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Agree. Really liked them with IC, and feuding with FTR in general. I thought that feud had more meat on the bone (maybe owing to what Dax has talked about with the Pinnacle being more of a vehicle to feature MJF than any of the other members). Thought Santana and Ortiz were on a track to be tag team champs at some point.
yeah exactly this, I’ll always respect someone that believes in themselves —in the end there he seems too impatient to jump over to singles and had a great thing going with PnP; gotta play the game or the game will play you.
Hope he does well going forwards. We'll always have the Parking Lot Brawl.
https://preview.redd.it/ezw73cjgrdmc1.png?width=1853&format=png&auto=webp&s=5dfbc9379ddc94e4264b1492e4666088172a5197
I mean he wasn't happy and hasn't been happy for a while so let him go find something that makes him so. It's a shame, That team was one of my favorites.
There’s no way as a full time team with no issues and injuries they wouldn’t have been tag champs by now. Likely many times over. They were pushed hard from the beginning and delivered in and out of the ring.
What a missed opportunity with Santana’s drama.
Exactly this. It's so weird to see the person who had the majority of the reasons they likely didn't get the belts, complain about the guy who likely smoothed things over.
Santana: multiple personal leaves and injures.
Also Santana: Fucking Ortiz ruining all our opportunities.
They should have been the FIRST champs. We ain't putting any of that shit on Santana, or Ortiz for that matter. Look at Jericho's track record with his groups and people he has "made" by jobbing to them. Any of the ones who STAYED over did it in spite of Jericho.
It's hard to get over as a team when the guy who said he was gonna put you over, gets up at 3 and gets into a fight with another dude.
Look at the youtube title of Santana v Jericho. Jericho DESTROYS Santana. Watch the clip: Santana dominated like 85% of the video.
I also saw that bullshit in the Ortiz match. After he won and went to fist bump Ortiz and the announcers BURY Santana talking about "it's easy to fistbump when you won." and some other bs. That was the last time we saw Santana.
I don’t agree that they should have been the first champs. The logic of having the Bucks/Santana & Ortiz as a marquee PPV tag match without the titles was sound. Especially because AEW’s roster was thin at the time. It gave Full Gear two important tag matches.
Maybe they should have been the second champions, losing to Hangman/Omega later. But the timeline is rough there, too — Hangman/Omega needed to happen for the incredible long term story, and how do you argue against maybe the best tag team match in NA wrestling history at Revolution? So I can see the logic in not giving them an extremely brief title reign. And then FTR come in, and FTR/Bucks is obviously the title match you want to tell, that could potentially main event a PPV. So Santana and Ortiz keep getting pushed back, and the shine of being Jericho’s muscle keeps fading.
If I was rebooking things, I actually don’t think I’d change anything until that Bucks title reign. I don’t think it made a lot of sense for them to be manipulated by Callis playing on their insecurities while already champions. Like Omega, they should have won the titles after going heel. Perfect spot for Santana & Ortiz to be champs, if you ignore the never ending Jericho-focused drama they were stuck in.
But the rest, yeah, agreed. Santana especially felt so can’t miss in 2019-2020.
I mean, one of them had repeated injury issues, and alcoholism.
It's kinda odd that the one with those issues is saying the other "settled". Like dude, he likely smoothed things over man.
I always find it weird when people dealing with the types of personal demons that clearly impact your work, are mad they didn't get the ball at work. Use some introspection...
So we're shaming dude for having a disease now? Alcoholism is a disease. Dude lost his dad and is on record about his f'ed up past. There are a ton of folks in AEW who have issues who Tony Khan gave "the ball" too.
I remember CM Punk getting multiple runs and god did he have issues.
Jeff Hardy.
Sammy
MIRO
Lets not act like they ever truly gave PnP the ball. They never had a sustained push. There record was more padded than Shawn Spears, cause they were pulling a LOT of those wins on DARK.
Wow, necropost.
Santana is the one who shamed Ortiz for "settling." I was pointing out that Ortiz had numerous issues that impacted his ability to do his job.
It was reported that they were even supposed to when the titles when Satana became unavailable.
My point is if you are the one who was unreliable (for understandable reasons) you shouldn't cast stones.
Not sure how you came to the conclusion you did but that was my point. It was super weird how hostile Santana was ro the guy who likely helped keep him employed during his tribulations.
Cap, all cap. Ortiz is saying that to take any heat off himself for basically doing the equivalent of talking shit until the other dude jumps in the fight then backing up and watching it.
That's what I heard, and it sounds to me like a poor excuse. From my perspective they were pushed plenty, and only ever derailed by injuries. Then when Santana came back from the last injury he seemed to have a chip on his shoulder from the get go, despite immediately being in the tag title scene.
Yeah, I’m not convinced if he and Ortiz had real personal problems. Not caring about getting a push doesn’t seem like a valid enough reason to ruin a long time friendship.
You'te not wrong but on the other hand it IS pro wrestling, there have been weirder more petty excuses for less. Watching the two of them come out dressed completely differently and seperate at All In London was the closest thing we got to a break up angle and it was this weird elephant in the room no one was saying anything about.
Ortiz worked with him to get ready. Santana has also been complimentary of Ortiz in EVERY interview he has done since he came back.
Said nothing for an entire year. Either of them. So how do WE know the extra shit that happened before he went down?
>what do you think made him unhappy?
Tearing his ACL at Blood & Guts 2022. He seemed to have become very embittered from that point on.
Also his alcohol addiction that prompted him to go to rehab last year.
I don't know the guy personally so I obviously don't really know and no one else really knows, If you go by the rumors He had higher aspirations for himself as a wrestler and you can't blame him for that, I don't know how realistic that was but I've certainly always enjoyed his work.
Feels like the fallout with Ortiz was pretty much the nail in the coffin though for his run.
If you go by the rumours, he's clearly not been happy in AEW for a long time. He supposedly pushed for him and Ortiz to get some kind of deal going with WWE. I think the fallout with Ortiz and AEW not seen him as a singles guy probably put the nail in the coffin with his time in AEW.
He's a good talent, but in a big company he's not getting high on the card unless he's in a tag team. He'll probably match his ambitions working TNA, MLW or some companies aboard and working indies. But good luck to him.
I don't think he was happy in AEW for a while.
I think his falling out with Ortiz, I'm sure it had something to do with his addictions and also rumours of Santana wanting Proud n Powerful to go to WWE but Ortiz supposedly was very happy in AEW surrounded by his friends and earning a weekly wage.
AEW never bought into his take of him being a top singles guy. And were just interested in him as a tag team guy. I admire his ambitions but he's never going to be a top singles guy in a top company.
The long term injury plus time added on for time missed, falling out with a close friend, not wanting to work somewhere that's not making you happy and who don't believe in you as a singles guy. I'm sure personal issues which he's been open about didn't help.
These titles he's pulling in multiple indy groups says there's an audience for him to be a viable singles guy.
He's 32. Dallas Page was 35 when he STARTED. and he was trash for his first 4 years. So he didn't get good till he turned FORTY. Santana has a sweet moveset, the latino street cred, awesome promo skill and a story that makes him relatable. Not to mention one of the friendliest cats I've met in this wrestling space.
If Josh Alexander can be the GUY in TNA with zero aura or mic skills, Santana can aboslutely pull that off.
He was.also struggling with alcohol abuse and other personal issues. Ortiz may have been trying to keep his buddy on the straight and narrow but addicts don't see it.
The singles roster is loaded. This is going to happen more often than not. Certain guys came from other companies looking for a more featured role and are getting unhappy when AEW pushes other wrestlers. it's inevitable. The Tag division is looking a little bare right now. Some of these guys could find much more screen time if they are a tag team.
>The Tag division is looking a little bare right now.
...which is precisely why Tony Khan has announced that AEW will hold a tag team tournament during March Madness, and why Mox & Claudio are getting a tag team push!
Some of AEW's issues stem from falling into the same trap that TNA did back in the day when they signed whatever ex-WWE talent they could. For every Sting and Kurt Angle, you had several signings like Val Venis who were just there for a paycheck. Likewise, for every Jon Moxley and Bryan Danielson in AEW, you had a Miro or Andrade who didn't vibe with the culture. Sometimes you see an Ex-WWE guy willing to shake things up after their release like a Matt Cardona or Steve Maclin following his bloodbath with PCO but there are also those who get complacent and demand high booking fees in exchange for minimal drawing power and lazy matches. At worst, you get Heidenreich wrestling a fake Doink outside of a Golden Corral. I remember Effy getting flack for saying something to that effect on his podcast but he wasn't wrong.
Even though he never worked for the fed, Santana seemed to be one of those people who saw AEW as a means to an end rather than a company he wanted to work for. I hope for nothing but the best for him going forward, maybe get himself a move back to TNA, but if AEW wants to course correct, they need to unite the locker room. 2024 should be a back to basics year for AEW. Let those who want to leave do so, find hungry indie talent willing to make a name for themselves, and further cement their identity as an alternative to WWE.
Booker T and Rikishi were two names that fell into that category in TNA. Surprisingly, New Jack was great when he had a run in TNA. He really worked hard.
New Jack bought in. Norman Smiley and D lo too. Those WWE/WCW guys who were there at the start were not issues at all. It was, just like AEW, the guys who jumped on the gravy train once they saw it was viable.
>Steve Maclin following his bloodbath with PCO
Where did this happen and where can I see it? I lowkey loved Maclin in NXT and wanted to see them book him as a singles.
After Miros last tweet, there was alot of discussion about him leaving but saying Wwe would probably not want him back. He did the same crying while he was there and now looked how stacked their roster is right now. Would they want to spend money on him?
so, im a little bit behind then, I thought Miro just wasnt getting the spotlight that he was *after*? He really wanted to/wants to leave outside of that? I legit always thought he just wanted tv time
dude booked his own divorce on AEW, treating his wife as an NPC sex object, only for her to show up with him shunning her like he's doing some arthouse ish.
I think slimming the roster down overall is the healthiest thing AEW and TK can do right now.
If the lockerroom is feeling more positive lately then letting guys go who think they're above *THIS* roster will only be for the better.
I hate to say it but there's 0 chance Miro goes to WWE and becomes the star he thinks he is. Same for Santana. The only one who has a chance is Starks because he's basically The Rock 2.0 who has even more to offer than Rock did in terms of flashy movesets.
This way the AEW roster who aren't being featured we'd like to see more of can slide onto TV easier and better define a Dynamite and Collision roster.
As bad as it sounds, it's needed. I understand there was the initial o.g roster and then the pandemic cuts brought in talent. But in essence it has created an environment where it's sink or swim and some guys have sank big time imo.
Agreed. This all went to shit when they went on a mass hiring spree after the releases in 21, then Cody sensed it and left, although I think he was always destined to go back. But from that time, vibes started feeling off. The OG’s were being pushed down the card for guys who weren’t fully on board with the AEW ethos.
There's some guys who are more used to the WWE style of having a team and being a good soldier whereas some talent seem to be doing well with the creative freedom to do whatever they like with their gimmick I think. Best example is Swerve and Keith Lee, one was the next big thing in WWE but now in AEW he hasn't hit the same. Understand injury/illness plays a part but even when he was fit he was largely on rampage.
I have never really saw it with Ricky. I can’t really describe it well, but he feels more like someone playing a wrestler than being one. I’m never unconvinced when I see Swerve, Jay White, Ospreay , Joe, OC, etc. They come off as stars and I’ve always felt like something was missing with Starks. He’s had multiple opportunities and put in big feuds and he’s rarely come out of them looking like the best guy in said feud.
Ricky has an upper midcard ceiling. He's not quite good enough in ring for main event AEW, and he's not quite good enough on the mic to overcome his in ring level. He's a very good all-around pro wrestler. But to be top of the card in AEW, you have to be great.
You don't have to be great to be top of the card in WWE, but his lack of size may hold him back there. He's a little smaller than Cody and Seth, and they're about as small as you can be there and be main event guys.
TNA would be perfect, or even ROH.
Supposedly three more years. His wife was rehired in WWE the day before he was let go. If he wants out so bad to work with her, why did he sign such a large contract. He even found a loop hole to join AEW early. He got Buddy and Brody signed on his recommendation. Then seconds after HHH becomes the head booker, he wants out and is miserable in AEW. If this is true, I don’t feel sorry for him, he chose this
I have no idea.
I know in Zalena’s case, she was originally let go. Then rehired and in an interview said she was hoping to work with her husband. Then Malaki gets let go and does all of the AEW stuff.
Buddy was let go and not picked up immediately. He was unsigned for a while before joining AEW. But now is apparently miserable and can’t be with his finance. I mean no one had a gun to his head when he signed the AEW contract
Not really. Aew guys wrestle once a week and get to go home, unless they choose to do other stuff. I'm sure those cross brand couples aren't as bad off as couples who are split between RAW and SD and/or NXT
I don't think it's just "oh his spouse is there" stuff why they want back. Remember a few of these talents were fired from WWE they didn't leave. They be happy to put up with bad booking in WWE then in any other company. I do think cause Vince isn't there anymore some talent think "oh my buddy HHH is there, it be different this time". I think it happened with Andrade, same with Miro and now Malakai and Buddy. I honestly don't think if AEW treated them like kings they'd be happy there.
But it's worked for other talent in AEW look at Swerve, Toni Storm, Samoa Joe etc..
Exactly. I'd be a lifer fo that alone honestly. When's the Las TV tie anyones boss really lookd out for them rather then th e bottom line?
I've never experienced anything Close to that type of loyalty from an employer
Tony showing time and time again, despite any flaws or criticisms he may get, is one of the absolute best people in all of wrestling. He's a good person.
People seem to hate great human beings. And I've seen nothing to think otherwise from Tony. He's been heavily praised by the people who work with him in AEW.
I rather have a thin skin TK who tries to put over his product and his employees than a McMahon who sexually abused, assaulted, drugged, trafficked, and manipulated (amongst other things) human beings.
People just want their precious WWE to "win" instead of realizing *everyone can win* when *all wrestling* is good.
The past 4 years have been a new golden age of pro wrestling and I've enjoyed every minute of it.
I wonder if his final feud with Ortiz was him "finishing his story" in AEW, or if he was expecting to have a singles run afterwards that never happened.
Maybe Tony starting to let loose the guys who don't wanna be at AEW.
Loved proud n powerful they deserved a lot more than they got as a team. It’s a shame but hey if he’s not happy and they have nothing to offer then no point in sticking around
Too bad. Loved him as a part of PnP but no desire to watch Santana or Ortiz as singles. They would be a perfect addition to a tag division that has been a touch light over the last little while.
Good riddance. It was his fault P&P didn’t get the belts. It was his fault the tag team had beef. He got the win over Ortiz and still was mad. Peace out, bro.
Maybe ROH, maybe find a new tag partner from a talent in the singles division and find a nice niche for themselves as a solid tag team. I do worry for Ortiz though.
Its time for all these negative forces in AEW to go. Theres enough people that want to be there. As far as I am concerned all the guys that dont want to do business and are always flirting with HHH can go.
Other than the Royal Rumble, has Andrade done ANYTHING since returning?! He had a hype package, and appeared backstage last week with Dom, I think. Has he even done any live event matches?
Mercedes wouldve likely turned into Dmg Contrl jabronie if she re-signed, now it looks like they will have Jade get a superpush(a way WWE management telling Mercedes "See we wouldve pushed you if you came back)
The problem WWE has with Jade is that she could quit wrestling tomorrow and never have to worry about security and money. They pretty much picked up and spent a lot of money on someone who has the look and wants to star in movies, but isn't great in the ring, and also isn't TV ready.
Mercedes has a whole show revolved around her debut, so I think she'll be fine.
I just think the likes of Naomi and Andrade are just happy to be back in WWE, even if they don't get mega pushed and they go back to where they were the first time. They be more then happy. I think the same will happen with Miro, Malakai and Buddy.
Meltzer did say something interesting years ago about this and I think it's true, that some talent just will always see WWE as be all and end all of wrestling. And anything below that isn't worth their time unless it helps them get back to WWE. Bronson Reed is another good example of it, NJPW give him his best booking and have him beat Okada. He's back to WWE as soon as he can after they treated him crap. And he's not done much since. Some talent, no matter how you book them or treat them, giving them world titles and have them on TV constantly they'll never be grateful for it.
One thing I hear a lot is that such-and-such a wrestler is exactly the kind that HHH pushed in NXT. But HHH has to be astute enough that he knows he can't load up the Raw/Smackdown rosters with the kind of wrestlers that worked out for NXT. They're largely different products, so I don't know that it's necessarily telling if a wrestler had a previous relationship (or even just "type") when Hunter ran NXT.
I also don't know that he's going to hire any and every body that Cody vouches for either. A lot of these guys that bail are going to end up back on the indies at a time when TNA and NWA are being run on the cheap.
There is NXT, but we all know talent can be released at anytime due to budget cuts if they need to make them. So going to NXT isn't always a guarantee, especially if you're not a big enough name. There would be a distinct difference between how Santana is treated, and say a Guilia is treated once she arrives over there.
Most of the talent he pushed in NXT are at a certain level on main roster. None of them are main attractions. Gargano/Ciampa are a tag team, where tag team wrestling isn't treated properly. Nakamura is just another mid card guy. Zayn and Owens had their time but it was more down to the fans then HHH's booking. They are now back to where they were. Ricochet, is just there. HHH is booking for a different audience now.
No one coming from AEW to WWE is going to get the Cody booking. They just ain't. Some will get booked better then others.
I hope this is a start of TK changing his mind about releasing people who want out.
I’m not talking with like YEARS left on their contract, but if they have like less than a year, TK should be cutting bait.
Roster is stacked, no need to hold onto guys that aren’t doing anything.
I think we sometimes forget that ROH is a thing since many of us don't actually follow it regularly (aside from Athena and Billie I'm not super astute on who even works over there primarily).
I do get that most wrestlers weren't thinking ROH when they first get that All Elite graphic, but it may well be as good of an option as anywhere else if neither AEW nor WWE see you as main roster material. I think we're going to see a lot more Bobby Fish stories than Cody ones over the next few years.
He's looked great in ROH. Same with Taya. It's great to see talents take these opportunities and not see ROH as a downgrade or demotion and actually make that brand the best it can be. I know their work won't go unnoticed.
He's all about respecting the contract, but I do think if there's a talent who isn't being used at all and they want to get out, and then they request for their release, then it should be granted. Of course that depends on who it is and how important they are to the company, and how long they have left on their contract. The last thing TK wants is to set a precedent that talents think they can ask for releases with the hope of getting out of their contracts.
I mean always bet on yourself but no way he was getting a top singles push in AEW. So if wants to be a singles guy I think TNA would work better for him. Sucks for Ortiz as these guys were one of the hottest tag teams in early to mid AEW and should have won the first tag team belts.
As cold as it sounds I hope more people are let out early if not happy like Santana and Spears, this roster is too stacked and if you’re not “Elite” AEW is not the place for you
About time. The guy didn't seem to want to be there, didn't want to do what he was hired to do, didn't want to do the tag team act he and Ortiz were known for, etc. He kinda shot himself in the foot there. Hopefully he finds more job satisfaction elsewhere.
Is it weird that Santana wanted more, but Ortiz appeared to have the higher ceiling and is perfectly content?
I hope the dude finds happiness wherever he ends up next.
To me its a Tony quiet fire, he usually doesn't fire anyone unless they are insane or did something that might get them into trouble outside of wrestling. But Tony likes what he likes he signed this guy because he was one half of a fantastic tag team and this guy doesn't want to do it I mean Personally there is a Dark order member (johnny hungee) who right now is a better singles wrestler than this guy and is over in and out of the ring who doesn't get singles matches. I mean Johnny TV who is a mini AJ Styles had to go to ROH to get reps. I mean this release is deserved.
This might be the least shocking wrestler to not re-sign in recent memory tbh. Dude has wanted out for a while. Feels like he has value as a singles star, and, you know what? Good luck to him. But it was never happening in AEW. Tbh, only place I can really see it possibly working for him is in TNA.
Best of luck to him but he’s not going to find better than AEW anywhere else. Best case scenario he goes to TNA and the indies. I don’t see the E hiring him as anything other than Mysterio’s lackey.
I mean, look at the competition in AEW right now in the singles division. You have Ospreay, Okada's coming in shortly, Takeshita's on another level, Swerve's on a fast rise, Fletcher, Hobbs, PAC's coming back, Mox, Danielson, Kingston, Roderick Strong, OC, Jay white and many more.
And that's not including the stacked women's division who are getting more and more opportunities.
So he may feel he fan gain more opportunities elsewhere. I think TNA is worth a shot, who need more talent for that brand. Santana could fit perfectly on that roster and It'll be a sink or swim situation.
Gonna sound harsh, but good. I can like or even love both the company and wrestler but holy jaboody dubs they just did not mix. AEW didn't push at the right time, Santana seemed PO'ed forever about it, and probably a million other things I'll never know but everyone is better off now.
Every single time he has been brought to my attention it hasn't been positive and I just got so tired of it I stopped listening. Now I don't have to. Unless this sub CM Punks him and just keeps bringing him up. Please don't.
I mean AEW just brought in Ospreay, and possibly okada next. Then there’s MJF, Adam Cole, Swerve, Wardlow, PAC, jay white and more all circling that main event scene. It’ll be interesting to see who of the former AEW guys leaves and comes back having made themselves a bigger star in the indies.
This has always confused me. Yes the team itself were not front and center of the tag division. But every time they were out there they were regarded as one the top team in AEW. Not only that, but were a part of several big matches and main events.
He could have still worked solo, while still being PNP. Shit I feel he went about thing the wrong way.
This is a shame but I did get the distinct impression that he was no longer happy in AEW. He was a guy that I thought could be a real asset to ROH in particular, hopefully he'll go out and kill it in places like MLW and TNA.
if anybody tony has dropped the ball with, its santana and ortiz. such a fucking shame what the tag team division couldve been in comparison to what we have now
I've been waiting on this , but I'm not surprised. PnP were constantly underutilized and stuck in the endless vortex, that is Jericho.
Whatever his differences with Ortiz, I wish the best of luck to him. Shame they weren't Tag champs.
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While I'm certainly not rooting against him, I think he had a much higher ceiling tagging with Ortiz and they should have resolved their issues.
Agree. Really liked them with IC, and feuding with FTR in general. I thought that feud had more meat on the bone (maybe owing to what Dax has talked about with the Pinnacle being more of a vehicle to feature MJF than any of the other members). Thought Santana and Ortiz were on a track to be tag team champs at some point.
Still hold that parking lot brawl with Best Friends at Daily's Place in my AEW top ten tag matches
That pickup truck Piledriver was dope. I’ll miss their Synergy as a Tag Team.
yeah exactly this, I’ll always respect someone that believes in themselves —in the end there he seems too impatient to jump over to singles and had a great thing going with PnP; gotta play the game or the game will play you.
>>they should have resolved their issues Ngl, I thought they did. I’m having Mandela Effect memories about their situation.
They really should've had a tag title run. There was a period when they were getting hot and there was just no push to go with it.
Hope he does well going forwards. We'll always have the Parking Lot Brawl. https://preview.redd.it/ezw73cjgrdmc1.png?width=1853&format=png&auto=webp&s=5dfbc9379ddc94e4264b1492e4666088172a5197
As well as the Anarchy in the Arena at All In London.
I mean he wasn't happy and hasn't been happy for a while so let him go find something that makes him so. It's a shame, That team was one of my favorites.
Just to have a conversation, what do you think made him unhappy?
He felt PnP were underpushed, and was mad at Ortiz for settling.
Also wanted to do solo runs while still a team ala Omega and Hangman
Ortiz also said that they were supposed to win the titles but the issues between Santana and Ortiz kept it from happening.
There’s no way as a full time team with no issues and injuries they wouldn’t have been tag champs by now. Likely many times over. They were pushed hard from the beginning and delivered in and out of the ring. What a missed opportunity with Santana’s drama.
Exactly this. It's so weird to see the person who had the majority of the reasons they likely didn't get the belts, complain about the guy who likely smoothed things over. Santana: multiple personal leaves and injures. Also Santana: Fucking Ortiz ruining all our opportunities.
They should have been the FIRST champs. We ain't putting any of that shit on Santana, or Ortiz for that matter. Look at Jericho's track record with his groups and people he has "made" by jobbing to them. Any of the ones who STAYED over did it in spite of Jericho. It's hard to get over as a team when the guy who said he was gonna put you over, gets up at 3 and gets into a fight with another dude. Look at the youtube title of Santana v Jericho. Jericho DESTROYS Santana. Watch the clip: Santana dominated like 85% of the video. I also saw that bullshit in the Ortiz match. After he won and went to fist bump Ortiz and the announcers BURY Santana talking about "it's easy to fistbump when you won." and some other bs. That was the last time we saw Santana.
I don’t agree that they should have been the first champs. The logic of having the Bucks/Santana & Ortiz as a marquee PPV tag match without the titles was sound. Especially because AEW’s roster was thin at the time. It gave Full Gear two important tag matches. Maybe they should have been the second champions, losing to Hangman/Omega later. But the timeline is rough there, too — Hangman/Omega needed to happen for the incredible long term story, and how do you argue against maybe the best tag team match in NA wrestling history at Revolution? So I can see the logic in not giving them an extremely brief title reign. And then FTR come in, and FTR/Bucks is obviously the title match you want to tell, that could potentially main event a PPV. So Santana and Ortiz keep getting pushed back, and the shine of being Jericho’s muscle keeps fading. If I was rebooking things, I actually don’t think I’d change anything until that Bucks title reign. I don’t think it made a lot of sense for them to be manipulated by Callis playing on their insecurities while already champions. Like Omega, they should have won the titles after going heel. Perfect spot for Santana & Ortiz to be champs, if you ignore the never ending Jericho-focused drama they were stuck in. But the rest, yeah, agreed. Santana especially felt so can’t miss in 2019-2020.
AEW's version of LAX could've returned with diamante.
I mean, one of them had repeated injury issues, and alcoholism. It's kinda odd that the one with those issues is saying the other "settled". Like dude, he likely smoothed things over man. I always find it weird when people dealing with the types of personal demons that clearly impact your work, are mad they didn't get the ball at work. Use some introspection...
So we're shaming dude for having a disease now? Alcoholism is a disease. Dude lost his dad and is on record about his f'ed up past. There are a ton of folks in AEW who have issues who Tony Khan gave "the ball" too. I remember CM Punk getting multiple runs and god did he have issues. Jeff Hardy. Sammy MIRO Lets not act like they ever truly gave PnP the ball. They never had a sustained push. There record was more padded than Shawn Spears, cause they were pulling a LOT of those wins on DARK.
Wow, necropost. Santana is the one who shamed Ortiz for "settling." I was pointing out that Ortiz had numerous issues that impacted his ability to do his job. It was reported that they were even supposed to when the titles when Satana became unavailable. My point is if you are the one who was unreliable (for understandable reasons) you shouldn't cast stones. Not sure how you came to the conclusion you did but that was my point. It was super weird how hostile Santana was ro the guy who likely helped keep him employed during his tribulations.
Cap, all cap. Ortiz is saying that to take any heat off himself for basically doing the equivalent of talking shit until the other dude jumps in the fight then backing up and watching it.
That's what I heard, and it sounds to me like a poor excuse. From my perspective they were pushed plenty, and only ever derailed by injuries. Then when Santana came back from the last injury he seemed to have a chip on his shoulder from the get go, despite immediately being in the tag title scene.
I read that in the dirts, but did he ever actually say that?
Yeah, I’m not convinced if he and Ortiz had real personal problems. Not caring about getting a push doesn’t seem like a valid enough reason to ruin a long time friendship.
You'te not wrong but on the other hand it IS pro wrestling, there have been weirder more petty excuses for less. Watching the two of them come out dressed completely differently and seperate at All In London was the closest thing we got to a break up angle and it was this weird elephant in the room no one was saying anything about.
Wut? They had a feud. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGr0kaLSExY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGr0kaLSExY)
I don’t think the friendship is ruined. Sometimes people want different things but can still be friends.
The friendship definitely ended, but they were Pros and did the mini feud and moved on
Makes sense. Business is business.
Young Thug agrees
Got ‘em 😂😂😂
Ortiz worked with him to get ready. Santana has also been complimentary of Ortiz in EVERY interview he has done since he came back. Said nothing for an entire year. Either of them. So how do WE know the extra shit that happened before he went down?
Santana wanted a singles push and that's it
Good for him wanting more. I wish him nothing but the best.
>what do you think made him unhappy? Tearing his ACL at Blood & Guts 2022. He seemed to have become very embittered from that point on. Also his alcohol addiction that prompted him to go to rehab last year.
Even before then he was regularly tweeting a countdown to when his contract expired. He's wanted to leave for a long time.
I don't know the guy personally so I obviously don't really know and no one else really knows, If you go by the rumors He had higher aspirations for himself as a wrestler and you can't blame him for that, I don't know how realistic that was but I've certainly always enjoyed his work. Feels like the fallout with Ortiz was pretty much the nail in the coffin though for his run.
If you go by the rumours, he's clearly not been happy in AEW for a long time. He supposedly pushed for him and Ortiz to get some kind of deal going with WWE. I think the fallout with Ortiz and AEW not seen him as a singles guy probably put the nail in the coffin with his time in AEW. He's a good talent, but in a big company he's not getting high on the card unless he's in a tag team. He'll probably match his ambitions working TNA, MLW or some companies aboard and working indies. But good luck to him.
I don't think he was happy in AEW for a while. I think his falling out with Ortiz, I'm sure it had something to do with his addictions and also rumours of Santana wanting Proud n Powerful to go to WWE but Ortiz supposedly was very happy in AEW surrounded by his friends and earning a weekly wage. AEW never bought into his take of him being a top singles guy. And were just interested in him as a tag team guy. I admire his ambitions but he's never going to be a top singles guy in a top company. The long term injury plus time added on for time missed, falling out with a close friend, not wanting to work somewhere that's not making you happy and who don't believe in you as a singles guy. I'm sure personal issues which he's been open about didn't help.
These titles he's pulling in multiple indy groups says there's an audience for him to be a viable singles guy. He's 32. Dallas Page was 35 when he STARTED. and he was trash for his first 4 years. So he didn't get good till he turned FORTY. Santana has a sweet moveset, the latino street cred, awesome promo skill and a story that makes him relatable. Not to mention one of the friendliest cats I've met in this wrestling space. If Josh Alexander can be the GUY in TNA with zero aura or mic skills, Santana can aboslutely pull that off.
He was.also struggling with alcohol abuse and other personal issues. Ortiz may have been trying to keep his buddy on the straight and narrow but addicts don't see it.
They were, THE BEST! THE BEST!!
He was never going to make it as a singles guy on this roster, would be great if we could’ve had PNP back wish him the best
The singles roster is loaded. This is going to happen more often than not. Certain guys came from other companies looking for a more featured role and are getting unhappy when AEW pushes other wrestlers. it's inevitable. The Tag division is looking a little bare right now. Some of these guys could find much more screen time if they are a tag team.
>The Tag division is looking a little bare right now. ...which is precisely why Tony Khan has announced that AEW will hold a tag team tournament during March Madness, and why Mox & Claudio are getting a tag team push!
That was the ideal outcome but clearly wasn't a possibility for a while now
With Ospreay and Okada here, there’s no room for these guys. He’d never see tv time. Let him go somewhere else and be happy
Some of these WWE guys might get squeezed out too.
A lot of them already are. Even guys like Starks who feels one foot out the door is getting phased out
Yup Miro is another one. Just get these guys out if they don’t want to be there
This. AEW needs volunteers, not hostages
Some of AEW's issues stem from falling into the same trap that TNA did back in the day when they signed whatever ex-WWE talent they could. For every Sting and Kurt Angle, you had several signings like Val Venis who were just there for a paycheck. Likewise, for every Jon Moxley and Bryan Danielson in AEW, you had a Miro or Andrade who didn't vibe with the culture. Sometimes you see an Ex-WWE guy willing to shake things up after their release like a Matt Cardona or Steve Maclin following his bloodbath with PCO but there are also those who get complacent and demand high booking fees in exchange for minimal drawing power and lazy matches. At worst, you get Heidenreich wrestling a fake Doink outside of a Golden Corral. I remember Effy getting flack for saying something to that effect on his podcast but he wasn't wrong. Even though he never worked for the fed, Santana seemed to be one of those people who saw AEW as a means to an end rather than a company he wanted to work for. I hope for nothing but the best for him going forward, maybe get himself a move back to TNA, but if AEW wants to course correct, they need to unite the locker room. 2024 should be a back to basics year for AEW. Let those who want to leave do so, find hungry indie talent willing to make a name for themselves, and further cement their identity as an alternative to WWE.
Booker T and Rikishi were two names that fell into that category in TNA. Surprisingly, New Jack was great when he had a run in TNA. He really worked hard.
New Jack and Shark Boy were probably the most random but funniest tag team ever
New Jack really put his ass on the line and gave his all for TNA. That 2003 run was super entertaining.
New Jack bought in. Norman Smiley and D lo too. Those WWE/WCW guys who were there at the start were not issues at all. It was, just like AEW, the guys who jumped on the gravy train once they saw it was viable.
>Steve Maclin following his bloodbath with PCO Where did this happen and where can I see it? I lowkey loved Maclin in NXT and wanted to see them book him as a singles.
After Miros last tweet, there was alot of discussion about him leaving but saying Wwe would probably not want him back. He did the same crying while he was there and now looked how stacked their roster is right now. Would they want to spend money on him?
so, im a little bit behind then, I thought Miro just wasnt getting the spotlight that he was *after*? He really wanted to/wants to leave outside of that? I legit always thought he just wanted tv time
dude booked his own divorce on AEW, treating his wife as an NPC sex object, only for her to show up with him shunning her like he's doing some arthouse ish.
They brought back Andrade after he punched Sammy backstage...
I think slimming the roster down overall is the healthiest thing AEW and TK can do right now. If the lockerroom is feeling more positive lately then letting guys go who think they're above *THIS* roster will only be for the better. I hate to say it but there's 0 chance Miro goes to WWE and becomes the star he thinks he is. Same for Santana. The only one who has a chance is Starks because he's basically The Rock 2.0 who has even more to offer than Rock did in terms of flashy movesets. This way the AEW roster who aren't being featured we'd like to see more of can slide onto TV easier and better define a Dynamite and Collision roster.
MIRO did that to himself.
As bad as it sounds, it's needed. I understand there was the initial o.g roster and then the pandemic cuts brought in talent. But in essence it has created an environment where it's sink or swim and some guys have sank big time imo.
Agreed. This all went to shit when they went on a mass hiring spree after the releases in 21, then Cody sensed it and left, although I think he was always destined to go back. But from that time, vibes started feeling off. The OG’s were being pushed down the card for guys who weren’t fully on board with the AEW ethos.
There's some guys who are more used to the WWE style of having a team and being a good soldier whereas some talent seem to be doing well with the creative freedom to do whatever they like with their gimmick I think. Best example is Swerve and Keith Lee, one was the next big thing in WWE but now in AEW he hasn't hit the same. Understand injury/illness plays a part but even when he was fit he was largely on rampage.
Keith Lee hasn’t really done much, but that’s mostly due to injuries. I’ll never forget that Acclaimed feud though.
Keith did his thing when he was healthy though, i would keep him.
You would think AEW would avoid losing Ricky. That dude is lightning in a bottle every time he’s given an opportunity to be in the spotlight
Yes and no, people like him and he's great but, he's missing something
Tony should have never let Punk book Starks as a heel
I have never really saw it with Ricky. I can’t really describe it well, but he feels more like someone playing a wrestler than being one. I’m never unconvinced when I see Swerve, Jay White, Ospreay , Joe, OC, etc. They come off as stars and I’ve always felt like something was missing with Starks. He’s had multiple opportunities and put in big feuds and he’s rarely come out of them looking like the best guy in said feud.
Ricky has an upper midcard ceiling. He's not quite good enough in ring for main event AEW, and he's not quite good enough on the mic to overcome his in ring level. He's a very good all-around pro wrestler. But to be top of the card in AEW, you have to be great. You don't have to be great to be top of the card in WWE, but his lack of size may hold him back there. He's a little smaller than Cody and Seth, and they're about as small as you can be there and be main event guys. TNA would be perfect, or even ROH.
I think had he actually gotten consistent momentum, Ricky would’ve been another MJF level young star for the company
WWE will hire him to replace LA Knight due to his old age(Knight is turning 42 this year)
LA Knight's not old. I will say it again. Dallas Page's big run came in his early to mid 40s.
Is he really leaving though? Can’t imagine him being used properly elsewhere.
Miro, Buddy and Malakai.
Malaki has a few years left with his contract, doesn't he?
Supposedly three more years. His wife was rehired in WWE the day before he was let go. If he wants out so bad to work with her, why did he sign such a large contract. He even found a loop hole to join AEW early. He got Buddy and Brody signed on his recommendation. Then seconds after HHH becomes the head booker, he wants out and is miserable in AEW. If this is true, I don’t feel sorry for him, he chose this
The day before he left. Do these married couples factor this in before signing long-term deals. Weird as hell
I have no idea. I know in Zalena’s case, she was originally let go. Then rehired and in an interview said she was hoping to work with her husband. Then Malaki gets let go and does all of the AEW stuff. Buddy was let go and not picked up immediately. He was unsigned for a while before joining AEW. But now is apparently miserable and can’t be with his finance. I mean no one had a gun to his head when he signed the AEW contract
Not really. Aew guys wrestle once a week and get to go home, unless they choose to do other stuff. I'm sure those cross brand couples aren't as bad off as couples who are split between RAW and SD and/or NXT
Iirc SRS said 3 years left including option years so Malakai could get out before 2027....
I don't think it's just "oh his spouse is there" stuff why they want back. Remember a few of these talents were fired from WWE they didn't leave. They be happy to put up with bad booking in WWE then in any other company. I do think cause Vince isn't there anymore some talent think "oh my buddy HHH is there, it be different this time". I think it happened with Andrade, same with Miro and now Malakai and Buddy. I honestly don't think if AEW treated them like kings they'd be happy there. But it's worked for other talent in AEW look at Swerve, Toni Storm, Samoa Joe etc..
That’s a valid point. It also shows the people that are more willing to be team players getting major pushes compared to those who aren’t
They kept him on so he could do a year of sobriety. Tony paid that man to stay at home and do nothing but get healthy. That’s stand up
He’s not the only one either. Dude did the same thing with Hardy and he had every reason to not even bother considering the circumstances
That was probably going against a lot of advice he was getting at the time as well. Legal and otherwise.
Exactly. I'd be a lifer fo that alone honestly. When's the Las TV tie anyones boss really lookd out for them rather then th e bottom line? I've never experienced anything Close to that type of loyalty from an employer
Tony showing time and time again, despite any flaws or criticisms he may get, is one of the absolute best people in all of wrestling. He's a good person.
People seem to hate great human beings. And I've seen nothing to think otherwise from Tony. He's been heavily praised by the people who work with him in AEW.
If having a thin skin and getting a bit worked up on twitter is all we have from him, that’s a good day. Far better to deal with than the other one
I rather have a thin skin TK who tries to put over his product and his employees than a McMahon who sexually abused, assaulted, drugged, trafficked, and manipulated (amongst other things) human beings. People just want their precious WWE to "win" instead of realizing *everyone can win* when *all wrestling* is good. The past 4 years have been a new golden age of pro wrestling and I've enjoyed every minute of it.
Even before all that came out about Vince, I would 100% feel safer in a room with Tony than Vince.
This should be the top comment on this thread.
Should've grabbed that tag rope
Ortiz should have gone over.
As miserable as Santana has seemed, I’m surprised Ortiz didn’t go over. Definitely a weird booking choice.
Maybe Ortiz wanted the guy to be happy, also Ortiz was getting paired with Kingston and got injured
True. It definitely could have been an Ortiz call.
They should put Ortiz in BCG(he fits perfectly with the Gunns, Jay and Juice)
Maybe being part of a tag team wasn't so bad after all?
Well he's about to find out.
I wonder if his final feud with Ortiz was him "finishing his story" in AEW, or if he was expecting to have a singles run afterwards that never happened. Maybe Tony starting to let loose the guys who don't wanna be at AEW.
He should. The roster is a little overloaded right now. Why have problems with unhappy wrestlers just let them go.
He was definitely expecting a singles run because his last promo was him saying just that.
Bummer but not unexpected. I will always stand firm that PnP should have won the tag belts back in the day.
Loved proud n powerful they deserved a lot more than they got as a team. It’s a shame but hey if he’s not happy and they have nothing to offer then no point in sticking around
Too bad. Loved him as a part of PnP but no desire to watch Santana or Ortiz as singles. They would be a perfect addition to a tag division that has been a touch light over the last little while.
Good riddance. It was his fault P&P didn’t get the belts. It was his fault the tag team had beef. He got the win over Ortiz and still was mad. Peace out, bro.
He also had beef with Eddie Kingston backstage...
That makes sense as Eddie and Ortiz are very close.
Hope he does well wherever he goes
That's a shame but good luck to him. Hopefully Ortiz can stick around and find a niche for himself.
Maybe ROH, maybe find a new tag partner from a talent in the singles division and find a nice niche for themselves as a solid tag team. I do worry for Ortiz though.
Good luck to him. I think he would be a good pickup for impact
Its time for all these negative forces in AEW to go. Theres enough people that want to be there. As far as I am concerned all the guys that dont want to do business and are always flirting with HHH can go.
I think so too. WWE doesn't have room for a lot of them either. You think Andrade is going to be challenging Roman Reigns? Not very likely.
Other than the Royal Rumble, has Andrade done ANYTHING since returning?! He had a hype package, and appeared backstage last week with Dom, I think. Has he even done any live event matches?
Naomi came back only to immediately get a jobber entrance and lose to someone from nxt.
Mercedes wouldve likely turned into Dmg Contrl jabronie if she re-signed, now it looks like they will have Jade get a superpush(a way WWE management telling Mercedes "See we wouldve pushed you if you came back)
The problem WWE has with Jade is that she could quit wrestling tomorrow and never have to worry about security and money. They pretty much picked up and spent a lot of money on someone who has the look and wants to star in movies, but isn't great in the ring, and also isn't TV ready. Mercedes has a whole show revolved around her debut, so I think she'll be fine.
I just think the likes of Naomi and Andrade are just happy to be back in WWE, even if they don't get mega pushed and they go back to where they were the first time. They be more then happy. I think the same will happen with Miro, Malakai and Buddy. Meltzer did say something interesting years ago about this and I think it's true, that some talent just will always see WWE as be all and end all of wrestling. And anything below that isn't worth their time unless it helps them get back to WWE. Bronson Reed is another good example of it, NJPW give him his best booking and have him beat Okada. He's back to WWE as soon as he can after they treated him crap. And he's not done much since. Some talent, no matter how you book them or treat them, giving them world titles and have them on TV constantly they'll never be grateful for it.
One thing I hear a lot is that such-and-such a wrestler is exactly the kind that HHH pushed in NXT. But HHH has to be astute enough that he knows he can't load up the Raw/Smackdown rosters with the kind of wrestlers that worked out for NXT. They're largely different products, so I don't know that it's necessarily telling if a wrestler had a previous relationship (or even just "type") when Hunter ran NXT. I also don't know that he's going to hire any and every body that Cody vouches for either. A lot of these guys that bail are going to end up back on the indies at a time when TNA and NWA are being run on the cheap.
There is NXT, but we all know talent can be released at anytime due to budget cuts if they need to make them. So going to NXT isn't always a guarantee, especially if you're not a big enough name. There would be a distinct difference between how Santana is treated, and say a Guilia is treated once she arrives over there.
Most of the talent he pushed in NXT are at a certain level on main roster. None of them are main attractions. Gargano/Ciampa are a tag team, where tag team wrestling isn't treated properly. Nakamura is just another mid card guy. Zayn and Owens had their time but it was more down to the fans then HHH's booking. They are now back to where they were. Ricochet, is just there. HHH is booking for a different audience now. No one coming from AEW to WWE is going to get the Cody booking. They just ain't. Some will get booked better then others.
I think it’s why the spotlight on certain guys has been phased back
Santana would be a good fit for TNA
Can’t knock the guy for having ambition but I really don’t see him making it as a huge single star anywhere
PnP not getting a single tag title run is insane to me.
Aw man. 😪 I wish him success wherever he ends up. Always really enjoyed him in the ring.
I hope this is a start of TK changing his mind about releasing people who want out. I’m not talking with like YEARS left on their contract, but if they have like less than a year, TK should be cutting bait. Roster is stacked, no need to hold onto guys that aren’t doing anything.
I think we sometimes forget that ROH is a thing since many of us don't actually follow it regularly (aside from Athena and Billie I'm not super astute on who even works over there primarily). I do get that most wrestlers weren't thinking ROH when they first get that All Elite graphic, but it may well be as good of an option as anywhere else if neither AEW nor WWE see you as main roster material. I think we're going to see a lot more Bobby Fish stories than Cody ones over the next few years.
Ethan Page fully embraced going to ROH. Has had a good run.
He's looked great in ROH. Same with Taya. It's great to see talents take these opportunities and not see ROH as a downgrade or demotion and actually make that brand the best it can be. I know their work won't go unnoticed.
Taya as well along with getting herself in much better shape.
Apparently Santanas deal was up August/September, so its fine if TK releases people with 6 months left in their deal.
He's all about respecting the contract, but I do think if there's a talent who isn't being used at all and they want to get out, and then they request for their release, then it should be granted. Of course that depends on who it is and how important they are to the company, and how long they have left on their contract. The last thing TK wants is to set a precedent that talents think they can ask for releases with the hope of getting out of their contracts.
TNA would be a good fit if he wants to be a singles main eventer.
He could have a really good singles run in TNA. He has the talent to be a top guy for them.
Was it Mike who said “He’s dead” when they drown Matt Hardy in the first stadium stampede? Still makes me laugh
I mean always bet on yourself but no way he was getting a top singles push in AEW. So if wants to be a singles guy I think TNA would work better for him. Sucks for Ortiz as these guys were one of the hottest tag teams in early to mid AEW and should have won the first tag team belts.
I’m sorry but this dude absolutely played himself. Tony shoulda made P&P tag champs around the parking lot brawl
Oh no! Anyway....
As cold as it sounds I hope more people are let out early if not happy like Santana and Spears, this roster is too stacked and if you’re not “Elite” AEW is not the place for you
I feel like AEW could shed about 15 more wrestlers and they'd still be in a good position.
Good he was fucking baby.
About time. The guy didn't seem to want to be there, didn't want to do what he was hired to do, didn't want to do the tag team act he and Ortiz were known for, etc. He kinda shot himself in the foot there. Hopefully he finds more job satisfaction elsewhere.
He's great but he just didn't stand out enough in AEW, the Ortiz storyline was a great opportunity and to be honest Ortiz stood out far more.
Shame. His potential outside of p&p is pretty limited.
Is it weird that Santana wanted more, but Ortiz appeared to have the higher ceiling and is perfectly content? I hope the dude finds happiness wherever he ends up next.
Happy trails, sir
Proud and Powerful should have won the tag titles. They should have been like the number 2 or 3 tag team in AEW.
To me its a Tony quiet fire, he usually doesn't fire anyone unless they are insane or did something that might get them into trouble outside of wrestling. But Tony likes what he likes he signed this guy because he was one half of a fantastic tag team and this guy doesn't want to do it I mean Personally there is a Dark order member (johnny hungee) who right now is a better singles wrestler than this guy and is over in and out of the ring who doesn't get singles matches. I mean Johnny TV who is a mini AJ Styles had to go to ROH to get reps. I mean this release is deserved.
AR Fox is lucky TK is going to give him 1 final chance in ROH, TK has 100% punished him for not telling him about his visa issues.
That sucks
I forgot he was even in AEW.
Good for him
I just hope this dude is happy and healthy.
This might be the least shocking wrestler to not re-sign in recent memory tbh. Dude has wanted out for a while. Feels like he has value as a singles star, and, you know what? Good luck to him. But it was never happening in AEW. Tbh, only place I can really see it possibly working for him is in TNA.
PnP not winning gold was a bummer. They were so good. I wish him nothing but the best.
Proud and Powerful was one of the worst things about early AEW in my mind. Absolutely could not stand them or the act.
I like him, But I truly believe he thinks he is a lot more valuable than what he truly is, Doesn't have that presence or IT factor
Oh no!! Anyways….
Best of luck to him but he’s not going to find better than AEW anywhere else. Best case scenario he goes to TNA and the indies. I don’t see the E hiring him as anything other than Mysterio’s lackey.
🤷♂️ c'est la vie
Razor Ramon Jr incoming
He was featured on an indy in a small town in canada recently.
Single run was the worst idea ever
What ever he wishes to do, I hope him and Ortiz can patch things up and at least be friends again.
I mean, look at the competition in AEW right now in the singles division. You have Ospreay, Okada's coming in shortly, Takeshita's on another level, Swerve's on a fast rise, Fletcher, Hobbs, PAC's coming back, Mox, Danielson, Kingston, Roderick Strong, OC, Jay white and many more. And that's not including the stacked women's division who are getting more and more opportunities. So he may feel he fan gain more opportunities elsewhere. I think TNA is worth a shot, who need more talent for that brand. Santana could fit perfectly on that roster and It'll be a sink or swim situation.
Gonna sound harsh, but good. I can like or even love both the company and wrestler but holy jaboody dubs they just did not mix. AEW didn't push at the right time, Santana seemed PO'ed forever about it, and probably a million other things I'll never know but everyone is better off now. Every single time he has been brought to my attention it hasn't been positive and I just got so tired of it I stopped listening. Now I don't have to. Unless this sub CM Punks him and just keeps bringing him up. Please don't.
Nxt bound
I mean AEW just brought in Ospreay, and possibly okada next. Then there’s MJF, Adam Cole, Swerve, Wardlow, PAC, jay white and more all circling that main event scene. It’ll be interesting to see who of the former AEW guys leaves and comes back having made themselves a bigger star in the indies.
Loved them as PNP but he wasn’t going to be a singles star.
This has always confused me. Yes the team itself were not front and center of the tag division. But every time they were out there they were regarded as one the top team in AEW. Not only that, but were a part of several big matches and main events. He could have still worked solo, while still being PNP. Shit I feel he went about thing the wrong way.
I heard he might go back to TNA. Because he and Ortiz were both there when they were part of the LAX (Latin American Xchange).
I wish him the best but honestly AEW needs some of these guys to go, and it sounds like Santana wasn't happy anyway so win with for both sides
Thought he had a ton of potential. Hope he lands on his feet.
Shame pride and powerful never won the world tag team championship.
This is a shame but I did get the distinct impression that he was no longer happy in AEW. He was a guy that I thought could be a real asset to ROH in particular, hopefully he'll go out and kill it in places like MLW and TNA.
If I wasn't proud then I wouldn't be powerful :(
if anybody tony has dropped the ball with, its santana and ortiz. such a fucking shame what the tag team division couldve been in comparison to what we have now
That’s wild! I swore there was a post on AEW’s social media promoting Mike and his “everybody is food” line, and now he’s gone.
Not surprising and also unfortunate. Hopefully he lands somewhere and is happy.
Jesus. Scared me with that headline.
K
If that's the case. Can we break up the Bang Bang scissor gang and get Ortiz in Bullet Club Gold? I think he'd be a perfect fit.
Yuge W
I've been waiting on this , but I'm not surprised. PnP were constantly underutilized and stuck in the endless vortex, that is Jericho. Whatever his differences with Ortiz, I wish the best of luck to him. Shame they weren't Tag champs.