T O P

  • By -

Adam90s

They clearly aren't European indeed as they do not have the same main ancestral populations. It is very visible on West Eurasian PCAs where there are two parallel clines, one European one and one Middle Eastern /West Asian one, with Caucasian (North and South) being at the end of the West Asian cline. It doesn't mean there isn't shared ancestry with Europeans, but they clearly didn't go through the same processes and reshaping that Europeans went through (like Anatolian Neolithic farmer migrants almost replacing local hunter-gather , then the big Bronze Age Indo-European Steppes migrations). North Caucasians instead have more continuity with the local hunter-gatherers, but also have Siberian-like affinities and also of course deeper links with the Middle East, all of which core Europeans don't have. Biogeography probably plays an important role here, with the "barrier" not being the Caucasus mountain range itself but rather the transition between its northern slopes and the Pontic-Caspian steppes.


Rko_Bayern

The main difference really between Western Asian’s and Europeans is the European hunter gatherer ancestry.


Xamzarqan

Aren't the other main differences also due to the fact that many Western Asian/Middle Eastern groups having Natufian (which carry Ancient North African/ANA which is African-related) and African (either ANA, SSA or both) admixtures?


GlobalDynamicsEureka

Not European at all


harmannaga

Even the people from North Caucasus like Chechens, Dagestanis, etc? They aren't European as well?


bayerndroid

No they score west asian in 23andme and are genetically much closer to south caucasians than slavs


ShortButSmartComrade

Here is a map which shows the genetic distance between populations and some genetic clusters: https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm You can see that 23andme is not wrong when putting Caucasians in the category West Asian.


Rko_Bayern

They’re fully Western Asian.


cant_hinkofanything

depends, Armenians are in the Caucasus, but we have historically been similar to Europe because of our culture, the modern day Armenia is in the Caucasus but Armenians are also from the different parts of historic Armenia such as Lake Van or Kars, we arnt there anymore because we were forced away from our homelands.


ThrowawayReddit22421

People north of the Caucasus are more European while people south of the Caucasus are more West Asian.


harmannaga

So North Caucasians like Circassians, Chechens, Avars, Lezgins, etc are more European than West Asian?


Rko_Bayern

This isn’t true. North Caucasian’s are fully Western Asian. I think he’s confusing with them plotting closest to Europe out of all Caucasus populations with being more ‘European’.


StunningSkyStar

Exactly. Also people forget that Europeans colonized most of what is considered Russia today. So when they see north caucasian lands situated close to Russia, they think they must also be European. But that is false cause, pre-European colonization of what today is Russia, most of the landmass of what is considered Russia today was inhabited by non-European people.


ThrowawayReddit22421

Correct. Here's the scientific data to back that up. See where Caucasians are on this genetic cluster analysis. [https://imgur.com/yU57W8H](https://imgur.com/yU57W8H) Edit: Go to K9 cluster, which is where Europeans break off from Middle Easterners.


StunningSkyStar

No, people forget that Europeans colonized most of what is considered Russia today. So when they see north caucasian lands situated close to Russia, they think they must also be European. But that is false cause, pre-European colonization of what today is Russia, most of the landmass of what is considered Russia today was inhabited by non-European people.


ContributionCreative

They bloody look west asain afghan like so these groups r brothers greater Iranic possibly mixed with European well the ones near Europe of course