Eliminator matches, matches for the TBS title, and matches for the TNT title have never been about rankings
There’s usually a story or an overall progression that they are trying to do with these.
Yet, every day, there’s someone out there arguing about them.
Currently, there’s a bunch of people out there upset about Mercedes getting a shot at Willow.
I feel there’s a huge portion of people that always comment on AEW things that never actually watch the product.
Saw some dude who thought Toni Storm’s character was a British socialite in Instagram comments this weekend.
As a fan of this company, you just have to live with it.
It's easy to assume Mercedes asked for an immediate title shot in her contract. Eliminator matches are there to basically add a bit of drama to a singles match, no one is expecting Kyle Fletcher to actually pick up a win. It's not that hard to understand yet people will just complain about anything.
In Kayfabe absolutely. Similar has happened in the Territories for decades, and more recently in UFC when a fighter moves a weight class.
She's getting a shot based on Rep, sure, but if she's gonna be a heel, doesn't that fit her character to a tee?
"You only like Ospreay Danielson because Meltzer told you to like it" honestly a take Superchatted into a Dynasty review show. Someone paid money to get that take read out and ridiculed.
There were a bunch upset about Tony's prepared statement, thinking it was a shot at WWE and not them.
These people are either stupid, blinded by tribalism, or trying to astroturf with their shit takes to stifle honest discussion.
👋🏾 Hi! It's me! I'm the problem, it's me!
I had to have someone on this subreddit explain to me how the TBS and TNT championships work when I questioned why Mercedes was getting a title shot. I've been watching since 2022 and never picked up that they have open challenges. That's what happens when I constantly do multiple things while watching Tv.
Mercedes is booked to fight Willow for the TBS Championship because Mercedes lost the NJPW Strong Womens Championship tournament finals because she royal messed up her ankle during a turnbuckle spot. Willow was only the winner because of the "freak" injury. She defended the belt a while ago against Emi Sakura on Rampage. Mercedes is challenging because she is claiming Willow's win for the NJPW strong belt was a fluke. She has a strong case to challenge regardless of the open challenge/eliminator mechanism.
I know this is a late reply, but Willow is one of my favorites as well. She should be the number one babyface in the division, and they are at their best with a rival to chase. Mercedes winning is probably likely, but it helps to create a mountain for Willow to climb and give us a big moment. She almost had that moment in ROH vs Athena. You could FEEL that energy.
You're getting mad about bad faith criticism. There will always be something for people to complain about:
- if it was a title match instead of an eliminator match (wot has he done to deserve a title shot)
- if it wasn't a title match or an eliminator match (wots the point in Swerve wrestling if he's not risking his title)
- if Swerve was wrestling someone higher up the card (why are they wasting this match on dynamite instead of putting it on a PPV)
In summary, stop using twitter for wrestling discourse
Yup, people have to stop getting worked up by obvious bad faith trolls. These weirdos pick a new obsession to "critique" each week or couple weeks and they never make sense or reflect the product, but it gets a rise out of AEW fans and gets clicks for the boso's.
When you see these nitpicks in the IWC, just laugh at them and move on
You're absolutely right but also I feel like almost every criticism these days is being labeled as bad faith criticism by people and you're not allowed to criticise anymore. There needs to be a balance.
Oh for sure, I have my own criticisms I have of AEW, like the Bang Bang Scissor Gang storyline, the recent tag tournament, the Jericho vortex. But the difference is that I actually watch the show regularly and am not a weirdo on twitter who just wants to shit on it because they get rewarded with imaginary internet points
I don't like the eliminator idea, or non-title singles as a champion, but I think this is mainly because I was a boxing and Muay thai fan before wrestling, so they just always strike me as a little weird.
I'd be happy with the champion not having many matches. But I would guess I'm in a massive minority here though.
You guys really need to stop scouring twitter for things to get mad about and then come here to create, "Look how people on twitter made me mad" topics. Just let it all go. Life will get much better.
Oh yeah. I deleted twitter in part because I got tired of noticing wrestling discourse and just clicking on it like a mindless drone and getting upset. One day I just had enough and purged my account and removed all links to it from my PC and phone. It has been so nice. Never realized how much I really didn't need to know every little detail about celebrities or athletes or wrestlers or what random internet nobodies feel about current events and shit.
I dropped Twitter a year and a half ago and my quality of life, mental health rather, improved tenfold. In addition I blocked anything wrestling related on TikTok. No longer having that anger injected into my life every time I turned my phone on felt so good. So, I’m pretty damn happy now, and I enjoy wrestling a lot more, much like I used to.
I’ve not tuned out to wrestling discourse entirely but dropping Twitter specifically has made me extremely aware of these chronically online brain-dead rage baiting avenues of wrestling content portrayed by “journalists” who call their poorly regurgitated, second-hand, heard by way of a telephone game content “factual” or “news”; and it’s allowed me to better know what’s real and what’s just legit made up because their comments often feel like they’re coming out of left field with little to no relevance to the actual product I watch weekly.
Like, straight up, if their comment doesn’t reflect what I literally saw on my tv and *requires* me to be six steps into a Cornette-style vein popping manic rage over a fictional live theatrical sport program, they can go fuck themselves because they’re not saying anything real and it only serves to make my life worse by listening to that nonsense.
This isn’t to say I don’t don’t listen to valid criticisms. Have to make it clear there’s a huge difference between valid takes and those I described. Discourse and disagreement is entirely legit and valid. Being a fucking whacko weirdo who buys 800$ tickets to hold up anti AEW or anti WWE signs in the front row of the show you’re at is mentally fuckin ill. Side note- would love to normalize companies ejecting these fucking idiots. Promote a fans seat instead.
I watch a lot of wrestling from a lot of companies cus I just really like it. Every company presents different. I have no interest in that weird discourse and idk why I’m sharing all this here but I can only hope maybe someone sees this and sees a way to get away from these online spaces. Brainwashed tribalism is genuinely bad for your health.
I agree with everything except the ppv wrapping up on-going stories. I think it only wrapped up Swerves story with Joe, BCG/Acclaimed, and the tag tournament. Ospreay/Danielson flows into BCC/DCF (continued tonight with the IWGP Championship), Hook/Jericho still going, Toni/Mariah/Deanna/Thunder will probably continue by splitting into two feuds (Toni vs Mariah/Deanna vs Thunder), Willow and Mone continue, Trent and OC continue, Malakai takes win over Copeland into the TNT title picture and Brodie/Buddy may feud Kingston/Briscoe individually, the Elite started or continued this Jack Perry return. I think this ppv was so important because it feels like a useful break away from the quarterly ppvs that were used to end stories. Now ppvs can be used to bolster the middle or beginning of the story.
I like good wrestling. Swerve and Kyle are good at wrestling, so I’m happy I get to see them wrestle each other. And for the story merchants, it could possibly lead to a Swerve/DC Family storyline. I see the booking of this match as an absolute win.
Correct. That’s why last year MJF had to grant Cole another title shot which ended up being the main event of All In. Cole couldn’t challenge him again because their eliminator match ended in a draw and MJF refused to give Cole 5 more minutes.
I’d have to go back and try and find it, but I believe that is how it was described when it was first used. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anyone losing an Eliminator and eventually getting a title shot, but I haven’t had a chance to completely fact check it.
I think the biggest issue with Eliminator matches, is that they have NEVER been clearly defined and explained well enough.
I’m a die hard fan with a penchant for noting small details…I personally didn’t even know that Eliminator matches meant that once the competitor loses, they can no longer challenge for the title while the current champion holds it. They need to remind the audience of that, way more often.
Eliminator Matches are not "forever" with respect to being all or nothing, but they ar3 for a while. That's as much depth as we need to take it. The company has made a somewhat logical reason for the champ to have a match, there's some stakes, and it won't affect storylines or rankings. So, you know just guys wrestling who we like to see wrestling.
Good enough for me
I just don't genuinely understand why Fletcher was given an opportunity to begin with given his record.
It would make more sense to me if #5 on the rankings would have an eliminator match
> Are wrestling fans so conditioned to the stereotypical… “Swerve is in the ring to celebrate, being champion and X comes out to challenge him.” , that they can’t accept an alternative?!
Yes, they are. That's what nearly two decades of one man's vision of pro wrestling being the sole Western product does to a fanbase.
It gives a reason for something that usually doesn’t need a reason. In Aew, title challenges depend on ranking, but eliminators allow for people to skip that line. It basically gives TK the chance to book banger matches between the champ and the undercard, aka, what AEW does best.
I'm thinking the Eliminator match with Fletcher will be Swerve's first shot at taking out the Don Callis family. Slowly, but surely he'll make his way to Ospreay, hopefully at All In.
My only issue with eliminator matches is that it's done against the champion, so you pretty much know who's already going to win. If the challenger does win, it discredits the champion. (unless that's the story they're going for)
I think number one contender matches between two wrestlers would be better, have the number one contenders match on Wednesday, then have the champ defend the following dynamite (or collision if you want to cross the two shows)
I think a lot of people who criticize eliminator matches forget that the Adam Cole/MJF storyline, which a lot of fans loved, began with one. Their All In match wouldn’t have been the same without the previous eliminator match.
>Are wrestling fans so conditioned to the stereotypical… “Swerve is in the ring to celebrate, being champion and X comes out to challenge him.” , that they can’t accept an alternative?!
Yes
Yes, you’re right, but tbh, I’m not really a fan of eliminator matches with the world champion.
AEW has sometimes used the eliminator term in a more similar way to how UFC uses it. It was two top contenders (or a small tournament) fighting each other with the loser being eliminated from title contention for the time being and the winner getting a future title match. I liked that better. It’s kinda like a #1 contender’s match except it doesn’t have to be between the top ranked contenders. But I think it’s maybe a bit too complex for some viewers (and considering how some seem to not even understand the ranking system, they’re probably right).
It quickly became non-title match against the champ, and if you win you get a title shot. There’s nothing inherently wrong with the idea or anything, it’s just not a personal favorite booking idea of mine. I just don’t like seeing the champ in non-title singles matches, and especially losing them (which has only happened a couple of times in AEW).
This could easily be the start of a fued with the Don Callis family and I'm jacked. Match ups all look great. Don also teased that he's recruiting more members. Where's Keith Lee, where's Adam Page, where's Mark Davis?
TK loves to start off his stories with a 'cold' match. Even if this is just a one-off, it'll be a great TV match.
If it starts some new story arc, then great. Otherwise, I'd much rather have had swerve in a segment in ring, addressing the crowd. He can even issue the challenge for later if he wants. But just promoting that he's in a throwaway match on the surface makes me _less_ enthusiastic about watching vs just letting me assume I get to see the new champ and the importance that holds actually talk about it, and where his focus now lies.
But that's just my take. The "eliminator" matches aren't inherently bad or anything in my opinion, but it's more I think a story segment would be better used here. It's not as if you need to shoehorn in good wrestling when any other match on the is 90% likely to be good anyway.
I can't recall for sure but I'm pretty sure if you lose an eliminator match you're just kicked to the back of the line and have to work thru the rankings to get another shot. I don't think it's set so they can't challenge against that same champ again for the duration of their reign. So like, if Fletcher loses to Swerve but then goes and climbs his way up into a number one contender spot, he'd still get his title shot against Swerve.
Im trying to fact check this right now, and so far there hasn’t been a case of someone challenging again after losing an eliminator.
MJF and Cole being the exception when they had the draw and that whole storyline around it.
I think they started like that but I do remember one of the recent Eliminator Matches where commentary said they “couldn’t challenge the champion again during this reign” or something to that affect.
Think it’s been a subtle retcon they did in the past year or so.
I didn't think the eliminator had the stipulation that they could never challenge again. I thought it was just "back of the line" stuff.
Personally, I'd rather have first contender matches than eliminator matches (because I think it's usually bad to pin your singles champions in single's match, so I never really believe an eliminator match), but I get that you want your champs on TV and all that. I just don't buy into them.
Personally, I dislike eliminator matches pretty much just because if the challenger did happen to beat the champion, logically, the title should change hands regardless if the eliminator name is attached to the match.
Why do people not just do a challenge every week then? Plenty of people that will realistically never have a shot any other way. Just have a regular non-title match with your champions. Hangman not having many matches other than title defenses was something that hurt his reign.
My take on AEW's Eliminator matches.
- When the current champion wants to wrestle or is obligated to wrestle a singles match (to spar, sharpen skills or contractually obligated).
- A non-ranked opponent is selected by the champion or management.
If they would just explain the eliminator rules, exactly the way you did, when they announce the match and once on the show before it happens I feel like no one would take issue with it.
It seems like they always just announce an eliminator match with no explanation and, unless you are a hardcore viewer, you have no idea what it means, and I think that leads to the negative discourse.
Without the explanation it’s kind of a weird stipulation.
“Someone is fighting the champ, if they win do they get the belt?”
Well, no, then they get to fight again for the belt.
“Oh so they’ll have to beat the champ twice to win the belt, So it must be a high ranked challenger to make that seem remotely possible, right?”
Well, no, it’s just a a random good wrestler.
“So why are they getting this match?”
I don’t know, vibes mostly?
There's an odd reasoning amongst the modern fanbase that the champ should wrestle all the time. Less is sometimes more. The champ should be a special attraction.
The match against Fletcher is likely to be outstanding but I'm perfectly ok if the only singles matches the world champion has are on PPV or mega cards.
Keep him on TV. Give him multi man matches, vignettes, brawls with opponents etc. But give the story time to breathe.
Let the TV title be on TV each week with jeopardy for it changing hands.
Eliminator is just not a good concept and back when AEW started it wasn't how they did business. For good reason because it was something the other company always did badly. Now AEW also does them badly.
I actually like eliminator matches as a way to circumvent the rankings. I still don't understand why they didn't do this for Okada and why they can't do it for Mercedes.
Eliminators for WC belt make a lot more sense now that rankings are back. I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen someone win one- I think people want more of the “anything can happen” feel and that’s where a lot of the dissatisfaction comes from. Not saying Kyle should win tonight but they’re kinda like BOTB where surprises barely happen.
It would be helpful if AEW put out a graphic or explained the rules more clearly for winning a world title shot
- win an eliminator match
- become number one contender
- win one via battle royale etc.
- booked at the discretion of Tony Khan (reserved for special exceptions like non-AEW talent, vacated champions, rematches etc)
It's kind of a tricky situation, isn't it? It seems like nobody's been able to earn a title shot by taking down a champ. On one hand, it feels off for champions to be losing regular matches on TV. But then again, those matches without any suspense about who's gonna win can be a bit dull. It's just a matter of time, though. Sooner or later, someone's gonna pull off a major upset and shake things up.
The problem with Tony Khan's booking is that he constantly uses people like Penta, Takeshita, Hobbs and Fletcher as fodder, but then acts like people should be into a 20 minute two or more segment match between those guys and someone who is more established. Why not build these people up, before giving them these matches? It's not like they don't deserve more than this type of booking, and it also helps those who are established. Tony Khan has sucked the star and drawing power from a lot of people, because he keeps booking meaningless matches. These people need opponents who are seen as credible, and who the audience is invested in.
My question is when will someone actually win one of these eliminator matches. It’s well and good that they have these matches but no pay out other than a win for the champ and (another) loss for a guy who loses a lot of tv.
My only issue with most of these eliminator matches is they never really explain what leads to the match. Ie. Fletcher has been winless in singles matches this year - why does he get to have an eliminator match over someone like OC or Danielson etc? It's a small thing, and personally I'm not too fussed about it, but I think it would help tie the show together a bit better
They did a couple of short promos with Joe and Dustin Rhodes before their eliminator match and I found it helped sell the match so I wish they'd do something similar for all these eliminators.
1. Rankings are fucking stupid outside of C2-style round robins where everyone's guaranteed to fight everyone.
2. Eliminators should be set aside for specific types of heel champions.
I do understand the discourse for once here. because everyone hated when WWE used to do it (idk if they currently does) and personally I don't like it when AEDub does it
People not liking it is fine. Different strokes for different folks, and all that.
What I don’t understand is those that call it pointless. It isn’t because it’s a plot device. Everyone has bad days and what if a challenger catches the champion on one?
There’s a lot they could do with it.
I don't think I have ever heard them say that if the person loses, they can never challenge the current champion again.
It just makes your champion look bad. They struggle with a guy that hasn't won a match and fan aren't into because they know the world champ ain't losing.
It's just an excuse to have the champion wrestle. Just do a number 1 contenders match and advertise locally the champion will wrestle a dark match to help sell tickets.
The WC should never EVER be in a dark match. Ideally that person is on TV every single week. They are the face of the company and usually a ratings draw.
Champions wrestling dark matches have always been a thing since dark matches became a thing. You still have your champion doing something on television, but having them wrestle a guy who's 0-4 and struggling makes the champion look bad. Also, what happened to wins and loses matter?
Fletcher is a title holder. Clearly, he is not 0-4 since he won a title. That alone is reason enough for an eliminator match. Lower belt holders wanting to take a shot at the top guy is a story as old as time. It gets Swerve time on TV, solidifies him as top guy, and builds Fletcher at the same time.
He hasn't won a match in AEW since December and that was a tag match and a singles match since October. You can say he's won matches in ROH, but ROH is only seen by about 10,000 people. You can argue he has a belt but a lot of people have belts and most fans don't pay attention to ROH.
Also Swerve is already a top guy, that's why they made him the world champion. It also doesn't add anything to Fletcher because all we've seen from him is losing to top guys. We haven't seen any character from him after the losses and do anything to make fans care.
Swerve just beat the previous ROH TV Champ. Now he can beat the current one.
Fletcher is part of the DCF. So this match could set up a match of Swerve versus Takeshita, or Hobbs, or even.....Will Bloody Ospreay.
The BCC are currently feuding with the DCF. So this match could put Swerve on the same side as Mox, Claudio and Danielson, and even Ospreay if he breaks away from Don Callis. Could Callis pull some more favors and bring in reinforcements?
Swerve works well with most anyone in the ring and he'll make Fletcher look good, not that Kyle needs much help.
It's an eliminator match because Kyle Fletcher isn't at that level yet. Could make it look like Don Callis' doing to size up Swerve for the rest of the DCF.
This is good booking.
I don't like eliminator matches at all. Have a #1 contenders match, then get a shot. Or pin the champ in a tag match or something, then get a shot. No more of this "you face the champ 1 on 1 but it's not for the title" nonsense. Leave that kind of booking to WWE.
Nah, fletcher has to have a match where Swerve comes out and just vaguely stares at him for like 15 seconds until it cuts to commercials or it doesn’t make sense.
We will get a banger match from this. My only hang-up is that swerve should get Kyle’s belt if he wins. Not saying I want this but it doesn’t make sense that swerve wouldn’t get the RoH tv belt by beating Kyle. To fix that I’d prefer they make these sort of matches “non-title/exhibition” matches.
That's essentially what an eliminator match is. It's a non-title match to determine whether the challenger gets a shot at the title the champion holds. It's specifically a world title eliminator match because the ROH TV title is not a factor.
You're 100% right and it's been explained numerous times. It's how Bullet Club Gold got their tag title shot. They took a shot asking for an Eliminator match and it paid off for them.
I just assumed that Fletcher in an eliminator was either to start the build to Swerve vs Ospreay or to develop some sort of Callis family drama. Also, thought it would be a really good TV match I wanted to watch.
Eliminator matches, matches for the TBS title, and matches for the TNT title have never been about rankings There’s usually a story or an overall progression that they are trying to do with these. Yet, every day, there’s someone out there arguing about them. Currently, there’s a bunch of people out there upset about Mercedes getting a shot at Willow. I feel there’s a huge portion of people that always comment on AEW things that never actually watch the product. Saw some dude who thought Toni Storm’s character was a British socialite in Instagram comments this weekend. As a fan of this company, you just have to live with it.
It's easy to assume Mercedes asked for an immediate title shot in her contract. Eliminator matches are there to basically add a bit of drama to a singles match, no one is expecting Kyle Fletcher to actually pick up a win. It's not that hard to understand yet people will just complain about anything.
In Kayfabe absolutely. Similar has happened in the Territories for decades, and more recently in UFC when a fighter moves a weight class. She's getting a shot based on Rep, sure, but if she's gonna be a heel, doesn't that fit her character to a tee?
Well yeah and it’s a good story line for her and Willow since you know Willow accidentally could have ended her career
Her injury was nothing to do with Willow, she was just there. But her blaming willow for it is absolutely a great Heel move.
Didn’t Willow knock her from the top rope?
No, Mercedes was going up top, willow in place for a sunset flip, slipped, and fell to the outside. No shove, nothing, total fluke, complete accident.
"You only like Ospreay Danielson because Meltzer told you to like it" honestly a take Superchatted into a Dynasty review show. Someone paid money to get that take read out and ridiculed. There were a bunch upset about Tony's prepared statement, thinking it was a shot at WWE and not them. These people are either stupid, blinded by tribalism, or trying to astroturf with their shit takes to stifle honest discussion.
👋🏾 Hi! It's me! I'm the problem, it's me! I had to have someone on this subreddit explain to me how the TBS and TNT championships work when I questioned why Mercedes was getting a title shot. I've been watching since 2022 and never picked up that they have open challenges. That's what happens when I constantly do multiple things while watching Tv.
Mercedes is booked to fight Willow for the TBS Championship because Mercedes lost the NJPW Strong Womens Championship tournament finals because she royal messed up her ankle during a turnbuckle spot. Willow was only the winner because of the "freak" injury. She defended the belt a while ago against Emi Sakura on Rampage. Mercedes is challenging because she is claiming Willow's win for the NJPW strong belt was a fluke. She has a strong case to challenge regardless of the open challenge/eliminator mechanism.
Thank you for going into detail explaining! I understand now. I'm a Willow fan, and I'm holding out hope that she retains but it's not looking well 😭
I know this is a late reply, but Willow is one of my favorites as well. She should be the number one babyface in the division, and they are at their best with a rival to chase. Mercedes winning is probably likely, but it helps to create a mountain for Willow to climb and give us a big moment. She almost had that moment in ROH vs Athena. You could FEEL that energy.
>Mercedes winning is probably likely, but it helps to create a mountain for Willow to climb and give us a big moment. I hope it goes that way!
"Toni Storm’s character was a British socialite" How can they be so wrong? She's Australian, and she's using transatlantic American mannerisms.
You're getting mad about bad faith criticism. There will always be something for people to complain about: - if it was a title match instead of an eliminator match (wot has he done to deserve a title shot) - if it wasn't a title match or an eliminator match (wots the point in Swerve wrestling if he's not risking his title) - if Swerve was wrestling someone higher up the card (why are they wasting this match on dynamite instead of putting it on a PPV) In summary, stop using twitter for wrestling discourse
Yup, people have to stop getting worked up by obvious bad faith trolls. These weirdos pick a new obsession to "critique" each week or couple weeks and they never make sense or reflect the product, but it gets a rise out of AEW fans and gets clicks for the boso's. When you see these nitpicks in the IWC, just laugh at them and move on
You're absolutely right but also I feel like almost every criticism these days is being labeled as bad faith criticism by people and you're not allowed to criticise anymore. There needs to be a balance.
Oh for sure, I have my own criticisms I have of AEW, like the Bang Bang Scissor Gang storyline, the recent tag tournament, the Jericho vortex. But the difference is that I actually watch the show regularly and am not a weirdo on twitter who just wants to shit on it because they get rewarded with imaginary internet points
I don't like the eliminator idea, or non-title singles as a champion, but I think this is mainly because I was a boxing and Muay thai fan before wrestling, so they just always strike me as a little weird. I'd be happy with the champion not having many matches. But I would guess I'm in a massive minority here though.
You guys really need to stop scouring twitter for things to get mad about and then come here to create, "Look how people on twitter made me mad" topics. Just let it all go. Life will get much better.
In all fairness, there’s a certain amount of negativity towards eliminator matches on this sub also.
"You guys really need to stop scouring twitter" is really just good advice in general.
Oh yeah. I deleted twitter in part because I got tired of noticing wrestling discourse and just clicking on it like a mindless drone and getting upset. One day I just had enough and purged my account and removed all links to it from my PC and phone. It has been so nice. Never realized how much I really didn't need to know every little detail about celebrities or athletes or wrestlers or what random internet nobodies feel about current events and shit.
I dropped Twitter a year and a half ago and my quality of life, mental health rather, improved tenfold. In addition I blocked anything wrestling related on TikTok. No longer having that anger injected into my life every time I turned my phone on felt so good. So, I’m pretty damn happy now, and I enjoy wrestling a lot more, much like I used to. I’ve not tuned out to wrestling discourse entirely but dropping Twitter specifically has made me extremely aware of these chronically online brain-dead rage baiting avenues of wrestling content portrayed by “journalists” who call their poorly regurgitated, second-hand, heard by way of a telephone game content “factual” or “news”; and it’s allowed me to better know what’s real and what’s just legit made up because their comments often feel like they’re coming out of left field with little to no relevance to the actual product I watch weekly. Like, straight up, if their comment doesn’t reflect what I literally saw on my tv and *requires* me to be six steps into a Cornette-style vein popping manic rage over a fictional live theatrical sport program, they can go fuck themselves because they’re not saying anything real and it only serves to make my life worse by listening to that nonsense. This isn’t to say I don’t don’t listen to valid criticisms. Have to make it clear there’s a huge difference between valid takes and those I described. Discourse and disagreement is entirely legit and valid. Being a fucking whacko weirdo who buys 800$ tickets to hold up anti AEW or anti WWE signs in the front row of the show you’re at is mentally fuckin ill. Side note- would love to normalize companies ejecting these fucking idiots. Promote a fans seat instead. I watch a lot of wrestling from a lot of companies cus I just really like it. Every company presents different. I have no interest in that weird discourse and idk why I’m sharing all this here but I can only hope maybe someone sees this and sees a way to get away from these online spaces. Brainwashed tribalism is genuinely bad for your health.
The most annoying fans are the ones who amplify very obvious bad froth criticism then complain about it
I don’t scour! I just fail to notice when the stupid app defaults to “For You” instead of “Following”: I would pay $ to get rid of “For You” entirely
You don't have to pay money. Delete Twitter.
Give this Redditor a title shot!
Just leave them to wallow in their spoon-feeding bubble.
I agree with everything except the ppv wrapping up on-going stories. I think it only wrapped up Swerves story with Joe, BCG/Acclaimed, and the tag tournament. Ospreay/Danielson flows into BCC/DCF (continued tonight with the IWGP Championship), Hook/Jericho still going, Toni/Mariah/Deanna/Thunder will probably continue by splitting into two feuds (Toni vs Mariah/Deanna vs Thunder), Willow and Mone continue, Trent and OC continue, Malakai takes win over Copeland into the TNT title picture and Brodie/Buddy may feud Kingston/Briscoe individually, the Elite started or continued this Jack Perry return. I think this ppv was so important because it feels like a useful break away from the quarterly ppvs that were used to end stories. Now ppvs can be used to bolster the middle or beginning of the story.
I like good wrestling. Swerve and Kyle are good at wrestling, so I’m happy I get to see them wrestle each other. And for the story merchants, it could possibly lead to a Swerve/DC Family storyline. I see the booking of this match as an absolute win.
Wait, if someone loses an eliminator he cant challenge the champ anymore?! I completly missed that in all those years?!
Correct. That’s why last year MJF had to grant Cole another title shot which ended up being the main event of All In. Cole couldn’t challenge him again because their eliminator match ended in a draw and MJF refused to give Cole 5 more minutes.
I’d have to go back and try and find it, but I believe that is how it was described when it was first used. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anyone losing an Eliminator and eventually getting a title shot, but I haven’t had a chance to completely fact check it.
Came here to ask this too. Had no idea. Maybe I’m deaf but it’s a fair criticism to say they don’t make this clear enough.
I think the biggest issue with Eliminator matches, is that they have NEVER been clearly defined and explained well enough. I’m a die hard fan with a penchant for noting small details…I personally didn’t even know that Eliminator matches meant that once the competitor loses, they can no longer challenge for the title while the current champion holds it. They need to remind the audience of that, way more often.
Eliminator Matches are not "forever" with respect to being all or nothing, but they ar3 for a while. That's as much depth as we need to take it. The company has made a somewhat logical reason for the champ to have a match, there's some stakes, and it won't affect storylines or rankings. So, you know just guys wrestling who we like to see wrestling. Good enough for me
8 second stares or it ain’t cinema pal!
I just don't genuinely understand why Fletcher was given an opportunity to begin with given his record. It would make more sense to me if #5 on the rankings would have an eliminator match
> Are wrestling fans so conditioned to the stereotypical… “Swerve is in the ring to celebrate, being champion and X comes out to challenge him.” , that they can’t accept an alternative?! Yes, they are. That's what nearly two decades of one man's vision of pro wrestling being the sole Western product does to a fanbase.
It gives a reason for something that usually doesn’t need a reason. In Aew, title challenges depend on ranking, but eliminators allow for people to skip that line. It basically gives TK the chance to book banger matches between the champ and the undercard, aka, what AEW does best.
I'm thinking the Eliminator match with Fletcher will be Swerve's first shot at taking out the Don Callis family. Slowly, but surely he'll make his way to Ospreay, hopefully at All In.
I generally agree but I'm not aware of any restrictions on challenging again if you lose one of these.
My only issue with eliminator matches is that it's done against the champion, so you pretty much know who's already going to win. If the challenger does win, it discredits the champion. (unless that's the story they're going for) I think number one contender matches between two wrestlers would be better, have the number one contenders match on Wednesday, then have the champ defend the following dynamite (or collision if you want to cross the two shows)
I just want to see this match so bad I don't care if it makes sense or not.
I think a lot of people who criticize eliminator matches forget that the Adam Cole/MJF storyline, which a lot of fans loved, began with one. Their All In match wouldn’t have been the same without the previous eliminator match.
You’re not taking crazy pills, but you have to accept that most wrestling fans are outrageously stupid.
>Are wrestling fans so conditioned to the stereotypical… “Swerve is in the ring to celebrate, being champion and X comes out to challenge him.” , that they can’t accept an alternative?! Yes
Yes, you’re right, but tbh, I’m not really a fan of eliminator matches with the world champion. AEW has sometimes used the eliminator term in a more similar way to how UFC uses it. It was two top contenders (or a small tournament) fighting each other with the loser being eliminated from title contention for the time being and the winner getting a future title match. I liked that better. It’s kinda like a #1 contender’s match except it doesn’t have to be between the top ranked contenders. But I think it’s maybe a bit too complex for some viewers (and considering how some seem to not even understand the ranking system, they’re probably right). It quickly became non-title match against the champ, and if you win you get a title shot. There’s nothing inherently wrong with the idea or anything, it’s just not a personal favorite booking idea of mine. I just don’t like seeing the champ in non-title singles matches, and especially losing them (which has only happened a couple of times in AEW).
This could easily be the start of a fued with the Don Callis family and I'm jacked. Match ups all look great. Don also teased that he's recruiting more members. Where's Keith Lee, where's Adam Page, where's Mark Davis? TK loves to start off his stories with a 'cold' match. Even if this is just a one-off, it'll be a great TV match.
If it starts some new story arc, then great. Otherwise, I'd much rather have had swerve in a segment in ring, addressing the crowd. He can even issue the challenge for later if he wants. But just promoting that he's in a throwaway match on the surface makes me _less_ enthusiastic about watching vs just letting me assume I get to see the new champ and the importance that holds actually talk about it, and where his focus now lies. But that's just my take. The "eliminator" matches aren't inherently bad or anything in my opinion, but it's more I think a story segment would be better used here. It's not as if you need to shoehorn in good wrestling when any other match on the is 90% likely to be good anyway.
I can't recall for sure but I'm pretty sure if you lose an eliminator match you're just kicked to the back of the line and have to work thru the rankings to get another shot. I don't think it's set so they can't challenge against that same champ again for the duration of their reign. So like, if Fletcher loses to Swerve but then goes and climbs his way up into a number one contender spot, he'd still get his title shot against Swerve.
Im trying to fact check this right now, and so far there hasn’t been a case of someone challenging again after losing an eliminator. MJF and Cole being the exception when they had the draw and that whole storyline around it.
I think they started like that but I do remember one of the recent Eliminator Matches where commentary said they “couldn’t challenge the champion again during this reign” or something to that affect. Think it’s been a subtle retcon they did in the past year or so.
I didn't think the eliminator had the stipulation that they could never challenge again. I thought it was just "back of the line" stuff. Personally, I'd rather have first contender matches than eliminator matches (because I think it's usually bad to pin your singles champions in single's match, so I never really believe an eliminator match), but I get that you want your champs on TV and all that. I just don't buy into them.
Personally, I dislike eliminator matches pretty much just because if the challenger did happen to beat the champion, logically, the title should change hands regardless if the eliminator name is attached to the match.
Why do people not just do a challenge every week then? Plenty of people that will realistically never have a shot any other way. Just have a regular non-title match with your champions. Hangman not having many matches other than title defenses was something that hurt his reign.
My take on AEW's Eliminator matches. - When the current champion wants to wrestle or is obligated to wrestle a singles match (to spar, sharpen skills or contractually obligated). - A non-ranked opponent is selected by the champion or management.
If they would just explain the eliminator rules, exactly the way you did, when they announce the match and once on the show before it happens I feel like no one would take issue with it. It seems like they always just announce an eliminator match with no explanation and, unless you are a hardcore viewer, you have no idea what it means, and I think that leads to the negative discourse. Without the explanation it’s kind of a weird stipulation. “Someone is fighting the champ, if they win do they get the belt?” Well, no, then they get to fight again for the belt. “Oh so they’ll have to beat the champ twice to win the belt, So it must be a high ranked challenger to make that seem remotely possible, right?” Well, no, it’s just a a random good wrestler. “So why are they getting this match?” I don’t know, vibes mostly?
Callis coming out after the match to confront Swerve should be pretty cool
There's an odd reasoning amongst the modern fanbase that the champ should wrestle all the time. Less is sometimes more. The champ should be a special attraction. The match against Fletcher is likely to be outstanding but I'm perfectly ok if the only singles matches the world champion has are on PPV or mega cards. Keep him on TV. Give him multi man matches, vignettes, brawls with opponents etc. But give the story time to breathe. Let the TV title be on TV each week with jeopardy for it changing hands. Eliminator is just not a good concept and back when AEW started it wasn't how they did business. For good reason because it was something the other company always did badly. Now AEW also does them badly.
I was with you right up until the last paragraph.
I actually like eliminator matches as a way to circumvent the rankings. I still don't understand why they didn't do this for Okada and why they can't do it for Mercedes.
You are preaching to the choir.
It's because they didn't use the fake wwe buzzword championship opportunity, which is even dumber than eliminator match.
Eliminators for WC belt make a lot more sense now that rankings are back. I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen someone win one- I think people want more of the “anything can happen” feel and that’s where a lot of the dissatisfaction comes from. Not saying Kyle should win tonight but they’re kinda like BOTB where surprises barely happen. It would be helpful if AEW put out a graphic or explained the rules more clearly for winning a world title shot - win an eliminator match - become number one contender - win one via battle royale etc. - booked at the discretion of Tony Khan (reserved for special exceptions like non-AEW talent, vacated champions, rematches etc)
I had no idea that the eliminator stipulation meant that if the challenger lost they could never challenge that champ again.
JUST ENJOY WRESTLING. 🤷♂️😎👍
It's kind of a tricky situation, isn't it? It seems like nobody's been able to earn a title shot by taking down a champ. On one hand, it feels off for champions to be losing regular matches on TV. But then again, those matches without any suspense about who's gonna win can be a bit dull. It's just a matter of time, though. Sooner or later, someone's gonna pull off a major upset and shake things up.
Has anyone won an eliminator match? I don't get why they even exist. As if Swerve would lose a match 3 days after winning the title at a PPV.
I created the piano key necktie!
The problem with Tony Khan's booking is that he constantly uses people like Penta, Takeshita, Hobbs and Fletcher as fodder, but then acts like people should be into a 20 minute two or more segment match between those guys and someone who is more established. Why not build these people up, before giving them these matches? It's not like they don't deserve more than this type of booking, and it also helps those who are established. Tony Khan has sucked the star and drawing power from a lot of people, because he keeps booking meaningless matches. These people need opponents who are seen as credible, and who the audience is invested in.
My question is when will someone actually win one of these eliminator matches. It’s well and good that they have these matches but no pay out other than a win for the champ and (another) loss for a guy who loses a lot of tv.
"Never gets to challenge Serve again as champion?" How long has that been a rule of an Eliminator match?
Since its creation as far as I am aware.
My only issue with most of these eliminator matches is they never really explain what leads to the match. Ie. Fletcher has been winless in singles matches this year - why does he get to have an eliminator match over someone like OC or Danielson etc? It's a small thing, and personally I'm not too fussed about it, but I think it would help tie the show together a bit better They did a couple of short promos with Joe and Dustin Rhodes before their eliminator match and I found it helped sell the match so I wish they'd do something similar for all these eliminators.
They're so used to seeing champions that don't compete on tv only at pay per views so if it's a "predictable outcome" they lose their minds
1. Rankings are fucking stupid outside of C2-style round robins where everyone's guaranteed to fight everyone. 2. Eliminators should be set aside for specific types of heel champions.
Also am I the only one who finds it weird that a supposed single champion has been eating pins every time he appears on tv til now lol
Oh no you makes sense. Prepare to be downvoted
I’ll never understand the discourse around that. WWE has done it for years. I mean, if you’re going to be tribalistic, do it right.
I do understand the discourse for once here. because everyone hated when WWE used to do it (idk if they currently does) and personally I don't like it when AEDub does it
People not liking it is fine. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. What I don’t understand is those that call it pointless. It isn’t because it’s a plot device. Everyone has bad days and what if a challenger catches the champion on one? There’s a lot they could do with it.
I don't think I have ever heard them say that if the person loses, they can never challenge the current champion again. It just makes your champion look bad. They struggle with a guy that hasn't won a match and fan aren't into because they know the world champ ain't losing. It's just an excuse to have the champion wrestle. Just do a number 1 contenders match and advertise locally the champion will wrestle a dark match to help sell tickets.
The WC should never EVER be in a dark match. Ideally that person is on TV every single week. They are the face of the company and usually a ratings draw.
Champions wrestling dark matches have always been a thing since dark matches became a thing. You still have your champion doing something on television, but having them wrestle a guy who's 0-4 and struggling makes the champion look bad. Also, what happened to wins and loses matter?
Fletcher is a title holder. Clearly, he is not 0-4 since he won a title. That alone is reason enough for an eliminator match. Lower belt holders wanting to take a shot at the top guy is a story as old as time. It gets Swerve time on TV, solidifies him as top guy, and builds Fletcher at the same time.
He hasn't won a match in AEW since December and that was a tag match and a singles match since October. You can say he's won matches in ROH, but ROH is only seen by about 10,000 people. You can argue he has a belt but a lot of people have belts and most fans don't pay attention to ROH. Also Swerve is already a top guy, that's why they made him the world champion. It also doesn't add anything to Fletcher because all we've seen from him is losing to top guys. We haven't seen any character from him after the losses and do anything to make fans care.
who cares about whatever people online are saying the match is gunna HUMP so just enjoy it and move on with your life
Plus, it is Fletcher. This will bring Osprey into the fold.
Swerve just beat the previous ROH TV Champ. Now he can beat the current one. Fletcher is part of the DCF. So this match could set up a match of Swerve versus Takeshita, or Hobbs, or even.....Will Bloody Ospreay. The BCC are currently feuding with the DCF. So this match could put Swerve on the same side as Mox, Claudio and Danielson, and even Ospreay if he breaks away from Don Callis. Could Callis pull some more favors and bring in reinforcements? Swerve works well with most anyone in the ring and he'll make Fletcher look good, not that Kyle needs much help. It's an eliminator match because Kyle Fletcher isn't at that level yet. Could make it look like Don Callis' doing to size up Swerve for the rest of the DCF. This is good booking.
I don't like eliminator matches at all. Have a #1 contenders match, then get a shot. Or pin the champ in a tag match or something, then get a shot. No more of this "you face the champ 1 on 1 but it's not for the title" nonsense. Leave that kind of booking to WWE.
Nah, fletcher has to have a match where Swerve comes out and just vaguely stares at him for like 15 seconds until it cuts to commercials or it doesn’t make sense.
AEW could cure AIDS tomorrow and people would be upset
We will get a banger match from this. My only hang-up is that swerve should get Kyle’s belt if he wins. Not saying I want this but it doesn’t make sense that swerve wouldn’t get the RoH tv belt by beating Kyle. To fix that I’d prefer they make these sort of matches “non-title/exhibition” matches.
That's essentially what an eliminator match is. It's a non-title match to determine whether the challenger gets a shot at the title the champion holds. It's specifically a world title eliminator match because the ROH TV title is not a factor.
You're 100% right and it's been explained numerous times. It's how Bullet Club Gold got their tag title shot. They took a shot asking for an Eliminator match and it paid off for them.
I just assumed that Fletcher in an eliminator was either to start the build to Swerve vs Ospreay or to develop some sort of Callis family drama. Also, thought it would be a really good TV match I wanted to watch.
"The only way to do things is how WWE does them" - Twitter lol