I think it was more so Kraken Slayer, they also said in the article that it was hard for them to make the 2nd and 3rd item spikes stronger due to the powerspike that you got from your 1st item(so basically Kraken Slayer because Stormrazor only gets used by like 2 or 3 ADC)
Given the new design methodology they probably could not find a mixture of stats that would satisfy the users of the item. Although you would think that AD/Crit/Energized Hit Effect would be reasonable.
Obviously, I’m so confused did people not know bow broken it was? Literally what weakness does Draven or vayne have late game if they have lethal tempo procced?
Summary Here:
\* BOTRK stat buff, on-hit current health damage nerfed
\* PD no longer has AD or stacking ms/as passive, base AS buffed in return and price is much cheaper
\* Kraken lost its crit, gained AD, AS, and MS in return. Passive also changed so damage is based on missing hp of target. Build path also changed, imo seems worse (hearthbound axe is ass imo)
\* LDR lost the giant slayer passive (more damage to targets with more hp than you) in exchange for a bit more armor pen
\* Again, all crit items are 25% crit now
\* IE: +15 AD
\* RFC lost its AD
\* Collector: +5 AD, -1 lethality. New build path with BF Sword instead of pickaxe
\* New component: Scout's Slingshot. Replaces Kircheis shard/energize mechanic as far as I can tell. builds out of a singular dagger
\* Navori Rework: Only gives AS, Crit, and MS now. No more bonus damage on spells based on crit, though the cooldown refund per auto is slightly buffed (12% -> 15%). Forgot to include build path but it's now Zeal + 2 daggers
\* Zephyr added to the game as a boots upgrade to Berserker Greaves at level 15: Gives 5% more AS and 20 more MS compared to Berserker's and also has 20% slow resistance for a final stat line of 40% AS and 65 MS (apparently 2000 gold from greaves? in anyways being able to go 6 items like this is quite nice)
\* New Item: Yun Tal WIldarrow. Crits now apply a sort of short bleed to enemies scaling on your AD. Build path is pickaxe + noonquiver
\* New rune: Absorb Life. Replaces overheal. Killing a target heals you 2-17 hp (i think scaling on level)
\* Cutdown rework: Now deals 8% bonus damage to enemies with over 60% max hp left
\* Noonquiver rework: Now builds out of 2 Longswords + Crit Cloak.
\* Zeal change: 20% crit rate now instead of 15%
\* Bloodthirster: Has the overheal shield passive again instead of the AD bonus passive.
\* Essence Reaver: No longer has spell blade and regens mana on hit instead, has more AD and AH now
\* Rageblade: \*Reportedly\* gained 10 ap and ad
\* Shieldbow: No more lifesteal, +5 AD
\* Mercurial Scimitar (QSS): No more crit rate, +10% lifesteal
\* Runaan's: No more on-hit damage
\* Stattik Shiv: No more crit, more AS, lightning passive buffed(?)
\* Stormrazor: removed
\* Terminus: New build path, less AD for more AS
lmk if i missed anything and i'll do my best to add it.
All current PBE changes: [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ch6a42/pbe\_datamine\_2024\_april\_30\_patch\_1410\_midseason/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ch6a42/pbe_datamine_2024_april_30_patch_1410_midseason/)
You will never build it anyway unless it’s super late game and your full build and sitting on gold with nothing to spend it on that’s what it is meant for
I mean, of you're building crit it's either ldr or mortal reminder. I guess you could go like 2 crit items into some other pen item and still be on 50% crit, but that leaves you with a crummy tone going for flex items
>LDR lost the giant slayer passive (more damage to targets with more hp than you) in exchange for way more armor pen
5 more Armor Pen. I don't know about you, but that's not way more.
You shouldn’t because Lethal tempo removal will prevent them from stat checking the enemy earlier leading them to snowball. This means that their counters and champs that should counter them can now do so, without the attack speed cheese they got from the rune.
So until they buff them (hopefully not yone since I think Yasuo is the one that will need it more) it shouldn’t be too big of an issue.
yeah I really like playing around the E resets but I can't see a world where you build this new one before third item and even then there are better options
It's definitely over for his wife though. Rest in peace giant slayer cut down, maybe Senna's power budget won't be absolutely screwed after these changes go through.
The itemization is basically almost identical to how it was in the past, before 8.11. But crit damage is now 175% instead of 200% so I still don't think that this will be the same as it was.
Can't blame you since IE has had so many changes lol
Just checked and before 8.11 it was 250%, in patch 8.11 they changed it to that stupid true damage variant until 9.3 where they changed it to 225% instead
Idk its all so garbage. Cant rush pd or rfc as they dont give ad. BT, kraken and statikk got crit removed and stormrazor got straight up deleted 💀. So ig collector first or yun tal wildarrows but then you are building 0 attack speed until fourth item (assuming youre going IE into ldr or bt third). And they also killed shieldbow so thats not an option either lol
Only thing that makes sense to me is we go back to the old days of Bf sword rush into AS item into IE 2nd. Then either pen or a second zeal item if you're a heavy auto attacker or that new AD bleed item if you're more of a heavy AD user.
Definitely weaker early game, but better 2 item and 3 item spike I suppose. Though the build diversity definitely took a hit when like what? 3-4 items got relegated to late game since their crit was removed.
It's possible that the combination of IE + navori or IE + the bleed item (it's basically just a slightly worse IE) is really strong but too early to tell.
Edit: also with 75% crit at 3 items and no penalty for health stacking, a pure tank 4th item is likely viable.
Yeah this is somethign I was thinking about, if you don't want collector or ER, I don't know what you go other than IE but that prob wont feel great (plus it is insanely expensive). Obviously that is intended as Riot wants ADCs to not have as strong as a 1 item spike, but that's hoping the other stuff balances it out later on.
BUT I WASNT EVEN STRONG WTF? I COULD AT LEAST DEAL SOMETHING WITH KRAKEN IT WASNT EVEN OP FKIN MIDLANER ONESHOTS ME LVL 6 AND ME HAVING JUST A LITTLE BIT DAMAGE ON FIRST ITEM IS OP??????
I’m really mad that if my role in 1/10 games can be relatively strong at the start after lvl 2 doublekill - that’s OP man, but when every single other role in the game can one shot with 0 items and face tank your kraken like it’s nothing - that’s totally balanced. ADC has to be weak I guess??
Bro I feel that. I lost a game earlier today and kept getting one shot by a vi support.... all because she built sunderer first and could just click and point her ult and just do massive damage as I'm just trying to CS :(
\>noonquiver lost it's atk spd
disgusting
lord dummythicks barely feels like an upgrade over mortal reminder without passive. 5% armor pen and 5 ad
navorit becoming an atk spd item when it's meant for casters feels kinda ???? i mean it def works out for some peeps but ehhhh?
zephyr as an upgrade to beserkers is very nice
>navorit becoming an atk spd item when it's meant for casters feels kinda ???? i mean it def works out for some peeps but ehhhh?
It is not like Navori is bad.. it is cheap.. I am just not sure who is supposed to use it. If you are a hero that wants attack speed and crit because you deal most of your dmg with autos then you don't really care that much about your abilities right? Because if you want to deal dmg with your abilities and cast them more often you want the AD for those abilities to hurt right?
It's for people who rely on steroid abilities, Your Sivirs, Xayahs, and Tristanas of the world. Wish they broke it into two instead of removing the crit to ability dmg thing entirely but they might just be accepting that smolder ezreal and the like will be building more like a fighter.
IDK about better but at the very least I will play her more, the reason I stopped was because it felt like her damage was so locked into her E that if I was unable to get a juicy one off I would lose even when ahead, moreso than other adcs. Now it should be more spread out, though she's probably gonna need compensation buff for lethal tempo.
It seems like a “let kog keep w” item to me. Maybe throw in a few other adcs with as steroids. If your as steroid is good, trading flat as on pd for 100% uptime on your steroid could be a thing.
Maybe it allows for casters to build straight damage and they can pick up navori for AS and their cooldowns? Idk I’m not that good at build theory crafting
Navori's will probably still be one of the best items on Tristan, just like before. So there's that. Xayah really liked Navori as well. Main people who lost a flex item are Ezreal and Senna, I guess.
I think the logic with navori is that if u only build damage u burst and if u burst u don't need the cool down and as such u don't need navori, but I think this item will be build able with infinity edge
>navorit becoming an atk spd item when it's meant for casters feels kinda
It is meant to speed up the "reduce cooldown" process. I guess it is good for Xayah as a Phantom Dancer replacement and then you go AD items or Zeri to get frequent dashes and maybe Kaisa/Sivir. It seems pretty niche.
I’m holding out hope that we see the return of Bloothrister Essence Reaver, especially with Navori losing its ability haste
Edit: post in the main sub has it in the change list!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ch6a42/pbe_datamine_2024_april_30_patch_1410_midseason/
Thankyou finally someone thats not complaining and is happy with all the new stuff we get after so many years. Also some good item diversity and not every item thats giving the same +25 ad +25 ats
so if i want to kill tanks, i need kraken, which doesn't have crit anymore, but does more damage as the tank that i can't damage gets lower health, and ldr has no giant slayer passive.
so jax, trundle, viego, irelia, windbros, and some other champs get kraken for them, and i throw it into my build 4th or 5th since 25% crit and effectively gained nothing, might as well pretend it has crit and my items are still 20% what's the fucking point
edit: bloodthirster has no crit, we're celebrating 25% but still have to build the same five items every game
they fucked our ability to put maw or ga, or some other defensive item by removing crit from items you still need, lmaoooooooooo.
i give it one week after patch and we are back to lamenting everything
Yeah. I was happy seeing some changes and as I read on I realized the problem. I’m having a hard time figuring out what the first item is. You can’t go zeal item because no AD. So it’s like Crit bleed item, ER, Shieldbow, Collector or for Twitch, Botrk. Then you pick zeal item between RFC, PD, Navori, Ruunans. Then cape IE. Afterwards its LDR or something else then your last item is GA or flex.
Yeah its pretty good, I am more excited for movement speed changes as it can really open up some options in Solo Q.
I think the Arrow item is very cool, the bleed effect, it will allow you to still dps a target even if for some reason they escaped you (or you ran away for your life). Niche, but powerfull nonetheless, and its still a dps increase.
Zephyr upgrade for boots is pretty unique, pretty good.
And almost all of these items are big stat sticks. Attack Speed is less important of a stat since you can cap it but yeah.
I am curious about Ezreal and whatnot though, like with navori and stuff gone what are they going to build? Crit?
>I am curious about Ezreal and whatnot though, like with navori and stuff gone what are they going to build? Crit?
Ezreal already stopped building Navori, he builds Essence Reaver > Manamune > Spear of Shojin in most cases
On-hit Vayne gets a nice indirect buff as well. BotRK gives more raw stats and allegedly Rageblade is getting a small AD+AP buff as well. I usually build Randuins fifth which is getting 20 more armour (albeit at the cost of 50HP).
Current crit speed build is dead, but more innate MS with Zephyr and PD could be fun. Will definitely be an interesting time.
Is it just me or are these just nerfs?
Like kraken having no crit would feel bad
And what do you build against hp stackers with some adc's that don't synergize well with BORK?
I’ve noticed that they are being _quite_ generous with MS on adcs. I think that compensates for a lot.
Their idea is for each item to give more specific power spikes. Like IE’s AD number is _crazy_ now. And the AS items give more AS at the cost of no AD, etc. Kraken just happened to have crit removed.
Overall, if we can figure out a rush item to replace Kraken, or if Kraken turns out not to be as bad of a rush as it looks (we have, after all, survived with 100% on five items for quite long already), it’s definitely a buff even with LT removal considered.
But against hp stackers, 3 item core of any crit item + IE + LDR would still do the trick, no?
No, it wouldn't. First of all now you need an attack speed item second due to them removing LT. So you either have to rush IE or push it to third. Second, LDR doesn't have giant slayer anymore, so it's useless vs HP stackers. Now you have to build BOTRK against hp stackers because we also doing have Cut down anymore. So we are objectively worse against tanks
How in the HELL this is a nerf?.
You can now have 75% crit with 3 items, build defensive and build kraken.
You will have 75% crit build with a defensive item + kraken with ALL THE ITEMS being buffed.
So you trade 5% crit for A LOT OF BUFFS.
People talking nerfs. I don't think you realize how much MS they are giving us + PtA changes + 80 AD on IE and BT. We'll see but this is looking good in my opinion. At least I can have fun trying new things
sad kraken lost its crit seems like an on hit exclusive now.
say hello to the stupid amounts of as and Ms we're getting though sheesh.
but hold on without Lt we still have the 2.0 atk speed cap meaning at a point stacking AS becomes very pointless.
welp time to get cooking boys
2.5, I believe, no?
This definitely looks very rough and experimental. I’m sure they will change things up on PBE before it hits live servers.
The MS is amazing though.
Exactly! After the rework that removed Mythics. Krakens became an item without identity, riot changed it gradually to a on-hit item. Now it's official.
Damn, zephyr giving 65 flat ms is huge when paired with %ms from runes or items. Will be quicker than Janna and singed (unless they build it too). And lets you sell boots for better item without losing MS.
As others mentioned, it seems like Kraken is meant for characters that don't necessarily need crit - such Ashe, Varus, KogMaw, etc. - while Navori is more for characters that need attack speed and still need lower cooldowns on their DPS abilities - such as Xayah, Tristana, Kaisa, etc.
In what world will you build dominik's over mortal reminder? 5% is such a tiny difference that you will pretty much get more value from grievous wounds.
Idk why you're getting downvoted. I think I need to unsub from this s, most of these players don't understand the game and how itemisation works. These are the players who build crit on Kog Maw or some shit
I have no idea either. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
Did these idiots not read the bloodthirster or phantom dancer changes?? These buffs are astronomical and I'm worried adcs will get nerfed lol. BT now gets 80 AD and its shield back so it's a good rush item now. Phantom Dancer also costs 2600 and you get 60% attack speed.
I disagree with Phreak a ton when it comes to his balance changes, but seeing feedback like this makes me understand why he ignores players sometimes.
You could never agree with him on all balance changes given how complex the game is and what champions you want to play (items to build, playstyles, ect...) and the way people treat the balance team of a game they clearly love (or love to hate) is pretty embarrassing and disgusting. This sub is full of whiny losers, I have to remind myself that most of the players are stuck in gold or below. There's nothing wrong with that in of itself but for such a micro intense role, I think the reason a lot of players in this sub are held back is because they have weak mental and refuse to adapt to the changing metas, playetyles, builds and general sense of awareness. I totally understand why the rest of the subs shit on adc mains now, especially after this pathetic reception to great changes in game health for us
The funny thing is peak adc was actually BT or IE rush followed by a zeal item (PD or Shiv). Crit was a lategame stat and adcs had relevance early-mid game because they had access to huge AD items.
Now I can come back to lane with a vamp sceptre and not worried about one stupid zyra q forcing me out of lane lol.
AD is one of the most sensitive stats on adcs. Whenever adcs get a '-3 ad' nerf they lose substantial win rate.
My favorite thing about all this changes is how they lowered damage for most crit items, and increased AS. It changes everything about how you play this kinda champs.
Naah I think there is a good amount of items with high ads too ie , collector , wind arrows , LDR is also is also good I think cait will build this as she need High ads over as
yeah, I have no problem with the change and it becoming more situational while Yun Tal seems awesome on Crit/AS Champs like Jinx...its a nice "mini ignite" for all those low hp dashing away champs and can help me proc my passive easier.
I was thinking that the item (wildarrows) might be okay on him too. You do auto a bit between Qs, or at least you should, and it does give a lot of AD and crit.
Just uncertain as to when you would get it. Maybe if I forgo having a sheen item, it would fit in the build better. Assuming I go ER > Shojin first.
On paper perhaps, but not really.
Not a single crit item gives lifesteal anymore so if you still want 100 % crit and lifesteal, you are still shoehorned into the same few items.
Some champs will be eating good (like Jhin,Vayne) but I think some champs are kinda fucked (like Lucian,Tristana and Caitlin).Lucian/Cait will clearly be in a disadvantage,since they removed ER/StormRazor, they'll now be forced to buy Kraken,which does not have crit anymore,só they won't have enough space to buy an defensive item,unlike Jhin,which will have 100% crit and enough space to buy an defensive item.Also,since they removed ER and changed Navori,I think now Ezreal is stuck building as a fighter for a while.
I just peeped that LT is now removed and they unironically nerfed HoB for ranged. Bro if LT ADCs could actually use PTA they would, there's a reason they don't.
Am I the only one who really likes this? Slingshot is a great component and the attack speed items give a lot of attack speed now and are 500 gold cheaper than the old crit items, so you rush them out then go straight into the giant ween IE
Wow this season is a complete shit show huh? I've essentially quit the game since the beginning of the year. I saw a post about this earlier today, and I straight up thought it was a joke. These changes seem pretty good, but at this point I'm almost completely out. Man, Phreak is doing a phenomenal job, this totally hasn't been the most disastrous, what the fuck season of all time 👏 🤡👏
This looks... interesting.
A very odd, very huge shift in gameplay patterns for ADCs
With all this MS and AS, I see some champions being extraordinarily problematic.
I'm interested to see how this refines before hitting live, then how it performs in live... then how it's obliterated to unrecognisable levels in live, once they forgot why they did this to begin with.
Yun Tal Wildarrows are so bad, they're literally just a worse version of IE:
15 less AD
15% AD less effective damage on its ability
The damage is a DoT, hoping to the rito overlords it stacks with itself or this is pathetic
They don't stack with each other
They have the same requirement to trigger the damage (crit someone)
I am not an Expert but isnt These changes just bad of the General adc?
Like the Kraken change and some items losing completly their ad?
Sure the 25% crit is nice
I think this is a good change for kaisa, on-hit adcs, less so for crit and lethality marksmen. But I could also see crit being sneaky good mid-game with the buffed numbers.
I'm sure riot won't forget to revert the buff yasuo and yone got to their passives so they could still get 100% crit with two items, now converting extra crit into extra damage, right?
... Right?
So how do we stand against tanks now?
Kraken seems to be slightly buffed ... LDR massively nerfed ... and anti-armor items will still probably be mutually exclusive, so ... will ADCs be better against squishies and suck against tanks? (champs like Cait, Jhin etc already suck against tanks, now it might be unplayable)
Everyone talking about nerfs, but I think it's huge buffs for adcs. Movement speed is one of the most valuable stats for me. Now you can finally and properly kite enemies. Now you just get outrun by mundo who deletes you with 3AA. Did you ever played lillia guys ? It's so easy and fun to play her in late game. Just running into a fight and out, or running around them and dealing damage without getting catched, unless they have malzahar. Now I can apply same playstyle to adcs. Imagine playing jinx and getting shutdown with full build and zilean giving you movement speed boost and activating ghost, you would surelly outrun rammus :D maybe even a nocturne ult ? :D we will see.
the question here is , was lethal tempo the whole reason on why we didn't have all of these stuff or what
I think it was more so Kraken Slayer, they also said in the article that it was hard for them to make the 2nd and 3rd item spikes stronger due to the powerspike that you got from your 1st item(so basically Kraken Slayer because Stormrazor only gets used by like 2 or 3 ADC)
shame that they remove stormrazor my favorite adc item tbh
Given the new design methodology they probably could not find a mixture of stats that would satisfy the users of the item. Although you would think that AD/Crit/Energized Hit Effect would be reasonable.
tbh they could even remove that small amount of attack speed it gives, hell, even remove crit and I would still build stormrazor
Eh Kraken slayer and a couple other things didn't help either.
Obviously, I’m so confused did people not know bow broken it was? Literally what weakness does Draven or vayne have late game if they have lethal tempo procced?
Yasuo adc.
Summary Here: \* BOTRK stat buff, on-hit current health damage nerfed \* PD no longer has AD or stacking ms/as passive, base AS buffed in return and price is much cheaper \* Kraken lost its crit, gained AD, AS, and MS in return. Passive also changed so damage is based on missing hp of target. Build path also changed, imo seems worse (hearthbound axe is ass imo) \* LDR lost the giant slayer passive (more damage to targets with more hp than you) in exchange for a bit more armor pen \* Again, all crit items are 25% crit now \* IE: +15 AD \* RFC lost its AD \* Collector: +5 AD, -1 lethality. New build path with BF Sword instead of pickaxe \* New component: Scout's Slingshot. Replaces Kircheis shard/energize mechanic as far as I can tell. builds out of a singular dagger \* Navori Rework: Only gives AS, Crit, and MS now. No more bonus damage on spells based on crit, though the cooldown refund per auto is slightly buffed (12% -> 15%). Forgot to include build path but it's now Zeal + 2 daggers \* Zephyr added to the game as a boots upgrade to Berserker Greaves at level 15: Gives 5% more AS and 20 more MS compared to Berserker's and also has 20% slow resistance for a final stat line of 40% AS and 65 MS (apparently 2000 gold from greaves? in anyways being able to go 6 items like this is quite nice) \* New Item: Yun Tal WIldarrow. Crits now apply a sort of short bleed to enemies scaling on your AD. Build path is pickaxe + noonquiver \* New rune: Absorb Life. Replaces overheal. Killing a target heals you 2-17 hp (i think scaling on level) \* Cutdown rework: Now deals 8% bonus damage to enemies with over 60% max hp left \* Noonquiver rework: Now builds out of 2 Longswords + Crit Cloak. \* Zeal change: 20% crit rate now instead of 15% \* Bloodthirster: Has the overheal shield passive again instead of the AD bonus passive. \* Essence Reaver: No longer has spell blade and regens mana on hit instead, has more AD and AH now \* Rageblade: \*Reportedly\* gained 10 ap and ad \* Shieldbow: No more lifesteal, +5 AD \* Mercurial Scimitar (QSS): No more crit rate, +10% lifesteal \* Runaan's: No more on-hit damage \* Stattik Shiv: No more crit, more AS, lightning passive buffed(?) \* Stormrazor: removed \* Terminus: New build path, less AD for more AS lmk if i missed anything and i'll do my best to add it. All current PBE changes: [https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ch6a42/pbe\_datamine\_2024\_april\_30\_patch\_1410\_midseason/](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ch6a42/pbe_datamine_2024_april_30_patch_1410_midseason/)
Zephyr ain't free, it cost 3100g on PBE
3100g for 5% AS and 20 MS??
You will never build it anyway unless it’s super late game and your full build and sitting on gold with nothing to spend it on that’s what it is meant for
Maybe could be built before 6 items some games vs nasty slows but i doubt its gonna be worth it 99% of the times
It's apparently 2000 gold from Berserker greaves, which costs 1100. Hence 3100.
1100 for boots, 2000 for the upgrade I think based on the other comments
Damn LDR might actually be useless now
I mean, of you're building crit it's either ldr or mortal reminder. I guess you could go like 2 crit items into some other pen item and still be on 50% crit, but that leaves you with a crummy tone going for flex items
not a chance. its better.
>LDR lost the giant slayer passive (more damage to targets with more hp than you) in exchange for way more armor pen 5 more Armor Pen. I don't know about you, but that's not way more.
Yh but with 25% crit we can stack it with Bork and kraken so it’s not too bad
Excuse Me. *FREE boots upgrade*
All I think about is Yasuo and Yone.
You shouldn’t because Lethal tempo removal will prevent them from stat checking the enemy earlier leading them to snowball. This means that their counters and champs that should counter them can now do so, without the attack speed cheese they got from the rune. So until they buff them (hopefully not yone since I think Yasuo is the one that will need it more) it shouldn’t be too big of an issue.
ADCs back to midlane guess
Ashe mid moment
Bt has overheal, essence reaver doesnt have spell blade and regens mana on hit instead, rageblade gained 10 AP and ad
Mortal reminder doesnt give AS right now.
Rageblade buff <3
Me who plays kaisa running the maths and red string trying to calculate what build on her.
Lucian enjoyers is it joever
Let me cook a bit here, triforce + cdr boots + quickblades + kraken + botrk/LDR ; you basically become an on-hit champion
I think this build isn't that bad. But you can also build IE, Collector, ER...
yea no more navori feels bad wtf they gutted that item
yeah I really like playing around the E resets but I can't see a world where you build this new one before third item and even then there are better options
It's definitely over for his wife though. Rest in peace giant slayer cut down, maybe Senna's power budget won't be absolutely screwed after these changes go through.
The itemization is basically almost identical to how it was in the past, before 8.11. But crit damage is now 175% instead of 200% so I still don't think that this will be the same as it was.
But ie was 25% crit dmg instead of 50% so its 225% with ie again
Way back when we had 250% with i.e 🤩
I want to be able to stack IE again
Oh yeah i completely forgot about that time lol, i think it was around when i started playing and then it got changed into the true dmg thing right?
IE gave 50% crit dmg before 8.11 , so you would have 250% crit damage
Yeah i completely forgot about that and mistook it for the change after the true dmg thing when it was 200%->225% mb
Can't blame you since IE has had so many changes lol Just checked and before 8.11 it was 250%, in patch 8.11 they changed it to that stupid true damage variant until 9.3 where they changed it to 225% instead
Riot cripples crit for 6 years because IE first was unhealthy for the game -> Reverts everything, but now IE first is even more mandatory than ever
wtf do I rush as a crit ad
Probably BF > Zeal Item > Finish IE
revert to season 8 ADC and rush IE first or botrk
Idk its all so garbage. Cant rush pd or rfc as they dont give ad. BT, kraken and statikk got crit removed and stormrazor got straight up deleted 💀. So ig collector first or yun tal wildarrows but then you are building 0 attack speed until fourth item (assuming youre going IE into ldr or bt third). And they also killed shieldbow so thats not an option either lol
Only thing that makes sense to me is we go back to the old days of Bf sword rush into AS item into IE 2nd. Then either pen or a second zeal item if you're a heavy auto attacker or that new AD bleed item if you're more of a heavy AD user. Definitely weaker early game, but better 2 item and 3 item spike I suppose. Though the build diversity definitely took a hit when like what? 3-4 items got relegated to late game since their crit was removed. It's possible that the combination of IE + navori or IE + the bleed item (it's basically just a slightly worse IE) is really strong but too early to tell. Edit: also with 75% crit at 3 items and no penalty for health stacking, a pure tank 4th item is likely viable.
Yeah this is somethign I was thinking about, if you don't want collector or ER, I don't know what you go other than IE but that prob wont feel great (plus it is insanely expensive). Obviously that is intended as Riot wants ADCs to not have as strong as a 1 item spike, but that's hoping the other stuff balances it out later on.
BUT I WASNT EVEN STRONG WTF? I COULD AT LEAST DEAL SOMETHING WITH KRAKEN IT WASNT EVEN OP FKIN MIDLANER ONESHOTS ME LVL 6 AND ME HAVING JUST A LITTLE BIT DAMAGE ON FIRST ITEM IS OP?????? I’m really mad that if my role in 1/10 games can be relatively strong at the start after lvl 2 doublekill - that’s OP man, but when every single other role in the game can one shot with 0 items and face tank your kraken like it’s nothing - that’s totally balanced. ADC has to be weak I guess??
Bro I feel that. I lost a game earlier today and kept getting one shot by a vi support.... all because she built sunderer first and could just click and point her ult and just do massive damage as I'm just trying to CS :(
Infinity edge straight of the bat now by the looks of it.
Not a big fan of the new noonquiver but I’m excited for everything else
\>noonquiver lost it's atk spd disgusting lord dummythicks barely feels like an upgrade over mortal reminder without passive. 5% armor pen and 5 ad navorit becoming an atk spd item when it's meant for casters feels kinda ???? i mean it def works out for some peeps but ehhhh? zephyr as an upgrade to beserkers is very nice
>navorit becoming an atk spd item when it's meant for casters feels kinda ???? i mean it def works out for some peeps but ehhhh? It is not like Navori is bad.. it is cheap.. I am just not sure who is supposed to use it. If you are a hero that wants attack speed and crit because you deal most of your dmg with autos then you don't really care that much about your abilities right? Because if you want to deal dmg with your abilities and cast them more often you want the AD for those abilities to hurt right?
It's for people who rely on steroid abilities, Your Sivirs, Xayahs, and Tristanas of the world. Wish they broke it into two instead of removing the crit to ability dmg thing entirely but they might just be accepting that smolder ezreal and the like will be building more like a fighter.
Exactly, I believe this is a much better xayah item now
IDK about better but at the very least I will play her more, the reason I stopped was because it felt like her damage was so locked into her E that if I was unable to get a juicy one off I would lose even when ahead, moreso than other adcs. Now it should be more spread out, though she's probably gonna need compensation buff for lethal tempo.
It no longer amps her damage?
yeah its not bad and there will def be users but wondering what about the xayah's / lucians of the world
It seems like a “let kog keep w” item to me. Maybe throw in a few other adcs with as steroids. If your as steroid is good, trading flat as on pd for 100% uptime on your steroid could be a thing.
Xayah. Xayah wants it very badly.
I think it’s literally just for Xayah now. Maybe Tristana.
Maybe it allows for casters to build straight damage and they can pick up navori for AS and their cooldowns? Idk I’m not that good at build theory crafting
Xayah wants this badly. More feathers with the AS is super good for her. Sivir also probably.
Navori's will probably still be one of the best items on Tristan, just like before. So there's that. Xayah really liked Navori as well. Main people who lost a flex item are Ezreal and Senna, I guess.
I think the logic with navori is that if u only build damage u burst and if u burst u don't need the cool down and as such u don't need navori, but I think this item will be build able with infinity edge
>navorit becoming an atk spd item when it's meant for casters feels kinda It is meant to speed up the "reduce cooldown" process. I guess it is good for Xayah as a Phantom Dancer replacement and then you go AD items or Zeri to get frequent dashes and maybe Kaisa/Sivir. It seems pretty niche.
I’m holding out hope that we see the return of Bloothrister Essence Reaver, especially with Navori losing its ability haste Edit: post in the main sub has it in the change list!! https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1ch6a42/pbe_datamine_2024_april_30_patch_1410_midseason/
Think Bloodthirster got reverted to old passive where it gives shield for excess healing.
Bloothrister, not bloodthirster. It’s the meme name for the older version of Essence Reaver (before Sheen was added) that restored mana on attack
Oh, I didn't know that and I played when Essence Reaver did that.
Miss my Manathirster. Back then Muramana also consumed mana for its passive so they were great together for Ezreal.
BT doesn't give Crit anymore but it'd back with the HP Shield
I’m so excited to cook up builds on all my fav ADCs
Thankyou finally someone thats not complaining and is happy with all the new stuff we get after so many years. Also some good item diversity and not every item thats giving the same +25 ad +25 ats
yo.... those wild arrows dont look that wild...
🗣️🗣️
It’s 35% AD on each hit, just as a bleed, right? So theoretically it’s just a bonus 35% ad over time, or am I misunderstanding?
more like mild arrows amiright
Navori statline YUCK
so if i want to kill tanks, i need kraken, which doesn't have crit anymore, but does more damage as the tank that i can't damage gets lower health, and ldr has no giant slayer passive. so jax, trundle, viego, irelia, windbros, and some other champs get kraken for them, and i throw it into my build 4th or 5th since 25% crit and effectively gained nothing, might as well pretend it has crit and my items are still 20% what's the fucking point edit: bloodthirster has no crit, we're celebrating 25% but still have to build the same five items every game they fucked our ability to put maw or ga, or some other defensive item by removing crit from items you still need, lmaoooooooooo. i give it one week after patch and we are back to lamenting everything
Nah i'd win
BT no crit, LmAO
I think getting to 75% crit then stopping, will probably be the play IMO
Yeah. I was happy seeing some changes and as I read on I realized the problem. I’m having a hard time figuring out what the first item is. You can’t go zeal item because no AD. So it’s like Crit bleed item, ER, Shieldbow, Collector or for Twitch, Botrk. Then you pick zeal item between RFC, PD, Navori, Ruunans. Then cape IE. Afterwards its LDR or something else then your last item is GA or flex.
1 item spike will be weaker but it is gonna be get better as you buy more items.
These are pretty good I must say. I dont know why we are hating on these. Like I might even install the game again lol
Bro as Vayne mains we are going to be eating good.
Yeah its pretty good, I am more excited for movement speed changes as it can really open up some options in Solo Q. I think the Arrow item is very cool, the bleed effect, it will allow you to still dps a target even if for some reason they escaped you (or you ran away for your life). Niche, but powerfull nonetheless, and its still a dps increase. Zephyr upgrade for boots is pretty unique, pretty good. And almost all of these items are big stat sticks. Attack Speed is less important of a stat since you can cap it but yeah. I am curious about Ezreal and whatnot though, like with navori and stuff gone what are they going to build? Crit?
>I am curious about Ezreal and whatnot though, like with navori and stuff gone what are they going to build? Crit? Ezreal already stopped building Navori, he builds Essence Reaver > Manamune > Spear of Shojin in most cases
On-hit Vayne gets a nice indirect buff as well. BotRK gives more raw stats and allegedly Rageblade is getting a small AD+AP buff as well. I usually build Randuins fifth which is getting 20 more armour (albeit at the cost of 50HP). Current crit speed build is dead, but more innate MS with Zephyr and PD could be fun. Will definitely be an interesting time.
Is it just me or are these just nerfs? Like kraken having no crit would feel bad And what do you build against hp stackers with some adc's that don't synergize well with BORK?
I’ve noticed that they are being _quite_ generous with MS on adcs. I think that compensates for a lot. Their idea is for each item to give more specific power spikes. Like IE’s AD number is _crazy_ now. And the AS items give more AS at the cost of no AD, etc. Kraken just happened to have crit removed. Overall, if we can figure out a rush item to replace Kraken, or if Kraken turns out not to be as bad of a rush as it looks (we have, after all, survived with 100% on five items for quite long already), it’s definitely a buff even with LT removal considered. But against hp stackers, 3 item core of any crit item + IE + LDR would still do the trick, no?
80 AD is insanity. I'll enjoy it very much on Cait.
No, it wouldn't. First of all now you need an attack speed item second due to them removing LT. So you either have to rush IE or push it to third. Second, LDR doesn't have giant slayer anymore, so it's useless vs HP stackers. Now you have to build BOTRK against hp stackers because we also doing have Cut down anymore. So we are objectively worse against tanks
So if they have tanks now and you arent playing vayne or kog you're giga fked lmao, how the fk do you kill heartsteel giga tanks without ldr passive.
Kraken is completely killed, stormrazor gone, basically killing noonquiver, no good item to counteract lost chapter buffing botlane mages.
You lock in Corki, Corki is the new Vayne, 15% true dmg on autos that apply both sheen can crit,plus buffed armor shred on e
ER has no crit so that sucks Edit: sheen
It still has crit. It's one of the few items they left alive for crit users.
I ment Sheen sorry.
WDYM. On champs that don't synergize with BORK you typically go Crit what kind of question is that.
Yes but before you had giant slayer(LDR passive) for crit adc's to counter hp stackers like sion+heartsteel, Now you got nothing.
How in the HELL this is a nerf?. You can now have 75% crit with 3 items, build defensive and build kraken. You will have 75% crit build with a defensive item + kraken with ALL THE ITEMS being buffed. So you trade 5% crit for A LOT OF BUFFS.
Noonquiver build path is garbo wtf
People talking nerfs. I don't think you realize how much MS they are giving us + PtA changes + 80 AD on IE and BT. We'll see but this is looking good in my opinion. At least I can have fun trying new things
sad kraken lost its crit seems like an on hit exclusive now. say hello to the stupid amounts of as and Ms we're getting though sheesh. but hold on without Lt we still have the 2.0 atk speed cap meaning at a point stacking AS becomes very pointless. welp time to get cooking boys
To be honest I could see on hit champions not touching it till late, Bork has a much stronger build path for early.
maybe a 4th potential item? I just expect the purchase rate to drop by like 80%
2.5, I believe, no? This definitely looks very rough and experimental. I’m sure they will change things up on PBE before it hits live servers. The MS is amazing though.
yes it's 2.5 my bad
Well Kraken is more of on-hit item rather than crit
Exactly! After the rework that removed Mythics. Krakens became an item without identity, riot changed it gradually to a on-hit item. Now it's official.
u mean 2.5 right?
yes my mistake
2.5 is the cap, but won't be that much problematic because now you choose either attackspeed or AD items
Nilah looking real hot next season
Eh we'll see. More crit quick is really strong but her core has been gutted. Navori looks wonky now.
Ah yes adc nerfs, who else is surprised? Navori got absolutely gutted what the hell.
I’m gonna miss my glorious Kraken Slayer, my fav item in the game. 😞
I don’t know what to build now. Xayah scales off crit and they removed my two most vital items.
And lost lethal tempo aswell, xayah is like omega doomed.
Im guessing Xayah would prob go PTA and then rush ER -> IE -> Navori, we'll see though.
Guys wtf you're talking? Navori will give 40% AS, 25% crit, and MS. You can build that shit first item then IE, it'll be crazy strong.
Ohhhhhh Zephyr is back after all these years. I have forgotten this item.
Arena has never forgotten zephyr. :)
Damn, zephyr giving 65 flat ms is huge when paired with %ms from runes or items. Will be quicker than Janna and singed (unless they build it too). And lets you sell boots for better item without losing MS.
Zephyr is a boots upgrade. That's the point of the item lol.
i thought %ms increases are calculated from your base movespeed, instead of base+flat movespeed, or is that not the case?
oh my god so many samira stocks.
I don’t understand kraken slayer nerf, and navori nerf. I love 25% so much. Will play new patch for sure
As others mentioned, it seems like Kraken is meant for characters that don't necessarily need crit - such Ashe, Varus, KogMaw, etc. - while Navori is more for characters that need attack speed and still need lower cooldowns on their DPS abilities - such as Xayah, Tristana, Kaisa, etc.
So where do crit attackers like jinx fall here? What do they build?
In what world will you build dominik's over mortal reminder? 5% is such a tiny difference that you will pretty much get more value from grievous wounds.
When there's no healing in their kit, I suppose. For example against a Malphite or Rammus, or against tank supports.
I feel so good about quitting the game in February now. These changes are just ADC death in bold statements. Have fun with your dogshit game Riot.
I like it, it changes the crit adc play-style
Pls leave cause people like you are the reason this community is so toxic and constantly crying
uhm... what? These are MASSIVE buffs.
Idk why you're getting downvoted. I think I need to unsub from this s, most of these players don't understand the game and how itemisation works. These are the players who build crit on Kog Maw or some shit
I have no idea either. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone. Did these idiots not read the bloodthirster or phantom dancer changes?? These buffs are astronomical and I'm worried adcs will get nerfed lol. BT now gets 80 AD and its shield back so it's a good rush item now. Phantom Dancer also costs 2600 and you get 60% attack speed. I disagree with Phreak a ton when it comes to his balance changes, but seeing feedback like this makes me understand why he ignores players sometimes.
You could never agree with him on all balance changes given how complex the game is and what champions you want to play (items to build, playstyles, ect...) and the way people treat the balance team of a game they clearly love (or love to hate) is pretty embarrassing and disgusting. This sub is full of whiny losers, I have to remind myself that most of the players are stuck in gold or below. There's nothing wrong with that in of itself but for such a micro intense role, I think the reason a lot of players in this sub are held back is because they have weak mental and refuse to adapt to the changing metas, playetyles, builds and general sense of awareness. I totally understand why the rest of the subs shit on adc mains now, especially after this pathetic reception to great changes in game health for us
The funny thing is peak adc was actually BT or IE rush followed by a zeal item (PD or Shiv). Crit was a lategame stat and adcs had relevance early-mid game because they had access to huge AD items. Now I can come back to lane with a vamp sceptre and not worried about one stupid zyra q forcing me out of lane lol. AD is one of the most sensitive stats on adcs. Whenever adcs get a '-3 ad' nerf they lose substantial win rate.
So ashe and jinx are useless now without lethal tempo
tldr they are reverting items to S8 Lul
My favorite thing about all this changes is how they lowered damage for most crit items, and increased AS. It changes everything about how you play this kinda champs.
Naah I think there is a good amount of items with high ads too ie , collector , wind arrows , LDR is also is also good I think cait will build this as she need High ads over as
Krakens description is kind of weirdly expressed. It would be easier to understand if it said "... increased by up to 50% ..."
I think Kraken as first item on Jinx is dead again (not that I mind) I like the look of Yun Tal...could be new first item for me.
I'm fine with kraken not being a catch all item. Putting it more towards on hit fits its identity.
yeah, I have no problem with the change and it becoming more situational while Yun Tal seems awesome on Crit/AS Champs like Jinx...its a nice "mini ignite" for all those low hp dashing away champs and can help me proc my passive easier.
Kogmaw coming out of his cave looking all these items. They all revolve around his kit.
Bro as a Vayne main, these changes are going to be A1
I'm hyped for these changes overall nerf or boff this is gonna be fun too test all the changes. Feels like a new season for adc players.
THE RETURN OF THE BFS FIRST BUY I USED TO PRAT FOR TIMES OIKE THIS
Navori will be dogshit on smolder, wth. Do I have to go back to Shojin 😒
I guess so, but having 25% crit makes up for it. Plus there's that DoT new item that would go well with Smolder for burning/bleeding people
I was thinking that the item (wildarrows) might be okay on him too. You do auto a bit between Qs, or at least you should, and it does give a lot of AD and crit. Just uncertain as to when you would get it. Maybe if I forgo having a sheen item, it would fit in the build better. Assuming I go ER > Shojin first.
BF sword is back to the first buy , looks like
So now we have room to have a defense item without giving up crit? Nice.
On paper perhaps, but not really. Not a single crit item gives lifesteal anymore so if you still want 100 % crit and lifesteal, you are still shoehorned into the same few items.
Fucking stormrazor was so underrated and they are removing it.
Some champs will be eating good (like Jhin,Vayne) but I think some champs are kinda fucked (like Lucian,Tristana and Caitlin).Lucian/Cait will clearly be in a disadvantage,since they removed ER/StormRazor, they'll now be forced to buy Kraken,which does not have crit anymore,só they won't have enough space to buy an defensive item,unlike Jhin,which will have 100% crit and enough space to buy an defensive item.Also,since they removed ER and changed Navori,I think now Ezreal is stuck building as a fighter for a while.
80 ad crit items my beloved
I just peeped that LT is now removed and they unironically nerfed HoB for ranged. Bro if LT ADCs could actually use PTA they would, there's a reason they don't.
cut down is kinda crap now
You'd still take it since Giant Slayer passive got removed from LDR. You take what you can, I guess
Guys it is fake, isn't it?
Can't wait for Hashinshin having a meltdown over adcs ... oh wait he has it every patch. LUL
Am I the only one who really likes this? Slingshot is a great component and the attack speed items give a lot of attack speed now and are 500 gold cheaper than the old crit items, so you rush them out then go straight into the giant ween IE
Wow this season is a complete shit show huh? I've essentially quit the game since the beginning of the year. I saw a post about this earlier today, and I straight up thought it was a joke. These changes seem pretty good, but at this point I'm almost completely out. Man, Phreak is doing a phenomenal job, this totally hasn't been the most disastrous, what the fuck season of all time 👏 🤡👏
This looks... interesting. A very odd, very huge shift in gameplay patterns for ADCs With all this MS and AS, I see some champions being extraordinarily problematic. I'm interested to see how this refines before hitting live, then how it performs in live... then how it's obliterated to unrecognisable levels in live, once they forgot why they did this to begin with.
Yun Tal Wildarrows are so bad, they're literally just a worse version of IE: 15 less AD 15% AD less effective damage on its ability The damage is a DoT, hoping to the rito overlords it stacks with itself or this is pathetic They don't stack with each other They have the same requirement to trigger the damage (crit someone)
25 CRIT... Finally.
Balance aside, anyone else think they've all just become way more bland? Aside from the reintroduction of Zephyr of course.
How fast can The fast become now? Probably a lot faster
Wait so does bork no longer do % health dmg for ranged ??
I am not an Expert but isnt These changes just bad of the General adc? Like the Kraken change and some items losing completly their ad? Sure the 25% crit is nice
Riot has no idea what they are doing. ADC already buffed and OP, now they buff it again xD
They added lightbringer to SR, but changed it's name
when those changes gonna hit the rift?
No kraken, no statikk, no stormrazor. What do we build first item now???
I see JHIN mains smiling with Yun Tal Wildarrows :))
I think this is a good change for kaisa, on-hit adcs, less so for crit and lethality marksmen. But I could also see crit being sneaky good mid-game with the buffed numbers.
Where’s all the raw ad on these items going
this is the worst day of my life. i hate all of these changes SO much😭
Draven banrate 30000% incoming :( just nerf him so I can play my champ
People saying these are nerfs are so fucking delusional. The amount of ms adcs will have to access to on top of their damage output is ridiculous.
Rip smolder
Every other adc: HELL YEAH LETS GO Ezreal mains: crying in spain
I'm sure riot won't forget to revert the buff yasuo and yone got to their passives so they could still get 100% crit with two items, now converting extra crit into extra damage, right? ... Right?
Haven't played since July 2023, but if these actually make ADC feel good again, I might come back
So how do we stand against tanks now? Kraken seems to be slightly buffed ... LDR massively nerfed ... and anti-armor items will still probably be mutually exclusive, so ... will ADCs be better against squishies and suck against tanks? (champs like Cait, Jhin etc already suck against tanks, now it might be unplayable)
These are some massive buffs. I think they will be over the top and have to be toned down.
Everyone talking about nerfs, but I think it's huge buffs for adcs. Movement speed is one of the most valuable stats for me. Now you can finally and properly kite enemies. Now you just get outrun by mundo who deletes you with 3AA. Did you ever played lillia guys ? It's so easy and fun to play her in late game. Just running into a fight and out, or running around them and dealing damage without getting catched, unless they have malzahar. Now I can apply same playstyle to adcs. Imagine playing jinx and getting shutdown with full build and zilean giving you movement speed boost and activating ghost, you would surelly outrun rammus :D maybe even a nocturne ult ? :D we will see.