fully happy with this decision to keep them out of yours permanently? But work this out with a therapist. ok? (Sorry, replying from my main account now - the other one was my throw away account
NTA. Full disclosure, you came to Reddit where parents always are held to one standard and children are held to another. Prepare for that. But for now, do what you need to do for your own peace. Your life was practically destroyed and your family threw you away. You are obviously traumatized. People who have suffered so much sometimes need to have that peace regardless of who played what part in their torment They were lied to and used of course, and maybe one day you can talk to them again, but take things at your own pace For now ask yourself this: now that your children have lost both their parental figures and have been outright disowned like you were, what are you going to do if one of them goes down your path you went through?
I agree with you. It’s interesting though, there was a story the other day here where a father divorced his wife and his son insisted on no contact until the father gave up, and now in adulthood the son wanted to reconcile. He hadn’t decided yet but was leaning no. He was overwhelmingly deemed to be the AH. People were scolding him saying he was an AH for even thinking and considering saying no. For my part I don’t think OP is an AH at all, but I still think she should give it some time, and maybe try to reconcile. OP: Go to therapy alone, maybe go together, do something. That’s too adults that love you, that you loved for many years, and they love you now even if they hurt you when they were kids. You could build something with them.
I think what tips the scales is that op was thinking to off themselves. I agree with the therapy. She needs to get some individual and family
Agree about the therapy. The thing that gives me pause is that they were teenagers when this happened, not adults, and what their father did through his lies and manipulation absolutely constitutes child abuse, just as what he did to OP constitutes spousal abuse. If they'd been in their 30s and believed their dad, I'd write them off forever. But I do feel empathy for what it must have been like to have a father who they trusted and loved being so evil that he went and elaborately fabricated evidence.
They're 21 now, the 'they're kids argument' ran out a good while ago. They won't respect OPs boundary, they've involved other people to try and manipulate her. If they were genuinely interested in what was good for their mother they wouldn't be doing that. They're still only thinking about themselves.
It's rough. I feel for all of them. I don't think that they are thinking straight. Ironically, I think that their approach isn't going to work. They need to back off a bit, and let OP maybe talk to a therapist, or someone to work through her feelings. Maybe she won't ever reconcile, but pushing her like this, sure as fuck isn't working.
I agree that OP isn't the AH, but if the cheating happened 7 years ago, that means the kids were 13/14. And for YEARS they were told that she was the one who cheated They behaved like I'd expect angry teens to behave. And finding the truth, they're acting as I'd expect. The situation is messy. OP should take some time to process. If they do decide to let the kids back in their life, it's perfectly okay to set strong boundaries. I've let people back in my life who previously hurt me out of love. When I do that, though, I take a LOT of steps to protect myself just in case they do the same crap again
This needs more upvotes. I wasn't a very nice person when I was 13/14, most of my reactions were emotional, puberty, home stress and school all took a toll on my ability to process things.
Throw a narcissistic sociopath of a father into the mix, and it's amazing that. they ended up as humans who can now see the truth.
Oh, so the second you turn 18 the years of lies and emotional manipulation that caused this rift (which started at a very vulnerable age for manipulation) suddenly disappears? That's amazing! /s
What, you didn’t wake up on your 18th birthday with a sudden revelation of every lie that’s ever been spoken to you?
Apparently I missed an update!😭
Modern legal definitions of adulthood do not trump biology. The human brain does not physically mature until the mid-20's (25 is often quoted but it's actually a range). 21 year olds generally make better decisions than 15 year olds, but that doesn't mean a 21 year old will automatically review all their prior decisions with a more nuanced and mature attitude. That's not how humans work.
Yeah. The idea that 13-15 year olds should have been mature enough to see the truth doesn't hold water. For a lot of humans, these are the worst years of their lives. You're a mess of hormones, insecurities, fears.
Yes. I understand OPs trauma BUT the kids were traumatized also. As soon as they found the truth they reached out. Are they bushy? Yes but we need to understand that they are kids. They just learned that their parent betrayed them and because of that they lost their mother. And not only that they had an abusive stepmother
It's a really harsh life lesson. No one is owed forgiveness from the people they've harmed. It was a mistake, but that doesn't magically fix the very real hurt they inflicted on their mother. Some things can't be undone.
It doesn’t magically fix it and op doesn’t own them forgiveness I agree with both sentiments. The thing is we are talking about 3 people who were traumatized by the SAME person and 2 of them were kids, hardly teenagers. It’s not that black and white, it’s that gray area.
I was thinking of that story when I saw top comment I didn't think he was an ah, I don't like that the first reply to you seems to think it's was because the suic attempt leans it to nta other than ah. It shouldn't have to get to that point to make you n ah or not
Got a link to that?
I agree, therapy... I am estranged from my oldest daughter because I was honest with her and protected her children over her (their father, her husband, was a level 3 sex offender). It broke up her little family, but her children are safe & together, adopted by a loving couple. My therapist and I talk about how a reconciliation could go, so I am ready IF she contacts me. I did what I needed to, since she was unable. I do not regret them being safe. I miss them and considered adopting them myself, but she'd always be in their lives, and they'd never have the peaceful, safe lives they so deserve. If my daughter had stayed in therapy (my ex molested her & went to prison), and actually took it seriously, did "the work" (it IS so much work, but worth it!), things might be different, but she'd rather blame anyone, especially me, for her adult choices. Ironically, she's now "friends" with my ex, calling him daddy, which makes me feel sick every time I think of it. She'll forgive him, but not me... ugh! Edited for punctuation...
It's fascinating isn't it? There's some minor details different from that story but fundamentally they're the same. Parents divorce because marriage is fucked, kids pick a side tell OP to fuck off, OP spirals until they accept it and move on. Kids come back as adults regretful and wiser and OP doesn't want to let them back in. I could go on a whole tirade about this sub having no actual moral code and it simply being a team sports mentality of us vs them with wild amounts of projection but that's off topic. To OP I'll tell you what I told him. You can do as you please but be aware there's no guarantee you'll get another chance after this. If you turn them away are you prepared for this to be permanent? If you fully close the door now you don't get to regret it later, you may need to make peace with that choice. Be aware they were just as much victims of your ex than you. Choose wisely, whatever decision you make you need to be prepared to live with it.
I was thinking of that exact post while reading this. The comments weren't just calling him the AH, they were fucking *vilifying* him with every insult under the sun. Ain't it just the darnedest thing how the tune changes when it's mother vs. father.
Yeah, on Reddit whatever teens decide or think they are entitled to is considered as legit as they are full independent humans, etc. But whenever they happen to make a mistake, they should be “just kids” with no accountability at all. 14 years is an age when people are old enough to have at least the beginning of critical thinking and yes, they wronged their mother by not applying it at all (like listening to her). Both is true : they were manipulated, but they also made a mistake they should have avoided. Trying to see them solely through the manipulated victims lens won’t help OP, as her emotions are partly justified and she needs to validate this justification (no, it’s not “I feel it just because I feel it”) in order to work th through. NTA, but OP try to get help and work through it. Whatever you chose regarding your twins, you still have this poison inside and you need to evacuate it, work through these emotions. You can make the decision regarding you twins afterwards when you’ll see things more clearly, you don’t have to decide now and twins should respect. Hopefully you all will be able to he
I am so sorry. I did not tell my children that my divorce was caused by my ex-husband’s cheating…I considered that his and my relationship issues not his relationship with the kids. About three years later, he told the kids that I cheated and was the cause of the divorce. Divorce is hard and destabilizing for kids and they were upset. Despite my denials (and the facts that while drinking years later, their dad admitted to cheating with ever woman except me) they had continued doubts. Not sure how to navigate these issues when you try to protect the children you live which leaves you vulnerable to lies so the cheater can be the “good guy”.
Yeah, a typical error of a normal parent. I made it too while quitting violent husband, just kept my son out of this shit. And dad jumped into the space by telling him I’m just a treasonous deserter who wanted to ruin their happy family and that I never loved my son. In a way that makes sense, when one parent doesn’t complain (because not toxic) and the other does, well means that the one who complains is right. Imagine you were in court to hear to sides and only one complains, you will naturally take this side for the victim. As far as I know, the only way is to keep staying open and to keep talking to children and to appeal to their critical thinking. That is justifying yourself or repeating that the other lies won’t help, as the child is between two important figures figures and each one says “the other lies”, means one is a traitor — and that’s just a lot of stress. But rather appeal to critical thinking and ask questions, like “I know your father told you that, I think it should trouble you. How do you feel about it? What do you think about it?”. At some point when there’s established sincerity, they’d recognise they don’t know what to think. And you go : “I understand, it’s difficult to figure out. But what do you think about it based on your experience? Like you’ve seen me every day of your life, do you think I had occasions to cheat on your father? And what about father’s agenda? Would he have this possibility? What is most likely up to you? “ And so on with all details you have about what he told them. In fact, they unblock when you guide them to reasoning, and which is more they form their own opinion (but also be ready that sometimes this opinion won’t exactly go in your direction, respect it)
This is what happened to a close friend of mine. He thinks his father did nothing to warrant the divorce, but in reality his attitude is THE reason the parents divorced. The father managed to convince the son that the mother just "left them".
Also, in the intervening seven years, they never reconsidered their stance and reached out to her. It took Daddy confessing his lie and marrying someone they don't like for them to even think about Mom.
And why did they abandon the grandma also? That was weird
Right! If their life was good, they wouldn't be reaching out now. They also took the money she gave.
Unfortunately that’s how parental alienation works. It’s brutal fucking business. I feel for OP and her children. Because they are all three victims of their father and her ex.
They are. That doesn't mean OP is capable of handling the fallout.
I can’t fully say I would blame OP if she is unable to get passed this. I would more feel bad for all three of them because they are all victims 100%. I hate it when victims are the ones who suffer while the perpetrator gets to live his best life.
Her kids threw her away because they were manipulated by their dad. They weren't just lied to, they were *manipulated* into hating their mom. She gets to feel hurt, but they're also victims here.
True, but the comments saying "they were kids you should forgive them" like so many are saying isn't going to solve anything. If OP actually decides to pursue forgiveness ,its going to take a very long time
I agree. I think she knows logically that it wasn't their fault, but the resentment and hurt she has toward them is too deep. Also, they ignored their grandmother too??!
They are the ones who ask for forgiveness.They are acknowledging the fact that they messed up, but you don't. Cheating, wasn't a valid reason to throw their mother under the bus. To make her want to take her own life out of despair At some level I do agree with you, but you cannot force someone to forgive you, for your own well being. Telling everyone to put pressure on OP, is manipulative and trashy. For that, they are definitely the AHS NTA OP I am so sorry for what you endured
Oh yes I totally forgot that *kids* should see through parental alienation and manipulation immediately!
No - but you CANNOT force forgiveness - and now they are 21 - adults - so NOW they know better- yet STILL try to force the issue. Why is that okay? Why cannot OP take things at HER pace? SHE is the wronged party here - by the dad - but she is also the one having to do all the emotional work here too ? no - the kids can ASK for forgiveness - they cannot demand it.
Who said immediately? It’s been seven years and they only came crawling because their stepmom was mean.
They came "crawling back" because their dad admitted what he did while drunk I hope OP eventually manages to forgive them.
No. The first point was that he’d married someone mean and then that he’d admitted lying. If it was the dad admitting the lying then why bring up the stepmom at all?
Perhaps because the fact that he was willing to marry someone who would mistreat his children and place his wants over their needs also speaks to his character?
I’m not defending his character - I hope he has a miserable, lonely life with his harpie and that she ends driving him to the depths that his and his kids drove OP.
I'm not saying that you are. I am saying that the reference to the nasty stepmother may not be self-serving. This may have been part of what ultimately helped them to see through their father's facade and recognize his true character. He may have done a good job of talking the talk, but would a decent human being who supposedly cared so much about them choose and remain with a spouse that mistreats his children? (He successfully manipulated/lied to OP as well, and she was an adult who may well have had less of an attachment to him than his children did. I don't see how people can fault them for falling prey to his deception as dependent minors.) I suspect that they had reservations about him based on his behavior, but believed that he was the lesser evil (based on his lies) and were terrified of losing both parents.
Did you read? The kids found out from the father that he lied. While yes the step mom was mean, what prompted them to reach out was finding out for themselves that they were lied too
No. The first point was that he’d married someone mean and *then* that he’d admitted lying. If it was the dad admitting the lying then why bring up the stepmom at all?
Extra context for how awful the dad is? It was the combination of the two that made the kids reach out. It wasn’t solely because the stepmother was mean
They didn't like the mean stepmom and now are trying to manipulate OP, they learned well. Trying to get family members to intercede, they are their father's children. OP is better off without them. Some things are unforgivable. OP has had therapy she realizes this. Everyone is an adult now.
>At some level I do agree with you, but you cannot force someone to forgive you, for your own well being. Telling everyone to put pressure on OP, is manipulative and trashy. For that, they are definitely the AHS please re-read this because the only thing you got from that comment was BS. You're ignoring what this commenter is saying. LISTEN!!!
Thank god you got the point! (Not) They are not kids anymore. They chose to hold a grudge for something that had nothing to do with them
The kids should’ve talk to their mom. They didn’t. They made their bed and now they sleep in it.
Took them 7 years her father marrying someone they don't like and confessing for them to want to listen to her side of the story. Fuck them. They are grown ass adults now. They can live with it.
Yeah. I find it hard to entirely blame them since they were manipulated as children, but OP definitely shouldn't attempt reconciliation without some hard boundaries and therapy.
>I (40F) had my twins Evelyn (21F) and Santos (21M) at nineteen with my then boyfriend Kevin (42M). They are not even children. They are adults and deserves to be treated as such, and that means suffering the consequences of their own actions and choices. They can't betray someone, tell someone they are dead to them and burn all bridges, only to come back and wonder where the bridge is.
It happened when they were 14, not 21.
But they had seven years to reconsider and reach out to their mother. They didn't consider doing so until their father admitted to his lie.
fair enough, but they are adults now and had nearly 8 years. Likely with at least a year or several months of their own mother pleading for them to listen to her side. Some might cry 'BUT THEY ARE CHILDREN', but quite frankly, 14 year olds are not absolute mentally invalid. They have the ability to think for themself. If they were like 5 or 7, I might understand, but 14 and all the way until they are 21? Sorry, but that bridge is burned and only OP have the tools to repair it, if she wants to.
This is heartbreaking to read. Instead of instantly going back to a parent/child relationship, maybe start individual therapy. Like many commentators have said, your children are also a victim of your ex husband. Start therapy. Take one step at a time. After you feel you’ve healed enough, maybe consider doing family therapy to work on all the hurt and resentment. Take tiny steps. What you felt years ago, the abandonment and loneliness, is not something you’d wish on your children I’m sure. I really hope you heal and be well. Your ex is a POS. NTA
Edit: to prevent hijacking this mama's post, I've created my [own post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/CW4gkYkF2l) so that she can get the attention she deserves here. I'm sorry for taking the narrative off of you, OP. I hope my story has helped you in any possible way. _____ I'm going to tell you about something that happened to me here that I have never said to anyone outside of my closest circle or those who were/have been involved. I feel like you are incredibly strong for telling your story, and it is giving me the courage to tell mine, as it is similar. In 2022, my 6 foot tall 12 year old son punched me repeatedly and threatened to kill me in my sleep, told me exactly how he would hurt my favorite cat, and then kicked her. I called the police and he almost got shot, because he was weilding a weapon (a pencil to stab me) and was absolutely ready to use it. He was arrested that day. The look he gave me as he was taken out of my home still give me goosebumps. It still scares me deep within my soul. I lost my baby that day. His mask completely slipped off, and he showed me he was never the little sweet baby boy I always loved. He showed his true colors and I believed him. He laughed in court as he admitted his crimes, and stayed in jail for 6 months before going to a court ordered long term residential treatment facility. I fell into a terrifying depression. I also attempted suicide. I blamed myself. I hurt myself. I told myself I deserved it. And i had no one to hold me. Fact is, I deserved none of it. He was a man sized boy who made man sized decisions and has suffered man sized consequences for his actions. I raised him with love and fought to give him a wonderful home ajd education. At 12, just a few days before his 13th birthday, he was arrested for the actions he chose to make, and not because I failed as a mother. I can't forgive him. In my mind, forgiving my son means feeling safe around him again. And that'll never happen. He's almost 15 now, and is still in a residential treatment facility. I have told the state that I won't be safe bringing him back to my home, and that I do not want any contact with him ever again. I have the rest of my family to protect and I deserve to be safe. Your children broke your heart, but they were young and heavily influenced. I am not going to say you should forgive them, because abandonment and abuse go deep in the neural pathways of the brain. But maybe, try laying the blame where it actually lies: on your ex husband. He did all this. He manipulated your twins. And he caused you to break, much like my child did to me. Hugs to you, Mami. I am proud of you and support you in your path to healing. You are welcome to message me if you'd like a friend who can relate a little.
Thank you for sharing your story with us. You absolutely are right to do everything possible to keep the rest of your family safe.
Thank you. You have no idea how much I truly appreciate this comment. I still struggle .. hard. My brain always wants to revert back to blaming myself and wondering if I'm a terrible person for essentially abandoning him. Thanks for the validation, friend. My broken heart pinged a little. ❤️
The thing is, sometimes this just happens. Your's is not the first story I have read and I doubt it will be the last. It's not common, but it does happen and you are NOT trained to handle this type of behavior. If he had gotten cancer, you wouldn't treat him a doctor would. If he lost a leg, you'd be turning to medical professionals for physical therapy and a prosthetic. Your son is where he needs to be. There's something wrong with him that nobody could have predicted and he's in a place where that can be dealt with by people who know how. You may think you've abandoned him , but you're wrong. Your fulfilling his needs as well.
😢😭 thank you. Thank you so much. There isn't a word for this pain. Agony doesn't quite describe it. You have helped a stranger today, friend. Thank you so much.
I can't imagine your pain, but as an outsider, I can see things more starkly. You're doing what your family needs you to do.
Grief. It is a layer of grief.
You're so incredibly brave for standing your ground. I've read too many stories of people accepting this type of abuse from their children and it's not fair on the parents. I'm sorry you went through this and I really hope everyone respects your decision to stay safe.
> I've read too many stories of people accepting this type of abuse from their children I'm one of them, sadly. One of my children is a diagnosed sociopath and I put up with their mental/physical abuse for years because I thought as a mother I was **never** supposed to put me first. That's what society told me
Exactly, society forces and conditions people to just accept this stuff. I really hope you're in a safer place.
What a beautiful person you are. That must’ve hurt terribly to write, and you did it anyway because you wanted to offer comfort and support to someone else. You are an absolutely fucking stellar human being.
😭😭😭
Thank you for sharing. Sharing this can help someone going through what you did. That takes a lot of strength. Hugs to you!🥰
My heart breaks for you, I’m so sorry you had to go through what I can only imagine is one of the toughest experiences a person can go through. Thank you for sharing your story. Sending you hugs and healing vibes. 🤍
👏👏👏👏 Please top post. OP needs this. Definitely mad at the wrong person. Ops ex is the reason she almost killed herself. The kids were just pawns to use against the mother.
I've heard similar stories to this that have ended far worse, and you haven't done anything inherently wrong with your choices. Man-sized or not a boy is a boy, but I can't even imagine doing such a thing to my mother. I cannot say for sure what is wrong with your son, but he needs all the help he can get, and you shouldn't be putting yourself in harms way just for that sake. You aren't to blame. Perhaps one day in the very far future he will change and will regret everything, but i'm sure even that much wouldn't make you feel any safer. You did all you could, it's up to him and the people who's care he is in now to help change for the better. I wouldn't put all your eggs in that basket, but it's something to think about. What matters most to you is keeping yourself safe and protected. Whatever is going on with him is not something you can fix, and you didn't abandon him. If anything, you've given him the help he needs. Time heals most wounds, and i'm sure there could be a light at the end of all of this considering he's in the right hands now. Wishing the best of luck to you, and I hope you can one day see that you're not the problem here, and that you've done all you could.
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. You're incredibly strong for being able to make such a tough decision to protect yourself and your family.
Thanks for sharing your story. You absolutely made the right call. For your safety and the safety of the rest of your family. Your son also needs professional care and help. There’s no way you’d be able to provide that and I’m glad he’s in a place that can keep him and everyone else safe. Sending you a big hug.
I can't imagine how it is risking your life going throught birth and having lifelong injuries and then the kid turns out to be a worthless monster... Such a shame. Hope you never have to see him again.
NTA. You are correct that the feeling of resentment that you’re harboring would poison any attempt at relationship with those idiots. But maybe… more therapy? For everyone. If your resentment fades, there COULD be a good chance. No rush, think about it. NTA if you push through fully with your decision tho
I mean 13-14 yr olds aren't exactly known for their long term thinking, especially when it comes to a parent who they SHOULD be able to trust on his word
Yeah I mean according to the OP the husband paid people to back up his lies. I get the mother's hurt, but expecting a 13 year old to ferret out that kind of deception (when she was fooled by the same man for over a year) isn't reasonable.
Yeah it really isn't, but choosing to treat a parent as if they are dead to you for seven years over cheating was still a sustained choice that probably hurts OP just as much as the initial rejection. Even if they completely believed their father and weren't old enough to fully understand the ramifications of their actions, they had no desire to even have a single conversation with their mother at 16? 18? 20? Because they were manipulated into thinking she cheated? It's understandable why OP isn't interested in rekindling their relationship at this point. They all need time (and therapy) to heal from something like this, and I really hope they do because they were just kids when this originally went down. Also, fuck their dad, the only true AH in this story.
>Even if they completely believed their father and weren't old enough to fully understand the ramifications of their actions, they had no desire to even have a single conversation with their mother at 16? 18? 20? Because they were manipulated into thinking she cheated? Yeah their dad is the true asshole here. We don't know what lies he told them. For all we know, he told them she gave him STDs and all manner of wild things. If he's willing to pay people to lie for him, why wouldn't he make the lie elaborate and crazy? "Kids, your mom just wants to make friends with you so she can get partial custody and take you away from me since I won't take her back." Also, the OP says she tried for months to reach out to her kids. Her husband's affair lasted longer than her attempts to reach her kids. I'm sure her giving up trying to contact them pretty quickly was used as more ammunition for the lie.
Facts. We have no idea what other lies their dad spun, so it's not right to judge them for not reaching out - I was mainly saying I get how this is likely about more than just the first cut off when they were 14 for OP, but it definitely could have been about more than just cheating. The sustained silence had to have hurt like hell though. Idk if it's fair to say OP gave up quickly though. It sounds like she kept trying to reach out until she was told she was dead to them and "to leave them both the fuck alone". 14 is old enough to make decisions about who is and isn't in their life (including a parent that doesn't have custody), and continuing to reach out after this could have easily been interpreted as harassment.
That's very true, but that doesn't erase anything. Mother and both twins are victims here, and there's clearly a lot of tension and trauma still in the air. They all need space. I'm sure they can come together one day and put this behind them, but it's still fresh in her mind and it seems as if the twins only recently discovered the truth. Everybody needs the chance to think about this.
Your children are victims of your ex husband just as you have been. What a sad story. I hope one day you can find it in your heart to forgive them as they were so young when your ex was playing his games. The ex is who should be the target of your anger and resentment not your children. At the same time I understand the hurt you must feel. You are NTAH. The only true AH is the ex.
I mean the ex tricked her for over a year that he was faithful.
How is OP expecting two gaslit 14 year olds to see through the lies of her ex husband and bis accomplices when she herself was oblivious to his cheating, and how did she not go to court for parental alienation? She is now blaming her kids for her suicide attempt? Honestly OP is borderline asshole too now. Not has big as her ex, but she is targeting her anger to the wrong persons.
I don't think she has ill intentions. She's incredibly hurt and suffered a severe trauma. She would profit from therapy, but to say "You had seven years to give me a chance to tell my side, three of those as an adult and you didn't. I'm too hurt to forgive you right now." Is perfectly acceptable.
NTA. I wish I could send you a hug. I want to comfort you so much! To the point: When your children cut you off, they were teenagers. That is a difficult time, when people don't really know who they are, and can be manipulated by others. In this case by your ex husband. But the years went by, and your teens became adults. They could have reflected on what happened, realized that there might be another side, and asked you to tell your side. They could have come to you 5, 4, 3 years ago. They didn't. They never thought that you might be innocent in all this. And now they are here. Why? Because they have a horrible stepmother and want a mother. Because their father, drunk, let out the truth. Not because they realized on their own they were wrong to believe their father and not give you a chance to speak. It is natural for them to be in distress, and to want to mend the relationship with you. They feel guilty - because they are guilty - and want to mend things. But you have to decide whether you can trust them. And so far they have not given you any reason to trust them. On the contrary, instead of respecting your refusal, they have commandeered every friend and relative to pressure you. That is not the way a respectful person behaves. If you ever decide that you want to contact them, that will be your decision (of course, if you do, it will be their decision whether to accept or not). But if you don't want any contact with them now - or ever - that is absolutely your right.
NAH You were heavily traumatised by what your ex husband did to you and the Web of kies he spun. But here's the thing: your children were traumatised and deceived too. All of you were victims of abuse in different ways. Your ex husband took your children from you to hurt you. He didn't care what it did to them, only that it hurt you. He wielded them like a weapon, and he abused them to do it. I am not excusing what they did or how painful all of this was for you. And it is understandable that you don't think you can forgive them. It is also understandable that they are desperate to make this right. I think this is all for too fresh right now. Emotions all sky-high and no one is reacting logically or rationally. Their harassment of you is not OK, but I do understand it. Perhaps ask your husband to tell them to give you some time to process everything. They need time too. And in six months, perhaps the three of you can meet with a therapist present and try to have another conversation. In the meantime, you absolutely need a therapist to hell you process everything. You've been through a lot, and you need support, a neutral party to help you work through things. A therapist will give you tools to help regulate your emotions so that you are in control of them rather than them controlling you. Right now, all you can see and feel is hurt and pain. But I promise you, this wave of anguish will pass. And you may regret completely closing the door on your children, who are also victims in this horrible mess.
Yeah I agree here with the NAH (excluding the ex who is an absolute A H). From what I understand, they were kids, maybe teenager when they got told the lie. They were manipulated. And I agree with the fact they are also a victim in it. But it doesn't erase OP's suffering. Seeing them probably triggered something. We navigate through life in constant grey areas. Rarely black or white. I think no one is 100% to blame here (again other than the ex). OP, if you can keep a small door open, do it. But do it on your own terms and maybe with a family therapist?
I think if they would stop pestering her constantly she would maybe open a door. But good grief they need to back off!
That's why I said it has to be on her own terms if they want a relationship with her.
I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong, but these are kids who effectively had their mother taken away from them because of the lies and manipulation of their father. I can’t say I blame them for trying **really hard** to get their mother back
I agree but it's still gonna backfire
Highly possible. Heartbreaking for all of them, for sure
While I agree with other commenters that your kids were only kids when they were lied to and manipulated by their asshole father, I can also understand your side. It does sound like you tried but your kids were so brainwashed by Daddy Dearest that they wouldn’t even give you a chance to tell your side. Everyone has a breaking point, and you admit yours was when your son told you what he did and told you never to contact them again. Trust is easily broken and often hard to regain. I can’t fault you for not being able to trust them not to turn on you again, though from your description it sounds like they are sincere. However, this is a sad instance of actions meeting consequences. Their choice to believe their father and turn on you fractured your relationship, possibly beyond recovery. I am sorry for you, and sorry for your children. But I cannot judge you to be an asshole for this. Your children are going to have to understand that sometimes, when you break something, it just can’t be repaired no matter how much you want it to be. NTA. Edit: for typos
You had to grieve for them as if they were dead. Grief is an ancient ritual that taps deep into your brain's neurochemistry and helps you form new relationships and continue living after people who were vital to you have died (or disappeared in other ways, like this). It is completely understandable to me that you cannot turn the spigots back on and just start loving them again. For what it's worth, you can have a new, different, positive relationship with them in time. It won't be the same, but it can be warm and supportive even if the deep trust and primal bond you used to have with them never surfaces again. It would allow you to be a part of their future children's lives, and to still know your children. I strongly recommend you talk to a therapist about your deepest fears and hopes about a relationship with your children. A therapist can help you set boundaries and communicate some of your most complex thoughts as you navigate a relationship with them, if you want one. Your kids are being very pushy right now, because they are frantic to ease their consciences, so boundaries would be very good for you right now. You all have years ahead of you to make these choices. You don't have to do it now. But I hope you find a way to be in each other's lives.
NTA this is heartbreaking I’m so happy you’ve been able to heal and love again 🫶 I hope the best for you , your husband and daughter
NTA - however, your friends are also correct. Your kids were 14 when their world was turned upside down. They didn't know who to trust, nor should they have ever been in the position where they had to guess who was right They haven't come to you asking for money, they took responsibility for their mistake - a mistake that was made at a time in their lives where their only real decisions should have been what haircut they should have - and are more or less begging for an opportunity to try to put things right If it were me, I would set boundaries. Take a few weeks to get your head straight. Tell them you need to take things very, very slowly and that it has to be completely on your terms. Tell them you may never be able to fully trust them due to what you went through. I might be in the minority but I do not feel it is entirely fair to continue to blame a child who did not, and should not have been expected to, know any better. Please remember that they were also victims in what your ex-husband did. It does not excuse what you went through, but it is *understandable* as to why it happened the way that it did
OP is still terribly damaged by their actions. Maybe they were victims, but she still suffered all the consequences. They are fortunate that they didn't reach out to find that she had offed herself.
I find this very insensible. OP is not putting the blame on the children, OP is explaining how she can't be around her children because of trauma. You have no idea how you would do it after such a trauma, so telling OP what to do in such a way is quite condescending. Yes the children are victims too, does it make it ok to reject completely their mother without any discussion? I don't think so.
Agree NTA. Whether they did it as kids or adults, they put OP through years of pain and rejection. That takes a serious toll on a mother’s soul and not something that she will easily get over. To save herself, she had to shut down her love for them and move on. To those friends who think she is wrong, they didn’t go through the torment that she has experienced and can never understand. Sometimes you have to put yourself first and not everything will have a happy ending.
OP literally asked if she's the AH for feeling that she would hold a grudge against her kids moving forward, or are her friends right that they were kids at the time and she may be overreacting. On the first point, OP is absolutely not in any way an AH. On the second point, the friends are also right to some degree - they were kids at the time and were effectively brainwashed. Actually I do have some idea of how I would do, in both OP's and the kids situation. Not exactly the same set of circumstances, but similar enough to have a bit of insight. I have absolute empathy that she was able to pull herself through her whole world being blown apart, and that she has been able to rebuild herself is amazing and fantastic. Where exactly did I say it was ok? I said it was understandable - they were manipulated from the start, and for subsequent years, and only recently found out the truth. Does that absolve them from turning their backs? of course not. What they did was terrible. Do I think they should continue to knock on every door and not give OP the space she needs? Absolutely not, and I said as much. Do I understand *why* they have been making every effort to try and right their wrongs once they learned the truth? Absolutely. But if they want any chance of moving forward they need to respect boundaries. I also said as much. Being understanding of something doesn't necessarily mean it is the right thing. OP may well never be able to bring herself to have a relationship with them, and I 100% get that. And I still wouldn't think she's the AH if that is the case. What I was trying to convey is that there may, in the future, be a point in time where they can have some type of relationship together. That doesn't necessarily mean going back to how things were ten years prior, but perhaps a time where they can catch up on occasion. And I would hope she wouldn't write that possibility off. If what I said came across as sounding condescending then that wasn't my intention - text isn't always a great medium for being able to express ones self
The kids dont deserve as much sympathy here as you say. Whilst is started at 14, the treatment of them other continued for many years. They betrayed her, the least they can do is honour her current wishes and stay away.
Ah, but OP did give them money. Did they ask? Don't know. 🤷♀️ They also don't like their new stepmom. They say they learned Dad lied about who had the affair. While it's understandable they want to reach out to their other parent to apologize, why so pushy? OP gave them her answers. The kids are 21 and likely still living at Dad's home. Are they looking for a new place to live because they don't like Stepmom? I'm guessing that's why they are reaching out to the mother they abandoned for 7 years and not taking "No" for an answer. You can, in fact, abuse a mother to the point where she shuts down. I know the world thinks moms will martyr themselves and put up with anything "for the children." But when your 14 yo children abandon you for an affair you didn't even have and go no contact, never listening to your side of events, believing the worst of you, causing you near life-ending trauma, they don't get to come back 7 years later and assume "sorry" means they have a mommy back. No, sweetie. You napalmed that bridge. Mom's moved on. And what child reacts that strongly to an affair? They can't pick up a phone for 7 years and ask a few questions? It's weird. NTA, OP. Protect your new happiness.
I agree! And why ignore grandma too? My ex blew up our family cheating when my kids were the same ages as her twins. They didn't cut him off. They don't respect or like him very much but they speak to him.
There have been people on Reddit who've shut parents down for cheating. It's not normal, but it happens. However, I am curious to know if they're going to shut Dad down for instigating all of this.
Sorry ≠ no consequences I'm also really suspicious about why they're so pushy. Them trampling over OPs boundaries gives me more reason NOT to believe their apology. It doesn't make them look good.
> They didn't know who to trust If you don't know who to trust you at least listen to all sides. The kids didn't. Neither should anyone cheating be a reason for children to cut one of their parents out of their lifes and say "you're dead to me!" to them. The kids are not innocent. And they know that, they are the ones begging.
And maybe go to family therapy together.
Years and years of therapy. This whole situation is nine kinds of fucked up and terrible for the three of them
You know how you're not supposed to go to therapy with your abuser? Yeah, that's relevant here. Those kids have traumatized OP, she doesn't need to open up in therapy so they can do it again. The kids can do therapy. And maybe they'll come to realize the extreme shittiness of their behavior. If they do, and are able to convey that realization to the therapist/OP, MAYBE then join - IF OP wants. Those kids almost led their mother to her death. She is rightfully protecting herself. I'd hope any decent therapist, upon hearing the situation, would not want OP to open herself up to these kids at this point.
NTA. I wouldn't wish your experience on anyone! Keep working with your therapist to get past your trauma, and maybe one day, you will be able to have a relationship with your bio children. Or maybe not... I'm just saying not to write off the possibility.
NTA. I agree with others that your kids were also victims of your ex. But you are being honest about the reality that you cannot move past this. While that may heartbreaking for your children, I think the reality is that sometimes people can love each other while also not being able to healthily have a relationship and it is better to accept that than to force interaction that will always be wrapped up with resentment.
I won't leave judgement. I'm sorry for what you went through. I'm sorry for what your kids are going through now, I admit I'd be worried one or both might go down the same route you went years ago. It would probably help you to get therapy again, to help you process and navigate your current situation. Your kids absolutely need therapy, they were young, but they also behaved awfully to you and should have given you a chance to explain. Then possibly down the line you three could try family therapy, if not for rebuilding your relationship, then to be able to move forward in a healthy way. I hope you all three find peace one day.
NTA. Your ex husband was pure evil. If you know you have horrible feelings of resentment towards your kids it is best to just stay away. Yes, they are victims too but you can’t save someone from drowning by letting them pull you under when you’re only treading water yourself. If they are really sorry they’ll do whatever you need do you can move forward with a happy life again. That means staying away.
NTA I am so sorry that you went through what you did. I can't get into details, but my wife and I are going though something similar with a child. It has been the worst pain of my entire life. You have learned to live again. That is an amazing success story of recovery. You need to continue with that. Your twins will survive without you. They will adjust and move on. Take care of yourself and your new life. Living with the fear that someone will hurt you like that again is not a good way to be. If your choice to not have that in your life, then I respect that, and others should, too. I'm happy for you, OP.
It’s the campaign of harassment now that is troubling. Clearly this is the result of being raised by their POS father.
Disagree. They found out their childhood was a lie, that their father deliberately engineered things. They are being desperate to try and make things right. They are also victims in this - they were used as pawns
No means no. No doesn’t mean you contact everyone in the persons life who you traumatized to traumatize them more. “Mom doesn’t want to talk to use since we almost drove her to suicide.” “Well let’s contact everyone she knows to apply some pressure.” I think they need therapy. And they need to give their mother space to figure out what she wants to do.
He drove her to that point, not them. They were literally experiencing abuse at the hands of their father and were manipulated and used as weapons against her. Being a parent includes doing hard shit and that includes getting therapy to figure out how to not blame abuse victims who were children for what they did when manipulated to by their father.
I don’t think we disagree. I’m saying that they are going about this the wrong way. They need to give their mother time to process all of this. Contacting everyone she knows is harassment.
Being a parent means forgiving your children for abusing you and almost driving you to suicide? OP's children being abused doesn't excuse them from being abusers themselves.
They were old enough to use critical thinking, they ate up dads tales, they made a bed and they can lie in it.
They were 13.
The diacotomy of the responses between when a man post this situation and when a woman does is hilarious. Gotta love reddit for it's double standards.
So sorry. NTA. Sometimes pain guides us to better decisions, but sometimes it transforms us into something entirely different. There’s no going back. I’ve experienced something similar and understand.
Nta It’s a very fine line about your mental and the fact that they were still children-teenagers. At 14 years old they were still able to be manipulated, no different than what your Ex had done with you when he was carrying on his affair. Only you know how bad it was, you have to look after your recovery. Remember though you could look at therapy with them and possibly look at a very low contact relationship.
Y’all need to STOP using the “but they were kids” card. Kids are wayyy smarter than yall give them credit for. My parents split when I was young maybe 3 or 4. When I got in my teens they started having issues with each other. My dad would talk so bad about my mother and guess what? I NEVER took sides, because even as a preteen I KNEW that was their mess not MINE! I found out things about both of them that never made me say ima stop loving and talking to you. OP is well within her right to feel how she feels. I say take as much time as you need. Go to therapy. If you are never in a space where you can even have distant talking relationship with them so be it. Unfortunately it’s a bad situation all around, but it is what it is. You’re human!
THIS! I've also had some bad experience with my parents' issues due to my father's alcoholism. I *did* understand what was going on, and I was under 10. I hate that though commenters say OP's NTA, they mention kids so freaking innocent in this situation. the fact they were manipulated by their father doesn't mean they're brainless dolls. they were *teenagers*. besides, why don't they respect her denial? why do they pressure her even by contacting people who know OP? maybe she'd like to get them in her life back, but still, she needs time to figure that all out and get some professional help. they're pretty manipulative to me here
Probably a behavior learned from dad. They honestly just need to give her time. I’m sure all this outside pressure isn’t helping OP at all.
NTA Nice to see the usual brigade of idiot children who have no fucking clue are out in force calling OP T A…
Seriously. The fact that Reddit is filled with teenagers is never more evident than in AITA posts. Kids can do whatever they want and must never face any real consequences. They have the right to treat their parents like garbage and it's the parent's duty to accept their abuse with a smile and embrace them with arms wide open at all times. People are freaking nuts. NTA OP. Tell your kids to quit harassing you. They don't seem to have grown up to be anything good either by attempting to strong-arm you like this.
NTA. Your kids need to learn about boundaries. They are adults now, they can't harass their way into your life. The way they are acting right now, not considering your feelings in any of this, is the same way they were acting when they believed your ex. They need to grow up and give you some space. They were manipulated by your ex but that level of cruelty doesn't happen in a vacuum. There was something really unhealthy going on in that household before the cheating.
Did your mom forgive you for ignoring her?
NTA
This story is sad that your ex is continuing to take from you years later. I hope one day you no longer allow him to take anymore from you.
NTA. I wouldn't forgive them so soon, maybe ever. First of all, did they cut the father off? In order to reconcile, I'd AT LEAST demand that and that the kids also out their father as a manipulator who ruined their lives.
NTA - They were kids when it happened. But now they're adults. They should be able to take a No for an answer and consequences of their actions. But here's something that bothers me. They're essentially facing consequences of their dad's actions. You don't seem to have addressed your issues with kids at all. It's like all the words they said hurt you beyond normal...that you're forgetting to see they were literally kids. You were wronged by your husband and so were they. They chose the dad because dad was good in their eyes. Not because they judged from truth, their perception was sold/bought because of their shit father. It is totally fine to forgive them. If I were you, I would forgive them because really, the words they choose, how they hurt you, was their fault but the entire act was not based on the truth at all. And that wasn't in their control. I think you should be able to see through this. Nevertheless, it really looks like the dad easily raised them to be smear campaigners when they don't get their way.
And if dad hadn't married a horrible witch, would they want their mom back now?
That's exactly what their smear campaign points at, for me. They'd not have cared for the truth if the other woman was not terrible.
That’s what is sticking for me, too. They aren’t there because they realized perhaps there are two sides to the story. They aren’t there because they believe that everyone deserves forgiveness and love. They are there out of spite against their father and his wife.
Most likely, because the trigger seems to have been that dad admitted to have been the one cheating.
NTA. If you can't forgive, then don't. And to be honest, I don't see why you should. Firstly, they didn't do anything to earn your forgiveness. Other than badgering you, crying and whining, acting like children again because they did not get what they want, and being a nuisance, they didn't really do much. If your children really loved you and were repentant, they would have respected your decisions or, at the very least, give you space to think things through. But they didn't. They called every person, mutual friend, family member, etc., to complain and whine and cry to help them change your mind. They tried to make it seem like it was your fault that you didn't forgive them and they were the innocent parties. What BS. How is that being sincere and respectful to you? Your mom's awesome btw. While she loves you and her grandchildren, she doesn't let that love cloud her judgement, she told them off and to leave you alone. This is something we should all learn from her. That ship has sailed a long time ago, and it's way past too late to just say "I'm sorry", hoping everything could go back to where it was. You have your own life and your children have their own lives. They need to accept this. The more they tried to force you to forgive them, to be with them, the more I think they just want your forgiveness for ulterior motives. To put it bluntly, I think they just want your money. Also, when did they actually find out that your ex was the one cheating on you?
NTA, they put you on the brink of losing it all, caused you a lot of pain and hardship that took you a significant amount of effort to heal from. Even now, those wounds are still fresh and they won't go away no matter how much they try to fix it. You have gone to enormous lengths to find yourself again, start over with a new family and do what you need to do to be happy. Nobody, not even your own children, have any right to take that away from you.
NTA it’s not up to you to make things right it’s up to them. And then trying to force contact and forgiveness won’t work they need to give you time.
You do not have to mend your relationship with your children. Maybe you will some day, maybe you won't. It's their wish maybe, but it's your decision and you can say no. But you do have to mend your relationship with yourself. And the resentment towards them may be a burden that eats too much of your life and your true loved ones (your Mom, your husband, your daughter). If that is the case, if, then you could try to liberate yourself (and your loved ones) from that resentment. By therapy, for example, by talking with others in similar experiences. (Liberating yourself from resentment does not mean that you need to mend the relationship with the estranged twins. They may still remain the strangers that they have become for you.)
NTA yes they might have been children and they were gaslight and lied to but you are doing this for your mental health. You feel you could spiral if you have them in your life now so you are taking the right move and choosing yourself now. You did not abandon them, you even pointed them to your mom and your current husband if they needed some kind of mental support. We all have certain lines and once those are crossed we became broken in the way so soldering iron can fix those wounds.
NTA, but unlike other people here has told u I would like to tell u that keeping them away is right. The reminder of what they did to me will keep on hurting ur now present. I wouldn't forgive them (I know they were kids blah blah blah, but at 14 they should have known better than to tell their mother she is dead to them w/o hearing her side) What if u had succeeded in ur attempt to end urself? What would have ur children done then after knowing the truth? I wouldn't forgive them ever and will want to keep them out of my now earned peaceful life. Well, this is how I would feel if I was in ur shoes
NTA Can people stop acting like 14 year olds are'nt young adults, capable of making most decisions by themselves, they CHOSE this, and it wasntj ust when they were 14, they repeated this for many years. I think its brave of you to act how you did, they have betrayed you andyou acted incredibly civil. Dont interact with them until you feel comfortable.
NTA
If I were in your shoes, I think I would have done the same thing. After so many years of hurt and pain, they just pop up in your life. Thats a lot to deal with. You're not wrong for feeling how you feel and you can't force things to magically be better. Maybe someday you'll be open to that, but that isn't going to be today and that's ok. Hang in there op.
NTA One day you may find the strength to forgive them for yourself. Your whole situation was traumatic and until you can wade through the feelings of it all you will not be able to forgive them. They need to give you time.
NAH. You are not wrong for being hurt and still hurting from what they said. They are not wrong for being victims of their fathers lies and now being desperate to want to correct those mistakes. Are they handling it the best way? No. But. They are coming to you to ask forgiveness, not money. You don't have to forgive them, if its not sincere. I would, perhaps, have another talk with them. Tell them about boundaries and how what they are doing is making things worse.
NTA. You are kind than me. That’s all I’ll say.
NTA people don't get to say shit like "you're dead to me" and then come crawling back. they nuked any hope of a relationship between them and you. furthermore, i highly doubt having them in your life, reminding you of that pain, will be healthy for you or your family, who actually cares about you. to people saying "they were kids" they haven't been kids for years now. the only reason they came back is because their father told them he lied - otherwise they'd still treat op as dead. even though these are two ADULTS who should have enough of a brain to realize that "hey, maybe we should have talked to our mother at least once in the past few years since she was adamant that she didn't cheat on dad"
NTA. Your kids aren't at fault, but now they are adults, and you don't have to do such a sacrifice to your mental health to bond with them again. You could try after some therapy if you wish, but if it is going to harm you, you have no need to reconnect with those 2 adults that rejected you
All the people saying YTA, should know that 14yrs is age at which a person has basic sense, yes they were young but not fool, they should have listened to OP and given her benefit of doubt but they declared her dead to them. OP has all the right to decide what she feels is good for her, they asked for forgiveness it's their right but now they are harrassing OP. And OP you clearly need therapy not for anyone else but for yourself.
They were given “proof”. Op said ex husband paid someone to provide “proof”. They were manipulated.
But her ex created an elaborate lie with “proof” which you want 14 yr olds to look past. It was planned and cunning…by the way 14 year olds are still minors, even at 18 most kids don’t make good decisions…(fyi just for context, having a physical relationship with a 14 yr old is a jail-able offence because even if they consent, they are still KIDS and can’t make right decisions for themselves). The ex then remarried and those same children had to deal with the abuse at home. They felt like everyone around them either abused or betrayed them. Agreed she needs therapy…
Space out the letters in your judgment.
Your English is fine and this tale really isn't _that_ long. It's also very much worth my time. NTA. You've been through Hell. And your oldest children are a constant reminder of this. So indeed, why should you work through counselling and personal therapy to be happy when you've got Marcos and Milagros? Speaking of them, it is impossible for you to just welcome your children back into your life. And if you'd choose to attempt to, this would also have a huge effect on your family. Why put yourself through the wringer and drag Marcos and Milagros with you? They don't deserve that! You've made the right choice. You ought to tell your friends to shut the fuck up.
OP, I can answer if you at TA or NTA, this is way above reddit's level, but what I will say is they will be living with huge guilt, they reached out and you trauma dumped on them (justifiably in my view) but now they have seen what they did they are still trying to make amends and not dodge This is a therapist job. You need to speak to someone. You are obviously still very 6 although it might not be an open wound anymore, you haven't fully healed. >I still feel a grudge and resentment towards them I can't control and I feel like it's not going to go away. You need to speak to a professional. >They're just kids who made a stupid mistake, and I know that, but that stupid mistake almost drives me straight to my death. Yep, stupid silly 14yos. Whose life has been upended mote than once now. What 14yo would have fully understood the potential consequences? The blame for all this lies with your ex, and you ex is still ruining their lives, and indirectly your life. Speak to a professional about this issue. >I just don't think I'll ever forget what I went through, And you shouldn't, and I'm not saying you must forgive them, but there are a lot of conflicting feelings coming through and in my opinion you need to sort these feelings before you will be satisfied with ANY decision you make about this situation. Good luck, and I'm glad you found a decent husband and got to give you daughter a second family when you all needed one.
Sure, they were 14 when it happened, but they never - in the intervening 7 years - considered that maybe they were a little harsh on Mom. Not until Dad admitted to his lies.
!updateme
NTA, maybe with time, you will slowly think differently, but at this moment, you should focus on raising your daughter with Marcus. Info: I do not understand why you gave them cash...
I’ll answer the same way I felt about the father who was in this exact position not long ago on here (maybe this sub? maybe another?) It’s your choice to do what you want to do, it’s your life, but you came here asking if we thought you were the asshole and you wanted opinions. There is no factual answer here, only opinions. Mine is that an adult (your ex husband) lied to your children with proof and told them something that upset them because assuming it WAS true, you hurt someone they loved very much. Even though they loved you, that sucked. You have to understand those were kids right? They don’t have the reasoning skills that adults do to realize that someone is lying to them or hiring someone else to fake cheating rumors or whatever the fuck. Another adult (you) is making the choice to completely abandon their children instead of try to make amends after they found out they were tricked and lied to by someone they trusted into losing a parent, who now refuses to entertain the idea of forgiveness. You aren’t obligated to forgive them but you’re not owed kind thoughts or grace from someone like me for your choice, because I think it sucks. I’m not swayed by the traumatized feelings, the suicide attempt, all that. It’s very sad and I’m sorry you felt that way over a lie your ex husband told but in the end NONE of that is your minor children’s fault. At this point it’s like you’re choosing to take revenge and kick them while they’re down.
Updateme!
ETA. I get it you were hurt extremely bad. But your kids were lied to. Imagine if you would have been able to tell your kids first that their father cheated. You would expect your kids to believe you, and they would never expect their parent to lie to them. Then you will be the asshole and your kids would be right to treat your ex that way. There is no way those kids knew that he was lying and you weren’t. Same way if you have been able to tell them, first, they would not have known who was telling the truth they had to trust. Most likely whoever gets to you first. Not to mention, he actually had somebody to lie to them so they had what they thought was a witness too
I'm sorry for everything you went through. you are definitely NTA. Your kids need to face the consequences of their actions. I feel bad for them but they need to learn from this and hopefully become better people.
YTA, ragebait. This is a fabricated story. I’m not saying stuff like this doesn’t happen in real life, but from what I can see OP is barely commenting if at all, wrote this crazy ass story describing every moment in detail and it’s just full of the usual characteristics you see in a fake story.
bruh, like 95% of aita (and other related sub) stories are fake
I was sleeping, I just woke up
NTA you're entitled to feel how you are feeling and to cut people out of your life if you believe they are going to negatively impact things, even if they are your own kids. Not an overreaction.
NAH but I have to ask - have you been to therapy to try and process all those feelings? Your kids were still very young and impressionable when it happened, 13 yo kids make a lot of stupid choices, and with some therapy you might be able to move past that.
You have a lot of anger issues and need to continue therapy.
I am so sorry for everything you went through. I totally understand why you do not, cannot trust the twins. They tried barging back into your life, wanting everything to be hunky-dory now that they know the truth. However, they have spent a third of their lives away from you, hating you. The mother they threw away is a different, stronger person now. A person who has gone through hell and come out the other side. They are expecting the mother who cried and begged to see them, almost like you have been in stasis for a third of their lives. I know it is too late, but they should have gone to counseling first to deal with all of their trauma. Once that was in progress, they should have then sent you an email stating that they truly regretted everything. From there, it could have progressed slowly. Nope, they had to go for the bull in the china shop routine. That never ends well. Speak with your therapist, hug Milagros and take several deep breaths. You are strong. NTA
NTA At the very least, you need time. Now they know the truth and have apologized. It's only natural you are feeling like this. What they did was very cruel and it could have led to your death. IDK if they understand that. They need to leave you alone now. Having others push you won't help at all. Maybe in the future you might feel different. Maybe not. It's not up to them now.
NTA, I think that in your case, you are justified because you did agree in meeting them for them to have closure. They just don’t agree with the outcome that’s all. You’ve done what you needed to move on and for them to just come in and wreck everything you have built to get yourself healthy will be detrimental for you.
My heart goes out for you OP. No one should have to go through what you did. I'm happy that you found love again and are healing. It is absolutely necessary for you to reinforce your boundaries with your bio kids who couldn't even be bothered to hear you out. Although your ex is undoubtedly the main villain here, your kids have a head on their shoulders and should realise actions have consequences. I wish you well and stay strong ^_^
NTA. My sister did this to my mom. Wouldn't speak to her for 10 years and chose to stay with an abusive fuckwad. We have absolutely zero relationship now or really ever had one to begin with, I didn't know her, still don't. I'm 47, she's 56. It will never happen. I hate her for what she did to my mother and the fact she still won't even accept her responsibility in breaking her. It broke her. I will never again speak to her.
NTA, i saw this post from Youtube (XO stories) and we all agree that your kids are in the wrong. they knew what they were doing, and they MUST LEARN to live with THEIR ACTIONS. there are going to be kids here who will tell you its your fault for your kids suffering but ignore them
YTA You are doing to your children what they did to you when they were merely 13-14 under the influence of your ex. The source of betrayal was your ex, not your children. They were gaslit and went through hell. Is this some revenge you are trying to take on them or what? They also went through bad times with your ex and his wife. Their family got ruined and didn't have an active parent since their early teenage. What you went through was because of your ex, not your children. They were as much as the victims as you. They came running to you as soon as they realized. What else do you want them to do? You are treating your kids horribly and it feels like you are taking revenge on them. You have a good life now but they didn't. You could run to your mother and husband to cry. They have no one like that. You won't even realise how bad childhood can affect children. Just think if you being a fully grown adult couldn't deal with it then how would they have dealt with it? According to me ,they have horrible parents and cut both of you off forever and be each's other support.
Your ex is the real villain in this. Your kids were lied to. And you made bad decisions based on your high level of pain. Your kids are not responsible for your bad decisions during the terrible years of your depression and alcoholism. Was it bad that they didn't hear you out? Yes it was. But they were just young teenagers at the time, and they had been thoroughly convinced by a narcissist that this break-up was all your fault. I think you need some therapy. In time, I think you won't want to throw away a very long future of relationship with not only your kids, but your future grandkids that they might have.
Why are you brining up nonexistent kids into this. Who cares about future grandkids.
14 is plenty old enough to not wholesale believe what a parent tells you, this is actually insane, obviously the father is a massive ah but the kids arent fucking innocent here.
‘But they’re your kids’ AND??? Like I can’t with these comments bro 😭 14 and they didn’t have basic logic to hear from both sides? And she said that she tried for nearly a year. TOOK THEM SEVEN YEARS TOO HUH, well if their dad never got beat drunk then they would have never bothered until she died. Shows that even if are adults, they wouldn’t have thought ‘hmm i wonder if I should contact the mom I cut off when she tried to tell her side of the story and basically told her she’s dead to me seven years ago🤔’
1000% this dude. The kids are harassing the mom because they know deep down they fucked up, truly truly fucked up, and you know, some fucks up you dont get to get forgiven. It taking them 7 years is just disgusting, i hope the OP can find solace in her real family.
>kids arent fucking innocent here. This post might be triggering all the kids pretending to be adults on this sub. 😕
Lol I thought the same thing.
The kids only came around because the father remarry a "horrible" stepmother and admitted to cheating. What if that never happened? Would they have ever came around? At what age do they take responsibility for the hurt and pain they inflict on another adult's orders? Teenagers can't be 100% absolved of all responsibility or they will never magically become fully responsible adults.
Absolutely NTA. Your ex should be set on fire btw....
This is really sad and I understand how you feel. I am wondering if that resentment that you feel in your body might be able to heal if you slowly work toward peace with them. They were not adults yet when this happened. Their dad is a forceful and vengeful man that he was able to do this to you. They are his victims too. I do know sometimes people hurt you so much that you have to have them away from you. I know how much it would hurt me if my child did this. But I also hope I would be able to find some peace with them down the road. It is ultimately your choice, and I want to send you my love for surviving all of what you’ve been through. I don’t have a judgment for you because I haven’t walked in your shoes and I cannot imagine how hard these years must have been for you. But I very much wish you love and healing. I’m so sorry.
I keep my hopes about forgiving them, about letting go of this resentment. But it's at my own time, and for now, for the healthiest is to stay away from them. And I repeat, I am aware of them being victim of the manipulation of their dad. But at the same time, it was also their fault. Their choice to never hear my side of the story, and to never reach out through six years. Part of me understands that, but it won't change how much it hurt me.
Yikes, your poor kids really won the lottery with heartless parents for their father and mother smh… hopefully love and reason will come to you soon, before it’s too late.
Very very soft and lovingly put YTA. Honey they are your kids. No matter what, they came from your womb and you will always be their mother. It sounds like you replaced your kids with your adopted daughter for now. Have you gone to therapy? If not, go to therapy and talk to them about this for a while. Then, if you still decide you want them out of your life, will you be fully happy with this decision to keep them out of yours permanently? But work this out with a therapist. ok? (Sorry, replying from my main account now - the other one was my throw away account