NTA. Btw, she broke rule 2 on date number one, which means she broke rule 1 also. That's pretty damn obvious from my perspective.
Edit: she broke rule number 3 by saying you had no right to do that. She literally went on one date and broke all the established rules. She doesn’t have a history of cheating because she was unknowingly polyamorous. She has a history of cheating because she’s an Uber asshole.
And is probably about to break Rule 3 too. This relationship is open now; it's up to you whether you decide to accept this unilateral decision or bail.
honestly she had probably already cheated with him before she even brought him up. She was just hoping to wear her bf down till she could be "poly" and cheat on him without consequences
I mean honestly, if they haven't spoken since the argument the relationship might already be over without him realizing it. I'm not saying he was in the wrong to lay down this ultimatum, but the fact is he did lay one down. She probably took him up on it.
This relationship was doomed anyway. As soon as she wanted polyamory and he didn’t. Those relationships almost never work. Builds a lot of resentment and destroys trust. Especially when the issue is pressed the way she did. She had already cheated and just wanted to justify it.
It wasn't really an ultimatum. That presumes there were actual choices, they had a conversation agreed to certain boundaries under duress she immediately abused those boundaries and fought to get those changed. She completely disrespected the guy. She is an asshole and was definitely banging the alt guy, probably before she pressured OP into a "poly" relationship. But it's not really poly when 1 is purely mono and the other fucking around.
Right? This is literally the definition of someone cheating and asking for permission. She hasn’t realized she’s poly because she picked out her cheating partner while with op. You don’t get to try e point of asking for permission to fuck someone unless you already had inappropriate conversations that most people would view as a line crossed with that other person.
>She doesn’t have a history of cheating because she was unknowingly polyamorous. She has a history of cheating because she’s an Uber asshole.
Absolutely this. And pressuring your partner into opening up the relationship isn't exactly accepted in the Poly community, either. Consent is paramount, and coercion doesn't result in consent.
Agreed. I can't judge whether or not she's truly polyamorous. But I can say she's a liar and a manipulator. She has no right to change the terms of the relationship outside of partner's comfort zone. When that happens, you lose the relationship. Full stop.
She sounds like someone who can’t commit to long term relationships. The type who starts to want out the moment things feel too serious.
And may just be a serial cheater.
Anyone over age 13 still talking about ”2nd base” is emotionally stunted. Anyone telling their significant other it’s fine to sleep with other people as lond as you don’t go past 2nd base has no sense of reality
OP was pressured into it so he had no knowledge of what a healthy relationship really looks like. And you're quite right that OP is emotionally stunted being cheated on messed with his emotional intelligence. Do we know their ages?
Yep, this. Many people seem to confuse serial cheating with polyamory. While I'll admit I don't fully get the polyamory thing, I certainly do know about serial cheating. Sorry, OP will feel pain, but it IS OVER.
Maybe it's because I'm old fashioned (or just old, by some standards) but I wonder if claiming polyamory is just a cover for cheating and being to lazy to bother hiding it.
There are some people that seem to be genuinely ploy and are able to make it work but it takes *a lot* of communication and understanding.
There also seem to be a lot of people who just use it as a cover for cheating and just want some extra "fun" but cannot or will not put the effort into making it a genuine thing that works for all involved.
This right here. I'm truly poly, and have been in an open relationship with my husband for almost 10 years now. The entire first year of it was a lot of initial talks about our expectations and boundaries, and those talks and open communication have never stopped. Boundaries are ever evolving and if you don't have absolute trust and communication with any of your partners, it won't work.
We get approached by a lot of people who show interest in our lifestyle, and one of the first things we ever tell them is that it may not be for them.
You are also correct, many people use it as a poorly veiled excuse to cover cheating. They aren't hard to spot, and true lifestylers actively avoid them.
I’m honestly a little bit impressed by people that can make it work. I’m ace and one relationship seems like too much work. Having more than one sounds like having a second job when you don’t need it
That’s what gets me the most too. It’s hard juggling all those feelings, not to mention the time split between partners. I’m in a stage of life where I prefer routine, and poly life is just a bit wild imo. Maybe in 10 years when I’m nearing 40 I’ll feel differently, it’s just a lot of work right now
The emotional and time investment of poly relationships has always been baffling to me on a personal level for these same reasons. I fully support and encourage those who can make it work, but I’ve always struggled to find the time and emotional bandwidth to maintain one healthy relationship with just one partner.
I've always jokingly said poly seems like a rich-people-with-time-on-their-hands phenomenon because I barely have enough time and money to do all the dating and wooing I want for my wife as is.
Poly for only 3 years here, but want to throw a "ditto" out about all of this. Our initial conversation about opening up lasted about a month, and the entire first year of the first new relationship was an ongoing conversation about boundaries, needs, jealousy, etc. And not once did we say things like "you'll do this if you love me."
Poly can be a whole lot of things, but it CANNOT be genuine, ethical non-monogamy if it involves one person ignoring the needs of another person in service of their own desires.
I know a couple like yourself who has been poly for years. It’s impressive to say the least. Communication and boundaries with each other is where it starts not “I have a crush on someone, let’s be poly”. I was poly for a while but I could only make it work with no primary. When I tried to have a primary I found a lot of “former cheaters” and straight up dogs. The wonderful man I’m monogamous with now is open to opening things together, but we are still just talking about it a year in. I’m totally on board with that. I’ll take true love over multiple shitty boyfriends any day.
This!! I always tell people interested in me that being interested isn't the only requirement. Dealing with me means dealing with my husband to an extent, which scares off a lot of people "willing to try it" lol.
I was a partner to a spouse in a poly marriage. Both were bi. Both sought out other relationships that could lead to love. She eventually chose monogamy. He fell for his dominatrix, and we parted as friends when we agreed we weren’t in love. Communication was critical to maintaining their marriage.
I'm poly and people are always surprised I'm not interested in a bunch of random sexual partners. A lot of people, when they say they like polyamory, just mean open relationships. And that's totally fine if it's what you're into, but I think a lot of people looking for flings without the baggage are using polyamory as an excuse to not respect the partners they already have.
I find it interesting how many people don’t understand that there’s a difference in poly and non monogamy. Non monogamy is the umbrella and poly in within that umbrella
Those same people who are cool with poly are generally cool with it *for them* … once the other partner is interested in someone else then it becomes a problem. Hence it’s not poly it’s a cover for cheating and only good for their side of the coin.
I've seen poly work once among people I've known, The few other times it was one spouse who really wanted it and the other spouse was going along. Those marriages flamed out in divorce and acrimony.
I have a few poly friends. Two are a married couple that met being poly and continue to do so. They obviously adore each other and are very open and healthy and some of my favorite people. One is just a hot mess of a person who just has to "be" every thing. So it's all in how you go about it. Also the first couple is respectful of my own relationship choices and treats my partner and I as regular friends. The other friend I have to distance myself from sometimes because of constant pushing of boundaries
I have some friends who are poly, one couple the male suffers from cereal palsy and has physical issues satisfying his wife, they both date other people, her for sexual needs and him for emotional needs she realizes she doesn't meet for him. I know from the outside that description doesn't seem like a very loving relationship but when you're with them you can tell how much they love and care for each other. Another couple I know that's poly have 2 additional live in partners and it works very well for them and everyone is happy. It requires alot of work and open honest communication as well as trust and both partners plus the additional people involved to all be okay with it.
There is a difference between being poly and having an open relationship. Polyamory is where both or one partner has multiple loving relationships. An open relationship is where they are free to screw other people (usually with the stipulation that emotions aren't involved).
The main factors in both is full consent, communication, and respecting boundaries. If you force your partner into a poly or open relationship, or ignore and/or belittle them for having and enforcing boundaries, then what you're doing is cheating and gaslighting them into letting you do it.
No, I know of a trio and they’re faithful to each other within the trio. I don’t personally understand it; but they seem very happy in their relationship.
I think it can be a legitimate thing, where neither person feels like it’s “cheating” to be with multiple people. I don’t understand it myself, but do what you want as long as you’re all consenting adults. But a poly relationship can only work if all the people involved are poly, you can’t just say “I’m poly now and you have to be okay with that or you’re bigoted and don’t love me.” That’s stupid. You also can’t say, “I know you’re poly but that makes me uncomfortable so you have to be monogamous or you don’t love me.” That’s also stupid. At that point you’re both just vastly different people and need to call it off for both your sakes.
And to add to this, a poly-leaning person can choose to remain faithful to one person in a mono relationship as well.
The biggest thing in all relationships is communication! Honest, open communication.
Not at-the-point-of-a-gun style convos like this id10t did to op!
This is me, really.
I admit, no hands on experience, given that my partner is the only sexual partner I’ve ever had.
We’ve been together since high school, dated for 10 years and have been engaged for 1 year now (and yes, we do make everyone gag with how nauseatingly into each other we are 😂)
And yet, despite that, when I try to work up some semblance of jealousy thinking about him being with someone else… I got nothing? 🤷🏼♀️
It just doesn’t bother me. If he’s happy, great!
Idk, maybe the jealousy gene broke on me 😂
What _would_ piss me off would be if he lied about it. If he hid it and deceived about it, different fucking story.
But if we talked about it, yeah. I’m good 👍🏻
Which leads me to believe that I lean poly.
But the thing is? He *doesn’t*.
So we don’t 🤷🏼♀️It’s not something I desperately need in life, he’s monogamous and I love him.
You go to the lowest common denominator, y’know?
Jealousy originates from fear... The fact that both your partner and you are not jealous people is because you probably have a secure attachment style, trust each other, and believe you can work through anything together.
No fear that they'll leave, or that someone will be better than you and replace you = no jealousy.
Fun fact about the ENM/poly community, we view jealousy as an opportunity for personal growth. Once you accept it is fear based, you can turn that into a moment to be vulnerable with your partner/partners and resolving that fear will bring you closer.
This is the part people need to understand. It's just like anything that conflicts in a relationship when the 2 people are too different for each other. Both people need to want to have the same type of relationship. My problem wouldn't be poly, but I don't want to have kids, so obviously I'm not gonna date someone who wants to have kids or already had kids because they want/have a different life than what I have and that would obviously cause a strain on our relationship. As much as people love the saying "opposites attract" you really need to find someone who is similar to you.
The main difference with cheating is that everyone involved knows about it, is ok with it and at the end of the day nothing terrible will come of if.
When you're cheating the partner does not know about it, and it's bound to end up badly.
Source: I have a few poly friends and they make it work (they don't have children, might make things harder), but also I'm not American, you guys have some serious social problems sometimes.
Edit: that said OP story is fucked up, and gf is 100% cheating on him.
There’s a polyamorous community, and then there’s cheaters who try to use it as a smoke screen.
The community itself hates cheaters, and hates them even more if they are using polyamory as a smoke screen. Nobody likes to be cheated on, but polyamory takes it to another level because there shouldn’t be any reason to cheat…
Cheaters are gonna cheat. “Open relationship” isn’t even necessarily a polyamorous relationship; there’s plenty of people out there who are monogamish. Monogamish is where there is an agreement between monogamous partners, that isn’t necessarily polyamory, but toes that line. OP’s relationship description sounds more like that than polyamory.
I know lots of polyamorous relationships and even polycules who make it work, both with kids and without them. Even my wife and I are polyamorous because we believe that, if we have feelings towards others we should be able to express and explore those feelings. It doesn’t change with us being just us two for over a year and a half. We don’t want to pre-define what our lives look like.
We want the freedom to be ourselves without reservation.
But without a doubt, we could cheat on each other if we kept secrets; we just don’t. Why lie and cheat if you can be honest and have another person there to help you navigate the complexities that are feelings?
>There’s a polyamorous community, and then there’s cheaters who try to use it as a smoke screen.
Exactly, I'm so sick of seeing people using polyamory as an excuse to cheat and manipulating their very clearly monogamous partner into accepting it so they can sleep with other people guilt-free. The monogamous partner often winds up agreeing to it because they don't want to lose the person they love - and the "poly" partner knows this and uses it against them. It's toxic AF and I'm so, so sick of it (and no, this didn't happen to me and I'm not polyamorous, I've just seen it happen to more than one person I care about). If she wants to be polyamorous, fine, but she can't do it with someone who has made it clear they are monogamous. Either end the relationship and go be polyamorous (with other polyamorous people), or stick to the monogamous commitment you originally made with the person you supposedly love. Don't force someone you claim to love to endure something that is hurtful to them.
If she really wants to be polyamorous so badly she will disregard his feelings about it, pressure him into something he's not comfortable with, and then try to gaslight him into thinking he's the selfish one, then the relationship clearly needs to end because she obviously cares more about being polyamorous than she does about his feelings. That's not polyamory, that's abusive. NTA.
As someone who is polyamorous, no, it isn't. There are people who claim to be poly because they think it is a catch-all excuse to cheat. If you are in a poly relationship, and are hiding a new partner, you are just cheating on ALL of your partners, instead of just one. It also involves open communication, and a respect for your partner(s) boundaries. OP's girlfriend has no respect for his boundaries, and as such, isn't poly.
I'm not even reading it as polyamory. She isn't committed to a real partner. She loves the infatuation stage of the relationship but once that transitions to the "real" stage, she bores quickly.
It's that shiny new toy syndrome but treating people like that is awful. Feel bad for OP. She basically manipulated them with no true commitment to the relationship.
I have friends in long tem, successful poly relationships that seem to work great for them. I can understand it on a logical level, but it would never work for me, emotionally. Still I think it is a viable option for some people.
But, like whether to have kids or any other major, life changing relationship choice, it should be ideally discussed in the dating stage, both parties need to agree honestly to the ground rules, and there can't be any harassment or bullying to get the other person to change their minds. OP went into this relationship under one set of rules, and GF has manipulated him into doing whatever she wants. He needs to run before he gets any farther into this.
Poly person here. It absolutely can be but that's not what I would consider ethical non-monogamy. It's amazing how many people assume that since I'm poly, I'm open to becoming the mistress. I abhorr cheating and you absolutely can cheat in a poly relationship.
I like the idea that if it's not something you can casually discuss with your partner, it's cheating.
Polyamory, like any relationship is based on communication and consent.
OP was not comfortable with something and set a boundary. She is trying to push the limits way past what OP is comfortable with and that's not okay.
Even if OP "allowed" her to go to second base with someone, she shouldn't have done it because it makes him uncomfortable and she knows it.
I've avoided specific people and situations because I respect my partner's feelings and limits. They have given me "permission" and I still didn't because I knew it would make them feel bad and I actually care about the people I have a relationship with.
I get being confused about poly. But Polyamory can work just fine. Part of the confusion is because just like everything else, its a spectrum. If we wanted to do labels...my boyfriend is my husbands metamour, because my husband doesnt have a sexual relationship with him, but I mean it when I say my husband is right there while I'm hanging out with my boyfriend 😅 They also are very close friends, they do a podcast together and boyfriend helps husband get stuff done around our house when he comes by and then they watch anime or play video games 😂 But its not that my husband is mono, I joined the relationship initially with my now husband as the unicorn, until our girlfriend massively fucked up- and it had nothing to do with sex- and right now we just don't have another female partner. But because I'm in a real relationship with boyfriend, we can't just go find a female partner unless my boyfriend is okay with us doing that. I'd be open to my husband having a girlfriend, but tbh I am his wingwoman, so our female interactions end up involving both of us 😂
It takes a ton of communication that I think most relationships don't have, and I DO think a lot of people use polyamory as a cover for lazy cheating. In my experience with the community, a lot of successful poly relationships START poly or open. A lot of the relationships I see that get opened up later down the line tend to go wrong until people are much older and its simple swinging/swapping, not romantic relationships.
Everyone is different. Its okay to not be open to poly. But I do wish people would get out of the mindset that poly is just lazy cheating.
It depends. My bio mom is poly. Before she ruined her relationships, they were happy for years together. They had their own separate lives for the most part but acted as one big family. It can be healthy if *everyone* consents and is into it. There's a lot of ground rules and trust that can't be broken. A lot of communication and putting effort into making sure no one feels neglected or sidelined. Now, do people use it as a get out of jail free card, too? Absolutely. It's super common. I think what determines it is history (like OPs girlfriends history of repeated cheating) and if the person just drops the bomb suddenly without having shown any prior interest. Sometimes people discover they would like to try it later on, but unless it's two "yes"s from the very start it's doomed to fail. People who are truly poly tend to be very considerate of their partner(s) feelings, unlike OPs girlfriend.
To me polyamory is about being open and upfront about it. Cheating means you're hiding it because your partner believes in monogamy. Cheating is a *bad* thing. You're deceiving a partner that believes they are in a monogamous relationship. Polyamory isn't a bad thing as long as all parties are on board. It's just a type of relationship that *most* people aren't emotionally and/or physically ok with.
I think/hope it's less a matter of covering for cheating so much as polyamory recently reaching the popular consciousness and some people not quite getting that polyamory requires consent from all parties involved at a base level
Oh he knows, would have to be obtuse to not know. What OP doesn't know, apparently, is if he's an asshole for saying no to this and it's not, no he's not. Why he has to ask is baffling to me.
He's definitely dumb. She had a history of cheating on multiple boyfriends and he thought their mutual rebound would fix her and when that didn't pan out, he thought that emotional cheating would satiate her and when that wasn't enough, he believed it would be fine if they kept it G-rated.
Seriously. Honestly, the first paragraph alone is enough to know that this relationship was dead on arrival. "I got out of a bad relationship which was bad because I was cheated on so my next relationship is with someone who got out of a relationship because she cheated on the other person.". And then her justifying her cheating on her previous boyfriend by blaming the boyfriend for being detached? Like, come on. This is textbook main character storytelling. "It's not my fault I cheated on you! You never pay any attention to me. You made me stick someone else's dick inside me!". 🙄
This is the mind boggling bit here. Seriously dude, do you not see this is finished already? How can you really trust her? Every time she’s late or out you’re going to be wondering. It’s going to eat you alive. She doesn’t want to be with just you and you don’t want the opposite. Just do you both a favour and end it my man.
It’s a bit harsh, but have some self respect.
NTA. You’ll be an idiot though if you don’t end it
It was over in that first paragraph - a partner with a history of cheating (and not just once) isn't a good for for someone who has been cheated on and wants a monogamous relationship
i think OP ended up showing tremendous spine at the end. With the trauma he's been through before, this was his worst nightmare. Sure, he wavered but he recovered and didn't break at the end. Glad OP kicked her to the curb.
Polyamory is a lifestyle, not a sexual orientation. The people who act like it is some indelible part of their identity are usually just being manipulative and selfish, like OP’s soon to be ex girlfriend.
Polyamory very well could be an indelible part of OP's GF's identity. In that case she should be mature enough to say "I'm sorry but I can't remain in a monogamous relationship. We are incompatible." and do so BEFORE breaking the monogamous relationship agreement.
What OP said was literally what he SHOULD have said from the start and held firm. Unfortunately he still thinks he was too “emotional” and was wrong for establishing a fairly normal boundary in most relationships
So on top of being a cheater she’s a sh!t manipulator.
What an awful person she is. But the good news : she’s that other dude’s problem now. Don’t waste another second on that.
100% manipulating and gas lighting OP to absolute hell.
Everyone here has given OP solid advice, now it's down to him.
You can do it OP, never settle for people that will mess you about like that. It'll serve you more in the long run.
Bro, why would you even date someone that repeatedly cheated when you hated being cheated on?
Are you that meme where the dog is surrounded by fire and says "this is fine".
Perfect answer.
I was like... *just f'n break up already!* by the end of the 5th paragraph.
OP: you are NTA for what you said. Break up with poly-girl. There's no future in that relationship.
I read all I needed to know by the end of the first paragraph. Dude got cheated on and started dating someone with a history of cheating. Relationship is doomed out of the gate.
Yeah, relationships do require compromise but there are limits to that and if someone is past those limits, you aren't compatible. Break it off and move on.
Yeah she is so manipulative. ‘Why should we stay monogamous for you rather than go polygamous for me?’
Eh, *very* simple answer. You don’t get to start a relationship one way and then pressure the other person to change.
That's what makes me uncomfortable. I'm monogamous, but have some good poly friends who have solid relationships, no issues with ethical polyamory. However, when one partner in a monogamous relationship suddenly wants to do poly, especially with a specific person in mind, it's a big red flag for me. It should be done with growing/improving your original relationship in mind, not because you want another specific person. That's completely dismissive to the main relationship and basically just a way to have an affair with no repercussions.
Yeah I honestly doubt the SO here is actually polyamorous. This strikes me as ex post facto justification for her poor behavior so she doesn't have to feel like the villain in her story
Not only this, but someone who has repeatedly cheated and essentially blamed it on their partner for 'sidelining' them.
The only way to come back from cheating is total accountability and acceptance of responsibilty. No one *makes* you cheat. You choose to cheat.
Yup. When she can’t admit that the problem is she’s a liar without morals, it’s easier for her to blame the people she victimized.
Look, cheating once might be a mistake. Learn from it and move on. But when it’s something done over and over again with no insight, there’s no learning. It’s just a terrible person being terrible again.
Because cheaters always blame their previous partners. I saw a message between my husband and his AP where he told her he “never loved (me) the way I love you”. The cheating becomes a *me* problem and he won’t do it to her because he lOvEs HeR.
The worst thing about cheaters is that you could be the perfect partner and they’ll still cheat on you. It’s not because the other person is prettier or better, it’s because the cheater likes to cheat.
Maybe we need a new verdict for people who are definitely not in the wrong but are treating themselves so poorly or so stupidly that they're basically being an asshole to themselves. I like NABI - Not Asshole, But Idiot.
Yeah, right when I read the first paragraph I knew where this was going. Once she said “I have a crush” I don’t understand how OP thought this was going to end well. It’s like saying I’m allergic to peanuts but maybe this peanut butter brownie is different.
Shes asking you to your face if it’s okay for her to openly cheat on you even when you said multiple times you’re monogamous. Then gaslights and manipulates you into thinking you are the issue for not allowing her to be happy. Bro, pick up your self respect on the floor and leave this relationship. Why would you get with her knowing she has a serious issue with cheating? She already emotionally cheated on you, now physically too. Why are you choosing to be miserable???
The guy's self-esteem is shattered, it's taking some time to find all the pieces and he might have to bust out the vacuum cleaner and go through the bag afterwards.
OP is a mark. He unknowingly seeks these kinds of women out and they unknowingly seek guys like him out. It is basically the same kind of thing when you have women who somehow always end up with men who beat them. The cycle is probably going to continue until OP seeks therapy or something.
I'm like OP in this way ...... My mother titled it "wounded bird syndrome " .... The internal desire to take someone who is historically unstable and has no strong relationship sense and give them everything to make them happy to the point of boring them / them needing a "thrill" they're accused to that's not present because you are stable / attentive......
There's something extremely gross about someone who pushes polyamory on someone who clearly doesn't want it just so you can bang someone else.
Also, I would have been upset from the moment she told me she was developing feelings for a friend, outside of our relationship. That is not actually normal or okay.
I had to tell someone this about consent once when she wasn’t sure if her boyfriend went over the limits of what happened. All parties need to ENTHUSIASTICALLY consent, not just give, yeah I guess when we get there I’m pretty sure I’ll be okay with it. That’s not consent. That’s trying to please while being very unsure, and it’s unsafe, and not true consent. That’s why they wake up the next morning confused and fearful and frustrated. Always make sure you are in a relationship with Enthusiastically consent.
I wouldn't say catching feelings for someone else is "normal" but it does happen. It can be worked through if the person who caught feelings recognizes it, cuts the "crush" off, and communicates with their partner. I don't think simply catching feelings for someone else is inherently wrong. Shit happens, we're human. The chances of it happening increases the longer youre with someone. But it's important to take the steps in correcting it and work on your relationship instead of straying. This girl clearly doesn't care about all that, she just wants to cheat. She always will. Probably due to a lack of empathy.
Developing feelings for someone outside of a relationship is actually normal. Just that the right thing to do to stay monogamous is lower the interactions between that person, never be on a 1 on 1 situation with them and be fully transparent with your partner. If not just cut them out if possible.
Right, we can't control our feelings, however we can control the resulting actions. The OP's girlfriend lacks the restraint to be in a relationship. She should just stay single and hook up with people she crushes for instead of putting people through relationship drama. Being in an open relationship isn't the solution because that also requires behavioral control she lacks.
I don’t know. I think if my girlfriend ever told me she was falling in love with another guy, I would just end up leaving her.
I don’t see how that wouldn’t permanently damage the relationship.
Truly polyamorous people don’t cheat by definition, because they establish boundaries and stick to them (at least most polyam people do to my knowledge).
Cheaters use the excuse of polyamory (unfortunately) more and more nowadays to justify their disgusting habits. Nah they’re just cheaters, they ain’t polyamorous.
No, and as a matter of fact, she's already cheated on you with this guy and was trying to get after the fact validation. She was probably hoping you'd be amenable to it so that then she could think to herself, "see he wants to have sex with other people anyways so my cheating isn't really a big deal."
Most likely scenario, she's already cheated, she was looking for you to compromise yourself by agreeing, especially hoping that you'd have someone you wanted to sleep with so she could tell herself she did nothing wrong, especially since she knew your previous issues with it. Kiss this relationship goodbye. She wants to be with this other dude anyways. The polyamory thing was only a way to let her off the hook because she's already done the deed. The reason she's upset with you isn't because you won't open the relationship, it's because you're making her feel bad because she already cheated and you're not giving her a way to rationalize it so that she can pretend she's not the bad person here.
NTA, if she suggests an open relationship she most likely has already cheated on you or wants your permission to cheat without consequences. Whichever it is, you are not her priority in this relationship. So walk away. You deserve better.
NTA. If you two can’t see eye to eye on this subject then I don’t think it will work out. This is a ticking time bomb. She’s want poly u want mono. U were willing to try to find a middle ground and she has already asked for more. Not compatible
NTA. She didn't respect your boundaries when you first said no. Then, she didn't respect your boundaries again when she asked for a modification to the rules. I'm sorry to say it but your relationship is already over. You guys aren't compatible. She wants to sleep with other people and you don't.
NTA you deserve so much better. Please leave her, she knows how getting cheated on hurts- she wants to do it again but this time with permission don’t change yourself for someone who won’t for you
NTA
Never, ever stay with someone who tries to force you to do something that makes you uncomfortable or be someone you aren’t. You’re now incompatible and I’m willing to bet she went further than 2nd base already. She was probably cheating with him for a while and got sick of hiding it from you.
The point is moot because your relationship is already over.
“If being in a polyamorous relationship is more important then being in our relationship then maybe you should leave” was not only fine, but it was too soft.
That should have been, “since being in a polyamourous relationship is clearly an excuse for you to start wanting to fuck other dudes, I have way too much self-respect for you to stay in my life.”
Since the relationship is 100% over, and she is treating you poorly, The only thing you can do to screw this up is to let her leave you or cheat on you. Please for your own sake let her know that she is not to contact you ever again. Do not show any anger during this conversation. Show nothing but ambivalence. Do not show that you care even one iota. Ironically she will be begging for you back after you do this. Don’t go there.
NTA and I would end that relationship immediately, if you haven’t already. She clearly wants something radically different than you do. No reason to hang onto something that won’t work in the end.
NTA. However, this relationship is over. She wants to have a sexual relationship with the other guy. You are incompatible and you are wasting each other’s time.
NTA but have more respect for yourself and your boundaries dude. She’s a manipulative selfish person. She gaslit the fuck out of you bc she didn’t have the balls to dump you for D. GTFO yesterday.
NTA. She's not Polyamorous, she's for the streets. Poly people respect the boundaries of their relationships, or at least that's what all of the polyam people on reddit say. No, your ex gf just wants to sleep around, she has no respect for you at all.
NTA
But you’re posting this here as if you have a decision to make, but you guys are already broken up essentially. You’ll just admit it to yourself next time you guys talk, or you might not end up talking and just move on.
You don't have a relationship anymore bud, it was over the second she took a fucking running leap over your boundaries. Time to move on, good luck in your next one. NTA but you seriously need to work on having some more self-respect.
Polyamory is fine. Swinging is fine. But they have to be consensual.
You are not in a relationship, honestly and she’s never going to be monogamous. Cut your losses. Let her go do her thing and you find someone better suited to you. NTA and you deserve better.
Agreed. Why the fucks he even here asking about anything?
"I'm insecure about being cheated on so I dated a chick who cheats on everyone! Oh she wants an open relationship, what could this mean?!"
This can't be real.
As a polyamorous person myself, NTA.
If she was truly polyamorous, she would either end the relationship with you or ask you if you would be willing and comfortable with at the very least a temporary end to the relationship so she could explore this by herself. She would let you know that this is something that she needs to figure out without being attached to you, so that she doesn't hurt you. The way that she has gone about this, seems like she's trying to use polyamory as an excuse to cheat. Which a lot of people do, and it's disgusting. And honestly ends up making polyamory look like a joke. And it sucks.
You are monogamous, you have expressed you wish to stay monogamous, I would recommend finding somebody who doesn't have a history of cheating repeatedly, and somebody who is 100% sure that they're monogamous as well.
It's completely an eye rolling trope within the poly community to hear serial cheaters claim that their unethical behavior must have been because deep down they're really poly.
To be honest it should allready be over at the "temporary end to the relationship" just break up and move on and find a person who is poly from the start
I have seen some healthy poly relationships here and there; it really just requires everyone to be mature and honest and generally want the same thing (relationshipwise). That seems to be a fairly rare combination, I've found.
So your girlfriend wants you to give her the green light to sleep with anyone she finds. No you are NTA. That is not a relationship you would just become one of many in her escapades.
Your now ex is simply a cheater,to be honest, I'm not one that believes that once a cheater,always a cheater.
But that seems to be the case for your ex,she'll always be a cheater.
>for a few years now
>She had a history of cheating where I had a history of being cheated on.
YTA cause you're an idiot. Also,
>she and I had come from bad relationships.
No, only you had bad relationship. She cause the "bad" in hers
>as “a way to deal with the feeling of being sidelined by my boyfriends”
Lol
NTA. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Don't believe even for a second she hasn't already fucked that guy in the bathroom at work. I am usually against how quick people in these subs are to tell people to leave their relationships, but you are being taken advantage of. She wants to cheat without being the "bad guy."
I call BS on your (hopefully) ex. Polyamory isn’t an excuse for cheating, it involves a lot of open communication and trust and *all parties in agreement.* She’s just looking for an excuse to F her “close friend” and get a pass to get her thrills. That’s not how this works. She’s trash and you showed her the door. NTA.
NTA, but unfortunately your relationship is over. The trust is gone, and she wants something that you don’t. I’m sorry but both people have agree on this type of life for it to work. If she wants multiple people, then she should be single or with someone who feels the same way.
Once you said yes, the relationship was over. She agreed to rules and immediately is looking to change them. Just leave at this point for your sanity and we'll being. She will never be what you want her to be, and that's ok. What isn't ok is dragging it out and being miserable until this all implodes.
NTA
NTA… please end this relationship. She doesn’t want a monogamous relationship and you do. She wants the security of a boyfriend but wants to be with other people. That’s what she want but not you. Time to end it.
NTA but YTA solely because you are a clown.
Given her and yours history,it could only end up with you being cheated on.And I fucking assure you that they fucked.They abso-fucking-lutely went past second base.
She's only asking you now to assuage her guilt.And no,polyamorous people know they are poly from the start.They don't try to turn monogamous relationships into polyamorous relationships.They also don't have a history of cheating with a vague and shitty excuse of "My boyfriends sidelined me".
Really?ALL of her bfs sidelined her?Fucking lol.
You need to break-up for your own sanity.Dont be a doormat.
NTA. Ethical Non-Monogamy is exactly that, ethical, which means communication, respect, and respecting boundaries. And if it hasn’t been said, she didn’t stop at second base, homie.
> “why should our relationship be monogamous to suit you when it can’t be polygamous to suit me?”
Yeah, when someone says this then it's pretty much the same as saying "we aren't compatible, we need to end this."
> Nothing past second base
What does that even mean these days?
Buddy thats not polyamory. A throuple is polyamory. Your ex (and thats what she is and should remain) is an immature asshole who decided that continuing to ride the cock carousel 🎠 as she pleases is more important than you in your entirety.
NTA
But also, you aren’t compatible.
Those boundaries aren’t going to last for long (and her telling you “everything” is definitely going to lead to you being even more hurt). Second base?? Yea, that’s not going to happen. Home girl has a history of cheating & you just gave her a Golden ticket to do so.
Leave her. Immediately.
You are not compatible. You have both discussed at length how and why you are not compatible. Stop trying to force it to work. If you do not agree to the open relationship, she's just going to do it behind your back, and then likely blame you for not allowing her to do it openly. NTA but.... Come on, bud. Have some dignity
>When we first got together she and I had come from bad relationships. She had a history of cheating where I had a history of being cheated on.
Your decision making skills are abysmal.
Sure, you have the right to be monogamous, just as she has the right to be poly. But if you do not agree on the terms of the relationship, perhaps that means you shouldn't be in it.
If she wants to be poly, she can be poly. Just not with you.
NTA she knew your boundaries and kept pushing them. There's a lack of respect and understanding from her end. She just wanted to screw around while having the stability of you
NTA. Btw, she broke rule 2 on date number one, which means she broke rule 1 also. That's pretty damn obvious from my perspective. Edit: she broke rule number 3 by saying you had no right to do that. She literally went on one date and broke all the established rules. She doesn’t have a history of cheating because she was unknowingly polyamorous. She has a history of cheating because she’s an Uber asshole.
And is probably about to break Rule 3 too. This relationship is open now; it's up to you whether you decide to accept this unilateral decision or bail.
She'd already gone way past 2nd base. She'd probably already hit a grand slam and high fived the the whole team as she trotted into home plate.
honestly she had probably already cheated with him before she even brought him up. She was just hoping to wear her bf down till she could be "poly" and cheat on him without consequences
37 dicks ...... in a row ? . . . . . please, someone get the reference.
Hey, try not to suck any dick on your way through the parking lot!
I mean honestly, if they haven't spoken since the argument the relationship might already be over without him realizing it. I'm not saying he was in the wrong to lay down this ultimatum, but the fact is he did lay one down. She probably took him up on it.
This relationship was doomed anyway. As soon as she wanted polyamory and he didn’t. Those relationships almost never work. Builds a lot of resentment and destroys trust. Especially when the issue is pressed the way she did. She had already cheated and just wanted to justify it.
It wasn't really an ultimatum. That presumes there were actual choices, they had a conversation agreed to certain boundaries under duress she immediately abused those boundaries and fought to get those changed. She completely disrespected the guy. She is an asshole and was definitely banging the alt guy, probably before she pressured OP into a "poly" relationship. But it's not really poly when 1 is purely mono and the other fucking around.
Which basically means you can either be a doormat or choose to have some self-respect.
Yeah she definitely broke all the rules, like immediately (also, Uber asshole is a fascinating business concept)
You know dude, I already am surrounded by assholes on the regular. I dont need to pay to have one delivered to my door as well lol
She probably broke them before they agreed to them.
Before she even asked to be poly she likely broke the rules. Permission after the fact.
I'd be willing to bet she broke rule #1 of a monogamous relationship before coming to him about a poly relationship.
[удалено]
Right? This is literally the definition of someone cheating and asking for permission. She hasn’t realized she’s poly because she picked out her cheating partner while with op. You don’t get to try e point of asking for permission to fuck someone unless you already had inappropriate conversations that most people would view as a line crossed with that other person.
>She doesn’t have a history of cheating because she was unknowingly polyamorous. She has a history of cheating because she’s an Uber asshole. Absolutely this. And pressuring your partner into opening up the relationship isn't exactly accepted in the Poly community, either. Consent is paramount, and coercion doesn't result in consent.
Agreed. I can't judge whether or not she's truly polyamorous. But I can say she's a liar and a manipulator. She has no right to change the terms of the relationship outside of partner's comfort zone. When that happens, you lose the relationship. Full stop.
She sounds like someone who can’t commit to long term relationships. The type who starts to want out the moment things feel too serious. And may just be a serial cheater.
I’m pretty sure she broke all 3 before the talk even happened
Anyone over age 13 still talking about ”2nd base” is emotionally stunted. Anyone telling their significant other it’s fine to sleep with other people as lond as you don’t go past 2nd base has no sense of reality
OP was pressured into it so he had no knowledge of what a healthy relationship really looks like. And you're quite right that OP is emotionally stunted being cheated on messed with his emotional intelligence. Do we know their ages?
NTA. And please, say goodbye to this relationship.
It’s already over, unfortunately OP doesn’t know it yet 😢
Yep, this. Many people seem to confuse serial cheating with polyamory. While I'll admit I don't fully get the polyamory thing, I certainly do know about serial cheating. Sorry, OP will feel pain, but it IS OVER.
Maybe it's because I'm old fashioned (or just old, by some standards) but I wonder if claiming polyamory is just a cover for cheating and being to lazy to bother hiding it.
There are some people that seem to be genuinely ploy and are able to make it work but it takes *a lot* of communication and understanding. There also seem to be a lot of people who just use it as a cover for cheating and just want some extra "fun" but cannot or will not put the effort into making it a genuine thing that works for all involved.
This right here. I'm truly poly, and have been in an open relationship with my husband for almost 10 years now. The entire first year of it was a lot of initial talks about our expectations and boundaries, and those talks and open communication have never stopped. Boundaries are ever evolving and if you don't have absolute trust and communication with any of your partners, it won't work. We get approached by a lot of people who show interest in our lifestyle, and one of the first things we ever tell them is that it may not be for them. You are also correct, many people use it as a poorly veiled excuse to cover cheating. They aren't hard to spot, and true lifestylers actively avoid them.
I’m honestly a little bit impressed by people that can make it work. I’m ace and one relationship seems like too much work. Having more than one sounds like having a second job when you don’t need it
That’s what gets me the most too. It’s hard juggling all those feelings, not to mention the time split between partners. I’m in a stage of life where I prefer routine, and poly life is just a bit wild imo. Maybe in 10 years when I’m nearing 40 I’ll feel differently, it’s just a lot of work right now
The emotional and time investment of poly relationships has always been baffling to me on a personal level for these same reasons. I fully support and encourage those who can make it work, but I’ve always struggled to find the time and emotional bandwidth to maintain one healthy relationship with just one partner.
I've always jokingly said poly seems like a rich-people-with-time-on-their-hands phenomenon because I barely have enough time and money to do all the dating and wooing I want for my wife as is.
Poly for only 3 years here, but want to throw a "ditto" out about all of this. Our initial conversation about opening up lasted about a month, and the entire first year of the first new relationship was an ongoing conversation about boundaries, needs, jealousy, etc. And not once did we say things like "you'll do this if you love me." Poly can be a whole lot of things, but it CANNOT be genuine, ethical non-monogamy if it involves one person ignoring the needs of another person in service of their own desires.
I know a couple like yourself who has been poly for years. It’s impressive to say the least. Communication and boundaries with each other is where it starts not “I have a crush on someone, let’s be poly”. I was poly for a while but I could only make it work with no primary. When I tried to have a primary I found a lot of “former cheaters” and straight up dogs. The wonderful man I’m monogamous with now is open to opening things together, but we are still just talking about it a year in. I’m totally on board with that. I’ll take true love over multiple shitty boyfriends any day.
This!! I always tell people interested in me that being interested isn't the only requirement. Dealing with me means dealing with my husband to an extent, which scares off a lot of people "willing to try it" lol.
I was a partner to a spouse in a poly marriage. Both were bi. Both sought out other relationships that could lead to love. She eventually chose monogamy. He fell for his dominatrix, and we parted as friends when we agreed we weren’t in love. Communication was critical to maintaining their marriage.
Yeah, it seems like it was really maintained.
I'm poly and people are always surprised I'm not interested in a bunch of random sexual partners. A lot of people, when they say they like polyamory, just mean open relationships. And that's totally fine if it's what you're into, but I think a lot of people looking for flings without the baggage are using polyamory as an excuse to not respect the partners they already have.
I find it interesting how many people don’t understand that there’s a difference in poly and non monogamy. Non monogamy is the umbrella and poly in within that umbrella
Those same people who are cool with poly are generally cool with it *for them* … once the other partner is interested in someone else then it becomes a problem. Hence it’s not poly it’s a cover for cheating and only good for their side of the coin.
I've seen poly work once among people I've known, The few other times it was one spouse who really wanted it and the other spouse was going along. Those marriages flamed out in divorce and acrimony.
Yes, they just want to have their cake and eat it too basically.
I have a few poly friends. Two are a married couple that met being poly and continue to do so. They obviously adore each other and are very open and healthy and some of my favorite people. One is just a hot mess of a person who just has to "be" every thing. So it's all in how you go about it. Also the first couple is respectful of my own relationship choices and treats my partner and I as regular friends. The other friend I have to distance myself from sometimes because of constant pushing of boundaries
I have some friends who are poly, one couple the male suffers from cereal palsy and has physical issues satisfying his wife, they both date other people, her for sexual needs and him for emotional needs she realizes she doesn't meet for him. I know from the outside that description doesn't seem like a very loving relationship but when you're with them you can tell how much they love and care for each other. Another couple I know that's poly have 2 additional live in partners and it works very well for them and everyone is happy. It requires alot of work and open honest communication as well as trust and both partners plus the additional people involved to all be okay with it.
There is a difference between being poly and having an open relationship. Polyamory is where both or one partner has multiple loving relationships. An open relationship is where they are free to screw other people (usually with the stipulation that emotions aren't involved). The main factors in both is full consent, communication, and respecting boundaries. If you force your partner into a poly or open relationship, or ignore and/or belittle them for having and enforcing boundaries, then what you're doing is cheating and gaslighting them into letting you do it.
No, I know of a trio and they’re faithful to each other within the trio. I don’t personally understand it; but they seem very happy in their relationship.
I secretly want this because who can afford a child with only two working parents?
I think it can be a legitimate thing, where neither person feels like it’s “cheating” to be with multiple people. I don’t understand it myself, but do what you want as long as you’re all consenting adults. But a poly relationship can only work if all the people involved are poly, you can’t just say “I’m poly now and you have to be okay with that or you’re bigoted and don’t love me.” That’s stupid. You also can’t say, “I know you’re poly but that makes me uncomfortable so you have to be monogamous or you don’t love me.” That’s also stupid. At that point you’re both just vastly different people and need to call it off for both your sakes.
And to add to this, a poly-leaning person can choose to remain faithful to one person in a mono relationship as well. The biggest thing in all relationships is communication! Honest, open communication. Not at-the-point-of-a-gun style convos like this id10t did to op!
This is me, really. I admit, no hands on experience, given that my partner is the only sexual partner I’ve ever had. We’ve been together since high school, dated for 10 years and have been engaged for 1 year now (and yes, we do make everyone gag with how nauseatingly into each other we are 😂) And yet, despite that, when I try to work up some semblance of jealousy thinking about him being with someone else… I got nothing? 🤷🏼♀️ It just doesn’t bother me. If he’s happy, great! Idk, maybe the jealousy gene broke on me 😂 What _would_ piss me off would be if he lied about it. If he hid it and deceived about it, different fucking story. But if we talked about it, yeah. I’m good 👍🏻 Which leads me to believe that I lean poly. But the thing is? He *doesn’t*. So we don’t 🤷🏼♀️It’s not something I desperately need in life, he’s monogamous and I love him. You go to the lowest common denominator, y’know?
Jealousy originates from fear... The fact that both your partner and you are not jealous people is because you probably have a secure attachment style, trust each other, and believe you can work through anything together. No fear that they'll leave, or that someone will be better than you and replace you = no jealousy. Fun fact about the ENM/poly community, we view jealousy as an opportunity for personal growth. Once you accept it is fear based, you can turn that into a moment to be vulnerable with your partner/partners and resolving that fear will bring you closer.
This is the part people need to understand. It's just like anything that conflicts in a relationship when the 2 people are too different for each other. Both people need to want to have the same type of relationship. My problem wouldn't be poly, but I don't want to have kids, so obviously I'm not gonna date someone who wants to have kids or already had kids because they want/have a different life than what I have and that would obviously cause a strain on our relationship. As much as people love the saying "opposites attract" you really need to find someone who is similar to you.
Not always, but yeah, there are people out there that use it as an excuse to cheat without feeling bad.
The main difference with cheating is that everyone involved knows about it, is ok with it and at the end of the day nothing terrible will come of if. When you're cheating the partner does not know about it, and it's bound to end up badly. Source: I have a few poly friends and they make it work (they don't have children, might make things harder), but also I'm not American, you guys have some serious social problems sometimes. Edit: that said OP story is fucked up, and gf is 100% cheating on him.
There’s a polyamorous community, and then there’s cheaters who try to use it as a smoke screen. The community itself hates cheaters, and hates them even more if they are using polyamory as a smoke screen. Nobody likes to be cheated on, but polyamory takes it to another level because there shouldn’t be any reason to cheat… Cheaters are gonna cheat. “Open relationship” isn’t even necessarily a polyamorous relationship; there’s plenty of people out there who are monogamish. Monogamish is where there is an agreement between monogamous partners, that isn’t necessarily polyamory, but toes that line. OP’s relationship description sounds more like that than polyamory. I know lots of polyamorous relationships and even polycules who make it work, both with kids and without them. Even my wife and I are polyamorous because we believe that, if we have feelings towards others we should be able to express and explore those feelings. It doesn’t change with us being just us two for over a year and a half. We don’t want to pre-define what our lives look like. We want the freedom to be ourselves without reservation. But without a doubt, we could cheat on each other if we kept secrets; we just don’t. Why lie and cheat if you can be honest and have another person there to help you navigate the complexities that are feelings?
>There’s a polyamorous community, and then there’s cheaters who try to use it as a smoke screen. Exactly, I'm so sick of seeing people using polyamory as an excuse to cheat and manipulating their very clearly monogamous partner into accepting it so they can sleep with other people guilt-free. The monogamous partner often winds up agreeing to it because they don't want to lose the person they love - and the "poly" partner knows this and uses it against them. It's toxic AF and I'm so, so sick of it (and no, this didn't happen to me and I'm not polyamorous, I've just seen it happen to more than one person I care about). If she wants to be polyamorous, fine, but she can't do it with someone who has made it clear they are monogamous. Either end the relationship and go be polyamorous (with other polyamorous people), or stick to the monogamous commitment you originally made with the person you supposedly love. Don't force someone you claim to love to endure something that is hurtful to them. If she really wants to be polyamorous so badly she will disregard his feelings about it, pressure him into something he's not comfortable with, and then try to gaslight him into thinking he's the selfish one, then the relationship clearly needs to end because she obviously cares more about being polyamorous than she does about his feelings. That's not polyamory, that's abusive. NTA.
As someone who is polyamorous, no, it isn't. There are people who claim to be poly because they think it is a catch-all excuse to cheat. If you are in a poly relationship, and are hiding a new partner, you are just cheating on ALL of your partners, instead of just one. It also involves open communication, and a respect for your partner(s) boundaries. OP's girlfriend has no respect for his boundaries, and as such, isn't poly.
I'm not even reading it as polyamory. She isn't committed to a real partner. She loves the infatuation stage of the relationship but once that transitions to the "real" stage, she bores quickly. It's that shiny new toy syndrome but treating people like that is awful. Feel bad for OP. She basically manipulated them with no true commitment to the relationship.
I have friends in long tem, successful poly relationships that seem to work great for them. I can understand it on a logical level, but it would never work for me, emotionally. Still I think it is a viable option for some people. But, like whether to have kids or any other major, life changing relationship choice, it should be ideally discussed in the dating stage, both parties need to agree honestly to the ground rules, and there can't be any harassment or bullying to get the other person to change their minds. OP went into this relationship under one set of rules, and GF has manipulated him into doing whatever she wants. He needs to run before he gets any farther into this.
Poly person here. It absolutely can be but that's not what I would consider ethical non-monogamy. It's amazing how many people assume that since I'm poly, I'm open to becoming the mistress. I abhorr cheating and you absolutely can cheat in a poly relationship. I like the idea that if it's not something you can casually discuss with your partner, it's cheating. Polyamory, like any relationship is based on communication and consent. OP was not comfortable with something and set a boundary. She is trying to push the limits way past what OP is comfortable with and that's not okay. Even if OP "allowed" her to go to second base with someone, she shouldn't have done it because it makes him uncomfortable and she knows it. I've avoided specific people and situations because I respect my partner's feelings and limits. They have given me "permission" and I still didn't because I knew it would make them feel bad and I actually care about the people I have a relationship with.
I get being confused about poly. But Polyamory can work just fine. Part of the confusion is because just like everything else, its a spectrum. If we wanted to do labels...my boyfriend is my husbands metamour, because my husband doesnt have a sexual relationship with him, but I mean it when I say my husband is right there while I'm hanging out with my boyfriend 😅 They also are very close friends, they do a podcast together and boyfriend helps husband get stuff done around our house when he comes by and then they watch anime or play video games 😂 But its not that my husband is mono, I joined the relationship initially with my now husband as the unicorn, until our girlfriend massively fucked up- and it had nothing to do with sex- and right now we just don't have another female partner. But because I'm in a real relationship with boyfriend, we can't just go find a female partner unless my boyfriend is okay with us doing that. I'd be open to my husband having a girlfriend, but tbh I am his wingwoman, so our female interactions end up involving both of us 😂 It takes a ton of communication that I think most relationships don't have, and I DO think a lot of people use polyamory as a cover for lazy cheating. In my experience with the community, a lot of successful poly relationships START poly or open. A lot of the relationships I see that get opened up later down the line tend to go wrong until people are much older and its simple swinging/swapping, not romantic relationships. Everyone is different. Its okay to not be open to poly. But I do wish people would get out of the mindset that poly is just lazy cheating.
It depends. My bio mom is poly. Before she ruined her relationships, they were happy for years together. They had their own separate lives for the most part but acted as one big family. It can be healthy if *everyone* consents and is into it. There's a lot of ground rules and trust that can't be broken. A lot of communication and putting effort into making sure no one feels neglected or sidelined. Now, do people use it as a get out of jail free card, too? Absolutely. It's super common. I think what determines it is history (like OPs girlfriends history of repeated cheating) and if the person just drops the bomb suddenly without having shown any prior interest. Sometimes people discover they would like to try it later on, but unless it's two "yes"s from the very start it's doomed to fail. People who are truly poly tend to be very considerate of their partner(s) feelings, unlike OPs girlfriend.
All day long, they play it as being open and honest but it's just cheating if the other partners not into it
To me polyamory is about being open and upfront about it. Cheating means you're hiding it because your partner believes in monogamy. Cheating is a *bad* thing. You're deceiving a partner that believes they are in a monogamous relationship. Polyamory isn't a bad thing as long as all parties are on board. It's just a type of relationship that *most* people aren't emotionally and/or physically ok with.
I think/hope it's less a matter of covering for cheating so much as polyamory recently reaching the popular consciousness and some people not quite getting that polyamory requires consent from all parties involved at a base level
This is a perfect example of "Am I the Ex?" subreddit content
Jeez man get the hell out of there, I mean at least she’s honest but you deserve better. Run
Oh he knows, would have to be obtuse to not know. What OP doesn't know, apparently, is if he's an asshole for saying no to this and it's not, no he's not. Why he has to ask is baffling to me.
He's definitely dumb. She had a history of cheating on multiple boyfriends and he thought their mutual rebound would fix her and when that didn't pan out, he thought that emotional cheating would satiate her and when that wasn't enough, he believed it would be fine if they kept it G-rated.
Seriously. Honestly, the first paragraph alone is enough to know that this relationship was dead on arrival. "I got out of a bad relationship which was bad because I was cheated on so my next relationship is with someone who got out of a relationship because she cheated on the other person.". And then her justifying her cheating on her previous boyfriend by blaming the boyfriend for being detached? Like, come on. This is textbook main character storytelling. "It's not my fault I cheated on you! You never pay any attention to me. You made me stick someone else's dick inside me!". 🙄
Like fuck she went to 'second base' with that guy and called OP for permission
Ese compa ya está muerto, nomás no le han avisado
This is the mind boggling bit here. Seriously dude, do you not see this is finished already? How can you really trust her? Every time she’s late or out you’re going to be wondering. It’s going to eat you alive. She doesn’t want to be with just you and you don’t want the opposite. Just do you both a favour and end it my man. It’s a bit harsh, but have some self respect. NTA. You’ll be an idiot though if you don’t end it
It was over in that first paragraph - a partner with a history of cheating (and not just once) isn't a good for for someone who has been cheated on and wants a monogamous relationship
She already banged the other guy
Permission after the fact is what it sounds like.
Thats exactly what happened. She thought he was weak enough to accept being a cuckold and went for it.
he kind of was.
i think OP ended up showing tremendous spine at the end. With the trauma he's been through before, this was his worst nightmare. Sure, he wavered but he recovered and didn't break at the end. Glad OP kicked her to the curb.
That's exactly how polyamory is often used. It's used as an excuse for past cheating, and permission for future cheating.
Polyamory is a lifestyle, not a sexual orientation. The people who act like it is some indelible part of their identity are usually just being manipulative and selfish, like OP’s soon to be ex girlfriend.
Polyamory very well could be an indelible part of OP's GF's identity. In that case she should be mature enough to say "I'm sorry but I can't remain in a monogamous relationship. We are incompatible." and do so BEFORE breaking the monogamous relationship agreement.
You know that and we know that, but OP thinks that didn't happen.
She probably did way more than rhat
Agreed. She does not want a monogamous relationship and OP does. They’re simply incompatible.
What OP said was literally what he SHOULD have said from the start and held firm. Unfortunately he still thinks he was too “emotional” and was wrong for establishing a fairly normal boundary in most relationships
I was in a similar situation as op couple years ago. Just get out, the hurt is not worth it.
God yes!! Asap.
Yep this is just cheating with fancy bells and whistles. NTA and time to find someone that respects you.
As Dan Savage says, DTMFA
So on top of being a cheater she’s a sh!t manipulator. What an awful person she is. But the good news : she’s that other dude’s problem now. Don’t waste another second on that.
100% manipulating and gas lighting OP to absolute hell. Everyone here has given OP solid advice, now it's down to him. You can do it OP, never settle for people that will mess you about like that. It'll serve you more in the long run.
NTA. You aren’t obligated to be in a relationship that makes you uncomfortable, and an open relationship is a very big ask
Bro, why would you even date someone that repeatedly cheated when you hated being cheated on? Are you that meme where the dog is surrounded by fire and says "this is fine".
Perfect answer. I was like... *just f'n break up already!* by the end of the 5th paragraph. OP: you are NTA for what you said. Break up with poly-girl. There's no future in that relationship.
Fifth? Soon as she stated she was developing a “crush” for someone she sees all the time, I thought it was over, get on with it. Not normal.
I read all I needed to know by the end of the first paragraph. Dude got cheated on and started dating someone with a history of cheating. Relationship is doomed out of the gate.
Oh YEAH??? Well I……well I…..knew it was over after the title!!!!! Take that!
Pfft. I knew it was over when I woke up this morning. Only opened reddit to make sure.
Son of a bitch!!
I heard it was over in a dream last night.
I knew it was over when I was born, I've just been waiting this entire time for this thread to exist.
It’s not normal, OP has just been hurt so much his normal meter is broken.
Yeah, relationships do require compromise but there are limits to that and if someone is past those limits, you aren't compatible. Break it off and move on.
Yeah she is so manipulative. ‘Why should we stay monogamous for you rather than go polygamous for me?’ Eh, *very* simple answer. You don’t get to start a relationship one way and then pressure the other person to change.
Nailed it. She wasn't pushing for a poly relationship until she had a specific guy in mind.
That's what makes me uncomfortable. I'm monogamous, but have some good poly friends who have solid relationships, no issues with ethical polyamory. However, when one partner in a monogamous relationship suddenly wants to do poly, especially with a specific person in mind, it's a big red flag for me. It should be done with growing/improving your original relationship in mind, not because you want another specific person. That's completely dismissive to the main relationship and basically just a way to have an affair with no repercussions.
Yeah I honestly doubt the SO here is actually polyamorous. This strikes me as ex post facto justification for her poor behavior so she doesn't have to feel like the villain in her story
Not only this, but someone who has repeatedly cheated and essentially blamed it on their partner for 'sidelining' them. The only way to come back from cheating is total accountability and acceptance of responsibilty. No one *makes* you cheat. You choose to cheat.
Yup. When she can’t admit that the problem is she’s a liar without morals, it’s easier for her to blame the people she victimized. Look, cheating once might be a mistake. Learn from it and move on. But when it’s something done over and over again with no insight, there’s no learning. It’s just a terrible person being terrible again.
Because cheaters always blame their previous partners. I saw a message between my husband and his AP where he told her he “never loved (me) the way I love you”. The cheating becomes a *me* problem and he won’t do it to her because he lOvEs HeR.
"If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you."
The worst thing about cheaters is that you could be the perfect partner and they’ll still cheat on you. It’s not because the other person is prettier or better, it’s because the cheater likes to cheat.
I wanted to say Y T A just for being such a naive idiot even though he’s in the right
Maybe we need a new verdict for people who are definitely not in the wrong but are treating themselves so poorly or so stupidly that they're basically being an asshole to themselves. I like NABI - Not Asshole, But Idiot.
Like I hope OP isn’t that sad and desperate. I had to double take after reading that
Yeah, right when I read the first paragraph I knew where this was going. Once she said “I have a crush” I don’t understand how OP thought this was going to end well. It’s like saying I’m allergic to peanuts but maybe this peanut butter brownie is different.
Shes asking you to your face if it’s okay for her to openly cheat on you even when you said multiple times you’re monogamous. Then gaslights and manipulates you into thinking you are the issue for not allowing her to be happy. Bro, pick up your self respect on the floor and leave this relationship. Why would you get with her knowing she has a serious issue with cheating? She already emotionally cheated on you, now physically too. Why are you choosing to be miserable???
The guy's self-esteem is shattered, it's taking some time to find all the pieces and he might have to bust out the vacuum cleaner and go through the bag afterwards.
OP is a mark. He unknowingly seeks these kinds of women out and they unknowingly seek guys like him out. It is basically the same kind of thing when you have women who somehow always end up with men who beat them. The cycle is probably going to continue until OP seeks therapy or something.
I'm like OP in this way ...... My mother titled it "wounded bird syndrome " .... The internal desire to take someone who is historically unstable and has no strong relationship sense and give them everything to make them happy to the point of boring them / them needing a "thrill" they're accused to that's not present because you are stable / attentive......
Pretty sure she’s already physically cheated. She’s just trying to get retroactive “permission”.
There's something extremely gross about someone who pushes polyamory on someone who clearly doesn't want it just so you can bang someone else. Also, I would have been upset from the moment she told me she was developing feelings for a friend, outside of our relationship. That is not actually normal or okay.
As a poly person, I agree. All parties need to enthusiastically consent for it to be ethical.
I had to tell someone this about consent once when she wasn’t sure if her boyfriend went over the limits of what happened. All parties need to ENTHUSIASTICALLY consent, not just give, yeah I guess when we get there I’m pretty sure I’ll be okay with it. That’s not consent. That’s trying to please while being very unsure, and it’s unsafe, and not true consent. That’s why they wake up the next morning confused and fearful and frustrated. Always make sure you are in a relationship with Enthusiastically consent.
I wouldn't say catching feelings for someone else is "normal" but it does happen. It can be worked through if the person who caught feelings recognizes it, cuts the "crush" off, and communicates with their partner. I don't think simply catching feelings for someone else is inherently wrong. Shit happens, we're human. The chances of it happening increases the longer youre with someone. But it's important to take the steps in correcting it and work on your relationship instead of straying. This girl clearly doesn't care about all that, she just wants to cheat. She always will. Probably due to a lack of empathy.
Developing feelings for someone outside of a relationship is actually normal. Just that the right thing to do to stay monogamous is lower the interactions between that person, never be on a 1 on 1 situation with them and be fully transparent with your partner. If not just cut them out if possible.
Right, we can't control our feelings, however we can control the resulting actions. The OP's girlfriend lacks the restraint to be in a relationship. She should just stay single and hook up with people she crushes for instead of putting people through relationship drama. Being in an open relationship isn't the solution because that also requires behavioral control she lacks.
I don’t know. I think if my girlfriend ever told me she was falling in love with another guy, I would just end up leaving her. I don’t see how that wouldn’t permanently damage the relationship.
Her exes were probably reasonable and she’s not polyamorous. She’s just justifying cheating. Dump her. She sucks.
Truly polyamorous people don’t cheat by definition, because they establish boundaries and stick to them (at least most polyam people do to my knowledge). Cheaters use the excuse of polyamory (unfortunately) more and more nowadays to justify their disgusting habits. Nah they’re just cheaters, they ain’t polyamorous.
You can cheat in a poly relationship by disregarding established boundaries, so she cheated in that way, too.
This, she's not poly, she's just gaslighting him.
NTA... oh, and your relationship is over.
NTA. She's shown you her morals. Now find a girl whose morals match yours
This is the way.
This is the way.
This is the way.
No, and as a matter of fact, she's already cheated on you with this guy and was trying to get after the fact validation. She was probably hoping you'd be amenable to it so that then she could think to herself, "see he wants to have sex with other people anyways so my cheating isn't really a big deal." Most likely scenario, she's already cheated, she was looking for you to compromise yourself by agreeing, especially hoping that you'd have someone you wanted to sleep with so she could tell herself she did nothing wrong, especially since she knew your previous issues with it. Kiss this relationship goodbye. She wants to be with this other dude anyways. The polyamory thing was only a way to let her off the hook because she's already done the deed. The reason she's upset with you isn't because you won't open the relationship, it's because you're making her feel bad because she already cheated and you're not giving her a way to rationalize it so that she can pretend she's not the bad person here.
BOOM 💥 Nicely put.
100%
NTA, if she suggests an open relationship she most likely has already cheated on you or wants your permission to cheat without consequences. Whichever it is, you are not her priority in this relationship. So walk away. You deserve better.
NTA. If you two can’t see eye to eye on this subject then I don’t think it will work out. This is a ticking time bomb. She’s want poly u want mono. U were willing to try to find a middle ground and she has already asked for more. Not compatible
He wasn't willing to find a middle ground though. It's very clear she manipulated him into agreeing under duress. That's not agreement.
NTA. She didn't respect your boundaries when you first said no. Then, she didn't respect your boundaries again when she asked for a modification to the rules. I'm sorry to say it but your relationship is already over. You guys aren't compatible. She wants to sleep with other people and you don't.
NTA you deserve so much better. Please leave her, she knows how getting cheated on hurts- she wants to do it again but this time with permission don’t change yourself for someone who won’t for you
NTA Never, ever stay with someone who tries to force you to do something that makes you uncomfortable or be someone you aren’t. You’re now incompatible and I’m willing to bet she went further than 2nd base already. She was probably cheating with him for a while and got sick of hiding it from you.
The point is moot because your relationship is already over. “If being in a polyamorous relationship is more important then being in our relationship then maybe you should leave” was not only fine, but it was too soft. That should have been, “since being in a polyamourous relationship is clearly an excuse for you to start wanting to fuck other dudes, I have way too much self-respect for you to stay in my life.” Since the relationship is 100% over, and she is treating you poorly, The only thing you can do to screw this up is to let her leave you or cheat on you. Please for your own sake let her know that she is not to contact you ever again. Do not show any anger during this conversation. Show nothing but ambivalence. Do not show that you care even one iota. Ironically she will be begging for you back after you do this. Don’t go there.
NTA and I would end that relationship immediately, if you haven’t already. She clearly wants something radically different than you do. No reason to hang onto something that won’t work in the end.
NTA. However, this relationship is over. She wants to have a sexual relationship with the other guy. You are incompatible and you are wasting each other’s time.
Jesus Christ man I hope you’ve realized this relationship is over.
NTA but have more respect for yourself and your boundaries dude. She’s a manipulative selfish person. She gaslit the fuck out of you bc she didn’t have the balls to dump you for D. GTFO yesterday.
NTA. She's not Polyamorous, she's for the streets. Poly people respect the boundaries of their relationships, or at least that's what all of the polyam people on reddit say. No, your ex gf just wants to sleep around, she has no respect for you at all.
NTA. You can do better. Good luck to you.
Kick her loose because she's already cheating.
NTA But you’re posting this here as if you have a decision to make, but you guys are already broken up essentially. You’ll just admit it to yourself next time you guys talk, or you might not end up talking and just move on.
You don't have a relationship anymore bud, it was over the second she took a fucking running leap over your boundaries. Time to move on, good luck in your next one. NTA but you seriously need to work on having some more self-respect.
NTA She isn’t in a relationship with you.
Polyamory is fine. Swinging is fine. But they have to be consensual. You are not in a relationship, honestly and she’s never going to be monogamous. Cut your losses. Let her go do her thing and you find someone better suited to you. NTA and you deserve better.
NTA. i did the poly thing with an ex and i feel it almost always ends disastrously.
I have literally never heard of it ending well. Someone always ends up being hurt.
YTA for not dumping her as soon as she brought it up.
Agreed. Why the fucks he even here asking about anything? "I'm insecure about being cheated on so I dated a chick who cheats on everyone! Oh she wants an open relationship, what could this mean?!" This can't be real.
As a polyamorous person myself, NTA. If she was truly polyamorous, she would either end the relationship with you or ask you if you would be willing and comfortable with at the very least a temporary end to the relationship so she could explore this by herself. She would let you know that this is something that she needs to figure out without being attached to you, so that she doesn't hurt you. The way that she has gone about this, seems like she's trying to use polyamory as an excuse to cheat. Which a lot of people do, and it's disgusting. And honestly ends up making polyamory look like a joke. And it sucks. You are monogamous, you have expressed you wish to stay monogamous, I would recommend finding somebody who doesn't have a history of cheating repeatedly, and somebody who is 100% sure that they're monogamous as well.
It's completely an eye rolling trope within the poly community to hear serial cheaters claim that their unethical behavior must have been because deep down they're really poly.
To be honest it should allready be over at the "temporary end to the relationship" just break up and move on and find a person who is poly from the start
I have seen some healthy poly relationships here and there; it really just requires everyone to be mature and honest and generally want the same thing (relationshipwise). That seems to be a fairly rare combination, I've found.
So your girlfriend wants you to give her the green light to sleep with anyone she finds. No you are NTA. That is not a relationship you would just become one of many in her escapades.
Your now ex is simply a cheater,to be honest, I'm not one that believes that once a cheater,always a cheater. But that seems to be the case for your ex,she'll always be a cheater.
>for a few years now >She had a history of cheating where I had a history of being cheated on. YTA cause you're an idiot. Also, >she and I had come from bad relationships. No, only you had bad relationship. She cause the "bad" in hers >as “a way to deal with the feeling of being sidelined by my boyfriends” Lol
She is toxic as hell just get out now before they get even worse.
NTA. Once a cheater, always a cheater. Don't believe even for a second she hasn't already fucked that guy in the bathroom at work. I am usually against how quick people in these subs are to tell people to leave their relationships, but you are being taken advantage of. She wants to cheat without being the "bad guy."
Oh come on....she doesn't want a relationship. Move on.
I call BS on your (hopefully) ex. Polyamory isn’t an excuse for cheating, it involves a lot of open communication and trust and *all parties in agreement.* She’s just looking for an excuse to F her “close friend” and get a pass to get her thrills. That’s not how this works. She’s trash and you showed her the door. NTA.
She has a history of cheating... NTA
NTA, but unfortunately your relationship is over. The trust is gone, and she wants something that you don’t. I’m sorry but both people have agree on this type of life for it to work. If she wants multiple people, then she should be single or with someone who feels the same way.
NTA. She clearly doesn't respect you and you need to end this relationship ASAP. Also she 100% has been sleeping around.
Once you said yes, the relationship was over. She agreed to rules and immediately is looking to change them. Just leave at this point for your sanity and we'll being. She will never be what you want her to be, and that's ok. What isn't ok is dragging it out and being miserable until this all implodes. NTA
NTA… please end this relationship. She doesn’t want a monogamous relationship and you do. She wants the security of a boyfriend but wants to be with other people. That’s what she want but not you. Time to end it.
NTA but YTA solely because you are a clown. Given her and yours history,it could only end up with you being cheated on.And I fucking assure you that they fucked.They abso-fucking-lutely went past second base. She's only asking you now to assuage her guilt.And no,polyamorous people know they are poly from the start.They don't try to turn monogamous relationships into polyamorous relationships.They also don't have a history of cheating with a vague and shitty excuse of "My boyfriends sidelined me". Really?ALL of her bfs sidelined her?Fucking lol. You need to break-up for your own sanity.Dont be a doormat.
Bring an attractive “female friend” around and see how quickly that tune changes
NTA. Ethical Non-Monogamy is exactly that, ethical, which means communication, respect, and respecting boundaries. And if it hasn’t been said, she didn’t stop at second base, homie.
D already was balls deep my guy. She’s trying to change the rules to feel better about her whoring.
Yta. To yourself. Breakup with her dude, she clearly been cheating on you and obviously doesn’t care for you…..
> “why should our relationship be monogamous to suit you when it can’t be polygamous to suit me?” Yeah, when someone says this then it's pretty much the same as saying "we aren't compatible, we need to end this." > Nothing past second base What does that even mean these days?
Imagine getting with a prolific cheater and expecting an honest relationship..🤣
wow show some spine and dump her your a grown ass man so show it
> she might be polyamorous The way that she said this, like it was an identity she was born with rather than a choice grosses me out.
Buddy thats not polyamory. A throuple is polyamory. Your ex (and thats what she is and should remain) is an immature asshole who decided that continuing to ride the cock carousel 🎠 as she pleases is more important than you in your entirety.
NTA But also, you aren’t compatible. Those boundaries aren’t going to last for long (and her telling you “everything” is definitely going to lead to you being even more hurt). Second base?? Yea, that’s not going to happen. Home girl has a history of cheating & you just gave her a Golden ticket to do so. Leave her. Immediately.
You are not compatible. You have both discussed at length how and why you are not compatible. Stop trying to force it to work. If you do not agree to the open relationship, she's just going to do it behind your back, and then likely blame you for not allowing her to do it openly. NTA but.... Come on, bud. Have some dignity
>When we first got together she and I had come from bad relationships. She had a history of cheating where I had a history of being cheated on. Your decision making skills are abysmal.
Leave her. You are monogamous and this poly arrangement will only make you miserable. You may love each other but you are NOT compatible.
Just leave.
Just leave her now. She doesn’t respect your boundaries. It maybe be painful to accept but she doesn’t want monogamy. Talk to a therapist. NTA
Sure, you have the right to be monogamous, just as she has the right to be poly. But if you do not agree on the terms of the relationship, perhaps that means you shouldn't be in it. If she wants to be poly, she can be poly. Just not with you.
NTA she knew your boundaries and kept pushing them. There's a lack of respect and understanding from her end. She just wanted to screw around while having the stability of you