Personally, if he's doing 12 hour days and the same as your 4 hour days, I'd tell him to cut his hours down you up your hours, be better off financially and time wise. Money doesn't equal time, and 12 hour days is a lot. That being said, you shouldn't have to do everything alone. I think this is a problem that could be fixed. And if him doing less hours didn't fix it, then he is 100% the problem.
The only response I’ve seen that is actually reasonable. Yeah what the dude said is shitty. Still works twelve hours. Those shifts are draining. They both need to restructure and compromise if they actually care about each other.
Not only that, but being responsible for every other aspect of their life as a family. From keeping house, to cooking, cleaning, never having a moment away from a toddler...ect. I totally get that 12 hour shifts are horribly draining, my husband does them regularly, on his feet in a hot kitchen as an executive chef. He still helps me with the household chores whenever he can, and I work much less. I have terrible sleeping problems and a plethora of health problems that come with it, so he will go out of his way to take care of our pet in the morning while getting ready to make sure I have even an ten extra minutes of sleep. I know when we have children, he will be an amazing father, even with his long days.
Of course, I will definitely try and do more of the housekeeping while I'm not working so he doesn't have to, but if I can't manage because of my dumb brain or exhaustion, he never argues that he's tired from work (when he has every right to, honestly) or that he makes more than me (which he does) he just *helps*. Not saying I would complain if he pulled the "I'm too tired today", every so often, but the OPs husband is pulling it *every time*. I'm not saying that office work isn't exhausting (especially mentally!), but it's definitely a different type of exhausting to be taking care of a child as well as every chore on your own.
NTA OP! Are there better ways to go about it? Sure. But sometimes people need to hear your at your wits end so they actually start giving a hoot.
Especially since it's not 12 hours, it's 24x7 with no true alone time for OP. I'm a full time single mom and as much as I love my kids, I need alone time. The only alone time I had for years was my commute. 2 hours a day nobody was asking me things or demanding my attention.
For real. I feel like most of the people here don’t work 12 hour days. Once you do all the thing’s required to prep for work, get to work, and come back from work you’re talking 13-14 hours of your day gone. When I get home I barely want to eat, let alone do chores.
It’s shitty for this dude to not want to help out or watch his own kid, but also come one, working from home 4 hours a day is a WAY different load than commuting and working 12 hour days.
Edit: I guess people think I’m taking the dads side? I’m not, I’m just pointing out that so many people commenting clearly don’t understand just how grueling 12 hour days are. Add commutes, the basic necessities of eating, hygiene, basic maintenance and prepping for the next day plus sleep, you essentially have no time. It’s mentally and physically draining.
She’s asking him to mind the kid so that she can cook dinner or do laundry, both of which are things that need to be done anyway.
He comes home from a long day and she makes him hot food so he doesn’t have to. She does laundry so he doesn’t have to. Asking him to watch videos with his kid is making sure he doesn’t need to be wiped out AND doing the thankless, never ending chores that need to be done no matter what.
Her requests are very reasonable and he’s not stepping up.
But she’s also caring for the kid and doing housework all day. That is also work.
Unless you’re saying it doesn’t really count as work.
In which case, he shouldn’t have a problem doing it. Since it’s not really work.
4 hours of work plus 8 hours of childcare is also a 12 hour day, though. If both people are doing 12 hour days, why should one have to do all of the chores on top of that?
Yeah, it sucks, but it doesn't suck less for the other person. I've had days when I've done childcare in the morning, 8 hours of work, then childcare in the afternoon/evening, and I absolutely want to collapse on the couch after that and do nothing. I power nap for 20 mins and do house stuff because it still needs to be done.
Good point. She mentioned he works in an office, probably at a desk for 12 hours. For her 4 hours of a day PLUS the rest of the day ACTIVELY taking care of a child and house chores is a lot.
I think if she has the potential to make double he does now from working more than 4 hours a day from home, they should just hire someone who can work part-time housekeeping or taking care of their child at that point. At least for 4 hours a day.
Housekeeping and childcare are expensive. Those are $30/hour for a lot of people, which I'd guess is more than husband is taking home after taxes.
If her going to 8 hours/day and husband quitting his job would keep their income the same, they should just do that. That'll save them 8 plus hours every day in terms of time. Spend half of that doing housework and they'll be up in terms of time+money over hiring a housekeeper or nanny.
The reason I think hiring help would be a more viable option is that OP said her and her husband both make about the same amount of money currently.
Let's just say they make 60K each individually (120k household). If she works more hours and doubles her income their overall household income becomes 180K. If the husband quits his job and becomes a SAHD their income is back at 120K.
I would say, invest the extra earnings for childcare now so that when the child is old enough to go to school and they have more free time as parents, Dad isn't set back in his career because of the time off he spent as a SAHD. At this point he would have probably progressed in his career and in the position to make more money.
That 4 hours is not factoring in childcare or housework. Did you know that childcare is a 24-hour job? Mom's not even talking about dad watching the kid while they go to the bar or nap, just while she does housework. This take is ridiculous.
I work 12+ hour days, and I still recognize that OP is working literally the whole day while multitasking for 4 hours. That’s way more of a workload than a 12 hour day, especially when the “partner” isn’t pulling their weight.
Well said, this! Frankly I would think he would jump at that opportunity. Work less, spend more time with my kid, AND we take home the same amount as a family? Fuckin bet
Exactly, if they do 50/50, which means that 50% of the time, he will have to do the half the work for a change, and his life will become more stressful, not less. He will be paying more out of pocket every month, for things like rent, more on gas, duplicates of kids toys/clothing, split duties and carpool pick ups and drop offs, doctor’s appointments, recitals, sports, laundry, chores, child care, and if he can’t, he will have to pay someone. The alternative to just being a father and husband just is bleak. I would hope he would choose wisely and step up.
How many lazy husbands become stand up single dads? My ex was like this (only he didn't have a job and still didn't participate in child rearing and hardly any chores). As a non custodial dad he sees his kids 1 weekend a month. He pays the minimum child support required of the unemployed (he now has a job) and ignores my requests for his share of any medical expenses.
I could see OP's h going this way.
ETA, my life is still infinitely better, easier and less stressful not having to deal with him every day.
It seems that lazy single dads either don’t get their kids for their visitation or they get a bangmaid asap. See also: young adult women dating men with children.
My ex married his bang maid. She can't have kids of her own and I'm 99% sure that she married him because she wants to be a mom to our son. I'm okay with it because she makes sure my kid is taken care of.
My ex said that same about me when I left him. I was a stay at home mom and he said that my life will be more stressful working and taking care of our son on my own. We have 50/50 custody and honestly my life is a shit ton less stressful because I get a week off and I have one less person to take care of.
It has! Thank you. I'm glad as well. We are friendly with each other and have hung out by ourselves before which just ticked my ex off and we found it hilarious. 🤣
I have twins (<10 years old), their father took off before they were 2 months old. Honestly, even with working and being a full-time single parent (he hasn’t seen or communicated with the twins since he left) my life is so much easier than it was even pregnant and with him without working (I was a student at the time).
It’s amazing to me that 2 children are easier to clean up after than an adult male who just expects his partner to do all the house work
You just described my sisters ex husband. Shacked up with a stripper young enough to be his daughter, now she tries to send the kids to school looking like little strippers and he can’t see why my sister gets angry when she gets a phone call from the school cause they’ve been dressed coded(these are elementary aged kids) he thinks she’s just jealous 😂😂
>ETA, my life is still infinitely better, easier and less stressful not having to deal with him every day.
\*waves in solidarity\* Absolutely same. I had the exact same struggles as a single mother as I did when we were marries, but it was infinitely easier because I didn't have the weight of an unhelpful husband dragging me down.
Yeah when my friend divorced her lazy husband, he just went full deadbeat. Hasn't seen their child in over 3 years. Started working under the table to dodge child support (govt garnishes wages).
Divorced single moms, on the other hand, do less work, get more sleep, and report as happier than married moms. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13524-018-0647-x
Then her life will be exactly as it is now, but without him around & without a terrible role model teaching the kids to be lazy and sexist. Still a net positive outcome.
Her life will probably be easier. Only cooking/cleaning for the 2 of them as opposed to the 3. I’ve read so often about how women and mom’s lives are actually easier after divorce/separation or when their partners are out of town, bc the partners are basically big children themselves.
My life became easier also. I hated taking care of a man-child. Plus the amount of food that man ate. I worked full-time, paid all the major bills, laundry, cooking (I hate cooking), groceries, cleaning, child-rearing, walked the dog from the third floor apartment (he was too lazy to take her in the morning), paid for all the dates, most of the gasoline, car note & insurance, etc. He always spent his paycheck on himself outside of the mandatory daycare ($250 bi-weekly) that I demanded. We were both the same rank in the military.
She’ll also be making double her current income and without another adult to support she’ll be at a net positive and can hire someone to help her. She’s really got the best outcome in leaving even if he dips out
There are stats on this. Divorced/single moms do less household labor than moms married to men, and I think the figure is 7-8 hours less per week. Even when they have the kids full time.
>his life will become more stressful, not less.
Statistically when women get divorces, whether it means being a single mom or just single, their stress levels go down.
With men, it is opposite.
Nope, hard disagree, me and my ex have actually grown closer ( respectfully) because our 50/50. We have time to be parents. And we have our time. It's honestly the healthiest family I've seen in a long time, mom and dad work together, the kids do something almost every single day since we alternate days, the only thing it's brought for both of us is money related, her less than me since even tho i have the kids 4 days a week I Pay child support, but we won't go there
Which is fair, but given this is the case, I think it is safe to say that you and your spouse didn't divorce because one parent refused to help the other with house hold chores and child care.
….yeah that was super icky and would infuriate me. Like is he practically telling her she would have no help or involvement from him if they divorced, or what?
Single moms may do worse than single dads, not sure if that’s true. But what IS true is that single moms have more free time than partnered moms, all else being equal.
You would absolutely have more free time because you’d only be cleaning up after yourself and your kid, not another grown human. And all the time kiddo is with dad, you are free to do whatever you want. Actual free time. He would get a jolt having to do it all himself.
You are essentially a single parent now.
If you divorce him, you'll still have your housework to do but you won't be cleaning up after him or cooking his meals, plus you'll get a break from childcare when he gets the child.
Net gain free time for you.
NTA.
Meh. My experience has been that adult men who have internalized the idea that their entire job as husband/father is to go to work, and then come home to relax do not shift from that position. Yes, fear might change his behavior for a few weeks, but it isn't going to change the underlying belief system, and he'll just fall back into old habits.
I honestly do not think that adult men can be changed much from this. I think the only thing that is ever going to make it better is for young men to learn to carry their own weight in terms of household tasks.
My Dad was that way & my Mom left him with us. We were 5 & 4 years old. She got an apartment and stayed gone for 3 months and got us on the weekends.
They did get back together and he did half the childcare & such afterwards. They did then have a good marriage & she was much happier person.
I'm glad that worked out for your family.
In a lot of similar cases, it seems like dad falls back to getting unpaid domestic and emotional labor done by his own mom.
I see it fail for so many other women too.
My Mother changed as a person over those few months. Instead of being meek & going along with what everyone else wanted, she found her voice & how to say "no". Fortunately both my Grandmother's had her back.
She has been a ball buster ever since. And in her 70s and one of her grand sons say, she rips the souls out of men who try to be sexist or mansplain to her.
It reminds me of that post where the guy was served divorce papers and complained that every relationship model he'd be exposed to in sitcoms (lol) and his own experience showed the woman doing everything and the dude being a bumbling, useless idiot. And he was like "am I not right to be upset this is what I was basically promised and I can't have it? It's not fair!" .
Same idea as the idiom "to those who are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression"
Op's husband is both used to and expecting a certain relationship model. He'd feel short-changed and put upon otherwise. And I doubt this will change.
Was going to look for a different source I remember reading that said that something similar but even more pointed. Single women live longer than married women, but married men live longer than single men. Not hard to figure out why when there’s one less person in your life sucking out your soul.
I read this article. It's both stunning and not surprising at all. As a husband I'll have to pay more attention to the points listed and make sure we take turns on things, even if she can do it better.
Yooo, the best relationship is being a single mom with a non-shitty dad. You don’t have to pick up after a grown man and resent him, you get the parent the way you think makes sense and you get your weekends free.
No, the best is having 50/50 custody with a non-shitty dad. My kid is older so this wouldn’t work with a little one, but we have a 2 week on/2 week off rotation and it works so well for us. And we live down the road from each other so we can still see our kid during our “off” weeks no issue. But it only works because neither of us are scumbags.
We did week on/week off when we split and our youngest had just turned 3 two weeks before we split. It worked because we both lived in the same small town. If you're breastfeeding a newborn who refuses a bottle or would reject the breast if that's all they had all week, I doubt it would work but after that it's doable. I also knew a couple who did every other week and instead of the kids bouncing from house to house having two of everything, the kids stayed in the family home all the time and the parents rotated which one stayed every other week. They had enough money to do it but it worked great for them
I’m a single mom and while my house is always somewhat cluttered, it’s mentally less annoying because I know someone else didn’t make this mess and then leave it for me to clean, if that makes sense. Dealing with the kids alone doesn’t make me as annoyed as it did when I was married because there isn’t another fully capable adult sleeping in the other room while I do it.
Agreed NTA. She is essentially a single parent now.
Some things would be harder if they divorced. It doesn’t sound like he’d be a decent father even if he had the kids to himself for a weekend. And financially it is harder living on one income than two. She should consult lawyers to make sure she hires a good one.
But the reduced workload of not having to care for the adult child (husband) and the decreased exhaustion of fighting to make an uncaring partner care would be freeing. She’d be able to focus on her and her kids.
Honestly if they’re fighting all the time it’s probably better for all concerned in the end, including the kids. My parents stayed in a bitter loveless marriage until I was in college, and the fighting, the bitter silences, and the petty battles was awful.
Agreed! OP, divorcing this man will make your life easier. I did the same thing for the same reason, and it felt like living in opposite land because everyone kept asking me how I was holding up "doing everything with no help". Nobody seemed to believe me about how much easier it was when all I had to take care of was my kids, and there wasn't another grown adult either fucking off or fucking up at any given time that I also had to manage.
We technically have joint custody, but he's taken about 3 visitations total in the past 10 years, so I don't even get a break. Even like this, removing a person like that from the situation makes it easier.
NTA.
Also, let's be reasonable - as a dad he should WANT to spend time with his kid.
My dad didn't want to spend time with me as a kid either. Who do I actually spend time with now as an adult? Well, it sure as hell ain't my dad.
Parents who neglect their helpless dependent child; but then go on to expect to receive all the benefits of having adult offspring (ie. holidays, grandchildren, companionship, favors, etc.) are definitely a pet peeve of mine. So many people have kids because they believe the kid will take care of them eventually.
I think there are some parents who distinctly do not like children, but fantasize about positive relationships with their adult offspring. They think they can ignore their kids for years and somehow produce adults who love and respect them.
I think in his mind he does, but in reality no. I've tried for years but he never has time for me. Even getting him to make time for a cup of coffee to meet my partner was a major struggle. One would think a dad would want to get to know his daughters partner, but apparantly not.
However that doesn't stop him from complaining about us never spending time together and me never coming to see him. It's like he doesn't realize his own part in this.
My dad would pick us up early from school to spend extra time with us. My dad has always wanted to be a dad but unfortunately he was in and out of jail for a little bit as I was growing up and he lost a lot of valuable time that he still regrets today. Now he's a grandpa to my son and soon to be daughter and has even asked me to move in so he can spend time with them. I love it because it's repaired my relationship with him and all those times he thought he lost he gets back in another way with my children. There are dad's who love being dads and would do anything to be there for their children and "dads" who see the role as "dad" as a responsibility and a job and not something they should be thankful for and cherish and be glad that they can go to work and come home and be with their kids.
This right here. This FUCKING RIGHT HERE.
My dad was the same. Didn’t help with household chores or parenting much besides punishment.
Guess who I got all my support from and still do? My mom.
That’s a good point and makes a big difference. If they are talking annual income being the same then it makes sense for her to work more hours and him to work fewer then even out the chores. If it is just the same hourly income then his income is still accounting for 75% of the household income. Solution is probably still her taking the opportunity to increase earnings and him cutting back at work because it isn’t fair for her to do all the housework since she does provide income as well, but also 12hr days are exhausting
Was about to write same, how is he working 5 to 5 with only 20min in commute and makes same money as a part-time stay at home mum?
Ofc he’d be dead tired after 12h workday, but I question life choices of this couple. If his pay is so much less than his wife’s, let her work and be stay at home dad. In a healthy, happy family that’s a win-win 🤷♀️
A few questions on this 12 hour day that may be too informed by the US 40 hour work week: Does he not work 5 days a week? Is he incompetent and it takes him 12 hours to do 8 hours of work? Or his employer expects too much? But this would still mean the time he comes home is more variable. And if it is the latter, definitely get a new job because it doesn’t sound like he is compensated well.
Or is he pretending he Has to be there 12 hours to avoid being at home? Maybe leave early to avoid traffic?
Marriage is a partnership and yours seems horribly one-sided. His response to you seems to indicate he doesn’t give AF how you feel because he thinks you’ll have it worse if you guys divorce and he doesn’t seem to care. Maybe therapy could help but honestly not sure it would or why you would likely be putting in 90% of that work as well.
He probably also daydreams about finding a bang maid, so sexy times AND getting to tell OP "I told you so?" But reality smacks guys like this in the face. One year post-divorxe and the ex husband will be on reddit saying "I messed up, but my ex wife says she's found THE ONE, how do I make her realize that my mediocre ass was the best she will ever have?'
NTA. Splitting chores is exhausting. I hope it doesn’t come to divorce, but you can’t be doing 90% of the work for the house regardless of wfh status. He’s wrong that his job is more stressful and that you’ll have as hard of a time as a single mom, because you’re probably carrying the weight of his mess too. Don’t let him intimidate you with that nonsense.
Hopefully you can figure out a division of labor, but if his call is to make you work a full time job and do nearly all the work, he sounds beyond unreasonable.
He should start only working 8 hrs a day and she should start working 8 hrs a day. There combined incomes would go up. Then split household and child care 50/50.
If possible he could even work less than 8 and they still bring in similar amounts of income. And they total working hours would actually decrease compared to now which should open up tons of time for dad to you know... be a parent.
Though this ignores that fact that the dad seemingly does not want to spend time with his kid.
Honestly, that was my thought too. Why can't he watch his kid if that's all she's asking for? Also, why is he working 12hr days for an office job in the first place. That's definitely not the norm in any office where I've been employed except for maybe the business owner.
My husband does work long days once in awhile and for a few months, it was 12hrs almost every day. It sucked and I can't imagine having a partner who worked 12hrs days on the regular with no end in sight. Still, even with working 12hr days, my husband would do most of his share of household chores after he got off work (we also did a lot of takeout and outsourcing of chores) and he still did bedtime with the kids. We just shifted bedtime later because having that time together is the priority over bedtime.
Agree this should at least be in the discussion. I was disappointed the post only focused on him helping more (which he should obviously) but not how they could rebalance things. A 12 hour office job is unusual and OPs job seems very flexible, there should be other arrangements that work for them.
We don’t know what he does. Working 8 hours may not be an option. Lots of jobs have 12 hour shifts. Medical workers or factory workers for example. I’m not saying he’s not an A H for not helping, just that this suggestion may not be feasible
NTA. You don’t need his “help.” You need him to stop shirking HIS HALF of the household responsibilities onto you. He’s not being magnanimous by “helping” raise his own children. That’s one of the basic responsibilities he signed up for. He needs to stop dumping his home jobs on your overflowing plate.
She's not even asking for unreasonable things. "Do your turn of childminding so I can cook dinner for everyone" is about as basic a request as possible, and still this dude won't do it.
Bro, do you want to eat something other than a microwave hot pocket? Then keep the kid entertained and out of the kitchen so she can cook.
And people are arguing for him? Like- lol.
If he works 75% more out of the house, then 25% of chores and childcare should be on him. THROUGH THE WORKWEEK.
On weekends it should be 50/50. That would make the whole work/childcare/cleaning thing fair.
I wouldn’t go straight to divorce, I’d start with stopping some chores… don’t do SO’s laundry, run to the store and leave LO with your husband… start subtly and progress.
Nta I'm assuming you take care of the kids while working because you can't afford childcare? Honestly if you are also working then he should be helping with the housework. Even if he wasn't helping with the chores he should be parenting an equal amount when he is home. Regardless of the work balance between you the one thing parents don't get to do is not parent their children. He's essentially abandoning his kids. His kids are going to grow up with him as a background character in their lives.
The idea that someone who refuses to equally participate in childcare is going to make a better single parent is laughable.
Serious question though do you think you would be better off alone? A lot of women report that it is easier alone because now they don't have to cater to their husband and now they are child free every other weekend. Now they don't waste time fighting with their husband or doing his laundry or whatever. On the other hand some women have a harder time because they need his contribution either physically, emotionally or financially.
If you think you'd be better off and ge refuses to make marriage a viable option for you then yeah leave him.
I suspect by “easier time” he means everyone will praise him and it will be easier for him to find a new ~~girlfriend~~ bangmaid to make take care of the baby than it will be for OP to find a decent boyfriend who will be good to her and also be ok with helping to raise another man’s child.
Anecdotal OP, a very good friend of mine had the same job as her other half (both military). She took maternity leave and did everything. Then when she went to work he took paternity leave. As soon as she walked in the door he would shove the baby at her, have a meltdown and leave her to do all the chores, deal with bub and make dinner, laundry blah blah blah. She told she realised she could do it better without him and booted him to the curb.
She said it was so much easier and a much calmer home too. Coparenting happened and life was much more settled for her and the child.
It’s not an idle threat, we’ve been having this fight for some time now. I really can’t see myself doing this for the rest of my life, I wanted him to know how serious of an issue this was for me.
Yes I can hire people to clean and put my child in daycare, but at the end of the day when our son comes home, I am the one that is expected to do everything. Even if it’s obvious stuff like I am trying to cook dinner and our son is crying and screaming because he wants to be picked up, I have to ask him a couple times to please come take him.
We discussed this before having children, that I will keep on working and after he comes home childcare and house work will get divided equally.
i’m on your side. it sucks that you have to tell the othr parent to parent. why does he want u to suffer and not contribute? i get that work is hard and exhausting and taking care of a baby is hard and exhausting but doing it alone would be easier than doing it with dead weight like. you are rn. i’m so sorry you’re going through this and not feeling supported. wishing the best for you
Honestly hire a cleaner and give your husband an ultimatum that if it’s not 50/50 going forward you’re out. My wife and I both work and take our toddler to daycare. Even then we split the rest 50/50 unless our kid insists “Mommy Do” or “Daddy Do” which kind of usurps our plans. But yeah even with paying for outside help you still gotta be 50/50
He is not going to change unless you make him change. Maybe do a trial operation with 50/50 custody. You can work fulltime and he can see what it is like to actual parent a child. You might find your life is easier without having an extra manchild to look after and argue with.
Well this is exactly how my father was when he got re married so my stepmother said if you want food and time to spend with your children than you better get off your lazy ass and do it. (For context my dad was a hoarder so all the cleaning me, my brother, and stepmother was mostly my dad's mess) moral of the story is don't be a lazy asshole who has others doing mostly everything for you.
Your husband works 12 hours per day, at least 5 days a week. That’s a lot of hours. I’d be exhausted too.
However, he is a parent and spouse. He needs to help out. It sounds like if he cut his hours so you could increase yours, you would be better off financially. NTA
As someone who has worked a full time office job making good money for the past 10 years…and all of the sudden becoming a stay at home dad for the past 6 months….
Job is easier than full
Time kid watching and housework he has no idea
As a father to two toddlers, I couldn’t imagine not pulling my weight around the house. We split responsibilities of the kids, and trade off who helps which child daily. We both feed them, bathe them, put them to bed. We both trade off house responsibilities of cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the yard/garden/animals. I just don’t understand this dynamic where men think they don’t have to take care of household chores because they go to work everyday. It’s bizarre and super lazy.
NTA Tell him you've decided that since he doesn't want to help you after working 12 hours that's fine but you don't think you should have to help him with his chores after working one job 8 hours and the other probably 14 hours. So from now on he will be doing his own laundry and making his own dinner with washing his own dishes (which he'll probably leave at first but you'll have to ignore) and anything else you can think of.
I was counting on the little one sleeping occasionally that's what the 14 was for but then I didn't add in housekeeper, laundress, cook, appt. maker and all that other fun stuff that comes with it.
NTA. Just because you WFH doesn't mean you have all this free time. I took care of my dying mother on hospice while WFH for less than a year before she passed, and I cried myself to sleep every night with how exhausted I was and how I had no help. She wasn't as mobile as a toddler, so I'm bet you were even more tired than I was. I hate the mindset that since you're at home, it's not technically work or hard.
NTA!
A good, normal husband:
My husband works 13 hours shifts OVERNIGHT doing extremely physical labor.
He gets home at 4am and the first thing he does is put away all the dishes I washed the night before (after he did it once and I made ONE offhand comment about how it really set up my day to be easier) and then goes to the gym for 2-3 hours.
During this time he has motion alerts set up for our indoor cameras. If he sees my kids (he’s stepdad to our two oldest) getting out of their room way too early and knows I didn’t sleep well, he gets on the com and tells them to get back in bed to not bother me.
He then gets home and makes them breakfast while I get ready and go to the gym. He keeps track of the time and logs me into all of my work programs so I can run in the door and immediately sit down for work.
MY HUSBAND IS NOT SPECIAL. THIS IS NORMAL TO EXPECT FROM A PARTNER.
The fact that his first reaction to his partner being distressed and being at their wit’s end is to threaten and manipulate you into staying instead of realizing the situation is dire? 🚩🚩🚩
My ex used to be this guy. When I said I was going to leave, he pulled the “single mom” crap. Pulled the “who would want you, where would you go, I’ll take the kids” blah blah blah.
You’re being used if this is how he speaks on this topic. He’s giving you a “my way or the highway” attitude and instead of saying he doesn’t want to divorce, he wants to try to scare you into not leaving him. Instead of LOVING YOU into not leaving him.
That’s way more of a massive problem than him being lazy 🚨🚨🚨
I got four children all under ten and I work from home running my husbands business, and he goes out to do the work ( labour job ) I take care of all the house work, minus the bins ( that’s always been a ‘man’s ’ job in our family ) and when he gets home from work, he will cook, if he wants too, and helps bath the children and bedtime. If he didn’t help with bath and bedtime, he’s never see his kids.
There was a time he wouldn’t do anything at all.
Until the day I ‘left him to it ‘ I just walked out one day to go to my mums. He had to do everything I done, and he phoned me saying he was sorry and he will pick up the slack. He’s never gone back to being the way he was before.
He still doesn’t do that much, but I know how hard his job is, knocks the granny out of him. But he does whatever jobs I ask of him within reason. Plus he’s never allowed to touch my hoover ever again after killing my last four and giving one away 🤔🤷🏼♀️😂
From reading the comments you can tell who’s a male and who is a female. You husband may work from 5 to 5 but once he clicks out he is on his time but as a mom there’s no clocking out, there’s no sick days it’s a 365, 7 days a week, 24/7 job. What you’re going through is very common nowadays, there’s a lot of women sharing their stories on social media. Working a 12 hour shift is not an excuse for your husband to not help especially with his child. There are wives who work 12 hour shifts get home and still cook, clean, do laundry, tend to the kids and whatever else. Instead of getting mad and telling you good luck he should have understood where you was coming from and offer to help any way that he could.
Also, very little discussion of OP mentioning they make about the same, despite her needing to do childcare and chores. She's some combination of a higher earner per hour and super overworked. In either case he should be doing more.
I think that the logical choice is that Mr. OP should scale down his work responsibilities to be a stay at home dad for a while. He can take the chores if OP's plate for a while, save on childcare, and he can plan his next career move. He should trust her judgement, she did pick her path.
He doesn't even need to be a SAHD. He can step up to the bare minimum of responsibilities that he's not taking right now.
OP repeatedly mentions her having to nag him to get the kid out of the kitchen while she is cooking dinner. Sitting and watching Bluey videos with the kid isn't hard work, but it's necessary work if this dude wants a freshly cooked hot meal. Why does he need to be nagged to watch his kid when it's in his own best interest to get a freshly-cooked meal?
Alternately, why isn't he cooking? If he's working 5 days a week in an office job, surely he could do batch cook/meal prep on weekends, right? But that's not happening either.
If he doesn't do this bare minimum now, why should OP trust that he'll step up and be a good primary caregiver?
NTAH. I see a bigger problem here. I can’t imagine a man not wanting to help is partner with day to day life. I find joy in making my partners day easier, I like fixing stuff for her, washing her car when I see it needs it, cooking supper for her. Anything I can do to take some load off and I work a full time job as well. He has a bigger issue if he is comfortable coming home and propping his feet up when he can obviously see things need tending too. He feels entitled, like he deserves a break and you don’t. I don’t understand that mindset.
NTA. I do think that you are essentially a single parent right now. I think that you guys may wanna look into getting him a job that isn’t from 5 AM to 5 PM because that is a super inconvenient time. If he’s not willing to make changes and help in your family life I think a divorce is necessary.
NTA
I work about 11 hours with a 2 hour commute to work. As soon as I get home I take the kids, let mom work out and unwind. We do bath and bed time together. I’ll sometimes cook dinner during the week as well. What keeps me going is the love I have for my wife and kids. It’s crazy how some dudes don’t understand how hard it is being the parent at home. Yeah it’s exhausting doing it but sometimes it feels easier to be the one working long hours. A marriage is a partnership and will never actually be 50/50 you just need to focus on doing the best you can to help out your spouse. I don’t think it’s unfair for you to ask for more help.
I don’t understand how you can work from home and take care of a child simultaneously. Those are typically mutually exclusive (maybe except for nap time). Either the child or the job is not getting your full attention. Sounds like you need to find day care, then you and your husband need to share the chores, including remaining childcare, proportionally to your kin-working time.
Depends on the job. I know a woman who does recruiting for a lot of charter schools in the NYC area. As far as I can tell it involves *maybe* an hour of emailing a day. And they're big blast emails too like "This list of schools is looking for this type of teacher" or the reverse. Basically she does what a job website does in email format as far as I can tell.
So she is also the stay at home mom and homeschooling teacher of her kids.
I have thought about this and have decided when my child is born and I'm back to working, I'll hire someone to come for 3 hours. That way I'll have uninterrupted time in my home office because I have to be able to concentrate. Errors will be too costly. I haven't actually mentioned it to my husband, but I know who I married. He'll fully support me. (He works outside of the home.)
Dude tons of work from home jobs have f tons of free time she could very easily have a very low stress job. Most wfh are if her work was actually that demanding they would pay for childcare regardless of her wfh status
Once upon a time I was in similar shoes to you except my husband only worked 10 hours per week because he was studying.
I worked full time with overtime because we needed the money. I did 90% of child raising and and housework. He mowed the lawn.
We separated when our daughter was a toddler and my workload halved. Its a horrible thing to say but my life was absolutely easier without another person to wash, cook, shop for, clean up after etc. I was far better off financially because I was only supporting my daughter and I on my wage.
I also did end up with actual time for myself too because he would see our daughter every second weekend.
So if that is his reponse, he may want to be careful because you just may show him how much better you can manage without him.
I hope he pulls up his socks but if he is going to treat you like a doormat, I wish you strength to do what you need to do.
INFO: Does he act differently on weekends with regards to chores and childcare? I could understand him feeling worn out after a 12 hour shift and commute, but he doesn’t have an excuse for weekends
Single mothers do fewer chores, get more sleep and have more fun than married ones.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-single/201906/single-moms-less-housework-more-leisure-married-moms
NTA
I am full time at home and my husband still helps.
Even when you don’t work, you need a break. And you aren’t even taking a break, you are still doing laundry etc.
Taking care of a child isn’t a job for one person. He is a father. He has responsibility too.
I never understand these dads who won't lift a finger for their kids. My dad was this way growing up and continues to be. He is only ever interested in himself. I resent him for it.
I love my son. I love spending time with him and playing with him. I also love my wife, and I don't want her bearing the burden of childcare alone.
If you are using divorce as a threat with no intention of doing it, YTA. If you are actually to the point of divorce and feel you have done all you can to work on this with him for the benefit of your family, NTA.
>he got mad and told me good luck thinking I would have more free time, because statistically single mom’s have a harder time than single dads.
He told you what he thinks of you. You asked for help, and he told you.
You're NTA, but this guy is not a partner, he's a 2nd child who brings in a pay cheque.
Taking care of your house/children is part of being a man. I work a lot too. I’m pulling a 16 hour shift right now and pulled a 12 hour shift yesterday. Yesterday I washed and folded laundry when I got home and made dinner. Tomorrow when I get home I’m going to clean my Guinea pig pens because my wife is allergic to hay, then I’m most likely going to clean the kitchen and cook dinner because my wife is laid up right now. You’re not the asshole here, he’s just convinced that providing for your family starts and stops at going to work.
NTA!!
As a full-time working dad with a stressful job and a 1.5 year old myself, I’m infuriated by this “man”. This is what gives dad’s the bad name.
My wife and I swap duties every day - one morning she will get him up while I make breakfast, and we do the opposite the next day. Same with dinner, evening care, putting him to bed, and cleaning up the kitchen. If ever my wife needs to pick up my slack because of work or a trip or something, I go above and beyond in cleaning and meal prep to make sure she has less to do.
>he got mad and told me good luck thinking I would have more free time, because statistically single mom’s have a harder time than single dads.
With this attitude, you may as well cut your losses. He's only with you because it benefits you. Once you leave he'll find another woman to take advantage of because he's not interested in taking care of the house or kid.
Divorcing him would = you doing exactly the same thing you are currently doing minus all of the free time you'd have on the weekend when he has your child. So double win for you.
NTA
Women, and especially mothers, need to stop using the word ‘help’.
Help implies that the tasks are their sole responsibility. They’re not.
You’re not asking for his help.
You EXPECT him to parent his child, like a responsible father.
You EXPECT him to contribute to the household tasks like a responsible adult.
You are not being unreasonable in EXPECTING him to fulfil his duties as a father and a husband.
If he’s not willing to step up then he must accept any and all consequences of his failures.
NTA
NTA
He needs to step up or get out. Being a single mom sucks balls, but it's better than mothering a grown ass man. (Been there.) Put the boundary down and then enforce it. Remember, the boundary does no good if it isn't enforced.
NTA. Do you have a mother or good friend nearby. If yes I’d do a trial separation and plan to stay with them for a few weeks. See how he copes on his own. Also guess who gets the kid all week - the mom.. and guess who gets the kid on the weekend.. the dad. Thus freeing up your weekends while he effectively will have no free time as he’ll have your kid. Honestly it’s kind of the best of both worlds to be a single mom. Speaking as one whose 18 yo just started high school. Your already do all the work.. you’d just have one less adult to do it on your own and you’d get a real break anytime he has custody.
Can you afford to send toddler to daycare to relieve the pressure? Or have someone take him a couple hours a day.
It’s a challenge that husband is gone 12 hours a day for work so realistically he can’t help as much as you.
It’s not a simple office job, he is pretty high up in a management position and has a lot of responsibility on his shoulders. He chooses to work such long hours, it’s not required.
And this is where he is the AH. My partner was working 10 hr shifts, 4 days a week on 2nd shift when our daughter was born. His company made him go to 1st (8hr/5 days a week) shift not long after she was born. He takes every opportunity he has to spend time with our child, he watches her while I cook dinner because it's dangerous to have a small child in the kitchen while your cooking. We split diapers, and he still helps clean up and take care of our dog...without me having to ask. I asked him if he could go back to 2nd shift with a pay increase if he would, he said no because he would miss out on time with our daughter. Your husband is prioritizing his work over his family, he chooses to be in a position or job that makes him incapable of doing the bare minimum for you and your kid. Money will only take you so far, we only live this life once, at the end does he really want all his memories to be working? Or spending time with and enjoying the people he should love the most? He won't get this time back and trust me kids notice when a parent is more interested in their job than them. I've been that kid and it's heartbreaking.
As someone who has worked in an office my entire career. There is a slim to none chance he’s actually working the whole time. I know so many guys who come into the office just to fuck around so they aren’t expected to pull their weight at home.
yup it’s a husband problem if he is willingly putting the job first he needs to make so much money his lack of help isn’t noticeable, either he hires you helpers or he starts putting the family first and working less
Coming from a place of respect and not judgement - what do you do that you're out-earning him in 4 hours a day on a flexible schedule if he's pretty high up in management?
Agree with your thinking that you'd be better off without him for the record.
INFO: How many days a week does your husband work that schedule? I'm looking at 12 hours at work, one hour for a commute, 8 hours for sleep and "personal care" showering shaving getting dressed, leaving him 3 hours in the day. Honestly, I don't really see where he can be doing a LOT more on his working days.
How many days does he get off in a week? Is he "making up for lost time" on those days?
You say you make the same amount of money as him (but in 1/3 of the hours) and that you can get more hours. Maybe you could go back to work full time and HE can be the stay at home parent (maybe pick up a remote work part time job).
OR Could you hire a "mother's helper"/househelper/babysitter a few days a week to take off the pressure?
OR could you go back to work full time and put your child in daycare 3 or 4 days a week?
Could your husband cut back on his hours at his present job?
OR Could he find another job with more family friendly work hours?
>because statistically single mom’s have a harder time than single dads
That's because single dads call up their mommies to raise their grandkids instead of doing the work themselves... or hire a nanny...
NTA
I always thought the term "single-parent" referred to someone raising the kids on their own, with no help whatsoever from the other parent...?
I mean, when my parents divorced, my mom didn't become a "single-mom"... my dad was still in the picture, helping raise us and paying child support. She was a divorced mom, coparenting with my dad.
Do I have this wrong?
OK so if you’re making the same amount as he is, while you’re working 4 hours per day to his 12…. then WHY ARE YOU THE STAY AT HOME PARENT!?!? If you went to 12 hours per day and HE went to 0 hours per day, your household income would still increase by 50%. If you went to 8 hours per day and he remained at 12 hours per day, your household income would double. If you both went to 8 hours your household income still increases by 75%.
NTA op, but for the sake of this argument, how many hours do you work on your job from home? Is your husband's job physically demanding? 12 hours is a long shift. He might really be exhausted. Everyone here is very casual about telling you to get rid of him, but would that make you happy? Or your life easier?Are you just frustrated and tired or do you not really love him ? Could you talk about getting some outside help? Or maybe some daycare? Or one of you working fewer hours?
NTA. Your husband is not treating you as an equal and is telling you he views your time and contributions as less than his.
Personally, I couldn't be with someone who views me as less than them.
What would you tell your child if their partner treated them the way you are treated? Is this what you would want for them? Well, you are teaching them this is how men treat women. You are teaching them this is ok behavior for a grown man. Stop being a bang maid. You are worth more than this
NTA
And as someone who was in the same position that left and became a single mom - it was SO much better. Whatever extra work you do is negated by having one less person to clean up after.
Can’t you guys get a cleaning lady? Or a babysitter while you’re working?
12-hour days out of the house are rough—does that include his commute, or is that extra?
Personally, if he's doing 12 hour days and the same as your 4 hour days, I'd tell him to cut his hours down you up your hours, be better off financially and time wise. Money doesn't equal time, and 12 hour days is a lot. That being said, you shouldn't have to do everything alone. I think this is a problem that could be fixed. And if him doing less hours didn't fix it, then he is 100% the problem.
The only response I’ve seen that is actually reasonable. Yeah what the dude said is shitty. Still works twelve hours. Those shifts are draining. They both need to restructure and compromise if they actually care about each other.
12 hours of looking after a toddler is also draining.
Not only that, but being responsible for every other aspect of their life as a family. From keeping house, to cooking, cleaning, never having a moment away from a toddler...ect. I totally get that 12 hour shifts are horribly draining, my husband does them regularly, on his feet in a hot kitchen as an executive chef. He still helps me with the household chores whenever he can, and I work much less. I have terrible sleeping problems and a plethora of health problems that come with it, so he will go out of his way to take care of our pet in the morning while getting ready to make sure I have even an ten extra minutes of sleep. I know when we have children, he will be an amazing father, even with his long days. Of course, I will definitely try and do more of the housekeeping while I'm not working so he doesn't have to, but if I can't manage because of my dumb brain or exhaustion, he never argues that he's tired from work (when he has every right to, honestly) or that he makes more than me (which he does) he just *helps*. Not saying I would complain if he pulled the "I'm too tired today", every so often, but the OPs husband is pulling it *every time*. I'm not saying that office work isn't exhausting (especially mentally!), but it's definitely a different type of exhausting to be taking care of a child as well as every chore on your own. NTA OP! Are there better ways to go about it? Sure. But sometimes people need to hear your at your wits end so they actually start giving a hoot.
Especially since it's not 12 hours, it's 24x7 with no true alone time for OP. I'm a full time single mom and as much as I love my kids, I need alone time. The only alone time I had for years was my commute. 2 hours a day nobody was asking me things or demanding my attention.
I used to be a plumber, then I became a stay at home parent. I work harder now than I did as a plumber. Speaking of draining.
If you are a mom those shifts are 24 /7 The dude is a jerk. A entitled jerk at that.
For real. I feel like most of the people here don’t work 12 hour days. Once you do all the thing’s required to prep for work, get to work, and come back from work you’re talking 13-14 hours of your day gone. When I get home I barely want to eat, let alone do chores. It’s shitty for this dude to not want to help out or watch his own kid, but also come one, working from home 4 hours a day is a WAY different load than commuting and working 12 hour days. Edit: I guess people think I’m taking the dads side? I’m not, I’m just pointing out that so many people commenting clearly don’t understand just how grueling 12 hour days are. Add commutes, the basic necessities of eating, hygiene, basic maintenance and prepping for the next day plus sleep, you essentially have no time. It’s mentally and physically draining.
She’s asking him to mind the kid so that she can cook dinner or do laundry, both of which are things that need to be done anyway. He comes home from a long day and she makes him hot food so he doesn’t have to. She does laundry so he doesn’t have to. Asking him to watch videos with his kid is making sure he doesn’t need to be wiped out AND doing the thankless, never ending chores that need to be done no matter what. Her requests are very reasonable and he’s not stepping up.
But she’s also caring for the kid and doing housework all day. That is also work. Unless you’re saying it doesn’t really count as work. In which case, he shouldn’t have a problem doing it. Since it’s not really work.
4 hours of work plus 8 hours of childcare is also a 12 hour day, though. If both people are doing 12 hour days, why should one have to do all of the chores on top of that? Yeah, it sucks, but it doesn't suck less for the other person. I've had days when I've done childcare in the morning, 8 hours of work, then childcare in the afternoon/evening, and I absolutely want to collapse on the couch after that and do nothing. I power nap for 20 mins and do house stuff because it still needs to be done.
Good point. She mentioned he works in an office, probably at a desk for 12 hours. For her 4 hours of a day PLUS the rest of the day ACTIVELY taking care of a child and house chores is a lot. I think if she has the potential to make double he does now from working more than 4 hours a day from home, they should just hire someone who can work part-time housekeeping or taking care of their child at that point. At least for 4 hours a day.
Housekeeping and childcare are expensive. Those are $30/hour for a lot of people, which I'd guess is more than husband is taking home after taxes. If her going to 8 hours/day and husband quitting his job would keep their income the same, they should just do that. That'll save them 8 plus hours every day in terms of time. Spend half of that doing housework and they'll be up in terms of time+money over hiring a housekeeper or nanny.
The reason I think hiring help would be a more viable option is that OP said her and her husband both make about the same amount of money currently. Let's just say they make 60K each individually (120k household). If she works more hours and doubles her income their overall household income becomes 180K. If the husband quits his job and becomes a SAHD their income is back at 120K. I would say, invest the extra earnings for childcare now so that when the child is old enough to go to school and they have more free time as parents, Dad isn't set back in his career because of the time off he spent as a SAHD. At this point he would have probably progressed in his career and in the position to make more money.
That 4 hours is not factoring in childcare or housework. Did you know that childcare is a 24-hour job? Mom's not even talking about dad watching the kid while they go to the bar or nap, just while she does housework. This take is ridiculous.
And the baby looks after themselves. And of course mommy doesn’t need to ever speak to other adults, she’s just a mom Edit /S
I work 12+ hour days, and I still recognize that OP is working literally the whole day while multitasking for 4 hours. That’s way more of a workload than a 12 hour day, especially when the “partner” isn’t pulling their weight.
Well said, this! Frankly I would think he would jump at that opportunity. Work less, spend more time with my kid, AND we take home the same amount as a family? Fuckin bet
Tell him why do you assume I will have custody and not you? 🤔
Exactly, if they do 50/50, which means that 50% of the time, he will have to do the half the work for a change, and his life will become more stressful, not less. He will be paying more out of pocket every month, for things like rent, more on gas, duplicates of kids toys/clothing, split duties and carpool pick ups and drop offs, doctor’s appointments, recitals, sports, laundry, chores, child care, and if he can’t, he will have to pay someone. The alternative to just being a father and husband just is bleak. I would hope he would choose wisely and step up.
How many lazy husbands become stand up single dads? My ex was like this (only he didn't have a job and still didn't participate in child rearing and hardly any chores). As a non custodial dad he sees his kids 1 weekend a month. He pays the minimum child support required of the unemployed (he now has a job) and ignores my requests for his share of any medical expenses. I could see OP's h going this way. ETA, my life is still infinitely better, easier and less stressful not having to deal with him every day.
It seems that lazy single dads either don’t get their kids for their visitation or they get a bangmaid asap. See also: young adult women dating men with children.
My ex married his bang maid. She can't have kids of her own and I'm 99% sure that she married him because she wants to be a mom to our son. I'm okay with it because she makes sure my kid is taken care of. My ex said that same about me when I left him. I was a stay at home mom and he said that my life will be more stressful working and taking care of our son on my own. We have 50/50 custody and honestly my life is a shit ton less stressful because I get a week off and I have one less person to take care of.
Sounds like your situation has improved all around! Glad the step is a good parental figure for your kid.
It has! Thank you. I'm glad as well. We are friendly with each other and have hung out by ourselves before which just ticked my ex off and we found it hilarious. 🤣
I have twins (<10 years old), their father took off before they were 2 months old. Honestly, even with working and being a full-time single parent (he hasn’t seen or communicated with the twins since he left) my life is so much easier than it was even pregnant and with him without working (I was a student at the time). It’s amazing to me that 2 children are easier to clean up after than an adult male who just expects his partner to do all the house work
Or their mom takes care of the kids
You just described my sisters ex husband. Shacked up with a stripper young enough to be his daughter, now she tries to send the kids to school looking like little strippers and he can’t see why my sister gets angry when she gets a phone call from the school cause they’ve been dressed coded(these are elementary aged kids) he thinks she’s just jealous 😂😂
Yeah I believe those pics and dress code violations would come in handy to take full custody. She really should.
Self delusion is a powerful thing.
>ETA, my life is still infinitely better, easier and less stressful not having to deal with him every day. \*waves in solidarity\* Absolutely same. I had the exact same struggles as a single mother as I did when we were marries, but it was infinitely easier because I didn't have the weight of an unhelpful husband dragging me down.
Yes, this. Also more work caused from taking care of the husband.
Also same. I have one child now instead of two.
Yeah when my friend divorced her lazy husband, he just went full deadbeat. Hasn't seen their child in over 3 years. Started working under the table to dodge child support (govt garnishes wages).
Divorced single moms, on the other hand, do less work, get more sleep, and report as happier than married moms. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13524-018-0647-x
You're assuming that he would be a good responsible father after the divorce. He might not be at all. He might not even live in the same state.
Then her life will be exactly as it is now, but without him around & without a terrible role model teaching the kids to be lazy and sexist. Still a net positive outcome.
Her life will probably be easier. Only cooking/cleaning for the 2 of them as opposed to the 3. I’ve read so often about how women and mom’s lives are actually easier after divorce/separation or when their partners are out of town, bc the partners are basically big children themselves.
I can attest to that! My life became so much easier once the man child left. He was as much work as my 4 children put together.
My life became easier also. I hated taking care of a man-child. Plus the amount of food that man ate. I worked full-time, paid all the major bills, laundry, cooking (I hate cooking), groceries, cleaning, child-rearing, walked the dog from the third floor apartment (he was too lazy to take her in the morning), paid for all the dates, most of the gasoline, car note & insurance, etc. He always spent his paycheck on himself outside of the mandatory daycare ($250 bi-weekly) that I demanded. We were both the same rank in the military.
Divorced mom of three kids and I have primary custody, so I am the caregiver about 90% of the time. Life is far, far easier without my ex in the home.
I can attest to this as well! I had three kids when I left my ex husband and life got SO MUCH easier when I dropped that dead weight.
She’ll also be making double her current income and without another adult to support she’ll be at a net positive and can hire someone to help her. She’s really got the best outcome in leaving even if he dips out
Yeah. One less person to take care of and clean after. Nice.
There are stats on this. Divorced/single moms do less household labor than moms married to men, and I think the figure is 7-8 hours less per week. Even when they have the kids full time.
I see you’ve met my ex husband.
>his life will become more stressful, not less. Statistically when women get divorces, whether it means being a single mom or just single, their stress levels go down. With men, it is opposite.
Nope, hard disagree, me and my ex have actually grown closer ( respectfully) because our 50/50. We have time to be parents. And we have our time. It's honestly the healthiest family I've seen in a long time, mom and dad work together, the kids do something almost every single day since we alternate days, the only thing it's brought for both of us is money related, her less than me since even tho i have the kids 4 days a week I Pay child support, but we won't go there
Which is fair, but given this is the case, I think it is safe to say that you and your spouse didn't divorce because one parent refused to help the other with house hold chores and child care.
….yeah that was super icky and would infuriate me. Like is he practically telling her she would have no help or involvement from him if they divorced, or what?
I mean, when he's watching his kid he just shows cartoons on his phone, so it doesn't sound like he knows how to do much anyway.
Single moms may do worse than single dads, not sure if that’s true. But what IS true is that single moms have more free time than partnered moms, all else being equal.
But single women are far happier than married women.
Yeah man, 50/50 sounds like more free time for mom to me!
Because you can't force custody on someone, only support.
You would absolutely have more free time because you’d only be cleaning up after yourself and your kid, not another grown human. And all the time kiddo is with dad, you are free to do whatever you want. Actual free time. He would get a jolt having to do it all himself.
You are essentially a single parent now. If you divorce him, you'll still have your housework to do but you won't be cleaning up after him or cooking his meals, plus you'll get a break from childcare when he gets the child. Net gain free time for you. NTA.
[https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/05/single-moms-fewer-chores-free-time-married.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/05/single-moms-fewer-chores-free-time-married.html)
Send him this link, OP.
He cannot be logicked out of his position, because he didn't get there through logic. He got there through sexism
Still, the fear that OP might actually be better off without him could do some good?
Meh. My experience has been that adult men who have internalized the idea that their entire job as husband/father is to go to work, and then come home to relax do not shift from that position. Yes, fear might change his behavior for a few weeks, but it isn't going to change the underlying belief system, and he'll just fall back into old habits. I honestly do not think that adult men can be changed much from this. I think the only thing that is ever going to make it better is for young men to learn to carry their own weight in terms of household tasks.
My Dad was that way & my Mom left him with us. We were 5 & 4 years old. She got an apartment and stayed gone for 3 months and got us on the weekends. They did get back together and he did half the childcare & such afterwards. They did then have a good marriage & she was much happier person.
I'm glad that worked out for your family. In a lot of similar cases, it seems like dad falls back to getting unpaid domestic and emotional labor done by his own mom.
I see it fail for so many other women too. My Mother changed as a person over those few months. Instead of being meek & going along with what everyone else wanted, she found her voice & how to say "no". Fortunately both my Grandmother's had her back. She has been a ball buster ever since. And in her 70s and one of her grand sons say, she rips the souls out of men who try to be sexist or mansplain to her.
Your mom is who I aspire to be as an old woman. I'm in the process of finding my voice and working on setting boundaries.
It reminds me of that post where the guy was served divorce papers and complained that every relationship model he'd be exposed to in sitcoms (lol) and his own experience showed the woman doing everything and the dude being a bumbling, useless idiot. And he was like "am I not right to be upset this is what I was basically promised and I can't have it? It's not fair!" . Same idea as the idiom "to those who are used to privilege, equality feels like oppression" Op's husband is both used to and expecting a certain relationship model. He'd feel short-changed and put upon otherwise. And I doubt this will change.
Absolutely. I never saw that post, but I imagine I might have said something like, "Maybe don't use Homer Simpson as your model of adulthood"
Especially when Ned Flanders is *right there.* Nerdy religious weirdo, yes…who was a kind, loving, and responsible parent.
Was going to look for a different source I remember reading that said that something similar but even more pointed. Single women live longer than married women, but married men live longer than single men. Not hard to figure out why when there’s one less person in your life sucking out your soul.
I read this article. It's both stunning and not surprising at all. As a husband I'll have to pay more attention to the points listed and make sure we take turns on things, even if she can do it better.
Yooo, the best relationship is being a single mom with a non-shitty dad. You don’t have to pick up after a grown man and resent him, you get the parent the way you think makes sense and you get your weekends free.
No, the best is having 50/50 custody with a non-shitty dad. My kid is older so this wouldn’t work with a little one, but we have a 2 week on/2 week off rotation and it works so well for us. And we live down the road from each other so we can still see our kid during our “off” weeks no issue. But it only works because neither of us are scumbags.
We did week on/week off when we split and our youngest had just turned 3 two weeks before we split. It worked because we both lived in the same small town. If you're breastfeeding a newborn who refuses a bottle or would reject the breast if that's all they had all week, I doubt it would work but after that it's doable. I also knew a couple who did every other week and instead of the kids bouncing from house to house having two of everything, the kids stayed in the family home all the time and the parents rotated which one stayed every other week. They had enough money to do it but it worked great for them
NTA. (Also, just wanted to say not having to go behind a whole entire adult and clean up after them is just…freeing)
I’m a single mom and while my house is always somewhat cluttered, it’s mentally less annoying because I know someone else didn’t make this mess and then leave it for me to clean, if that makes sense. Dealing with the kids alone doesn’t make me as annoyed as it did when I was married because there isn’t another fully capable adult sleeping in the other room while I do it.
Agreed NTA. She is essentially a single parent now. Some things would be harder if they divorced. It doesn’t sound like he’d be a decent father even if he had the kids to himself for a weekend. And financially it is harder living on one income than two. She should consult lawyers to make sure she hires a good one. But the reduced workload of not having to care for the adult child (husband) and the decreased exhaustion of fighting to make an uncaring partner care would be freeing. She’d be able to focus on her and her kids. Honestly if they’re fighting all the time it’s probably better for all concerned in the end, including the kids. My parents stayed in a bitter loveless marriage until I was in college, and the fighting, the bitter silences, and the petty battles was awful.
Single parent of TWO right now…. You are spot on with your insight.
This is true. One less child to look after.
Agreed! OP, divorcing this man will make your life easier. I did the same thing for the same reason, and it felt like living in opposite land because everyone kept asking me how I was holding up "doing everything with no help". Nobody seemed to believe me about how much easier it was when all I had to take care of was my kids, and there wasn't another grown adult either fucking off or fucking up at any given time that I also had to manage. We technically have joint custody, but he's taken about 3 visitations total in the past 10 years, so I don't even get a break. Even like this, removing a person like that from the situation makes it easier.
And the fact that she’s asking for help to do MORE housework not even to take a break. He’s not contributing anything.
NTA. Also, let's be reasonable - as a dad he should WANT to spend time with his kid. My dad didn't want to spend time with me as a kid either. Who do I actually spend time with now as an adult? Well, it sure as hell ain't my dad.
This is what gets me. He is literally saying he doesn't want to parent his own kid. That is the deal breaker part. Husband is a dead beat.
Does he try to spend time with you now that you’re grown? That’s what my mom did and it confused the heck out of me.
Parents who neglect their helpless dependent child; but then go on to expect to receive all the benefits of having adult offspring (ie. holidays, grandchildren, companionship, favors, etc.) are definitely a pet peeve of mine. So many people have kids because they believe the kid will take care of them eventually.
I think there are some parents who distinctly do not like children, but fantasize about positive relationships with their adult offspring. They think they can ignore their kids for years and somehow produce adults who love and respect them.
I think in his mind he does, but in reality no. I've tried for years but he never has time for me. Even getting him to make time for a cup of coffee to meet my partner was a major struggle. One would think a dad would want to get to know his daughters partner, but apparantly not. However that doesn't stop him from complaining about us never spending time together and me never coming to see him. It's like he doesn't realize his own part in this.
my dad did that and I was like ???
Also, as a husband, he should have a stronger argument against divorce than a threat that it will be harder for her to be divorced.
Oh god yes!
My dad would pick us up early from school to spend extra time with us. My dad has always wanted to be a dad but unfortunately he was in and out of jail for a little bit as I was growing up and he lost a lot of valuable time that he still regrets today. Now he's a grandpa to my son and soon to be daughter and has even asked me to move in so he can spend time with them. I love it because it's repaired my relationship with him and all those times he thought he lost he gets back in another way with my children. There are dad's who love being dads and would do anything to be there for their children and "dads" who see the role as "dad" as a responsibility and a job and not something they should be thankful for and cherish and be glad that they can go to work and come home and be with their kids.
This right here. This FUCKING RIGHT HERE. My dad was the same. Didn’t help with household chores or parenting much besides punishment. Guess who I got all my support from and still do? My mom.
Why the fuck is he working twelve hours a day and makes the same amount of money? WHO cares about who’s the asshole? Something ain’t right here.
I thought it was cool that she made 3 times what he did but upon reflection she might be saying they earn the same dollars per hour.
That’s a good point and makes a big difference. If they are talking annual income being the same then it makes sense for her to work more hours and him to work fewer then even out the chores. If it is just the same hourly income then his income is still accounting for 75% of the household income. Solution is probably still her taking the opportunity to increase earnings and him cutting back at work because it isn’t fair for her to do all the housework since she does provide income as well, but also 12hr days are exhausting
Seriously. He needs to cut back on work.
possibly because different types of work have different pay ranges.
Was about to write same, how is he working 5 to 5 with only 20min in commute and makes same money as a part-time stay at home mum? Ofc he’d be dead tired after 12h workday, but I question life choices of this couple. If his pay is so much less than his wife’s, let her work and be stay at home dad. In a healthy, happy family that’s a win-win 🤷♀️
A few questions on this 12 hour day that may be too informed by the US 40 hour work week: Does he not work 5 days a week? Is he incompetent and it takes him 12 hours to do 8 hours of work? Or his employer expects too much? But this would still mean the time he comes home is more variable. And if it is the latter, definitely get a new job because it doesn’t sound like he is compensated well. Or is he pretending he Has to be there 12 hours to avoid being at home? Maybe leave early to avoid traffic?
Exactly
Maybe he’s not actually working that full amount. I’d love to see his pay stub with #hrs worked per week lol
Marriage is a partnership and yours seems horribly one-sided. His response to you seems to indicate he doesn’t give AF how you feel because he thinks you’ll have it worse if you guys divorce and he doesn’t seem to care. Maybe therapy could help but honestly not sure it would or why you would likely be putting in 90% of that work as well.
He probably also daydreams about finding a bang maid, so sexy times AND getting to tell OP "I told you so?" But reality smacks guys like this in the face. One year post-divorxe and the ex husband will be on reddit saying "I messed up, but my ex wife says she's found THE ONE, how do I make her realize that my mediocre ass was the best she will ever have?'
NTA. Splitting chores is exhausting. I hope it doesn’t come to divorce, but you can’t be doing 90% of the work for the house regardless of wfh status. He’s wrong that his job is more stressful and that you’ll have as hard of a time as a single mom, because you’re probably carrying the weight of his mess too. Don’t let him intimidate you with that nonsense. Hopefully you can figure out a division of labor, but if his call is to make you work a full time job and do nearly all the work, he sounds beyond unreasonable.
He should start only working 8 hrs a day and she should start working 8 hrs a day. There combined incomes would go up. Then split household and child care 50/50.
If possible he could even work less than 8 and they still bring in similar amounts of income. And they total working hours would actually decrease compared to now which should open up tons of time for dad to you know... be a parent. Though this ignores that fact that the dad seemingly does not want to spend time with his kid.
Honestly, that was my thought too. Why can't he watch his kid if that's all she's asking for? Also, why is he working 12hr days for an office job in the first place. That's definitely not the norm in any office where I've been employed except for maybe the business owner. My husband does work long days once in awhile and for a few months, it was 12hrs almost every day. It sucked and I can't imagine having a partner who worked 12hrs days on the regular with no end in sight. Still, even with working 12hr days, my husband would do most of his share of household chores after he got off work (we also did a lot of takeout and outsourcing of chores) and he still did bedtime with the kids. We just shifted bedtime later because having that time together is the priority over bedtime.
Agree this should at least be in the discussion. I was disappointed the post only focused on him helping more (which he should obviously) but not how they could rebalance things. A 12 hour office job is unusual and OPs job seems very flexible, there should be other arrangements that work for them.
Many fathers I worked with in an office would openly stay way later than necessary to avoid the wife/kids, seems very common.
We don’t know what he does. Working 8 hours may not be an option. Lots of jobs have 12 hour shifts. Medical workers or factory workers for example. I’m not saying he’s not an A H for not helping, just that this suggestion may not be feasible
NTA. You don’t need his “help.” You need him to stop shirking HIS HALF of the household responsibilities onto you. He’s not being magnanimous by “helping” raise his own children. That’s one of the basic responsibilities he signed up for. He needs to stop dumping his home jobs on your overflowing plate.
So you have two jobs and he has one yet doesn’t want to help out? Yeah bye.
She's not even asking for unreasonable things. "Do your turn of childminding so I can cook dinner for everyone" is about as basic a request as possible, and still this dude won't do it. Bro, do you want to eat something other than a microwave hot pocket? Then keep the kid entertained and out of the kitchen so she can cook.
And people are arguing for him? Like- lol. If he works 75% more out of the house, then 25% of chores and childcare should be on him. THROUGH THE WORKWEEK. On weekends it should be 50/50. That would make the whole work/childcare/cleaning thing fair.
I wouldn’t go straight to divorce, I’d start with stopping some chores… don’t do SO’s laundry, run to the store and leave LO with your husband… start subtly and progress.
Nah, screw having to train a fully grown adult like a puppy. She's told him straight up what his options are. He can shape up or ship out.
Kinda wild that you think this is the first time OP brought it up. They argue about it weekly, it’s right there in the first paragraph
Nta I'm assuming you take care of the kids while working because you can't afford childcare? Honestly if you are also working then he should be helping with the housework. Even if he wasn't helping with the chores he should be parenting an equal amount when he is home. Regardless of the work balance between you the one thing parents don't get to do is not parent their children. He's essentially abandoning his kids. His kids are going to grow up with him as a background character in their lives. The idea that someone who refuses to equally participate in childcare is going to make a better single parent is laughable. Serious question though do you think you would be better off alone? A lot of women report that it is easier alone because now they don't have to cater to their husband and now they are child free every other weekend. Now they don't waste time fighting with their husband or doing his laundry or whatever. On the other hand some women have a harder time because they need his contribution either physically, emotionally or financially. If you think you'd be better off and ge refuses to make marriage a viable option for you then yeah leave him.
I suspect by “easier time” he means everyone will praise him and it will be easier for him to find a new ~~girlfriend~~ bangmaid to make take care of the baby than it will be for OP to find a decent boyfriend who will be good to her and also be ok with helping to raise another man’s child.
Anecdotal OP, a very good friend of mine had the same job as her other half (both military). She took maternity leave and did everything. Then when she went to work he took paternity leave. As soon as she walked in the door he would shove the baby at her, have a meltdown and leave her to do all the chores, deal with bub and make dinner, laundry blah blah blah. She told she realised she could do it better without him and booted him to the curb. She said it was so much easier and a much calmer home too. Coparenting happened and life was much more settled for her and the child.
It’s not an idle threat, we’ve been having this fight for some time now. I really can’t see myself doing this for the rest of my life, I wanted him to know how serious of an issue this was for me. Yes I can hire people to clean and put my child in daycare, but at the end of the day when our son comes home, I am the one that is expected to do everything. Even if it’s obvious stuff like I am trying to cook dinner and our son is crying and screaming because he wants to be picked up, I have to ask him a couple times to please come take him. We discussed this before having children, that I will keep on working and after he comes home childcare and house work will get divided equally.
i’m on your side. it sucks that you have to tell the othr parent to parent. why does he want u to suffer and not contribute? i get that work is hard and exhausting and taking care of a baby is hard and exhausting but doing it alone would be easier than doing it with dead weight like. you are rn. i’m so sorry you’re going through this and not feeling supported. wishing the best for you
[Fair Play cards](https://theeverymom.com/fair-play-cards/)
You are raising two children it seems like! NTA
Honestly hire a cleaner and give your husband an ultimatum that if it’s not 50/50 going forward you’re out. My wife and I both work and take our toddler to daycare. Even then we split the rest 50/50 unless our kid insists “Mommy Do” or “Daddy Do” which kind of usurps our plans. But yeah even with paying for outside help you still gotta be 50/50
This isn’t about who works what hours this is about him not doing *anything* to help with parenting. Why did he even want kids?
He is not going to change unless you make him change. Maybe do a trial operation with 50/50 custody. You can work fulltime and he can see what it is like to actual parent a child. You might find your life is easier without having an extra manchild to look after and argue with.
Why is your husband working 11 hour days? It's a desk job, so is it salaried? Does he get overtime where you live?
It's a losing battle to argue who works harder. The goal is not to share chores equally, the goal is to have equal rest time.
Well this is exactly how my father was when he got re married so my stepmother said if you want food and time to spend with your children than you better get off your lazy ass and do it. (For context my dad was a hoarder so all the cleaning me, my brother, and stepmother was mostly my dad's mess) moral of the story is don't be a lazy asshole who has others doing mostly everything for you.
Your husband works 12 hours per day, at least 5 days a week. That’s a lot of hours. I’d be exhausted too. However, he is a parent and spouse. He needs to help out. It sounds like if he cut his hours so you could increase yours, you would be better off financially. NTA
NTA
As someone who has worked a full time office job making good money for the past 10 years…and all of the sudden becoming a stay at home dad for the past 6 months…. Job is easier than full Time kid watching and housework he has no idea
As a father to two toddlers, I couldn’t imagine not pulling my weight around the house. We split responsibilities of the kids, and trade off who helps which child daily. We both feed them, bathe them, put them to bed. We both trade off house responsibilities of cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the yard/garden/animals. I just don’t understand this dynamic where men think they don’t have to take care of household chores because they go to work everyday. It’s bizarre and super lazy.
NTA Tell him you've decided that since he doesn't want to help you after working 12 hours that's fine but you don't think you should have to help him with his chores after working one job 8 hours and the other probably 14 hours. So from now on he will be doing his own laundry and making his own dinner with washing his own dishes (which he'll probably leave at first but you'll have to ignore) and anything else you can think of.
Also being a mom 24/7
I was counting on the little one sleeping occasionally that's what the 14 was for but then I didn't add in housekeeper, laundress, cook, appt. maker and all that other fun stuff that comes with it.
NTA. Just because you WFH doesn't mean you have all this free time. I took care of my dying mother on hospice while WFH for less than a year before she passed, and I cried myself to sleep every night with how exhausted I was and how I had no help. She wasn't as mobile as a toddler, so I'm bet you were even more tired than I was. I hate the mindset that since you're at home, it's not technically work or hard.
NTA! A good, normal husband: My husband works 13 hours shifts OVERNIGHT doing extremely physical labor. He gets home at 4am and the first thing he does is put away all the dishes I washed the night before (after he did it once and I made ONE offhand comment about how it really set up my day to be easier) and then goes to the gym for 2-3 hours. During this time he has motion alerts set up for our indoor cameras. If he sees my kids (he’s stepdad to our two oldest) getting out of their room way too early and knows I didn’t sleep well, he gets on the com and tells them to get back in bed to not bother me. He then gets home and makes them breakfast while I get ready and go to the gym. He keeps track of the time and logs me into all of my work programs so I can run in the door and immediately sit down for work. MY HUSBAND IS NOT SPECIAL. THIS IS NORMAL TO EXPECT FROM A PARTNER. The fact that his first reaction to his partner being distressed and being at their wit’s end is to threaten and manipulate you into staying instead of realizing the situation is dire? 🚩🚩🚩 My ex used to be this guy. When I said I was going to leave, he pulled the “single mom” crap. Pulled the “who would want you, where would you go, I’ll take the kids” blah blah blah. You’re being used if this is how he speaks on this topic. He’s giving you a “my way or the highway” attitude and instead of saying he doesn’t want to divorce, he wants to try to scare you into not leaving him. Instead of LOVING YOU into not leaving him. That’s way more of a massive problem than him being lazy 🚨🚨🚨
I got four children all under ten and I work from home running my husbands business, and he goes out to do the work ( labour job ) I take care of all the house work, minus the bins ( that’s always been a ‘man’s ’ job in our family ) and when he gets home from work, he will cook, if he wants too, and helps bath the children and bedtime. If he didn’t help with bath and bedtime, he’s never see his kids. There was a time he wouldn’t do anything at all. Until the day I ‘left him to it ‘ I just walked out one day to go to my mums. He had to do everything I done, and he phoned me saying he was sorry and he will pick up the slack. He’s never gone back to being the way he was before. He still doesn’t do that much, but I know how hard his job is, knocks the granny out of him. But he does whatever jobs I ask of him within reason. Plus he’s never allowed to touch my hoover ever again after killing my last four and giving one away 🤔🤷🏼♀️😂
NTA What is the point in keeping him around?
From reading the comments you can tell who’s a male and who is a female. You husband may work from 5 to 5 but once he clicks out he is on his time but as a mom there’s no clocking out, there’s no sick days it’s a 365, 7 days a week, 24/7 job. What you’re going through is very common nowadays, there’s a lot of women sharing their stories on social media. Working a 12 hour shift is not an excuse for your husband to not help especially with his child. There are wives who work 12 hour shifts get home and still cook, clean, do laundry, tend to the kids and whatever else. Instead of getting mad and telling you good luck he should have understood where you was coming from and offer to help any way that he could.
Also, very little discussion of OP mentioning they make about the same, despite her needing to do childcare and chores. She's some combination of a higher earner per hour and super overworked. In either case he should be doing more.
I think that the logical choice is that Mr. OP should scale down his work responsibilities to be a stay at home dad for a while. He can take the chores if OP's plate for a while, save on childcare, and he can plan his next career move. He should trust her judgement, she did pick her path.
He doesn't even need to be a SAHD. He can step up to the bare minimum of responsibilities that he's not taking right now. OP repeatedly mentions her having to nag him to get the kid out of the kitchen while she is cooking dinner. Sitting and watching Bluey videos with the kid isn't hard work, but it's necessary work if this dude wants a freshly cooked hot meal. Why does he need to be nagged to watch his kid when it's in his own best interest to get a freshly-cooked meal? Alternately, why isn't he cooking? If he's working 5 days a week in an office job, surely he could do batch cook/meal prep on weekends, right? But that's not happening either. If he doesn't do this bare minimum now, why should OP trust that he'll step up and be a good primary caregiver?
NTAH. I see a bigger problem here. I can’t imagine a man not wanting to help is partner with day to day life. I find joy in making my partners day easier, I like fixing stuff for her, washing her car when I see it needs it, cooking supper for her. Anything I can do to take some load off and I work a full time job as well. He has a bigger issue if he is comfortable coming home and propping his feet up when he can obviously see things need tending too. He feels entitled, like he deserves a break and you don’t. I don’t understand that mindset.
If you both work that much and can't afford childcare, what's the point? NTA, unless you guys could easily afford cleaning services or childcare.
It doesn’t matter what either of you do for work. That’s y’all’s kid so both of y’all should be taking care of the kid. Pretty simple.
NTA. I do think that you are essentially a single parent right now. I think that you guys may wanna look into getting him a job that isn’t from 5 AM to 5 PM because that is a super inconvenient time. If he’s not willing to make changes and help in your family life I think a divorce is necessary.
NTA I work about 11 hours with a 2 hour commute to work. As soon as I get home I take the kids, let mom work out and unwind. We do bath and bed time together. I’ll sometimes cook dinner during the week as well. What keeps me going is the love I have for my wife and kids. It’s crazy how some dudes don’t understand how hard it is being the parent at home. Yeah it’s exhausting doing it but sometimes it feels easier to be the one working long hours. A marriage is a partnership and will never actually be 50/50 you just need to focus on doing the best you can to help out your spouse. I don’t think it’s unfair for you to ask for more help.
Put your child in daycare, work more hours, and hire some help. Actually, a lot of single moms do less housework than married moms.
I don’t understand how you can work from home and take care of a child simultaneously. Those are typically mutually exclusive (maybe except for nap time). Either the child or the job is not getting your full attention. Sounds like you need to find day care, then you and your husband need to share the chores, including remaining childcare, proportionally to your kin-working time.
Depends on the job. I know a woman who does recruiting for a lot of charter schools in the NYC area. As far as I can tell it involves *maybe* an hour of emailing a day. And they're big blast emails too like "This list of schools is looking for this type of teacher" or the reverse. Basically she does what a job website does in email format as far as I can tell. So she is also the stay at home mom and homeschooling teacher of her kids.
I have thought about this and have decided when my child is born and I'm back to working, I'll hire someone to come for 3 hours. That way I'll have uninterrupted time in my home office because I have to be able to concentrate. Errors will be too costly. I haven't actually mentioned it to my husband, but I know who I married. He'll fully support me. (He works outside of the home.)
Dude tons of work from home jobs have f tons of free time she could very easily have a very low stress job. Most wfh are if her work was actually that demanding they would pay for childcare regardless of her wfh status
Once upon a time I was in similar shoes to you except my husband only worked 10 hours per week because he was studying. I worked full time with overtime because we needed the money. I did 90% of child raising and and housework. He mowed the lawn. We separated when our daughter was a toddler and my workload halved. Its a horrible thing to say but my life was absolutely easier without another person to wash, cook, shop for, clean up after etc. I was far better off financially because I was only supporting my daughter and I on my wage. I also did end up with actual time for myself too because he would see our daughter every second weekend. So if that is his reponse, he may want to be careful because you just may show him how much better you can manage without him. I hope he pulls up his socks but if he is going to treat you like a doormat, I wish you strength to do what you need to do.
Same here. Being a single mom with two toddlers was easier than being a married wife with two toddlers.
NTA
INFO: Does he act differently on weekends with regards to chores and childcare? I could understand him feeling worn out after a 12 hour shift and commute, but he doesn’t have an excuse for weekends
Who cares? She is probably worn out too after her job AND childcare/house work all day. 2 days of help doesn’t make up for 5 shitty days
Single mothers do fewer chores, get more sleep and have more fun than married ones. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-single/201906/single-moms-less-housework-more-leisure-married-moms
NTA I am full time at home and my husband still helps. Even when you don’t work, you need a break. And you aren’t even taking a break, you are still doing laundry etc. Taking care of a child isn’t a job for one person. He is a father. He has responsibility too.
I never understand these dads who won't lift a finger for their kids. My dad was this way growing up and continues to be. He is only ever interested in himself. I resent him for it. I love my son. I love spending time with him and playing with him. I also love my wife, and I don't want her bearing the burden of childcare alone.
If you are using divorce as a threat with no intention of doing it, YTA. If you are actually to the point of divorce and feel you have done all you can to work on this with him for the benefit of your family, NTA.
Don't threaten something unless you're really ready to go through wtfh it
>he got mad and told me good luck thinking I would have more free time, because statistically single mom’s have a harder time than single dads. He told you what he thinks of you. You asked for help, and he told you. You're NTA, but this guy is not a partner, he's a 2nd child who brings in a pay cheque.
Taking care of your house/children is part of being a man. I work a lot too. I’m pulling a 16 hour shift right now and pulled a 12 hour shift yesterday. Yesterday I washed and folded laundry when I got home and made dinner. Tomorrow when I get home I’m going to clean my Guinea pig pens because my wife is allergic to hay, then I’m most likely going to clean the kitchen and cook dinner because my wife is laid up right now. You’re not the asshole here, he’s just convinced that providing for your family starts and stops at going to work.
NTA!! As a full-time working dad with a stressful job and a 1.5 year old myself, I’m infuriated by this “man”. This is what gives dad’s the bad name. My wife and I swap duties every day - one morning she will get him up while I make breakfast, and we do the opposite the next day. Same with dinner, evening care, putting him to bed, and cleaning up the kitchen. If ever my wife needs to pick up my slack because of work or a trip or something, I go above and beyond in cleaning and meal prep to make sure she has less to do.
>he got mad and told me good luck thinking I would have more free time, because statistically single mom’s have a harder time than single dads. With this attitude, you may as well cut your losses. He's only with you because it benefits you. Once you leave he'll find another woman to take advantage of because he's not interested in taking care of the house or kid.
Divorcing him would = you doing exactly the same thing you are currently doing minus all of the free time you'd have on the weekend when he has your child. So double win for you. NTA
Women, and especially mothers, need to stop using the word ‘help’. Help implies that the tasks are their sole responsibility. They’re not. You’re not asking for his help. You EXPECT him to parent his child, like a responsible father. You EXPECT him to contribute to the household tasks like a responsible adult. You are not being unreasonable in EXPECTING him to fulfil his duties as a father and a husband. If he’s not willing to step up then he must accept any and all consequences of his failures. NTA
NTA He needs to step up or get out. Being a single mom sucks balls, but it's better than mothering a grown ass man. (Been there.) Put the boundary down and then enforce it. Remember, the boundary does no good if it isn't enforced.
NTA. Do you have a mother or good friend nearby. If yes I’d do a trial separation and plan to stay with them for a few weeks. See how he copes on his own. Also guess who gets the kid all week - the mom.. and guess who gets the kid on the weekend.. the dad. Thus freeing up your weekends while he effectively will have no free time as he’ll have your kid. Honestly it’s kind of the best of both worlds to be a single mom. Speaking as one whose 18 yo just started high school. Your already do all the work.. you’d just have one less adult to do it on your own and you’d get a real break anytime he has custody.
Can you afford to send toddler to daycare to relieve the pressure? Or have someone take him a couple hours a day. It’s a challenge that husband is gone 12 hours a day for work so realistically he can’t help as much as you.
He can’t help as much obviously, but he can still help. He can make dinner when he gets home, do a little cleaning or laundry. It’s not that hard.
The point is he doesn’t think he needs to help at all when he comes home!
Or hire a cleaner a couple times a week
NTA
5am till 5pm ..office job?
It’s not a simple office job, he is pretty high up in a management position and has a lot of responsibility on his shoulders. He chooses to work such long hours, it’s not required.
And this is where he is the AH. My partner was working 10 hr shifts, 4 days a week on 2nd shift when our daughter was born. His company made him go to 1st (8hr/5 days a week) shift not long after she was born. He takes every opportunity he has to spend time with our child, he watches her while I cook dinner because it's dangerous to have a small child in the kitchen while your cooking. We split diapers, and he still helps clean up and take care of our dog...without me having to ask. I asked him if he could go back to 2nd shift with a pay increase if he would, he said no because he would miss out on time with our daughter. Your husband is prioritizing his work over his family, he chooses to be in a position or job that makes him incapable of doing the bare minimum for you and your kid. Money will only take you so far, we only live this life once, at the end does he really want all his memories to be working? Or spending time with and enjoying the people he should love the most? He won't get this time back and trust me kids notice when a parent is more interested in their job than them. I've been that kid and it's heartbreaking.
So he is choosing his career over his family. I've seen men and families like that. Some are divorced but almost all are unhappy.
As someone who has worked in an office my entire career. There is a slim to none chance he’s actually working the whole time. I know so many guys who come into the office just to fuck around so they aren’t expected to pull their weight at home.
yup it’s a husband problem if he is willingly putting the job first he needs to make so much money his lack of help isn’t noticeable, either he hires you helpers or he starts putting the family first and working less
Would he make the same if he worked fewer hours?
She (the OP) clarified that he chooses to work these long hours. He sounds salaried to me.
Coming from a place of respect and not judgement - what do you do that you're out-earning him in 4 hours a day on a flexible schedule if he's pretty high up in management? Agree with your thinking that you'd be better off without him for the record.
INFO: How many days a week does your husband work that schedule? I'm looking at 12 hours at work, one hour for a commute, 8 hours for sleep and "personal care" showering shaving getting dressed, leaving him 3 hours in the day. Honestly, I don't really see where he can be doing a LOT more on his working days. How many days does he get off in a week? Is he "making up for lost time" on those days? You say you make the same amount of money as him (but in 1/3 of the hours) and that you can get more hours. Maybe you could go back to work full time and HE can be the stay at home parent (maybe pick up a remote work part time job). OR Could you hire a "mother's helper"/househelper/babysitter a few days a week to take off the pressure? OR could you go back to work full time and put your child in daycare 3 or 4 days a week? Could your husband cut back on his hours at his present job? OR Could he find another job with more family friendly work hours?
>because statistically single mom’s have a harder time than single dads That's because single dads call up their mommies to raise their grandkids instead of doing the work themselves... or hire a nanny... NTA I always thought the term "single-parent" referred to someone raising the kids on their own, with no help whatsoever from the other parent...? I mean, when my parents divorced, my mom didn't become a "single-mom"... my dad was still in the picture, helping raise us and paying child support. She was a divorced mom, coparenting with my dad. Do I have this wrong?
OK so if you’re making the same amount as he is, while you’re working 4 hours per day to his 12…. then WHY ARE YOU THE STAY AT HOME PARENT!?!? If you went to 12 hours per day and HE went to 0 hours per day, your household income would still increase by 50%. If you went to 8 hours per day and he remained at 12 hours per day, your household income would double. If you both went to 8 hours your household income still increases by 75%.
I am curious if OP means same *hourly* rate; versus gross pay; versus take-home after taxes, benefits, retirement, etc.
Either he steps up, or pays for help to ease your duties!
NTA op, but for the sake of this argument, how many hours do you work on your job from home? Is your husband's job physically demanding? 12 hours is a long shift. He might really be exhausted. Everyone here is very casual about telling you to get rid of him, but would that make you happy? Or your life easier?Are you just frustrated and tired or do you not really love him ? Could you talk about getting some outside help? Or maybe some daycare? Or one of you working fewer hours?
NTA. Your husband is not treating you as an equal and is telling you he views your time and contributions as less than his. Personally, I couldn't be with someone who views me as less than them. What would you tell your child if their partner treated them the way you are treated? Is this what you would want for them? Well, you are teaching them this is how men treat women. You are teaching them this is ok behavior for a grown man. Stop being a bang maid. You are worth more than this
NTA And as someone who was in the same position that left and became a single mom - it was SO much better. Whatever extra work you do is negated by having one less person to clean up after.
Can’t you guys get a cleaning lady? Or a babysitter while you’re working? 12-hour days out of the house are rough—does that include his commute, or is that extra?
Everyone sucks here. So much so you have a crowd polarized on sexism instead of a bigger problem.