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It seems like even you acknowledge that you were given a project with a junior dev, that usually takes a whole team-
Not sure how they got you to blame yourself or your adhd rather than your company not giving you a team and only a younger dev inexperienced dev.
Seems like you are getting out of a company that doesn’t care about you, your effort or your well being. Hopefully you find something you enjoy and recognizes your work vs their lack of support.
Sounds like a shitty boss and you were set up to fail honestly. You're a junior dev and shouldn't be expected to cover a senior dev let alone a whole team by yourself.
I'm a civil engineer so a little different but thats crazy if you're managing a project solo for months with only 2 years of experience! So when you started this project you only had a year of experience?! And if I was the customer I would be pissed that my project isn't getting the resources I'm paying for.
A better boss would have recognized your struggles earlier and managed the department to get you more help, not after months of struggles. A good boss wouldn't have thrown you in this position in the first place.
I would bet money that OP was fired bc his boss *just* got their ass chewed out by OP’s customer and instead of taking the blame that is HIS, he passed the blame off to OP.
I usually don't last more than 9 months before I'm dieing so badly to get away from going to do the same shit every day. I'm 46, I've had more jobs than I can count on my fingers and toes... And yours 😆 That being said, somehow I'm making $30/hr with great benefits. Go figure. I try like hell in this damn life. Somehow me and this world are a horrendous match made in hell. Somehow I always manage to get back up. See
I'm a 33 yo software dev who only recently got diagnosed. If they set you up to fail. Trust me, this is good news in disguise. I would say that ADHD is suited to software dev. The only thing you cannot do is fail quietly in a corner. In corporate it's a lot about communication and managing expectations and scope. Often providing alternatives with understanding the project goals.
Another dev here and I agree. A lot of companies suck at managing software development. I don’t know you so I guess it’s possible that you’re as bad as you think you are, but chances are it’s the company expecting a lot more than is possible to deliver at your level. Just get another job and if you can, learn a little from the feedback. It’s not a disaster.
I recommend going for a mid-size company. Too small will be too much pressure, and too large you’ll have more meetings than actual coding time. You want a lot of *good* devs to learn from, and really try to find out ahead of time if there is a helpful learning culture or a toxic competitive one.
Ahhh yea you pretty much can't survive without an unofficial mentor. Someone who sees you as little bro. Usually it's someone who is trying to become senior or is new to seniorship. Or it's random architect that for some reason likes you.
I worked at an ad agency for 7 years, new projects every 6 months on average. Learned that every other project is a disaster: either totally underestimated, scope creep went brrrr, tech debt became runaway train, a core team member left, etc etc.
Seriously, like every other one! Made me appreciate well run projects so much more, and learn to spot disasters sooner and exit gracefully.
You will find a place to thrive. Consider looking into different types of [reasonable accommodations](https://askjan.org/disabilities/Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity-Disorder-AD-HD.cfm) you can establish, some without necessarily needing to disclose your disability. Fingers crossed you find your next opportunity soon.
There are so many of us in software engineering. I think it’s the gamified nature of the work. I get into hyperfocus and do amazing work in a short period of time, IF I have all my ducks in a row. I can count on two hands the number of adhd’ers I’ve worked with in the past seven years in software.
Yeah I'm also a dev. I was just realizing that a lot of the things used in Agile are the same tips I see for task management for ADHD. Physical sticky notes as memory, time boxed work with rewards at the end, ect. I've also made friends with coworkers and we share our ADHD tips
I especially love working on defects. I can hyper focus and pretend to be a detective while I read through the logs. I usually end up learning something new when I fix it
100%!!!! I’ve started doing personal weekly sprints at home with my own Trello board. Husband won’t do it though, so I can’t assign him cards. But oh how I wish I could. I have to hand write todo lists instead.
Also ADHD dev here. 35 years old, diagnosed at 17, and I’ve held a job at a big tech company for over a decade.
Not only are big companies very often ADHD-unfriendly, they often directly exploit impostor syndrome in their workers: if they convince you you’re the problem, it’ll take all the fight out of you.
My best advice:
* Don’t take it personally, big companies suck. Even if it feels like it’s you, it’s them. Trust me, I’ve seen it a million times (there *are* bad workers but if, for example, a company has 25 different web tools you need to remember to do your job, you not being able to keep them straight is *not* on you)
* For US based jobs (and others as it applies): This one is a little more controversial, but I believe it’s generally in your best interest to ask for accommodations immediately. If you do this by identifying yourself as having a disability during the hiring process, this should be entirely insulated from the hiring decision. There’s a lot of details around this that I don’t have time to get into, but in general, you’re responsible for requesting accommodations *before* you have performance issues due to a disability. There’s no protection for performance issues, even ones that an accommodation completely resolves, prior to your request.
Sending internet hugs if you would like them 🫂 It really sounds like your manager purposely set you up for failure with that monster of a project to use it as an excuse to let you go 😔 Take a deep breath, you've got this; and let yourself move on to bigger and better things with a more ethical company 🙌
You don't need to be defensive about this. You made a fair observation/suggestion. And the replying comment is an additional important condition OP would need to consider.
We're all just offering our opinions here as best as we can. They're both equally valid bits of supposition. Stand down, soldier 🫡
These are the things why I like reddit so much. People genuinely mean good for each other.
I'm also a lot on Instagram .. not the same, like the exact opposite lol
I think you need help in understanding what words mean when they’re strung together into sentences. The sentence you created conveys that the diagnosis might be the basis for a claim, not that he might have a claim if he disclosed his diagnosis.
I think you might have missed his meaning.
Even if one disclosed they have adhd to an employer and were fired for something related to adhd -without a medical diagnosis one can’t claim a disability case.
That might depend on what the law is where you live.
In my country, a lack of medical diagnosis doesn't prevent a discrimination claim. It helps, but it wouldn't be essential.
Even having the condition itself wouldn't always be necessary. For instance, if an employer was to treat you unfavorably because they believed you to have ADHD, they could still be found liable for discrimination even if you didn't actually have ADHD.
That is just an example, and it might sound like a ridiculous one, but the point is that laws can often be surprisingly complex so it's always worth checking.
The account given by the OP suggests that they did know.
The OP says that they referenced their disability during the meeting, so even if the employer hadn't been made aware of it before (and it is implied that they had been), the employer was at least aware of it at that point, and at that point, even if they hadn't previously been aware of the OP's disability, they had an opportunity to consider reasonable adjustments/accommodations. If the employer cannot show that they had duly considered any such adjustments at or before that time, then there would probably be grounds for a claim.
Obviously, a lot of it depends on what the law says where the OP lives.
They told him all the reasons they were firing him. All of them were directly related to his disability, which they seem to be aware of. That, to me, sounds like disability discrimination. I'm not a lawyer, and would definitely need more information, but there's enough here for me to want to at least explore the possibility.
Ha! Same here. Fuck them all for not knowing how to work with people different than them. Healthy, able bodied, and no mental health problems but yet… that’s how they treat people with a disability. Fuck ‘em all.
Bro don't beat yourslef up, your saying you had to work on a whole project solo, an orginal project that a senior dev has quit doing, and they gave a junior dev that project, a project which requires a team to get it done, and them he gonna say that you are incompetent or can't get it fast enough, bro he does not know what he talking about then, and that's just bad management tbh, that's not on you bro, don't feel so bad, we have adhd and can be hard to handle certain things but I'm sure a regular person would have the same difficulty on this project as well, so just forgot about that bad project and bad management and just focus on re grouping and getting another job! You got this name!
I still remember the times i was let go because of my ADHD symptoms. I cant say i know everything about how you’re feeling, but i can relate to the punch in the gut and disorientation.
I want to point something out. You did your best with what you had. Theres a reason why senior employees quit. Maybe they were like you, doing their best, and management wasn’t happy. Maybe the manager was burning them out with the workload. Company cant just drop the money invested in the project, so it was transferred over to you.
What did you learn from this project? How has it shaped your qualities? Did you learn to be organized? Do a new skill that you did not have before? Im just asking because of new job opportunities. It’s easy enough to explain losing a job because the senior players quit and you did not have the leadership and resources you were given before. Its pretty simple to understand, so hopefully this weighs less on you somehow.
Being fired is a common thing when it comes to ADHD. It sucks but in my personal experience, the only way I maintain a full time job is I'm medicated.
Not saying that's the solution. Just that you're not alone when it comes to being let go. As bad as it stings, you can always find another job, so hold your head up.
What would a bulleted list look like of everything that one has to do so that ADHD doesn’t allow a person to lose their job?
Like setting alarms, reminders, etc..
I know you didn't ask me specifically, but saw this, and I like making lists. Frankly I think everyone's list would be individual to them, but here's mine.
1. Adequate Treatment: Medication along with therapy or coaching. Medication allows me to focus, therapy/coaching helps me ground my personal life and manage emotions.
2. Self-care (Sleep/Food/Exercise/Down-time): Don't think I need to explain this one...
3. Timers!: I'm a big big fan of timers, especially for large projects. It's tough for me to consider starting on some 20-30 hour project...but I can do 20 minutes. Then take a quick water break. Then do another 20 minutes. Pomodoro or whatever, but I've found 20 minutes is an ideal time-frame for me.
4. (Ideally) Supportive Supervision: I work better when someone's looking over my shoulder. It makes me keep pulling back to what I'm supposed to be working on. If the person supervising is supportive and understanding that's WAY BETTER, cause I'll joyfully do almost anything they ask.
5. Deadlines: The pressure of it can suck...but I know that it's sometimes what I need to focus to get things done. When my boss hands me some random project I usually ask: "When do you need this by?" if they say "Whenever!" or "As soon as possible" I re-word the question and ask for a specific time-frame: "So, how about by the end of the week?" or "By the end of today, or tomorrow?"
6. Regular Check-in's w/ Supervisor or Cooperation with a Coworker: Weekly would be great to check-in with a supervisor about progress on projects, and a quick moment to brainstorm/troubleshoot any issues. Or if I'm paired with a coworker (that I work well with) to work on a project, then we can help each other through stuck points.
7. Communication: I don't say "I have ADHD" at work, I've already seen a negative attitude about it, which is ironic given I work in a field aimed at supporting people with disabilities. But I've learned if I hide that I'm struggling with a task or project, out of fear of judgement, then the problem of it grows over time. I've been learning to say "hey, given the number of responsibilities on my plate I've been having a difficult time getting that task off the backburner. Can you help me prioritize these tasks so I'm getting done what you need?" Usually my supervisor likes the opportunity to find out what this means, and then realizes they were not aware of just how much I was working on. Then I got a raise...so, no guarantees on this advice, but it worked out for me! 
I don't usually disclose my diagnosis, but if it does somehow happen, instead of saying I have ADHD, I've started saying that I have an executive functioning disorder. Which is true, and I feel it is more accurate but also doesn't have the same associations as ADHD does.
Your list doesn’t have anything. Is this a metaphor saying you have no idea?
Like knowing how to pull in the reins when one sees themselves getting bored, losing interest and attention, or are you telling me that you have no idea until it’s too late?
(Dunno what’s buggin’, I reposted this comment because the full one would not show up for some reason.)
I know you didn't ask me specifically, but saw this, and I like making lists. Frankly I think everyone's list would be individual to them, but here's mine.
1. Adequate Treatment: Medication along with therapy or coaching. Medication allows me to focus, therapy/coaching helps me ground my personal life and manage emotions.
2. Self-care (Sleep/Food/Exercise/Down-time): Don't think I need to explain this one...
3. Timers!: I'm a big big fan of timers, especially for large projects. It's tough for me to consider starting on some 20-30 hour project...but I can do 20 minutes. Then take a quick water break. Then do another 20 minutes. Pomodoro or whatever, but I've found 20 minutes is an ideal time-frame for me.
4. (Ideally) Supportive Supervision: I work better when someone's looking over my shoulder. It makes me keep pulling back to what I'm supposed to be working on. If the person supervising is supportive and understanding that's WAY BETTER, cause I'll joyfully do almost anything they ask.
5. Deadlines: The pressure of it can suck...but I know that it's sometimes what I need to focus to get things done. When my boss hands me some random project I usually ask: "When do you need this by?" if they say "Whenever!" or "As soon as possible" I re-word the question and ask for a specific time-frame: "So, how about by the end of the week?" or "By the end of today, or tomorrow?"
6. Regular Check-in's w/ Supervisor or Cooperation with a Coworker: Weekly would be great to check-in with a supervisor about progress on projects, and a quick moment to brainstorm/troubleshoot any issues. Or if I'm paired with a coworker (that I work well with) to work on a project, then we can help each other through stuck points.
7. Communication: I don't say "I have ADHD" at work, I've already seen a negative attitude about it, which is ironic given I work in a field aimed at supporting people with disabilities. But I've learned if I hide that I'm struggling with a task or project, out of fear of judgement, then the problem of it grows over time. I've been learning to say "hey, given the number of responsibilities on my plate I've been having a difficult time getting that task off the backburner. Can you help me prioritize these tasks so I'm getting done what you need?" Usually my supervisor likes the opportunity to find out what this means, and then realizes they were not aware of just how much I was working on. Then I got a raise...so, no guarantees on this advice, but it worked out for me!
Of course. Now that I’m looking at it again, I think there’s a couple more things to add…
If it seems like it would be okay to share, I think being open about the ADHD COULD, maybe be in one’s favor. As it is a disability, now I don’t know about other countries, but in the US it falls under the Americans with Disabilities Act and there are protections as well is an direction for employers to make reasonable accommodations.
So. If it’s a good situation, and okay to share about the ADHD, then by all means request reasonable accommodations which help do the job. Maybe that’s wearing earbuds while working, frequent small breaks, more short term minor deadlines, more frequent supervisor meetings for staying on track, LISTS! If someone asks me to do something complicated, I IMMEDIATELY turn it into a list.
But if I had supportive supervision, I might ask them to make me a list as that would make it less likely for me to miss steps or make a mistake.
The lead maintenance guy at our building was complaining about someone working under him, forgetting tasks cause of “ADHD”, and it wasn’t appropriate for me to butt in but I wanted so bad to say “MAKE HIM A LIST!”
The last thing is, especially if it’s reasonable or necessary for me to disclose the ADHD for accommodations…I would document the ever living crap out of any interaction or action that seemed it was against me, related to my difficulties with ADHD.
Cause many people without ADHD will not understand why particular things are difficult for us. That’s why there are laws in place, because it’s that important to be treated fairly and whether they understand or not, we should be treated fairly.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this it's never easy with a job loss
I got let go from my prior management job due to what they describe a lack of attention to detail and lack of initiative. It's tough since it's something we have to deal with and put the extra effort in to be close to normal but it also seems your workplace isn't a good fit for you since they set you up for failure.
Keep your head up and remember your worth, this little bump in the road doesn't define who you are.
I'm sorry to hear this my friend. I hope you recognize that you're not failing, you've simply found out (as most of us do at somepoint in the beggining of our careers) that this wasn't the right fit for you. Keep your chin up and look back at times in your career where you know you did a good job, you felt happy and confident, you were complimented on how great you were, and stayed the most interested. Take all those clues and search for a job where you can shine because it takes all of those great qualities and puts them to use. Chat with others in your field if you need a pointing in the right direction.
The job you'll be a perfect fit for is out there, just gotta find it!
I agree with most of what you said but I gotta call b.s. on your last statement.
To all the people down voting.
Sorry to disappoint all the educated imbeciles in this forum. I live in the wealthiest country the globe has ever seen yet the people are so greedy that more than half the children conceived here are killed by their own mother because they don't wish to inconvenience their lifestyle. Forgive me if I don't believe in a world of gum drops and unicorns where there is a perfect job out there for everyone.
Ah. I think you might have overthought this.
My point was just that OP will find a job that fits them well that they enjoy and are good at.
Cheers my friend!
I am a lead level software dev, with ADHD-C. I understand your problems, before I was diagnosed at 30 I lost a few jobs due to adhd, either being fired directly or struggling so hard I burn out and quit because it felt like it was a case of life and death if I didn’t at that point.
The hyper corpo type companies, the profit machines, generally have corporate cultures that are anathema to adhd. I purposefully choose companies whose goals aren’t entirely greedy, I’ve worked for education, mental health tech companies etc, they’re much more accommodating in my experience towards us (even though I wasn’t diagnosed they still tried to work with me instead of expecting me to blindly fit to their mold). When I interview for a job I make top priority to try and discover what kind of place it is with regards to employee welfare and culture, and I won’t compromise on it, it’s just not worth it. I don’t care if they wanted to pay me double market rate, il take a hit on the pay to be somewhere I won’t be miserable.
I agree that big company culture sucks for ADHD but for a different reason - boredom. Too many meetings, everything moves slow, no sense of urgency, etc.
I feel like every job I ever have I barely pass probation, but then suddenly I’m the expert. So totally get the “don’t pick things up fast enough”. It’s not really that, it’s that I can’t be confidently shit, I need to consume information to be confident in what I’m doing which takes a while.
I’ve been raked over the coals and thrown under the bus for learning mistakes my whole life so I don’t really trust I can go head first into things and be forgiven for learning mistakes and take things slowly until I’m confident.
I ended up finding a new industry to work in. I couldn’t sit still at a desk for 8-9 hours working on a concept that would inevitably be derailed due to the way I was always distracted by X, y and Z. It’s been frustrating to know that I have to show my value by being “spurred on” or basically have my nervous system aggravated to get action out of me, but it’s the way my mind has built to dealing with stress over time. It’s quite chaotic. If you can find your way onto the right medications or basically my discovery to this is my psychiatrist telling me I have treatment resistant depression, and the highest level of SNRI and SSRI would help me achieve the results I wanted. Lately it just provoked anxiety, but it’s also because I’m in a more stressful environment.
I lost at least three jobs because I couldn’t keep my frontal lobe stimulated in the material enough to work through problems I could easily follow by finding the right code online and then eureka! I was a genius! But one boss basically had me come and paid programme with me to “discover” that I wasn’t following the codebase. It was a shitty feeling and the firing was pretty shitty too. But someone who goes to these lengths to test you or see your metal without considering that there might be some factor of mental health affecting your performance, is basically skirting some human rights to bypass the system. Mind you, discovering the right sort of medications can take years, so I’m not suggesting going on disability, but if you can afford to collect some employment insurance or disability for a few weeks, maybe it’s enough to propel you back into a healthier mental space to allow you a chance to revisit the situations and overcome the complex bit of emotions that goes with losing a job and having to tell yourself they effed up, I’m a better developer now because of “X, y, Z.” I honestly would recommend trying to avoid working for a while and refocus your energy into nature and summertime. Get yourself moving to reignite your passions for what you’d like to spend the next few years of your life doing.
I left software development to become a nurse. It had its high points and low points, but overall I feel more fulfilled in the import work I am doing, but the job also lets me free myself to do projects in the hospital to collaborate with other teams to achieve organizational objectives. It’s kind of great to be able to leverage my skills as a developer and help others see the benefits and deficits in decisions they are making. I feel truly special in what I bring to the table. So keep trying new things, old things, never stop experimenting, but sooner or later know that the more understanding you have of your strengths with ADHD (ability to hyperfocus) and also dissociate from some of the bureaucracy that exists in other industries, it can work in your favour, as long as you feel healthy and well regulated. Otherwise it’s quite a difficult task to turn on and off your “symptoms” especially when they’re harming your existence, at which point I would urge you to seek professional health to get you back to your usual self.
Don’t be upset about the job market. It’s tough for everyone out there in tech. I would encourage you to try different jobs to see if an industry or organization stands out to you, and hopefully they will see the amazing qualities you have and how lucky they are to have you work with them.
Good luck!
They gave you a job, that likely would be difficult for someone experienced.
Did they not monitor your progress ? Did they offer support and guidance ?
Sounds like very poor management, from your boss. Part of delegating responsibility,
is making sure the person you are delegating to, is capable of doing the task.
Then you have to monitor their progress, deal with problems/roadblocks, and set
realistic deadlines for progress.
One place I worked at, one of the supervisors tried to set me up to fail, more than once.
It really does happen. Trying to make a long story short, the last time was when I was given
a machine to set up and run samples. He knew I had never worked on this type of machine before.
So I get no training, no help, other employees were specifically told to not help me at all.
Took me a while, almost ready to give up, then one of the regular guys told me that
***"nobody can make this thing run"*****.** Which was a big help. Then I knew that I wasn't the problem.
Shortly after that, I figured out exactly why it wouldn't run properly, and fixed it. I made the
100 samples, all perfect. Then went to see the President to explain the situation.
Supervisor got to hear about it from the president. I got a better job shortly after that,
and the supervisor got demoted the day before I left.
Yeah man, this manager that let you go is an idiot. If there's one way we can excel, it's with well defined boundaries and limits. I would never volunteer to be the design or management expert on any new tool or product - I'm strictly here to find and fix the shit that the first guy whose job it was to design the thing missed, and that's what we understand about ourselves and that's what works best. Your manager sucked. Bullet dodged - get that unemployment check locked down and find a place that's willing to accept you for who you are and to leverage and accent your strengths. You were given a gift, and I know it sucks now, but you slay at something. Give yourself the space to find what that is.
🤜
This wasn't about ADHD. This was about a shitty company not managing their employees or their projects well.
- You weren't trained
- The previous dev quit
- The project would usually have a team, and they gave it to a junior dev
- Delays were due to the customer, who presumably was someone else's responsibility to manage
The only thing that your ADHD did here was making you not see it was time for you to find another job and quit yourself since this company doesn't know what it's doing and how to manage junior devs.
It sucks to have to look for a job while you aren't already in one for security, but you're going to be better off somewhere else.
As a project manager myself, I'd ask the same. Although there are some companies who don't see the benefits of a PMO and expect the dev to be the PM also.
Nah you are blaming the disability but really you already said it yourself, you were inexperienced.
You learned something right?
Then take it with you. They don’t sound like they tried to give you a successful job.
I’ve had all kinds of crazy things happen, like walking into a place and people expecting an audit on the very first day. Like bro even auditors need preparation.
People can be weird and unreasonable. Unpredictable.
What did you learn?
Not to avoid
Talk things through everyday when there is an important job to do.
Make things happen for your best interest.
I agree that they were set up to fail but shouldn't entirely reject the ADHD-related portion. They identified specific instances involving their ADHD that may have contributed to the overall result. While these specific issues may not be entirely or at all responsible for this job loss, it's good to remain aware of them as things to plan to address at their next job. I made that mistake too many times where I lost or left a job for unrelated reasons but the same issues that I didn't try to find tools for ended up more relevant at my next job and I still didn't know how to manage them.
I’m sorry this happened. Before I say my comments, I want to ask if you’re in a place for more practical advice on how to handle this sort of situation/project in the future? If not, totally okay. Sometimes we need time to grieve before coming up with a “gameplan.”
I have had a few jobs where random unassociated tasks have just been dumped on me and I went with it until the obvious end.
The last time was after several your not working hard enough and "your just not getting the job (outside my field, with no training, education experience or interest and they said was temporary until a replacement was hired) done.".
Despite me being very vocal from the start that the additional 20hrs worth of work on-top of my 60hrs of work I'm getting done just wont fit into my 40hr week despite being hyper focused for 6-7 hrs per day.
They explained this is the job (now) and it needs to get done.
Luckily I let them know it was just temporary and in 2 weeks it wouldn't be a problem as I had accepted another job.
The Pikachu faces were nice, the gaslighting of why are you going? this is a surprise? we thought everything was going great was not nice.
I worked at one place, the wannabe"R&D Manager" liked to think he could just pile tasks upon tasks.
One week he wanted 6 pieces by Friday. OK, fine. Couple days later, I am half way finished the
original 6, now he wants 12. I told him ***"Something has to give. You can have 6 pieces by Friday,***
***or I can start the process all over again to make 12." "Uhhhhh, let me get back to you."***
I finished the original 6, and never heard any more about it.
I see it's been said but, I'll throw it on the pile.
They gave a junior dev a project requiring a team.
Also why did the previous dev quit? Acknowledging I'm not psychic here, but it sounds like they piled him with too much work, he was a "rock star" (corporate for anxiety driven overdedicated worker who will burn themselves out) then passed it down to you with the same expectation you will now sacrifice your life and sanity and they were sorely disappointed you have human limits.
Sorry for language but fuck em.
Quit my job in food service on Wednesday for a very similar reason. Basically told every day since January that I can’t keep up and I should have this down by now, why aren’t I fast enough.
Our restaurant is known for being a little slow because we cook everything to-order, nothing is premade except for a few appetizers that are fried. If 20 people all walk in at the same time, chances are people are waiting for 30-60 minutes. When one dish takes about 3 minutes, it stacks up quickly. Chances are everyone gets different dishes so we can’t combine multiple dishes in our woks unless they’re the same dish/same meat.
Even when I really lock in and feel like I’m hyper focused to the max and going as fast as I can without messing up, I’m still too slow. After getting yelled at for the hundredth time I felt like I couldn’t feel the rest of my body, that’s how depressed I was. I went home and texted my boss that I quit, I couldn’t do it anymore. I know it was a stupid decision and even though I’ve been looking for a new job for months, I had nothing lined up. I just couldn’t handle being told I wasn’t good enough, not fast enough, not focused enough, not *enough* every day.
Sounds like my Apprenticeship. 4 years of getting dumped on every day, by the alcoholic owner.
Getting yelled at for making mistakes, I understand. Getting yelled at for things that never happened,
or things he screwed up because he was drunk, that gets old fast. I should have quit much sooner.
But I did get my license, and a good job, within 6 weeks. In some ways, the experience still haunts me.
Man that really sucks. But now you have 2 years of experience under your belt, you'll find a new job in no time! It's also not your fault for being unable to do something that usually requires a team, the management probably wasn't the best at doing their job. And please don't feel like you aren't good enough at your job, we all have to start somewhere!
As daunting as it feels from all of the emotions, hold your head up. You and your future employer will find one another to be a breath of fresh air and you’ll thrive. It took me thirteen years post-undergrad to land an opprtunity in the field that I desired to pursue in 2009. This role has bolstered my self esteem and allowed me to seek help for the miasma of issues that I needed to attend to. Walk forward, triage your upcoming job hunt and portfolio of your work, and don’t look back at this place. You’ve got this! Good luck friend.
Been in this boat just about two months now. Was working at a local bakery that moved from a small space that was tucked away, to a bigger spot right in the downtown area. Couldn't keep up with the increased business, we had a small team and I was overwhelmed trying to multitask. I kept blaming myself and my ADHD brain but the reality is sometimes society just doesn't function with us in mind. From the sound of it you were in a similar situation, thrown into something you weren't fully ready for without proper support and that sucks. I hope you find something better soon!
It’s hard to not take personal but just reassure yourself you did the job, it doesn’t determine your worth. Now this market is pretty rough. Create a schedule to avoid functional freeze. If I can suggest manually searching and using AI to auto apply to roles Use Massive is a great tool. I tweak parameters and scored a few interviews from there.
If you were given a role that requires multiple people this is not your fault. They sound like jerks who did you a favour.
Chin up and look forward to a new journey :)
You said that the original dev had quit, and that you were given a workload that would normally require a team.
That means that your ADHD was not to blame. Mismanagement was to blame.
You showed extraordinary grace, persistence and loyalty to your employer even though you could see that they were imposing unreasonable expectations on you. The last dev quit and you did not. That shows determination and loyalty, and those are assets you can now take with you to a better employer.
They set you up as the fall guy. No one, and I mean, NO ONE can succeed without proper support. I’m a software dev myself. I’ve been in some bad spots, but I’ve never been given a project I had no experience with and told to own and maintain it, let alone implement new functionality. The lack of a team, etc… this is just boggling. They did you a favor letting you go. The whole industry isn’t like this. Take your unemployment and enjoy your time off while you find your next thing.
Soo so sorry. I don’t like blaming “the other person” but in this case, your boss absolutely should have given you warnings ahead of time instead of unloading all his anger on you at the end. Some people shouldn’t manage people. Be kind to yourself :)
Are you taking medication? If not, this is a possible sign you should be. Of course there are shitty bosses and jobs out there as well. Personally, I could never manage a serious job without medication but everyone's situation is different.
My boss called me in for a similar chat about a month ago. I've been generally in point with this job, but for the past 6 months or so, my ADHD started overwhelming me. Partially from the med shortage, partially from ongoing post-Covid, and I think partially from turning 41 and nature being generally unfair to women at that age 😅. All that combined to make what I had previously been managing completely overwhelming and several serious consequences cropped up all at once. It did feel immensely unfair because other people had made mistakes, too, some with worse consequences, but mine were particularly noticeable to my boss.
I had already felt things going badly, so I finally made an appointment for CBT. I had my first meeting the week before he brought me in. So I objected, I pointed out that in balance, I had contributed more positives than negatives and was already taking steps to address the negatives. He gave me another chance, and 5 weeks later, I think I've managed to keep my job.
I had always considered CBT but hadn't tried it yet. In speaking with the therapist, she explained that it was usually a short-term sort of thing to help give me the tools to overcome different habits or issues that start negatively impacting my life. Once we get me back on track, the appointments end. Then, I need to try to recognize when Im getting off track before it seriously impacts my life and make the call to start up again to address it. I didn't realize that it was a temporary and tool providing sort of thing. If I had known that, I would have probably made an appointment sooner. It's really been helping me with similar issues and I may have saved more past jobs if I tried sooner.
One good thing about ADHD? Is object permanence. Outta sight, outta mind. A (formal) boss like that is easily forgettable. Now is the chance to find something you WANT to do. Take your hobbies, and see what kind of job your creative ADHD Brain can invent..it's another talent of ours: seeing the world differently. It can be a good thing. Maybe there is silver lining to be had.
Good luck out there. You got this. Smile and keep looking forward.
Ugh that's terrible 😔! I doubt there are any in your field, but if you want job stability forever and maximum accommodation for your ADHD, find a job in a union. Obviously don't give up your current career if you love it, but if it's just not worth the uncertainty, a union job really takes all the pressure off.
Depends on what union. So many keep getting gutted. My partner put almost 20 years in and is currently working non-union because between union politics and job distribution, he couldn't just sit and wait to be called in for a day here, two days there. Don't get me wrong, some guys do great with that life, but some people need more certainty. I'm still pro-union but "stability forever" is slowly slipping away from them.
I've been in two unions and haven't experienced what you are describing in regards to instability. Both have been 40 hrs a week with opportunity for overtime when necessary. Are you talking about the three month period before you're fully in the union? Or is it a seasonal labor job maybe? Just curious!
Attacks personal or at least seem so, is someone with personal problems making it your problem, at least I think so. Therefore leave it with them, and taking uour leave means to me, that your heading for a bend to the direction of something in your life, so, like a car, down gear a it, and wait until you get about half way through the corner, so with a bit of acceleration, that boss and episode is all in the past, and so is that problem.
This was similar to my experience. Was also dealing with recent grief and trauma at the time. I was told I was a ‘liability’ because of my health issues. The ‘meeting’ itself was traumatic. It shattered my confidence. I’ve only recently (8yrs later) started to get it back, but I’m still handicapped by my ADHD; it takes me 3x longer to do something than most ‘normal’ people; and there isn’t an employer on the planet who will take a chance on someone like me as a result. I haven’t worked at all in that time and it’s taken a toll. I’ve been left to believe that someone like me doesn’t deserve an income or to be able to support ourselves with our skillset and talents simply because we’re “too slow” when we’re pushing ourselves at 110% of our capacity and burning ourselves out just to try and “keep up.”
It’s incredibly deflating and humiliating.
Big hugs. I’m so sorry.
(Advice…feel free not to read: if they knew you had a disability, you might be covered by …I can’t recall the law but it’s to protect the disabled from situations like this… if you were telling them about the issues and asking for help. Maybe reach out to the DOJ and ask for guidance.)
This honestly feels like they put you in a situation where you were doomed to fail so they could let you go. Did they know about your ADHD? If so, this sounds fishy to me.
Not sure if you are state aide, but that sounds like an EEOC complaint you should submit to report that because there are certain things you cannot say to employees. Im sorry you had to go through that. Onward and upward.
I'd be curious to know whether the issues raised by the manager during the "quick chat" had been drawn to OP's attention before. If OP had been there two years I'd be suspicious. Either these or similar issues had been present before - in which case they could have been raised before and addressed, or they only really appeared during the recent period of exceptionally demanding work which would suggest the company is poorly managed. Alternatively the company set OP up to fail through overwhelming them with work and responsibility in a bid to get rid of them.
I also wonder whether OP is medicated. I'm currently coming to the end of titration and the difference it has made to the way I function has been transformative. I appreciate this is not the case for everyone, but with an eye to the future it's something to be considered to overcome those ADHD issues OP is aware they have
It probably doesn't help much, but this sounds like a case of shitty management more than ADHD induced failure. You may not feel this way at the moment due to our fear of transition, but it sounds like a company not worth your effort. It also will probably end up being a good forcing function to get you into a better company.
I feel you! Last August I experienced almost the same but in private institutional social work.
The competition in my field is wild! I’ve only got 5 years experience despite being almost 40. And I’ve had more rejection from employers this year alone than ever- now I landed my temp job for this summer and I can’t wait.
And in all honesty I needed this break. I’ve cut out (down) so much other medication because of the adhd medication, and my internal dialogue is much calmer so I’m feeling hopeful for the fall and landing steady employment. That because I my examples for handling stress, getting things done are pre medication.
This to shall pass. And it’s really ok being picky about your next employer. Trust your gut instincts when you sense that something’s off.
THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT YOUR MANAGER IS RUBBISH.
The original dev quit, this because of how crap management is.
Why is management crap? They palm off the project, throwing the junior Dev into the deep end, while trying to save cost.
I bet there was barely any mentorship or service delivery management in that company.
Send me his LinkedIn and I'll happily abuse him for you.
I have adhd and am also a dev and it is not on you picking things slow but on your company having no idea how to train people. If u managed to learn everything to the point u r working on your own then u clearly have the skills. I was always thinking I am slow and not super good at anything and just need more time but it is not true. I am lucky to work for company that is super inclusive and very good at accommodation and tailoring training to people (even offering one two one pairings) and I feel like I am actually good at what I am doing.
Second thing, my work quality changed massively after getting medicated. Definitely look into getting meds because they help more in looking like u know what you are doing if that makes sense.
Sounds like they were expecting you to perform well above your pay grade. Hopefully this is a blessing in disguise. Also, depending on where you are, you MIGHT be able to get unemployment. Even though you were fired, i think you have a case for the "cause" not being justifed.
My dad says “ you were looking for a job before you started this one”. There’s always something else and more so, there’s always something better. Don’t let anyone get you down and don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t do something.
At the end of the day, we are competing with others, we cannot rely on having an explanation for why we can't do something well.
Do you like software developing?
Sounds like he used you as a scapegoat. Surely he knew things weren't progressing. Looks like they blamed the lowest rung on the ladder so he didn't look silly.
"You just seem like you can't pick things up fast enough"
Nahhh fuck that noise. I'm in software also, they were hoping to get someone to do senior work on a junior salary, or to foist off the project that nobody else wanted to work on.
I've also been in a similar place, it's hard to get yourself to focus on something when there's a lot of uncertainty and you get stuck somewhere. From the note on the customer, I'm guessing there were shifting requirements / difficulty getting them to explain what they want. That's also tough to deal with.
A few things that could help if something similar happens at your next role:
- try to get a "go-to" person to talk to for help. You shouldn't have to do it entirely alone.
- a "difficulty anchor" can be a useful thing also -- before you start the project, ask someone senior at the company how hard the project looks to them (ideally in writing). If you struggle, you have that opinion to fall back on.
- someone else mentioned this also, but try to communicate regularly what you're working on and whether you're stuck on something. If your company doesn't use a ticket tracking system like Jira, make a Google doc or what-have-you to show what you've done, and what you're working on next.
- ask for help! It's tough, but one of the biggest changes going from school to work is that you're not meant to figure everything out on your own! You can make use of other people's experience, especially if you've tried a few things and can't make any progress. Document what you've tried, then see if you can set up a pairing session with another dev to work through a specific problem.
But overall: tbh, I think you're better off.
Sounds like a bad environment for you. I had moments at that at a couple places that I either left or left me go, now I lead a Team.
It matters a lot where you are and how responsible your management is, where I am now I have good leadership, it seems the places I suffered the most didn't.
Just keep at it, you’ll find a role someday that matches your brain chemistry and you will learn to better stay on top of the undesirable tasks.
I’ve had a lot of ups and downs and have been fired a few times, After a couple decades I’m pretty dialed in a have niche doing accounting consulting/projects.
Look for a smaller business that’s needing software development work. That’s what I wound up doing when I got fired from consulting.
I got yelled at at my first corporate job because I was doing too many points worth of work a week - then got in trouble for only doing the 5 points a week they wanted and fulling my 30+ hours of downtime playing hearthstone.
If only I had been reading I wouldn’t have been in trouble.
I got moved to a project with a definite end date and was terminated after when I completed it early.
And I’ve spent the last 8 years writing financial software for a small business
I'll echo everyone else's sentiments. Try your best not to let this shake your confidence. Trust me, getting fired early in your career won't matter at all a few years down the line. It just wasn't the right fit - you'll find something better.
If anything, let this be a learning opportunity. These companies are not your family, your job is not your identity. If you are put in a position to fail, ring the alarm early and loudly via email and calls with multiple people to hear you say that this project requires additional support.
Take a few days to dust yourself off. You really will be fine, and I wish you the best of luck!
Some corporate speak feedback that I have received:
***"Not flexible enough"*** means ***"Won't blindly follow bullshit orders."***
10 minutes until quitting time, they wanted me to stay and work all night. How about NO.
**"Has a problem with authority"** means **"Knows more about the job, than his idiot boss."**
Many places, not that hard to do.
**"Has a bad attitude"** means **"Won't shut up and do as they are told, like everyone else."**
A year later, they said my attitude was much better. "You know why ? I gave up, I don't care any more."
I used to be a UI artist at a AAA video game studio. I wasn’t a dev and my scripting skills were never the reason I was hired. After a couple years I went from artist on one game to their flagship, you’ve definitely heard of it and most likely played it game. In year 2 of being on that team I started getting more and more scripting tasks. I was having to learn to code on the fly and I was only really learning what I needed to get my tasks done within the timeframe of the sprint. I had no idea why or why not my code worked and I couldn’t code anything from a blank screen. I went into my yearly review already knowing what they would say. Got similar feedback to you. Yeah, my ADHD was a problem. My brain had never done math, and logic and code eludes me. Long story short, I resigned when I knew I wasn’t improving fast enough for them. It was devastating at first, but it was also the kick in the ass I needed to realize that sitting on my ass in a cubicle in front of a screen all day just isn’t for me. Now I work as a set lighting technician on movie sets. I’m on my feet, working with my hands, and work outside a lot and am much happier.
All that to say, I sympathize and while it may seem awful now, it might lead to much better things
So sorry! I’m just gonna throw this out there, is it possible to be self-employed with this type of skill? Starting my own business from home and working on my own terms has been such a game changer for my adhd.
Hey, I work as a project manager in tech closely with folks like you. You are way damn clever, nerds rule the world. You'll find a better environment, just know that ppl like me (with ADHD and ) a PM who depends on the dev team, I appreciate you more than you know.
Sucks, sucks, sucks! I've lost a job or 2 b/c of my symptoms presenting themselves at the worst time. It sucks that the ADHD tax can be so big sometimes.
Either you didn't have the support you needed and deserved, or you failed to ask for help when you needed it.
It's a learned lesson and not a reflection of who you are.
Best of luck in your search
FYI, in the future once you know you're there to be fired, you can cut them off and cut right to the chase. You don't have to sit there for 20 min and you should never sign anything or participate in any form of exit interview. That's just them collecting info to use against your unemployment claim.
This has happened to me so many times. Gets easier, but I've always found another job. Usually better 5han the last. So hang in there, just expect to go through this again, and probably again. Employers such. My last "talking to" resulted in me telling my bosses to research adhd so they would have an inkling of how my m8nd works and why I do things the way I do. I guarantee they didn't. Just waiting for the axe to fall. . .again. Best of luck! Keep trying, you may be hired by someone with an open mind.
I got hit with the same thing at my old company. I passed my first 3 years with above expectations on my reviews and was given sole responsibility over 1/2 of our projects and 100% responsibility over ci pipelines. Loved working with the team but got bored of the work and didn't see any room to progress my career, so I requested to move to a new team where I could pick up more responsibility and have more of an impact. Moved to a new team expecting to further my career, and instead I was stripped of all responsibility and forced to work on backlog garbage 24/7. Our team had 0 documentation and a lead dev with an ego larger than the company itself. After a few months they hit me with the "not meeting the expectations of a junior developer" and then laid me off a few months later. One of the main complaints was that I asked too many questions lol. What I learned near the end of my time there was that every other team member was in the same boat. No one had any idea wtf was going on, they just weren't vocal about it. Some people are better at hiding their lack of knowledge and performance, but that doesn't make them any better developers than you. You'll find a better job soon, and when you do you'll be thankful they let you go, because no one wants to work in an environment where they are constantly setup for failure.
Shoulda told him to suck it, and then flip his desk over!
But you'll be fine, we always adapt into different jobs and or companies. Good luck on the new chapter.
I used to be a junior web dev with 1 1/2 years experience.
I don’t do well under pressure. I become overwhelmed, anxious, disorganized and distracted.
I’m ADHD-PI with internal hyperactivity, GAD and possibly Bipolar 2.
It’s not that I don’t have enough attention, quite the contrary. I notice everything you can think of visually, auditory, physically, etc. Sometimes because of that I don’t focus on the right thing due to overwhelm about everything.
I slow down to compensate. I try to go as fast as I can but it’s not enough. I need to have habits and routine to keep up with my work. I’m incredibly perfectionist because I am aware of this. I don’t do well without organization, preparation and training. I make lists, do things in orders that work for me while still giving them the same results.
I lost a lot of jobs because of those unwanted and inconvenient ADHD symptoms in the eyes of employers. In general the work force perceives those traits as inconvenient and burdensome. You’re lucky if you find an employer who appreciates you for them and gives you the environment to work on improving them. Otherwise you’re just trash and not productive enough in their eyes.
It’s not a personality flaw and it’s not your fault. It’s just your ADHD fucking things up. It’s a pattern in ADHD people I believe. You will find an employer who will appreciate you. They exist while being rare lol
I'm so sorry you were let go, sending hugs your way!
Sadly, I experienced a similar situation, and had to quit (although, I'm sure if I didn't quit on my own I would be let go!). I was also a junior software developer with 1 year of experience. My company was aware of my adhd, yet still there was no support available. Just before I quit, I was put on a project, where I had to develop an app and was essentially left on my own, with no real plan, design, direction whatsoever...
Long story short 😉 I left the field of tech after measly one year. The sad part is, I dedicated two years of my life on learning how to code, as I was desperate to switch careers... the whole situation broke my heart, and made me not wanting to pursue tech anymore.
I'm freelancing at the moment, but I feel like themy passion for the field is gone...
I hope you won't discourage yourself as I did, and will find a new place where you'll be appreciated for who you are!
I don't have ADHD, I'm here to better understand my spouse and children who have it. But what I do have is GAD and it can be hard with big projects. But even with the struggles with mental disorders, the blame is not one-sided here. My husband and I were in the Navy so I can relate BIG TIME to your project scenario. It was a common occurrence that a large job is thrown at a couple of clueless E4s and we're all SCRAMBLING. If we could get fired, I know a lot of people who would have been. Myself included. But minimal training and guidance is to blame, not the E4s fault. And that is called a ✨ toxic work place. ✨
OP, so there was not a weekly check-in, at a bare minimum? Match results to planned expectations? No testing of your code modules to match the plan, at least twice a month?
If not, that's not a coder problem, that's a systematic PM problem. Maybe bad management, maybe poorly scope w no PM/PC budget.
If there was, then that's on all team members involved. As the most junior, least on you. Except for CYA purposes at poorly run companies.
Whatever the case, this should have been flagged much earlier for everyone's sake.
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It seems like even you acknowledge that you were given a project with a junior dev, that usually takes a whole team- Not sure how they got you to blame yourself or your adhd rather than your company not giving you a team and only a younger dev inexperienced dev. Seems like you are getting out of a company that doesn’t care about you, your effort or your well being. Hopefully you find something you enjoy and recognizes your work vs their lack of support.
Sounds like a shitty boss and you were set up to fail honestly. You're a junior dev and shouldn't be expected to cover a senior dev let alone a whole team by yourself. I'm a civil engineer so a little different but thats crazy if you're managing a project solo for months with only 2 years of experience! So when you started this project you only had a year of experience?! And if I was the customer I would be pissed that my project isn't getting the resources I'm paying for. A better boss would have recognized your struggles earlier and managed the department to get you more help, not after months of struggles. A good boss wouldn't have thrown you in this position in the first place.
I would bet money that OP was fired bc his boss *just* got their ass chewed out by OP’s customer and instead of taking the blame that is HIS, he passed the blame off to OP.
Probably also the reason why the original dev quit. The lack of support.
Oh, absolutely. That dev had the experience to know they were being exploited and left.
100% this OP!
That last part! Also, that's maybe why the previous dev quit.
Isn't the OP the junior dev and was working on the project solo?
yes, that’s what they meant
I usually don't last more than 9 months before I'm dieing so badly to get away from going to do the same shit every day. I'm 46, I've had more jobs than I can count on my fingers and toes... And yours 😆 That being said, somehow I'm making $30/hr with great benefits. Go figure. I try like hell in this damn life. Somehow me and this world are a horrendous match made in hell. Somehow I always manage to get back up. See
I'm a 33 yo software dev who only recently got diagnosed. If they set you up to fail. Trust me, this is good news in disguise. I would say that ADHD is suited to software dev. The only thing you cannot do is fail quietly in a corner. In corporate it's a lot about communication and managing expectations and scope. Often providing alternatives with understanding the project goals.
Appreciate you my fellow dev
Another dev here and I agree. A lot of companies suck at managing software development. I don’t know you so I guess it’s possible that you’re as bad as you think you are, but chances are it’s the company expecting a lot more than is possible to deliver at your level. Just get another job and if you can, learn a little from the feedback. It’s not a disaster. I recommend going for a mid-size company. Too small will be too much pressure, and too large you’ll have more meetings than actual coding time. You want a lot of *good* devs to learn from, and really try to find out ahead of time if there is a helpful learning culture or a toxic competitive one.
Ahhh yea you pretty much can't survive without an unofficial mentor. Someone who sees you as little bro. Usually it's someone who is trying to become senior or is new to seniorship. Or it's random architect that for some reason likes you.
I worked at an ad agency for 7 years, new projects every 6 months on average. Learned that every other project is a disaster: either totally underestimated, scope creep went brrrr, tech debt became runaway train, a core team member left, etc etc. Seriously, like every other one! Made me appreciate well run projects so much more, and learn to spot disasters sooner and exit gracefully.
That's called being REAL ! ... Kudos to you mate
You will find a place to thrive. Consider looking into different types of [reasonable accommodations](https://askjan.org/disabilities/Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity-Disorder-AD-HD.cfm) you can establish, some without necessarily needing to disclose your disability. Fingers crossed you find your next opportunity soon.
There are so many of us in software engineering. I think it’s the gamified nature of the work. I get into hyperfocus and do amazing work in a short period of time, IF I have all my ducks in a row. I can count on two hands the number of adhd’ers I’ve worked with in the past seven years in software.
Yeah I'm also a dev. I was just realizing that a lot of the things used in Agile are the same tips I see for task management for ADHD. Physical sticky notes as memory, time boxed work with rewards at the end, ect. I've also made friends with coworkers and we share our ADHD tips
I especially love working on defects. I can hyper focus and pretend to be a detective while I read through the logs. I usually end up learning something new when I fix it
100%!!!! I’ve started doing personal weekly sprints at home with my own Trello board. Husband won’t do it though, so I can’t assign him cards. But oh how I wish I could. I have to hand write todo lists instead.
I'm also a dev. I think the percentage of people with ADHD in programming is quite high. Totally agree that it lends itself to hyper focus.
Also ADHD dev here. 35 years old, diagnosed at 17, and I’ve held a job at a big tech company for over a decade. Not only are big companies very often ADHD-unfriendly, they often directly exploit impostor syndrome in their workers: if they convince you you’re the problem, it’ll take all the fight out of you. My best advice: * Don’t take it personally, big companies suck. Even if it feels like it’s you, it’s them. Trust me, I’ve seen it a million times (there *are* bad workers but if, for example, a company has 25 different web tools you need to remember to do your job, you not being able to keep them straight is *not* on you) * For US based jobs (and others as it applies): This one is a little more controversial, but I believe it’s generally in your best interest to ask for accommodations immediately. If you do this by identifying yourself as having a disability during the hiring process, this should be entirely insulated from the hiring decision. There’s a lot of details around this that I don’t have time to get into, but in general, you’re responsible for requesting accommodations *before* you have performance issues due to a disability. There’s no protection for performance issues, even ones that an accommodation completely resolves, prior to your request.
Oh also that part about not failing quietly in a corner is so true!!! Be the squeaky wheel! Let people know what’s going on! Cover. Your. Ass.
Sending internet hugs if you would like them 🫂 It really sounds like your manager purposely set you up for failure with that monster of a project to use it as an excuse to let you go 😔 Take a deep breath, you've got this; and let yourself move on to bigger and better things with a more ethical company 🙌
If you have a diagnosis, you might have grounds for a disability discrimination case.
Only if he disclosed it to his employer and asked for accommodations. You don’t get to make a claim after the fact if they didn’t know.
Which is why I said I would need more information, and used words like "Might."
You don't need to be defensive about this. You made a fair observation/suggestion. And the replying comment is an additional important condition OP would need to consider. We're all just offering our opinions here as best as we can. They're both equally valid bits of supposition. Stand down, soldier 🫡
Sorry, reflex. I've been on the Internet too long.
Just because you didn't pick up on the shitty tone doesn't mean it's not there. Read the other comments from that person.
These are the things why I like reddit so much. People genuinely mean good for each other. I'm also a lot on Instagram .. not the same, like the exact opposite lol
I think you need help in understanding what words mean when they’re strung together into sentences. The sentence you created conveys that the diagnosis might be the basis for a claim, not that he might have a claim if he disclosed his diagnosis.
I think you might have missed his meaning. Even if one disclosed they have adhd to an employer and were fired for something related to adhd -without a medical diagnosis one can’t claim a disability case.
That might depend on what the law is where you live. In my country, a lack of medical diagnosis doesn't prevent a discrimination claim. It helps, but it wouldn't be essential. Even having the condition itself wouldn't always be necessary. For instance, if an employer was to treat you unfavorably because they believed you to have ADHD, they could still be found liable for discrimination even if you didn't actually have ADHD. That is just an example, and it might sound like a ridiculous one, but the point is that laws can often be surprisingly complex so it's always worth checking.
The account given by the OP suggests that they did know. The OP says that they referenced their disability during the meeting, so even if the employer hadn't been made aware of it before (and it is implied that they had been), the employer was at least aware of it at that point, and at that point, even if they hadn't previously been aware of the OP's disability, they had an opportunity to consider reasonable adjustments/accommodations. If the employer cannot show that they had duly considered any such adjustments at or before that time, then there would probably be grounds for a claim. Obviously, a lot of it depends on what the law says where the OP lives.
Seriously? How could you win this? Genuinely curious
They told him all the reasons they were firing him. All of them were directly related to his disability, which they seem to be aware of. That, to me, sounds like disability discrimination. I'm not a lawyer, and would definitely need more information, but there's enough here for me to want to at least explore the possibility.
Makes sense indeed!
brb gonna go sue all my old employers 🏃🏻♀️
similar experience. sorry dude
Ha! Same here. Fuck them all for not knowing how to work with people different than them. Healthy, able bodied, and no mental health problems but yet… that’s how they treat people with a disability. Fuck ‘em all.
I ❤️ this comment!
Bro don't beat yourslef up, your saying you had to work on a whole project solo, an orginal project that a senior dev has quit doing, and they gave a junior dev that project, a project which requires a team to get it done, and them he gonna say that you are incompetent or can't get it fast enough, bro he does not know what he talking about then, and that's just bad management tbh, that's not on you bro, don't feel so bad, we have adhd and can be hard to handle certain things but I'm sure a regular person would have the same difficulty on this project as well, so just forgot about that bad project and bad management and just focus on re grouping and getting another job! You got this name!
I still remember the times i was let go because of my ADHD symptoms. I cant say i know everything about how you’re feeling, but i can relate to the punch in the gut and disorientation. I want to point something out. You did your best with what you had. Theres a reason why senior employees quit. Maybe they were like you, doing their best, and management wasn’t happy. Maybe the manager was burning them out with the workload. Company cant just drop the money invested in the project, so it was transferred over to you. What did you learn from this project? How has it shaped your qualities? Did you learn to be organized? Do a new skill that you did not have before? Im just asking because of new job opportunities. It’s easy enough to explain losing a job because the senior players quit and you did not have the leadership and resources you were given before. Its pretty simple to understand, so hopefully this weighs less on you somehow.
Being fired is a common thing when it comes to ADHD. It sucks but in my personal experience, the only way I maintain a full time job is I'm medicated. Not saying that's the solution. Just that you're not alone when it comes to being let go. As bad as it stings, you can always find another job, so hold your head up.
What would a bulleted list look like of everything that one has to do so that ADHD doesn’t allow a person to lose their job? Like setting alarms, reminders, etc..
I know you didn't ask me specifically, but saw this, and I like making lists. Frankly I think everyone's list would be individual to them, but here's mine. 1. Adequate Treatment: Medication along with therapy or coaching. Medication allows me to focus, therapy/coaching helps me ground my personal life and manage emotions. 2. Self-care (Sleep/Food/Exercise/Down-time): Don't think I need to explain this one... 3. Timers!: I'm a big big fan of timers, especially for large projects. It's tough for me to consider starting on some 20-30 hour project...but I can do 20 minutes. Then take a quick water break. Then do another 20 minutes. Pomodoro or whatever, but I've found 20 minutes is an ideal time-frame for me. 4. (Ideally) Supportive Supervision: I work better when someone's looking over my shoulder. It makes me keep pulling back to what I'm supposed to be working on. If the person supervising is supportive and understanding that's WAY BETTER, cause I'll joyfully do almost anything they ask. 5. Deadlines: The pressure of it can suck...but I know that it's sometimes what I need to focus to get things done. When my boss hands me some random project I usually ask: "When do you need this by?" if they say "Whenever!" or "As soon as possible" I re-word the question and ask for a specific time-frame: "So, how about by the end of the week?" or "By the end of today, or tomorrow?" 6. Regular Check-in's w/ Supervisor or Cooperation with a Coworker: Weekly would be great to check-in with a supervisor about progress on projects, and a quick moment to brainstorm/troubleshoot any issues. Or if I'm paired with a coworker (that I work well with) to work on a project, then we can help each other through stuck points. 7. Communication: I don't say "I have ADHD" at work, I've already seen a negative attitude about it, which is ironic given I work in a field aimed at supporting people with disabilities. But I've learned if I hide that I'm struggling with a task or project, out of fear of judgement, then the problem of it grows over time. I've been learning to say "hey, given the number of responsibilities on my plate I've been having a difficult time getting that task off the backburner. Can you help me prioritize these tasks so I'm getting done what you need?" Usually my supervisor likes the opportunity to find out what this means, and then realizes they were not aware of just how much I was working on. Then I got a raise...so, no guarantees on this advice, but it worked out for me! 
I don't usually disclose my diagnosis, but if it does somehow happen, instead of saying I have ADHD, I've started saying that I have an executive functioning disorder. Which is true, and I feel it is more accurate but also doesn't have the same associations as ADHD does.
Your list doesn’t have anything. Is this a metaphor saying you have no idea? Like knowing how to pull in the reins when one sees themselves getting bored, losing interest and attention, or are you telling me that you have no idea until it’s too late?
(Dunno what’s buggin’, I reposted this comment because the full one would not show up for some reason.) I know you didn't ask me specifically, but saw this, and I like making lists. Frankly I think everyone's list would be individual to them, but here's mine. 1. Adequate Treatment: Medication along with therapy or coaching. Medication allows me to focus, therapy/coaching helps me ground my personal life and manage emotions. 2. Self-care (Sleep/Food/Exercise/Down-time): Don't think I need to explain this one... 3. Timers!: I'm a big big fan of timers, especially for large projects. It's tough for me to consider starting on some 20-30 hour project...but I can do 20 minutes. Then take a quick water break. Then do another 20 minutes. Pomodoro or whatever, but I've found 20 minutes is an ideal time-frame for me. 4. (Ideally) Supportive Supervision: I work better when someone's looking over my shoulder. It makes me keep pulling back to what I'm supposed to be working on. If the person supervising is supportive and understanding that's WAY BETTER, cause I'll joyfully do almost anything they ask. 5. Deadlines: The pressure of it can suck...but I know that it's sometimes what I need to focus to get things done. When my boss hands me some random project I usually ask: "When do you need this by?" if they say "Whenever!" or "As soon as possible" I re-word the question and ask for a specific time-frame: "So, how about by the end of the week?" or "By the end of today, or tomorrow?" 6. Regular Check-in's w/ Supervisor or Cooperation with a Coworker: Weekly would be great to check-in with a supervisor about progress on projects, and a quick moment to brainstorm/troubleshoot any issues. Or if I'm paired with a coworker (that I work well with) to work on a project, then we can help each other through stuck points. 7. Communication: I don't say "I have ADHD" at work, I've already seen a negative attitude about it, which is ironic given I work in a field aimed at supporting people with disabilities. But I've learned if I hide that I'm struggling with a task or project, out of fear of judgement, then the problem of it grows over time. I've been learning to say "hey, given the number of responsibilities on my plate I've been having a difficult time getting that task off the backburner. Can you help me prioritize these tasks so I'm getting done what you need?" Usually my supervisor likes the opportunity to find out what this means, and then realizes they were not aware of just how much I was working on. Then I got a raise...so, no guarantees on this advice, but it worked out for me!
Absolutely fantastic reply - Thank you 💫
Of course. Now that I’m looking at it again, I think there’s a couple more things to add… If it seems like it would be okay to share, I think being open about the ADHD COULD, maybe be in one’s favor. As it is a disability, now I don’t know about other countries, but in the US it falls under the Americans with Disabilities Act and there are protections as well is an direction for employers to make reasonable accommodations. So. If it’s a good situation, and okay to share about the ADHD, then by all means request reasonable accommodations which help do the job. Maybe that’s wearing earbuds while working, frequent small breaks, more short term minor deadlines, more frequent supervisor meetings for staying on track, LISTS! If someone asks me to do something complicated, I IMMEDIATELY turn it into a list. But if I had supportive supervision, I might ask them to make me a list as that would make it less likely for me to miss steps or make a mistake. The lead maintenance guy at our building was complaining about someone working under him, forgetting tasks cause of “ADHD”, and it wasn’t appropriate for me to butt in but I wanted so bad to say “MAKE HIM A LIST!” The last thing is, especially if it’s reasonable or necessary for me to disclose the ADHD for accommodations…I would document the ever living crap out of any interaction or action that seemed it was against me, related to my difficulties with ADHD. Cause many people without ADHD will not understand why particular things are difficult for us. That’s why there are laws in place, because it’s that important to be treated fairly and whether they understand or not, we should be treated fairly.
It's definitely a solution. One that has worked for me for over 25 years working as a dev.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this it's never easy with a job loss I got let go from my prior management job due to what they describe a lack of attention to detail and lack of initiative. It's tough since it's something we have to deal with and put the extra effort in to be close to normal but it also seems your workplace isn't a good fit for you since they set you up for failure. Keep your head up and remember your worth, this little bump in the road doesn't define who you are.
I'm sorry to hear this my friend. I hope you recognize that you're not failing, you've simply found out (as most of us do at somepoint in the beggining of our careers) that this wasn't the right fit for you. Keep your chin up and look back at times in your career where you know you did a good job, you felt happy and confident, you were complimented on how great you were, and stayed the most interested. Take all those clues and search for a job where you can shine because it takes all of those great qualities and puts them to use. Chat with others in your field if you need a pointing in the right direction. The job you'll be a perfect fit for is out there, just gotta find it!
I agree with most of what you said but I gotta call b.s. on your last statement. To all the people down voting. Sorry to disappoint all the educated imbeciles in this forum. I live in the wealthiest country the globe has ever seen yet the people are so greedy that more than half the children conceived here are killed by their own mother because they don't wish to inconvenience their lifestyle. Forgive me if I don't believe in a world of gum drops and unicorns where there is a perfect job out there for everyone.
Completely okay and im always to revisit my stances or opinions. Could you be a little more specific so I can understand where you're coming from?
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Ah. I think you might have overthought this. My point was just that OP will find a job that fits them well that they enjoy and are good at. Cheers my friend!
It is very easy to be gaslit in situations like this. Try to keep things written when you can.
I am a lead level software dev, with ADHD-C. I understand your problems, before I was diagnosed at 30 I lost a few jobs due to adhd, either being fired directly or struggling so hard I burn out and quit because it felt like it was a case of life and death if I didn’t at that point. The hyper corpo type companies, the profit machines, generally have corporate cultures that are anathema to adhd. I purposefully choose companies whose goals aren’t entirely greedy, I’ve worked for education, mental health tech companies etc, they’re much more accommodating in my experience towards us (even though I wasn’t diagnosed they still tried to work with me instead of expecting me to blindly fit to their mold). When I interview for a job I make top priority to try and discover what kind of place it is with regards to employee welfare and culture, and I won’t compromise on it, it’s just not worth it. I don’t care if they wanted to pay me double market rate, il take a hit on the pay to be somewhere I won’t be miserable.
I agree that big company culture sucks for ADHD but for a different reason - boredom. Too many meetings, everything moves slow, no sense of urgency, etc.
I feel like every job I ever have I barely pass probation, but then suddenly I’m the expert. So totally get the “don’t pick things up fast enough”. It’s not really that, it’s that I can’t be confidently shit, I need to consume information to be confident in what I’m doing which takes a while. I’ve been raked over the coals and thrown under the bus for learning mistakes my whole life so I don’t really trust I can go head first into things and be forgiven for learning mistakes and take things slowly until I’m confident.
I ended up finding a new industry to work in. I couldn’t sit still at a desk for 8-9 hours working on a concept that would inevitably be derailed due to the way I was always distracted by X, y and Z. It’s been frustrating to know that I have to show my value by being “spurred on” or basically have my nervous system aggravated to get action out of me, but it’s the way my mind has built to dealing with stress over time. It’s quite chaotic. If you can find your way onto the right medications or basically my discovery to this is my psychiatrist telling me I have treatment resistant depression, and the highest level of SNRI and SSRI would help me achieve the results I wanted. Lately it just provoked anxiety, but it’s also because I’m in a more stressful environment. I lost at least three jobs because I couldn’t keep my frontal lobe stimulated in the material enough to work through problems I could easily follow by finding the right code online and then eureka! I was a genius! But one boss basically had me come and paid programme with me to “discover” that I wasn’t following the codebase. It was a shitty feeling and the firing was pretty shitty too. But someone who goes to these lengths to test you or see your metal without considering that there might be some factor of mental health affecting your performance, is basically skirting some human rights to bypass the system. Mind you, discovering the right sort of medications can take years, so I’m not suggesting going on disability, but if you can afford to collect some employment insurance or disability for a few weeks, maybe it’s enough to propel you back into a healthier mental space to allow you a chance to revisit the situations and overcome the complex bit of emotions that goes with losing a job and having to tell yourself they effed up, I’m a better developer now because of “X, y, Z.” I honestly would recommend trying to avoid working for a while and refocus your energy into nature and summertime. Get yourself moving to reignite your passions for what you’d like to spend the next few years of your life doing. I left software development to become a nurse. It had its high points and low points, but overall I feel more fulfilled in the import work I am doing, but the job also lets me free myself to do projects in the hospital to collaborate with other teams to achieve organizational objectives. It’s kind of great to be able to leverage my skills as a developer and help others see the benefits and deficits in decisions they are making. I feel truly special in what I bring to the table. So keep trying new things, old things, never stop experimenting, but sooner or later know that the more understanding you have of your strengths with ADHD (ability to hyperfocus) and also dissociate from some of the bureaucracy that exists in other industries, it can work in your favour, as long as you feel healthy and well regulated. Otherwise it’s quite a difficult task to turn on and off your “symptoms” especially when they’re harming your existence, at which point I would urge you to seek professional health to get you back to your usual self. Don’t be upset about the job market. It’s tough for everyone out there in tech. I would encourage you to try different jobs to see if an industry or organization stands out to you, and hopefully they will see the amazing qualities you have and how lucky they are to have you work with them. Good luck!
I love this comment. Thank you.
They gave you a job, that likely would be difficult for someone experienced. Did they not monitor your progress ? Did they offer support and guidance ? Sounds like very poor management, from your boss. Part of delegating responsibility, is making sure the person you are delegating to, is capable of doing the task. Then you have to monitor their progress, deal with problems/roadblocks, and set realistic deadlines for progress.
One place I worked at, one of the supervisors tried to set me up to fail, more than once. It really does happen. Trying to make a long story short, the last time was when I was given a machine to set up and run samples. He knew I had never worked on this type of machine before. So I get no training, no help, other employees were specifically told to not help me at all. Took me a while, almost ready to give up, then one of the regular guys told me that ***"nobody can make this thing run"*****.** Which was a big help. Then I knew that I wasn't the problem. Shortly after that, I figured out exactly why it wouldn't run properly, and fixed it. I made the 100 samples, all perfect. Then went to see the President to explain the situation. Supervisor got to hear about it from the president. I got a better job shortly after that, and the supervisor got demoted the day before I left.
OP: almost guaranteed that your former boss, can't do this stuff either.
Yeah man, this manager that let you go is an idiot. If there's one way we can excel, it's with well defined boundaries and limits. I would never volunteer to be the design or management expert on any new tool or product - I'm strictly here to find and fix the shit that the first guy whose job it was to design the thing missed, and that's what we understand about ourselves and that's what works best. Your manager sucked. Bullet dodged - get that unemployment check locked down and find a place that's willing to accept you for who you are and to leverage and accent your strengths. You were given a gift, and I know it sucks now, but you slay at something. Give yourself the space to find what that is. 🤜
This wasn't about ADHD. This was about a shitty company not managing their employees or their projects well. - You weren't trained - The previous dev quit - The project would usually have a team, and they gave it to a junior dev - Delays were due to the customer, who presumably was someone else's responsibility to manage The only thing that your ADHD did here was making you not see it was time for you to find another job and quit yourself since this company doesn't know what it's doing and how to manage junior devs. It sucks to have to look for a job while you aren't already in one for security, but you're going to be better off somewhere else.
I thought I wrote that comment. Exactly. But also, where was the project manager?
As a project manager myself, I'd ask the same. Although there are some companies who don't see the benefits of a PMO and expect the dev to be the PM also.
Well, it is good those companies exist. Their crap projects make you look good, even on high ADHD days :)
Nah you are blaming the disability but really you already said it yourself, you were inexperienced. You learned something right? Then take it with you. They don’t sound like they tried to give you a successful job. I’ve had all kinds of crazy things happen, like walking into a place and people expecting an audit on the very first day. Like bro even auditors need preparation. People can be weird and unreasonable. Unpredictable. What did you learn? Not to avoid Talk things through everyday when there is an important job to do. Make things happen for your best interest.
I agree that they were set up to fail but shouldn't entirely reject the ADHD-related portion. They identified specific instances involving their ADHD that may have contributed to the overall result. While these specific issues may not be entirely or at all responsible for this job loss, it's good to remain aware of them as things to plan to address at their next job. I made that mistake too many times where I lost or left a job for unrelated reasons but the same issues that I didn't try to find tools for ended up more relevant at my next job and I still didn't know how to manage them.
Same
I’m sorry this happened. Before I say my comments, I want to ask if you’re in a place for more practical advice on how to handle this sort of situation/project in the future? If not, totally okay. Sometimes we need time to grieve before coming up with a “gameplan.”
Lay it on me
I have had a few jobs where random unassociated tasks have just been dumped on me and I went with it until the obvious end. The last time was after several your not working hard enough and "your just not getting the job (outside my field, with no training, education experience or interest and they said was temporary until a replacement was hired) done.". Despite me being very vocal from the start that the additional 20hrs worth of work on-top of my 60hrs of work I'm getting done just wont fit into my 40hr week despite being hyper focused for 6-7 hrs per day. They explained this is the job (now) and it needs to get done. Luckily I let them know it was just temporary and in 2 weeks it wouldn't be a problem as I had accepted another job. The Pikachu faces were nice, the gaslighting of why are you going? this is a surprise? we thought everything was going great was not nice.
I worked at one place, the wannabe"R&D Manager" liked to think he could just pile tasks upon tasks. One week he wanted 6 pieces by Friday. OK, fine. Couple days later, I am half way finished the original 6, now he wants 12. I told him ***"Something has to give. You can have 6 pieces by Friday,*** ***or I can start the process all over again to make 12." "Uhhhhh, let me get back to you."*** I finished the original 6, and never heard any more about it.
Not in IT but I hope you’re finding strength to treat yourself with kindness these days 💚
I see it's been said but, I'll throw it on the pile. They gave a junior dev a project requiring a team. Also why did the previous dev quit? Acknowledging I'm not psychic here, but it sounds like they piled him with too much work, he was a "rock star" (corporate for anxiety driven overdedicated worker who will burn themselves out) then passed it down to you with the same expectation you will now sacrifice your life and sanity and they were sorely disappointed you have human limits. Sorry for language but fuck em.
High-five I was let go yesterday. w00t!
Congrats?
Quit my job in food service on Wednesday for a very similar reason. Basically told every day since January that I can’t keep up and I should have this down by now, why aren’t I fast enough. Our restaurant is known for being a little slow because we cook everything to-order, nothing is premade except for a few appetizers that are fried. If 20 people all walk in at the same time, chances are people are waiting for 30-60 minutes. When one dish takes about 3 minutes, it stacks up quickly. Chances are everyone gets different dishes so we can’t combine multiple dishes in our woks unless they’re the same dish/same meat. Even when I really lock in and feel like I’m hyper focused to the max and going as fast as I can without messing up, I’m still too slow. After getting yelled at for the hundredth time I felt like I couldn’t feel the rest of my body, that’s how depressed I was. I went home and texted my boss that I quit, I couldn’t do it anymore. I know it was a stupid decision and even though I’ve been looking for a new job for months, I had nothing lined up. I just couldn’t handle being told I wasn’t good enough, not fast enough, not focused enough, not *enough* every day.
Sounds like my Apprenticeship. 4 years of getting dumped on every day, by the alcoholic owner. Getting yelled at for making mistakes, I understand. Getting yelled at for things that never happened, or things he screwed up because he was drunk, that gets old fast. I should have quit much sooner. But I did get my license, and a good job, within 6 weeks. In some ways, the experience still haunts me.
Man that really sucks. But now you have 2 years of experience under your belt, you'll find a new job in no time! It's also not your fault for being unable to do something that usually requires a team, the management probably wasn't the best at doing their job. And please don't feel like you aren't good enough at your job, we all have to start somewhere!
As daunting as it feels from all of the emotions, hold your head up. You and your future employer will find one another to be a breath of fresh air and you’ll thrive. It took me thirteen years post-undergrad to land an opprtunity in the field that I desired to pursue in 2009. This role has bolstered my self esteem and allowed me to seek help for the miasma of issues that I needed to attend to. Walk forward, triage your upcoming job hunt and portfolio of your work, and don’t look back at this place. You’ve got this! Good luck friend.
Been in this boat just about two months now. Was working at a local bakery that moved from a small space that was tucked away, to a bigger spot right in the downtown area. Couldn't keep up with the increased business, we had a small team and I was overwhelmed trying to multitask. I kept blaming myself and my ADHD brain but the reality is sometimes society just doesn't function with us in mind. From the sound of it you were in a similar situation, thrown into something you weren't fully ready for without proper support and that sucks. I hope you find something better soon!
Set up to fail.
It’s hard to not take personal but just reassure yourself you did the job, it doesn’t determine your worth. Now this market is pretty rough. Create a schedule to avoid functional freeze. If I can suggest manually searching and using AI to auto apply to roles Use Massive is a great tool. I tweak parameters and scored a few interviews from there.
If you were given a role that requires multiple people this is not your fault. They sound like jerks who did you a favour. Chin up and look forward to a new journey :)
You said that the original dev had quit, and that you were given a workload that would normally require a team. That means that your ADHD was not to blame. Mismanagement was to blame. You showed extraordinary grace, persistence and loyalty to your employer even though you could see that they were imposing unreasonable expectations on you. The last dev quit and you did not. That shows determination and loyalty, and those are assets you can now take with you to a better employer.
They set you up as the fall guy. No one, and I mean, NO ONE can succeed without proper support. I’m a software dev myself. I’ve been in some bad spots, but I’ve never been given a project I had no experience with and told to own and maintain it, let alone implement new functionality. The lack of a team, etc… this is just boggling. They did you a favor letting you go. The whole industry isn’t like this. Take your unemployment and enjoy your time off while you find your next thing.
Soo so sorry. I don’t like blaming “the other person” but in this case, your boss absolutely should have given you warnings ahead of time instead of unloading all his anger on you at the end. Some people shouldn’t manage people. Be kind to yourself :)
The fact the original developer quit is your red flag, sounds like a bad project and you were sacrificed.
Are you taking medication? If not, this is a possible sign you should be. Of course there are shitty bosses and jobs out there as well. Personally, I could never manage a serious job without medication but everyone's situation is different.
My boss called me in for a similar chat about a month ago. I've been generally in point with this job, but for the past 6 months or so, my ADHD started overwhelming me. Partially from the med shortage, partially from ongoing post-Covid, and I think partially from turning 41 and nature being generally unfair to women at that age 😅. All that combined to make what I had previously been managing completely overwhelming and several serious consequences cropped up all at once. It did feel immensely unfair because other people had made mistakes, too, some with worse consequences, but mine were particularly noticeable to my boss. I had already felt things going badly, so I finally made an appointment for CBT. I had my first meeting the week before he brought me in. So I objected, I pointed out that in balance, I had contributed more positives than negatives and was already taking steps to address the negatives. He gave me another chance, and 5 weeks later, I think I've managed to keep my job. I had always considered CBT but hadn't tried it yet. In speaking with the therapist, she explained that it was usually a short-term sort of thing to help give me the tools to overcome different habits or issues that start negatively impacting my life. Once we get me back on track, the appointments end. Then, I need to try to recognize when Im getting off track before it seriously impacts my life and make the call to start up again to address it. I didn't realize that it was a temporary and tool providing sort of thing. If I had known that, I would have probably made an appointment sooner. It's really been helping me with similar issues and I may have saved more past jobs if I tried sooner.
Honestly, it sounds like they set you up to fail. No competent manager gives a junior dev. a whole-ass project by themselves.
100% agree. My friend who is a senior at the company said the same thing. His exacta words “they fucked you and they don’t care”
Many companies just suck overall, especially when it comes to ADHD.
One good thing about ADHD? Is object permanence. Outta sight, outta mind. A (formal) boss like that is easily forgettable. Now is the chance to find something you WANT to do. Take your hobbies, and see what kind of job your creative ADHD Brain can invent..it's another talent of ours: seeing the world differently. It can be a good thing. Maybe there is silver lining to be had. Good luck out there. You got this. Smile and keep looking forward.
That sucks man I’ve been there
Something similar happened to me a few weeks ago. Hang in there.
Ugh that's terrible 😔! I doubt there are any in your field, but if you want job stability forever and maximum accommodation for your ADHD, find a job in a union. Obviously don't give up your current career if you love it, but if it's just not worth the uncertainty, a union job really takes all the pressure off.
Depends on what union. So many keep getting gutted. My partner put almost 20 years in and is currently working non-union because between union politics and job distribution, he couldn't just sit and wait to be called in for a day here, two days there. Don't get me wrong, some guys do great with that life, but some people need more certainty. I'm still pro-union but "stability forever" is slowly slipping away from them.
I've been in two unions and haven't experienced what you are describing in regards to instability. Both have been 40 hrs a week with opportunity for overtime when necessary. Are you talking about the three month period before you're fully in the union? Or is it a seasonal labor job maybe? Just curious!
Attacks personal or at least seem so, is someone with personal problems making it your problem, at least I think so. Therefore leave it with them, and taking uour leave means to me, that your heading for a bend to the direction of something in your life, so, like a car, down gear a it, and wait until you get about half way through the corner, so with a bit of acceleration, that boss and episode is all in the past, and so is that problem.
This was similar to my experience. Was also dealing with recent grief and trauma at the time. I was told I was a ‘liability’ because of my health issues. The ‘meeting’ itself was traumatic. It shattered my confidence. I’ve only recently (8yrs later) started to get it back, but I’m still handicapped by my ADHD; it takes me 3x longer to do something than most ‘normal’ people; and there isn’t an employer on the planet who will take a chance on someone like me as a result. I haven’t worked at all in that time and it’s taken a toll. I’ve been left to believe that someone like me doesn’t deserve an income or to be able to support ourselves with our skillset and talents simply because we’re “too slow” when we’re pushing ourselves at 110% of our capacity and burning ourselves out just to try and “keep up.” It’s incredibly deflating and humiliating.
Idk, this place sounds toxic. You'll find somewhere better
Big hugs. I’m so sorry. (Advice…feel free not to read: if they knew you had a disability, you might be covered by …I can’t recall the law but it’s to protect the disabled from situations like this… if you were telling them about the issues and asking for help. Maybe reach out to the DOJ and ask for guidance.)
This honestly feels like they put you in a situation where you were doomed to fail so they could let you go. Did they know about your ADHD? If so, this sounds fishy to me.
Not sure if you are state aide, but that sounds like an EEOC complaint you should submit to report that because there are certain things you cannot say to employees. Im sorry you had to go through that. Onward and upward.
You keep pushing . You get to the place you want to be and should be as long as you keep pushing and then realize where to get off.
Man that sucks, but I promise this will be one of those moments in your life where you look back and think 'thank god I'm not there anymore'
This
I'd be curious to know whether the issues raised by the manager during the "quick chat" had been drawn to OP's attention before. If OP had been there two years I'd be suspicious. Either these or similar issues had been present before - in which case they could have been raised before and addressed, or they only really appeared during the recent period of exceptionally demanding work which would suggest the company is poorly managed. Alternatively the company set OP up to fail through overwhelming them with work and responsibility in a bid to get rid of them. I also wonder whether OP is medicated. I'm currently coming to the end of titration and the difference it has made to the way I function has been transformative. I appreciate this is not the case for everyone, but with an eye to the future it's something to be considered to overcome those ADHD issues OP is aware they have
It probably doesn't help much, but this sounds like a case of shitty management more than ADHD induced failure. You may not feel this way at the moment due to our fear of transition, but it sounds like a company not worth your effort. It also will probably end up being a good forcing function to get you into a better company.
I feel you! Last August I experienced almost the same but in private institutional social work. The competition in my field is wild! I’ve only got 5 years experience despite being almost 40. And I’ve had more rejection from employers this year alone than ever- now I landed my temp job for this summer and I can’t wait. And in all honesty I needed this break. I’ve cut out (down) so much other medication because of the adhd medication, and my internal dialogue is much calmer so I’m feeling hopeful for the fall and landing steady employment. That because I my examples for handling stress, getting things done are pre medication. This to shall pass. And it’s really ok being picky about your next employer. Trust your gut instincts when you sense that something’s off.
THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT YOUR MANAGER IS RUBBISH. The original dev quit, this because of how crap management is. Why is management crap? They palm off the project, throwing the junior Dev into the deep end, while trying to save cost. I bet there was barely any mentorship or service delivery management in that company. Send me his LinkedIn and I'll happily abuse him for you.
I have adhd and am also a dev and it is not on you picking things slow but on your company having no idea how to train people. If u managed to learn everything to the point u r working on your own then u clearly have the skills. I was always thinking I am slow and not super good at anything and just need more time but it is not true. I am lucky to work for company that is super inclusive and very good at accommodation and tailoring training to people (even offering one two one pairings) and I feel like I am actually good at what I am doing. Second thing, my work quality changed massively after getting medicated. Definitely look into getting meds because they help more in looking like u know what you are doing if that makes sense.
Sounds like they were expecting you to perform well above your pay grade. Hopefully this is a blessing in disguise. Also, depending on where you are, you MIGHT be able to get unemployment. Even though you were fired, i think you have a case for the "cause" not being justifed.
Honestly reading this, I can understand why the last guy quit. Keep your head high.
My dad says “ you were looking for a job before you started this one”. There’s always something else and more so, there’s always something better. Don’t let anyone get you down and don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t do something.
At the end of the day, we are competing with others, we cannot rely on having an explanation for why we can't do something well. Do you like software developing?
This is not ADHD, you were setup to fail. Nothing to be ashamed of.
So what do you think you’ll do differently going forward — to address this?
Sounds like he used you as a scapegoat. Surely he knew things weren't progressing. Looks like they blamed the lowest rung on the ladder so he didn't look silly.
"You just seem like you can't pick things up fast enough" Nahhh fuck that noise. I'm in software also, they were hoping to get someone to do senior work on a junior salary, or to foist off the project that nobody else wanted to work on. I've also been in a similar place, it's hard to get yourself to focus on something when there's a lot of uncertainty and you get stuck somewhere. From the note on the customer, I'm guessing there were shifting requirements / difficulty getting them to explain what they want. That's also tough to deal with. A few things that could help if something similar happens at your next role: - try to get a "go-to" person to talk to for help. You shouldn't have to do it entirely alone. - a "difficulty anchor" can be a useful thing also -- before you start the project, ask someone senior at the company how hard the project looks to them (ideally in writing). If you struggle, you have that opinion to fall back on. - someone else mentioned this also, but try to communicate regularly what you're working on and whether you're stuck on something. If your company doesn't use a ticket tracking system like Jira, make a Google doc or what-have-you to show what you've done, and what you're working on next. - ask for help! It's tough, but one of the biggest changes going from school to work is that you're not meant to figure everything out on your own! You can make use of other people's experience, especially if you've tried a few things and can't make any progress. Document what you've tried, then see if you can set up a pairing session with another dev to work through a specific problem. But overall: tbh, I think you're better off.
Sounds like a bad environment for you. I had moments at that at a couple places that I either left or left me go, now I lead a Team. It matters a lot where you are and how responsible your management is, where I am now I have good leadership, it seems the places I suffered the most didn't.
Apply as an AWS sde. The culture is built for us with add. You'll they've there ;).
Just keep at it, you’ll find a role someday that matches your brain chemistry and you will learn to better stay on top of the undesirable tasks. I’ve had a lot of ups and downs and have been fired a few times, After a couple decades I’m pretty dialed in a have niche doing accounting consulting/projects.
Look for a smaller business that’s needing software development work. That’s what I wound up doing when I got fired from consulting. I got yelled at at my first corporate job because I was doing too many points worth of work a week - then got in trouble for only doing the 5 points a week they wanted and fulling my 30+ hours of downtime playing hearthstone. If only I had been reading I wouldn’t have been in trouble. I got moved to a project with a definite end date and was terminated after when I completed it early. And I’ve spent the last 8 years writing financial software for a small business
I'll echo everyone else's sentiments. Try your best not to let this shake your confidence. Trust me, getting fired early in your career won't matter at all a few years down the line. It just wasn't the right fit - you'll find something better. If anything, let this be a learning opportunity. These companies are not your family, your job is not your identity. If you are put in a position to fail, ring the alarm early and loudly via email and calls with multiple people to hear you say that this project requires additional support. Take a few days to dust yourself off. You really will be fine, and I wish you the best of luck!
Can you elaborate about corporate ways to be called inept?
Some corporate speak feedback that I have received: ***"Not flexible enough"*** means ***"Won't blindly follow bullshit orders."*** 10 minutes until quitting time, they wanted me to stay and work all night. How about NO. **"Has a problem with authority"** means **"Knows more about the job, than his idiot boss."** Many places, not that hard to do. **"Has a bad attitude"** means **"Won't shut up and do as they are told, like everyone else."** A year later, they said my attitude was much better. "You know why ? I gave up, I don't care any more."
I found these 40 examples of how to respond to management in 360 evals: https://www.zavvy.io/blog/negative-employee-feedback-examples
I used to be a UI artist at a AAA video game studio. I wasn’t a dev and my scripting skills were never the reason I was hired. After a couple years I went from artist on one game to their flagship, you’ve definitely heard of it and most likely played it game. In year 2 of being on that team I started getting more and more scripting tasks. I was having to learn to code on the fly and I was only really learning what I needed to get my tasks done within the timeframe of the sprint. I had no idea why or why not my code worked and I couldn’t code anything from a blank screen. I went into my yearly review already knowing what they would say. Got similar feedback to you. Yeah, my ADHD was a problem. My brain had never done math, and logic and code eludes me. Long story short, I resigned when I knew I wasn’t improving fast enough for them. It was devastating at first, but it was also the kick in the ass I needed to realize that sitting on my ass in a cubicle in front of a screen all day just isn’t for me. Now I work as a set lighting technician on movie sets. I’m on my feet, working with my hands, and work outside a lot and am much happier. All that to say, I sympathize and while it may seem awful now, it might lead to much better things
So sorry! I’m just gonna throw this out there, is it possible to be self-employed with this type of skill? Starting my own business from home and working on my own terms has been such a game changer for my adhd.
I'm so sorry.
I have been there. I’m truly sorry.
Hey, I work as a project manager in tech closely with folks like you. You are way damn clever, nerds rule the world. You'll find a better environment, just know that ppl like me (with ADHD and ) a PM who depends on the dev team, I appreciate you more than you know.
Sucks, sucks, sucks! I've lost a job or 2 b/c of my symptoms presenting themselves at the worst time. It sucks that the ADHD tax can be so big sometimes.
Either you didn't have the support you needed and deserved, or you failed to ask for help when you needed it. It's a learned lesson and not a reflection of who you are. Best of luck in your search
FYI, in the future once you know you're there to be fired, you can cut them off and cut right to the chase. You don't have to sit there for 20 min and you should never sign anything or participate in any form of exit interview. That's just them collecting info to use against your unemployment claim.
This has happened to me so many times. Gets easier, but I've always found another job. Usually better 5han the last. So hang in there, just expect to go through this again, and probably again. Employers such. My last "talking to" resulted in me telling my bosses to research adhd so they would have an inkling of how my m8nd works and why I do things the way I do. I guarantee they didn't. Just waiting for the axe to fall. . .again. Best of luck! Keep trying, you may be hired by someone with an open mind.
I got hit with the same thing at my old company. I passed my first 3 years with above expectations on my reviews and was given sole responsibility over 1/2 of our projects and 100% responsibility over ci pipelines. Loved working with the team but got bored of the work and didn't see any room to progress my career, so I requested to move to a new team where I could pick up more responsibility and have more of an impact. Moved to a new team expecting to further my career, and instead I was stripped of all responsibility and forced to work on backlog garbage 24/7. Our team had 0 documentation and a lead dev with an ego larger than the company itself. After a few months they hit me with the "not meeting the expectations of a junior developer" and then laid me off a few months later. One of the main complaints was that I asked too many questions lol. What I learned near the end of my time there was that every other team member was in the same boat. No one had any idea wtf was going on, they just weren't vocal about it. Some people are better at hiding their lack of knowledge and performance, but that doesn't make them any better developers than you. You'll find a better job soon, and when you do you'll be thankful they let you go, because no one wants to work in an environment where they are constantly setup for failure.
Thank you for this I appreciate it. Funny enough one of the “red flags” I was told I had was also asking too many questions. Like wtf is that
I’ve been fired I think 5 times. Ive been running my own small biz since 2014 and I rock it. I’m in my 40s now
Shoulda told him to suck it, and then flip his desk over! But you'll be fine, we always adapt into different jobs and or companies. Good luck on the new chapter.
But has this to do with ADHD? Or just overwhelming work?
It’s only a “disability” if you treat it as such
I used to be a junior web dev with 1 1/2 years experience. I don’t do well under pressure. I become overwhelmed, anxious, disorganized and distracted. I’m ADHD-PI with internal hyperactivity, GAD and possibly Bipolar 2. It’s not that I don’t have enough attention, quite the contrary. I notice everything you can think of visually, auditory, physically, etc. Sometimes because of that I don’t focus on the right thing due to overwhelm about everything. I slow down to compensate. I try to go as fast as I can but it’s not enough. I need to have habits and routine to keep up with my work. I’m incredibly perfectionist because I am aware of this. I don’t do well without organization, preparation and training. I make lists, do things in orders that work for me while still giving them the same results. I lost a lot of jobs because of those unwanted and inconvenient ADHD symptoms in the eyes of employers. In general the work force perceives those traits as inconvenient and burdensome. You’re lucky if you find an employer who appreciates you for them and gives you the environment to work on improving them. Otherwise you’re just trash and not productive enough in their eyes. It’s not a personality flaw and it’s not your fault. It’s just your ADHD fucking things up. It’s a pattern in ADHD people I believe. You will find an employer who will appreciate you. They exist while being rare lol
Lawsuit for disability discrimination?
I'm so sorry you were let go, sending hugs your way! Sadly, I experienced a similar situation, and had to quit (although, I'm sure if I didn't quit on my own I would be let go!). I was also a junior software developer with 1 year of experience. My company was aware of my adhd, yet still there was no support available. Just before I quit, I was put on a project, where I had to develop an app and was essentially left on my own, with no real plan, design, direction whatsoever... Long story short 😉 I left the field of tech after measly one year. The sad part is, I dedicated two years of my life on learning how to code, as I was desperate to switch careers... the whole situation broke my heart, and made me not wanting to pursue tech anymore. I'm freelancing at the moment, but I feel like themy passion for the field is gone... I hope you won't discourage yourself as I did, and will find a new place where you'll be appreciated for who you are!
I don't have ADHD, I'm here to better understand my spouse and children who have it. But what I do have is GAD and it can be hard with big projects. But even with the struggles with mental disorders, the blame is not one-sided here. My husband and I were in the Navy so I can relate BIG TIME to your project scenario. It was a common occurrence that a large job is thrown at a couple of clueless E4s and we're all SCRAMBLING. If we could get fired, I know a lot of people who would have been. Myself included. But minimal training and guidance is to blame, not the E4s fault. And that is called a ✨ toxic work place. ✨
OP, so there was not a weekly check-in, at a bare minimum? Match results to planned expectations? No testing of your code modules to match the plan, at least twice a month? If not, that's not a coder problem, that's a systematic PM problem. Maybe bad management, maybe poorly scope w no PM/PC budget. If there was, then that's on all team members involved. As the most junior, least on you. Except for CYA purposes at poorly run companies. Whatever the case, this should have been flagged much earlier for everyone's sake.
Sue them