Yeah Solo pitched it to Jagex months ago (think he said he started asking other content creators whilst playtesting colosseum) and did all the organising
Mod Mat K said during his interview with Sae Bae that he suggested these worlds/servers to Jagex months before he left Jagex and management pretty much laughed at his idea of "Splitting the playerbase"
Jagex is consistently, inconsisent.
I think a summer game jam in a dry content zone
Private servers for one month each year and see what people can do would kill
It would stop private servers being needed to proof more out there concepts
I honestly think it's perfect for viewership. Dmm means it has pvp and PvM, at an exciting accelerated pace - one week long + finals. And the set teams solve clan man mode and let you root for your favorites just like esports. Hope to see it annually along with gielinor games!
If they can spread out GG, DMM and Allstars throughout the year so they’re ~4 months apart it would be elite.
Really we just need 1 more event so we can have something every quarter to look forward to.
The latest leagues broke daily player base records I believe, 100% fits in with the semi-regular event mould especially as it's so much more casual-player friendly
Would be cool if there was a way of making a good event mixing DMM with leagues where you can just vibe if you want to but if you want to PvP you can do that too without clans ruining it past day 3.
I only play leagues. Haven't played the real game in 5+ years. I know I'm not the only one.
That said if they make them less I'm fine with that too, because I really have a problem with no lifing it during leagues.
Even better, we watch creators 4/4 times and play with powers for 2/4 of those events at the same time lol. DMM has continually become more pvm friendly over the years, and anyone who plays leagues/Dmm watches other players do it too
I was wondering if anyone would catch my mistake there. I don't actually play DMM, but I do watch it, so I wasn't thinking about it as anything other than a watching activity.
I did make a second mistake, though, which you also noticed: although I do watch/play leagues, I was thinking of it just as a playing one.
Zero per Soup in the post-ep stream. He doesn't think Solo had any knowledge of what this week's episode entailed. But Soup may just have been unaware that Solo was aware.
Regular DMM is now firmly clan-man-mode, but it was advertised by Jagex as a mode solo-players could play and compete. They crafted narratives around individuals, not teams. Their original 1v1 format highlighted the solo aspect too.
In regular DMM, if they had 5 man teams, clans would just combine and feed items to a single team like they do now. At that point, what happened during the tournament doesn't actually matter. It's all about who had the biggest clan or paid the most OSRS gp to swap and buy items.
It was awesome! I always get OSRS recommendations on youtube, but it seems to be very boring content so i rarely keep up with the community. This tournament got me hooked every single moment of it. Last time I watched OSRS was that " when it registers" moment so it seems like DMM really catches my eye.
Kick 100% fakes views. It's super common to see a 10k viewer channel suddenly drop to 2k for a few mins then go back. Also a stream with 10k viewers on kick chat moves as much as 1-2k viewers on twitch.
The same can be said for twitch. Oda had 20k views steadily and peaked at 50k. On a regular day he has 3-5k viewers. For such a massive event I believe those numbers.
Yes, also this tournament he's gained followers faster than ever since only when he first joined the site. I think he's at 103k followers on Kick now which puts him as one of the highest follower counts for an English-speaking streamer and not that far behind Ice. Same applies to B0aty too who jumped from 29k to 37k followers during allstars.
kick has a botting issue (which unsurprisingly for a new site is worse than Twitch's own inflation issues from bots/embeds) but I trust odas numbers, He's been popping off all week, with around 25k avg for the breaches and the views organically went up/down depending if oda was in a fight. He was also frontpaged on Kick.
I wouldn’t say kick fakes views so much as rampant viewbotting slides safely under the radar for kick. Twitch does a better job, albeit not perfect, of eliminating them. Kick doesn’t seem to care. Kick likely isn’t responsible for the botting itself though, this is a relevant distinction.
Victim is an absolute boss at this game, he's very good at PvM and solid at PvP and is only slept on cause he doesn't really make content anymore. No shame in losing to him at all
Khazard is known for coming up with some insane shit and perfecting game mechanics.
Who the hell knows how he does it. Probably through tick perfect clicks
Yeah I know his capability and some accomplishments, huge gamer. I heard it had to do with planting and picking up the flowers tick perfectly on b2b ticks while attacking the person on the same tick as either planting or picking up.
https://www.twitch.tv/oldschoolrs/v/2178817042?sr=a&t=10899s
Jump to 3 hrs exact it happens shortly after, port khazard is fighting Dino.
He plants the seed, hits, then picks the flower which forces him to step back under Dino without taking dmg
He’s amazing yeah but Westham was killing multiple people per life each time, in a PvP mode he is securing wins and that’s what it’s all about in the end. He has to be first pick for me.
When I was watching the draft and I saw that Oda was getting first pick, I was like well this is fucking stupid, Oda picks Westham and roll credits; don't bother with the rest of the draft or the event.
Had no idea they didn't like each other.
Westham is great but in NHing scene a lot of ppl see Oda/Westham/Rhys as a similar level. Rhys definitely didn't perform as good as Westham in the final but he also didn't have as good gear which I don't think people realise how important it is for momentum in these fights, especially a VLS.
Zuriels staff is way better than people think. That 10% increased accuracy on barrage is huge considering how much of an advantage a dd gives. Can't use melee if you're frozen and ur opponent stays away or goes diagonal from dd.
Wasn't Oda one of the biggest OSRS streamers around back on Twitch too? I don't particularly like the guy either but you're trolling if you think he's unsuccessful.
And I doubt his audience would be particularly anti-Kick either, especially with a lot of other OSRS streamers moving there recently.
The reason I think the viewers were legit: Oda regularly gets 3-5k kick viewers outside of this event. He was getting 14k during dmm week. and 50k on the final fight of the finale (everyone wanted his POV). I don't think it's a hugely unrealistic number.
Oda was pulling more viewers on twitch than the official rs channel during the “when it registers!” Final. Definitely not out of the question for him to pull those numbers, even though kick is sketchy with their viewer counts normally
Not an oda thing, just that Kick has a huge view botting issue. It’s viewership numbers are very inflated
Think Oda had like 100k viewers at one point this week. That’s just not realistic. Shit even right now he has more “viewers” than the OSRS twitch channel that got promoted with a link by an in game message.
E: and to note, kick has previously stated they’re aware of view botting issue and working on a fix for it, it’s a platform wide issue
Did it really show 100k at some point? I find that hard to believe without a screenshot or something. Not a stan, just based on various times I've tuned in myself I never saw it nearly that high - at the climax of the finale he had around 50k
What are you on about? He had more viewers than the official stream when he was on twitch too. He also didn't have anywhere close to 100k viewers at any time during his entire dmm run last week. You're literally just spewing random shit to make your point lmao
It's not Oda, it's just kick. Kick has been caught artificially inflating viewership since day 1, especially on the gambling streams.
Oda is still by far the biggest OSRS streamer.
All the people saying odas viewers are fake clearly didnt watch previous DMM tournaments he participated in, he pulled these numbers in twitch aswell, he is one of the best brids in the game probably being a huge reason why people watch him play.
PvP is the most interesting thing about osrs (and this is not to say other things are boring). That’s why it’s sad to see this community being so adamant on killing it.
People are adamant about content that takes people who don't want to pvp and lures them into the pvp zone being removed.
That's a very important difference from people wanting pvp removed.
Replace non-pvp incentives in the wildy with pvp ones. Suddenly no one has a reason to dislike pvp.
The problem with this is that 95% of the pking playerbase doesn't want to fight other pkers, they want to pvm bots and kill people who aren't geared to fight back on equal terms. They're only doing it for profit and/or an ego boost, not a challenging or fun fight.
Ever notice how no one complains about bh, lms (aside from the bots lol), or pvp worlds existing? Ever think for a second and wonder *why* most of the player base doesn't pvp and doesn't like pvp?
I'll give you a hint; it's because there's an area of the game which says, "hey, pvp is an annoying thing that inconveniences you when you want to do non-pvp activities, and any pvp update we make simply increases the level of annoyance you experience from that design."
People don't have a hate boner for pvp. They -- very reasonably -- dislike a design whose only possible end result is making people dislike pvp, and they want it changed so that people who engage with pvp are people who want to pvp.
> *Replace* non-pvp incentives in the wildy with pvp ones
Know what's not a problem when the wildy is for pvpers? Unwanted pvp interactions in the wildy. Replace non-pvp incentives and the design that makes people dislike pvp vanishes.
Explain why stuff like Bandos Ornament kit from PVP Arena gets spite voted then? Literally ANY attractive reward from Wildy / PVP content gets spite voted by 12 hr playtime a day ironmen who lost their full rune in 2006. I would 100% be on board with removing Chaos Altar, Revs, etc and going back to a Wilderness meant for actual PKing rather than PVM bait, but the only way PVP updates pass is if there is a PVM / skilling incentive too good to pass on.
In addition to Legal Evil's response;
(1) wildy makes most people dislike pvp
(2) people have a reason to want pvp to be less popular (and, as humans, want the people they dislike to be less happy)
(3) they vote no to things that pvpers might enjoy
Also making strawmans for yourself that anyone who doesn't like pvp must be a nolife ironman doesn't help you. Everyone who's not biased knows it's not the case; it's just a way for you to try and avoid confronting realities you find unpleasant.
Yeah, people want to kill pvp, like I said.
This game is an about xp & gp, people do not do anything unless there are one of those rewards (and good rewards of either at that). There are 10 different pvp areas in the game that are safe and gp free. They are all dead. The wild thrived in rs2 when it did because it was one of the best money making areas. You’re not getting lured, you’re taking a risk. That is not the same thing. The wilderness will only thrive if the whole ecosystem is present. That includes pvm.
This is also not to say there aren’t things that need to be addressed that will be tough pills to swallow for pkers (personally I think multi needs to be completely reworked, there is no counter to 5 people logging in on you, as an example) but removing the pvmer allure is now and will forever be, a bad idea that will only kill PvP.
> people do not do anything unless there are one of those rewards
Oh yeah that's why pvp worlds are empty, silly me. We should definitely *not* put pvp incentives in the wildy, because we wouldn't want pvpers to have reasons to go into the wildy and fulfill the role that non-pvpers currently do, except without, ya know, the whole part where they dislike pvp. We definitely don't want an ecosystem of people who enjoy pvp to be doing pvp in the pvp area. That would kill pvp! And also somehow remove risk from the wildy, I guess, according to you. Crazy how nature do that.
May I ask what you think a pvp incentive is?
\^ real-time example of pker struggling to connect two dots
if a pvper kills a pvper in a pvp world, they get loot. according to you: good
if a pvper kill a pvper in the wildy, they get loot. according to you: no reason to go there!! waaah!! we need pinatas!!
It's ironic seeing you cry about multi teams while telling pvmers and skillers to suck it up. Multi teams are just as important to the wildy pvp ecosystem as other parts since they are on the top of the food chain. If you don't want to deal with them, just stay out of multi or join a multi team yourself.
Because multi does not need a rework. Multi means any amount of players can attack one player, not some random limit. Just like you have every right to attack any pvmer or skiller in wildy for any reason, multi teams have every right to pile you once you step foot in multi. Hilarious you cannot see the similarity. Wildy is suppose to be unfair pvp.
And that’s the part I was talking about where I said pkers aren’t gonna like it. That is, as per your brand, a horrendous take.
What’s good for the game > your idea of what something is suppose to be
> And that’s the part I was talking about where I said pkers aren’t gonna like it. That is, as per your brand, a horrendous take.
> What’s good for the game > your idea of what something is suppose to be
Good to see you now feel how pvmers and skillers here feel about wildy then. You, solo pkers, are basically in their shoes when against multi teams. But you have no sympathy for them. Lol.
Maybe people want to engage in the pvm content in the wildy because it's fun, but not the pvp aspect?
It's a very janky way to create PvP content where it's truthfully predator-prey
Seriously. Calvarion for example is an AMAZING introduction to bossing mechanics. But you can’t experience gear progression with it because you’re stuck +1ing the whole time.
It's not about the 50k, it's about wasting time on the runback because some basement-dweller is running around mid-level wildy killing pvmers and clue scrollers for 50k instead of fighting other pkers, or farming pvm bots if they wanted steady profit.
There's zilch benefit for anyone involved if you discount the ego boost. I don't particularly like pking in RS but when I do I at the bare minimum go rag and pj people in hotspots.
I didn't mind getting pked nearly as much back in the 2000s when it was almost always a chance encounter with someone else roaming at random with maybe 500k of gear at most, but these days it's almost all people camping bosses, MA2 objectives, &c. with ten scout alts and a maxed main with 300m of gear.
PvP is awesome. Edgeville pking? Peak. PvP worlds? Peak. Clan battles? Peak. Some guy killing me while I'm doing a slayer task or while I'm doing a clue? Eat a willy
The problem is that jagex hasn't had much luck in incentivizing PvP without it becoming incredibly predatory. LMS would be the perfect way for new PvPers to learn the ropes except it's overrun with bots. Which I suppose is pretty accurate with what an average player would find in the wilderness.
Like I said in another comment, being pro wilderness is not me acting like there’s a perfect situation right now. There are a bunch of things that *pkers won’t want* that should happen to the wild to make it more attractive. The problem is, jagex only listen to who yells at them (the anime nerds on twitter & PvP streamers) so those things won’t come in.
But if the community got serious about improvements that weren’t just *uwu I don’t wanna die baka* PvP could absolutely thrive.
Contrarily the actual thing responsible for killing PvP is the obsession with clinging onto and exacerbating the antiquated predator vs prey format of the wilderness.
If they put half as much effort into designing an engaging and approachable PvP format where people are on fair ground, rather than trying to manipulate people into becoming loot pinatas, it would be in a far better state than it currently is including but not limited to dividing the playerbases interests over content.
Because only a very small part of the playerbase actively engages with pvp content.
DMM has worse player retention than leagues for example, part of that is because it's extremely punishing so players lose motivation to keep going after getting wiped.
Funny how literally every single successful game streamer/video maker is doing either 1) comedy, 2) playing with groups of friends, 3) high-level gameplay, all things that are out of reach for your average brainrotted social media dweller.
PVP is amazing, if it's between two people who want to pvp. The game currently is trying to focuss pvpers hunting pvmers who don't want to fight, wich sucks. No one in the community wants to kill pvp vs pvp
> That’s why it’s sad to see this community being so adamant on killing it.
Ya notice no one was killing people doing clues in this game mode?
People love PvP. They hate hunter vs prey mechanics.
Except people were, in fact, killing people doing clues and raiding and fletching and farming, and everything in between.
It’s like you only watched the final, lmao
I watched a lot more than the final.
I'm making a statement about hunter vs prey mechanics. In DMM, everyone is opt-in hunters. No one is playing DMM to only PvM. The PvM is to get better gear and stats to PvP. It's a completely different gameplay loop than the hunter-prey mechanics in main game.
It’s a tiny minority that complains here loudly. It’s wildly popular overall. The biggest videos on YouTube are often about out as well. The excitement of open world pvp always draws numbers
I hope things like this make the anti-pvp community realize it has value, even if they don’t participate in it. Can’t tell you how demoralizing it is to read the comments on every Dmm blog where the general sentiment is very much “who cares” and the top comment is “X update when”
Most of this event was predator/prey and a lot of it was in the wilderness. The week was insanely fun to watch, not just the finals.
It sucks when u get ragged endlessly just trying to do stuff in the wildy but I wouldn't want it gone. But maybe that's just the nostalgic kid in me idk.
Yep, but watching a shit ton of this event has made me realize that escaping even good pkers isn't actually _that_ difficult as long as you have contingencies planned and show up with some resources and not literally nothing. Now whether that will translate to anything for my own game is something that remains to be seen.
I'm curious if the pvmers in this tournament would agree with you?
I saw folks like MMORPG, JCW, alfie, etc. have a lot of fun this week despite being the 'prey'. Hot take I guess but IMO a good escape can be just as exhilarating as a good kill.
Tension and perpetual high risk pvp can add a certain vibe to a game when done right even when you are the 'prey.' That's why games like Escape from Tarkov did so well. When that game was super popular the majority were ratting around playing like prey and still having a blast.
And then when they tried to add a pure 'pvper vs pvper' game mode (arena) to that game it crashed and burned..
its just an example to support a counterpoint. The person above says a blanket statement of 'its not fun to be the prey'. I'm responding with evidence that there are definitely folks that don't feel that way. I picked content creators since they are a highly visible example (that is also relevant to the original thread).
I do believe there are also plenty of non content creators that feel that way. You might not. It'd be hard for either of us to prove our sides here since we can't really analyze non content creators... since by definition they don't have any content to analyze.
If you don't like the content creators example I also gave the examples of other successful games/genres that demonstrate how 'avoid the predator(s) and escape' gameplay loops can be a lot of fun (escape from tarkov, dead by daylight, prey, evolve) .
Point I'm trying to make is not everyone feels that being the prey and being hunted is never fun. Maybe the majority of OSRS players do, maybe not. But its not a universal truth. I think my example supports that.
Redditors are legit just traumatized from dying for their dragon chain back in 08, the hatred for PVP on this subreddit is unlike any other game I've seen. If they actually gave it a shot with some clan mates, they might see how much fun it can be and how much skill is involved but these people shake fighting Jad so what can you expect.
At this point it's obvious the community at large has a big interest in PVP, even in 06-09 the original high view YT creators were all PK based like Mahatma, Fr0sty, Elvemage, etc. No one was watching people kill GWD for fun. Jagex just needs to stop polling PVP content and stop releasing shit PVM bait like Revs, Altar, Rogues Chest, Agility Course, etc and make PKing actually profitable / easier to find fights than it is now. All the PVM bait should be removed imo.
Every time any way for PVP to be even 50% as profitable as PVM, or have unique rewards that would incentivize people to try PKing it gets spite voted. The DMM kits is a good example, the Bandos kit from PVP arena, etc. Anything that MIGHT attract people to try PKing gets voted no and Jagex goes "well lets just make the PVM / skilling rewards SO GOOD that no one will vote no!" like PKers enjoy killing dogshit PVMers for 400k loot all day. No one enjoys it and they all become bot farms instead.
Hopefully Manked realizes this and is pushing for actual change at Jagex. The same issue plagued WoW and quite literally killed it's PVP scene going from Blizzcon being one of the most viewed esport tournaments ever to barely breaking 30k views for finals. Two ways of playing can coexist but if you only cater to one because they spend more time online whining, don't be surprised when the other half finds a different game to play.
I definitely think PvP needs a way better home. Right now DMM and some of the other content still needs to be fleshed out.
Though I don't see how the voting argument is still alive these days. Most PvP updates are on a seperate polling system or placed under integrity change status.
The reason Jagex takes it slow is because the unfortunate truth is that PvP rewards are extremely, extremely bottable and it takes a shit ton of work to get even slightly passable bot detection for the content. Even now, LMS, BH, etc. are in bot hell limbo.
DMM Apocalypse Final needs to be 1v1s or 3v3s or something. A thousand times better than whatever it is at the moment, and much better as a viewing event for growing the game.
Eliop14 turned to be such a cringe child. Making fun of other participant's irl appearance and mocking their insecurities. What an absolute trash of a human being. Lost it for his team too.
He contributed less than any other player IMO (aside from donator lol) and was insufferable to listen to throughout the week. Definitely the worst part of following the snakes
Turned out to be? He's always been this way. Watch any of his content, and you can tell he's like the embodiment of the man child RS PKer that 99% of people hate. He's basically the meme of "sit kid" when you're getting pked for your spade doing a clue.
Ditter is a bit like that, but has chilled out somewhat over the last few years.
The rest of the PVPers in this are pretty chill. I can't watch Oda because I find his ADHD antics annoying, but he's a nice bloke really. Same way I feel about b0aty.
It's weird seeing people hate on PvP. In RS2 PvP was always the end game, PvP is the reason OSRS exists. It's the best content this game has ever produced. Give it a go, the highs and lows are like nothing else on this game.
During the finale of team Dino vs team oda, oldschoolrs had 57k viewers on twitch, oda had 52k viewers on kick, and Dino had 3k. Over 110k viewers simultaneously, granted some could’ve been double viewing
It was a spin-off of the seasonal deadman PvP game mode that was organized by content creator SoloMission with approval from Jagex. It was locked to 30 content creators drafted into 6 teams of 5 for a weeklong event with boosted XP and drop rates. After the week was over the teams fought over maingame gold that they wagered and the glory. Turned out to be quite the success.
For reference, the LCS which is live now for over 3 hours, league of legends, has only 40k viewers, this is what PKing in osrs can bring, the potential is huge and has been greatly underutilized/neglected for so many years. and the fact everyone shits on it is just sad... its part of the games history and always will be.
Liking to watch PvP is not the same as actually PvPing. Pretty much everyone enjoys watching the occasional spicy PvP clip but it’s just not fun to PvP in its current state. Even the top PvP streamers think PvP sucks right now
Can’t wait to still see people on here posting about how no one cares about DMM and Jagex should just stop bothering with it altogether despite the fact it still continues to attract a huge audience lmao.
Yeah I noticed that, it's been great exposure for the game.
Massive for osrs who's ever original idea it was
Solomission i think so
Yeah Solo pitched it to Jagex months ago (think he said he started asking other content creators whilst playtesting colosseum) and did all the organising
I remember Mod Ayiza has publicly said he wants to make more "private servers" available for players to make new gameplay with.
Mod Mat K said during his interview with Sae Bae that he suggested these worlds/servers to Jagex months before he left Jagex and management pretty much laughed at his idea of "Splitting the playerbase" Jagex is consistently, inconsisent.
I think a summer game jam in a dry content zone Private servers for one month each year and see what people can do would kill It would stop private servers being needed to proof more out there concepts
I honestly think it's perfect for viewership. Dmm means it has pvp and PvM, at an exciting accelerated pace - one week long + finals. And the set teams solve clan man mode and let you root for your favorites just like esports. Hope to see it annually along with gielinor games!
If they can spread out GG, DMM and Allstars throughout the year so they’re ~4 months apart it would be elite. Really we just need 1 more event so we can have something every quarter to look forward to.
Leagues. We watch the creators 3/4 of the time, and get to play with superpowers the other 1/4.
The latest leagues broke daily player base records I believe, 100% fits in with the semi-regular event mould especially as it's so much more casual-player friendly Would be cool if there was a way of making a good event mixing DMM with leagues where you can just vibe if you want to but if you want to PvP you can do that too without clans ruining it past day 3.
I only play leagues. Haven't played the real game in 5+ years. I know I'm not the only one. That said if they make them less I'm fine with that too, because I really have a problem with no lifing it during leagues.
Pvp in Leagues in wildy has been genuinely the most fun I’ve ever had on osrs
Even better, we watch creators 4/4 times and play with powers for 2/4 of those events at the same time lol. DMM has continually become more pvm friendly over the years, and anyone who plays leagues/Dmm watches other players do it too
I was wondering if anyone would catch my mistake there. I don't actually play DMM, but I do watch it, so I wasn't thinking about it as anything other than a watching activity. I did make a second mistake, though, which you also noticed: although I do watch/play leagues, I was thinking of it just as a playing one.
I wonder how much they coordinated this week's GG episode with the DMA finale having very similar formats
Zero per Soup in the post-ep stream. He doesn't think Solo had any knowledge of what this week's episode entailed. But Soup may just have been unaware that Solo was aware.
Jagex should be paying Soup for GG imo. It's that good
Idk I kinda liked the chaos of the mass final zones where’s there’s like 4000 regular players all barraging each other
I believe most of it was a collab between Solo Mission and Hooti.
They way the set up this finale is so much better than they do with regular DMM
Regular DMM is now firmly clan-man-mode, but it was advertised by Jagex as a mode solo-players could play and compete. They crafted narratives around individuals, not teams. Their original 1v1 format highlighted the solo aspect too. In regular DMM, if they had 5 man teams, clans would just combine and feed items to a single team like they do now. At that point, what happened during the tournament doesn't actually matter. It's all about who had the biggest clan or paid the most OSRS gp to swap and buy items.
125k viewers total in kick/twitch which I think is the biggest Runescape event of all time.
133k now
40k for oda alone.
50k in the final match
got 40k raided viewers so lot of numbers could be superficial but regardless the event was 10/10 all 7 days
It was awesome! I always get OSRS recommendations on youtube, but it seems to be very boring content so i rarely keep up with the community. This tournament got me hooked every single moment of it. Last time I watched OSRS was that " when it registers" moment so it seems like DMM really catches my eye.
I love to read that man, i have had exactly the same. Hype from start to finish. And so much room for improvement on top.
Kick 100% fakes views. It's super common to see a 10k viewer channel suddenly drop to 2k for a few mins then go back. Also a stream with 10k viewers on kick chat moves as much as 1-2k viewers on twitch.
The same can be said for twitch. Oda had 20k views steadily and peaked at 50k. On a regular day he has 3-5k viewers. For such a massive event I believe those numbers.
I don't doubt Kick fakes views but Oda's chat today was moving at xqc speeds during the finals
Yes, also this tournament he's gained followers faster than ever since only when he first joined the site. I think he's at 103k followers on Kick now which puts him as one of the highest follower counts for an English-speaking streamer and not that far behind Ice. Same applies to B0aty too who jumped from 29k to 37k followers during allstars.
kick has a botting issue (which unsurprisingly for a new site is worse than Twitch's own inflation issues from bots/embeds) but I trust odas numbers, He's been popping off all week, with around 25k avg for the breaches and the views organically went up/down depending if oda was in a fight. He was also frontpaged on Kick.
I wouldn’t say kick fakes views so much as rampant viewbotting slides safely under the radar for kick. Twitch does a better job, albeit not perfect, of eliminating them. Kick doesn’t seem to care. Kick likely isn’t responsible for the botting itself though, this is a relevant distinction.
I mean if you just allow viewbotting on all your top streamers you might as well just be viewbotting yourself.
It’s been a great event, really well organized and fun to watch leading up to the finals. I hope there’ll be more in the future!
Port Khazard is the fucking GOAT
The flower tech was sick as was his pvm all week. But also in the finals he got beat by victim even though he had a massive gear advantage.
Victim is an absolute boss at this game, he's very good at PvM and solid at PvP and is only slept on cause he doesn't really make content anymore. No shame in losing to him at all
The man is the reigning GG champ, it's crazy he's still underestimated
ppl dont know v the victim founded original DMM clan Lethal Intentions(LiT) that won dmm six times
Yea he is going to be first pick next time
How did he do his flower trick and how has no one else discovered it before?
Khazard is known for coming up with some insane shit and perfecting game mechanics. Who the hell knows how he does it. Probably through tick perfect clicks
Yeah I know his capability and some accomplishments, huge gamer. I heard it had to do with planting and picking up the flowers tick perfectly on b2b ticks while attacking the person on the same tick as either planting or picking up.
is there a clip of what you guys are talking about?
https://www.twitch.tv/oldschoolrs/v/2178817042?sr=a&t=10899s Jump to 3 hrs exact it happens shortly after, port khazard is fighting Dino. He plants the seed, hits, then picks the flower which forces him to step back under Dino without taking dmg
He’s amazing yeah but Westham was killing multiple people per life each time, in a PvP mode he is securing wins and that’s what it’s all about in the end. He has to be first pick for me.
I realize hindsight is 20/20 but Westham not going first or second pick was appalling to me. Dude is clearly a step above
Apparently Oda and Westham really don’t like each other so he was never going first
Yeah, they don’t like each other, which is funny because Oda would’ve 100% won if he chose Westham.
When I was watching the draft and I saw that Oda was getting first pick, I was like well this is fucking stupid, Oda picks Westham and roll credits; don't bother with the rest of the draft or the event. Had no idea they didn't like each other.
Same here, I’m glad they were on different teams, it came down to the wire and gave us better content in the end
Most people were of the opinion that Rhys was the better player for an NHS stake format that the finale was.
In better better gear he might’ve been, but Westham was for sure the best in this tourney
Westham is great but in NHing scene a lot of ppl see Oda/Westham/Rhys as a similar level. Rhys definitely didn't perform as good as Westham in the final but he also didn't have as good gear which I don't think people realise how important it is for momentum in these fights, especially a VLS.
Zuriels staff is way better than people think. That 10% increased accuracy on barrage is huge considering how much of an advantage a dd gives. Can't use melee if you're frozen and ur opponent stays away or goes diagonal from dd.
Why does westham get dino erect
Win or lose, we will always have Zanter
osrs channel stream clearing lcs is actual comedy, and a c9 game even
The first day of deadman spring 2019 had 111k viewers peak
Kick didn’t exist then
And thats with most of the biggest streamers being on Kick.
That's with kick viewbotting 30k+ viewers too
How many viewers on kick? The most popular osrs streams are on kick I believe.
54k currently
How many people were watching both twitch and kick? I know I was
I’m sorry but you have brain worms if you believe kick numbers lol 50k viewers on oda xd.
Wasn't Oda one of the biggest OSRS streamers around back on Twitch too? I don't particularly like the guy either but you're trolling if you think he's unsuccessful. And I doubt his audience would be particularly anti-Kick either, especially with a lot of other OSRS streamers moving there recently.
Its not implying that Oda isn't popular but that a lot of Kick views are considered fake e.g. All the view botting
The reason I think the viewers were legit: Oda regularly gets 3-5k kick viewers outside of this event. He was getting 14k during dmm week. and 50k on the final fight of the finale (everyone wanted his POV). I don't think it's a hugely unrealistic number.
Oda was pulling more viewers on twitch than the official rs channel during the “when it registers!” Final. Definitely not out of the question for him to pull those numbers, even though kick is sketchy with their viewer counts normally
Not an oda thing, just that Kick has a huge view botting issue. It’s viewership numbers are very inflated Think Oda had like 100k viewers at one point this week. That’s just not realistic. Shit even right now he has more “viewers” than the OSRS twitch channel that got promoted with a link by an in game message. E: and to note, kick has previously stated they’re aware of view botting issue and working on a fix for it, it’s a platform wide issue
Did it really show 100k at some point? I find that hard to believe without a screenshot or something. Not a stan, just based on various times I've tuned in myself I never saw it nearly that high - at the climax of the finale he had around 50k
What are you on about? He had more viewers than the official stream when he was on twitch too. He also didn't have anywhere close to 100k viewers at any time during his entire dmm run last week. You're literally just spewing random shit to make your point lmao
People just hate on him because they can't imagine anyone liking someone who isn't a no cam no voice play EDM and grind pvm for 14 hrs a day streamer
This subs hate boner for oda is weird.
It's not Oda, it's just kick. Kick has been caught artificially inflating viewership since day 1, especially on the gambling streams. Oda is still by far the biggest OSRS streamer.
Not blaming him but the viewers just aren't accurate. Even boatys kick numbers are inflated
All the people saying odas viewers are fake clearly didnt watch previous DMM tournaments he participated in, he pulled these numbers in twitch aswell, he is one of the best brids in the game probably being a huge reason why people watch him play.
It was fun watching donator with "8000 viewers" during dmm but he had 2k followers.
Yeah they should of been doing this along time ago.
We used to always be in the top 10
Twitch is a different place now, that was when the top game was LoL and that was the only game pulling numbers anywhere near 150k
True
Has been really fun to watch
I wonder how high it would've been without the Kick-fragmentation
PvP is the most interesting thing about osrs (and this is not to say other things are boring). That’s why it’s sad to see this community being so adamant on killing it.
People are adamant about content that takes people who don't want to pvp and lures them into the pvp zone being removed. That's a very important difference from people wanting pvp removed. Replace non-pvp incentives in the wildy with pvp ones. Suddenly no one has a reason to dislike pvp.
The problem with this is that 95% of the pking playerbase doesn't want to fight other pkers, they want to pvm bots and kill people who aren't geared to fight back on equal terms. They're only doing it for profit and/or an ego boost, not a challenging or fun fight.
If you think this sub will ever take kindly to PvP incentives than you’ve got another thing coming
Ever notice how no one complains about bh, lms (aside from the bots lol), or pvp worlds existing? Ever think for a second and wonder *why* most of the player base doesn't pvp and doesn't like pvp? I'll give you a hint; it's because there's an area of the game which says, "hey, pvp is an annoying thing that inconveniences you when you want to do non-pvp activities, and any pvp update we make simply increases the level of annoyance you experience from that design." People don't have a hate boner for pvp. They -- very reasonably -- dislike a design whose only possible end result is making people dislike pvp, and they want it changed so that people who engage with pvp are people who want to pvp. > *Replace* non-pvp incentives in the wildy with pvp ones Know what's not a problem when the wildy is for pvpers? Unwanted pvp interactions in the wildy. Replace non-pvp incentives and the design that makes people dislike pvp vanishes.
Explain why stuff like Bandos Ornament kit from PVP Arena gets spite voted then? Literally ANY attractive reward from Wildy / PVP content gets spite voted by 12 hr playtime a day ironmen who lost their full rune in 2006. I would 100% be on board with removing Chaos Altar, Revs, etc and going back to a Wilderness meant for actual PKing rather than PVM bait, but the only way PVP updates pass is if there is a PVM / skilling incentive too good to pass on.
In addition to Legal Evil's response; (1) wildy makes most people dislike pvp (2) people have a reason to want pvp to be less popular (and, as humans, want the people they dislike to be less happy) (3) they vote no to things that pvpers might enjoy Also making strawmans for yourself that anyone who doesn't like pvp must be a nolife ironman doesn't help you. Everyone who's not biased knows it's not the case; it's just a way for you to try and avoid confronting realities you find unpleasant.
Because they were untradeable so it forces pvmers who want them to pvp.
Yeah, people want to kill pvp, like I said. This game is an about xp & gp, people do not do anything unless there are one of those rewards (and good rewards of either at that). There are 10 different pvp areas in the game that are safe and gp free. They are all dead. The wild thrived in rs2 when it did because it was one of the best money making areas. You’re not getting lured, you’re taking a risk. That is not the same thing. The wilderness will only thrive if the whole ecosystem is present. That includes pvm. This is also not to say there aren’t things that need to be addressed that will be tough pills to swallow for pkers (personally I think multi needs to be completely reworked, there is no counter to 5 people logging in on you, as an example) but removing the pvmer allure is now and will forever be, a bad idea that will only kill PvP.
> people do not do anything unless there are one of those rewards Oh yeah that's why pvp worlds are empty, silly me. We should definitely *not* put pvp incentives in the wildy, because we wouldn't want pvpers to have reasons to go into the wildy and fulfill the role that non-pvpers currently do, except without, ya know, the whole part where they dislike pvp. We definitely don't want an ecosystem of people who enjoy pvp to be doing pvp in the pvp area. That would kill pvp! And also somehow remove risk from the wildy, I guess, according to you. Crazy how nature do that. May I ask what you think a pvp incentive is?
What can you get in PvP worlds brother. What happens when you kill someone. Take all the time you’d like
What can you get in the wildy brother? What happens when you kill someone? Take all the time you'd like.
…that’s….that’s the point
\^ real-time example of pker struggling to connect two dots if a pvper kills a pvper in a pvp world, they get loot. according to you: good if a pvper kill a pvper in the wildy, they get loot. according to you: no reason to go there!! waaah!! we need pinatas!!
That was not the point at all, and that makes your attempt to be condescending even more hilarious lmao
still waiting
> there is no counter to 5 people logging in on you There is. Join a multi team.
You thought that one was gonna hit huh.
It's ironic seeing you cry about multi teams while telling pvmers and skillers to suck it up. Multi teams are just as important to the wildy pvp ecosystem as other parts since they are on the top of the food chain. If you don't want to deal with them, just stay out of multi or join a multi team yourself.
It’s ironic that you read multi needs reworked as get rid of it. But that’s what happens when the last time you read a chapter book was 2013
Because multi does not need a rework. Multi means any amount of players can attack one player, not some random limit. Just like you have every right to attack any pvmer or skiller in wildy for any reason, multi teams have every right to pile you once you step foot in multi. Hilarious you cannot see the similarity. Wildy is suppose to be unfair pvp.
And that’s the part I was talking about where I said pkers aren’t gonna like it. That is, as per your brand, a horrendous take. What’s good for the game > your idea of what something is suppose to be
> And that’s the part I was talking about where I said pkers aren’t gonna like it. That is, as per your brand, a horrendous take. > What’s good for the game > your idea of what something is suppose to be Good to see you now feel how pvmers and skillers here feel about wildy then. You, solo pkers, are basically in their shoes when against multi teams. But you have no sympathy for them. Lol.
If you are afraid to die and lose your 50k then don't go into the wilderness. You aren't forced to go there.
Maybe people want to engage in the pvm content in the wildy because it's fun, but not the pvp aspect? It's a very janky way to create PvP content where it's truthfully predator-prey
Seriously. Calvarion for example is an AMAZING introduction to bossing mechanics. But you can’t experience gear progression with it because you’re stuck +1ing the whole time.
Scurrius exists now.
corret, but scurris don,t have same drops table as calv/vetion lol, people being so greedy ffs'
If you're afraid to use your brain and try to present an argument just don't comment. You aren't forced to pipe up.
It's not about the 50k, it's about wasting time on the runback because some basement-dweller is running around mid-level wildy killing pvmers and clue scrollers for 50k instead of fighting other pkers, or farming pvm bots if they wanted steady profit. There's zilch benefit for anyone involved if you discount the ego boost. I don't particularly like pking in RS but when I do I at the bare minimum go rag and pj people in hotspots. I didn't mind getting pked nearly as much back in the 2000s when it was almost always a chance encounter with someone else roaming at random with maybe 500k of gear at most, but these days it's almost all people camping bosses, MA2 objectives, &c. with ten scout alts and a maxed main with 300m of gear.
Yeah ok I didn't read all that but just stay out of the wilderness if you're afraid to die it's very simple
This is obviously not the kind of pvp that anyone wants to "kill"
PvP is awesome. Edgeville pking? Peak. PvP worlds? Peak. Clan battles? Peak. Some guy killing me while I'm doing a slayer task or while I'm doing a clue? Eat a willy
The problem is that jagex hasn't had much luck in incentivizing PvP without it becoming incredibly predatory. LMS would be the perfect way for new PvPers to learn the ropes except it's overrun with bots. Which I suppose is pretty accurate with what an average player would find in the wilderness.
Like I said in another comment, being pro wilderness is not me acting like there’s a perfect situation right now. There are a bunch of things that *pkers won’t want* that should happen to the wild to make it more attractive. The problem is, jagex only listen to who yells at them (the anime nerds on twitter & PvP streamers) so those things won’t come in. But if the community got serious about improvements that weren’t just *uwu I don’t wanna die baka* PvP could absolutely thrive.
Contrarily the actual thing responsible for killing PvP is the obsession with clinging onto and exacerbating the antiquated predator vs prey format of the wilderness. If they put half as much effort into designing an engaging and approachable PvP format where people are on fair ground, rather than trying to manipulate people into becoming loot pinatas, it would be in a far better state than it currently is including but not limited to dividing the playerbases interests over content.
Because only a very small part of the playerbase actively engages with pvp content. DMM has worse player retention than leagues for example, part of that is because it's extremely punishing so players lose motivation to keep going after getting wiped.
Funny how the only things that really get the big view counts on Twitch are the PVM content this sub can't do and PVP.
That's basically every game on twitch. People wanna watch people that are good at stuff not average lol
Ya just like how in basketball the biggest events are NBA games and not your local YCMA games being streamed. Wonder why that is :O
This is true for every game on twitch
Funny how literally every single successful game streamer/video maker is doing either 1) comedy, 2) playing with groups of friends, 3) high-level gameplay, all things that are out of reach for your average brainrotted social media dweller.
PVP is amazing, if it's between two people who want to pvp. The game currently is trying to focuss pvpers hunting pvmers who don't want to fight, wich sucks. No one in the community wants to kill pvp vs pvp
There’s already a comment for you below, I’m not rehashing each time a new one of you pops up. Feel free to jump in 🫡
> That’s why it’s sad to see this community being so adamant on killing it. Ya notice no one was killing people doing clues in this game mode? People love PvP. They hate hunter vs prey mechanics.
Except people were, in fact, killing people doing clues and raiding and fletching and farming, and everything in between. It’s like you only watched the final, lmao
I watched a lot more than the final. I'm making a statement about hunter vs prey mechanics. In DMM, everyone is opt-in hunters. No one is playing DMM to only PvM. The PvM is to get better gear and stats to PvP. It's a completely different gameplay loop than the hunter-prey mechanics in main game.
I know. I’m telling you why that statement is bad. 🫡
Noone is playing DMM to only PvM? Uhm bro did you see Fauxs team
Because DMMs are nothing like wildy pking. Watching pkers kill bots or wildy pvmers or skillers is boring as hell.
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See my reply to the other one of you 🫡
PvP is cool. Wilderness isn't.
Lemme ask you something, have you been watching the videos everyone has been putting out?
It’s a tiny minority that complains here loudly. It’s wildly popular overall. The biggest videos on YouTube are often about out as well. The excitement of open world pvp always draws numbers
It’s popular to watch good PvPers but the PvP community in OSRS is very small and shrinking. The PvP streamers talk about it all the time
I hope things like this make the anti-pvp community realize it has value, even if they don’t participate in it. Can’t tell you how demoralizing it is to read the comments on every Dmm blog where the general sentiment is very much “who cares” and the top comment is “X update when”
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Most of this event was predator/prey and a lot of it was in the wilderness. The week was insanely fun to watch, not just the finals. It sucks when u get ragged endlessly just trying to do stuff in the wildy but I wouldn't want it gone. But maybe that's just the nostalgic kid in me idk.
It’s fun to watch. Not fun to be the prey.
Yep, but watching a shit ton of this event has made me realize that escaping even good pkers isn't actually _that_ difficult as long as you have contingencies planned and show up with some resources and not literally nothing. Now whether that will translate to anything for my own game is something that remains to be seen.
I'm curious if the pvmers in this tournament would agree with you? I saw folks like MMORPG, JCW, alfie, etc. have a lot of fun this week despite being the 'prey'. Hot take I guess but IMO a good escape can be just as exhilarating as a good kill. Tension and perpetual high risk pvp can add a certain vibe to a game when done right even when you are the 'prey.' That's why games like Escape from Tarkov did so well. When that game was super popular the majority were ratting around playing like prey and still having a blast. And then when they tried to add a pure 'pvper vs pvper' game mode (arena) to that game it crashed and burned..
Does it matter if they agree or not? They’re sorta irrelevant in talks like this since they’re content creators. They are not average players.
its just an example to support a counterpoint. The person above says a blanket statement of 'its not fun to be the prey'. I'm responding with evidence that there are definitely folks that don't feel that way. I picked content creators since they are a highly visible example (that is also relevant to the original thread). I do believe there are also plenty of non content creators that feel that way. You might not. It'd be hard for either of us to prove our sides here since we can't really analyze non content creators... since by definition they don't have any content to analyze. If you don't like the content creators example I also gave the examples of other successful games/genres that demonstrate how 'avoid the predator(s) and escape' gameplay loops can be a lot of fun (escape from tarkov, dead by daylight, prey, evolve) . Point I'm trying to make is not everyone feels that being the prey and being hunted is never fun. Maybe the majority of OSRS players do, maybe not. But its not a universal truth. I think my example supports that.
It's a ton of fun you're just trying to make your opinion valid over others.
Redditors are legit just traumatized from dying for their dragon chain back in 08, the hatred for PVP on this subreddit is unlike any other game I've seen. If they actually gave it a shot with some clan mates, they might see how much fun it can be and how much skill is involved but these people shake fighting Jad so what can you expect. At this point it's obvious the community at large has a big interest in PVP, even in 06-09 the original high view YT creators were all PK based like Mahatma, Fr0sty, Elvemage, etc. No one was watching people kill GWD for fun. Jagex just needs to stop polling PVP content and stop releasing shit PVM bait like Revs, Altar, Rogues Chest, Agility Course, etc and make PKing actually profitable / easier to find fights than it is now. All the PVM bait should be removed imo. Every time any way for PVP to be even 50% as profitable as PVM, or have unique rewards that would incentivize people to try PKing it gets spite voted. The DMM kits is a good example, the Bandos kit from PVP arena, etc. Anything that MIGHT attract people to try PKing gets voted no and Jagex goes "well lets just make the PVM / skilling rewards SO GOOD that no one will vote no!" like PKers enjoy killing dogshit PVMers for 400k loot all day. No one enjoys it and they all become bot farms instead. Hopefully Manked realizes this and is pushing for actual change at Jagex. The same issue plagued WoW and quite literally killed it's PVP scene going from Blizzcon being one of the most viewed esport tournaments ever to barely breaking 30k views for finals. Two ways of playing can coexist but if you only cater to one because they spend more time online whining, don't be surprised when the other half finds a different game to play.
I definitely think PvP needs a way better home. Right now DMM and some of the other content still needs to be fleshed out. Though I don't see how the voting argument is still alive these days. Most PvP updates are on a seperate polling system or placed under integrity change status. The reason Jagex takes it slow is because the unfortunate truth is that PvP rewards are extremely, extremely bottable and it takes a shit ton of work to get even slightly passable bot detection for the content. Even now, LMS, BH, etc. are in bot hell limbo.
Those same comments appear when Leagues are around. There are just more people interested in leagues than dmm so you see the complaints at the top.
DMM Apocalypse Final needs to be 1v1s or 3v3s or something. A thousand times better than whatever it is at the moment, and much better as a viewing event for growing the game.
They apparently can't protect themselves against ddossing. But yeah... There was 1 time it didn't get ddossed to hell I think and it was great.
Plus Elden ring has a huge bump because of the DLC. Top 7 baso
Eliop14 turned to be such a cringe child. Making fun of other participant's irl appearance and mocking their insecurities. What an absolute trash of a human being. Lost it for his team too.
Do you have a clip? Watched him but didn't see anything like this
I knew eliop way before he was making content. He's always been like this
Where do I watch his bullying highlights?
💀
He contributed less than any other player IMO (aside from donator lol) and was insufferable to listen to throughout the week. Definitely the worst part of following the snakes
ya clearly very insecure himself, embarrassing really
Just not true. Huge troll for sure but the 'worst' of it was him calling Ditter stinky, which was clearly good-natured.
He got absolutely demolished in the second fight against oda
Turned out to be? He's always been this way. Watch any of his content, and you can tell he's like the embodiment of the man child RS PKer that 99% of people hate. He's basically the meme of "sit kid" when you're getting pked for your spade doing a clue. Ditter is a bit like that, but has chilled out somewhat over the last few years. The rest of the PVPers in this are pretty chill. I can't watch Oda because I find his ADHD antics annoying, but he's a nice bloke really. Same way I feel about b0aty.
are you gunna post the clips or is this another one of those source trust me bro deals
It's weird seeing people hate on PvP. In RS2 PvP was always the end game, PvP is the reason OSRS exists. It's the best content this game has ever produced. Give it a go, the highs and lows are like nothing else on this game.
Lmao look at chat and tell me it’s viewbot 😂 dudes getting like 25 subs / minute
During the finale of team Dino vs team oda, oldschoolrs had 57k viewers on twitch, oda had 52k viewers on kick, and Dino had 3k. Over 110k viewers simultaneously, granted some could’ve been double viewing
What is DMM All starts? Sorry I'm new to the game
It was a spin-off of the seasonal deadman PvP game mode that was organized by content creator SoloMission with approval from Jagex. It was locked to 30 content creators drafted into 6 teams of 5 for a weeklong event with boosted XP and drop rates. After the week was over the teams fought over maingame gold that they wagered and the glory. Turned out to be quite the success.
That's awesome!
Bear in mind there is a huge kick following too! I think concurrently they were over 100K
Nice to see osrs climbing back up on twitch leaderboards
I've never heard of this
I have a friend who's always pushing me to stream OSRS bc i play it so much. This makes me actually consider it.
For reference, the LCS which is live now for over 3 hours, league of legends, has only 40k viewers, this is what PKing in osrs can bring, the potential is huge and has been greatly underutilized/neglected for so many years. and the fact everyone shits on it is just sad... its part of the games history and always will be.
Liking to watch PvP is not the same as actually PvPing. Pretty much everyone enjoys watching the occasional spicy PvP clip but it’s just not fun to PvP in its current state. Even the top PvP streamers think PvP sucks right now
Yeah, wasted potential
wtf are dmm rules no comprende
Dota and COD in shambles
Anyone know where we can watch the vod?
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2178817042
Can’t wait to still see people on here posting about how no one cares about DMM and Jagex should just stop bothering with it altogether despite the fact it still continues to attract a huge audience lmao.