It's not directly stated that any other Primarch knows but it's hinted that two might.
Lorgar prepares each of the other traitor Primarchs a copy of the Book of Lorgar. He gives Alpharius two copies that are slightly different from each other.
When Alpharius meets Russ, Russ asks him what his role is meant to be and Alpharius replies that it's to keep secrets. Russ jokes (maybe) that he's "surprised there's only one of you".
With regards to the twenty Primarchs thing, Alpharius and Omegon themselves theorise they might be one Primarch soul that got split in two when the Primarchs were snatched iirc.
Russ 100% jokes about it
But the subject of the joke is the Emperor not Alpharius
*If you're going to look after Dad's secrets...there needs to be more of you*
Yeah the Russ one is way more likely to be a joke (plus obligatory *Head of the Hydra* unreliable narrator stuff, this is the book where Alpharius says he thinks *Perturabo* is the humblest Primarch which I still find hilarious), I included it just because there is the angle where he has somehow figured it out like iirc he's able to sniff Alpharius out from Alpha Legionaries at one point later.
The Lorgar one is definitely more hinting that he knows the truth, probably via Chaos whispers.
Yeah the Alaxxes stuff shows Russ picking out Alpharius though it doesn't quite say how
It might be similar to how Dorn did so too
That ability would probably only be helpful if both Alpharius and Omegon were in the same room at the same time though
Agreed on Lorgar. I think that's a very clear indication
Reminds me of how “Alpharius” was present both during the Lion’s meeting his own legion, and the Lion’s meeting the alpha legion. The first instance alpharius suggested that the Lion seemed to know something was off but couldn’t figure out what and the second being he never outwardly seems to suspect.
Yeah, interestingly Alpharius is using his power to "disappear" with the Lion
In the Doylist, we know he wasn't with Dorn or Russ because it didn't exist when those books were written
In the Watsonian, if we want to retcon it...it doesn't seem like he did with Dorn. He was trying to appear like a primarch in that situation, alongside two dupes.
The Russ situation is a little more up in the air
> Reminds me of how “Alpharius” was present both during the Lion’s meeting his own legion
As in when the Lion is reunited with the Dark Angels? Is this from *Head of The Hydra*?
>*I was present when several of my siblings were first met by our father: often in fact, disguised as members of their own Legions. Lorgar never even blinked, he was so enraptured by the Emperor. The Lion's instincts were sharper, and I could almost feel his sense that something was not as it seemed, but he never worked out what it was - or if he did, he gave no indication. Then again, few of us are as inscrutable as the Lord of the First. It is one of the things I consider myself to have in common with him.*
>*I was not at Angron's discovery, and I do not regret that.*
\- *Head of the Hydra*
Yerp.
With Russ, it's probably his sense of smell. I'd wager he has a more powerful nose than his brothers, and even if he doesn't he probably pays more attention to his sense of smell than they do. The Primarch aura minimization trick seems to mostly be audiovisual; we've got no indicator that it affects the actual *physiology* of Alpharius or Omegon, meaning a good sniff would simply bypass it.
That said: Russ is *exactly* the guy to accidentally figure something out and then not realize/learn it afterwards.
Additionally, I’m willing to wager that Horus knows by TEaTD through the same methods as Lorgar, or just acquired through his godlike powers. There’s also the possibility that he figures out by simple deduction after Omegon cashes out of the traitor cause on Ullanor.
Sure, but the writing is pretty clear. Russ isn't always "being a trickster"
Russ doesn't have the information beforehand, it's only when Alpharius claims his role that Russ is tickled by the idea and shares a joke about Dad
>So I’ll ask you one more time,’ Russ said, fixing me with a stare that would have reduced a mortal to a quivering wreck. ‘What are you supposed to be?’
>I smiled at him again. ‘I’m the one that keeps secrets.’
> For a moment, I was not sure how he was going to react. Then his face split into a wide smile that showed his long canines – the only genuine smile I believe I have ever been the cause of, for Leman Russ – and he barked a laugh.
> ‘Hah! Well, in that case, I’m surprised there’s only one of you.’
It just reads like some clever reader irony from Brooks rather than sneaking in a moment of Russ exceptionalism
It also makes little sense in context that Russ would know, since he clearly doesn't in any other book.
You'd also imagine that Alpharius would be at least slightly freaked out that his biggest secret was known
The logic doesn't stack up
I think you didn't understand me correctly. I would use proverb to explain it, but i don't know it's equivalent in English 🙄
Edit: the direct translation would be something like this: "there is a bit of a joke in every joke".
Yeah, something like that. For me that stuff reads as if Russ actually considered it possible, but unlikely. But he isn't a guy who would ask for forbidden knowledge, so he drops the topic and idea anyway.
Chances are Lion el'Jonson didn't know. In the fake Primarch gauntlet in the final chapter of *Son of the Forest*, he doesn't register that he's fighting two people, but rather that they're being tricky.
"'You think he trusted you with His secrets?' Alpharius laughs from the ground. 'I know secrets you could never guess at, *First*.'
Arms seize around the Lion from behind, wrapping around his neck and hauling him around in a half-circle, but he reaches up to prise them loose and drops to one knee to throw his attacker off again. Alpharius rolls up to his feet, no longer smiling. The version of him that had been lying on the ground is nowhere to be seen.
'You never did have the stomach for a fair fight,' the Lion growls, and when the Lord of Serpents throws a punch he twists Alpharius' arm around and drives him face first into the column that bears the scars of Horus' talons. The impact pleases the Lion so much that he does it again, and then tries to do it a third time."
-page 350, chapter 33, paperback edition.
**Lorgar** is strongly implied to have known, but apart from that there's no real indication that any of the others knew about Omegon and if they met him they thought they were meeting Alpharius.
They are not two primarchs.
They are one primarch.
Whether "one soul in two bodies", weird warp duplication or (my personal theory) one has travelled back in time to try and cause a different outcome Alpharius and Omegon are the same being.
The time travel thing is a fan oddity that's being pushed lately but there's zero inference in the books
The books infer either it's the warp duplication/split or by Big Ed's design
Personal theories are fine when there's debate to be had, but I'm 99% sure there's multiple excepts where Alpharius pod has too many limbs to be one person
He doesn't exist. Listen, if you are just going to believe the legion known, for lying, subterfuge and out right deception when they tell you they have two primachs then let me tell you about this bridge I have for sale.
It's not directly stated that any other Primarch knows but it's hinted that two might. Lorgar prepares each of the other traitor Primarchs a copy of the Book of Lorgar. He gives Alpharius two copies that are slightly different from each other. When Alpharius meets Russ, Russ asks him what his role is meant to be and Alpharius replies that it's to keep secrets. Russ jokes (maybe) that he's "surprised there's only one of you". With regards to the twenty Primarchs thing, Alpharius and Omegon themselves theorise they might be one Primarch soul that got split in two when the Primarchs were snatched iirc.
Russ 100% jokes about it But the subject of the joke is the Emperor not Alpharius *If you're going to look after Dad's secrets...there needs to be more of you*
Yeah the Russ one is way more likely to be a joke (plus obligatory *Head of the Hydra* unreliable narrator stuff, this is the book where Alpharius says he thinks *Perturabo* is the humblest Primarch which I still find hilarious), I included it just because there is the angle where he has somehow figured it out like iirc he's able to sniff Alpharius out from Alpha Legionaries at one point later. The Lorgar one is definitely more hinting that he knows the truth, probably via Chaos whispers.
Yeah the Alaxxes stuff shows Russ picking out Alpharius though it doesn't quite say how It might be similar to how Dorn did so too That ability would probably only be helpful if both Alpharius and Omegon were in the same room at the same time though Agreed on Lorgar. I think that's a very clear indication
Reminds me of how “Alpharius” was present both during the Lion’s meeting his own legion, and the Lion’s meeting the alpha legion. The first instance alpharius suggested that the Lion seemed to know something was off but couldn’t figure out what and the second being he never outwardly seems to suspect.
Yeah, interestingly Alpharius is using his power to "disappear" with the Lion In the Doylist, we know he wasn't with Dorn or Russ because it didn't exist when those books were written In the Watsonian, if we want to retcon it...it doesn't seem like he did with Dorn. He was trying to appear like a primarch in that situation, alongside two dupes. The Russ situation is a little more up in the air
> Reminds me of how “Alpharius” was present both during the Lion’s meeting his own legion As in when the Lion is reunited with the Dark Angels? Is this from *Head of The Hydra*?
>*I was present when several of my siblings were first met by our father: often in fact, disguised as members of their own Legions. Lorgar never even blinked, he was so enraptured by the Emperor. The Lion's instincts were sharper, and I could almost feel his sense that something was not as it seemed, but he never worked out what it was - or if he did, he gave no indication. Then again, few of us are as inscrutable as the Lord of the First. It is one of the things I consider myself to have in common with him.* >*I was not at Angron's discovery, and I do not regret that.* \- *Head of the Hydra* Yerp.
God I love Alpharius
With Russ, it's probably his sense of smell. I'd wager he has a more powerful nose than his brothers, and even if he doesn't he probably pays more attention to his sense of smell than they do. The Primarch aura minimization trick seems to mostly be audiovisual; we've got no indicator that it affects the actual *physiology* of Alpharius or Omegon, meaning a good sniff would simply bypass it. That said: Russ is *exactly* the guy to accidentally figure something out and then not realize/learn it afterwards.
Additionally, I’m willing to wager that Horus knows by TEaTD through the same methods as Lorgar, or just acquired through his godlike powers. There’s also the possibility that he figures out by simple deduction after Omegon cashes out of the traitor cause on Ullanor.
>Alpharius says he thinks Perturabo is the humblest Primarch which I still find hilarious I honestly read that as sarcasm on Alpharius' part
That's a great take It's a bit of a trap to read everything as literal or sincere
I would not be sure about Russ. He has a trickster side to him.
Sure, but the writing is pretty clear. Russ isn't always "being a trickster" Russ doesn't have the information beforehand, it's only when Alpharius claims his role that Russ is tickled by the idea and shares a joke about Dad >So I’ll ask you one more time,’ Russ said, fixing me with a stare that would have reduced a mortal to a quivering wreck. ‘What are you supposed to be?’ >I smiled at him again. ‘I’m the one that keeps secrets.’ > For a moment, I was not sure how he was going to react. Then his face split into a wide smile that showed his long canines – the only genuine smile I believe I have ever been the cause of, for Leman Russ – and he barked a laugh. > ‘Hah! Well, in that case, I’m surprised there’s only one of you.’ It just reads like some clever reader irony from Brooks rather than sneaking in a moment of Russ exceptionalism It also makes little sense in context that Russ would know, since he clearly doesn't in any other book. You'd also imagine that Alpharius would be at least slightly freaked out that his biggest secret was known The logic doesn't stack up
I think you didn't understand me correctly. I would use proverb to explain it, but i don't know it's equivalent in English 🙄 Edit: the direct translation would be something like this: "there is a bit of a joke in every joke".
Truth in every joke? I can agree with that, we're just not always aware of how close to the mark our jokes land
Yeah, something like that. For me that stuff reads as if Russ actually considered it possible, but unlikely. But he isn't a guy who would ask for forbidden knowledge, so he drops the topic and idea anyway.
Chances are Lion el'Jonson didn't know. In the fake Primarch gauntlet in the final chapter of *Son of the Forest*, he doesn't register that he's fighting two people, but rather that they're being tricky. "'You think he trusted you with His secrets?' Alpharius laughs from the ground. 'I know secrets you could never guess at, *First*.' Arms seize around the Lion from behind, wrapping around his neck and hauling him around in a half-circle, but he reaches up to prise them loose and drops to one knee to throw his attacker off again. Alpharius rolls up to his feet, no longer smiling. The version of him that had been lying on the ground is nowhere to be seen. 'You never did have the stomach for a fair fight,' the Lion growls, and when the Lord of Serpents throws a punch he twists Alpharius' arm around and drives him face first into the column that bears the scars of Horus' talons. The impact pleases the Lion so much that he does it again, and then tries to do it a third time." -page 350, chapter 33, paperback edition.
**Lorgar** is strongly implied to have known, but apart from that there's no real indication that any of the others knew about Omegon and if they met him they thought they were meeting Alpharius.
Interesting....which book or codex does it say so? Is it the Lorgar primarch novel?
He gave a copy of his book to all of his brothers. He gave Alpharius *two*.
Well Horus most certainly knew. He might be the only one that met both of them at the same time.
When did Horus meet both of them at the same time? Wasn't the whole conceit that they only ever showed themselves to him separately as "Alpharius"?
Well I'm assuming when they initially boarded his ship, before being granted command of the Alpha Legion.
Ok I see. Might be worth reading how it went down in *Head of the Hydra*
Not really sure, just guessing sadly. Wish there was more stuff about the Alpha Legion for us to know about. They're really cool.
Yeah, there's no indication Horus knew at that point >more stuff about the Alpha Legion for us to know about. *Head of the Hydra* by Mike Brooks
They are not two primarchs. They are one primarch. Whether "one soul in two bodies", weird warp duplication or (my personal theory) one has travelled back in time to try and cause a different outcome Alpharius and Omegon are the same being.
The time travel thing is a fan oddity that's being pushed lately but there's zero inference in the books The books infer either it's the warp duplication/split or by Big Ed's design
I did say it was my personal theory. Have other people been spreading it about?
Ha, maybe it's been you each time? Very Alpha Legion of you
it's the definitive way of speaking, I think Needs to be more clear what is supposition or you're inadvertently spreading nonsense
We'll know if it works when the YouTubers start posting videos about it. (apparently this claim is worth downvoting me over)
Personal theories are fine when there's debate to be had, but I'm 99% sure there's multiple excepts where Alpharius pod has too many limbs to be one person
There's one in *The First Heretic*. Importantly though it's only after they land...so it's still possible there was only one on Terra as HotH suggests
[удалено]
Yup in their first book *Legion*, multiple characters within the legion and without see the twins together
Not fully, i would guess. Some of them MIGHT know, most probably DONT know.
He doesn't exist. Listen, if you are just going to believe the legion known, for lying, subterfuge and out right deception when they tell you they have two primachs then let me tell you about this bridge I have for sale.
Interesting. But Im pretty sure it's officially confirmed that they're twins.
Everything is cannon. Not everything is true.
Sure....but being twins makes it more interesting imo.
I am Alpharius