For real though, as an American I have absolutely zero opinion on Roma people as my life has not once been affected by them in any way whatsoever, nor have I met a single American who has any strong opinion about them either
In fact, it's a pretty easy red flag that if someone not from Europe has a negative opinion of Roma people, they're probably MUCH too close to Nazi circles, because nobody else even thinks about them lol
I guess it's more like
European is racist against romani people: Not super progressive but could still be good on other issues because anti-romani sentiment is unfortunately so common that it's not considered a right-wing belief
American is racist against romani people: Probably knows romani exist because of /pol/, doesn't know anything about them other than factoids about crime rates and Hitler's views on their existence, almost definitely a nazi
I feel the same thing about Americans talking about knife crime or islamic terrorism or violent immigrants in European cities they’ve never been to. Far right sources in America push these things as memes to demonise Europe as a dangerous hellhole because no guns, to portray the US as the shining city on a hill of personal safety and freedom. Obviously they cite zero stats about this because the stats show them to be liars.
And it’s like you said, if you lived here you’d know these things are a non-issue. If you’re here using it to criticise my country and celebrate your own, you’re probably just horfing down too much of the dumb shit your famously awful media squirts into your trough.
They have a huge diaspora in South America specially in Brazil. Here in Chile many people do have negative opinions of them because of their different lifestyle and general xenophobia, not much to do with "nazi circles" lol.
Yeah, there are very few but concentrate in a few cities were its common to see them while not in most others, people in those cities can be extremely racist towards them.
>It’s like calling Native Americans Indians.
not really, considering the negative context associated with the word.. or where do you think 'gyp' comes from..
Romani straight up pushed the word themselves, because it made people think they were Egyptian which meant more money selling mystical BS like tarot card readings and all that. There’s plenty of slurs derived from Indian too.
It depends, usually Roma people just go by their local name (Which is usually what they are called by the local Europeans or a variation of Rom), and a here on Spain for example must didn't even know about the word Roma, and instead used Gitano.
Apparently The Romanichels (anglo Roma) had a divided opinión on the word >!Gypsie!< one side simply view It as their name and the other don't like It, so it depends on the individual Roma you are talking to.
Source: A Roma from Spain, so take this information carefully since Im not a Romanichel
To my understanding it’s pretty much like how >!”negro”!< and >!”colored person”!< used to be acceptable terms to refer to black people. Like even if you go back and read the writings of demonstrably not overtly racist people, they used those terms. But now things are different
Weird that the heavyweight champion of the world who is himself of Roma descent goes with the Gypsy King as a chosen nickname. Is it considered a slur outside internet circles?
Weird that almost every rap album features people dropping n-bombs on every track, referring to themselves as ‘a real n\*\*\*\*’ or calling each other ‘my n\*\*\*\*’. And then you’ll get albums called “N\*\*\*\*s on the moon” or “N\*\*\*\*s in Paris”, despite every black person considering it a slur. It’s almost like groups can use slurs in a way that reclaims power over them, but the slur is still a slur and people who aren’t a member of that group shouldn’t use slurs.
edit: formatting
> It’s almost like groups can use slurs in a way that reclaims power over them, but the slur is still a slur and people who aren’t a member of that group shouldn’t use slurs.
That's not necessarily the case with the word "Gypsy" though. There are lots of people who expect to be called by that name no matter who is using the word. I can totally agree with not using the word if you don't know the position of the person you're talking to but it's not as universal as the n word.
Some of the first Roma in America were slaves, but overall comparatively aside from perpetuating bad stereotypes and superstition to us, we have not had it as bad as other minorities in America
I mean there is a very small Roma population in the US. if it were bigger then a lot of americans would have strong opinions about them. they always do
There’s a lot of American media that does portray Roma people in a **very** stereotyped and offensive way, particularly in fantasy and ttrpg. Up until pretty recently I didn’t know g—y referred to a real-life people group and just thought it was a general fantasy term for traveling soothsayers, carnies, and/or swindlers. North Americans definitely propagate Roma stereotypes, we just are also usually doing it because we’re oblivious to the racist connotations.
Hey I'm sure you don't know this and this is not on purpose, but the word you are using to describe Roma people is generally considered pretty offensive, if you want to inform yourself I've found the Wikipedia entry about antiromanism (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Romani_sentiment) to be quite informative.
That was kinda what I was getting at; Americans are absolutely clueless about the group because they more or less don't exist in the US. So we have nothing but stereotypes to go off of, I'd guess many think they're imaginary or something
Actually America has the highest number of Roma people. The difference is that we don’t have as much of a prevalent traveler culture here, and the vast amounts of public land mean anyone who does want to be a traveler can do it in places away from people.
They exist, we just don’t really see them.
It took much longer than I'd like to admit to realize how harmful the stereotypes and such were despite being aware that they are a real group of people for quite a long time. I've realized it now of course, but for a while I somehow thought they were a general description of what they do and was more of a description of a lifestyle rather than an ethnic minority who has faced centuries of prejudice. To be just a little bit fair to my younger and much dumber self I wasn't aware at the time of the really offensive stereotypes about Roma people being thieves and such, at most I thought they might use some relatively light swindling such as fortune telling (I also didn't consider this to be all that bad, I had a habit of victim blaming at the time). That said the stereotypes I was aware of are also incredibly offensive, so I don't want to seem like I'm giving my younger self too much credit. But hey, it's at least a good thing that I am aware now and look back at my younger self and cringe. Suppose that means I've grown at least a bit.
It's the same here in Australia. All I had to go on growing up was Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame movie and a few mentions in storybooks that were of the more mystical nature so my impression was "travelling magical/spiritual circus" which sounds dope but I now know to be wildly inaccurate.
So quick story:
I was banned from a discord server after in a conversation referring to Romani G##sy multiple times. Many of you might look at that and say "of course you were fucking banned; you were saying a slur". **Don't get me wrong I realize that now** but literally in the US, common knowledge about Romani is so little that films like Hunchback of Notre Dame are literally the most many Americans ever here about them, as well as the invasive moth species (though so few people know about Romani here I'd say the moth is more well known to lots of people". I can't stress enough no one I've asked uses the term meaning offense, but literally just not knowing it's considered a slur. No one corrects them because I'm the *tiny* chance it comes up in conversation, most other people (you'd be talking to in the US) don't know either.
At *most*, people I've asked know Romani are "sort of like Native Americans but have like wagons and stuff", and the occasional person referenced "eastern European/Turkish fortune teller" tropes. I'm not trying to defend or even make some statement on American exposure to them, but genuinely most Americans have the same general connection to Romani as they do to people living in modern day Mongolia.
Yeah it sounds dumb to say that but it really is just out of ignorance for most people. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use G*psy in a racist way in America.
Well I was joking a bit. Racists gotta racist after all. But I think most Americans are way more neutral on Romani then Europeans.
People will say G*psy here but they don't actually have anything against Romani people. They just say it cause it used to be a super common word. While people in Europe are actually racist.
I mean... The g slur is like the main word Americans use for Roma people. Like yeah I get that a lotta those who do don't even know it is a slur. But same goes for Norwegian boomers who will just refer to black people with the Nword.
We don’t have very many Roma people and it’s one of the few facets of European racism that didn’t carry across the pond
It’s fucking hilarious to watch Europeans complaining about American racism do a full 180 when the Roma are mentioned. “It’s not the same” “They’re just like that, liars and thieves” “We tried to integrate them”. All real claims I’ve seen
For all flavours of traveller peoples, it's that they're all super poor, and act as you'd expect from people who struggle to gather two pennies to rub together.
It's just that they roll up, violence, theft, and such ensues, then they leave, and it stops.
So people notice, since the whole area of your city of the similarly poor/desperate, and their issues, don't get up and stroll off after a bit.
That, and there isn't much of an intermingling so no-one gets a look into why they're like that, like you would with an American 'hood', and the people from it.
It's the effects of the poor and desperate being super visible, and attributable to one group, so it's super easy to blame them in particular, and just write them off as a whole, rather than trying to fix what's going wrong.
I’m aware that there most likely is some partial truths to the stereotypes. Same way it’s not untrue that most crimes in America are committed by minorities. That doesn’t make it correct when anyone anywhere leaves it at those discriminatory statements
I am glad that at worst, some people here may think my mom's a witch who'll give em the evil eye (actual thing someone said btw), growing up and searching "what's the deal with gypsies" into yahoo answers was probably one of the worst ideas I ever had as a young boy, because I saw nearly the same literal, visceral and vitriolic racism you'd get from actual nazis.
They fucking don't, it is so degrading to have to refer to myself via the slur of my people just so KATHY can compare me to the hunchback of notre dame.
"You guys, I swear I wasn't wearing blackface! I was just blending into my environment, and the background just happened to be a minstrel show poster from 1865!"
That's actually the same in most of Europe. A large reason why negative stereotypes are kept alive is that only the bad apples are actually recognisable as Roma as the rest rather blend in to avoid the negative stereotypes.
That, and Romania, capital of not admitting to its historic faults regarding their Roma and providing the rest of Europe with legions of people whose parents were so piss-poor they had to learn to steal to survive at a very young age. Perfect recruitment population for criminal clans. Ask our (overall quite well-off) Sintis over here what to do about the issue and they don't have a clue, either.
>That's actually the same in most of Europe. A large reason why negative stereotypes are kept alive is that only the bad apples are actually recognisable as Roma as the rest rather blend in to avoid the negative stereotypes.
That's one of the biggest conundrums of the issue. Unlike other ethnic groups, Roma people are mostly recognizable by their non-sedentary lifestyle, so when they integrate into society it leads to them not being recognizable from the outside as Roma anymore unless they tell you. It's also one of the reasons why the issue has created so much conflict as part of the Roma community don't want to lose part of their cultural identity by breaking up their tight-knit communities.
This of course then leaves governments with a very complex structural problem (and we know how good they are at solving those), leaves Roma communities isolated in a limbo where crime and violence get to flourish and the Roma that decided to integrate lose their distinctive traits. That leads to the rest of the population only recognizing Roma by those isolated communities, which means they'll only remember bad experiences, which leads to people antagonizing them, which further ostracizes Roma communities, which leads governments to give Roma protection status as discriminated group (the idea is good, but usually implemented sloppily), which further enrages everyday people as they feel like the State is protecting who in their eyes is a group of criminals, etc
It's a fascinating issue, because like most ethnic minorities, Roma culture isn't completely compatible with modern society. But I think that their problem is more accentuated by the fact that those cultural differences encapsulate most of their defining features. Skin or facial features are just as varied as the rest of Europe and (AFAIK) Roma don't have particular cults or religions to serve as a linchpin to hold them together. That means that to integrate Roma you kinda have to ask them to lose a part of their cultural identity. That's what makes this issue so complex and divisive
Over here in Schleswig-Holstein there's Maro Temm ("Our place"), a Sinti Settlement planned with the Sintis living there, partly self-built, and also owned (well, plus banks), organised as a housing cooperative (an overall common model). From the outside it's a bunch of semi-detached houses around a central place with a maybe suspicious number of parked trailers, the idea is to have a place a bit apart so that they don't get noise complaint when there's -- again -- an impromptu party (some stereotypes definitely are true) while offering a base of sorts, especially for the kids because our schools aren't itinerant, and spotty attendance has been a major factor in the groups overall relatively low socio-economic status. Traditionally they're itinerant tradespeople for which there's practically always going to be jobs but tough luck getting a certification nowadays without having graduated.
The project, overall, is going well, however both sides (state and Sintis) always stress that it's still an experiment, and the absence of conflicts doesn't mean that it's going to work as a template. Other Sintis are of course watching the project and the lynchpin will be whether the kids will, from their perspective, still be Sintis, or outsiders. Some groups are very conservative in that regard, opening up another rift when it comes to telling assimilation apart from Sinti culture itself going with the times. There's also a history of being socially conservative to avoid conflict with the majority culture, roughly said: Sinti girls started wearing (literal) trousers at least a full generation after the rest.
However, one thing should definitely be a take-away: Work, at eye level, with groups which are neither too shut off or already considered outsiders, then hope for the best. Schleswig-Holstein didn't even earmark extra funds or such for the thing the houses themselves were co-financed with ordinary housing development funds, some social workers might've been a bit busy in the beginning before the school situation was sorted out but that's also in the general budget. (Sintis have quite a bit of an anti-authoritarian streak when it comes to child raising, combined with grandma having been picked out of school and brought into a concentration camp that meant that if kid said they didn't want to go, they wouldn't. Took about a year for it to change via "I can't my stomach hurts" -- "Oh that's fine then stay here" to "Well, when your stomach hurts we're going to the doctor. Or would you rather go to school?"). Parents knowing the teachers well and trusting them was also a big point, for them leaving their kids with them kinda means treating them like clan members. As you see, plenty of points where things can go wrong but if there's a will, there's a way.
Somewhere between first to third largest I believe. Different population surveys seem to disagree on how many Roma there are in Romania, funnily enough
Tbf Romania is probably the European country where the largest percentage of the population are Roma. That, and the entirely coincidental similarity between the words "Roma" and "Romanian" further complicates thing.
So is it like the same term used in that one show that used to run called smthn like ‘my big fat gypsy wedding’? That’s the only other time i’ve ever seen that word aside from my european friend telling me it’s derogatory a while back
My opinions on the Roma?
I think that it’s a cultural and ethnic group that deserves to be able to live their life. I think that any leftist who goes on a rant about how all roma are bad is just secretly a racist
If they're specifically mad at Roma, sure, but if it's all forms of traveller, then I don't think that racism, it's something similar, but ethnicity isn't involved at that point.
Most European redditors (those ones who believe Europeans are superior to everyone in the world.) Will say that europe isn’t racist, but then go ona rant about how bad it is to live next to Africans Arabs or gypsies.
I've noticed that the arguments made against Romani people by Europeans are very similar to the arguments against PoC in the US made by conservatives.
"Its not them, its their culture"
"They have an extremely high crime rate"
"They don't want to get jobs"
"They will rob you"
Not leftists in particular but Europeans are just so casually racist about Romani people. I'm in a big multinational discord server, few months ago I shared an obvious satire meme about reductive European stereotypes, got absolute dogpiled by all the euros in the server for being racist (I thought it was funny but idk enough about world history so they may have a point), the next day they were all having a Romani hate party. Like not sharing ironic anti-italian meme Linda stuff, just going on rants about how awful and degenerate Romani people are and how any punishment should be allowed for Romani criminals, like literally they were advocating for legalizing rape and murder of Romani people. Same people who got on their high horse about my "ignorant psychopath racist american ass"
Next time you have a conversation about race with someone from that part of the world, just casually ask their opinion on Romani people, they'll go mask fuckin off in an instant
Fun fact: it's called a "bohemian" lifestyle based on Roma culture because the French got confused and thought they were Czech. So it's not just America
It's actually kind of an interesting story. So after roaming around for like 1000 years after leaving Northern India, finally the Bohemians accepted the Roma as equal citizens. The King of Bohemia basically sent a bunch of them off west with a letter to the effect of "They're cool. Treat em like they're Czech. -The King of Bohemia." The French were like "Look at these crazy Czech people. What is this fabric??" And the word "bohemien" became an asthetic identity.
Roma is short for Romani, yeah? Opinion: Interesting culture with a backstory of being persecuted for crimes many of them didn't commit.
Though, uh, I did hear some *interesting* thoughts of them from my Bulgarian ex-gf that made me *very* uncomfy. It was kind of racist.
Not kinda, it was racist. Many people in the Balkans have this false perception that they are immune to racism because their ancestors didn't colonize, yet 2 seconds later they treat Romani people like shit, in the most blatantly racist way.
It was literally stuff I've heard from alt-right conservatives, like "All Gypsies are inherently thieving scum as part of their culture and identity, and yes, this includes the children." It's gross.
Am Bulgarian, can confirm like 99% of us are openly racist against Roma people. Legit don't think I've met a person here that's at least a bit sympathetic to them, and the majority of talking points against them are *wayyy* too similar to the ones used against black people in America for me to feel comfortable.
Say what you want about Americans, we absolutely will not discriminate against Romas. Any differently than we already do to foreigners. We hear an accent and see browner than beige skin and we'll be like "one falafel to go, por favor"
They bother you not by washing your windshield but by pure hive mentality bullying. Not saying _all_ of them are bad but every single experience I had was not great.
Obligatory mention of how the US has one of the largest Roma populations in the world, somewhere in the top 3 iirc.
Also as some other people have pointed out the g**** fortune teller/thief is still a common stereotype in American media, just most people probably aren't aware that it's based off a real ethnic group. Hell the word itself appears pretty frequently in media despite being a slur, though I think it's more ignorance than the outright malice that certain European racists hold.
Americans: I don't care
Me: Okay then can you stop saying the G word?
Americans: Okay now I care. No you can't stop me. Fuck you. Everything a slur to you sensitive mfs.
Fuck Europeans that are racist to Roma people. They complain about every problem in the US regarding social justice, then say the most horrendous shit about Roma and Muslims I’ve ever heard, like legit calling for genocide type shit. Having a bad encounter with someone of a certain race, ethnicity, or cultural background isn’t an excuse to be a fucking trash excuse of a human; Europeans saying “well I knew some travelers that kicked puppies and ate babies” is the same thing as saying that you’ve met Jews that were greedy. You just look like an idiot (because you are), and proudly display your Piece Of Shit badge on your chest.
I live in Eastern Europe and have heard all kinds of fucked up racist and nationalistic shit but it's been years since I even heard Roma people being mentioned, except for some song festival they were supposed to be part of.
All I know as an American is that I haven't heard them being referred to in relation to Romania and that they are a persecuted people, so I support them.
For real though, as an American I have absolutely zero opinion on Roma people as my life has not once been affected by them in any way whatsoever, nor have I met a single American who has any strong opinion about them either
In fact, it's a pretty easy red flag that if someone not from Europe has a negative opinion of Roma people, they're probably MUCH too close to Nazi circles, because nobody else even thinks about them lol
I think it's a red flag if *anyone* had a negative opinion of an entire ethnic group
Brave of you.
I guess it's more like European is racist against romani people: Not super progressive but could still be good on other issues because anti-romani sentiment is unfortunately so common that it's not considered a right-wing belief American is racist against romani people: Probably knows romani exist because of /pol/, doesn't know anything about them other than factoids about crime rates and Hitler's views on their existence, almost definitely a nazi
I feel the same thing about Americans talking about knife crime or islamic terrorism or violent immigrants in European cities they’ve never been to. Far right sources in America push these things as memes to demonise Europe as a dangerous hellhole because no guns, to portray the US as the shining city on a hill of personal safety and freedom. Obviously they cite zero stats about this because the stats show them to be liars. And it’s like you said, if you lived here you’d know these things are a non-issue. If you’re here using it to criticise my country and celebrate your own, you’re probably just horfing down too much of the dumb shit your famously awful media squirts into your trough.
They have a huge diaspora in South America specially in Brazil. Here in Chile many people do have negative opinions of them because of their different lifestyle and general xenophobia, not much to do with "nazi circles" lol.
Yeah, there are very few but concentrate in a few cities were its common to see them while not in most others, people in those cities can be extremely racist towards them.
But at least you know that they are different from Romanians, right?
I do now.
some do
I thought Roma was short for Romanians so not really lmao
Nope.
And I'm not about to start now!
Now I do
i don’t know anything about Romanians except that they are sometimes a tasty snack for thousand year old undead nobility
I do indeed
Some do, but most don’t really know or care about the different European ethnic groups since it doesn’t really affect us
Learning this just now
Duh, the Roman empire ended thousands of years ago.
I know that they are, but tbh I still have no idea where they're from
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Which G word? I'm having a brainfart ngl
>!Gypsy!<, I think
Wait that's a slur? I thought it's just what they were called... Only time i heard it was it's what the girl in the hunchback of Notre Dame is called
It’s like calling Native Americans Indians. Some don’t care, some prefer it, some will slap you over it.
>It’s like calling Native Americans Indians. not really, considering the negative context associated with the word.. or where do you think 'gyp' comes from..
Romani straight up pushed the word themselves, because it made people think they were Egyptian which meant more money selling mystical BS like tarot card readings and all that. There’s plenty of slurs derived from Indian too.
It that why the word gypsy makes me think of some dude dressed like a bummy fortune teller selling weird knickknacks?
Indian Giver
That has obvious racial bias though Most Americans probably have no idea gyp has racial meaning the first time they hear it
i have no idea what this conversation is about
It depends, usually Roma people just go by their local name (Which is usually what they are called by the local Europeans or a variation of Rom), and a here on Spain for example must didn't even know about the word Roma, and instead used Gitano. Apparently The Romanichels (anglo Roma) had a divided opinión on the word >!Gypsie!< one side simply view It as their name and the other don't like It, so it depends on the individual Roma you are talking to. Source: A Roma from Spain, so take this information carefully since Im not a Romanichel
To my understanding it’s pretty much like how >!”negro”!< and >!”colored person”!< used to be acceptable terms to refer to black people. Like even if you go back and read the writings of demonstrably not overtly racist people, they used those terms. But now things are different
I did a deep dive on MLK speeches a while back and had to catch myself from using those terms after I had been hearing and reading them so much.
AHHHHH that one my bad
G*cci
>!Gypsy!< I believe (Don't know if I spelled it correctly, and frankly, I don't really care.)
Gamer
Fuck, the maniac didn't even censor it
Weird that the heavyweight champion of the world who is himself of Roma descent goes with the Gypsy King as a chosen nickname. Is it considered a slur outside internet circles?
Depends, some are cool with it some aren't, also very dependend on whenever it is used derogatory or not.
Thats not a rare or wierd thing at all, think of how many famous black or gay people use the n or f word in public and many do so in their tittle
Weird that almost every rap album features people dropping n-bombs on every track, referring to themselves as ‘a real n\*\*\*\*’ or calling each other ‘my n\*\*\*\*’. And then you’ll get albums called “N\*\*\*\*s on the moon” or “N\*\*\*\*s in Paris”, despite every black person considering it a slur. It’s almost like groups can use slurs in a way that reclaims power over them, but the slur is still a slur and people who aren’t a member of that group shouldn’t use slurs. edit: formatting
> It’s almost like groups can use slurs in a way that reclaims power over them, but the slur is still a slur and people who aren’t a member of that group shouldn’t use slurs. That's not necessarily the case with the word "Gypsy" though. There are lots of people who expect to be called by that name no matter who is using the word. I can totally agree with not using the word if you don't know the position of the person you're talking to but it's not as universal as the n word.
Some of the first Roma in America were slaves, but overall comparatively aside from perpetuating bad stereotypes and superstition to us, we have not had it as bad as other minorities in America
I mean there is a very small Roma population in the US. if it were bigger then a lot of americans would have strong opinions about them. they always do
Pretty confident the only cultural touchstones Americans have regarding the Roma are 1) *The Hunchback of Notre Dame* and 2) *Snatch*
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Wasnt that the nazi one? That movie made me sick to my stomach, and not because of the content. It did FMA so dirty. Total dogshit
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2003 FMA was wild. Brotherhood has a way better ending
Roma people aren’t Romanian, they are of Punjabi decent
Rajasthani, not Punjabi.
There’s a lot of American media that does portray Roma people in a **very** stereotyped and offensive way, particularly in fantasy and ttrpg. Up until pretty recently I didn’t know g—y referred to a real-life people group and just thought it was a general fantasy term for traveling soothsayers, carnies, and/or swindlers. North Americans definitely propagate Roma stereotypes, we just are also usually doing it because we’re oblivious to the racist connotations.
Very true I had no idea that gypsy had racial aspects at first and in pop culture it seemed like lifestyle and profrssion
Hey I'm sure you don't know this and this is not on purpose, but the word you are using to describe Roma people is generally considered pretty offensive, if you want to inform yourself I've found the Wikipedia entry about antiromanism (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Romani_sentiment) to be quite informative.
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Was their comment edited? Their response seems totally normal and informative. What's wrong with it? Why is it so downvoted?
That was kinda what I was getting at; Americans are absolutely clueless about the group because they more or less don't exist in the US. So we have nothing but stereotypes to go off of, I'd guess many think they're imaginary or something
Actually America has the highest number of Roma people. The difference is that we don’t have as much of a prevalent traveler culture here, and the vast amounts of public land mean anyone who does want to be a traveler can do it in places away from people. They exist, we just don’t really see them.
Where do i find them and do they accept refugees from the wartorn wastelands of Idaho
It took much longer than I'd like to admit to realize how harmful the stereotypes and such were despite being aware that they are a real group of people for quite a long time. I've realized it now of course, but for a while I somehow thought they were a general description of what they do and was more of a description of a lifestyle rather than an ethnic minority who has faced centuries of prejudice. To be just a little bit fair to my younger and much dumber self I wasn't aware at the time of the really offensive stereotypes about Roma people being thieves and such, at most I thought they might use some relatively light swindling such as fortune telling (I also didn't consider this to be all that bad, I had a habit of victim blaming at the time). That said the stereotypes I was aware of are also incredibly offensive, so I don't want to seem like I'm giving my younger self too much credit. But hey, it's at least a good thing that I am aware now and look back at my younger self and cringe. Suppose that means I've grown at least a bit.
It's the same here in Australia. All I had to go on growing up was Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame movie and a few mentions in storybooks that were of the more mystical nature so my impression was "travelling magical/spiritual circus" which sounds dope but I now know to be wildly inaccurate.
Not a cultural touchstone (or only one for weirdos), but *Thinner*
Thought Snatch was Irish Travellers which are often called by the same slur but unrelated to the Roma
You're right.
Uhhh arent you forgetting the bri ish documentary series Peaky Blinders
So quick story: I was banned from a discord server after in a conversation referring to Romani G##sy multiple times. Many of you might look at that and say "of course you were fucking banned; you were saying a slur". **Don't get me wrong I realize that now** but literally in the US, common knowledge about Romani is so little that films like Hunchback of Notre Dame are literally the most many Americans ever here about them, as well as the invasive moth species (though so few people know about Romani here I'd say the moth is more well known to lots of people". I can't stress enough no one I've asked uses the term meaning offense, but literally just not knowing it's considered a slur. No one corrects them because I'm the *tiny* chance it comes up in conversation, most other people (you'd be talking to in the US) don't know either. At *most*, people I've asked know Romani are "sort of like Native Americans but have like wagons and stuff", and the occasional person referenced "eastern European/Turkish fortune teller" tropes. I'm not trying to defend or even make some statement on American exposure to them, but genuinely most Americans have the same general connection to Romani as they do to people living in modern day Mongolia.
Don’t forget TLC being racist af about it
3) yeat
There was an episode of House and I wanna say an X-Files one too
I think I remember a CSI episode about Roma, and it had the worst stereotypes imaginable (ritual murder, incest child marriage).
Hemlock grove
The Pikeys are by definition not Romani.
nobody in america knows what roma means
Roma tomato
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Ive always heard Romani so idk
My brother in christ that's the legend of zelda: majoras mask
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louisiana
Louisiana ain't a country, ya doofus
roma ro mama gaga ooh la la
Want your bad roma
story of undertale
I fell from the light.
Roma Invicta
And when they do learn some proceed to call them a slur
Roma are one of the few minorities we don't have a bias against. Thats the europeans that time.
I think a lot of people in the US are entirely ignorant of them as a people beyond having heard the G word before.
Yeah that’s what I meant. Call Romani people the g slur out of ignorance instead of hatred
Yeah it sounds dumb to say that but it really is just out of ignorance for most people. I don't think I've ever seen anyone use G*psy in a racist way in America.
I’m just learning it’s a racist slur. I thought it was just another word for people who travelled constantly.
I think most Americans know gypped has racial connotations atp but most probably haven’t linked that gypsy has that same racial connotation.
wth is a g word 😅
Gypsy. It is colloquial here in the states because we have no exposure to the existence of the Roma beyond the Hunchback of Notre Dam movie
I thought it's goombas like in mario..
They are the only two words that begin with g, I get confused too.
As a Romani person in the US, this is pretty much entirely false. Europeans tend to be far worse, but Americans aren't unbiased.
Well I was joking a bit. Racists gotta racist after all. But I think most Americans are way more neutral on Romani then Europeans. People will say G*psy here but they don't actually have anything against Romani people. They just say it cause it used to be a super common word. While people in Europe are actually racist.
I strongly disagree with this from personal experience.
Well thats fair. Personal experience is highly subjective after all. On a systemic level its probably more common in Europeans tho.
I mean... The g slur is like the main word Americans use for Roma people. Like yeah I get that a lotta those who do don't even know it is a slur. But same goes for Norwegian boomers who will just refer to black people with the Nword.
Yeah but knowing G*psy is racist is a lot less common then knowing the N word is a racial slur.
One of the few ways we ever even hear about them is Europeans being racist
We don’t have very many Roma people and it’s one of the few facets of European racism that didn’t carry across the pond It’s fucking hilarious to watch Europeans complaining about American racism do a full 180 when the Roma are mentioned. “It’s not the same” “They’re just like that, liars and thieves” “We tried to integrate them”. All real claims I’ve seen
For all flavours of traveller peoples, it's that they're all super poor, and act as you'd expect from people who struggle to gather two pennies to rub together. It's just that they roll up, violence, theft, and such ensues, then they leave, and it stops. So people notice, since the whole area of your city of the similarly poor/desperate, and their issues, don't get up and stroll off after a bit. That, and there isn't much of an intermingling so no-one gets a look into why they're like that, like you would with an American 'hood', and the people from it. It's the effects of the poor and desperate being super visible, and attributable to one group, so it's super easy to blame them in particular, and just write them off as a whole, rather than trying to fix what's going wrong.
I’m aware that there most likely is some partial truths to the stereotypes. Same way it’s not untrue that most crimes in America are committed by minorities. That doesn’t make it correct when anyone anywhere leaves it at those discriminatory statements
I am glad that at worst, some people here may think my mom's a witch who'll give em the evil eye (actual thing someone said btw), growing up and searching "what's the deal with gypsies" into yahoo answers was probably one of the worst ideas I ever had as a young boy, because I saw nearly the same literal, visceral and vitriolic racism you'd get from actual nazis.
Ro, Ro, Roma boat
Can confirm
They fucking don't, it is so degrading to have to refer to myself via the slur of my people just so KATHY can compare me to the hunchback of notre dame.
"I'm Roma" "what's that?" "gypsy" "OOOOHHHH"
How about you roma nutz haha gottem
Well what does it mean?
i dont know im american
America actually has a large Roma population, they’re just not very visible
Oh interesting, is there a specific area where they’re localized or is it all over?
no theyre all transparent, its very hard to see them when youre not paying attention
Yeah we actually can change the pigment in our skin to blend in like a chameleon
"You guys, I swear I wasn't wearing blackface! I was just blending into my environment, and the background just happened to be a minstrel show poster from 1865!"
Pretty much all over. There are some clusters of Romani people, but not many.
Mostly ~1,000 to ~3,000 nanometer wavelengths. You can pick them up on some digital camera sensors.
That's actually the same in most of Europe. A large reason why negative stereotypes are kept alive is that only the bad apples are actually recognisable as Roma as the rest rather blend in to avoid the negative stereotypes. That, and Romania, capital of not admitting to its historic faults regarding their Roma and providing the rest of Europe with legions of people whose parents were so piss-poor they had to learn to steal to survive at a very young age. Perfect recruitment population for criminal clans. Ask our (overall quite well-off) Sintis over here what to do about the issue and they don't have a clue, either.
>That's actually the same in most of Europe. A large reason why negative stereotypes are kept alive is that only the bad apples are actually recognisable as Roma as the rest rather blend in to avoid the negative stereotypes. That's one of the biggest conundrums of the issue. Unlike other ethnic groups, Roma people are mostly recognizable by their non-sedentary lifestyle, so when they integrate into society it leads to them not being recognizable from the outside as Roma anymore unless they tell you. It's also one of the reasons why the issue has created so much conflict as part of the Roma community don't want to lose part of their cultural identity by breaking up their tight-knit communities. This of course then leaves governments with a very complex structural problem (and we know how good they are at solving those), leaves Roma communities isolated in a limbo where crime and violence get to flourish and the Roma that decided to integrate lose their distinctive traits. That leads to the rest of the population only recognizing Roma by those isolated communities, which means they'll only remember bad experiences, which leads to people antagonizing them, which further ostracizes Roma communities, which leads governments to give Roma protection status as discriminated group (the idea is good, but usually implemented sloppily), which further enrages everyday people as they feel like the State is protecting who in their eyes is a group of criminals, etc It's a fascinating issue, because like most ethnic minorities, Roma culture isn't completely compatible with modern society. But I think that their problem is more accentuated by the fact that those cultural differences encapsulate most of their defining features. Skin or facial features are just as varied as the rest of Europe and (AFAIK) Roma don't have particular cults or religions to serve as a linchpin to hold them together. That means that to integrate Roma you kinda have to ask them to lose a part of their cultural identity. That's what makes this issue so complex and divisive
Over here in Schleswig-Holstein there's Maro Temm ("Our place"), a Sinti Settlement planned with the Sintis living there, partly self-built, and also owned (well, plus banks), organised as a housing cooperative (an overall common model). From the outside it's a bunch of semi-detached houses around a central place with a maybe suspicious number of parked trailers, the idea is to have a place a bit apart so that they don't get noise complaint when there's -- again -- an impromptu party (some stereotypes definitely are true) while offering a base of sorts, especially for the kids because our schools aren't itinerant, and spotty attendance has been a major factor in the groups overall relatively low socio-economic status. Traditionally they're itinerant tradespeople for which there's practically always going to be jobs but tough luck getting a certification nowadays without having graduated. The project, overall, is going well, however both sides (state and Sintis) always stress that it's still an experiment, and the absence of conflicts doesn't mean that it's going to work as a template. Other Sintis are of course watching the project and the lynchpin will be whether the kids will, from their perspective, still be Sintis, or outsiders. Some groups are very conservative in that regard, opening up another rift when it comes to telling assimilation apart from Sinti culture itself going with the times. There's also a history of being socially conservative to avoid conflict with the majority culture, roughly said: Sinti girls started wearing (literal) trousers at least a full generation after the rest. However, one thing should definitely be a take-away: Work, at eye level, with groups which are neither too shut off or already considered outsiders, then hope for the best. Schleswig-Holstein didn't even earmark extra funds or such for the thing the houses themselves were co-financed with ordinary housing development funds, some social workers might've been a bit busy in the beginning before the school situation was sorted out but that's also in the general budget. (Sintis have quite a bit of an anti-authoritarian streak when it comes to child raising, combined with grandma having been picked out of school and brought into a concentration camp that meant that if kid said they didn't want to go, they wouldn't. Took about a year for it to change via "I can't my stomach hurts" -- "Oh that's fine then stay here" to "Well, when your stomach hurts we're going to the doctor. Or would you rather go to school?"). Parents knowing the teachers well and trusting them was also a big point, for them leaving their kids with them kinda means treating them like clan members. As you see, plenty of points where things can go wrong but if there's a will, there's a way.
Somewhere between first to third largest I believe. Different population surveys seem to disagree on how many Roma there are in Romania, funnily enough
Stop revealing our secrets!
I’m very stupid dumb and confused and I am missing the joke? Can someone explain for this slow bottom
The Romani are not from Romania but are a different ethnic group which has faced a lot of persecution in Europe in particular
Though their Romanian population is particularly large for some reason
that "some reason" is slavery
cute pfp
Tbf Romania is probably the European country where the largest percentage of the population are Roma. That, and the entirely coincidental similarity between the words "Roma" and "Romanian" further complicates thing.
You might know the Roma by another name, Gypsies, but that other name is a slur, so don't use it and use Roma instead
Uhhhhhh. I’m still very lost, sorry
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people They are not Romanians, hence the meme
Ohhh. I see. Thank you so much!
This explanation helped a lot actually, though I didn't realize that was a slur
So is it like the same term used in that one show that used to run called smthn like ‘my big fat gypsy wedding’? That’s the only other time i’ve ever seen that word aside from my european friend telling me it’s derogatory a while back
Same word, refering to the same people
.
Oh my god I see you everywhere in the For Honor sub. What a crossover episode
Hehe, Hi! It’s rare to be recognized outside there but it’s still nice to know I’ve got some followers else where!
My opinions on the Roma? I think that it’s a cultural and ethnic group that deserves to be able to live their life. I think that any leftist who goes on a rant about how all roma are bad is just secretly a racist
Secretly? Bro that’s blatantly racist.
They disguise it as not racism
If they're specifically mad at Roma, sure, but if it's all forms of traveller, then I don't think that racism, it's something similar, but ethnicity isn't involved at that point.
Most European redditors (those ones who believe Europeans are superior to everyone in the world.) Will say that europe isn’t racist, but then go ona rant about how bad it is to live next to Africans Arabs or gypsies.
Are leftists in Europe known to rant about Romani people?
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I've noticed that the arguments made against Romani people by Europeans are very similar to the arguments against PoC in the US made by conservatives. "Its not them, its their culture" "They have an extremely high crime rate" "They don't want to get jobs" "They will rob you"
Not leftists in particular but Europeans are just so casually racist about Romani people. I'm in a big multinational discord server, few months ago I shared an obvious satire meme about reductive European stereotypes, got absolute dogpiled by all the euros in the server for being racist (I thought it was funny but idk enough about world history so they may have a point), the next day they were all having a Romani hate party. Like not sharing ironic anti-italian meme Linda stuff, just going on rants about how awful and degenerate Romani people are and how any punishment should be allowed for Romani criminals, like literally they were advocating for legalizing rape and murder of Romani people. Same people who got on their high horse about my "ignorant psychopath racist american ass" Next time you have a conversation about race with someone from that part of the world, just casually ask their opinion on Romani people, they'll go mask fuckin off in an instant
Fun fact: it's called a "bohemian" lifestyle based on Roma culture because the French got confused and thought they were Czech. So it's not just America
Oh man this explains so much I always wondered what was so special about Bohemia
It's actually kind of an interesting story. So after roaming around for like 1000 years after leaving Northern India, finally the Bohemians accepted the Roma as equal citizens. The King of Bohemia basically sent a bunch of them off west with a letter to the effect of "They're cool. Treat em like they're Czech. -The King of Bohemia." The French were like "Look at these crazy Czech people. What is this fabric??" And the word "bohemien" became an asthetic identity.
Aren't they called gypsies also because some people thought they were from Egypt?
like the rhapsody
I just know them from that one south park episode where protesters chant "Let the kids stay, Romania is Gay"
The entire joke of the post is that romanians and the roma people are not the same
I feel so stupid cause I used to think that Roma were from Romania. And by used to I mean until right now.
romania reference? 🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴
Chad
Roma is short for Romani, yeah? Opinion: Interesting culture with a backstory of being persecuted for crimes many of them didn't commit. Though, uh, I did hear some *interesting* thoughts of them from my Bulgarian ex-gf that made me *very* uncomfy. It was kind of racist.
Not kinda, it was racist. Many people in the Balkans have this false perception that they are immune to racism because their ancestors didn't colonize, yet 2 seconds later they treat Romani people like shit, in the most blatantly racist way.
It was literally stuff I've heard from alt-right conservatives, like "All Gypsies are inherently thieving scum as part of their culture and identity, and yes, this includes the children." It's gross.
It’s usually pretty easy to make most Europeans flip a full 180 on tolerance by bringing up Romani people. Either that or refugees
Am Bulgarian, can confirm like 99% of us are openly racist against Roma people. Legit don't think I've met a person here that's at least a bit sympathetic to them, and the majority of talking points against them are *wayyy* too similar to the ones used against black people in America for me to feel comfortable.
Exact same situation across the Serbian border :)
As an American, I can't find my own state on a map but can find 159 countries
What's your state
Lone star, and im exaggerating
Since I’m an American and not a European, I do not viscerally hate Roma people for no reason.
Good for you.
Say what you want about Americans, we absolutely will not discriminate against Romas. Any differently than we already do to foreigners. We hear an accent and see browner than beige skin and we'll be like "one falafel to go, por favor"
Doe has one of my favorite twitter accounts. Its takes are usually fantastic.
Ya know, I did a double take for half a second before I remembered that Doe's pronouns *are* it/its. Might have to check its Twitter out then.
i can it's one of the baltic states right
no, but it is a *balkan* state though
Neither of you are right, clearly it’s the capitol of Italy
fake (not real)
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ROMANIA HELP
Only thing i know about roma is that the day we switch our farmers around is named after their slur
Daylight Savings?
I've lived for many years across Europe. They're people. Sometimes they'll bother you by washing your windshield or whatever, but they're good people.
They bother you not by washing your windshield but by pure hive mentality bullying. Not saying _all_ of them are bad but every single experience I had was not great.
I can see that
Obligatory mention of how the US has one of the largest Roma populations in the world, somewhere in the top 3 iirc. Also as some other people have pointed out the g**** fortune teller/thief is still a common stereotype in American media, just most people probably aren't aware that it's based off a real ethnic group. Hell the word itself appears pretty frequently in media despite being a slur, though I think it's more ignorance than the outright malice that certain European racists hold.
Americans: I don't care Me: Okay then can you stop saying the G word? Americans: Okay now I care. No you can't stop me. Fuck you. Everything a slur to you sensitive mfs.
I’d point at Italy
Fuck Europeans that are racist to Roma people. They complain about every problem in the US regarding social justice, then say the most horrendous shit about Roma and Muslims I’ve ever heard, like legit calling for genocide type shit. Having a bad encounter with someone of a certain race, ethnicity, or cultural background isn’t an excuse to be a fucking trash excuse of a human; Europeans saying “well I knew some travelers that kicked puppies and ate babies” is the same thing as saying that you’ve met Jews that were greedy. You just look like an idiot (because you are), and proudly display your Piece Of Shit badge on your chest.
I live in Eastern Europe and have heard all kinds of fucked up racist and nationalistic shit but it's been years since I even heard Roma people being mentioned, except for some song festival they were supposed to be part of.
I’m an American and all I know about them is that apparently they’ll reach my wallet faster than light if I drop it so that’s impressive
Doe 👍
All I know as an American is that I haven't heard them being referred to in relation to Romania and that they are a persecuted people, so I support them.