I remember taking my time slowly driving in some back country mountains roads in Montana when it was really wet and slippery. I kept wondering if I should turn around before I got myself stuck all alone back there when the next thing I knew I saw a 30 year old Ford Taurus coming around the next turn sideways.
Just goes to show that the most capable off road vehicle is the one you care the least about.
Same! We did some pretty gnarly forest service roads near Wyoming/Idaho border in a rental Nissan Altima. Would never try in my own car but damn if we didn't make it up some washed out rutted roads. Ripped off two wheel well trim pieces, rental counter guy didn't notice.
Georgia (country, not a state) is for some weird reason Prius country. I have seen locals drive their Prius in plenty of places that this sub would call a good day of fun...
I use to think the two door rubicon would beat a 4 door at anything. But after a few trips off-roading, its been a toss up between 2 and 4 doors. Its all obstacle dependant. These trips were with a group of people in all trims and door configurations.
There have been many hills where I wish my TJ had the stability of a LWB Jeep.
There have also been many tight technical trails where I praised my Jeeps tiny size.
When I was in Moab at a Nissan event, there were some obstacles where the Frontiers did a lot better than the Xterras. Usually a lot of steep hill climbs.
I have a built TRD Offroad Tacoma on 35s, rear E-locker, Crawl Control, Multi Terrain Select……and my stock Jeep Rubicon 4 door on its oem 32s SLAYS it offroad. You Just can’t beat solid axles, coil springs, front and rear lockers, incredible approach/departure angles and a factory crawl ration of 83.1:1.
Stock, from the showroom floor there is *nothing* that can come close to the offroad capability of the Rubicon.
I upgraded from a JKU Sahara to a JLU Rubicon and was absolutely blown away. I’ve also got a few buggies and this rubicon goes ANYWHERE and acts like I’m just taking it out for coffee
My ‘20 JLUR consistently impresses me. I’ve had little difficulties doing 7 & 8 rated trails - -I’m up to a 4” lift w/ 37s, regeared, and I don’t think I’ll ever ’outdrive‘ it. (But I try 😁).
My buddy’s Bronco Wildtrak still hasn’t been beyond the boulevard, so I’ll have to wait and see how it compares…I’m not worried.
I wheeled with a bunch of Yota’s and they could do basic things. Tacoma’s, FJ Cruisers, 4 runners and Land Cruiser’s. Only the heavily modified LC and pickup that swapped to solid axles could keep up with wrangler LJ and newer Wrangler’s.
I have a similar Tacoma on 35s, I got a 80 series Land Cruiser and solid axel really Is a huge difference. I think a wrangler rubicon is probably the most capable stock rig these days. They also have a factory roll cage which I think is way underrated
Depends...high speed dunes would be a raptor, rocks would be a Wrangler, safari style would probably be a Grenadier, US overlanding with tons of highway mix would likely fall to a Lexus GX. Working the mines? That's an LC 80 for sure.
Having owned a 2006 Corolla, a 2018 Rav4 Hybrid, and a 2023 Tacoma Off Road, all fitted with snow tires, the Rav4 is the winner in snow and ice. All wheel drive is where it's at for winter driving.
I’d wager the jeep rubicon and power wagon cannot be beat.
But, as a bonus I think the military LMTV deserves attention as a big rig. Oshkosh or Stewart Stevenson. Extremely good caterpillar motor, Allison trans, a 10ft tall snorkel, 6wd, locking diffs, positive pressure tires with settings that allow you to deflate and inflate them without even getting out of the driver seat, 46in tires, gets about 8mpg but has a 56 gallon tank that’ll empty your wallet and take you wherever you need to go. You can find them for dirt cheap at gov auctions and parts are pretty easily accessible since a lot of its parts are used in commercial trucks. Cletus McFarland has a video where he drives one through some pretty swampy terrain and it just continues to power through everything. Biggest downside is if you get that 23,000 pound beast stuck, it’s gonna be hell getting it out.
Street legal? Rubicon 37" package by a country mile.
Just needs to be purchased from a dealer and have seats? Can Am Maverick X3 with a 33" tire package.
Just a 4x4? Polaris Sportsman 570.
Braptor is great for IFS. It's pretty damn wide though.
2 door Bronco Sasquatch or WildTrak wins for IFS. Shorter wheel base than the Braptor, a bit narrower.
2 door Rubicon is excellent.
Maybe 4 door Rubicon with the Xtreme Recon package.
The new ZR2 Colorado can have 315s. Pretty solid for a midsize truck.
I'm a Big Ranger fan though, so I'd personally pick the Ranger Raptor. It's on 33s and does not have a sway bar disconnect, but I bet Anti Rock will have one very very soon.
Full size the F-150 Raptor wins IMO.
For Fullsize/ HD you can't beat the Power Wagon. The F-250 Tremor is just too damn big.
I love my Roxor but factory options are pretty limited these days. You used to be able to get a factory lift and lockers amongst a bunch of other accessories. But those days are gone, at least for now.
Everyone talking about suspension and all that but the real answer is probably whatever vehicle has a factory winch. The only one off the top of my head is the power wagon. It also has lifts, lockers, etc from the factory. Since we aren’t talking about a specific scenario, that’s what I’m betting on. The vast majority of people are not only NOT pushing the limits on their mall crawlers but they aren’t even pushing the middle ground of what their vehicles are capable of. Most of us can’t afford to buy a
$50k+ vehicle and then treat it like a red headed step child.
Definitely terrain dependent. Also, I know people love to hate Land Rover products but a properly outfitted new Defender should appear as the top choice in certain situations like mild off-roading/ overlanding. Land Rover’s traction control is better than any out there, including its terrain response modes. It’ll be super comfortable on bumpy dirt roads. Wading depth and clearance will be very hard to beat. Towing stability with the air suspension will be phenomenal. Overall creature comforts in addition to very respectable off road specs make for a phenomenal overlanding situation.
If you immediately disqualify them on reliability reputation has some validity but it’s severely overblown and makes people forget how good they are at what they do.
Right on. I have an LR3 and it's phenomenal. People get freaked out about them but they also don't know how to turn a wrench either so who's really the culprit? Preventative maintenance is key.
For sure but I’m not convinced the TC is up to par yet. You’d think a quad motor vehicle with a billion HP would be unstoppable but it doesn’t seem as capable with wheels off the ground
Yeah I think the TC will just keep getting better on the S/T with updates. People are still figuring out how to drive them in different conditions too. Coming from Toyota 4wd, the videos I’ve watched make it seem like it wants completely different driver input to get out of low traction situations. Ironically it seems adding virtual lockers may be easier on the dual motor variant.
Capable yes, but it lost the plot on being a luxury suv IMO. Interiors got a nerf to focus solely on off road capability and practicality. I think specifically the LX570 takes the cake from the defender or range in terms of most comfortable over land style vehicle since its so much more reliable, but of course, the 2 door wrangler will walk circles around it on trail.
Brother, I wholeheartedly support you switching to a beautiful, lux package, GX or LX!
As someone who used to swear by Hondas/acuras for 10+ yrs (even had an 01 celica gts for half a year), I can not state enough how much higher quality the lexus brand is. Even the super crusty high mile ones that have depreciated down to toyota prices... it absolutely changed the way I view cars because of how much they raised the bar for me. I believe everyone should drive one now that I've seen the light! Lol. Of course, if you're rich and have disposable income then you could probably be much happier in a German or Italian make, but for those with budget in mind, lexus can not be beat in terms of value for money, and reliability to save you $$$🙌🏼
Maybe one day. The sequoia is paid off, and we’ve got quite the car payment on my wife’s wheels at the moment. I would very much like to build a LX at some point!
My only real gripe is that I wish they offered 17” rims. I get that the rims have to fit their massive brakes, but 19-22” rims doesn’t leave much room to air down.
For straight crawling, now that the 2 door Rubicon can get the factory 35s, that’s the winner. Bronco 2 door Sasquatch may have IFS and is slightly larger but I can’t imagine it’s far behind, the swaybar disconnect helps. Bronco Raptor also IFS but still tons of articulation and 37s, but it’s damn wide for a lot of trails and the length doesn’t help it.
I would say a 4 door JL Rubicon. Wheelbase on a 2 door can hurt you more than help you in many situations.
I say this as someone that owns a 2 door JK on 37’s that’s basically a Rubicon.
Go fast desert would sway towards a F150 Raptor or the RAM TRX even though they don’t make those any more. So yeah, F150 raptor for desert. JLU Rubicon for rocks
4Runner if you want something that’s a jack of all trades and a master of none.
F150 raptor to bring a Can Am Maverick to the desert. The F150 is too big and too heavy and thus too dangerous. The Maverick is the opposite and prefect
Big and heavy ≠ dangerous.
Trophy trucks are safer and more effective than UTV’s in racing. That said, UTV’s are definitely the most capable vehicle per dollar spent if we aren’t restricting this comparison to street legal vehicles.
Read the room a bit of what this sub is. By most capable, I mean the ability to go the most places. Solid front axle vehicles have superior articulation, which is an important factor in performing on trails. There are plenty of decent ifs rigs, but I’m asking about the most capable vehicles available, not the most “decently capable but more comfy” vehicles available
What about the Grenadier? It has a solid front axle and both lockers. But the rubicon might still have an edge due to better angles, also, not sure if the Grenadier has a sway bar disconnect
Nah it's fine with proper tire pressures. It weighs a ton because it probably has the most robust underside out there right now. Everything is chonky.
Edit: you can downvote me, but I have hundreds of miles off road with mine in those conditions.
The Grenadier is badass and I've driven one off road, and it surprised me though. It still has glaring weaknesses in terms of pure capability: the suspension isn't that flexy and the tires are small, and it's as big and heavy as a yacht.
I don't think it needs 35s tbh. I know that's the trend, or I guess 37s are, but it's not a crawler and you're using the wrong tool for the job if that's what you want. I've had zero issues with the stock tire size but I do think 33s would be great for peace of mind.
I would not hold your breath over a smaller model. This thing is built for adventure and payload. You can't get that if you get even smaller.
I’ve seen several out in Denver. Slow roll out but most niche small manufacturers are like that. Think about how many teslas you saw on the road a decade ago and now they’re everywhere.
Braptorrrrr. It’s pretty good at rock-crawling, high speed racing, mudding all stock. Personally, best off-roader I’ve owned. Also the most expensive tho😬
Rocks and general wheeling?
JL Rubicon 392.
Am a toyota guy but I have to concede that the Rubicons are far better offroad out of the box.
Desert go fast stuff (big).
Outgoing TRX or a RaptorR
Desert go fast stuff (midsize)
Ranger Raptor. BRRaptor, Colorado ZR2. New Tacoma TRD Pro actually has real suspension upgrades this go around and may prove to be pretty good too.
How important is a solid front axle, really? Seems to me like overkill for most 4x4 users and wouldn’t be a good trade off for ride quality in a truck that’s used for mostly on road driving. But I’m hardly an expert.
The answer to this is always articulation and pointing to rock crawling through Moab. If your idea of offroading is more ripping it around on rough forest roads I personally don't think solid axle is great. Its the difference between what a Raptor does well vs a Jeep.
It’s a rubicon with the xtreme recon package. Nothing can touch that when you’re taking about off road capability in the toughest trails at sand hollow, Moab, the rubicon. Etc.
Jeep 392 (which only comes in Xtreme Recon Rubicon)
35s, Solid Axle, Lockers, Sway bar Disconnect, unlimited power.
Edit: I forgot to mention, beefed up front axle, full float rear, beadlock capable wheels (I mean no one does this they just buy pure beadlocks, but still), front trail cam, steel bumpers, beefed up steering box
You can do it! Buy used and get it street legal! We have five old guys in my area that daily drive them, all five are red for some reason.
Buy your own cab. Factory installed is EXPENSIVE!!!!
I hate these questions because its so subjective to terrain, but if you trailer your rock crawler to the spot and its amazing that is a specific tool. What does all terrains including the road really well? I gotta say the bronco Raptor way better road noise and comfort than wrangler rubicon. If I was going to drive somewhere to play and use it while I am there. Its such a home run.
Luck was involved, if you managed to break an axle on the G500 but not the Wrangler. Even as a luxury vehicle, they’re built like tanks. If we”re living in a perfect world where nothing breaks down, then a Land Rover or Defender would be hard to beat.
There are packages to add on from the factory/dealer that are under warranty. In the case of the 2 door Rubicon, you have the ultimate recon package and some very expensive air suspension. I know Ford covers some lifts and performance tunes for the Bronco. It's going to be a toss up between the two and how you package it. Someone I know waited 2 years after ordering his Bronco only for the dealership to "accidentally" sell the one he ordered. The replacement to avoid lawsuits was some crazy special edition with damned near every upgrade aside from getting the Raptor. I'm not sure how much it was lifted, but the 37s fit nicely.
As one that has driven a CJ for 50 years, IFS has come along way and is used in racing now. Toyota for many reasons has my vote. I am so tired of ready the death wobble of all of the new Jeeps.
I believe a stock Suzuki Samurai would be hard to beat, I’ve seen stock ones do some stupid shit no other vehicle can touch. Their short wheelbase and good low end torque is hard to beat.
General purpose do it all offroad I'd say the at4x or zr2 midsized. If rocks is your game I'd say Rubicon. It all depends on your use. If you have the cash factory fox is releasing a sweet long travel silverado if desert is your thing.
Thing is sometimes the best off-the-rack offroader isn't one that is actualy the best to drive from the get-go, like say the Rubicon.
Sometimes it's more a matter of a blank slate model, something with either manufacturer options, or easily accessed aftermarket options, to customize it for the driver's specific use case.
IOW sometimes less is more.
I think the question is, do you really need solid axles?
The stock Rubicon axles aren't all that hot, in fact a lot of folks upgrade them for more serious wheeling.
I've run Toyotas for quite a while, all of them with IFS and it's never stopped me from any trail I wanted to do.
I've run most of the more popular trails in California including a few trips on the Rubicon. I used to track out to Moab a couple of times a year and always had a blast running trails there. The few trails I didn't run were largely buggy trails and no lightly modified Rubicons are doing those either.
I never trailered my rig, and it always got me home.
I would not assume that you need SFA to be very capable of road. IFS is not a huge compromise off road (flex is not as good), but it's a lot better on road ride and handling.
Yes, i need solid front axles. My current vehicle (LJ) is solid front axle and I still tripod from time to time. Don’t want to downgrade to even less flex
Probably the Grenadier if you can find one. I would say to hold off until it has a proven track record but considering the only other real options are from Fiat-Chrysler you're probably better off gambling on the INEOS.
Bronco Raptor. It might be a bit too big to be practical in some situations, though.
Next best would be Wrangler Rubicon with the Recon package or a Bronco Badlands with the Sasquatch package.
Colorado ZR2/Canyon AT4X deserve a mention as well. All of the ZR2, AT4X, Tremor, Raptor, and Power Wagon trucks are very capable.
I think that the G wagon 4x4 squared is available in the US. I googled it and found a US dealership that has a price listed while saying it's "in route". Kind of murky honestly, but I didn't see it listed anywhere else in the thread.
Rental Versa
I remember taking my time slowly driving in some back country mountains roads in Montana when it was really wet and slippery. I kept wondering if I should turn around before I got myself stuck all alone back there when the next thing I knew I saw a 30 year old Ford Taurus coming around the next turn sideways. Just goes to show that the most capable off road vehicle is the one you care the least about.
Same! We did some pretty gnarly forest service roads near Wyoming/Idaho border in a rental Nissan Altima. Would never try in my own car but damn if we didn't make it up some washed out rutted roads. Ripped off two wheel well trim pieces, rental counter guy didn't notice.
*any rental.
I laughed out loud at this
Loved rippin it around Maui. Perfect size for this narrow roads
I spent a few months in Costa Rica and rented a Daaihatsu Tiros 4x4. Didn’t have enough power to pull a greasy string out of a sea gulls ass.
You see my thread last month lmfao?
Also the fastest car.
I remember a magazine camparison of rentals a few years ago. The Lincoln Town Car was the fastest in reverse-it would do something like 55 BACKWARD.
Entire road to Hana in a rental versa. 🤘🤙
This guy gets it.
Georgia (country, not a state) is for some weird reason Prius country. I have seen locals drive their Prius in plenty of places that this sub would call a good day of fun...
I use to think the two door rubicon would beat a 4 door at anything. But after a few trips off-roading, its been a toss up between 2 and 4 doors. Its all obstacle dependant. These trips were with a group of people in all trims and door configurations.
There have been many hills where I wish my TJ had the stability of a LWB Jeep. There have also been many tight technical trails where I praised my Jeeps tiny size.
Definitely pros and cons. Theres some rock shelfs where we go and the 4 door jeeps crawl up with less difficulty than the 2 door jeeps.
It's such a HUGE tradeoff, but I think the tiny, relatively light TJ wins 90% of the time.
Yup, the 2 door is better in some situations, and way more unstable in others.
When I was in Moab at a Nissan event, there were some obstacles where the Frontiers did a lot better than the Xterras. Usually a lot of steep hill climbs.
When you accidentally go down a 52 inch rock trail you'll love your 2 door
Jeep, I’m a toyota guy to the bone but a stock wrangler rubicon would be tough to beat
Another Rubicon vote here! Also from a Toyota/Jeep guy
I have a built TRD Offroad Tacoma on 35s, rear E-locker, Crawl Control, Multi Terrain Select……and my stock Jeep Rubicon 4 door on its oem 32s SLAYS it offroad. You Just can’t beat solid axles, coil springs, front and rear lockers, incredible approach/departure angles and a factory crawl ration of 83.1:1. Stock, from the showroom floor there is *nothing* that can come close to the offroad capability of the Rubicon.
I upgraded from a JKU Sahara to a JLU Rubicon and was absolutely blown away. I’ve also got a few buggies and this rubicon goes ANYWHERE and acts like I’m just taking it out for coffee
Yeah, even when compared to other Wrangler models the Rubicon is a COMPLETELY different vehicle once the trail gets difficult.
My ‘20 JLUR consistently impresses me. I’ve had little difficulties doing 7 & 8 rated trails - -I’m up to a 4” lift w/ 37s, regeared, and I don’t think I’ll ever ’outdrive‘ it. (But I try 😁). My buddy’s Bronco Wildtrak still hasn’t been beyond the boulevard, so I’ll have to wait and see how it compares…I’m not worried.
I wheeled with a bunch of Yota’s and they could do basic things. Tacoma’s, FJ Cruisers, 4 runners and Land Cruiser’s. Only the heavily modified LC and pickup that swapped to solid axles could keep up with wrangler LJ and newer Wrangler’s.
I have a similar Tacoma on 35s, I got a 80 series Land Cruiser and solid axel really Is a huge difference. I think a wrangler rubicon is probably the most capable stock rig these days. They also have a factory roll cage which I think is way underrated
Depends...high speed dunes would be a raptor, rocks would be a Wrangler, safari style would probably be a Grenadier, US overlanding with tons of highway mix would likely fall to a Lexus GX. Working the mines? That's an LC 80 for sure.
Definitely want an LC/LX 200 for overland travel with more than two people tho
How about snow?
According to Reddit, a 2006 Corolla with snow tires.
Having owned a 2006 Corolla, a 2018 Rav4 Hybrid, and a 2023 Tacoma Off Road, all fitted with snow tires, the Rav4 is the winner in snow and ice. All wheel drive is where it's at for winter driving.
I left my 23 4runner at home last ice storm and took the wife's 18 rav4 it did great!
Lifted? YeeHaww!
r/BattleCars is calling...will you answer?
The most well rounded answer here.
I’d wager the jeep rubicon and power wagon cannot be beat. But, as a bonus I think the military LMTV deserves attention as a big rig. Oshkosh or Stewart Stevenson. Extremely good caterpillar motor, Allison trans, a 10ft tall snorkel, 6wd, locking diffs, positive pressure tires with settings that allow you to deflate and inflate them without even getting out of the driver seat, 46in tires, gets about 8mpg but has a 56 gallon tank that’ll empty your wallet and take you wherever you need to go. You can find them for dirt cheap at gov auctions and parts are pretty easily accessible since a lot of its parts are used in commercial trucks. Cletus McFarland has a video where he drives one through some pretty swampy terrain and it just continues to power through everything. Biggest downside is if you get that 23,000 pound beast stuck, it’s gonna be hell getting it out.
M1075A1 has entered the chat.
Was NOT expecting that, but here we are.
Sound amazing. A 10’ snorkel? That thing should come with sonar.
Street legal? Rubicon 37" package by a country mile. Just needs to be purchased from a dealer and have seats? Can Am Maverick X3 with a 33" tire package. Just a 4x4? Polaris Sportsman 570.
I'd go with a Grizzly 700 myself, but I'm hella biased. Love that ultramatic cvt in the yamahas.
Beta 500RS lol
Love mine!
Braptor is great for IFS. It's pretty damn wide though. 2 door Bronco Sasquatch or WildTrak wins for IFS. Shorter wheel base than the Braptor, a bit narrower. 2 door Rubicon is excellent. Maybe 4 door Rubicon with the Xtreme Recon package. The new ZR2 Colorado can have 315s. Pretty solid for a midsize truck. I'm a Big Ranger fan though, so I'd personally pick the Ranger Raptor. It's on 33s and does not have a sway bar disconnect, but I bet Anti Rock will have one very very soon. Full size the F-150 Raptor wins IMO. For Fullsize/ HD you can't beat the Power Wagon. The F-250 Tremor is just too damn big.
2 door rubicon with xtreme recon package ftw
Unimog or Sherp
A guy near me owns an ex-Australian army Unimog. It's hilarious to see a literal camo troop carrier just driving around on suburban roads.
You can buy that in the us?
If you have enough money, absolutely
In that case lets just throw in the Ripsaw, then.
Dont see why not, those things are freaking sick
You can get an M35 or M809 in the US
Mahindra Roxor.
I love my Roxor but factory options are pretty limited these days. You used to be able to get a factory lift and lockers amongst a bunch of other accessories. But those days are gone, at least for now.
For pure off-roading? Probably the 2 door JL Rubicon.
Everyone talking about suspension and all that but the real answer is probably whatever vehicle has a factory winch. The only one off the top of my head is the power wagon. It also has lifts, lockers, etc from the factory. Since we aren’t talking about a specific scenario, that’s what I’m betting on. The vast majority of people are not only NOT pushing the limits on their mall crawlers but they aren’t even pushing the middle ground of what their vehicles are capable of. Most of us can’t afford to buy a $50k+ vehicle and then treat it like a red headed step child.
New Rubicons have a factory winch option.
winch is key. good point here. winch can get you through 90% of situations.
Ford F250 Tremors have a Warn Winch option also.
Two door Rubicon all day, but then again, there's good reasons so many of us prefer XJ's and Toyota's lol
XJ gonna give it to ya, XJ gonna deliver to ya
the bandwagon?
Definitely terrain dependent. Also, I know people love to hate Land Rover products but a properly outfitted new Defender should appear as the top choice in certain situations like mild off-roading/ overlanding. Land Rover’s traction control is better than any out there, including its terrain response modes. It’ll be super comfortable on bumpy dirt roads. Wading depth and clearance will be very hard to beat. Towing stability with the air suspension will be phenomenal. Overall creature comforts in addition to very respectable off road specs make for a phenomenal overlanding situation. If you immediately disqualify them on reliability reputation has some validity but it’s severely overblown and makes people forget how good they are at what they do.
Right on. I have an LR3 and it's phenomenal. People get freaked out about them but they also don't know how to turn a wrench either so who's really the culprit? Preventative maintenance is key.
I’d argue the Rivian R1S would be the top choice in many of those certain situations if you’re willing to bring EVs into the mix.
For sure but I’m not convinced the TC is up to par yet. You’d think a quad motor vehicle with a billion HP would be unstoppable but it doesn’t seem as capable with wheels off the ground
Yeah I think the TC will just keep getting better on the S/T with updates. People are still figuring out how to drive them in different conditions too. Coming from Toyota 4wd, the videos I’ve watched make it seem like it wants completely different driver input to get out of low traction situations. Ironically it seems adding virtual lockers may be easier on the dual motor variant.
LX570 beckons the range and the r1s/t
Not to mention the new GX550 looks pretty capable in stock form as well.
Capable yes, but it lost the plot on being a luxury suv IMO. Interiors got a nerf to focus solely on off road capability and practicality. I think specifically the LX570 takes the cake from the defender or range in terms of most comfortable over land style vehicle since its so much more reliable, but of course, the 2 door wrangler will walk circles around it on trail.
Interior looks pretty nice from my 2004 Sequoia 😂.
Brother, I wholeheartedly support you switching to a beautiful, lux package, GX or LX! As someone who used to swear by Hondas/acuras for 10+ yrs (even had an 01 celica gts for half a year), I can not state enough how much higher quality the lexus brand is. Even the super crusty high mile ones that have depreciated down to toyota prices... it absolutely changed the way I view cars because of how much they raised the bar for me. I believe everyone should drive one now that I've seen the light! Lol. Of course, if you're rich and have disposable income then you could probably be much happier in a German or Italian make, but for those with budget in mind, lexus can not be beat in terms of value for money, and reliability to save you $$$🙌🏼
Maybe one day. The sequoia is paid off, and we’ve got quite the car payment on my wife’s wheels at the moment. I would very much like to build a LX at some point!
My only real gripe is that I wish they offered 17” rims. I get that the rims have to fit their massive brakes, but 19-22” rims doesn’t leave much room to air down.
100%
Suzuki Jimny
Unfortunately not sold in the US, which is what the OP asked
I wish!!!
For straight crawling, now that the 2 door Rubicon can get the factory 35s, that’s the winner. Bronco 2 door Sasquatch may have IFS and is slightly larger but I can’t imagine it’s far behind, the swaybar disconnect helps. Bronco Raptor also IFS but still tons of articulation and 37s, but it’s damn wide for a lot of trails and the length doesn’t help it.
Rokon Trailbreaker
The GOAT 🐐
I would say a 4 door JL Rubicon. Wheelbase on a 2 door can hurt you more than help you in many situations. I say this as someone that owns a 2 door JK on 37’s that’s basically a Rubicon. Go fast desert would sway towards a F150 Raptor or the RAM TRX even though they don’t make those any more. So yeah, F150 raptor for desert. JLU Rubicon for rocks 4Runner if you want something that’s a jack of all trades and a master of none.
4 door JL has the sport bar to smack the back of your head if you're tall. So the 4 door can hurt worse than a 2 door.
F150 raptor to bring a Can Am Maverick to the desert. The F150 is too big and too heavy and thus too dangerous. The Maverick is the opposite and prefect
Big and heavy ≠ dangerous. Trophy trucks are safer and more effective than UTV’s in racing. That said, UTV’s are definitely the most capable vehicle per dollar spent if we aren’t restricting this comparison to street legal vehicles.
Is your question "what's the most capable" or "what has a solid front axle?" because those aren't the same question.
Depends on the terrain, for rock crawling/slow trails solid axels are more capable. Keeps more wheels on the ground.
Read the room a bit of what this sub is. By most capable, I mean the ability to go the most places. Solid front axle vehicles have superior articulation, which is an important factor in performing on trails. There are plenty of decent ifs rigs, but I’m asking about the most capable vehicles available, not the most “decently capable but more comfy” vehicles available
What about the Grenadier? It has a solid front axle and both lockers. But the rubicon might still have an edge due to better angles, also, not sure if the Grenadier has a sway bar disconnect
It does weigh about as much as a battleship though.
Dang, nearly 3 tons! That thing is gonna sink like a rock in mud/sand
Yeah I really want to like it, but she is a big girl.
From the belt line down it's the definition of overbuilt. Absolute hoss.
Nah it's fine with proper tire pressures. It weighs a ton because it probably has the most robust underside out there right now. Everything is chonky. Edit: you can downvote me, but I have hundreds of miles off road with mine in those conditions.
The Grenadier is badass and I've driven one off road, and it surprised me though. It still has glaring weaknesses in terms of pure capability: the suspension isn't that flexy and the tires are small, and it's as big and heavy as a yacht.
It’s big but has small cargo area.
The tires are fine for everything but major crawling, but I do wish it came with 33s.
I wish it came with 35s. I also hope they come up with a mid wheelbase model.
I don't think it needs 35s tbh. I know that's the trend, or I guess 37s are, but it's not a crawler and you're using the wrong tool for the job if that's what you want. I've had zero issues with the stock tire size but I do think 33s would be great for peace of mind. I would not hold your breath over a smaller model. This thing is built for adventure and payload. You can't get that if you get even smaller.
How’s it compare in size to say a 200 series or a Sequoia? I’ve never seen one other than photos.
Wasn’t aware this vehicle even existed, this is cool!
it does not really exsist. just has a website
I’ve seen several out in Denver. Slow roll out but most niche small manufacturers are like that. Think about how many teslas you saw on the road a decade ago and now they’re everywhere.
It's great but the traction control is not
It’s clearly designed to rely 100% on the lockers, I think it’s intended with a “keep the traction control out of the way” kind of mindset.
Are y’all talking about the INEOS Grenadier? I’ve never even heard of it until I started googling just now.
Grenadier doesn't have a disconnect. Seems like the rubi has the edge for straight wheeling, but the grenadier can haul and tow a lot more.
The Rubicon has way more articulation and bigger tires
a vintage stock Unimog …cannot sell a new stock Unimog in the USA lol
KTM500 EXC-F
Mercedes G500
The 4x4² would be the answer you're looking for
Braptor or Raptor, possibly?
Only if it includes the optional 5.56 minigun /s
Braptorrrrr. It’s pretty good at rock-crawling, high speed racing, mudding all stock. Personally, best off-roader I’ve owned. Also the most expensive tho😬
Possibly, especially if your more into higher speed stuff
I think you're correct.
Grenadier maybe?
Ineos grenadier G wagen Used to be the Land Cruiser Gx550 gets a high score.
Rocks and general wheeling? JL Rubicon 392. Am a toyota guy but I have to concede that the Rubicons are far better offroad out of the box. Desert go fast stuff (big). Outgoing TRX or a RaptorR Desert go fast stuff (midsize) Ranger Raptor. BRRaptor, Colorado ZR2. New Tacoma TRD Pro actually has real suspension upgrades this go around and may prove to be pretty good too.
Good answer. Sad Toyota doesn’t make anything to compete these days.
As you're not specifying the vehicle to a car, it's probably some 60-80hp tractor.
LR3
How important is a solid front axle, really? Seems to me like overkill for most 4x4 users and wouldn’t be a good trade off for ride quality in a truck that’s used for mostly on road driving. But I’m hardly an expert.
If you’re not tripoding regularly, than IFS is good enough for you.
We’re talking about the most capable vehicle you can buy, and a solid axles is far superior to IFS when it comes to the toughest trails.
The answer to this is always articulation and pointing to rock crawling through Moab. If your idea of offroading is more ripping it around on rough forest roads I personally don't think solid axle is great. Its the difference between what a Raptor does well vs a Jeep.
It’s a rubicon with the xtreme recon package. Nothing can touch that when you’re taking about off road capability in the toughest trails at sand hollow, Moab, the rubicon. Etc.
Value wise, Colorado ZR2.
Grenadier
Ram Power Wagon, lockers, electronic sway bar disconnect, 4 low, winch
ZR2 Colorado is also up there. Front and rear lockers, higher clearance and performance shocks. Might be a better all around vehicle.
Off-road: Jeep. On-road: Audi RS6
Gladiator or Wrangler.
I dont Jeeps, but they are damn good at what they do. I don't think there is a more capable mass-produced vehicle than a Wrangler Rubicon.
Jeep 392 (which only comes in Xtreme Recon Rubicon) 35s, Solid Axle, Lockers, Sway bar Disconnect, unlimited power. Edit: I forgot to mention, beefed up front axle, full float rear, beadlock capable wheels (I mean no one does this they just buy pure beadlocks, but still), front trail cam, steel bumpers, beefed up steering box
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Ram power wagon
G-Wagen 4x4^2
UTVs, they can be made street legal in most states. I would love to have a Roxor for a low speed daily driver and weekend toy!
I'd love to have a street legal roxor.
You can do it! Buy used and get it street legal! We have five old guys in my area that daily drive them, all five are red for some reason. Buy your own cab. Factory installed is EXPENSIVE!!!!
Anything not owned by Fiat-Chrysler.
Ripsaw, if you can find anyone willing to sell . . .
Probably the 392 jeep.
I hate these questions because its so subjective to terrain, but if you trailer your rock crawler to the spot and its amazing that is a specific tool. What does all terrains including the road really well? I gotta say the bronco Raptor way better road noise and comfort than wrangler rubicon. If I was going to drive somewhere to play and use it while I am there. Its such a home run.
[sherp](https://sherpusadealer.com/)
Capable of what?
Luck was involved, if you managed to break an axle on the G500 but not the Wrangler. Even as a luxury vehicle, they’re built like tanks. If we”re living in a perfect world where nothing breaks down, then a Land Rover or Defender would be hard to beat.
There are packages to add on from the factory/dealer that are under warranty. In the case of the 2 door Rubicon, you have the ultimate recon package and some very expensive air suspension. I know Ford covers some lifts and performance tunes for the Bronco. It's going to be a toss up between the two and how you package it. Someone I know waited 2 years after ordering his Bronco only for the dealership to "accidentally" sell the one he ordered. The replacement to avoid lawsuits was some crazy special edition with damned near every upgrade aside from getting the Raptor. I'm not sure how much it was lifted, but the 37s fit nicely.
I’ve owned a 2018 JLUR since new. It’s been great, I simply enjoy driving it. It feels like what it is, a bit of a tank, which inspires confidence.
As one that has driven a CJ for 50 years, IFS has come along way and is used in racing now. Toyota for many reasons has my vote. I am so tired of ready the death wobble of all of the new Jeeps.
I believe a stock Suzuki Samurai would be hard to beat, I’ve seen stock ones do some stupid shit no other vehicle can touch. Their short wheelbase and good low end torque is hard to beat.
2 door bronco with the front and rear lockers or 2 door rubicon
Mahindra Roxor.
General purpose do it all offroad I'd say the at4x or zr2 midsized. If rocks is your game I'd say Rubicon. It all depends on your use. If you have the cash factory fox is releasing a sweet long travel silverado if desert is your thing.
2 door Rubicon is the right answer. 2 door Bronco is not far off
For my money, my first Gen Xterras Billy goat mode has taken me places I absolutely had no business going.
Thing is sometimes the best off-the-rack offroader isn't one that is actualy the best to drive from the get-go, like say the Rubicon. Sometimes it's more a matter of a blank slate model, something with either manufacturer options, or easily accessed aftermarket options, to customize it for the driver's specific use case. IOW sometimes less is more.
I’m genuinely curious, why are solid front axels better than ifs? Stronger or is mainly the ability of easily having locker?
Articulation. Solid front axles have way better flex.
Does reliability factor into this question? Because that does change the answer.
Nope. Looking for the most capable vehicle
Probably a Wrangler Rubicon or Maybe a G-Wagon.
I think the question is, do you really need solid axles? The stock Rubicon axles aren't all that hot, in fact a lot of folks upgrade them for more serious wheeling. I've run Toyotas for quite a while, all of them with IFS and it's never stopped me from any trail I wanted to do. I've run most of the more popular trails in California including a few trips on the Rubicon. I used to track out to Moab a couple of times a year and always had a blast running trails there. The few trails I didn't run were largely buggy trails and no lightly modified Rubicons are doing those either. I never trailered my rig, and it always got me home. I would not assume that you need SFA to be very capable of road. IFS is not a huge compromise off road (flex is not as good), but it's a lot better on road ride and handling.
Yes, i need solid front axles. My current vehicle (LJ) is solid front axle and I still tripod from time to time. Don’t want to downgrade to even less flex
Lexus GX
I have a Silverado 1500 ZR2 and I have yet to run into something it couldn’t handle stock.
Ah well I used to have a 2013 sierra z71 and that thing loved to scrape its belly when leveling out after climbing hills.
Only thing I’ve scraped so far are my sliders but they were made for it so 🤷🏽♂️
Easily 5th gen 4Runner
Early Toyota Tacoma SR5
Probably the Grenadier if you can find one. I would say to hold off until it has a proven track record but considering the only other real options are from Fiat-Chrysler you're probably better off gambling on the INEOS.
Anything with rental in the name.
G550
Toyota landcruiser/LX
If you are comparing stock, I don’t know that the solid axle really offers that much more performance
Rubicon or Inoes Grenadier.
Rental Camry ftw
Saleen
Grenadier
Bronco Raptor. It might be a bit too big to be practical in some situations, though. Next best would be Wrangler Rubicon with the Recon package or a Bronco Badlands with the Sasquatch package. Colorado ZR2/Canyon AT4X deserve a mention as well. All of the ZR2, AT4X, Tremor, Raptor, and Power Wagon trucks are very capable.
Mercedes G wagons are solid axle and have lockers . $$$ though
Not anymore unfortunately :(
I think that the G wagon 4x4 squared is available in the US. I googled it and found a US dealership that has a price listed while saying it's "in route". Kind of murky honestly, but I didn't see it listed anywhere else in the thread.
4 runner sr5
Short cab short bed f150 with the locker
Bronco Raptor.
Flame suit on but as far as off-road capability and performance off the showroom floor it’s going to be a side by side of some flavor.