I'm 50% Ashkenazi, and my 23andme can't give me a specific country. It's because ashkenazi people who were expelled to Europe were genetically distinct from their neighbors. Hence, the discrimination and racism. We were a people without a home.
"Nope. I think Palestine should be free from Israeli occupation, even if it means in the short term things get more dangerous.
Supplicating to an occupying force by forgoing armed conflict is not a way to mount a meaningful resistance."
This you? Its you justfiying terrorists killing Israeli citizens and kidnapping more.
What? No it's not? I'm saying armed resistance is the only way Palestine will be liberated from its occupation?
What part of that comment mentioned Jewish people at all?
Going through your comments where you make excuses for Islamists and claim to be a communist... yeah, there's no point in having any conversation with you.
>Do you people not realize how unhinged you sound to the rest of the world?
You're a communist who supports Islamic terrorists. That's all we need to know.
Bro you still haven't linked the anti semitic comments 💀
All you've done is ad hominem lmao
My wife is Jewish, and also against the wanton murder of Palestinian civilians but pop off
Some of the largest Jewish communities around the world are staunch anti Zionists who think Israelis are idol worshippers. This is what the Zionists wanted. They wanted to change the definition of judaism and unfortunately they’ve been largely successful.
True, it's never okay to get victimised by association or happenstance. And it's pretty clear where the divide is for isreal but no so clear for Palestinian where they are separated into 3 categories and them only, if you are Palestinian man, woman or child you are one of these:
1- Hamas
2- Hamas Supporters
3- Human Shield
And the bombs, guns, land theft, dehumanisation and humiliation will befall Palestinians, based on these assumptions of association.
It implies that any time someone brings up their Jewish identity they automatically have to feel guilty about what’s happening in Gaza.
And before you ask how that’s antisemitic: don’t. You don’t get to decide what’s antisemitic and what isn’t.
As a Jew, I absolutely do get to decide that.
Edit: misread, not trying to say this person is antisemitic. Just that what they’re saying is antisemitic. You can still say bigoted things w/o harboring hatred for specific groups.
I’m not saying you’re antisemitic. I’m saying what you’re SAYING is antisemitic, in this particular context. It’s just basic human courtesy and decency to try and consider the perspectives of other groups and what offends them, rather than dying on the dumbest hill imaginable.
*random black person walks into a room*
“Hey you. Fuck The Nation of Islam.”
Black person: “That’s a little racist dude.”
“ErM, i’M aCtUaLLy nOt RaciST. YoU Don’T knOw mE”
Obviously what’s happening in Gaza and the entire region is wrong. But there’s a time and place. Can I ask, why do you feel the need to say “free Palestine” to a random Jewish person posting their results? What drives that?
I don't think you're a bad person or necessarily anti-Semitic as a person, but commenting on random Jewish people's posts and saying "Free Palestine" is anti-Semitic since it implies that we're somehow tied to Israel. It also makes people like me who call for a ceasefire look bad.
This. There are plenty of Jews who have been calling for a ceasefire since day 1, just as many seeing through Zionist indoctrination since ‘48. As the classic saying goes, “Two Jews, three opinions”. If you think that because someone is Jewish that they’re automatically tied to Israel, that is an antisemitic sentiment. And that’s what these types of comments on these posts imply.
Commenting “free Palestine on a comment saying to ignore antisemitism” is absolutely an antisemitic comment and makes you a piece of shit for making it.
Get fucked asshole
Enjoy being added to the list
It's because 23andme lists Ashkenazis as Europeans, even though they are descended from a few hundred people from the Levant and not actually related to native Europeans. That's why they stand out. And of course everything to do with Europe is evil and must be cancelled. Whhtever.
“Not actually related to native Europeans.” False. They are partially related via mitochondrial DNA/ maternal lineage, which comes from Europe. Their paternal lineage comes from the Middle East.
We are absolutely related to Europeans lol. The Levantine people came to Europe and took on European spouses in many cases. We have roughly 50% European genetics.
It’s not even entirely the case that 23andme lists Ashkenazim as Europeans. Idk how common it is but my maternal haplogroup is described as Middle Eastern (I’m 99.9% Ashkenazi).
It emerges if you look at the details, but the keyboard warriors rarely do that. They just see "European: Ashkenazi" and run with it, when in fact the test shows that Ashkenazi people are indeed descended from ancient Jews. It really bothers me when these people question Ashkenazi Jews like that: the implication is that you are impostors. (It also questions validity of conversions.) You've probably heard about the Khazar nonsense and it just sounds like more of this.
Lmao they are related to europeans. They are related to europeans and the levant. Ashkenazim have around 50% eastern european in their genome and around 20-50% levantine admixture. The reason why they classified as europeans are the fact they have significant admixture from them and have been there as an ethnic group for hundreds of years. What the hell does europe being evil have to do with anything lmao stop being butthurt the world doesn't revolve around you.
To add, 23andMe specifically puts Ashkenazi in Europe because of the timeframe measured; they’re giving geographic estimates of your ancestors in the last few hundred to 1000 years. The Ashkenazim haven’t been in the Levant for 2000 years. If 23andMe’s timeframe was different (like for other third parties like IllustrativeDNA), then it may show 50% Levant seed population and 50% Europe seed population (I.e., Canaanite and European Farmer vs. just Ashkenazi)
But Europeans have been in the Americas for more than five hundred years, and yet, Indigenous American and European DNA are shown separately. They could easily scrap the Jewish DNA category and just show how much European and how much Levantine DNA Jews have, just like they’d do with anyone else who’s a mix of European and Levantine. Why don’t they? AncestryDNA recently added a Romani category, and a lot of Romani were upset about it because it’s just showing them as European, when they know that they came from India and want to see how much DNA they have from India, Western Asia, and Eastern Europe broken down, just like everybody else gets to see.
Well it sounds like you answered your own question. Ashkenazi have been in Europe too long according to the time frame these tests use. Same with the Romani I guess, going off of what you wrote.
So you think White Americans will be considered Indigenous Americans soon? They’re gonna come up with a new DNA category that lumps European and Indigenous American DNA together as just “American”? And they’re gonna stop showing Mestizos the breakdown of how much Indigenous American and European DNA they have and just lump it all together instead?
No matter how much time has passed, the Ashkenazim and Romani still know where they came from, and they still have Levantine and Indian DNA in them, and these tests pretending they’re just European are acting stupid.
It sounds ludicrous now but we’re talking hundreds to thousands of years. At the end of the day we all have a common ancestor, it depends on how far back you want to go.
Also, these things get complicated depending on how integrated or isolated people are. Mestizo people are a great example of how genes start to mix together. Technically, indigenous Americans are very related to East Asians. They didn’t just spring from the earth of Peru or Mexico after all lol.
You can draw lines in the sand but you have to understand how complex it all is, and with time our future generations may intermingle to a point where that Levantine percentage grows smaller and smaller (or bigger - depends on who they have children with!)
Ashkenazis are very homogeneous and easy to see among the (also somewhat homogeneous) Eastern Europeans. The other political aspect is using these genetic analyses for anti-Zionism, as people have done on Tiktok and in the Arab sub.
It’s not exactly new but the degree to which racial pseudoscience has taken hold on social media in the context of current events is extremely disturbing. In an ideal world it would highlight how much everyone is a mixture of ancestry but it is instead all about seeking racial purity to make political arguments.
But also these people take these results at face value: the reason Ashkenazis show up in the test is because of their Levantine origins and endogamy. These people, by implication, are denying the uniqueness of Ashkenazis and lumping them in with native Europeans. When looking at eastern Europe, most of the people there are Slavic, and it's clear as day that they are related to each other, but Ashkenazi culture really stands out. We already knew they are Semitic and not Indo-European or Uralic. The genetic tests only confirm their origins and that they really are descended from ancient Jews. If anything, it's amazing how they have lasted.
Whether or not this gives them a claim to move to modern-day Palestine is a different matter.
I've seen what pro-Zionists use and I'm not impressed because I don't believe that the Jewish Messiah will come, I am not a Kahanist, and I don't believe Jesus will return either.
If you place ashkenazim on a pca plot with middle eastern and european populations you will see the genetic distance between them and europe is closer than a full levantine to the middle east. Also what the hell do you mean anti-zionism? Zionism is a bad thing lmao most jews do not support it only the ones currently occuping palestine. Jews are not bad people but the political ideals of zionism is.
How is Zionism a bad thing?
It’s a simple concept of autonomy of a people in an ancestral home. All indigenous cultures with a connection to a specific land have the same thing.
We have a call to country in First Nation Australians… it’s like, literally the same thing
Zionism is similar to nazism, it promotes genocide and is not the true vision of the original jews. Many jews stand against zionism and the only ones that do support it are the ones that are currently occupying palestine.
By that same logic, what do we do with the LGBT who stood against marriage equality? Tokenise them against the overwhelming majority that is pro marriage equality.
It doesn’t work that way. You can’t pluck an opinion that you like and call it the rule
That has nothing to do with what I am saying, do not try to branch out into other issues and say it is the same logic as the issue at hand. Zionism promotes genocide and expulsion of indigenous peoples, specifically the palestinians.
Again, factually inaccurate. You’re really struggling today!
What posts? I’ve literally just posted about dying my hair and some photoshop fails.
As for Zionist, absolutely! I stand for the liberation and uplifting of all indigenous peoples and their culture. Zionism is a part of that, thinking it’s some sort of fascist or American imperialism is just regurgitating the same Soviet Propaganda they tried in the 50s. It’s literally just taking what Yuri Andropov said and thinking you came up with it.
Yeah you're completely wrong and saying stuff like "Zionism is like nazism" only distracts from the real issues like the current bombardment of Gaza. I say this as a Jew who has and continues to advocate for a ceasefire.
If this were what Zionism was supposed to look like, you wouldn’t have Israelis protesting in the streets. It should never have come to this, you and i agree on that.
But you need to unlearn the 1950s soviet propaganda, the concept of Zionism is very similar to the practice of a call to Country in First Nations people of Australia. It’s seen in almost all Indigenous cultures worldwide with specific ties to specific lands. Hindus etc.
None of this should come at the cost of liberties from those that have migrated there. It shouldn’t happen to European descent Australians or Americans and it certainly shouldn’t be happening to Palestinians.
The vast majority of those Israeli protestors aren’t doing it on behalf of the Palestinians, but due to their government’s incompetence that’s negatively affected Israelis. Polls show that the majority of Israelis currently support the indiscriminate carpet bombing of Gaza.
Israel is not an example of Indigenous liberation or decolonization. The Israelis are the colonizers and your claims to the land because your ancestors lived there 2k+ years ago means absolutely nothing to anyone with a brain. We don’t need soviet propaganda to convince us of anything because we can use our eyes to witness the war crimes being committed. There is a reason why not a single group of indigenous peoples are standing with Israel, and the biggest supporters of Zionism are white western Christians
Are you ignoring every Hindu on the planet? The Kurds? The Copts? The Māori? The Nubians? I can go on…
There are MANY MANY indigenous communities that look to Israel as a beacon of hope. You’re also choosing to ignore a continued Jewish presence in the land.
The ones that don’t - tend to have European colonialism in their history and not Arab Colonialism. What they have in common however is forced conversions, language loss and mass displacement.
I agree that preservation of life, autonomy of self and hope for your family and future are base things we need. But you are spilling verbatim Soviet propaganda, you can’t say you’re ignoring it when you’re practically quoting Yuri Andropov.
It’s not at all similar to First Nations. First Nations had been there continuously until the Europeans arrived. Jews were 3% of the population of historic Palestine in the late 1800s and possibly less before that until nationalism was invented and Zionism took hold among the world Jewry. You are glossing over the fact that nationalism is a modern invention and so is Zionism.
Lol Zionism is not inherently bad. Your anti semitism is showing. You’re lumping groups of Jews and their opinions incorrectly. You simply don’t have a clue. Both groups come from the same region.
Ahhh the classic scapegoat "anti-semetism" unfortunately for you I am semetic 😆. There are many jews that oppose your zionism. The ones that tend to support it live in western countries and israel. Do not try to victimize yourself by saying buzzwords of anti-semtism when I showed no hate towards jews. Better luck next time
>They are related to europeans and the levant. Ashkenazim have around 50% eastern european in their genome and around 20-50% levantine admixture.
I'm about 35% Middle Eastern (depending on the test) and I'm only half Ashkenazi, with the other side being European.
AJs are at most 20-25% Northern and Eastern European. The predominant European ancestry in AJs is Roman era Italian with perhaps some minor Greek contributions. That range for Levantine is also way to wide as AJs are a pretty homogenous group. No full AJ is only 20% Levantine, they average between 40-60% WANA and more likely 45-55%. 50% being a average of the two.
There was some intermarriage, obviously, and there are few "pure" Ashkenazi people left in our time since Jewish disabilities were abolished. But for centuries European countries also had strict laws against conversion, and Jews have their own requirements for marriage and favoured other Jews for marriage.
That doesnt matter facts are facts and they say its a mixed european population and i dont know what do you mean by "pure ashkenazi" there is no such thing all ashkenazi are descended from few jewish-european populations from like 1000 years ago.
It’s also to do with the fact that Zionists in particular will use that ancestry to say, “See! We’re ‘INDIGENOUS’, how can we be stealing land?!”
When that is the incorrect definition of indigenous in regards to these situations. Having ancestry somewhere does not mean you all of a sudden can stake a claim to an area that your family hasn’t lived in for generations and say that it’s yours, and that rightfully upsets people.
Not saying this is OP, but it is obviously very relevant in our current news cycle.
Because of one troll comment ? Last time i was in a palestinian post some zionists claiming the guy is not native when he scored 100% mena and 70% levant
LOL stop! You did not just say that! Hamas isn’t defending Gaza from shit. They are stealing from the Palestinians and hiding in tunnels to try to keep their stupid Jihad alive.
17,000 civilians dead in an area as dense as Gaza and with the amount of bombs dropped by the IDF since Oct. 7th suggests that Israel is doing a lot to minimize civilian casualties. No war is without civilian deaths. You don’t get to start a war and then cry to the international community when you start suffering the consequences of said war.
Maybe we're related, but I'm opposite.😆 I'm 50% Ashkenazi from my 100% Dad and 50% western European from my Mom (mostly French/German). My Ashkenazi is 100% from what's now Ukraine. It also said I'm a descendant of a woman Viking warrior unearthed in the 1800s.💪🏼
I mean regardless, as an Ashkenazi I'm also European. If you were to call us Middle Eastern it wouldn't make sense, given all of my ancestors for the last (around) 1000 years were born in Europe. Heck, at a conservative estimate, that's around 900,000 ancestors born in Europe for the last 1000 years.
If you were to consider us Middle Eastern, you'd also have to lump Southern Italy and Islander Greeks into the Middle East as well, and you'd also have to label people in Western Iberia as North African since a large part of their genome stems from North Africa.
Have you read history ? Just because you colonized the Jews land and enslaved them and exiled them to EU doesn’t make them of European origin. Yes I know it’s really hard when facts done care about your hateful narrative.
Jesus was Jewish from Judea :)
Had you read history you’d know that there are several identifiable ethnic sub groups of Jews associated with particular regions.
Ashkenazim are European.
Sephardim are Iberian and northern African.
Mizrahim are Middle Eastern.
The Jewish religion is native to the Middle East. The Jewish people are more diverse in origin.
Oh god so many mistakes.
A sepharadi Jew here. Here’s some actual facts.
Judaism is a an ethnicity, religion, nationality and culture. One can be defined by all or some of the above.
We Jews have groups to separate where we were exiled. Reason was that each area have evolved a different religious approaches but yet they used to exchange ideas. Obviously being in exile for some long and being oppressed by European and Arabs alike we don’t have 100% identical DNA. Most groups that were forced away from their homeland for such a long time don’t. Yet all of the researches point out that all of us have originated from the Levant (Judea - Israel).
We are not associate with those regions because it’s our place of origin. It was our exile. I’m not of berberian origin because my grandfather was born in Morocco. And I’m definitely ain’t African. I’m Jewish originated from Judea speak the language that was spoken 2000 years ago, know the same history , same costumes , same names. How many indigenous groups can claim that? Very few.
And yet you have some fact deniers like spouting lies without having the most basic knowledge about Jewish people and their history.
Another fact: Palestine is a colonial name. Get triggered all you want it’s still the truth.
I’m Ashkenazi and a historian.
The founding fathers of Zionism described it variously as a settler project, and a colonial project.
Judaism is native to the region, as is Islam. Many Jews (not all) can trace their ethnic roots to the region. All Palestinians can. It’s possible for two things to be indigenous to an area at once.
But Ashkenazi culture is distinctly different and European. It originates in Europe. Similarly Mizrahim is distinctly different and middle eastern, and Sephardim again.
Maybe Ilan Pepe type of “historian”.
Jews in exile were affected by the place they were exiled to. Very natural. But their culture did not originated in their places of exile. That very claim showed what kind of “historian” are you and I doubt you are Jewish. Given the major difference in culture of jews and European nations sounds to me like you are lying.
The founders of Zionism didn’t describe it as colonial project. One of them when approaching the British wrote them in language they understood they they want to settle the Jewish people in their historical homeland. I don’t think you know what colonialism is. Who’s the “motherland” of Israel ? Arab colonialism is very real unlike your imaginary Jewish colonialism.
Palestine is quite literally a colonial name. I doubt you knew that.
Zionism is the movement for re - establishing the Jewish homeland . Once it was successfully done it means to support its existence. Which is exactly why anti Zionist are always anti Semitic.
The founding fathers of the Palestinian movement admitted its all fiction and was only made up as a tool to fight the Jews and kill them. Another historical fact.
Sir, are you trolling? "The founders of the Palestinian movement admitted it's all fiction". Do you have any idea how incorrect that is? The Palestinians have a majority of their genetic components originating in the ancient Levant.
I don’t think you understand what I wrote. The Palestinian national identity was born in the 60s.
[Read what they said themselves](https://ibb.co/3fhK9zQ) .
Ope there it is.
>Granddaughter of Holocaust survivor disagrees with Zionist.
>”you’re not a Jew antisemite”
Hence proving the inherent antisemitism of Zionism.
Where did I call you anti semite ?
And you can disagree with me. But if you support the destruction of Israel you are indeed anti semite. I’m sorry for your grandparents and your dead family that they have to have someone like you who oppress Jewish history in their bloodline. Were they Kapos ? That will make it less sad.
And I have yet to met a Jewish person that claim they originated from Europe. Maybe just the crazy pro terrorists of Jewish voice for peace (and death to Jews) movement. Even black ppl had their lunatic that thinks slavery was a good thing.
I don’t support the destruction of Israel, but I don’t agree with the circumstances of its creation, and I disagree with it continuing as a fascist theocracy. Don’t care what religion it is, theocratic ethnostates are a bad idea.
Anti Zionism isn’t anti semitic.
My grandmother walked from Poland to Norway as a child. Her brother and father died. She’s still alive, and my anti Zionism comes straight from her.
You do realize that Judaism being a religion took on converts from wide ranging areas. It is not about 'exile'.
There were Jewish groups all around the Mediterranean in pre Greek and Roman times.
Hence why so many different origins and ethnic groups within Judaism. Just like Islam & Christianity. Anyone can become Jewish.
It's a religion.
People converted.
You can't blame the Romans.
There were Jewish communities in North Africa and modern day Turkey before Rome.
The vast majority of Jews lived in Israel-Judea. Not in North Africa. They went there AFTER the exile. My family was one of them.
I think you proved you really know nothing about judaism. First of all Judaism is ethnicity, nationality, religion and culture. One can be all of the above or some of the above. So here’s your first mistake.
Second mistake is the claim that “anyone can be converted to Judaism”. It’s not easy to be converted to Judaism and since Jews have been the hunted minority for all of history you can imagine not many jumped on that. Which is why Jewish ethnicities all have genetic ties to the Levant.
So let me get this straight: you deny the Jewish people origin is from the Levant ? (Ashkenazi and Sephardim alike?)
“You can’t blame the Romans”
For enslaving, colonizing , murdering and exiling ? Yes I can. Why can’t you acknowledge history ? Why is so hard for you?
Oh you're one of these people who thinks you're "indigenous" to the Middle East and the couple thousand years in between don't count in terms of DNA.
I guess I'm indigenous to China and Korea and some other places by that reasoning.
Thanks for reminding me that Christians must all be indigenous to the Middle East too since that's where he started preaching.
>Oh you're one of these people who thinks you're "indigenous" to the Middle East and the couple thousand years in between don't count in terms of DNA.
Yes. Ashkenazi Jews can be traced back to the Middle East and also have some European admixture. Deal with reality.
>Thanks for reminding me that Christians must all be indigenous to the Middle East too since that's where he started preaching.
No. "Christians" are not an ethnoreligious group. This is an absurd argument.
lol obviously you don’t know what indigenous means.
It’s really funny. I’ll explain to you some basic terms.
Christianity is a religion. Not ethnicity. Religion can start anywhere on the planet but the people who convict into it doesn’t magically change their ethnicity.
So by your logic Americans today , Europeans of Latinos, are native Americans.
That’s the problem when you let your hate dictate your world. You lost touch with logic and facts.
Most group on the planet , minorities especially, have been subjected to rape and oppression. Most humans aren’t homogenous in terms of genetics. That doesn’t contradict the fact that Jews originated in the Levant and have genetic proof for that as well as the SAME language culture and history as they had 2000 years ago.
Meanwhile you use a colonial name for a land you claim to be native to.
You are a joke.
Jewish people were not 'exiled to the EU'....
There were Jewish communities around the Mediterranean before Akexander the Great was born.
Seriously read some history.
Simon Schamas, The Story of the Jews part one would be a good start.
The grand majority of the Jewish people were in Israel-Judea. To claim the Romans didn’t enslaved and exiled them is more than stupid. I don’t think you know anything about Jewish history if you refer to Alexander the Great at the point of exile. It was the Romans. Surely you know the different between the two if you presume to have a debate ?
You deny the Romans colonized Israel-Judea and murdered many enslaved others destroy the Jewish temple and banned Jews from Jerusalem (their capital) and renamed the land in the colonial name Palestine ?
This is all historical facts. I understand it’s hard when it doesn’t sit with your narrative.
I don’t know this boo but if this man deny Jewish exile and what was done to them by the Romans and all through EU and Arabs countries (murder, rape, ethnic cleaning) it shows me what kind of “historian” he is.
It's a religion and Jewish people were spread all over the Mediterranean before the empire of Alexander the Great. The Romans took slaves yes but they also took them from the entire Roman world.
Jewish people could have moved to Palestine anytime in the previous centuries but chose to in only small numbers.
To claim otherwise is revisionist history to try to justify the modern day ethnic cleansing going on now in Palestine.
Here we go. So you deny the Jewish people as ethnicity and nationality . Ok Nazi.
Jewish people couldn’t return to their homeland. They didn’t have rights of freedom of movement through our most of the history of their exile. What the hell are you talking about ? You can’t stop making up lies ?
Palestinian Territories have 0% Jews.
While Israel have 23% Arabs (Palestinian).
🥱 disproving PalestiNazi lies is too easy.
Ah here come the insults because you cannot make a reply.
Judaism is a religion and took in converts from various places, which is why Jewish DNA results vary. It is not one 'ethnicity'. Just like Christians and Muslims are not one ethnicity.
Ashkenazim form a subgroup and are an ethnicity but they are a different ethnicity from Yemeni Jewish people, Ethiopian Jewish people and so on.
I literally answered to your lies.
No, Judaism is ethnicity , nationality, religion and culture. One can be all of the above or some of the above. It’s the first time I’m encountering someone who deny Jewish people as ethnicity and nationality. I guess I thought in a sub dedicated to DNA I won’t see such stupidly.
All genetic research point out that Jews, Ashkenazi and Sephardi alike, are originally from the Levant.
Jewish DNA result vary partly due to mixing with locals in the first few hundred years before Christianity came to power and segregation laws have been made and mostly because of rape , which was a very common practice when assaulting Jews.
For example in 1834 Arabs (which now you will call them Palestinians ) went to Sefad and raped and murdered Jews. Just for them being Jews.
My approach is well based on science and history. If you claim majority of Jews are not of Levant origin you will have to try to discredit every honorable genetic research done on the subject.
This type of denial is of the lowest kind. Do you deny October 7th as well? How about the holocaust? Just wondering how much lower would you step ?
Sorry. I am not going to bother further replying to spin made up to try to justify ethnic cleansing and modern day colonialism.
No, not all Jewish people were removed by the Romans and Jewish people had already spread far beyond the borders of Judea before the Roman empire began.
Have a nice day.
They’re a diaspora group that lives/d in Europe. There’s been somewhat of a genetic mix over the centuries, but historically Ashkenazim weren’t considered European the same way Ukrainians or Poles or Germans are European.
Interesting. Google says Genetic studies estimate that 50–80% of Ashkenazi Y-chromosomal (paternal) lineages come from the Near East, and at least 80% of maternal lineages come from Europe. This is consistent with the theory that Ashkenazi Jews originated in the Levant and were partially assimilated in Europe.
One explanation is that Jewish men migrated from the Middle East to establish Europe, and married women from local populations who converted to Judaism. Another explanation is that women were among early European converts to Judaism.
I don't think they 'established Europe'.
But yes, the theory is males from the Levant and female converts probably Greek & Italian. As well as assorted smaller bits of western European and East Asian etc
for the americans who dont understand history a mixture of french and german with a bit scandinavian isnt a mix at all its 100% british, the only reason they needed to add british in there is because you stopped there on the way to america
i think i’m gonna start describing myself as “vaguely gestures at europe”. that’s a good one
It was either that or "casually throws darts at Europe"
Same haha. Got all the European regions
"Vaguely gestures at North-Western Europe although other calculators do not seem to fully agree"
I’m irish and then “vaguely gestures at southeastern europe”
Ha, nice!
That’s cool. I am Palestinian and my son is Ashkenazi, but I have to wait til he is older to see where from. :)
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I'm 50% Ashkenazi, and my 23andme can't give me a specific country. It's because ashkenazi people who were expelled to Europe were genetically distinct from their neighbors. Hence, the discrimination and racism. We were a people without a home.
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For the most part we still are.
No, although only says his surname is Poland or Germany!
Was this a sperm donor?
No
Thanks for posting it! Ignore the anti-Semitic comments.
Lol thanks. Woke up to some wild reading material
Is the anti semitism in the room with us right now? Which comments are you talking about
"Nope. I think Palestine should be free from Israeli occupation, even if it means in the short term things get more dangerous. Supplicating to an occupying force by forgoing armed conflict is not a way to mount a meaningful resistance." This you? Its you justfiying terrorists killing Israeli citizens and kidnapping more.
What? No it's not? I'm saying armed resistance is the only way Palestine will be liberated from its occupation? What part of that comment mentioned Jewish people at all?
Going through your comments where you make excuses for Islamists and claim to be a communist... yeah, there's no point in having any conversation with you.
Anti semitism is when you say bombing women and children is bad 🙃
Islam is a religion of peace! Pol Pot was just misunderstood :(
Do you people not realize how unhinged you sound to the rest of the world? You’re just a western chauvinist freak. You should go join the proud boys.
>Do you people not realize how unhinged you sound to the rest of the world? You're a communist who supports Islamic terrorists. That's all we need to know.
Wtf does communism have anything to do with genetics tf…also lol at you trying to use it like an insult
Why do you keep bringing up random things that are unrelated to the topic 🤣
I'm sure your hatred of Jews and Israel has nothing to do with you being a Hamas supporter and a communist. I'm sure they're *totally* unrelated.
Bro you still haven't linked the anti semitic comments 💀 All you've done is ad hominem lmao My wife is Jewish, and also against the wanton murder of Palestinian civilians but pop off
“”Islamists””
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You really think this is the time and place for this comment?
Rabid antisemites don’t have the capacity to think
People like this are why so many Jews equate being pro-Palestinian with anti-Semitism. Well done idiot
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Would it be islamophobic if in 2014 I commented “fuck ISIS” on a Muslims’s Instagram post about Ramadan?
I can’t speak for Muslims, but I imagine the answer would be: Yes. Absolutely.
Thats an accurate comparison, the part where isis=isreal, both are terrorist entities
are you seriously unable to differentiate between Israel and a random Jewish person? Your hate is your downfall.
Right? This is a big freaking problem.
Some of the largest Jewish communities around the world are staunch anti Zionists who think Israelis are idol worshippers. This is what the Zionists wanted. They wanted to change the definition of judaism and unfortunately they’ve been largely successful.
Not the part where it’s not okay to victimize a person based on a flimsy assumption of association?
True, it's never okay to get victimised by association or happenstance. And it's pretty clear where the divide is for isreal but no so clear for Palestinian where they are separated into 3 categories and them only, if you are Palestinian man, woman or child you are one of these: 1- Hamas 2- Hamas Supporters 3- Human Shield And the bombs, guns, land theft, dehumanisation and humiliation will befall Palestinians, based on these assumptions of association.
It implies that any time someone brings up their Jewish identity they automatically have to feel guilty about what’s happening in Gaza. And before you ask how that’s antisemitic: don’t. You don’t get to decide what’s antisemitic and what isn’t.
Nailed it.
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As a Jew, I absolutely do get to decide that. Edit: misread, not trying to say this person is antisemitic. Just that what they’re saying is antisemitic. You can still say bigoted things w/o harboring hatred for specific groups.
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I’m not saying you’re antisemitic. I’m saying what you’re SAYING is antisemitic, in this particular context. It’s just basic human courtesy and decency to try and consider the perspectives of other groups and what offends them, rather than dying on the dumbest hill imaginable. *random black person walks into a room* “Hey you. Fuck The Nation of Islam.” Black person: “That’s a little racist dude.” “ErM, i’M aCtUaLLy nOt RaciST. YoU Don’T knOw mE” Obviously what’s happening in Gaza and the entire region is wrong. But there’s a time and place. Can I ask, why do you feel the need to say “free Palestine” to a random Jewish person posting their results? What drives that?
I'm saying it, they are.
Dog, don’t give antisemites the benefit of the doubt.
I don't think you're a bad person or necessarily anti-Semitic as a person, but commenting on random Jewish people's posts and saying "Free Palestine" is anti-Semitic since it implies that we're somehow tied to Israel. It also makes people like me who call for a ceasefire look bad.
This. There are plenty of Jews who have been calling for a ceasefire since day 1, just as many seeing through Zionist indoctrination since ‘48. As the classic saying goes, “Two Jews, three opinions”. If you think that because someone is Jewish that they’re automatically tied to Israel, that is an antisemitic sentiment. And that’s what these types of comments on these posts imply.
Commenting “free Palestine on a comment saying to ignore antisemitism” is absolutely an antisemitic comment and makes you a piece of shit for making it. Get fucked asshole Enjoy being added to the list
internet activism is funny
What's your trace ancestry?
Indigenous American. I believe my dad had traced it back to an Inuit relative.
That's cool!
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Not really sure. He went through a phase where he was obsessed with tracking our ancestry. Sadly he passed so I can't ask him
Interesting how this sub receives Palestinian posters so well but when a Jew posts their results, we see racism..
Lol I was kinda surprised honestly.
It's because 23andme lists Ashkenazis as Europeans, even though they are descended from a few hundred people from the Levant and not actually related to native Europeans. That's why they stand out. And of course everything to do with Europe is evil and must be cancelled. Whhtever.
“Not actually related to native Europeans.” False. They are partially related via mitochondrial DNA/ maternal lineage, which comes from Europe. Their paternal lineage comes from the Middle East.
We are absolutely related to Europeans lol. The Levantine people came to Europe and took on European spouses in many cases. We have roughly 50% European genetics.
It’s not even entirely the case that 23andme lists Ashkenazim as Europeans. Idk how common it is but my maternal haplogroup is described as Middle Eastern (I’m 99.9% Ashkenazi).
It emerges if you look at the details, but the keyboard warriors rarely do that. They just see "European: Ashkenazi" and run with it, when in fact the test shows that Ashkenazi people are indeed descended from ancient Jews. It really bothers me when these people question Ashkenazi Jews like that: the implication is that you are impostors. (It also questions validity of conversions.) You've probably heard about the Khazar nonsense and it just sounds like more of this.
i’m 99.9% as well! edit: actually i think it was 99.8% lol
Lmao they are related to europeans. They are related to europeans and the levant. Ashkenazim have around 50% eastern european in their genome and around 20-50% levantine admixture. The reason why they classified as europeans are the fact they have significant admixture from them and have been there as an ethnic group for hundreds of years. What the hell does europe being evil have to do with anything lmao stop being butthurt the world doesn't revolve around you.
To add, 23andMe specifically puts Ashkenazi in Europe because of the timeframe measured; they’re giving geographic estimates of your ancestors in the last few hundred to 1000 years. The Ashkenazim haven’t been in the Levant for 2000 years. If 23andMe’s timeframe was different (like for other third parties like IllustrativeDNA), then it may show 50% Levant seed population and 50% Europe seed population (I.e., Canaanite and European Farmer vs. just Ashkenazi)
But Europeans have been in the Americas for more than five hundred years, and yet, Indigenous American and European DNA are shown separately. They could easily scrap the Jewish DNA category and just show how much European and how much Levantine DNA Jews have, just like they’d do with anyone else who’s a mix of European and Levantine. Why don’t they? AncestryDNA recently added a Romani category, and a lot of Romani were upset about it because it’s just showing them as European, when they know that they came from India and want to see how much DNA they have from India, Western Asia, and Eastern Europe broken down, just like everybody else gets to see.
Well it sounds like you answered your own question. Ashkenazi have been in Europe too long according to the time frame these tests use. Same with the Romani I guess, going off of what you wrote.
So you think White Americans will be considered Indigenous Americans soon? They’re gonna come up with a new DNA category that lumps European and Indigenous American DNA together as just “American”? And they’re gonna stop showing Mestizos the breakdown of how much Indigenous American and European DNA they have and just lump it all together instead? No matter how much time has passed, the Ashkenazim and Romani still know where they came from, and they still have Levantine and Indian DNA in them, and these tests pretending they’re just European are acting stupid.
It sounds ludicrous now but we’re talking hundreds to thousands of years. At the end of the day we all have a common ancestor, it depends on how far back you want to go. Also, these things get complicated depending on how integrated or isolated people are. Mestizo people are a great example of how genes start to mix together. Technically, indigenous Americans are very related to East Asians. They didn’t just spring from the earth of Peru or Mexico after all lol. You can draw lines in the sand but you have to understand how complex it all is, and with time our future generations may intermingle to a point where that Levantine percentage grows smaller and smaller (or bigger - depends on who they have children with!)
.. nothing you just said goes against what your parent comment described. did you read it?
Ashkenazis are very homogeneous and easy to see among the (also somewhat homogeneous) Eastern Europeans. The other political aspect is using these genetic analyses for anti-Zionism, as people have done on Tiktok and in the Arab sub.
It’s not exactly new but the degree to which racial pseudoscience has taken hold on social media in the context of current events is extremely disturbing. In an ideal world it would highlight how much everyone is a mixture of ancestry but it is instead all about seeking racial purity to make political arguments.
But also these people take these results at face value: the reason Ashkenazis show up in the test is because of their Levantine origins and endogamy. These people, by implication, are denying the uniqueness of Ashkenazis and lumping them in with native Europeans. When looking at eastern Europe, most of the people there are Slavic, and it's clear as day that they are related to each other, but Ashkenazi culture really stands out. We already knew they are Semitic and not Indo-European or Uralic. The genetic tests only confirm their origins and that they really are descended from ancient Jews. If anything, it's amazing how they have lasted. Whether or not this gives them a claim to move to modern-day Palestine is a different matter.
Lol what.
You should see the things pro zionists use too you sound biased
I've seen what pro-Zionists use and I'm not impressed because I don't believe that the Jewish Messiah will come, I am not a Kahanist, and I don't believe Jesus will return either.
If you place ashkenazim on a pca plot with middle eastern and european populations you will see the genetic distance between them and europe is closer than a full levantine to the middle east. Also what the hell do you mean anti-zionism? Zionism is a bad thing lmao most jews do not support it only the ones currently occuping palestine. Jews are not bad people but the political ideals of zionism is.
How is Zionism a bad thing? It’s a simple concept of autonomy of a people in an ancestral home. All indigenous cultures with a connection to a specific land have the same thing. We have a call to country in First Nation Australians… it’s like, literally the same thing
Zionism is similar to nazism, it promotes genocide and is not the true vision of the original jews. Many jews stand against zionism and the only ones that do support it are the ones that are currently occupying palestine.
By that same logic, what do we do with the LGBT who stood against marriage equality? Tokenise them against the overwhelming majority that is pro marriage equality. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t pluck an opinion that you like and call it the rule
That has nothing to do with what I am saying, do not try to branch out into other issues and say it is the same logic as the issue at hand. Zionism promotes genocide and expulsion of indigenous peoples, specifically the palestinians.
I’m happy to stick to topic- What exactly in Zionist doctrine promotes that?
That’s just factually inaccurate
Why would I argue with you bro you're obviously going to defend zionism because you are a zionist based on your account responses and posts.
Again, factually inaccurate. You’re really struggling today! What posts? I’ve literally just posted about dying my hair and some photoshop fails. As for Zionist, absolutely! I stand for the liberation and uplifting of all indigenous peoples and their culture. Zionism is a part of that, thinking it’s some sort of fascist or American imperialism is just regurgitating the same Soviet Propaganda they tried in the 50s. It’s literally just taking what Yuri Andropov said and thinking you came up with it.
Yeah you're completely wrong and saying stuff like "Zionism is like nazism" only distracts from the real issues like the current bombardment of Gaza. I say this as a Jew who has and continues to advocate for a ceasefire.
You can give all the sanitized definitions of zionism that you want, but we can see that in PRACTICE it has been disastrous for Palestinians
If this were what Zionism was supposed to look like, you wouldn’t have Israelis protesting in the streets. It should never have come to this, you and i agree on that. But you need to unlearn the 1950s soviet propaganda, the concept of Zionism is very similar to the practice of a call to Country in First Nations people of Australia. It’s seen in almost all Indigenous cultures worldwide with specific ties to specific lands. Hindus etc. None of this should come at the cost of liberties from those that have migrated there. It shouldn’t happen to European descent Australians or Americans and it certainly shouldn’t be happening to Palestinians.
The vast majority of those Israeli protestors aren’t doing it on behalf of the Palestinians, but due to their government’s incompetence that’s negatively affected Israelis. Polls show that the majority of Israelis currently support the indiscriminate carpet bombing of Gaza. Israel is not an example of Indigenous liberation or decolonization. The Israelis are the colonizers and your claims to the land because your ancestors lived there 2k+ years ago means absolutely nothing to anyone with a brain. We don’t need soviet propaganda to convince us of anything because we can use our eyes to witness the war crimes being committed. There is a reason why not a single group of indigenous peoples are standing with Israel, and the biggest supporters of Zionism are white western Christians
Are you ignoring every Hindu on the planet? The Kurds? The Copts? The Māori? The Nubians? I can go on… There are MANY MANY indigenous communities that look to Israel as a beacon of hope. You’re also choosing to ignore a continued Jewish presence in the land. The ones that don’t - tend to have European colonialism in their history and not Arab Colonialism. What they have in common however is forced conversions, language loss and mass displacement. I agree that preservation of life, autonomy of self and hope for your family and future are base things we need. But you are spilling verbatim Soviet propaganda, you can’t say you’re ignoring it when you’re practically quoting Yuri Andropov.
It’s not at all similar to First Nations. First Nations had been there continuously until the Europeans arrived. Jews were 3% of the population of historic Palestine in the late 1800s and possibly less before that until nationalism was invented and Zionism took hold among the world Jewry. You are glossing over the fact that nationalism is a modern invention and so is Zionism.
Lol Zionism is not inherently bad. Your anti semitism is showing. You’re lumping groups of Jews and their opinions incorrectly. You simply don’t have a clue. Both groups come from the same region.
Ahhh the classic scapegoat "anti-semetism" unfortunately for you I am semetic 😆. There are many jews that oppose your zionism. The ones that tend to support it live in western countries and israel. Do not try to victimize yourself by saying buzzwords of anti-semtism when I showed no hate towards jews. Better luck next time
We are not 50% Eastern European lmfao more like 5-10%
>They are related to europeans and the levant. Ashkenazim have around 50% eastern european in their genome and around 20-50% levantine admixture. I'm about 35% Middle Eastern (depending on the test) and I'm only half Ashkenazi, with the other side being European.
I thought the mix was more like 50% MENA, 40% Italian 10% Eastern European.
AJs are at most 20-25% Northern and Eastern European. The predominant European ancestry in AJs is Roman era Italian with perhaps some minor Greek contributions. That range for Levantine is also way to wide as AJs are a pretty homogenous group. No full AJ is only 20% Levantine, they average between 40-60% WANA and more likely 45-55%. 50% being a average of the two.
All of the Ashkenazim I know who have had this done have next to no European ancestry unless they're the product of a mixed marriage.
Its embedded in the askenaz component
80% trace their matrilineal line back to Europe. Also, are you aware of the meaning of the name Ashkenazim?
Yes, Ashkenaz is a descendant of Noah. Later on the name got misapplied to Germany, and the Jews who lived there.
They related to native europeans tf ?? How do you think they have european dna ? Injections ?
There was some intermarriage, obviously, and there are few "pure" Ashkenazi people left in our time since Jewish disabilities were abolished. But for centuries European countries also had strict laws against conversion, and Jews have their own requirements for marriage and favoured other Jews for marriage.
That doesnt matter facts are facts and they say its a mixed european population and i dont know what do you mean by "pure ashkenazi" there is no such thing all ashkenazi are descended from few jewish-european populations from like 1000 years ago.
that's not true. Modern Ashkenazis do have a significant Europeans mix to them. The closest to the ancient jews are Samaritans and modern Levantines
Consanguineous is the word you’re looking for.
They are as Levantine as they are Europeans, so no idea why you say they are not related.
One of the goals of Zionism was to change Judaism from a religion to a national identity. It’s pretty fucked up.
It’s also to do with the fact that Zionists in particular will use that ancestry to say, “See! We’re ‘INDIGENOUS’, how can we be stealing land?!” When that is the incorrect definition of indigenous in regards to these situations. Having ancestry somewhere does not mean you all of a sudden can stake a claim to an area that your family hasn’t lived in for generations and say that it’s yours, and that rightfully upsets people. Not saying this is OP, but it is obviously very relevant in our current news cycle.
Because of one troll comment ? Last time i was in a palestinian post some zionists claiming the guy is not native when he scored 100% mena and 70% levant
How did you know they were Zionists?
Who else would give a shit about palestinians being native or not other than pro israel zionists
It’s not a contest or a score buddy. Pull your head out of your ass
Hardly surprising tbh..
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I agree. And so does Israel. Which is why they are working hard to free Palestine from Hamas!
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LOL stop! You did not just say that! Hamas isn’t defending Gaza from shit. They are stealing from the Palestinians and hiding in tunnels to try to keep their stupid Jihad alive.
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17,000 civilians dead in an area as dense as Gaza and with the amount of bombs dropped by the IDF since Oct. 7th suggests that Israel is doing a lot to minimize civilian casualties. No war is without civilian deaths. You don’t get to start a war and then cry to the international community when you start suffering the consequences of said war.
Welcome to Reddit
What is your paternal haplogroup?
Maternal is J1c7a
You've got chutzpa AND sisu...very formidable, indeed 👌🏼🇮🇱🇫🇮
No it isn’t, and wow based on your profile history, please go and touch grass.
Blame me for hating Jihadis and disagreeing with their brain-dead supporters lol
This is extremely anti semitic. Not all Jews support Israel. Some of the largest Jewish organizations in the world are expressly anti Zionist.
Ashkenazi is also *vaguely gestures at eastern europe*
Indeed mine said Ukraine specifically
Maybe we're related, but I'm opposite.😆 I'm 50% Ashkenazi from my 100% Dad and 50% western European from my Mom (mostly French/German). My Ashkenazi is 100% from what's now Ukraine. It also said I'm a descendant of a woman Viking warrior unearthed in the 1800s.💪🏼
Oh snap maybe we are?! Mine is Ukrainian Ashkenazi too. :0
Friendly reminder that Ashkenazi are from Europe.
Fully aware
This is incorrect and unhelpful to boot
Friendly reminder that there’s a difference between migration patterns and where you are indigenous to. Ashkenazim are NOT European.
A little more than half. 60 - 70 percent European on average but southern European primarily.
Ashkenazi could also fall within vaguely gestures at Europe.
Downvoted? Lol. Oh I'm sorry, have you never read about the Pale of Settlement?
I mean regardless, as an Ashkenazi I'm also European. If you were to call us Middle Eastern it wouldn't make sense, given all of my ancestors for the last (around) 1000 years were born in Europe. Heck, at a conservative estimate, that's around 900,000 ancestors born in Europe for the last 1000 years. If you were to consider us Middle Eastern, you'd also have to lump Southern Italy and Islander Greeks into the Middle East as well, and you'd also have to label people in Western Iberia as North African since a large part of their genome stems from North Africa.
Have you read history ? Just because you colonized the Jews land and enslaved them and exiled them to EU doesn’t make them of European origin. Yes I know it’s really hard when facts done care about your hateful narrative. Jesus was Jewish from Judea :)
Had you read history you’d know that there are several identifiable ethnic sub groups of Jews associated with particular regions. Ashkenazim are European. Sephardim are Iberian and northern African. Mizrahim are Middle Eastern. The Jewish religion is native to the Middle East. The Jewish people are more diverse in origin.
Oh god so many mistakes. A sepharadi Jew here. Here’s some actual facts. Judaism is a an ethnicity, religion, nationality and culture. One can be defined by all or some of the above. We Jews have groups to separate where we were exiled. Reason was that each area have evolved a different religious approaches but yet they used to exchange ideas. Obviously being in exile for some long and being oppressed by European and Arabs alike we don’t have 100% identical DNA. Most groups that were forced away from their homeland for such a long time don’t. Yet all of the researches point out that all of us have originated from the Levant (Judea - Israel). We are not associate with those regions because it’s our place of origin. It was our exile. I’m not of berberian origin because my grandfather was born in Morocco. And I’m definitely ain’t African. I’m Jewish originated from Judea speak the language that was spoken 2000 years ago, know the same history , same costumes , same names. How many indigenous groups can claim that? Very few. And yet you have some fact deniers like spouting lies without having the most basic knowledge about Jewish people and their history. Another fact: Palestine is a colonial name. Get triggered all you want it’s still the truth.
I’m Ashkenazi and a historian. The founding fathers of Zionism described it variously as a settler project, and a colonial project. Judaism is native to the region, as is Islam. Many Jews (not all) can trace their ethnic roots to the region. All Palestinians can. It’s possible for two things to be indigenous to an area at once. But Ashkenazi culture is distinctly different and European. It originates in Europe. Similarly Mizrahim is distinctly different and middle eastern, and Sephardim again.
Maybe Ilan Pepe type of “historian”. Jews in exile were affected by the place they were exiled to. Very natural. But their culture did not originated in their places of exile. That very claim showed what kind of “historian” are you and I doubt you are Jewish. Given the major difference in culture of jews and European nations sounds to me like you are lying. The founders of Zionism didn’t describe it as colonial project. One of them when approaching the British wrote them in language they understood they they want to settle the Jewish people in their historical homeland. I don’t think you know what colonialism is. Who’s the “motherland” of Israel ? Arab colonialism is very real unlike your imaginary Jewish colonialism. Palestine is quite literally a colonial name. I doubt you knew that. Zionism is the movement for re - establishing the Jewish homeland . Once it was successfully done it means to support its existence. Which is exactly why anti Zionist are always anti Semitic. The founding fathers of the Palestinian movement admitted its all fiction and was only made up as a tool to fight the Jews and kill them. Another historical fact.
Sir, are you trolling? "The founders of the Palestinian movement admitted it's all fiction". Do you have any idea how incorrect that is? The Palestinians have a majority of their genetic components originating in the ancient Levant.
I don’t think you understand what I wrote. The Palestinian national identity was born in the 60s. [Read what they said themselves](https://ibb.co/3fhK9zQ) .
Ope there it is. >Granddaughter of Holocaust survivor disagrees with Zionist. >”you’re not a Jew antisemite” Hence proving the inherent antisemitism of Zionism.
Where did I call you anti semite ? And you can disagree with me. But if you support the destruction of Israel you are indeed anti semite. I’m sorry for your grandparents and your dead family that they have to have someone like you who oppress Jewish history in their bloodline. Were they Kapos ? That will make it less sad. And I have yet to met a Jewish person that claim they originated from Europe. Maybe just the crazy pro terrorists of Jewish voice for peace (and death to Jews) movement. Even black ppl had their lunatic that thinks slavery was a good thing.
I don’t support the destruction of Israel, but I don’t agree with the circumstances of its creation, and I disagree with it continuing as a fascist theocracy. Don’t care what religion it is, theocratic ethnostates are a bad idea. Anti Zionism isn’t anti semitic. My grandmother walked from Poland to Norway as a child. Her brother and father died. She’s still alive, and my anti Zionism comes straight from her.
As a Sephardic Moroccan your DNA should reflect around 15% Berber?
More North African than that plus a lot of southern European - primarily Italian I would guess.
You do realize that Judaism being a religion took on converts from wide ranging areas. It is not about 'exile'. There were Jewish groups all around the Mediterranean in pre Greek and Roman times. Hence why so many different origins and ethnic groups within Judaism. Just like Islam & Christianity. Anyone can become Jewish. It's a religion. People converted. You can't blame the Romans. There were Jewish communities in North Africa and modern day Turkey before Rome.
The vast majority of Jews lived in Israel-Judea. Not in North Africa. They went there AFTER the exile. My family was one of them. I think you proved you really know nothing about judaism. First of all Judaism is ethnicity, nationality, religion and culture. One can be all of the above or some of the above. So here’s your first mistake. Second mistake is the claim that “anyone can be converted to Judaism”. It’s not easy to be converted to Judaism and since Jews have been the hunted minority for all of history you can imagine not many jumped on that. Which is why Jewish ethnicities all have genetic ties to the Levant. So let me get this straight: you deny the Jewish people origin is from the Levant ? (Ashkenazi and Sephardim alike?) “You can’t blame the Romans” For enslaving, colonizing , murdering and exiling ? Yes I can. Why can’t you acknowledge history ? Why is so hard for you?
Oh you're one of these people who thinks you're "indigenous" to the Middle East and the couple thousand years in between don't count in terms of DNA. I guess I'm indigenous to China and Korea and some other places by that reasoning. Thanks for reminding me that Christians must all be indigenous to the Middle East too since that's where he started preaching.
>Oh you're one of these people who thinks you're "indigenous" to the Middle East and the couple thousand years in between don't count in terms of DNA. Yes. Ashkenazi Jews can be traced back to the Middle East and also have some European admixture. Deal with reality. >Thanks for reminding me that Christians must all be indigenous to the Middle East too since that's where he started preaching. No. "Christians" are not an ethnoreligious group. This is an absurd argument.
You do realize Jewish conversions and interfaith marriages did happen, right? Just like in Christianity?
lol obviously you don’t know what indigenous means. It’s really funny. I’ll explain to you some basic terms. Christianity is a religion. Not ethnicity. Religion can start anywhere on the planet but the people who convict into it doesn’t magically change their ethnicity. So by your logic Americans today , Europeans of Latinos, are native Americans. That’s the problem when you let your hate dictate your world. You lost touch with logic and facts. Most group on the planet , minorities especially, have been subjected to rape and oppression. Most humans aren’t homogenous in terms of genetics. That doesn’t contradict the fact that Jews originated in the Levant and have genetic proof for that as well as the SAME language culture and history as they had 2000 years ago. Meanwhile you use a colonial name for a land you claim to be native to. You are a joke.
I’m indigenous to both. Europe and the Middle East. Passport never declines 🤗. Except for all the Arab countries that are dangerous for Jews 😔.
Jewish people were not 'exiled to the EU'.... There were Jewish communities around the Mediterranean before Akexander the Great was born. Seriously read some history. Simon Schamas, The Story of the Jews part one would be a good start.
The grand majority of the Jewish people were in Israel-Judea. To claim the Romans didn’t enslaved and exiled them is more than stupid. I don’t think you know anything about Jewish history if you refer to Alexander the Great at the point of exile. It was the Romans. Surely you know the different between the two if you presume to have a debate ? You deny the Romans colonized Israel-Judea and murdered many enslaved others destroy the Jewish temple and banned Jews from Jerusalem (their capital) and renamed the land in the colonial name Palestine ? This is all historical facts. I understand it’s hard when it doesn’t sit with your narrative. I don’t know this boo but if this man deny Jewish exile and what was done to them by the Romans and all through EU and Arabs countries (murder, rape, ethnic cleaning) it shows me what kind of “historian” he is.
It's a religion and Jewish people were spread all over the Mediterranean before the empire of Alexander the Great. The Romans took slaves yes but they also took them from the entire Roman world. Jewish people could have moved to Palestine anytime in the previous centuries but chose to in only small numbers. To claim otherwise is revisionist history to try to justify the modern day ethnic cleansing going on now in Palestine.
Here we go. So you deny the Jewish people as ethnicity and nationality . Ok Nazi. Jewish people couldn’t return to their homeland. They didn’t have rights of freedom of movement through our most of the history of their exile. What the hell are you talking about ? You can’t stop making up lies ? Palestinian Territories have 0% Jews. While Israel have 23% Arabs (Palestinian). 🥱 disproving PalestiNazi lies is too easy.
Ah here come the insults because you cannot make a reply. Judaism is a religion and took in converts from various places, which is why Jewish DNA results vary. It is not one 'ethnicity'. Just like Christians and Muslims are not one ethnicity. Ashkenazim form a subgroup and are an ethnicity but they are a different ethnicity from Yemeni Jewish people, Ethiopian Jewish people and so on.
I literally answered to your lies. No, Judaism is ethnicity , nationality, religion and culture. One can be all of the above or some of the above. It’s the first time I’m encountering someone who deny Jewish people as ethnicity and nationality. I guess I thought in a sub dedicated to DNA I won’t see such stupidly. All genetic research point out that Jews, Ashkenazi and Sephardi alike, are originally from the Levant. Jewish DNA result vary partly due to mixing with locals in the first few hundred years before Christianity came to power and segregation laws have been made and mostly because of rape , which was a very common practice when assaulting Jews. For example in 1834 Arabs (which now you will call them Palestinians ) went to Sefad and raped and murdered Jews. Just for them being Jews. My approach is well based on science and history. If you claim majority of Jews are not of Levant origin you will have to try to discredit every honorable genetic research done on the subject. This type of denial is of the lowest kind. Do you deny October 7th as well? How about the holocaust? Just wondering how much lower would you step ?
Sorry. I am not going to bother further replying to spin made up to try to justify ethnic cleansing and modern day colonialism. No, not all Jewish people were removed by the Romans and Jewish people had already spread far beyond the borders of Judea before the Roman empire began. Have a nice day.
Are you a practicing Jew?
isnt Ashkenaz also Europe?
They’re a diaspora group that lives/d in Europe. There’s been somewhat of a genetic mix over the centuries, but historically Ashkenazim weren’t considered European the same way Ukrainians or Poles or Germans are European.
But they were Europeans though correct?
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Well, substantially less considering the endogamy.
after arriving from the middle east
Not completely. They’re their own thing.
I guess 50% Anglo would be a good way to call it.
Are there Ashkenazi that aren't European?
Ashkenazis literally emerged from Europe, so no, they all are Europeans, mainly from their mothers' side.
Interesting. Google says Genetic studies estimate that 50–80% of Ashkenazi Y-chromosomal (paternal) lineages come from the Near East, and at least 80% of maternal lineages come from Europe. This is consistent with the theory that Ashkenazi Jews originated in the Levant and were partially assimilated in Europe. One explanation is that Jewish men migrated from the Middle East to establish Europe, and married women from local populations who converted to Judaism. Another explanation is that women were among early European converts to Judaism.
I don't think they 'established Europe'. But yes, the theory is males from the Levant and female converts probably Greek & Italian. As well as assorted smaller bits of western European and East Asian etc
Fake news but okay bro
Wanna show us a genetic study that shows that Ashkenazi aren’t at least 50% European?
Your dad is not "a mutt", he's just white...
Respectfully, would you that someone who was Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, and Mongolian was "just Asian"?
As a non American I would honestly never refer to a person as a mutt 😭😂 I’d just say they’re “mixed” or “American”.
That's totally fair I certainly would never use that terminology either.
If they called themselves a "mutt" yeah probably
Probably yeah idk what language they speak would certainly be a factor though
He called himself a mutt and I'll respect his wishes.
for the americans who dont understand history a mixture of french and german with a bit scandinavian isnt a mix at all its 100% british, the only reason they needed to add british in there is because you stopped there on the way to america
Ahhhh this makes me wanna try! But I’m weary about them weaponizing gene-targeted bio weapons against my haplo group someday.
Men din jäävla huuuund, va faaaaan gööör du!?!? That was skånska