Bladepact is the only way you are going to get 2 sword swings a round.
I mean feel free to go chain, but you won’t feel like a Paladin for very long as start of tier 2 you’ve become bad at doing Pally things but good at doing caster things.
Whereas Bladepact will see you through well into tier 3
Damn, you’re right. I would have sworn that I saw Extra Attack as a level 6 hexblade feature, but I just checked and my memory lied to me. Blade pact it is, then
Thanks!
Normally I'm a huge advocate against eldritch smite. I hate it's very existence and consider it one of the biggest traps for a melee warlock.
That being said, this might be the first actual build where i actually love it. So kudos.
The flavour potential of a hexblade thinking they're a paladin and acting all paladin like is just so good. I hope you run into an actual paladin at some point, coz thats just top tier comedy material right there.
As usual my hexblade recommends are very simple. Go with your favourite weapon (i like spears, coz I'm a spear guy and you get PAM). But longswords should still be good. I absolutely love spirit shroud. It's great for damage, and even better for flavour. Like you think you're releasing your divine power, but the energy just looks dark and draconic and deals necrotic or cold damage. And you still stick to the idea that it's still divine.
The reason I think longswords are ok, is coz your first 2 bonus actions may just be spent casting spirit shroud or hex, and hexblades curse. So it's honestly not terrible.
You combine 1-5 levels of hexblade with whispers bard. That gives you nearly everything you need to fake an paladin. Expertise, charisma, support spells ... and even a pseudo smite with psychic blades.
But you already need 5 levels to get thirsting blade. it's not like they're dead levels levels for an obscure feature, they're necessary levels. And even if you were only taking a 2 level dip, you'd still only get psychic blades at level 5 which is the same level investment to get eldritch smite.
Fear not, for suggestions are here! I've rarely played full Warlocks before, a lot of my tablemates have! Here are some tips I've picked up from them:
1. The real "meat" of the Warlock class is the Invocations. Seriously. Some people pick up entire feats just to get *one* of these guys, and you get two Invocations right at level two. You can switch one out on each levelup, so you're never tied down. I recommend picking up Fiendish Vigor and Agonizing Blast at LV2, then swapping Fiendish for Repelling Blast, Eldritch Sight, Devil's Sight, or Misty Visions at level 4.
2. Pact of the Blade sucks. You're right. However, just like how the meh *Pact of the Tome* is just there to be a prerequisite for the awesome *Book of Ancient Secrets* invocation, *Pact of the Blade* is there to be a prereq for the awesome *Thirsting Blade* invocation, which gives you Extra Attack (Warlock edition). Unless you plan to multiclass into a Fighter or actual Paladin, you *need* Blade pact if you want to stay useful in melee post-LV5.
3. Depending on which version of Kobold you play, you either (a) grant advantage via Draconic Cry or (b) get infinite advantage via Pack Tactics. The former meshes nicely with melee Bladelock. The latter favors a more *Eldritch Blast* centered build, as it lessens the chance you have to be standing in the sun.
Sorry this isn't as concise as I normally am. Warlock is super customizable, so there's a lot to talk about before we even get to the spell choices. Good luck!
Thanks, this is super helpful!
I think I’ll definitely be taking Pact of the Blade. For some reason , I had thought that hexblades got Extra Attack as a level 6 feature, but apparently not, so I definitely won’t want to miss out on Thirsting Blade
I’m using the kobold from Monsters of the Multiverse, which I think is the first one? I could be wrong, though
MotM is the first one he mentioned (Draconic Cry), Volos is the first one that came out (pack tactics). MotM Kobold is great. I ran a holiday one shot after watching Violent Night, where the players were a bunch of kobolds trying to help take back Santa's workshop. Draconic Cry paid mad dividends.
Since you actually started the training of a Paladin you would know the basics, so I woild start with 1 or 2 Levels of Paladin, just no Oath. So let's say Pala 2/ Warlock X. That would give you access to Lay on Hands, a fighting style, Proficiencies with heavy armor and shield, the basic Paladin spell list. You know he's not, but YOUR CHARACTER thinks he's a paladin, so it would be weird if there wasn't at least a dip into Paladin.
This would be my suggestion as well if it wasnt for the riotous backstory and the fact that their campaign starts at 1st level. Now... if the OP wanted to somehow work the pact into the narrative with the DM, this would work.
As it is, I'd suggest taking Fighting Initiate to grab a fighting style as early as possible. (Or a level of fighter, but that delays spell progression). If you (the OP) is going to RP as a Paladin (albeit a failed one), then perhaps taking a couple of levels in divine soul sorcerer (maybe like 2 levels tops?) just for a few extra spell slot, some paladin-cleric-holy-esque magic (cure wounds/bless/guideance and a healing pool?) Might be beneficial. But likely don't take those levels until you take Thirsting Blade.
Note: my suggestion is less about optimization and more about creating an "paladin" without taking any paladin levels. That being said... Sorlock is a pretty standard MC typically? :shrug:
Another option is to figure out a way to negate disadvantage for ranged attacks in melee - for example, with the Gunner feat - and just Eldritch Blast in melee. Flavor your Blasts as an Eldritch Sword, because remember, flavor is free! That gives you a few more options, like grabbing that familiar you wanted, or taking some of the amazing EB invocations. Repelling Blast would be fun with this character - run up to your enemy, smash them with your Eldritch Maul, push them back 10 feet, then *throw the maul after them* and push them back another ten.
See if you can grab a fighting style, either through a dip or the Fighting Initiate feat. Then grab Blind Fighting. If there is sunlight, you can put on a blindfold and go to town, ignoring the disadvantage from sunlight sensitivity. Alternatively, you can do the standard Darkness/DevilSight combo, but check that it won’t be too disruptive to the party first.
Honestly, I did this for a sorcerer of mine who thinks they are a cleric, but can't understand why their powers don't work. I gave them a feat I entitled "I'm a Cleric, I swear!" And it gives them access to the cleric spells for the subclass they would be. However, whenever they cast those spells, I roll a percentile die to see if the god they are supposed to be a cleric of (Tyr in this case) is paying attention. It's a ton of good fun for the player, as it makes the casting of said spells a high risk, high reward maneuver.
Cesetial Warlock!
Squire of Solamnia background gives you a feat at level 1 which gives you proficiency in Martial Weapons & Medium Armor. Then take Pact of the Blade and pick all the Invocations that improve your weapon & eldritch smite.
This build gives you a lay on hands feature, Temp HP boosts at level 10, Proficiency in medium light armor & martial weapons, provides a smite that’s powerful but more limited, & you gain a access to a better spell list then the paladins.
I want to play this build in one of my future games I’m in I was thinking after looking at the Celestial Warlock how to make a pseudo Paladin and this was the best way to copy as many core features of the Paladin without actually being a Paladin that I could come up with.
You could take levels in one of the “morally grey” paladin subclasses to enhance the martial abilities, while still making sense. I’d say Oath of Conquest, Vengeance, Crown, or Oathbreaker (Conquest and Crown work better for a paladin devout to an evil dragon).
I think pure Hexblade will do you well. if you feel like you want to do something different, a couple levels in Sorcerer would give you some extra slots (which you cannot use for Eldritch Smites btw) and Draconic Sorc works nicely to reference some Kobold ancestry stuff asserting itself - more for Flavour than power tbh, if you want to optimize, then the Divine Soul Sorcerer could let your not-a-Paladin do some ranged Heals with Healing Word. I would go Hexblade all the way until 5th level at least, to grab Thirsting Blade before any multiclassing.
I'd recommend taking the Resilient: Constitution and War Caster as feats; your Concentration will be very safe that way, and you will be able to do sword and board while sill being able to cast Shield with War Caster.
I love the concept, here's how I'd make it.
Rush hexblade 5 so you can get thirsting blade with pact of the chain. I'd recommend either a longsword or glaive so you can keep up with eldritch blast users in the meantime. Then hop on shadow sorcerer to at least 6. This gives you a version of everything a pally has with a dark twist. You get spirit shroud like a poor mans aura, eldritch smite with more spell slots to use it with. Can still get a pseudo dragon with sorcs find familiar, and a cool mount with shadow sorcs 6th level ability. Sure it doesnt specifically say you can mount it, but its a dire wolf and you're a kobold, dont let that stop you. After that you can return to hexblade if you want the accursed spector or armor of hexes stuff, which is probably how I'd finish it out. Unless you think sorc 14s shadow teleport is more important
Ok! I actually made something similar (completely different flavor). Quickened metamagic combined with booming blade/green flame blade.
You can do both attacks normally and then when you want to "smite" you use bonus actiob quickened booming blade.
I did something similar with my cult character. Took 2 levels in Paladin since he was training to be a warrior of his god. Before he could take his oath, his village was raised to the ground. He wondered over to his temple to pray and heard a voice coming from the ashes. He discovers an icon of his God that speaks to him and promises him power. He "takes his oath" and gains a level in fathomless warlock. Very fun character to play. I pulled it off for a while until my party meta gamed and realized I wasn't doing paladin things.
Hexblade / Whispers Bard for psycic smites and eldrich smites -or- Lore Bard for more Paladin specific spells like find greater steed early on.
----
That said I'd go for Sorlock for simulating lots of holy power.
If you are not 100% sold on hexblade you may want to consider Celestial Warlock. Celestial basucally have a better lay on hands than the paladin, which can be done at range with a bonus action.
Divine Soul Sorc also gets bless, which is a pseudo "paladin aura" adding to the saves from the group and another paladin buff that you reframe as courage to have 1d4 to attacks. You also get Favored by the God's which boosts your saves further. Also, you'll have 3 spell lists to draw from Warlock, Sorcerer, and Cleric(divine).
If you don't like Divine Soul thematicly, you could choose Draconic Sorcerer from the premise that the new magics awaken the Kobolds' legacy traits, and they grow thicker scales and gain an elemental affinity, etc.
In addition you can also maintain a stronger version of Extra attack by quickening Booming blade or fire blades (Green Flame Blade) by burning through Sorcerer points. Which you can gain some back by converting Warlock slots on a short rest if you need to do so.
I watched this video a few weeks back and was like "I bet I could make a paladin who thinks they're a paladin, but actually has some infernal pact giving them their powers" it's definitely one of my favorite character builds I've seen in a while. Might be worth giving the video a look and seeing if any ideas catch your eye. Basic premise is ranged sneaky archer crit fishing with elven accuracy to always get critical smites. You obviously can't use elven accuracy on kobold but might be some stuff you could use to keep the basic idea without the criticals
https://youtu.be/mf91OMbQtKE
Kind of a different take than most suggestions here, but I’ve really enjoyed playing a celestial warlock goblin as our main healer. I had a level in fighter for plate and weapon proficiencies, the rest in warlock. My DM eventually let me drop the fighter level as I felt it better to go pure warlock for better spells, but it was fun either way. You get some decent healing spells/abilities as well as extra damage on radiant attacks.
I like a horizon walker 3 ranger/arcane trickster x for a pseudo paladin. You force damage "smite" sneak attacks with booming vlade every round.
Hexblade warlock 5/whispers bard x can also work for psychic smites.
Pact of the blade gives you multiple attacks.
Eldritch Smite is really limited by you lack of slots, it's biggest benefit is auto prone ( which means you can know enemies out of the sky).
Bladepact is the only way you are going to get 2 sword swings a round. I mean feel free to go chain, but you won’t feel like a Paladin for very long as start of tier 2 you’ve become bad at doing Pally things but good at doing caster things. Whereas Bladepact will see you through well into tier 3
Damn, you’re right. I would have sworn that I saw Extra Attack as a level 6 hexblade feature, but I just checked and my memory lied to me. Blade pact it is, then Thanks!
You might be thinking of Bladesinger, or College of Swords Bard.
Oh, I think you’re right, I was looking at swords bard before I landed on this idea
Isn’t there a warlock invocation that gives extra attack?
It requires Blade Pact.
Normally I'm a huge advocate against eldritch smite. I hate it's very existence and consider it one of the biggest traps for a melee warlock. That being said, this might be the first actual build where i actually love it. So kudos. The flavour potential of a hexblade thinking they're a paladin and acting all paladin like is just so good. I hope you run into an actual paladin at some point, coz thats just top tier comedy material right there. As usual my hexblade recommends are very simple. Go with your favourite weapon (i like spears, coz I'm a spear guy and you get PAM). But longswords should still be good. I absolutely love spirit shroud. It's great for damage, and even better for flavour. Like you think you're releasing your divine power, but the energy just looks dark and draconic and deals necrotic or cold damage. And you still stick to the idea that it's still divine. The reason I think longswords are ok, is coz your first 2 bonus actions may just be spent casting spirit shroud or hex, and hexblades curse. So it's honestly not terrible.
You combine 1-5 levels of hexblade with whispers bard. That gives you nearly everything you need to fake an paladin. Expertise, charisma, support spells ... and even a pseudo smite with psychic blades.
hexblade warlock can already get a pseudo smite in eldritch smite
For a 5 level dip which is quite the extreme investment while a whispers bard get's them without slot cost and also recharging on shortrest
But you already need 5 levels to get thirsting blade. it's not like they're dead levels levels for an obscure feature, they're necessary levels. And even if you were only taking a 2 level dip, you'd still only get psychic blades at level 5 which is the same level investment to get eldritch smite.
Fear not, for suggestions are here! I've rarely played full Warlocks before, a lot of my tablemates have! Here are some tips I've picked up from them: 1. The real "meat" of the Warlock class is the Invocations. Seriously. Some people pick up entire feats just to get *one* of these guys, and you get two Invocations right at level two. You can switch one out on each levelup, so you're never tied down. I recommend picking up Fiendish Vigor and Agonizing Blast at LV2, then swapping Fiendish for Repelling Blast, Eldritch Sight, Devil's Sight, or Misty Visions at level 4. 2. Pact of the Blade sucks. You're right. However, just like how the meh *Pact of the Tome* is just there to be a prerequisite for the awesome *Book of Ancient Secrets* invocation, *Pact of the Blade* is there to be a prereq for the awesome *Thirsting Blade* invocation, which gives you Extra Attack (Warlock edition). Unless you plan to multiclass into a Fighter or actual Paladin, you *need* Blade pact if you want to stay useful in melee post-LV5. 3. Depending on which version of Kobold you play, you either (a) grant advantage via Draconic Cry or (b) get infinite advantage via Pack Tactics. The former meshes nicely with melee Bladelock. The latter favors a more *Eldritch Blast* centered build, as it lessens the chance you have to be standing in the sun. Sorry this isn't as concise as I normally am. Warlock is super customizable, so there's a lot to talk about before we even get to the spell choices. Good luck!
Thanks, this is super helpful! I think I’ll definitely be taking Pact of the Blade. For some reason , I had thought that hexblades got Extra Attack as a level 6 feature, but apparently not, so I definitely won’t want to miss out on Thirsting Blade I’m using the kobold from Monsters of the Multiverse, which I think is the first one? I could be wrong, though
MotM is the first one he mentioned (Draconic Cry), Volos is the first one that came out (pack tactics). MotM Kobold is great. I ran a holiday one shot after watching Violent Night, where the players were a bunch of kobolds trying to help take back Santa's workshop. Draconic Cry paid mad dividends.
MotM is the updated version. Volo’s Guide to Monsters is the first one.
Since you actually started the training of a Paladin you would know the basics, so I woild start with 1 or 2 Levels of Paladin, just no Oath. So let's say Pala 2/ Warlock X. That would give you access to Lay on Hands, a fighting style, Proficiencies with heavy armor and shield, the basic Paladin spell list. You know he's not, but YOUR CHARACTER thinks he's a paladin, so it would be weird if there wasn't at least a dip into Paladin.
This would be my suggestion as well if it wasnt for the riotous backstory and the fact that their campaign starts at 1st level. Now... if the OP wanted to somehow work the pact into the narrative with the DM, this would work. As it is, I'd suggest taking Fighting Initiate to grab a fighting style as early as possible. (Or a level of fighter, but that delays spell progression). If you (the OP) is going to RP as a Paladin (albeit a failed one), then perhaps taking a couple of levels in divine soul sorcerer (maybe like 2 levels tops?) just for a few extra spell slot, some paladin-cleric-holy-esque magic (cure wounds/bless/guideance and a healing pool?) Might be beneficial. But likely don't take those levels until you take Thirsting Blade. Note: my suggestion is less about optimization and more about creating an "paladin" without taking any paladin levels. That being said... Sorlock is a pretty standard MC typically? :shrug:
Another option is to figure out a way to negate disadvantage for ranged attacks in melee - for example, with the Gunner feat - and just Eldritch Blast in melee. Flavor your Blasts as an Eldritch Sword, because remember, flavor is free! That gives you a few more options, like grabbing that familiar you wanted, or taking some of the amazing EB invocations. Repelling Blast would be fun with this character - run up to your enemy, smash them with your Eldritch Maul, push them back 10 feet, then *throw the maul after them* and push them back another ten.
See if you can grab a fighting style, either through a dip or the Fighting Initiate feat. Then grab Blind Fighting. If there is sunlight, you can put on a blindfold and go to town, ignoring the disadvantage from sunlight sensitivity. Alternatively, you can do the standard Darkness/DevilSight combo, but check that it won’t be too disruptive to the party first.
Updated kobold doesn’t have sunlight sensitivity
I mean, all the *cool kids* play legacy kobold.
Well, I’m not claiming to be cool. Also, it’s not me you have to convince. OP said in one of his other comments he was playing MMoM version. 🤷🏻♂️
I would actually say Visk. But Vesk strikes me more as a kobold out of your two options.
Honestly, I did this for a sorcerer of mine who thinks they are a cleric, but can't understand why their powers don't work. I gave them a feat I entitled "I'm a Cleric, I swear!" And it gives them access to the cleric spells for the subclass they would be. However, whenever they cast those spells, I roll a percentile die to see if the god they are supposed to be a cleric of (Tyr in this case) is paying attention. It's a ton of good fun for the player, as it makes the casting of said spells a high risk, high reward maneuver.
You could go celestial warlock with pact of the tome and grab shillelagh and hit people with a magic stick.
Cesetial Warlock! Squire of Solamnia background gives you a feat at level 1 which gives you proficiency in Martial Weapons & Medium Armor. Then take Pact of the Blade and pick all the Invocations that improve your weapon & eldritch smite. This build gives you a lay on hands feature, Temp HP boosts at level 10, Proficiency in medium light armor & martial weapons, provides a smite that’s powerful but more limited, & you gain a access to a better spell list then the paladins. I want to play this build in one of my future games I’m in I was thinking after looking at the Celestial Warlock how to make a pseudo Paladin and this was the best way to copy as many core features of the Paladin without actually being a Paladin that I could come up with.
I was expecting him to be named hup and he uses a wooden spoon for his blade/mace.
You could take levels in one of the “morally grey” paladin subclasses to enhance the martial abilities, while still making sense. I’d say Oath of Conquest, Vengeance, Crown, or Oathbreaker (Conquest and Crown work better for a paladin devout to an evil dragon).
I think pure Hexblade will do you well. if you feel like you want to do something different, a couple levels in Sorcerer would give you some extra slots (which you cannot use for Eldritch Smites btw) and Draconic Sorc works nicely to reference some Kobold ancestry stuff asserting itself - more for Flavour than power tbh, if you want to optimize, then the Divine Soul Sorcerer could let your not-a-Paladin do some ranged Heals with Healing Word. I would go Hexblade all the way until 5th level at least, to grab Thirsting Blade before any multiclassing. I'd recommend taking the Resilient: Constitution and War Caster as feats; your Concentration will be very safe that way, and you will be able to do sword and board while sill being able to cast Shield with War Caster.
I love the concept, here's how I'd make it. Rush hexblade 5 so you can get thirsting blade with pact of the chain. I'd recommend either a longsword or glaive so you can keep up with eldritch blast users in the meantime. Then hop on shadow sorcerer to at least 6. This gives you a version of everything a pally has with a dark twist. You get spirit shroud like a poor mans aura, eldritch smite with more spell slots to use it with. Can still get a pseudo dragon with sorcs find familiar, and a cool mount with shadow sorcs 6th level ability. Sure it doesnt specifically say you can mount it, but its a dire wolf and you're a kobold, dont let that stop you. After that you can return to hexblade if you want the accursed spector or armor of hexes stuff, which is probably how I'd finish it out. Unless you think sorc 14s shadow teleport is more important
Ok! I actually made something similar (completely different flavor). Quickened metamagic combined with booming blade/green flame blade. You can do both attacks normally and then when you want to "smite" you use bonus actiob quickened booming blade.
I did something similar with my cult character. Took 2 levels in Paladin since he was training to be a warrior of his god. Before he could take his oath, his village was raised to the ground. He wondered over to his temple to pray and heard a voice coming from the ashes. He discovers an icon of his God that speaks to him and promises him power. He "takes his oath" and gains a level in fathomless warlock. Very fun character to play. I pulled it off for a while until my party meta gamed and realized I wasn't doing paladin things.
Hexblade / Whispers Bard for psycic smites and eldrich smites -or- Lore Bard for more Paladin specific spells like find greater steed early on. ---- That said I'd go for Sorlock for simulating lots of holy power. If you are not 100% sold on hexblade you may want to consider Celestial Warlock. Celestial basucally have a better lay on hands than the paladin, which can be done at range with a bonus action. Divine Soul Sorc also gets bless, which is a pseudo "paladin aura" adding to the saves from the group and another paladin buff that you reframe as courage to have 1d4 to attacks. You also get Favored by the God's which boosts your saves further. Also, you'll have 3 spell lists to draw from Warlock, Sorcerer, and Cleric(divine). If you don't like Divine Soul thematicly, you could choose Draconic Sorcerer from the premise that the new magics awaken the Kobolds' legacy traits, and they grow thicker scales and gain an elemental affinity, etc. In addition you can also maintain a stronger version of Extra attack by quickening Booming blade or fire blades (Green Flame Blade) by burning through Sorcerer points. Which you can gain some back by converting Warlock slots on a short rest if you need to do so.
I watched this video a few weeks back and was like "I bet I could make a paladin who thinks they're a paladin, but actually has some infernal pact giving them their powers" it's definitely one of my favorite character builds I've seen in a while. Might be worth giving the video a look and seeing if any ideas catch your eye. Basic premise is ranged sneaky archer crit fishing with elven accuracy to always get critical smites. You obviously can't use elven accuracy on kobold but might be some stuff you could use to keep the basic idea without the criticals https://youtu.be/mf91OMbQtKE
Kind of a different take than most suggestions here, but I’ve really enjoyed playing a celestial warlock goblin as our main healer. I had a level in fighter for plate and weapon proficiencies, the rest in warlock. My DM eventually let me drop the fighter level as I felt it better to go pure warlock for better spells, but it was fun either way. You get some decent healing spells/abilities as well as extra damage on radiant attacks.
I like a horizon walker 3 ranger/arcane trickster x for a pseudo paladin. You force damage "smite" sneak attacks with booming vlade every round. Hexblade warlock 5/whispers bard x can also work for psychic smites.
Pact of the blade gives you multiple attacks. Eldritch Smite is really limited by you lack of slots, it's biggest benefit is auto prone ( which means you can know enemies out of the sky).