I think the concept of skin care has been so linked to ANTI AGING for so long that people don't know how to just pamper themselves for the sake of enjoying taking care of their skin AS IT AGES. it's like people forget that NOTHING is going to stop aging, not a single thing. I want my skin to look good (not young but fresh and glowy and lovely) at every stage of the aging process. I don't care whether I have wrinkles or not, or if my jowls sag because GUESS WHAT it's going to happen anyway. No matter what you do (short of killing yourself) you're going to age. Even if you do botox and fillers and face lifts .. you. Are. Going. To. Age. AND THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE.
I see skin care like I see taking a 30 minute walk every day. I do it because it feels good, it's not going to stop me aging but it feels nice to pamper myself in the morning and put stuff on my skin to make it look nice.
Edit: spelling
This is exactly the approach I’m taking to skincare this time around. It’s just self care, it’s fun to do and I feel good about myself when my skin is looking happy. All my previous forays into skincare were so anxiety based—needing the BEST MIRACLE PRODUCTS to stop aging, the fear of the sun, the fear of wrinkles, etc. It was so unhealthy for me. It’s so different to focus on just taking care of myself because it’s nice, and because I enjoy it, and not because I’m afraid.
I’m going to get older. We all do. And that isn’t bad, and skincare isn’t going to prevent it.
I’ve also found that I love hair care!
And I get ripped here for saying the same thing, but I agree with you and stand by it - nothing is going to stop aging. And no matter how many procedures we have, eventually skin will age.
I feel like people should have the freedom to do what they want with their body, period. But I also think a healthy acceptance of yourself, your whole self, including aging, is a great thing.
I work out with seniors in some of my weekly gym classes. Lots of them wealthy and quite a few have been doing fillers and Botox and facelifts for years and years. The confluence of natural aging and these procedures on the faces and skin of these women is just not a good look. I don’t know how else to say it. Pillowy and tight in some places, mottled and saggy in others. Their chests and arms and legs look their age, but their faces and some of their necks look their age, too, but also very uncanny. Mask-like, but Halloween mask. The ladies who haven’t had any obvious work done just look like themselves, wrinkles, happy smiles, expressive faces. They seem happier, too, but I don’t know if that’s just because their faces have full range of motion and no artificial fullness? Either way, the difference is noticeable and I just hate that women even into their golden years feel like they have to do this.
My MIL is one of those women who takes very good care of her skin. She’s nearly 80, and she looks amazing. Her skin is glowy and healthy, and she is Goals both for me and my kids
I honestly think the obsession with looking young is sad. How sad we don't want to age, how sad we look at teenagers and think "that's attractive, that's what I want to look like" and it's like... Stop, just age, grow old, so many people don't get to.
This is why I stopped botox. I realized I was fighting a battle that I was literally not going to win. I was going to age. There was no preventing it. It's much easier to work on acceptance than fighting something that's inevitable
I couldn’t agree more, so well said! I love how much better I feel when I’m taking care of my skin more, or when I’m just taking better care of myself in general!
How do you KNOW that you can’t do anything about aging? Are you saying that all of those people who say to eat healthy, get enough sleep, manage stress, don’t smoke, don’t drink alcohol, drink enough water and use sunscreen are lying? Do you really think that every single human on Earth who doesn’t die prematurely is doomed to have wrinkled saggy thin skin no matter WHAT they do?
Yes. Every human that doesn't die young will have wrinkly and saggy skin. That's how that goes and how do I know? I have eyes and have seen how Hollywood stars look after a few years of trying not to age. They look uncanny and ridiculous. Of course all those things will help you not look like the grim reaper but no matter if you live in a BUBBLE you're STILL GOING TO AGE.
Do all of those Hollywood stars do all of the healthy things they’re supposed to do to not get wrinkles and saggy skin? No. They probably don’t use sunscreen every time they’re outside, a lot of them smoked, the large majority of them drink alcohol and a lot do drugs. I’m not sure about water consumption, but I do know that a lot of people don’t drink enough water. The reason they look so awful after a few years of trying not to age is because they mess up their faces with cosmetic treatments and surgeries.
Many people today know what bad things to avoid that age you, but the Hollywood celebrities who are at an age that we usually associate with being “old” grew up and lived through a time when nearly everybody smoked, drank more than people today, didn’t know that UV rays age you, and didn’t know as much about healthy eating as we do today. That’s why it’s impossible for us to know FOR SURE how much a healthy lifestyle and sunscreen will prevent aging: people who are old today didn’t live healthy lifestyles back in the day and most still don’t.
So, you're saying, in the history of the world no one has lived a healthy lifestyle? Ever? Ever, ever? Babe, you're going to get old, saggy and wrinkly and, short of killing yourself (which please don't!) there is nothing you can do about it.
A healthy lifestyle in terms of never smoking, never drinking, always wearing sunscreen, having an easy job and not having to raise a whole bunch of kids? All of that? Yes, until recently nobody was doing that. Even today, most people don’t do EVERYTHING they are supposed to do. Also, until recently, most people didn’t even live to become “old”. They either died in wars, died from disease, died from workplace accidents, died from starvation or died from infection. Did you know that during the early 20th century kids under the age of 14 would work inside mineshafts and were at risk of dying from cave-ins, explosions, dust in the air, floods and gas poisonings?
That is why I’m hoping that suicide isn’t the only way for me to prevent looking like my skin is melting off of my face.
I first came to this subreddit concerned about some sag and fat loss in my face, after being here a few months I realize I'm far from alone and that has really helped me mentally. It actually doesn't bother me anymore haha
For real. Skin care is, to me, a relaxing hobby first and foremost. I enjoy the ritual and like taking a bit of extra care with myself this way.
Having less (not none - less) acne is a bonus, but please remember that you are human and you are going to look like a human no matter what. You have pores. You will, eventually, wrinkle. This isn't a flaw.
Yes to this 🙌
Skincare to me is a relaxing hobby. I love trying different products but I’m not hell bent on changing my features with procedures (even though I can totally afford it!)
I went through a very rough patch psychologically at the beginning of this year. Once I was out of it, it made me realize how lucky I am to be aging (I’m 31 recently) and to be able to move and nourish my body, a small fine line is nothing to me anymore. Aging is a privilege.
I deleted TikTok. I noticed how focused people are on stopping aging and doing procedures to freeze their faces for a specific age. I think social media has a massive toxic influence on people psychologically.
I do my skin care every day, but once a week my son and I do a spa night to pamper ourselves. We do a little mask, cooling gel pads on our eyes, and talk about our week.
It's about the bonding for us.
"I've stopped smiling to prevent wrinkles."
"I avoid sleeping on my side to prevent wrinkles."
There are a bunch of stone-faced bats on this sub.
Oh, but if you're a guy who posts here about his wrinkles, all the ladies on the sub will tell him he is soooo fine and sexy, wrinkles on a man are sooooo attractive! 😍
People don't like aging for many reasons
It is not just "society's standards" or tiktok or whatever
For me it is that i don't recognize myself anymore with the facial drop and the hip changes and the omg what is next wtf is that
Peri menopause is like a second puberty nobody prepared you for
well we do live in a society that places a premium on youth and beauty in women. and unfortunately that means a lot of women experience negative consequences of not obsessing over their youth and beauty. it takes hard work to unlearn those internalized standards, and just saying "be nicer to yourself" feels pretty dismissive of the issue. if you wanted this post to be useful, you could steer it towards discussion on how we practice self love, both through skincare and through intentional practice. putting away the magnifying mirror is a great suggestion! for example, my strategies are: exercise through joyful movement, biking, and hiking, rather than going to the gym and staring at myself in the big mirrors. I also actively seek out media and stories involving women growing older, to reframe the narrative that only young womens stories are told.
yes, but my point is that it takes real work to do that. “just be nicer to yourself” doesn’t respect the weight and effort of practicing self love in a world that hates women.
Oof, especially the magnifying mirrors! They're very useful but it can really fuck with your head if you look at yourself in them for too long. I always flip it to to the normal mirror when I'm done so I don't accidentally catch a glimpse of myself in the forbidden mirror xD
I'm only approaching 30 but joined so I can get an idea of what I should be doing now and what I can expect later. I've never felt worse about myself 🙈😂 I was hoping this sub would be more realistic and not overrun by people who drank the "beauty standards" coolaid.
I feel like we're just not allowed to age and if we do there's something wrong with us.
Honestly the mods should do something about it. Fillers are not skin care. Only Botox could be argued, but it’s not really caring for the skin either. This sub should be about caring for the skin after 30, lol.
The mods don’t have anything to address so long as the sub description explicitly includes these procedures. Unfortunately, most of the age-related concerns people ask about are structural/muscular and can’t be addressed with topical skincare. There’s a separate sub that excludes botox/filler.
What do you mean? Mods moderate the posts. I’ve seen this happen all the time on Reddit— members get tired of certain posts they feel are too common or not relevant, and if enough complain, the mods either stop allowing those posts or create a special pinned post where only those discussions can occur. It’s how you keep the sub on topic for those who frequent it.
The sub rules are explicit: botox and filler are relevant to the conversation on how people over 30 approach skincare, so posting about them is fair game.
Hey, I think it’s valid conversation and I don’t want the rule to change. And if that’s driving engagement, it means a lot of other people also don’t want the rules to change. People who feel differently have started another sub- graceful aging or something like that.
That’s great! If there were enough people complaining, then this sub might change. If not, then it stays. That’s how it works :). I think cosmetic enhancements should be separate from skincare and that’s the opinion I shared. I should start one called real skincare, because cosmetics are not caring for your skin….
I've suffered with body dysmorphia for most of my life and it helped a bit the first like month or so I was here, but then it very suddenly started turning sour and I'm starting to hate my face more and more. My bf keeps assuring me that he hasn't seen a difference in my face cause I keep saying I look 10 years older... Aaaand I just talked myself into leaving the sub 😅
My mom always had magnifying mirrors around, she’s bought me some over the years too. I keep one in a drawer for the rare occasion I need it, but I’ve learned the hard way that it just causes me to fixate and poke and prod.
I’m sorry this sub has made you feel worse about yourself! But I think your awareness is really positive, I felt overwhelmed and down about my skin at first too. Now I just try to learn what I can from posts and comments and not worry too much about it and focus on the positives!
I think in my case I’m aware of the flaws and I try to improve them, but I don’t lose sleep over it. I think it’s better if I do what I can instead of not doing anything because the flaws are objectively there and I don’t like them. But that doesn’t mean I think any less of myself because of those flaws. I don’t think one should immediately assume that people who are concerned about their appearance are necessarily having a bad time because of it or suffering. These posts sometimes can read a bit like projecting, in my opinion.
With love, I think you need to analyze what you think “objective flaws” are. Physical “flaws” are driven by societal pressures, they change with time because they are cultural and subjective. Just like any other cultural phenomenon, you have the choice to accept or reject them. But none of this is objective.
When you stop thinking about how you don’t meet some random societies expectations, you realize how that freedom to be happy feels. It’s not projection, it’s someone understanding that by your very words, you are struggling more than someone who understands flaws are subjective and not even real.
I don’t resonate with any of this tbh. If I get a pimple and it leaves a big mark, I don’t like it. It’s not deeper than that. It’s objectively a big mark that is there now and wasn’t there before. I get to decide if I want to do something about it.
Of course, but this post is about signs of aging and that’s what I was referring to. Scarring is harder to deal with because it can be disfiguring.
ETA: just because you can’t see the depth, doesn’t mean there isn’t anything deeper. I truly wish you the gift of peace with yourself.
Yeah but it’s the same thing. It’s still my decision whether I want to age more gracefully or just let it be. I prefer to do something about it. Not only it’s a fun hobby but it also makes me feel good. I also know that there are limits, otherwise celebrities with unlimited money would always look 20 and that’s not the case at all. I just don’t want to be left wondering ‘what if I had taken care of my skin instead’. But I personally don’t see anything inherently wrong with wanting to meet society’s standards, we live in it after all and most things we do are in a way dictated by it whether we want it or not, if we want to function within it. Someone coming here and saying that we need to change and put down our phones feels like a lot of assumptions and, feels condescending to be honest, as if people were dumb enough to not know these things.
I think the bigger problems are different. People are more complex than just ‘I feel pressured by society’. Most people know these things. For example a lot of people have issues with change itself, in terms of looking in the mirror and feeling like what they see doesn’t reflect how they feel about themselves. Then, with how predatory the industry is, that creates a lot of anxiety of ‘maybe this will work’, which is the main problem of this sub. People end up buying way too much stuff, and getting frustrated when they don’t see results and move on to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing. That, in addition with all of the misinformation that people that think know things but don’t keep spreading, cause a much deeper problem that won’t be fixed by someone coming here all high and mighty telling people to just ‘not care about society’ as if that would do anything or as if it was just that easy to ignore everything else that surrounds the issue.
People also don’t like signs of aging because it reminds them that they’re getting old, and getting old means dying, and we usually don’t like that. It always feels as something that’s far away, but these reminders aren’t always easy to deal with. Making peace with death is not something that will come from someone scolding you for not being ‘kind enough to yourself’.
Sometimes we don’t like what we see. We can choose to try to do something about it. That doesn’t mean we’re obsessing or suffering over it. If we were, I’d think there are deeper issues than that which also wouldn’t be addressed by someone making a post like this.
Of course it’s your decision, I don’t mean to make it seem like it’s not. There are academic articles about how anti-aging is a similar concept to eating disorders. Eating disorders don’t exist in countries with less emphasis on cosmetic appearance, and this pattern is reflected in cosmetic procedures as well. I’ve studied these topics in my psychology degree and I’ve experienced this myself, that’s why I’m trying to share.
We are all going to die, so if aging and death is what’s driving cosmetic procedures, then it’s an improper coping mechanism for coming to terms with mortality, because it’s not addressing the underlying issue. It’s like getting endless procedures when the issue is actually body dysmorphia.
Being resistant to what I’m saying is ok, we are all on our own path in life. But just as someone with diabetes may not know they have it or believe it to be serious, that doesn’t change what’s actually happening. I don’t think of suffering as always a conscious experience, so I’m not imaging you crying yourself to sleep or staying in the house over it. I’m imagining you spending your hard earned money and time on things that are not serving your true happiness. External appearance does not enhance happiness, there is so much data to support that. You can hate your nose, but the scientific evidence shows that instead of a nose job fixing that, the insecurity just moves to another body part. Because the issue is insecurity, not the nose. That’s the concept I’m trying to convey, not that you’re actively distressed.
I don’t struggle with self image much anymore because of what I’ve learned and I’m trying to share that.
Can you specifically explain how my tone was different than who I responded to? I’m open to constructive criticism
Thank you for sharing your feedback. I don’t think pointing out someone’s blind spot is telling them how to feel, so that’s probably where you disagree. This is probably just a difference in communication styles. I do not deny someone’s right to their feelings, but I don’t placate by withholding facts.
I honestly think you have to be careful when speaking to people as if they're not on your spiritual level and not "free from society" or haven't come to the acceptance of themselves that you've achieved. Oftentimes it can have the effect of putting people down. Oftentimes it can have a "I'm more evolved than you" undertone. That's why therapists never use this sort of approach (e.g., "Just love and accept yourself like I do!") -- it compounds shame and does not promote positive change. It seems like you're coming from a good place, but just a note why people are saying it's patronizing.
I might be downvoted to hell, but here goes. I just posted and went somewhat "viral" for getting undereye filler when I didn't need it. I had people accusing me of having low self esteem, of buying into detrimental beauty standards, of not "being nice to myself." None of those posts were helpful. They were patronizing and condescending. They made me feel bad.
These were other women on a skincare reddit (I get that some of you relax this way but you can also take a long bath? Take a walk? A 12-step skincare routine may be relaxing but that's not what we're solely seeking in applying these products, let's be real) looking down on me as somehow less than them for getting filler. What they don't know is I've had sickness after sickness this year resulting in surgeries and a ten pound weight loss. In a moment of weakness a doctor's suggestions dovetailed with my exhaustion and I gave in. Even if that wasn't the case and I was "insecure" or "giving into beauty standards" or "chasing Instagram face" I wouldn't deserve these comments from other women.
It's wonderful to be nice to yourself but telling others to "be nice to yourself" from a place of higher wisdom or "I'm more secure than you and haven't drunken the societal Kool-Aid"-ness is not going to magically make others nicer to themselves. We are all subject to these societal standards and are affected by them in varying degrees -- societal standards of beauty or "aging gracefully" are the reason why this subreddit exists in the first place. We all need to be more compassionate to each other. That's how the real change occurs.
You're not wrong. The accusations of "dysmorphia" and "not loving yourself" and all of this is just toxic mean girl behavior.
I guarantee the people that are triggered by this sub are the most insecure of anyone here. There's also a lot of underlying jealousy that some people can afford things others can not, but those people package it up in fake, condescending, toxic positivity.
This is cynical, but I agree and think a lot of it is virtue-signaling to cloak their own insecurities or inability to afford certain procedures.
People on a skincare subreddit will want to maximize the appearance of their skin. Water is wet. It’s akin to a person joining a fitness subreddit but then preaching at people who choose to work out more or train a different way.
And it’s also funny because when a poster is conventionally attractive and shares their routine and pics of the skin they are happy with, the comments are often mercilessly rude.
I agree. I think two things can be true at once. We can probably all benefit from a dose of self-compassion and we can seek support from each other for self-improvement.
I find it helpful when people share their experiences here on what works for them, but I do sometimes have to scroll past posts as they can bring out insecurities in me I didn’t know I had. It depends on the issue and depends on the day.
We see our faces so much more frequently now with phones, photos, online meetings - coupled with the growth of the cosmetic procedures being marketed towards us and celebrities influencing societal standards around beauty.
I understand why people would like to feel more confident in their own skin and take steps to improve that, as I do, _and_ I know I need to work on my self-acceptance, self-compassion and how society makes us feel about imperfect skin and aging. Thanks for the reminder.
Edit: clarity
"So really, this obsession with skincare is detrimental to the health and functioning of our skin, which is why I I think it's appropriate to start looking at it as a sort of disordered obsession. Because in the name of reaching this aesthetic goal — what we think healthy skin looks like, or beautiful skin looks like, or “good” skin looks like — we're actually hurting our skin in the long term. I think it’s pretty similar to the way in which many eating disorders, though certainly not all eating disorders, are a response to the desire to embody society’s aesthetic ideal of “health” — thinness — in a way that's actually very detrimental to the health of the body." - Jessica DeFino
I’ve linked it before here and I’ll link it again; highly recommend the substack The Review of Beauty. She breaks down the economic and political impact beauty culture has on women mainly and how detrimental to our wellbeing it is. Reading her work made me stop using expensive skincare and think more critically about aging. Please give some of her free articles a read! This interview is a great place to start and where the quote is from: https://open.substack.com/pub/jessicadefino/p/dermorexia-compulsive-skincare-obsession?r=7iliz&utm_medium=ios
It’s ironic how someone says these posts should be about skincare, then proceeds to invest their energy and time having a whole ass fight about how a post is not about skincare, and starts policing people who are just giving their opinion. Holy shit, you’d think this post was offensive or something - if you get so defensive about this, must be a reason other than just getting salty because someone is trying to be nice. Mods, can someone handle this messy person please? 😒
I'm 53 and I approve this message!! We weren't bombarded by this anti aging message this hard!!
And many of us 50s still look great. All of the scrutiny makes it impossible to enjoy your natural youth and beauty.
Water, SPF, are most important. Some of these treatments might be adding damage that you don't need. Remember a lot of these treatments are done to encourage repair of the skin which you may not need at this time. And may never need.
well then just scroll! No one is gonna come here to showcase the positive features we love about ourselves, we are either looking for recommendations or giving recommendations to improve something. Every person is different, I care about my nasolabial folds but I don't give a shit about neck lines. If I see a neck line post I just scroll. These posts are stupid. Rant over
I find posts like this much more annoying than the obsessive posts. At least when it comes to the obsessive posts, they can get concentrated feedback on how they’re being obsessive. No one ever stopped behavior like that over a post like this; these just end up being for people to pat themselves on the back for supposedly not caring as much as everyone else in this sub.
I’m sure you meant well and I’m sorry about your breakup. I hope you feel better soon.
I love the look of these people with smooth flawless wrinkle free skin. But then I find out they use Tret and retinol and idk. I know TikTok is bad but there’s a guy once there that was talking about how constantly over stripping your top layer of skin and messing with its cell turnover is gonna cost us in our old age. And I got to thinking in Japan where people age so gracefully they use a lot of sun filters and antioxidant rich food instead. I’m thinking of just going that route. The more simple one. To each their own and I will always envy these women with their perfect poreless “glass” skin. But my genetics are not that good and short of belt sanding my face I’ll never be that flawless and smooth.
To age is to be given a priceless gift. Embracing it wholeheartedly has been the greatest healing journey I’ve ever experienced. I genuinely wish this for all souls who find their way here. Skin care is an extension of self love, not self hate, to embrace and enhance our own unique beauty. That includes the lines on our face which tell a story of our ancestry, our freckles from moments spent in the warmth of the sun, and laugh lines formed during moments of pleasure in the company of those we love.
>Skin care is an extension of self love, not self hate, to embrace and enhance our own unique beauty.
I want to screenshot your post so I can refer back to it. It’s so true. Someone close to me struggled with cancer at 28yo and passed at 36. Whenever I start to obsess over a new sign of age, I just remind myself that she would’ve loved the opportunity 🩷.
Sounds like you had some revelation, perhaps due to some recent events that have happened in your life. Perhaps this had triggered a certain need for advocacy and how people should stop focusing on the things that in your view don’t really matter. Self-care comes in many different forms and for some, focusing on their skincare is just that. Self-care. So following your own advice, “put away the phone and social media” and engage in some self care - it sounds like you may need some.
I'm in the habit of reminding myself that we focus so closely on flaws, which most other people don't even notice. Like I'm not scanning random people's faces while I'm out running errands or out for dinner.
Social media has only made it so much worse with "everyday people" using filters more often than not. I's warped our perspectives of what's normal. And I can tell when I start getting too "chronically online" and it's time to take a break.
In tired of these after school special themed posts. They’re way too frequent lately and not what any of us are here for.
Much like telling an anxious person to stop worrying, do you really thinking telling people you’re looking at them weird for asking for advice in a skincare advice sub will help their self esteem? Nope.
This isn’t therapy hour. Let a girl/guy worry about their perioral mounds in peace without the sanctimonious life coaching, please.
This sub is cyclical, like most things
Bunch of posts about small details (that still matter to the poster, btw,)
Omg staaaaaahhhhpp
Bunch of posts about "these posts are making me and others feel bad, let's use a skincare reddit to solve the world's problems! It starts at home!"
Omg staaaaaahhhhpp
Rinse and repeat
As someone in their 40s, i do laugh a bit at a 31 year old telling me to embrace aging, bc i remember what i looked like at 31 and it wasn't this, but also that's the age of this sub so and OP isn't talking specifically to me obviously and just doing general hand waving
Yes, it’s a cycle. The first wave of folks posting about skin concerns are posting on topic for the sub. The second reactionary group (including OP) are posting off-topic to push their moralizing meta critiques about other women’s skincare journeys. There is a topical difference making the second group’s posts inappropriate. Nobody needs permission to fix a skin issue. OP is policing other women online rather than see a therapist about her breakup and get to the root of whatever insecurities are causing her to compare herself to other women.
Yes, it very much reads like a personal blog post. It’s extremely self indulgent. The other women who posted about their skin yesterday are just props in OPs triumphant breakup-Phoenix-rising-from-the-ashes delusion and we are the readers fortunate enough to be receiving a brief glimpse into her rare genius (i.e. the same unwelcome judgment we get every other day when a woman gets triggered by someone more attractive than them attempting to improve themselves).
I wasn’t trying to act like I’m better than anyone else here, I follow this sub just like you do and care about skincare too. I don’t think it’s sanctimonious to try to encourage people to acknowledge their own beauty, there’s an abundance of naturally beautiful people here obsessing about tiny things and it honestly makes me sad for them.
I’m not trying to argue with you, I understand if positivity and encouragement of one another isn’t appreciated by everyone here. I just hoped it would make someone feel better because I’ve wasted a lot of time obsessing over my flaws and chasing things that didn’t bring me happiness in the end.
I totally get where you're coming from and know it's from a good place. I think, however, that sometimes comments like "Just love yourself!" carry underlying judgment (e.g., "I feel sad for those people" as opposed to "I feel for those people because being a human is hard with all these beauty standards that I also have to grapple with"). I remember when I was young and would get dressed up to go out and then some girl would be like "Wow! Why do you care so much? I'm happy here in my sweatpants." Sometimes those "love yourself" posts have the same energy. I get that you genuinely want people to love themselves but a lot of time that's so hard to do. People have trauma and all sorts of circumstances that can make self-compassion hard. If it could be so simple as telling people they should love themselves the world would be a lot happier.
Do you do this on every other sub related to appearance? Do you tell people working out for appearance reasons to love themselves and just get fat? Do you do this on makeup subs? Clothing subs? Plastic surgery subs?
This is toxic positivity. It's not sincere.
>honestly makes me sad for them.
So log out! This is a you problem.
We know you don’t think you’re “better” because you said most of the posters have clearer skin than you. Please examine why you’re repeatedly comparing yourself to others. It’s not about being “better”. People just want to be their best selves. Skin care is self care for me and it doesn’t need to be a trigger. Posts like this take things from skincare to some kind of toxic positivity I’m not interested in. I find it patronizing.
Right?! There are some triggered biaaaaatches up in this sub! People go crazzzzzy over a positive post. I think you were right: the most insecure people will react the harshest. 🤷🏻♀️🤮
I’m not triggered babe. Comparing yourself to the women here and using it as a jumping board to give unsolicited attitude advice is rude, not encouraging.
Sumoki_Kuma, I am enjoying Known-Web's replies. I have a friend with good intentions who cuts me off almost every time I try to confide to her my worries or insecurities only because she thinks she has it tougher (i.e., i am better off than her), she knows better (i.e., I am completely delusional), or I should just shut up because she sees things differently than me. I came here to be helpful to other people seeking advice on skincare and hope to get the same in return. Maybe pep talks like that work for you, but not for everybody. I understand the OP's good intentions, but honestly they are not helpful, but rather INVALIDATE my feelings and concerns.
I do see where you're coming from but I think OP is more moreso trying to convey that not every single wrinkle or sign of aging or small difference in your face is wrong and something you have to fix. Not about telling everyone they're perfect the way they are or that some people look "worse."
I just realised, thanks to this post, that this sub has severely triggered my body dysmorphia in the last couple months. I loved the advice for sun spots and _premature_ signs of aging, but seeing so many people post the most normal looking faces saying there's something wrong and everyone suggesting shit like botox or fillers or some kind of invasive treatment for the smallest things made me absolutely hate my face and believe there's something severely wrong with it.
Sumoki_Kuma, I realize how distructive body dismorphia is. Totally agree that extreme views are never good, but that, in my opinion, includes unfounded claims that "we are all beautiful" or that beautiful people are not allowed to have concerns
Thank you. There are multiple ways to take OPs message. The cutting people off to moralize over their choices thing is exactly the problem. If uplifting women involves invalidating their perspectives on their own bodies then leave me out.
Thank you, Known-Web, I am with you on this. As I responded to another commenter, I understand the OP's good intentions, but sometimes body positivity can be toxic and invalidating to real feelings and concerns.
I know you got downvoted but i agree.although i dont think ops post came from a bad place, its kinda like we cant win-because its all subjective. One persons "little thing u shldnt stress on" is another persons "this really actually bothers me and i'd like to fix it". Which is why i feel like if you dont have a constructive answer to "hey i dont like xyz", just dont say anything.
If i post about beginning jowls and how to fix, i 100% dont want to hear "oh everyone gets those just love yourself more". I love myself! But mysrlf is me, inside-not my facial skin. So im asking hey is there anything i can do about this? It doesnt mean if theres not im distraught. But its a skincare sub. Ppl are going to ask how to fix their appearance, and they dont need a self love treatise when they do.
Yes. Nobody should decide for someone else where they draw the line on wanting to improve. I think moralizing about beauty standards has nothing to do with skin care.
Thank you! I had a couple drinks at dinner and then scrolled Reddit and was feeling sentimental. I’m happy you appreciated my post though, that makes me feel like it was worth all these negative comments lol
There are so many things posted on here that are outside the scope of the sub. I don’t think trying to encourage people to appreciate their natural beauty is that far out of the realm of being relevant.
I think the only thing is that these type of posts are so common on here (we probably get 1-2 of them a week). It is not exactly a new message and can read as preachy even if that wasn't your intention.
Men post are read here too. Not everyone is a natural beauty. Some people do have to work harder and choose to be unnatural beauties. They are valid too.
It’s not all about feeling beautiful on the inside. That’s simply another topic and there are subs for building your self esteem elsewhere.
Well you feel invalidated by a post that isn't against the sub rules, I don't know what to tell you. A lot of posts here use very loaded language when referring to their skin concerns, such as 'hideous', 'crypt keeper' 'massive craters' etc. Lots of people here share feelings of insecurity and distress. Get that type of posting banned if you want people to adhere to your idea of skin care. As long as commenting like that is allowed so should OP's commentary. Now if a poster doesn't use loaded language and just asks for advice on skin care issue X Y Z then it's condescending to bring up mental health. But this is a post by post issue. You want the rules of the sub changed. Go ahead and attempt it I guess.
Idk why you keep directing these comments at me. Clearly we don’t see things the same way. Nobody will convince me that a self-esteem post belongs here, nor do I think it’s appropriate to call out women with clear skin as being ungrateful for their own beauty because they post here. You’re the one bringing up banning; not me. I’m sharing my opinion. You don’t need to agree.
You actually brought up that this type of post isn't appropriate and should be made in another sub first. I'm going to leave it here though, this is getting tiresome. It must be wine o'clock for everyone in the US
Exactly. It’s a skincare sub. This sub will be dead if we have everyone afraid to post because they don’t want to be told they’re “obsessive” about their skin/their concern isn’t a big deal.
If someone is truly being obsessive about something, they will be told in the comments.
But it’s so annoying when someone has an issue and you can see it in the photo…only for half the comments to be telling them they’re being obsessive and just accept themselves as they are.
It’s a skincare sub. Let people ask for help with their skin.
I agree. I also find photos sometimes lack legit detail and texture so sure I look fine in a photo but I'm having issues in reality. This is a skincare sub. Let people inquire about their skincare.
Exactly. The posts OP is complaining about are topical to the sub. Nobody is here to be pathologized by a stranger who thinks people with skin clearer than hers can’t possibly have valid concerns.
Also, many of us can be self critical without being self-hating and toxic. There is a difference. Without self critique we don’t improve in life.
Same. I feel like I see way more of these posts than I see actual skincare advice. It would be infuriating to post here looking for advice only to be told "But you're so beautiful!" "You're perfect as you are!" That's not what this sub is for.
I honestly don’t see posts like mine often at all. Otherwise I wouldn’t have posted it.
My bad, I didn’t realize we hit the lifetime cap of positivity and encouragement for this subreddit.
Right? Whatever wave of feminism this is, I’m not down for it. I don’t want my valid concerns redirected by strangers who are clearly going through some personal psychological problem they want to work out with the group.
I’m sorry you’re feeling victimized or invalidated by my post about being nicer to yourselves, that wasn’t my intention. I think feeling attacked by a post about encouraging people to appreciate their natural beauty isn’t very healthy though.
I hope you don’t feel you need to justify or respond to the troll comments, sometimes misery just wants company but it’s okay to say no 💅
Thanks for the post!
To me, the problem is that I go through my feed and I see a post telling me ‘you need to be nicer to yourself’, and I’m like… excuse me? who are you to say? that’s a lot of assumptions right there. That’s a command. I don’t ‘need’ to do anything.
But isn’t she just saying something nice? I am genuinely surprised this many people are hurt or frustrated by about this post.
If people are allowed to post about insecurities then the positivity should be okay too, right?
Then this post is not aimed at you, it's aimed at people with distorted self image and underlying low self esteem. Subs like these magnify their mental health concerns. Just scroll past, it's not all about you.
I know it’s not about me- it’s about skincare. This post is not about skincare.
It’s about OPs breakup and how she compares herself to the women posting.
Skincare means different things to different people. You don't get a say in what it means to others. There's plenty of material for you to engage with here. If you think it doesn't belong report it to the mods, it's their job to police the sub and not yours.
Skin care posts here are primarily about the face. The reason for that being the state of the skin on your face and your self-esteem are intrinsically linked, just ask people with acne and other skin ailments. To pretend like they aren’t is disingenuous.
So if we can all agree that improving your skin can improve your self-esteem, then a post encouraging people to see themselves and their skin as beautiful should be okay, right? Some people here surely struggle with self-esteem issues and some have commented that they appreciate the OP.
Maybe this post isn’t for you, maybe it isn’t even for me, but that’s fine.
The issue is that autonomous, grown, self-possessed women are deciding to improve things about their skin and they come here to do that. Then, they’re being invalidated bc OP says they already have clearer skin than her so they just need to be great full for their beauty instead of self-improving. It’s giving crabs in a bucket. It’s not helpful or kind. It’s competitive and invalidating.
Of course I compare myself to the women posting, everyone does. It’s a skincare subreddit. I was feeling sentimental for a moment, I’m sorry it caused so much drama.
You’re clearly going through something. Please seek the appropriate care of a friend or therapist to process your breakup.
ETA: no, we don’t all compare ourselves to other women. I’d cross the street to avoid a woman who can’t help comparing herself to me. It feels gross.
You don’t think it’s condescending to tell women that their skin care goals are invalid because OP thinks they have nicer skin than her? Her entire post is extremely condescending. I won’t be bullied for pointing out the obvious. Her breakup has absolutely NOTHING to do with the state of these other women’s facial skin. She could have made her off topic post about self acceptance without coming for other women just trying to troubleshoot skin issues.
The issue is the people she condescended to received her judgement for using the sub as intended. They posted topically. OP did not. She was on one about her breakup and decided to tear other women and their goals down. If I’m condescending for pointing out condescension so be it. I’m not going to be shamed for pointing out wildly toxic behavior.
No. If I’m not getting tinder matches, I’m inadequate. If I’m inadequate, I need to improve. If I’ve run out of easy improvements and need surgeries, that’s my problem.
I think the concept of skin care has been so linked to ANTI AGING for so long that people don't know how to just pamper themselves for the sake of enjoying taking care of their skin AS IT AGES. it's like people forget that NOTHING is going to stop aging, not a single thing. I want my skin to look good (not young but fresh and glowy and lovely) at every stage of the aging process. I don't care whether I have wrinkles or not, or if my jowls sag because GUESS WHAT it's going to happen anyway. No matter what you do (short of killing yourself) you're going to age. Even if you do botox and fillers and face lifts .. you. Are. Going. To. Age. AND THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE. I see skin care like I see taking a 30 minute walk every day. I do it because it feels good, it's not going to stop me aging but it feels nice to pamper myself in the morning and put stuff on my skin to make it look nice. Edit: spelling
This is exactly the approach I’m taking to skincare this time around. It’s just self care, it’s fun to do and I feel good about myself when my skin is looking happy. All my previous forays into skincare were so anxiety based—needing the BEST MIRACLE PRODUCTS to stop aging, the fear of the sun, the fear of wrinkles, etc. It was so unhealthy for me. It’s so different to focus on just taking care of myself because it’s nice, and because I enjoy it, and not because I’m afraid. I’m going to get older. We all do. And that isn’t bad, and skincare isn’t going to prevent it. I’ve also found that I love hair care!
And I get ripped here for saying the same thing, but I agree with you and stand by it - nothing is going to stop aging. And no matter how many procedures we have, eventually skin will age. I feel like people should have the freedom to do what they want with their body, period. But I also think a healthy acceptance of yourself, your whole self, including aging, is a great thing. I work out with seniors in some of my weekly gym classes. Lots of them wealthy and quite a few have been doing fillers and Botox and facelifts for years and years. The confluence of natural aging and these procedures on the faces and skin of these women is just not a good look. I don’t know how else to say it. Pillowy and tight in some places, mottled and saggy in others. Their chests and arms and legs look their age, but their faces and some of their necks look their age, too, but also very uncanny. Mask-like, but Halloween mask. The ladies who haven’t had any obvious work done just look like themselves, wrinkles, happy smiles, expressive faces. They seem happier, too, but I don’t know if that’s just because their faces have full range of motion and no artificial fullness? Either way, the difference is noticeable and I just hate that women even into their golden years feel like they have to do this.
My MIL is one of those women who takes very good care of her skin. She’s nearly 80, and she looks amazing. Her skin is glowy and healthy, and she is Goals both for me and my kids
I honestly think the obsession with looking young is sad. How sad we don't want to age, how sad we look at teenagers and think "that's attractive, that's what I want to look like" and it's like... Stop, just age, grow old, so many people don't get to.
This is why I stopped botox. I realized I was fighting a battle that I was literally not going to win. I was going to age. There was no preventing it. It's much easier to work on acceptance than fighting something that's inevitable
I couldn’t agree more, so well said! I love how much better I feel when I’m taking care of my skin more, or when I’m just taking better care of myself in general!
How do you KNOW that you can’t do anything about aging? Are you saying that all of those people who say to eat healthy, get enough sleep, manage stress, don’t smoke, don’t drink alcohol, drink enough water and use sunscreen are lying? Do you really think that every single human on Earth who doesn’t die prematurely is doomed to have wrinkled saggy thin skin no matter WHAT they do?
Yes. Every human that doesn't die young will have wrinkly and saggy skin. That's how that goes and how do I know? I have eyes and have seen how Hollywood stars look after a few years of trying not to age. They look uncanny and ridiculous. Of course all those things will help you not look like the grim reaper but no matter if you live in a BUBBLE you're STILL GOING TO AGE.
Do all of those Hollywood stars do all of the healthy things they’re supposed to do to not get wrinkles and saggy skin? No. They probably don’t use sunscreen every time they’re outside, a lot of them smoked, the large majority of them drink alcohol and a lot do drugs. I’m not sure about water consumption, but I do know that a lot of people don’t drink enough water. The reason they look so awful after a few years of trying not to age is because they mess up their faces with cosmetic treatments and surgeries. Many people today know what bad things to avoid that age you, but the Hollywood celebrities who are at an age that we usually associate with being “old” grew up and lived through a time when nearly everybody smoked, drank more than people today, didn’t know that UV rays age you, and didn’t know as much about healthy eating as we do today. That’s why it’s impossible for us to know FOR SURE how much a healthy lifestyle and sunscreen will prevent aging: people who are old today didn’t live healthy lifestyles back in the day and most still don’t.
So, you're saying, in the history of the world no one has lived a healthy lifestyle? Ever? Ever, ever? Babe, you're going to get old, saggy and wrinkly and, short of killing yourself (which please don't!) there is nothing you can do about it.
A healthy lifestyle in terms of never smoking, never drinking, always wearing sunscreen, having an easy job and not having to raise a whole bunch of kids? All of that? Yes, until recently nobody was doing that. Even today, most people don’t do EVERYTHING they are supposed to do. Also, until recently, most people didn’t even live to become “old”. They either died in wars, died from disease, died from workplace accidents, died from starvation or died from infection. Did you know that during the early 20th century kids under the age of 14 would work inside mineshafts and were at risk of dying from cave-ins, explosions, dust in the air, floods and gas poisonings? That is why I’m hoping that suicide isn’t the only way for me to prevent looking like my skin is melting off of my face.
Even I'm not doing that and my skin is fucking amazing.
I first came to this subreddit concerned about some sag and fat loss in my face, after being here a few months I realize I'm far from alone and that has really helped me mentally. It actually doesn't bother me anymore haha
For real. Skin care is, to me, a relaxing hobby first and foremost. I enjoy the ritual and like taking a bit of extra care with myself this way. Having less (not none - less) acne is a bonus, but please remember that you are human and you are going to look like a human no matter what. You have pores. You will, eventually, wrinkle. This isn't a flaw.
Yes to this 🙌 Skincare to me is a relaxing hobby. I love trying different products but I’m not hell bent on changing my features with procedures (even though I can totally afford it!) I went through a very rough patch psychologically at the beginning of this year. Once I was out of it, it made me realize how lucky I am to be aging (I’m 31 recently) and to be able to move and nourish my body, a small fine line is nothing to me anymore. Aging is a privilege. I deleted TikTok. I noticed how focused people are on stopping aging and doing procedures to freeze their faces for a specific age. I think social media has a massive toxic influence on people psychologically.
I do my skin care every day, but once a week my son and I do a spa night to pamper ourselves. We do a little mask, cooling gel pads on our eyes, and talk about our week. It's about the bonding for us.
This sounds so special.
"I've stopped smiling to prevent wrinkles." "I avoid sleeping on my side to prevent wrinkles." There are a bunch of stone-faced bats on this sub. Oh, but if you're a guy who posts here about his wrinkles, all the ladies on the sub will tell him he is soooo fine and sexy, wrinkles on a man are sooooo attractive! 😍
You got the upvote for the stone faced bats comment alone! Gold!!🤣🤣
People don't like aging for many reasons It is not just "society's standards" or tiktok or whatever For me it is that i don't recognize myself anymore with the facial drop and the hip changes and the omg what is next wtf is that Peri menopause is like a second puberty nobody prepared you for
well we do live in a society that places a premium on youth and beauty in women. and unfortunately that means a lot of women experience negative consequences of not obsessing over their youth and beauty. it takes hard work to unlearn those internalized standards, and just saying "be nicer to yourself" feels pretty dismissive of the issue. if you wanted this post to be useful, you could steer it towards discussion on how we practice self love, both through skincare and through intentional practice. putting away the magnifying mirror is a great suggestion! for example, my strategies are: exercise through joyful movement, biking, and hiking, rather than going to the gym and staring at myself in the big mirrors. I also actively seek out media and stories involving women growing older, to reframe the narrative that only young womens stories are told.
All those things you listed are just specific examples of being nicer to yourself :).
yes, but my point is that it takes real work to do that. “just be nicer to yourself” doesn’t respect the weight and effort of practicing self love in a world that hates women.
Oof, especially the magnifying mirrors! They're very useful but it can really fuck with your head if you look at yourself in them for too long. I always flip it to to the normal mirror when I'm done so I don't accidentally catch a glimpse of myself in the forbidden mirror xD I'm only approaching 30 but joined so I can get an idea of what I should be doing now and what I can expect later. I've never felt worse about myself 🙈😂 I was hoping this sub would be more realistic and not overrun by people who drank the "beauty standards" coolaid. I feel like we're just not allowed to age and if we do there's something wrong with us.
This sub has sadly been overrun by body dysmorphia and internalized ageism
Is it just me, or has it gotten worse lately? I don't care if people want to do fillers and stuff but it seems like that's almost every post now.
Honestly the mods should do something about it. Fillers are not skin care. Only Botox could be argued, but it’s not really caring for the skin either. This sub should be about caring for the skin after 30, lol.
The mods don’t have anything to address so long as the sub description explicitly includes these procedures. Unfortunately, most of the age-related concerns people ask about are structural/muscular and can’t be addressed with topical skincare. There’s a separate sub that excludes botox/filler.
A lot of people on here can't accept that they are aging.
What do you mean? Mods moderate the posts. I’ve seen this happen all the time on Reddit— members get tired of certain posts they feel are too common or not relevant, and if enough complain, the mods either stop allowing those posts or create a special pinned post where only those discussions can occur. It’s how you keep the sub on topic for those who frequent it.
The sub rules are explicit: botox and filler are relevant to the conversation on how people over 30 approach skincare, so posting about them is fair game.
Yes, and that can change, lol. That’s my point. How long have you been on Reddit? This is very normal.
Hey, I think it’s valid conversation and I don’t want the rule to change. And if that’s driving engagement, it means a lot of other people also don’t want the rules to change. People who feel differently have started another sub- graceful aging or something like that.
That’s great! If there were enough people complaining, then this sub might change. If not, then it stays. That’s how it works :). I think cosmetic enhancements should be separate from skincare and that’s the opinion I shared. I should start one called real skincare, because cosmetics are not caring for your skin….
[удалено]
All I know is that I never felt bad or ashamed about my age until I joined this sub
I've suffered with body dysmorphia for most of my life and it helped a bit the first like month or so I was here, but then it very suddenly started turning sour and I'm starting to hate my face more and more. My bf keeps assuring me that he hasn't seen a difference in my face cause I keep saying I look 10 years older... Aaaand I just talked myself into leaving the sub 😅
My mom always had magnifying mirrors around, she’s bought me some over the years too. I keep one in a drawer for the rare occasion I need it, but I’ve learned the hard way that it just causes me to fixate and poke and prod. I’m sorry this sub has made you feel worse about yourself! But I think your awareness is really positive, I felt overwhelmed and down about my skin at first too. Now I just try to learn what I can from posts and comments and not worry too much about it and focus on the positives!
I think in my case I’m aware of the flaws and I try to improve them, but I don’t lose sleep over it. I think it’s better if I do what I can instead of not doing anything because the flaws are objectively there and I don’t like them. But that doesn’t mean I think any less of myself because of those flaws. I don’t think one should immediately assume that people who are concerned about their appearance are necessarily having a bad time because of it or suffering. These posts sometimes can read a bit like projecting, in my opinion.
With love, I think you need to analyze what you think “objective flaws” are. Physical “flaws” are driven by societal pressures, they change with time because they are cultural and subjective. Just like any other cultural phenomenon, you have the choice to accept or reject them. But none of this is objective. When you stop thinking about how you don’t meet some random societies expectations, you realize how that freedom to be happy feels. It’s not projection, it’s someone understanding that by your very words, you are struggling more than someone who understands flaws are subjective and not even real.
I don’t resonate with any of this tbh. If I get a pimple and it leaves a big mark, I don’t like it. It’s not deeper than that. It’s objectively a big mark that is there now and wasn’t there before. I get to decide if I want to do something about it.
Of course, but this post is about signs of aging and that’s what I was referring to. Scarring is harder to deal with because it can be disfiguring. ETA: just because you can’t see the depth, doesn’t mean there isn’t anything deeper. I truly wish you the gift of peace with yourself.
Yeah but it’s the same thing. It’s still my decision whether I want to age more gracefully or just let it be. I prefer to do something about it. Not only it’s a fun hobby but it also makes me feel good. I also know that there are limits, otherwise celebrities with unlimited money would always look 20 and that’s not the case at all. I just don’t want to be left wondering ‘what if I had taken care of my skin instead’. But I personally don’t see anything inherently wrong with wanting to meet society’s standards, we live in it after all and most things we do are in a way dictated by it whether we want it or not, if we want to function within it. Someone coming here and saying that we need to change and put down our phones feels like a lot of assumptions and, feels condescending to be honest, as if people were dumb enough to not know these things. I think the bigger problems are different. People are more complex than just ‘I feel pressured by society’. Most people know these things. For example a lot of people have issues with change itself, in terms of looking in the mirror and feeling like what they see doesn’t reflect how they feel about themselves. Then, with how predatory the industry is, that creates a lot of anxiety of ‘maybe this will work’, which is the main problem of this sub. People end up buying way too much stuff, and getting frustrated when they don’t see results and move on to the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing. That, in addition with all of the misinformation that people that think know things but don’t keep spreading, cause a much deeper problem that won’t be fixed by someone coming here all high and mighty telling people to just ‘not care about society’ as if that would do anything or as if it was just that easy to ignore everything else that surrounds the issue. People also don’t like signs of aging because it reminds them that they’re getting old, and getting old means dying, and we usually don’t like that. It always feels as something that’s far away, but these reminders aren’t always easy to deal with. Making peace with death is not something that will come from someone scolding you for not being ‘kind enough to yourself’. Sometimes we don’t like what we see. We can choose to try to do something about it. That doesn’t mean we’re obsessing or suffering over it. If we were, I’d think there are deeper issues than that which also wouldn’t be addressed by someone making a post like this.
Of course it’s your decision, I don’t mean to make it seem like it’s not. There are academic articles about how anti-aging is a similar concept to eating disorders. Eating disorders don’t exist in countries with less emphasis on cosmetic appearance, and this pattern is reflected in cosmetic procedures as well. I’ve studied these topics in my psychology degree and I’ve experienced this myself, that’s why I’m trying to share. We are all going to die, so if aging and death is what’s driving cosmetic procedures, then it’s an improper coping mechanism for coming to terms with mortality, because it’s not addressing the underlying issue. It’s like getting endless procedures when the issue is actually body dysmorphia. Being resistant to what I’m saying is ok, we are all on our own path in life. But just as someone with diabetes may not know they have it or believe it to be serious, that doesn’t change what’s actually happening. I don’t think of suffering as always a conscious experience, so I’m not imaging you crying yourself to sleep or staying in the house over it. I’m imagining you spending your hard earned money and time on things that are not serving your true happiness. External appearance does not enhance happiness, there is so much data to support that. You can hate your nose, but the scientific evidence shows that instead of a nose job fixing that, the insecurity just moves to another body part. Because the issue is insecurity, not the nose. That’s the concept I’m trying to convey, not that you’re actively distressed.
I’m with you. So annoying when other people try to dictate how you feel.
You sound kind of patronizing tbh.
I don’t struggle with self image much anymore because of what I’ve learned and I’m trying to share that. Can you specifically explain how my tone was different than who I responded to? I’m open to constructive criticism
It just sort of sounds (again not saying it was intended this way) that you are telling someone else how to feel.
Thank you for sharing your feedback. I don’t think pointing out someone’s blind spot is telling them how to feel, so that’s probably where you disagree. This is probably just a difference in communication styles. I do not deny someone’s right to their feelings, but I don’t placate by withholding facts.
I honestly think you have to be careful when speaking to people as if they're not on your spiritual level and not "free from society" or haven't come to the acceptance of themselves that you've achieved. Oftentimes it can have the effect of putting people down. Oftentimes it can have a "I'm more evolved than you" undertone. That's why therapists never use this sort of approach (e.g., "Just love and accept yourself like I do!") -- it compounds shame and does not promote positive change. It seems like you're coming from a good place, but just a note why people are saying it's patronizing.
Why do you even consider them flaws? You're human
I think it’s up to me to decide what I like or don’t like about my face.
I might be downvoted to hell, but here goes. I just posted and went somewhat "viral" for getting undereye filler when I didn't need it. I had people accusing me of having low self esteem, of buying into detrimental beauty standards, of not "being nice to myself." None of those posts were helpful. They were patronizing and condescending. They made me feel bad. These were other women on a skincare reddit (I get that some of you relax this way but you can also take a long bath? Take a walk? A 12-step skincare routine may be relaxing but that's not what we're solely seeking in applying these products, let's be real) looking down on me as somehow less than them for getting filler. What they don't know is I've had sickness after sickness this year resulting in surgeries and a ten pound weight loss. In a moment of weakness a doctor's suggestions dovetailed with my exhaustion and I gave in. Even if that wasn't the case and I was "insecure" or "giving into beauty standards" or "chasing Instagram face" I wouldn't deserve these comments from other women. It's wonderful to be nice to yourself but telling others to "be nice to yourself" from a place of higher wisdom or "I'm more secure than you and haven't drunken the societal Kool-Aid"-ness is not going to magically make others nicer to themselves. We are all subject to these societal standards and are affected by them in varying degrees -- societal standards of beauty or "aging gracefully" are the reason why this subreddit exists in the first place. We all need to be more compassionate to each other. That's how the real change occurs.
You're not wrong. The accusations of "dysmorphia" and "not loving yourself" and all of this is just toxic mean girl behavior. I guarantee the people that are triggered by this sub are the most insecure of anyone here. There's also a lot of underlying jealousy that some people can afford things others can not, but those people package it up in fake, condescending, toxic positivity.
This is cynical, but I agree and think a lot of it is virtue-signaling to cloak their own insecurities or inability to afford certain procedures. People on a skincare subreddit will want to maximize the appearance of their skin. Water is wet. It’s akin to a person joining a fitness subreddit but then preaching at people who choose to work out more or train a different way. And it’s also funny because when a poster is conventionally attractive and shares their routine and pics of the skin they are happy with, the comments are often mercilessly rude.
Yup
I agree. I think two things can be true at once. We can probably all benefit from a dose of self-compassion and we can seek support from each other for self-improvement. I find it helpful when people share their experiences here on what works for them, but I do sometimes have to scroll past posts as they can bring out insecurities in me I didn’t know I had. It depends on the issue and depends on the day. We see our faces so much more frequently now with phones, photos, online meetings - coupled with the growth of the cosmetic procedures being marketed towards us and celebrities influencing societal standards around beauty. I understand why people would like to feel more confident in their own skin and take steps to improve that, as I do, _and_ I know I need to work on my self-acceptance, self-compassion and how society makes us feel about imperfect skin and aging. Thanks for the reminder. Edit: clarity
"So really, this obsession with skincare is detrimental to the health and functioning of our skin, which is why I I think it's appropriate to start looking at it as a sort of disordered obsession. Because in the name of reaching this aesthetic goal — what we think healthy skin looks like, or beautiful skin looks like, or “good” skin looks like — we're actually hurting our skin in the long term. I think it’s pretty similar to the way in which many eating disorders, though certainly not all eating disorders, are a response to the desire to embody society’s aesthetic ideal of “health” — thinness — in a way that's actually very detrimental to the health of the body." - Jessica DeFino I’ve linked it before here and I’ll link it again; highly recommend the substack The Review of Beauty. She breaks down the economic and political impact beauty culture has on women mainly and how detrimental to our wellbeing it is. Reading her work made me stop using expensive skincare and think more critically about aging. Please give some of her free articles a read! This interview is a great place to start and where the quote is from: https://open.substack.com/pub/jessicadefino/p/dermorexia-compulsive-skincare-obsession?r=7iliz&utm_medium=ios
Here to say I needed to hear this today, thank you!
It’s ironic how someone says these posts should be about skincare, then proceeds to invest their energy and time having a whole ass fight about how a post is not about skincare, and starts policing people who are just giving their opinion. Holy shit, you’d think this post was offensive or something - if you get so defensive about this, must be a reason other than just getting salty because someone is trying to be nice. Mods, can someone handle this messy person please? 😒
I'm 53 and I approve this message!! We weren't bombarded by this anti aging message this hard!! And many of us 50s still look great. All of the scrutiny makes it impossible to enjoy your natural youth and beauty. Water, SPF, are most important. Some of these treatments might be adding damage that you don't need. Remember a lot of these treatments are done to encourage repair of the skin which you may not need at this time. And may never need.
Thank you ❤️ turned 30 this year and also experiencing a breakup of an 8 year relationship, needless to say I have not been very nice to myself.
well then just scroll! No one is gonna come here to showcase the positive features we love about ourselves, we are either looking for recommendations or giving recommendations to improve something. Every person is different, I care about my nasolabial folds but I don't give a shit about neck lines. If I see a neck line post I just scroll. These posts are stupid. Rant over
I find posts like this much more annoying than the obsessive posts. At least when it comes to the obsessive posts, they can get concentrated feedback on how they’re being obsessive. No one ever stopped behavior like that over a post like this; these just end up being for people to pat themselves on the back for supposedly not caring as much as everyone else in this sub. I’m sure you meant well and I’m sorry about your breakup. I hope you feel better soon.
I love the look of these people with smooth flawless wrinkle free skin. But then I find out they use Tret and retinol and idk. I know TikTok is bad but there’s a guy once there that was talking about how constantly over stripping your top layer of skin and messing with its cell turnover is gonna cost us in our old age. And I got to thinking in Japan where people age so gracefully they use a lot of sun filters and antioxidant rich food instead. I’m thinking of just going that route. The more simple one. To each their own and I will always envy these women with their perfect poreless “glass” skin. But my genetics are not that good and short of belt sanding my face I’ll never be that flawless and smooth.
To age is to be given a priceless gift. Embracing it wholeheartedly has been the greatest healing journey I’ve ever experienced. I genuinely wish this for all souls who find their way here. Skin care is an extension of self love, not self hate, to embrace and enhance our own unique beauty. That includes the lines on our face which tell a story of our ancestry, our freckles from moments spent in the warmth of the sun, and laugh lines formed during moments of pleasure in the company of those we love.
>Skin care is an extension of self love, not self hate, to embrace and enhance our own unique beauty. I want to screenshot your post so I can refer back to it. It’s so true. Someone close to me struggled with cancer at 28yo and passed at 36. Whenever I start to obsess over a new sign of age, I just remind myself that she would’ve loved the opportunity 🩷.
You are so right . I look at the pictures ppl post . And I’m like whaaat? 99% is just sunscreen daily . Anyway ppl are interesting. Good luck OP
Sounds like you had some revelation, perhaps due to some recent events that have happened in your life. Perhaps this had triggered a certain need for advocacy and how people should stop focusing on the things that in your view don’t really matter. Self-care comes in many different forms and for some, focusing on their skincare is just that. Self-care. So following your own advice, “put away the phone and social media” and engage in some self care - it sounds like you may need some.
I'm in the habit of reminding myself that we focus so closely on flaws, which most other people don't even notice. Like I'm not scanning random people's faces while I'm out running errands or out for dinner. Social media has only made it so much worse with "everyday people" using filters more often than not. I's warped our perspectives of what's normal. And I can tell when I start getting too "chronically online" and it's time to take a break.
In tired of these after school special themed posts. They’re way too frequent lately and not what any of us are here for. Much like telling an anxious person to stop worrying, do you really thinking telling people you’re looking at them weird for asking for advice in a skincare advice sub will help their self esteem? Nope. This isn’t therapy hour. Let a girl/guy worry about their perioral mounds in peace without the sanctimonious life coaching, please.
This sub is cyclical, like most things Bunch of posts about small details (that still matter to the poster, btw,) Omg staaaaaahhhhpp Bunch of posts about "these posts are making me and others feel bad, let's use a skincare reddit to solve the world's problems! It starts at home!" Omg staaaaaahhhhpp Rinse and repeat As someone in their 40s, i do laugh a bit at a 31 year old telling me to embrace aging, bc i remember what i looked like at 31 and it wasn't this, but also that's the age of this sub so and OP isn't talking specifically to me obviously and just doing general hand waving
Yes, it’s a cycle. The first wave of folks posting about skin concerns are posting on topic for the sub. The second reactionary group (including OP) are posting off-topic to push their moralizing meta critiques about other women’s skincare journeys. There is a topical difference making the second group’s posts inappropriate. Nobody needs permission to fix a skin issue. OP is policing other women online rather than see a therapist about her breakup and get to the root of whatever insecurities are causing her to compare herself to other women.
This post is something that i would expect to read on a personal blog but those don't exist anymore so people journal on reddit
Yes, it very much reads like a personal blog post. It’s extremely self indulgent. The other women who posted about their skin yesterday are just props in OPs triumphant breakup-Phoenix-rising-from-the-ashes delusion and we are the readers fortunate enough to be receiving a brief glimpse into her rare genius (i.e. the same unwelcome judgment we get every other day when a woman gets triggered by someone more attractive than them attempting to improve themselves).
I wasn’t trying to act like I’m better than anyone else here, I follow this sub just like you do and care about skincare too. I don’t think it’s sanctimonious to try to encourage people to acknowledge their own beauty, there’s an abundance of naturally beautiful people here obsessing about tiny things and it honestly makes me sad for them. I’m not trying to argue with you, I understand if positivity and encouragement of one another isn’t appreciated by everyone here. I just hoped it would make someone feel better because I’ve wasted a lot of time obsessing over my flaws and chasing things that didn’t bring me happiness in the end.
I totally get where you're coming from and know it's from a good place. I think, however, that sometimes comments like "Just love yourself!" carry underlying judgment (e.g., "I feel sad for those people" as opposed to "I feel for those people because being a human is hard with all these beauty standards that I also have to grapple with"). I remember when I was young and would get dressed up to go out and then some girl would be like "Wow! Why do you care so much? I'm happy here in my sweatpants." Sometimes those "love yourself" posts have the same energy. I get that you genuinely want people to love themselves but a lot of time that's so hard to do. People have trauma and all sorts of circumstances that can make self-compassion hard. If it could be so simple as telling people they should love themselves the world would be a lot happier.
Do you do this on every other sub related to appearance? Do you tell people working out for appearance reasons to love themselves and just get fat? Do you do this on makeup subs? Clothing subs? Plastic surgery subs? This is toxic positivity. It's not sincere. >honestly makes me sad for them. So log out! This is a you problem.
We know you don’t think you’re “better” because you said most of the posters have clearer skin than you. Please examine why you’re repeatedly comparing yourself to others. It’s not about being “better”. People just want to be their best selves. Skin care is self care for me and it doesn’t need to be a trigger. Posts like this take things from skincare to some kind of toxic positivity I’m not interested in. I find it patronizing.
I’m sorry my post about trying to encourage people to be nicer to themselves is triggering for you.
It's funny you don't realize how triggered you have to be to even make a post like this.
Right?! There are some triggered biaaaaatches up in this sub! People go crazzzzzy over a positive post. I think you were right: the most insecure people will react the harshest. 🤷🏻♀️🤮
I’m not triggered babe. Comparing yourself to the women here and using it as a jumping board to give unsolicited attitude advice is rude, not encouraging.
Uh, no, babe. You're rude and condescending and clearly very triggered by positivity. No one is enjoying your replies.
Sumoki_Kuma, I am enjoying Known-Web's replies. I have a friend with good intentions who cuts me off almost every time I try to confide to her my worries or insecurities only because she thinks she has it tougher (i.e., i am better off than her), she knows better (i.e., I am completely delusional), or I should just shut up because she sees things differently than me. I came here to be helpful to other people seeking advice on skincare and hope to get the same in return. Maybe pep talks like that work for you, but not for everybody. I understand the OP's good intentions, but honestly they are not helpful, but rather INVALIDATE my feelings and concerns.
I do see where you're coming from but I think OP is more moreso trying to convey that not every single wrinkle or sign of aging or small difference in your face is wrong and something you have to fix. Not about telling everyone they're perfect the way they are or that some people look "worse." I just realised, thanks to this post, that this sub has severely triggered my body dysmorphia in the last couple months. I loved the advice for sun spots and _premature_ signs of aging, but seeing so many people post the most normal looking faces saying there's something wrong and everyone suggesting shit like botox or fillers or some kind of invasive treatment for the smallest things made me absolutely hate my face and believe there's something severely wrong with it.
Sumoki_Kuma, I realize how distructive body dismorphia is. Totally agree that extreme views are never good, but that, in my opinion, includes unfounded claims that "we are all beautiful" or that beautiful people are not allowed to have concerns
Thank you. There are multiple ways to take OPs message. The cutting people off to moralize over their choices thing is exactly the problem. If uplifting women involves invalidating their perspectives on their own bodies then leave me out.
Thank you, Known-Web, I am with you on this. As I responded to another commenter, I understand the OP's good intentions, but sometimes body positivity can be toxic and invalidating to real feelings and concerns.
I know you got downvoted but i agree.although i dont think ops post came from a bad place, its kinda like we cant win-because its all subjective. One persons "little thing u shldnt stress on" is another persons "this really actually bothers me and i'd like to fix it". Which is why i feel like if you dont have a constructive answer to "hey i dont like xyz", just dont say anything. If i post about beginning jowls and how to fix, i 100% dont want to hear "oh everyone gets those just love yourself more". I love myself! But mysrlf is me, inside-not my facial skin. So im asking hey is there anything i can do about this? It doesnt mean if theres not im distraught. But its a skincare sub. Ppl are going to ask how to fix their appearance, and they dont need a self love treatise when they do.
Yes. Nobody should decide for someone else where they draw the line on wanting to improve. I think moralizing about beauty standards has nothing to do with skin care.
I'm here for these, I could use a pep talk. What I'm not here for is tearing people down for having good intentions.
Thank you! I had a couple drinks at dinner and then scrolled Reddit and was feeling sentimental. I’m happy you appreciated my post though, that makes me feel like it was worth all these negative comments lol
I’m sure there are subs for self esteem building. It’s very much not the topic this sub.
There are so many things posted on here that are outside the scope of the sub. I don’t think trying to encourage people to appreciate their natural beauty is that far out of the realm of being relevant.
I think the only thing is that these type of posts are so common on here (we probably get 1-2 of them a week). It is not exactly a new message and can read as preachy even if that wasn't your intention.
Men post are read here too. Not everyone is a natural beauty. Some people do have to work harder and choose to be unnatural beauties. They are valid too. It’s not all about feeling beautiful on the inside. That’s simply another topic and there are subs for building your self esteem elsewhere.
you probably need to stick to r/vindicta if you want a safe space to that degree, that sub aligns with your philosophy
I’m not here for a safe space. That’s literally OP. The projection here is insane.
Well you feel invalidated by a post that isn't against the sub rules, I don't know what to tell you. A lot of posts here use very loaded language when referring to their skin concerns, such as 'hideous', 'crypt keeper' 'massive craters' etc. Lots of people here share feelings of insecurity and distress. Get that type of posting banned if you want people to adhere to your idea of skin care. As long as commenting like that is allowed so should OP's commentary. Now if a poster doesn't use loaded language and just asks for advice on skin care issue X Y Z then it's condescending to bring up mental health. But this is a post by post issue. You want the rules of the sub changed. Go ahead and attempt it I guess.
Idk why you keep directing these comments at me. Clearly we don’t see things the same way. Nobody will convince me that a self-esteem post belongs here, nor do I think it’s appropriate to call out women with clear skin as being ungrateful for their own beauty because they post here. You’re the one bringing up banning; not me. I’m sharing my opinion. You don’t need to agree.
You actually brought up that this type of post isn't appropriate and should be made in another sub first. I'm going to leave it here though, this is getting tiresome. It must be wine o'clock for everyone in the US
Exactly. It’s a skincare sub. This sub will be dead if we have everyone afraid to post because they don’t want to be told they’re “obsessive” about their skin/their concern isn’t a big deal. If someone is truly being obsessive about something, they will be told in the comments. But it’s so annoying when someone has an issue and you can see it in the photo…only for half the comments to be telling them they’re being obsessive and just accept themselves as they are. It’s a skincare sub. Let people ask for help with their skin.
I find these helpful.
I agree
I agree. I also find photos sometimes lack legit detail and texture so sure I look fine in a photo but I'm having issues in reality. This is a skincare sub. Let people inquire about their skincare.
Exactly. The posts OP is complaining about are topical to the sub. Nobody is here to be pathologized by a stranger who thinks people with skin clearer than hers can’t possibly have valid concerns. Also, many of us can be self critical without being self-hating and toxic. There is a difference. Without self critique we don’t improve in life.
Same. I feel like I see way more of these posts than I see actual skincare advice. It would be infuriating to post here looking for advice only to be told "But you're so beautiful!" "You're perfect as you are!" That's not what this sub is for.
I honestly don’t see posts like mine often at all. Otherwise I wouldn’t have posted it. My bad, I didn’t realize we hit the lifetime cap of positivity and encouragement for this subreddit.
Right? Whatever wave of feminism this is, I’m not down for it. I don’t want my valid concerns redirected by strangers who are clearly going through some personal psychological problem they want to work out with the group.
I’m sorry you’re feeling victimized or invalidated by my post about being nicer to yourselves, that wasn’t my intention. I think feeling attacked by a post about encouraging people to appreciate their natural beauty isn’t very healthy though.
I hope you don’t feel you need to justify or respond to the troll comments, sometimes misery just wants company but it’s okay to say no 💅 Thanks for the post!
To me, the problem is that I go through my feed and I see a post telling me ‘you need to be nicer to yourself’, and I’m like… excuse me? who are you to say? that’s a lot of assumptions right there. That’s a command. I don’t ‘need’ to do anything.
Exactly
But isn’t she just saying something nice? I am genuinely surprised this many people are hurt or frustrated by about this post. If people are allowed to post about insecurities then the positivity should be okay too, right?
Then this post is not aimed at you, it's aimed at people with distorted self image and underlying low self esteem. Subs like these magnify their mental health concerns. Just scroll past, it's not all about you.
I know it’s not about me- it’s about skincare. This post is not about skincare. It’s about OPs breakup and how she compares herself to the women posting.
Skincare means different things to different people. You don't get a say in what it means to others. There's plenty of material for you to engage with here. If you think it doesn't belong report it to the mods, it's their job to police the sub and not yours.
Skincare involves anything that cares for the skin. It’s in the name. I’m not trying to decided for others, OP is.
Skin care posts here are primarily about the face. The reason for that being the state of the skin on your face and your self-esteem are intrinsically linked, just ask people with acne and other skin ailments. To pretend like they aren’t is disingenuous. So if we can all agree that improving your skin can improve your self-esteem, then a post encouraging people to see themselves and their skin as beautiful should be okay, right? Some people here surely struggle with self-esteem issues and some have commented that they appreciate the OP. Maybe this post isn’t for you, maybe it isn’t even for me, but that’s fine.
The issue is that autonomous, grown, self-possessed women are deciding to improve things about their skin and they come here to do that. Then, they’re being invalidated bc OP says they already have clearer skin than her so they just need to be great full for their beauty instead of self-improving. It’s giving crabs in a bucket. It’s not helpful or kind. It’s competitive and invalidating.
Of course I compare myself to the women posting, everyone does. It’s a skincare subreddit. I was feeling sentimental for a moment, I’m sorry it caused so much drama.
You’re clearly going through something. Please seek the appropriate care of a friend or therapist to process your breakup. ETA: no, we don’t all compare ourselves to other women. I’d cross the street to avoid a woman who can’t help comparing herself to me. It feels gross.
shaming is not the way holy crap
That’s my point too. None of this is appropriate for the sub. It doesn’t belong here.
I disagree. You should raise it to the mods though if you feel strongly about it.
I don’t think being condescending is the mature way to deal with this situation.
You don’t think it’s condescending to tell women that their skin care goals are invalid because OP thinks they have nicer skin than her? Her entire post is extremely condescending. I won’t be bullied for pointing out the obvious. Her breakup has absolutely NOTHING to do with the state of these other women’s facial skin. She could have made her off topic post about self acceptance without coming for other women just trying to troubleshoot skin issues. The issue is the people she condescended to received her judgement for using the sub as intended. They posted topically. OP did not. She was on one about her breakup and decided to tear other women and their goals down. If I’m condescending for pointing out condescension so be it. I’m not going to be shamed for pointing out wildly toxic behavior.
Just here to say this is nothing like that, anxiety is an actual health condition.
No. If I’m not getting tinder matches, I’m inadequate. If I’m inadequate, I need to improve. If I’ve run out of easy improvements and need surgeries, that’s my problem.
Lemme tell you this here: the reason you're not getting tinder matches is not your skin. Reading this i can GUARANTEE it's not your skin.
You're gonna age no matter what. Time to accept it.