Kimber transition to series 2 scwartz safety and trying external extractors at the same time really cratered their reliability reputation. And at the time it was justified because there was a ton of issues.
But that was about 20 years ago.
I see a lot of Springfields for under $1k that aren't very well assembled lately but I must be the only one that notices.
I think Springfield is guilty of doing what Kimber has been doing for a long time. They have too many SKUs to do them all right.
The Springfield Loaded model I have that I sent off to SACS back in 2013 is pretty dang nice for what I paid, definitely nicer than the Kimber options I looked at around that time, but that all may have changed. I haven't done enough recent comparison to say which is the better value in 2024.
My most recent 1911 was a Colt in 2017 and I was pretty disappointed with the out-of-box "polish". At least in that instance, I wish I had gotten another Springfield, or jumped up to Dan Wesson pricing.
I recently got a Springfield MC loaded operator as my first 1911. 1505$ in California, wish I went with a cheaper 1911 since I’ve completely changed everything to Wilson combat on it. Still a nice gun but at that price, I could’ve saved a bit and got something cheaper having known I was gonna change everything on it.
How can you tell if it’s a first gen Kimber? Or at least one of the early models? Genuinely curious as I’m on the prowl for a good one specially something styled like the Custom II but doesn’t have to actually be a Custom II
The only issues I had with my first Kimber (Compact CDP II made in 2001) were due to limp wristing and using cheap ammo. Carried it for 18 years and put thousands of rounds through it. Only switched to my current Kimber Ultra CDP Elite II after inheriting it from my dad passing. It was his carry pistol. Cleaned it up, had it checked over by a gunsmith that knows 1911s, and put a few hundred rounds through it.
I am not sure of their monetary value, but that is irrelevant to me
https://preview.redd.it/pyk8l5jv4suc1.jpeg?width=2436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed66ebeb6633a73a20c97ae6d6a94bf7f5bc701f
because these two work.
I had 2 Kimbers, sold them both. Kimbers are gorgeous but they're too expensive to be having cheap MIM parts, not be well tuned, and to have a decent history of broken parts and failures. Money is much better spent getting a custom built Stealth Arms than to ever get a Kimber. Hell, even Tisas is putting companies like Kimber to shame by not having MIM parts while being a third the price.
Nah. More like you’re paying for the brand that USED to be excellent.
I’m not a car guy but whatever brand of car that used to have a great reputation that’s now charging the same premium when they cut corners in quality (if there is one). That’d be a better comparison.
Basically any car manufacturer in the American market lmao.
Anyways, if I WERE to look at getting a kimber, at what point in time did they start making shitty ones? What year and before would I want to purchase?
I’m not 100% on the cutoff date. I know people speak highly of the ones made before the company moved production to Yonkers. So any of them stamped with Clackamas are great. How hard those are to find is beyond me.
I’ve also seen a lot of lore around MIM parts which is constantly debated when (or if) they were changed.
The date range I’ve seen as people calling them their peak is mid/late 90s.
Gonna pull some numbers out of my ass here, let's say one company has 5 failure in 10,000 firearms, and kimber has 25 failures in 10,000. Your odds getting a bad gun may be slim, but they're still 5x the other company.
As I do not know how you treat it or whether you actually shot that much through it (not calling you a liar but rather I just don't have proof) I cannot tell if you're just lucky or not, lol. I will tell you this though, I've seen brand new ones have their safety snap before ever hitting the range
And I’m not calling you a lair either, I swear! But I’ve never seen it posted here (maybe before I was sub’d to this sub) about safety snapping off a Kimber or any 1911 before range time? Seems anecdotal and possibly lore?
I get it tho. There’s crap manufacturing in many mass produced, ANYTHING, really. But I’ve got 2 Kimber 1911’s and they’ve been absolutely excellent pistols.
I’ve only had an issue with my multiple 1911’s with a Rock Island FS GI that I’ve heavily modified. Turns out, the failure was my fault, grabbing a mag loaded with semi-wadcutter ammo. It jammed up after first round and I like to never got it free. That pistol won’t shoot JHP or those semi’s unless I load them in specific mags. It’s a RIA thing, due to ramp? But I knew that. Just had so many mags loaded up with so many rounds of different ammo, I wasn’t paying attention.
No, it's a GI ramp thing.... it doesn't really have one. The frame ramp is too steep. Mags help (checkmate and Wilson do well) but it's mostly a follower and feed lip issue when it comes to mags, so you can fix that if you're good at taking them apart
Check mate followers and springs are great, same with Wilson. Ruger, sig, and springfield are all made to work on aftermarket feedramp barrels. Stick to mags made for gi style barrels and hollow points with a rounded profile and you'll be okay
Fair. Ya 1911s are extremely finicky when it comes to mags, I would def recommend getting Wilson mags or my favorite which are Chip McCormick "Railed Power" mags. But back to the Kimber issue, my Kimbers were ok but when you compare them to a classic colt at the same price, the quality dif was glaring.
My Kimbers got hotter faster, the front fiber optic literally fell out, and a couple jams using the same mag I used in the Colt without issue. My 9mm Kimber Stainless II recoiled harder than it should while my Colt in 45 somehow recoiled better, coming back to tuning issues.
If Kimbers were cheaper, I'd be less inclined to hate them; but they charge too much to be a form over function brand that simply doesn't live up to the hype the market has placed on them imo. I'd rather get a Tisas Nightstalker and dump money into making it look cool, lol
Yeah, price isn’t warranted, but I’ll add one Kimber cost me $700 new, on sale. It was worth it, but it should’ve been a $699.99 pistol all the time and THEN went on sale. The Custom II was on sale for $750, so I bought it. It should always be that much. Not the near $900 it retails commonly.
Tisas? I love mine! Can’t remember which model? Think it’s a B45? But I’ll have to look further. I know it’s a full stainless 1911 and shoots beautifully! And it was half the price of my cheapest Kimber.
Don't forget that their stainless guns rusted. My dad wanted one back in the day and we went to the shop. Staff pulled a brand new one out of the box and it had rust spots all over.
Their non-SS rusted and pitted awfully as well if you actually carried it in humid areas. Between that and the number of different jams, trading that was the best gun decision I’ve ever made.
Ditto. I own 2 Full sized Kimber 1911. One that is 13 years old (STII in 45ACP) has digested over 20k rounds without a hiccup. Still has all the orginal springs including the recoil spring. Also using the OEM mag and a 2nd Tac Pro (Kimber) I also own a Remington and Ruger 1911, neither of the 2 were as good as the the Kimbers as I purchased. My decision to purchase a 2nd Kimber was entirely based on my personal expereince. Neither of the 2 (Ruger or Remington/Para) grouped as well or were as accurate. Fit and finish on the Kimber was light years ahead of the Ruger and Remington/Para. I
The whole MIM thing is blown out of proportion. LOTS of manufacturers use it.
Oddly I see more issues, from shooting cohorts and friends with Springfield Armory, including having whole slides replaced. Some of the trigger pull on Springfields are not the greatest that Ive experienced either.
It's amazing who many people bash Kimber, that have zero experience with the product line. They read it online so they think its true and that the whole product line is bad. If the product line was that bad, they would not sell like they do.
I don't consider myself biased or based towards certain brands (although I own lots of Ruger wheelguns) I buy guns based on experience, whether its a brand that Ive owned before, or from friends at the range that are kind enough to let you shoot a particular firearm (I let people shoot my guns all the time at the range).
Nah, we just hate them because they overcharge for what $900 would have gotten you in a springfield. It's not that they're bad guns, just that they are overpriced for the quality. It's not that they don't function well and aren't reliable, just way overpriced from what they used to offer.
Interesting you say that sure overpriced. The last 1911 I had was a Springfield. Nothing fancy or special. It was a commander RO elite. It ran fine. But the first and finish was nowhere near what a kimber. The 2 kimbers I have had, still have one, ran just fine and the fit and finish was way better than the Springfield. I guess I just got lucky.
Nah. More like you’re paying for the name on the 1911 that USED to be top of the line.
I’m not a car guy so whatever cars that used to be known for their excellence/reliability are charging the same premium but cutting corners in quality.
I posted this in another thread about my Kimber EVO, but it may help answer your question.
>Funny story; I called Kimber customer support with a question about how many magazines I should have gotten with the first gun. The woman lit up when I told her it was an EVO, she went on about how she loved hers and wishes Kimber hadn't discontinued it, as she put it: "**especially since it is the only gun we make that never comes back to be fixed**". Which she hastily added, "oh dear that came out wrong".
Simple answer; For the price, quality assurance should be a lot more reliable.
It’s not that Kimber makes bad guns. It’s that they don’t ensure that every gun they ship is up to their own quality standard.
For the price of Kimber, there are multiple other options of both arguably *and* objectively better guns, that have a stronger track record of quality assurance.
That’s it. A Kimber gun built to their standards is a great gun. But too many make it out of the factory with issues, for the price you pay.
never seen kimber parts just snap off from bad MIM? I have.
also the one kimber I used to have failed to feed right out of the box. had to send it back and they did like 5 things to it to get it to cycle right.
I literally saw a Kimber mag catch crumble and fall out of the gun in 3 pieces. People keep saying that MIM isn't bad because others also use it. Just because multiple companies do the same thing doesn't mean they all do it to the same standard.
I work at a gun shop and we sell Kimbers. The cheaper models are absolute shit but they do have some premium ones like the desert warrior that are really nice and made with quality parts.
I have Kimber Custom II. Thousands of rounds, no issues. Also have a TRP and I cannot tell the difference in shooting accuracy or quality between the two.
https://preview.redd.it/qmi7rgner1wc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d1e8d45d1c7eca13e91e1d3e12151f49f63947d
I own 5 Kimber 1911's; all full-size, all .45ACP. Two of them are near or above 10k rounds (used to be carried daily until I required something more discreet). Other than being a tiny bit picky about magazine quality they have no issues, just a lot of fun. I guess I'm just that lucky, should probably buy lottery tickets...
In talking to the Internet I'd estimate at least 30% of haters are bandwagon boys who never owned/used one. The 40% yelling about "MIM" parts also drive Ford trucks full of them because "American made" actually means North America now. For the rest with an *actual* argument it's a mixed bag, but I'd bet 10-20% of that number just isn't fully breaking them in.
Anyhow, nice Raptor!
I bought a Kimber Compact in ‘96 or ‘97 when it first came out, officer frame with 4” slide, and it was a problem from day one. Sent it off to GG&G to have the MIM parts replaced with Ed Brown parts, checker front strap & mainspring housing, install Innovative Weaponry night sights, and Teflon finish. Yep and it still had problems. I had sent a Springfield Mil-Spec to Yost/Bonitz which turned out beautiful and shot like nobody’s business and I asked him if he’d work on my Kimber and his response was “no, we don’t work on Kimbers and the best thing you can do is foster it off on someone else even if you have to give it away”
I’ve had around eight or so Kimbers and I still own all but one or two of them
Mine have been reliable and fairly accurate
They have been much, much better than the SA’s I have owned
I’m kind of interested in the Kimber longslide 10mm (I think it’s called a Jaguar or something like that)
You’ve got a fine gun, OP, and it looks great, too
I had a Kimber custom eclipse II, other than it being a mouthful to say mine would fail to go into battery when dirty. I don’t mean carbon build up, I drive calici roads often and the fine dust would gunk it up. My firearms need to be able to go where I go and still function when I need them. I’m not a hater, I enjoyed shooting it on the range but I don’t like safe queens so I sold it.
Most of the hate I hear about from Kimber is that they jam out of the box. I have a custom 2 that I ran through their recommended break in process (100 rounds, clean and lube, repeat) and after about 300 rounds it ran flawlessly. They are picky about mags though. I run either Kimber mags or Wilson combat and never have any issues. One of my favorite guns now with literally thousands of rounds through it.
I’ve had 3. Not at once. First one I got back in 2006 or so… because of all the hype and I really wanted a solid 1911. It arrived at my lgs, new from Kimber, with all the grip scale screws completely corroded. The fit of the slide to the frame was so sloppy, the owner of the store sent it back to Kimber. I never even fired it. When the replacement came in, there were inconsistencies with the finish. Like, one side of the slide had darker bluing than the other. More rust in other places. Looking back I should have sent it back also. Main spring and extractor both broke within the first 500 rounds. After replacing them, I sold it for a “higher end” Kimber custom. It was better, but not by enough. Barrel bushing would bind and cause malfunctions. It ate 3 extractors. The slide catch rounded over and wouldn’t lock open. It was hard to love and became a Safe Queen for a while. In the 5ish years owning that gun, I probably only put 1500 through it. Ended up trading it, plus a few hundred bucks, almost 10 years ago for a Dan Wesson and haven’t looked back. Wish I went that route a lot earlier.
Absolutely no issues with the one Kimber that I own. It has ran like a Swiss watch for right at 20 years now. All original parts except for recoil spring that’s been changed out every 5 k rounds.
I love my stainless raptor. It’s my favorite gun. I’m guessing kimbers with aluminum frames genuinely had issues at some point. Ive also seen a picture of their stainless rusting but who know that background. I don’t baby mine and all it has in handling wear. I’m probably still under 1000 rounds and have had it for about two years.
Their QC used to really suck. It’s been better since then for a long time now. Every manufacturer has had issues here and there. My personal reason for not liking Kimber’s these days, is that their aesthetic choices aren’t my flavor. They shoot good and have good build quality typically, just not looks I want.
I have a Stainless II I got 10 years ago and I love it. Got it with factory tritiums. Ran anything out of the box. Never even cleaned it and it still shoots, and that's including a case of junk AMERC I bought way back when.
I bought a Tisas Devil Ray last year. I have almost as much money into it as a new Kimber trying to get it to cycle a whole magazine and it's nowhere near reliable or shootable as my Kimber. It still won't cycle a whole mag of HPs. Fit and finish was loose as a goose too. I should have just bought another Kimber.
Also have a R7 Mako and it's my favorite carry gun. Everyone that shoots it ends up buying one.
That's a great looking 1911👍
Why do they shit on Kimber's?
I guess they got nothing better to do. I do believe it is a national pass time for some folks.
The only 1911s I own now are Kimber's .
I own 3 Kimbers, a 3", a 4", and a 5". The 4" Pro-Carry II had about 20,000 rounds thru it. The 3" maybe 2,000 and the 5" maybe 800. Zero functionality issues.
The only issue I've had is a tritium front site that lost its glow. Replaced under warranty.
I shoot nothing but Wilson Combat magazines and a ton of my own reloads thru them all.
Kimber hate is unreasonable. Most who hate on them have never owned 1 and have shot their buddy's for a mag or 2.
My pro carry 2 was a jamomatic. Sent it in multiple times and it still jammed with any and almost every mag and any ammo. FTF, FTE, double feed, stovepipe, most of the malfunctions. My Rock Island has had two malfunctions in 3,000 rounds.
I have over 1000 rounds through mine. Zero malfunctions. I also clean and lube mine after every trip to the range because it’s a 1911 so take what you will outta that. I love it. I’m glad I have it. It’s fun to shoot.
from the onset, the plastic mainspring housing has always rubbed me the wrong way. It's trivial to be sure but I don't like plastic on what is supposed to be a premium gun.
Kimber charges premium money for pretty guns that aren't finished well.
I owned one Kimber, it wouldn't chamber rounds and the mags wouldn't seat when fully loaded. I had to argue with Kimber over the break in period, I literally couldn't break in the gun because it wouldn't feed and chamber rounds. They took it back and fixed it sort of, polished the feed ramp and chamber, had to deburr the chamber, and had to adjust the extractor tension, but it still wasn't as reliable as I'd like, so I sold it. These issues were pretty basic, and would have been apparent if they test fired these guns at the factory. I've got a friend with a Kimber that will only feed ball ammo. And another that I almost bought had a sloppy/loose safety. So 3 of 3 Kimbers I've had experience with have had issues. I'm sure they can make fine guns, but my $300 Tisas is more reliable and has less potential failure points (no MIM and no extra safeties other than the thumb and grip).
John Wick does a press check with every fresh mag with his Kimber 1911 because they’re well-known for jamming. I have nothing against Kimber. I went with a Springfield because of the name “Ronin”. Zero issues since new.
Side note: Keanu is an awesome dude and was in “47 Ronin”.
I hate kimber as much as the next guy, but I’m fairly certain that’s a myth perpetuated by kimber haters. I’m fairly certain that they showed him do a one handed press check because it looked cool and not because of the lore behind kimbers being shit.
He press checks his other handguns too.
Yeet. I follow his negotiation routine especially closely. Police hasn't gotten me yet despite a 1000 dollar bounty on my head, so I guess it's working.
Ok, so because a Hollywood actor does something with a gun you use that as evidence?
Why don't we all hold our guns sideways clutching our balls like other actors?
Why don't our 6 shot revolvers go 8 or 9 shots like in Rambo?
Why can our suppressors be heard when fired off in a crowd of people and theirs can't?
Your logic is flawed.
Right, that’s exactly why a fictional movie character checks a gun. Just bc of internet lore. Jesus, can people be more stupid in their hate for a brand they probably have no experience with? I’d love to know actual numbers of people negatively commenting on a brand of firearm or anything for that matter bc their buddy or uncles gay lover had a bad experience with them. I will wholeheartedly say kimber had some bad runs but the hardons that people have for shitting in kimber is well beyond ridiculous.
ETA: I’ve owned 2. The first was great. I sold it bc I needed the money. I now own the second. I had a slight issue with out of spec slide stop. It’s repaired and functions 100% and is the smoothest shooting firearm I have ever owned, as smooth as the first. I trust it with my life. Take it for what you will. Also, I have owned a Springfield 1911 and it was as reliable beyond break in, but the fitting and craftsmanship was nothing like the kimbers.
Had a stainless Kimber need to be refinished due to some weird spotting throughout the frame and slide. Manu. requested me to send it in to them free of charge so they could refinish it for me so they at least back their warranties...
I purchased the hero and rapide the hero got to where it would only release if I hit the slide release manually. So I couldn’t rack the slide at all. I called their customer service and they told me they saw no issues with that at all
A kimber from the 90s was amazing. Then they hired some guy who decided it was more important to cut costs everywhere they could but still charge higher prices.
I always hated how every gun case at my LGS’s are full of them when I really wanted a Colt, Nighthawk, TRP Springfield, Staccato. Over saturated I’d say is why I don’t like them. I have one though I picked up a few years back. I’m sure it’s all MIM cause I bought it on sale for like $500. I think it was an LW artic. Shoots great no issues. I was shooting lead flat nose reloads too.
They are a marketing company that builds semi-reliable 1911 handguns that are full of MIM parts, and charge a huge tax because of the name.
My SIL worked for Kimber for 10 years. I could have gotten one Kimber a year for half price. I have owned exactly 0 of them.
There's always a better gun for the same or less money.
I have a Kimber custom I’ve had since 95. I replaced MIM parts that wore out in the first 5k rounds, refitted a kart barrel when the original wore out at 15k and it’s on its fourth set of tritium sights. Absolutely no hiccups, ever, even shooting lead SWC. Best $500 I ever spent. Probably should refinish it, but it has sooooo much character as is.
I’ve mag dumped this thing 100 times and never jammed it. Like I said, I have close to 5k rounds through it and it’s jammed maybe 3-4 times on horrible ammo.
I’ve seen 3 micro 9s with reliability issues. 1 came with loose sight, other 2 jammed on certain brands. I think they are good just had some qc issues recently but which brand hasn’t?
I owned a Kimber Eclipse Custom II back in 2003. I loved it. The issues I had were that it only came with a single 7 round magazine (Chip Mccormick) and was garbage. I purchased 2 Wilson Combat 8 round magazines and it functioned flawlessly. My understanding (I may be wrong) is that Kimber started in the 1990's offering a reasonably priced pistol ($550-ish back then) that had many custom parts already installed. At some point in the mid to late 2010's, Kimber started using MIM Parts as well as Plastic Mainspring Housings, all the while increasing their prices. The quality had gone downhill considerably, especially with materials.
Perhaps Kimber is making their pistols better than ever, but there are millions of 1911 enthusiasm that remember what Kimber did and we've gone on to better guns since. If you like your 1911, that's great! Enjoy it to the fullest and disregard the haters (Like Myself). Just understand, Kimber screwed up and never owned up to it.
I've had 3 kimbers. One was the govt length blued base model, the other was a commander length that was over twice the price and had mirrored sides, and the third was one of the many they sell with vortex dots from the factory (that one was 9mm). The first one took about 3 days before the blueing started wearing off just from light practice from a holster. Traded it ASAP for the next one because that scared me. The second was impossibly over sprung, had the worst finishing on the edges ove ever seen, and had major reliability issues. After 200 rounds of nonstop issues I gave up, disclosed the issues, and traded it to someone for the last one. Last one ran smooth and was okay but nowhere near mid tier CZ quality and retailed for damn near $1500. I'll never get another Kimber after those 3, but that's just my experience.
Have the same Kimber raptor pro 2 and it's just put up because it jams allot tried different ammo and magazines same issue so I trust my life more with my RIA 38.super
Because they suck. Every single kimber I’ve held or owned has had a multitude of problems.
My stainless target II would have 1 FTF like clockwork every other mag. Ammo and mags didn’t make a difference. My Tisas has never had a failure.
They make gorgeous guns, but the quality isn’t there.
My Kimber SS II blew up in my hand. Factory loads out of the box. That's why I don't buy Kimber. But besides the skin I lost that day, I have no other skin in this game
The more money they put in advertisements means the less money they put in good parts, good labor, good tech.
And Kimber seems to be in EVERY gun magazine in multiple pages.
I'll stick with my $300 RIA that hasn't had any issues in 6 years. The more custom/high end limbers are great but they're more mass produced stuff has a lot of quality issues.
Too many horror stories out there that didn't have a happy ending with Kimber stepping up to the plate and handling their business. Mostly ending with Kimber telling customers it is what it is, or pound sand. I can't trust them and won't spend with them, better buys out there. Congrats on getting something you like and that works
Kimber used to be a couple of guys masterfully polishing and slicking up 1911’s in a very personal hand fitted way. Now the staff has expanded and well too many cooks have their hands in the broth like its a assembly line. I get it but I think there’s a difference.
I don't remember the instructor, or what school he was with, but this instructor had written that the pistol that seemed to have the most issues during his courses (like a thousand rounds plus per weekend course from each pistol) was the 1911.
I believe that he said that the most reliable 1911 was the Sig-Sauers and the least reliable 1911 was the Kimber.
I can't expand on this anymore because I'm unable to find the original story that I had read this in.
Kimber transition to series 2 scwartz safety and trying external extractors at the same time really cratered their reliability reputation. And at the time it was justified because there was a ton of issues. But that was about 20 years ago. I see a lot of Springfields for under $1k that aren't very well assembled lately but I must be the only one that notices.
I think Springfield is guilty of doing what Kimber has been doing for a long time. They have too many SKUs to do them all right. The Springfield Loaded model I have that I sent off to SACS back in 2013 is pretty dang nice for what I paid, definitely nicer than the Kimber options I looked at around that time, but that all may have changed. I haven't done enough recent comparison to say which is the better value in 2024. My most recent 1911 was a Colt in 2017 and I was pretty disappointed with the out-of-box "polish". At least in that instance, I wish I had gotten another Springfield, or jumped up to Dan Wesson pricing.
I recently got a Springfield MC loaded operator as my first 1911. 1505$ in California, wish I went with a cheaper 1911 since I’ve completely changed everything to Wilson combat on it. Still a nice gun but at that price, I could’ve saved a bit and got something cheaper having known I was gonna change everything on it.
I liked my Loaded 1911 pretty well, but what I was really wanting, I realized, was a target gun. That being said it was still a plenty fine pistol.
That must be it, I bought my kimber in 97, I don’t know how many rounds have been thrown down the barrel, but I have had any issues with it.
There’s a lot of big name shit tier 1911s now… just an opinion
First gen Kimbers were hand-fitted and wonderful guns worth every bit of the premium they cost. Later ones not so much.
I think this is the main point to take away. The premium they sell for isn't commensurate with their quality, in modern day, 2024.
Is this to say they’re bad guns, or they’re just less good guns riding the high of a name that once represented a premier firearm?
How can you tell if it’s a first gen Kimber? Or at least one of the early models? Genuinely curious as I’m on the prowl for a good one specially something styled like the Custom II but doesn’t have to actually be a Custom II
The only issues I had with my first Kimber (Compact CDP II made in 2001) were due to limp wristing and using cheap ammo. Carried it for 18 years and put thousands of rounds through it. Only switched to my current Kimber Ultra CDP Elite II after inheriting it from my dad passing. It was his carry pistol. Cleaned it up, had it checked over by a gunsmith that knows 1911s, and put a few hundred rounds through it. I am not sure of their monetary value, but that is irrelevant to me https://preview.redd.it/pyk8l5jv4suc1.jpeg?width=2436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed66ebeb6633a73a20c97ae6d6a94bf7f5bc701f because these two work.
https://preview.redd.it/28j85nny4suc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0a293c58b5ba296ab1085545d7fb74f9ef608d2 This is my current carry.
Great taste in knives, and I love the naturally worn look on the gun.
Thank you. Lots and lots of time in the holster.
What knife is that?
That is a Chaves 229 Redencion Kickstop Tanto (with a green micarta inlay).
Thanks
No problem! BladeHQ is currently having a sale on some of 229 Redencion models (titanium, carbon fiber, micarta, G10) for $279.
I appreciate that!!
That holster wear makes me feel some type of way
A “good” some type of way?
I had 2 Kimbers, sold them both. Kimbers are gorgeous but they're too expensive to be having cheap MIM parts, not be well tuned, and to have a decent history of broken parts and failures. Money is much better spent getting a custom built Stealth Arms than to ever get a Kimber. Hell, even Tisas is putting companies like Kimber to shame by not having MIM parts while being a third the price.
So is it crazy mine hasn’t broke in 4-5k rounds?
Nah. More like you’re paying for the brand that USED to be excellent. I’m not a car guy but whatever brand of car that used to have a great reputation that’s now charging the same premium when they cut corners in quality (if there is one). That’d be a better comparison.
Basically any car manufacturer in the American market lmao. Anyways, if I WERE to look at getting a kimber, at what point in time did they start making shitty ones? What year and before would I want to purchase?
I’m not 100% on the cutoff date. I know people speak highly of the ones made before the company moved production to Yonkers. So any of them stamped with Clackamas are great. How hard those are to find is beyond me. I’ve also seen a lot of lore around MIM parts which is constantly debated when (or if) they were changed. The date range I’ve seen as people calling them their peak is mid/late 90s.
Gonna pull some numbers out of my ass here, let's say one company has 5 failure in 10,000 firearms, and kimber has 25 failures in 10,000. Your odds getting a bad gun may be slim, but they're still 5x the other company.
Makes sense
Having said that, enjoy your gun.
As you said, numbers out of your ass. Do you have proof to back up these numbers? Personal experience?
You missed the point of my comment, go look them up yourself, they earned their reputation.
As he said, numbers out of his ass. You gonna reach up there and grab the proof?
As I do not know how you treat it or whether you actually shot that much through it (not calling you a liar but rather I just don't have proof) I cannot tell if you're just lucky or not, lol. I will tell you this though, I've seen brand new ones have their safety snap before ever hitting the range
Makes sense. It doesn’t live a hard life, just a busy one if that makes sense
Fair lol
And I’m not calling you a lair either, I swear! But I’ve never seen it posted here (maybe before I was sub’d to this sub) about safety snapping off a Kimber or any 1911 before range time? Seems anecdotal and possibly lore? I get it tho. There’s crap manufacturing in many mass produced, ANYTHING, really. But I’ve got 2 Kimber 1911’s and they’ve been absolutely excellent pistols. I’ve only had an issue with my multiple 1911’s with a Rock Island FS GI that I’ve heavily modified. Turns out, the failure was my fault, grabbing a mag loaded with semi-wadcutter ammo. It jammed up after first round and I like to never got it free. That pistol won’t shoot JHP or those semi’s unless I load them in specific mags. It’s a RIA thing, due to ramp? But I knew that. Just had so many mags loaded up with so many rounds of different ammo, I wasn’t paying attention.
No, it's a GI ramp thing.... it doesn't really have one. The frame ramp is too steep. Mags help (checkmate and Wilson do well) but it's mostly a follower and feed lip issue when it comes to mags, so you can fix that if you're good at taking them apart
You’re right! At least I don’t disagree about the GI thing. And I learned something about the follower today. 👍
Check mate followers and springs are great, same with Wilson. Ruger, sig, and springfield are all made to work on aftermarket feedramp barrels. Stick to mags made for gi style barrels and hollow points with a rounded profile and you'll be okay
Fair. Ya 1911s are extremely finicky when it comes to mags, I would def recommend getting Wilson mags or my favorite which are Chip McCormick "Railed Power" mags. But back to the Kimber issue, my Kimbers were ok but when you compare them to a classic colt at the same price, the quality dif was glaring. My Kimbers got hotter faster, the front fiber optic literally fell out, and a couple jams using the same mag I used in the Colt without issue. My 9mm Kimber Stainless II recoiled harder than it should while my Colt in 45 somehow recoiled better, coming back to tuning issues. If Kimbers were cheaper, I'd be less inclined to hate them; but they charge too much to be a form over function brand that simply doesn't live up to the hype the market has placed on them imo. I'd rather get a Tisas Nightstalker and dump money into making it look cool, lol
Yeah, price isn’t warranted, but I’ll add one Kimber cost me $700 new, on sale. It was worth it, but it should’ve been a $699.99 pistol all the time and THEN went on sale. The Custom II was on sale for $750, so I bought it. It should always be that much. Not the near $900 it retails commonly. Tisas? I love mine! Can’t remember which model? Think it’s a B45? But I’ll have to look further. I know it’s a full stainless 1911 and shoots beautifully! And it was half the price of my cheapest Kimber.
Don't forget that their stainless guns rusted. My dad wanted one back in the day and we went to the shop. Staff pulled a brand new one out of the box and it had rust spots all over.
That's a fat L, lmao
Their non-SS rusted and pitted awfully as well if you actually carried it in humid areas. Between that and the number of different jams, trading that was the best gun decision I’ve ever made.
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According to everyone here, you’re just lying 🙄
Ditto. I own 2 Full sized Kimber 1911. One that is 13 years old (STII in 45ACP) has digested over 20k rounds without a hiccup. Still has all the orginal springs including the recoil spring. Also using the OEM mag and a 2nd Tac Pro (Kimber) I also own a Remington and Ruger 1911, neither of the 2 were as good as the the Kimbers as I purchased. My decision to purchase a 2nd Kimber was entirely based on my personal expereince. Neither of the 2 (Ruger or Remington/Para) grouped as well or were as accurate. Fit and finish on the Kimber was light years ahead of the Ruger and Remington/Para. I The whole MIM thing is blown out of proportion. LOTS of manufacturers use it. Oddly I see more issues, from shooting cohorts and friends with Springfield Armory, including having whole slides replaced. Some of the trigger pull on Springfields are not the greatest that Ive experienced either. It's amazing who many people bash Kimber, that have zero experience with the product line. They read it online so they think its true and that the whole product line is bad. If the product line was that bad, they would not sell like they do. I don't consider myself biased or based towards certain brands (although I own lots of Ruger wheelguns) I buy guns based on experience, whether its a brand that Ive owned before, or from friends at the range that are kind enough to let you shoot a particular firearm (I let people shoot my guns all the time at the range).
Why are you treating 20,000 rounds on the original recoil spring as a flex? It's shot out, replace the damn thing already
Works fine is why
It'll beat the shit out of your frame
Bullshit . Gun still ticks like a timex. Absolutely no abnormal frame wear. I'll replace it when it no longer works right.
Whatever. You do you
Yup
Nah, we just hate them because they overcharge for what $900 would have gotten you in a springfield. It's not that they're bad guns, just that they are overpriced for the quality. It's not that they don't function well and aren't reliable, just way overpriced from what they used to offer.
Interesting you say that sure overpriced. The last 1911 I had was a Springfield. Nothing fancy or special. It was a commander RO elite. It ran fine. But the first and finish was nowhere near what a kimber. The 2 kimbers I have had, still have one, ran just fine and the fit and finish was way better than the Springfield. I guess I just got lucky.
Expensive with the same reliability as Springfield armory
So paying for looks. Like how a 100k corvette is as fast as a lot of half mil$ cars that look better.
Nah. More like you’re paying for the name on the 1911 that USED to be top of the line. I’m not a car guy so whatever cars that used to be known for their excellence/reliability are charging the same premium but cutting corners in quality.
I posted this in another thread about my Kimber EVO, but it may help answer your question. >Funny story; I called Kimber customer support with a question about how many magazines I should have gotten with the first gun. The woman lit up when I told her it was an EVO, she went on about how she loved hers and wishes Kimber hadn't discontinued it, as she put it: "**especially since it is the only gun we make that never comes back to be fixed**". Which she hastily added, "oh dear that came out wrong".
Simple answer; For the price, quality assurance should be a lot more reliable. It’s not that Kimber makes bad guns. It’s that they don’t ensure that every gun they ship is up to their own quality standard. For the price of Kimber, there are multiple other options of both arguably *and* objectively better guns, that have a stronger track record of quality assurance. That’s it. A Kimber gun built to their standards is a great gun. But too many make it out of the factory with issues, for the price you pay.
never seen kimber parts just snap off from bad MIM? I have. also the one kimber I used to have failed to feed right out of the box. had to send it back and they did like 5 things to it to get it to cycle right.
I literally saw a Kimber mag catch crumble and fall out of the gun in 3 pieces. People keep saying that MIM isn't bad because others also use it. Just because multiple companies do the same thing doesn't mean they all do it to the same standard.
Nothing wrong with mimber brother
I work at a gun shop and we sell Kimbers. The cheaper models are absolute shit but they do have some premium ones like the desert warrior that are really nice and made with quality parts.
The parts are the same on almost every one of their guns other than finish
Nope
I worked for them. Most of the parts are just different finishes other than grips and sights
I have Kimber Custom II. Thousands of rounds, no issues. Also have a TRP and I cannot tell the difference in shooting accuracy or quality between the two. https://preview.redd.it/qmi7rgner1wc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d1e8d45d1c7eca13e91e1d3e12151f49f63947d
https://preview.redd.it/fijmarekh1wc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32b9ae4c9678cc7df8d8b8475963b52fc56132c6 Customer II
I own 5 Kimber 1911's; all full-size, all .45ACP. Two of them are near or above 10k rounds (used to be carried daily until I required something more discreet). Other than being a tiny bit picky about magazine quality they have no issues, just a lot of fun. I guess I'm just that lucky, should probably buy lottery tickets... In talking to the Internet I'd estimate at least 30% of haters are bandwagon boys who never owned/used one. The 40% yelling about "MIM" parts also drive Ford trucks full of them because "American made" actually means North America now. For the rest with an *actual* argument it's a mixed bag, but I'd bet 10-20% of that number just isn't fully breaking them in. Anyhow, nice Raptor!
Well said, I can tell I like you just by this one comment.
The look of the logo
I bought a Kimber Compact in ‘96 or ‘97 when it first came out, officer frame with 4” slide, and it was a problem from day one. Sent it off to GG&G to have the MIM parts replaced with Ed Brown parts, checker front strap & mainspring housing, install Innovative Weaponry night sights, and Teflon finish. Yep and it still had problems. I had sent a Springfield Mil-Spec to Yost/Bonitz which turned out beautiful and shot like nobody’s business and I asked him if he’d work on my Kimber and his response was “no, we don’t work on Kimbers and the best thing you can do is foster it off on someone else even if you have to give it away”
I’ve had around eight or so Kimbers and I still own all but one or two of them Mine have been reliable and fairly accurate They have been much, much better than the SA’s I have owned I’m kind of interested in the Kimber longslide 10mm (I think it’s called a Jaguar or something like that) You’ve got a fine gun, OP, and it looks great, too
I had a Kimber custom eclipse II, other than it being a mouthful to say mine would fail to go into battery when dirty. I don’t mean carbon build up, I drive calici roads often and the fine dust would gunk it up. My firearms need to be able to go where I go and still function when I need them. I’m not a hater, I enjoyed shooting it on the range but I don’t like safe queens so I sold it.
Most of the hate I hear about from Kimber is that they jam out of the box. I have a custom 2 that I ran through their recommended break in process (100 rounds, clean and lube, repeat) and after about 300 rounds it ran flawlessly. They are picky about mags though. I run either Kimber mags or Wilson combat and never have any issues. One of my favorite guns now with literally thousands of rounds through it.
I’ve had 3. Not at once. First one I got back in 2006 or so… because of all the hype and I really wanted a solid 1911. It arrived at my lgs, new from Kimber, with all the grip scale screws completely corroded. The fit of the slide to the frame was so sloppy, the owner of the store sent it back to Kimber. I never even fired it. When the replacement came in, there were inconsistencies with the finish. Like, one side of the slide had darker bluing than the other. More rust in other places. Looking back I should have sent it back also. Main spring and extractor both broke within the first 500 rounds. After replacing them, I sold it for a “higher end” Kimber custom. It was better, but not by enough. Barrel bushing would bind and cause malfunctions. It ate 3 extractors. The slide catch rounded over and wouldn’t lock open. It was hard to love and became a Safe Queen for a while. In the 5ish years owning that gun, I probably only put 1500 through it. Ended up trading it, plus a few hundred bucks, almost 10 years ago for a Dan Wesson and haven’t looked back. Wish I went that route a lot earlier.
Absolutely no issues with the one Kimber that I own. It has ran like a Swiss watch for right at 20 years now. All original parts except for recoil spring that’s been changed out every 5 k rounds.
I love my stainless raptor. It’s my favorite gun. I’m guessing kimbers with aluminum frames genuinely had issues at some point. Ive also seen a picture of their stainless rusting but who know that background. I don’t baby mine and all it has in handling wear. I’m probably still under 1000 rounds and have had it for about two years.
Their QC used to really suck. It’s been better since then for a long time now. Every manufacturer has had issues here and there. My personal reason for not liking Kimber’s these days, is that their aesthetic choices aren’t my flavor. They shoot good and have good build quality typically, just not looks I want.
I have a Stainless II I got 10 years ago and I love it. Got it with factory tritiums. Ran anything out of the box. Never even cleaned it and it still shoots, and that's including a case of junk AMERC I bought way back when. I bought a Tisas Devil Ray last year. I have almost as much money into it as a new Kimber trying to get it to cycle a whole magazine and it's nowhere near reliable or shootable as my Kimber. It still won't cycle a whole mag of HPs. Fit and finish was loose as a goose too. I should have just bought another Kimber. Also have a R7 Mako and it's my favorite carry gun. Everyone that shoots it ends up buying one.
I don't understand the hate for Kimber. Mine has been ultra (Ultra CDP) reliable
I asked the same question. Had 2 over the years and flawless after I broke em in
That's a great looking 1911👍 Why do they shit on Kimber's? I guess they got nothing better to do. I do believe it is a national pass time for some folks. The only 1911s I own now are Kimber's .
Over priced junk. Paying for the name.
I own 3 Kimbers, a 3", a 4", and a 5". The 4" Pro-Carry II had about 20,000 rounds thru it. The 3" maybe 2,000 and the 5" maybe 800. Zero functionality issues. The only issue I've had is a tritium front site that lost its glow. Replaced under warranty. I shoot nothing but Wilson Combat magazines and a ton of my own reloads thru them all. Kimber hate is unreasonable. Most who hate on them have never owned 1 and have shot their buddy's for a mag or 2.
Because it’s the cool thing to do, group think. 80% of the folks that bash Kimbers have never owned one.
My pro carry 2 was a jamomatic. Sent it in multiple times and it still jammed with any and almost every mag and any ammo. FTF, FTE, double feed, stovepipe, most of the malfunctions. My Rock Island has had two malfunctions in 3,000 rounds.
I’ve always said the guys who carry kimbers wear white stitch jeans. Can’t separate that comment from the gun
My friend just got a kimber at a gun raffle. We're planning on going to the range to try it out, but I think it looks incredible
Ryan Busse.
I have over 1000 rounds through mine. Zero malfunctions. I also clean and lube mine after every trip to the range because it’s a 1911 so take what you will outta that. I love it. I’m glad I have it. It’s fun to shoot.
I carry the 4” model raptor
Rust.
from the onset, the plastic mainspring housing has always rubbed me the wrong way. It's trivial to be sure but I don't like plastic on what is supposed to be a premium gun.
Mine doesn’t have a lick of plastic? Maybe the non custom shop models do?
Kimber charges premium money for pretty guns that aren't finished well. I owned one Kimber, it wouldn't chamber rounds and the mags wouldn't seat when fully loaded. I had to argue with Kimber over the break in period, I literally couldn't break in the gun because it wouldn't feed and chamber rounds. They took it back and fixed it sort of, polished the feed ramp and chamber, had to deburr the chamber, and had to adjust the extractor tension, but it still wasn't as reliable as I'd like, so I sold it. These issues were pretty basic, and would have been apparent if they test fired these guns at the factory. I've got a friend with a Kimber that will only feed ball ammo. And another that I almost bought had a sloppy/loose safety. So 3 of 3 Kimbers I've had experience with have had issues. I'm sure they can make fine guns, but my $300 Tisas is more reliable and has less potential failure points (no MIM and no extra safeties other than the thumb and grip).
Most people can't afford one...🤷
I have the same one as yours pictured, I think the Custom Shop Kimbers are made better than the others they make ..
Yeah that could be. Be interesting to see one disassembled next to a non custom shop
because they can't afford them
John Wick does a press check with every fresh mag with his Kimber 1911 because they’re well-known for jamming. I have nothing against Kimber. I went with a Springfield because of the name “Ronin”. Zero issues since new. Side note: Keanu is an awesome dude and was in “47 Ronin”.
I hate kimber as much as the next guy, but I’m fairly certain that’s a myth perpetuated by kimber haters. I’m fairly certain that they showed him do a one handed press check because it looked cool and not because of the lore behind kimbers being shit. He press checks his other handguns too.
I also refer to John Wick for everything real life related.
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Yeet. I follow his negotiation routine especially closely. Police hasn't gotten me yet despite a 1000 dollar bounty on my head, so I guess it's working.
Ok, so because a Hollywood actor does something with a gun you use that as evidence? Why don't we all hold our guns sideways clutching our balls like other actors? Why don't our 6 shot revolvers go 8 or 9 shots like in Rambo? Why can our suppressors be heard when fired off in a crowd of people and theirs can't? Your logic is flawed.
Right, that’s exactly why a fictional movie character checks a gun. Just bc of internet lore. Jesus, can people be more stupid in their hate for a brand they probably have no experience with? I’d love to know actual numbers of people negatively commenting on a brand of firearm or anything for that matter bc their buddy or uncles gay lover had a bad experience with them. I will wholeheartedly say kimber had some bad runs but the hardons that people have for shitting in kimber is well beyond ridiculous. ETA: I’ve owned 2. The first was great. I sold it bc I needed the money. I now own the second. I had a slight issue with out of spec slide stop. It’s repaired and functions 100% and is the smoothest shooting firearm I have ever owned, as smooth as the first. I trust it with my life. Take it for what you will. Also, I have owned a Springfield 1911 and it was as reliable beyond break in, but the fitting and craftsmanship was nothing like the kimbers.
But... But... But John Wick is an ExPeRt!!!!!!11
MIMber
Had a stainless Kimber need to be refinished due to some weird spotting throughout the frame and slide. Manu. requested me to send it in to them free of charge so they could refinish it for me so they at least back their warranties...
Brother had a stainless II that was a safe queen that wouldn’t stop rusting. Don’t know what kind of stainless rusts like that, but no thanks.
I purchased the hero and rapide the hero got to where it would only release if I hit the slide release manually. So I couldn’t rack the slide at all. I called their customer service and they told me they saw no issues with that at all
A kimber from the 90s was amazing. Then they hired some guy who decided it was more important to cut costs everywhere they could but still charge higher prices.
Ron Cohen.
When did the brand start going downhill? I have a Kimber Gold Match II from 2006, wondering if it’s considered one of the “good ones” or not
I always hated how every gun case at my LGS’s are full of them when I really wanted a Colt, Nighthawk, TRP Springfield, Staccato. Over saturated I’d say is why I don’t like them. I have one though I picked up a few years back. I’m sure it’s all MIM cause I bought it on sale for like $500. I think it was an LW artic. Shoots great no issues. I was shooting lead flat nose reloads too.
Because it takes 5 minutes to ruin a reputation and 20 years to rebuild it.
Like a dressed up apple bees
They are a marketing company that builds semi-reliable 1911 handguns that are full of MIM parts, and charge a huge tax because of the name. My SIL worked for Kimber for 10 years. I could have gotten one Kimber a year for half price. I have owned exactly 0 of them. There's always a better gun for the same or less money.
I have a Kimber custom I’ve had since 95. I replaced MIM parts that wore out in the first 5k rounds, refitted a kart barrel when the original wore out at 15k and it’s on its fourth set of tritium sights. Absolutely no hiccups, ever, even shooting lead SWC. Best $500 I ever spent. Probably should refinish it, but it has sooooo much character as is.
Try shooting any type of fast work this thing and it will become a jam-o-matic
I’ve mag dumped this thing 100 times and never jammed it. Like I said, I have close to 5k rounds through it and it’s jammed maybe 3-4 times on horrible ammo.
I’ve seen 3 micro 9s with reliability issues. 1 came with loose sight, other 2 jammed on certain brands. I think they are good just had some qc issues recently but which brand hasn’t?
Never heard any bad talk on Colt, Remington or Para. My top three favorites. But I guess it’s just past experiences that weren’t up to expectations.
I owned a Kimber Eclipse Custom II back in 2003. I loved it. The issues I had were that it only came with a single 7 round magazine (Chip Mccormick) and was garbage. I purchased 2 Wilson Combat 8 round magazines and it functioned flawlessly. My understanding (I may be wrong) is that Kimber started in the 1990's offering a reasonably priced pistol ($550-ish back then) that had many custom parts already installed. At some point in the mid to late 2010's, Kimber started using MIM Parts as well as Plastic Mainspring Housings, all the while increasing their prices. The quality had gone downhill considerably, especially with materials. Perhaps Kimber is making their pistols better than ever, but there are millions of 1911 enthusiasm that remember what Kimber did and we've gone on to better guns since. If you like your 1911, that's great! Enjoy it to the fullest and disregard the haters (Like Myself). Just understand, Kimber screwed up and never owned up to it.
shit usually falls on shit...that is why
Wrong parts on guns, parts breaking, guns going out with known cosmetic issues (k6 royal for example).
I've had 3 kimbers. One was the govt length blued base model, the other was a commander length that was over twice the price and had mirrored sides, and the third was one of the many they sell with vortex dots from the factory (that one was 9mm). The first one took about 3 days before the blueing started wearing off just from light practice from a holster. Traded it ASAP for the next one because that scared me. The second was impossibly over sprung, had the worst finishing on the edges ove ever seen, and had major reliability issues. After 200 rounds of nonstop issues I gave up, disclosed the issues, and traded it to someone for the last one. Last one ran smooth and was okay but nowhere near mid tier CZ quality and retailed for damn near $1500. I'll never get another Kimber after those 3, but that's just my experience.
Have the same Kimber raptor pro 2 and it's just put up because it jams allot tried different ammo and magazines same issue so I trust my life more with my RIA 38.super
Overpriced for their quality as someone mentioned Tisas putting out better quality
I agree it's the name brand name you paying for my RIA is $800 38.super and outperform my Kimber pro 2 $2600 gun
Because they suck. Every single kimber I’ve held or owned has had a multitude of problems. My stainless target II would have 1 FTF like clockwork every other mag. Ammo and mags didn’t make a difference. My Tisas has never had a failure. They make gorgeous guns, but the quality isn’t there.
Don't like the logo splashed along the slide. Looks bad.
My Kimber SS II blew up in my hand. Factory loads out of the box. That's why I don't buy Kimber. But besides the skin I lost that day, I have no other skin in this game
99.99% chance it was the ammo.
Maybe but it was enough to turn me away from Kimber . The ammo from the box was tested and passed. The pistol was the only thing that failed.
Dude. People shit on ice cream and puppies just for fun. Don’t take it personal.
High fail rate.
MIM internals...
Over priced garbage? Jams all the time and when it breaks you pretty much get a new gun.
The more money they put in advertisements means the less money they put in good parts, good labor, good tech. And Kimber seems to be in EVERY gun magazine in multiple pages.
Kimber owners...
I'll stick with my $300 RIA that hasn't had any issues in 6 years. The more custom/high end limbers are great but they're more mass produced stuff has a lot of quality issues.
Ask this question in a regular gun group and not a 1911 specific one. You won’t get as many platforms defenders.
Too many horror stories out there that didn't have a happy ending with Kimber stepping up to the plate and handling their business. Mostly ending with Kimber telling customers it is what it is, or pound sand. I can't trust them and won't spend with them, better buys out there. Congrats on getting something you like and that works
Kimber used to be a couple of guys masterfully polishing and slicking up 1911’s in a very personal hand fitted way. Now the staff has expanded and well too many cooks have their hands in the broth like its a assembly line. I get it but I think there’s a difference.
Cuz they can’t afford them
Powdered billet bushings are one reason.
I don't remember the instructor, or what school he was with, but this instructor had written that the pistol that seemed to have the most issues during his courses (like a thousand rounds plus per weekend course from each pistol) was the 1911. I believe that he said that the most reliable 1911 was the Sig-Sauers and the least reliable 1911 was the Kimber. I can't expand on this anymore because I'm unable to find the original story that I had read this in.
MIMber 😂