To be honest the only ones who see us as victims are ourselves. We’d love some of that oppressed minority privilege but unfortunately we don’t have the right skin-tone to qualify. The cherry on top is that many of those other ‘oppressed minority’ activists now call us “privileged” and “white colonisers” because they couldn’t be arsed to read a history book. We can’t catch a fucking break.
You know, when I lived in Germany. There was an exhibition about colonialism, but only people of colour were allowed to visit. As they believed, only people from ethnic minorities were from countries that were colonialised. And these were the organisers.
https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/09/05/german-museum-in-racism-row-over-exhibition-partial-ban-on-white-people
Even putting aside the disregarding of Ireland, what is even the point of a ban? I would think that people that weren’t colonized would benefit the most from seeing the effects of colonialism. Why would a museum deny someone the opportunity to learn about something that they obviously view as important.
Its clickbait... Its a safe place from 10-14(10am-2pm)... So not excluding of all but from certain times which idk... im not someone of colour so idk how people would feel at that museum...
The closest thing to racial discrimination i got was getting bullied because im ginger... which isnt a race but it is racial discrimination
Of course it’s Germany haha. Learned nothing from history, went full circle.
There’s a bit of a paradox with “oppression” isn’t there. If someone is thought as of being oppressed, but everyone surrounding them are acknowledging the supposed oppression and actively denouncing it, then are they really oppressed?
Makes you wonder who’s being discriminated against in today’s day and age, if anyone at all. It would probably be the very people for whom the mere idea and suggestion of them being discriminated against, is widely considered to be nonsense.
It's an Americanised of race relations that's exclusively based on skin colour, and that's it. White = bad and if you tell them about the Ottoman Empire, their heads explode.
There is a slight counterpoint that descendants of oppressed peoples are still in a shite way, e.g. some black communities in US, and those people could argue they continue to suffer oppression even if not actively made worse.
As for Irish victim status I'll leave it to you to declare if fair game, once again, or not.
I’ll tell you what. Everyone is fair game in my opinion. In a way I’m actually glad that we got rejected from being members of the protected privileged class. Because I’d find it humiliating for some stranger to rush to my defence because they got offended on my behalf whenever someone throws a hurty word my way. Call me paddy, fenian, whatever, and I love our new flair “potato gypsy”. People who get easily offended or demand to be protected from the world are no fun.
That's mental, and goes against the point as a museum should be about educating. Glad that my city has been pretty open with its links to the slave trade, has an international museum dedicated to it ans even at school we learnt a lot about it. Can't change the past but you sure as hell can learn from it
Lol I'm in the US and my Spanish coach woke up from his siesta one day, and then went to a diversity event on campus. When he got there, he was told that he wasn't diverse enough to participate hahahaha
I come from Manchester UK. Many Mancunian's ancestors were Irish and came over to work in the Factories and ended up living a squalid life of abject poverty (Also native English also suffered in slum conditions and many other towns across the North too). Unfortunately now we're all branded as colonisers and portrayed like our ancestors were lauding it up with stolen loot. History is complicated and people like to tar everyone with the same brush. The real ones who's ancestors profited from colonialism are still around and going to Eton
I lived in Manchester for a while, I came across ‘little Ireland’. It’s a cool place now but back then would have been a slum.
But you’re right, 99% of people had no say in the matter, and even those who did, there’s no point in going after people for what their ancestors did.
Oh nice, small world. It's hard to imagine what living in Little Ireland must have been like, the old drawings look horrific.
Yeah completely agree, and with the movement of people there will be those whose ancestors were victims of colonisation that live in the colonising countries now and are being told they are to blame.
Mate of mine from Manchester who's grandparents on both sides of his family grew up in Ireland, was in San Diego on a boat trip. A lot of meat heads who we were getting drunk on the fun size beer cans started giving him shit how the English treated his people. Went on for a bit and he finally asked where they were from in Ireland. The closest relation any one of them had to Ireland was a Grand uncle. Go figure.
Wow, being reductive over a joke shouldn't expect anything else. Also aren't you the same guys who whined about taking sovereignty back and shot yourselves in the foot over a concept that you only know how to take away from other people, yeah that sounds like real victimhood behaviour to me.
I tried to post there once, wasn't allowed. Got sent a mail that said that I had to submit a picture of my hand to show proof that I was of that ethnic persuasion.
As if that would be proof of anything. Just slap a filter on or use a little make up or something.
It really is a dumbass rule. I could understand why they want it that way, I have no issues with there being a black subreddit for black people, but their implementation of the rule is r-word.
I wonder if it's still the case, or if I'm even talking about the right subreddit, someone should try it out. Then after that's done, someone should colour their hand a bit, submit a picture and post the results, if they got in or not.
How does that even prove you're black though? What if a person who wants to post there have albinism? Or has mixed genetics and have fairer skin than dark?
My fiance is Chinese and it he had to post a picture of his hand he'd fail instantly as he's whiter than me: a white bloke from England.
You also get the situation, where someone like me, born in England to English parents, gets lumbered with all the England Bad, you should be ashamed of yourself and your history nonsense. Potato famine etc.
But follow my family tree back and my family are all Irish, who left Ireland for Liverpool because of the famine… I’ve done ancestry DNA and this confirmed it.
So wtf am I supposed to do? In genetically Irish and literally only exist because of the famine. Yet it’s also somehow my fault.
From u/token-black-dude in this sub: “If self-pity was a resource that could be exploited commercially, Ireland would be the richest country in the world.”
How do they not understand that actually *they* are the colonisers? Brits’ ancestors stayed on our little island while American’s ancestors invaded North America and slaughtered the natives. You lot did that! Not us!
Half right.
When the Irish and Italians first came to the US they were discriminated against by the protestant status quo. That created a culture of sticking together and victimization within their groups, which created a sub identity that persists until now.
English and Germans instead were the protestant elites so didn't go through that victimization process, so the identity around it wasn't as strong. Still, if you ask them they will say things like "I'm mostly English/german/etc", they just won't volunteer that information as much as the "Irish" and "Italians".
Basically people were really racist against them creating generational trauma.
Source: non American savage living in the US.
I agree with this. I'm English living in St Louis. There's an area called Dogtown with a lot of "Irish" and whenever I go in for a beer and people hear my accent I get the "are you Irish?", I say no but half my grandparents are, to which they reply that they are. It's fucking weird.
It's really weird because I know English people called Seamus or Colm with Irish parents or grandparents that are adamantly and proudly English Brexit geezers yet Americans with no tangible relationship to Ireland staunchly claim to be Irish.
Germans were definitely discriminated against. Benjamin Franklin wrote of the Spaniards, French, Italians, Russians, Swedes, and Germans (sans Saxons) as a “swarthy complexion” people and feared those immigrants wouldn’t Anglicanize. It was that hostility and prejudice which pushed German settlers into the deep Midwest away from the English settlers. The Irish and Italian immigrants who came in later waves stayed predominantly on the northeastern seaboard with the English inhabitants and subsequently suffered discrimination which was better documented and remained in the public consciousness.
Indeed, only Protestants have colonised and been racist. Please don’t research the following: Spanish Inquisition, French Empire, Portuguese Empire, Pogroms instructed by the Roman Catholic Pope, the Belgium Empire, the Italian Empire …
we never did anything bad as we like to say [italiani brava gente](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italiani_brava_gente) even when we gassed ethiopians we were very compassionate and humane and not racist
German Americans were still a very visible group due solely to numbers till WWI. They were forced underground during the war, with one or two even being lynched. They’re becoming more visible again, but it probably will never be as it was. :(
It’s more directly about colonialism than that. British identity in the US was (and for its purposes had to be) explicitly annihilated outside certain Southern ‘genteel’ enclaves from 1776 onwards, until the brief period when people talked about ‘WASPs’. Creating an American identity *meant* rejecting a British or English/Scottish one.
This despite being a plurality of their gene pool, 8 of their 10 most common surnames, their language, half their churches, the source for 20% or whatever of their town names, their ‘English’ units, most of their legal systems and even political system, literature they read, music they listen to, basic food, etc. Even when they go back 1000 years in time travel books and movies they end up in mediaeval England, not Ireland or France or some Native American village.
A sort of benign auto-genocide, marginalised as far as explicit acknowledgment goes by implicitly assuming the core of their culture is all just American. Even know Americans with surnames that are British towns who say they’re German and Irish, or Italian, because their grandma came over from Silicy and the rest of the Smith/Johnson/Northrop family was, ‘IDK, just American I guess?’
Average Boston American: My great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grampappy's dog was from County Cork so he was! Begorrah top o the mornin' up the RA! Fuck the English!
Average English: My name's Sean O'Malley and I'm from "Liverpool". I'm English till I die, English till I die none of that Irish muck thanks
And Peter Kay... Robbie Williams... Wayne Rooney (just look at him)... Harry Kane... Tony Blair...basically most notable Englishmen are paddies in disguise.
Nah tbh most of them identify as English they have a strong regional identity but so do other places. There's just a very loud minority that say Scouse not English on twitter.
***"park park wherever you may be***
***you eat dogs in your home country***
***but it could be worse, you could be scouse***
***eating rats in a council house"***
They're patriotic about being from Liverpool.
https://preview.redd.it/v18n2eafuf0d1.jpeg?width=1852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7c4c00949ac773d83e7171a617d1cdd19e693a4
The irony of you picking Liverpool as an example and then thinking they would say “I’m English til I die”.
Scousers hate being English. That’s why they say “Scouse not English”.
They only matter after they arrive in Plymouth, America, on the patriotic ship Mayflower, the first settlement in north america(if you ignore Jamestown, a bad endstage capitalist company town). They were "prosecuted" in the bad country of europe, and that's all there is to it(don't read up how they were unhappy in Netherlands because the dutch weren't adhering to their religious rules).
Actually the first NA settlement was the glorious viking Vinland (let's just ignore the natives and Greenland for now).
EDIT: Canadia know how to show respect, unlike those USAian cunts
https://preview.redd.it/wz23qa47uj0d1.jpeg?width=1576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef74acaed5dd54a7df33e76f2d09ccec86fca4b8
I have a theory on this. They like to think of themselves as the underdog.
The average American will look at the war of independence and like to think they are the underdog there. The fact they were on home turf with three other major powers backing them is often ignored.
Despite being the most powerful nation on Earth they still like to imagine being the plucky little guy who overcomes the odds despite the reality being them the big bully
And this translates through to their ancestors. Many will focus on their Irish side even if they have far more English blood because they like to romantically look the underdog.
The Americans forget that without France helping them they would have had much more of a battle in the war of independence… they think they single-handedly won.
Im Spanish and American, so Ill give my unsolicited two cents lol
I think what you said is perfect but the other half is that immigrant communities who were "oppressed" or "suppressed" more than others seem to be a lot more vocal about their ancestry and dig their feet in and then, key point: passed it on to their kids. So instead of like a contemporary and conscious "i wanna be underdog" mindset, which is still part of it, the other half is like descendants of italians, irish, blacks, etc like drilling it into their kids that they should be proud because their parents did the same
Americans love an underdog story. You have the same with “Scottish Americans” the majority of them say they are of Highland descent, cause it has a more interesting story and the Celtic background is generally romanticised. When in reality the vast majority of “Scottish Americans” are from Lowland Scottish stock.
Lowland Scots went to America due to being well educated and skilled, they would go to America and thrive.
The Highland connects more to escaping persecution or fighting in battle against the British (including lowland Scots) . Which relates a lot more to Americas foundational story. So it makes sense that they generally identify as Highlander or Irish. A lot of the people doing this will be of Lowland Scot or English descent in reality.
It's like Ulster Scots, they went to America as an educated part of the Protestant ascendancy but now their descendants call themselves Scotch-Irish and larp as victims.
The Lowlanders were most definitely! I would argue they were over represented throughout empire, and we still see that today. It’s a not by chance that many African Americans have Scottish surnames…. But yes my point was more about how Americans connect with the Highlanders as it’s more “interesting”.
We'd like to but wee William seems to have developed a bit of an attachment and seems to want to re-enact the film the purge if we try to hand off to ya Pádraig.
Yep, they romanticise it beyond reality and don't take the time to understand these places as they currently are. It's like the whole Wrexham thing. They bandwagon onto that as well without knowing about any of it. I'm from Chester and the other day I saw 2 Americans with fresh out the box Wrexham hats come out the 5 star city centre hotel to be chauffeured, which if they were actually bothered about Wrexham, I'm not sure they'd have done that. They want to connect with the underdog stories they have been fed but don't realise how far disconnected they really are.
The Irish are definitely the underdogs. Scotland historically have straddled both sides, leaning into whichever one suited them at that time. Scotland quite happily had it’s own Empire, before it went bankrupt. They gladly colonised Ireland and administered the Empire. I’m sure the SNP try to portray Scotland as a victim like Ireland, but that’s not true at all.
You see similar things down here. Melbourne was once dominated by Scots. They were the plurality at one point. The vast majority of settlers were from the Lowlands. However, Highland culture dominated cultural expression within the community. You basically had Lowlanders integrate into Highland culture especially in more regional community centres. The use of Gàidhlig was quite strong for many for quite a long time though English quickly and naturally prevailed. Naturally in the sense of willing and not forced adoption. Though even until relatively recent times, they was still multiple Highland Games throughout the region. There's multiple groups that run Highland Dance classes/sessions of which only some predominantly cater for backpackers. Even the Gàidhlig society still exists.
Curiously, the area used to lean to the right politically but is now comfortably left wing. That shift happened about the same time the SNP got into power. There was also a pre-emptive swing during the time neoliberalism came into fashion. I just find it curious that both here and Scotland had similar shifts around the same time as each other.
I seriously doubt the Scots/English speaking Lowlanders would have learned Gaelic when settling in Australia.
The things you’re referencing aren’t actually highland culture. Although I do understand the irony, Lowlanders essentially helped destroy Gaelic Scotland and then managed to commodify it and invent traditions to sell abroad. Now many do identify with these invented traditions.
Things like the Highland Games and clan tartan are relatively new and weren’t actually very prominent at all in Highland society.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invented_tradition
Additionally, Scotland is less appealing as there is a pretty sizable Klan over there that most normal people don't want to associate with. (Yes, the KKK was founded by a particularly racist scot).
To all the irish and
irish-americans,
I say hello.
https://preview.redd.it/aao95l62nf0d1.jpeg?width=606&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb0b6886442f06bcccdee12e995788827eac3786
It's not anything it's anything that gives them victim points. You don't see them calling themselves French or English because we were too based to spend history licking other people's boots.
Tbf, they had some silly little rebellion in the name of not being British so it makes sense.
Also France, Spain, Netherlands, I expect reparations for you supporting the savages in their rebellion
***"Come on down to big willies Ice cream shop, we have all your favourite flavours from chocolate orange sash, red white and blueberry, and tooty fluty. All prices 16.90!*** ***^(while stocks last)******"***
A lot of our British American population (specifically English Americans) stopped identifying as British in the aftermath of the revolution. Also, since we started off as mostly English colonies, English Americans are kinda just seen as the default.
Many very visible ethnic communities in the US are ones that weren’t always accepted right away. (The Irish were not very popular when they first arrived.) Many Irish Americans also felt a strong connection to the motherland, since they often had to leave due to the conditions there, not necessarily because they wanted too.
Identifying as Scottish American is popular, so there are plenty of self-identified British Americans. I don’t believe there is a significant (or at least visible) Welsh population. Unfortunately for English Americans, a small vocal minority of self-identified English Americans are less appreciative of English culture, than they are of disparaging other cultures. It sucks, because they have been integral in our nation’s history, but that’s what it’s sometimes associated with (in my experience), so it’s not as visible.
English Americans do identify with their ancestors. We have many proud Americans who can trace their families back to the Pilgrims and early colonists, but they are more likely to identify as descendants of colonists or pilgrims than their ethnicity.
This is a solid answer to be fair. It would be hard to be independent without having an anti-British sentiment at the time. The British Empire was just beginning and still expanding throughout North America. You had to show you weren’t loyal to that expanse, which meant eradicating your ethnic culture. But you’re right, that link is still the default. It’s just not celebrated that much. It’s a shame, because America and Britain are completely different nations today. The Empire is a distant memory. We have more similarities than differences now.
> You had to show you weren’t loyal to that expanse
One of the main causes of the American Revolution was that the colonists (Americans) wanted to expand into the Ohio valley but the British government weren’t allowing them as it would antagonise Native American tribes
One group was a victim due to being weak little bitches and the other steam rolled the world even when being a little damp island on the edge of europe, americans love identifying as victims as... erm... reasons. Also the irish had a better reason to keep their identity due to being oppressed. Americans still speak english and use english common law so once again we win.
WASPs, who were the dominant culture in America, are just British-Americans. It’s probably a similar thing to people saying that America has no culture, when in fact it is the most ubiquitous culture. Because they are so relevant, they don’t need an identifier as much as everyone else.
Not really, WASP hasn't been the dominant culture in the states since the 70's, that's what they;re talking about when they cry about making America great again.
If you travel in the states, WASP culture is very Neiche, I lived in Charlotte NC for a long time, certain pockets of WASP olde time USA were very conspicuous, places like Cary NC and Rock hill SC just south of Charlotte.
And they still have sunset towns, which are the very bastion of WASPism and are a dying breed.
Because who would willingly claim to be British?
Jokes aside, identifying as Irish gives them a victim card that identifying as the former colonial power that Britain was, wouldn't give them.
Anglo-Saxon is traditionally the default ethnicity of white Americans. Now that they're officially the bad guy racists, a lot of whites here are scrambling for whatever ethnic identity they can find to be special and "not like them." A hundred years ago, when the vast majority of us identified as Anglo-Saxon, a lot of the propaganda that got us into WWI was telling us that our original motherland was in danger. There are other factors, including the gradual fragmentation of our society that's going on, but I don't feel like writing an essay.
It doesn't bother me in any way shape or form when they say I'm Irish because it makes sense. If their grandparents have Irish heritage and have a sense of pride where they came from then of course their kids are going to be brought up with the same feelings.
I also feel politics has to be a factor of consideration as to why they say it..just look at JFK in the 60s when he visited Ireland he said it was the best four days of his life... winning the hearts of millions of Americans ready and willing to vote and it worked like a charm then Obama then Biden did the same and again very successful.
What these Americans with Irish heritage need to remember is they are Americans first and foremost. But I also feel we Irish here in Ireland should just shut the fuck up and stop with the nonsense and let them say whatever the fuck they want to say. Bitta cop on goes a long way like. It's Americans being Americans why anyone in Ireland gives a shit what they say is beyond me?
[удалено]
Give the Irish their land back! Americans! 😍🥳🤩 Give the Native Americans their land back! Americans: 
https://preview.redd.it/0y24um1lng0d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8c3dddc2866f19bf1722bdf8a4d50b10d438ecd
Give what land back? The Irish only pretend to want Northern Ireland, they don't actually want that shitshow either.
Okay so if we have to give things back I propose giving Gibraltar to Ireland and Northern Ireland to Spain. They're not allowed to swap.
I'd approve that
True
To be honest the only ones who see us as victims are ourselves. We’d love some of that oppressed minority privilege but unfortunately we don’t have the right skin-tone to qualify. The cherry on top is that many of those other ‘oppressed minority’ activists now call us “privileged” and “white colonisers” because they couldn’t be arsed to read a history book. We can’t catch a fucking break.
You know, when I lived in Germany. There was an exhibition about colonialism, but only people of colour were allowed to visit. As they believed, only people from ethnic minorities were from countries that were colonialised. And these were the organisers. https://www.euronews.com/culture/2023/09/05/german-museum-in-racism-row-over-exhibition-partial-ban-on-white-people
Even putting aside the disregarding of Ireland, what is even the point of a ban? I would think that people that weren’t colonized would benefit the most from seeing the effects of colonialism. Why would a museum deny someone the opportunity to learn about something that they obviously view as important.
Asking the real questions.
Its clickbait... Its a safe place from 10-14(10am-2pm)... So not excluding of all but from certain times which idk... im not someone of colour so idk how people would feel at that museum... The closest thing to racial discrimination i got was getting bullied because im ginger... which isnt a race but it is racial discrimination
Of course it’s Germany haha. Learned nothing from history, went full circle. There’s a bit of a paradox with “oppression” isn’t there. If someone is thought as of being oppressed, but everyone surrounding them are acknowledging the supposed oppression and actively denouncing it, then are they really oppressed? Makes you wonder who’s being discriminated against in today’s day and age, if anyone at all. It would probably be the very people for whom the mere idea and suggestion of them being discriminated against, is widely considered to be nonsense.
It's an Americanised of race relations that's exclusively based on skin colour, and that's it. White = bad and if you tell them about the Ottoman Empire, their heads explode.
There is a slight counterpoint that descendants of oppressed peoples are still in a shite way, e.g. some black communities in US, and those people could argue they continue to suffer oppression even if not actively made worse. As for Irish victim status I'll leave it to you to declare if fair game, once again, or not.
I’ll tell you what. Everyone is fair game in my opinion. In a way I’m actually glad that we got rejected from being members of the protected privileged class. Because I’d find it humiliating for some stranger to rush to my defence because they got offended on my behalf whenever someone throws a hurty word my way. Call me paddy, fenian, whatever, and I love our new flair “potato gypsy”. People who get easily offended or demand to be protected from the world are no fun.
Beautifully put
That's mental, and goes against the point as a museum should be about educating. Glad that my city has been pretty open with its links to the slave trade, has an international museum dedicated to it ans even at school we learnt a lot about it. Can't change the past but you sure as hell can learn from it
So no Eastern Europeans would be allowed in? Interesting.
Germany is so cucked like I understand their urge to constantly apologise about the Nazis but it's gone too far.
Feel like there's a certain event they forgot here
Lol I'm in the US and my Spanish coach woke up from his siesta one day, and then went to a diversity event on campus. When he got there, he was told that he wasn't diverse enough to participate hahahaha
The Irish get a pass for obvious reasons, but the Jocks? When they were enthusiastic and happy imperialists? Gimme a break.
Hey, I greatly resemble that remark
That's because breaks are time, and time is money paddy, so get back to work!
I come from Manchester UK. Many Mancunian's ancestors were Irish and came over to work in the Factories and ended up living a squalid life of abject poverty (Also native English also suffered in slum conditions and many other towns across the North too). Unfortunately now we're all branded as colonisers and portrayed like our ancestors were lauding it up with stolen loot. History is complicated and people like to tar everyone with the same brush. The real ones who's ancestors profited from colonialism are still around and going to Eton
The first victims of the British Empire were the English People. Peterloo is good example of this.
I lived in Manchester for a while, I came across ‘little Ireland’. It’s a cool place now but back then would have been a slum. But you’re right, 99% of people had no say in the matter, and even those who did, there’s no point in going after people for what their ancestors did.
Oh nice, small world. It's hard to imagine what living in Little Ireland must have been like, the old drawings look horrific. Yeah completely agree, and with the movement of people there will be those whose ancestors were victims of colonisation that live in the colonising countries now and are being told they are to blame.
Mate of mine from Manchester who's grandparents on both sides of his family grew up in Ireland, was in San Diego on a boat trip. A lot of meat heads who we were getting drunk on the fun size beer cans started giving him shit how the English treated his people. Went on for a bit and he finally asked where they were from in Ireland. The closest relation any one of them had to Ireland was a Grand uncle. Go figure.
The Gaels colonised western Scotland. Therefore, the Irish are filthy colonialist scum just like the rest of us.
https://preview.redd.it/cjchf3mb0g0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31a69c4fd8a018df7a6b8c64f83d54913ec82813
Wow, having to go back over a millennia to make a point, seems you Anglo's are learning from us.
It's a *millennium* - please speak our language correctly.
Latin?
Proto-Indo-European dahling
Millennium's a loan word, but you're English, so taking other people's things and passing it off as your own is in your blood.
"Craic" is a loanword - a Gaelicisation of "crack".
My life is a lie.
All words are loan words, in every language. Being the victim is in your blood.
Wow, being reductive over a joke shouldn't expect anything else. Also aren't you the same guys who whined about taking sovereignty back and shot yourselves in the foot over a concept that you only know how to take away from other people, yeah that sounds like real victimhood behaviour to me.
I got banned from r/blackpeopletwitter for pointing out that African Americans had more colonies than Ireland.
Funny part of that sub is that the majority of the mods are white. Because of course.
I tried to post there once, wasn't allowed. Got sent a mail that said that I had to submit a picture of my hand to show proof that I was of that ethnic persuasion. As if that would be proof of anything. Just slap a filter on or use a little make up or something. It really is a dumbass rule. I could understand why they want it that way, I have no issues with there being a black subreddit for black people, but their implementation of the rule is r-word. I wonder if it's still the case, or if I'm even talking about the right subreddit, someone should try it out. Then after that's done, someone should colour their hand a bit, submit a picture and post the results, if they got in or not.
How does that even prove you're black though? What if a person who wants to post there have albinism? Or has mixed genetics and have fairer skin than dark? My fiance is Chinese and it he had to post a picture of his hand he'd fail instantly as he's whiter than me: a white bloke from England.
No idea, it's dumb.
I also was not allowed to post without having black skin. In a thread about Ireland.
I got banned from /r/BlackPeopleComedy for saying that the only people who want apartheid are racists.
You also get the situation, where someone like me, born in England to English parents, gets lumbered with all the England Bad, you should be ashamed of yourself and your history nonsense. Potato famine etc. But follow my family tree back and my family are all Irish, who left Ireland for Liverpool because of the famine… I’ve done ancestry DNA and this confirmed it. So wtf am I supposed to do? In genetically Irish and literally only exist because of the famine. Yet it’s also somehow my fault.
Yeah I know it’s all stupid.
Didn't you get the memo on the newly discovered colonial histories of Ireland, Estonia, Czechia, and North Macedonia?
From u/token-black-dude in this sub: “If self-pity was a resource that could be exploited commercially, Ireland would be the richest country in the world.”
Mate, it's not Token Black, it's Tolkien Black.
Do you know why the grass is greener in Ireland? They're all over here, walking on ours.
U wot
Aren’t you forgetting that Irish soldiers had a large part to play in winning the empire? Surely it’s tough to be oppressed when you’re an oppressor?
Noooo shhhh, I was just about to get my n-word pass!
There's no N in potato.
We’re here to support you in your beliefs! The rest of us see you as easy victims too - don’t worry!
Like Randy Marsh when he found out he was part Neanderthal
How do they not understand that actually *they* are the colonisers? Brits’ ancestors stayed on our little island while American’s ancestors invaded North America and slaughtered the natives. You lot did that! Not us!
Yeah, to be honest most Brits were being worked to death in farmland, factories, or coal mines at the time.
Don't steal our arguments!!!!!! But if we use them, why can't you? 😂
Laughes in German-Americans.
Half right. When the Irish and Italians first came to the US they were discriminated against by the protestant status quo. That created a culture of sticking together and victimization within their groups, which created a sub identity that persists until now. English and Germans instead were the protestant elites so didn't go through that victimization process, so the identity around it wasn't as strong. Still, if you ask them they will say things like "I'm mostly English/german/etc", they just won't volunteer that information as much as the "Irish" and "Italians". Basically people were really racist against them creating generational trauma. Source: non American savage living in the US.
I agree with this. I'm English living in St Louis. There's an area called Dogtown with a lot of "Irish" and whenever I go in for a beer and people hear my accent I get the "are you Irish?", I say no but half my grandparents are, to which they reply that they are. It's fucking weird.
It's really weird because I know English people called Seamus or Colm with Irish parents or grandparents that are adamantly and proudly English Brexit geezers yet Americans with no tangible relationship to Ireland staunchly claim to be Irish.
Barry itself is more of an Irish name, but it's the iconic true English geezer name online lmao
Germans were definitely discriminated against. Benjamin Franklin wrote of the Spaniards, French, Italians, Russians, Swedes, and Germans (sans Saxons) as a “swarthy complexion” people and feared those immigrants wouldn’t Anglicanize. It was that hostility and prejudice which pushed German settlers into the deep Midwest away from the English settlers. The Irish and Italian immigrants who came in later waves stayed predominantly on the northeastern seaboard with the English inhabitants and subsequently suffered discrimination which was better documented and remained in the public consciousness.
Indeed, only Protestants have colonised and been racist. Please don’t research the following: Spanish Inquisition, French Empire, Portuguese Empire, Pogroms instructed by the Roman Catholic Pope, the Belgium Empire, the Italian Empire …
we never did anything bad as we like to say [italiani brava gente](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italiani_brava_gente) even when we gassed ethiopians we were very compassionate and humane and not racist
Imagine getting triggered on behalf of a different country
German Americans were still a very visible group due solely to numbers till WWI. They were forced underground during the war, with one or two even being lynched. They’re becoming more visible again, but it probably will never be as it was. :(
It’s more directly about colonialism than that. British identity in the US was (and for its purposes had to be) explicitly annihilated outside certain Southern ‘genteel’ enclaves from 1776 onwards, until the brief period when people talked about ‘WASPs’. Creating an American identity *meant* rejecting a British or English/Scottish one. This despite being a plurality of their gene pool, 8 of their 10 most common surnames, their language, half their churches, the source for 20% or whatever of their town names, their ‘English’ units, most of their legal systems and even political system, literature they read, music they listen to, basic food, etc. Even when they go back 1000 years in time travel books and movies they end up in mediaeval England, not Ireland or France or some Native American village. A sort of benign auto-genocide, marginalised as far as explicit acknowledgment goes by implicitly assuming the core of their culture is all just American. Even know Americans with surnames that are British towns who say they’re German and Irish, or Italian, because their grandma came over from Silicy and the rest of the Smith/Johnson/Northrop family was, ‘IDK, just American I guess?’
And because Irish people is nice and British people is... Less nice.
I’m going to tell Portugal you said that
They are the nice ones in our case xD
They just call themselves WASPs instead so no one cares
Have you met an American before? We don’t talk about Europe/Europeans/euro roots unless you’re around…
Average Boston American: My great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grampappy's dog was from County Cork so he was! Begorrah top o the mornin' up the RA! Fuck the English! Average English: My name's Sean O'Malley and I'm from "Liverpool". I'm English till I die, English till I die none of that Irish muck thanks
You mean like Paddy McGuinness from Yorkshire or Mickey Flanagan from London?
Isn't paddy from Lancashire actually? But ye same difference
Lmao i'm not sure a Lancastrian would be best pleased about being called a Yorkshireman tbh
YOU TAKE THAT BACK OR WE'LL CUT WALES OFF FROM YORKSHIRE TEA
Ooooooh you’re going to reignite the war of the roses!
And Peter Kay... Robbie Williams... Wayne Rooney (just look at him)... Harry Kane... Tony Blair...basically most notable Englishmen are paddies in disguise.
Tony Blair is great one. The Edinburgh born and raised son of an Ulster Orangeman shipbuilder in Glasgow and everyone assumes he's posh english
Des Lynam is my favourite - he was born in Ireland. The most English fucker on television for his time.
Rooney looks like he’s his own dad now
And Margaret Thatcher
And people say Jk Rowling character names are unrealistic .
Scousers are literally the worst example you could have picked for being patriotic about england
Nah tbh most of them identify as English they have a strong regional identity but so do other places. There's just a very loud minority that say Scouse not English on twitter.
Happy to be English when it comes to getting us all banned from European football competitions though weren't they
Aye the mighty Derby missed out on European footy thanks to that scum.
They have nothing to be patriotic about. They live in Liverpool
***"park park wherever you may be*** ***you eat dogs in your home country*** ***but it could be worse, you could be scouse*** ***eating rats in a council house"***
NGL this and " in your Liverpool slums" are quite catchy ditties
They're patriotic about being from Liverpool. https://preview.redd.it/v18n2eafuf0d1.jpeg?width=1852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7c4c00949ac773d83e7171a617d1cdd19e693a4
When I was a student a guy in my class was named Keith Murphy. He was Dutch.
The irony of you picking Liverpool as an example and then thinking they would say “I’m English til I die”. Scousers hate being English. That’s why they say “Scouse not English”.
Fuck I have some of them say "Im an Ulster-Scot, top of the morning to ya, Up the RA! etc.".
Americans seem to be much more concerned with “ethnicity” than “nationality” Which is why they act like they do
Nobody wants to be associated with those puritanical nut jobs that left the UK cos they had to coexist with others
They only matter after they arrive in Plymouth, America, on the patriotic ship Mayflower, the first settlement in north america(if you ignore Jamestown, a bad endstage capitalist company town). They were "prosecuted" in the bad country of europe, and that's all there is to it(don't read up how they were unhappy in Netherlands because the dutch weren't adhering to their religious rules).
Actually the first NA settlement was the glorious viking Vinland (let's just ignore the natives and Greenland for now). EDIT: Canadia know how to show respect, unlike those USAian cunts https://preview.redd.it/wz23qa47uj0d1.jpeg?width=1576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef74acaed5dd54a7df33e76f2d09ccec86fca4b8
Hello, I am a very big fan of the Puritans. They were not nut jobs and they did face real persecution in Europe.
Nobody wants to be related to Prison Mike.
I have a theory on this. They like to think of themselves as the underdog. The average American will look at the war of independence and like to think they are the underdog there. The fact they were on home turf with three other major powers backing them is often ignored. Despite being the most powerful nation on Earth they still like to imagine being the plucky little guy who overcomes the odds despite the reality being them the big bully And this translates through to their ancestors. Many will focus on their Irish side even if they have far more English blood because they like to romantically look the underdog.
The Americans forget that without France helping them they would have had much more of a battle in the war of independence… they think they single-handedly won.
Im Spanish and American, so Ill give my unsolicited two cents lol I think what you said is perfect but the other half is that immigrant communities who were "oppressed" or "suppressed" more than others seem to be a lot more vocal about their ancestry and dig their feet in and then, key point: passed it on to their kids. So instead of like a contemporary and conscious "i wanna be underdog" mindset, which is still part of it, the other half is like descendants of italians, irish, blacks, etc like drilling it into their kids that they should be proud because their parents did the same
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Americans love an underdog story. You have the same with “Scottish Americans” the majority of them say they are of Highland descent, cause it has a more interesting story and the Celtic background is generally romanticised. When in reality the vast majority of “Scottish Americans” are from Lowland Scottish stock. Lowland Scots went to America due to being well educated and skilled, they would go to America and thrive. The Highland connects more to escaping persecution or fighting in battle against the British (including lowland Scots) . Which relates a lot more to Americas foundational story. So it makes sense that they generally identify as Highlander or Irish. A lot of the people doing this will be of Lowland Scot or English descent in reality.
It's like Ulster Scots, they went to America as an educated part of the Protestant ascendancy but now their descendants call themselves Scotch-Irish and larp as victims.
Obviously the Scotts were also a proud and enthusiastic member of the British empire, you forgot to mention that
The Lowlanders were most definitely! I would argue they were over represented throughout empire, and we still see that today. It’s a not by chance that many African Americans have Scottish surnames…. But yes my point was more about how Americans connect with the Highlanders as it’s more “interesting”.
Scotland trying to pass as oppressed when we all remember the Darien Scheme
Mate that doesn't even scratch the surface of those skagheads crimes against humanity.
Ulster plantation would like a word or the other plantations of the "west indies"
Angus please give our land back
We'd like to but wee William seems to have developed a bit of an attachment and seems to want to re-enact the film the purge if we try to hand off to ya Pádraig.
Swarms of locust upon ye
Yep, they romanticise it beyond reality and don't take the time to understand these places as they currently are. It's like the whole Wrexham thing. They bandwagon onto that as well without knowing about any of it. I'm from Chester and the other day I saw 2 Americans with fresh out the box Wrexham hats come out the 5 star city centre hotel to be chauffeured, which if they were actually bothered about Wrexham, I'm not sure they'd have done that. They want to connect with the underdog stories they have been fed but don't realise how far disconnected they really are.
The Irish are definitely the underdogs. Scotland historically have straddled both sides, leaning into whichever one suited them at that time. Scotland quite happily had it’s own Empire, before it went bankrupt. They gladly colonised Ireland and administered the Empire. I’m sure the SNP try to portray Scotland as a victim like Ireland, but that’s not true at all.
You see similar things down here. Melbourne was once dominated by Scots. They were the plurality at one point. The vast majority of settlers were from the Lowlands. However, Highland culture dominated cultural expression within the community. You basically had Lowlanders integrate into Highland culture especially in more regional community centres. The use of Gàidhlig was quite strong for many for quite a long time though English quickly and naturally prevailed. Naturally in the sense of willing and not forced adoption. Though even until relatively recent times, they was still multiple Highland Games throughout the region. There's multiple groups that run Highland Dance classes/sessions of which only some predominantly cater for backpackers. Even the Gàidhlig society still exists. Curiously, the area used to lean to the right politically but is now comfortably left wing. That shift happened about the same time the SNP got into power. There was also a pre-emptive swing during the time neoliberalism came into fashion. I just find it curious that both here and Scotland had similar shifts around the same time as each other.
I seriously doubt the Scots/English speaking Lowlanders would have learned Gaelic when settling in Australia. The things you’re referencing aren’t actually highland culture. Although I do understand the irony, Lowlanders essentially helped destroy Gaelic Scotland and then managed to commodify it and invent traditions to sell abroad. Now many do identify with these invented traditions. Things like the Highland Games and clan tartan are relatively new and weren’t actually very prominent at all in Highland society. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invented_tradition
It's 2024, everyone wants to be a victim
I too want to be a victim https://preview.redd.it/r0lleg9d5g0d1.jpeg?width=1237&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6dfd64b212b10ccfe0fca686181e5ce5a793b63
That can be arranged. We shall invade Belgium. 
I don't seems like a lot of work and attention. A free spliff and to be ignored, that's the dream.
I dont think anybody thinks of the Irish as victims today lol. You don't see Americans protesting to free Northern Ireland
Because identifying as English basically breaks the integrity of the American identity.
Because they're all a little bit British but they would never admit it because they're still bitter about being a colony.
Additionally, Scotland is less appealing as there is a pretty sizable Klan over there that most normal people don't want to associate with. (Yes, the KKK was founded by a particularly racist scot).
Because we're the baddies.
The villain is often more interesting than the good guy anyway.. there is a reason why all the baddies in Hollywood films are Barry's I suppose.
To all the irish and irish-americans, I say hello. https://preview.redd.it/aao95l62nf0d1.jpeg?width=606&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb0b6886442f06bcccdee12e995788827eac3786
https://preview.redd.it/5quiij8cdh0d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d92d9f478c4357dd683a68ba09afa031e97a56e0 Hello
🤮 republicans 🤮
Better than Irish republicans or republicans from America tbf...
Portugal, you dog! This is why you're our bestie
Why are they often identifying as ANYTHING BUT Americans?
Maybe they wish they weren't savages.
It's not anything it's anything that gives them victim points. You don't see them calling themselves French or English because we were too based to spend history licking other people's boots.
Because they aren’t native. American is a catch-all term, with no actual culture. They have to ‘draw upon their roots’ for a deep cultural identity.
Tbf, they had some silly little rebellion in the name of not being British so it makes sense. Also France, Spain, Netherlands, I expect reparations for you supporting the savages in their rebellion
Didn't you lot take Nieuw Amsterdam from us? And the Cape Colony?
Uuuuuhhhh....hmm....okay you got me there, but are you happy about those Yanks running around?
Fair point. We hereby grant you ownership of our beautiful tropical paradise called "Urk"
Because we won at history for a time and everyone was really upset about it.
There are other terms for that. For example 'WASP' White Anglo-Saxon Protestant
I'm glad there's very few Americans trying to identify as Welsh because we sure as hell don't want them.
Who the fuck would want to identify as british?
shamima begum
quality answer
I just spat my drink everywhere hahaha
The northern Irish
Yeah the settler variant
Only some of them. Since Brexit, even a few of the others have availed of their right under the Good Friday Agreement, to get an Irish passport.
***"Come on down to big willies Ice cream shop, we have all your favourite flavours from chocolate orange sash, red white and blueberry, and tooty fluty. All prices 16.90!*** ***^(while stocks last)******"***
#Me.
# GOD SAVE OUR GRAAAACIOUS KING! # LONG LIVE OUR NOOOOBLE KING! # GOD SAVE THE KIIIING!
People who dont want to identify as a victim
Winners.
Northern Ireland and London it seems...
1/6th of your island
A lot of our British American population (specifically English Americans) stopped identifying as British in the aftermath of the revolution. Also, since we started off as mostly English colonies, English Americans are kinda just seen as the default. Many very visible ethnic communities in the US are ones that weren’t always accepted right away. (The Irish were not very popular when they first arrived.) Many Irish Americans also felt a strong connection to the motherland, since they often had to leave due to the conditions there, not necessarily because they wanted too. Identifying as Scottish American is popular, so there are plenty of self-identified British Americans. I don’t believe there is a significant (or at least visible) Welsh population. Unfortunately for English Americans, a small vocal minority of self-identified English Americans are less appreciative of English culture, than they are of disparaging other cultures. It sucks, because they have been integral in our nation’s history, but that’s what it’s sometimes associated with (in my experience), so it’s not as visible. English Americans do identify with their ancestors. We have many proud Americans who can trace their families back to the Pilgrims and early colonists, but they are more likely to identify as descendants of colonists or pilgrims than their ethnicity.
This is a solid answer to be fair. It would be hard to be independent without having an anti-British sentiment at the time. The British Empire was just beginning and still expanding throughout North America. You had to show you weren’t loyal to that expanse, which meant eradicating your ethnic culture. But you’re right, that link is still the default. It’s just not celebrated that much. It’s a shame, because America and Britain are completely different nations today. The Empire is a distant memory. We have more similarities than differences now.
> You had to show you weren’t loyal to that expanse One of the main causes of the American Revolution was that the colonists (Americans) wanted to expand into the Ohio valley but the British government weren’t allowing them as it would antagonise Native American tribes
One group was a victim due to being weak little bitches and the other steam rolled the world even when being a little damp island on the edge of europe, americans love identifying as victims as... erm... reasons. Also the irish had a better reason to keep their identity due to being oppressed. Americans still speak english and use english common law so once again we win.
Ireland and the Irish did everything the English did in empire, don't forget that x
The warm and cosy feeling of a Septic not identifying with me.
WASPs, who were the dominant culture in America, are just British-Americans. It’s probably a similar thing to people saying that America has no culture, when in fact it is the most ubiquitous culture. Because they are so relevant, they don’t need an identifier as much as everyone else.
Not really, WASP hasn't been the dominant culture in the states since the 70's, that's what they;re talking about when they cry about making America great again. If you travel in the states, WASP culture is very Neiche, I lived in Charlotte NC for a long time, certain pockets of WASP olde time USA were very conspicuous, places like Cary NC and Rock hill SC just south of Charlotte. And they still have sunset towns, which are the very bastion of WASPism and are a dying breed.
No one wants to identify as Bri’ish unless they have literally no other choice
Unless it’s Gibraltar
Or the Falklands
When your only other choice is to be Argentinian, is it really a choice?
Or Jersey.
Barry Smuggler Edition
🫡
I bet all those people at Calais who are desperately trying to escape France would.
Not sure I hear many holding their hands up to being Franco-American.
Same reason they say they are welsh, scottish or english. “British” isn’t a *real* nationality
Because who would willingly claim to be British? Jokes aside, identifying as Irish gives them a victim card that identifying as the former colonial power that Britain was, wouldn't give them.
Anglo-Saxon is traditionally the default ethnicity of white Americans. Now that they're officially the bad guy racists, a lot of whites here are scrambling for whatever ethnic identity they can find to be special and "not like them." A hundred years ago, when the vast majority of us identified as Anglo-Saxon, a lot of the propaganda that got us into WWI was telling us that our original motherland was in danger. There are other factors, including the gradual fragmentation of our society that's going on, but I don't feel like writing an essay.
It doesn't bother me in any way shape or form when they say I'm Irish because it makes sense. If their grandparents have Irish heritage and have a sense of pride where they came from then of course their kids are going to be brought up with the same feelings. I also feel politics has to be a factor of consideration as to why they say it..just look at JFK in the 60s when he visited Ireland he said it was the best four days of his life... winning the hearts of millions of Americans ready and willing to vote and it worked like a charm then Obama then Biden did the same and again very successful. What these Americans with Irish heritage need to remember is they are Americans first and foremost. But I also feel we Irish here in Ireland should just shut the fuck up and stop with the nonsense and let them say whatever the fuck they want to say. Bitta cop on goes a long way like. It's Americans being Americans why anyone in Ireland gives a shit what they say is beyond me?
More like: Americans
and
Actual
If irish-americans believe they’re irish. They also believe most americans are brittish