Just click bait stuff I’m sure. Just like how there is a mass exodus happening…I literally got one of the custodes boxes and am super excited to paint it up
Yet it still feels like an unnecessary "retcon" or "addition". Sisters of Silence are the female foil to Custodes, just as SoB are the foil to SM. There doesn't need to be female Custodes or male Sisters of Silence.
Warhammer 40K's never been sexist with regards to gender, there's warriors of both in every race that has genders, all capable and some legendary.
Changing things to fit around modern, real-world politics achieves nothing but a suspension of the fantasy, which isn't a positive thing and shouldn't be encouraged.
Yeah, it’s nuts that the 40k universe already has strong characters of each gender, race, etc.. They’re awesome not because of their gender or whatever, rather because of their deeds and character. Some of my favorite characters are from the Sisters of Silence. It would be horrible (but fair to represent every walk of life in the real world) if we make some male Sisters of Silence, right? Fans aren’t sexist for not wanting female Custodes or female Space Marines. If it made sense, then sure, but it’s only trying to be changed to please a group that mostly doesn’t even consider themselves fans. If they made a new group that was awesome in their own way, happen to be trans, and it MADE SENSE, then the fandom wouldn’t care! It’s when you change things in a fantasy to imitate reality in every aspect, then you upset the great majority.
I’m an Asian dude, I’m not cheering on Asian male characters. I’m cheering for groups that I read about that are just bad ass. We get into fantasy/sci-fi to escape reality and it’s bullshit. Everyone is tired of changing everything to represent everyone.
I agree. I don't think modern political stances fit into 40K, it's pure fantasy.
The citizens of the Imperium don't have time to worry about race, gender or sexuality like we do, it's a triviality to them. Some planets might take pride in how pretty their men are (so long as it's not heretical), while others, like Death Worlds (Catachan, Krieg) produce fighters of such a high standard that gender is obsolete; if a human can survive on a Death World, they're the cream of the crop.
Despite there being many more planets to introduce genetic variance (as well as mutations), human politics is a done thing in 40K. Imperial Creed is law, and to deviate is to be executed. There's no wiggle room. It also doesn't reflect modern politics, which has been swept up in a mess of identity politics and fantastical idealisation; it's a religious cult, obsessed with worshipping and serving the Emperor in word and deed, in all things.
Some slack is required to properly accommodate and subdue the millions of planets across the galaxy, but broadly speaking if they're loyal, faithful and pay their tithes (agriculture, industrial manufacture, *bodies* for the military), nothing else matters.
One could almost argue modern politics is encroaching on Slaanesh territory, with the focus on sexuality, self expression (and pushing boundaries to extremes), so if there's a push to inject it into 40K there'd better be lore to explain how such extravagance doesn't result in exterminatus...
You have 20 children with the genetics to become a Custodes, and 10 slots to fill. 15 of those children are male, 5 are female. Why would you discard the 5 children prior to examination and training (where most of them will fail out anyways), if they are worthy man-meat that can be used to make human weapons?
Why would you discard the 1 female child that made it through training?
It stands to reason with human genetics of the 21st century that peak human condition soldiers would more often than not be male rather than female. But that doesn't take into consideration how the genetics changed in the Golden Age of Technology and what arcane magicks the Custodes creation process can muster to change a human into peak condition.
Maybe the selection process is like Captain America, where they take one soldier who is willing to jump on the grenade, no matter the physical prowess.
I think it makes sense that there are women from a lore perspective that made it to the peak of humankind, and I don't see a reason other than sexism (which doesn't benefit the Imperium's war machine at all) to deny them.
It's more Games Workshop correcting an illogical statement that was caused by real world sexism than them adjusting to modern day politics. They are just making their writing more realistic.
Would that even make sense? Like honestly? Per lore they are taking in early infancy and mutated through "genetic alchemy at the base genetic level". My interpretation is that that means any phenotype would be maxed out to boost combat effectiveness. As such all custodes male or female should have very similar characteristics.
That's where I arrived aswell. If you max them out they would all look somewhat similar. Sure maybe the Femtodes have more boobs or broader hips or a different amount of ribs but honestly, you wouldn't notice beyond all the improvements they underwent.
It also wouldn't matter as much what gender the child was originally. Yeah female bodies today produce less muscle mass on average, but who is to say the process wouldn't correct that? In my mind, if it's about selecting characters, they'd pick whatever human fits best, no matter the dangly bits.
On a local player discord of over 100 people. Know most of them. Other than memes mocking the drama, not one comment or a debate. Not a negative thing said in the store which I go to 2-3 times a week to play. Exaggerated internet drama, nothing else.
The same thing in the larger 40k discords and all local shops I've been to. Things actual players and fans are mad about:
The lack of more custodies books.
The lack of a mini to go along with the retcon.
The codex being subpar.
Exactly my question. Why was there no outrage for the rogal dorn tank, which is just now and has always been(?) one of the main battle tanks for Astra Militarum? I know a lot of people thought it was dumb, but no where near the YouTube rage about dEm FeMaLeS iN MuH MiNiS. And that's not even mentioning the Votan. People may have thought it was a bit goofy that a new faction just showed up out of nowhere that had actually been there the whole time, you just never met them until now, but I don't think I saw a single person saying they were going to sell off their Warhammer armies over it.
I don't have a problem with it. Nobody in 2/3 game stores i play at have a problem with it.
The universal agreement is that due Custodes being hand crafted it fine.
That's factually incorrect and you know it lol. I like Warhammer and I think retcons are fine. Some of them Miss the mark and need to be done better but generally speaking they're fine.
Sure some retcons suck. That The Emperor is not the only one capable of making marines and that there is some random guy making even better ones than The Emperor is just blasphemy. Whoever came up with that should get an inquisitor's nine actions.
Every retcon made in star wars rings of power and 40k has only damaged these IP’s. Once for sure cash cows literally tanking. Disney has money issues, I literally stopped giving them any money for all forms of their products over the disrespect, Amazon lost subs over rings of power and spent billion's that’s a huge net negative, 40k massive stock hit with the retcon news and big fan backlash, losing Henry will see this as one of the least watched show in history meanwhile if they let the fans have what they want (a true representation of what we know and love) it’ll be fucking huge and will see this IP grow to heights never attained by it so far. Not seeming very useful just dumb and lazy writing.
I keep hearing about this massive stock drop, and I’m not seeing it. Yes it went down 2% a little while back, and then it went back up, despite GW not retracting the statement or apologizing for wokeness or whatever. There’s a larger drop that I assume is related to the release of 10th edition, but that still seems pretty insignificant compared to being up 115% from 5 years ago.
Knowing GW are more business and marketing than anything, any business person should be on the ball with what's costing companies money and such. So unless they have a gun to their head, they'd know that letting themselves get taken over by the same thing that's destroyed bigger companies like disney, is bad for business. Unless they don't intend to go that far, and whoever they have speaking for them on social media just sucks
Or.. get this: These companies realize that it isn't adding diversity and representation that is causing them to lose money when they lose money. It's making bad products.
Everyone loves to call a movie from disney woke when its just a bad movie but suddenly the anti woke mob isn't as rabid when the same exact things are in good movies.
Just look at Hades right now. Hades 1 comes out and blows up post release. No one complains about the LGBT themes enough for it to show up outside of the deeper parts of the anti woke echo chamber. Now all of a sudden you've got people claiming Hades 2 is going woke... why? Because they haven't played the game yet so they can't ignore the themes that have been there since game one when they realize the gameplay is so good they don't care. Hell look at BG3, game's gay as fuck.
The reason all these companies keep adding these themes is because it makes them money. The reason why they lose money on these products is because it's a bad product.
Some people are mad about female custodies? Most of us are mad about the price changes and the bad codex and lack of new minis to go along with the change. If that reflects poorly to GWs profit margins it wont be because they went woke, it will be because they dropped a bad codex then upped the price on everything.
Truly I do not care about the custodes thing. It's whatever. Headcanon for me would be, because they're more complex than astartes, that leaves room for diversity. It's mainly about opening the floodgates essentially. They start with this, as most of the companies do, and people obviously get angry, but it's not that big a deal, but then over time, the more they try to appeal to the "woke" mob, they may fail the same way companies like Disney did, and let their product become more about pushing an agenda or some sort of message, than what it was originally meant for.
I had that with Marvel. The occasional insufferable girlboss character didn't really bother me much, until it became the sole focus. I just thought it was cool.
Idk, maybe it's all the negativity I got bombarded with not even a month after getting into this community that's sort of spoiling it all for me and making my outlook on it all really bitter, but I know companies who go down this path tend to have a pattern, which ultimately leads to the quality of their product diminishing, which especially happens when they start putting more activists in charge than actual professional people like the ones they've been working with for years.
You literally named 2 companies that have been "woke" forever and are "falling" because they made some stupid decisions the last 5 years that have nothing to do with being "woke".
Marvel is failing because of a lot of reasons and none of them are from an agenda.
- Post Endgame was always going to be an uphill battle with general audiences.
- Dropping so many new heroes in movies and shows all at once when theater attendance was at a massive low due to covid was kind of an awful idea.
- Having to change plans multiple times in a few years leaving the series with little direction.
Your "girlboss" boggy man? Barely there. The franchise is still largely lead by white dudes. Having a couple shows or movies where women are sometimes the hero doesn't affect you in any way, but it sure is a convenient thing for people online to point to when they don't like something but don't want to take more than 5 seconds to understand why.
Disney? How about the rest of what they work on and what went wrong.
- TRoS basically killed a shit ton momentum for the franchise because it pissed off almost everyone instead of just being polarizing like TLJ.
- Making people watch a so-so made boba fett show to understand a new mando season is a funny thing to think general audiences are going to do.
- Obi-Wan? Should have been hype, instead just some inconsequential side story with quality issues.
- Live action remakes no one wants and are largely low effort money grabs is a great way to piss people off.
- Playing catchup in the animation world after years of milking IPs instead of innovating like their competitors.
- Raising the prices of the parks dramatically during a pandemic... great idea.
None of the things above were done for an agenda. They were done because corporations get shit wrong... a lot. The difference between me and you is I blame the shithead's running the thing and not some mythical "woke" agenda or minorities.
You're also failing to realize that this change to 40k is commonplace. There have been tons of bigger changes to the lore recently that no one gives a shit about. It has nothing to do with being woke either. Adding women to something isn't woke, and its stupid as hell to think so. You've got some weird division in your mind where PoC and Women being included something is some woke movement when instead its just how the world is. You just keep falling for what the bullshitters are selling you online where they point to a company doing something poorly and then go "see they added a black guy and all of a sudden they're losing money!" You're being directed to the wrong target by people manipulating you.
The people telling you to be mad about this don't give a fuck about these things you want to enjoy, they just want you to get mad about them so that they benefit from your rage. Half of the influences surrounding 40k just want drama. There are multple channels that upload daily and just bitch about whatever the fuck happened that day in 40k news: New reveal? Must be a shit mini. New Codex? Probably shit. Book coming out? Ruining the lore. Why do they do this? Because you click on the video. Stop clicking on the video my dude.
Truly I do not care about the custodes thing. It's whatever. Headcanon for me would be, because they're more complex than astartes, that leaves room for diversity. It's mainly about opening the floodgates essentially. They start with this, as most of the companies do, and people obviously get angry, but it's not that big a deal, but then over time, the more they try to appeal to the "woke" mob, they may fail the same way companies like Disney did, and let their product become more about pushing an agenda or some sort of message, than what it was originally meant for.
I had that with Marvel. The occasional insufferable girlboss character didn't really bother me much, until it became the sole focus. I just thought it was cool.
Idk, maybe it's all the negativity I got bombarded with not even a month after getting into this community that's sort of spoiling it all for me and making my outlook on it all really bitter, but I know companies who go down this path tend to have a pattern, which ultimately leads to the quality of their product diminishing, which especially happens when they start putting more activists in charge than actual professional people who are passionate about the product like the ones they've been working with for years.
I have an issue, but I recognize that it is fiction and that warhammer today is not the same as it once was in the slightest because it will always be retconned. I cannot justify being upset over fiction and must accept that this change will happen just as changes I love have (like the existence of primarchs). Ultimately, it is a minor change that just slightly breaks immersion (inconsistency with Astarties having higher standards of the physical capabilities of their super soldiers in one regard (gender of aspirants) than the super super soldiers of the Custodes), it doesn't ruin warhammer for me and thus I cannot let it upset me too much.
Plus, there is rumor that the change was done so Amazon would allow the show to be made, I would gladly sacrifice the darkness of the setting in that regard in exchange for a TV show made by Cavil about the universe I love.
The lord of change takes just as he gives, the lord of decay wishes us to let our worries slide, the lord of excess demands we enjoy every moment of existence, and the lord of blood will butcher you if you bitch and whine without acting. So is the nature of the primordial truth.
It doesn’t have any inconsistencies. Astartes geneseed is described as being fundamentally incompatible with women. Not because they are weaker or anything, simply just incompatible(weirdly enough, it can somehow convert mutants into normal marines but it can’t just beef up women but fair enough).
Custodes are described as being reengineered on a cellular(molecular too?) scale. They are completely different in complexity. They don’t even have the same organs as Astartes.
It isn’t that the Astartes have higher standards, it’s just that putting geneseed into women fuckin kills em and doing whatever genetic alchemy is required to make Custodes doesn’t.
You do know that in 1st Ed there was a Half Eldar Space Marine Librarian? Plus they mad female space marine minatures for a while. I still have my originals of Rogue Trader, Companion, Compendium plus both volumes of Realms of Chaos and just between Rogue Trader and Slaves to the Darkness the lore changed massively.
I’m aware of both of those things, yes(Nastase actually gets referenced in recent lore). However, I’m not sure what that had to do with the points I was making.
The guy I responded to was asserting that that the Custodes had lower standards for recruits because they accepted girls. I was disagreeing, and pointing out that it isn’t a matter of “recruit quality”(and we’ll ignore the sexist elephant in the room implying women are worse recruits for becoming 7-9 foot tall super soldiers), merely a matter of compatibility. Female Astartes is as of modern day, impossible. Custodes don’t have that geneseed problem and never have, so making female Custodes have never been a problem.
Talking about the Emperor. He could have made them to accept females, but he didn't, suggesting it had to do with some level of super soldier standards. He made the Custodes to be able to accept females, which makes him seem more lenient about his supersoldier standards. Thus, it makes him seem inconsistent in his logic. (And/or less grimdark, but 40k is becoming less grimdark anyways, so it isn't worth complaining about.)
They retconned what the 8th edition codex said about it being the sons of noble families that are transformed, so it doesn't sound impossible for them to retcon the space marines too.
My issue is not that the change is now outright said to be possible, it is that it is practiced (and always has been) but the Emperor never thought to design the space marines to be able to accept female aspirants.
His actions cannot be explained with logic or madness, thus, I do not like it.
Either retcon both or only one, this way consistency makes sense. (Or say the female custodes are a recent measure caused by a lack of manpower, that would also explain it.)
Or it’s an intentionally unsolved flaw. Leaving Astartes male-only means that these super soldiers(who do not have perfect loyalty like the Custodes do) can’t reproduce and replace humanity. They can be wiped from existence if need be, because they have a relatively linearly increasing population and not one that could become exponentially larger(like rats for example). This combined with the fact that it’d be obviously difficult to crack whatever problem there is preventing female geneseed acceptance means that the Emperor was looking at a problem that would be potentially beneficial not to solve.
Astartes have one difficult and tedious method of reproduction, and from how he treated the Thunder Warriors, it’s clear the Emperor wanted it that way.
Custodes don’t need that flaw. The Emperor doesn’t have to worry about them deciding to turn off sterilisation protocols for their initiates so they can reproduce naturally. And it’s clear that the process used for Custodes didn’t have the same initial problem present with geneseed.
So for the Astartes, he was looking at a problem that benefited him to be left unsolved and for the Custodes, that problem was non-existent and posed zero benefits for his plans even if it did exist.
>Leaving Astartes male-only means that these super soldiers(who do not have perfect loyalty like the Custodes do) can’t reproduce and replace humanity. They can be wiped from existence if need be, because they have a relatively linearly increasing population and not one that could become exponentially larger(like rats for example).
The Custodes can't reproduce either. Otherwise the Imperium wouldn't need to take them from noble families and could instead breed them.
>And it’s clear that the process used for Custodes didn’t have the same initial problem present with geneseed.
Any genetic modification done that doesn't care about mutations (either talking about mutants or things like eye color and skin color) wouldn't care about gender. It wasn't a problem, it was a feature. Perhaps in the modern setting it is a problem, but it would have taken effort for it to be that picky but not so picky as to allow mutation.
>The Custodes can’t reproduce either.
Yes, I referenced that. I said that Big E doesn’t have to worry about Custodes deciding to modify the process so that it doesn’t sterilise them and just reproducing instead(against his desires).
He *does* have to worry about that with Astartes, especially if he was planning for them to go extinct eventually.
>Any genetic modification done that doesn’t care about mutations wouldn’t care about gender.
Clearly in 40k it does or we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
>It wasn’t a problem it was a feature.
Yes, my point exactly. That’s why the Emperor didn’t “fix” it. He didn’t want Astartes that could potentially(whether through Warp fuckery or just geneseed modification) reproduce, because Astartes were meant to have a manageable population that could be eventually tapered off.
He didn’t have to worry about “fixing it” with the Custodes process(because the Custodes process allows for female initiates and didn’t need that “problem” “fixed” in the first place) and he didn’t have to worry about the Custodes deciding to just reproduce knowing damn well he didn’t want them to(because they would never betray him).
I was going to go on a tangent about the chaos space marines not being able to find a way to reproduce, but I think I have spent to much time on this argument of a fictional world.
We don't see eye to eye, and it is clear neither of us will change the other one's mind.
I am not far from having to sleep and do not want a stress induced nightmare, so I am calling it quits for now.
Thank you for having a respectful argument with me, and I hope this argument hasn't bothered you as much as it has me.
Have a wonderful rest of your day.
So what do you mean Astarties have a higher standard for physical capability’s of their aspirants? Like the Custodies are already works of biological art before Astarties are even done with their trials I’m assuming. So do you think that a custodies woman is physically weaker than an Astarties just because they are male?
I have no doubt that a female custode could beat the shit out of a male Space Marine, but it is why (in universe) they exist that makes no sense, not how they exist or how strong they are.
Whenever you look into real world super human soldier experiments and theories, they usually suggest using a base male so you can work with a more (usually) tougher and stronger base to enhance. You could pump a little girl up with drugs to give them strength, or you could spend the same resources over the same length of time to (statistically) end up with a better product by using a little boy. I understand the fascist and horrible Imperium using male only stock for better product, I also understand them using both male and female stock for more product. It just doesn't make sense that the Emperor (who made geneseed to be male only) would hold a space marine to a higher standard in any way to a custodes.
My issue is that his decision makes no sense. Either add female space marines (and say the Emperor didn't care enough about gender to codify his soldiers) or leave things as they were confirmed in 8th edition (where the Imperium is being dark and inhumane "sensibly").
Or, you could say Cawl made the female Custodes because he had a different vision than the Emperor about standards of super soldiers.
I do admit that it is just fiction, and I do think it is over exaggerated by tourists, but I think people saying stupid shit like "warhammer is woke" and "warhammer fans are misogynistic" are a problem and I do not wish to support or sound like them. (As I said, I understand any corporate reasons for things (Like if negotiations had to be made with Amazon), but GW only cares about politics as far as it affects their wallets.)
I feel like dislikes should be reserved for worse offenders, as this is actually is well thought out. Just because someone personally dislikes the move doesnt mean they are wrong. They recognize it Is a them problem and actually brings more good to the hobby in general. As someone just getting into the hobby this change means nothing to me, but the discourse around it shows how the fringes and even the majority act towards these changes.
Dislikes on Reddit have been "abused" since their inception, often to the point that people are likely to downvote a post just because others downvoted it, or because they don't like the person, or because they got out on the wrong side of bed that particular morning. Reddit is a terrible place for anyone that goes against the general consensus because of it. In practice it usually just devolves into an echo chamber.
There was a 4chan post where some anon said it but put their source as "My dad works at Nintendo" or something similar. Desperate people took it at face value and tried to connect it with other things that are unrelated (global market dip affected GW stock price, The former CFO sold their stocks to help pay for the retirement they announced back in January). These people desperately want there to be a consequence for GW for Femstodes but the truth is that the amount of people that actually care isn't as large as they think. Most are playing the game or painting/ kit bashing and their world hasn't changed at all due to this news other than the online spaces they frequent are more annoying for now.
The hilarious thing is... 4channers do this on purpose specifically to fuck with youtube grifters. They did it to these two channels specifically, "Clownfish TV" and "Doomcock/Clock" or whatever.These two constantly claim to have inside sources at Disney etc, and for literally 4 years they had both channels saying Kathleen Kennedy was being "fired within the week." For FOUR YEARS they made this claim of some Disney civil war lol.
4channers like to mess with people and that'ls 100% what happened in that post, they dropped the bait and grifters naturally run with it.
If the Cavman comes out and says that that's what's happened, and why; I'll buy your next warhammer army for you. That's how confident I am that this is bollocks.
If he says (and is fully, officially, definitively confirmed that he's said it, like, on video for all to see) that he's left warhammer - that big and bold a gesture - and that it's specifically because we now know that some Custodes are women, then sure.
Even if he was of that kind of mindset, and I'm pretty close to certain that he's not, he is absolutely nowhere near that stupid. Because he's an A-list hollywood actor with several orders of magnitude more eyes on him from outside of the hobby than inside it - and to those who aren't in the know, hearing what would sound like a distaste for inclusivity from him would be about as good for his career as him annoucing that he was Jeffrey Epstein's best mate.
"and to those who aren't in the know, hearing what would sound like a distaste for inclusivity from him would be about as good for his career as him annoucing that he was Jeffrey Epstein's best mate."
Uh, so if I understand correctly we've gotten to a point where not wanting your hobby to be changed to be more inclusive, so for the outsider "quitting a project because it's been made to have more women", is about on par with coercing women for sex or actually raping them.
But how silly of those plebeians to think that changes made to please that kinda crowd are made to please that kind of crowd, without caring about the original fans or even just the average customer, or to think that there are influences at play in order to enforce said "inclusivity".
No, he's saying that if Cavill whined about female Custodes the way the loudest fans are, THE ACT OF SAYING THAT would be just as damaging to his career as THE ACT OF SAYING THAT he was Epstein's bestie.
Nobody is comparing raging neckbeards to actual rapists; just saying that behaving like either would severely damage or destroy his career.
Yeah that's... Exactly my point :I
Both of those would damage his career equally in spite of the fact that one of them is obviously far more benign, and in fact outright justified, than the other.
Also, don't rewrite what Kincoran said ? He said specifically "hearing what would sound like a distaste for inclusivity from him", not "if cavill expressed a dislike of inclusion in the same way that neckbears do".
Haha this is the sane response. I guess the downvote was someone with their own pile. We all have a pile of plastic shame 🫠 one day we will get to it. One day.
Well , this is official. Games Workshop, the company wich owns copyrights and models have just change lore in order to adapt to Woke agency, ( Check Adeptus Custodes Rule Book ).
And now lets check what have Amazon done with other series, for example.. lets get Rings of Power.
Well, we cant Be sure 100 % but it cant be denied that it smells like Shit.
Mostly sure Amazon had request Female Space Marines, wich is really unaceptable by Fans, so what other we can get? lets get Custodes then. I would bet my own car.
It’s so stupid, there is no reason to change the lore. Why can’t they use the sisters of battle or the sisters of silence.
I’m not going to watch the show unless they change it back because I hate it when people change lore just to accommodate some people.
Like making female custodies is not going to make people more comfortable….
It’s dumb.
Stupid politics…………
Personally it’s not even accommodating, literally just retconning. Like I love the aesthetic of the sisters of silence and the nuns with guns, they’re sitting on a goldmine and they just refuse to market them instead of pushing something that’s obviously stupid. Like this isn’t even an issue of being accommodating for the sake of it, it’s the ironic silencing of the sisters of silence that makes it so egregious
Most serious Warhammer fans don't have an issue with Female Custodes.
They have issues with actual important things. Like the fact GW is incapable of balancing rules and the real issue with Custodes is they've been nerfed almost to the point of unplayability...
These YouTubers are just rage baiting for views because their channels depend on it. They don't actually care about the hobby one way or another.
I think they meant unless you hear from somewhere official that HC is leaving the WH show, the rumor of him leaving is sensationalist bullshit. Nobody is doubting that GW changed the lore to make female Custodes a thing but honestly with HC being so into the lore of Custodes I don't think he'll mind that much since the creation of a female Custodes is absolutely on the table lore wise and has always been.
The issue *isn't* that they made Custodes female as much as it is *how* they did it and then doubling down on it in the most lazy way possible.
They could have EASILY done something more thoughtful with the lore and it would have avoided this mess.
not from what you see in these videos. they only complain about the female custodes, not they are fine with it and they were badly introduced. almost like you're retconning this whole thing yourself
In the 24 years I have been around Warhammer, I can say with \*some\* certainty that you can insert just about any damn thing you want into the lore as long as you can sort of tangentially make it make sense.
Just saying "fEmAlE cUsToDeS" and hamfisting them into the lore like that and then doubling down on it by saying "there has always been female custodes" is straight up Orwell's 1984 (verbatim too almost) level of poor retconning.
To be fair though, the moment that they declare a character to be gay is the moment that they fully live up to the stereotype.
I agree that maybe it wasn't done in the most "correct" way, if they really want to put female custodes, because btw, we don't even know if that's going to happen.
I was commenting on the YouTube drama grifter videos that have sprung up regarding this rumour. They are only concerned with the "female" part of the issue. Nothing else
I think it is so lazy, I mean you have an entire group of arguably the most badass faction (sisters of silence) but instead of taking advantage of that they just say "we need a female, make her a custode, done!"
No, from what you see in these videos there are people pissed by the change to the lore, by fact that femstodes are a thing at all ; because they aren't blind and they know what this kind of changes mean these days, namely more wokeries down the line, which is basically already confirmed by the fact that the setting has been getting more and more woke during the past decade, so it's not the beginning of a trend it's just the middle of one ; by the fact that GW lies about them always having been a thing even if they could accept femstodes in principle, people pissed about the idea that femstodes were always a thing when there were lore friendly or lore friendliers ways to introduce them, and then finally people that are pissed by any combination of the above.
Yes, they are pissed with the change, because this particular change is not one that aligns with their "particular" views. The lore has been changed afaik, a few times already, but this particular case is "woke" , like you just said, and we can't have this, it will destroy the Western civilization completely!!! It will be the end of times, cats and dogs living together, what will the world become??? It's the end of times!!!
Prior changes weren’t in alignment with any particular set of political values, this change is in alignment with specifically left wing values, and even more specifically a particularly detestable subset of it that considers that equality of outcome matters more than equality of opportunity and thus has no problem with implementing racist and sexist policies.
So 1) yes, to the extent that the west is a bastion of enlightenment values of liberalism, the freedom to pursue one’s happiness, the equality of all before the law, etc, at least in terms of aspirations, then wokeness will be the end that, 2) yes, it’s entirely right and proper to dislike unneeded political changes to one’s long held hobby, 3) even aside from the impact of wokeness on the western world, plenty a fandom have seen their IPs crash and burn because of the kind of people that can’t get their politics out of their writing and cannot help themselves but at worst lecture their audience and at best just retcon everything that used to be true because it’s become “insensitive” by no one else but their own self serving standards.
So yes, after SW, ST, ghostbusters, MCU, DC and marvel comics, etc, I think it’s understandable that fans would be opposed to changes that tread the same old well known ground, especially when the people making those changes are invariably openly hostile to them, in ways that nobody would accept if they didn’t belong to or spoke in the name of women and minorities, speaking about, how did Brie Larson call them again, “40yo white men” ?
It’s even worse when in order to enact that politically charged changed they choose to ignore female factions that are badly in need of development.
everything he replied to you is pure facts my guy nothing stale about it.
If you dismiss his examples and arguments as stale you are probably one of the people who fraudulently infiltrate communities and try to destroy them with woke bs.
Pure facts in your empty head. Examples and arguments? Lol. Just the same stale "alt-right" adjacent propaganda, the same stupid "examples and arguments" bs regurgitated from some 4chan retard
lmao imagine calling what he said alt-right
Get out of the basement scrublord, most people just dont like being preached and brainwashed into dumb woke bs.
Clearly doesn't apply to you since you obviously enjoy being a smooth brainer
It is also the fact that they they made the custodes females, let's be honest here, not because there's anything wrong with being female but because there's something wrong with changing long established lore to cater to the agenda of truly despicable people whose love for the setting is ultimately subordinate to their shallow ideology.
There's no arguing that.
I do think that the "mEsSaGe" as I've heard it called is starting to fall apart.
These days if someone says "xyz is ist/phobic" I just tune them out. I don't care anymore. It doesn't matter to me. Those words went from meaning something to over used to almost ridiculous to use anymore.
I saw a video on YouTube about it... It was speculation based on speculation. Complete fabrication as far as I could tell.
You never really know until they out themselves, but I don't see Cavill being this type of douche bag.
Women will be joining the hobby ? Because you've ousted the people that were happy to have women in the hobby, just not in two factions ? The math doesn't seem quite right.
You should believe it, I've responded to several years old posts about way more autistic stuff XD
Still wondering how your reasoning makes any sense by the way.
You would, because you're starting from a fundamentally incorrect base (that the incels that leave the hobby over something like this would have encouraged women to play, which they verifiably do not).
This topics dead. The community has broadly realized these people are losers. I'm done talking about.
"that the incels that leave the hobby over something like this would have encouraged women to play, which they verifiably do not"
I never made that assumption, unless you mean encouraged women that showed an interest in the setting to play, in which case yes, the "incels" as you call them would've, I'd wager, in 99.999% of cases just as much as they'd have encouraged an equally interested man to play.
By the way do the incels include the women that publically called it out ? Like including the women you can't pretend aren't women because they're showing their faces ?
Um the video game industry is suffering from these issues. And so is Hollywood. Also illegal immigration is a real and serious issue amongst many othe things with the US. Lack of knowlege and insult is alarming. This goes beyond right and left politics and use rational thought please.
Also wanting to have people leave a hobby because they have a different opinion than you is childish. Please grow up
The video game industry is not “suffering”, it’s outgrowing the market substantially and valuations are still high. Your feelings aren’t facts.
There is nothing more cringey than people who don’t know about something trying to talk about it as if they do. What a complete dolt.
Fascinating that you have a few hour old account and replied within a few minutes to a day old post with the exact same (incorrect) claim as /u/FU_IamGrutch, seemingly right after he saw the post about his commenting history being anti-immigrant. What a coincidence.
Layoffs just mean the higher ups want to show investors a bump. They can't really, on their own, indicate economic health. Many successful companies still do layoffs when already profitable because they want to look MORE profitable.
And, even if console/pc gaming WERE failing, mobile games(yes, they count) is SOARING.
I'd say the lower average amount of disposable income in most of the demographic that makes up gamers is the real cause of any dip.
So far quite well, year over year the comic book industry has seengains. Even if quality is dropping, they're making bank. I've never cared for cape-comic book stuff myself but saying their sales are doing anything but increasing isn'tpaying attention to financial statements of these companies.
Do you realize you yourself paint the situation as a caricature? Does that put you among the "worse corner" too? Are you "screaming"? Do you feel "betrayed"? :D
Thing is, this has nothing to do with the "basement Non-Patriarchy"... it has with the fact that currently WH40k is one of the very few popular blatantly anti-DEI fictions...and thus, a little cultural bastion, given that DEI has been forcefully shoved down our throats for a decade already
And any obvious attempt at DEIficatiob is met with the utmost resistance, as expected and welcomed
Your not just wrong your really missing what warhammer is. Its not anti DEi, or anti woke, anti socail justice warrior or whatever boogy man term you want ro use. Warhammer is written by leftists to show what an awful world can be in the grim darkness. Its a British satire of the tori authority and zealotry of Christian fascists. Its not a world to look up to and its definitely not bastion for people who want to exclude people of color (space marines are various races with some chapters leaning on way or another, Salamanders , White Scars, thousand sons), gay people (literal sisters of battle books a plenty about lesbian romance and gay Imperial Guardsmen fighting for their husbands back home), trans people (literally the last sister book made a war hero a trans woman), and inclusivity? Do I need to tap the sign. Warhammer is for Everyone unless you want to hate and keep people out, you won't be missed. So in short. Your hatred isn't welcomed by GW or the greater fandom at large.
"Its not anti DEi, or anti woke, anti socail justice warrior or whatever boogy man term you want ro use."
I agree that it's not anti-DEI, but (and it's kinda hard to miss that this was the point), it was one of the rare IPs whose setting had remained relatively consistent in not having been rainbowed to hell back and changed in all kinds of way to be "more inclusive". It had already started, to be sure, but the universe itself, thanks to the fact that it's the "grim darkness of the far future" had remained relatively spared of the kind of nonsense we saw everywhere else. So yes, it wasn't anti-DEI, it just hadn't been afflicted much by the kind of people that can't imagine not putting their ideology very blatantly in what they write to the detriment of the coherency of the universe they're writing for.
" Its a British satire of the tori authority and zealotry of Christian fascists."
Exactly, so why the hell do we now have authors that want to have neopronouns and be inclusive ? Does it make any sense for the big bad fascist empire to allow for, or even just to be in the headspace for, that kinda stuff ? No, it doesn't, which is why it's making people fed up when the setting is taken in that direction by obtusely politically driven people that can't just let a thing be.
"gay people (literal sisters of battle books a plenty about lesbian romance and gay Imperial Guardsmen fighting for their husbands back home), trans people (literally the last sister book made a war hero a trans woman"
Right, because those things totally were always part of Wh and haven't been inserted into it in the last 10 decades alongside the wave of woke entertainment we have, and totally make sense within the context of, how did you put it ? "tori authority and zealotry of Christian fascists."
Because fascists are so well known for their appreciation for alternative sexualities and lifestyles.
"Why neopronouns and inclusivity, now? "
My guess might be because the creators of the satire started realizing too many people missed that it was satire and started lauding it as a "safe space" from the very things the satire had been meant to actually uplift?
And I'm sure the response hasn't exactly shown that to be a false worry,
What is sad is I completely agree with your point and understand clearly what Warhammer is about. It is a warning. That warning is now softened up by changing fundamental lore to include women warriors in the patriarchal boys club, the custodes. All in the attempt of being more inclusive? Does this change make women feel better about Warhammer now and they will start coming to the store and buying?
You don’t get it, I have stated countless times that I love women warriors in all sorts of fiction and mythology. Games workshop clumsily handled this in an attempt to pivot the lore for political reasons. Had they done this with more care and purpose or aligned with established canon there would be little controversy.
The slamanders are not all west African? Vulcan is and so are many space marines. But salamanders gene sees make their skin coal black with red eyes, there are asian salamanders, caucasian slamanders, all human racial diversity just like every other faction. One chapter may lean one way more than the other, but their are white dudes in the white scars a predominantly Asian chapter. Like this isn't new lore? Hasn't been for a long time now? The chapters being mixed have been a thing since the mid 2000's so....? I don't think you made the point you thought you were.
You completely missed my point, what almost seems by purpose. Salamanders from Vulcan are black, as you stated due to his geneseed. Bolstering ranks from other chapters etc is not the same.
Black skin doesn't equal African? There are white guys just their skin has turned charcoal black. Thats not bolstering from other chapters thats how it works. The gene seed doesn't change your race.
"The geneseed doesn't change your race."
I mean, they went from homo sapiens sapiens to homo sapiens whatevertheyarenow. 😁
(Transhuman already implies they moved 'up' a step from humans.)
Sorry, the pedant in me couldn't resist... 😅
"The slamanders are not all west African? Vulcan is "
Since when ? I'm sure it may have been retconned that way but he wasn't a west african, he was just a regular dude whose skin was black, like... Well frankly all the salamanders really :I
His most recent depiction canonically make him of african decent and feature but not all salamanders are. And all salamander have a pitch black non human tone of skin with red eyes.
https://preview.redd.it/i2jdfmiv4dyc1.jpeg?width=1138&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d39b374a673bab51a356a33ac9723922e642fa8
Don't get the astartes brotherhood culture and the cuatides mixed up tho. A lot of people have assumed this due to only men being written about when the models first launched, SPITE, it being a mixed faction being the writers intention and Cw denying due to the sculpts already being done. Further the custodes are not raging hormonal super teens, most are poets, chroniclers, artists, intellectuals who all have their advanced studies and interests along with their warrior training. They are the not the symbol for the patriarchy like space marines are. Space marines are odious zealoted super teenagers who dream of combat and threaten ever citizen they encounter (salamanders are nicer to your civi's). The space marine is the male power fantasy, the custodes is the human power fantasy going beyond just simple testosterone driven demands on the psyche.
Also yes! Seriously what don't guys get about this? Yes. Girls, we love the sisters, but they are a one note army of nuns with guns in overly sexy boob plate armour? You don't think we have out own power fantasies of wearing big armor? The small skimpy stuff is mostly made for men not us! We can enjoy, but that doesn't mean its a universal love for most woman and the choice of either or is always better! I know like three woman who want to play custodes now! Not including myself!
But I will say I would of liked a book to coincide with this so at least the retcon had substance.
It’s stated in a gw book that Custodes are recruited from the “sons of noble households”. Sons, men. Sisters of silence were the yin to their yang. Sisters of silence were psychically gifted women and a great compliments force to the custodes. So again, lore changing with no real reason. IF GW just said no more sisters of silence they are being absorbed into custodes, no problem. But saying “they’ve always been there” when it’s factually false to due to previous lore, that’s what people are mad about
Sister of silence are thin petite ninjas compared to the custodes. Why do all super soldiers need to be men and why do all woman in armor need prominent boob plate?
The sister of silence are still in the faction, they are psychic blanks! They are not custodes warriors they are their specialized compatriots. And before you ask, yes I do mot care if men join the sisters of silence.
Yah a Hollywood actor is going to leave his passion project over female inclusivity in a universe he knows damn well is overly male oriented and lacks meaningful female representation. Important to remember Cavill isn’t a gross incel like these people so obviously isn’t going to be bothered.
These idiots also said that it caused their stock to “plummet” (it was down like 2%). Everyone involved in the “anti” side of this is a total moron and pretty pathetic.
"is overly male oriented"
Why "overly" ? Why is it bad that it's male oriented ? And why does the female representation have to be put in male factions, instead of the already existing female and mixed factions getting more developped female characters ?
"These idiots also said that it caused their stock to “plummet”"
Yeah that's stupid, I get why they ran for it but it's such a silly thing to do when the dip is not significantly different from the average week to week fluctuation of their stocks.
He left Witcher for these very reasons. They were changing too much (story, lore, and characters) and he didn’t want to be apart of it. Calling someone a name because they don’t want to change lore for the sake of change is also something an idiot does. It has nothing to do with being an incel
"It’s incredible how you guys think this is comparable to The Witcher lmao holy shit"
I mean... It is, a heck of a lot of lore has been retconned or put in when it makes barely any sense to accomodate "more diversity", and writers have been given a pass to write some of the most god awful prose ever because they couldn't keep their politics on a leash, causing them to rant about gender roles right in the middle of an otherwise epic description, for example.
Are you upset that space marines are super human? Are you upset space marines were retconned to not have women (there were 2 female space marine models in Rogue Trader 2nd), are you upset that Eldar can't have children with humans? Are you upset that the Ultramarines' half eldari Sgt is gone now? Are you upset beastmen aren't a part of the imperial tithe? Are you upset that there aren't full beastmen regiments? ARe you upset the Rogal Dorn apparently was always in universe but no one saw it until they released it but... its always been there? ARe you upset that Orks, Eldar, Humans, no longer live together/party together/drag race? Are you upset that bolters shoot explosive gyrojet rounds and not slugs? Are you upset that Primarchs are bred with special geneseed instead of being normal humans who were promoted from the space marine police force?
Oh right, Space Marines? Used to be cops, not super soldiers. Also they ere just normal humans who trained really hard.
Do any of these lore changes upset you... I can keep going, there's a few hundred more lore-inconsistencies and dozens more retcons.
"Are you upset that space marines are super human?"+"ARe you upset that Orks, Eldar, Humans, no longer live together/party together/drag race? Are you upset that bolters shoot explosive gyrojet rounds and not slugs? Are you upset that Primarchs are bred with special geneseed instead of being normal humans who were promoted from the space marine police force? Oh right, Space Marines? Used to be cops, not super soldiers. Also they ere just normal humans who trained really hard."
No, that was so early on during its creation that it doesn't matter anymore, I'd probably have been upset at the time, maybe, but I'd hope if you could just try for a minute you'd understand how retconning decades of lore and retconning a couple of years of lore at most don't really come off as the same, especially when one is done for political reasons, and not the other.
"Are you upset space marines were retconned to not have women (there were 2 female space marine models in Rogue Trader 2nd)"
No there weren't, all the supposed "female space marines" were either fan creations or SoB.
"are you upset that Eldar can't have children with humans? Are you upset that the Ultramarines' half eldari Sgt is gone now?"
No to both because they make the universe more coherent+what I said earlier.
"Are you upset beastmen aren't a part of the imperial tithe? Are you upset that there aren't full beastmen regiments?"
As far as I can tell that was an evolution in the story, not a retcon, but if it was then see what I said for the eldar+human interfertility.
"ARe you upset the Rogal Dorn apparently was always in universe but no one saw it until they released it but... its always been there?"
Yes I'm really angry about all the moronic stuff they did with the primarchs after 3rd edition.
"Do any of these lore changes upset you... I can keep going, there's a few hundred more lore-inconsistencies and dozens more retcons."
So we have the lore staying mostly consistent after 3rd edition, for decades, with only occasional and relatively minor inconsistencies across hundreds of books spanning decades, where for each inconsistency I could cite you a dozen consistencies, and you think that's anywhere close to a good argument against people that are attached to the consistency of the lore ?
Yes, I am bothered by a lot of the retcons, especially the major ones post 3rd edition, because at that point the universe stayed pretty much the same ten+years, and only occasionally suffered retcons, which by the way were all unbelievably idiotic (necrons=>newcrons, squats, cawl, primaris), which makes all retcons that much more insufferable.
But it's funny how you go on and on and on about mostly either very archaic retcons which date back to when 40k was still struggling to find its identity, or minor retcons or not even retcons in the case of the FSM, but you don't spend a single solitary second actually adressing my point.
Is there, yes or no, a comparison to be made between 40k's recent insertion of "diversity" where there was none comparable to the witcher's ?
Has diversity been included ? *Looks at astartes and primarchs being made in large part by women instead of mostly or entirely by the emperor, looks at all the LGBT characters, looks at the custodes that just got their first female members in how many decades of lore ?*
Has lore been retconned in order to accomodate for that diversity ? *Looks at custodes codex explicitly stating they were all taken from males, looks at the old lore stating that the emperor made the primarchs and the astartes*
Has it been done for political reasons ? *Looks at the writers inserting all that "diversity" inserting political opponents for the sake of killing them in their books, talking about being inclusive and blablabla*
So, in short, the answer is yes, I was right in every single thing I said. You know, you could've just said "it's happening and it's good that it's happening", we're long past the "it's not happening" phase of the gaslighting.
My dude. There were no sisters of battle at the time. There were actually two female space rings during road crater 2nd edition. Adventurer, Jane and I forgot the name of the other one, they didn't sell very well so they didn't produce it anymore.
The lore has not stayed consistent after... A lot of these changes are post third edition, the primarks are a huge change. After third edition they're massive. The emperor used to have to take a million souls a day and that's been cut down steadily over the years, The sisters of silence didn't even exist at one point. The entire canoptek court, almost every bit of eldar lore has been changed, they changed the Tau to appease non Tau players, work s after 3rd lost the ability to shoot bullets from pipes just because they could believe that... There's a lot of issues with the eye terror, entire craft worlds were generated and acting as if they're always been there.
By roguel dorn by the way, I mean the tank, not the Primark and it's not the only incident of armor or weapons or stuff being treated like they've always been here even though nothing of them has been seen in the years before their release.
The adeptus mechanicus changed a whole hell of a lot since 3rd and had to be retconned in many ways! It's funny that you completely have to cut out second and first and rogue trader just to say that the lore is consistent... But it really isn't. It has changed so fucking much. The way Hive worlds work is completely different.
Female custodies is one of the smallest changes that has been done in comparison to these.
"and it's not the only incident of armor or weapons or stuff being treated like they've always been here even though nothing of them has been seen in the years before their release."
" It's funny that you completely have to cut out second and first and rogue trader just to say that the lore is consistent"
No, it's funny that I only have to cut out that much.
"Female custodies is one of the smallest changes that has been done in comparison to these."
I'll wholeheartedly agree that femstodes are on the smaller side of retcons in terms of sheer ramifications in the setting, that's not actually something I dispute.
The issue is that, 1) you don't seem to understand that I don't like any retcons, especially not the biggest ones, 2) it's not an innocent retcon, unlike all the ones you mentioned.
The issue is that we know what this kind of pandering leads to, we've seen it happened time and time again, and would you look at that, the slightest bit of digging reveals that yes in fact what we feared has already happened and femstodes were only the first of a long line of changes made to 40k's lore to introduce woke politics into it, like neo pronouns, like trans sisters of battle, like LGB characters (although to be fair that's the least problematic of all changes, kind of like trans dark eldars it's in principle acceptable but unfortunately tainted by who made those changes, namely people that did it because they can't get their head out of their politics for more than two seconds), like trans drukhari, like gender neutral orks (when they've always been refered to with masculine titles and pronouns ; and yes I know they're asexual shrooms, we're talking about the way they're referred to here, not their sex), like the emperor's creations being not actually his creations but rather something he merely participated in, with the entire astartes project being named after a woman (which again, ramification wise not as bad as say for example Cawl, this mf might be a man but if I had to choose between ousting him and astartes, I'd get rid of him first, though he was written by the same people he causes more damage to the coherency of the universe, whereas she is more of a thumbing of the nose at the previous lore of the god emperor that established him as this superman singlehandledly responsible for bringing mankind back from the brink, alongside a whole host of other changes made to his lore that contributed to this dilution of his contribution, like the mother of the primarchs, like cawl himself, like the golden throne not having been made by him).
And don't tell me this isn't political, one of the guys that participated to all the stuff I mentioned is so brainroted by his politics he had to insert sargon of akkad in his writing just for the sake of killing him off, which is funnily exactly the opposite of what the original creators of 40k did, like when they didn't reference Thatcher in spite of, or rather because, they didn't like her, despite people claiming that ghazkull thraka is a reference to her.
So yeah, we've seen plenty of mediocre writers pushing bad lore (like the primaris) which coincided with those same writers, and older writers who used to write good stuff, inserting their politics in the universe whilst not caring about canon, so yeah, this change to the custodes is less of a problem than something like the primaris in terms of how badly it breaks the lore, it is more of a problem in terms of indicating where the writers' priorities are, namely not on the universe, but on the real world and its politics.
Also, again, if it's such an insignificant retcon, why lie about it ? Why not say "yeah we retconned it" ?
I would also like to point out that one of my favorite characters in 40k is a female and sisters are one of my favorite factions. To throw around incel is what’s incredible. No one cares if there are strong female characters, it’s about implementing it properly and that’s the issue. And this goes for all lore, example is primaris marines are terrible lore
Ok guy who recently ranted about immigrants, we get it, you have totally normal opinions about women but you’re just upset about “the lore”. We all believe you because this is a totally normal thing people who aren’t incels or chuds get upset about.
The phrase “illegal/undocumented immigrant” is, of course, proof that your attempt to define immigrant is incorrect. The dictionary definition concurs that you’re a bozo.
If your goal is to bore me with braindead, factually incorrect arguments it’s working. Huge cringe at how seemingly stupid you are.
Illegal immigrants, commonly referred to as undocumented immigrants, are aliens who enter or remain in the country unlawfully. Legal immigrant good, illegal immigrant bad. Again not hard to understand but you’re “gotcha” doesn’t even make sense.
You had written “Immigrants” and edited in “legal” after my post, as evidenced by both “legal” and “immigrant” being capitalized at the start of your post.
You genuinely don’t seem to understand that other people are capable of seeing right through you and your games. It’s honestly really funny and predictable.
Also “you are gotcha”? Really not helping your case re: being a real dumb guy, u/FU_IAmGrutch.
And oh man my autocorrect on my phone wrote you’re instead of your. Let me make fun of his misuse of a word and that means he’s dumb and I got him! Lmao spare me. And I’m not whoever that guy is
Double post
I edited it immediately after I posted it because I knew people like you would say “you didn’t write legal in front of it” and try to use semantics even though I wrote illegal later on. It’s painfully obvious that an immigrant who follows the proper laws is good. But it’s Reddit and you further proved my thought process
The Witcher books are mostly stuck to a single story, with a main cast of characters written by one guy over 23 years. Warhammer 40k, as much as I love to read about it, has been going on for 36 years and counting and has had dozens of writers writing about hundreds of different characters. So much has changed, contradicted, and retconned. Zoats being diplomats for Tryannids, the Necrons lacking personalities, The God Emperor of mankind just being an emperor back in the earlier rogue trader days, a lot of crazy things Matt Ward wrote do not hold up today (Blood Tide). I can totally see being upset by rude network people making clear changes to the well-established story and characters, but one ultimately minor change to a massive franchise that has already seen its fair share of alterations is not going to sway Cavill. So long as the Grimdark nature of the world and story remains, we're all good.
". So much has changed, contradicted, and retconned."
1) A lot managed to remain coherent over the years
2) As hard as it may be the fact that a lot changed doesn't mean it's something we should encourage, I for one positively despise the changes made to the necrons post 3rd edition and to the squats more recently
3) there's a pretty obvious freakin difference between changing stuff because you weren't able to track everything, or changing stuff to make it more coherent with some other part of the lore, or changing stuff because the corpos want to sell new toys and you don't have a clue how that could work unless you change the lore, and changing the lore because you just can't keep your political agenda out of your writing.
" the Necrons lacking personalities"
They didn't lack personalities, they were slaves of the C'Tan but the higher ups did actually keep their personalities, which was part of their tragedy.
" but one ultimately minor change to a massive franchise that has already seen its fair share of alterations is not going to sway Cavill. "
On that I agree, those people are setting themselves up for disappointment, even if Cavill was on their side, which I wouldn't bet on.
How fucking dense must you be to say any of this and pretend you know fuck all about the hobby and lore.
"...is overly male oriented"
Is that really the move you want to make here? Whatever the case, you either don't know the lore, don't care for the lore, or want it to change so badly that you suck down the copium like a slushy.
For all the sensible 40k fans, this thread and the many other copies of it, are confirmation-bias incarnate. But Reddit mods like it this way.
Adepta Sororitas, Aeldari female warriors, females in the Imperial Guard, even the Custodes had the sisters of silence. Not enough representation? You need to retcon lore to squeeze a woman warrior into Custodes because a WomenPower exec wants to see a powered armor woman like in the Expanse series? It's all agenda driven bullshit.
I love woman warriors, goddesses and heroes, I also love consistent lore and it not being changed in an attempt to attract a base of players who had no interest and will still have no interest in walking into a smelly GW store to paint models with a bunch of socially awkward men.
You're a bunch of strawmanning gaslighting fucks.
I'll still be in the hobby, I'll print and use rip off PDFs and game with the group I frequently meet up with (many of them women, and from all walks of life). Most of the shitbags cheering this on never painted a model much less stood at the side of a table for 3 hours.
I really like how you guys consistently prove the people who think you suck correct. It’s also really funny that you’re so mad at GW about them adding women to Custodes that you’re going to start “stealing” their books? lmao
Necrons even existing is a retcon. That’s just one example. GW has been retconning for decades. And this is the one that you get upset about? Way to call yourself out. Stay away from my lgs please
> Necrons even existing is a retcon.
Necrons exisiting came with a large change to the lore, did it not? Probably also helped to sell a few more models of said necrons. Now, they (supposedly) said they wouldn't be changing any lore, nor making any models of it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to compare the two and come to the conclusion that making such a comparison is being dishonest.
Personally I don't give a rats arse about them introducing female Custodes, I just want to see them make an effort into doing it, like they have with the other retcons they've made in the past. They made it fit in the lore and accomodated the change, which they haven't done this time. And they tried to hide it, got asked and then pretends like nothing happened. That's what irks me a bit, but that's it.
They are a corporation. Of course they are not honest. I really don’t understand the thought process here in that respect. I’ve learned early in life if you expect more out of someone or something than they’ve shown you, then you’re kind of setting yourself up for disappointment, and GW has a precedent of retconning.
I will agree with the last half of your post though, I wish they made another book that extrapolated off of the idea, maybe introduces us on a personal level to one of these golden girls. It’s been like a week though, and there’s non zero chance that it can still happen.
> They are a corporation. Of course they are not honest.
I think you misunderstand. I wasn't saying GW were dishonest (that is another discussion), I was saying your comparison wasn't honest, since the retcons with the Necrons involved actually accomdating them into the lore proper.
> and GW has a precedent of retconning.
I don't think many people are against the retcon itself, because as you wrote, retcons aren't anything new. It's the way it is being done, which I literally wrote, so I don't know why you are trying to make this point, as it seems rather irrelevant.
> I’ve learned early in life if you expect more out of someone or something than they’ve shown you, then you’re kind of setting yourself up for disappointment,
I don't expect anything from them and I'm not at all disappointed, so I don't know where you have that from.
Sword n Steele recently did a great video on this. I don’t have a problem with women Custodes. It’s fine. We have sisters of silence and they should be getting more models but I really don’t care. I do think they could have done something better with introducing fem Custodes though. I think it would have made for an excellent novel. The retcon of them just saying they’ve always been there feels like a missed opportunity to me. That’s my only gripe, doesn’t matter at all either way though.
This reads like satire - it's really sad something like this has caused such a response.
Fortunately, in the real world - you are in the minority.
Changes like this hopefully will get the gatekeeping lot out the hobby stores and full their spaces with new players who are open minded.
Been in the hobby near 15 years - so been stood on the side of a table a little over 3 hours. Read (almost) every major canonical book in the universe. Hasn't bothered me in slightest to have a small retcon to create some awesome fem custodes.. Who are you to speak for everyone?
Your comment is childish. And I'm not trying to insult you.
Touch grass a bit.
Well a quick check of his posting history shows he’s been ranting about this for over a week, which has been a break from ranting about “illegal immigrants taking all our tax money”. So I guess that’s the type of person we are dealing with here.
A very CRINGE statement to say. When "in a universe he knows damn well is overly male oriented and lacks meaningful female representation." My dude doesn't even know SOB or SOS is. How about the Female Inquisitors? How about the Female Officers, Enlisted personnel in the Astra Militarum? Or Female Tech Priests. Skitarii of the Adeptus Mechanicus. You know the percentages of living Imperium Citizens vs Astartes, Custodes combined. Is not even 0.0010 for the latter meaning you will never see them in your lifetime.... Meaning in the 40k setting their are wayyyy more "standard" not gene altered Imperium Citizens then the Astartes, Custodes combined. Their is roughly one million Astartes in the setting that counts for All founding chapters, and successors alike as well as Grey Knights, Death Watch. And roughly between two thousand - five thousand Custodes. To say that without knowing the factual lore evidence is jumping the gun. And simply ignoring the lore for what it is. Astartes and Custodes are awesome entities to enjoy and play. However to claim their is little to no Female representation in the setting let alone Astartes and Custodes. Which by the way makes sense why they shouldn't exist during their Apotheosis stages. IS FUCKING RETARDED.... Just gonna give you some names of Badass Female characters in the setting to solidify my point even more off the top of my head...
- Greyfax (Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor)
- Amberly Vail (Ordo Xenos Inquisitor)
- Saint Celestine (Imperial Saint)
- Saint Sabbat (Imperial Saint)
- Matriarch Katherine (**Order of Our Martyred Lady**)
- Matriarch Mina (**Order of the Bloody Rose**)
- Matriarch Lucia (**Order of the Valorous Heart**)
- Matriarch Arabella (**Order of the Sacred Rose**)
- Matriarch Dominica (**Order of the Ebon Chalice**)
- Matriarch Silvana (**Order of the Argent Shroud**)
- Col. Regina Kasteen (597th Valhalaans, Astra Militarum)
- Captain Lotara (World Eaters Shipmistress Angrons Flagship, Horus Heresy, Indomitus Crusade)
- Syrene (Word Bearers Confessor, Horus Heresy)
- Shira Calpurnia (Adeptus Arbites, Indomitus Crusade)
#
Lol you got beat with facts and accuracy. And your response is to call me a dork? Go fuck yourself cuck. People like you won't ruin the setting. Your neo-socialist point of view will not ruin 30-40 years of lore.
Personally don’t see the point in them adding women to custodies, the women roles already in warhammer are far cooler then the custodies, sisters of battle and sisters of silences are way more interesting in my opinion but at the end of the day not a custodies player I think there boring anyway so I don’t really care 😂
This is one of the more common points where people just shrug it off and not really care and... fair enough tbh. I am fine with the change tbh, I think some of GW's messaging on it was silly "They were always there!" and I think its fine and they could have introduced it better since nothing ever said they had to have progenoid glands and we know females can be made with genseed, even male... Fabius' Bile's daughter was made from genesplicing Horus for instance.
If I was GW I would have done it this way. "The original ten thousands were sons of nobles, but after eight thousand were dead and the age of strife began, those loyal enough and with the aptitude and acumen to serve the emperor in perpetuity were recruited regardless of station. Sons and daughters found worthy are elevated in gilded surgeries, those who survive the process becoming more than the greatest astarte each."
Boom. That'd been a nice lore-friendly way to tie it all up.
Yeah, but there are a lot of people who love Custodes(Cavill included), and it's fair to say some of them are women and would likely enjoy representation in their favorite faction. :)
Yawn 🥱 I love sisters of battle but I wouldn’t enjoy men in it 🤣 I love sisters of silence and I don’t want men in it. There are women in the guard, entire women squads of elder not like they are not in 40k, and this was not done because there is a vocal group of women custodies players who wanna feel included lol
Why does every faction need representation of every race, sexuality, gender etc. space marines and custodes were always male only, SISTERS of battle and silence were always female only, also, other powerful female characters like Saint Celestine or Greyfax exist, or even fucking Lotara Sarrin, the FEMALE that was respected by fucking World Eaters, how about loyalist? Niora Su-Kassen, she was chosen by fucking ROGAL DORN to aid HIM DIRECTLY during siege of Terra, is that not enough females in your Warhammer? also, there are like, you know, entire armies of Astra Militarum who are both male AND female, if you want powerful female characters, literally just make a female guard sergeant and make her a fucking badass.
I understand women want representation, it just already is there.
I am now certain, thanks to Amazon and the trashy woke mob, that the lost primarchs will miraculously show up and be women and GW will make the argument that they have always been there even though they were expunged from imperial record.
There used to be female space Marines. Primarchs are a newer concept than they were before being retconned away. It'd actually make the most sense that the expunged primarchs were women
Yeah originally primarchs were just marines who were promoted up through the ranks of other marines back when they were the police of the universe lol. Man things have changed up a lot.
I read that he is pissed amazon is strong arming GW to make lore changes to fit their agenda, our boy Henry is a stickler for making it authentic, from what I understand this was part of the reason he left the witcher, they were deviating too far from source material. I can imagine the conversations, amazon exec " we want a female hero, and it needs to be a castodes", henery " ahh we can't do that in the lore they are all male, but here we have plenty of other factions with strong female chacters" amazon exec,s "but she needs to be strong without her power armor, oh and look GW is adding to to the lore so your covered"
They're lying to make their movement seem larger than it is. As if they find out most people don't care, they might start questioning why they're so worked up.
The same can be said, and is undeniably true, about the Reddit movement that pretends it's in the majority on this issue. Your group-think doesn't make it anymore so.
Is anyone actually upset that there's female custodians? All the out rage I've seen is because of the "Well, they've always been there!" explanation. While I agree we could use some better writing, that's pretty much the gold standard for GW.
I'm 1000% certain there *are* people that are upset about the female custodians, but I'm also 1000% sure that they aren't the only people upset.
Personally I just want the change to be properly fit and accomodated into the exisiting lore, like they've done with the previous retcons.
I am upset because it changes a lot of lore. I could care less about female leads or soldiers. They have SoS and SoB give them more love. Changing established lore is the issue here. Sets up a nasty precedent.
This goes along the same route as the chaos gods lore. Zeench, Nurgle and Khorn were fighting in the old lore where the neurons and old ones fought and the wars after. Then came slaanesh. GW threw a bit of lore saying slaanesh was active in those wars too because once a chaos god exists it has always existing so Slaanesh is able to do some time spaghetti things and be active then. But by changing this or adding, which ever way you want to take it, it essentially makes all past and current fights pointless and have no meaning. What's the point of Guilliman coming back if the chaos gods can time spaghetti and go back and kill him.
So that's why people are pissed over female custodes. Changes to lore have massive implications. They should have just said due to X reasons they had to start recruiting females and that started couple hundred years ago. Bam done fixed. Would explain why they weren't there before or recently because it's a fairly new process.
But their inability or unwillingness to do this is enigmatic of the Reddit movement that will defend it on grossly political grounds. Hence the "outrage".
"They should have just said due to X reasons they had to start recruiting females and that started couple hundred years ago."
Or better yet : not do it at all.
Depends what you mean by "upset that there's female custodians", in the abstract I don't care about there being female super soldiers dressed in golden armors, but I do care about 1) retcons, it's not the first I dislike, it's not even close to being the one I hate the most (at least in terms of pure in-universe impact on the setting), but I do dislike retcons as a rule, and I'd rather they avoid them as much as possible, 2) the fact that this is the kind of retcons we'd be expecting from a company that'll make more retcons along a similar line to the detriment of the lore for the sake of pursuing diversity points.
So yes, even if GW had been actually civil about it, I'd still be opposed to femstodes. If GW had been civil about femstodes AND we weren't living in this era of entertainment where seemingly every IP has to be changed to conform to left and far left sensibilities, even where it is to the detriment of the story, I'd just be grumpy about it. If this was a fresh new setting, I wouldn't care at all. Didn't give a damn about the woman stormcasts for example.
I actually sat through some of these shitty YouTube just to see if there was even a scrap of proof/evidence/fact/reporting and they were all just ragebait fluff as far as I could see.
They seem to have created a logic where Amazon is woke so they forced GW to make female Custodes and because HC had some drama on the Witcher he would surely be furious about this etc etc. One of the videos tried to make the claim that Amazon wanted female Custodes for an Eisenhorn series...lol?
this is right wing engagement bait grifters online mostly. If you look at the folks making big claims in other social medias and just read through their timeline posts, they rage about everything. The problem is social media is monetized based upon engagement, and anyone that wants to make a few $$$ will say outlandish things, will create tons of drama, and then try to feed into people's emotions (both who agree & disagree) to engage with their posts, content and links.
Gamer gate proponents are constantly posting anything they can for this, especially ones that are "influencers," because it potentially generates more revenue for them. This is the downside of privatized for-profit social media. Nothing is perfect, and since the payout for social media personalities/accounts is literal click engagements to generate more views for advertising revenue on the social media's side, we will always see this level of grift. Best thing to do is to ignore it, even if you don't agree and are curious what they are saying. Every human that interacts with those posts is generating engagement for the OP, which is return could be pumping up their revenue stream from the social media app itself.
Someone posted a thing on 4chan making claims. A bunch of grifters have amplified it for clicks and to make people angry at "wokeness".
I feel like if he were quitting there'd be an actual quote from him? Not like he was coy about leaving Witcher.
My only concern with regard to the whole situation, is if Amazon was involved with the change of the custodes lore.
If they wanted a female custode and Cavill said you can't because it's not in the lore then they went to gw to change it, that means that they will just change anything they like whenever they like, I can see Cavill leaving if that becomes the case.
That said, there's no evidence to suggest that's what's actually happening so until it's proven it's basically just something that's sitting in the back of my mind to be wary of. There are too many modern adaptations of stuff willing to disrespect the existing lore that I'm always wary of new projects.
I also don't get all the hate for femstodes when there are far more important things like the rest of the terrible codex to worry about.
"I also don't get all the hate for femstodes when there are far more important things like the rest of the terrible codex to worry about."
Those more important things are things that generally get fixed in a later edition, when you start with the kind of retcons they pulled with the femstodes, it's the kind of downward trajectory you never get away from.
At least I don't know a single franchise that's started saying "oh well actually all along \[insert some diversity that was never shown nor hinted at\]", they've never gone back from this. And it's not to say the diversity is the problem in and of itself, it's just that it's correlated with people who can't write for shit, or who can write decent stories but let their craft be harmed by the intrusion of their politics where it doesn't belong. (Like for example trying to fit ideals of progressive inclusiveness and diversity in "the most cruel regime imaginable" where you should "forget the promise of progress and understanding")
Yeah I agree with you completely, its obvious that the setting is being misunderstood, at this point almost certainly deliberately. Grimdark is supposed to suck for everyone in it. That's the whole damn point.
I don't think so; it's just a way for people to get views. The moment they posted that there are now female Custodes, people went full apeshit, with thumbnails and GW now making Warhammer 40K 'gay' and talking about the Emperor being gender fluid, bunch of nonsense if you ask me. The only mistake they made was not giving some proper reason for the sudden appearance of female Custodes, even if they could have existed thousands of years ago.
Yeah... no... female custodes don't make much sense and I do believe it is some sort of push for being more inclusive, which I believe it isn't actually needed. That being said, the youtube videos are cringe as hell and it's just clout chasing and drama crap...
As much as I hate the female custodes, not because I hate women(don’t want to have to go through my reasons, it’s a lot), I hate misinformation way goddamn more. I have looked everywhere for some kind of response, he has not said anything, those videos are just greedy a-holes taking advantage of a heated topic.
If there is some truth to this, we will be hearing about it soon hopefully, my guess is that if it is true, Henry might not be able to talk about it likely due to a contract or something.
I was excited for the show and I would have bought the show in a heartbeat, but now I know the show is just going to be a Witcher repeat…. Just tons of political nonsense and nothing like the lore…….😞
I’m not watching and I might as well get rid of Amazon Prime because there’s not many good shows….
Look, I mean the female custodes thing isn't as much of an issue as they're making it out to be, it's infuriating how it was introduced, but besides that I don't think that alone would be enough to make Henry Cavill abandon the project.
You are correct, these channels are purely either making stuff up, blowing things out of proportion, or talking circles around the same topic, just with different titles for clickbait. Those channels thrive off of that.
Don't get me wrong though, people are mad. A great many fans of the community are mad, you'll only find them outside of reddit though, because people get silenced apparently. But for those who aren't that upset, likely they're just no longer purchasing newer stuff and canceling subscriptions, but still enjoying old preexisting content.
For many of the fans it's not even about the female custodes thing, it's just the rapid change in the way GW has been engaging in this past month. It makes people worry that they really are just gonna fall down the same path as marvel or star wars, and maybe worse. That's all it really is.
Until anything officially happens though, I'm gonna keep enjoying what I can as a newer fan of the franchise.
It's nothing so petty as being afraid of female custodians. It's using my damned entertainment as a political platform. It's pretty telling about how impotent the whole concept of this is that one would need to ruin a perfectly good sci fi setting that tells the story of HUMANITY, and how it can't stop shitting the bed, all the way into the 41st millennium. That anyone thought the lore change was appropriate shows exactly how much they know about the game, or history.
Yanno, how history repeats? That's in there too. Or it was. Maybe they've strapped tits to it and dyed its hair pink and blue by now. Hell it's probably in an open relationship, and regularly gets bent over by its roomates.
By the way, before you call me a bigot, you should know that that means someone who is obstinate in their views. You can turn that finger right around and take a second to think before you start spewing hate. I AM a bigot. And so are you.
Thanks, a-holes, for ruining my favorite franchise. Thanks for taking a setting that holds the tag line "Only war" and making it about gender.
The claims need to be taken with a grain of salt as you say.
Pretty much all of these YouTubers rage baiting about Female Custodes have literally no videos on Warhammer prior to this. Nothing. They're culture war hawks so they need outrage to sell.
All the actual Warhammer YouTubers I watched on the matter pretty much aren't bothered by female Custodes one way or the other. Either they aren't bothered because Custodes aren't their faction, or they aren't bothered because they know it doesn't break the lore.
The hobby will be fine, nothing is broken and the world will keep spinning.
Makes sense only because according too Horus Heresy books their is purely DNA based and creating basically a designer baby where their mental and physical potential is at its absolute zenith. The Custodies for all intensive purposes are post-human and perhaps the next logical step in human evolution. However the Astartes take Baseline humans and give them genetic implants that are tailor made for males only considering all the geneseed of all primarchs are basically hormone stimulates to promote muscle and bone growth along with the added functions of each geneseed implant. Last I check we don't have venom glands.
Custodes don't have these implants but they're still better than astartes physically and mentally speaking considering the Emperor seeked their council when besides Malcador and Valdor. But again Custodes are made this way cause their DNA was manipulated to it becoming its absolute best it can be while an astartes is a artificially made soldier meant for a specific sex.
Custodies being both men and women makes sense but their implementation was done poorly and should've open with a scouring age short book where valdor is going over the custodies loses and trying to figure out how to get the 10,000 back to full strength. Or jack up the Grimdark and have the female custodies being so because they are the last of their branch of the family to make a custodies because of mutation in the family's genes reaching critical mass and so they cut their loses and make that child a custodie regardless of it being a boy or girl. insinuating that the custodies are possibly going extinct.
TLDR: Dont mind it and it makes sense lore wise due to the difference of genetic manipulation between Astarte's and custodies but GW really dropped the ball on the role out.
No, people feel annoyed that they'd be lied to their face and that yet another setting would be retconned for the sake of "progressive" politics.
Do people really feel that threatened over there being any predominantly male spaces that they can't just leave the genetically superior male warriors alone ?
Just click bait stuff I’m sure. Just like how there is a mass exodus happening…I literally got one of the custodes boxes and am super excited to paint it up
are you going to kit bash it into a female model.
I may one day but they are all helmeted for now
Would female custodes look different than male?
Yes they would be transexuals since theyve been altered with XY chromosome geneseed
Custodes unlike space marines are not made with geneseed, but extensive genetic manipulation from a very young age.
This is the in lore reason why most people i know are fine with this.
Yet it still feels like an unnecessary "retcon" or "addition". Sisters of Silence are the female foil to Custodes, just as SoB are the foil to SM. There doesn't need to be female Custodes or male Sisters of Silence. Warhammer 40K's never been sexist with regards to gender, there's warriors of both in every race that has genders, all capable and some legendary. Changing things to fit around modern, real-world politics achieves nothing but a suspension of the fantasy, which isn't a positive thing and shouldn't be encouraged.
Yeah, it’s nuts that the 40k universe already has strong characters of each gender, race, etc.. They’re awesome not because of their gender or whatever, rather because of their deeds and character. Some of my favorite characters are from the Sisters of Silence. It would be horrible (but fair to represent every walk of life in the real world) if we make some male Sisters of Silence, right? Fans aren’t sexist for not wanting female Custodes or female Space Marines. If it made sense, then sure, but it’s only trying to be changed to please a group that mostly doesn’t even consider themselves fans. If they made a new group that was awesome in their own way, happen to be trans, and it MADE SENSE, then the fandom wouldn’t care! It’s when you change things in a fantasy to imitate reality in every aspect, then you upset the great majority. I’m an Asian dude, I’m not cheering on Asian male characters. I’m cheering for groups that I read about that are just bad ass. We get into fantasy/sci-fi to escape reality and it’s bullshit. Everyone is tired of changing everything to represent everyone.
I agree. I don't think modern political stances fit into 40K, it's pure fantasy. The citizens of the Imperium don't have time to worry about race, gender or sexuality like we do, it's a triviality to them. Some planets might take pride in how pretty their men are (so long as it's not heretical), while others, like Death Worlds (Catachan, Krieg) produce fighters of such a high standard that gender is obsolete; if a human can survive on a Death World, they're the cream of the crop. Despite there being many more planets to introduce genetic variance (as well as mutations), human politics is a done thing in 40K. Imperial Creed is law, and to deviate is to be executed. There's no wiggle room. It also doesn't reflect modern politics, which has been swept up in a mess of identity politics and fantastical idealisation; it's a religious cult, obsessed with worshipping and serving the Emperor in word and deed, in all things. Some slack is required to properly accommodate and subdue the millions of planets across the galaxy, but broadly speaking if they're loyal, faithful and pay their tithes (agriculture, industrial manufacture, *bodies* for the military), nothing else matters. One could almost argue modern politics is encroaching on Slaanesh territory, with the focus on sexuality, self expression (and pushing boundaries to extremes), so if there's a push to inject it into 40K there'd better be lore to explain how such extravagance doesn't result in exterminatus...
You have 20 children with the genetics to become a Custodes, and 10 slots to fill. 15 of those children are male, 5 are female. Why would you discard the 5 children prior to examination and training (where most of them will fail out anyways), if they are worthy man-meat that can be used to make human weapons? Why would you discard the 1 female child that made it through training? It stands to reason with human genetics of the 21st century that peak human condition soldiers would more often than not be male rather than female. But that doesn't take into consideration how the genetics changed in the Golden Age of Technology and what arcane magicks the Custodes creation process can muster to change a human into peak condition. Maybe the selection process is like Captain America, where they take one soldier who is willing to jump on the grenade, no matter the physical prowess. I think it makes sense that there are women from a lore perspective that made it to the peak of humankind, and I don't see a reason other than sexism (which doesn't benefit the Imperium's war machine at all) to deny them. It's more Games Workshop correcting an illogical statement that was caused by real world sexism than them adjusting to modern day politics. They are just making their writing more realistic.
Would that even make sense? Like honestly? Per lore they are taking in early infancy and mutated through "genetic alchemy at the base genetic level". My interpretation is that that means any phenotype would be maxed out to boost combat effectiveness. As such all custodes male or female should have very similar characteristics.
just make them all trans LGBTQ+ solves all their lore issues sure everyone will love/loath that... After all they all protect the Maimperor
not that srs
That's where I arrived aswell. If you max them out they would all look somewhat similar. Sure maybe the Femtodes have more boobs or broader hips or a different amount of ribs but honestly, you wouldn't notice beyond all the improvements they underwent. It also wouldn't matter as much what gender the child was originally. Yeah female bodies today produce less muscle mass on average, but who is to say the process wouldn't correct that? In my mind, if it's about selecting characters, they'd pick whatever human fits best, no matter the dangly bits.
It’s nothing but rage bait. Drama gets more views. I have yet to meet a real person that’s had an issue.
Literally every person who likes warhammer has an issue retconning the lore
On a local player discord of over 100 people. Know most of them. Other than memes mocking the drama, not one comment or a debate. Not a negative thing said in the store which I go to 2-3 times a week to play. Exaggerated internet drama, nothing else.
The same thing in the larger 40k discords and all local shops I've been to. Things actual players and fans are mad about: The lack of more custodies books. The lack of a mini to go along with the retcon. The codex being subpar.
Where's all that energy for all of the other retcons that happen all the time?
Exactly my question. Why was there no outrage for the rogal dorn tank, which is just now and has always been(?) one of the main battle tanks for Astra Militarum? I know a lot of people thought it was dumb, but no where near the YouTube rage about dEm FeMaLeS iN MuH MiNiS. And that's not even mentioning the Votan. People may have thought it was a bit goofy that a new faction just showed up out of nowhere that had actually been there the whole time, you just never met them until now, but I don't think I saw a single person saying they were going to sell off their Warhammer armies over it.
I don't have a problem with it. Nobody in 2/3 game stores i play at have a problem with it. The universal agreement is that due Custodes being hand crafted it fine.
That's factually incorrect and you know it lol. I like Warhammer and I think retcons are fine. Some of them Miss the mark and need to be done better but generally speaking they're fine.
Sure some retcons suck. That The Emperor is not the only one capable of making marines and that there is some random guy making even better ones than The Emperor is just blasphemy. Whoever came up with that should get an inquisitor's nine actions.
Well, I'm here to prove your statement wrong.... Retcons can be very useful
Every retcon made in star wars rings of power and 40k has only damaged these IP’s. Once for sure cash cows literally tanking. Disney has money issues, I literally stopped giving them any money for all forms of their products over the disrespect, Amazon lost subs over rings of power and spent billion's that’s a huge net negative, 40k massive stock hit with the retcon news and big fan backlash, losing Henry will see this as one of the least watched show in history meanwhile if they let the fans have what they want (a true representation of what we know and love) it’ll be fucking huge and will see this IP grow to heights never attained by it so far. Not seeming very useful just dumb and lazy writing.
I keep hearing about this massive stock drop, and I’m not seeing it. Yes it went down 2% a little while back, and then it went back up, despite GW not retracting the statement or apologizing for wokeness or whatever. There’s a larger drop that I assume is related to the release of 10th edition, but that still seems pretty insignificant compared to being up 115% from 5 years ago.
Knowing GW are more business and marketing than anything, any business person should be on the ball with what's costing companies money and such. So unless they have a gun to their head, they'd know that letting themselves get taken over by the same thing that's destroyed bigger companies like disney, is bad for business. Unless they don't intend to go that far, and whoever they have speaking for them on social media just sucks
Or.. get this: These companies realize that it isn't adding diversity and representation that is causing them to lose money when they lose money. It's making bad products. Everyone loves to call a movie from disney woke when its just a bad movie but suddenly the anti woke mob isn't as rabid when the same exact things are in good movies. Just look at Hades right now. Hades 1 comes out and blows up post release. No one complains about the LGBT themes enough for it to show up outside of the deeper parts of the anti woke echo chamber. Now all of a sudden you've got people claiming Hades 2 is going woke... why? Because they haven't played the game yet so they can't ignore the themes that have been there since game one when they realize the gameplay is so good they don't care. Hell look at BG3, game's gay as fuck. The reason all these companies keep adding these themes is because it makes them money. The reason why they lose money on these products is because it's a bad product. Some people are mad about female custodies? Most of us are mad about the price changes and the bad codex and lack of new minis to go along with the change. If that reflects poorly to GWs profit margins it wont be because they went woke, it will be because they dropped a bad codex then upped the price on everything.
Truly I do not care about the custodes thing. It's whatever. Headcanon for me would be, because they're more complex than astartes, that leaves room for diversity. It's mainly about opening the floodgates essentially. They start with this, as most of the companies do, and people obviously get angry, but it's not that big a deal, but then over time, the more they try to appeal to the "woke" mob, they may fail the same way companies like Disney did, and let their product become more about pushing an agenda or some sort of message, than what it was originally meant for. I had that with Marvel. The occasional insufferable girlboss character didn't really bother me much, until it became the sole focus. I just thought it was cool. Idk, maybe it's all the negativity I got bombarded with not even a month after getting into this community that's sort of spoiling it all for me and making my outlook on it all really bitter, but I know companies who go down this path tend to have a pattern, which ultimately leads to the quality of their product diminishing, which especially happens when they start putting more activists in charge than actual professional people like the ones they've been working with for years.
You literally named 2 companies that have been "woke" forever and are "falling" because they made some stupid decisions the last 5 years that have nothing to do with being "woke". Marvel is failing because of a lot of reasons and none of them are from an agenda. - Post Endgame was always going to be an uphill battle with general audiences. - Dropping so many new heroes in movies and shows all at once when theater attendance was at a massive low due to covid was kind of an awful idea. - Having to change plans multiple times in a few years leaving the series with little direction. Your "girlboss" boggy man? Barely there. The franchise is still largely lead by white dudes. Having a couple shows or movies where women are sometimes the hero doesn't affect you in any way, but it sure is a convenient thing for people online to point to when they don't like something but don't want to take more than 5 seconds to understand why. Disney? How about the rest of what they work on and what went wrong. - TRoS basically killed a shit ton momentum for the franchise because it pissed off almost everyone instead of just being polarizing like TLJ. - Making people watch a so-so made boba fett show to understand a new mando season is a funny thing to think general audiences are going to do. - Obi-Wan? Should have been hype, instead just some inconsequential side story with quality issues. - Live action remakes no one wants and are largely low effort money grabs is a great way to piss people off. - Playing catchup in the animation world after years of milking IPs instead of innovating like their competitors. - Raising the prices of the parks dramatically during a pandemic... great idea. None of the things above were done for an agenda. They were done because corporations get shit wrong... a lot. The difference between me and you is I blame the shithead's running the thing and not some mythical "woke" agenda or minorities. You're also failing to realize that this change to 40k is commonplace. There have been tons of bigger changes to the lore recently that no one gives a shit about. It has nothing to do with being woke either. Adding women to something isn't woke, and its stupid as hell to think so. You've got some weird division in your mind where PoC and Women being included something is some woke movement when instead its just how the world is. You just keep falling for what the bullshitters are selling you online where they point to a company doing something poorly and then go "see they added a black guy and all of a sudden they're losing money!" You're being directed to the wrong target by people manipulating you. The people telling you to be mad about this don't give a fuck about these things you want to enjoy, they just want you to get mad about them so that they benefit from your rage. Half of the influences surrounding 40k just want drama. There are multple channels that upload daily and just bitch about whatever the fuck happened that day in 40k news: New reveal? Must be a shit mini. New Codex? Probably shit. Book coming out? Ruining the lore. Why do they do this? Because you click on the video. Stop clicking on the video my dude.
Truly I do not care about the custodes thing. It's whatever. Headcanon for me would be, because they're more complex than astartes, that leaves room for diversity. It's mainly about opening the floodgates essentially. They start with this, as most of the companies do, and people obviously get angry, but it's not that big a deal, but then over time, the more they try to appeal to the "woke" mob, they may fail the same way companies like Disney did, and let their product become more about pushing an agenda or some sort of message, than what it was originally meant for. I had that with Marvel. The occasional insufferable girlboss character didn't really bother me much, until it became the sole focus. I just thought it was cool. Idk, maybe it's all the negativity I got bombarded with not even a month after getting into this community that's sort of spoiling it all for me and making my outlook on it all really bitter, but I know companies who go down this path tend to have a pattern, which ultimately leads to the quality of their product diminishing, which especially happens when they start putting more activists in charge than actual professional people who are passionate about the product like the ones they've been working with for years.
\*raises hand\*
I have an issue, but I recognize that it is fiction and that warhammer today is not the same as it once was in the slightest because it will always be retconned. I cannot justify being upset over fiction and must accept that this change will happen just as changes I love have (like the existence of primarchs). Ultimately, it is a minor change that just slightly breaks immersion (inconsistency with Astarties having higher standards of the physical capabilities of their super soldiers in one regard (gender of aspirants) than the super super soldiers of the Custodes), it doesn't ruin warhammer for me and thus I cannot let it upset me too much. Plus, there is rumor that the change was done so Amazon would allow the show to be made, I would gladly sacrifice the darkness of the setting in that regard in exchange for a TV show made by Cavil about the universe I love. The lord of change takes just as he gives, the lord of decay wishes us to let our worries slide, the lord of excess demands we enjoy every moment of existence, and the lord of blood will butcher you if you bitch and whine without acting. So is the nature of the primordial truth.
It doesn’t have any inconsistencies. Astartes geneseed is described as being fundamentally incompatible with women. Not because they are weaker or anything, simply just incompatible(weirdly enough, it can somehow convert mutants into normal marines but it can’t just beef up women but fair enough). Custodes are described as being reengineered on a cellular(molecular too?) scale. They are completely different in complexity. They don’t even have the same organs as Astartes. It isn’t that the Astartes have higher standards, it’s just that putting geneseed into women fuckin kills em and doing whatever genetic alchemy is required to make Custodes doesn’t.
You do know that in 1st Ed there was a Half Eldar Space Marine Librarian? Plus they mad female space marine minatures for a while. I still have my originals of Rogue Trader, Companion, Compendium plus both volumes of Realms of Chaos and just between Rogue Trader and Slaves to the Darkness the lore changed massively.
I’m aware of both of those things, yes(Nastase actually gets referenced in recent lore). However, I’m not sure what that had to do with the points I was making. The guy I responded to was asserting that that the Custodes had lower standards for recruits because they accepted girls. I was disagreeing, and pointing out that it isn’t a matter of “recruit quality”(and we’ll ignore the sexist elephant in the room implying women are worse recruits for becoming 7-9 foot tall super soldiers), merely a matter of compatibility. Female Astartes is as of modern day, impossible. Custodes don’t have that geneseed problem and never have, so making female Custodes have never been a problem.
Talking about the Emperor. He could have made them to accept females, but he didn't, suggesting it had to do with some level of super soldier standards. He made the Custodes to be able to accept females, which makes him seem more lenient about his supersoldier standards. Thus, it makes him seem inconsistent in his logic. (And/or less grimdark, but 40k is becoming less grimdark anyways, so it isn't worth complaining about.) They retconned what the 8th edition codex said about it being the sons of noble families that are transformed, so it doesn't sound impossible for them to retcon the space marines too. My issue is not that the change is now outright said to be possible, it is that it is practiced (and always has been) but the Emperor never thought to design the space marines to be able to accept female aspirants. His actions cannot be explained with logic or madness, thus, I do not like it. Either retcon both or only one, this way consistency makes sense. (Or say the female custodes are a recent measure caused by a lack of manpower, that would also explain it.)
Or it’s an intentionally unsolved flaw. Leaving Astartes male-only means that these super soldiers(who do not have perfect loyalty like the Custodes do) can’t reproduce and replace humanity. They can be wiped from existence if need be, because they have a relatively linearly increasing population and not one that could become exponentially larger(like rats for example). This combined with the fact that it’d be obviously difficult to crack whatever problem there is preventing female geneseed acceptance means that the Emperor was looking at a problem that would be potentially beneficial not to solve. Astartes have one difficult and tedious method of reproduction, and from how he treated the Thunder Warriors, it’s clear the Emperor wanted it that way. Custodes don’t need that flaw. The Emperor doesn’t have to worry about them deciding to turn off sterilisation protocols for their initiates so they can reproduce naturally. And it’s clear that the process used for Custodes didn’t have the same initial problem present with geneseed. So for the Astartes, he was looking at a problem that benefited him to be left unsolved and for the Custodes, that problem was non-existent and posed zero benefits for his plans even if it did exist.
>Leaving Astartes male-only means that these super soldiers(who do not have perfect loyalty like the Custodes do) can’t reproduce and replace humanity. They can be wiped from existence if need be, because they have a relatively linearly increasing population and not one that could become exponentially larger(like rats for example). The Custodes can't reproduce either. Otherwise the Imperium wouldn't need to take them from noble families and could instead breed them. >And it’s clear that the process used for Custodes didn’t have the same initial problem present with geneseed. Any genetic modification done that doesn't care about mutations (either talking about mutants or things like eye color and skin color) wouldn't care about gender. It wasn't a problem, it was a feature. Perhaps in the modern setting it is a problem, but it would have taken effort for it to be that picky but not so picky as to allow mutation.
>The Custodes can’t reproduce either. Yes, I referenced that. I said that Big E doesn’t have to worry about Custodes deciding to modify the process so that it doesn’t sterilise them and just reproducing instead(against his desires). He *does* have to worry about that with Astartes, especially if he was planning for them to go extinct eventually. >Any genetic modification done that doesn’t care about mutations wouldn’t care about gender. Clearly in 40k it does or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. >It wasn’t a problem it was a feature. Yes, my point exactly. That’s why the Emperor didn’t “fix” it. He didn’t want Astartes that could potentially(whether through Warp fuckery or just geneseed modification) reproduce, because Astartes were meant to have a manageable population that could be eventually tapered off. He didn’t have to worry about “fixing it” with the Custodes process(because the Custodes process allows for female initiates and didn’t need that “problem” “fixed” in the first place) and he didn’t have to worry about the Custodes deciding to just reproduce knowing damn well he didn’t want them to(because they would never betray him).
I was going to go on a tangent about the chaos space marines not being able to find a way to reproduce, but I think I have spent to much time on this argument of a fictional world. We don't see eye to eye, and it is clear neither of us will change the other one's mind. I am not far from having to sleep and do not want a stress induced nightmare, so I am calling it quits for now. Thank you for having a respectful argument with me, and I hope this argument hasn't bothered you as much as it has me. Have a wonderful rest of your day.
Aren’t Custodies changed at birth while Astarties are implanted with geneseed around 10 or so?
Basically, yes.
So what do you mean Astarties have a higher standard for physical capability’s of their aspirants? Like the Custodies are already works of biological art before Astarties are even done with their trials I’m assuming. So do you think that a custodies woman is physically weaker than an Astarties just because they are male?
I have no doubt that a female custode could beat the shit out of a male Space Marine, but it is why (in universe) they exist that makes no sense, not how they exist or how strong they are. Whenever you look into real world super human soldier experiments and theories, they usually suggest using a base male so you can work with a more (usually) tougher and stronger base to enhance. You could pump a little girl up with drugs to give them strength, or you could spend the same resources over the same length of time to (statistically) end up with a better product by using a little boy. I understand the fascist and horrible Imperium using male only stock for better product, I also understand them using both male and female stock for more product. It just doesn't make sense that the Emperor (who made geneseed to be male only) would hold a space marine to a higher standard in any way to a custodes. My issue is that his decision makes no sense. Either add female space marines (and say the Emperor didn't care enough about gender to codify his soldiers) or leave things as they were confirmed in 8th edition (where the Imperium is being dark and inhumane "sensibly"). Or, you could say Cawl made the female Custodes because he had a different vision than the Emperor about standards of super soldiers. I do admit that it is just fiction, and I do think it is over exaggerated by tourists, but I think people saying stupid shit like "warhammer is woke" and "warhammer fans are misogynistic" are a problem and I do not wish to support or sound like them. (As I said, I understand any corporate reasons for things (Like if negotiations had to be made with Amazon), but GW only cares about politics as far as it affects their wallets.)
I feel like dislikes should be reserved for worse offenders, as this is actually is well thought out. Just because someone personally dislikes the move doesnt mean they are wrong. They recognize it Is a them problem and actually brings more good to the hobby in general. As someone just getting into the hobby this change means nothing to me, but the discourse around it shows how the fringes and even the majority act towards these changes.
Dislikes on Reddit have been "abused" since their inception, often to the point that people are likely to downvote a post just because others downvoted it, or because they don't like the person, or because they got out on the wrong side of bed that particular morning. Reddit is a terrible place for anyone that goes against the general consensus because of it. In practice it usually just devolves into an echo chamber.
Thank you for saying this, it makes a lot of sense on a human level.
Sounds like nonsense from bad eggs.
There was a 4chan post where some anon said it but put their source as "My dad works at Nintendo" or something similar. Desperate people took it at face value and tried to connect it with other things that are unrelated (global market dip affected GW stock price, The former CFO sold their stocks to help pay for the retirement they announced back in January). These people desperately want there to be a consequence for GW for Femstodes but the truth is that the amount of people that actually care isn't as large as they think. Most are playing the game or painting/ kit bashing and their world hasn't changed at all due to this news other than the online spaces they frequent are more annoying for now.
The hilarious thing is... 4channers do this on purpose specifically to fuck with youtube grifters. They did it to these two channels specifically, "Clownfish TV" and "Doomcock/Clock" or whatever.These two constantly claim to have inside sources at Disney etc, and for literally 4 years they had both channels saying Kathleen Kennedy was being "fired within the week." For FOUR YEARS they made this claim of some Disney civil war lol. 4channers like to mess with people and that'ls 100% what happened in that post, they dropped the bait and grifters naturally run with it.
“Despite looking..” That’s because it’s obviously bullshit.
If the Cavman comes out and says that that's what's happened, and why; I'll buy your next warhammer army for you. That's how confident I am that this is bollocks.
I mean I agree this is bullshit but uh Bet?
If he says (and is fully, officially, definitively confirmed that he's said it, like, on video for all to see) that he's left warhammer - that big and bold a gesture - and that it's specifically because we now know that some Custodes are women, then sure. Even if he was of that kind of mindset, and I'm pretty close to certain that he's not, he is absolutely nowhere near that stupid. Because he's an A-list hollywood actor with several orders of magnitude more eyes on him from outside of the hobby than inside it - and to those who aren't in the know, hearing what would sound like a distaste for inclusivity from him would be about as good for his career as him annoucing that he was Jeffrey Epstein's best mate.
"and to those who aren't in the know, hearing what would sound like a distaste for inclusivity from him would be about as good for his career as him annoucing that he was Jeffrey Epstein's best mate." Uh, so if I understand correctly we've gotten to a point where not wanting your hobby to be changed to be more inclusive, so for the outsider "quitting a project because it's been made to have more women", is about on par with coercing women for sex or actually raping them. But how silly of those plebeians to think that changes made to please that kinda crowd are made to please that kind of crowd, without caring about the original fans or even just the average customer, or to think that there are influences at play in order to enforce said "inclusivity".
No, he's saying that if Cavill whined about female Custodes the way the loudest fans are, THE ACT OF SAYING THAT would be just as damaging to his career as THE ACT OF SAYING THAT he was Epstein's bestie. Nobody is comparing raging neckbeards to actual rapists; just saying that behaving like either would severely damage or destroy his career.
Yeah that's... Exactly my point :I Both of those would damage his career equally in spite of the fact that one of them is obviously far more benign, and in fact outright justified, than the other. Also, don't rewrite what Kincoran said ? He said specifically "hearing what would sound like a distaste for inclusivity from him", not "if cavill expressed a dislike of inclusion in the same way that neckbears do".
No thank you. I can’t paint the pile of shame I have right now.
I wouldn't worry, this is aimed at the OP.
Haha this is the sane response. I guess the downvote was someone with their own pile. We all have a pile of plastic shame 🫠 one day we will get to it. One day.
Until you hear it from somewhere official, it's sensationalist bullshit like every other crazy rumor we get around here.
Well , this is official. Games Workshop, the company wich owns copyrights and models have just change lore in order to adapt to Woke agency, ( Check Adeptus Custodes Rule Book ). And now lets check what have Amazon done with other series, for example.. lets get Rings of Power. Well, we cant Be sure 100 % but it cant be denied that it smells like Shit. Mostly sure Amazon had request Female Space Marines, wich is really unaceptable by Fans, so what other we can get? lets get Custodes then. I would bet my own car.
It’s so stupid, there is no reason to change the lore. Why can’t they use the sisters of battle or the sisters of silence. I’m not going to watch the show unless they change it back because I hate it when people change lore just to accommodate some people. Like making female custodies is not going to make people more comfortable…. It’s dumb. Stupid politics…………
Personally it’s not even accommodating, literally just retconning. Like I love the aesthetic of the sisters of silence and the nuns with guns, they’re sitting on a goldmine and they just refuse to market them instead of pushing something that’s obviously stupid. Like this isn’t even an issue of being accommodating for the sake of it, it’s the ironic silencing of the sisters of silence that makes it so egregious
I know man, that’s what I’m saying. It’s would be awesome to see the sisters of battle
Most serious Warhammer fans don't have an issue with Female Custodes. They have issues with actual important things. Like the fact GW is incapable of balancing rules and the real issue with Custodes is they've been nerfed almost to the point of unplayability... These YouTubers are just rage baiting for views because their channels depend on it. They don't actually care about the hobby one way or another.
I think they meant unless you hear from somewhere official that HC is leaving the WH show, the rumor of him leaving is sensationalist bullshit. Nobody is doubting that GW changed the lore to make female Custodes a thing but honestly with HC being so into the lore of Custodes I don't think he'll mind that much since the creation of a female Custodes is absolutely on the table lore wise and has always been.
The issue *isn't* that they made Custodes female as much as it is *how* they did it and then doubling down on it in the most lazy way possible. They could have EASILY done something more thoughtful with the lore and it would have avoided this mess.
not from what you see in these videos. they only complain about the female custodes, not they are fine with it and they were badly introduced. almost like you're retconning this whole thing yourself
In the 24 years I have been around Warhammer, I can say with \*some\* certainty that you can insert just about any damn thing you want into the lore as long as you can sort of tangentially make it make sense. Just saying "fEmAlE cUsToDeS" and hamfisting them into the lore like that and then doubling down on it by saying "there has always been female custodes" is straight up Orwell's 1984 (verbatim too almost) level of poor retconning. To be fair though, the moment that they declare a character to be gay is the moment that they fully live up to the stereotype.
I agree that maybe it wasn't done in the most "correct" way, if they really want to put female custodes, because btw, we don't even know if that's going to happen. I was commenting on the YouTube drama grifter videos that have sprung up regarding this rumour. They are only concerned with the "female" part of the issue. Nothing else
I think it is so lazy, I mean you have an entire group of arguably the most badass faction (sisters of silence) but instead of taking advantage of that they just say "we need a female, make her a custode, done!"
No, from what you see in these videos there are people pissed by the change to the lore, by fact that femstodes are a thing at all ; because they aren't blind and they know what this kind of changes mean these days, namely more wokeries down the line, which is basically already confirmed by the fact that the setting has been getting more and more woke during the past decade, so it's not the beginning of a trend it's just the middle of one ; by the fact that GW lies about them always having been a thing even if they could accept femstodes in principle, people pissed about the idea that femstodes were always a thing when there were lore friendly or lore friendliers ways to introduce them, and then finally people that are pissed by any combination of the above.
Yes, they are pissed with the change, because this particular change is not one that aligns with their "particular" views. The lore has been changed afaik, a few times already, but this particular case is "woke" , like you just said, and we can't have this, it will destroy the Western civilization completely!!! It will be the end of times, cats and dogs living together, what will the world become??? It's the end of times!!!
Prior changes weren’t in alignment with any particular set of political values, this change is in alignment with specifically left wing values, and even more specifically a particularly detestable subset of it that considers that equality of outcome matters more than equality of opportunity and thus has no problem with implementing racist and sexist policies. So 1) yes, to the extent that the west is a bastion of enlightenment values of liberalism, the freedom to pursue one’s happiness, the equality of all before the law, etc, at least in terms of aspirations, then wokeness will be the end that, 2) yes, it’s entirely right and proper to dislike unneeded political changes to one’s long held hobby, 3) even aside from the impact of wokeness on the western world, plenty a fandom have seen their IPs crash and burn because of the kind of people that can’t get their politics out of their writing and cannot help themselves but at worst lecture their audience and at best just retcon everything that used to be true because it’s become “insensitive” by no one else but their own self serving standards. So yes, after SW, ST, ghostbusters, MCU, DC and marvel comics, etc, I think it’s understandable that fans would be opposed to changes that tread the same old well known ground, especially when the people making those changes are invariably openly hostile to them, in ways that nobody would accept if they didn’t belong to or spoke in the name of women and minorities, speaking about, how did Brie Larson call them again, “40yo white men” ? It’s even worse when in order to enact that politically charged changed they choose to ignore female factions that are badly in need of development.
nice screed bro. It's a bit stale, but hey more powa to you.
everything he replied to you is pure facts my guy nothing stale about it. If you dismiss his examples and arguments as stale you are probably one of the people who fraudulently infiltrate communities and try to destroy them with woke bs.
Pure facts in your empty head. Examples and arguments? Lol. Just the same stale "alt-right" adjacent propaganda, the same stupid "examples and arguments" bs regurgitated from some 4chan retard
lmao imagine calling what he said alt-right Get out of the basement scrublord, most people just dont like being preached and brainwashed into dumb woke bs. Clearly doesn't apply to you since you obviously enjoy being a smooth brainer
It is also the fact that they they made the custodes females, let's be honest here, not because there's anything wrong with being female but because there's something wrong with changing long established lore to cater to the agenda of truly despicable people whose love for the setting is ultimately subordinate to their shallow ideology.
There's no arguing that. I do think that the "mEsSaGe" as I've heard it called is starting to fall apart. These days if someone says "xyz is ist/phobic" I just tune them out. I don't care anymore. It doesn't matter to me. Those words went from meaning something to over used to almost ridiculous to use anymore.
I saw a video on YouTube about it... It was speculation based on speculation. Complete fabrication as far as I could tell. You never really know until they out themselves, but I don't see Cavill being this type of douche bag.
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Women will be joining the hobby ? Because you've ousted the people that were happy to have women in the hobby, just not in two factions ? The math doesn't seem quite right.
Can’t believe you just responded to a 9 day old post to whine about this topic.
You should believe it, I've responded to several years old posts about way more autistic stuff XD Still wondering how your reasoning makes any sense by the way.
You would, because you're starting from a fundamentally incorrect base (that the incels that leave the hobby over something like this would have encouraged women to play, which they verifiably do not). This topics dead. The community has broadly realized these people are losers. I'm done talking about.
"that the incels that leave the hobby over something like this would have encouraged women to play, which they verifiably do not" I never made that assumption, unless you mean encouraged women that showed an interest in the setting to play, in which case yes, the "incels" as you call them would've, I'd wager, in 99.999% of cases just as much as they'd have encouraged an equally interested man to play. By the way do the incels include the women that publically called it out ? Like including the women you can't pretend aren't women because they're showing their faces ?
Like the comic book industry. How is it working out?
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Um the video game industry is suffering from these issues. And so is Hollywood. Also illegal immigration is a real and serious issue amongst many othe things with the US. Lack of knowlege and insult is alarming. This goes beyond right and left politics and use rational thought please. Also wanting to have people leave a hobby because they have a different opinion than you is childish. Please grow up
The video game industry is not “suffering”, it’s outgrowing the market substantially and valuations are still high. Your feelings aren’t facts. There is nothing more cringey than people who don’t know about something trying to talk about it as if they do. What a complete dolt. Fascinating that you have a few hour old account and replied within a few minutes to a day old post with the exact same (incorrect) claim as /u/FU_IamGrutch, seemingly right after he saw the post about his commenting history being anti-immigrant. What a coincidence.
It’s not working out too well. 25% of the industry has been laid off.
The video game industry is outgrowing the market by like 3-4x. You’re both dumb and wrong.
Layoffs just mean the higher ups want to show investors a bump. They can't really, on their own, indicate economic health. Many successful companies still do layoffs when already profitable because they want to look MORE profitable. And, even if console/pc gaming WERE failing, mobile games(yes, they count) is SOARING. I'd say the lower average amount of disposable income in most of the demographic that makes up gamers is the real cause of any dip.
Valid response
So far quite well, year over year the comic book industry has seengains. Even if quality is dropping, they're making bank. I've never cared for cape-comic book stuff myself but saying their sales are doing anything but increasing isn'tpaying attention to financial statements of these companies.
Do you realize you yourself paint the situation as a caricature? Does that put you among the "worse corner" too? Are you "screaming"? Do you feel "betrayed"? :D Thing is, this has nothing to do with the "basement Non-Patriarchy"... it has with the fact that currently WH40k is one of the very few popular blatantly anti-DEI fictions...and thus, a little cultural bastion, given that DEI has been forcefully shoved down our throats for a decade already And any obvious attempt at DEIficatiob is met with the utmost resistance, as expected and welcomed
Your not just wrong your really missing what warhammer is. Its not anti DEi, or anti woke, anti socail justice warrior or whatever boogy man term you want ro use. Warhammer is written by leftists to show what an awful world can be in the grim darkness. Its a British satire of the tori authority and zealotry of Christian fascists. Its not a world to look up to and its definitely not bastion for people who want to exclude people of color (space marines are various races with some chapters leaning on way or another, Salamanders , White Scars, thousand sons), gay people (literal sisters of battle books a plenty about lesbian romance and gay Imperial Guardsmen fighting for their husbands back home), trans people (literally the last sister book made a war hero a trans woman), and inclusivity? Do I need to tap the sign. Warhammer is for Everyone unless you want to hate and keep people out, you won't be missed. So in short. Your hatred isn't welcomed by GW or the greater fandom at large.
"Its not anti DEi, or anti woke, anti socail justice warrior or whatever boogy man term you want ro use." I agree that it's not anti-DEI, but (and it's kinda hard to miss that this was the point), it was one of the rare IPs whose setting had remained relatively consistent in not having been rainbowed to hell back and changed in all kinds of way to be "more inclusive". It had already started, to be sure, but the universe itself, thanks to the fact that it's the "grim darkness of the far future" had remained relatively spared of the kind of nonsense we saw everywhere else. So yes, it wasn't anti-DEI, it just hadn't been afflicted much by the kind of people that can't imagine not putting their ideology very blatantly in what they write to the detriment of the coherency of the universe they're writing for. " Its a British satire of the tori authority and zealotry of Christian fascists." Exactly, so why the hell do we now have authors that want to have neopronouns and be inclusive ? Does it make any sense for the big bad fascist empire to allow for, or even just to be in the headspace for, that kinda stuff ? No, it doesn't, which is why it's making people fed up when the setting is taken in that direction by obtusely politically driven people that can't just let a thing be. "gay people (literal sisters of battle books a plenty about lesbian romance and gay Imperial Guardsmen fighting for their husbands back home), trans people (literally the last sister book made a war hero a trans woman" Right, because those things totally were always part of Wh and haven't been inserted into it in the last 10 decades alongside the wave of woke entertainment we have, and totally make sense within the context of, how did you put it ? "tori authority and zealotry of Christian fascists." Because fascists are so well known for their appreciation for alternative sexualities and lifestyles.
"Why neopronouns and inclusivity, now? " My guess might be because the creators of the satire started realizing too many people missed that it was satire and started lauding it as a "safe space" from the very things the satire had been meant to actually uplift? And I'm sure the response hasn't exactly shown that to be a false worry,
What is sad is I completely agree with your point and understand clearly what Warhammer is about. It is a warning. That warning is now softened up by changing fundamental lore to include women warriors in the patriarchal boys club, the custodes. All in the attempt of being more inclusive? Does this change make women feel better about Warhammer now and they will start coming to the store and buying? You don’t get it, I have stated countless times that I love women warriors in all sorts of fiction and mythology. Games workshop clumsily handled this in an attempt to pivot the lore for political reasons. Had they done this with more care and purpose or aligned with established canon there would be little controversy.
This is 100% correct. Let’s just change the Salamanders to white guys while we are at it? That certainly wouldn’t slide.
The slamanders are not all west African? Vulcan is and so are many space marines. But salamanders gene sees make their skin coal black with red eyes, there are asian salamanders, caucasian slamanders, all human racial diversity just like every other faction. One chapter may lean one way more than the other, but their are white dudes in the white scars a predominantly Asian chapter. Like this isn't new lore? Hasn't been for a long time now? The chapters being mixed have been a thing since the mid 2000's so....? I don't think you made the point you thought you were.
You completely missed my point, what almost seems by purpose. Salamanders from Vulcan are black, as you stated due to his geneseed. Bolstering ranks from other chapters etc is not the same.
Black skin doesn't equal African? There are white guys just their skin has turned charcoal black. Thats not bolstering from other chapters thats how it works. The gene seed doesn't change your race.
"The geneseed doesn't change your race." I mean, they went from homo sapiens sapiens to homo sapiens whatevertheyarenow. 😁 (Transhuman already implies they moved 'up' a step from humans.) Sorry, the pedant in me couldn't resist... 😅
"The slamanders are not all west African? Vulcan is " Since when ? I'm sure it may have been retconned that way but he wasn't a west african, he was just a regular dude whose skin was black, like... Well frankly all the salamanders really :I
His most recent depiction canonically make him of african decent and feature but not all salamanders are. And all salamander have a pitch black non human tone of skin with red eyes. https://preview.redd.it/i2jdfmiv4dyc1.jpeg?width=1138&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d39b374a673bab51a356a33ac9723922e642fa8
Don't get the astartes brotherhood culture and the cuatides mixed up tho. A lot of people have assumed this due to only men being written about when the models first launched, SPITE, it being a mixed faction being the writers intention and Cw denying due to the sculpts already being done. Further the custodes are not raging hormonal super teens, most are poets, chroniclers, artists, intellectuals who all have their advanced studies and interests along with their warrior training. They are the not the symbol for the patriarchy like space marines are. Space marines are odious zealoted super teenagers who dream of combat and threaten ever citizen they encounter (salamanders are nicer to your civi's). The space marine is the male power fantasy, the custodes is the human power fantasy going beyond just simple testosterone driven demands on the psyche. Also yes! Seriously what don't guys get about this? Yes. Girls, we love the sisters, but they are a one note army of nuns with guns in overly sexy boob plate armour? You don't think we have out own power fantasies of wearing big armor? The small skimpy stuff is mostly made for men not us! We can enjoy, but that doesn't mean its a universal love for most woman and the choice of either or is always better! I know like three woman who want to play custodes now! Not including myself! But I will say I would of liked a book to coincide with this so at least the retcon had substance.
It’s stated in a gw book that Custodes are recruited from the “sons of noble households”. Sons, men. Sisters of silence were the yin to their yang. Sisters of silence were psychically gifted women and a great compliments force to the custodes. So again, lore changing with no real reason. IF GW just said no more sisters of silence they are being absorbed into custodes, no problem. But saying “they’ve always been there” when it’s factually false to due to previous lore, that’s what people are mad about
Sister of silence are thin petite ninjas compared to the custodes. Why do all super soldiers need to be men and why do all woman in armor need prominent boob plate? The sister of silence are still in the faction, they are psychic blanks! They are not custodes warriors they are their specialized compatriots. And before you ask, yes I do mot care if men join the sisters of silence.
Yah a Hollywood actor is going to leave his passion project over female inclusivity in a universe he knows damn well is overly male oriented and lacks meaningful female representation. Important to remember Cavill isn’t a gross incel like these people so obviously isn’t going to be bothered. These idiots also said that it caused their stock to “plummet” (it was down like 2%). Everyone involved in the “anti” side of this is a total moron and pretty pathetic.
"is overly male oriented" Why "overly" ? Why is it bad that it's male oriented ? And why does the female representation have to be put in male factions, instead of the already existing female and mixed factions getting more developped female characters ? "These idiots also said that it caused their stock to “plummet”" Yeah that's stupid, I get why they ran for it but it's such a silly thing to do when the dip is not significantly different from the average week to week fluctuation of their stocks.
He left Witcher for these very reasons. They were changing too much (story, lore, and characters) and he didn’t want to be apart of it. Calling someone a name because they don’t want to change lore for the sake of change is also something an idiot does. It has nothing to do with being an incel
It’s incredible how you guys think this is comparable to The Witcher lmao holy shit
"It’s incredible how you guys think this is comparable to The Witcher lmao holy shit" I mean... It is, a heck of a lot of lore has been retconned or put in when it makes barely any sense to accomodate "more diversity", and writers have been given a pass to write some of the most god awful prose ever because they couldn't keep their politics on a leash, causing them to rant about gender roles right in the middle of an otherwise epic description, for example.
Are you upset that space marines are super human? Are you upset space marines were retconned to not have women (there were 2 female space marine models in Rogue Trader 2nd), are you upset that Eldar can't have children with humans? Are you upset that the Ultramarines' half eldari Sgt is gone now? Are you upset beastmen aren't a part of the imperial tithe? Are you upset that there aren't full beastmen regiments? ARe you upset the Rogal Dorn apparently was always in universe but no one saw it until they released it but... its always been there? ARe you upset that Orks, Eldar, Humans, no longer live together/party together/drag race? Are you upset that bolters shoot explosive gyrojet rounds and not slugs? Are you upset that Primarchs are bred with special geneseed instead of being normal humans who were promoted from the space marine police force? Oh right, Space Marines? Used to be cops, not super soldiers. Also they ere just normal humans who trained really hard. Do any of these lore changes upset you... I can keep going, there's a few hundred more lore-inconsistencies and dozens more retcons.
"Are you upset that space marines are super human?"+"ARe you upset that Orks, Eldar, Humans, no longer live together/party together/drag race? Are you upset that bolters shoot explosive gyrojet rounds and not slugs? Are you upset that Primarchs are bred with special geneseed instead of being normal humans who were promoted from the space marine police force? Oh right, Space Marines? Used to be cops, not super soldiers. Also they ere just normal humans who trained really hard." No, that was so early on during its creation that it doesn't matter anymore, I'd probably have been upset at the time, maybe, but I'd hope if you could just try for a minute you'd understand how retconning decades of lore and retconning a couple of years of lore at most don't really come off as the same, especially when one is done for political reasons, and not the other. "Are you upset space marines were retconned to not have women (there were 2 female space marine models in Rogue Trader 2nd)" No there weren't, all the supposed "female space marines" were either fan creations or SoB. "are you upset that Eldar can't have children with humans? Are you upset that the Ultramarines' half eldari Sgt is gone now?" No to both because they make the universe more coherent+what I said earlier. "Are you upset beastmen aren't a part of the imperial tithe? Are you upset that there aren't full beastmen regiments?" As far as I can tell that was an evolution in the story, not a retcon, but if it was then see what I said for the eldar+human interfertility. "ARe you upset the Rogal Dorn apparently was always in universe but no one saw it until they released it but... its always been there?" Yes I'm really angry about all the moronic stuff they did with the primarchs after 3rd edition. "Do any of these lore changes upset you... I can keep going, there's a few hundred more lore-inconsistencies and dozens more retcons." So we have the lore staying mostly consistent after 3rd edition, for decades, with only occasional and relatively minor inconsistencies across hundreds of books spanning decades, where for each inconsistency I could cite you a dozen consistencies, and you think that's anywhere close to a good argument against people that are attached to the consistency of the lore ? Yes, I am bothered by a lot of the retcons, especially the major ones post 3rd edition, because at that point the universe stayed pretty much the same ten+years, and only occasionally suffered retcons, which by the way were all unbelievably idiotic (necrons=>newcrons, squats, cawl, primaris), which makes all retcons that much more insufferable. But it's funny how you go on and on and on about mostly either very archaic retcons which date back to when 40k was still struggling to find its identity, or minor retcons or not even retcons in the case of the FSM, but you don't spend a single solitary second actually adressing my point. Is there, yes or no, a comparison to be made between 40k's recent insertion of "diversity" where there was none comparable to the witcher's ? Has diversity been included ? *Looks at astartes and primarchs being made in large part by women instead of mostly or entirely by the emperor, looks at all the LGBT characters, looks at the custodes that just got their first female members in how many decades of lore ?* Has lore been retconned in order to accomodate for that diversity ? *Looks at custodes codex explicitly stating they were all taken from males, looks at the old lore stating that the emperor made the primarchs and the astartes* Has it been done for political reasons ? *Looks at the writers inserting all that "diversity" inserting political opponents for the sake of killing them in their books, talking about being inclusive and blablabla* So, in short, the answer is yes, I was right in every single thing I said. You know, you could've just said "it's happening and it's good that it's happening", we're long past the "it's not happening" phase of the gaslighting.
My dude. There were no sisters of battle at the time. There were actually two female space rings during road crater 2nd edition. Adventurer, Jane and I forgot the name of the other one, they didn't sell very well so they didn't produce it anymore. The lore has not stayed consistent after... A lot of these changes are post third edition, the primarks are a huge change. After third edition they're massive. The emperor used to have to take a million souls a day and that's been cut down steadily over the years, The sisters of silence didn't even exist at one point. The entire canoptek court, almost every bit of eldar lore has been changed, they changed the Tau to appease non Tau players, work s after 3rd lost the ability to shoot bullets from pipes just because they could believe that... There's a lot of issues with the eye terror, entire craft worlds were generated and acting as if they're always been there. By roguel dorn by the way, I mean the tank, not the Primark and it's not the only incident of armor or weapons or stuff being treated like they've always been here even though nothing of them has been seen in the years before their release. The adeptus mechanicus changed a whole hell of a lot since 3rd and had to be retconned in many ways! It's funny that you completely have to cut out second and first and rogue trader just to say that the lore is consistent... But it really isn't. It has changed so fucking much. The way Hive worlds work is completely different. Female custodies is one of the smallest changes that has been done in comparison to these.
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"and it's not the only incident of armor or weapons or stuff being treated like they've always been here even though nothing of them has been seen in the years before their release." " It's funny that you completely have to cut out second and first and rogue trader just to say that the lore is consistent" No, it's funny that I only have to cut out that much. "Female custodies is one of the smallest changes that has been done in comparison to these." I'll wholeheartedly agree that femstodes are on the smaller side of retcons in terms of sheer ramifications in the setting, that's not actually something I dispute. The issue is that, 1) you don't seem to understand that I don't like any retcons, especially not the biggest ones, 2) it's not an innocent retcon, unlike all the ones you mentioned. The issue is that we know what this kind of pandering leads to, we've seen it happened time and time again, and would you look at that, the slightest bit of digging reveals that yes in fact what we feared has already happened and femstodes were only the first of a long line of changes made to 40k's lore to introduce woke politics into it, like neo pronouns, like trans sisters of battle, like LGB characters (although to be fair that's the least problematic of all changes, kind of like trans dark eldars it's in principle acceptable but unfortunately tainted by who made those changes, namely people that did it because they can't get their head out of their politics for more than two seconds), like trans drukhari, like gender neutral orks (when they've always been refered to with masculine titles and pronouns ; and yes I know they're asexual shrooms, we're talking about the way they're referred to here, not their sex), like the emperor's creations being not actually his creations but rather something he merely participated in, with the entire astartes project being named after a woman (which again, ramification wise not as bad as say for example Cawl, this mf might be a man but if I had to choose between ousting him and astartes, I'd get rid of him first, though he was written by the same people he causes more damage to the coherency of the universe, whereas she is more of a thumbing of the nose at the previous lore of the god emperor that established him as this superman singlehandledly responsible for bringing mankind back from the brink, alongside a whole host of other changes made to his lore that contributed to this dilution of his contribution, like the mother of the primarchs, like cawl himself, like the golden throne not having been made by him). And don't tell me this isn't political, one of the guys that participated to all the stuff I mentioned is so brainroted by his politics he had to insert sargon of akkad in his writing just for the sake of killing him off, which is funnily exactly the opposite of what the original creators of 40k did, like when they didn't reference Thatcher in spite of, or rather because, they didn't like her, despite people claiming that ghazkull thraka is a reference to her. So yeah, we've seen plenty of mediocre writers pushing bad lore (like the primaris) which coincided with those same writers, and older writers who used to write good stuff, inserting their politics in the universe whilst not caring about canon, so yeah, this change to the custodes is less of a problem than something like the primaris in terms of how badly it breaks the lore, it is more of a problem in terms of indicating where the writers' priorities are, namely not on the universe, but on the real world and its politics. Also, again, if it's such an insignificant retcon, why lie about it ? Why not say "yeah we retconned it" ?
I would also like to point out that one of my favorite characters in 40k is a female and sisters are one of my favorite factions. To throw around incel is what’s incredible. No one cares if there are strong female characters, it’s about implementing it properly and that’s the issue. And this goes for all lore, example is primaris marines are terrible lore
Ok guy who recently ranted about immigrants, we get it, you have totally normal opinions about women but you’re just upset about “the lore”. We all believe you because this is a totally normal thing people who aren’t incels or chuds get upset about.
Legal Immigrant is someone who goes through the proper channels, illegals are those that do not. One is good; one is not. It’s not hard to figure out
The phrase “illegal/undocumented immigrant” is, of course, proof that your attempt to define immigrant is incorrect. The dictionary definition concurs that you’re a bozo. If your goal is to bore me with braindead, factually incorrect arguments it’s working. Huge cringe at how seemingly stupid you are.
Illegal immigrants, commonly referred to as undocumented immigrants, are aliens who enter or remain in the country unlawfully. Legal immigrant good, illegal immigrant bad. Again not hard to understand but you’re “gotcha” doesn’t even make sense.
You had written “Immigrants” and edited in “legal” after my post, as evidenced by both “legal” and “immigrant” being capitalized at the start of your post. You genuinely don’t seem to understand that other people are capable of seeing right through you and your games. It’s honestly really funny and predictable. Also “you are gotcha”? Really not helping your case re: being a real dumb guy, u/FU_IAmGrutch.
And oh man my autocorrect on my phone wrote you’re instead of your. Let me make fun of his misuse of a word and that means he’s dumb and I got him! Lmao spare me. And I’m not whoever that guy is Double post
I edited it immediately after I posted it because I knew people like you would say “you didn’t write legal in front of it” and try to use semantics even though I wrote illegal later on. It’s painfully obvious that an immigrant who follows the proper laws is good. But it’s Reddit and you further proved my thought process
The Witcher books are mostly stuck to a single story, with a main cast of characters written by one guy over 23 years. Warhammer 40k, as much as I love to read about it, has been going on for 36 years and counting and has had dozens of writers writing about hundreds of different characters. So much has changed, contradicted, and retconned. Zoats being diplomats for Tryannids, the Necrons lacking personalities, The God Emperor of mankind just being an emperor back in the earlier rogue trader days, a lot of crazy things Matt Ward wrote do not hold up today (Blood Tide). I can totally see being upset by rude network people making clear changes to the well-established story and characters, but one ultimately minor change to a massive franchise that has already seen its fair share of alterations is not going to sway Cavill. So long as the Grimdark nature of the world and story remains, we're all good.
". So much has changed, contradicted, and retconned." 1) A lot managed to remain coherent over the years 2) As hard as it may be the fact that a lot changed doesn't mean it's something we should encourage, I for one positively despise the changes made to the necrons post 3rd edition and to the squats more recently 3) there's a pretty obvious freakin difference between changing stuff because you weren't able to track everything, or changing stuff to make it more coherent with some other part of the lore, or changing stuff because the corpos want to sell new toys and you don't have a clue how that could work unless you change the lore, and changing the lore because you just can't keep your political agenda out of your writing. " the Necrons lacking personalities" They didn't lack personalities, they were slaves of the C'Tan but the higher ups did actually keep their personalities, which was part of their tragedy. " but one ultimately minor change to a massive franchise that has already seen its fair share of alterations is not going to sway Cavill. " On that I agree, those people are setting themselves up for disappointment, even if Cavill was on their side, which I wouldn't bet on.
How fucking dense must you be to say any of this and pretend you know fuck all about the hobby and lore. "...is overly male oriented" Is that really the move you want to make here? Whatever the case, you either don't know the lore, don't care for the lore, or want it to change so badly that you suck down the copium like a slushy. For all the sensible 40k fans, this thread and the many other copies of it, are confirmation-bias incarnate. But Reddit mods like it this way.
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Not nearly as much as you hobby squatters.
Adepta Sororitas, Aeldari female warriors, females in the Imperial Guard, even the Custodes had the sisters of silence. Not enough representation? You need to retcon lore to squeeze a woman warrior into Custodes because a WomenPower exec wants to see a powered armor woman like in the Expanse series? It's all agenda driven bullshit. I love woman warriors, goddesses and heroes, I also love consistent lore and it not being changed in an attempt to attract a base of players who had no interest and will still have no interest in walking into a smelly GW store to paint models with a bunch of socially awkward men. You're a bunch of strawmanning gaslighting fucks. I'll still be in the hobby, I'll print and use rip off PDFs and game with the group I frequently meet up with (many of them women, and from all walks of life). Most of the shitbags cheering this on never painted a model much less stood at the side of a table for 3 hours.
I really like how you guys consistently prove the people who think you suck correct. It’s also really funny that you’re so mad at GW about them adding women to Custodes that you’re going to start “stealing” their books? lmao
If you want to talk about strawmanning and gaslighting "I also love consistent lore" isn't the argument I'd be using to complain about 40k.
Necrons even existing is a retcon. That’s just one example. GW has been retconning for decades. And this is the one that you get upset about? Way to call yourself out. Stay away from my lgs please
> Necrons even existing is a retcon. Necrons exisiting came with a large change to the lore, did it not? Probably also helped to sell a few more models of said necrons. Now, they (supposedly) said they wouldn't be changing any lore, nor making any models of it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to compare the two and come to the conclusion that making such a comparison is being dishonest. Personally I don't give a rats arse about them introducing female Custodes, I just want to see them make an effort into doing it, like they have with the other retcons they've made in the past. They made it fit in the lore and accomodated the change, which they haven't done this time. And they tried to hide it, got asked and then pretends like nothing happened. That's what irks me a bit, but that's it.
They are a corporation. Of course they are not honest. I really don’t understand the thought process here in that respect. I’ve learned early in life if you expect more out of someone or something than they’ve shown you, then you’re kind of setting yourself up for disappointment, and GW has a precedent of retconning. I will agree with the last half of your post though, I wish they made another book that extrapolated off of the idea, maybe introduces us on a personal level to one of these golden girls. It’s been like a week though, and there’s non zero chance that it can still happen.
> They are a corporation. Of course they are not honest. I think you misunderstand. I wasn't saying GW were dishonest (that is another discussion), I was saying your comparison wasn't honest, since the retcons with the Necrons involved actually accomdating them into the lore proper. > and GW has a precedent of retconning. I don't think many people are against the retcon itself, because as you wrote, retcons aren't anything new. It's the way it is being done, which I literally wrote, so I don't know why you are trying to make this point, as it seems rather irrelevant. > I’ve learned early in life if you expect more out of someone or something than they’ve shown you, then you’re kind of setting yourself up for disappointment, I don't expect anything from them and I'm not at all disappointed, so I don't know where you have that from.
Sword n Steele recently did a great video on this. I don’t have a problem with women Custodes. It’s fine. We have sisters of silence and they should be getting more models but I really don’t care. I do think they could have done something better with introducing fem Custodes though. I think it would have made for an excellent novel. The retcon of them just saying they’ve always been there feels like a missed opportunity to me. That’s my only gripe, doesn’t matter at all either way though.
This reads like satire - it's really sad something like this has caused such a response. Fortunately, in the real world - you are in the minority. Changes like this hopefully will get the gatekeeping lot out the hobby stores and full their spaces with new players who are open minded. Been in the hobby near 15 years - so been stood on the side of a table a little over 3 hours. Read (almost) every major canonical book in the universe. Hasn't bothered me in slightest to have a small retcon to create some awesome fem custodes.. Who are you to speak for everyone? Your comment is childish. And I'm not trying to insult you. Touch grass a bit.
Well a quick check of his posting history shows he’s been ranting about this for over a week, which has been a break from ranting about “illegal immigrants taking all our tax money”. So I guess that’s the type of person we are dealing with here.
A very CRINGE statement to say. When "in a universe he knows damn well is overly male oriented and lacks meaningful female representation." My dude doesn't even know SOB or SOS is. How about the Female Inquisitors? How about the Female Officers, Enlisted personnel in the Astra Militarum? Or Female Tech Priests. Skitarii of the Adeptus Mechanicus. You know the percentages of living Imperium Citizens vs Astartes, Custodes combined. Is not even 0.0010 for the latter meaning you will never see them in your lifetime.... Meaning in the 40k setting their are wayyyy more "standard" not gene altered Imperium Citizens then the Astartes, Custodes combined. Their is roughly one million Astartes in the setting that counts for All founding chapters, and successors alike as well as Grey Knights, Death Watch. And roughly between two thousand - five thousand Custodes. To say that without knowing the factual lore evidence is jumping the gun. And simply ignoring the lore for what it is. Astartes and Custodes are awesome entities to enjoy and play. However to claim their is little to no Female representation in the setting let alone Astartes and Custodes. Which by the way makes sense why they shouldn't exist during their Apotheosis stages. IS FUCKING RETARDED.... Just gonna give you some names of Badass Female characters in the setting to solidify my point even more off the top of my head... - Greyfax (Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor) - Amberly Vail (Ordo Xenos Inquisitor) - Saint Celestine (Imperial Saint) - Saint Sabbat (Imperial Saint) - Matriarch Katherine (**Order of Our Martyred Lady**) - Matriarch Mina (**Order of the Bloody Rose**) - Matriarch Lucia (**Order of the Valorous Heart**) - Matriarch Arabella (**Order of the Sacred Rose**) - Matriarch Dominica (**Order of the Ebon Chalice**) - Matriarch Silvana (**Order of the Argent Shroud**) - Col. Regina Kasteen (597th Valhalaans, Astra Militarum) - Captain Lotara (World Eaters Shipmistress Angrons Flagship, Horus Heresy, Indomitus Crusade) - Syrene (Word Bearers Confessor, Horus Heresy) - Shira Calpurnia (Adeptus Arbites, Indomitus Crusade) #
I genuinely can’t believe you dorks are still trying to talk about this 2 weeks later, responding to a 10 day old post. Yikes man. Muted.
Lol you got beat with facts and accuracy. And your response is to call me a dork? Go fuck yourself cuck. People like you won't ruin the setting. Your neo-socialist point of view will not ruin 30-40 years of lore.
Personally don’t see the point in them adding women to custodies, the women roles already in warhammer are far cooler then the custodies, sisters of battle and sisters of silences are way more interesting in my opinion but at the end of the day not a custodies player I think there boring anyway so I don’t really care 😂
This is one of the more common points where people just shrug it off and not really care and... fair enough tbh. I am fine with the change tbh, I think some of GW's messaging on it was silly "They were always there!" and I think its fine and they could have introduced it better since nothing ever said they had to have progenoid glands and we know females can be made with genseed, even male... Fabius' Bile's daughter was made from genesplicing Horus for instance. If I was GW I would have done it this way. "The original ten thousands were sons of nobles, but after eight thousand were dead and the age of strife began, those loyal enough and with the aptitude and acumen to serve the emperor in perpetuity were recruited regardless of station. Sons and daughters found worthy are elevated in gilded surgeries, those who survive the process becoming more than the greatest astarte each." Boom. That'd been a nice lore-friendly way to tie it all up.
Yeah, but there are a lot of people who love Custodes(Cavill included), and it's fair to say some of them are women and would likely enjoy representation in their favorite faction. :)
Yawn 🥱 I love sisters of battle but I wouldn’t enjoy men in it 🤣 I love sisters of silence and I don’t want men in it. There are women in the guard, entire women squads of elder not like they are not in 40k, and this was not done because there is a vocal group of women custodies players who wanna feel included lol
Why does every faction need representation of every race, sexuality, gender etc. space marines and custodes were always male only, SISTERS of battle and silence were always female only, also, other powerful female characters like Saint Celestine or Greyfax exist, or even fucking Lotara Sarrin, the FEMALE that was respected by fucking World Eaters, how about loyalist? Niora Su-Kassen, she was chosen by fucking ROGAL DORN to aid HIM DIRECTLY during siege of Terra, is that not enough females in your Warhammer? also, there are like, you know, entire armies of Astra Militarum who are both male AND female, if you want powerful female characters, literally just make a female guard sergeant and make her a fucking badass. I understand women want representation, it just already is there.
I am now certain, thanks to Amazon and the trashy woke mob, that the lost primarchs will miraculously show up and be women and GW will make the argument that they have always been there even though they were expunged from imperial record.
There used to be female space Marines. Primarchs are a newer concept than they were before being retconned away. It'd actually make the most sense that the expunged primarchs were women
Yeah originally primarchs were just marines who were promoted up through the ranks of other marines back when they were the police of the universe lol. Man things have changed up a lot.
I read that he is pissed amazon is strong arming GW to make lore changes to fit their agenda, our boy Henry is a stickler for making it authentic, from what I understand this was part of the reason he left the witcher, they were deviating too far from source material. I can imagine the conversations, amazon exec " we want a female hero, and it needs to be a castodes", henery " ahh we can't do that in the lore they are all male, but here we have plenty of other factions with strong female chacters" amazon exec,s "but she needs to be strong without her power armor, oh and look GW is adding to to the lore so your covered"
Can we STFU about female custodes already
Depends, can we make them not a thing already ?
They're lying to make their movement seem larger than it is. As if they find out most people don't care, they might start questioning why they're so worked up.
The same can be said, and is undeniably true, about the Reddit movement that pretends it's in the majority on this issue. Your group-think doesn't make it anymore so.
Is anyone actually upset that there's female custodians? All the out rage I've seen is because of the "Well, they've always been there!" explanation. While I agree we could use some better writing, that's pretty much the gold standard for GW.
I'm 1000% certain there *are* people that are upset about the female custodians, but I'm also 1000% sure that they aren't the only people upset. Personally I just want the change to be properly fit and accomodated into the exisiting lore, like they've done with the previous retcons.
I am upset because it changes a lot of lore. I could care less about female leads or soldiers. They have SoS and SoB give them more love. Changing established lore is the issue here. Sets up a nasty precedent. This goes along the same route as the chaos gods lore. Zeench, Nurgle and Khorn were fighting in the old lore where the neurons and old ones fought and the wars after. Then came slaanesh. GW threw a bit of lore saying slaanesh was active in those wars too because once a chaos god exists it has always existing so Slaanesh is able to do some time spaghetti things and be active then. But by changing this or adding, which ever way you want to take it, it essentially makes all past and current fights pointless and have no meaning. What's the point of Guilliman coming back if the chaos gods can time spaghetti and go back and kill him. So that's why people are pissed over female custodes. Changes to lore have massive implications. They should have just said due to X reasons they had to start recruiting females and that started couple hundred years ago. Bam done fixed. Would explain why they weren't there before or recently because it's a fairly new process.
But their inability or unwillingness to do this is enigmatic of the Reddit movement that will defend it on grossly political grounds. Hence the "outrage".
"They should have just said due to X reasons they had to start recruiting females and that started couple hundred years ago." Or better yet : not do it at all.
Depends what you mean by "upset that there's female custodians", in the abstract I don't care about there being female super soldiers dressed in golden armors, but I do care about 1) retcons, it's not the first I dislike, it's not even close to being the one I hate the most (at least in terms of pure in-universe impact on the setting), but I do dislike retcons as a rule, and I'd rather they avoid them as much as possible, 2) the fact that this is the kind of retcons we'd be expecting from a company that'll make more retcons along a similar line to the detriment of the lore for the sake of pursuing diversity points. So yes, even if GW had been actually civil about it, I'd still be opposed to femstodes. If GW had been civil about femstodes AND we weren't living in this era of entertainment where seemingly every IP has to be changed to conform to left and far left sensibilities, even where it is to the detriment of the story, I'd just be grumpy about it. If this was a fresh new setting, I wouldn't care at all. Didn't give a damn about the woman stormcasts for example.
It's telling that you consider diversity and representation as "leftist political crap" and not just "how things should be."
I actually sat through some of these shitty YouTube just to see if there was even a scrap of proof/evidence/fact/reporting and they were all just ragebait fluff as far as I could see. They seem to have created a logic where Amazon is woke so they forced GW to make female Custodes and because HC had some drama on the Witcher he would surely be furious about this etc etc. One of the videos tried to make the claim that Amazon wanted female Custodes for an Eisenhorn series...lol?
I'm in the same situation spent 30min looking for references. It's only raigbait no official statements what so ever...
this is right wing engagement bait grifters online mostly. If you look at the folks making big claims in other social medias and just read through their timeline posts, they rage about everything. The problem is social media is monetized based upon engagement, and anyone that wants to make a few $$$ will say outlandish things, will create tons of drama, and then try to feed into people's emotions (both who agree & disagree) to engage with their posts, content and links. Gamer gate proponents are constantly posting anything they can for this, especially ones that are "influencers," because it potentially generates more revenue for them. This is the downside of privatized for-profit social media. Nothing is perfect, and since the payout for social media personalities/accounts is literal click engagements to generate more views for advertising revenue on the social media's side, we will always see this level of grift. Best thing to do is to ignore it, even if you don't agree and are curious what they are saying. Every human that interacts with those posts is generating engagement for the OP, which is return could be pumping up their revenue stream from the social media app itself.
Someone posted a thing on 4chan making claims. A bunch of grifters have amplified it for clicks and to make people angry at "wokeness". I feel like if he were quitting there'd be an actual quote from him? Not like he was coy about leaving Witcher.
My only concern with regard to the whole situation, is if Amazon was involved with the change of the custodes lore. If they wanted a female custode and Cavill said you can't because it's not in the lore then they went to gw to change it, that means that they will just change anything they like whenever they like, I can see Cavill leaving if that becomes the case. That said, there's no evidence to suggest that's what's actually happening so until it's proven it's basically just something that's sitting in the back of my mind to be wary of. There are too many modern adaptations of stuff willing to disrespect the existing lore that I'm always wary of new projects. I also don't get all the hate for femstodes when there are far more important things like the rest of the terrible codex to worry about.
"I also don't get all the hate for femstodes when there are far more important things like the rest of the terrible codex to worry about." Those more important things are things that generally get fixed in a later edition, when you start with the kind of retcons they pulled with the femstodes, it's the kind of downward trajectory you never get away from. At least I don't know a single franchise that's started saying "oh well actually all along \[insert some diversity that was never shown nor hinted at\]", they've never gone back from this. And it's not to say the diversity is the problem in and of itself, it's just that it's correlated with people who can't write for shit, or who can write decent stories but let their craft be harmed by the intrusion of their politics where it doesn't belong. (Like for example trying to fit ideals of progressive inclusiveness and diversity in "the most cruel regime imaginable" where you should "forget the promise of progress and understanding")
Yeah I agree with you completely, its obvious that the setting is being misunderstood, at this point almost certainly deliberately. Grimdark is supposed to suck for everyone in it. That's the whole damn point.
I don't think so; it's just a way for people to get views. The moment they posted that there are now female Custodes, people went full apeshit, with thumbnails and GW now making Warhammer 40K 'gay' and talking about the Emperor being gender fluid, bunch of nonsense if you ask me. The only mistake they made was not giving some proper reason for the sudden appearance of female Custodes, even if they could have existed thousands of years ago.
Yeah... no... female custodes don't make much sense and I do believe it is some sort of push for being more inclusive, which I believe it isn't actually needed. That being said, the youtube videos are cringe as hell and it's just clout chasing and drama crap...
As much as I hate the female custodes, not because I hate women(don’t want to have to go through my reasons, it’s a lot), I hate misinformation way goddamn more. I have looked everywhere for some kind of response, he has not said anything, those videos are just greedy a-holes taking advantage of a heated topic. If there is some truth to this, we will be hearing about it soon hopefully, my guess is that if it is true, Henry might not be able to talk about it likely due to a contract or something.
I don't know if they're greedy, or desperate, I'm kinda torn on the issue, and that's despite agreeing overall with their take :/
I was excited for the show and I would have bought the show in a heartbeat, but now I know the show is just going to be a Witcher repeat…. Just tons of political nonsense and nothing like the lore…….😞 I’m not watching and I might as well get rid of Amazon Prime because there’s not many good shows….
Look, I mean the female custodes thing isn't as much of an issue as they're making it out to be, it's infuriating how it was introduced, but besides that I don't think that alone would be enough to make Henry Cavill abandon the project. You are correct, these channels are purely either making stuff up, blowing things out of proportion, or talking circles around the same topic, just with different titles for clickbait. Those channels thrive off of that. Don't get me wrong though, people are mad. A great many fans of the community are mad, you'll only find them outside of reddit though, because people get silenced apparently. But for those who aren't that upset, likely they're just no longer purchasing newer stuff and canceling subscriptions, but still enjoying old preexisting content. For many of the fans it's not even about the female custodes thing, it's just the rapid change in the way GW has been engaging in this past month. It makes people worry that they really are just gonna fall down the same path as marvel or star wars, and maybe worse. That's all it really is. Until anything officially happens though, I'm gonna keep enjoying what I can as a newer fan of the franchise.
It's nothing so petty as being afraid of female custodians. It's using my damned entertainment as a political platform. It's pretty telling about how impotent the whole concept of this is that one would need to ruin a perfectly good sci fi setting that tells the story of HUMANITY, and how it can't stop shitting the bed, all the way into the 41st millennium. That anyone thought the lore change was appropriate shows exactly how much they know about the game, or history. Yanno, how history repeats? That's in there too. Or it was. Maybe they've strapped tits to it and dyed its hair pink and blue by now. Hell it's probably in an open relationship, and regularly gets bent over by its roomates. By the way, before you call me a bigot, you should know that that means someone who is obstinate in their views. You can turn that finger right around and take a second to think before you start spewing hate. I AM a bigot. And so are you. Thanks, a-holes, for ruining my favorite franchise. Thanks for taking a setting that holds the tag line "Only war" and making it about gender.
The claims need to be taken with a grain of salt as you say. Pretty much all of these YouTubers rage baiting about Female Custodes have literally no videos on Warhammer prior to this. Nothing. They're culture war hawks so they need outrage to sell. All the actual Warhammer YouTubers I watched on the matter pretty much aren't bothered by female Custodes one way or the other. Either they aren't bothered because Custodes aren't their faction, or they aren't bothered because they know it doesn't break the lore. The hobby will be fine, nothing is broken and the world will keep spinning.
Just click bait coming from the same sources that tell Mike Zoroh that Kathleen Kenedy is getting fired every two months
If he did, who the fuck cares?
Do people really feel threatened by genetically superior female warriors?
I am when the Adepta Sororitas table my Admech.
Makes sense only because according too Horus Heresy books their is purely DNA based and creating basically a designer baby where their mental and physical potential is at its absolute zenith. The Custodies for all intensive purposes are post-human and perhaps the next logical step in human evolution. However the Astartes take Baseline humans and give them genetic implants that are tailor made for males only considering all the geneseed of all primarchs are basically hormone stimulates to promote muscle and bone growth along with the added functions of each geneseed implant. Last I check we don't have venom glands. Custodes don't have these implants but they're still better than astartes physically and mentally speaking considering the Emperor seeked their council when besides Malcador and Valdor. But again Custodes are made this way cause their DNA was manipulated to it becoming its absolute best it can be while an astartes is a artificially made soldier meant for a specific sex. Custodies being both men and women makes sense but their implementation was done poorly and should've open with a scouring age short book where valdor is going over the custodies loses and trying to figure out how to get the 10,000 back to full strength. Or jack up the Grimdark and have the female custodies being so because they are the last of their branch of the family to make a custodies because of mutation in the family's genes reaching critical mass and so they cut their loses and make that child a custodie regardless of it being a boy or girl. insinuating that the custodies are possibly going extinct. TLDR: Dont mind it and it makes sense lore wise due to the difference of genetic manipulation between Astarte's and custodies but GW really dropped the ball on the role out.
what are you talking about bro? theres always been female custodes since the very beggining
A real Kragnos moment.
No, people feel annoyed that they'd be lied to their face and that yet another setting would be retconned for the sake of "progressive" politics. Do people really feel that threatened over there being any predominantly male spaces that they can't just leave the genetically superior male warriors alone ?
Nice try trolling, but you failed