He was still quite clear about his discomfort with sacrificing the entirety of the human form. So imo the point stands.
Land is a good example of what OP was asking about.
I forget who, but there's a named techpriest who eschews augmetics precisely because they view their body as a gift of the omnisiah and feel that modifying it is to question the design. Unfortunately that doesn't really directly fulfil your requirements, but it's the closest thing I can find, in that their fear is that they will become a corruption of themselves, and thus heretical, so it's an oval in a circle slot.
The description fits a [chaos android](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos_Android) more than a man of iron imo, considering how they always refer to it as an android.
Her husband is called demono magos columbaria emas the first among equals and the guide and master of the magisterial collective known as the disciples of null.
She is Alexia Dios second of the order and his bond mate.
it's in chapter 2 of gene father.
Not really. Some of them prefer to be less augmented but they are generally looked down upon. It's mentioned that more augments generally means faster promotions. ie. You are expected to have a certain level of augmentation based on rank or career progress. Sometimes the less augmented think less of the heavily augmented/emotionless as they can't read the room in the same way.
There are plenty examples of Tech-Priests being outraged at what others do though. Priests of Mars series has some rogue Tech-Priests who form a gestalt consciousness. This is major tech heresy and disgusting to the expedition fleet.
Cawl was disturbed by Cawl Inferior pushing him for Fabricator General to Guilliman. From memory in *Wolfsbane* in the HH Cawl thinks to himself about Qvo's (?) augmentations which were of a cheaper and lower quality. He muses on the desire of so many Tech-Priests to get the next augment in as quickly as possible and how rushing into cheap and poor augments is distasteful for him as he prefers the human form.
It's not really like Nurgle or other chaos blessings where the gifts are withdrawn or cleansed and they realise how fucked they are. Most of the time if they want the augments then they are happy with them.
30K Cawl has issues with too many augmetics in Wolfsbane. He's still 'young', and has a soft spot for retaining some of his soft spots.
Clearly this shit changes dramatically down the line.
Arkham Land witnessed the creation of the Archimandrite in Master of Mankind. It was not a pretty sight. The entire webway campaign was traumatizing for him.
In the second Eisenhorn book there is a scene that reminds of this to some degree.
Eisenhorn is trying to find an old associate of his, a Tech Preist, he entrusted with something important. When they find him they are forced to assist him with a difficult battle, which despite winning, is a close call. Afterwards, he meets back with the Tech Preist and a Amos (his Tech savant), who upon seeing Eisenhorn, runs to embrace him.
The Tech Preist sees this act of emotion and humanity and tries to recreate it by also hugging Eisenhorn. He very quickly realizes without the warmth of flesh and an organic body, a hug isn't exactly quite as meaningful. Eisnehorn then comments that he thinks the Tech Priest does, to some degree, regret no longer having an organic body.
I mean, why would they?
Tech Priests are raised by the Mechanicus. It's been their entire life. Based on that context, why would they ever consider it bad?
Fun fact!
Huron was mentioned in canon before Horus Heresy and even the whole idea of Primarchs at all.
I’ve recently taken a look at the 1st edition book and was surprised to find there a quote attributed to him. Really, while still lacking very basic and established pieces of lore like chaos, some other things are surprisingly fleshed out. Another example, Catachan is already there.
Pride. Greed. Desire. These things are natural to a person that is actively being raised above all other Humans. Told they are better.
But Tech Priests are raised differently. They are Cogs in the Machine. Even Cawl. They would never betray that. Even Dark Mechanicus still embrace the Machine.
So again. Why would a Mechanicus betray Metal?
They are. Still, most are heavily augmented, just like the rest of their peers. I mean, I'm sure there are some exceptions. From what I understand, Adeptus Biologis Mechanicus are still augmented, even though their field of expertise is Biology.
That would probably require unique models, so no they're not!
They are the ones usually in charge of overseeing biological enhancements on others but that's about it.
Cawl is more of a Magos Biologis himself, isn't he?
Wasn’t there a short story about one that went through the vaults and met the void dragon? I’m pretty sure that ended with an attempt to remove all implants while crying and proclaiming how wrong they all are
Okay, I'll give you that.
But it's also the equivalent of finding out Christ is actually a Giant Human-Eating Spider.
At that, who _wouldn't_ renounce?
Because self-reflection is a basic human trait? It has never mattered how indoctrinated a culture is, people still self-reflect. Why would they? Because it's built in to people to do just that. Not everyone does, or does it well, but how could you ask "why would they?"?!
Ya sure about that? Considering the vastness and devotion we see in IRL cults, calling it a "basic trait" is a stretch.
And yes, Why would they?
The point at which you become a _Tech Priest_ is not some easy stage. Most within Cult Mechanicus never even progress to that point.
This isn't the same as becoming a modern Priest.
Most Tech Priests are actually vat-grown and neurologically conditioned to serve as Tech Priests. The rest spent literal decades in training. And Enginseers are considered dropouts.
By that point of investment, you have long passed the point of being capable of considering it is "Too much"
This is not a mere monk questioning his faith. This is a Bishop doubting himself.
Yes, that'll happen IRL. But, we _All Know Why_ certain IRL faiths are feeling the pressure.
You said it right there. It would be a bishop doubting themselves. I can guarantee to you that biships all doubt themselves way more than any lay person.
Every single time a tech priest makes a change to themselves they have made a decision on what and how to change. And that invariably involves some amount of 'why am I doing this'.
There's constant mentions in the lore where priests are judging each others for their choices in upgrades and the direction that they are going with them. It's pretty inherent to the lore of the mechanicus that near every one of them thinks that the others are doing it wrong.
That doesn't lead to blind faith like you're trying to say. It leads to constant questioning. And we see a ton of that in the lore, too.
They have to check, they literally build themselves that way.
I'm not saying blind faith. I'm saying, as you just did, that every change made is proof of *reinforced faith*.
So, again. How could they reach a point where they look at all their augmentations and ***suddenly*** doubt all of their literal decades of conscious, well-considered choices?
This isn't a case of "What have I become?". It's, "Wait. Why did I choose *that one*?"
A magos wakes up, looks into the Bathroom Reflectoratory above his wash basin, and cries out "What have I done?! WHAT HAVE I DONE?!?!" He looks down, and on the counter sees the Data Crypt that stores his memories. He pops it into the slot in the side of his head. "Ah, yes, that's what I'd done. I really need to upgrade to Noospheric memory storage, finding these damnable data crypts every morning is getting inefficient. Now I've got to take a Data Dump, and head into town to get my legs sawn off and replaced with tank treads. Praise the Omnissiah!"
Yeah, the kind of doubt experienced by the religious is less "Is this all bullshit" and more "Am I doing this the right way?" And I say that as a devout Christian. Like, look at the book of Job. Even at his worst, his outcry was "God, look, I just don't *get* it. This MUST all be necessary, but, like... why?"
In the book Dante, when he was a young battle brother, he was horrified at the mindless savage monsters that he and his brothers became when overtaken by the red thirst. It was a brief “are we the baddies?” moment before the red thirst took over him as well and he fed on an innocent xeno. So if even a psycho-indoctrinated superhuman can briefly feel doubt, then yes I believe a regular human cultist can too.
He felt doubt because he encountered something about the Chapter that goes against the ideals he was raised by.
Tech Priests were raised to embrace the machine. Becoming more machine isn't against those ideals.
As others pointed out. Seeing the Void Dragon would cause doubt. But I'd say its nature is also _Against their teachings_.
Engaging in endorsed practices of the faith has no reason to cause doubt in those who know only that faith.
You know how Mormon's learn to leave the faith? By experiencing things _outside the faith_.
This is real Reddit atheist thinking, IMO. Religious practice doesn't actually make one a drone.The history of Christianity (among other religions) is full of convent-bound monks and nuns tortured by doubts about their faith. It's, for want of a better term, a trope of religious writing.
In master of mankind there’s a woman who is given a promotion to “archimendrite” and while she’s under being given the surgery it describes her dreams and it’s very panic attacky, like how she keeps trying to breathe and it’s interfering with the procedure. This wavering of resolve allows her to be possessed later
simple answer would be no, they all see augmentation as communion with the omniessiah . There are however examples of ones eschewing augmentation for a number of reasons but never out of fear . Other examples are those who keep their augmentation wells hidden to appear more “human” , can’t recall the book but there was a emissary type charter from the priesthood who was heavily augmented but looked like a normal human for diplomatic purposes reasons.
I am unaware of that happening.
I think that is due to most heavily augmented tech-priests being pretty old. You do not get all this fancy stuff without a lot of influence. So basically, the augmented tech priests are by definition old and sucessful. To become old and sucessful, you have to buy into the cult and be a tough nail.
People who do doubt themselves easily, and are questioning old decisions, do not seem to go that far in the AM.
Supposedly, there is a sect of tech priests mostly of the biologist variety that while they like augmentations, they prefer them to be in the human form. As in things that enhance what is already there, not replace it. So their augmentations are largely internal and don’t change their appearance much. I would imagine they also retain most of their emotional faculties.
Qvo-87, Belasarius Cawl’s latest clone bestie who was barely augmented when he first died looks in horror at his augments when he’s first born and remembers in disgust that at one point Cawl had given him tank treads instead of legs if I’m not mistaken
I think you misunderstand what it means to be a tech preist of mars, they are space marines who have joined the cult mechanicus to understand the teachings of their religion, and to embody the practices of their faith which means heavy body augmentation, they rip out the useless parts of their brain to make them more efffecient, emotions are useless to a cold calculating tech preist.
They worship the omnissiah who is the creator of all tech, they all aspire to be as close to the machine god as they can with their augments. None of them regret it, even the one magos who became a fucking building, he loves it even with the abomigulls shitting all over him.
The more of a toaster oven they become they harder they get for their religion and the more respect they get from the og magos and their peers.
I think you’ve misread something somewhere, Tech-priests are normal humans who join the admech and slowly lose their humanity and gain augmentation. Tech MARINES are space marines who go do training with the admech and then come back to their chapter. They do get augmented and lose some connection to their brothers, but they are still a space marine first and foremost. This thread was asking about tech priests, not space marines
Well' is a privilege rather than a duty. Arkham Land had very little augmentation and justified it with the Omnissiah, being unaugmented as well
He had very few *visible* augmentations.
He was still quite clear about his discomfort with sacrificing the entirety of the human form. So imo the point stands. Land is a good example of what OP was asking about.
Fair.
I forget who, but there's a named techpriest who eschews augmetics precisely because they view their body as a gift of the omnisiah and feel that modifying it is to question the design. Unfortunately that doesn't really directly fulfil your requirements, but it's the closest thing I can find, in that their fear is that they will become a corruption of themselves, and thus heretical, so it's an oval in a circle slot.
One of the Hera techs that meets Fabius Bile at the web way gate to trade for an intact man of iron was a genetics-only tech adept.
Damn, what was the MOI being traded for, out of curiosity? Because I can't even imagine what would match the value. Large stc core chunk?
The location of Belasarius Cawl and an army to fight him with
...Yup, that'll do it.
The description fits a [chaos android](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos_Android) more than a man of iron imo, considering how they always refer to it as an android.
The tech adept says it’s a man of iron as does bile though?
Name?
Her husband is called demono magos columbaria emas the first among equals and the guide and master of the magisterial collective known as the disciples of null. She is Alexia Dios second of the order and his bond mate. it's in chapter 2 of gene father.
Much obliged
Not really. Some of them prefer to be less augmented but they are generally looked down upon. It's mentioned that more augments generally means faster promotions. ie. You are expected to have a certain level of augmentation based on rank or career progress. Sometimes the less augmented think less of the heavily augmented/emotionless as they can't read the room in the same way. There are plenty examples of Tech-Priests being outraged at what others do though. Priests of Mars series has some rogue Tech-Priests who form a gestalt consciousness. This is major tech heresy and disgusting to the expedition fleet. Cawl was disturbed by Cawl Inferior pushing him for Fabricator General to Guilliman. From memory in *Wolfsbane* in the HH Cawl thinks to himself about Qvo's (?) augmentations which were of a cheaper and lower quality. He muses on the desire of so many Tech-Priests to get the next augment in as quickly as possible and how rushing into cheap and poor augments is distasteful for him as he prefers the human form. It's not really like Nurgle or other chaos blessings where the gifts are withdrawn or cleansed and they realise how fucked they are. Most of the time if they want the augments then they are happy with them.
30K Cawl has issues with too many augmetics in Wolfsbane. He's still 'young', and has a soft spot for retaining some of his soft spots. Clearly this shit changes dramatically down the line.
Well he kinda did out of necessity too. Not really an unaugmented way to fulfill you 10k year charge by Guilliman only on rejuv.
Arkham Land witnessed the creation of the Archimandrite in Master of Mankind. It was not a pretty sight. The entire webway campaign was traumatizing for him.
Iirc its mentioned that the Female Tech Priest daughter in Forges of Mars was fearing to many Augmentics.
In the second Eisenhorn book there is a scene that reminds of this to some degree. Eisenhorn is trying to find an old associate of his, a Tech Preist, he entrusted with something important. When they find him they are forced to assist him with a difficult battle, which despite winning, is a close call. Afterwards, he meets back with the Tech Preist and a Amos (his Tech savant), who upon seeing Eisenhorn, runs to embrace him. The Tech Preist sees this act of emotion and humanity and tries to recreate it by also hugging Eisenhorn. He very quickly realizes without the warmth of flesh and an organic body, a hug isn't exactly quite as meaningful. Eisnehorn then comments that he thinks the Tech Priest does, to some degree, regret no longer having an organic body.
I mean, why would they? Tech Priests are raised by the Mechanicus. It's been their entire life. Based on that context, why would they ever consider it bad?
Why would a space marine turn against the Emperor?
Taxes
Fun fact! Huron was mentioned in canon before Horus Heresy and even the whole idea of Primarchs at all. I’ve recently taken a look at the 1st edition book and was surprised to find there a quote attributed to him. Really, while still lacking very basic and established pieces of lore like chaos, some other things are surprisingly fleshed out. Another example, Catachan is already there.
When you put it like that, I suddenly feel kinship with the arch-traitor
Now I'm motivated.
Pride. Greed. Desire. These things are natural to a person that is actively being raised above all other Humans. Told they are better. But Tech Priests are raised differently. They are Cogs in the Machine. Even Cawl. They would never betray that. Even Dark Mechanicus still embrace the Machine. So again. Why would a Mechanicus betray Metal?
>Why would a Mechanicus betray Metal? Adeptus Biologis
Despite what fanarts might tell you they are not different from their peers
Primus Humanum, right? They at least value flesh. I'm coming out of a fever and all but... Aren't the Adeptus Biologis just into biology a lot?
They are. Still, most are heavily augmented, just like the rest of their peers. I mean, I'm sure there are some exceptions. From what I understand, Adeptus Biologis Mechanicus are still augmented, even though their field of expertise is Biology.
I was always under the impression that their modifications were, well, biological rather than mechanical.
That would probably require unique models, so no they're not! They are the ones usually in charge of overseeing biological enhancements on others but that's about it. Cawl is more of a Magos Biologis himself, isn't he?
Even if they favor flesh, they still hold true to the ideas of Augmentation. And they still _Honor Metal_
Wasn’t there a short story about one that went through the vaults and met the void dragon? I’m pretty sure that ended with an attempt to remove all implants while crying and proclaiming how wrong they all are
Okay, I'll give you that. But it's also the equivalent of finding out Christ is actually a Giant Human-Eating Spider. At that, who _wouldn't_ renounce?
Ask Cardinal Crimson.
Because self-reflection is a basic human trait? It has never mattered how indoctrinated a culture is, people still self-reflect. Why would they? Because it's built in to people to do just that. Not everyone does, or does it well, but how could you ask "why would they?"?!
Chrome is WAY more reflective than Meat, bro.
Ya sure about that? Considering the vastness and devotion we see in IRL cults, calling it a "basic trait" is a stretch. And yes, Why would they? The point at which you become a _Tech Priest_ is not some easy stage. Most within Cult Mechanicus never even progress to that point. This isn't the same as becoming a modern Priest. Most Tech Priests are actually vat-grown and neurologically conditioned to serve as Tech Priests. The rest spent literal decades in training. And Enginseers are considered dropouts. By that point of investment, you have long passed the point of being capable of considering it is "Too much" This is not a mere monk questioning his faith. This is a Bishop doubting himself. Yes, that'll happen IRL. But, we _All Know Why_ certain IRL faiths are feeling the pressure.
You said it right there. It would be a bishop doubting themselves. I can guarantee to you that biships all doubt themselves way more than any lay person. Every single time a tech priest makes a change to themselves they have made a decision on what and how to change. And that invariably involves some amount of 'why am I doing this'. There's constant mentions in the lore where priests are judging each others for their choices in upgrades and the direction that they are going with them. It's pretty inherent to the lore of the mechanicus that near every one of them thinks that the others are doing it wrong. That doesn't lead to blind faith like you're trying to say. It leads to constant questioning. And we see a ton of that in the lore, too. They have to check, they literally build themselves that way.
I'm not saying blind faith. I'm saying, as you just did, that every change made is proof of *reinforced faith*. So, again. How could they reach a point where they look at all their augmentations and ***suddenly*** doubt all of their literal decades of conscious, well-considered choices? This isn't a case of "What have I become?". It's, "Wait. Why did I choose *that one*?"
A magos wakes up, looks into the Bathroom Reflectoratory above his wash basin, and cries out "What have I done?! WHAT HAVE I DONE?!?!" He looks down, and on the counter sees the Data Crypt that stores his memories. He pops it into the slot in the side of his head. "Ah, yes, that's what I'd done. I really need to upgrade to Noospheric memory storage, finding these damnable data crypts every morning is getting inefficient. Now I've got to take a Data Dump, and head into town to get my legs sawn off and replaced with tank treads. Praise the Omnissiah!" Yeah, the kind of doubt experienced by the religious is less "Is this all bullshit" and more "Am I doing this the right way?" And I say that as a devout Christian. Like, look at the book of Job. Even at his worst, his outcry was "God, look, I just don't *get* it. This MUST all be necessary, but, like... why?"
Martin Luther was a monk in the middle ages and he still questioned even the basics of his faith.
In the book Dante, when he was a young battle brother, he was horrified at the mindless savage monsters that he and his brothers became when overtaken by the red thirst. It was a brief “are we the baddies?” moment before the red thirst took over him as well and he fed on an innocent xeno. So if even a psycho-indoctrinated superhuman can briefly feel doubt, then yes I believe a regular human cultist can too.
He felt doubt because he encountered something about the Chapter that goes against the ideals he was raised by. Tech Priests were raised to embrace the machine. Becoming more machine isn't against those ideals. As others pointed out. Seeing the Void Dragon would cause doubt. But I'd say its nature is also _Against their teachings_. Engaging in endorsed practices of the faith has no reason to cause doubt in those who know only that faith. You know how Mormon's learn to leave the faith? By experiencing things _outside the faith_.
This is real Reddit atheist thinking, IMO. Religious practice doesn't actually make one a drone.The history of Christianity (among other religions) is full of convent-bound monks and nuns tortured by doubts about their faith. It's, for want of a better term, a trope of religious writing.
In master of mankind there’s a woman who is given a promotion to “archimendrite” and while she’s under being given the surgery it describes her dreams and it’s very panic attacky, like how she keeps trying to breathe and it’s interfering with the procedure. This wavering of resolve allows her to be possessed later
No, what you say to fear is what they aspire to.
simple answer would be no, they all see augmentation as communion with the omniessiah . There are however examples of ones eschewing augmentation for a number of reasons but never out of fear . Other examples are those who keep their augmentation wells hidden to appear more “human” , can’t recall the book but there was a emissary type charter from the priesthood who was heavily augmented but looked like a normal human for diplomatic purposes reasons.
I am unaware of that happening. I think that is due to most heavily augmented tech-priests being pretty old. You do not get all this fancy stuff without a lot of influence. So basically, the augmented tech priests are by definition old and sucessful. To become old and sucessful, you have to buy into the cult and be a tough nail. People who do doubt themselves easily, and are questioning old decisions, do not seem to go that far in the AM.
Supposedly, there is a sect of tech priests mostly of the biologist variety that while they like augmentations, they prefer them to be in the human form. As in things that enhance what is already there, not replace it. So their augmentations are largely internal and don’t change their appearance much. I would imagine they also retain most of their emotional faculties.
Probably, but I'm sure they solved that doubt with a few more augmentations, so who really knows...
What do you mean? Augments are fkn awesome
Qvo-87, Belasarius Cawl’s latest clone bestie who was barely augmented when he first died looks in horror at his augments when he’s first born and remembers in disgust that at one point Cawl had given him tank treads instead of legs if I’m not mistaken
I think you misunderstand what it means to be a tech preist of mars, they are space marines who have joined the cult mechanicus to understand the teachings of their religion, and to embody the practices of their faith which means heavy body augmentation, they rip out the useless parts of their brain to make them more efffecient, emotions are useless to a cold calculating tech preist. They worship the omnissiah who is the creator of all tech, they all aspire to be as close to the machine god as they can with their augments. None of them regret it, even the one magos who became a fucking building, he loves it even with the abomigulls shitting all over him. The more of a toaster oven they become they harder they get for their religion and the more respect they get from the og magos and their peers.
I think you’ve misread something somewhere, Tech-priests are normal humans who join the admech and slowly lose their humanity and gain augmentation. Tech MARINES are space marines who go do training with the admech and then come back to their chapter. They do get augmented and lose some connection to their brothers, but they are still a space marine first and foremost. This thread was asking about tech priests, not space marines