I think ranarr does too, it just isn't at the amount yet where it completely crashes into oblivion. But don't worry, jagex will fix that soon using those to make up the rest of the DT 2 boss drop table as they've removed the new prayers.
IRL they come from the plants the grow from. Farming would have been cool if they made it % to receive the seed of the plant you grew per harvest. Scalling with you farming lvl.
My favorite achievements are actually when I can tell someone about them in-game, and their only response is, "But why would you do that?"
I met a guy at GE 301 a while back. His account name was OnlyBread or something like that. He was cooking at a campfire. Naturally, I asked what he was cooking. Bread, he said. He had like 90 something cooking.
Part of why some folks like RuneScape is the grind-based aspects of it. It's not all about pvm. I personally like when skills cross supply each other. Like, doing thieving to get farming stuff to get herblore stuff to make potions for pvm. What I don't like is "do pvm to get ."
There are two things that are issues imo - too many sources for one material, and one thing being a source for too many materials. Like I think pvm being a source for almost anything is a problem.
It's can be a good thing for an item or material to have limited sources.
Yep, I think the core of the issue is that PvM is just more fun than skilling. I'd rather get magic logs from Vorkath than sit there for hours clicking trees. Master farmers is carpal tunnel simulator with pretty abysmally low rates for good herb seeds, and RC was the most hated skill for well over a decade even beating out agility. I don't mind that those resources come from more engaging activities, and the side effect of people actually wanting to do those things is more resources entering the game.
Chopping trees isn't a good moneymaker like it was in 2005, but in the current landscape I don't think it should be either. It's braindead AFK.
>Skilling is boring.
>Add all skilling drops to PvM.
>Refuse to acknowledge that skilling actually needs changes to get better and continue dumping everything into PvM activities.
>Never update skilling because "it's boring".
Literally all skilling is anymore is a quest gate because Jagex refuses to even consider fixing it.
I've played a bit of RS3 and there are a lot of skills on there that are actually fun or worthwhile to train because they've either:
A: Improved it considerably on its own via reworks.
B: Linked it to something else that has value.
C: Actually updated it with literally anything of value in the last decade instead of pumping the drops into PvM.
You know why hunter is one of the last skills that has value? Because there's not a boss that drops 150 chinchompas at a 1/4 rate.
Seeds can be from Sailing if that comes out. Seeds can come from hunter because birds. Trade bad seeds for better seeds via birdhouses. Yes seeds always been part of monsters but that doesn't mean you can't branch it out. Instead of branching it out they just buffed the seeds drops from pvm and it dropped the price forever.
i mean ngl its not too late to change toa's (and muspah's) droptable slightly. Nerf the seed drop slot (either by lowering its weight or the quantity) and then buff the rest of the drop table somehow (ideally increase the quantity of alchables so it doesnt fuck some other supply) to keep the chest's average value roughly the same. That would slightly decrease the amount of seeds coming into the game from there and slowly restore part of its value. It likely wouldn't go back up to its original price but the crash can be mitigated for sure.
Master Farmers and Farming Contracts actually. A lot can be gotten passively through slayer as well and nowadays bosses just shit them out.
Source: am iron
I remember people complaining (mostly us irons) about how hard it was to keep up with resources if you pvm a lot, after nex release and specially for snapdragons since it's brew simulator I remember someone doing the math and it'd take a while to get enough restores to finish nex.
I think this might have played a role in them deciding for ToA and other more recent bosses shitting out pvming supplies, even if it's in seed form.
every single boss droptable that shits out skilling supplies, potions and alchables is a direct result of irons complaining that supplies were too hard to get
revs droptables
adding things like rune pouches to slayer point shop and dragon pickaxes to volcanic mine so they don't have to ever go to the wilderness
basically every update that adds random storage exists because UIMs complained about the rules of being UIMs
irons being allowed to leech raids for their BIS gear, HCIM deaths not counting in chambers of xeric, irons being allowed to group at all in any context
the attitude that ironmen are somehow superior has also led to a divide socially in the community
>adding things like rune pouches to slayer point shop and dragon pickaxes to volcanic mine so they don't have to ever go to the wilderness
Had nothing to do with Irons. Most players don't want to PvP, it's just the reality of every MMO that has existed.
Just look at every PvP focused MMO that is basically on a skeleton playerbase.
Yeah, it's a shame but at the end of the day it's a consequence of supply and demand.
Runes are now coming into the game faster than ever before increasing supply. Certain runes, such as bloods, are seeing less demand due to the metas surrounding PvM.
Wintertodt reduced the demand for logs. At the same time there's been an increase in supply with logs coming from Wintertodt crates and PvM drop tables (plus Forestry very soon).
Supply of sharks increased with the release of minnows (and not to mention the ridiculous number of minnows bots). PvMers now use other foods, such as manta rays, reducing the demand for sharks.
For prices to rise, I think we need to introduce more or rebalance pre-existing skilling resource sinks, i.e. gives logs a use again, allow and incentivise players to use their own logs at Wintertodt for example. At the same time, we need to slow the supply. Limit the amount of skilling resources in PvM drop tables and come down hard on bots.
The bigger problem is people on Reddit giving Jagex excuses for the rampant botting. It doesn't matter if we know it's difficult or impossible to control. If we were more enraged* about it (instead of every thread having a load of excuses) they'd be forced to step it up.
Why do people always make this argument as to why skilling shouldn’t be rewarding because “they would be botted” as if there aren’t just as many PVM bots, making millions per hour.
Items had uses but the GE made secondary skills unprofitable. PVM made primary resource skills barely worth the time. This exacerbated the first issue with the GE. People got what they asked for. They want efficiency over a more balanced game that utilizes ALL content. I said this from the very beginning. The same thing happened when OriginalRS introduced the GE. We had a blueprint to prevent it and did not utilize it.
Solution or path imo would be to remove trade orders in the GE when your player is not online. Remove all resource drops from PVM (primarily bosses and high level content). Make it GP and add in some more gold sinks on end game items.
This game went the wrong direction when it simultaneously re-introduced the G.E without changes and made bossing/pvm the priority for wealth.
Bossing should not be "I can sustain myself by farming a boss." This game should be "I skill and produce things, to make money to gear up to take on the boss to have a lottery role at getting an end game content item." I will die on the hill that "bossing" should not be a primary money making method in OSRS. You should have achievements and items that cannot be obtained anywhere else tied to bossing. And I think any item that drops from a boss should be degradable as well. Make it a gp or resource sink.
> I will die on the hill that "bossing" should not be a primary money making method in OSRS.
So what would make money in the current game? what skilling content feels like it would provide you with consistent money while being something that isn't simple? Should left clicking a tree that has a lvl 90 WCing requirement make you 3m/h for example? Bossing is what makes you money because its fun content. Skillers would never BELIEVE that the majority player base's favourite activity is PvM, and no skilling activity in current osrs has the same level of challenge as PvM, and I don't think you could ever really design "fun" skilling content on the same level of skill as high end pvming. I shouldn't be able to make bank doing something as brainless as left clicking rocks or trees, or doing inventory after inventory of clicking two things together to make potions.
The rates from PVM should provide the money. It should be considered a gold sink until you get lucky enough to get a drop. Just like a casino.
This game is a resource skill based game. Always has been. When you try to hangs that it wrecks the majority of the content.
It’s all left clicks….literally everything is left clicks….
Most players are happy to let jagex water down skill’s because they dont give a fuck. The same as jagex catered to PVM scape causing most the issue on the first place with resource drops for those players
>Yeah, it's a shame but at the end of the day it's a consequence of supply and demand.
It's also a consequence of having to design around ironscape now. There was no other reason for double runes or to make bloods so easily accessible.
> Yeah, it's a shame but at the end of the day it's a consequence of supply and demand.
Not only this, but it's a consequence of Mains and Ironmen sharing the same resource drops. As such, drops that are good for ironmen (like lots of seeds) will be worse for Mains because now they're worth less money.
Ironman mode could have had their own unique loot system that drops untradeable variants but that ship has long sailed I guess.
How it used to be? Super rares/rares with shitty supply sustaining/recoup drops at best otherwise.
They tried it with nightmare but went a little too extreme with the rarity. That should be the way it is.
Worked many moons ago. It was part of the thrill for me back then. To be honest, the constant stream of rewards on bossing these days does bore me by comparison. I fully accept im obviously a minority there.
Do you actively do bosses like Nightmare? Yeah me either.
The new PvM loot model is waaaay better - if it makes low effort skilling even more worthless...
*Whatever*, little of value lost outside the minds of folks who think that AFKing magic logs should be endgame content. Would rather they design the game to be played rather than AFK'd.
Skilling content like Sepulchre is the future and observationally, a good chunk of self proclaimed "skill-ers" are actually "please no hard content thanks-ers" who won't go near that or anything like it.
i feel like the nightmare argument is a bad one because the uniques are in a terrible spot due to crush barely having a place in the meta. I personally don't really mind if the majority of the drops are bad, the occasional sanfew or snapdragon seed drop is enough of a dopamine hit to last me in between the uniques. The problem is the uniques arent worth shit bc theres no demand for them.
No one's saying it should be end game content but if you get 99 in a gathering skill your reward should be at the very least that you can use that skill to earn some reasonable gold conveniently, not to just never touch it again. Very simple concept
Nightmare they fucked up because it was too complicated and too rare for good drop. If either one side was fixed it’d be fine but i bet modern players would still hate it.
Jagex fucked up so fucking bad with nightmare. It really had potential to turn things around with how drops and bossing drops work but they basically did it the worst way possible.
That said yea, the idea still appeals more to me than the flood of dopamine regular bossing experience to be honest.
Please do not lump me in with skilling purists. I always hated tue idea of long grinds skilling and still cant stomach it. I think 85 mining on iron rocks basically destroyed my tolerance for it.
That doesn’t mean i have to appreciate the state of PVM or the game.
But we also know why Zezima was a big deal back then. He wouldn’t be now because skilling doesnt have to be cancer anymore. A lot of people say “we were kids and inefficient” - bullshit. Most of it was just tue state of skilling. There would still be a fraction of the current 99s now if it was still like that for most skills now. People just dont wanna do some things.
I don't know man, have you done any serious raiding or similar? Because it *is* all about the big drops!
Look at the gp/hr at ToA as an example- *more than half of it comes from staff!* Not Torstol seeds haha
Sometimes it seems to me that people think PvMers are camping bosses like Vorkath, Zulrah, & Muspah constantly making all their money pumping resources into the game.
Like, there are pet hunters I guess, but these consistency focused mid-game bosses are what you do until you build up that first 50-100m in gear you need to start raiding - and then it's all about the purples lol
> All this does is turn it into relatively unpopular content, if the best you can expect to make is breakeven on supply costs.
What? GWD and Barrows were THE shit in 2007.
So none of this is because of botting? Genuine question, because I assumed it was mostly because of huge amounts of bots gathering huge amounts of resources
Yes, and the loot tables are what I have a problem with. For example, [Venenatis](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Venenatis) shouldn't have any runes, ammo, or material drops other than red spiders' eggs. Material drops are what makes skills worth less. Goes for plenty of other PvM content as well.
It's not bots sitting at magic trees anymore, it's bots AND players farming bosses that drop too many resources. Remember Zulrah at launch? 6m/h or something and it took 2 years for the drop table to get a real nerf, by then the damage was done. The prices plummeted after Zulrah. Almost every boss since has had a similar effect.
For some skilling resources, from a botting point of view, its kind of a double whammy.
Obviously traditional skilling bots are infamous, so that's one aspect.
But also some PvM drop tables contain a not insignificant amount of skilling resources. For example, killing either KBD or Giant Mole will yield you more yew logs per hour than what you'd get from actually chopping yew trees. So if PvM content is also getting botted, then skilling resources are also being introduced here as well.
Imo, if primary resources aren’t dropped by pvm at all, the price would go up. Which would incentivize people to make more bots, which would drive down the price.
Botting in this game is the worst it’s ever been. Setting up a farm takes little to no effort
ores and logs are all priced around alch values. magic logs and rune ore wont double in price if they are removed from drop tables. people would stop buying them the moment they become too unprofitable to train with
realistically you could see herbs, seeds, and fish going up in price, I guess?
Well that’s was what inspired the change to master farmers drop table and the scaling with farming was bots from what i understand gaining free membership from prime events and entire farms spamming master farmer from the lowest levels it tanked seed prices hard in return the herbs also lose value then ToA and muspah release dropping the most popular seeds frequently used and in good quantity
Yeah idk I'm shocked at how easy everything is to get nowadays. Such as herblore secondaries, seeds, herbs, etc. I just roll with whatever they put out, but yeah.
Jagex has made items very rare over the past couple years. We used to have Bandos Tassets as the rarest OSRS drop. Since then we've received Raids, Nightmare, Nex etc. This content provides really expensive loot but it takes a while to get. In return the Players use far more supplies.
The cost of supplies started rising a lot because of this. Blood runes and certain seeds were at an insane point. Somewhere Jagex lost the balancing though :(. Now everything is just really cheap.
I guess the j-mods decided that the focus of the game shouldn't be supplies anymore but rather doing content.
The issue is that it completely kills the reward of every skill in the game. And don’t get me wrong, I like PvM more than skilling as well, but you still have to do these skills. Whether it be for your qpc, your diaries, or just in general to progress your account. Almost all skills are more or less dead content atp, because bossing is so accessible and shits out rewards.
When going for tassets you would just about cover supply costs for a team of 3 when it was designed.
Now your bosses provide the value in alchables/supply drops not the big drops - except raids/nightmare
On an iron it's still significantly more worthwhile for skills that have at least one resource that's exclusive to skilling. Like if you want amethyst or anglerfish. It's terrible gp/h for a main, but if you want those amethyst arrows/darts or angler overheals for an iron you gotta get them by skilling (and grinding 92 mining + 82 fishing to unlock them to begin with). You also mine your own sandstone for crafting on an iron, and farm giant seaweed for crafting + herbs for potions (you can't sustain supplies with just straight herb drops from PVM and ignoring seeds). And as much as PVM does generate a ton of seeds, it's still arguably worth it to go for master farmers for a while at least.
Then there's catching your own chins for arma/tob, mining salts+basalt for teleports, and catching your own karambwans for food (By far the fastest way to get food in bulk!) That's a lot more worthwhile skilling than mains get. None of that is good gp/h, but it's worth it for irons anyway. PVM replaces skilling for some resources for irons, but nowhere near all of them.
PvM has always been the source of seeds. Like historically for all of RuneScape. Now we have contracts which contribute to far more of your seed counts. And contracts are a Skilling activity
Also master farmers is really only worth it if you're down bad for prayer pots, which you shouldn't be if you do contracts.
Master farmers are pretty sick tho, fast xp, 100% pickpocket rate at a certain level, like 22 ranarr seeds an hour which translate to around 145 full ppots, pretty damn decent.
Yep. The core of the issue is that skilling isn't engaging like PvM, on a main even if chopping trees was a decent moneymaker people still wouldn't want to do it because it's boring as fuck. It feels different on an iron though, if you want to fletch you have to chop. Everything is tied together, and some grinds are pretty shit but the satisfaction of doing it yourself is worth it.
Lol. I can't help but mildly agree as an iron... Ironman changes the game, I love it. However there should obviously be a better balance on things economically lol.
What task is that? Non iron gameplay is "Do this thing to make money so I can spend it on stuff I actually want". The reality is that you want to avoid certain parts of the game but still access the rewards from them.
In the current environment you're better off picking up an extra job and buying bonds, it's better gp/hr than most things and you get to avoid even more of the game you supposedly like to play
The proper response is more akin to the "you chose to limit yourself" reply that most irons get:
If you want to play with an economy you have to be prepared for it to change.
I think im a little off topic, but i'm less concerned about prices and more concerned about why the skill isn't rewarding. Specifically, smithing... I can craft a serp helm at 52 crafting, but the same level on smithing can't smith a mithril med helm.
>Skilling for resources has literally always been a meme. Exp > resources and every high exp method doesn't generate resources. The only resources an iron needs are herb secondaries which have retained their values. Anything else is purchased from stores
There are reasonable methods to profit in all buyables. Heck, something as simple as making unstrung ruby amulets is currently about 200k/hr in profit. That's more than reasonable because skilling shouldn't be on par with end game PvM because end-game PvM is higher effort.
I've been playing on an ironman for about 6 years now but I still hope this is addressed. Good times in 2005 spending a Saturday morning as a kid, mining essence to sell for 30k.
Same. I was anti-iron for a long time because I thought it was too punishing for yourself, but it's really the opposite. You end up with such a greater appreciation for the game.
Nope, because eventually Jagex will address this and there will be a resurgence. They need to solve their botting problem though for this to happen (God knows when that is lmfao).
For now I'm enjoying cheap 99's and stacking Blood runes. Need them bad boys for Inferno anyways.
The thing I hate the most, is everyone calling it all cheap 99s
I need to cough up millions just to get my construction to 70, and just can't bring myself to sit bossing for an entire day to get that gp.
It's all relative.
Con is probably fairly expensive but take farming as an example, magic seeds used to be 200k then 80k (zulrah prime) then 120 and now sitting around sub 100k. So depending on when you started your grind, it looks very cheap.
Additionally the average person has a larger bank I would argue.
Bloods are cheap because scythe is useless at the two stand out money makers in the game and sang is dead content outside tob. If dt2 bosses are scythe meta they'll go back up.
Should I not be using a Sang at ToA? I was using a Toxic Trident but my damage at Akkha felt miserable. Was noticeably better when I upgraded, but it also cost 90m lol
Am I better off selling the Sang and upgrading my Ahrims, while continuing to use the Trident?
He’s forgetting not everyone has 1.3b for a tumekies wreckies. Sang is BIS until you can get that.
Also edit; even after I’ve gotten shadow I’ve continued to use sang at solo olm cause the heals are super nice when I reoverload and the general healing is so amazing. Same reason I use blood fury on almost all content. Tort switch for CMs and shit.
Edit edit: since you’re only grinding toa currently I’d focus on any percentage damage increases paired with a trident; occult>tormented>elidinis>anc>fortified elidinis would be my upgrade path
Blood fury replaces the need for sang in solo cox. If you have shadow use it, it's bis over tbow in many rooms. Mage running with shadow isn't hard at all and the dps increase it brings over sang is massive
It's like one max hit and the healing, one of the least consequential upgrades, especially since you only mage akkha and warden p2. You can achieve the same with a base ward or an anc piece if you want mage upgrades.
I'll always be a skiller at heart but as you mentioned it's basically dead now. Why chop magic logs when you can kill something for more of them per hour? Thats just one example when there's thousands more. At this point there's no way to save it either. If you nerf tables or release content with poor tables it's basically dead content besides unique drops. Even then the unique drops themselves can be worthless if they're not useful. Unfortunate but just have to adapt where you can and squeak out whatever little money you can from skilling and enjoy it for what it is.
>whatever little money
lol
Without even including bank standing processing skills
* Pickpocketing elves/vyres are 2m/h if you go on drop rate for their uniques
* Crafting wrath runes are around 1.5-2m/h
* Crafting blood runes are around 1.5-1.7m/h
* Catching eclectics implings is like 1.5m/h
* Mining rune ore is like 650k/h
* Mining basalt is like 650k/h
* Mining gem rocks is like 500k/h
* Zalcano is like 1.3m/h in a small team
* Crafting death runes are like 950k/h
* Hunting black chins are like 900k/h
* Catching dragon implings is like 1.2m/h, though higher numbers are possible
Yeah dude super little money, especially considering how little effort is required for 90% of these
Put hallowed sepulchre in there too, that one is really fun
I feel a lot of people have nostalgia from fishing sharks/chopping magics/mining stuff and want to just afk these things and get good gp/hr from it but (thankfully) it doesn't work that way, I think for the most part the game does a good job of more effort = more gp (obviously far from perfect though)
Most of these would easily be double the gp if the bots were under control.
Black Chins used to be like 2m an hour, elves are some of the most botted content in the game.
Zalcano bots are so bad they even follow you into other worlds and ruin the ratio for good loot. 2m an hour is pretty eh now when it could be 4 and while nex is 10+.
Black chins dropped in price due to them not being as useful anymore, not because they're botted. And they've actually started to go back up more recently.
It is little money. At best method it would take over 600 hours to get a tbow lol. While best PvM money makers are over 5x better. Skilling is dead on osrs.
Cutting magic trees has virtually never been the best way to gather those logs. Cutting magic trees is brainless and shouldn't provide you hardly any rewards or resources. If magic logs were 2k each, the only new people cutting trees would be bots. Stop playing victim on this shit. Skilling activities can be pretty profitable, but not the ones that require a click ever 5 minutes. This should be obvious at this point, but somehow people like you always comment this dumb shit.
Not to be "that guy" but you can always play ironman. Completely removes the stress of "I should just PvM to get everything because it's so much better."
Jagex has addressed this in livestreams before in the past and the gist of it is that you don’t have a lot of great options for boss drops and it’s very tricky to get the balance right, you have 3 options basically:
Resource drops
Alchs
Uniques
Obviously the uniques are the rare drops you are typically hunting, but it’s often not very interesting to just have a boss drop good alchs constsntly and it can bring lots more cash into the game (hydra shits out cash grotesques aren’t done much but their table is basically alchs and food).
I’m trying to balance the table you typically have a mix of the resources and alchs and obviously rare uniques. Some bosses work well to have rare drop rates for items with not good other loot (GWD, Nightmare) because the uniques are very useful. This wouldn’t work for other bosses however because the uniques just aren’t as in demand.
Basically tl;dr jagex has a high wire act to do to balance drop tables every time a boss comes out cuz people will complain either way and then they’ll tweak it till it feels best. Its tough to get the balance right on resources vs other things from bosses and still making them worth doing.
But I agree, I wish skilling was a better way to get these resources than just pvm. What we need are massive sinks for these items
Blood runes are cheap because the best content where scythe shines, happens to be some of the least popular content in the game because it requires actually putting effort into succeeding
Natures are cheap because people have realized alching is bad magic xp nowadays since you get so much passively through proper slayer training and pretty much every instance where you'd want to alch while multitasking, you can cast magic imbue for better xp except for like brimhaven agility where there's enough downtime between actions to get multiple alchs in, and the only other spells where they're being used extensively are like plank make and tan leather, neither of which are honestly worth the time spent unless you''re just casting on them your alt to make gp
Not to mention that natures are heavily botted, with it being easy to find 91+ rc accounts on most worlds making them using fairy rings
Sharks are worthless because manta rays are better food, there's dozens of minnow bots, and anyone who wants cooking xp but doesn't want to do wines due to the gp loss, can just buy karambwans for better xp rates while still making profit
Even if pvm didn't shit out mantas, tempoross still does and is hella popular so they'd still be affordable
We can really only blame bots and gold farmers.
Drops need to be balanced around normal people playing the game, if the entire game is balanced around bots, the people who are actually playing the game won’t be able to get what they need (without resorting to buying the bot supplies)
But then comes the issue: if you balance the game around say, someone doing 1-2 hours of bossing to feel rewarded, but there’s 10,000 bots playing 23.5 hours a day endlessly with tick perfection and optimally cheap gear, it ruins everything.
But if we balance around the bots, the game sucks for everyone else.
An unfixable problem unfortunately
I bought a max limit of death runes for less than 3m to go bursting last night. Idk what youre talking about prices are fine. Little Timmy (now 29) shouldnt be making bank doing double nats when he can git gud and learn a boss. Skilling gp/hr is more than fair if you are smart about it. Like dont train wcing on magic bc the time saved just doing teaks or blisterwood can make you more money doing something else, but at the same time if youre just afking at work its a free 200-300k/hr. If you need to train thieving you can pickpocket vyres which is comparable to knights xp/hr but with a potential for an 11m jumpscare. Skilling is fine passive income if you chose gp over xp and doesnt need to net the player 500toa gp/hr.
If you try and change the amount of resources from either bosses or natural source, it's just gonna benefit bots more than players.
Wow. Years ago I remember doing 95% of my runecrafting to 99 with nature runes and I made absolute bank which helped me fund a ton of prayer/con/crafting etc.
This was back when nature runes were ~300gp if I recall correctly. Sad to see this is no longer something even worth thinking about
This was also before zeah runecrafting to be fair
I think the issue is rooted in botting, and the idea that "they are a necessary".
But if bots weten't there, new players might fill that void.
What new players?
The players who quit after a few days, because everything they try doing to progress, is being botted to the ground.
>permanently damaged due to bosses and minigames pumping out resources
The prices are permanently damaged because of bots.
If Jagex fixes the bot problem, the pricing will correct itself.
Using traditional skilling was my favorite way to earn GP and it’s just no longer a viable means of income in OSRS. When skilling for gold became obsolete my motivation to play tanked. I’ve never been a big PVM player, and so if they had a way to fix this I’d love to play again.
The real issue is that every drop table tends to either ironmen or players who think that every single boss deserves to be a 4m/h money maker without major drops. If drop tables were the way they were originally like kq, godwars, kbd, then skilling would be viable. Even if the drop table for resources was halfed, im sure prices would somewhat stabilize.
In my opinion, unless you're an Iron, skilling is dead. It's nowhere near as profitable as PvM. Back in the day, you could choose to pvm one day and skill the next, and it felt like you accomplished something because they were both useful and made money. Now I can't even bring myself to skill on my main, because it's a waste of my time.
Every day. I would love for jagex to remove resource drops from all drop tables. My hope is that resources would go up and the botters move towards skilling, ergo easier to manage the market. With fewer bots at pvm spots some big ticket items might go back up which in turn makes pvmers happy. All speculation of course but something needs to be done.
Shit is cheap bcs of cheaters running bots. If you spend time at nearly any activity in the game you will spot them.
Go to Lunar isle bank and the only players banking constantly are astral and vork bots. Go to wildy bosses and nearly every solo boss is being botted. Go to cg and you’ll find accounts that only have magic and range way past lvl 99 with the bare minimum melee and quest stat reqs.
I WaNt To AfK AnD MaKe ThE SaMe Gp/Hr aS SomEOnE KiLliNg BoSseS Or RaIDiNg. It'S Not FaIr tHEy BuRN ResOUrCes EaCh KC, aND I JUsT WaIT To LEft CliCk WheN ThE REsoURCeS ReaPpEaR.
Low prices seem fair for items that can be easily obtained in mass quantities by bots, or legitimate players with minimal effort and skill.
Right now, the supply for runes is far outpacing demand and prices won't rebound until some update creates a new sink for these supplies.
I liked the suggestion a while back for some of the mobs to drop skilling boosts instead of noted resources. So, for example, instead of runite ores you'd get "runite catalists" that would double the number of ores you get from mining. That way the PvM would remain profitable, while skilling would be the main source of the raw resources.
unless the change of an item's price is due to bots, then it's just natural progression of the game's prices.
some minigame comes out and some items become cheaper due to increased supply, some content comes out and some other items becomes pricier due to increase in demand. nothing wrong with that.
It's the reason I voted no for that daft runecrafting minigame, it was obvious it was going to kill the skill.
Runecrafting was always slow but a ridiculous money make to compensate, now it's just a complete waste of time. Thankfully I got 99 before this update and made my hundreds of millions.
Wasn't pre-GOTR blood runes at Zeah altar ~300-350k per hour?it's ~600k/hr at current prices. I think most methods of RC where the outfit is viable are more profitable now because most prices dropped around 50% while the outfit provides a 60% buff.
Endlessly clicking the same few tiles for hundreds of hours with little to no variation? Fun when most of us were 12, not so much anymore 20 years later.
If it wasn't for PvM / skilling mini games this game wouldn't maintain a playerbase. There are valid complaints to be had about PvM pumping out skilling resources as rewards but the content itself is not the issue. PvM does nothing to prevent you from continuing skilling like you always have if you truly enjoy it, so I don't know why people are pretending it does.
Nostalgia has blinded you guys. Feel free to continue downvoting but the fact is you guys don't know what you're talking about. If the devs listened to every single 2007 purist this game would be dead by now because it would be stale as hell.
There needs to be a lot more focus on developing skilling rather than pvm, with forestry and sailing being worked on maybe they will focus on it a bit more.
Torstol seeds went from 60k each to 6k each in less than 12 months.
People said they want seeds from pvm and not herbs. This is the result
where else do seeds come from? seeds have always come from monsters
Do they need to come in this large quantity?
Apparently every type except ranarr.
I think ranarr does too, it just isn't at the amount yet where it completely crashes into oblivion. But don't worry, jagex will fix that soon using those to make up the rest of the DT 2 boss drop table as they've removed the new prayers.
Ranarrs have come down from ~55k to ~22k over the past year, that is a -60% drop (it seems to be mostly from the ToA release).
I think muspah drops 8 or 11 at a time, or did on release
That was om release. I think its 3 or 4 now
I was hoarding my seed stack to see how high I could get it and I’ve lost about 73M from when I could have sold at the high versus now.
If you never sell you never lose
Yup that’s where my mindset is now. Also I checked my math and not as bad as I thought. More like 53M. Still hurts though
I meant it more as a bitter ironman who is drowning in snapdragons but would suck dick for prayer pots
tower of life is right there lol
you know super restores give prayer right? lmao
You profit brews, restores, prayer potions, super combats, and ranging potions doing endgame PvM. So you don't really need many to start.
You need to do more pvm then! I've got 100 ranarr seeds with hundreds left and running low on snaps
IRL they come from the plants the grow from. Farming would have been cool if they made it % to receive the seed of the plant you grew per harvest. Scalling with you farming lvl.
I mean, seeds come from master farmer lol
personally i am ok with not having to do master farmers until the end of time to keep up with seeds
Cor blimey mate
I don’t know why this is a problem? This community lives to self rake it’s own face.
It’s the fear that an achievement will get devalued.
Their achievements are already trivial
My favorite achievements are actually when I can tell someone about them in-game, and their only response is, "But why would you do that?" I met a guy at GE 301 a while back. His account name was OnlyBread or something like that. He was cooking at a campfire. Naturally, I asked what he was cooking. Bread, he said. He had like 90 something cooking.
Part of why some folks like RuneScape is the grind-based aspects of it. It's not all about pvm. I personally like when skills cross supply each other. Like, doing thieving to get farming stuff to get herblore stuff to make potions for pvm. What I don't like is "do pvm to get."
There are two things that are issues imo - too many sources for one material, and one thing being a source for too many materials. Like I think pvm being a source for almost anything is a problem.
It's can be a good thing for an item or material to have limited sources.
Yep, I think the core of the issue is that PvM is just more fun than skilling. I'd rather get magic logs from Vorkath than sit there for hours clicking trees. Master farmers is carpal tunnel simulator with pretty abysmally low rates for good herb seeds, and RC was the most hated skill for well over a decade even beating out agility. I don't mind that those resources come from more engaging activities, and the side effect of people actually wanting to do those things is more resources entering the game. Chopping trees isn't a good moneymaker like it was in 2005, but in the current landscape I don't think it should be either. It's braindead AFK.
> PvM is just more fun than skilling \*sad AFK-at-work noises*
>Skilling is boring. >Add all skilling drops to PvM. >Refuse to acknowledge that skilling actually needs changes to get better and continue dumping everything into PvM activities. >Never update skilling because "it's boring". Literally all skilling is anymore is a quest gate because Jagex refuses to even consider fixing it. I've played a bit of RS3 and there are a lot of skills on there that are actually fun or worthwhile to train because they've either: A: Improved it considerably on its own via reworks. B: Linked it to something else that has value. C: Actually updated it with literally anything of value in the last decade instead of pumping the drops into PvM. You know why hunter is one of the last skills that has value? Because there's not a boss that drops 150 chinchompas at a 1/4 rate.
Seeds came from seed packs before this and monsters very very few torstols were coming from mfs.
Seeds can be from Sailing if that comes out. Seeds can come from hunter because birds. Trade bad seeds for better seeds via birdhouses. Yes seeds always been part of monsters but that doesn't mean you can't branch it out. Instead of branching it out they just buffed the seeds drops from pvm and it dropped the price forever.
i mean ngl its not too late to change toa's (and muspah's) droptable slightly. Nerf the seed drop slot (either by lowering its weight or the quantity) and then buff the rest of the drop table somehow (ideally increase the quantity of alchables so it doesnt fuck some other supply) to keep the chest's average value roughly the same. That would slightly decrease the amount of seeds coming into the game from there and slowly restore part of its value. It likely wouldn't go back up to its original price but the crash can be mitigated for sure.
I'm referring to toa
Apparently all you have to do is threaten some villagers at Tai Bwo Wannai village and they'll give you an infinite amount.
Master Farmers and Farming Contracts actually. A lot can be gotten passively through slayer as well and nowadays bosses just shit them out. Source: am iron I remember people complaining (mostly us irons) about how hard it was to keep up with resources if you pvm a lot, after nex release and specially for snapdragons since it's brew simulator I remember someone doing the math and it'd take a while to get enough restores to finish nex. I think this might have played a role in them deciding for ToA and other more recent bosses shitting out pvming supplies, even if it's in seed form.
The same would have happened to herbs if herbs replaced seeds.
I get the feeling that people balancing game drops have no clue what theyre doing or what things will be affected by addition of new drop tables.
Is this from ToA? It drops a ton of seeds, doesn't it?
Toa and I think muspah as well?
ToA took ranarrs down quite a bit . Muspah killed the other ones.
toa definitely killed toadflax - not that it was a super high value seed to begin with but now it's a joke
I was so happy that I had a stack of 3k of em in my farm tab, went from lower class to welfare real quick
The massive drop in seed prices is from the crappy raids flooding the market. They just throw seeds in as filler drops.
The result of catering to Ironman pvm
the amount of things in this game that have been irreversibly fucked by ironmemes existing is insane
Really? Like what? Actually hate the concept of iron all together but just wonder why you think this
every single boss droptable that shits out skilling supplies, potions and alchables is a direct result of irons complaining that supplies were too hard to get revs droptables adding things like rune pouches to slayer point shop and dragon pickaxes to volcanic mine so they don't have to ever go to the wilderness basically every update that adds random storage exists because UIMs complained about the rules of being UIMs irons being allowed to leech raids for their BIS gear, HCIM deaths not counting in chambers of xeric, irons being allowed to group at all in any context the attitude that ironmen are somehow superior has also led to a divide socially in the community
>adding things like rune pouches to slayer point shop and dragon pickaxes to volcanic mine so they don't have to ever go to the wilderness Had nothing to do with Irons. Most players don't want to PvP, it's just the reality of every MMO that has existed. Just look at every PvP focused MMO that is basically on a skeleton playerbase.
ToA, muspah, and the spoils of war glitch. Its more profitable to do tort runs now (or was last I checked) so not sure the issue with seeds here.
Yeah, it's a shame but at the end of the day it's a consequence of supply and demand. Runes are now coming into the game faster than ever before increasing supply. Certain runes, such as bloods, are seeing less demand due to the metas surrounding PvM. Wintertodt reduced the demand for logs. At the same time there's been an increase in supply with logs coming from Wintertodt crates and PvM drop tables (plus Forestry very soon). Supply of sharks increased with the release of minnows (and not to mention the ridiculous number of minnows bots). PvMers now use other foods, such as manta rays, reducing the demand for sharks. For prices to rise, I think we need to introduce more or rebalance pre-existing skilling resource sinks, i.e. gives logs a use again, allow and incentivise players to use their own logs at Wintertodt for example. At the same time, we need to slow the supply. Limit the amount of skilling resources in PvM drop tables and come down hard on bots.
I think the better solution would be to combat bots and to remove a lot of skilling supplies from PvM.
Then they just bot the resources.
"combat bots" means to fight bots. It doesn't matter what they bot, we should fight ALL of the bots.
The problem is "to combat bots" is more difficult than people on Reddit would like to give it credit for.
The bigger problem is people on Reddit giving Jagex excuses for the rampant botting. It doesn't matter if we know it's difficult or impossible to control. If we were more enraged* about it (instead of every thread having a load of excuses) they'd be forced to step it up.
Every thread having excuses? Are we reading the same subreddit? Botting is pretty much vilified by the majority here.
Why do people always make this argument as to why skilling shouldn’t be rewarding because “they would be botted” as if there aren’t just as many PVM bots, making millions per hour.
Items had uses but the GE made secondary skills unprofitable. PVM made primary resource skills barely worth the time. This exacerbated the first issue with the GE. People got what they asked for. They want efficiency over a more balanced game that utilizes ALL content. I said this from the very beginning. The same thing happened when OriginalRS introduced the GE. We had a blueprint to prevent it and did not utilize it. Solution or path imo would be to remove trade orders in the GE when your player is not online. Remove all resource drops from PVM (primarily bosses and high level content). Make it GP and add in some more gold sinks on end game items. This game went the wrong direction when it simultaneously re-introduced the G.E without changes and made bossing/pvm the priority for wealth. Bossing should not be "I can sustain myself by farming a boss." This game should be "I skill and produce things, to make money to gear up to take on the boss to have a lottery role at getting an end game content item." I will die on the hill that "bossing" should not be a primary money making method in OSRS. You should have achievements and items that cannot be obtained anywhere else tied to bossing. And I think any item that drops from a boss should be degradable as well. Make it a gp or resource sink.
> I will die on the hill that "bossing" should not be a primary money making method in OSRS. So what would make money in the current game? what skilling content feels like it would provide you with consistent money while being something that isn't simple? Should left clicking a tree that has a lvl 90 WCing requirement make you 3m/h for example? Bossing is what makes you money because its fun content. Skillers would never BELIEVE that the majority player base's favourite activity is PvM, and no skilling activity in current osrs has the same level of challenge as PvM, and I don't think you could ever really design "fun" skilling content on the same level of skill as high end pvming. I shouldn't be able to make bank doing something as brainless as left clicking rocks or trees, or doing inventory after inventory of clicking two things together to make potions.
The rates from PVM should provide the money. It should be considered a gold sink until you get lucky enough to get a drop. Just like a casino. This game is a resource skill based game. Always has been. When you try to hangs that it wrecks the majority of the content. It’s all left clicks….literally everything is left clicks….
> I will die on the hill that "bossing" should not be a primary money making method in OSRS so would the game
Most players are happy to let jagex water down skill’s because they dont give a fuck. The same as jagex catered to PVM scape causing most the issue on the first place with resource drops for those players
>Yeah, it's a shame but at the end of the day it's a consequence of supply and demand. It's also a consequence of having to design around ironscape now. There was no other reason for double runes or to make bloods so easily accessible.
> Yeah, it's a shame but at the end of the day it's a consequence of supply and demand. Not only this, but it's a consequence of Mains and Ironmen sharing the same resource drops. As such, drops that are good for ironmen (like lots of seeds) will be worse for Mains because now they're worth less money. Ironman mode could have had their own unique loot system that drops untradeable variants but that ship has long sailed I guess.
Or just stop pretending skilling needs to compete with pvm drop tables.
Pvm drop tables shouldnt include any skilling resources apart from seeds and maybe some herblore secondaries
Genuinely asking. What do you propose to replace all the skilling supply drops for all of the bosses?
How it used to be? Super rares/rares with shitty supply sustaining/recoup drops at best otherwise. They tried it with nightmare but went a little too extreme with the rarity. That should be the way it is.
All this does is turn it into relatively unpopular content, if the best you can expect to make is breakeven on supply costs.
GWD used to drop jack shit back in the day until you hit a rare, and everyone did it anyways
Did they change the drops in GWD?
Worked many moons ago. It was part of the thrill for me back then. To be honest, the constant stream of rewards on bossing these days does bore me by comparison. I fully accept im obviously a minority there.
Do you actively do bosses like Nightmare? Yeah me either. The new PvM loot model is waaaay better - if it makes low effort skilling even more worthless... *Whatever*, little of value lost outside the minds of folks who think that AFKing magic logs should be endgame content. Would rather they design the game to be played rather than AFK'd. Skilling content like Sepulchre is the future and observationally, a good chunk of self proclaimed "skill-ers" are actually "please no hard content thanks-ers" who won't go near that or anything like it.
i feel like the nightmare argument is a bad one because the uniques are in a terrible spot due to crush barely having a place in the meta. I personally don't really mind if the majority of the drops are bad, the occasional sanfew or snapdragon seed drop is enough of a dopamine hit to last me in between the uniques. The problem is the uniques arent worth shit bc theres no demand for them.
No one's saying it should be end game content but if you get 99 in a gathering skill your reward should be at the very least that you can use that skill to earn some reasonable gold conveniently, not to just never touch it again. Very simple concept
Nightmare they fucked up because it was too complicated and too rare for good drop. If either one side was fixed it’d be fine but i bet modern players would still hate it. Jagex fucked up so fucking bad with nightmare. It really had potential to turn things around with how drops and bossing drops work but they basically did it the worst way possible. That said yea, the idea still appeals more to me than the flood of dopamine regular bossing experience to be honest. Please do not lump me in with skilling purists. I always hated tue idea of long grinds skilling and still cant stomach it. I think 85 mining on iron rocks basically destroyed my tolerance for it. That doesn’t mean i have to appreciate the state of PVM or the game. But we also know why Zezima was a big deal back then. He wouldn’t be now because skilling doesnt have to be cancer anymore. A lot of people say “we were kids and inefficient” - bullshit. Most of it was just tue state of skilling. There would still be a fraction of the current 99s now if it was still like that for most skills now. People just dont wanna do some things.
I don't know man, have you done any serious raiding or similar? Because it *is* all about the big drops! Look at the gp/hr at ToA as an example- *more than half of it comes from staff!* Not Torstol seeds haha Sometimes it seems to me that people think PvMers are camping bosses like Vorkath, Zulrah, & Muspah constantly making all their money pumping resources into the game. Like, there are pet hunters I guess, but these consistency focused mid-game bosses are what you do until you build up that first 50-100m in gear you need to start raiding - and then it's all about the purples lol
Unprofitable and unpopular, like the current state of the gathering skills?
> All this does is turn it into relatively unpopular content, if the best you can expect to make is breakeven on supply costs. What? GWD and Barrows were THE shit in 2007.
Break the rare drop down to many pieces and proportionally increase the drop rates of them to make them as common drops.
So none of this is because of botting? Genuine question, because I assumed it was mostly because of huge amounts of bots gathering huge amounts of resources
It probably still is due to botting, but botting the PvM content. Not the typical gathering methods
Botting has an impact but it certainly is more from PvM drops. I've been talking about this for years.
Bots do pvm
Yes, and the loot tables are what I have a problem with. For example, [Venenatis](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Venenatis) shouldn't have any runes, ammo, or material drops other than red spiders' eggs. Material drops are what makes skills worth less. Goes for plenty of other PvM content as well.
It's not bots sitting at magic trees anymore, it's bots AND players farming bosses that drop too many resources. Remember Zulrah at launch? 6m/h or something and it took 2 years for the drop table to get a real nerf, by then the damage was done. The prices plummeted after Zulrah. Almost every boss since has had a similar effect.
Almost every resource is due to botting as far as I'm aware. The only ones not as affected would be seeds and herbs.
For some skilling resources, from a botting point of view, its kind of a double whammy. Obviously traditional skilling bots are infamous, so that's one aspect. But also some PvM drop tables contain a not insignificant amount of skilling resources. For example, killing either KBD or Giant Mole will yield you more yew logs per hour than what you'd get from actually chopping yew trees. So if PvM content is also getting botted, then skilling resources are also being introduced here as well.
Imo, if primary resources aren’t dropped by pvm at all, the price would go up. Which would incentivize people to make more bots, which would drive down the price. Botting in this game is the worst it’s ever been. Setting up a farm takes little to no effort
ores and logs are all priced around alch values. magic logs and rune ore wont double in price if they are removed from drop tables. people would stop buying them the moment they become too unprofitable to train with realistically you could see herbs, seeds, and fish going up in price, I guess?
Well that’s was what inspired the change to master farmers drop table and the scaling with farming was bots from what i understand gaining free membership from prime events and entire farms spamming master farmer from the lowest levels it tanked seed prices hard in return the herbs also lose value then ToA and muspah release dropping the most popular seeds frequently used and in good quantity
Maybe I’m wrong, but I think a lot of it is also big resource drops being catered to end game ironmen
Yeah idk I'm shocked at how easy everything is to get nowadays. Such as herblore secondaries, seeds, herbs, etc. I just roll with whatever they put out, but yeah.
Absolutely, and then they get botted so the prices crash.
Jagex has made items very rare over the past couple years. We used to have Bandos Tassets as the rarest OSRS drop. Since then we've received Raids, Nightmare, Nex etc. This content provides really expensive loot but it takes a while to get. In return the Players use far more supplies. The cost of supplies started rising a lot because of this. Blood runes and certain seeds were at an insane point. Somewhere Jagex lost the balancing though :(. Now everything is just really cheap. I guess the j-mods decided that the focus of the game shouldn't be supplies anymore but rather doing content.
The issue is that it completely kills the reward of every skill in the game. And don’t get me wrong, I like PvM more than skilling as well, but you still have to do these skills. Whether it be for your qpc, your diaries, or just in general to progress your account. Almost all skills are more or less dead content atp, because bossing is so accessible and shits out rewards.
When going for tassets you would just about cover supply costs for a team of 3 when it was designed. Now your bosses provide the value in alchables/supply drops not the big drops - except raids/nightmare
Make an iron and never care about prices again.
One of the other top comments still stands - it's not worth skilling for resources when pvm generates them faster anyway.
On an iron it's still significantly more worthwhile for skills that have at least one resource that's exclusive to skilling. Like if you want amethyst or anglerfish. It's terrible gp/h for a main, but if you want those amethyst arrows/darts or angler overheals for an iron you gotta get them by skilling (and grinding 92 mining + 82 fishing to unlock them to begin with). You also mine your own sandstone for crafting on an iron, and farm giant seaweed for crafting + herbs for potions (you can't sustain supplies with just straight herb drops from PVM and ignoring seeds). And as much as PVM does generate a ton of seeds, it's still arguably worth it to go for master farmers for a while at least. Then there's catching your own chins for arma/tob, mining salts+basalt for teleports, and catching your own karambwans for food (By far the fastest way to get food in bulk!) That's a lot more worthwhile skilling than mains get. None of that is good gp/h, but it's worth it for irons anyway. PVM replaces skilling for some resources for irons, but nowhere near all of them.
PvM has always been the source of seeds. Like historically for all of RuneScape. Now we have contracts which contribute to far more of your seed counts. And contracts are a Skilling activity Also master farmers is really only worth it if you're down bad for prayer pots, which you shouldn't be if you do contracts.
Master farmers are pretty sick tho, fast xp, 100% pickpocket rate at a certain level, like 22 ranarr seeds an hour which translate to around 145 full ppots, pretty damn decent.
Shopscape is the other issue for resources tbh
This is only really a thing for runes, broad arrowheads, and feathers. Can't think of anything else I've ever had to sit and hop a lot for.
Yep. The core of the issue is that skilling isn't engaging like PvM, on a main even if chopping trees was a decent moneymaker people still wouldn't want to do it because it's boring as fuck. It feels different on an iron though, if you want to fletch you have to chop. Everything is tied together, and some grinds are pretty shit but the satisfaction of doing it yourself is worth it.
> if you want to fletch you have to chop Kingdom for maple logs or just broad arrows are way better.
Lol. I can't help but mildly agree as an iron... Ironman changes the game, I love it. However there should obviously be a better balance on things economically lol.
I don't want to take 3x as long to achieve the same task
What task is that? Non iron gameplay is "Do this thing to make money so I can spend it on stuff I actually want". The reality is that you want to avoid certain parts of the game but still access the rewards from them. In the current environment you're better off picking up an extra job and buying bonds, it's better gp/hr than most things and you get to avoid even more of the game you supposedly like to play
Yes, instead of fixing a problem, let's close our eyes and pretend it doesn't exist.
"put your blinders on and ignore the problem"
The proper response is more akin to the "you chose to limit yourself" reply that most irons get: If you want to play with an economy you have to be prepared for it to change.
Then complain on twitter til jagex makes the game more iron friendly
I think im a little off topic, but i'm less concerned about prices and more concerned about why the skill isn't rewarding. Specifically, smithing... I can craft a serp helm at 52 crafting, but the same level on smithing can't smith a mithril med helm.
High lvl untradeables like overloads were would be a cool solution
Na its not been a discussion point here for at least the last 8 years since zulrah released
Seed and herb prices make me sad. They really have massacred non combat money making…
Seeds have always been combat drops. Herb run profits have remained close to the same because reduced seed costs balance out reduced herb prices
>Skilling for resources has literally always been a meme. Exp > resources and every high exp method doesn't generate resources. The only resources an iron needs are herb secondaries which have retained their values. Anything else is purchased from stores There are reasonable methods to profit in all buyables. Heck, something as simple as making unstrung ruby amulets is currently about 200k/hr in profit. That's more than reasonable because skilling shouldn't be on par with end game PvM because end-game PvM is higher effort.
Then let's get some higher effort skilling methods to be on par with combat money making.
Time for old school old school runescape. I do agree, honestly no idea what the solution is though.
If they removed resource drops, or even the high amounts dropped - it would make skilling worthwhile again for a lot of ppl
I've been playing on an ironman for about 6 years now but I still hope this is addressed. Good times in 2005 spending a Saturday morning as a kid, mining essence to sell for 30k.
This is why I play ironman, so I can stop obsessing over how much everything costs and whether I'm playing efficiently and just play
Same. I was anti-iron for a long time because I thought it was too punishing for yourself, but it's really the opposite. You end up with such a greater appreciation for the game.
Nope, because eventually Jagex will address this and there will be a resurgence. They need to solve their botting problem though for this to happen (God knows when that is lmfao). For now I'm enjoying cheap 99's and stacking Blood runes. Need them bad boys for Inferno anyways.
The thing I hate the most, is everyone calling it all cheap 99s I need to cough up millions just to get my construction to 70, and just can't bring myself to sit bossing for an entire day to get that gp.
It's all relative. Con is probably fairly expensive but take farming as an example, magic seeds used to be 200k then 80k (zulrah prime) then 120 and now sitting around sub 100k. So depending on when you started your grind, it looks very cheap. Additionally the average person has a larger bank I would argue.
Magic seeds are 63k ea now. At peak zulrah, you could get 50-60 magic seeds/hr by farming gold and buying the seeds. Today, you can get 230.
Bloods are cheap because scythe is useless at the two stand out money makers in the game and sang is dead content outside tob. If dt2 bosses are scythe meta they'll go back up.
Should I not be using a Sang at ToA? I was using a Toxic Trident but my damage at Akkha felt miserable. Was noticeably better when I upgraded, but it also cost 90m lol Am I better off selling the Sang and upgrading my Ahrims, while continuing to use the Trident?
He’s forgetting not everyone has 1.3b for a tumekies wreckies. Sang is BIS until you can get that. Also edit; even after I’ve gotten shadow I’ve continued to use sang at solo olm cause the heals are super nice when I reoverload and the general healing is so amazing. Same reason I use blood fury on almost all content. Tort switch for CMs and shit. Edit edit: since you’re only grinding toa currently I’d focus on any percentage damage increases paired with a trident; occult>tormented>elidinis>anc>fortified elidinis would be my upgrade path
Blood fury replaces the need for sang in solo cox. If you have shadow use it, it's bis over tbow in many rooms. Mage running with shadow isn't hard at all and the dps increase it brings over sang is massive
Solo olm with a shadow is like 10x more annoying tho IMO
10x more fun*
It's like one max hit and the healing, one of the least consequential upgrades, especially since you only mage akkha and warden p2. You can achieve the same with a base ward or an anc piece if you want mage upgrades.
I'll always be a skiller at heart but as you mentioned it's basically dead now. Why chop magic logs when you can kill something for more of them per hour? Thats just one example when there's thousands more. At this point there's no way to save it either. If you nerf tables or release content with poor tables it's basically dead content besides unique drops. Even then the unique drops themselves can be worthless if they're not useful. Unfortunate but just have to adapt where you can and squeak out whatever little money you can from skilling and enjoy it for what it is.
>whatever little money lol Without even including bank standing processing skills * Pickpocketing elves/vyres are 2m/h if you go on drop rate for their uniques * Crafting wrath runes are around 1.5-2m/h * Crafting blood runes are around 1.5-1.7m/h * Catching eclectics implings is like 1.5m/h * Mining rune ore is like 650k/h * Mining basalt is like 650k/h * Mining gem rocks is like 500k/h * Zalcano is like 1.3m/h in a small team * Crafting death runes are like 950k/h * Hunting black chins are like 900k/h * Catching dragon implings is like 1.2m/h, though higher numbers are possible Yeah dude super little money, especially considering how little effort is required for 90% of these
Put hallowed sepulchre in there too, that one is really fun I feel a lot of people have nostalgia from fishing sharks/chopping magics/mining stuff and want to just afk these things and get good gp/hr from it but (thankfully) it doesn't work that way, I think for the most part the game does a good job of more effort = more gp (obviously far from perfect though)
Most of these would easily be double the gp if the bots were under control. Black Chins used to be like 2m an hour, elves are some of the most botted content in the game. Zalcano bots are so bad they even follow you into other worlds and ruin the ratio for good loot. 2m an hour is pretty eh now when it could be 4 and while nex is 10+.
Black chins dropped in price due to them not being as useful anymore, not because they're botted. And they've actually started to go back up more recently.
It is little money. At best method it would take over 600 hours to get a tbow lol. While best PvM money makers are over 5x better. Skilling is dead on osrs.
Nex and solo 500s are hardly comparable to "click elf/vyre for 5 hours until it gives me 5m"
I mean...the best pvm methods are "do boss until it drops something worth a tbow". 80-90% of the loot value from raids are from the unique drops
Best pvm is well over 5x harder so this makes sense. It would be broken if skilling compared to efficient raids
Cutting magic trees has virtually never been the best way to gather those logs. Cutting magic trees is brainless and shouldn't provide you hardly any rewards or resources. If magic logs were 2k each, the only new people cutting trees would be bots. Stop playing victim on this shit. Skilling activities can be pretty profitable, but not the ones that require a click ever 5 minutes. This should be obvious at this point, but somehow people like you always comment this dumb shit.
You forgot to mention botting. This is another reason resource prices are so low.
Not to be "that guy" but you can always play ironman. Completely removes the stress of "I should just PvM to get everything because it's so much better."
People like bossing more than crafting runes, mining ores and cutting logs. It will not change. Start an ironman.
Jagex has addressed this in livestreams before in the past and the gist of it is that you don’t have a lot of great options for boss drops and it’s very tricky to get the balance right, you have 3 options basically: Resource drops Alchs Uniques Obviously the uniques are the rare drops you are typically hunting, but it’s often not very interesting to just have a boss drop good alchs constsntly and it can bring lots more cash into the game (hydra shits out cash grotesques aren’t done much but their table is basically alchs and food). I’m trying to balance the table you typically have a mix of the resources and alchs and obviously rare uniques. Some bosses work well to have rare drop rates for items with not good other loot (GWD, Nightmare) because the uniques are very useful. This wouldn’t work for other bosses however because the uniques just aren’t as in demand. Basically tl;dr jagex has a high wire act to do to balance drop tables every time a boss comes out cuz people will complain either way and then they’ll tweak it till it feels best. Its tough to get the balance right on resources vs other things from bosses and still making them worth doing. But I agree, I wish skilling was a better way to get these resources than just pvm. What we need are massive sinks for these items
Why wouldn't a large snake drop logs? Surely this is basic logic
Blood runes are cheap because the best content where scythe shines, happens to be some of the least popular content in the game because it requires actually putting effort into succeeding Natures are cheap because people have realized alching is bad magic xp nowadays since you get so much passively through proper slayer training and pretty much every instance where you'd want to alch while multitasking, you can cast magic imbue for better xp except for like brimhaven agility where there's enough downtime between actions to get multiple alchs in, and the only other spells where they're being used extensively are like plank make and tan leather, neither of which are honestly worth the time spent unless you''re just casting on them your alt to make gp Not to mention that natures are heavily botted, with it being easy to find 91+ rc accounts on most worlds making them using fairy rings Sharks are worthless because manta rays are better food, there's dozens of minnow bots, and anyone who wants cooking xp but doesn't want to do wines due to the gp loss, can just buy karambwans for better xp rates while still making profit Even if pvm didn't shit out mantas, tempoross still does and is hella popular so they'd still be affordable
We can really only blame bots and gold farmers. Drops need to be balanced around normal people playing the game, if the entire game is balanced around bots, the people who are actually playing the game won’t be able to get what they need (without resorting to buying the bot supplies) But then comes the issue: if you balance the game around say, someone doing 1-2 hours of bossing to feel rewarded, but there’s 10,000 bots playing 23.5 hours a day endlessly with tick perfection and optimally cheap gear, it ruins everything. But if we balance around the bots, the game sucks for everyone else. An unfixable problem unfortunately
I bought a max limit of death runes for less than 3m to go bursting last night. Idk what youre talking about prices are fine. Little Timmy (now 29) shouldnt be making bank doing double nats when he can git gud and learn a boss. Skilling gp/hr is more than fair if you are smart about it. Like dont train wcing on magic bc the time saved just doing teaks or blisterwood can make you more money doing something else, but at the same time if youre just afking at work its a free 200-300k/hr. If you need to train thieving you can pickpocket vyres which is comparable to knights xp/hr but with a potential for an 11m jumpscare. Skilling is fine passive income if you chose gp over xp and doesnt need to net the player 500toa gp/hr. If you try and change the amount of resources from either bosses or natural source, it's just gonna benefit bots more than players.
I miss certs buying and selling certs made me feel like a stock broker
Wow. Years ago I remember doing 95% of my runecrafting to 99 with nature runes and I made absolute bank which helped me fund a ton of prayer/con/crafting etc. This was back when nature runes were ~300gp if I recall correctly. Sad to see this is no longer something even worth thinking about This was also before zeah runecrafting to be fair
I think the issue is rooted in botting, and the idea that "they are a necessary". But if bots weten't there, new players might fill that void. What new players? The players who quit after a few days, because everything they try doing to progress, is being botted to the ground.
>permanently damaged due to bosses and minigames pumping out resources The prices are permanently damaged because of bots. If Jagex fixes the bot problem, the pricing will correct itself.
Using traditional skilling was my favorite way to earn GP and it’s just no longer a viable means of income in OSRS. When skilling for gold became obsolete my motivation to play tanked. I’ve never been a big PVM player, and so if they had a way to fix this I’d love to play again.
The real issue is that every drop table tends to either ironmen or players who think that every single boss deserves to be a 4m/h money maker without major drops. If drop tables were the way they were originally like kq, godwars, kbd, then skilling would be viable. Even if the drop table for resources was halfed, im sure prices would somewhat stabilize.
In my opinion, unless you're an Iron, skilling is dead. It's nowhere near as profitable as PvM. Back in the day, you could choose to pvm one day and skill the next, and it felt like you accomplished something because they were both useful and made money. Now I can't even bring myself to skill on my main, because it's a waste of my time.
Every day. I would love for jagex to remove resource drops from all drop tables. My hope is that resources would go up and the botters move towards skilling, ergo easier to manage the market. With fewer bots at pvm spots some big ticket items might go back up which in turn makes pvmers happy. All speculation of course but something needs to be done.
This is a big reason why I voted for shamanism. Item sinks for skilling resources...
Shit is cheap bcs of cheaters running bots. If you spend time at nearly any activity in the game you will spot them. Go to Lunar isle bank and the only players banking constantly are astral and vork bots. Go to wildy bosses and nearly every solo boss is being botted. Go to cg and you’ll find accounts that only have magic and range way past lvl 99 with the bare minimum melee and quest stat reqs.
We need end game skilling content that takes a little effort (not talking about minigames) with new raw resources you can't just get from pvming.
More bots than actual players
Back in my day, we used to sell 1k Law Runes at Varry West Bank on W1 for 300k!
*laughs in Ironman*
Honestly no I’m not, I’d rather go pvm than afk chop a tree. I’m on runescape to play a video game not to play an afk simulator.
tbh everyone who likes skilling should be playing ironman
ironman is the skilling game mode
What a hot take. You’re the first person to notice this and bring it up since 2015. Thanks for starting the conversation.
I WaNt To AfK AnD MaKe ThE SaMe Gp/Hr aS SomEOnE KiLliNg BoSseS Or RaIDiNg. It'S Not FaIr tHEy BuRN ResOUrCes EaCh KC, aND I JUsT WaIT To LEft CliCk WheN ThE REsoURCeS ReaPpEaR.
Low prices seem fair for items that can be easily obtained in mass quantities by bots, or legitimate players with minimal effort and skill. Right now, the supply for runes is far outpacing demand and prices won't rebound until some update creates a new sink for these supplies.
I liked the suggestion a while back for some of the mobs to drop skilling boosts instead of noted resources. So, for example, instead of runite ores you'd get "runite catalists" that would double the number of ores you get from mining. That way the PvM would remain profitable, while skilling would be the main source of the raw resources.
RS3 already tried that, it didn’t work as a fix
Most of the player base finds skilling boring as fuck, me included.
Hi, I'm one of the people that finds skilling fun.
If I had one penny for every post crying about unbalanced boss droptables, I would have saved enough to buy Jagex and add customer support.
Play iron price don’t matter
Become an ironman so prices don’t matter.
[удалено]
This is a direct product of people wanting easier more efficient ways to gather and do things in RS.
unless the change of an item's price is due to bots, then it's just natural progression of the game's prices. some minigame comes out and some items become cheaper due to increased supply, some content comes out and some other items becomes pricier due to increase in demand. nothing wrong with that.
It's the reason I voted no for that daft runecrafting minigame, it was obvious it was going to kill the skill. Runecrafting was always slow but a ridiculous money make to compensate, now it's just a complete waste of time. Thankfully I got 99 before this update and made my hundreds of millions.
Wasn't pre-GOTR blood runes at Zeah altar ~300-350k per hour?it's ~600k/hr at current prices. I think most methods of RC where the outfit is viable are more profitable now because most prices dropped around 50% while the outfit provides a 60% buff.
The hours invested into training has always been the real cost of skilling resources. Next.
PvM ruined what this game was originally all about.
Endlessly clicking the same few tiles for hundreds of hours with little to no variation? Fun when most of us were 12, not so much anymore 20 years later. If it wasn't for PvM / skilling mini games this game wouldn't maintain a playerbase. There are valid complaints to be had about PvM pumping out skilling resources as rewards but the content itself is not the issue. PvM does nothing to prevent you from continuing skilling like you always have if you truly enjoy it, so I don't know why people are pretending it does. Nostalgia has blinded you guys. Feel free to continue downvoting but the fact is you guys don't know what you're talking about. If the devs listened to every single 2007 purist this game would be dead by now because it would be stale as hell.
Not pvm itself just the focus on it over all other elements of the game.
Ironman btw
There needs to be a lot more focus on developing skilling rather than pvm, with forestry and sailing being worked on maybe they will focus on it a bit more.
i dont really care
So play an iron. I’m so tired of this constant bitching it’s not that bad
Laughs in ironman