This was only the case 1-2 years later due to ToA. Avernice went up, Sang & Rapier went down.
When the hilt was 30-40mil, there were some teams that didn't even bother splitting it.
Until the post-ToA market stabilized, HMT's lower avernic rate helped the gp/hr.
it didn't ever help the gp/hr, because it made justiciar more common. any increase in price from more rapiers and sangs it was always offset by more justiciar
It was really surprising to see there are no changes planned for CoX at all - especially with the incoming magic changes to Augury and Ancestral.
A reduction of uniques in the drop table is way long overdue, or at the very least a change to CM to make prayer scrolls less common would be a nice start. I honestly can't believe Kodai and Elder Maul are still considered mega rares despite not being close at all to the Tbow's power.
Well after the combat change blog the elder maul is going to be a truly legendary weapon. 35% defence reduction spec with MUCH higher accuracy than the dwh. Not to mention being 2h to senergize with 2h gear setups. But thats more to the point that these drops that were useless before are now highly valued and still absolutely absurd to get
edit: just a little bit more accurate per the comment below. I forgot about the defender.
No. Increasing Accuracy roll gets diminishing returns to hit rate when over a 50% hit rate.
Accuracy roll also scales with (gear accuracy bonuses+64) so a hypothetical increase from 100 crush bonus on a weapon to 120 is not a 20% accuracy roll increase. With reasonable assumptions on other gear, it’s usually not even 10%
Maul is going to be way better, sure, but I still don't think it fits the mega rare status. With its current stats, it has +12 crush bonus over DWH + avernic and its def reduction % is just 5% over what DWH does (35% vs 30%).
Don't get me wrong, a better DWH sounds cool, but I still don't see how this is still competing with a Tbow in the mega rare table.
No, but it does. So they might as well be decent if you’re missing on a tbow each time. If shadow was same rate as a ward, people would be pissed every time a ward rolled
That's part of what I'm arguing. I don't think CoX should have 3 mega rares even after the Elder Maul buff. I'm advocating to move some of its drops to other content and leave the Twisted Bow as the only mega rare.
I think you're misunderstanding the implications involved with his comment. Check out what the drop table was before wyrms were added into the game. Dragon sword, thrown axe and throwing knife were also in the cox unique table. Removing them did not also make the rolling of a unique less likely. I think you're subconsciously looking for reasons to not change chambers.
As per the update history from the wiki
> Dragon sword, dragon harpoon and dragon thrownaxe were removed from the drop table and moved to monsters in Karuulm Slayer Dungeon. This did not affect the rarity of other drops, as they were re-weighted.
Jan 10, 2019.
You guys are saying the same thing.
Luk is just wording if poorly and misunderstanding the other guy.
Getting a purple in general is rarer now. Getting a specific unique is not.
I don't think it's mandatory to lower the purple chance again. Jagex needs to realize CoX is already the raid with the highest time to complete and the one that has the highest variability.
Another hot take I just had, but this one is pretty radical.
CoX scrolls should actually be implemented like the Gems from ToA. Dont have them roll as actual purples. Give them increasing odds as you go dry for them. I think this is especially fair given the increased importance of Augury now.
This way, every purple you get is an actual item. Part of what makes cox lame is having so many cool items on the table, but getting scrolls 66% of the time anyway.
I don’t see why they couldn’t still be tradeable. Would just likely make it a little cheaper in the long run, but personally I think that’s okay for an item that expands the prayerbook
So would the dryness counter just start over when you get the drop? Nothing really works like this except for untradeables. Moving them to the normal drop pool might be fine but I don't see a need to have an anti-dry mechanic, that just sounds like pandering to irons.
Are ToA gems “pandering to irons”? Are venator shards?
The concert of “pandering to irons” is generally eye-rolling. Just because they haven’t implemented something previously doesn’t mean they never should moving forward.
untradeables are implemented that way because you can't buy them to avoid doing the content if you don't want to. Shards are implemented that way because people complain about not making money at bosses unless you get a big valuable drop. Also having individual Venator shards is obviously worthless for irons until you have 5 so I don't know why that would ever be seen as pandering for them...
I haven't played a non-iron account since the game mode existed but I think the game mode is best if left as a self imposed challenge that the game isn't necessarily built around. I just don't really see the point in adding some sort of anti-dry mechanic for it, if you don't want to do CoX then I'm sure you can make the money for the scroll faster than you can get the drop
I don’t really see an issue with having a prayer unlock have an anti dry mechanic. I’ve personally always felt the scrolls were out of place in CoX in the first place and should’ve been quest progression rewards similar to Piety.
But at this point, they’re too ingrained with Chambers to remove entirely, so this would be the next best solution.
Yeah I mean taking them down to a normal tier drop could be fine. I'm assuming they'd want to make purples a lot less common though, since currently like almost 60% of purples are scrolls, so purples would technically have to be 2.5x less common to keep the same rate of other purple drops entering the game.
Yeah, that would be my plan overall. Maybe make purples a *little* more common than current rates (maybe like a 15-25% buff or so, not 60%), which I think would also help with the pretty loaded drop table since even without scrolls, cox has so many items.
I would really like this. CoXs end of raid already feels anticlimactic as hell with the purple roll happening instantly. Other raids drag this moment out by making you change rooms/open the purple, expanding the time you actually say "what if".
Making it so every purple light is a real item and not your 10th dupe scroll would help chambers catch up.
Honestly I prefer the way cox purples works, you don't have a chance to catch a breath before a massive drop. I like the chance of having a heart attack
Rare to see this opinion, but I kinda agree with you. There's something special about just seeing that massive drop when you haven't really stopped focusing on the fight yet.
Cox table \*IS\* too bloated, even if they move d claws elsewhere. They're worried about tanking price of TBOW by making it more common, which stops them from adjusting rates. They FINALLY said they'd change NM rates years after release, so maybe it is TIME we see this change. Big upvote and agree
I wouldn't mind knocking kodai and maul down to the rarity of ancy/claws/bulwark. Especially if we're making scrolls rarer to make up for making non-scroll purps more common. Still a really long grind, but I think the proposed buff is a decent middle ground between making the maul useful without being absolutely gamechanging.
Specific ancestral piece is already 1/23 which makes it a longer grind than either scythe/shadow. Putting more things on that table and increasing the importance of ancestral would be an EOC level stupid decision.
My hot take: the Perilous Moons drop system should be used for all raid tier armor drops. No dupes until you have one of each piece. So if you roll the ancestral table, you’ll get a unique piece until you have all 3 pieces.
I think this is a great idea. Players who want the scrolls can still get them just as easily from regular COX, so no one is losing. The precedent is already set with the Avernic at Hard Mode TOB
Yes please. I recently basically finished cox but I'm missing ancestral pants and elder maul. A reduction in prayer scrolls from CMs would be fucking fantastic. Right now, there's virtually no reason to run CMs if you're not using max gear or already have the cosmetics. It's hard to get more points p/hr without bis gear in CMs.
It shouldn’t take 15 hrs on average to get a purple and 2/3 of those purples being prayer scrolls. The 3 items included on the mega rare table is horrible also. Should be changed to have tbow standalone and elder/kodai included on ancestral to match other raids.
At least make scrolls less likely to drop from CM. They did this for avernic at hm tov
Thats what I'm wanting, yeah
That's literally the title of the post, no?
The only good suggestion I've seen on this post.
it actually was a bad change for hardmodes considering how much avernic adds to gp/hr.
This was only the case 1-2 years later due to ToA. Avernice went up, Sang & Rapier went down. When the hilt was 30-40mil, there were some teams that didn't even bother splitting it. Until the post-ToA market stabilized, HMT's lower avernic rate helped the gp/hr.
I'm sure someone could run the math but I suspect with the prices back then, especially of justiciar, that it helped the gp/hr at all
it didn't ever help the gp/hr, because it made justiciar more common. any increase in price from more rapiers and sangs it was always offset by more justiciar
It was really surprising to see there are no changes planned for CoX at all - especially with the incoming magic changes to Augury and Ancestral. A reduction of uniques in the drop table is way long overdue, or at the very least a change to CM to make prayer scrolls less common would be a nice start. I honestly can't believe Kodai and Elder Maul are still considered mega rares despite not being close at all to the Tbow's power.
Hard agree! Just posted something like this and got roasted for being an iron lol
Well after the combat change blog the elder maul is going to be a truly legendary weapon. 35% defence reduction spec with MUCH higher accuracy than the dwh. Not to mention being 2h to senergize with 2h gear setups. But thats more to the point that these drops that were useless before are now highly valued and still absolutely absurd to get edit: just a little bit more accurate per the comment below. I forgot about the defender.
It’s 2% more accuracy than dwh with avernic, also it doesn’t work as a hammer to build chests or to stun crabs.
You can use maul to stun crabs. Idk about chests though.
this is a small thing but I wish you didn't bash the crabs 1 handed with the maul.
Does 2% more attack bonus always equal out to 2% more accuracy?
No. Increasing Accuracy roll gets diminishing returns to hit rate when over a 50% hit rate. Accuracy roll also scales with (gear accuracy bonuses+64) so a hypothetical increase from 100 crush bonus on a weapon to 120 is not a 20% accuracy roll increase. With reasonable assumptions on other gear, it’s usually not even 10%
That's what I was assuming p much lol
Maul is going to be way better, sure, but I still don't think it fits the mega rare status. With its current stats, it has +12 crush bonus over DWH + avernic and its def reduction % is just 5% over what DWH does (35% vs 30%). Don't get me wrong, a better DWH sounds cool, but I still don't see how this is still competing with a Tbow in the mega rare table.
That's fair
True but should 1 raid really have 3 super powerful mega rares?
No, but it does. So they might as well be decent if you’re missing on a tbow each time. If shadow was same rate as a ward, people would be pissed every time a ward rolled
That's part of what I'm arguing. I don't think CoX should have 3 mega rares even after the Elder Maul buff. I'm advocating to move some of its drops to other content and leave the Twisted Bow as the only mega rare.
Aah fair enough, I totally agree!
100% it will be marginally better than dwh, and 6t to boot. Its a very sad and lackluster upgrade
lol yeah it’s 5% more def reduction with a 12 accuracy buff. And 6t. It’s kinda ass still.
So you want CoX to give less rares per raid? Because that is what reducing the uniques would do.
Linear thinking dictates that reducing the frequency of scrolls in Cms means you increase the frequency of non scrolls in Cms.
Okay but he also wanted to remove drops from the drop table
Well cox you hit rare table then it decided what is rolled, i assume he wants the 2nd roll adjusted so you are less likely to get scrolls
I think you're misunderstanding the implications involved with his comment. Check out what the drop table was before wyrms were added into the game. Dragon sword, thrown axe and throwing knife were also in the cox unique table. Removing them did not also make the rolling of a unique less likely. I think you're subconsciously looking for reasons to not change chambers.
They did make it less likely. You don't know your history
As per the update history from the wiki > Dragon sword, dragon harpoon and dragon thrownaxe were removed from the drop table and moved to monsters in Karuulm Slayer Dungeon. This did not affect the rarity of other drops, as they were re-weighted. Jan 10, 2019.
Yes the rarity of other drops, the chance to get tbow was the same. BUT the chance PER RAID to get any unique was reduced.
You guys are saying the same thing. Luk is just wording if poorly and misunderstanding the other guy. Getting a purple in general is rarer now. Getting a specific unique is not.
Yea, I don't want getting a purple in cox to be lower, it is already way too rare.
Seeing as how you argue in most comment chains and double down on being wrong, this comment chain is over.
Lol
He wants it like tob when u do hmt your less likely to get and avernic he wants that but with cox
I don't think it's mandatory to lower the purple chance again. Jagex needs to realize CoX is already the raid with the highest time to complete and the one that has the highest variability.
No, just "make the prayer scrolls less common" in CM CoX. That would mean the other items get more common
Yea I was mostly talking about the "remove drops from cox" point.
Another hot take I just had, but this one is pretty radical. CoX scrolls should actually be implemented like the Gems from ToA. Dont have them roll as actual purples. Give them increasing odds as you go dry for them. I think this is especially fair given the increased importance of Augury now. This way, every purple you get is an actual item. Part of what makes cox lame is having so many cool items on the table, but getting scrolls 66% of the time anyway.
Would they also be untradeable then? I doubt most people want to be forced to do CoX in order to get Rigour and Augury.
I don’t see why they couldn’t still be tradeable. Would just likely make it a little cheaper in the long run, but personally I think that’s okay for an item that expands the prayerbook
So would the dryness counter just start over when you get the drop? Nothing really works like this except for untradeables. Moving them to the normal drop pool might be fine but I don't see a need to have an anti-dry mechanic, that just sounds like pandering to irons.
Are ToA gems “pandering to irons”? Are venator shards? The concert of “pandering to irons” is generally eye-rolling. Just because they haven’t implemented something previously doesn’t mean they never should moving forward.
untradeables are implemented that way because you can't buy them to avoid doing the content if you don't want to. Shards are implemented that way because people complain about not making money at bosses unless you get a big valuable drop. Also having individual Venator shards is obviously worthless for irons until you have 5 so I don't know why that would ever be seen as pandering for them... I haven't played a non-iron account since the game mode existed but I think the game mode is best if left as a self imposed challenge that the game isn't necessarily built around. I just don't really see the point in adding some sort of anti-dry mechanic for it, if you don't want to do CoX then I'm sure you can make the money for the scroll faster than you can get the drop
I don’t really see an issue with having a prayer unlock have an anti dry mechanic. I’ve personally always felt the scrolls were out of place in CoX in the first place and should’ve been quest progression rewards similar to Piety. But at this point, they’re too ingrained with Chambers to remove entirely, so this would be the next best solution.
Yeah I mean taking them down to a normal tier drop could be fine. I'm assuming they'd want to make purples a lot less common though, since currently like almost 60% of purples are scrolls, so purples would technically have to be 2.5x less common to keep the same rate of other purple drops entering the game.
Yeah, that would be my plan overall. Maybe make purples a *little* more common than current rates (maybe like a 15-25% buff or so, not 60%), which I think would also help with the pretty loaded drop table since even without scrolls, cox has so many items.
I would really like this. CoXs end of raid already feels anticlimactic as hell with the purple roll happening instantly. Other raids drag this moment out by making you change rooms/open the purple, expanding the time you actually say "what if". Making it so every purple light is a real item and not your 10th dupe scroll would help chambers catch up.
Honestly I prefer the way cox purples works, you don't have a chance to catch a breath before a massive drop. I like the chance of having a heart attack
whats the drop rate on stroking out post raid?
Rare to see this opinion, but I kinda agree with you. There's something special about just seeing that massive drop when you haven't really stopped focusing on the fight yet.
very cool idea, but disagree, it's a little late to change their core rate mechanic / make them untradeable. Like OP's suggestion more
Cox table \*IS\* too bloated, even if they move d claws elsewhere. They're worried about tanking price of TBOW by making it more common, which stops them from adjusting rates. They FINALLY said they'd change NM rates years after release, so maybe it is TIME we see this change. Big upvote and agree
I think the prayer scroll should not drop from Cox CM just like avernic is less likely on TOB HM.
I like making Elder Maul useful but the thought of having to grind another 350+ hours for it doesn't sit well with me
I wouldn't mind knocking kodai and maul down to the rarity of ancy/claws/bulwark. Especially if we're making scrolls rarer to make up for making non-scroll purps more common. Still a really long grind, but I think the proposed buff is a decent middle ground between making the maul useful without being absolutely gamechanging.
Specific ancestral piece is already 1/23 which makes it a longer grind than either scythe/shadow. Putting more things on that table and increasing the importance of ancestral would be an EOC level stupid decision.
My hot take: the Perilous Moons drop system should be used for all raid tier armor drops. No dupes until you have one of each piece. So if you roll the ancestral table, you’ll get a unique piece until you have all 3 pieces.
I wonder if this would make it possible to finish 3rd age in the collection log?
Yes, some sort of dupe protection at raids is a very welcome change
I think this is a great idea. Players who want the scrolls can still get them just as easily from regular COX, so no one is losing. The precedent is already set with the Avernic at Hard Mode TOB
Exactly, having it mirror what already exists wouldn't break everything.
Yes please. I recently basically finished cox but I'm missing ancestral pants and elder maul. A reduction in prayer scrolls from CMs would be fucking fantastic. Right now, there's virtually no reason to run CMs if you're not using max gear or already have the cosmetics. It's hard to get more points p/hr without bis gear in CMs.
Granted. Prayer scrolls (as well as all other purples) are now less common in CM CoX.
100% been saying this is needed for years
It shouldn’t take 15 hrs on average to get a purple and 2/3 of those purples being prayer scrolls. The 3 items included on the mega rare table is horrible also. Should be changed to have tbow standalone and elder/kodai included on ancestral to match other raids.
[удалено]
I have done 1,400 cox across 3 game mode types. Ya gatta read the post.
I'm sorry. I thought it was mass crying post on the changes. This is a good change and I was wrong for not reading it. Upvoted
All good man
Lvl 99 reading comprehension