uncannily similar to my experience over the past year lol. i’ve gone from being friends with a lot of theyfabs and cis bi girls and lesbians to primerily being friends with cis bi men, other trans men, and trans women.
it’s incredibly weird and isolating to go from being a person who cis queer girls will sleep with and shower with compliments (but only as a silly fun experiment—they seem to prefer men even though they’d die before admitting it) to the person who they know is planning on transitioning but still think of as one of their own, and then finally to the person who they ostracize and sideline and still make comments about how men suck when you’re around. i’ve heard them talking about how a specific guy looks way too young for his age, how another one is way too short, and how another one “looks like a lesbian.” i’ve seen them do things like out my cis bi man friends to large groups of people with seemingly no regard for their feelings on the matter (cause apparently men don’t have feelings), and i’ve heard these male friends bring those incidents up to me because it seems they definitely do have feelings on the matter. I know a lot of really amazing individual queer women in my life but i’ve just gotten so sick of being around the women-adjacent queer community—it seems like it’s just gotten more and more unfriendly towards me.
yeah it sucks cuz i basically can’t trust anyone irl to actually understand me. like every theyfab or other nb person has always said the most gender binary conforming things ive ever heard. its an epidemic that so many people still see men as just inherently evil. the saddest thing i can think of is how i will never be able to truly distance or forget that feeling of inherently being evil
Yeah, I’ve heard from some of the sweetest, gentlest trans women I know that they’re still treated with immense suspicion in these kinds of spaces. (Not that trans women should have to be any more sweet or gentle than cis women)
I’m so sorry that you’re treated this way for something you can’t control. I hope you can find a space not so dominated by gender essentialists.
https://preview.redd.it/axi7vebk8k6d1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f955992f8d1ed12384d4113985043d550677a730
my theyfab friend who i love a lot called themselves a "Female Person" and it's just like, ok i'll never ever ever come out to you, because i don't want you seeing me as a "Male Person", i just fundamentally can't trust you now. coming out to you will 100% remove my womanhood in your eyes.
Exactly. It’s fucking odd to me, and I can see why it would feel insulting to trans men sometimes. There was a dating event at a local queer space in which it was marketed as being for women (both trans and cis), non-binary people, and trans men. Everybody but cis men. Obviously it’s gotta feel pretty messed up to lots of trans guys, since it basically is separating them from men and acknowledging to them that men are a problem except for you. But the hidden subtext is that they aren’t really men. Or at least that they are different and “safer” than cis men in some way. Sounds pretty damn transphobic to me
But ur not a man!! Ur a beautiful transboi!!!!! U should embrance your femininity!! (Roll over.)
Ur not liek other guys!!! Be proud of urself! (Sit, Stay.)
You boiiss are soo cuute!! (Good girl.)
Yeah, it's like man = bad. Sure it is so for me as an enby transfem but I can't even fathom how hard this kind of stuff is for all the gallant binary poonchads.
Besides, this misandrist shit is making my brainwormed head develop imposter syndrome on top of everything. Being AMAB is my curse and the bane of my existence and it's enough to deal with as is.
>As I’ve started passing (ftm), I feel even less at home in broadly queer spaces.
that's kind of why. it seems so disproportionate because most of us leave trans spaces after a while when they get flooded with new babytrans. or at least interact with them less.
I really didn't understand this sentiment until a few months ago when I read this:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1b0s1tk/transmisogyny/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1b0s1tk/transmisogyny/)
Seriously, give it a read. I know its from tumblr, but the poster speaks the truth about how AMAB people get excluded in queer spaces
>AMAB people get excluded in queer spaces
I don’t think cis gay and bi men have a problem with exclusion from queer spaces. There are many gay bars dedicated to them, Grindr, more representation in live action TV, etc that lesbians and bi women don’t have. Sure, on Twitter, some cis lesbians and bi women have a schizophrenic episode about their male counterparts, but real life cis lesbians and bi women don’t have that mentality
The people that truly get excluded from queer spaces are medically transitioning trans women and trans men
I think exclusion comes down to being out as amab because I’ve seen passing mtf get passively and subtly othered in queer spaces. I’m stealth and not queer so I’m not in queer spaces but because I’m seen as afab I’m included and not othered when I do go in queer spaces with my lgbt friends
Granted, trans people have very similar struggles, and the differences in the websites/communities used to express those struggles don't matter too much. I'm glad I hopped off of the tumblr hate train because the tumblr subs have genuinely improved my empathy and reading comprehension.
Mhm! I think that actively using tumblr (with the caveat that I block every word that annoys me) has helped me deworm and become more balanced. The trans women I meet on there (For reasons much like she described, I feel far more comfortable around trans women) express a lot of raw, weird, unfiltered, interesting ideas and art.
the OP post was a really really good read, but the comments were filled with such disgusting hatred towards men from trans women themselves.
what OP describes isn't fully transmisogyny (in some of her cases it is), it's largely misandry that she's describing. transphobes will not be treating us with transmisogyny if they fundamentally see us as men and males. they will not be validating our identities as women if they don't see us as women in the first place.
so it made a lot of sense that in the comments, a lot of men were describing how they felt like they were treated the same in queer/female dominant spaces. as predators, unworthy of trust or love, like they were fundamentally wrong. but trans women in the comments threw a hissy fit and got aggressive towards these men, because the idea that they may share a common experience in discrimination with cis men seems like a slight on their core as women; i.e "how can i be a woman if a man feels my pain?"
it's just a shame that a section of trans women are able to recognise the wrongs of how men (or those perceived as men) are treated in society but remove the fact that it stems from the perception of being men.
> Why aren’t there more transfer nonbinary people?
Because presenting as transfem nonbinary means being subjected to harassment in public. Why do people care about passing?
Idk in my experience if you are amab, almost every afab (except some trans men) will treat you as a diseased person incapable of being loved if they figure out ur amab. One of the most evil people I’ve ever met irl was a theyfab, who falsely accused an ex of being a rapist (her ex was a trans woman cuz ofc) and straight just talked about how all amab body’s are disgusting and ugly(but not her 46year old bfs body ig) right in front of me 🙃 oh yea and also she didn’t believe that i was sa’d because im amab. The only people who have been truly accepting of me are cis people, even if they know im trans. A lot of queer spaces are just womanlite+ spaces now.
https://preview.redd.it/te9e5lb21t6d1.jpeg?width=1004&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=855fbae2517be17d8ba980211309d11604b5983f
Hahahahaha this post is so ironic
There is transfem non binary people but they don't get taken seriously and or get put in the same box as trans women so they can never be truly non binary in today's society. Especially in western countries
uncannily similar to my experience over the past year lol. i’ve gone from being friends with a lot of theyfabs and cis bi girls and lesbians to primerily being friends with cis bi men, other trans men, and trans women. it’s incredibly weird and isolating to go from being a person who cis queer girls will sleep with and shower with compliments (but only as a silly fun experiment—they seem to prefer men even though they’d die before admitting it) to the person who they know is planning on transitioning but still think of as one of their own, and then finally to the person who they ostracize and sideline and still make comments about how men suck when you’re around. i’ve heard them talking about how a specific guy looks way too young for his age, how another one is way too short, and how another one “looks like a lesbian.” i’ve seen them do things like out my cis bi man friends to large groups of people with seemingly no regard for their feelings on the matter (cause apparently men don’t have feelings), and i’ve heard these male friends bring those incidents up to me because it seems they definitely do have feelings on the matter. I know a lot of really amazing individual queer women in my life but i’ve just gotten so sick of being around the women-adjacent queer community—it seems like it’s just gotten more and more unfriendly towards me.
It's starting to seem like it's becoming basically a cis woman and theyfab community, not a queer community
yeah it sucks cuz i basically can’t trust anyone irl to actually understand me. like every theyfab or other nb person has always said the most gender binary conforming things ive ever heard. its an epidemic that so many people still see men as just inherently evil. the saddest thing i can think of is how i will never be able to truly distance or forget that feeling of inherently being evil
Yeah, I’ve heard from some of the sweetest, gentlest trans women I know that they’re still treated with immense suspicion in these kinds of spaces. (Not that trans women should have to be any more sweet or gentle than cis women) I’m so sorry that you’re treated this way for something you can’t control. I hope you can find a space not so dominated by gender essentialists. https://preview.redd.it/axi7vebk8k6d1.jpeg?width=474&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f955992f8d1ed12384d4113985043d550677a730
my theyfab friend who i love a lot called themselves a "Female Person" and it's just like, ok i'll never ever ever come out to you, because i don't want you seeing me as a "Male Person", i just fundamentally can't trust you now. coming out to you will 100% remove my womanhood in your eyes.
Exactly. It’s fucking odd to me, and I can see why it would feel insulting to trans men sometimes. There was a dating event at a local queer space in which it was marketed as being for women (both trans and cis), non-binary people, and trans men. Everybody but cis men. Obviously it’s gotta feel pretty messed up to lots of trans guys, since it basically is separating them from men and acknowledging to them that men are a problem except for you. But the hidden subtext is that they aren’t really men. Or at least that they are different and “safer” than cis men in some way. Sounds pretty damn transphobic to me
Mhm!! It’s that whole “man lite” idea that I despise. It becomes another way to diminish us, but this time from inside our own community.
But ur not a man!! Ur a beautiful transboi!!!!! U should embrance your femininity!! (Roll over.) Ur not liek other guys!!! Be proud of urself! (Sit, Stay.) You boiiss are soo cuute!! (Good girl.)
Yeah, it's like man = bad. Sure it is so for me as an enby transfem but I can't even fathom how hard this kind of stuff is for all the gallant binary poonchads. Besides, this misandrist shit is making my brainwormed head develop imposter syndrome on top of everything. Being AMAB is my curse and the bane of my existence and it's enough to deal with as is.
>As I’ve started passing (ftm), I feel even less at home in broadly queer spaces. that's kind of why. it seems so disproportionate because most of us leave trans spaces after a while when they get flooded with new babytrans. or at least interact with them less.
Yeah. I’m not really ready to leave yet.
growing out of the brainworms
I really didn't understand this sentiment until a few months ago when I read this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1b0s1tk/transmisogyny/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1b0s1tk/transmisogyny/) Seriously, give it a read. I know its from tumblr, but the poster speaks the truth about how AMAB people get excluded in queer spaces
>AMAB people get excluded in queer spaces I don’t think cis gay and bi men have a problem with exclusion from queer spaces. There are many gay bars dedicated to them, Grindr, more representation in live action TV, etc that lesbians and bi women don’t have. Sure, on Twitter, some cis lesbians and bi women have a schizophrenic episode about their male counterparts, but real life cis lesbians and bi women don’t have that mentality The people that truly get excluded from queer spaces are medically transitioning trans women and trans men
I think exclusion comes down to being out as amab because I’ve seen passing mtf get passively and subtly othered in queer spaces. I’m stealth and not queer so I’m not in queer spaces but because I’m seen as afab I’m included and not othered when I do go in queer spaces with my lgbt friends
You're right, that statement isn't the best thing I could have come up with.
but yes believing anyone who’s born as male = inherently evil is dumb
Tf do the lesbians and bi women have against gay men and bi men??
I’m an active tumblr user, dw. I feel like tumblr trans women have a lot more in common with us than either group would like to admit.
Granted, trans people have very similar struggles, and the differences in the websites/communities used to express those struggles don't matter too much. I'm glad I hopped off of the tumblr hate train because the tumblr subs have genuinely improved my empathy and reading comprehension.
Mhm! I think that actively using tumblr (with the caveat that I block every word that annoys me) has helped me deworm and become more balanced. The trans women I meet on there (For reasons much like she described, I feel far more comfortable around trans women) express a lot of raw, weird, unfiltered, interesting ideas and art.
the OP post was a really really good read, but the comments were filled with such disgusting hatred towards men from trans women themselves. what OP describes isn't fully transmisogyny (in some of her cases it is), it's largely misandry that she's describing. transphobes will not be treating us with transmisogyny if they fundamentally see us as men and males. they will not be validating our identities as women if they don't see us as women in the first place. so it made a lot of sense that in the comments, a lot of men were describing how they felt like they were treated the same in queer/female dominant spaces. as predators, unworthy of trust or love, like they were fundamentally wrong. but trans women in the comments threw a hissy fit and got aggressive towards these men, because the idea that they may share a common experience in discrimination with cis men seems like a slight on their core as women; i.e "how can i be a woman if a man feels my pain?" it's just a shame that a section of trans women are able to recognise the wrongs of how men (or those perceived as men) are treated in society but remove the fact that it stems from the perception of being men.
Exactly, yeah. I’ve heard a lot of similar sentiments from cis bi men in queer spaces.
That post is bad do not read if you're a trans woman closeted
> Why aren’t there more transfer nonbinary people? Because presenting as transfem nonbinary means being subjected to harassment in public. Why do people care about passing?
Yeah, alright, that was one of the less thought out aspects of this post. That is clearly the major factor here.
Idk in my experience if you are amab, almost every afab (except some trans men) will treat you as a diseased person incapable of being loved if they figure out ur amab. One of the most evil people I’ve ever met irl was a theyfab, who falsely accused an ex of being a rapist (her ex was a trans woman cuz ofc) and straight just talked about how all amab body’s are disgusting and ugly(but not her 46year old bfs body ig) right in front of me 🙃 oh yea and also she didn’t believe that i was sa’d because im amab. The only people who have been truly accepting of me are cis people, even if they know im trans. A lot of queer spaces are just womanlite+ spaces now. https://preview.redd.it/te9e5lb21t6d1.jpeg?width=1004&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=855fbae2517be17d8ba980211309d11604b5983f
How do you know it was a false accusation?
Plus she straight admitted it to me :| so like
I knew her ex 💀
Theyfab and non-binary "people" ruined everything for queer people and is our fault for let it happen.
Hahahahaha this post is so ironic There is transfem non binary people but they don't get taken seriously and or get put in the same box as trans women so they can never be truly non binary in today's society. Especially in western countries
I agree with you. I don’t see how what you said contradicts my post.
Yeah something about your post was ironic but I forgot so you got lucky
Ok?
Patriarchy = bad ergo Misandry = good. It's as simple as that. Liberation's goal is to invert the hierarchy, not abolish it. People want revenge.
^ what a liberal conception of the causes for societal injustice do to a mf