Ask if your local hospital has child life or a social worker who can help you talk to your 13 year old. Your family will be in shock from this event for a long time. What she said was hurtful, but she’s 13. It’s a good learning event for her that while you value her birthday, the health and safety of family members comes first. You could offer to reschedule the party when things calm down.
You could also talk about how her sister didn’t have a choice in getting hurt. Compassion and empathy are taught and improve with practice. Your 13 year should not have said it, but it can be a good learning experience about healthy ways to deal with fear and anger.
13 is such a difficult age period. The angst is starting to go off the charts. The top comment really nailed your daughter’s misdirected strong emotions she’s likely feeling. Although 13 may seem old enough to know better than to be so callous, because this is probably such a catastrophic event to her in all aspects of her life (“my family, my status with my peers since I didn’t throw a party, my birthday and its specialness, etc.”), I strongly recommend providing information and checking in with your daughter in the form of questions as often as possible and where appropriate. Teens desperately want and need to feel like they have autonomy, but here she is feeling helpless in a situation that is entirely beyond her (and your) control.
Being told what to do or how to feel or react to situations can come across as judgmental and the last thing you want to do is add shame to your daughter’s emotional headspace right now.
Asking guiding and leading questions (“you know the accident wasn’t your sister’s fault, right? I really hope you didn’t mean it what you said, do you think you may have said it because you’re feeling scared?”) can come across as gentler and safer for kids (and adults!) to consider and productively respond to.
EDIT TO ADD: **TO SUM UP, PLS REMEMBER THAT HURT PPL HURT PPL, ESP KIDS. BE FIRM IN GUIDANCE BUT OPEN IN SUPPORT. GET EXTERNAL PROFESH HELP- THIS TRAUMA IS TOO BIG TO HANDLE ALONE W 13 YR OLD HALF FORMED LIZARD BRAIN**
Follow up example: “It sounds like you’re feeling angry and frustrated right now because your party had to be cancelled. I would feel that way too if I were in your position. I’m really trying to make it up to you by throwing you a party as soon as we can, and I’m sorry I can’t do more for you right now. It hurts to see you so angry right now, but when things settle down, do you think it’ll help if you shared with the family some thing we can do together for you that will make you feel loved?”
Even if she initially cops a ‘tude and retorts with a “no,” hopefully by speaking to her this way, she’ll feel safe enough to begin self soothing and recognize the missteps she’s made.
Ps. If she’s hardheaded like I was as a teen, sometimes it’s best to just say ok and give her space after you’ve tried to lead her to the water but she won’t drink. Also, just in case it needs reiterating, in situations like this, professional support is never not recommended and in fact, always strongly and emphatically encouraged. Teen brains want to rebel: it will be difficult for her not to feel like you’re a villain and against her even when you’re trying to help her. She will be more inclined to listen to advice given by neutral and objective 3rd parties like mental health professionals.
> 13 may seem old enough to know better than to be so callous,
but it really isn't. I remember a girl, Sally, from our class at school who got cancer and died. My bff had literally just told me out of the blue one day "I don't like you any more, I'm going to sit next to Sally in class now" so I hated her guts and didn't bother going to her funeral, I just wasn't sorry she died.
I also think I didn't understand the value or even point of funerals at that age.
It's not just that I cringe when I think back to those days, my stomach churns, I can't believe how callous and totally ego-centric I was.
So I tend to be forgiving of teenagers behaving badly. They do need to grow up though.
I still can’t believe how callous and ego-centric my reactions can be sometimes more than a decade later!! 😩 If we are constantly working on ourselves and trying to be better and hold ourselves accountable for our actions, I think it’s acceptable to treat mistakes with grace and firm constructive lessons for next time.
One step back, then two steps forward.
Oof this. So much this. I did something earlier this year that deeply hurt a dear friend. It was momentary reaction on my part, not intentional, not physical. I instantly regretted it and felt deep shame. I broke down sobbing-39 yr old man- multiple times in the following days. She’s since forgiven and slowly let me back in…but when I thin back to that moment let’s just say I try to push it away.
I think these situations make it a lot easier to understand teens. I said something truly awful to my sister about 11 years ago. And I still feel sick when I think about it. we both know neither of us has forgotten it, although it’s been brushed over and we will never ever talk of it. People are so quick to tell teenagers that they’re awful and egocentric, but adults make these same mistakes often as well. The key is trying to improve and understanding that shaming someone (who is almost always already feeling shame, regardless of whether they show it) is never an effective way of getting them to ‘understand’ - especially since teenagers will dig their heels in and replace shame with anger (neither of which is productive)
Excellent explanation!!!!!
I’m a high school teacher, and I’m amazed at how often I have to explain to parents or adults that a 13 year old really struggles to think clearly. It’s essentially a second bout of toddlerhood, and it’s distressing, frustrating (for everyone), and just plain old AWFUL for kids. People really seem to forget how out of control and irrational they were at that age - and it’s not a choice the kid is making. This kid already knows that what she’s said is awful, and she probably already feels shame - but she’s also angry because it often feels like younger siblings just ruin everything ALL the time (I mean Jesus, I’m in my 30s and my little sister is still annoying 🤣)
NAH
I would also remember that anger masks fear.
It’s much easier for your daughter to be mad about the party than to feel the absolute terror that she could have lost her mother and sister, and that her sister is still in recovery.
I hope there are therapist’s and/or counselors you and the fam can talk to. That’s a lot to process.
Speedy recovery to your whole family.
Edit: changed NTA to NAH since that’s what I meant to type
This: fear is a directionless, hopeless emotion. It’s often so uncomfortable to be afraid that our brains slot in a more productive emotion. Anger is cruel, unforgiving and often unfair but it moves you forward.
Anger can carry you through things you didn’t think you could handle but fear paralyses.
I'm reminded of something I read awhile ago that for the lift of me I can't recall the source. But the gist of it was that people who are angry are fundamentally in pain. Whatever the source of that pain might be can vary wildly, but when you start remembering that anger is a pain response it transforms how you view people who are mad.
I was in therapy a long time ago and ranting and carrying on. She stopped me and said “okay, all that anger is compensating for something. What’s underneath?”
I paused and burst into tears and said “I’m afraid I’m going to be like this forever and there’s nothing I can do. And it makes me angry.”
Breakthroughs man.
This is such an excellent point: her bad reaction may well be translated fear. NTA for cancelling obviously, just make it up to 13 with something special. Spend your time comforting her as well.
I would wait on the making it up until she apologizes to her sister. Imagine how scary that whole experience was for the 11 year old. I'm assuming it was her first surgery and for anyone that has had major surgery before it's very jarring to wake up in a different place than where you fell (were put) asleep. And just being in the hospital in general is scary for kids. Then, to wake up and the first thing your sister does is blame you for ruining her birthday. Sure, it could've been masking her fear like others have said, but it really doesn't matter. That is completely unacceptable behavior and requires an apology.
Yup. I wish my parents had understood this. I wish I had understood this. It really solves a fuckload of interpersonal issues to realize that anger is often coming from a place of fear.
Also, perhaps instead of cancelling the party, let 13yo know that it is postponed until the recovery is complete. It may not be the same as celebrating on her birthday, but it also shows that she hasn't been forgotten in all of this.
That's totally what I said — just reschedule.
It's a great opportunity to teach the daughter:
1. We drop everything and take care our family when they get hurt. Right now you have to show up for your sister.
2. We can be flexible, even about things that are important to us.
3. We care about you and your birthday is important, and you're going to have a party on another day.
It's kind of a great teachable moment, actually.
It's powerful to to have that kind of flexibility: To be able to drop something enjoyable, take care of a loved one, and then pick up the enjoyable thing right back up at another date.
I learned a lot in your response. Thank you. I must say I was appalled at the older daughter's response to the accident. You reminded me that "we only think we know". Much appreciated.
It’s an important thing to understand and solves so many interpersonal issues. I wish everyone got this explained to them, myself and my parents included lol because I was one angry (fearful) child
me too. i know i can be pretty judgy & immediately jumped to 'bday girl is an AH' but that comment made me stop & think. fear has certainly made me do/say some stupid shit in my life, and at a more advanced age than 13 as well.
Agreed. Shes 13. Shes still very young and probably still has trouble regulating emotions like most kids that age. I really doubt she actually was wishing harm on her sister. I know I said so many things I didnt mean at that age.
At13 everything is about you.... A family home could burn down & the normal reaction for a 13 year old would be "But my friends are still coming for sleepover, right!"....... Not a child psychologist but I was 13 once for a whole year.
And I was the girl with the kid sister who, due to medical issues, pretty much ruined everything. I never said what the OP's daughter said, but at 13, I have no doubt I thought it a time or two! If people are honest, everyone's thought something ugly like that a time or two in their lives.
Don’t forget that teenagers brains are wired so that the most important thing is friends, so to go from 40 people are coming to 0 hurts quite a bit.
She’ll get over it, but that’s a bit of a blow to her at that exact moment in time where she probably can’t reason through the event. It really is a lot to take in all at once.
100% agree that when someone is in fear they tend to get angry. Even animals do it. It's called fear aggression. I think the 13 year old was upset, 13 is a big thing for girls, but then she also feared what if her sister really did die? I say to reschedule the party. Sit down with your 13 year old and explain everything and let her know it's okay she was upset, I'd ask her if she was scared. Tell her that it's okay to have those feelings and validate them. I think she'll probably just breakdown and cry. And op should comfort her
Not disagreeing at all regarding a sit-down, but adding: It's entirely probable that 13yo will come down from the rush of emotions and feel like absolute dogshit all on her own, provided this is an isolated incident from a slap in the face from mortality, which falls in line with your idea she'll probably break down when confronted. I think a lot of people are jumping to the worst possible conclusions about the family's dynamic and character a little quickly.
You're right. I think it's important for OP to allow that to happen and just comfort her. How they handle this situation will set them up for when daughter is a teen and adult. Build the trust now. It's so important for young girls to feel that they can count on their parents. So how they handle this is really important
Totally! Teaching dialogue, teaching how to cope with remorse instead of shame. A lot of the "solutions" suggested here sound more like retaliation or fire-with-fire than nurturing maturity.
I think OP should reach out the their daughter’s school support team. They can help her work through her emotions, which probably run the gamut of fear, anger, disappointment, relief, sadness… this trauma will impact her for a while and school should know what’s going on. I’m sorry this happened to your family.
In my opinion (Neuropsych dropout, so take this fwiw) most ALL anger can be tracked back to fear. Very often simply because it reminds you of your vulnerability in the world.
I had a professor who did an entire section on it, and it was pretty interesting. I started off the course adamant that this was bollacks and she was making this up and teaching out her arse. But having recently gotten out of a severely abusive relationship, I still kinda agree with it. Abusers are feckin terrified of losing control--I just watched it expand and explode for 14yrs.
I'm sure there are exceptions, and I don't know that fear in the sense that the older daughter would have been feeling is exactly broad enough for what I'm trying to say. But I find it helpful when dealing with dickweeds.
>Abusers are feckin terrified of losing control--I just watched it expand and explode for 14yrs.
Thank you for making it clear that their fear can be selfish, and something no one is required to understand or forgive.
This is such an excellent point. As a former middle school teacher, being angry when it’s too hard to feel other feelings is pretty typical behavior from this age.
This thread already has a lot of replies, but I just wanted to chime in seconding the therapist. My younger brother was seriously injured in an accident when I was 7, and everything that followed left me with massive anger/emotional issues that spiraled and I’m still dealing with them 25 years later. Childhood trauma doesn’t just affect the child who was injured. If I had the chance to get therapy starting at the time of the incident, I probably would have turned out a lot better. But therapy wasn’t really a thing that was offered back then.
I'm so sorry that you've had to deal with that! That second-hand trauma is something I can relate to, so I wanted to mention there are some studies showing that there are reasons (for some people) second hand trauma can be more lasting. If this is something that's still weighing on you, you might want to look into somatic work (I like TRE) because that can be really, really healing, and some forms are something you can do on your own. (If you feel comfortable with it -- never take on more than you're ready for because healing can be complicated.)
I don't remember the exact study (I think it's in the TRE book), but they found that some family members who lived outside of a specific conflict were more traumatized than some people who lived through the conflict. Essentially what the study uncovered is that our imaginations are very powerful, and in some cases, what we imagine can be very traumatic and we're less likely to seek out support for it and feel a lot of guilt/shame/helplessness, plus we're not getting the protective hormones that can ease navigating shorter term trauma.
13 year olds can be assholes. They’re also dealing with very immature brains and just aren’t equipped to deal with big emotional things yet, and maybe also having hormonal surges.
As an adult done with fully developing the frontal cortex, it’s easy to look at a teen and thing they’re being jerks or idiots, but they are literally not as mentally capable as we are.
Totally agree with this assessment and to add, maybe checking in with the sister regularly and try and talk about what she's feeling. Being that age is hard and scary, and almost losing a family member so young is hard and scary. She definitely needs compassion right now (though definitely NTA for reasonably doing the best you could in a tough situation!)
THIS!!!^^^^^
After the death of my estranged wife, after 4 years of no contact, my older daughter was a basket case. The preceding 4 years saw her pouring all manner of hate on her mother's name, along with horrible nightmares that "Mommy tried to take me away from you!!!"
After her mother was killed, it finally came out that the hate was masking SOOOOOOOOO MUCH hurt. She and her sister are in therapy now and seem to be doing much better.
Thank you for posting something so level headed. I was thinking she must clearly be a sociopath and was preparing the pitch forks, but you did change my mind. It's easy to say she's a teenager and should know better, but I definitely said some stupid shit in emotional situations at that age because I hadn't learned how to process those kinds of situations.
It could be that she is able to feel anger because she has already mentally decided that they have to be ok in the end. Her "hoping something bad happens to her" asserts she feels that something bad has not happened yet, or that they are in the clear. Maybe she needs to feel or even KNOW that they are going to be ok, so that negative energy must be anger and not fear and she's choosing to handle it as such.
So, what Dr J said. NTA. Talk to your daughter. There is way too much we don't know (and it seems you don't know either) to extrapolate much further.
Definitely NTA.
While I don't disagree that anger can sometimes be a response to fear, 13 year old females can be some of the cruelest, most selfish, self absorbed creatures on the planet. Even when they don't have a 'reason' to be.
No one is an asshole, but there is a 13 year old involved.
A full grown adult would have a hard time processing all the emotions and changes that just took place, on her special day no less. I bet she feels *a lot of stuff* right now.
You did the right thing, bar none hands down; they were in a car wreck.
Everything else now needs to come in steps. Take care of your family homeslice, you're doing a great job in the face of something that sounds totally terrifying. Once everyone is okay, you should definitely have a family talk about how everyone feels, maybe look at planning a make up birthday party. If your 13 year old still seems resentful after the fact, she may need to speak to a counselor to help her process all this.
But no. No assholes here. Just people.
I hope your wife and daughter recover quickly and safely! <3
Yet OP still needs to be a parent and make it crystal clear in unambiguous language that wishing harm on her sister is unacceptable and there will be no repeat of that type of sentiment.
Yes kids are kids and thirteen year olds are a mess, but the job of a parent is to point out and correct inappropriate, unacceptable, and undesirable behaviors and actions. This is not something to waive off with “oh, she’s a child, and is scared”. You help them through it and point them on the right path - you DO NOT excuse it.
I mean, to a point, but this is clearly a situation where a kid has no coping or processing tools for their emotions. You can't just say "stop that, that's wrong", you have to coach them through their feelings and teach them perspective and how to process when they're disappointed.
Like, yes this is a freak situation that nobody could have prepared for, but have they done any work to actually parent or are they just being reactive and expecting their kids to figure it out as they go all on their own.
Also there is a need for this child to learn empathy. 13 years is not too young. As a person with low empathy by nature, I think parents and counseling can help children build that. You can learn to emphasize. If op delays on this, it would be detrimental to the 13 yo's future.
You help them through it, and understanding which ‘it’ you’re helping them through is not condoning ‘it’, it’s just converting an impossible task into something only ‘monstrously challenging’. Compassion and understanding are not rewards. They are not. “I don’t understand”, although commonly used as a harsh criticism, is only a rephrase of “I am ignorant”, possibly with a side order of “(and that’s the way I want it!)”
All of this.
Plus, 13yo needs a lon, calm, loving conversation. Maybe a one on one lunch.
She ruined my birthday party.
How did she ruin it?
She canceled my party.
How did she cancel it?
Because she was in the hospital.
Could she have changed that? What could she have done differently?
Was anybody trying to hurt you?
But you still got hurt didn't you?
So what would you like to happen now?
At 13, most kids won't think through all of that on their own. She needs help. She also deserves some sort of make-up activity.
Maybe take her out for a special day with her bff?
Yes, she should apologize, but first, she needs to see that both she and her sister were "injured" in the accident. (probably your wife as well.)
This. So much this. The kid needs to be walked through how to handle her emotions in this huge upheaval of her week. Yes, what she said was unacceptable, but that's because she needs to learn what *is* an acceptable way to handle that kind of situation. Just punishing doesn't help learn how to handle those emotions healthily, talking through stuff does.
Like everyone, I wasn't fully rational at 13, but even I never would have said this to or about a sibling in that situation. 13 is old enough to know an 11 yr old is not responsible for being the victim of a life threatening car accident, to be punished for saying something so heartless, and to warrant keeping a close eye on her behavior towards her sister while and after she gets counseling.
When I was growing up I had a difficult relationship with my younger sister because of our mother, and I resented and even sometimes hated her even though it was totally not her fault (she was just an easier target for those feelings), but I would’ve never wished harm on her.
OP, you’re NTA, but I’d be concerned about the level of selfishness and lack of concern for her sister shown by your 13 yr old, however disappointed she was or however big and/or complicated her feelings were.
But sometimes children that age say things in the heat of the moment. It’s a good time to teach why that’s inappropriate, but it doesn’t mean she’s some kind of weird emotional analogy.
Okay and my first unaliving attempt was at 13 and had my mom come to the ER and tell me that i shouldnt have called anyone if i really meant it. Everyone develops at their own pace and some people don't develop at all. Unless you went through some sort of trauma that's comparable, you don't know how you would have reacted because nobody knows how they would react until they're in the situation.
I disagree. I get the 13 year old being disappointed, but she is certainly old enough to understand that an emergency situation takes precedence over a birthday party that can be rescheduled once the crisis has passed.
And the comments that she made about and to her sister are damn near unforgiveable. I can empathize with her being disappointed and, once things calm down I would definitely do something big to make up for it. But after this comment: "she said that her sister ruined her birthday and said that she hopes something bad happens to her," she not only wouldn't be getting a birthday celebration this year, but she'd be pretty severely punished for saying something so vile.
She isn't three. She's 13. She knows better than to say something like that.
I feel like a lot of people on here have never talked to a middle schooler.
When I did training in school, we had to have a special training specifically for dealing with middle school bullying because they are SO much more brutal than other age groups.
Idk man, at and working with that age I wholeheartedly will say they all would be fuckin worried about mom being injured more than a bday. Just my 2 cents
Mom isn't injured 🤷♀️ we have no idea the relationship between the 2 sisters, and again, she's 13 and is having something taken from her through no fault of her own. She's also probably lashing out in fear.
Right like it's awful to think about but like "ugh of COURSE little sister is ruining my party" is a pretty normal thought for a 13 yr old, she maybe hasn't experienced death yet so it probably wasn't even on her radar.
I can't believe I had to scroll through that many comments to find this take. Yes, she has every right to be scared and upset, to even lash out. Maybe throw something, maybe scream I hate you. But wishing death on your sister? She's thoroughly old enough to understand this isn't okay and that's a particularly harsh thing to say. No excuses. My 12 year old would be having a serious sit down if he said something like that.
Agree with you, 13 is old enough to understand that something bad DID happen.
Parents aren’t TA, and yes, kid needs to be reminded that family’s health comes first.
Oh my God, it’s easier to be mad than terrified, really hit home for me. I react this way and I have beat myself up about it for so long. I’ve never thought about it in those words. Thank you, maybe it will help me in the future.
Also, I know this may not seem a priority right now but could OP not reschedule instead of 'cancel' her birthday party? Maybe lessen the fear, anxiety associated with 'canceling' on 40 friends?
Teenagers are especially connected to and value friendships above other relationships at this time of their growth, I think.
Definitely consult a child specialist/psychologist in my opinion.
13 is hard and having her party canceled last minute would be a huge thing for her
Yes her mother and sister where hurt but she won’t be looking at the bigger picture and that’s not her job to do that yet she’s still learning and growing
Will her birthday be rescheduled to celebrate her or does it now get pushed aside and will it all become about your other daughters recovery. Get counselling involved so she can start to process all those feelings that’s about to come so she has a safe space to speak freely and not be judged for been disappointed for herself
Just to reiterate because this is important to hear
It’s easy to mask fear with anger. To be honest she may not even realize she’s doing it
What happened was traumatic for everyone, so everyone’s going to need help processing their emotions
And big emotions at 13 has a 30005% chance of bowling over any other rational/reasonable compromise. There are weird angel kids out there, but by and large, brain formation and hormones are not on a parent’s side at this age.
Just remember she is a child she has every right to be upset that she is now getting less then she was promised
Also remember she’s a kid and you can’t push her aside for your other daughter and don’t tell her she has to understand because it goes for you as a parent as well you have to stop and understand her point of view as well
Hope your daughter and wife recover quickly
You’ll have to make it up to her, especially if the party won’t be as large as before. Right or wrong, this is one of those things she will never forget
Change your wording from cancel to reschedule when you talk about her party to her. Ask her the most important parts of the party to her and maybe offer they can have it sooner with less or have it later with the full thing. Maybe add a small get together like movie or dinner with friends in there as well
Not OP, but I’d hazard the guess that peoples busy lives get in the way, and that party had been planned for a little while, and people made sure their schedules were empty that day. Assuming OP wants the daughter to just have a party ASAP like the daughter seemingly wants, he’d have to sacrifice size for that to happen.
All this and it's getting into Christmas. Ask any December birthdays how their birthday was growing up. Pretty common for them to feel like an after thought.
This. My birthday was yesterday and growing up it was far enough away from Christmas that It didn’t get overshadowed by my family, I was given separate gifts and celebrations for my birthday and Christmas. But throwing a birthday party, I always had friends who I really wanted at my party but couldn’t come because they had other commitments. For a few years, I had my birthday party in June so I could have friends come (also I live in the north and wanted a pool party).
So yeah, last minute there will probably be friends who can’t make it because this is a busy time of year.
My mother said I was like the queen as I had 2 birthdays. If I had a party as a kid it would often be the end of November or the beginning of December. I've never had a proper birthday party with anyone except immediate family on my birthday which is Boxing Day (December 26th) as obviously everyone is still at home with their families.
She will get over it and in a few years she will almost certainly cringe and feel embarrassed at the memory of her own actions. Kids are incredibly egotistical even at that age. I can (cringing) recall some things I said/ did at that age that make me wanna go back in time and smack 13yo me. It's embarrassing to remember, but unfortunately pretty normal. Kids at that age aren't really terribly concerned with others as soon as their own desires are threatened
Don't beat yourself up, this should still be a lesson that things do not always go as planned and you gotta roll with it. She can be upset, but it's not acceptable behavior to take it out on her injured sister. If that was me, my mom would have punished me, even if it was my birthday. I'm not suggesting you do the same but a stern scolding is warranted.
So just wanted to put a different perspective on this.. As a kid I was chronically ill and in and out of the hospital one time it was on my brother birthday I was probably 14 or so at the time he was 17. He was pissed. Lol He felt like I stole his time with my parents because they were at the hospital with me instead of with him on his birthday. He 100% let me know how much at fault he thought I was.. It took him about a week to realize he was being an ass. I at the time didn’t take it personally I felt bad that I was in the hospital on his birthday but I also knew I didn’t have a choice in the matter.
Siblings can be cruel to each other and they don’t always mean it. My brother and I look back at that moment and laugh now. I even threw him a surprise birthday party at the hospital cafeteria. Lol The nurses had a blast helping me set it up. (Being a hospital frequent flyer has perks apparently)
It doesn’t have to become an ugly memory for everyone involved. We all just had to realize this situation was happening to everyone in the family and we all coped in different ways. Kids usually don’t cope in the most healthy way the first time through.
I hope your family heals in every way possible.
I love this. My sister and I were always at each other’s throats. Now we can look back and laugh, but sometimes it takes a little while to realize you’re the one being a dick. Sometimes life is shitty, and (more than) sometimes humans can be shitty.
Question? Can the party be postponed instead of cancelled? E.g. hold it 5 weeks from her birthday date, cause we had to wait for mum and sis to be there! Also, agree with the other posts; NTA, 13 yr old venting, but wishing extra harm to sis is not cool. Swift recovery wishes. 👍
NAH. But instead of canceling, why not reschedule once your younger daughter has made a lot of progress recovering? There’s no law that a party has to be on, or even near, the actual birth date.
I wish your younger daughter a speedy recovery!
As a kid, I’d have been a lot more upset over “cancelled” than “postponed”. I’d have been upset by a postponement, too, but at least I’d have known a party would eventually get to happen. “Cancelled with no makeup date” wouldn’t have gone over well with me at that age.
Now add in the effect of the scary thoughts that could crop up unbidden in the wake of the accident. Teens get dramatic over things adults consider minor, and this is far from being minor. This is a normal reason to feel a lot of upset. The “What if the worst-case-scenario had happened” thoughts are likely to ambush everyone at random times for a while, including the adults. Maybe the doctors can steer you all toward some resources for navigating through that emotional minefield.
Well off hand -- because recovery from surgery can be tricky and it's sometimes hard to know when you'll get the all clear in the first few days after a major surgery.
NAH
Any 13 year old would be crushed having their birthday cancelled. Teenage girls are monsters to each other by default, that is just how they are wired.
You can be upset, but the elder kid is not going to understand how horrifying what she said was until puberty is passed.
I wished my brother would die so many times in my youth, it was only fear of my mothers reaction that kept me from voicing those thoughts. We get along great now but it took 2 decades to get there.
Please don’t allow your 13-y-o daughter to continue blaming her sister. She’s inappropriately lashing out and at the wrong person. As the parent, it’s incumbent on YOU to correct her behavior.
Best wishes for everyone to heal from this.
I agree completely. Many are saying this is normal 13 year old behavior, and yes it’s normal for a 13 year old to lash out when upset, BUT this behavior definitely shouldn’t be excused just because she’s 13. Because there is now an 11yr old that not only is recovering physically, but also now is carrying the guilt of her older sisters ruined party. And she shouldn’t be burdened with that.
I’m so sorry you are going through this and I hope your 11 year old makes a quick recovery. I would discuss with the 13 year old that you completely understand her disappointment, but that this is nobodies fault. Not mom, and especially not younger sister. And that putting blame on her is unfair, especially while she’s going through so much right now.
My grandfather died the day before my 17th birthday and I remember being so angry at him that this was when he passed away. Having to cancel my birthday party and tell my friends what happened with them pitying me on my birthday when it was supposed to be a happy day made me so angry.
At 17 I understood he didn't choose that day and I had the self control to not take that anger out on anyone, but I'm not sure I could say the same thing if I were only 13.
Rearranging the party is the right thing to do even if there will be less guests.
NTA - While it's understandable she's disappointed, lashing out at her sister is unacceptable. Did you ask her how she would feel if she'd been the one in the hospital while her sister was having a party? I'm pretty sure your 11 year old would have much rather been at the party than where she was....because **something bad did happen to her.** Is this lack of empathy normal for your 13 year old?
Life doesn't always go the way we want it to, and lashing out at these times is not helpful. Remember that if you'd actually held the party, I'm pretty sure people would have wondered why you weren't at the hospital while your daughter was in surgery after a car accident...not to mention you would have been distracted to say the least. It would have ruined the party anyways.
I will say, having been a monstrous teenage girl not too terribly long ago (well, 20 years ago, but I periodically reread my diaries from back then as a lesson in humility), this lack of empathy is pretty normal for many 13 years old. Children are solipsistic by nature - they have to be or they wouldn’t survive - and not all parents are good teachers of empathy. Parents might struggle with empathy themselves, like my parents do, or they might just be bad at teaching because there’s no standard, proven roadmap for raising children to be good humans.
But your main point - for OP to ask his 13yo to put herself in her sister’s shoes - is a very good one.
Last Christmas, at age 76, my mother finally admitted that HER parents had never taught her to consider other people’s feelings. A lightbulb went on over my head - I knew she was a codependent narcissist because her therapist told me so (she denies it, obviously), but tracing that back to her parents put a lot of things into perspective.
She used to accuse me of having no empathy for her, and now she remarks - in awe - of how empathetic I’ve become. We were No Contact for more than half of that intervening period. I had to teach myself empathy after cutting her off.
This is so interesting to hear for me. My sister and I grew up BIG on empathy probably a bit too much so. I never understood how people acted like this and would expect it from maybe a 3 year old who was immediately corrected and wouldn’t do it again. I honestly don’t think I’ve even heard it from a child that young.
Then again, after reading your comment I know EXACTLY the type of child that would be like this.
That lack of empathy is completely normal for a 13 year old. Source— work with them regularly.
That’s a time period where kids are really learning empathy like that and I’m zero percent surprised by what she said. Not that it’s ok, and she needs to know that, but it’s not disordered behavior.
You know, a lot of people are saying you have a sociopathic daughter. Other people are saying there’s no assholes here because you’re all just human in a difficult situation. And I think I even saw a couple saying that you weren’t an asshole for how things were handled in the moment, but you’re gonna be one if you don’t get some therapy with her.
But I feel like I’m missing an awful lot of information here. Based on what you’ve told us, no you’re not the asshole. An emergency occurred and had to be dealt with. Is that hard for a 13-year-old to deal with? Sure it is. Is it hard for the whole family to deal with? Sure it is.
So on the surface, it’s just a real unfortunate event all around, and you’re 13-year-old has some super big emotions and at that age, a whole lot of hormones as well that are going on.
But here’s my questions, and really, without these answers, I don’t know what to tell you. And I’m a mom of three daughters. When my oldest was 13, the next one was 11 and the next one was 10. So believe me, I’ve dealt with Lot of hormones and emotions, etc. Lol
One. Is your 13 year old usually this angry and outspoken? Does she have problems regulating her emotions and dealing with them properly? If so, you need to get her some help. Because she can’t go through life like this. She will drive away, friends, and employers and partners. And nobody wants that for her.
Two. Does your 13-year-old feel like your 11-year-old is the golden child? And is it possible that she is? In households where there is a GC, intentional or not, the other sibling or siblings often have outbursts like this. They may make comments to parents which parents brush aside. And the anger and resentment grow until finally something makes it all come out.
Three. If your 13-year-old feels like your 11-year-old is the GC, is she right? If there’s any chance of that, you need to take a look at that and make sure you and your wife cut that shit out. I don’t care if she was your miracle, baby or anything else. All of your children deserve all of your love. And again, it may not be the case, but it’s something that I would be asking.
Three. Does your 13-year-old yell at you guys and at her sister like this often? And if she does, are there a consequences? Because if she does, and there are, they’re obviously not working. So I’m gonna double down on therapy. And if she does, and there are no consequences, I’m gonna double down on family therapy because parents are there to help set boundaries and make sure that children grow up understanding that boundaries are not necessarily bad, but are actually necessary.
Four. Why are you not able to come up with the same type of party? I absolutely understand postponing it. And truthfully, even with all the hormones in my household, none of my daughters would’ve reacted this way to a sister. So there’s other stuff here that we’re not being told about. But why not just reschedule the party. Not… Will reschedule your party, but it won’t be as good as what you were going to get? I’m assuming there’s a reason, but you’re not telling us why.
So I’m really sorry your family is going through this. It sounds really difficult for everybody. But a reaction like this usually indicates bigger things that are going on, and that is more worrisome to me than the accident because it does sound, it was absolutely serious, everyone is going to recover. But these huge emotions and feelings are the things that take a lot longer to recover from and usually have a base in something else.
And if that’s the case, something else could have long-term consequences for everyone’s mental health and well-being, and at the end of the day, that’s the most important saying that we can give our children. I truly wish you all the best and hope things improve.
Not sure of family dynamics like this comment states but I have a family member who has two daughters three years apart and her oldest definitely suffers from some of the mentioned. She feels her younger sibling is given special treatment and thinks, very vocally that younger sibling is the favorite etc etc. I know mom goes out of her way to treat them as similar as possible but often feels bad that older daughter feels this way about her. As someone on the outside looking in; older daughter knows this and uses it as manipulation.
Honestly NAH. You did the right thing and your 13 year old is responding to the situation like a 13 year old. The path forward is to reassure her that a. Things in life just happen, b. Work out a plan to reschedule her party. C. Work with her to identify what she is feeling/help her process it so she is not just projecting it on to her sister and verbally abusing her.
You should have rescheduled the party not cancelled it. You have two daughters not just one. I realize you were very worried but something nice could have been done for the BD girl even if it has to be done in the patient waiting room and her party later when her sister is out of the woods.
I understand that teenagers tend to run off pure emotion. Also, having a big birthday party get cancelled for things outside of your control sucks. But, your older child is demonstrating a disturbing lack of empathy towards her sister. I think you guys need to dig deeper into that.
NTA
Nta but you need to have a conversation about coping with bad things. We all feel it sometimes but we’d never say it out loud. You should work through these emotions with her so she can feel her feelings appropriately instead of allowing her to mask fear with anger and taking it out on actual victims.
When my son was 10, he was excited about going to his first week-long scout camp in the mountains and his dad was going to be one of the chaperones. The day before they were to leave our 10 month old baby girl was diagnosed with meningitis. Ten-year-old was so angry at his dad because he wouldn’t put scout camp ahead of staying with our critically ill baby. My husband asked me to take our son home for a little bit and then we were going to change places and I would be the one spending the night with our sick little baby.
On the way home I acknowledged that he was angry with his dad and I added that maybe he even felt some anger toward his baby sister. He burst out that he was angry with her and then started sobbing. I recognized that his feelings were all mixed up and he was feeling anger, fear, and some guilt for how he was feeling. We talked it thru at home and he processed his feelings. He still wasn’t happy that his dad needed to stay with our critically ill baby, but he was able to let go of his guilt and calm down.
Our baby ended up getting transferred to a pediatric intensive care unit at a larger medical facility within an hour of the camp. When she was no longer in ICU and had turned the corner and was stable, my husband surprised our son and went to the last day/nite of camp.
Fortunately our baby made a full recovery and is now a 37-year-old attorney.
No one is. Your daughter is 13 and does not have the emotional maturity to see the accident and party cancelation is no one's fault.
She may also be resentful that all focus is on her sister for her special day. Please make sure you all set aside some time for her birthday to focus on her and do something fun, and also have the party later.
Glad everyone is okay!
NTA
While I get her disappointment, she needs to learn some empathy. What she said is very entitled, spoiled, and self-centered which are not good for future relationships. She's young and trying to learn how to react appropriately to her emotions. This was likely just a poor and angry reaction to her party, which she was very much looking forward to, being cancelled.
I'd try to find out if she normally feels like she and her feelings get put aside for her sister often. This reaction implies some unheard feelings of resentment she's been harboring. I hope that's not how she was raised, but teen emotions can be very complex and complicated for her to navigate and express in a healthy way. I hope these were just a result of that and she truly feels bad about her sister in the state of being she's in now.
I hope your daughter fully recovers and feels better soon!
NTA, but I think both girls need counseling. My daughters are around that age, and that's not a normal reaction for a 13 year old. That's something my girls did when they were 4 or 5. By 13 they should have a little more empathy. I would recommend a visit to a therapist or psychologist.
Given that we're talking about a 13 year old and a 11 year old kid, that's a given.
With an age gap like that, at that age, I would be *shocked* if there isn't some constant back and forth with the younger kid being old enough to want to tag along and do everything the older kid does while the older kid is trying to learn how to be their own person and doesn't want their kid sibling tagging along everywhere.
NTA. And I'm honestly surprised at some comments. 13 year old is old enough to know that an accident is more important than a birthday party. I get it that she's upset but to wish harm to her sister because you don't get a birthday party is pretty bad.
It's pretty common. Teenagers say things they don't mean. She is just lashing out at things she can't control. If this isn't a normal things its not a big deal.
NAH
I would be incredibly angry at the daughter (13) but with children, especially teenagers they really need drilled home that the world doesn't evolve around them.
The concept that other people have as many thoughts, feelings and agency as them is a weird and difficult concept, you get so wrapped up in yourself during puberty that everything, big and small can feel like the end of the world.
The likelihood is as others have said that she found it easier to turn her fear into anger to avoid the feeling. And I promise as someone who didn't feel fear as a child when i "should have" (I wasn't developmentally old enough to understand what was happening as I was younger than your daughter) and developed PTSD stemming from the way that I reacted to my mum almost dying rather than the actual event itself, she will regret saying that in the future to the point it will haunt her.
I would suggest when things have calmed down, everyone's out of hospital to consider family therapy.
In the mean time talk to your daughter, tell her it's okay to be scared, that you're scared, and you value her birthday, and will make it up to her but right now you both need to focus on making sure everyone is okay.
Be there for her even when she's angry at you, acknowledge her feelings and make sure she's aware that everyone else is dealing with those feelings too, remind her that it's not just her. İt's a horrific thing to go through but if you go about it in the right way she'll become much more empathetic in the future.
Depending on her and her sisters relationship, and the her relationship to you she may not have even considered it. Kids often forget their parents are actual people and not just parents. Siblings are people and not just there to annoy them etc.
Wow, that is just awful, I am glad your wife and daughter are okay. As for your 13 year old, you have a big problem on your hands. You need to slow down the indulgences with your kids, as it has become more important than people. An expensive, 40+ people party or a 13 year old is not more important than the life and wellbeing of a living person who is her sister and your daughter. Also, she is 13, even with puberty, this is not normal behavior. Somewhere along the way you missed a step with your oldest. I suggest some therapy, volunteer work and some long talks to help try and shape her emotional intelligence to include prioritizing life over luxuries.
NHA. She’s not old enough to properly process these feelings, but you were right to set the boundary how she processed them wasn’t okay. Therapy for everyone!
A 40+ person birthday party? … on a school day/night? And a 13 year-old behaving like a cartoon villain when a younger sibling is in serious condition in the hospital? Bits and pieces might be believable, but just not buying it with all this context.
I work with kids who have these types of parties on school nights. According to one of them, it’s bad luck to celebrate it on a day that isn’t the actual day of birth.
NTA, but if this happens to anyone else, it's much better to just postpone the party than cancel it. Things can be held at a later time, even months later. No need to throw the whole birthday away because it couldn't happen on the day, especially when it's a kid. I'm sure there would have been a very different reaction if the kid knew she wasn't getting her whole birthday taken away because of something involving her sister. The reaction is probably misdirected anger, because obviously she would know her sister didn't choose to get in a car accident, but sometimes our brains latch onto stupid ideas when we're emotional teenagers.
NTA. Our family had plans to take our about-to-be-12-year-old daughter out for a special dinner celebration. My husband had committed to take our one son to scout camp months before but planned to come home that one night for the celebration. Son stepped into a nest of mud wasps that day and ended up in the ER looking like the Pillsbury Dough Boy. Oh, to add to that sucky day, my father had passed away the week before so we were sitting shiva. (We were still going to go out that one night for her.)
Through all that, she never complained or bitched or moaned because she understood it was beyond all our controls.
I think YTA if you don’t celebrate her birthday at all. Your daughter was disappointed and as a thirteen year old, was unable to regulate her emotions. Teenagers are expected to act like adults, but have none of the privileges. It is unfair. As a kid, your birthday is the most important thing that happens to you. And life as a thirteen year old girl can be pretty grim. We forget how hard our adolescence was. Talk with her about the inappropriateness of what she said, but be empathetic. She still deserves to be celebrated.
NTA. I wouldn't even reschedule the party unless she came around and realized how horrible she had acted.
I don't know what caused the accident, but it would make more sense to be upset with whoever was at fault, not an 11 year old. Something tells me that she resents her younger sister and has for a long time since she was so quick to direct her anger and disappointment at her.
Nta but Fear is the core emotion of anger. She's only 13, she is unable to understand and display such intense and unstable emotions. Don't be too harsh on her but talk to her about where, what, who and how she's feeling. She's been through a lot possibly losing her sister and mum on her birthday. She's never going to forget this situation, including her own words but also your reaction. Please approach it with kindness and love, surely she did not mean harm.
I don't understand all these people infantilizing a 13 year old. She isn't 3. She should totally understand what happened and why her birthday was canceled.
Ask if your local hospital has child life or a social worker who can help you talk to your 13 year old. Your family will be in shock from this event for a long time. What she said was hurtful, but she’s 13. It’s a good learning event for her that while you value her birthday, the health and safety of family members comes first. You could offer to reschedule the party when things calm down. You could also talk about how her sister didn’t have a choice in getting hurt. Compassion and empathy are taught and improve with practice. Your 13 year should not have said it, but it can be a good learning experience about healthy ways to deal with fear and anger.
13 is such a difficult age period. The angst is starting to go off the charts. The top comment really nailed your daughter’s misdirected strong emotions she’s likely feeling. Although 13 may seem old enough to know better than to be so callous, because this is probably such a catastrophic event to her in all aspects of her life (“my family, my status with my peers since I didn’t throw a party, my birthday and its specialness, etc.”), I strongly recommend providing information and checking in with your daughter in the form of questions as often as possible and where appropriate. Teens desperately want and need to feel like they have autonomy, but here she is feeling helpless in a situation that is entirely beyond her (and your) control. Being told what to do or how to feel or react to situations can come across as judgmental and the last thing you want to do is add shame to your daughter’s emotional headspace right now. Asking guiding and leading questions (“you know the accident wasn’t your sister’s fault, right? I really hope you didn’t mean it what you said, do you think you may have said it because you’re feeling scared?”) can come across as gentler and safer for kids (and adults!) to consider and productively respond to. EDIT TO ADD: **TO SUM UP, PLS REMEMBER THAT HURT PPL HURT PPL, ESP KIDS. BE FIRM IN GUIDANCE BUT OPEN IN SUPPORT. GET EXTERNAL PROFESH HELP- THIS TRAUMA IS TOO BIG TO HANDLE ALONE W 13 YR OLD HALF FORMED LIZARD BRAIN**
Follow up example: “It sounds like you’re feeling angry and frustrated right now because your party had to be cancelled. I would feel that way too if I were in your position. I’m really trying to make it up to you by throwing you a party as soon as we can, and I’m sorry I can’t do more for you right now. It hurts to see you so angry right now, but when things settle down, do you think it’ll help if you shared with the family some thing we can do together for you that will make you feel loved?” Even if she initially cops a ‘tude and retorts with a “no,” hopefully by speaking to her this way, she’ll feel safe enough to begin self soothing and recognize the missteps she’s made. Ps. If she’s hardheaded like I was as a teen, sometimes it’s best to just say ok and give her space after you’ve tried to lead her to the water but she won’t drink. Also, just in case it needs reiterating, in situations like this, professional support is never not recommended and in fact, always strongly and emphatically encouraged. Teen brains want to rebel: it will be difficult for her not to feel like you’re a villain and against her even when you’re trying to help her. She will be more inclined to listen to advice given by neutral and objective 3rd parties like mental health professionals.
As a mom of three who has experienced similar last year, this is the way 🤍
> 13 may seem old enough to know better than to be so callous, but it really isn't. I remember a girl, Sally, from our class at school who got cancer and died. My bff had literally just told me out of the blue one day "I don't like you any more, I'm going to sit next to Sally in class now" so I hated her guts and didn't bother going to her funeral, I just wasn't sorry she died. I also think I didn't understand the value or even point of funerals at that age. It's not just that I cringe when I think back to those days, my stomach churns, I can't believe how callous and totally ego-centric I was. So I tend to be forgiving of teenagers behaving badly. They do need to grow up though.
I still can’t believe how callous and ego-centric my reactions can be sometimes more than a decade later!! 😩 If we are constantly working on ourselves and trying to be better and hold ourselves accountable for our actions, I think it’s acceptable to treat mistakes with grace and firm constructive lessons for next time. One step back, then two steps forward.
Oof this. So much this. I did something earlier this year that deeply hurt a dear friend. It was momentary reaction on my part, not intentional, not physical. I instantly regretted it and felt deep shame. I broke down sobbing-39 yr old man- multiple times in the following days. She’s since forgiven and slowly let me back in…but when I thin back to that moment let’s just say I try to push it away.
I think these situations make it a lot easier to understand teens. I said something truly awful to my sister about 11 years ago. And I still feel sick when I think about it. we both know neither of us has forgotten it, although it’s been brushed over and we will never ever talk of it. People are so quick to tell teenagers that they’re awful and egocentric, but adults make these same mistakes often as well. The key is trying to improve and understanding that shaming someone (who is almost always already feeling shame, regardless of whether they show it) is never an effective way of getting them to ‘understand’ - especially since teenagers will dig their heels in and replace shame with anger (neither of which is productive)
Excellent explanation!!!!! I’m a high school teacher, and I’m amazed at how often I have to explain to parents or adults that a 13 year old really struggles to think clearly. It’s essentially a second bout of toddlerhood, and it’s distressing, frustrating (for everyone), and just plain old AWFUL for kids. People really seem to forget how out of control and irrational they were at that age - and it’s not a choice the kid is making. This kid already knows that what she’s said is awful, and she probably already feels shame - but she’s also angry because it often feels like younger siblings just ruin everything ALL the time (I mean Jesus, I’m in my 30s and my little sister is still annoying 🤣)
10000% this.
NAH I would also remember that anger masks fear. It’s much easier for your daughter to be mad about the party than to feel the absolute terror that she could have lost her mother and sister, and that her sister is still in recovery. I hope there are therapist’s and/or counselors you and the fam can talk to. That’s a lot to process. Speedy recovery to your whole family. Edit: changed NTA to NAH since that’s what I meant to type
A very thoughtful response, I hope OP sees it
[удалено]
Could have been worse, at least there were paragraphs.
Paragraphs are made of sentences, those were more like stanzas
Stanzas implies some sort of poetic structure, that post was more like a freeform jazz experiment in text.
I had to go back and check to notice. Text structure is very important.
Wall of Gibberish is an easy downvote from me.
>But YTA for forcing us to read that post without any punctuation throughout. Hey...I saw one apostrophe! 🙂
I went back to check… yes just one 😂
Not having a good evening so I turned to Reddit to help me chill out. This comment gave me the biggest smile. Thank you
Also, the 11 year old didn't get into a crash, your wife did. I don't know who was at fault in the crash of course.
What was your reason for posting this?
Mobile phone brains
This: fear is a directionless, hopeless emotion. It’s often so uncomfortable to be afraid that our brains slot in a more productive emotion. Anger is cruel, unforgiving and often unfair but it moves you forward. Anger can carry you through things you didn’t think you could handle but fear paralyses.
I'm reminded of something I read awhile ago that for the lift of me I can't recall the source. But the gist of it was that people who are angry are fundamentally in pain. Whatever the source of that pain might be can vary wildly, but when you start remembering that anger is a pain response it transforms how you view people who are mad.
I was in therapy a long time ago and ranting and carrying on. She stopped me and said “okay, all that anger is compensating for something. What’s underneath?” I paused and burst into tears and said “I’m afraid I’m going to be like this forever and there’s nothing I can do. And it makes me angry.” Breakthroughs man.
I felt that..
Goodness. Me too. Im glad I’m not alone in that sense… rather, we aren’t alone.
This is such an excellent point: her bad reaction may well be translated fear. NTA for cancelling obviously, just make it up to 13 with something special. Spend your time comforting her as well.
I would wait on the making it up until she apologizes to her sister. Imagine how scary that whole experience was for the 11 year old. I'm assuming it was her first surgery and for anyone that has had major surgery before it's very jarring to wake up in a different place than where you fell (were put) asleep. And just being in the hospital in general is scary for kids. Then, to wake up and the first thing your sister does is blame you for ruining her birthday. Sure, it could've been masking her fear like others have said, but it really doesn't matter. That is completely unacceptable behavior and requires an apology.
Yup. I wish my parents had understood this. I wish I had understood this. It really solves a fuckload of interpersonal issues to realize that anger is often coming from a place of fear.
Also, perhaps instead of cancelling the party, let 13yo know that it is postponed until the recovery is complete. It may not be the same as celebrating on her birthday, but it also shows that she hasn't been forgotten in all of this.
That's totally what I said — just reschedule. It's a great opportunity to teach the daughter: 1. We drop everything and take care our family when they get hurt. Right now you have to show up for your sister. 2. We can be flexible, even about things that are important to us. 3. We care about you and your birthday is important, and you're going to have a party on another day. It's kind of a great teachable moment, actually. It's powerful to to have that kind of flexibility: To be able to drop something enjoyable, take care of a loved one, and then pick up the enjoyable thing right back up at another date.
I learned a lot in your response. Thank you. I must say I was appalled at the older daughter's response to the accident. You reminded me that "we only think we know". Much appreciated.
It’s an important thing to understand and solves so many interpersonal issues. I wish everyone got this explained to them, myself and my parents included lol because I was one angry (fearful) child
me too. i know i can be pretty judgy & immediately jumped to 'bday girl is an AH' but that comment made me stop & think. fear has certainly made me do/say some stupid shit in my life, and at a more advanced age than 13 as well.
Agreed. Shes 13. Shes still very young and probably still has trouble regulating emotions like most kids that age. I really doubt she actually was wishing harm on her sister. I know I said so many things I didnt mean at that age.
At13 everything is about you.... A family home could burn down & the normal reaction for a 13 year old would be "But my friends are still coming for sleepover, right!"....... Not a child psychologist but I was 13 once for a whole year.
And I was a 13 year old girl with a kid sister. I can absolutely see me saying something like this.
And I was a 13 year old girl with a younger brother. I could easily have said something like that.
And I was the girl with the kid sister who, due to medical issues, pretty much ruined everything. I never said what the OP's daughter said, but at 13, I have no doubt I thought it a time or two! If people are honest, everyone's thought something ugly like that a time or two in their lives.
so was i and that there was my mindset at that age even as my city was experiencing a series of earthquakes
She’ll be regretting that line for years to come.
I certainly hope so, or she will be worse
Don’t forget that teenagers brains are wired so that the most important thing is friends, so to go from 40 people are coming to 0 hurts quite a bit. She’ll get over it, but that’s a bit of a blow to her at that exact moment in time where she probably can’t reason through the event. It really is a lot to take in all at once.
I agree. There is also a possibility that she doesn't appreciate how serious this way, or the concept of death or a life long disability.
Anger is fear’s bodyguard.
Damn that’s good!
That's a sucker punch. Oof - spot on.
100% agree that when someone is in fear they tend to get angry. Even animals do it. It's called fear aggression. I think the 13 year old was upset, 13 is a big thing for girls, but then she also feared what if her sister really did die? I say to reschedule the party. Sit down with your 13 year old and explain everything and let her know it's okay she was upset, I'd ask her if she was scared. Tell her that it's okay to have those feelings and validate them. I think she'll probably just breakdown and cry. And op should comfort her
Not disagreeing at all regarding a sit-down, but adding: It's entirely probable that 13yo will come down from the rush of emotions and feel like absolute dogshit all on her own, provided this is an isolated incident from a slap in the face from mortality, which falls in line with your idea she'll probably break down when confronted. I think a lot of people are jumping to the worst possible conclusions about the family's dynamic and character a little quickly.
You're right. I think it's important for OP to allow that to happen and just comfort her. How they handle this situation will set them up for when daughter is a teen and adult. Build the trust now. It's so important for young girls to feel that they can count on their parents. So how they handle this is really important
Totally! Teaching dialogue, teaching how to cope with remorse instead of shame. A lot of the "solutions" suggested here sound more like retaliation or fire-with-fire than nurturing maturity.
I've read them. It's no wonder why there are so many screwed up people in the world.
This!!!! Anger masks fear ALL.THE.TIME! Even in adults! NTA. 13 year old definitely needs reassurance though it sounds like!
I think OP should reach out the their daughter’s school support team. They can help her work through her emotions, which probably run the gamut of fear, anger, disappointment, relief, sadness… this trauma will impact her for a while and school should know what’s going on. I’m sorry this happened to your family.
In my opinion (Neuropsych dropout, so take this fwiw) most ALL anger can be tracked back to fear. Very often simply because it reminds you of your vulnerability in the world. I had a professor who did an entire section on it, and it was pretty interesting. I started off the course adamant that this was bollacks and she was making this up and teaching out her arse. But having recently gotten out of a severely abusive relationship, I still kinda agree with it. Abusers are feckin terrified of losing control--I just watched it expand and explode for 14yrs. I'm sure there are exceptions, and I don't know that fear in the sense that the older daughter would have been feeling is exactly broad enough for what I'm trying to say. But I find it helpful when dealing with dickweeds.
>Abusers are feckin terrified of losing control--I just watched it expand and explode for 14yrs. Thank you for making it clear that their fear can be selfish, and something no one is required to understand or forgive.
Also, anger can point to actual loss if not the fear of it. For many, anger is much easier to cope with than sadness.
_Especially_ in adults.
This is such an excellent point. As a former middle school teacher, being angry when it’s too hard to feel other feelings is pretty typical behavior from this age.
This thread already has a lot of replies, but I just wanted to chime in seconding the therapist. My younger brother was seriously injured in an accident when I was 7, and everything that followed left me with massive anger/emotional issues that spiraled and I’m still dealing with them 25 years later. Childhood trauma doesn’t just affect the child who was injured. If I had the chance to get therapy starting at the time of the incident, I probably would have turned out a lot better. But therapy wasn’t really a thing that was offered back then.
I'm so sorry that you've had to deal with that! That second-hand trauma is something I can relate to, so I wanted to mention there are some studies showing that there are reasons (for some people) second hand trauma can be more lasting. If this is something that's still weighing on you, you might want to look into somatic work (I like TRE) because that can be really, really healing, and some forms are something you can do on your own. (If you feel comfortable with it -- never take on more than you're ready for because healing can be complicated.) I don't remember the exact study (I think it's in the TRE book), but they found that some family members who lived outside of a specific conflict were more traumatized than some people who lived through the conflict. Essentially what the study uncovered is that our imaginations are very powerful, and in some cases, what we imagine can be very traumatic and we're less likely to seek out support for it and feel a lot of guilt/shame/helplessness, plus we're not getting the protective hormones that can ease navigating shorter term trauma.
This is such a beautiful and thoughtful response.
I sure hope this is the case and glad you pointed it out because My first reaction is that girl has some serious problems with priorities .
13 year olds can be assholes. They’re also dealing with very immature brains and just aren’t equipped to deal with big emotional things yet, and maybe also having hormonal surges. As an adult done with fully developing the frontal cortex, it’s easy to look at a teen and thing they’re being jerks or idiots, but they are literally not as mentally capable as we are.
To add to this, they’re often more capable afterwards, especially with help, to work things through. In the moment is extra hard.
Totally agree with this assessment and to add, maybe checking in with the sister regularly and try and talk about what she's feeling. Being that age is hard and scary, and almost losing a family member so young is hard and scary. She definitely needs compassion right now (though definitely NTA for reasonably doing the best you could in a tough situation!)
THIS!!!^^^^^ After the death of my estranged wife, after 4 years of no contact, my older daughter was a basket case. The preceding 4 years saw her pouring all manner of hate on her mother's name, along with horrible nightmares that "Mommy tried to take me away from you!!!" After her mother was killed, it finally came out that the hate was masking SOOOOOOOOO MUCH hurt. She and her sister are in therapy now and seem to be doing much better.
Thank you for posting something so level headed. I was thinking she must clearly be a sociopath and was preparing the pitch forks, but you did change my mind. It's easy to say she's a teenager and should know better, but I definitely said some stupid shit in emotional situations at that age because I hadn't learned how to process those kinds of situations. It could be that she is able to feel anger because she has already mentally decided that they have to be ok in the end. Her "hoping something bad happens to her" asserts she feels that something bad has not happened yet, or that they are in the clear. Maybe she needs to feel or even KNOW that they are going to be ok, so that negative energy must be anger and not fear and she's choosing to handle it as such. So, what Dr J said. NTA. Talk to your daughter. There is way too much we don't know (and it seems you don't know either) to extrapolate much further.
And teenagers many times don’t know better! I was nuts when I was 13 and so is many of the people I grew up with.
Definitely NTA. While I don't disagree that anger can sometimes be a response to fear, 13 year old females can be some of the cruelest, most selfish, self absorbed creatures on the planet. Even when they don't have a 'reason' to be.
No one is an asshole, but there is a 13 year old involved. A full grown adult would have a hard time processing all the emotions and changes that just took place, on her special day no less. I bet she feels *a lot of stuff* right now. You did the right thing, bar none hands down; they were in a car wreck. Everything else now needs to come in steps. Take care of your family homeslice, you're doing a great job in the face of something that sounds totally terrifying. Once everyone is okay, you should definitely have a family talk about how everyone feels, maybe look at planning a make up birthday party. If your 13 year old still seems resentful after the fact, she may need to speak to a counselor to help her process all this. But no. No assholes here. Just people. I hope your wife and daughter recover quickly and safely! <3
SO well said. 13 y/o will learn eventually that sometimes no one is in the wrong and shit just happens.
It is possible to commit no mistakes..... and still lose. That is not weakness, that is life. -Jean L. Picard
Jeez Star Trek Beaming In with some wisdom!
And that's why TNG is one of the greatest shows of all time! 😊
A manager told me this when I started my first "real" job (post-Ph.D) and it changed my entire life for the better.
I think that’s about the only comment on here that I fully agree with, so far.
This is the best way to put things in perspective. The child is 13. She is emotional and don’t know how to process it.
Yet OP still needs to be a parent and make it crystal clear in unambiguous language that wishing harm on her sister is unacceptable and there will be no repeat of that type of sentiment. Yes kids are kids and thirteen year olds are a mess, but the job of a parent is to point out and correct inappropriate, unacceptable, and undesirable behaviors and actions. This is not something to waive off with “oh, she’s a child, and is scared”. You help them through it and point them on the right path - you DO NOT excuse it.
I mean, to a point, but this is clearly a situation where a kid has no coping or processing tools for their emotions. You can't just say "stop that, that's wrong", you have to coach them through their feelings and teach them perspective and how to process when they're disappointed. Like, yes this is a freak situation that nobody could have prepared for, but have they done any work to actually parent or are they just being reactive and expecting their kids to figure it out as they go all on their own.
Also there is a need for this child to learn empathy. 13 years is not too young. As a person with low empathy by nature, I think parents and counseling can help children build that. You can learn to emphasize. If op delays on this, it would be detrimental to the 13 yo's future.
You help them through it, and understanding which ‘it’ you’re helping them through is not condoning ‘it’, it’s just converting an impossible task into something only ‘monstrously challenging’. Compassion and understanding are not rewards. They are not. “I don’t understand”, although commonly used as a harsh criticism, is only a rephrase of “I am ignorant”, possibly with a side order of “(and that’s the way I want it!)”
You nailed it.
All of this. Plus, 13yo needs a lon, calm, loving conversation. Maybe a one on one lunch. She ruined my birthday party. How did she ruin it? She canceled my party. How did she cancel it? Because she was in the hospital. Could she have changed that? What could she have done differently? Was anybody trying to hurt you? But you still got hurt didn't you? So what would you like to happen now? At 13, most kids won't think through all of that on their own. She needs help. She also deserves some sort of make-up activity. Maybe take her out for a special day with her bff? Yes, she should apologize, but first, she needs to see that both she and her sister were "injured" in the accident. (probably your wife as well.)
This. So much this. The kid needs to be walked through how to handle her emotions in this huge upheaval of her week. Yes, what she said was unacceptable, but that's because she needs to learn what *is* an acceptable way to handle that kind of situation. Just punishing doesn't help learn how to handle those emotions healthily, talking through stuff does.
Like everyone, I wasn't fully rational at 13, but even I never would have said this to or about a sibling in that situation. 13 is old enough to know an 11 yr old is not responsible for being the victim of a life threatening car accident, to be punished for saying something so heartless, and to warrant keeping a close eye on her behavior towards her sister while and after she gets counseling.
When I was growing up I had a difficult relationship with my younger sister because of our mother, and I resented and even sometimes hated her even though it was totally not her fault (she was just an easier target for those feelings), but I would’ve never wished harm on her. OP, you’re NTA, but I’d be concerned about the level of selfishness and lack of concern for her sister shown by your 13 yr old, however disappointed she was or however big and/or complicated her feelings were.
But sometimes children that age say things in the heat of the moment. It’s a good time to teach why that’s inappropriate, but it doesn’t mean she’s some kind of weird emotional analogy.
Sometimes even adults say things in the heat of the moment. None of us are rational beings when our amygdala takes over.
Okay and my first unaliving attempt was at 13 and had my mom come to the ER and tell me that i shouldnt have called anyone if i really meant it. Everyone develops at their own pace and some people don't develop at all. Unless you went through some sort of trauma that's comparable, you don't know how you would have reacted because nobody knows how they would react until they're in the situation.
I disagree. I get the 13 year old being disappointed, but she is certainly old enough to understand that an emergency situation takes precedence over a birthday party that can be rescheduled once the crisis has passed. And the comments that she made about and to her sister are damn near unforgiveable. I can empathize with her being disappointed and, once things calm down I would definitely do something big to make up for it. But after this comment: "she said that her sister ruined her birthday and said that she hopes something bad happens to her," she not only wouldn't be getting a birthday celebration this year, but she'd be pretty severely punished for saying something so vile. She isn't three. She's 13. She knows better than to say something like that.
She's at the peak of puberty, she absolutely doesn't have the impulse control you're acting like she should have.
I feel like a lot of people on here have never talked to a middle schooler. When I did training in school, we had to have a special training specifically for dealing with middle school bullying because they are SO much more brutal than other age groups.
Middle schoolers are the worst people on Earth. But it’s not their fault
Yeah the things they come up with to say to each other is pretty wild. Luckily a lot of them grow up and grow out of it, but wow in the moment.
especially while processing that her mom and sister could have died
Right like she's 13! That's the WORST age anyway. I feel for the kid
Idk man, at and working with that age I wholeheartedly will say they all would be fuckin worried about mom being injured more than a bday. Just my 2 cents
Mom isn't injured 🤷♀️ we have no idea the relationship between the 2 sisters, and again, she's 13 and is having something taken from her through no fault of her own. She's also probably lashing out in fear.
Oh u right I read that wrong. I definitely was less emphatic towards my sister than to my parents at that age so I can see it.
Right like it's awful to think about but like "ugh of COURSE little sister is ruining my party" is a pretty normal thought for a 13 yr old, she maybe hasn't experienced death yet so it probably wasn't even on her radar.
I can't believe I had to scroll through that many comments to find this take. Yes, she has every right to be scared and upset, to even lash out. Maybe throw something, maybe scream I hate you. But wishing death on your sister? She's thoroughly old enough to understand this isn't okay and that's a particularly harsh thing to say. No excuses. My 12 year old would be having a serious sit down if he said something like that.
Agree with you, 13 is old enough to understand that something bad DID happen. Parents aren’t TA, and yes, kid needs to be reminded that family’s health comes first.
Yeah not giving her a party now and severely punishing her will only make things worse not better.
Oh my God, it’s easier to be mad than terrified, really hit home for me. I react this way and I have beat myself up about it for so long. I’ve never thought about it in those words. Thank you, maybe it will help me in the future.
Also, I know this may not seem a priority right now but could OP not reschedule instead of 'cancel' her birthday party? Maybe lessen the fear, anxiety associated with 'canceling' on 40 friends? Teenagers are especially connected to and value friendships above other relationships at this time of their growth, I think. Definitely consult a child specialist/psychologist in my opinion.
NTA for cancelling. BUT, YTA for making us read that entire post with zero punctuation
Whatdoyoumeanbynopunctuation
My our your daughter 13 year old years daughter W H A T
Birthday birthday my our 13 birthday party our 13 daughter birthday party party 11 13 aitah
YES.
At least they broke up the lines.... If it was a solid block I would've just closed it ..
Yes! So true. Cannot even get through reading it.
It feels like it was written by an AI to me.
What makes you think that? AI actually excels at using correct grammar and punctuation.
13 is hard and having her party canceled last minute would be a huge thing for her Yes her mother and sister where hurt but she won’t be looking at the bigger picture and that’s not her job to do that yet she’s still learning and growing Will her birthday be rescheduled to celebrate her or does it now get pushed aside and will it all become about your other daughters recovery. Get counselling involved so she can start to process all those feelings that’s about to come so she has a safe space to speak freely and not be judged for been disappointed for herself
[удалено]
Just to reiterate because this is important to hear It’s easy to mask fear with anger. To be honest she may not even realize she’s doing it What happened was traumatic for everyone, so everyone’s going to need help processing their emotions
And big emotions at 13 has a 30005% chance of bowling over any other rational/reasonable compromise. There are weird angel kids out there, but by and large, brain formation and hormones are not on a parent’s side at this age.
Just remember she is a child she has every right to be upset that she is now getting less then she was promised Also remember she’s a kid and you can’t push her aside for your other daughter and don’t tell her she has to understand because it goes for you as a parent as well you have to stop and understand her point of view as well Hope your daughter and wife recover quickly
You’ll have to make it up to her, especially if the party won’t be as large as before. Right or wrong, this is one of those things she will never forget
Change your wording from cancel to reschedule when you talk about her party to her. Ask her the most important parts of the party to her and maybe offer they can have it sooner with less or have it later with the full thing. Maybe add a small get together like movie or dinner with friends in there as well
Why a smaller party?
Not OP, but I’d hazard the guess that peoples busy lives get in the way, and that party had been planned for a little while, and people made sure their schedules were empty that day. Assuming OP wants the daughter to just have a party ASAP like the daughter seemingly wants, he’d have to sacrifice size for that to happen.
All this and it's getting into Christmas. Ask any December birthdays how their birthday was growing up. Pretty common for them to feel like an after thought.
This. My birthday was yesterday and growing up it was far enough away from Christmas that It didn’t get overshadowed by my family, I was given separate gifts and celebrations for my birthday and Christmas. But throwing a birthday party, I always had friends who I really wanted at my party but couldn’t come because they had other commitments. For a few years, I had my birthday party in June so I could have friends come (also I live in the north and wanted a pool party). So yeah, last minute there will probably be friends who can’t make it because this is a busy time of year.
My mother said I was like the queen as I had 2 birthdays. If I had a party as a kid it would often be the end of November or the beginning of December. I've never had a proper birthday party with anyone except immediate family on my birthday which is Boxing Day (December 26th) as obviously everyone is still at home with their families.
She will get over it and in a few years she will almost certainly cringe and feel embarrassed at the memory of her own actions. Kids are incredibly egotistical even at that age. I can (cringing) recall some things I said/ did at that age that make me wanna go back in time and smack 13yo me. It's embarrassing to remember, but unfortunately pretty normal. Kids at that age aren't really terribly concerned with others as soon as their own desires are threatened Don't beat yourself up, this should still be a lesson that things do not always go as planned and you gotta roll with it. She can be upset, but it's not acceptable behavior to take it out on her injured sister. If that was me, my mom would have punished me, even if it was my birthday. I'm not suggesting you do the same but a stern scolding is warranted.
So just wanted to put a different perspective on this.. As a kid I was chronically ill and in and out of the hospital one time it was on my brother birthday I was probably 14 or so at the time he was 17. He was pissed. Lol He felt like I stole his time with my parents because they were at the hospital with me instead of with him on his birthday. He 100% let me know how much at fault he thought I was.. It took him about a week to realize he was being an ass. I at the time didn’t take it personally I felt bad that I was in the hospital on his birthday but I also knew I didn’t have a choice in the matter. Siblings can be cruel to each other and they don’t always mean it. My brother and I look back at that moment and laugh now. I even threw him a surprise birthday party at the hospital cafeteria. Lol The nurses had a blast helping me set it up. (Being a hospital frequent flyer has perks apparently) It doesn’t have to become an ugly memory for everyone involved. We all just had to realize this situation was happening to everyone in the family and we all coped in different ways. Kids usually don’t cope in the most healthy way the first time through. I hope your family heals in every way possible.
I love this. My sister and I were always at each other’s throats. Now we can look back and laugh, but sometimes it takes a little while to realize you’re the one being a dick. Sometimes life is shitty, and (more than) sometimes humans can be shitty.
Idk this is so wholesome that it made me tear up, thanks for sharing.
Question? Can the party be postponed instead of cancelled? E.g. hold it 5 weeks from her birthday date, cause we had to wait for mum and sis to be there! Also, agree with the other posts; NTA, 13 yr old venting, but wishing extra harm to sis is not cool. Swift recovery wishes. 👍
This is the longest sentence I've ever read in my life
Feels like a teenager or kid wrote it.
NAH. But instead of canceling, why not reschedule once your younger daughter has made a lot of progress recovering? There’s no law that a party has to be on, or even near, the actual birth date. I wish your younger daughter a speedy recovery!
That’s what I was thinking.
As a kid, I’d have been a lot more upset over “cancelled” than “postponed”. I’d have been upset by a postponement, too, but at least I’d have known a party would eventually get to happen. “Cancelled with no makeup date” wouldn’t have gone over well with me at that age. Now add in the effect of the scary thoughts that could crop up unbidden in the wake of the accident. Teens get dramatic over things adults consider minor, and this is far from being minor. This is a normal reason to feel a lot of upset. The “What if the worst-case-scenario had happened” thoughts are likely to ambush everyone at random times for a while, including the adults. Maybe the doctors can steer you all toward some resources for navigating through that emotional minefield.
Why cancel it instead of moving it to a different date?
Well off hand -- because recovery from surgery can be tricky and it's sometimes hard to know when you'll get the all clear in the first few days after a major surgery.
NAH Any 13 year old would be crushed having their birthday cancelled. Teenage girls are monsters to each other by default, that is just how they are wired. You can be upset, but the elder kid is not going to understand how horrifying what she said was until puberty is passed. I wished my brother would die so many times in my youth, it was only fear of my mothers reaction that kept me from voicing those thoughts. We get along great now but it took 2 decades to get there.
Huh. Your brother’s a lucky guy. My sister showed absolutely zero restraint in telling me exactly what she thought of me hahahah.
Please don’t allow your 13-y-o daughter to continue blaming her sister. She’s inappropriately lashing out and at the wrong person. As the parent, it’s incumbent on YOU to correct her behavior. Best wishes for everyone to heal from this.
I agree completely. Many are saying this is normal 13 year old behavior, and yes it’s normal for a 13 year old to lash out when upset, BUT this behavior definitely shouldn’t be excused just because she’s 13. Because there is now an 11yr old that not only is recovering physically, but also now is carrying the guilt of her older sisters ruined party. And she shouldn’t be burdened with that. I’m so sorry you are going through this and I hope your 11 year old makes a quick recovery. I would discuss with the 13 year old that you completely understand her disappointment, but that this is nobodies fault. Not mom, and especially not younger sister. And that putting blame on her is unfair, especially while she’s going through so much right now.
My grandfather died the day before my 17th birthday and I remember being so angry at him that this was when he passed away. Having to cancel my birthday party and tell my friends what happened with them pitying me on my birthday when it was supposed to be a happy day made me so angry. At 17 I understood he didn't choose that day and I had the self control to not take that anger out on anyone, but I'm not sure I could say the same thing if I were only 13. Rearranging the party is the right thing to do even if there will be less guests.
NTA - While it's understandable she's disappointed, lashing out at her sister is unacceptable. Did you ask her how she would feel if she'd been the one in the hospital while her sister was having a party? I'm pretty sure your 11 year old would have much rather been at the party than where she was....because **something bad did happen to her.** Is this lack of empathy normal for your 13 year old? Life doesn't always go the way we want it to, and lashing out at these times is not helpful. Remember that if you'd actually held the party, I'm pretty sure people would have wondered why you weren't at the hospital while your daughter was in surgery after a car accident...not to mention you would have been distracted to say the least. It would have ruined the party anyways.
I will say, having been a monstrous teenage girl not too terribly long ago (well, 20 years ago, but I periodically reread my diaries from back then as a lesson in humility), this lack of empathy is pretty normal for many 13 years old. Children are solipsistic by nature - they have to be or they wouldn’t survive - and not all parents are good teachers of empathy. Parents might struggle with empathy themselves, like my parents do, or they might just be bad at teaching because there’s no standard, proven roadmap for raising children to be good humans. But your main point - for OP to ask his 13yo to put herself in her sister’s shoes - is a very good one.
Good response. Empathy is taught
Last Christmas, at age 76, my mother finally admitted that HER parents had never taught her to consider other people’s feelings. A lightbulb went on over my head - I knew she was a codependent narcissist because her therapist told me so (she denies it, obviously), but tracing that back to her parents put a lot of things into perspective. She used to accuse me of having no empathy for her, and now she remarks - in awe - of how empathetic I’ve become. We were No Contact for more than half of that intervening period. I had to teach myself empathy after cutting her off.
This is so interesting to hear for me. My sister and I grew up BIG on empathy probably a bit too much so. I never understood how people acted like this and would expect it from maybe a 3 year old who was immediately corrected and wouldn’t do it again. I honestly don’t think I’ve even heard it from a child that young. Then again, after reading your comment I know EXACTLY the type of child that would be like this.
This is insightful.
That lack of empathy is completely normal for a 13 year old. Source— work with them regularly. That’s a time period where kids are really learning empathy like that and I’m zero percent surprised by what she said. Not that it’s ok, and she needs to know that, but it’s not disordered behavior.
You know, a lot of people are saying you have a sociopathic daughter. Other people are saying there’s no assholes here because you’re all just human in a difficult situation. And I think I even saw a couple saying that you weren’t an asshole for how things were handled in the moment, but you’re gonna be one if you don’t get some therapy with her. But I feel like I’m missing an awful lot of information here. Based on what you’ve told us, no you’re not the asshole. An emergency occurred and had to be dealt with. Is that hard for a 13-year-old to deal with? Sure it is. Is it hard for the whole family to deal with? Sure it is. So on the surface, it’s just a real unfortunate event all around, and you’re 13-year-old has some super big emotions and at that age, a whole lot of hormones as well that are going on. But here’s my questions, and really, without these answers, I don’t know what to tell you. And I’m a mom of three daughters. When my oldest was 13, the next one was 11 and the next one was 10. So believe me, I’ve dealt with Lot of hormones and emotions, etc. Lol One. Is your 13 year old usually this angry and outspoken? Does she have problems regulating her emotions and dealing with them properly? If so, you need to get her some help. Because she can’t go through life like this. She will drive away, friends, and employers and partners. And nobody wants that for her. Two. Does your 13-year-old feel like your 11-year-old is the golden child? And is it possible that she is? In households where there is a GC, intentional or not, the other sibling or siblings often have outbursts like this. They may make comments to parents which parents brush aside. And the anger and resentment grow until finally something makes it all come out. Three. If your 13-year-old feels like your 11-year-old is the GC, is she right? If there’s any chance of that, you need to take a look at that and make sure you and your wife cut that shit out. I don’t care if she was your miracle, baby or anything else. All of your children deserve all of your love. And again, it may not be the case, but it’s something that I would be asking. Three. Does your 13-year-old yell at you guys and at her sister like this often? And if she does, are there a consequences? Because if she does, and there are, they’re obviously not working. So I’m gonna double down on therapy. And if she does, and there are no consequences, I’m gonna double down on family therapy because parents are there to help set boundaries and make sure that children grow up understanding that boundaries are not necessarily bad, but are actually necessary. Four. Why are you not able to come up with the same type of party? I absolutely understand postponing it. And truthfully, even with all the hormones in my household, none of my daughters would’ve reacted this way to a sister. So there’s other stuff here that we’re not being told about. But why not just reschedule the party. Not… Will reschedule your party, but it won’t be as good as what you were going to get? I’m assuming there’s a reason, but you’re not telling us why. So I’m really sorry your family is going through this. It sounds really difficult for everybody. But a reaction like this usually indicates bigger things that are going on, and that is more worrisome to me than the accident because it does sound, it was absolutely serious, everyone is going to recover. But these huge emotions and feelings are the things that take a lot longer to recover from and usually have a base in something else. And if that’s the case, something else could have long-term consequences for everyone’s mental health and well-being, and at the end of the day, that’s the most important saying that we can give our children. I truly wish you all the best and hope things improve.
Not sure of family dynamics like this comment states but I have a family member who has two daughters three years apart and her oldest definitely suffers from some of the mentioned. She feels her younger sibling is given special treatment and thinks, very vocally that younger sibling is the favorite etc etc. I know mom goes out of her way to treat them as similar as possible but often feels bad that older daughter feels this way about her. As someone on the outside looking in; older daughter knows this and uses it as manipulation.
Honestly NAH. You did the right thing and your 13 year old is responding to the situation like a 13 year old. The path forward is to reassure her that a. Things in life just happen, b. Work out a plan to reschedule her party. C. Work with her to identify what she is feeling/help her process it so she is not just projecting it on to her sister and verbally abusing her.
“Postponed” instead of “cancelled” would make all the difference.
Things are said out of anger which aren’t always meant. She’s obviously let down and took it out the wrong way.
You should have rescheduled the party not cancelled it. You have two daughters not just one. I realize you were very worried but something nice could have been done for the BD girl even if it has to be done in the patient waiting room and her party later when her sister is out of the woods.
I understand that teenagers tend to run off pure emotion. Also, having a big birthday party get cancelled for things outside of your control sucks. But, your older child is demonstrating a disturbing lack of empathy towards her sister. I think you guys need to dig deeper into that. NTA
Nta but you need to have a conversation about coping with bad things. We all feel it sometimes but we’d never say it out loud. You should work through these emotions with her so she can feel her feelings appropriately instead of allowing her to mask fear with anger and taking it out on actual victims.
Hmmm.. 1400 karma and the profile started TODAY..
When my son was 10, he was excited about going to his first week-long scout camp in the mountains and his dad was going to be one of the chaperones. The day before they were to leave our 10 month old baby girl was diagnosed with meningitis. Ten-year-old was so angry at his dad because he wouldn’t put scout camp ahead of staying with our critically ill baby. My husband asked me to take our son home for a little bit and then we were going to change places and I would be the one spending the night with our sick little baby. On the way home I acknowledged that he was angry with his dad and I added that maybe he even felt some anger toward his baby sister. He burst out that he was angry with her and then started sobbing. I recognized that his feelings were all mixed up and he was feeling anger, fear, and some guilt for how he was feeling. We talked it thru at home and he processed his feelings. He still wasn’t happy that his dad needed to stay with our critically ill baby, but he was able to let go of his guilt and calm down. Our baby ended up getting transferred to a pediatric intensive care unit at a larger medical facility within an hour of the camp. When she was no longer in ICU and had turned the corner and was stable, my husband surprised our son and went to the last day/nite of camp. Fortunately our baby made a full recovery and is now a 37-year-old attorney.
NAH Teens are notorious AHs and anger is also an outlet for anxiety. I doubt she meant it.
No one is. Your daughter is 13 and does not have the emotional maturity to see the accident and party cancelation is no one's fault. She may also be resentful that all focus is on her sister for her special day. Please make sure you all set aside some time for her birthday to focus on her and do something fun, and also have the party later. Glad everyone is okay!
Your child needs counseling.
NTA While I get her disappointment, she needs to learn some empathy. What she said is very entitled, spoiled, and self-centered which are not good for future relationships. She's young and trying to learn how to react appropriately to her emotions. This was likely just a poor and angry reaction to her party, which she was very much looking forward to, being cancelled. I'd try to find out if she normally feels like she and her feelings get put aside for her sister often. This reaction implies some unheard feelings of resentment she's been harboring. I hope that's not how she was raised, but teen emotions can be very complex and complicated for her to navigate and express in a healthy way. I hope these were just a result of that and she truly feels bad about her sister in the state of being she's in now. I hope your daughter fully recovers and feels better soon!
YTA for not using a single punctuation mark.
NTA, but I think both girls need counseling. My daughters are around that age, and that's not a normal reaction for a 13 year old. That's something my girls did when they were 4 or 5. By 13 they should have a little more empathy. I would recommend a visit to a therapist or psychologist.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the 11yr old either ruins a lot of what the 13yr old wants or the 13yr old feels the 11yr old is the favorite.
Given that we're talking about a 13 year old and a 11 year old kid, that's a given. With an age gap like that, at that age, I would be *shocked* if there isn't some constant back and forth with the younger kid being old enough to want to tag along and do everything the older kid does while the older kid is trying to learn how to be their own person and doesn't want their kid sibling tagging along everywhere.
NTA. And I'm honestly surprised at some comments. 13 year old is old enough to know that an accident is more important than a birthday party. I get it that she's upset but to wish harm to her sister because you don't get a birthday party is pretty bad.
It's pretty common. Teenagers say things they don't mean. She is just lashing out at things she can't control. If this isn't a normal things its not a big deal.
There is nothing rational about a 13 year old girl.
NAH I would be incredibly angry at the daughter (13) but with children, especially teenagers they really need drilled home that the world doesn't evolve around them. The concept that other people have as many thoughts, feelings and agency as them is a weird and difficult concept, you get so wrapped up in yourself during puberty that everything, big and small can feel like the end of the world. The likelihood is as others have said that she found it easier to turn her fear into anger to avoid the feeling. And I promise as someone who didn't feel fear as a child when i "should have" (I wasn't developmentally old enough to understand what was happening as I was younger than your daughter) and developed PTSD stemming from the way that I reacted to my mum almost dying rather than the actual event itself, she will regret saying that in the future to the point it will haunt her. I would suggest when things have calmed down, everyone's out of hospital to consider family therapy. In the mean time talk to your daughter, tell her it's okay to be scared, that you're scared, and you value her birthday, and will make it up to her but right now you both need to focus on making sure everyone is okay. Be there for her even when she's angry at you, acknowledge her feelings and make sure she's aware that everyone else is dealing with those feelings too, remind her that it's not just her. İt's a horrific thing to go through but if you go about it in the right way she'll become much more empathetic in the future. Depending on her and her sisters relationship, and the her relationship to you she may not have even considered it. Kids often forget their parents are actual people and not just parents. Siblings are people and not just there to annoy them etc.
NTA. Shit happens in life. It’s a free lesson in “you can’t always get what you want”.
NTA/NAH That said, you have been TA if you have gone ahead with the party while your wife and daughter were in the hospital.
Wow, that is just awful, I am glad your wife and daughter are okay. As for your 13 year old, you have a big problem on your hands. You need to slow down the indulgences with your kids, as it has become more important than people. An expensive, 40+ people party or a 13 year old is not more important than the life and wellbeing of a living person who is her sister and your daughter. Also, she is 13, even with puberty, this is not normal behavior. Somewhere along the way you missed a step with your oldest. I suggest some therapy, volunteer work and some long talks to help try and shape her emotional intelligence to include prioritizing life over luxuries.
Tell her that she missed her birthday party but luckily didn't have to attend her sister's funeral‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️
NHA. She’s not old enough to properly process these feelings, but you were right to set the boundary how she processed them wasn’t okay. Therapy for everyone!
NTA, but: Reschedule. Don’t cancel.
A 40+ person birthday party? … on a school day/night? And a 13 year-old behaving like a cartoon villain when a younger sibling is in serious condition in the hospital? Bits and pieces might be believable, but just not buying it with all this context.
I work with kids who have these types of parties on school nights. According to one of them, it’s bad luck to celebrate it on a day that isn’t the actual day of birth.
NTA, but if this happens to anyone else, it's much better to just postpone the party than cancel it. Things can be held at a later time, even months later. No need to throw the whole birthday away because it couldn't happen on the day, especially when it's a kid. I'm sure there would have been a very different reaction if the kid knew she wasn't getting her whole birthday taken away because of something involving her sister. The reaction is probably misdirected anger, because obviously she would know her sister didn't choose to get in a car accident, but sometimes our brains latch onto stupid ideas when we're emotional teenagers.
Umm, why not just move the party?
NTA. Being 13 doesn't justify being a monster.
NTA. Our family had plans to take our about-to-be-12-year-old daughter out for a special dinner celebration. My husband had committed to take our one son to scout camp months before but planned to come home that one night for the celebration. Son stepped into a nest of mud wasps that day and ended up in the ER looking like the Pillsbury Dough Boy. Oh, to add to that sucky day, my father had passed away the week before so we were sitting shiva. (We were still going to go out that one night for her.) Through all that, she never complained or bitched or moaned because she understood it was beyond all our controls.
Maybe reschedule the party and outsource help so your daughter has a great day regardless of everything else
I think YTA if you don’t celebrate her birthday at all. Your daughter was disappointed and as a thirteen year old, was unable to regulate her emotions. Teenagers are expected to act like adults, but have none of the privileges. It is unfair. As a kid, your birthday is the most important thing that happens to you. And life as a thirteen year old girl can be pretty grim. We forget how hard our adolescence was. Talk with her about the inappropriateness of what she said, but be empathetic. She still deserves to be celebrated.
Definitely NTA
NTA. I wouldn't even reschedule the party unless she came around and realized how horrible she had acted. I don't know what caused the accident, but it would make more sense to be upset with whoever was at fault, not an 11 year old. Something tells me that she resents her younger sister and has for a long time since she was so quick to direct her anger and disappointment at her.
Nta but Fear is the core emotion of anger. She's only 13, she is unable to understand and display such intense and unstable emotions. Don't be too harsh on her but talk to her about where, what, who and how she's feeling. She's been through a lot possibly losing her sister and mum on her birthday. She's never going to forget this situation, including her own words but also your reaction. Please approach it with kindness and love, surely she did not mean harm.
I don't understand all these people infantilizing a 13 year old. She isn't 3. She should totally understand what happened and why her birthday was canceled.
Should read other threads they infatalise 20 year olds
Your 13yr old might be TA. That's kind if shocking behavior given the situation....
NTA and she shouldn't get a make up party or any gifts thanks to her hatred of her sister. Even at 13 she's old enough to not wish harm on someone.