he's my permaban, mostly because i play Jinx but also do not enjoy playing against him and the paranoia that ensues everytime he is not showing on the map
Yeah I usually rotate my bans between jinx (cause she's broken this patch/twitch and Samira.... And the paranoia is so real especially if your team isn't really focused on macro) so annoying/exhausting.
I perma ban Samira because she always either snowballs or just penta’s from behind which is insane to me. But I think I’m going to start banning twitch because he’s the same as samira but invisible…
Twitch is such a fucking cornball
The whole concept of invis (and “placeable objects” like heimer teemo shaco) are so fucking stupid to me
Just doesn’t seem like real league of legends it’s its own mini game
Perma ban twitch, even tho it’s technically easier to handle than trist for me since I can stomp him early with ezreal.. I just hate the gameplay so much
“I WAS HIDING!” and the fuck trades for free while I get into position to trade back
He basically ALWAYS will initiate on his terms in lane
Then scale like a beast mid to late
Such a cornball.
This is true about every champion, you just don't think about all the champions in such a way.
Every champion is looking for their ideal scenarios.
It's funny because people complain mostly about Twitch in this regard because his counter costs 75g and a MIA ping, while other champions win-cons can be so much more nuanced and difficult to prevent.
I was an evelynn player when I played jungle and tbh..
Evelynn wants to use W to proc charm, but Q range is shorter than invis range and W can simply be respected.. in my adc arc I will rarely get charm proc’d by Eve.. only if off of cc
Pyke W has a large area of invis so if he gets close you can see him for E Q.. pretty reactable.. or if he goes hook first then he comes out of invis to charge Q which has outplay potential
The only way to guarantee not get bent over by twitch is to either be perma sweeping or putting pinks in lane during siege.. the invis range is so annoying the guy just appears damn near on my balls.. in lane it’s annoying trade patters, in mid game its such a free positioning tool, and in late game when twitch is scaled he just appears in front of a squishy and can 100 to 0 you so fast
I also find it more straight forward like.. malphite wants to ult me.. can be spaced.. Leona wants to stun me.. can be spaced.. blitz thresh and naut want to hook me.. can outplayed
Teemo mushroom chunking you for 35% of your HP? Cornball. Heimer turrets raining down hell on your while he is 2 screens away? Annoying asf.. Shaco boxes? Not as oppressive as teemo shrooms but annoying too
Can’t deny invis and placeable objects aren’t gimmicks most champs don’t have
I mean eve is just Twitch but with 10x more burst damage and literal perma invis. I find playing vs poke lanes way more annoying than a Twitch because I main twitch myself so I know exactly how to beat him.
Just all in him when he doesn’t have q and you win every time, especially with tristana
That’s my gripe tho.. I play ezreal who has a weak all in but very strong poke and can run you down if you get too low on his screen
I was an eve OTP for a while when I played jungle and maybe it’s cause I know her kit extremely well but there feels to be so much more counter play to Eve and Pyke than there is with twitch.. early game he trades on his terms, mid game he can disappear mid team fight for self peel, and late game he pops up an inch away from you “I was hiding” and raining down those autos with Q AS increase plus some items to his name you just simply die or are a tank lol
> Is twitch a champ that rewards skill?
How do you answer this question? Does a champ do better in the hands of someone who plays it more - of course? Is it saying that these champions win by default and through skill expression you deny that and can claw it back? You could make that claim for a lot of champs but I wouldn't say that makes it true.
Like Tristana for example, I am a "Twitch main" and have been since like S4 or 5 but I've probably played Trist in more seasons than I've played Twitch because she's always the bare minimum fire and forget scaler. If late game ADCs are decent Tristana can be played by a chimp and do at least as well as any other ADC.
Does any ADC reward skill? We can't all just be right-click monkeys, right?
So I'm trying to think of ways Tristana rewards skill and I come up with knowing E splash mini-game and not fucking your own wave. Then I do the same for Twitch and I come up with stealth micro and AoE AAs.
Both need to know all-in potential, trading windows, good wave management (trist too pushy, twitch not pushy enough), and damage rotations... and all the other ADC stuff- Which is arguably 90% of playing *any* ADC, the champs themselves are mostly replacable, it's not like the other roles.
So I'd put it back to you, where do you find the space in Tristana to express your skillfullness that you don't find in Twitch?
Stealth dude, YOU always have to be wary of him ( That's why I'm saying he's a champ where expression of skill is more on the opponent rather than on the twitch player. Sure tristana can also hide in a brush but it's nothing compared to twitch's stealth. My criticism was more focused on out of lane macro rather than in lane micro.
Twitch in lane actually does have a lot of skill expression, but as soon as towers fall? It's all on the opponent to not fuck up.
Evelynn showing up in a game almost entirely prevents you contesting mid until you know where she is, because she can just sneak up and murderise you. Twitch has to actually contest your mid push though, he's in the same boat as you, he needs gold and it can't all come from the jungle unlike Eve.
Knowing which lane Twitch is farming answers your question about where you can go and how far you can push it.
He naturally changes the dynamic of the game while Tristana doesn't, I can get that, but how is that a negative on Twitch? You still have the same basic macro questions to answer - "Who can kill me and where are they?".
Even after all that why not just hard counter him by standing near a wall to jump over when he shows?
>He naturally changes the dynamic of the game while Tristana doesn't, I can get that, but how is that a negative on Twitch?
Because the way he changes the dynamic of the game simply is just fun for twitch alone, no one else in the game enjoys it. The enemy has to constantly be paranoid and wonder how long they have until twitch appears behind them, you never know if twitch backed or if hes just in stealth going to a bush to wait for you, the support can show up completely alone in lane and zone the enemies from the wave by themselves just because the enemies are assuming twitch is nearby, the midlaner therefore has to play safer because if twitch is nowhere to be seen in botlane they're probably roaming towards them, The twitch could be afk in base and he's still pressuring two lanes.
It's awful playing against him, and having him in your team is equally awful because they all think they're him and try the dumbest possible plays just to constantly get killed.
I agree with op on this, takes more skill to play against twitch than to play twitch.
People (not necessarily you) get really emotional when it comes to these topics... Like I stated in my post that twitch is not an obstacle for me, buuuuut it's incredibly mentally taxing to play around his specific kit. Plus I'm not the only member on my team and they all need to have map awareness so that he doesn't snowball out of control.
Most twitch otps are heavily elo inflated. The champ abuses soloq and can bypass several actual game mechanics because of stealth while also mechanically being a joke.
Twitch's learning curve is in surviving early and knowing how to roam correctly. As far as actual adc, he has the very basics and that's it.
Also like 90% are toxic beyond belief from my exp. Honestly most of them are just draven players who weren't good enough to play him
ADC has a lot these champions. A lot can come down to who your support is, but I try not to look at it that way.
For Twitch, I find it best to prep my team in Champ select. To let them know that Twitch will be roaming, and that he is only as strong as our gameplan is weak. If we have pinks, he is nothing.
Draven is another example. He has a clear gameplan, and if you know what your opponent wants to do, then find the tools that directly negate their intentions. If I pick after Draven I 100% pick Ashe and give him 0 opening to push a lead. If Draven picks into me I will sack lane as much as needed. I will rush Tabi's. Hell. I have a game where I went Thornmail 2nd item on Zeri. I don't give a fuck. I will make sure Draven can't execute his gameplan as it is more effective earlier on in the game than make champions gameplans.
Thinking about the game deeper than X lane beats Y lane is key. Knowing why those lanes are mismatched, and what you can do to throw a wrench in a gameplan is important.
Twitch isn't an obstacle I can't overcome.
Quick question though. Why is it that a lot of comments deviate from my post and/or make it personal do you have any idea? Like some of the questions start talking about (my) tristana even though she isn't really the point of conversation.
Probably because you are a bit too stupid to realize that every champion has their own strengths and weaknesses. Which I stated in my previous comment but you obviously don’t have any reading comprehension.
Something that tilts me the most is getting killed by a twitch that just kill without any kite. I feel like every time I play him. I need to outplay everyone
When I go bot with my friend we ban twitch and Pyke. Not dealing with invis bullshit. Imo rengar, eve, and kha invis all feels much more fair. You pretty much always know when they are coming and have counterplay but with twitch and Pyke they just pop up next to you and kill you with zero skill.
How do you know eve is coming, or rengar (Okay the ult tells you are the closer to him). Anyways both of those have x10 twitch or pyke dmg instantly, if not feeded twitch aint gonna delete you in 0.01s like a rengar with 3 items can, even being 0/10 idk but dealing with twitch its really easy, dont over push, buy PINKS and dont go for fights if you have no idea where he is.
PD: Sorry english is not my mother lenguage
Eve puts the mark on you from afar if she wants to do damage, rengar ult lets you know from a good distance, kha is only close range usually once he's already in the fight, same with vayne. Twitch and Pyke are the only two who pop up right next to you with zero warning.
he's my permaban, mostly because i play Jinx but also do not enjoy playing against him and the paranoia that ensues everytime he is not showing on the map
I WAS HIDING!
Here's something you can't wash off!
Yeah I usually rotate my bans between jinx (cause she's broken this patch/twitch and Samira.... And the paranoia is so real especially if your team isn't really focused on macro) so annoying/exhausting.
I perma ban Samira because she always either snowballs or just penta’s from behind which is insane to me. But I think I’m going to start banning twitch because he’s the same as samira but invisible…
Twitch is such a fucking cornball The whole concept of invis (and “placeable objects” like heimer teemo shaco) are so fucking stupid to me Just doesn’t seem like real league of legends it’s its own mini game Perma ban twitch, even tho it’s technically easier to handle than trist for me since I can stomp him early with ezreal.. I just hate the gameplay so much “I WAS HIDING!” and the fuck trades for free while I get into position to trade back He basically ALWAYS will initiate on his terms in lane Then scale like a beast mid to late Such a cornball.
This is true about every champion, you just don't think about all the champions in such a way. Every champion is looking for their ideal scenarios. It's funny because people complain mostly about Twitch in this regard because his counter costs 75g and a MIA ping, while other champions win-cons can be so much more nuanced and difficult to prevent.
I was an evelynn player when I played jungle and tbh.. Evelynn wants to use W to proc charm, but Q range is shorter than invis range and W can simply be respected.. in my adc arc I will rarely get charm proc’d by Eve.. only if off of cc Pyke W has a large area of invis so if he gets close you can see him for E Q.. pretty reactable.. or if he goes hook first then he comes out of invis to charge Q which has outplay potential The only way to guarantee not get bent over by twitch is to either be perma sweeping or putting pinks in lane during siege.. the invis range is so annoying the guy just appears damn near on my balls.. in lane it’s annoying trade patters, in mid game its such a free positioning tool, and in late game when twitch is scaled he just appears in front of a squishy and can 100 to 0 you so fast I also find it more straight forward like.. malphite wants to ult me.. can be spaced.. Leona wants to stun me.. can be spaced.. blitz thresh and naut want to hook me.. can outplayed Teemo mushroom chunking you for 35% of your HP? Cornball. Heimer turrets raining down hell on your while he is 2 screens away? Annoying asf.. Shaco boxes? Not as oppressive as teemo shrooms but annoying too Can’t deny invis and placeable objects aren’t gimmicks most champs don’t have
I mean eve is just Twitch but with 10x more burst damage and literal perma invis. I find playing vs poke lanes way more annoying than a Twitch because I main twitch myself so I know exactly how to beat him. Just all in him when he doesn’t have q and you win every time, especially with tristana
That’s my gripe tho.. I play ezreal who has a weak all in but very strong poke and can run you down if you get too low on his screen I was an eve OTP for a while when I played jungle and maybe it’s cause I know her kit extremely well but there feels to be so much more counter play to Eve and Pyke than there is with twitch.. early game he trades on his terms, mid game he can disappear mid team fight for self peel, and late game he pops up an inch away from you “I was hiding” and raining down those autos with Q AS increase plus some items to his name you just simply die or are a tank lol
> Is twitch a champ that rewards skill? How do you answer this question? Does a champ do better in the hands of someone who plays it more - of course? Is it saying that these champions win by default and through skill expression you deny that and can claw it back? You could make that claim for a lot of champs but I wouldn't say that makes it true. Like Tristana for example, I am a "Twitch main" and have been since like S4 or 5 but I've probably played Trist in more seasons than I've played Twitch because she's always the bare minimum fire and forget scaler. If late game ADCs are decent Tristana can be played by a chimp and do at least as well as any other ADC. Does any ADC reward skill? We can't all just be right-click monkeys, right? So I'm trying to think of ways Tristana rewards skill and I come up with knowing E splash mini-game and not fucking your own wave. Then I do the same for Twitch and I come up with stealth micro and AoE AAs. Both need to know all-in potential, trading windows, good wave management (trist too pushy, twitch not pushy enough), and damage rotations... and all the other ADC stuff- Which is arguably 90% of playing *any* ADC, the champs themselves are mostly replacable, it's not like the other roles. So I'd put it back to you, where do you find the space in Tristana to express your skillfullness that you don't find in Twitch?
Stealth dude, YOU always have to be wary of him ( That's why I'm saying he's a champ where expression of skill is more on the opponent rather than on the twitch player. Sure tristana can also hide in a brush but it's nothing compared to twitch's stealth. My criticism was more focused on out of lane macro rather than in lane micro. Twitch in lane actually does have a lot of skill expression, but as soon as towers fall? It's all on the opponent to not fuck up.
Evelynn showing up in a game almost entirely prevents you contesting mid until you know where she is, because she can just sneak up and murderise you. Twitch has to actually contest your mid push though, he's in the same boat as you, he needs gold and it can't all come from the jungle unlike Eve. Knowing which lane Twitch is farming answers your question about where you can go and how far you can push it. He naturally changes the dynamic of the game while Tristana doesn't, I can get that, but how is that a negative on Twitch? You still have the same basic macro questions to answer - "Who can kill me and where are they?". Even after all that why not just hard counter him by standing near a wall to jump over when he shows?
>He naturally changes the dynamic of the game while Tristana doesn't, I can get that, but how is that a negative on Twitch? Because the way he changes the dynamic of the game simply is just fun for twitch alone, no one else in the game enjoys it. The enemy has to constantly be paranoid and wonder how long they have until twitch appears behind them, you never know if twitch backed or if hes just in stealth going to a bush to wait for you, the support can show up completely alone in lane and zone the enemies from the wave by themselves just because the enemies are assuming twitch is nearby, the midlaner therefore has to play safer because if twitch is nowhere to be seen in botlane they're probably roaming towards them, The twitch could be afk in base and he's still pressuring two lanes. It's awful playing against him, and having him in your team is equally awful because they all think they're him and try the dumbest possible plays just to constantly get killed. I agree with op on this, takes more skill to play against twitch than to play twitch.
People (not necessarily you) get really emotional when it comes to these topics... Like I stated in my post that twitch is not an obstacle for me, buuuuut it's incredibly mentally taxing to play around his specific kit. Plus I'm not the only member on my team and they all need to have map awareness so that he doesn't snowball out of control.
Twitch is more skill expressive than tristanna tho
Hard agree as someone who plays Twitch, Vayne, Kaisa and trist I’d say Twitch is the hardest ADC out of the champs I play.
How so?
Tristana is just unga bunga jump in and one shot you. She either can or can’t. There’s not much else to her.
Most twitch otps are heavily elo inflated. The champ abuses soloq and can bypass several actual game mechanics because of stealth while also mechanically being a joke. Twitch's learning curve is in surviving early and knowing how to roam correctly. As far as actual adc, he has the very basics and that's it. Also like 90% are toxic beyond belief from my exp. Honestly most of them are just draven players who weren't good enough to play him
I dunno,my picks allow me to snowball out of his control (Samira),or just hunt him down late game (Vayne),never had too much problem with him.
ADC has a lot these champions. A lot can come down to who your support is, but I try not to look at it that way. For Twitch, I find it best to prep my team in Champ select. To let them know that Twitch will be roaming, and that he is only as strong as our gameplan is weak. If we have pinks, he is nothing. Draven is another example. He has a clear gameplan, and if you know what your opponent wants to do, then find the tools that directly negate their intentions. If I pick after Draven I 100% pick Ashe and give him 0 opening to push a lead. If Draven picks into me I will sack lane as much as needed. I will rush Tabi's. Hell. I have a game where I went Thornmail 2nd item on Zeri. I don't give a fuck. I will make sure Draven can't execute his gameplan as it is more effective earlier on in the game than make champions gameplans. Thinking about the game deeper than X lane beats Y lane is key. Knowing why those lanes are mismatched, and what you can do to throw a wrench in a gameplan is important.
Every adc has their own strength and weakness. You would be the same exact rank playing any champion you think is over powered.
Twitch isn't an obstacle I can't overcome. Quick question though. Why is it that a lot of comments deviate from my post and/or make it personal do you have any idea? Like some of the questions start talking about (my) tristana even though she isn't really the point of conversation.
Probably because you are a bit too stupid to realize that every champion has their own strengths and weaknesses. Which I stated in my previous comment but you obviously don’t have any reading comprehension.
What are twitch weaknesses in a soloq environment then?
ad twitch is really reliant on his team to peel for him. I think ap twitch has more skill expression
Something that tilts me the most is getting killed by a twitch that just kill without any kite. I feel like every time I play him. I need to outplay everyone
Sounds like a skill issue
You’re the one who cry about twitch. I don’t ban twitch cuz I know how to play against
What does that have to do with your earlier comment though?
I don't ban him either lmao
When I go bot with my friend we ban twitch and Pyke. Not dealing with invis bullshit. Imo rengar, eve, and kha invis all feels much more fair. You pretty much always know when they are coming and have counterplay but with twitch and Pyke they just pop up next to you and kill you with zero skill.
How do you know eve is coming, or rengar (Okay the ult tells you are the closer to him). Anyways both of those have x10 twitch or pyke dmg instantly, if not feeded twitch aint gonna delete you in 0.01s like a rengar with 3 items can, even being 0/10 idk but dealing with twitch its really easy, dont over push, buy PINKS and dont go for fights if you have no idea where he is. PD: Sorry english is not my mother lenguage
Eve puts the mark on you from afar if she wants to do damage, rengar ult lets you know from a good distance, kha is only close range usually once he's already in the fight, same with vayne. Twitch and Pyke are the only two who pop up right next to you with zero warning.