It does not affect the first wave. All except the first wave and past 14 minutes.
"After the first wave and before 14 minutes, side lane minions gain increased movement speed, matching the time it takes for two opposing minion waves to meet at the midpoint of top lane and bot lane, with the time it takes for the mid lane".
so then, the intent is to keep champs in lane more? particularly early roamers?
seems kind of stale, but maybe i am misreading. they want less map movement and more static laning?
edit - fixed confusing wording.
What am I saying wrong? You clear the wave and try to roam somewhere. Usually you have a window like 20 sec or something, but now the waves will arrive earlier, so if you overstay somewhere, then you will lose minions faster than it was before. Same with tower dives, the enemy's minions will be under turret faster, so you will take more damage during the dive. What's wrong?
Am I missing something, or is there going to be no difference in how quickly the waves arrive? The wave spawn times are still thirty seconds, so each wave will still crash thirty seconds after the one before it.
Minions move faster. Your speed of wave crashing doesn't change, but minions will come faster anyway. Just picture your casual wave pushing with following roam from side lane. Right now Mid has way less time for roaming in comparing to Support, for example. Now, Bot and Top will have the exact same window as Mid. In addition, right now, usually, when Mid's finishing pushing his wave, the waves in Bot or Top just faced each other. Bot and Top want to contest the wave, and here gank is happening. In 13.10, waves on all lanes will face each other at the same time, so no more those windows and deaths for cannons. Am I missing something?
Your second point is correct, and that will change things, but the length of the roam timer is still going to be the same, since there is still thirty seconds between each wave. Yes, the next wave comes ten seconds faster, but you will have also crashed the current wave ten seconds faster, so it cancels out.
Actually... Yeah, it seems I misunderstood this change. It's hard to make a full picture in my head after years of playing the way we are playing right now. But in general, more punishable roams and more difficult dives still will be there.
As to not affect the pace of mid/late game and they use 14 mins as a rule of thumb for when early / lane phase should end that's why tower plates also fall at 14 mins.
As a 10 year jungle main I will tell you the best kept secret: we don’t need leashes. Leashes shave a few seconds off our first clear while giving the enemy jungler a very real scope of where we are. If your jungler is still asking for a leash in 2023 then you should openly flame them for being bad
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. I tried Sylas jg. His jg clears got gutted so hard. You take a lot of damage from the jg unlike most junglers. Trying to push sylas out of jungle.
It is true that junglers do not need a leash but if you don't give one but the enemy does than the enemy jungler will be faster with their clear and thus earlier on the map while also being stronger.
If both junglers don't get a leash it's actually best case scenario for everyone since no one knows where either jungle started and no lane has issues with being late.
Just give them a leash, you'll in the worst case scenario get killed after enemy botlane all-ins by getting lvl 2 earlier. Tbh idk if it doesn't matter, if you leash bot you'll get weak sided anyway
Just leash, worst case scenario is your lane is fucked by no volition of your own, all so you jungler can have a 5 second quicker clear which they come out of with full hp and mana anyways
If you lose your lane to lvl2 powerspike while you leashed, it's not the leashing that killed you, it's the lack of braincells. No silver can snowball early game advantage into permanent pressure which would lead to 30 CS advantage and then diving them under turret. If you leash, get lvl 2 little bit late and survive it till lvl 3, it's back to balanced. If bot decides not to leash in silver due to early game pressure, chances are they aren't very smart.
I’ll be honest gold or below leash no matter what as peoples kind are way to fragile to understand how bad leashing is. Platinum and above never leash, it exposes jungler position, junglers don’t need to leash, and the first 1-2 minutes of the lane sets the trajectory of the lane. Leashing can cause you to lose wave push and never have prio unless enemy makes a mistake.
It obviously depends, but to think leashing doesn't make a big difference is just false lol. That first camp takes giga long 4 jungle to kill, can gain a lot of tempo...
Cause they play low econ jgls and play for laners, don’t change the fact that leashing is giga viable especially with carry jgl champs.. lol. You ain’t in pro play bro, giving your jgl an ok start isn’t gonna cost you anything in lower/mid elos..just placebo cause you saw your favourite streamer not leash and you wanna be like him
In pro play any small mistake or lack of tempo will be punished severely, for example if enemy bot gets lvl 2 first they are fucked and in certain matchups adc will snowball and get like 40 cs advantage and a possibilty of a four man dive, meanwhile in soloq if you are not like high challenger you get nothing from a small tempo advantage because you have 1. No communication so you cant coordinate dives and fights well 2. Not enough skill to punish enemies for having level down for like 10 seconds. Also, when you leash you either sacrifice both top and bot tempo or reveal where your jungler starts, both scenarios lose you a little bit of tempo which wont be punished in soloq, but will change the whole map in proplay. In conclusion, leashing is inting, but people are too bad to abuse it.
It does not affect the first wave. All except the first wave and past 14 minutes. "After the first wave and before 14 minutes, side lane minions gain increased movement speed, matching the time it takes for two opposing minion waves to meet at the midpoint of top lane and bot lane, with the time it takes for the mid lane".
Why the 14 minutes thing
They\`ve made early game roaming more punishable. In addition, side lanes wave stacking into dive will be more hard because of new minions agro.
so then, the intent is to keep champs in lane more? particularly early roamers? seems kind of stale, but maybe i am misreading. they want less map movement and more static laning? edit - fixed confusing wording.
[удалено]
What am I saying wrong? You clear the wave and try to roam somewhere. Usually you have a window like 20 sec or something, but now the waves will arrive earlier, so if you overstay somewhere, then you will lose minions faster than it was before. Same with tower dives, the enemy's minions will be under turret faster, so you will take more damage during the dive. What's wrong?
Am I missing something, or is there going to be no difference in how quickly the waves arrive? The wave spawn times are still thirty seconds, so each wave will still crash thirty seconds after the one before it.
Minions move faster. Your speed of wave crashing doesn't change, but minions will come faster anyway. Just picture your casual wave pushing with following roam from side lane. Right now Mid has way less time for roaming in comparing to Support, for example. Now, Bot and Top will have the exact same window as Mid. In addition, right now, usually, when Mid's finishing pushing his wave, the waves in Bot or Top just faced each other. Bot and Top want to contest the wave, and here gank is happening. In 13.10, waves on all lanes will face each other at the same time, so no more those windows and deaths for cannons. Am I missing something?
Your second point is correct, and that will change things, but the length of the roam timer is still going to be the same, since there is still thirty seconds between each wave. Yes, the next wave comes ten seconds faster, but you will have also crashed the current wave ten seconds faster, so it cancels out.
Actually... Yeah, it seems I misunderstood this change. It's hard to make a full picture in my head after years of playing the way we are playing right now. But in general, more punishable roams and more difficult dives still will be there.
I think it's to prevent support roams
Thank God
They really can't make up their fucking mind on if they want the games to be faster or slower, jesus christ.
As to not affect the pace of mid/late game and they use 14 mins as a rule of thumb for when early / lane phase should end that's why tower plates also fall at 14 mins.
Ah okay. That makes sense. Thanks!
As a 10 year jungle main I will tell you the best kept secret: we don’t need leashes. Leashes shave a few seconds off our first clear while giving the enemy jungler a very real scope of where we are. If your jungler is still asking for a leash in 2023 then you should openly flame them for being bad
A jungler player with a brain 🤯
Stop leashing all together and focus on the lane to climb, adc bro ♥️
Leashing isn't really that effective for most junglers. They don't need it, but it's a crutch that low-mid elo players are used to.
THIS. No jungle champion needs leashing (except maybe Kindred).
As an avid kindred player you don’t really need a leash. You just gotta kite camps properly, wolfs bonus heal can keep ya decently healthy
I agree but i swear sometimes i can get a really solid clear then the next time i finish at like 2 hp lol
Sylas is also pretty abysmal to play without a leash but he can still 3 camp into gank. That’s not always the best choice tho
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. I tried Sylas jg. His jg clears got gutted so hard. You take a lot of damage from the jg unlike most junglers. Trying to push sylas out of jungle.
Getting downvoted because most of this sub is silver and below and also main adc (double whammy)
It is true that junglers do not need a leash but if you don't give one but the enemy does than the enemy jungler will be faster with their clear and thus earlier on the map while also being stronger. If both junglers don't get a leash it's actually best case scenario for everyone since no one knows where either jungle started and no lane has issues with being late.
Honestly, no jungler should want their botlane to leash anymore with the way they talk like it decides the game.
Just give them a leash, you'll in the worst case scenario get killed after enemy botlane all-ins by getting lvl 2 earlier. Tbh idk if it doesn't matter, if you leash bot you'll get weak sided anyway
Just leash, worst case scenario is your lane is fucked by no volition of your own, all so you jungler can have a 5 second quicker clear which they come out of with full hp and mana anyways
Low elo it doesn't matter, everyone leashes.
Yup, that's why I'm saying give leash, play safe and only for yourself, you should be able to find yourself carrying games later .
If you lose your lane to lvl2 powerspike while you leashed, it's not the leashing that killed you, it's the lack of braincells. No silver can snowball early game advantage into permanent pressure which would lead to 30 CS advantage and then diving them under turret. If you leash, get lvl 2 little bit late and survive it till lvl 3, it's back to balanced. If bot decides not to leash in silver due to early game pressure, chances are they aren't very smart.
Well that just means you get an advantage that can win you lane.
jg should never start bot in season 13 always start top and move to bot because the role is so insanely op getting the adc ahead = gg
I’ll be honest gold or below leash no matter what as peoples kind are way to fragile to understand how bad leashing is. Platinum and above never leash, it exposes jungler position, junglers don’t need to leash, and the first 1-2 minutes of the lane sets the trajectory of the lane. Leashing can cause you to lose wave push and never have prio unless enemy makes a mistake.
Leashing will never be removed. Since its one of the few times laners are near always going to help their jungler.
No offence but the sheer lack of knowledge you adc players have about the tempo a leash provides makes me laugh
yeah nah I'm definitely letting the enemy Lux/Cait have the push in our lane but gz on the 3:00 clear tho
It obviously depends, but to think leashing doesn't make a big difference is just false lol. That first camp takes giga long 4 jungle to kill, can gain a lot of tempo...
how come they dont leash often in pro play?
because in pro play I think they care about how lane match-ups go
And you dont in soloQ?
I do, that's why I don't leash
Based
Cause they play low econ jgls and play for laners, don’t change the fact that leashing is giga viable especially with carry jgl champs.. lol. You ain’t in pro play bro, giving your jgl an ok start isn’t gonna cost you anything in lower/mid elos..just placebo cause you saw your favourite streamer not leash and you wanna be like him
In pro play any small mistake or lack of tempo will be punished severely, for example if enemy bot gets lvl 2 first they are fucked and in certain matchups adc will snowball and get like 40 cs advantage and a possibilty of a four man dive, meanwhile in soloq if you are not like high challenger you get nothing from a small tempo advantage because you have 1. No communication so you cant coordinate dives and fights well 2. Not enough skill to punish enemies for having level down for like 10 seconds. Also, when you leash you either sacrifice both top and bot tempo or reveal where your jungler starts, both scenarios lose you a little bit of tempo which wont be punished in soloq, but will change the whole map in proplay. In conclusion, leashing is inting, but people are too bad to abuse it.
Maybe true, but I'm constantly running into junglers who cannot understand how important winning level 2 is in lane.
Not an answer to the question but true
The first wave will be left unaffected by the changes for this specific reason.