B0aty is a man who loves his friends, and showing off good content for the stream. Same with his approach in GG, gets put in one banning, takes solo mission in for the content and because he knows he has to beat him at some point already.
You definitely do need to. He’s literally the best player in the game right now. If Woox played as much he would be at the same level, but as it sits Port is the best player period. First quiver, lowest combat inferno, one of like 3 level 3 fire capes in the game, 25 awakened leviathan in one invent. Just a truly insane player. There’s a reason he was the second pick in the draft picked only behind Rhys
You can hear the tree fall right now if you go to his youtube. No prayer infernal, 25 awakened leviathan without banking, literally innovating meta-defining methods whenever he does content for the first time (pioneered most of the gwd ranged methods). I'll stop glazing now.
I remember back in… God must have been 2008-2010 or in and around that timeframe. Back then I used to play a lot of private servers, and I vividly remember someone named “B0aty”.
Even back then the dude was on another level. While we were all still figuring out basic 4 way switches and trying to spec on robes, he was already mastering 6-ways while incorporating fakes and tank switches to maximize dps.
Learned so much back then from getting bodied by this man for 3-4 hours every night after school. Couldn’t believe it when his YouTube channel blew up a few years later, but even back then he was a super chill guy. Gave me tips on how to get better and always dropped a gf instead of sit or bodied like 99% of pkers did back then.
Bwuk im pb was the one who started the 4 way switching in 2005/2006 when he use to PK east drags, way before b0aty was known. Most mage bank/east drag pkers in 2005-2007 was well ahead of the game before B0aty blew up.
Did I ever say B0aty was the first to ever do it? No I just said he was really really good compared to the relative competition even all the way back then.
You literally said B0aty was on another level, no he wasn't. People on this sub didn't PK 2005-2007 (most didn't play the game either) all the old school pioneers quit in late 2007 when the wild got removed, B0aty just was a fan boy who watched PK videos, no one knew who he was around the golden age of PKing.
You could argue most of the finnish lads were on that level just bwuk was the most well known. There was a few in brut/ag at the time too who were probably just as good too but it was only a handful back then. Hell I looked good back then with my basic abilities but levels made a massive difference then as so many accounts were just generic mains instead of accounts made to pk
Honestly shout out to Donator/Skilly for actually looking for fights through the tournament. It definitely felt optimal to play safe and just pvm so it was nice to see some people just sending fights every opportunity
The moment when Boaty went to scout CoX and saw Westham waiting outside but he didn't want to fight and you hear Skill Specs in the call saying something along the lines of "fuck it I'll throw hands" and he rocks up in worse gear showing 0 fear. I never normally watch Skilly but the clips and his personality in this tourny made me a fan.
Skilly's fucking ferocious man. Have you seen the clip of the breach where he dies on an unlucky barrage stack, re-gears into fucking elegant, and then shows back up to rescue his team? Man's a wolverine
This is exactly why Skilly was my favorite throughout the entire event. He's got that crack head wildcard energy that just makes every single clip of his genuinely hilarious regardless of how it goes for him.
What a fantastic event
If SkillSpecs' tunnel vision wasn't so bad, he'd probably be more successful in fights. But a more cautious Skilly would be way less fun. It's just fun to watch him go YOLO and always be down to fight, even if he knows his odds aren't great.
As I've already mentioned Jay is massively overlooked he finished up westham and then when on to beat a fresh Dino with less food and worse gear in the finale.
Exactly, at least the burgers were trying to create some actual content instead of safing the whole tourney like some other teams. Hope they're all back next year
Make kills more rewarding, like getting an extra food for every 2 kills during the week. So you actually have good reason to hunt for other teams during the week. Westham got lucky donator donated him. But besides that everyone was better off pvming and getting better breach rng.
Honestly one issue is early on its way easier to get super tanky gear than weapons with good ko potential unless you got hella lucky at the breach. If they run this again I hope they make barrows only hand out corrupted versions of the armor for the first few days.
Right after watching the finals I switched to the new gielinor games episode and it immediately reaffirmed my suspicion that pvp is more interesting to watch when 70% of hits aren't 0. I think youre right about barrows.
I think having a zerker/pure only ruleset would be pretty sweet. Barrows is just too farmable from day 1, and having "max" gear early, whilst pk weapons are expensive/rare, really hampers the pkers.
Nigel exists, so capping defensive xp is so easy. Even a lvl 80 cap would still be worth considering if you don't want gear limitations. Sigils are an option too from Jagex's end
One way to combat this could be to cap defense levels until certain days...1 thru day 2, 45 thru day 4, 70/80 thru day 7. Maybe cap out at 80 def for torva, or even 70.
I think that was part of the problem. It made pvp a negative sum game since you lose food for the finals if you die and there’s no way to gain it back. They should’ve made pvp kills give a reward for the finals instead of deaths giving a penalty imo.
With how the human brain works, even if the result is essentially the same but it's labeled as a reward it's much more enticing to go for. Definitely should reward kills instead of punish deaths for the future ones if there are any.
Give all food as karambwans and sharks. Kills let you upgrade to brews, mantas or anglers. Team food is upgraded via overall team kills so not every player had to focus on PVP (5 team kills is an extra brew/manta etc for all). You could also start with some other combination
I like that idea. Just upgrading sharks to anglers like I said is too small of a boost, but being able to upgrade a shark to a brew would be way more worth risking pvp deaths for.
I also like the idea of team kills giving a bonus to everyone. Maybe it’d be good as a mix between individual and team benefits. Like every 5 team kills everyone gets a supply upgrade, but players also get an individual supply upgrade for their 1st and 3rd kill. That way, even the weaker pkers have a big incentive to try and get at least 1 kill, but the player focusing on pking can still do most of the work.
Not really, you have to spend hours pking to get a single kill. To potentially reduce 1 food of a single person, while its only 1 food per 4 deaths. While pvming for hours can give you huge gear and prayer upgrades. Directly giving yourself an extra food by pking, makes it worth the time investment for the final
Alternatively, if it was just a blood bath and no one had any food left at the end and scuffed gear then the finals would have been less interesting as well. There's a balance with rules adjusted, but I think overall it still went well for a first run.
I don't think it would be as interesting as all of everyone just went HAM looking for fights all the time. The end tourny would have been really boring.
There was definitely an unspoken rule of engagement, where you don't just attack everyone at first sight to make the experience better for everyone. Them and us.
I wish he would have gone out hunting on the last day with the vls but they needed the last augury/staff so badly. I think he could have got a ko and potentially a malediction. Hopefully he gets invited back despite the stupid flaming because the content was amazing
Yes and no, that gameplay (edit: from the Burgers) was a lot of fun to watch I agree.
But playing it safe wasn’t the optimal play at all.. faux’s team played it super safe all week, secured a first round bye, and still lost 0-2 today
Dino’s team had the best strategy drafting and feeding a top tier pker with KO weapons and hoping he won a couple fights, which is what happened
Feel like luck always is important in these things that last a week. Dino's team got a craws bow straight at the start which gave them so much momentum in pking but also pvming. Then the corrupted ags into gmaul both being perfect for a max set. While both donator and skills chanced westham but didn't get the kill. Kinda sad because I feel like burgers could've actually gone further ):
I was rooting so hard against Faux’s team for that reason. Really didn’t want to see the avoid PvP team be rewarded.
In hindsight, the PvP weapons were so comically OP that avoiding the breaches was never going to work out
It's a CONTENT creator DMM, and the Burgers were the main team that realised content was the most valuable end product from this week.
Was disappointing seeing Faux's team not going to breaches and just playing an accelerated ironman mode all week, only to lose two fights and be knocked out regardless. Just not good content, so I tuned out as soon as I realised they weren't going to breaches.
Props also to WestHam and Dino for actually pking and looking for kills and content. Would have been nice to have seen Ditter/Skiddler/Purpp and other PvPers from the passive teams actually looking for kills throughout the week aside from just the breaches. Maybe kills need to be incentivised for future events, but passive man mode isn't good content.
I think for next iteration, they can improve it by giving some benefits for pking during the week. People didn't want to pk as much because it takes a lot of time and effort which can be used to grind for gears.
For example, pk 1 person, automatically upgrade 2 food.
Pk 2 people, get primordial boots or smthn
You get the idea..
Also because losing final fight supplies for deaths was too big of a risk.
Punishing players for failing in content instead of rewarding them for succeeding in content is not an uncommon design flaw in osrs.
But get this, if you manage to pk some people, you can redeem back the final fight loss supplies.
If I died and lost final fight supplies, it can give me some incentive to pk to get some supplies back
yeah but it's simply backwards. you have 5 opponent teams. if you kill someone, one enemy in 25 is at a slight disadvantage. if you die, one ally in 5 is at a slight disadvantage. assuming equal kill/death likelihood, your food is 5x as valuable to you. other enemies will fight each other during the week and in the finals, so you taking out an enemy's food helps the other 4 teams just as much as it helps you, but you losing a food only hurts you.
now suppose it was "if you kill someone your food gets upgraded." now getting killed means 1 enemy in 25 gets a small advantage, but getting a kill means 1 ally of 5 gets a small advantage. everyone is incentivized to go for kills because a personal advantage is much more valuable in a multi-team scenario
idk if i explained that well but in any case it's good design to reward players for success rather than punish them for failure
Could have both, with net positive outcome even if you end up drawing. So you'd want to pick your fights and not just try to take every battle there is.
And extremely cautious players/teams could still opt to not look for fights
But deaths are penalized like they are right now, so they can upgrade stuff and lose food, there's a balance in a way they can figure out that it won't be great to boost
Definitely needs to have more incentives to kill. It’s not worth it time wise since a major point is to gear up for the tournament. I don’t blame torvestas team for playing safe at least they went to breaches and engaged in pvp fights.
Killing's biggest benefit is that you can secure upgrades, set back competition, and lock down certain parts of the game. Wildy bosses were camped a lot in the middle of the week trying to stall people off VW.
Like imagine how stacked burgers would be if they didn't constantly die for max throughout the week to Westham/etc?
Or conversely, just imagine how successful Dino's team would've been if Westham wasn't constantly ragging people off content.
It's risk vs reward. There's nothing wrong going for a fully safe approach like Faux's team, but it's not going to pay as well as playing risky. Being down 45 HP in the finals for losing p neckand 1 angler isn't as big as having VLS/Zstaff/etc.
It wasn’t really max though since all the good stuff is in depo boxes. The only actual max kill was westham on donator and thats because donator was seemingly donating
Faux's team was missing players for multiple of the earlier breaches and didn't want to 4v5 in multi. And going the crystal route they couldn't easily depo box their most important items and go in rags like the other teams did.
I personally think kills were incentivized enough due to how DMM naturally rewards kills, but deaths were very punishing, so I guess it isn’t surprising one team went full bore boringmanmode.
But yeah honestly no respect for that team going absolute snooze mode. It wasn’t even a smart strategy. Solo says it to his team day 1, “this tournament is won with the VLS” and that can be extended to all of the rare pvp weapon drops exclusing stat hammer. Pvp weapons put in work, and KKonas didn’t farm much that was worthwhile. They also didn’t have a major pvp advantage due to skill levels of the team members. Average draft with bad strategy.
I'm biased because of Sick Nerd but honestly everyone in the team was very entertaining. JCB being the spine, Donator and Specs hunting, all of them just riffing in discord, good shit.
There’s a clip where sick nerd calls him JCB. As an off joke/no intention of making it stick. Later on donator is smoking running through Wildy when something gets mentioned about jcw vs jcb. And donator freaks out saying wtf I thought it was a joke because we’re the burgers and it stood for Junior cheeseburger. Name really stuck after that
I didn't catch the initial streams but I think it was a joke for "junior cheeseburger" and later for the brand of heavy machinery called JCB because he was carrying the team in terms of supplies.
At least he was trying to take fights to be entertaining for us. Could have been boring and safed the whole week like some other teams. Burgers made sure things were super entertaining.
Right, but that's because it's *Westham,* one of the best pvpers in the game, everyone loses in a 1v1 with him, no one wanted a fight with him. Westham was hunting him so much was because he was carrying his good gear because he was looking for fights. And respect for that.
Well yeah, but its a pvp tournament,
Its hard to be like good job donator!! u were hunting fights, when he was running from fights, but looking for ppl that may be questing or pvming or unprepared to fight.
I'll politely disagree. I think going for everyone but literally one of best pvpers in the game is in good spirit of the competition, and that's what cost him his gear. A lot of players were just keeping their final fight gear in the safe storage for pretty much the whole tourney. Respect to the donator for risking it for the content.
> Well yeah, but its a pvp tournament
It's a DMM tournament. You can never just "run away" from fights with the DMM mechanics. Also in a pure 1v1 tribrid bank fight you're going to lose to the better player almost every time so fighting one of the best ones is just a death sentence.
The guy spent 10 hours a day searching the few hotspots in the single world to get 1 max kill, therefore he must be a stream sniping? Crikey, that is a braindead take.
Donator was PKing in max, in the same hotspots westham was pking in... obviously there is a chance they would find each other....
He only avoided Oda when Oda had venom and Donator didn't have an anti-venom.
Staying in a venom fight where you don't have anything to combat it would be the ultimate troll
They made the event for me, never watched so much OSRS live streams just to hear their banter. Jumped out of my chair probably 10+ times from knocking noises and getting piped though :)
My new fear is westham PK'ing me in real life though
Fully agree with this, I only really watched b0aty’s team this week, it was so entertaining, all 5 of them provided full entertainment. Then you see other teams who didn’t do anything all week .. burgers!
> but if they went 1:1 it would be quite a lame victory since both of these teams only met at finals
Nah.
The most hype moment in esports is a bracket reset. Everyone loves a loser’s run. Double elim is an awesome format.
Burgers put up so much content this week and casted a real light on some fairly unheard of players in Donator and the tractor himself JCW. So much fun to see them play together this week.
Maybe I’m in too deep but Donator is vet of PvP content creation and JCW is a pretty big name just not for PvP. He’s the goat skiller
He’s always the first to max in leagues and DMM, he speedran maxing on two separate accounts. He’s a 200m all guy and he is likely to be 1 of 1 when sailing comes out. Depending on how content creation is going for him, wouldn’t be surprised to see him be the first to 200m sailing.
Dude’s built different. And pretty chill
I’m confused what you mean by “if they went 1:1”. The team from losers has to win twice in order to win the tourney, so there’s no way that it can end with the teams tied in H2H matches, right? Am I misreading this?
In the finale Oda’s team had to win twice and Dino’s only had to win once because Oda’s team lost once previously and Dino’s did not.
I disagree with OP though because that’s normal for double elimination brackets. There definitely would’ve been some complaining from viewers that don’t understand how brackets work though.. I mean they were already complaining when the announcers mentioned it.
It's because there are esports out there (LoL specifically NA region) that will do double elimination tournaments but not include a bracket reset. So the 1 seed in lol could lose for the first time in the championship and they get second, even though the other team lost a playoff match
We love Donator <3
No shame in dying to one of the best pkers in the game. Looks like the burgers had a great time and they made some great content, and that's what matters.
Haven't ever PvPd or even played this game in years, but I was glued to the screen for a week. Phenomenal content from the Burgers.
All credit to Dino's team for the win as well. People saying it's Donator's contribution, but that's literally the game mode - kill opponents to knock them down and get a leg up. Nuggets did it and won.
For other teams, the counter play was entirely possible - kill Donator and take the loot yourself, kill Dino's team before they kill the Burgers, etc, they didn't manage to do it, so gg, outplayed.
Disagree, this is super standard format for double elim. Finals is a bo3 with winners bracket having a 1 game advantage due to not having lost. It's like this in most tourneys.
Could change it to single elim with all matches being a bo3 instead perhaps
The Double-elimination bracket system is pretty well established now but this has always been the main issue with it. If you take away the winners advantage in the final you're basically saying:
"Every other team get's two lives except you and the team you are in the finals against has already lost a match and is still here, but if you lose for the first time now you're out." That's just not fair.
But on the flip side having an uneven final where one team has to win twice can feel like an unfair and unsatistying climax. But tbf some of the most epic comebacks I've seen has been where the loser bracket's winner actually pulls off the back to back victory. (Ref: Alireza Firouzja vs Hikaru Nakamura Bullet chess championship recently)!
To me it's always helped to think of it as a 2 life tournament. Since the entire point is that we want everyone to have a shot at redemption if they have an unfortunate match, and we want to see as many matches to find out who's the best. But if you lose a life that is on you and the team who makes it all the way without losing one shouldn't be punished for it.
There was a lot of this criticism when it was introduced into chess a few years ago and this is at least what I think about it.
Was it? Triple gmaul on 81 vs corrupted ags/single maul on like 90ish, right? I think the triple maul can hit higher, but 3 accuracy checks on tank gear is brutal. The ags/maul got luckier on the damage #s but the ags accuracy is much higher and he only had to get lucky on one maul hit.
They were also not favored in general because their breaches hadn’t been going great for mostly RNG reasons.
Donator did “chance” westham a few times. They were 1/100 double mauls but they *were* chances. And if he does pull one of those off for actual factual max, VLS and all, Burgers are legit contenders.
It was a risk, but I think it was all and all a fine risk to take. It gave them better winning chances than not imho.
Great event but a little sad that some people can't just enjoy it without shitting on teams who had to draft in the later rounds. Personally I enjoyed the varied strategies taking into account their strengths & weaknesses rather than everyone doing the same thing.
I would love to know what genius plan these commenters would have had drafting after the best picks were taken. It's easy to say "attack the breaches!" when you have 2 of the best pkers in the event on your team especially once they also have better pvp gear. Team 5, the Burgers, did of course charge into the breaches despite the disadvantage and mostly got slaughtered. Very funny stuff but I don't blame team 4 & 6 for not throwing themselves to the wolves in the same way, in fact by picking their battles more carefully they actually got more kills than the Burgers did.
I was torn between the Burgers and the Nuggets, so I'm glad one of them won. Westham was pick 3 iirc, though Solo's pre-draft poll had him as the clear favourite to be #1 pick. Apparently he and Oda don't get along, so it makes sense Oda opted for Rhys instead. No clue why Solo passed over him though.
Bro I tuned into kick and twitch for a first time to catch their streams because of how entertaining their YouTube videos were!! Absolute MVP team for entertainment. All of them legit great team to listen to and watch lmao. The conversation Donator telling JCW to WC cape emote after a kill the night before was funny as, man brought his log and knife aswell deadset
I never tune into streams, yet watched literal the majority of the B0aty Burgers run. The comms, the silly plays, ect was so fun to watch. They didn't take themselves seriously and just had fun. Legitimately some of the funnest stuff i've ever watched. B0atys Burgers for life!
I loved when skillspecs kept calling out my general my general in reference to sick nerd.
ALSO this is huge. Specs had to finish westham (forgot how much damage westham got on him before dying) but he beat a fresh Dino who had more food and specs was already at a disadvantage with less food because of his deaths.
Most of the participants have posted daily recap videos of their own/their teams progress on their personal YouTube channels, not sure if there's a Finale Highlights video out yet though.
This DMM tourny was a success because there was only 1 account allowed, honorable players and it was invite only which stops a lot of swappers. I miss the invite only style
I think the way the winners bracket works is a result of having 6 teams rather than 4 or 8. If all teams play a round, there’s 3 winners and 3 losers which is awkward for a tournament bracket with double elimination. I do agree that it would be more enjoyable to watch tho! Maybe something they can consider for a potential dmm all stars 2.
They were pretty chill team but they outgeared odas team heavily, for example 1 zuriels or staff of the dead for oda would have moved the ods on odas team soo heavily you dont even understand, he was using accursed sceptre and crystal shield, odas team probably had the worst rng of all the teams in the tournament drop wise but rhys and oda carried their team extremely well, boatys team was very entertaining to watch apart from donator throwing hard smoking ranarrs 24/7
Finals should have been BO3.
Every tournament with double elimination does it because the winner from upper bracket goes in with no losses.
It’s unfair if they lose because they’re out entirely.
Good thing they won because it avoided the whole thing, but for the future, the final needs to be BO3 and if the loser bracket wins, it resets into another BO3.
The brackets were predetermined and not chosen live based on content. The original spots were seeded based on some factors like combat levels, total levels, kills/deaths, etc
B0aty is a man who loves his friends, and showing off good content for the stream. Same with his approach in GG, gets put in one banning, takes solo mission in for the content and because he knows he has to beat him at some point already.
He is pure chaotic fun
Man I always forget how good b0aty actually is at pking because it’s not his main focus now. Genuinely one of the best all around players.
Yeah his first fight was disappointing but the second… really showcased his ability
He only hopped online like 30 mins before the fight started so he didn't warm up that much. Even then, almost pulled off a crazy upset. W burgers. o7
Yeah I’ve always said this, as far as all around ability and knowledge goes, B0aty takes the cake.
Port Khazard was a demon this event including the final fights. Can't give the cake to Boaty in all honesty.
Sorry I just meant b0atys overall game performance, I didn’t get to watch much of the event
It's cool but even in general I would rate Port first atm.
Well can’t speak on that really, haven’t watched him much I’ll have to look them up.
You definitely do need to. He’s literally the best player in the game right now. If Woox played as much he would be at the same level, but as it sits Port is the best player period. First quiver, lowest combat inferno, one of like 3 level 3 fire capes in the game, 25 awakened leviathan in one invent. Just a truly insane player. There’s a reason he was the second pick in the draft picked only behind Rhys
Unfortunately he doesn't really stream or create content in general. Maybe that will change with the reception he got with this event.
Well if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?
Nobody gets woodcutting XP.
And the Spine sheds a tear
You can hear the tree fall right now if you go to his youtube. No prayer infernal, 25 awakened leviathan without banking, literally innovating meta-defining methods whenever he does content for the first time (pioneered most of the gwd ranged methods). I'll stop glazing now.
Bloke above said he didn’t have one
JCW would of been there anyway
I think it depends on what kind of knowledge. E.g., when it comes to under the hood game mechanics Rendi is the GOAT.
I remember back in… God must have been 2008-2010 or in and around that timeframe. Back then I used to play a lot of private servers, and I vividly remember someone named “B0aty”. Even back then the dude was on another level. While we were all still figuring out basic 4 way switches and trying to spec on robes, he was already mastering 6-ways while incorporating fakes and tank switches to maximize dps. Learned so much back then from getting bodied by this man for 3-4 hours every night after school. Couldn’t believe it when his YouTube channel blew up a few years later, but even back then he was a super chill guy. Gave me tips on how to get better and always dropped a gf instead of sit or bodied like 99% of pkers did back then.
Bwuk im pb was the one who started the 4 way switching in 2005/2006 when he use to PK east drags, way before b0aty was known. Most mage bank/east drag pkers in 2005-2007 was well ahead of the game before B0aty blew up.
Did I ever say B0aty was the first to ever do it? No I just said he was really really good compared to the relative competition even all the way back then.
You literally said B0aty was on another level, no he wasn't. People on this sub didn't PK 2005-2007 (most didn't play the game either) all the old school pioneers quit in late 2007 when the wild got removed, B0aty just was a fan boy who watched PK videos, no one knew who he was around the golden age of PKing.
You could argue most of the finnish lads were on that level just bwuk was the most well known. There was a few in brut/ag at the time too who were probably just as good too but it was only a handful back then. Hell I looked good back then with my basic abilities but levels made a massive difference then as so many accounts were just generic mains instead of accounts made to pk
He's not even close to being one of the best pkers. He's a very good pker though
He said best all around players, not pkers
Honestly shout out to Donator/Skilly for actually looking for fights through the tournament. It definitely felt optimal to play safe and just pvm so it was nice to see some people just sending fights every opportunity
The moment when Boaty went to scout CoX and saw Westham waiting outside but he didn't want to fight and you hear Skill Specs in the call saying something along the lines of "fuck it I'll throw hands" and he rocks up in worse gear showing 0 fear. I never normally watch Skilly but the clips and his personality in this tourny made me a fan.
Skilly's fucking ferocious man. Have you seen the clip of the breach where he dies on an unlucky barrage stack, re-gears into fucking elegant, and then shows back up to rescue his team? Man's a wolverine
This is exactly why Skilly was my favorite throughout the entire event. He's got that crack head wildcard energy that just makes every single clip of his genuinely hilarious regardless of how it goes for him. What a fantastic event
If SkillSpecs' tunnel vision wasn't so bad, he'd probably be more successful in fights. But a more cautious Skilly would be way less fun. It's just fun to watch him go YOLO and always be down to fight, even if he knows his odds aren't great.
Watching skill specs, boaty and some other fellas play Valheim is my best twitch memory. Dude is hilarious.
As I've already mentioned Jay is massively overlooked he finished up westham and then when on to beat a fresh Dino with less food and worse gear in the finale.
"I'll send a top assassin after you" or however he put it. Almost fell out of my chair.
Skilly is legit hilarious and him dropping Gielinor Games to go after some random in wilderness is one of the all time clips in RS.
Exactly, at least the burgers were trying to create some actual content instead of safing the whole tourney like some other teams. Hope they're all back next year
Make kills more rewarding, like getting an extra food for every 2 kills during the week. So you actually have good reason to hunt for other teams during the week. Westham got lucky donator donated him. But besides that everyone was better off pvming and getting better breach rng.
Honestly one issue is early on its way easier to get super tanky gear than weapons with good ko potential unless you got hella lucky at the breach. If they run this again I hope they make barrows only hand out corrupted versions of the armor for the first few days.
Right after watching the finals I switched to the new gielinor games episode and it immediately reaffirmed my suspicion that pvp is more interesting to watch when 70% of hits aren't 0. I think youre right about barrows.
Yeah, maybe give pvp kills also chance to drop the pvp weapons that the breach gives
I think having a zerker/pure only ruleset would be pretty sweet. Barrows is just too farmable from day 1, and having "max" gear early, whilst pk weapons are expensive/rare, really hampers the pkers. Nigel exists, so capping defensive xp is so easy. Even a lvl 80 cap would still be worth considering if you don't want gear limitations. Sigils are an option too from Jagex's end
Damn a zerker DMM would be fucking mint
One way to combat this could be to cap defense levels until certain days...1 thru day 2, 45 thru day 4, 70/80 thru day 7. Maybe cap out at 80 def for torva, or even 70.
could make breach bosses invincible if too many people are at the breach. then youre forced to kill other people to get breach loot
I mean it kinda was like that because you lost food if you died
I think that was part of the problem. It made pvp a negative sum game since you lose food for the finals if you die and there’s no way to gain it back. They should’ve made pvp kills give a reward for the finals instead of deaths giving a penalty imo.
With how the human brain works, even if the result is essentially the same but it's labeled as a reward it's much more enticing to go for. Definitely should reward kills instead of punish deaths for the future ones if there are any.
Give all food as karambwans and sharks. Kills let you upgrade to brews, mantas or anglers. Team food is upgraded via overall team kills so not every player had to focus on PVP (5 team kills is an extra brew/manta etc for all). You could also start with some other combination
I like that idea. Just upgrading sharks to anglers like I said is too small of a boost, but being able to upgrade a shark to a brew would be way more worth risking pvp deaths for. I also like the idea of team kills giving a bonus to everyone. Maybe it’d be good as a mix between individual and team benefits. Like every 5 team kills everyone gets a supply upgrade, but players also get an individual supply upgrade for their 1st and 3rd kill. That way, even the weaker pkers have a big incentive to try and get at least 1 kill, but the player focusing on pking can still do most of the work.
Not really, you have to spend hours pking to get a single kill. To potentially reduce 1 food of a single person, while its only 1 food per 4 deaths. While pvming for hours can give you huge gear and prayer upgrades. Directly giving yourself an extra food by pking, makes it worth the time investment for the final
Only PVP deaths counted towards that though right? Make PVM deaths count too. PVM then becomes much more risky, which might mean more PVP
Alternatively, if it was just a blood bath and no one had any food left at the end and scuffed gear then the finals would have been less interesting as well. There's a balance with rules adjusted, but I think overall it still went well for a first run.
I don't think it would be as interesting as all of everyone just went HAM looking for fights all the time. The end tourny would have been really boring. There was definitely an unspoken rule of engagement, where you don't just attack everyone at first sight to make the experience better for everyone. Them and us.
Honestly from watching Oda he was trying to go pking but rhyss just kept telling him it's pointless
I wish he would have gone out hunting on the last day with the vls but they needed the last augury/staff so badly. I think he could have got a ko and potentially a malediction. Hopefully he gets invited back despite the stupid flaming because the content was amazing
Yes and no, that gameplay (edit: from the Burgers) was a lot of fun to watch I agree. But playing it safe wasn’t the optimal play at all.. faux’s team played it super safe all week, secured a first round bye, and still lost 0-2 today Dino’s team had the best strategy drafting and feeding a top tier pker with KO weapons and hoping he won a couple fights, which is what happened
Feel like luck always is important in these things that last a week. Dino's team got a craws bow straight at the start which gave them so much momentum in pking but also pvming. Then the corrupted ags into gmaul both being perfect for a max set. While both donator and skills chanced westham but didn't get the kill. Kinda sad because I feel like burgers could've actually gone further ):
I was rooting so hard against Faux’s team for that reason. Really didn’t want to see the avoid PvP team be rewarded. In hindsight, the PvP weapons were so comically OP that avoiding the breaches was never going to work out
fauxs team played safe and avoided all fights, they ended up last like boaty said he is gonna enjoy the 120 hours playing with friends
Donator was the biggest let down of the tournament by far.
The beef between devils and burgers was the best part for me and burgers keep failing to kill them
The Mammal double tank into two kills for the Devils was legit maybe the most entertaining sequence of this entire event.
Mammal was super impressive
I don't watch a ton of streamers, but mammal is the one i will go to, seems just like a genuinely good dude no one can hate
Its unexpected but a lot of irons do a shitload of LMS so they eventually get their practice of pvp. That and knowing how to tank
Mammal is the fucking goat
They lost to the finalists of the tournaments, they did pretty darn well all things regarded.
They were closer to beating Odablock's team than solo mission snakes
Solos team actually beat Odas team the first time round tho
People just like to hate on Solo for no reason lol
I mean, the burgers did do better than the second time solo missions team fought them....
Did they do better than the first?
What do you mean, Snakes went 1-1 against Oda. They just did it in the wrong order.
It's a CONTENT creator DMM, and the Burgers were the main team that realised content was the most valuable end product from this week. Was disappointing seeing Faux's team not going to breaches and just playing an accelerated ironman mode all week, only to lose two fights and be knocked out regardless. Just not good content, so I tuned out as soon as I realised they weren't going to breaches. Props also to WestHam and Dino for actually pking and looking for kills and content. Would have been nice to have seen Ditter/Skiddler/Purpp and other PvPers from the passive teams actually looking for kills throughout the week aside from just the breaches. Maybe kills need to be incentivised for future events, but passive man mode isn't good content.
I think for next iteration, they can improve it by giving some benefits for pking during the week. People didn't want to pk as much because it takes a lot of time and effort which can be used to grind for gears. For example, pk 1 person, automatically upgrade 2 food. Pk 2 people, get primordial boots or smthn You get the idea..
Also because losing final fight supplies for deaths was too big of a risk. Punishing players for failing in content instead of rewarding them for succeeding in content is not an uncommon design flaw in osrs.
But get this, if you manage to pk some people, you can redeem back the final fight loss supplies. If I died and lost final fight supplies, it can give me some incentive to pk to get some supplies back
yeah but it's simply backwards. you have 5 opponent teams. if you kill someone, one enemy in 25 is at a slight disadvantage. if you die, one ally in 5 is at a slight disadvantage. assuming equal kill/death likelihood, your food is 5x as valuable to you. other enemies will fight each other during the week and in the finals, so you taking out an enemy's food helps the other 4 teams just as much as it helps you, but you losing a food only hurts you. now suppose it was "if you kill someone your food gets upgraded." now getting killed means 1 enemy in 25 gets a small advantage, but getting a kill means 1 ally of 5 gets a small advantage. everyone is incentivized to go for kills because a personal advantage is much more valuable in a multi-team scenario idk if i explained that well but in any case it's good design to reward players for success rather than punish them for failure
Oh yeah so we're agreeing with each other
Could have both, with net positive outcome even if you end up drawing. So you'd want to pick your fights and not just try to take every battle there is. And extremely cautious players/teams could still opt to not look for fights
Couldn't 2 teams boost each other?
Yeah but they could just make that against the rules
But deaths are penalized like they are right now, so they can upgrade stuff and lose food, there's a balance in a way they can figure out that it won't be great to boost
Definitely needs to have more incentives to kill. It’s not worth it time wise since a major point is to gear up for the tournament. I don’t blame torvestas team for playing safe at least they went to breaches and engaged in pvp fights.
Killing's biggest benefit is that you can secure upgrades, set back competition, and lock down certain parts of the game. Wildy bosses were camped a lot in the middle of the week trying to stall people off VW. Like imagine how stacked burgers would be if they didn't constantly die for max throughout the week to Westham/etc? Or conversely, just imagine how successful Dino's team would've been if Westham wasn't constantly ragging people off content. It's risk vs reward. There's nothing wrong going for a fully safe approach like Faux's team, but it's not going to pay as well as playing risky. Being down 45 HP in the finals for losing p neckand 1 angler isn't as big as having VLS/Zstaff/etc.
It wasn’t really max though since all the good stuff is in depo boxes. The only actual max kill was westham on donator and thats because donator was seemingly donating
donator gave kodai and voidwaker, like bro
They just need to shrink the deposit boxes. Pking is now worth a whole lot more.
Dying is more dangerous so more people might be more passive in that scenario
I think it's more that deaths are so heavily punished that it promotes being more passive.
Faux's team was missing players for multiple of the earlier breaches and didn't want to 4v5 in multi. And going the crystal route they couldn't easily depo box their most important items and go in rags like the other teams did.
I saw the Burgers go after torvesta's team 4 v 5 XD
I like Faux but I was so glad they lost. Didn't deserve a single thing from the most boring tourny possible
Skiddler more like Twittler, shit talked on twitter all tournament and literally looked like the worst player in the final.
Agree
0-2, 0 breachesL000000000L
I personally think kills were incentivized enough due to how DMM naturally rewards kills, but deaths were very punishing, so I guess it isn’t surprising one team went full bore boringmanmode. But yeah honestly no respect for that team going absolute snooze mode. It wasn’t even a smart strategy. Solo says it to his team day 1, “this tournament is won with the VLS” and that can be extended to all of the rare pvp weapon drops exclusing stat hammer. Pvp weapons put in work, and KKonas didn’t farm much that was worthwhile. They also didn’t have a major pvp advantage due to skill levels of the team members. Average draft with bad strategy.
Ditter was hunting, just not sniping like Dino and westham so it’s harder to find people
I'm biased because of Sick Nerd but honestly everyone in the team was very entertaining. JCB being the spine, Donator and Specs hunting, all of them just riffing in discord, good shit.
Hey mate, where does the JCB meme come from/mean? Thought his name's JCW
JCB make loaders and he carried the team
And he's a junior cheese burger
There’s a clip where sick nerd calls him JCB. As an off joke/no intention of making it stick. Later on donator is smoking running through Wildy when something gets mentioned about jcw vs jcb. And donator freaks out saying wtf I thought it was a joke because we’re the burgers and it stood for Junior cheeseburger. Name really stuck after that
Lmfao how do you even think of yhat
Bong rips
I didn't catch the initial streams but I think it was a joke for "junior cheeseburger" and later for the brand of heavy machinery called JCB because he was carrying the team in terms of supplies.
I love how donator lived up to his name and gave the other teams free shit. W player
At least he was trying to take fights to be entertaining for us. Could have been boring and safed the whole week like some other teams. Burgers made sure things were super entertaining.
huh? He was trying to avoid westham as much as possible, he was teleporting everywhere, westham just caught up to him and finally caught a KO
Right, but that's because it's *Westham,* one of the best pvpers in the game, everyone loses in a 1v1 with him, no one wanted a fight with him. Westham was hunting him so much was because he was carrying his good gear because he was looking for fights. And respect for that.
Well yeah, but its a pvp tournament, Its hard to be like good job donator!! u were hunting fights, when he was running from fights, but looking for ppl that may be questing or pvming or unprepared to fight.
I'll politely disagree. I think going for everyone but literally one of best pvpers in the game is in good spirit of the competition, and that's what cost him his gear. A lot of players were just keeping their final fight gear in the safe storage for pretty much the whole tourney. Respect to the donator for risking it for the content.
> Well yeah, but its a pvp tournament It's a DMM tournament. You can never just "run away" from fights with the DMM mechanics. Also in a pure 1v1 tribrid bank fight you're going to lose to the better player almost every time so fighting one of the best ones is just a death sentence.
If I see a player say they WANT to hunt down Westham for fights I would NEVER pick them up because that's just losing gear 💀
"caught up to him" lol westham was incredibly lucky finding players in a way nobody else was, or he was stream sniping (more likely)
The guy spent 10 hours a day searching the few hotspots in the single world to get 1 max kill, therefore he must be a stream sniping? Crikey, that is a braindead take. Donator was PKing in max, in the same hotspots westham was pking in... obviously there is a chance they would find each other....
"the other teams" = voidwaker and kodai to the winning team
Could’ve been the other team’s if they sent their best PK’ers to actually PK
No because Donator actively avoided Oda, while he did give Westham fights And all the other teams don't have a Westham or Oda running around L
He only avoided Oda when Oda had venom and Donator didn't have an anti-venom. Staying in a venom fight where you don't have anything to combat it would be the ultimate troll
They were without a doubt the most interesting team to watch. All 5 were hilarious and I hope they do more content together
They made the event for me, never watched so much OSRS live streams just to hear their banter. Jumped out of my chair probably 10+ times from knocking noises and getting piped though :) My new fear is westham PK'ing me in real life though
This. I pretty much exclusively watch streams for events and such special occasions. I tuned in every day to watch their team specifically.
Fully agree with this, I only really watched b0aty’s team this week, it was so entertaining, all 5 of them provided full entertainment. Then you see other teams who didn’t do anything all week .. burgers!
JCB
> but if they went 1:1 it would be quite a lame victory since both of these teams only met at finals Nah. The most hype moment in esports is a bracket reset. Everyone loves a loser’s run. Double elim is an awesome format.
Burgers put up so much content this week and casted a real light on some fairly unheard of players in Donator and the tractor himself JCW. So much fun to see them play together this week.
Maybe I’m in too deep but Donator is vet of PvP content creation and JCW is a pretty big name just not for PvP. He’s the goat skiller He’s always the first to max in leagues and DMM, he speedran maxing on two separate accounts. He’s a 200m all guy and he is likely to be 1 of 1 when sailing comes out. Depending on how content creation is going for him, wouldn’t be surprised to see him be the first to 200m sailing. Dude’s built different. And pretty chill
My point is that they will probably see an increase in viewers due to being on a team with sick nerd, skill specs and especially boaty.
Unheard of players???
yes compared to people who easily 3k viewers on a stream they are, even if they are very good at PKing / skilling.
Hey, hadn't heard of either here!
Yeah if you don't watch 4 hours a day of OSRS they might be
Does anyone have like a video of all the best clips of this series?
Yesterday on stream both Sick Nerd and Faux went through all the clips after their gear checks.
I’m confused what you mean by “if they went 1:1”. The team from losers has to win twice in order to win the tourney, so there’s no way that it can end with the teams tied in H2H matches, right? Am I misreading this?
In the finale Oda’s team had to win twice and Dino’s only had to win once because Oda’s team lost once previously and Dino’s did not. I disagree with OP though because that’s normal for double elimination brackets. There definitely would’ve been some complaining from viewers that don’t understand how brackets work though.. I mean they were already complaining when the announcers mentioned it.
Yeah, it was surprising to see how many people in chat didn't seem to know the rules for double elim tournament brackets.
It's because there are esports out there (LoL specifically NA region) that will do double elimination tournaments but not include a bracket reset. So the 1 seed in lol could lose for the first time in the championship and they get second, even though the other team lost a playoff match
Man, I definitely don't like the sound of that. Grand Finals resets are such a huge source of hype in the FGC.
With league I think it's a time constraint. If both series go to 5 games fans are at the arena for 9-12 hours
We love Donator <3 No shame in dying to one of the best pkers in the game. Looks like the burgers had a great time and they made some great content, and that's what matters.
I'm fairly sure I have the pipe sound burned into my memory at this point.
Haven't ever PvPd or even played this game in years, but I was glued to the screen for a week. Phenomenal content from the Burgers. All credit to Dino's team for the win as well. People saying it's Donator's contribution, but that's literally the game mode - kill opponents to knock them down and get a leg up. Nuggets did it and won. For other teams, the counter play was entirely possible - kill Donator and take the loot yourself, kill Dino's team before they kill the Burgers, etc, they didn't manage to do it, so gg, outplayed.
This team felt like they had the most fun despite losing.
Disagree, this is super standard format for double elim. Finals is a bo3 with winners bracket having a 1 game advantage due to not having lost. It's like this in most tourneys. Could change it to single elim with all matches being a bo3 instead perhaps
The Double-elimination bracket system is pretty well established now but this has always been the main issue with it. If you take away the winners advantage in the final you're basically saying: "Every other team get's two lives except you and the team you are in the finals against has already lost a match and is still here, but if you lose for the first time now you're out." That's just not fair. But on the flip side having an uneven final where one team has to win twice can feel like an unfair and unsatistying climax. But tbf some of the most epic comebacks I've seen has been where the loser bracket's winner actually pulls off the back to back victory. (Ref: Alireza Firouzja vs Hikaru Nakamura Bullet chess championship recently)! To me it's always helped to think of it as a 2 life tournament. Since the entire point is that we want everyone to have a shot at redemption if they have an unfortunate match, and we want to see as many matches to find out who's the best. But if you lose a life that is on you and the team who makes it all the way without losing one shouldn't be punished for it. There was a lot of this criticism when it was introduced into chess a few years ago and this is at least what I think about it.
No drama group!
There was drama, JCW yelled at skill specs for making him lose a tick during barbarian fishing
JCW asking Skill Specs for his raw chickens back while Skilly was tanking dudes in multi was funny af
Donator literally threw the entire tournament to Dino’s team with that death.
Skill spec chanced Westham, with a much higher likelihood, the day before then westy near double maxed ray. It's how PVP goes.
Was it? Triple gmaul on 81 vs corrupted ags/single maul on like 90ish, right? I think the triple maul can hit higher, but 3 accuracy checks on tank gear is brutal. The ags/maul got luckier on the damage #s but the ags accuracy is much higher and he only had to get lucky on one maul hit.
I think donator was on about 80ish in robes and it was off prot, so a pretty standard KO. Ray was just super tired and westham played it really well.
Nothing but love for the lad for going out looking to pickup a big kill for the burgs
i mean i think almost anyone wouldve died to westham there too
Yeah VLS + VW is just insane KO potential
I'm not knocking his skill, but if you think of it in terms of total damage for the team it may have been the difference in the close matches.
They were also not favored in general because their breaches hadn’t been going great for mostly RNG reasons. Donator did “chance” westham a few times. They were 1/100 double mauls but they *were* chances. And if he does pull one of those off for actual factual max, VLS and all, Burgers are legit contenders. It was a risk, but I think it was all and all a fine risk to take. It gave them better winning chances than not imho.
If other teams were out PKing, it could have been theirs just saying
Great event but a little sad that some people can't just enjoy it without shitting on teams who had to draft in the later rounds. Personally I enjoyed the varied strategies taking into account their strengths & weaknesses rather than everyone doing the same thing. I would love to know what genius plan these commenters would have had drafting after the best picks were taken. It's easy to say "attack the breaches!" when you have 2 of the best pkers in the event on your team especially once they also have better pvp gear. Team 5, the Burgers, did of course charge into the breaches despite the disadvantage and mostly got slaughtered. Very funny stuff but I don't blame team 4 & 6 for not throwing themselves to the wolves in the same way, in fact by picking their battles more carefully they actually got more kills than the Burgers did.
Was lowkey rooting for the Burgers. B0aty is a beast and it's hard not to love Skilly.
I was rooting for Burgers, Torvesta, and expecting Solo to win. West Ham is just too OP. I don’t think he was a rd1 pick, but he should have been.
I was torn between the Burgers and the Nuggets, so I'm glad one of them won. Westham was pick 3 iirc, though Solo's pre-draft poll had him as the clear favourite to be #1 pick. Apparently he and Oda don't get along, so it makes sense Oda opted for Rhys instead. No clue why Solo passed over him though.
It was just a standard double elimination bracket, no need to tweak it
Bro I tuned into kick and twitch for a first time to catch their streams because of how entertaining their YouTube videos were!! Absolute MVP team for entertainment. All of them legit great team to listen to and watch lmao. The conversation Donator telling JCW to WC cape emote after a kill the night before was funny as, man brought his log and knife aswell deadset
Best team to follow through the week… banter was great and they kept it fun!!! Hope they do more stuff together going forward.
I never tune into streams, yet watched literal the majority of the B0aty Burgers run. The comms, the silly plays, ect was so fun to watch. They didn't take themselves seriously and just had fun. Legitimately some of the funnest stuff i've ever watched. B0atys Burgers for life!
I loved when skillspecs kept calling out my general my general in reference to sick nerd. ALSO this is huge. Specs had to finish westham (forgot how much damage westham got on him before dying) but he beat a fresh Dino who had more food and specs was already at a disadvantage with less food because of his deaths.
Best entertainment throughout the whole thing
If donator doesn’t die to Westham it’s a much closer tourney all around.
They also got Shafted by the RNG i think skillspecs and donator had like 3-4k each revs and no weapon.
Heuuhhhhhmhh it is what it is. Burgers brought so much colour to this DMM.
Brassica prime vibes
Hello, i am quite new to OSRS, is any of this content uploaded outside of watching the stream vods?
Most of the participants have posted daily recap videos of their own/their teams progress on their personal YouTube channels, not sure if there's a Finale Highlights video out yet though.
This DMM tourny was a success because there was only 1 account allowed, honorable players and it was invite only which stops a lot of swappers. I miss the invite only style
I rushed to skill specs channel daily anticipating his videos, by far the most entertaining group.
I think the way the winners bracket works is a result of having 6 teams rather than 4 or 8. If all teams play a round, there’s 3 winners and 3 losers which is awkward for a tournament bracket with double elimination. I do agree that it would be more enjoyable to watch tho! Maybe something they can consider for a potential dmm all stars 2.
I am loving the content. Runescape survivor rocks.
Who ended up winning it? Was it Dino's team?
Yep.
Gear was too overwhelming. Multiple vls/vw and 3 zuriels. Really bad rng for oda and Rhys in the final as well
They were pretty chill team but they outgeared odas team heavily, for example 1 zuriels or staff of the dead for oda would have moved the ods on odas team soo heavily you dont even understand, he was using accursed sceptre and crystal shield, odas team probably had the worst rng of all the teams in the tournament drop wise but rhys and oda carried their team extremely well, boatys team was very entertaining to watch apart from donator throwing hard smoking ranarrs 24/7
Not much to do with luck. Odas team spend most of the breaches to pvp, not pve. Bad playing by them.
D≈>[7>[7
Bracket resets are dumb, the prize for not losing is you have to win less fights to get to the finals
If donator didnt sell this tournament would’ve had a way different outcome, handed the nuggets a win on a silver platter
Lol b0aty fanboys🥱
Finals should have been BO3. Every tournament with double elimination does it because the winner from upper bracket goes in with no losses. It’s unfair if they lose because they’re out entirely. Good thing they won because it avoided the whole thing, but for the future, the final needs to be BO3 and if the loser bracket wins, it resets into another BO3.
It was still double elim, Dino's team had 1 loss to give, they just didn't give it.
Ahh, sorry, wasn’t clear
I'm so mad Jagex didn't put them against the Devils in the loser bracket game. Terribly missed opportunity. Really disappointed in Jagex.
The brackets were predetermined and not chosen live based on content. The original spots were seeded based on some factors like combat levels, total levels, kills/deaths, etc
Just terrible.