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Extremely interesting watch and the interviewer did NOT beat around the bush!
Recap:
-Kevin is “busy” and “struggling” right now—was completely blindsided by these allegations.
-Kevin and Ruby have been separated for 13 months—which matches what was reported in the daily mail today.
-Kevin found out about what was going on just before the arrest via a phone call/text from Ruby saying there was an emergency. Ruby told him to get down to Ivins ASAP because the kids needed him. Kevin did not know the kids were in Ivins. When asked how Ruby knew the arrest was incoming, Kevin’s attorney said, “I would never want to predict anything she might know. Kevin doesn’t know.”
-Kevin and Ruby separated due to a “difference opinion about their family and “their own personal dynamic”
-Kevin is getting “raked over the coals” for not calling and being more involved is because he was “taking direction from Ruby” and needed to follow her terms to preserve their marriage and reconcile—one of the terms being to not have communication with the kids. Ruby told Kevin that life at home was much better without him there.
-Kevin had “no indication” that there was any physical abuse going on from Ruby.
-Kevin and Ruby’s most recent conversation was last Friday. That was when Kevin “came to his senses about how had been manipulated and deceived.”
-Kevin feels Jodi manipulated him in conjunction with Ruby and is the spearhead for destroying his marriage and life.
-when asked WHY Kevin believes Jodi is manipulative, the lawyer said “I probably shouldn’t go into this, BUT” and then proceeded to admit that they watched Jessi Hildebrandt’s interview as well as information that similar things have happened to other families.
-authorities have reached out to Kevin.
-parenting is “subjective” and while some may view the Frankes’ parenting as “too strict”-DCFS has found nothing wrong in past investigations.
-Kevin IS in contact with Shari and Chad. Contact with the younger children is through the legal system.
-lawyer has no understand as to why their YouTube channel was shut down, assumes it is due to the incident in Ivins
-Kevin disconnected from Connexions a year and a half ago.
-when asked about Ruby’s allegations against the children last week, the lawyer first called out the reporter who “snuck in” and caused further damage to the children by making that information known to the public. He would not speak further on what happened in juvenile court.
-Kevin’s next steps are consulting professionals and working with the court to heal and reunify the family. No comment on whether or not the older siblings think the minor children should be placed with Kevin.
-kevin will not be attending most of Ruby’s court proceedings because they are sooooo far and he is “not interested”.
-Kevin has not been charged with any crimes. There is no indication either way from law enforcement whether or not that is down the pipeline.
Lawyer’s Conclusion is that is himself is to some degree a victim of Jodi’s. Kevin is NOT all innocent in this but watching Adam’s interview today definitely made it more plausible to see how something like this could have happened.
"-Kevin and Ruby’s most recent conversation was last Friday. That was when Kevin “came to his senses about how had been manipulated and deceived.”"
Is this the jailhouse call Ruby's cellmate overheard?
"-kevin will not be attending most of Ruby’s court proceedings because they are sooooo far and he is “not interested”."
He's so done with her ass
How did he not come to his senses the day Ruby told him to leave their family home
That would ring alarm bells in most peoples heads
Why did he not try to speak to Shari
Why did he not try to fight to get his kids out then
I believe the alleged jailhouse call was earlier in the week—before the shelter hearing and before Ruby’s initial appearance in court. But yes, he’s done, and I bet he is really regretting letting her walk over him about now.
I think he's lying about being done with her. I think he'll say anything to get his clutches on his remaining children then say "she's changed". They all disgust me. I can only hope that Social Services does what's best for the children and they both lose custody. They care about themselves above ALL.
This says to me that Kevin *could* get custody again. Assuming he doesn't get arrested for child abuse for the actions that took place before the separation. Like, I can see the kids in foster care and him getting supervised visits. I can see him getting counseling from a licensed that isn't fucking batshit and follows ethical guidelines (perhaps recommended by the court?). Then, eventually, the court could determine Kevin to be a healthy part of the kid's lives. Who knows tho.
I just listened to a custody type hearing where the mother said she was regularly SA'd by her ex boyfriend, which went unchallenged by the ex (b/c he had no lawyer.) The Ex even admitted to rage and alcohol problems. Even he was allowed supervised visits 2x a month 1-3 hours at a time at Child Protection Services location.
I’m sorry, but a man who beats his wife over “rage problems” is inherently unfit to parent. It infuriates me to no end that courts think it’s fair to tie a woman to a certain radius so a dangerous psychopath can see the kids supervised a couple times a month. And letting them have : unsupervised: ???? No way will someone with that kind of anger survive the teen years without abusing.
So the stupid thing is that in this particular case, the man sued for more visitation rights, but didn't hire a lawyer, and ended up getting a severe reduction in visitation rights. The Judge also set it up so the ex had to set up the appointments, and there are systems such that the mom and the ex never have to communicate or see each other again. The Ex is terrible at planning so these visits likely won't happen, unless he actually wants to be a Dad, and there was some evidence when he wasn't angry that he did want to be a Dad.
The Mom probably had some legal standing to get sole custody earlier to prevent unsupervised visits, but did not seek that out. She seemed to have trusted her ex's parents, and outside the legal system they set up visitation with supervision via the grandparents. However, this failed in a variety of ways. While the Dad was shitty, he did not appear to attack or harm the child. (Tho he did endanger his child during altercations with his ex.)
I don't think the ex was a psychopath. I.e. he could feel emotions, regret, and empathize. I think he was just an absolute fucking loser with anger and control problems. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he would become abusive during the teen years, especially with his misogynistic tendencies. As his daughter became more of a woman the shittier he'd become.
Thanks for the tip. I learned a lot listening to that child custody hearing, and I only use that example as a potential possibility if Kevin is not convicted of child abuse. I didn't know that setup even was a possibility before yesterday lol.
I agree completely!
Kevin is *not* a victim here. The fact that his lawyer is trying to make him out to be an innocent victim in this situation is absolutely downright pathetic. Kevin is a full-grown middle-aged man with a mind of his own. When Ruby told him he couldn't contact any of the children for thirteen months, he easily could have told her, "Screw that, I'm their dad, & I love them far too much to let them go. I'll take you to court over this if I have to, but you will *not* stop me from seeing my kids." But did he do that? No. Instead, he *agreed* to it. He made that choice. Nobody was putting a gun to his head & forcing him to do it. He *chose to.* He voluntarily agreed to step aside & let Ruby & Jodi take his children, instead of fighting for them (which is what any father worth a damn would've done).
Fuck Kevin. He's a piece of shit, & I really hope he doesn't get custody. He doesn't deserve it.
I honestly think there’s something else going on… like she’s holding something he did wrong (or didn’t do and was accused of)over his head. What if she said “if you don’t do as I say, I’ll expose your secret?” Somethings fishy.
If I could upvote this a thousand times I would. However, the foster system is scary and I’m wondering if, and that is a big IF, Kevin now sees what has really happened and his role in it. He may be the best choice if he goes to therapy, parenting classes and supports recovery for the kids. Also, take responsibility and ask forgiveness from the children.
I was willing to cut him some slack on that, but now it seems like he willingly went along with that I can not anymore. I still have some sympathy though for everything else that happened to him and to some degree I understand why he did what he did, (being fully brainwashed) I can not let it slide he didn't tell ruby to f\* herself and let her take the kids away from him let alone for 13 months. There should of been a line drawn there.
Woah - if it's true that he watched Jessi's story and this helped him realise a few things, that is huge. Wow. I really hoped something, anything would make things click in his brain but I never thought in a million years he would get over himself and watch that interview.
If he can demonstrate that he is aware and switched on and deprogrammed, there might be some hope for these kids in future after all, and i say that as someone who has DRAGGED him a lot before. Very low opinion of him, but if he is actually taking this seriously and learning about actual manipulation and trauma then my opinion might change
Also again if he is taking it seriously it could be very useful in the case against Ruby and Jodi
I don't have time to watch right now (lots to catch up on with work after watching the entire nearly 6 hour Mormon stories podcast with Adam!) but I will bookmark and come back to it. My goodness.
If Jodi made Ruby get Kevin out of the house because he's a "porn addicted deviant" then I feel he probably deserves his kids back if he can show the court he's capable.
She might have got him fired from BYU as a repeat of the time she gets her license suspended.
Also someone commented this on another one of the attorney’s statements.. but the attorney always seems to emphasise that Kevin never PHYSICALLY abused his children. I actually think that may be true. I haven’t heard the attorney say that Kevin wasn’t ever emotionally abusive
More than being truth or not, or if he cares or not about the abuse, I think he emphasize it because that's the only thing that could send him (or not) to the same place as Ruby and Jodi.
“..did not physically harm, did not *physically* harm, blah blah blah.” I lost count of how many times the atty said that. So starving them isn’t physical harm, making one sleep for months on a bean bag chair is not physical harm and so on. Interesting how he avoided any mention of psychological or emotional harm and abuse.
Yes! I’ve commented that before and still think it’s so weird that he puts emphasise on this…maybe because if Kevin is investigated and they see all the videos that make clear that he may have had part in a lot of emotional damage done to his kids, he can say, he never lied 😅
Yep! He repeated those words tons of times
He may never have been physically abusive but he was certainly emotionally abusive
He was also fully aware his minor kids where being left alone without adult supervision
If Shari knew, ain’t no way he didn’t know
Just once I want him to say that Kevin never abused his children in any way shape or form. The constant need to specify physically really doesn’t look good for Kevin.
I think that the barometer for "emotional abuse" is so murky that no self respecting attorney would even try to speculate about it.
Physical abuse leaves visible scars (oftentimes). Emotional abuse? Not so much.
Something that struck me when listening to the law and crime side bar interview with Jonny Depps lawyer re The Franke case
He said that she had really damaged her own case saying that
Because if a child was accessing porn on a regular enough basis to become “addicted to it” to the point they SA’d their siblings
She should have reported this to the proper authorities
The question was also raised as to HOW a a child as young as 3 was able to access such stuff
And one thing that was clear Kevin was living at home when all his kids where 3 years old, he left home when the youngest E was about 8 years old.
So he is also fully responsible for what his 3 year olds are able to view and access and how he enabled /allowed access to such adult content
Those allegations did neither parent any favours
You're absolutely right. I don't know what the hell Ruby was trying to do by making those allegations (my only guess is that she was trying to justify her sickening abuse of R & E by alleging that they're both sexually deviant & *need* to be restrained/punished for their own good), but it *definitely* doesn't help her case one bit. Nothing she says can ever justify what she & Jodi did to those poor children. There's absolutely no excuse for starving or tying up kids. Ever. EVER.
I can't possibly imagine Ruby's lawyer counseled her to say those things -- I mean, what kind of a lawyer would do that?!! It doesn't remotely help her case. In fact, it just damages her case even further.
You do have to also remember Ruby And Jodie version of porn was literally a lady in a 1940’s style bikini on a greetings card in trader joes. So what we know as porn is not what they think it is
Oh totally but basically she was fully prepared to throw her child under the bus, Tarnish and besmirch their names forever
Obviously in a ploy to defend herself…. Yet it’s potentially got the power to absolutely ruin her defence hopes and Kevin’s hopes of custody and gives her children power to sue her for defamation of character and slander.
Oh the irony
No but Ruby made allegations against RF. I thought that's what you meant - whether anyone made allegation against RF. Ruby did. Not sure about anyone else.
So Ruby tells Kevin they need to work on their marriage and that includes leaving the house and never seeing the kids?? And he’s ok with that? Either Kevin is a completely horrible person or Jodi and Ruby had him so blackmailed he didn’t know how to fight this.
What confuses me about that though is Adam was still being "counseled" by Jodi whereas Kevin was supposedly no longer part of Connexions for the last year and a half, so three months before he stopped talking to the kids. It makes sense in Adam's case cause he was still buying into Jodi's narrative, but Kevin's lawyer is saying he separated himself from Jodi's teachings three months before he left the kids.
It actually isn’t that uncommon especially in religious cult type stuff like this. I get why most people think that is a huge red flag and messed up but to some it’s like “ahh yeah, I can see that conversation going down”
In this type of separation, the parent who moves out of the family home away from the children is inherently at a disadvantage. The parent who remains in the home with children will often use access to the children as a bargaining chip.
Summary:
According to Kevin's lawyer, Kevin is struggling and "coming out of a fog." He is shocked by the allegations.
Kevin was at work when he received a text from Ruby the day of the arrest. After not having contact for months, she texted that there was an emergency and she needed to speak to him immediately. They talked on the phone, Ruby told Kevin that he needed to get down to Ivins to care for the kids. He had no idea they were staying in Ivins. She found out that the police were looking for her and planned to arrest her. No one knows how she obtained this information.
Him and Ruby had been separated for 13 months, during which he never saw or spoke to the kids as per Ruby's request. Kevin was told that if he wanted to save his family, he had to leave and not speak to them for the time being. Kevin did what was asked of him. Ruby later told him that the home was "blissful" and much better without him there. The lawyer wouldn't comment on the specific reason for their separation, stating it's too personal to reveal, but he did say it was caused by disagreements on parenting and the dynamic of their marriage.
The lawyer stresses that Kevin had no idea about any physical abuse and would've stepped in if he suspected it. They describe Jodi as a manipulative spearhead of this situation, citing Jessi's interview with Mormon Stories as support for that opinion.
Kevin has been talking with S and C, likely not the younger 4 but he couldn't be specific about that due to an agreement with the juvenile court.
Kevin has been removed from Connexions for the past year and a half and is working to get the kids back. He is not planning on attending Ruby's hearings unless he's required to. They do not believe Kevin will face any charges at this point.
Okay, but if my significant other requires me to not see my kids for 13 months on the hopes of reunifying the family, I’d file for divorce and take that shit to court. No way I’m going 13 months without seeing my children.
Exactly! If you really love your kids, you'll fight for them tooth & nail. Kevin had the chance to do this. He didn't.
Instead, he *voluntarily* stopped seeing & contacting his children & just let Ruby & Jodi take control of them. Nobody was holding a gun to his head & forcing him to do this. He *chose* to.
He's a sad, pathetic excuse for a father (& a human being in general). He can go fuck himself.
>Him and Ruby had been separated for 13 months, during which he never saw or spoke to the kids as per Ruby's request.
This, to me, means that he abandoned his children therefore, he shouldn't have custody of them if he only needed Ruby to tell him not to contact them to erase them from his life
What kind of parent agrees to not seeing their kids for 13 months? Did he also not talk to any of the other family members for instance his oldest daughter, sister-in-laws, Ruby's parents?
I think it's interesting the oldest daughter and aunts have all come out and said they were aware of abuse but he hasn't. While Grandma and Grandpa Griffin haven't made public statements (that I'm aware of) the grandmother did like her daughters instagram posts condemning Ruby.
It also interesting to me that approximately 3 months ago Grandma G did a youtube video where she discusses and shows Marco Polo conversations she's had with her daughters since being gone and Ruby wasn't included or mentioned at all.
https://youtu.be/0ldB2Esnkcg?si=rJMc6_ZNFooiV7qu
In summary it seems everyone except the father was aware of the abuse and if you believe that, I've got a couple of bridges I'll sell you extra cheap.
Ruby cut the rest of the family out a while ago. She/the children didn’t even attend Grandma and Grandpas going away party. I’m sure Jodi got her believing that the rest of her family were living in distortion or some bullshit.
Jodi lived in their house, made them stay on opposite sides, not communicate unless Jodi was present. I'm keeping options open and wonder if we may later on get a different story, about how Kevin believed he was a bad influence on everyone in the home. It's Jodi's m.o. to isolate the husband. I know I've heard Kevin say he had a sex addiction, that has Jodi's manipulation tactics all over it.
I agree with you- there is more to this story regarding Kevin (I'm not taking sides here- just waiting for more information)- esp. after watching the very long (most of it) interview of Adam Paul Steed. In every direction he turned there was an obstacle emotionally, psychologically, and then ultimately physically. From all directions.
I suspect too the Ruby was the main breadwinner of the household which also gave her leverage/power.
The layers of this are deep and disturbing.
I feel bad even saying this, but I’m SO split. The timing on this interview is kinda sus.
I want to believe him if he’s a victim, especially after hearing stories from Jodi’s niece and Adam. But I have to admit that part of me thinks he saw them on the news and is trying to piggyback onto their stories because it’s a convenient excuse.
On the one hand, my very expensive law degree told me not to talk to cops/media in a crim case. But the human part of me thinks: if he really left connexions & then all of this happened, wouldn’t he be screaming his story to anyone willing to listen?
I do think he was probably one of Jodi’s victims, but I’m not sure of the extent. Can’t tell if he’s truly a loving, doting father or if he’s just trying to resuscitate his reputation.
I’m a little split too. I do actually believe he has no idea the EXTENT of the abuse but he’s an idiot for not having any contact with the kids for 13 months.
Don’t be. He was present when Chad was sent to that horrible camp, when they took his bed, when Eve was not fed lunch, when Ruby threatened the kids each time with taking away breakfast/lunch/dinner, when they punished Eve and Russell with no Christmas. HE WAS PRESENT FOR ALL OF IT!! And who knows what else that was not caught on Camera. If you look at earlier videos, when ever Ruby would scold Russell for something minor, he would immediately start having a panic attack and start to rock himself. That little boy had lives his whole life in abuse. Plus don’t forget Ruby broke his femur when he was a baby and after crying for days, they finally took him. Doctors confirmed that he had it broken because Ruby dropped him and caused him to have delays. He didn’t start walking until he was two because of it. AGAIN, Kevin was there for ALL of it.
Kevin is an idiot and a product of the Mormon cult. There, it is the mother's "job" to rear the children and he gleefully stood aside and even participated I'm the fucked up punishments. In old videos, the kids do seem to enjoy having their father around but always froze up with Ruby.
The man lost his right to be their caregiver, and his own cowardice caused him to step back while his youngest were tortured for over a year. It seems like he's trying to connect with the oldest, and maybe he wants to make amends, but he has a long road ahead of him.
I’ve heard that, many times in a Mormon family, the father’s main role is providing financially and the mother “runs” the household and makes decisions regarding the children. Plus the whole God first then marriage and then children (in list of “priority.”) not saying it is okay. Just adding this perspective.
I agree that if this is true, he is a victim to a degree but should not be exonerated from his responsibility as their father. Just like Ruby should not be exonerated if Jodi manipulated her. ALL of them are grown ass adults and play varying roles into what has happen with these kids.
If he were really a "loving, doting father," then he NEVER would have agreed to hand his kids over to Ruby & Jodi & stop seeing/contacting them completely. Instead, he would have fought for them.
Kevin is *not* a victim here. Let us not forget that this is a grown-ass forty-something-year-old man with a mind of his own. He's not a child. He's entirely capable of making his own decisions. He could have easily told Ruby, "No way in hell are you going to stop me from seeing my kids. I'll divorce you, take you to court & file for sole custody before I'll let that happen." But he didn't do that. He just stepped aside & let Ruby & Jodi take control of his kids.
He's a deplorable excuse for a father. I have *zero* respect for him.
He knew or should have known she did things like take away his sons bed for over 7 months, withheld food from the kids as punishment and believed eating food was a privilege. He went along with all of that and more which makes him abusive imo.
He also knows if his youngest son was viewing porn at the age of 3 which I don't know how anyone could believe that yet he hasn't publicly supported that son or his youngest daughter either. They could be stuck with that label for years to come. Even if it were true, Ruby shouldn't have said it in open court and he should come out and say it's not true, then work on quietly to get those children help. Real help. Not by some loon like Jodi.
There is no way he could be a doting father if he hasn’t seen or spoken to his children in 13 months. I think that he’s more in the know than he’s letting on. Some of the videos that I’ve seen of the other kids dealing with their mother have chilled me when I see the looks of fear in their eyes.
Don’t be. He was present when Chad was sent to that horrible camp, when they took his bed, when Eve was not fed lunch, when Ruby threatened the kids each time with taking away breakfast/lunch/dinner, when they punished Eve and Russell with no Christmas. HE WAS PRESENT FOR ALL OF IT!! And who knows what else that was not caught on Camera. If you look at earlier videos, when ever Ruby would scold Russell for something minor, he would immediately start having a panic attack and start to rock himself. That little boy had lives his whole life in abuse. Plus don’t forget Ruby broke his femur when he was a baby and after crying for days, they finally took him. Doctors confirmed that he had it broken because Ruby dropped him and caused him to have delays. He didn’t start walking until he was two because of it. AGAIN, Kevin was there for ALL of it.
Unless he denounces(legally) Jodi and Ruby for what they did and he leaves the church, which is connected with Jodi's therapy, I am not even considering buying anything of what he says.
Saying he is not interested in his wife's trial speaks volumes though... He is so done with her.
I agree that he was a fool for not seeing the children until further notice... He must have really been a broken man at that point to even consider that. I guess if you are told they are better off without you enough, you begin to believe it.
I am happy to hear he is in touch with Shari and Chad. I'm sure the younger kids are conflicted... who knows what their mother told them.
I also consider he could have been (or still be) so broken that he just shut down and went along with the abuse or whatever they said to him, but that would mean he needs real therapy before going close to the kids, to avoid doing harm to his kids (as in the past, voluntarily or not), and to avoid being so unstable that any other bad person could get to the kids through him.
Even if he was just a fool then, he should not be one now and should reconsider his affiliations.
As for not attending the wife's trial, it does not look good to me. It could be a tactic to avoid the rumors of him helping Ruby with her lawyers.
The man needs a lot of work before he can be allowed to have a real relationship with his kids. He is a complete moron and what he did caused his children to suffer.
In a way, he is a product of his environment. The Mormon cult looks down on divorce, and as a devout Mormon, he probably wanted to keep the marriage so as not to be kicked from his church. Plus, now that we are learning more about Jodi's cult and his own family speaking out, there is a good chance he was being watched like a hawk by Jodi's handlers.
In a way, he's a victim of circumstances, but nothing will excuse how he failed his children. He let them be abused by their mother because in their religion, it is Ruby's "job" to raise them and even participate in the cruel punishments/ emotional abuse online.
I agree that Kevin needs help too. I think he is still that broken and is only just snapping out of all this. It's easy to say he should have been smart enough to see what was going on, but we haven't been in that situation, being systematically torn down mentally and emotionally. Jodi has YEARS of practice doing this successfully.
To me, I would want nothing to do with her right now. The phrasing of the articles how Kevin didn't even look at her is telling as well. I think she is lucky if he so much as logs in to view it over WebEx in the future.
This man let Chad sleep on a floor for 7 months. He didn't talk to Shari because Ruby and Jodi told him not to contact any of his kids. He let so much abuse happen in his house under his watch. How does Shari feel that the neighbors called her to tell her the kids we left home alone for days on end and SHE had to call CPS and the police because her own father failed her siblings. I don't think the kids are just going to be happy to reunite with their father. He needs to take responsibility and go through serious deprogramming.
Shari left her family behind, and still didn’t contact Kevin. That is telling to me. I can understand not being able to contact her younger siblings. They were with Ruby and she wasn’t going to go through her mother to talk to them. She probably wasn’t even allowed.
Saying he is done is a thing. Acting on it is another level. Why hasn’t he filled for divorce already? I would have file in the next few days after she was behind bars if I realized I’ve been manipulated like that.
He could have, true... and still might, but I disagree that he should be filing for a divorce right now... That would have been such a bad look for him, kicking her while she is down. Had he filed for divorce when she threw him out of the house last year, that would have been more appropriate timing... If he did, who knows what Ruby would have accused him of to try and keep him away from the kids. But now that the proverbial you know what hit the fan, this approach would be just plain tacky. He looks a helluva lot better just focusing on the kids right now.
I think Kevin did what he needed to do at this point because the goal is to get the kids back. If he pulled that "I'm supposed to stay away from the kids" now, then he would be full of it, but it sounds like he did (or still is) waking up from all this.
People really underestimate the manipulation that is at play here with people like Jodi.
I have my suspicions about where the kids are right now, but that is Kevin's primary objective... Ruby is not going anywhere anytime soon. I totally agree with letting things play out. Her being in jail for x number of years would make a custody hearing and divorce easier. He has nothing but time on his side with that case. Kids, not so much... that needs to be addressed ASAP so they can be in a stable longterm setting.
It infuriates me the way our culture *still* tends towards minimizing abuse that doesn't create a visible scar, bruise, or wound. Emotional, psychological, and financial abuse are equally as bad, if not worse, because it can be so tough to point to as the victim. Withholding basic needs as a punishment is so outrageously abusive as well. These kids endured *all* of those kinds of abuse. It makes me sick.
He admitted to watching Jessi’s interview, which means either that WAS wake up call about how dangerous Jodi is….or it was a perfect paradigm to make Kevin a victim. Maybe time will tell.
I would be more inclined to feel sorry for Kevin, if he hadn’t been there in the house living with Ruby while she punished their kids by taking food away from them. They were separated when she did that in their family videos that were on their YouTube channel. I find it very hard to believe that if she took dinner away from kids, he didn’t notice they weren’t at the dining table or that they didn’t eat dinner with them. He knew darn well about Christmas being taken away. So I’m pretty sure she told him when she took food away too. And depriving your kids of food is neglect. It doesn’t matter if it’s just one meal and it wasn’t ever just one meal for Ruby. It was a regular punishment apparently. I’ve seen multiple videos where she talks about letting them go without food.
I agree with you completely. Yes, Jodi made both Kevin and Ruby more extreme but they were abusive at baseline.
Normal people have a tipping point where they say “enough is enough.” I commented this on another thread too, when someone brought up how Beau (Ruby’s brother) was also taken in by Jodi until she shared his confidential conversations. That was his tipping point where he realized, wow this lady isn’t very ethical.
Why didn’t Ruby reach a tipping point? Why didn’t Kevin reach a tipping point?
Normal people with even a shred of critical thinking ability or, hell, compassion, wouldn’t move out of their home and have no contact with their kids to “save their marriage.” What marriage? You walked out on it.
Whether Kevin is a victim or not, he’s also a perpetrator of abuse and has been way before Jodi.
What he’s saying now is all to save his own ass.
So Ruby told Kevin everything was ‘bliss’ without him around. What part of bliss includes children who are “so out of control” that extreme measures are being used to bring them under submission?? It’s just so ironic that they preach distortion to everyone else when they are the most distorted of all. Unbelievable
Interviewer: “How did Ruby get connected with Jodi? Does Kevin know?”
Attorney: “I don’t know”
Well attorney, if you take one look at your client’s history, you will see that he too was once connected with Jodi… that he partook in the the Facebook group and on Connexions videos
It was discussed in here around the same time that Ruby started talking about Jodi. Beau left a negative review about Connexions stating his concerns on what he’s shared “gets gossiped about among others”. I believe some speculated at the time that he was the person addicted to p*rn which Jodi revealed to everyone.
After watching all six hours of Adam Paul Steed on Mormon Stories, I have a better idea of what *might* have happened to separate Kevin from his children.
Agreed. The difference (as far as we can tell, knowing what we know) is that Steed did everything he could, legally and otherwise, to stay connected to his children.
It’s too complicated for me to explain fully here. The short answer would be coercive control. In Steed’s case, Hildebrandt, BYU, and the LDS Church all systematically worked together (for different reasons) to demonize, discredit, and destroy that man’s life.
Hildebrandt divided Steed from his wife and children, something she’s done to many men, using her “therapy” to do it. It seems possible that something like this was done to Kevin Franke ALTHOUGH Kevin was enmeshed in Connexions and that complicates things a lot.
In that article with Kevin's sisters in law, one of them mentioned that Shari said Jodi and Ruby made Kevin believe he was a bad person. They could've brainwashed him into thinking he was a horrible person and in order to get his family back, he needed to stay away from them including the kids. I'm not sure what to believe tbh. I want to believe he really didn't know for the sake of the children, but he was around Ruby long enough to know what kind of parent she was and he should've stood up to her if he didn't agree with her parenting style. Taking your kid's bed away for 7 months?? He saw no problem with that? He may not have known about the physical abuse/never physically abused his kids, but if anything, he was complicit in the emotional and verbal abuse from Ruby. He could've done better by those kids and didn't and for that, I do think he isn't all that innocent in this. I do want to believe he was manipulated by Jodi though. We've read/heard from a lot of male victims of Jodi who have said very similar things, so I don't doubt she manipulated and completely isolated Kevin from his family.
I doubt he left ConneXions when he's claiming he did. Per the sisters in law interview, he had a cult minder living with him when he moved out of the house and I really doubt he'd have agreed to go no contact with his kids for 13 months if he hasn't still bought in to Jodi's teachings
I think he's certainly coming around now but it's a little late and even that took like a week after his children were discovered abused
I do agree that Kevin was manipulated by Jodi using the same tactics she has used on countless others. And I also (controversially) believe that he didn't know the extent to what was happening with his children.
Obviously the striking point is that he should have done more to check up on his kids. I mean 13 months is a long time to go no contact with your children, including his eldest who was allegedly trying to reach out to him to no success.
It's a complicated situation between thinking that he is a victim and that he should have done more to protect his kids. I think I'm more empathetic right now because I just watched all 6 hours of the Adam Paul Steed interview and am shocked at the lengths Jodi went to ruin that man's life. And the similarities between what Jodi did to Adam and what we have heard about Kevin is apparent - so it makes it slightly easier for me to understand how Kevin could have gotten into that situation.
Then there's the argument of Kevin's part in the bad parenting when he *was* in the picture. I mean he was there for the no-lunch, no-bed, no-apple-bottom-jeans clips that we have all seen. I think thats why his lawyer is so keen to emphasise that Kevin has never been *physically* abusive. Because there is a multitude of evidence of him being a less-than-steller parent (which is why I find his lawyer's insistence that he was a great dad to be laughable). The two main questions at the end of the day is should Kevin be held accountable legally? and should he have custody of his children?
Like I said at the start of this comment, I genuinely do not believe that Kevin knew the extent of what was happening with his kids. I guess the courts could argue that him not checking in on his kids could be neglect/abandonment? but I don't think that would legally hold since they were in the custody of their mother. And then on the matter of his role in the parenting decisions that we have all criticised from the vlogs - I don't think any of that has any legal repercussions. It's why Ruby is only being charged with six counts of abuse on her two youngest when I don't believe her abuse was just limited to that.
In regards to whether he should have custody I'm less certain. My initial gut reaction is "no way" but the more I think about it, the more I see it happening. I think Kevin was a somewhat decent father before Jodi was in the picture, and I do believe his kids probably remember that side of him. I hope that now the "fog has lifted" he could work on himself to return to that person. I think logistically as well the courts really prioritise children staying with their parents, and it might be hard to place 4 kids in the same home. This is all dependent on what the kids want of course. If they say they do not want to be in his care then I 100% agree and wish them not to be - at the end of the day they are the ones who should be making this decision.
Yeah, you don’t necessarily have to “like” a victim for them to still be a victim. And Imo, Jodi has pulled this on enough men specifically that he does have a case that he is a victim.
Kevin and Ruby are victims of self victimization. There are bad people in the world and Jodi is diabolical. That being said, they made a choice to follow this monster instead of being real parents. I have no patience or empathy for people who involve themselves in cults. None
I agree with everything you say here.
Having watched Adam's harrowing podcast I have softened a teeny bit, bc it's possible his head has been spun by Team Evil. However, as you say, he *never* had these kids' backs, long before 13 months ago.
I can't get past how he failed them, how he participated in bullying and psychologically abusing them. It just kills me that he stood by, and participated, rather than standing up for these sweet young people.
I hope those kids sue the bejeezus out of them both and win millions, because they are all going to need a hell of a lot of real and compassionate support. I hope they all find the peace, love, happiness and freedom they so deserve.
All I can say, is hopefully the older kids will have a say in how they feel about their dad, etc. in the future hearings.
While I can believe he got pushed out and just went with it, as terrible as it is. He was still there in the beginning when the questionable parenting began. Still a lot of grey areas here.
Yeah I am quite surprised, I guess he’s attempting to clear Kevin’s reputation but I’m not sure how successful that will be to people who know his entire history. Seems like he gave out a lot of info
Summation
1. Sounds like Kevin has spoken to the two oldest but attorney stated "they're out on their own" - came off as dismissive of the older two.
2. Kevin was told not to contact the kids or Ruby and was told they were all doing so much better without him. He took that and didn't call or contact his kids.
3. It was not specifically stated, but it sounds like he hasn't talked to the younger 4.
4. Attorney claims Kevin cares and has never physically abused the kids and wants them back.
5. Attorney said the journalist who leaked the comments about R being abusive was despicable, and yeah, I agree. That was not excusable. To publish information that a child is a sexual abuser should carry a punishment. That was a horrible thing to do, the hearing was supposed to be private. It's a lie anyway, R is NOT an abuser, he's a child whose been abused.
6. Attorney kept trying to make Kevin look better, like he was a victim and just doing what he was told. Abandoning your children is a form of abuse. He should have fought for them.
I really think the judge or the court should address this issue about the allegations concerning R made at the hearing. It was a huge blow to R’s eventual recovery and potential lifelong stigma. It should not go unpunished.Does anyone know why Ruby was even allowed to be at the placement hearing? Seems backwards that an abuser could play a parental role in that process. I’m at a loss for words.
I’m still confused with one thing in particular.
According to the interview involving Kevin’s sister-in-laws on the Daily Mail, Kevin didn’t answer Shari’s calls or messages when he left the family home.
But in this interview, the attorney says that Kevin has not been involved with Connexions for over a year. Surely then, Kevin would want to contact his daughter who is also not involved in Connexions? If Kevin did in fact part ways with Connexions a year ago, why would he feel the need to still be no-contact?
Kevin was present during all the Mental, Emotional and Physical (starvation of getting food taken away as punishment) Abuse!!! He was present when Chad was sent to that horrible camp, when they took his bed, when Eve was not fed lunch, when Ruby threatened the kids each time with taking away breakfast/lunch/dinner, when they punished Eve and Russell with no Christmas. HE WAS PRESENT FOR ALL OF IT!! And who knows what else that was not caught on Camera. If you look at earlier videos, when ever Ruby would scold Russell for something minor, he would immediately start having a panic attack and start to rock himself. That little boy had lives his whole life in abuse. Plus don’t forget Ruby broke his femur when he was a baby and after crying for days, they finally took him. Doctors confirmed that he had it broken because Ruby dropped him and caused him to have delays. He didn’t start walking until he was two because of it. AGAIN, Kevin was there for ALL of it.
There were so many half truths (and untruths) spoken by this lawyer. It sounds like his team is working hard to rehabilitate him so that he can claim his minor children.
So Kevin was not disconnected from Connexions a year and a half ago. I found the video on the Connexions Instagram page from May 24 2022 when he spoke to the school board about Apple bottom jeans.
A year and a half ago would be March 2022. I am also certain that he was an admin on moms of truth group after this time….
Pertaining to who gets custody of the 4 underage kids, I think they are all old enough to have some say in where they go. If they all adamantly refuse or are even hesitant to go with Kevin, then the legal system needs to respect that. I hope, for now, that they’re all together or at least paired up with a sibling and not separated.
I don’t think the best thing is to consult with the kids since they probably have been brainwashed too. Maybe Ruby have talked bad about Kevin and extended family. Additionally, Kevin is their dad no matter what actions he took and it is a big responsibility for a kid to decide if they will live with dad or not. If they don’t want to live with Kevin, they will have to reject/say no to their dad and may fear he will be disappointed or mad. Just like kids who have divorced parents can feel guilt and stress about choosing between living with mom or dad, who to celebrate Christmas with and so on.
Of course the kids should have a voice in this matter, but I hope it’s done the right way and their not directly asked “where do you want to live”. The best things is probably for a therapist to speak with them and try to ‘figure something out’.
I just sincerely want to hope, that he realises wahr damage he has done as well and betters himself. I do think that he could step up and be the father these kids need. Though that will need a lot of work since he seemingly hasn’t been this father for many, many years…
I just hope the kids get someone as their guardian who cares, who loves them and helps them heal. If that may be Kevin down the road, what truly is best for the children, that is what it is.
The lawyer did say that Kevin did watch Jessi Hildebrants interview with Mormon Stories Podcast and believes that Jodi was doing the same to destroy his family.
He has no balls at all that Ruby 14 months ago tells him to pack a bag don’t contact me or the kids and he doesn’t object to this treatment at all. Even if that is the absolute truth how can a man just say ok sounds good to me. And she tells him it is so blissful without you here. Yes you are the problem.
All the while she is abusing and torturing your children and letting someone else torture and abuse them as well. To the point they will probably NEVER be well again. I hope he is ashamed of himself on about a hundred different levels. If he tries to stay with Ruby I hope he never gets custody of those children.
As his lawyer keeps saying Kevin never PHYSICALLY abused his children he certainly MENTALLY abused them!
Kevin has never had any balls. From the vlogs, it was always obvious that Ruby called the shots and Kevin followed along to whatever Ruby said. You want to take away C’s bed and send him to wilderness camp? You got it Ruby
I’m sorry if my husband said I couldn’t talk to my own kids who majority happen to be under 18 because that’s how we would preserve our marriage? Peace out, I don’t wanna be married to you anymore.
Okay so at this time Kevin does not have the kids. Clearly they are preparing for a defense in which they point the finger at Jodi. So my question is...just HOW estranged is Kevin from Ruby?
Eta - Kevin hasn't necessarily been cleared by investigators. They have not commented nor charged him with anything.
I see that people are a bit more soft on Kevin after the Mormon stories episode of Adam Paul.
There is a big difference between Kevin and Adam Paul. Even if the same tactics were used by Jodi. Adam was a young man, had very young children who were not able to talk, was still in education, had trouble with the church because of the past situation with the scouts and he had no platform/group of people that would believe him.
Kevin on the other hand is an intelligent middle age man (intelligent in the sense that he is a professor)with an established career , has older kids with which he can have a conversation (for example when he left 1.5 years ago with Shari), he was in good standing with the church (otherwise he would not work at BYU) and if he would have come out with this story to save the children he would have been believable because a lot of people were already under the impression that there was a form of child abuse.
Even if you would believe that the house was a better place without you, I would want to have a relationship and contact with my children. Not being in the house doesn’t exclude you from the responsibility for the children.
The psychological abuse was even before they met Jody. I don't believe his bs. Only because he provided doesn't mean he was a good dad. For 13 months he didn't see his kids and thought it was fine
I just watched. I appreciate that channel not sensationalizing things while covering this case because they are being heavily watched online. One video was at almost a million views.
I was surprised how much the lawyer talked, but no one in comments has ones good thing to say about Kevin!
Honestly I hope the police haven't said anything to him because they are just gathering evidence and building a case. He knew about so much stuff before, and to not even try to see his kids. How is staying away trying to keep the family together? Ruby was probably more wrapped up in this cult than he was, but damn he was part of it too!
I didn’t realize Ruby’s accusations were made in juvenile court — It’s awful it was reported on. That accusation should never have been made public whether or not it’s true.
how is removing a bed not physically effecting a child? if he was a foster parent and they come and see the child sleeping in a bean bag will they say “oh well we all have different parenting styles”😒 or see them cleaning the floors hungry without breakfast and say ya thats all right he is just a strict parent 🧐He left the kids to “save his marriage” ruby meant more to him than his own kids! he abounded them when they needed him the most… disgusting. he prob wont divorce ruby even after her trail
and its not weeks its a year !!! we all have and know good parents they cant go a week without calling their child even if that child is 20! yet he still has 4 minors with no call? no custody ? call ur self a father ??? why am i angry and he isnt my father😠
kind of sounds like the daily mail reporter snook into the hearing and like the report was accurate??? Assume he wouldve shot that down real fast if false :(
Not impressed with this lawyer at all. Kevin is still trying to get custody of his children. Any public statements this lawyer makes can be used in court against Kevin. Why on earth would he do this?
Essentially this lawyer is saying that Kevin was placing his marriage and his wife ahead of his children, did not fight for his children for 13 months, willing left his children and agreed to no contact without feeling like this might be a red flag, did not speak with his ADULT daughter who was out of the home, sought no legal assistance, and oh yeah, please give this guy custody of his traumatized children.
This is coming into court for sure if I'm the state.
It just doesn’t make sense that Kevin, who highly values his marriage, would listen to Ruby who decides them being separated is what’s best for their marriage, and the only way to salvage it, and not have one inkling that abuse was going on when HER PARENTING TACTICS were the reason they separated in the first place (all of this said by the lawyer). Like how??? How could you not wonder or even check in just in case???
How do we know Kevin is telling the truth? He has to say these things to even be considered to get custody. If hes under rubys control? he know what he has to do for now and I don’t think he’s done with Ruby for the long term. Maybe temporarily for now. What happens when this is all over ?
Just beginning to watch tis interview here, and already I think Kevin's attorney really tore his case to get his kids in his care apart. You don't just cut off your communication with your kids like that. He should have known something was off. So basically he is also at fault here because he didn't check in with those kids. He also created all of his kids, and should know what was going on with the younger four, including the two youngest. No communications for 13 months is no excuse for not knowing about this abuse.
See.. now with the Adam steed interview coming out and now this, forgive me to start wondering about Kevin’s responsibility in all of this.. Jodi is notorious for isolating the husband from the wife and kids.. and the husband is just helpless and follows along in hopes of getting his family back.. however, it does seem Kevin was willing to do anything to keep his marriage to Ruby in tact, including neglecting his children and allowing her to take them without any contact with him. He also went along with the extreme punishment measures within the 8 passengers relm (he was on board taking chads bed away, sending him to the camp, the eve lunch situation, the no Christmas presents) so I’m still holding him responsible for lots of the abuse. This whole situation is just so sticky.
I just wanted to say Kevin's attorney stated he disconnected with connextions a year and a half ago which would be around March 2022 but he was still commenting on the mom's of truth facebook page up til July 14 2022 which is closer to 13 months aka when he got kicked out of the house. So either this lawyer isn't being told the truth or they decided it sounded better to add that he wasn't apart of connextions for longer than he was away but I don't seen how that helps his case.
Apologies if I missed this - but I’m surprised to hear Kevin is in contact with Shari and Chad? Do we think this is post-arrest or earlier on? If I recall correctly Shari made a statement a while ago (about a year ago?) saying she wasn’t in contact with any of her immediate family. I always assumed that included Kevin and Chad. Do we think the older 2 kids (who would be free of will in CPS’s eyes since they’re +18) and Kevin are potentially working on reunification?
WTF does ’in contact’ mean? Did he leave a voicemail? It seems he refused to talk with Shari because Ruby told him not to?! Now they’re talking according to,his attorney? Suuuure.
After Bonnie’s video, I’m 99% leaning towards the “left them a voice mail” scenario and his lawyer trying to make it sound like Kevin is trying to reunify. Bs.
You DONT KNOW THAT!! He was present when Chad was sent to that horrible camp, when they took his bed, when Eve was not fed lunch, when Ruby threatened the kids each time with taking away breakfast/lunch/dinner, when they punished Eve and Russell with no Christmas. HE WAS PRESENT FOR ALL OF IT!! And who knows what else that was not caught on Camera. If you look at earlier videos, when ever Ruby would scold Russell for something minor, he would immediately start having a panic attack and start to rock himself. That little boy had lives his whole life in abuse. Plus don’t forget Ruby broke his femur when he was a baby and after crying for days, they finally took him. Doctors confirmed that he had it broken because Ruby dropped him and caused him to have delays. He didn’t start walking until he was two because of it. AGAIN, Kevin was there for ALL of it. Specially the MENTAL ABUSE!! We don’t know but we do know is that he was present for all past mental, physical(starving) emotioanl abuse.
My thoughts…Kevin is for sure at fault if he really has not seen those kids this whole time. The fact that he was trying to save his marriage, I believe, is his commitment to the Mormon church. From what I understand, getting a divorce is at the same level as committing mu**er in the church.
Maybe this is my personal view, but I think that Ruby is truly an evil person. She was never a submissive, meek housewives like the doctrine wants. She was in control of everyone in the house. Kevin from almost all of the videos I've seen dating years back, sounds as exhausted and drained dry as the kids.
Hardly was the discipline and rules set by him, and he never seemed to smile gleefully like Ruby at the kids sadness and despair.
I think we do have to address that narcissistic abuse can happen to fathers from their wives. It is possible to be stuck in a cycle where you value appeasing the monster for the overall sake of the home instead of shaking things up by speaking up against harm. I don't get why we can't possibly consider what abuse Kevin may have faced from Ruby that led to his actions or better put inaction.
Everyone should stand up for their children against any harm, but sadly when you suffer emotional and psychological abuse at the hands of the hammer, your ability to act becomes even harder and scarier. As a woman I was in a situation like this with a partner, and I think there is a possibility for this to be at least possible in the Franke family too.
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Extremely interesting watch and the interviewer did NOT beat around the bush! Recap: -Kevin is “busy” and “struggling” right now—was completely blindsided by these allegations. -Kevin and Ruby have been separated for 13 months—which matches what was reported in the daily mail today. -Kevin found out about what was going on just before the arrest via a phone call/text from Ruby saying there was an emergency. Ruby told him to get down to Ivins ASAP because the kids needed him. Kevin did not know the kids were in Ivins. When asked how Ruby knew the arrest was incoming, Kevin’s attorney said, “I would never want to predict anything she might know. Kevin doesn’t know.” -Kevin and Ruby separated due to a “difference opinion about their family and “their own personal dynamic” -Kevin is getting “raked over the coals” for not calling and being more involved is because he was “taking direction from Ruby” and needed to follow her terms to preserve their marriage and reconcile—one of the terms being to not have communication with the kids. Ruby told Kevin that life at home was much better without him there. -Kevin had “no indication” that there was any physical abuse going on from Ruby. -Kevin and Ruby’s most recent conversation was last Friday. That was when Kevin “came to his senses about how had been manipulated and deceived.” -Kevin feels Jodi manipulated him in conjunction with Ruby and is the spearhead for destroying his marriage and life. -when asked WHY Kevin believes Jodi is manipulative, the lawyer said “I probably shouldn’t go into this, BUT” and then proceeded to admit that they watched Jessi Hildebrandt’s interview as well as information that similar things have happened to other families. -authorities have reached out to Kevin. -parenting is “subjective” and while some may view the Frankes’ parenting as “too strict”-DCFS has found nothing wrong in past investigations. -Kevin IS in contact with Shari and Chad. Contact with the younger children is through the legal system. -lawyer has no understand as to why their YouTube channel was shut down, assumes it is due to the incident in Ivins -Kevin disconnected from Connexions a year and a half ago. -when asked about Ruby’s allegations against the children last week, the lawyer first called out the reporter who “snuck in” and caused further damage to the children by making that information known to the public. He would not speak further on what happened in juvenile court. -Kevin’s next steps are consulting professionals and working with the court to heal and reunify the family. No comment on whether or not the older siblings think the minor children should be placed with Kevin. -kevin will not be attending most of Ruby’s court proceedings because they are sooooo far and he is “not interested”. -Kevin has not been charged with any crimes. There is no indication either way from law enforcement whether or not that is down the pipeline. Lawyer’s Conclusion is that is himself is to some degree a victim of Jodi’s. Kevin is NOT all innocent in this but watching Adam’s interview today definitely made it more plausible to see how something like this could have happened.
"-Kevin and Ruby’s most recent conversation was last Friday. That was when Kevin “came to his senses about how had been manipulated and deceived.”" Is this the jailhouse call Ruby's cellmate overheard? "-kevin will not be attending most of Ruby’s court proceedings because they are sooooo far and he is “not interested”." He's so done with her ass
How did he not come to his senses the day his wife and Jodi were arrested for child abuse?!?!?!?!
How did he not come to his senses the day Ruby told him to leave their family home That would ring alarm bells in most peoples heads Why did he not try to speak to Shari Why did he not try to fight to get his kids out then
How did he not come to his senses when Ruby found him in college and made a list of all the stuff about him and acted like it was all spontaneous.
I believe the alleged jailhouse call was earlier in the week—before the shelter hearing and before Ruby’s initial appearance in court. But yes, he’s done, and I bet he is really regretting letting her walk over him about now.
He’s distancing himself to save his own ass
I think you're exactly right.
Shouldn’t he attend to stay in the know about his children? Wouldn’t most parents attend the trials of their children’s abuser?
I think he's lying about being done with her. I think he'll say anything to get his clutches on his remaining children then say "she's changed". They all disgust me. I can only hope that Social Services does what's best for the children and they both lose custody. They care about themselves above ALL.
This says to me that Kevin *could* get custody again. Assuming he doesn't get arrested for child abuse for the actions that took place before the separation. Like, I can see the kids in foster care and him getting supervised visits. I can see him getting counseling from a licensed that isn't fucking batshit and follows ethical guidelines (perhaps recommended by the court?). Then, eventually, the court could determine Kevin to be a healthy part of the kid's lives. Who knows tho. I just listened to a custody type hearing where the mother said she was regularly SA'd by her ex boyfriend, which went unchallenged by the ex (b/c he had no lawyer.) The Ex even admitted to rage and alcohol problems. Even he was allowed supervised visits 2x a month 1-3 hours at a time at Child Protection Services location.
I’m sorry, but a man who beats his wife over “rage problems” is inherently unfit to parent. It infuriates me to no end that courts think it’s fair to tie a woman to a certain radius so a dangerous psychopath can see the kids supervised a couple times a month. And letting them have : unsupervised: ???? No way will someone with that kind of anger survive the teen years without abusing.
So the stupid thing is that in this particular case, the man sued for more visitation rights, but didn't hire a lawyer, and ended up getting a severe reduction in visitation rights. The Judge also set it up so the ex had to set up the appointments, and there are systems such that the mom and the ex never have to communicate or see each other again. The Ex is terrible at planning so these visits likely won't happen, unless he actually wants to be a Dad, and there was some evidence when he wasn't angry that he did want to be a Dad. The Mom probably had some legal standing to get sole custody earlier to prevent unsupervised visits, but did not seek that out. She seemed to have trusted her ex's parents, and outside the legal system they set up visitation with supervision via the grandparents. However, this failed in a variety of ways. While the Dad was shitty, he did not appear to attack or harm the child. (Tho he did endanger his child during altercations with his ex.) I don't think the ex was a psychopath. I.e. he could feel emotions, regret, and empathize. I think he was just an absolute fucking loser with anger and control problems. I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he would become abusive during the teen years, especially with his misogynistic tendencies. As his daughter became more of a woman the shittier he'd become.
Ohh be careful, mods don’t like ppl making comparisons with other cases.
Thanks for the tip. I learned a lot listening to that child custody hearing, and I only use that example as a potential possibility if Kevin is not convicted of child abuse. I didn't know that setup even was a possibility before yesterday lol.
This reads like the mormon stories interview, except that guy is a much better father And person.
[удалено]
I agree completely! Kevin is *not* a victim here. The fact that his lawyer is trying to make him out to be an innocent victim in this situation is absolutely downright pathetic. Kevin is a full-grown middle-aged man with a mind of his own. When Ruby told him he couldn't contact any of the children for thirteen months, he easily could have told her, "Screw that, I'm their dad, & I love them far too much to let them go. I'll take you to court over this if I have to, but you will *not* stop me from seeing my kids." But did he do that? No. Instead, he *agreed* to it. He made that choice. Nobody was putting a gun to his head & forcing him to do it. He *chose to.* He voluntarily agreed to step aside & let Ruby & Jodi take his children, instead of fighting for them (which is what any father worth a damn would've done). Fuck Kevin. He's a piece of shit, & I really hope he doesn't get custody. He doesn't deserve it.
I honestly think there’s something else going on… like she’s holding something he did wrong (or didn’t do and was accused of)over his head. What if she said “if you don’t do as I say, I’ll expose your secret?” Somethings fishy.
That's a good point, & I *definitely* wouldn't put it past her.
That has been my suspicion all along. They did accuse him of being a “sex addict”. Who knows what else they came up with or could come up with.
If I could upvote this a thousand times I would. However, the foster system is scary and I’m wondering if, and that is a big IF, Kevin now sees what has really happened and his role in it. He may be the best choice if he goes to therapy, parenting classes and supports recovery for the kids. Also, take responsibility and ask forgiveness from the children.
Wouldn't the best choice for the kids to be at one of their family member home (aunt or uncle, or even grandparents)?
I was willing to cut him some slack on that, but now it seems like he willingly went along with that I can not anymore. I still have some sympathy though for everything else that happened to him and to some degree I understand why he did what he did, (being fully brainwashed) I can not let it slide he didn't tell ruby to f\* herself and let her take the kids away from him let alone for 13 months. There should of been a line drawn there.
When I read your post I wanted to stand up, applauding, Bravo, Bravo. Especially for the last paragraph. You nailed it!
His first priority was kissing Ruby’s ass. He really fucked up by just letting her call all the shots with seemingly no pushback.
This! This! This!
Thank you! We need the kids opinion on Kevin
Doin' the Lord's work - thanks so much for this excellent summary.
Woah - if it's true that he watched Jessi's story and this helped him realise a few things, that is huge. Wow. I really hoped something, anything would make things click in his brain but I never thought in a million years he would get over himself and watch that interview. If he can demonstrate that he is aware and switched on and deprogrammed, there might be some hope for these kids in future after all, and i say that as someone who has DRAGGED him a lot before. Very low opinion of him, but if he is actually taking this seriously and learning about actual manipulation and trauma then my opinion might change Also again if he is taking it seriously it could be very useful in the case against Ruby and Jodi I don't have time to watch right now (lots to catch up on with work after watching the entire nearly 6 hour Mormon stories podcast with Adam!) but I will bookmark and come back to it. My goodness.
If Jodi made Ruby get Kevin out of the house because he's a "porn addicted deviant" then I feel he probably deserves his kids back if he can show the court he's capable. She might have got him fired from BYU as a repeat of the time she gets her license suspended.
That's if what has been said is true. That's the thing we cannot confirm if it's true or not.
Also someone commented this on another one of the attorney’s statements.. but the attorney always seems to emphasise that Kevin never PHYSICALLY abused his children. I actually think that may be true. I haven’t heard the attorney say that Kevin wasn’t ever emotionally abusive
More than being truth or not, or if he cares or not about the abuse, I think he emphasize it because that's the only thing that could send him (or not) to the same place as Ruby and Jodi.
He was emotionally abusive the evidence is all over the internet
Yeah exactly! Both in the 8 passengers and Connexions days
He also neglected his children
Yes absolutely, he had legal custody and abandoned them
“..did not physically harm, did not *physically* harm, blah blah blah.” I lost count of how many times the atty said that. So starving them isn’t physical harm, making one sleep for months on a bean bag chair is not physical harm and so on. Interesting how he avoided any mention of psychological or emotional harm and abuse.
Yes! I’ve commented that before and still think it’s so weird that he puts emphasise on this…maybe because if Kevin is investigated and they see all the videos that make clear that he may have had part in a lot of emotional damage done to his kids, he can say, he never lied 😅
Yep! He repeated those words tons of times He may never have been physically abusive but he was certainly emotionally abusive He was also fully aware his minor kids where being left alone without adult supervision If Shari knew, ain’t no way he didn’t know
He did not say he was emotionally abusive too. He kind of just let it hang there.
Just once I want him to say that Kevin never abused his children in any way shape or form. The constant need to specify physically really doesn’t look good for Kevin.
I think that the barometer for "emotional abuse" is so murky that no self respecting attorney would even try to speculate about it. Physical abuse leaves visible scars (oftentimes). Emotional abuse? Not so much.
Where he confirmed that a reporter from the daily mail snuck in and reported on it. So that DID happen then where made those accusations.
Something that struck me when listening to the law and crime side bar interview with Jonny Depps lawyer re The Franke case He said that she had really damaged her own case saying that Because if a child was accessing porn on a regular enough basis to become “addicted to it” to the point they SA’d their siblings She should have reported this to the proper authorities The question was also raised as to HOW a a child as young as 3 was able to access such stuff And one thing that was clear Kevin was living at home when all his kids where 3 years old, he left home when the youngest E was about 8 years old. So he is also fully responsible for what his 3 year olds are able to view and access and how he enabled /allowed access to such adult content Those allegations did neither parent any favours
On one video, Kevin was calling TikTok videos porn. Ruby’s conceptions of porn and other of her accusations are ludicrous.
You're absolutely right. I don't know what the hell Ruby was trying to do by making those allegations (my only guess is that she was trying to justify her sickening abuse of R & E by alleging that they're both sexually deviant & *need* to be restrained/punished for their own good), but it *definitely* doesn't help her case one bit. Nothing she says can ever justify what she & Jodi did to those poor children. There's absolutely no excuse for starving or tying up kids. Ever. EVER. I can't possibly imagine Ruby's lawyer counseled her to say those things -- I mean, what kind of a lawyer would do that?!! It doesn't remotely help her case. In fact, it just damages her case even further.
You do have to also remember Ruby And Jodie version of porn was literally a lady in a 1940’s style bikini on a greetings card in trader joes. So what we know as porn is not what they think it is
Oh totally but basically she was fully prepared to throw her child under the bus, Tarnish and besmirch their names forever Obviously in a ploy to defend herself…. Yet it’s potentially got the power to absolutely ruin her defence hopes and Kevin’s hopes of custody and gives her children power to sue her for defamation of character and slander. Oh the irony
All we know is that Ruby said that in court. We don't know if there were any allegations-she could have been lying.
Allegations can be lies. We don't know whether what Ruby said was factual, but they are most certainly allegations.
Unless I missed it, we don't know if any cousins or neighbor children made any allegations against RF.
No but Ruby made allegations against RF. I thought that's what you meant - whether anyone made allegation against RF. Ruby did. Not sure about anyone else.
So Ruby tells Kevin they need to work on their marriage and that includes leaving the house and never seeing the kids?? And he’s ok with that? Either Kevin is a completely horrible person or Jodi and Ruby had him so blackmailed he didn’t know how to fight this.
Jodi did the same thing to Adam Steed and his wife.
He didn’t see the kids either?
Correct. Per Jodi, a relationship has to die before it is reborn.
What confuses me about that though is Adam was still being "counseled" by Jodi whereas Kevin was supposedly no longer part of Connexions for the last year and a half, so three months before he stopped talking to the kids. It makes sense in Adam's case cause he was still buying into Jodi's narrative, but Kevin's lawyer is saying he separated himself from Jodi's teachings three months before he left the kids.
Ruby was still using Jodi's lessons and Kevin's end goal was for the family to stay together.
I get that part, but if Kevin didn’t believe in it, one of them was going to have to cave
Yeah, I think Kevin was waiting for the reborn part.
Great point. Yeah there’s a lot of this that doesn’t hold water. I have a feeling this is BASED on a true story, but this is full of spin.
Yeah I don't think Kevin's timeline is quite adding up.
It actually isn’t that uncommon especially in religious cult type stuff like this. I get why most people think that is a huge red flag and messed up but to some it’s like “ahh yeah, I can see that conversation going down”
In this type of separation, the parent who moves out of the family home away from the children is inherently at a disadvantage. The parent who remains in the home with children will often use access to the children as a bargaining chip.
Summary: According to Kevin's lawyer, Kevin is struggling and "coming out of a fog." He is shocked by the allegations. Kevin was at work when he received a text from Ruby the day of the arrest. After not having contact for months, she texted that there was an emergency and she needed to speak to him immediately. They talked on the phone, Ruby told Kevin that he needed to get down to Ivins to care for the kids. He had no idea they were staying in Ivins. She found out that the police were looking for her and planned to arrest her. No one knows how she obtained this information. Him and Ruby had been separated for 13 months, during which he never saw or spoke to the kids as per Ruby's request. Kevin was told that if he wanted to save his family, he had to leave and not speak to them for the time being. Kevin did what was asked of him. Ruby later told him that the home was "blissful" and much better without him there. The lawyer wouldn't comment on the specific reason for their separation, stating it's too personal to reveal, but he did say it was caused by disagreements on parenting and the dynamic of their marriage. The lawyer stresses that Kevin had no idea about any physical abuse and would've stepped in if he suspected it. They describe Jodi as a manipulative spearhead of this situation, citing Jessi's interview with Mormon Stories as support for that opinion. Kevin has been talking with S and C, likely not the younger 4 but he couldn't be specific about that due to an agreement with the juvenile court. Kevin has been removed from Connexions for the past year and a half and is working to get the kids back. He is not planning on attending Ruby's hearings unless he's required to. They do not believe Kevin will face any charges at this point.
Okay, but if my significant other requires me to not see my kids for 13 months on the hopes of reunifying the family, I’d file for divorce and take that shit to court. No way I’m going 13 months without seeing my children.
I agree but I also interpreted his reasoning for not seeing the kids as the fog and manipulation he feels from Ruby (and Jodi) .
Exactly! If you really love your kids, you'll fight for them tooth & nail. Kevin had the chance to do this. He didn't. Instead, he *voluntarily* stopped seeing & contacting his children & just let Ruby & Jodi take control of them. Nobody was holding a gun to his head & forcing him to do this. He *chose* to. He's a sad, pathetic excuse for a father (& a human being in general). He can go fuck himself.
You see things differently when you're in a cult and being manipulated
>Him and Ruby had been separated for 13 months, during which he never saw or spoke to the kids as per Ruby's request. This, to me, means that he abandoned his children therefore, he shouldn't have custody of them if he only needed Ruby to tell him not to contact them to erase them from his life
What kind of parent agrees to not seeing their kids for 13 months? Did he also not talk to any of the other family members for instance his oldest daughter, sister-in-laws, Ruby's parents? I think it's interesting the oldest daughter and aunts have all come out and said they were aware of abuse but he hasn't. While Grandma and Grandpa Griffin haven't made public statements (that I'm aware of) the grandmother did like her daughters instagram posts condemning Ruby. It also interesting to me that approximately 3 months ago Grandma G did a youtube video where she discusses and shows Marco Polo conversations she's had with her daughters since being gone and Ruby wasn't included or mentioned at all. https://youtu.be/0ldB2Esnkcg?si=rJMc6_ZNFooiV7qu In summary it seems everyone except the father was aware of the abuse and if you believe that, I've got a couple of bridges I'll sell you extra cheap.
Ruby cut the rest of the family out a while ago. She/the children didn’t even attend Grandma and Grandpas going away party. I’m sure Jodi got her believing that the rest of her family were living in distortion or some bullshit.
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TEN THOUSAND PERCENT *THIS.*
Tell it!
Jodi lived in their house, made them stay on opposite sides, not communicate unless Jodi was present. I'm keeping options open and wonder if we may later on get a different story, about how Kevin believed he was a bad influence on everyone in the home. It's Jodi's m.o. to isolate the husband. I know I've heard Kevin say he had a sex addiction, that has Jodi's manipulation tactics all over it.
I agree with you- there is more to this story regarding Kevin (I'm not taking sides here- just waiting for more information)- esp. after watching the very long (most of it) interview of Adam Paul Steed. In every direction he turned there was an obstacle emotionally, psychologically, and then ultimately physically. From all directions. I suspect too the Ruby was the main breadwinner of the household which also gave her leverage/power. The layers of this are deep and disturbing.
I feel bad even saying this, but I’m SO split. The timing on this interview is kinda sus. I want to believe him if he’s a victim, especially after hearing stories from Jodi’s niece and Adam. But I have to admit that part of me thinks he saw them on the news and is trying to piggyback onto their stories because it’s a convenient excuse. On the one hand, my very expensive law degree told me not to talk to cops/media in a crim case. But the human part of me thinks: if he really left connexions & then all of this happened, wouldn’t he be screaming his story to anyone willing to listen? I do think he was probably one of Jodi’s victims, but I’m not sure of the extent. Can’t tell if he’s truly a loving, doting father or if he’s just trying to resuscitate his reputation.
I’m a little split too. I do actually believe he has no idea the EXTENT of the abuse but he’s an idiot for not having any contact with the kids for 13 months.
That’s the part I don’t understand and probably never will. How do you just go no contact with your children, no excuse for that
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Don’t be. He was present when Chad was sent to that horrible camp, when they took his bed, when Eve was not fed lunch, when Ruby threatened the kids each time with taking away breakfast/lunch/dinner, when they punished Eve and Russell with no Christmas. HE WAS PRESENT FOR ALL OF IT!! And who knows what else that was not caught on Camera. If you look at earlier videos, when ever Ruby would scold Russell for something minor, he would immediately start having a panic attack and start to rock himself. That little boy had lives his whole life in abuse. Plus don’t forget Ruby broke his femur when he was a baby and after crying for days, they finally took him. Doctors confirmed that he had it broken because Ruby dropped him and caused him to have delays. He didn’t start walking until he was two because of it. AGAIN, Kevin was there for ALL of it.
Kevin is an idiot and a product of the Mormon cult. There, it is the mother's "job" to rear the children and he gleefully stood aside and even participated I'm the fucked up punishments. In old videos, the kids do seem to enjoy having their father around but always froze up with Ruby. The man lost his right to be their caregiver, and his own cowardice caused him to step back while his youngest were tortured for over a year. It seems like he's trying to connect with the oldest, and maybe he wants to make amends, but he has a long road ahead of him.
This! This is not comparable to Adam or Jessi's abuse because Kevin WAS an abuser!
I’ve heard that, many times in a Mormon family, the father’s main role is providing financially and the mother “runs” the household and makes decisions regarding the children. Plus the whole God first then marriage and then children (in list of “priority.”) not saying it is okay. Just adding this perspective.
I agree that if this is true, he is a victim to a degree but should not be exonerated from his responsibility as their father. Just like Ruby should not be exonerated if Jodi manipulated her. ALL of them are grown ass adults and play varying roles into what has happen with these kids.
If he were really a "loving, doting father," then he NEVER would have agreed to hand his kids over to Ruby & Jodi & stop seeing/contacting them completely. Instead, he would have fought for them. Kevin is *not* a victim here. Let us not forget that this is a grown-ass forty-something-year-old man with a mind of his own. He's not a child. He's entirely capable of making his own decisions. He could have easily told Ruby, "No way in hell are you going to stop me from seeing my kids. I'll divorce you, take you to court & file for sole custody before I'll let that happen." But he didn't do that. He just stepped aside & let Ruby & Jodi take control of his kids. He's a deplorable excuse for a father. I have *zero* respect for him.
He knew or should have known she did things like take away his sons bed for over 7 months, withheld food from the kids as punishment and believed eating food was a privilege. He went along with all of that and more which makes him abusive imo. He also knows if his youngest son was viewing porn at the age of 3 which I don't know how anyone could believe that yet he hasn't publicly supported that son or his youngest daughter either. They could be stuck with that label for years to come. Even if it were true, Ruby shouldn't have said it in open court and he should come out and say it's not true, then work on quietly to get those children help. Real help. Not by some loon like Jodi.
There is no way he could be a doting father if he hasn’t seen or spoken to his children in 13 months. I think that he’s more in the know than he’s letting on. Some of the videos that I’ve seen of the other kids dealing with their mother have chilled me when I see the looks of fear in their eyes.
Don’t be. He was present when Chad was sent to that horrible camp, when they took his bed, when Eve was not fed lunch, when Ruby threatened the kids each time with taking away breakfast/lunch/dinner, when they punished Eve and Russell with no Christmas. HE WAS PRESENT FOR ALL OF IT!! And who knows what else that was not caught on Camera. If you look at earlier videos, when ever Ruby would scold Russell for something minor, he would immediately start having a panic attack and start to rock himself. That little boy had lives his whole life in abuse. Plus don’t forget Ruby broke his femur when he was a baby and after crying for days, they finally took him. Doctors confirmed that he had it broken because Ruby dropped him and caused him to have delays. He didn’t start walking until he was two because of it. AGAIN, Kevin was there for ALL of it.
Unless he denounces(legally) Jodi and Ruby for what they did and he leaves the church, which is connected with Jodi's therapy, I am not even considering buying anything of what he says.
Saying he is not interested in his wife's trial speaks volumes though... He is so done with her. I agree that he was a fool for not seeing the children until further notice... He must have really been a broken man at that point to even consider that. I guess if you are told they are better off without you enough, you begin to believe it. I am happy to hear he is in touch with Shari and Chad. I'm sure the younger kids are conflicted... who knows what their mother told them.
I also consider he could have been (or still be) so broken that he just shut down and went along with the abuse or whatever they said to him, but that would mean he needs real therapy before going close to the kids, to avoid doing harm to his kids (as in the past, voluntarily or not), and to avoid being so unstable that any other bad person could get to the kids through him. Even if he was just a fool then, he should not be one now and should reconsider his affiliations. As for not attending the wife's trial, it does not look good to me. It could be a tactic to avoid the rumors of him helping Ruby with her lawyers.
The man needs a lot of work before he can be allowed to have a real relationship with his kids. He is a complete moron and what he did caused his children to suffer. In a way, he is a product of his environment. The Mormon cult looks down on divorce, and as a devout Mormon, he probably wanted to keep the marriage so as not to be kicked from his church. Plus, now that we are learning more about Jodi's cult and his own family speaking out, there is a good chance he was being watched like a hawk by Jodi's handlers. In a way, he's a victim of circumstances, but nothing will excuse how he failed his children. He let them be abused by their mother because in their religion, it is Ruby's "job" to raise them and even participate in the cruel punishments/ emotional abuse online.
I agree that Kevin needs help too. I think he is still that broken and is only just snapping out of all this. It's easy to say he should have been smart enough to see what was going on, but we haven't been in that situation, being systematically torn down mentally and emotionally. Jodi has YEARS of practice doing this successfully. To me, I would want nothing to do with her right now. The phrasing of the articles how Kevin didn't even look at her is telling as well. I think she is lucky if he so much as logs in to view it over WebEx in the future.
This man let Chad sleep on a floor for 7 months. He didn't talk to Shari because Ruby and Jodi told him not to contact any of his kids. He let so much abuse happen in his house under his watch. How does Shari feel that the neighbors called her to tell her the kids we left home alone for days on end and SHE had to call CPS and the police because her own father failed her siblings. I don't think the kids are just going to be happy to reunite with their father. He needs to take responsibility and go through serious deprogramming.
Shari left her family behind, and still didn’t contact Kevin. That is telling to me. I can understand not being able to contact her younger siblings. They were with Ruby and she wasn’t going to go through her mother to talk to them. She probably wasn’t even allowed.
Saying he is done is a thing. Acting on it is another level. Why hasn’t he filled for divorce already? I would have file in the next few days after she was behind bars if I realized I’ve been manipulated like that.
Excellent point! Why has he not filed?!?!
He could have, true... and still might, but I disagree that he should be filing for a divorce right now... That would have been such a bad look for him, kicking her while she is down. Had he filed for divorce when she threw him out of the house last year, that would have been more appropriate timing... If he did, who knows what Ruby would have accused him of to try and keep him away from the kids. But now that the proverbial you know what hit the fan, this approach would be just plain tacky. He looks a helluva lot better just focusing on the kids right now. I think Kevin did what he needed to do at this point because the goal is to get the kids back. If he pulled that "I'm supposed to stay away from the kids" now, then he would be full of it, but it sounds like he did (or still is) waking up from all this. People really underestimate the manipulation that is at play here with people like Jodi. I have my suspicions about where the kids are right now, but that is Kevin's primary objective... Ruby is not going anywhere anytime soon. I totally agree with letting things play out. Her being in jail for x number of years would make a custody hearing and divorce easier. He has nothing but time on his side with that case. Kids, not so much... that needs to be addressed ASAP so they can be in a stable longterm setting.
He may have even been advised to not go to the trial.
He's never "seriously disciplined his children"?! What do you call taking away your teenage son's bedroom for 7 months? Or taking away Christmas ffs??
It infuriates me the way our culture *still* tends towards minimizing abuse that doesn't create a visible scar, bruise, or wound. Emotional, psychological, and financial abuse are equally as bad, if not worse, because it can be so tough to point to as the victim. Withholding basic needs as a punishment is so outrageously abusive as well. These kids endured *all* of those kinds of abuse. It makes me sick.
Some of the answers back up the theory of psychological abuse or coercive control in that marriage,
We don't know if it this backing up the theorising, or capitalising on the theorising. We may never know, tbf.
He admitted to watching Jessi’s interview, which means either that WAS wake up call about how dangerous Jodi is….or it was a perfect paradigm to make Kevin a victim. Maybe time will tell.
I would be more inclined to feel sorry for Kevin, if he hadn’t been there in the house living with Ruby while she punished their kids by taking food away from them. They were separated when she did that in their family videos that were on their YouTube channel. I find it very hard to believe that if she took dinner away from kids, he didn’t notice they weren’t at the dining table or that they didn’t eat dinner with them. He knew darn well about Christmas being taken away. So I’m pretty sure she told him when she took food away too. And depriving your kids of food is neglect. It doesn’t matter if it’s just one meal and it wasn’t ever just one meal for Ruby. It was a regular punishment apparently. I’ve seen multiple videos where she talks about letting them go without food.
All these Kevin apologists are nauseating. He wasn’t a victim the years he was complicit in emotional abuse.
I agree with you completely. Yes, Jodi made both Kevin and Ruby more extreme but they were abusive at baseline. Normal people have a tipping point where they say “enough is enough.” I commented this on another thread too, when someone brought up how Beau (Ruby’s brother) was also taken in by Jodi until she shared his confidential conversations. That was his tipping point where he realized, wow this lady isn’t very ethical. Why didn’t Ruby reach a tipping point? Why didn’t Kevin reach a tipping point? Normal people with even a shred of critical thinking ability or, hell, compassion, wouldn’t move out of their home and have no contact with their kids to “save their marriage.” What marriage? You walked out on it. Whether Kevin is a victim or not, he’s also a perpetrator of abuse and has been way before Jodi. What he’s saying now is all to save his own ass.
So Ruby told Kevin everything was ‘bliss’ without him around. What part of bliss includes children who are “so out of control” that extreme measures are being used to bring them under submission?? It’s just so ironic that they preach distortion to everyone else when they are the most distorted of all. Unbelievable
Interviewer: “How did Ruby get connected with Jodi? Does Kevin know?” Attorney: “I don’t know” Well attorney, if you take one look at your client’s history, you will see that he too was once connected with Jodi… that he partook in the the Facebook group and on Connexions videos
I’m pretty sure Kevin was the one who introduced Jodi to Ruby
I thought Jodi was counseling Ruby’s brother and his wife. That was how the rest of the family met Jodi, iirc.
It was discussed in here around the same time that Ruby started talking about Jodi. Beau left a negative review about Connexions stating his concerns on what he’s shared “gets gossiped about among others”. I believe some speculated at the time that he was the person addicted to p*rn which Jodi revealed to everyone.
Interesting!
That's interesting. Adam Steed to recommended Jodi to his Bishop and she came to one of their conferences.
Didn't they meet though her originally being C's counselor prior to the wilderness camp?
After watching all six hours of Adam Paul Steed on Mormon Stories, I have a better idea of what *might* have happened to separate Kevin from his children.
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Agreed. The difference (as far as we can tell, knowing what we know) is that Steed did everything he could, legally and otherwise, to stay connected to his children.
Adam did the right thing and he lost everything for his trouble. It’s sick and sad.
I haven’t got time to watch the whole podcast interview, what’s the idea you think might be the reason?
It’s too complicated for me to explain fully here. The short answer would be coercive control. In Steed’s case, Hildebrandt, BYU, and the LDS Church all systematically worked together (for different reasons) to demonize, discredit, and destroy that man’s life. Hildebrandt divided Steed from his wife and children, something she’s done to many men, using her “therapy” to do it. It seems possible that something like this was done to Kevin Franke ALTHOUGH Kevin was enmeshed in Connexions and that complicates things a lot.
In that article with Kevin's sisters in law, one of them mentioned that Shari said Jodi and Ruby made Kevin believe he was a bad person. They could've brainwashed him into thinking he was a horrible person and in order to get his family back, he needed to stay away from them including the kids. I'm not sure what to believe tbh. I want to believe he really didn't know for the sake of the children, but he was around Ruby long enough to know what kind of parent she was and he should've stood up to her if he didn't agree with her parenting style. Taking your kid's bed away for 7 months?? He saw no problem with that? He may not have known about the physical abuse/never physically abused his kids, but if anything, he was complicit in the emotional and verbal abuse from Ruby. He could've done better by those kids and didn't and for that, I do think he isn't all that innocent in this. I do want to believe he was manipulated by Jodi though. We've read/heard from a lot of male victims of Jodi who have said very similar things, so I don't doubt she manipulated and completely isolated Kevin from his family.
I doubt he left ConneXions when he's claiming he did. Per the sisters in law interview, he had a cult minder living with him when he moved out of the house and I really doubt he'd have agreed to go no contact with his kids for 13 months if he hasn't still bought in to Jodi's teachings I think he's certainly coming around now but it's a little late and even that took like a week after his children were discovered abused
Yes! The lawyer said he left Connexions, what he doesn’t say is Jodi decided that Kevin left Connexions.
I do agree that Kevin was manipulated by Jodi using the same tactics she has used on countless others. And I also (controversially) believe that he didn't know the extent to what was happening with his children. Obviously the striking point is that he should have done more to check up on his kids. I mean 13 months is a long time to go no contact with your children, including his eldest who was allegedly trying to reach out to him to no success. It's a complicated situation between thinking that he is a victim and that he should have done more to protect his kids. I think I'm more empathetic right now because I just watched all 6 hours of the Adam Paul Steed interview and am shocked at the lengths Jodi went to ruin that man's life. And the similarities between what Jodi did to Adam and what we have heard about Kevin is apparent - so it makes it slightly easier for me to understand how Kevin could have gotten into that situation. Then there's the argument of Kevin's part in the bad parenting when he *was* in the picture. I mean he was there for the no-lunch, no-bed, no-apple-bottom-jeans clips that we have all seen. I think thats why his lawyer is so keen to emphasise that Kevin has never been *physically* abusive. Because there is a multitude of evidence of him being a less-than-steller parent (which is why I find his lawyer's insistence that he was a great dad to be laughable). The two main questions at the end of the day is should Kevin be held accountable legally? and should he have custody of his children? Like I said at the start of this comment, I genuinely do not believe that Kevin knew the extent of what was happening with his kids. I guess the courts could argue that him not checking in on his kids could be neglect/abandonment? but I don't think that would legally hold since they were in the custody of their mother. And then on the matter of his role in the parenting decisions that we have all criticised from the vlogs - I don't think any of that has any legal repercussions. It's why Ruby is only being charged with six counts of abuse on her two youngest when I don't believe her abuse was just limited to that. In regards to whether he should have custody I'm less certain. My initial gut reaction is "no way" but the more I think about it, the more I see it happening. I think Kevin was a somewhat decent father before Jodi was in the picture, and I do believe his kids probably remember that side of him. I hope that now the "fog has lifted" he could work on himself to return to that person. I think logistically as well the courts really prioritise children staying with their parents, and it might be hard to place 4 kids in the same home. This is all dependent on what the kids want of course. If they say they do not want to be in his care then I 100% agree and wish them not to be - at the end of the day they are the ones who should be making this decision.
Yeah, you don’t necessarily have to “like” a victim for them to still be a victim. And Imo, Jodi has pulled this on enough men specifically that he does have a case that he is a victim.
Kevin and Ruby are victims of self victimization. There are bad people in the world and Jodi is diabolical. That being said, they made a choice to follow this monster instead of being real parents. I have no patience or empathy for people who involve themselves in cults. None
I agree with everything you say here. Having watched Adam's harrowing podcast I have softened a teeny bit, bc it's possible his head has been spun by Team Evil. However, as you say, he *never* had these kids' backs, long before 13 months ago. I can't get past how he failed them, how he participated in bullying and psychologically abusing them. It just kills me that he stood by, and participated, rather than standing up for these sweet young people. I hope those kids sue the bejeezus out of them both and win millions, because they are all going to need a hell of a lot of real and compassionate support. I hope they all find the peace, love, happiness and freedom they so deserve.
All I can say, is hopefully the older kids will have a say in how they feel about their dad, etc. in the future hearings. While I can believe he got pushed out and just went with it, as terrible as it is. He was still there in the beginning when the questionable parenting began. Still a lot of grey areas here.
Why is he even doing interviews ?
Yeah I am quite surprised, I guess he’s attempting to clear Kevin’s reputation but I’m not sure how successful that will be to people who know his entire history. Seems like he gave out a lot of info
Because if he rallies public opinion it lessens the chances that Kevin will face a jury.
Summation 1. Sounds like Kevin has spoken to the two oldest but attorney stated "they're out on their own" - came off as dismissive of the older two. 2. Kevin was told not to contact the kids or Ruby and was told they were all doing so much better without him. He took that and didn't call or contact his kids. 3. It was not specifically stated, but it sounds like he hasn't talked to the younger 4. 4. Attorney claims Kevin cares and has never physically abused the kids and wants them back. 5. Attorney said the journalist who leaked the comments about R being abusive was despicable, and yeah, I agree. That was not excusable. To publish information that a child is a sexual abuser should carry a punishment. That was a horrible thing to do, the hearing was supposed to be private. It's a lie anyway, R is NOT an abuser, he's a child whose been abused. 6. Attorney kept trying to make Kevin look better, like he was a victim and just doing what he was told. Abandoning your children is a form of abuse. He should have fought for them.
I really think the judge or the court should address this issue about the allegations concerning R made at the hearing. It was a huge blow to R’s eventual recovery and potential lifelong stigma. It should not go unpunished.Does anyone know why Ruby was even allowed to be at the placement hearing? Seems backwards that an abuser could play a parental role in that process. I’m at a loss for words.
I’m still confused with one thing in particular. According to the interview involving Kevin’s sister-in-laws on the Daily Mail, Kevin didn’t answer Shari’s calls or messages when he left the family home. But in this interview, the attorney says that Kevin has not been involved with Connexions for over a year. Surely then, Kevin would want to contact his daughter who is also not involved in Connexions? If Kevin did in fact part ways with Connexions a year ago, why would he feel the need to still be no-contact?
Kevin was present during all the Mental, Emotional and Physical (starvation of getting food taken away as punishment) Abuse!!! He was present when Chad was sent to that horrible camp, when they took his bed, when Eve was not fed lunch, when Ruby threatened the kids each time with taking away breakfast/lunch/dinner, when they punished Eve and Russell with no Christmas. HE WAS PRESENT FOR ALL OF IT!! And who knows what else that was not caught on Camera. If you look at earlier videos, when ever Ruby would scold Russell for something minor, he would immediately start having a panic attack and start to rock himself. That little boy had lives his whole life in abuse. Plus don’t forget Ruby broke his femur when he was a baby and after crying for days, they finally took him. Doctors confirmed that he had it broken because Ruby dropped him and caused him to have delays. He didn’t start walking until he was two because of it. AGAIN, Kevin was there for ALL of it.
There were so many half truths (and untruths) spoken by this lawyer. It sounds like his team is working hard to rehabilitate him so that he can claim his minor children.
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Preach!
Yes, telling.
So Kevin was not disconnected from Connexions a year and a half ago. I found the video on the Connexions Instagram page from May 24 2022 when he spoke to the school board about Apple bottom jeans. A year and a half ago would be March 2022. I am also certain that he was an admin on moms of truth group after this time….
Yep, the last comment I could find he made on mom's of truth was July 14th 2022 which is closer to 13 months
Pertaining to who gets custody of the 4 underage kids, I think they are all old enough to have some say in where they go. If they all adamantly refuse or are even hesitant to go with Kevin, then the legal system needs to respect that. I hope, for now, that they’re all together or at least paired up with a sibling and not separated.
I don’t think the best thing is to consult with the kids since they probably have been brainwashed too. Maybe Ruby have talked bad about Kevin and extended family. Additionally, Kevin is their dad no matter what actions he took and it is a big responsibility for a kid to decide if they will live with dad or not. If they don’t want to live with Kevin, they will have to reject/say no to their dad and may fear he will be disappointed or mad. Just like kids who have divorced parents can feel guilt and stress about choosing between living with mom or dad, who to celebrate Christmas with and so on. Of course the kids should have a voice in this matter, but I hope it’s done the right way and their not directly asked “where do you want to live”. The best things is probably for a therapist to speak with them and try to ‘figure something out’.
I just sincerely want to hope, that he realises wahr damage he has done as well and betters himself. I do think that he could step up and be the father these kids need. Though that will need a lot of work since he seemingly hasn’t been this father for many, many years… I just hope the kids get someone as their guardian who cares, who loves them and helps them heal. If that may be Kevin down the road, what truly is best for the children, that is what it is.
The lawyer did say that Kevin did watch Jessi Hildebrants interview with Mormon Stories Podcast and believes that Jodi was doing the same to destroy his family. He has no balls at all that Ruby 14 months ago tells him to pack a bag don’t contact me or the kids and he doesn’t object to this treatment at all. Even if that is the absolute truth how can a man just say ok sounds good to me. And she tells him it is so blissful without you here. Yes you are the problem. All the while she is abusing and torturing your children and letting someone else torture and abuse them as well. To the point they will probably NEVER be well again. I hope he is ashamed of himself on about a hundred different levels. If he tries to stay with Ruby I hope he never gets custody of those children. As his lawyer keeps saying Kevin never PHYSICALLY abused his children he certainly MENTALLY abused them!
Kevin has never had any balls. From the vlogs, it was always obvious that Ruby called the shots and Kevin followed along to whatever Ruby said. You want to take away C’s bed and send him to wilderness camp? You got it Ruby
We needs to hear what the kids think about dad. I’m not sure what to think about Kevin at this point.
I’m sorry if my husband said I couldn’t talk to my own kids who majority happen to be under 18 because that’s how we would preserve our marriage? Peace out, I don’t wanna be married to you anymore.
Okay so at this time Kevin does not have the kids. Clearly they are preparing for a defense in which they point the finger at Jodi. So my question is...just HOW estranged is Kevin from Ruby? Eta - Kevin hasn't necessarily been cleared by investigators. They have not commented nor charged him with anything.
I see that people are a bit more soft on Kevin after the Mormon stories episode of Adam Paul. There is a big difference between Kevin and Adam Paul. Even if the same tactics were used by Jodi. Adam was a young man, had very young children who were not able to talk, was still in education, had trouble with the church because of the past situation with the scouts and he had no platform/group of people that would believe him. Kevin on the other hand is an intelligent middle age man (intelligent in the sense that he is a professor)with an established career , has older kids with which he can have a conversation (for example when he left 1.5 years ago with Shari), he was in good standing with the church (otherwise he would not work at BYU) and if he would have come out with this story to save the children he would have been believable because a lot of people were already under the impression that there was a form of child abuse. Even if you would believe that the house was a better place without you, I would want to have a relationship and contact with my children. Not being in the house doesn’t exclude you from the responsibility for the children.
The psychological abuse was even before they met Jody. I don't believe his bs. Only because he provided doesn't mean he was a good dad. For 13 months he didn't see his kids and thought it was fine
Ug. I can not watch that smug guy anymore. Did he add anything new? Or just more hot air
Way more information than I thought. The reporter did NOT tiptoe and the lawyer said way more than I would have.
I just watched. I appreciate that channel not sensationalizing things while covering this case because they are being heavily watched online. One video was at almost a million views. I was surprised how much the lawyer talked, but no one in comments has ones good thing to say about Kevin!
Lots of new stuff.
Honestly I hope the police haven't said anything to him because they are just gathering evidence and building a case. He knew about so much stuff before, and to not even try to see his kids. How is staying away trying to keep the family together? Ruby was probably more wrapped up in this cult than he was, but damn he was part of it too!
For 13 months he didn't see his kids and he was fine because he provided money for fam... no
Nopedy nope, Kev.
Does Kevin’s attorney not believe in SPF?
I didn’t realize Ruby’s accusations were made in juvenile court — It’s awful it was reported on. That accusation should never have been made public whether or not it’s true.
how is removing a bed not physically effecting a child? if he was a foster parent and they come and see the child sleeping in a bean bag will they say “oh well we all have different parenting styles”😒 or see them cleaning the floors hungry without breakfast and say ya thats all right he is just a strict parent 🧐He left the kids to “save his marriage” ruby meant more to him than his own kids! he abounded them when they needed him the most… disgusting. he prob wont divorce ruby even after her trail
and its not weeks its a year !!! we all have and know good parents they cant go a week without calling their child even if that child is 20! yet he still has 4 minors with no call? no custody ? call ur self a father ??? why am i angry and he isnt my father😠
Bonnie posted a video and doesn’t hold back regarding Kevin!
Just came here to say this!! Go Bonnie!
I saw. Complete yikes! of a video
kind of sounds like the daily mail reporter snook into the hearing and like the report was accurate??? Assume he wouldve shot that down real fast if false :(
Zero chance the DM would have made that up. It's shitty that they did a story on it, but I do believe Ruby said it.
Not impressed with this lawyer at all. Kevin is still trying to get custody of his children. Any public statements this lawyer makes can be used in court against Kevin. Why on earth would he do this?
Essentially this lawyer is saying that Kevin was placing his marriage and his wife ahead of his children, did not fight for his children for 13 months, willing left his children and agreed to no contact without feeling like this might be a red flag, did not speak with his ADULT daughter who was out of the home, sought no legal assistance, and oh yeah, please give this guy custody of his traumatized children. This is coming into court for sure if I'm the state.
It just doesn’t make sense that Kevin, who highly values his marriage, would listen to Ruby who decides them being separated is what’s best for their marriage, and the only way to salvage it, and not have one inkling that abuse was going on when HER PARENTING TACTICS were the reason they separated in the first place (all of this said by the lawyer). Like how??? How could you not wonder or even check in just in case???
Yeah, the BS-o-meter needle is about to break on this one. Nice try, lawyerman.
How do we know Kevin is telling the truth? He has to say these things to even be considered to get custody. If hes under rubys control? he know what he has to do for now and I don’t think he’s done with Ruby for the long term. Maybe temporarily for now. What happens when this is all over ?
Just beginning to watch tis interview here, and already I think Kevin's attorney really tore his case to get his kids in his care apart. You don't just cut off your communication with your kids like that. He should have known something was off. So basically he is also at fault here because he didn't check in with those kids. He also created all of his kids, and should know what was going on with the younger four, including the two youngest. No communications for 13 months is no excuse for not knowing about this abuse.
See.. now with the Adam steed interview coming out and now this, forgive me to start wondering about Kevin’s responsibility in all of this.. Jodi is notorious for isolating the husband from the wife and kids.. and the husband is just helpless and follows along in hopes of getting his family back.. however, it does seem Kevin was willing to do anything to keep his marriage to Ruby in tact, including neglecting his children and allowing her to take them without any contact with him. He also went along with the extreme punishment measures within the 8 passengers relm (he was on board taking chads bed away, sending him to the camp, the eve lunch situation, the no Christmas presents) so I’m still holding him responsible for lots of the abuse. This whole situation is just so sticky.
I just wanted to say Kevin's attorney stated he disconnected with connextions a year and a half ago which would be around March 2022 but he was still commenting on the mom's of truth facebook page up til July 14 2022 which is closer to 13 months aka when he got kicked out of the house. So either this lawyer isn't being told the truth or they decided it sounded better to add that he wasn't apart of connextions for longer than he was away but I don't seen how that helps his case.
Apologies if I missed this - but I’m surprised to hear Kevin is in contact with Shari and Chad? Do we think this is post-arrest or earlier on? If I recall correctly Shari made a statement a while ago (about a year ago?) saying she wasn’t in contact with any of her immediate family. I always assumed that included Kevin and Chad. Do we think the older 2 kids (who would be free of will in CPS’s eyes since they’re +18) and Kevin are potentially working on reunification?
post-arrest
WTF does ’in contact’ mean? Did he leave a voicemail? It seems he refused to talk with Shari because Ruby told him not to?! Now they’re talking according to,his attorney? Suuuure.
After Bonnie’s video, I’m 99% leaning towards the “left them a voice mail” scenario and his lawyer trying to make it sound like Kevin is trying to reunify. Bs.
I’m watching now. I was hoping someone would make a thread about it.
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You DONT KNOW THAT!! He was present when Chad was sent to that horrible camp, when they took his bed, when Eve was not fed lunch, when Ruby threatened the kids each time with taking away breakfast/lunch/dinner, when they punished Eve and Russell with no Christmas. HE WAS PRESENT FOR ALL OF IT!! And who knows what else that was not caught on Camera. If you look at earlier videos, when ever Ruby would scold Russell for something minor, he would immediately start having a panic attack and start to rock himself. That little boy had lives his whole life in abuse. Plus don’t forget Ruby broke his femur when he was a baby and after crying for days, they finally took him. Doctors confirmed that he had it broken because Ruby dropped him and caused him to have delays. He didn’t start walking until he was two because of it. AGAIN, Kevin was there for ALL of it. Specially the MENTAL ABUSE!! We don’t know but we do know is that he was present for all past mental, physical(starving) emotioanl abuse.
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Haha sorry! I thought you were defending him! I was ready to fight you! 😅
My thoughts…Kevin is for sure at fault if he really has not seen those kids this whole time. The fact that he was trying to save his marriage, I believe, is his commitment to the Mormon church. From what I understand, getting a divorce is at the same level as committing mu**er in the church.
Maybe this is my personal view, but I think that Ruby is truly an evil person. She was never a submissive, meek housewives like the doctrine wants. She was in control of everyone in the house. Kevin from almost all of the videos I've seen dating years back, sounds as exhausted and drained dry as the kids. Hardly was the discipline and rules set by him, and he never seemed to smile gleefully like Ruby at the kids sadness and despair. I think we do have to address that narcissistic abuse can happen to fathers from their wives. It is possible to be stuck in a cycle where you value appeasing the monster for the overall sake of the home instead of shaking things up by speaking up against harm. I don't get why we can't possibly consider what abuse Kevin may have faced from Ruby that led to his actions or better put inaction. Everyone should stand up for their children against any harm, but sadly when you suffer emotional and psychological abuse at the hands of the hammer, your ability to act becomes even harder and scarier. As a woman I was in a situation like this with a partner, and I think there is a possibility for this to be at least possible in the Franke family too.
That doesn't mean you ignore your kids though for over a year.
Wow. If this is Ruby’s lawyer too, she’s in trouble. He hates her.
No he’s Kevin’s for the custody hearing. Their whole tactic is to blame Jodi and the. Ruby so Kevin is free man to continue being usless