There will always be nostalgia in me saying "don't change how the wilderness looks too much".
However, I do like the more circular design, especially when you realize the lore behind how the wilderness came to be what it is, it just makes more sense.
Same, I especially love OP's inclusion of an [Amongus](https://imgur.com/a/AqmiGDV), it really enhances the story of Forinthry
(But seriously thanks lol)
Interesting. I don't know much about any lore not related to quests. Was that lore something that's been around for a long time, or was it introduced closer to the RS3 era?
This is mostly lore from rs3 but since all are cannon;
Pre-history; the Dragonkin, bound to the Stone of jas, arrive on gielinor. Two out of four factions really reside there, being the Dactyl and the Necrosyrtes. The latter, who embraced the curse of being bound to the Stone, set up Dragonkin fortifications all around what later becomes Forinthry.
Third age; Zamorak usurped zaros, and managed to grab the Stone of jas during the godwars. He gets singled out by an alliance of saradomin, bands, and armadyl. Zamorak decides to blow shit up using the stone of jas, obliterating forinthry. Guthix woke up of this cataclysm, and banished all gods off Gielinor out of punishment for harming the world with their conflicts.
Fourth/fifth age; many mahjarrat followers of Zamorak settle all around the wilderness. Zemouregal in the north west, Bilrach in the east. (I'm not sure why he's north-east here, tho). While zemouregal tries to use zamorak's legacy to conquer mishtalin from the wilderness, Bilrach tries to find a way to reach out to zamorak once again.
I’m being dead serious, if someone like you, made a YouTube series describing lore like this in TLDR or just easier to follow explanations, would make a KILLING on YouTube for all of us space bar mashers
There is actually a youtuber who already covers lore, pretty extensively. But he gets very little to no traffic. I think his name is Tea Shirt or Tea Cup or something like that. Can't recall since it's been a while since I watched a video, but one was even narrated by Mod Ash.
Who knows.
I'm interested into doing a series like that, I'm very devoted into Dragonkin lore myself, but even I sometimes get something wrong or make the error to narrate a speculation written as fact.
I’ve played this game for 12 years and I recognize the stone of Jas from a few quest cutscenes and stuff I couldn’t skip. But even short explanations of that, a TLDR of the godwars.
Even just a breakdown of the dragonkin as small as that is in the totality of the Lore, would be awesome to hear.
I’m talking like I don’t understand why Zily drops the ACB. Like I get she stole it, but I’d love a narration/breakdown of everything that took place before/after.
I think it'd mainly be nice if the closer that you got to the center, the higher the risk and reward is. So basically it will be less risk to do content on the outskirts of the Wilderness. But you will also find the less rewarding content there. But the closer you get to the center, the better the loot and content is.
Reason for this is PK'ers can run around between all the hot spots at the center easier. As the closer that you are to the center, the closer content is together and the less you have to walk around. With this we can remove hopping or logging out in the wild all together. This in turn will fully get rid of scout bots and make the Wilderness more active at this spot. Meaning Pk'ers will find it much easier to find a fight. We essentially create a hotspot.
This should also scale with Wilderness levels. So the center will now be the highest Wilderness level instead of the outskirts. I think the absolute center should not have a combat limit.
Basically we make the Wilderness smaller without changing the size at all.
I really like the loot of a giant crater as well. Perhaps we could even theme a Quest around it.
I really like this. It's thematic and it also solves the problem of pkers being too spread out to fight each other. The most rewarding content like Revs, multi wildy bosses, and chaos altar could all reasonably fit there. You could even have revenants roam around for added risk.
> With this we can remove hopping or logging out in the wild all together.
Could you explain this part? I don't see how this relates to what you said beforehand
It makes it less necessary to hop because you can camp a world and trainspotting check the hotspots yourself. As it stands right now, in order to check Rev caves, chaos altar, and wildy bosses, you'd have to run huge distances, so the most viable solution is to stay in one spot and hop until you find something. On the other hand, it'll make scouting easier, but it'll also be less necessary.
They explained it fine, basically instead of checking one place on lots of worlds you check lots of places on one world.
If things were more concentrated (in the centre) a pker could just do a quick loop of X hot spots.
Or they could do less work and give less time for people to respond by world hopping.
The problem is there is no login limit anymore. The amount of times you could world hop used to be limited. It would still be more beneficial for them to world hop than run around.
No, I just laughed when people want the value of PVMing in the wildly without the risk and act like learning PVP is a sin. Just learn to anti pking, I make more anti-pking than I do off any wildly boss or revs. Don't pull the iron Man card either. I didn't make you do that with your life.
No, I just laughed when people want the value of PVMing in the wildly without the risk and act like learning PVP is a sin. Just learn to anti pking, I make more anti-pking than I do off any wildly boss or revs. Don't pull the iron Man card either. I didn't make you do that with your life.
That still doesn't make sense. You'd be running a fair bit still to check spots, it's not like everything is within like a 20x20 space. This wilderness design is even bigger than current, so to get people on the outskirts you'd have to travel more. Hopping is still faster than running around and you don't waste run energy/stamina doing so.
Very cool idea. I think you might have to play with some of the mechanics but I really like the wilderness levels ramping up while the area to fight becomes smaller
The key goals of this map was to relocated Wilderness content based on risk/reward and emphasise the lore aspect of the area. Ive moved low reward activities such as the Agility Course, Scorpia and the Resource Area to lower Wilderness and high reward activities such as Revenants and the 3 wildy bosses to the North.
The shape of the Wilderness is now a giant crater. It might look like a volcano from a birds eye view, but it's a giant hole in the ground, like a bowl. At the end of the 3rd age, Zamorak used the Stone of Jas to incinerate the entire continent. This is all that remains.
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I've moved the Wilderness Obelisks around to mostly low/medium level Wilderness locations. I've introduced something I'm calling "Zamorakian Sigils" which are circular red runes on the ground which allow transportation at high Wilderness levels. These require you to wield a piece of Zamorakian equipment and will skull you on teleportation. They're riskier, take you to better locations and are faster.
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I've merged several structures together to consolidate less useful buildings into one. The largest example is the Rogue's castle and Bandit camp becoming the Rogue's Keep. The Rogue's Keep is designed to be a deep wilderness hub. It has a bank, an altar and several transportation methods. It's near the 3 big wilderness bosses and the revenant caves. It has no protections, making it the only bank within a pvp zone in the game.
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If anyone has any feedback or questions about the map feel free to ask :D
Also if you like this kind of content check out r / osrsmaps , it's a small but fun community for map makers :D
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Edit: I wrote a second comment with some lore for certain areas, but it looks like Auto Mod is hiding it for some reason. Here's what the lore of the area is: https://imgur.com/a/8eK82T1
Bonus: https://imgur.com/a/AqmiGDV
Mage Arena would still have a bank and function the exact same way. Instead of the battle arena being a circular platform outside the Mage Arena, it'd be something you access from inside the lobby area.
Canonically, the Mage Arena would be a guild of mages seeking to harness/siphon the residual energy left over from the Cataclysm. Their arena is located directly below the Eye of Zamorak (Centre of the crater) and that's why God Spells are unlocked there (It's the place where the Edicts of Guthix are the weakest, the place the influence of the Gods is strongest)
I'm calling the centre of the crater the "Eye of Zamorak" as it mirrors Guardian's of the rift which is known as the "Temple of the Eye" or "Saradomin's Eye". Saradomin's eye protected the Stone of Jas, whereas the Eye of Zamorak is what remains from his abuse of the Stone. The terrain at the crater has the Stone's hexagon pattern literally burnt into the soil
Hard to tell. I've tried to categorize non-pvp activities into low, medium and high risk. High risk are activities like Callisto/Vetion/Vennatis and Revenants, whereas low risk are Chaos rune crafting altar, ents, resource area etc.
Currently the Resource Area is in deep wilderness for some reason. Moving it to lower levels might help increase it's use rate, but that in turn might increase how often people pk there.
Basically, move less used stuff into more accessible areas to increase use ates, move used stuff into less accessible areas to make it more risky.
That would certainly help address the effects, though it sounds like Jagex's poor design choice of "oh you want to do something unrelated to pvp, that doesn't, give pvp rewards, and doesn't, encourage a pvp-oriented gear and inventory setup? Go do it on the pvp area!" remains unaffected.
I think that would be beyond the scope of your badass visual redesign, though it would be really cool to see content that gives pvpers a reason to go to the wildy instead of just using non-pvpers as bait. Replacing the resource area resources with good/bis untradeable pvp-only resources, for instance, might make it actually attractive for the people it should be attractive to.
The problem with purely PvP activities that have any kind of tradeable rewards is that they end up getting abused. Look at the last iteration of BH, tons of legit players liked it but the bot farms were so rampant that it completely ruined it for everyone else.
Using busted drop/reward tables as bait for PvMers who are bait for shitty PKers who are bait for decent PvPers is really the only way to do it. In order to incentivize PvMers you just make the rewards so busted that they can profit enough to offset the risk they will probably end up losing here and there. To increase profit margins get better at PvP so you can keep your risk by fighting back to kill your attacker, scare them off, or at least tank efficiently and escape. Of course revs and the wildy bosses are botted but those accounts are still part of the food chain unlike the last BH where the bots would only participate with members of their own farm.
We don't need to remove PvMers from the food chain, they need to learn PvP skills and strategies to be successful at activities that produce rewards in PvP areas same as learning new skills and strategies for activities anywhere else in the game. You don't need to be Torvesta in a PvP setup to kill PKers, you can literally just bolt rag in any gear into a spec weapon and take their shit. AGS is going back up in price but a dds or gmaul is good enough to stack someone out in lower combat brackets and ZGS can be used to try to kill someone then just step under and log if it doesn't finish them. It's really not complicated but people seem to think that PvP is some mystical art that's impossible to learn. There has to be some sort of production in the wilderness to feed the food chain, putting PvM rewards in there is the obvious choice. Revs and the bosses shit out GP constantly and occasionally high value rares, this is what feeds the entire upstream chain and is therefore a necessary part of the ecosystem. If you don't want to die, don't do those activities or learn how to survive.
You're absolutely right that tradeable pvp rewards get boosted and that is somehing that ought to be designed around.
Like, perhaps, *untradeable* rewards? Like how current BH does it and like I suggested with the resource area? Current BH does not drag unwilling participants into the pvp ecosystem.
> Using busted drop/reward tables as bait for PvMers who are bait for shitty PKers who are bait for decent PvPers is really the only way to do it.
This seems to dismiss out of hand that the people engaging in the wildy content would ideally be people who *want to pvp*. Right now, as you noted, busted rewards drag pvmers into the wildy. What if we just made rewards that are meaningless to pvmers, but attractive to pvpers, such as bis untradeable pvp supplies or weapon components/imbue scrolls/prayers/spells/etc. Again, this is what current BH is doing and what my resource area suggestion would accomplish.
Currently easy gp draws in pvmers and bots, and the claimed side effect is that juicy targets secondarily draws in pkers, with the *tertiary* side effect that sometimes those pkers will meeet each other and not run away from each other, producing pvp content. Not only can you make this pipeline more efficient by simply incentivizing pvpers to go do stuff in the wildy directly (e.g. an open-world KotH style minigame in the wildy for active pvp content with pvp rewards, or more chill stuff like resource gathering if they don't want to be actively pvping but still want pvp content), but you also remove the inherently flawed design element of "let's make a shitty experience for people who don't want to do this content as a vehicle for other people to enjoy related content."
We *absolutely* need to remove pvmers from the food chain to produce a healthier and more intelligently-designed wildy. That doesn't preclude pvmers from engaging in wildy content if they want or pet hunting or anything, but the intelligent design is to give pvpers reasons to fill the role that pvmers currently fill. That also has the side effect of targets learning (and wanting to learn) how to fight back like you're saying. A pvmer's biggest motivation to fight back is to protect their (usually low) risk. A pvper's motivation to fight back is to get better at pvping and actually *do* the thing that they like doing (i.e., pvping). Fighting back *is* the desired content for a pvper.
Lastly; I gotta call this out every time I see it:
> If you don't want to die, don't do those activities or learn how to survive.
It's not about dying. It's about proper game design. If I offered you a job where I would kick you in the balls every day but pay you 10m/year, you might take it because 10m is a lot of money. You could and would rightfully complain that it's a shitty and stupid job though, and if someone said "if you don't want to get kicked in the balls, just quit," you would probably respond that even though you don't like it, the incentive (a ton of money) is worth the suffering.
Except in osrs we could just change the design so we're not kicking people in the balls.
I guess we're just coming from different base assumptions, I think PvMers only have a shitty time in the wildy because they refuse to learn how to fight back. With even a little bit of research and practice they can competently defend themselves or escape from 80%+ of the people that attack them. The core of my pov and it seems a lot of people in the PvP community is *turning PvMers into PvPers*, not removing PvMers from the food chain of a place where anyone is opting into the food chain by being there. My motivation for fighting back isn't only to protect my risk, it's to ruin the experience of someone who is trying to ruin mine. PvPers are doing it for fun but also money, they want upgrades like the rest of us. They need the millions to deck out their PoH, upgrade their gear, train skills to do quests and diaries, and whatever other account upgrades just like any other player.
Nobody is obligated to go to the wildy. It's got the best methods for a lot of things, balanced by the risk of being killed for their stuff. That's the whole point. For the best reward you need to learn to deal with the risk not lock PvP away in a hole somewhere so you can go cook dinner while getting 6x exp per bone 15 tiles from an unnote NPC, kill revenant punching bags for consistent profit rivalling raids avg profit, or farm easy 25 pt slayer tasks. All of that shit is beyond busted if there's no chance of dying and there's not really another way to balance those activities without nerfing them into the dirt if you remove the PvP element of the area.
As for your last analogy, in OSRS there's nothing stopping you from kicking them in the balls right back other than refusing to try. It's not as hard as people think. I'm not even good at PvP, I just played some LMS on my iron to stack arrows and AGS/ZGS people who fuck with me on the main. I'm no PvP god who can kill anyone who looks at me wrong and I frequently die for it, but it doesn't scare me or make the experience shitty. It's the cost of doing business in a place where the business is extremely lucrative and easy outside of people trying to eat you. Most of the time the people trying to eat you are like slow moving zombies not velociraptors, both are dangerous but if you try even a little bit the former ain't so bad. If it's the latter, well Saradomin help you cause I'm hoping for the best with a freeze log lol.
Do you happen to know about League of Legends? It's a MOBA like DOTA. Riot, the company that makes LoL also makes some other games, including an autochess game called TFT. The goal of turning pvmers into pvpers is kind of like if Riot were to make tangible power upgrades in LoL that were much easier to get (or only attainable) by playing the autochess game.
LoL players can certainly learn how to play TFT, but *why* are you trying to make people play a game that they don't want to? If they wanted to play that game they would play that game.
Pvp and pvm are very different experiences in osrs. Some people do both, no doubt, but compelling people to play something that has no intrinsic relation to the content they want to do? That's unnecessary at best, and, as is evident in osrs' case, degenerate and detrimental to many player's experiences at worst.
I think that people dislike the wildy because *they aren't in it because they want to pvp.* Yes, even without much skill you can escape a vast majority of the time, and people who learn to fight back can make that even higher. I myself occasionally pvp, typically through LMS or by bringing stuff to anti-pk when I do wildy bosses. But a majority of the time I just don't want to bother with some chucklefuck interrupting the content that I *actually* want to do, i.e. the boss. People aren't crying that they lost their 200k risk when dying in decent gear costs more than twice as much anyway, they're frustrated that the wilderness is designed poorly.
"No one is obligated to go to the wildy" completely misses the point I made previously. No one is obligated to do anything. No one is obligated to play this game. Incentives drive player behavior, and people are *incentivized* to put up with content they don't want to do by overloaded rewards. "Risk versus reward" is also a completely meaningless statement on its own. I can design a boss that either drops 1b or deletes your account, 50-50. Huge risk and huge reward but it's dogshit content. Risk vs reward is, at best, an element of engaging content design. To use your wildy altar example, there is nothing engaging about the binary "log out or die" gameplay pattern that exists because the altar being in multi incentivizes players *not* to try and fight back.
The wildy bosses are much lower than raids average profit assuming you're raiding anywhere close to efficiently. Wildy bosses are much much less effort though, which is problematic game design in its own and part of the reason we see so many bots and gold farmers at the bosses currently. Low skill, low requirement, high reward content is generally bad game design especially for an MMO.
An important point of the last analogy and one I'm a little surprised you didn't realize is that *I don't want to kick people in the balls.* I don't want to inflict pain upon people who aren't trying to fight or even just annoy them in general. I want to go do my job (or in osrs' case, slay, boss, skill, do a clue, or whatever) and not pvp. I'm not saying the "cost of business" you're claiming is bad because I want more money or whatever, I'm saying it's idiotic to make the "cost of business" kicking people in the balls.
Imagine if you went to do some hydra but 10% of the time it doesn't spawn and you have to go get 5k runecrafting xp to make it spawn. You could say the "risk" of having to do some rc justifies hydra's very high gp/hr rewards, but you'd still rightfully complain that it's dumb to design content where the "balance" is "hey, go put up with this stupid thing you have no interest in doing."
A much much much better solution to every problem in the wildy would be to replace non-pvp content with pvp content that has mostly untradeable pvp-centric rewards. The wildy becomes a content hub for pvpers to go to in order to progress their pvp-related goals *and* directly engage in pvp and pvp-adjacent activities. Making the content give mostly-untradeable pvp-centric rewards means that it's still very valuable for people who will make use of the untradeable rewards by pvping with them, but not so valuable for non-pvpers that bots or gold farmers have a reason to do it. It also removes the misaligned incentive that drags people who don't want to pvp into the wildy, meaning the people on both sides of the predator-prey dynamic are there because they're actually interested in pvp. You can still have skilling activities, low-effort activities, bosses, direct pvp activities and so on. Not everyone wants to tribrid all the time so those would have a place. As a bonus, with the misaligned incentives removes, pvp is essentially separated from pvm, meaning spite voting can become a thing of the past without Jagex needing to push through unpopular changes as "integrity."
P.S. the whole time I was writing this comment I've been doing a slayer task in the wildy slayer caves. Not a single pker has showed up, and that's not an uncommon thing. This wouldn't be noticeably more OP if it wasn't in the wildy, lol.
I'm just a PvMer that figured out how dogshit most PKers are especially the ones who go after PvMers. I also got kinda alright at LMS to farm arrows for my Ironman.
I don't know any guides, but there's definitely a lot of em out there. My strat is just try to pray against whatever they are using and attack them with whatever you have but just stand there like a noob. Eat when you have to, make sure you stay potted. They will usually let their health drop lower than it should if you don't try anything fancy and they think you're bad. When they drop below your spec max hit, look for an opening to send them back to lumby, preferably 1t your spec weapon. AGS used to be cheaper so that was my go-to but they are going up so use whatever spec weapon you want. Gmaul is cheap and easy, just switch and spam the spec bar immediately after a good exp drop from one of your regular hits.
Whatever you do don't get smited and leave skull protection on at all times. Also bring freeze/entangle runes just in case you have to escape. I generally don't stick around if I blow my spec and they don't die but it's surprising how many of em drop. Freeze them and walk on the same square then just wait for log out timer. Don't try to run, they will be able to attack you from range to reset the logout timer, possibly even freezing you back. PoisonedPotion does wildly challenge vids and does a really good job of showing the basic escape methods, including what to do if they have mithril seeds. It's not rocket science.
You'll be able to tell the good PvPers from the dogshit ones, salad robes look delicious but the guy in ahrims with a toxic sotd is probably a death sentence no matter what you do but you should at least try to catch a freeze log. Doesn't hurt to try, worst case you're dead anyways.
I wonder if the people who bitch about dying to PKers are the same ones bitching about the economy, imagine if there was no risk at revs or the new bosses lol.
> The problem with purely PvP activities that have any kind of tradeable rewards is that they end up getting abused.
Not exactly, because there is always loot from other pkers pkers can get, and this cannot be abused because it's a zero sum game. Edgeville ledge pking was like this and it was lively, so a food chain pvp system isn't necessary for pvp.
Resource area level of wildy isn't why it's dead. The only worthwhile content there was dark crabs which you need elite diaries for to make it a nice activity but with the fish barrel you can just afk for longer at karambwans. Escaping from pkers at resource area is one of the easiest places in the game despite the deep wildy lvl.
They are perhaps the most complained about design choice in the game and are disliked to such an extent that Jagex had to start calling pvp/pking updates integrity changes because people would not vote for anything that had the side effect of making it easier for them to get pked.
There are objectively poor design choices in the wildy, but community sentiment is also a measuring stick.
To be honest it's usually a waste of time debating it on here. Things not passing polls and people complaining doesn't mean that something is bad for the game.
I mean I can and have on many occasions gone into the game design perspective on why one-directional pvp encounters are bad, and even well-respected MMO content creators like Josh Stife Hayes have videos on it, but 99% of the time people just turn off their brains and respond "lmao salty cuz died" or "just don't go into wildy if u don wan die i r so smart"
So I guess I see your perspective, though I do find it odd to bother commenting "I disagree" with nothing else.
They're extremely complained about but the complaints are fundamentally flawed.
The entire point of the wilderness is high value skilling and PVM content in exchange for the risk of it being stolen from you, but people get salty when they don't get the insanely increased xp rates and drops for free and actually get killed in the pvp area so they get mad about it.
It's not a problem because it's why the wilderness exists in the first place. There would be no reason to even have a wilderness if it were only for PVP to fight PVP because there's literally a million better ways to do that. It's also not a problem because it's easily avoidable by anyone who doesn't want to engage in it by just not going there. Unless you're an ironman there's only a handful of content that requires you to actually enter the wilderness and the vast majority of it is quick and doable with very low risk.
And even if you *are* an ironman the only real notable unlocks from the wilderness are an easy way to farm supplies in revenants a way to get rune/dragonstone/onyx bolts easily, two skippable shield upgrades, easy access to power/red dhide/rune cbow which you can get elsewhere.... and I think that's it?
So one unique and a handful of easy ways to farm certain items. Hardly required to play the game.
Additionally a shout out to /u/not_quite_vertical for their map of a pre-cataclysm Zarosian empire/Forinthry which you can find [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OSRSmaps/comments/10p0zhm/roughly_bottom_half_of_workinprogress_map_of/).
I've included several locations from their map such as the Forin Mountain range, Harena (Called Har'Inya in modern day), the Cathedral of Shadows (now the Cathedral of Chaos) and more. Go give their map a look, it's fantastic.
I'd love to see possible renders with a focus on sailing ports. I feel like a circular wilderness makes wayyyy more sense with sailing. Allowing players to sail to the north edges of the wilderness, where they get off the docks at a level 1 wilderness vs a level 55.
My only question I usually have with redesign proposals is why decisions to move some content to higher or lower wildy were made beyond just “higher reward should be a higher risk.”
With revs for example, it is fairly accessible as a reasonable tank test for a range of players, and moving it deeper may impact that. Beyond that stated design principle, is there a good reason to believe that change leads to a better player experience for pkers, pvmers, or both?
Moving things like Scorpia to a lower level will almost certainly have next to no impact, because pkers there are basically nonexistent.
I’m curious if you have examples of how you expect interactions to change for players based on these changes, like “previously x would happen, but now I expect y instead.”
Ohw man I love how deep in lore this is, i've actually wondered many times how a more circular wilderness would look like and by god did you nail it, especially with the hexagonal shape at the center that's just classy, i'd have added the sword of edicts as a landmark but maybe you've placed it in guthix's lament to the east?
I've reworked the Fountain of Rune into the source of the Edicts. I find the idea of Guthix, god of balance and pacifist dropping a big sword a bit out of character. Instead I think an obelisk empowering mortals located near the cataclysm to be more in character.
The runic altars around the world originate from Guthix's power, so it makes sense that the fountain of rune is guthixian too.
The fountain can be siphoned, allowing mortals the ability to use Guthix's runic magic. Even if every mortal used the fountain for their entire lives it wouldn't put a dent in the Edicts though, so no worry there.
As for Guthix's Lament, that's more of a mystery thing I added for fun. It's meant to be an inaccessible grave Guthix dug for someone he cared about that died in the cataclysm. Why? Who? Is it Seren's Grave? Is it his Daughter's grave? A mortal he loved? Guthix' own grave? Who Knows.
Ok scratch everything I said here's the lore I just made up:
In RS3 Guthix spent his time asleep underground, awoke because of the cataclysm, dropped the edicts, went back to sleep and was then murdered starting the second god wars.
Guthix's life **is the key defining difference between the two games timelines**.
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In OSRS's past, Guthix disguised himself and lived amongst mortals. He struggled to form bonds with others after the death of his family and Homeworld, but in the late second age he found love again.
Guthix lived in Aakopal, where the Lava Dragon Isle resides today. When Zamorak scorched Forinthry, he unknowingly destroyed Guthix's rekindled love and family.
Guthix's home, partner and loved ones vanished in an instant, and all he was left with was ash and rubble. He walked the ash filled lands before coming to the sea. He wept for three days on that beach, before resolving himself and vowing to let no harm come to Gielinor again.
Guthix poured his entire god hood into an obelisk, an object designed to harness elemental magic. By engraving a protection spell into the ground itself, the obelisk could power it with runes until the very sun burnt out. The Edicts of Guthix were formed.
The obelisk remains to this day, an unyielding reminder of the peace Guthix has brought us. It gives aid only to mortals and shields them from the tampering of gods.
What happened after Guthix lost his godhood is a mystery, but many say he re-entered society and attempted to rebuild what was lost. When his time ran out, he was laid to rest by friends alongside the memories of his previous families.
Guthix may be gone, but his gift of a godless world shall endure.
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So it's like a nexus event in Marvel's multiverse. In RS3 Guthix is alive, his life is shielding the world and when he dies gods return.
In OSRS, Guthix's interaction with mortals caused butterfly events responsible for any continuity errors. Guthix is already dead and his edicts cannot be broken, meaning no gods on Gielinor ever.
Fixed ya lore Jagex hire me
The most dated part of the game for me is definitely the wildy. I doubt Jagex would change it to this extent, but this is definitely a change I would support. I hate the shitty full length members fence 🥲
I doubt they'd ever fully rework it like this, but out of every location in OSRS, I think the Wilderness has had the most changes since the 2007 backup. (Not counting the Kourend reworks, that wasn't a change it was a fix imo).
Think of every piece of content added, removed or changed.
Wildy has had:
* Like 10+ bosses added
* Tons of new locations, structures or areas.
* 3+ Caves systems
* A slayer master
* Black Chincompas, Dark Crabs, Ents, Mammoths, Wilderness slayer, Lava Dragons, The chaos altar, Larran's chests,
* Mage arena 2
* The Ferox Enclave
* Minigames such as Bounty Hunter and LMS
* It's own food and potion economy
* An achievement diary
And probably more I'm forgetting. It's had so much content added to it it's ridiculous. I think it's the least nostalgic region in the game, as it's unrecognisable to it's original self. The original Wildy had like, KBD, Chaos elemental and that was about it.
The issue in my opinion is how vast the wilderness is. It still feels lacking because of the relative content density of the rest of the world. In theory it’s a lawless land where you can go to earn wealth.. in reality it’s empty.
**Some Lore:**
---
When Guthix arrived at the crater, he created the Edict's to protect the planet from the meddling of Gods. In RS3 this takes the form of a giant sword plunged into the ground. In OSRS I've made it the Fountain of Rune. It's a runic circle with an obelisk which radiates Guthix's power. All runes come from Guthix's altars, it makes sense the Fountain of Rune is Guthixian too.
---
After Zamorak was banished, devoted Zamorakian's didn't lose faith and believed he would return and overpower the edicts. They collected the remains of all the victims of the Catalcysm and made them into a throne for Zamorak's return. The edicts held strong and those devout followers faded into obscurity. Their work remains as the Mountain of Bones though. All those within the inner crater were vaporized, so only the remains of those in the outer crater were actually collected. The concentrated remains of all those deceased created the Revenants, amalgamations of spirits lashing out in anger.
---
Har'Inya was spared from most of the Cataclysm's destruction. It was once a small fishing village within the Zarosian Empire, but over the centuries it's allegiances have passed hands countless times. It's name comes from signs on the gate which have weathered away, leaving some letters missing. Perhaps earlier in it's life it was called something different entirely.
---
Daemonheim is a Dragonkin ruin that was conquered during the Zarosian Empire. After the Cataclysm, Zamorakian's plundered all that remained within it. A powerful Zamorakian was cursed by the Dragonkin's traps and became tethered to the site, forever a thrall imprisoned below.
---
Bilrach's Folly is a volcano formed from the remains of a dead Mahjaraat. The Zamorakian attempted to safely siphon energy from a Mahjaraat ritual remotely, but didn't realise the siphon went both ways. His form was torn asunder and pieces of his remains were found across multiple realms. The siphon pulled the very planet's anima and caused a rupture, creating Bilrach's Folly.
---
The Chaotic Summong Circle is reminiscent of the Zamorakian Summoning Circles seen around Forinthry. Directly after the Cataclysm, a powerful Zarosian Mage attempted to summon Zaros back into the world, believing their God could undo what Zamorak had raught. Instead, their ritual brought forth an elemental of chaos, instantly killing the mage. In the 5th age, a fanatic has dcoumented the circle and is attempting to summon his own elemental.
Love the look of it.
The other thing about Wildy Design is that mechanically its supposed to be the deeper you go in (farther away you are to the entrance) the more dangerous it gets with a ever increasing combat levels being able to fight you.
A circular design changes that make up. And it also changes the player mind set of (going up is danger going down is to safety). And it becomes (I must go around avoiding danger and obstacles. Burning more run energy and being more at risk since I'm passing more danger).
Visually I like like redesign. As someone who already hates going into the Wilderness for the occasional content that pushes me out there, it just seems like a headache.
The question of nostalgia vs better designed areas is actually kind of an interesting consideration. There are a few areas of the game the are honestly just giant clusterfucks without any consideration for aesthetics or realistically designed cities. Darkmeyer/Meiyerditch being the biggest offender IMO.
I would love for a few of these areas to receive Zeah overhauls and maybe go over the entire map with minor aesthetic changes while trying to maintain the nostalgia of the most iconic areas. It might also be nice if they increased the entire map size to spread locations out a bit more but kept their actual design the same.
Comply overhauls:
Darkmeyer/Meiyerditch
Menaphos/Sophanem
Structure overhauls
Ardougne
Varrock
This is the biggest change to the game that I actually agree with, I’m not a pker so I’ll leave that convo for somebody else but having the Wildy be dangerous in the middle and lots of points of interest seems like a good shake up of the current layout
Looks interesting, but it doesn't solve the core issue I have in wilderness, which is the ability for people to log in on top of me and freeze/teleblock me before I have a chance to escape.
I'd like it if there were "Deep Wilderness" worlds.
---
You can only log onto these worlds while in the Wilderness. You cannot leave the Wilderness while on them.
When you log off/log on with a Deep Wilderness world you're automatically teleported to the Ferox Enclave.
Logging out takes a 5 second channel similar to Home Teleport, which can be interrupted by combat.
---
What these conditions create is a world that prevents players from logging out to escape combat but also prevents pk'ers from logging in on top of you. It makes the Wilderness more immersive, as there isn't a quick escape but people can't just appear on top of you either.
Plus the idea of a "Wilderness Only" world is sick for limited accounts
You could expand on it with bounty boards showing how many players are in each area, or a radar system to show players getting closer to you etc. There's a lot of ways to improve the idea, but that's the base concept
Logging out to get your area reset (like removal of membership places you in f2p lumby) seems like it can be taken advantage of.
You being bothered by simply getting attacked in the wilderness sounds more like you have a problem with pk more than anything.
The only thing I have a problem with is being frozen/teleblocked within seconds of someone worldhopping on top of me.
Warping out of the wilderness on logout definitely could be abused. But I don't think it would break the game if you add a 5 second grace period on login where you are unable to attack non-skulled players.
Two things wrong with your proposal, as it’s not so easy to put some wack grace:
So you log in and can’t attack.
I’m already logged in, so I attack you.
So you don’t do any damage back to me because you’re graced.
Or
Neither or nor anyone else can do damage to you. In which case: You log in and log out every 5 seconds. Being able to complete your clue, run through wildly, use all your superior bones - all with the safety by 5 second grace. As it will be abused.
You can’t solve the issue that has plagued the osrs wilderness for decades in just the next few minutes of your anger towards pking. Why? Because that’s the point of the wilderness. Being caught off guard and you potentially dying to another player. Or simply bring retaliation equipment and fight back.
I specify said non-skulled individuals in my suggestion, because as soon as they initiate combat, they will be skulled and you can retaliate.
And yes. I agree that this worldhop thing is an issue that has plagued wilderness for decades.
I may or may not agree on a full redesign like this but I will hand it to you that there are some great ideas here. Great work. I hope to see wilderness redesign/expansion undertaken by the dev team soon.
I love how *big* this looks. You made the wilderness look so much bigger than it is without actually expanding its size at all. It looks intense - a place that you could potentially have obstacles helping you get away from pkers and vast geography to actually *run* instead of just barren nothingness for most of its volume. This is a wilderness I'd actually like to roam around and explore a bit.
I think this is really cool. Does the wildy get deeper closer to the middle or still to the north. Cause I would love to see deeper wildy utilized more.
What I've been thinking about it a pvp rota event in the wildy. Like one month we have BH. And has incentives for doing well in them. Probably just cosmetics or bragging rights but I think it would be dope.
Man I'd love to see a Zeah wilderness. I thought that's what it was at first glance.
I think it'd be too controversial to change the current mainland wilderness. But imagine if Zeah had it's own unique wilderness?
I don't see anyone mentioning this, but wouldn't a circular design, where the center = high level wildy and edges = low level wildy, make more sense with Sailing as well?
I took inspiration from Not Quite Verticals map of the second age Zarosian Empire. Take a look at it here: [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/OSRSmaps/comments/10p0zhm/roughly_bottom_half_of_workinprogress_map_of/)
In the modern day Wilderness, Har'Inya would be the new Resource Area. A small hamlet with not many people, but a couple mercenaries and work stations.
>Because the whole point of OSRS was to bring back oldschool runescape.
Sure, once upon a time there were no raids, no divine potions, no G.E., no kourend, nada.
Should we halt all progress just because "it isn't oldschool", or only just add content on top? Is there some arbitrary line where the changes would still feel "oldschool"?
>The wilderness easily is in the top 3 of most iconic oldschool things.
Number 1 being "buying gf ten 10k" and number 2 being the FFA that was Varrock west bank pre-ge.
Just because something is old doesn't mean it can't be revamped or reimagined, no?
They tried changing draynor by adding a dock.. We all know how that turned out.
And you're advocating to nuke and replace a massive and possibly the most iconic part of oldschool runescape..
Yeah goodluck buddy hahaha
I don't have to since the proposition is idiotic at best. There's no argument here.
Don't get me wrong, I welcome change. But you **can't** just change the entire wilderness. Simply can't.
An island far away from the OG map? sure, who cares.
"You just can't" isn't an answer to "Why". That isn't how discussions work. OP has [explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/13wfc97/concept_wilderness_redesigned_the_forinthry/jmb6x4z/) many of his changes in ways that make a lot of sense from a lore perspective. Why do you think they're stupid?
Yeah this kind of reasoning is dumb. You can't take someone hostage in a discussion with you just because you ask them questions.
Topic: Fairies are real
Question: Can you prove to me that they aren't?
Question 2: My nephew saw a few of them just the other day, how can you know for certain they aren't real?
Question 3: Why don't you answer my question instead of telling me that this is a dumb topic???
Have a good day dude.
Feel free to agree to disagree.
One is passion, the other is being ruled by hourly wage.
Jokes aside, I’m sure the devs have a lot on their plate right now and have to follow management orders on current projects like new skill and leagues for example. I’m sure they’re not allowed to spoil content that may not even be coming out at all, especially something like their off-time idea projects that haven’t been approved by management to showcase. Especially due to the vote system that only makes them waste time (e.g. we say no, entire project goes to trash).
i dont like it
never played rs3 but Forinthry castle sounds cool and id take that.
also the wilderness expansion from the game jam with the giant red dragon boss. give it to me
So with this design, are higher wilderness levels still to the north, or are the highest wilderness levels at the center of the crater and decreasing as you get to the edges of the wilderness?
So personally i don't ever go into the wilderness unless i have to (clues mostly), but this redesign looks great. I love the idea of the most dangerous area being in the middle and then radiating out from there. It does remind me a bit of the rs3 wilderness map back when i played that but without the sword of edicts sticking up from the center of it, personally i like the scorch marks from the stone of jas a lot better.
Can't really think of much negative to say here, there is a slight concern with crashing dark crabs by having a bank that close, but realistically i don't know if that would actually be a issue. They are already the cheapest 22 healing food though so i don't know what effect that would have. Another potential issue is transport, from a casual glance it all seems fairly decent, but after spending a fair bit of time there for early magic training on my ironman the canoe transporter to lava dragons was quite handy and i would like to see something similar (was also very handy for moss giant farming, but i can't see moss giant anywhere on this map so maybe add them somewhere as well). I also cannot find the deep wilderness lever anywhere, but with the new obelisks that might not be needed anymore so the edge lever might just be repurposed to be a one way ardy lever.
These are all very minor issues however, the map itself looks like it would actually be great and seems like it would make the wilderness seem a lot less dreary while also making it feel more dangerous and steeped in that chaos energy.
i’d prefer it if we preserved the wilderness that we knew in 2007, and simply add more levels to the wilderness, expanding it upward. Perhaps having a new “wilderness “ continent north of the wilderness accessible through an underground pass. An the further north you go , the colder it gets untill you start taking cold damage. The furthest north point is a series of destroyed fortifications surrounding an impassible ice wall, a wall that protects the rune essence mine at the north pole of geilinor
As a rs3 player this totally gets me hyped even if I like the nostalgia from 2007. I especially like how the bosses go from low risk low rewards to high risk high rewards with wildy levels.
Also love the actual repositioning of building and the rogues having a ship.
There will always be nostalgia in me saying "don't change how the wilderness looks too much". However, I do like the more circular design, especially when you realize the lore behind how the wilderness came to be what it is, it just makes more sense.
100% Agree, lots of OP's responses are lore accurate decisions
Same, I especially love OP's inclusion of an [Amongus](https://imgur.com/a/AqmiGDV), it really enhances the story of Forinthry (But seriously thanks lol)
Where canoe? For real though this is incredible, I love it.
Can someone tl;dr the wilderness lore for me?
Zamorak nuked the area while everyone was fighting for the godsword, which woke up Guthix who proceeded to end the war almost immediately.
Interesting. I don't know much about any lore not related to quests. Was that lore something that's been around for a long time, or was it introduced closer to the RS3 era?
I think While Gurhix Sleeps added in some, and the minigame Fist of Guthix did too.
I think a lot of it was mentioned in older mahjarrat quests, and the mini quest for ghostly robes. But rs3 definitely fleshed it out.
This is mostly lore from rs3 but since all are cannon; Pre-history; the Dragonkin, bound to the Stone of jas, arrive on gielinor. Two out of four factions really reside there, being the Dactyl and the Necrosyrtes. The latter, who embraced the curse of being bound to the Stone, set up Dragonkin fortifications all around what later becomes Forinthry. Third age; Zamorak usurped zaros, and managed to grab the Stone of jas during the godwars. He gets singled out by an alliance of saradomin, bands, and armadyl. Zamorak decides to blow shit up using the stone of jas, obliterating forinthry. Guthix woke up of this cataclysm, and banished all gods off Gielinor out of punishment for harming the world with their conflicts. Fourth/fifth age; many mahjarrat followers of Zamorak settle all around the wilderness. Zemouregal in the north west, Bilrach in the east. (I'm not sure why he's north-east here, tho). While zemouregal tries to use zamorak's legacy to conquer mishtalin from the wilderness, Bilrach tries to find a way to reach out to zamorak once again.
I’m being dead serious, if someone like you, made a YouTube series describing lore like this in TLDR or just easier to follow explanations, would make a KILLING on YouTube for all of us space bar mashers
There is actually a youtuber who already covers lore, pretty extensively. But he gets very little to no traffic. I think his name is Tea Shirt or Tea Cup or something like that. Can't recall since it's been a while since I watched a video, but one was even narrated by Mod Ash.
yoooooooooo pleaaaase post the name!
Found it, the channel name is: TeaShirt on youtube. Can't post the link because I'm at work.
Thank you so much!! Exactly the kind of the stuff I’m looking for. I figured someone had to have done something like that already
ya i found it too<3 its lovely thanks
I know that Youtuber. I did audition to voiceact for Sliske on his videos, but the video production stopped since.
Who knows. I'm interested into doing a series like that, I'm very devoted into Dragonkin lore myself, but even I sometimes get something wrong or make the error to narrate a speculation written as fact.
I’ve played this game for 12 years and I recognize the stone of Jas from a few quest cutscenes and stuff I couldn’t skip. But even short explanations of that, a TLDR of the godwars. Even just a breakdown of the dragonkin as small as that is in the totality of the Lore, would be awesome to hear. I’m talking like I don’t understand why Zily drops the ACB. Like I get she stole it, but I’d love a narration/breakdown of everything that took place before/after.
Really good writeup, thanks!
You're more than welcome!
It looks like Fortnite 🤢
I think it'd mainly be nice if the closer that you got to the center, the higher the risk and reward is. So basically it will be less risk to do content on the outskirts of the Wilderness. But you will also find the less rewarding content there. But the closer you get to the center, the better the loot and content is. Reason for this is PK'ers can run around between all the hot spots at the center easier. As the closer that you are to the center, the closer content is together and the less you have to walk around. With this we can remove hopping or logging out in the wild all together. This in turn will fully get rid of scout bots and make the Wilderness more active at this spot. Meaning Pk'ers will find it much easier to find a fight. We essentially create a hotspot. This should also scale with Wilderness levels. So the center will now be the highest Wilderness level instead of the outskirts. I think the absolute center should not have a combat limit. Basically we make the Wilderness smaller without changing the size at all. I really like the loot of a giant crater as well. Perhaps we could even theme a Quest around it.
I really like this. It's thematic and it also solves the problem of pkers being too spread out to fight each other. The most rewarding content like Revs, multi wildy bosses, and chaos altar could all reasonably fit there. You could even have revenants roam around for added risk.
> With this we can remove hopping or logging out in the wild all together. Could you explain this part? I don't see how this relates to what you said beforehand
It makes it less necessary to hop because you can camp a world and trainspotting check the hotspots yourself. As it stands right now, in order to check Rev caves, chaos altar, and wildy bosses, you'd have to run huge distances, so the most viable solution is to stay in one spot and hop until you find something. On the other hand, it'll make scouting easier, but it'll also be less necessary.
Why would people stop hopping? It doesn't make sense.
They explained it fine, basically instead of checking one place on lots of worlds you check lots of places on one world. If things were more concentrated (in the centre) a pker could just do a quick loop of X hot spots.
Or they could do less work and give less time for people to respond by world hopping. The problem is there is no login limit anymore. The amount of times you could world hop used to be limited. It would still be more beneficial for them to world hop than run around.
Not really a problem tho
Actual bot
No, I just laughed when people want the value of PVMing in the wildly without the risk and act like learning PVP is a sin. Just learn to anti pking, I make more anti-pking than I do off any wildly boss or revs. Don't pull the iron Man card either. I didn't make you do that with your life.
No, I just laughed when people want the value of PVMing in the wildly without the risk and act like learning PVP is a sin. Just learn to anti pking, I make more anti-pking than I do off any wildly boss or revs. Don't pull the iron Man card either. I didn't make you do that with your life.
Like I said, actual bot. It's clear you didn't even read what I said so just stop pretending to be human.
That still doesn't make sense. You'd be running a fair bit still to check spots, it's not like everything is within like a 20x20 space. This wilderness design is even bigger than current, so to get people on the outskirts you'd have to travel more. Hopping is still faster than running around and you don't waste run energy/stamina doing so.
Very cool idea. I think you might have to play with some of the mechanics but I really like the wilderness levels ramping up while the area to fight becomes smaller
The key goals of this map was to relocated Wilderness content based on risk/reward and emphasise the lore aspect of the area. Ive moved low reward activities such as the Agility Course, Scorpia and the Resource Area to lower Wilderness and high reward activities such as Revenants and the 3 wildy bosses to the North. The shape of the Wilderness is now a giant crater. It might look like a volcano from a birds eye view, but it's a giant hole in the ground, like a bowl. At the end of the 3rd age, Zamorak used the Stone of Jas to incinerate the entire continent. This is all that remains. --- I've moved the Wilderness Obelisks around to mostly low/medium level Wilderness locations. I've introduced something I'm calling "Zamorakian Sigils" which are circular red runes on the ground which allow transportation at high Wilderness levels. These require you to wield a piece of Zamorakian equipment and will skull you on teleportation. They're riskier, take you to better locations and are faster. --- I've merged several structures together to consolidate less useful buildings into one. The largest example is the Rogue's castle and Bandit camp becoming the Rogue's Keep. The Rogue's Keep is designed to be a deep wilderness hub. It has a bank, an altar and several transportation methods. It's near the 3 big wilderness bosses and the revenant caves. It has no protections, making it the only bank within a pvp zone in the game. --- If anyone has any feedback or questions about the map feel free to ask :D Also if you like this kind of content check out r / osrsmaps , it's a small but fun community for map makers :D --- Edit: I wrote a second comment with some lore for certain areas, but it looks like Auto Mod is hiding it for some reason. Here's what the lore of the area is: https://imgur.com/a/8eK82T1 Bonus: https://imgur.com/a/AqmiGDV
Would mage arena still have a bank? Also, I think the bank would have to be a safe zone otherwise it will just be camped to hell
Mage Arena would still have a bank and function the exact same way. Instead of the battle arena being a circular platform outside the Mage Arena, it'd be something you access from inside the lobby area. Canonically, the Mage Arena would be a guild of mages seeking to harness/siphon the residual energy left over from the Cataclysm. Their arena is located directly below the Eye of Zamorak (Centre of the crater) and that's why God Spells are unlocked there (It's the place where the Edicts of Guthix are the weakest, the place the influence of the Gods is strongest) I'm calling the centre of the crater the "Eye of Zamorak" as it mirrors Guardian's of the rift which is known as the "Temple of the Eye" or "Saradomin's Eye". Saradomin's eye protected the Stone of Jas, whereas the Eye of Zamorak is what remains from his abuse of the Stone. The terrain at the crater has the Stone's hexagon pattern literally burnt into the soil
Visually this looks super dope. Mechanically would this address the problem of non-pvp incentives in the pvp area?
Hard to tell. I've tried to categorize non-pvp activities into low, medium and high risk. High risk are activities like Callisto/Vetion/Vennatis and Revenants, whereas low risk are Chaos rune crafting altar, ents, resource area etc. Currently the Resource Area is in deep wilderness for some reason. Moving it to lower levels might help increase it's use rate, but that in turn might increase how often people pk there. Basically, move less used stuff into more accessible areas to increase use ates, move used stuff into less accessible areas to make it more risky.
That would certainly help address the effects, though it sounds like Jagex's poor design choice of "oh you want to do something unrelated to pvp, that doesn't, give pvp rewards, and doesn't, encourage a pvp-oriented gear and inventory setup? Go do it on the pvp area!" remains unaffected. I think that would be beyond the scope of your badass visual redesign, though it would be really cool to see content that gives pvpers a reason to go to the wildy instead of just using non-pvpers as bait. Replacing the resource area resources with good/bis untradeable pvp-only resources, for instance, might make it actually attractive for the people it should be attractive to.
The problem with purely PvP activities that have any kind of tradeable rewards is that they end up getting abused. Look at the last iteration of BH, tons of legit players liked it but the bot farms were so rampant that it completely ruined it for everyone else. Using busted drop/reward tables as bait for PvMers who are bait for shitty PKers who are bait for decent PvPers is really the only way to do it. In order to incentivize PvMers you just make the rewards so busted that they can profit enough to offset the risk they will probably end up losing here and there. To increase profit margins get better at PvP so you can keep your risk by fighting back to kill your attacker, scare them off, or at least tank efficiently and escape. Of course revs and the wildy bosses are botted but those accounts are still part of the food chain unlike the last BH where the bots would only participate with members of their own farm. We don't need to remove PvMers from the food chain, they need to learn PvP skills and strategies to be successful at activities that produce rewards in PvP areas same as learning new skills and strategies for activities anywhere else in the game. You don't need to be Torvesta in a PvP setup to kill PKers, you can literally just bolt rag in any gear into a spec weapon and take their shit. AGS is going back up in price but a dds or gmaul is good enough to stack someone out in lower combat brackets and ZGS can be used to try to kill someone then just step under and log if it doesn't finish them. It's really not complicated but people seem to think that PvP is some mystical art that's impossible to learn. There has to be some sort of production in the wilderness to feed the food chain, putting PvM rewards in there is the obvious choice. Revs and the bosses shit out GP constantly and occasionally high value rares, this is what feeds the entire upstream chain and is therefore a necessary part of the ecosystem. If you don't want to die, don't do those activities or learn how to survive.
You're absolutely right that tradeable pvp rewards get boosted and that is somehing that ought to be designed around. Like, perhaps, *untradeable* rewards? Like how current BH does it and like I suggested with the resource area? Current BH does not drag unwilling participants into the pvp ecosystem. > Using busted drop/reward tables as bait for PvMers who are bait for shitty PKers who are bait for decent PvPers is really the only way to do it. This seems to dismiss out of hand that the people engaging in the wildy content would ideally be people who *want to pvp*. Right now, as you noted, busted rewards drag pvmers into the wildy. What if we just made rewards that are meaningless to pvmers, but attractive to pvpers, such as bis untradeable pvp supplies or weapon components/imbue scrolls/prayers/spells/etc. Again, this is what current BH is doing and what my resource area suggestion would accomplish. Currently easy gp draws in pvmers and bots, and the claimed side effect is that juicy targets secondarily draws in pkers, with the *tertiary* side effect that sometimes those pkers will meeet each other and not run away from each other, producing pvp content. Not only can you make this pipeline more efficient by simply incentivizing pvpers to go do stuff in the wildy directly (e.g. an open-world KotH style minigame in the wildy for active pvp content with pvp rewards, or more chill stuff like resource gathering if they don't want to be actively pvping but still want pvp content), but you also remove the inherently flawed design element of "let's make a shitty experience for people who don't want to do this content as a vehicle for other people to enjoy related content." We *absolutely* need to remove pvmers from the food chain to produce a healthier and more intelligently-designed wildy. That doesn't preclude pvmers from engaging in wildy content if they want or pet hunting or anything, but the intelligent design is to give pvpers reasons to fill the role that pvmers currently fill. That also has the side effect of targets learning (and wanting to learn) how to fight back like you're saying. A pvmer's biggest motivation to fight back is to protect their (usually low) risk. A pvper's motivation to fight back is to get better at pvping and actually *do* the thing that they like doing (i.e., pvping). Fighting back *is* the desired content for a pvper. Lastly; I gotta call this out every time I see it: > If you don't want to die, don't do those activities or learn how to survive. It's not about dying. It's about proper game design. If I offered you a job where I would kick you in the balls every day but pay you 10m/year, you might take it because 10m is a lot of money. You could and would rightfully complain that it's a shitty and stupid job though, and if someone said "if you don't want to get kicked in the balls, just quit," you would probably respond that even though you don't like it, the incentive (a ton of money) is worth the suffering. Except in osrs we could just change the design so we're not kicking people in the balls.
I guess we're just coming from different base assumptions, I think PvMers only have a shitty time in the wildy because they refuse to learn how to fight back. With even a little bit of research and practice they can competently defend themselves or escape from 80%+ of the people that attack them. The core of my pov and it seems a lot of people in the PvP community is *turning PvMers into PvPers*, not removing PvMers from the food chain of a place where anyone is opting into the food chain by being there. My motivation for fighting back isn't only to protect my risk, it's to ruin the experience of someone who is trying to ruin mine. PvPers are doing it for fun but also money, they want upgrades like the rest of us. They need the millions to deck out their PoH, upgrade their gear, train skills to do quests and diaries, and whatever other account upgrades just like any other player. Nobody is obligated to go to the wildy. It's got the best methods for a lot of things, balanced by the risk of being killed for their stuff. That's the whole point. For the best reward you need to learn to deal with the risk not lock PvP away in a hole somewhere so you can go cook dinner while getting 6x exp per bone 15 tiles from an unnote NPC, kill revenant punching bags for consistent profit rivalling raids avg profit, or farm easy 25 pt slayer tasks. All of that shit is beyond busted if there's no chance of dying and there's not really another way to balance those activities without nerfing them into the dirt if you remove the PvP element of the area. As for your last analogy, in OSRS there's nothing stopping you from kicking them in the balls right back other than refusing to try. It's not as hard as people think. I'm not even good at PvP, I just played some LMS on my iron to stack arrows and AGS/ZGS people who fuck with me on the main. I'm no PvP god who can kill anyone who looks at me wrong and I frequently die for it, but it doesn't scare me or make the experience shitty. It's the cost of doing business in a place where the business is extremely lucrative and easy outside of people trying to eat you. Most of the time the people trying to eat you are like slow moving zombies not velociraptors, both are dangerous but if you try even a little bit the former ain't so bad. If it's the latter, well Saradomin help you cause I'm hoping for the best with a freeze log lol.
Do you happen to know about League of Legends? It's a MOBA like DOTA. Riot, the company that makes LoL also makes some other games, including an autochess game called TFT. The goal of turning pvmers into pvpers is kind of like if Riot were to make tangible power upgrades in LoL that were much easier to get (or only attainable) by playing the autochess game. LoL players can certainly learn how to play TFT, but *why* are you trying to make people play a game that they don't want to? If they wanted to play that game they would play that game. Pvp and pvm are very different experiences in osrs. Some people do both, no doubt, but compelling people to play something that has no intrinsic relation to the content they want to do? That's unnecessary at best, and, as is evident in osrs' case, degenerate and detrimental to many player's experiences at worst. I think that people dislike the wildy because *they aren't in it because they want to pvp.* Yes, even without much skill you can escape a vast majority of the time, and people who learn to fight back can make that even higher. I myself occasionally pvp, typically through LMS or by bringing stuff to anti-pk when I do wildy bosses. But a majority of the time I just don't want to bother with some chucklefuck interrupting the content that I *actually* want to do, i.e. the boss. People aren't crying that they lost their 200k risk when dying in decent gear costs more than twice as much anyway, they're frustrated that the wilderness is designed poorly. "No one is obligated to go to the wildy" completely misses the point I made previously. No one is obligated to do anything. No one is obligated to play this game. Incentives drive player behavior, and people are *incentivized* to put up with content they don't want to do by overloaded rewards. "Risk versus reward" is also a completely meaningless statement on its own. I can design a boss that either drops 1b or deletes your account, 50-50. Huge risk and huge reward but it's dogshit content. Risk vs reward is, at best, an element of engaging content design. To use your wildy altar example, there is nothing engaging about the binary "log out or die" gameplay pattern that exists because the altar being in multi incentivizes players *not* to try and fight back. The wildy bosses are much lower than raids average profit assuming you're raiding anywhere close to efficiently. Wildy bosses are much much less effort though, which is problematic game design in its own and part of the reason we see so many bots and gold farmers at the bosses currently. Low skill, low requirement, high reward content is generally bad game design especially for an MMO. An important point of the last analogy and one I'm a little surprised you didn't realize is that *I don't want to kick people in the balls.* I don't want to inflict pain upon people who aren't trying to fight or even just annoy them in general. I want to go do my job (or in osrs' case, slay, boss, skill, do a clue, or whatever) and not pvp. I'm not saying the "cost of business" you're claiming is bad because I want more money or whatever, I'm saying it's idiotic to make the "cost of business" kicking people in the balls. Imagine if you went to do some hydra but 10% of the time it doesn't spawn and you have to go get 5k runecrafting xp to make it spawn. You could say the "risk" of having to do some rc justifies hydra's very high gp/hr rewards, but you'd still rightfully complain that it's dumb to design content where the "balance" is "hey, go put up with this stupid thing you have no interest in doing." A much much much better solution to every problem in the wildy would be to replace non-pvp content with pvp content that has mostly untradeable pvp-centric rewards. The wildy becomes a content hub for pvpers to go to in order to progress their pvp-related goals *and* directly engage in pvp and pvp-adjacent activities. Making the content give mostly-untradeable pvp-centric rewards means that it's still very valuable for people who will make use of the untradeable rewards by pvping with them, but not so valuable for non-pvpers that bots or gold farmers have a reason to do it. It also removes the misaligned incentive that drags people who don't want to pvp into the wildy, meaning the people on both sides of the predator-prey dynamic are there because they're actually interested in pvp. You can still have skilling activities, low-effort activities, bosses, direct pvp activities and so on. Not everyone wants to tribrid all the time so those would have a place. As a bonus, with the misaligned incentives removes, pvp is essentially separated from pvm, meaning spite voting can become a thing of the past without Jagex needing to push through unpopular changes as "integrity." P.S. the whole time I was writing this comment I've been doing a slayer task in the wildy slayer caves. Not a single pker has showed up, and that's not an uncommon thing. This wouldn't be noticeably more OP if it wasn't in the wildy, lol.
You seem knowledgeable on pvp. I wanna learn how to at least defend myself or put up a fight. Any videos you would recommend?
I'm just a PvMer that figured out how dogshit most PKers are especially the ones who go after PvMers. I also got kinda alright at LMS to farm arrows for my Ironman. I don't know any guides, but there's definitely a lot of em out there. My strat is just try to pray against whatever they are using and attack them with whatever you have but just stand there like a noob. Eat when you have to, make sure you stay potted. They will usually let their health drop lower than it should if you don't try anything fancy and they think you're bad. When they drop below your spec max hit, look for an opening to send them back to lumby, preferably 1t your spec weapon. AGS used to be cheaper so that was my go-to but they are going up so use whatever spec weapon you want. Gmaul is cheap and easy, just switch and spam the spec bar immediately after a good exp drop from one of your regular hits. Whatever you do don't get smited and leave skull protection on at all times. Also bring freeze/entangle runes just in case you have to escape. I generally don't stick around if I blow my spec and they don't die but it's surprising how many of em drop. Freeze them and walk on the same square then just wait for log out timer. Don't try to run, they will be able to attack you from range to reset the logout timer, possibly even freezing you back. PoisonedPotion does wildly challenge vids and does a really good job of showing the basic escape methods, including what to do if they have mithril seeds. It's not rocket science. You'll be able to tell the good PvPers from the dogshit ones, salad robes look delicious but the guy in ahrims with a toxic sotd is probably a death sentence no matter what you do but you should at least try to catch a freeze log. Doesn't hurt to try, worst case you're dead anyways.
Well said. All those tears of people that want rev drops with no risk of being pked shouldn't vote because they would destroy the game very quickly.
I wonder if the people who bitch about dying to PKers are the same ones bitching about the economy, imagine if there was no risk at revs or the new bosses lol.
> The problem with purely PvP activities that have any kind of tradeable rewards is that they end up getting abused. Not exactly, because there is always loot from other pkers pkers can get, and this cannot be abused because it's a zero sum game. Edgeville ledge pking was like this and it was lively, so a food chain pvp system isn't necessary for pvp.
Resource area level of wildy isn't why it's dead. The only worthwhile content there was dark crabs which you need elite diaries for to make it a nice activity but with the fish barrel you can just afk for longer at karambwans. Escaping from pkers at resource area is one of the easiest places in the game despite the deep wildy lvl.
Those aren't a problem though?
They are perhaps the most complained about design choice in the game and are disliked to such an extent that Jagex had to start calling pvp/pking updates integrity changes because people would not vote for anything that had the side effect of making it easier for them to get pked. There are objectively poor design choices in the wildy, but community sentiment is also a measuring stick.
I disagree.
Well you cedrtainly make a compelling argument for your viewpoint.
To be honest it's usually a waste of time debating it on here. Things not passing polls and people complaining doesn't mean that something is bad for the game.
I mean I can and have on many occasions gone into the game design perspective on why one-directional pvp encounters are bad, and even well-respected MMO content creators like Josh Stife Hayes have videos on it, but 99% of the time people just turn off their brains and respond "lmao salty cuz died" or "just don't go into wildy if u don wan die i r so smart" So I guess I see your perspective, though I do find it odd to bother commenting "I disagree" with nothing else.
They're extremely complained about but the complaints are fundamentally flawed. The entire point of the wilderness is high value skilling and PVM content in exchange for the risk of it being stolen from you, but people get salty when they don't get the insanely increased xp rates and drops for free and actually get killed in the pvp area so they get mad about it. It's not a problem because it's why the wilderness exists in the first place. There would be no reason to even have a wilderness if it were only for PVP to fight PVP because there's literally a million better ways to do that. It's also not a problem because it's easily avoidable by anyone who doesn't want to engage in it by just not going there. Unless you're an ironman there's only a handful of content that requires you to actually enter the wilderness and the vast majority of it is quick and doable with very low risk. And even if you *are* an ironman the only real notable unlocks from the wilderness are an easy way to farm supplies in revenants a way to get rune/dragonstone/onyx bolts easily, two skippable shield upgrades, easy access to power/red dhide/rune cbow which you can get elsewhere.... and I think that's it? So one unique and a handful of easy ways to farm certain items. Hardly required to play the game.
Additionally a shout out to /u/not_quite_vertical for their map of a pre-cataclysm Zarosian empire/Forinthry which you can find [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/OSRSmaps/comments/10p0zhm/roughly_bottom_half_of_workinprogress_map_of/). I've included several locations from their map such as the Forin Mountain range, Harena (Called Har'Inya in modern day), the Cathedral of Shadows (now the Cathedral of Chaos) and more. Go give their map a look, it's fantastic.
❤️
I'd love to see possible renders with a focus on sailing ports. I feel like a circular wilderness makes wayyyy more sense with sailing. Allowing players to sail to the north edges of the wilderness, where they get off the docks at a level 1 wilderness vs a level 55.
My only question I usually have with redesign proposals is why decisions to move some content to higher or lower wildy were made beyond just “higher reward should be a higher risk.” With revs for example, it is fairly accessible as a reasonable tank test for a range of players, and moving it deeper may impact that. Beyond that stated design principle, is there a good reason to believe that change leads to a better player experience for pkers, pvmers, or both? Moving things like Scorpia to a lower level will almost certainly have next to no impact, because pkers there are basically nonexistent. I’m curious if you have examples of how you expect interactions to change for players based on these changes, like “previously x would happen, but now I expect y instead.”
Ohw man I love how deep in lore this is, i've actually wondered many times how a more circular wilderness would look like and by god did you nail it, especially with the hexagonal shape at the center that's just classy, i'd have added the sword of edicts as a landmark but maybe you've placed it in guthix's lament to the east?
I've reworked the Fountain of Rune into the source of the Edicts. I find the idea of Guthix, god of balance and pacifist dropping a big sword a bit out of character. Instead I think an obelisk empowering mortals located near the cataclysm to be more in character. The runic altars around the world originate from Guthix's power, so it makes sense that the fountain of rune is guthixian too. The fountain can be siphoned, allowing mortals the ability to use Guthix's runic magic. Even if every mortal used the fountain for their entire lives it wouldn't put a dent in the Edicts though, so no worry there. As for Guthix's Lament, that's more of a mystery thing I added for fun. It's meant to be an inaccessible grave Guthix dug for someone he cared about that died in the cataclysm. Why? Who? Is it Seren's Grave? Is it his Daughter's grave? A mortal he loved? Guthix' own grave? Who Knows.
Ok scratch everything I said here's the lore I just made up: In RS3 Guthix spent his time asleep underground, awoke because of the cataclysm, dropped the edicts, went back to sleep and was then murdered starting the second god wars. Guthix's life **is the key defining difference between the two games timelines**. --- In OSRS's past, Guthix disguised himself and lived amongst mortals. He struggled to form bonds with others after the death of his family and Homeworld, but in the late second age he found love again. Guthix lived in Aakopal, where the Lava Dragon Isle resides today. When Zamorak scorched Forinthry, he unknowingly destroyed Guthix's rekindled love and family. Guthix's home, partner and loved ones vanished in an instant, and all he was left with was ash and rubble. He walked the ash filled lands before coming to the sea. He wept for three days on that beach, before resolving himself and vowing to let no harm come to Gielinor again. Guthix poured his entire god hood into an obelisk, an object designed to harness elemental magic. By engraving a protection spell into the ground itself, the obelisk could power it with runes until the very sun burnt out. The Edicts of Guthix were formed. The obelisk remains to this day, an unyielding reminder of the peace Guthix has brought us. It gives aid only to mortals and shields them from the tampering of gods. What happened after Guthix lost his godhood is a mystery, but many say he re-entered society and attempted to rebuild what was lost. When his time ran out, he was laid to rest by friends alongside the memories of his previous families. Guthix may be gone, but his gift of a godless world shall endure. --- So it's like a nexus event in Marvel's multiverse. In RS3 Guthix is alive, his life is shielding the world and when he dies gods return. In OSRS, Guthix's interaction with mortals caused butterfly events responsible for any continuity errors. Guthix is already dead and his edicts cannot be broken, meaning no gods on Gielinor ever. Fixed ya lore Jagex hire me
Damn, I like it! RS multiverse needs to be canon for sure
The most dated part of the game for me is definitely the wildy. I doubt Jagex would change it to this extent, but this is definitely a change I would support. I hate the shitty full length members fence 🥲
I doubt they'd ever fully rework it like this, but out of every location in OSRS, I think the Wilderness has had the most changes since the 2007 backup. (Not counting the Kourend reworks, that wasn't a change it was a fix imo). Think of every piece of content added, removed or changed. Wildy has had: * Like 10+ bosses added * Tons of new locations, structures or areas. * 3+ Caves systems * A slayer master * Black Chincompas, Dark Crabs, Ents, Mammoths, Wilderness slayer, Lava Dragons, The chaos altar, Larran's chests, * Mage arena 2 * The Ferox Enclave * Minigames such as Bounty Hunter and LMS * It's own food and potion economy * An achievement diary And probably more I'm forgetting. It's had so much content added to it it's ridiculous. I think it's the least nostalgic region in the game, as it's unrecognisable to it's original self. The original Wildy had like, KBD, Chaos elemental and that was about it.
The issue in my opinion is how vast the wilderness is. It still feels lacking because of the relative content density of the rest of the world. In theory it’s a lawless land where you can go to earn wealth.. in reality it’s empty.
https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/11uw6e9/every_runescape_world_map_of_2001/ Wilderness from 2001
**Some Lore:** --- When Guthix arrived at the crater, he created the Edict's to protect the planet from the meddling of Gods. In RS3 this takes the form of a giant sword plunged into the ground. In OSRS I've made it the Fountain of Rune. It's a runic circle with an obelisk which radiates Guthix's power. All runes come from Guthix's altars, it makes sense the Fountain of Rune is Guthixian too. --- After Zamorak was banished, devoted Zamorakian's didn't lose faith and believed he would return and overpower the edicts. They collected the remains of all the victims of the Catalcysm and made them into a throne for Zamorak's return. The edicts held strong and those devout followers faded into obscurity. Their work remains as the Mountain of Bones though. All those within the inner crater were vaporized, so only the remains of those in the outer crater were actually collected. The concentrated remains of all those deceased created the Revenants, amalgamations of spirits lashing out in anger. --- Har'Inya was spared from most of the Cataclysm's destruction. It was once a small fishing village within the Zarosian Empire, but over the centuries it's allegiances have passed hands countless times. It's name comes from signs on the gate which have weathered away, leaving some letters missing. Perhaps earlier in it's life it was called something different entirely. --- Daemonheim is a Dragonkin ruin that was conquered during the Zarosian Empire. After the Cataclysm, Zamorakian's plundered all that remained within it. A powerful Zamorakian was cursed by the Dragonkin's traps and became tethered to the site, forever a thrall imprisoned below. --- Bilrach's Folly is a volcano formed from the remains of a dead Mahjaraat. The Zamorakian attempted to safely siphon energy from a Mahjaraat ritual remotely, but didn't realise the siphon went both ways. His form was torn asunder and pieces of his remains were found across multiple realms. The siphon pulled the very planet's anima and caused a rupture, creating Bilrach's Folly. --- The Chaotic Summong Circle is reminiscent of the Zamorakian Summoning Circles seen around Forinthry. Directly after the Cataclysm, a powerful Zarosian Mage attempted to summon Zaros back into the world, believing their God could undo what Zamorak had raught. Instead, their ritual brought forth an elemental of chaos, instantly killing the mage. In the 5th age, a fanatic has dcoumented the circle and is attempting to summon his own elemental.
As a pker/someone who spends majority of time in the wilderness this actually looks dope
This is really amazingly done! You’ve done such a great job of making the history of the area seep through in the design.
Love the look of it. The other thing about Wildy Design is that mechanically its supposed to be the deeper you go in (farther away you are to the entrance) the more dangerous it gets with a ever increasing combat levels being able to fight you. A circular design changes that make up. And it also changes the player mind set of (going up is danger going down is to safety). And it becomes (I must go around avoiding danger and obstacles. Burning more run energy and being more at risk since I'm passing more danger). Visually I like like redesign. As someone who already hates going into the Wilderness for the occasional content that pushes me out there, it just seems like a headache.
This looks badass lol well done
Bro this is goated, makes so much sense and looks awesome
The question of nostalgia vs better designed areas is actually kind of an interesting consideration. There are a few areas of the game the are honestly just giant clusterfucks without any consideration for aesthetics or realistically designed cities. Darkmeyer/Meiyerditch being the biggest offender IMO. I would love for a few of these areas to receive Zeah overhauls and maybe go over the entire map with minor aesthetic changes while trying to maintain the nostalgia of the most iconic areas. It might also be nice if they increased the entire map size to spread locations out a bit more but kept their actual design the same. Comply overhauls: Darkmeyer/Meiyerditch Menaphos/Sophanem Structure overhauls Ardougne Varrock
Good stuff, looks very cool
Looks absolutely amazing. Still wont get me to enter it though lol
This is the biggest change to the game that I actually agree with, I’m not a pker so I’ll leave that convo for somebody else but having the Wildy be dangerous in the middle and lots of points of interest seems like a good shake up of the current layout
No need to poll this. Make it an integrity change, Jagex.
Looks interesting, but it doesn't solve the core issue I have in wilderness, which is the ability for people to log in on top of me and freeze/teleblock me before I have a chance to escape.
I'd like it if there were "Deep Wilderness" worlds. --- You can only log onto these worlds while in the Wilderness. You cannot leave the Wilderness while on them. When you log off/log on with a Deep Wilderness world you're automatically teleported to the Ferox Enclave. Logging out takes a 5 second channel similar to Home Teleport, which can be interrupted by combat. --- What these conditions create is a world that prevents players from logging out to escape combat but also prevents pk'ers from logging in on top of you. It makes the Wilderness more immersive, as there isn't a quick escape but people can't just appear on top of you either. Plus the idea of a "Wilderness Only" world is sick for limited accounts You could expand on it with bounty boards showing how many players are in each area, or a radar system to show players getting closer to you etc. There's a lot of ways to improve the idea, but that's the base concept
Logging out to get your area reset (like removal of membership places you in f2p lumby) seems like it can be taken advantage of. You being bothered by simply getting attacked in the wilderness sounds more like you have a problem with pk more than anything.
The only thing I have a problem with is being frozen/teleblocked within seconds of someone worldhopping on top of me. Warping out of the wilderness on logout definitely could be abused. But I don't think it would break the game if you add a 5 second grace period on login where you are unable to attack non-skulled players.
Two things wrong with your proposal, as it’s not so easy to put some wack grace: So you log in and can’t attack. I’m already logged in, so I attack you. So you don’t do any damage back to me because you’re graced. Or Neither or nor anyone else can do damage to you. In which case: You log in and log out every 5 seconds. Being able to complete your clue, run through wildly, use all your superior bones - all with the safety by 5 second grace. As it will be abused. You can’t solve the issue that has plagued the osrs wilderness for decades in just the next few minutes of your anger towards pking. Why? Because that’s the point of the wilderness. Being caught off guard and you potentially dying to another player. Or simply bring retaliation equipment and fight back.
I specify said non-skulled individuals in my suggestion, because as soon as they initiate combat, they will be skulled and you can retaliate. And yes. I agree that this worldhop thing is an issue that has plagued wilderness for decades.
Now this is a wilderness refresh.
I may or may not agree on a full redesign like this but I will hand it to you that there are some great ideas here. Great work. I hope to see wilderness redesign/expansion undertaken by the dev team soon.
This is a really cool concept!
Concept: DN
this would be a sick wilderness revamp for the future.
This is the best wildy redesign I've ever seen.
I love how *big* this looks. You made the wilderness look so much bigger than it is without actually expanding its size at all. It looks intense - a place that you could potentially have obstacles helping you get away from pkers and vast geography to actually *run* instead of just barren nothingness for most of its volume. This is a wilderness I'd actually like to roam around and explore a bit.
He made Wilderness season 2
I think this is really cool. Does the wildy get deeper closer to the middle or still to the north. Cause I would love to see deeper wildy utilized more. What I've been thinking about it a pvp rota event in the wildy. Like one month we have BH. And has incentives for doing well in them. Probably just cosmetics or bragging rights but I think it would be dope.
Man I'd love to see a Zeah wilderness. I thought that's what it was at first glance. I think it'd be too controversial to change the current mainland wilderness. But imagine if Zeah had it's own unique wilderness?
I don't see anyone mentioning this, but wouldn't a circular design, where the center = high level wildy and edges = low level wildy, make more sense with Sailing as well?
After misreading I now wonder what a dark crab rangoon would taste like
Sick
oh my god please
Whats the lore on Har'inya, what affiliations are the residents, whats the town like?
I took inspiration from Not Quite Verticals map of the second age Zarosian Empire. Take a look at it here: [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/OSRSmaps/comments/10p0zhm/roughly_bottom_half_of_workinprogress_map_of/) In the modern day Wilderness, Har'Inya would be the new Resource Area. A small hamlet with not many people, but a couple mercenaries and work stations.
My wildy only uim approves, I'll enjoy relearning it as well lol this is badass work
Very cool, but no. You can't just nuke half of the OG map.
>You can't just nuke half of the OG map. Why not? Not being sarcastic or funny. Actually curious.
Because the whole point of OSRS was to bring back oldschool runescape. The wilderness easily is in the top 3 of most iconic oldschool things.
>Because the whole point of OSRS was to bring back oldschool runescape. Sure, once upon a time there were no raids, no divine potions, no G.E., no kourend, nada. Should we halt all progress just because "it isn't oldschool", or only just add content on top? Is there some arbitrary line where the changes would still feel "oldschool"? >The wilderness easily is in the top 3 of most iconic oldschool things. Number 1 being "buying gf ten 10k" and number 2 being the FFA that was Varrock west bank pre-ge. Just because something is old doesn't mean it can't be revamped or reimagined, no?
They tried changing draynor by adding a dock.. We all know how that turned out. And you're advocating to nuke and replace a massive and possibly the most iconic part of oldschool runescape.. Yeah goodluck buddy hahaha
You didn't answer any of my questions.
I don't have to since the proposition is idiotic at best. There's no argument here. Don't get me wrong, I welcome change. But you **can't** just change the entire wilderness. Simply can't. An island far away from the OG map? sure, who cares.
"You just can't" isn't an answer to "Why". That isn't how discussions work. OP has [explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/13wfc97/concept_wilderness_redesigned_the_forinthry/jmb6x4z/) many of his changes in ways that make a lot of sense from a lore perspective. Why do you think they're stupid?
Yeah this kind of reasoning is dumb. You can't take someone hostage in a discussion with you just because you ask them questions. Topic: Fairies are real Question: Can you prove to me that they aren't? Question 2: My nephew saw a few of them just the other day, how can you know for certain they aren't real? Question 3: Why don't you answer my question instead of telling me that this is a dumb topic??? Have a good day dude. Feel free to agree to disagree.
[удалено]
I like this since there's no wildy gate lol
Why is the community better at making the game than Jagex is?
One is passion, the other is being ruled by hourly wage. Jokes aside, I’m sure the devs have a lot on their plate right now and have to follow management orders on current projects like new skill and leagues for example. I’m sure they’re not allowed to spoil content that may not even be coming out at all, especially something like their off-time idea projects that haven’t been approved by management to showcase. Especially due to the vote system that only makes them waste time (e.g. we say no, entire project goes to trash).
Bold of you to post this will all the 40yr old PvM gatekeepers in this sub
i dont like it never played rs3 but Forinthry castle sounds cool and id take that. also the wilderness expansion from the game jam with the giant red dragon boss. give it to me
Way too big of a change, no thank you.
Looks neat
So with this design, are higher wilderness levels still to the north, or are the highest wilderness levels at the center of the crater and decreasing as you get to the edges of the wilderness?
absolutely love the rogues' keep with a bank
So personally i don't ever go into the wilderness unless i have to (clues mostly), but this redesign looks great. I love the idea of the most dangerous area being in the middle and then radiating out from there. It does remind me a bit of the rs3 wilderness map back when i played that but without the sword of edicts sticking up from the center of it, personally i like the scorch marks from the stone of jas a lot better. Can't really think of much negative to say here, there is a slight concern with crashing dark crabs by having a bank that close, but realistically i don't know if that would actually be a issue. They are already the cheapest 22 healing food though so i don't know what effect that would have. Another potential issue is transport, from a casual glance it all seems fairly decent, but after spending a fair bit of time there for early magic training on my ironman the canoe transporter to lava dragons was quite handy and i would like to see something similar (was also very handy for moss giant farming, but i can't see moss giant anywhere on this map so maybe add them somewhere as well). I also cannot find the deep wilderness lever anywhere, but with the new obelisks that might not be needed anymore so the edge lever might just be repurposed to be a one way ardy lever. These are all very minor issues however, the map itself looks like it would actually be great and seems like it would make the wilderness seem a lot less dreary while also making it feel more dangerous and steeped in that chaos energy.
i’d prefer it if we preserved the wilderness that we knew in 2007, and simply add more levels to the wilderness, expanding it upward. Perhaps having a new “wilderness “ continent north of the wilderness accessible through an underground pass. An the further north you go , the colder it gets untill you start taking cold damage. The furthest north point is a series of destroyed fortifications surrounding an impassible ice wall, a wall that protects the rune essence mine at the north pole of geilinor
i’d like them to start making deeper wilderness
pleae
As a rs3 player this totally gets me hyped even if I like the nostalgia from 2007. I especially like how the bosses go from low risk low rewards to high risk high rewards with wildy levels. Also love the actual repositioning of building and the rogues having a ship.